The irony of Gerry praising our little Brazilian, when all were slating him on an occasion when he played well. In my view he actually carried Masch. It would be a great gesture for Lucas if there was a banner or a chant for him.

Sorry i can’t agree as Lucas didn’t do it for me against Bolton although i think the problem was that Javier and Lucas are too similar (ie games based on short range passing) and that them two can not play together, you ahve to ahve either Alosno or Stevie with one of them and the one for me is Javier. This may be only me 2nd post but can i just say that i don’t like supporters who bash our players hwoever i’ve not felt like this about a player since Smicer who also used to infuriate me (but i still supoorted in when he was in the team and his PK in Istabul was a great wasy to bow out)

Good blog, Gerry. I think Lucas deserves our support and he should be given more chances (and not just for the last 15 mins etc). He is still only 21 and his best years are ahead of him.

Marseille drew 2-2 at the weekend and lost the match before that, so are not looking too good at the moment. I think we will want it more than them and our European pedigree will come to the fore. I predict a comfortable 2-0 win to the boys in red … a Torres double.

The match is not being shown in NZ until midnight (we have chel$ski and Bordeaux on live … the bastards). The IT guys at work have blocked most of live audio/video feeds, so I will have to rely on BBC or ESPN for live text commentary.

I don’t want us going to PSV needing a win as I think PSV (won 4-0 at the weekend) could easily roll Atletico (drew 1-1) over. A win to PSV or OM would put them each on 6 points (we and AM are on 8).

We’re going into a very busy Christmas period, and I expect more players to be rested every now and then and maybe some points dropped. Please be patient guys. I’ll be very happy if we we are 2nd on goal difference by Jan 2009. If that happens, we’ve got a good chance for No. 19

Very aptly put Gerry. I hope Lucas starts with Alonso and there’s a banner or a shout for Lucas in that game. I don’t think we’ll need Mascherano for this game. If Lucas is left in the free role in the midfield alongside Alonso, and over a substantial period of time, i have a feeling he’ll come good. We’ll wait and watch.

Am expecting a good show by Keane and Torres. It will be a 3-0 victory with Torres, Keane and Kuyt as our scorers.

About lucas, u r correct..to a certain extent..i mean u ought 2 giv him a chance n al tht..but when rafa saw he wasnt performin tht well..xabi shudve been brought in a half time or latest 60 min..tht 2 instead of masch being subbed..it ought 2 hav been lucas..

Also, i thnk u tend 2 b a lil 2 optimistic regardin our scorline..
wid all due respect ive noticed u goin completely wrong in tht dept..2 say Liv 3 – Marseille 0..its a bit thck wat..i’d love d tht 2 happn but cmon..
a 2-1 or max 2-0 is a realisitc result..comment..
cheers

My moneys on Kuyt to score tonight he always comes up trumps at anfield on the european nights.

My team for tonight:

Reina.
Arbie,carra,dagger,aurelio.
mash,alonso
Kuyt,gerrard,babel
Torres.

I think riera is due a rest and babel could do with a start to give him some confidence.If i was rafa(which i certainly am not)i`d just tell the lad to go out and play,express himself,take players on and get crosses into the box and shoot on site.He has got a fair bit of stick recently but i do see a special player in this boy.He just needs to get more consistant and with a bit of fine tuning he could be a real threat.He`s the kind of player who needs a run in the side to regain his form but thats easier said.

I still think that the gerrard/torres combo is the best attack we have at the minute and if we can get a decent lead i`d then like to see Keane on for whoever Rafa deems need of a rest!

Onwards and upwards lets get thepoor performance against fulham out of our system.4-0 to the red men.

P.S.

Super stuff Gerry,good blog and a good point on the state of our beloved game today.

Well said Gerry. I had my go about the support in the last blog, and like you said, there’s no point going on about it because those who can’t even understand the basic theory of YNWA will never get it.

As for Lucas…
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=EYqKzNlxclw

I know youtube could make Madonna look like Maradonna. But that’s a little of what the lad is capable of.

And, as for what he’s capable of, I once made a jokie post in here slagging him off….
He can’t tackle
He can’t dribble
He can’t head a ball
Other than that he’s a good player.

Well, it went on longer than that, but you get my drift. And it was honestly done in jest. But in seriousness all my other posts on the lad have always said I doubt he can make it but I hope he does.
Well, now I am absolutely praying he succeeds and he leaves some people gagging on their own boos, moans and groans.

This modern day thing of needing a scapegoat is beyond me, and I find it rather sickening –
Thousands picking on a 21 kid year old from the stands. Fucking brave that.

And the stupidity of it is absolutely baffling to me… it gives hopes to opponents. It puts extra pressure on our own.

And as for the stupidity of today’s average Soccer AM, SkyTV type football fan…. Lucas was actually one of the better players out there on Saturday. He passed, he moved, he turned around, and…

FFS. It was the other statues out there that seemed to forget the bascic premise…
the move bit comes after the pass bit.

The amount of times Lucas was left holding the ball with no outlet, I thought I was watching Groundhog day over and over and over again. But no matter how many times you show Lemmings and Sheep something, they can’t see for themselves. So, it’s far far easier for them to just scapegoat someone than to try and get a basic understanding of the simplest team game there is.

I honestly would have ended up in a fight if I’d been around that on Saturday.

But onwards and upwards. We are coming into a very demanding part of the season. Games will be coming thick and fast. Fresh legs will be neeeded at times. And yes the majority, if not the whole, of the squad will probably have to be used at some point. (I hope any games Lucas gets are away from Anfield. How shit is it, having to hope for that.)

But all of the games are quite winnable, and could see us going into the new year in a very strong position… Top of the league, or there about, and in the last 16 of the Champion’s league.

I would have bitten my own hand off nevermind anyone elses if I’d been offered that at the beginning of the season. Well, no I’d have bit someone else. But maybe some of us need to think back to before the season started, and look at our hopes and expectations back then.

YNWA

Timmy I forgot to say, have a great time at the game. If you’re going to have a pint near the ground before the match, go to the King Harry. It’s sort of more hidden away than the usual gaffes… The Sandon, the Albert, etc. You can get served easier in there, and there’s always a good craic with the locals. Great memoribillia in there an all. And if they’re not to rushed, they will get your picture with a great European Cup replica. Oh no, fuck that.

Gerry said he’ll post some on here. And seeing our reputation as the most knowledgable fans has taken a kicking, I’d like to hang on to the Best Looking one!

Have a good time, lad. And don’t fucking boo, whatever you do. Some big fat fella might land on your back!

Ha Ha no chance of getting any good looking photos of me Fatty

I`ll pop in there for one if i can find it not a bother.

I wouldn`t know how to boo i`m not an Ingerland fan!

All things being equal we should win tonight and confirm qualification to the last 16. Someone mentioned the busy xmas period where Rafa will surely rest players and rotate a bit. Key part of the season that’ll be. Hoefully the fringe players can play in PSV and get some confidence.

Speaking of fringe players – I just read this about Babel….

RYAN BABEL believes he has become a “victim” of Rafael Benitez’s decision to resist squad rotation this season – but insists he isn’t seeking to quit Liverpool.

Babel has been limited to just four starts as the Anfield outfit have enjoyed their best-ever start to a Premier League campaign.

With Benitez making less changes to his starting line-up, the Holland international is one of several players to have seen less action than at this stage last year.

Having played the full 90 minutes of Liverpool’s 2-1 win in Marseille in September, Babel will be hopeful of a rare starting role for the Champions League return fixture against the French side at Anfield this evening.

And the 21-year-old has admitted he is desperate for more first team opportunities and reckons he has “shown enough patience” with his continued fringe role.

“The rotation system is a thing of the past and I’m one of the victims of that,” said Babel. “The team is winning a lot, so you don’t alter things just like that.

“Each season has about 60 games. ‘I must work hard and wait for my chance,’ is what you hear, but I’ve shown enough patience. I want to play.

“You get better and develop when you play. On the bench, nothing happens. Of course I’m disappointed when I don’t play.

“But I don’t want to leave. My contract runs until 2012. I don’t give up that easily.”

You got that right LB – December is going to be crucial, and a real test of our depth. I’m confident we’ve got the wings, central defense, and defensive midfield positions covered there… and if Keane can find some form we should be OK up front too. I’m not so sure about our depth at full-back though – as I’ve said before, I’m not sure what we’ll do when Arbeloa needs a rest.

LB perhaps the idea is that Babel will be our “fresh legs” in the 2nd half of the season. I hope so, because I agree with what he says about needing matches. We can see his attributes – speed, power, skill – but he needs matches if he’s ever going to fit in.

Gerry mate this part of your blogg is a sensational comment, well done and well said:

“In every Premiership ground there are an increasing number of these replica fans in their replica kits, who seem to think the name on the back of their jersey is more important than the badge on the front and it is idiot “supporters” such as these who were booing our players and disrespecting our manager on Saturday.”

Hey i forgot to mention, Congratulations timmytorres for today’s match. I hope you have a good time there. I have already mentioned my predictions.

As some of you have mentioned, we need our fringe players to get some match practice. SO i hope Babel, Benny and Lucas get some game time in some capacity and i hope they come good.

About our Full back woes, both our new recruits, one a 8 million pound Italian and another free transfer Swiss, are not up to the mark. Dossena is simply not able to play in our defensive setup, his positional play is, simply put, pathetic. Degen has be on a roll getting injury after injury and we have not been able to judge him as he has not played more than one match at a time. Hope they both come good in the second half of the season and be our dream full backs like we wanted them to be – bombing forward with killer passes, score a few goals, be defensively water tight, etc..

Regarding the blog Gerry – I’m not sure if Skysports can be blamed for supporters booing their own players. I think we live in a more demanding society these days where patience is a lot more scarce than it was 15-20 years ago. Even fans who have been going to football for years and years are moaning and barracking their own players. Season ticket holders who sound like middle aged scousers phoning up radiow and tv shows slamming the team and the manager.

I hate the term knee jerk reaction. It’s 18 years of frustration at Anfield that bring about the moans and groans in my eyes.

I think the booing got a little bloan out of proportion as well. Compare it to Newcastle and the London clubs when their patience wares thin. Compare it to the continent where the white hankies come out if Barcelona or Real are winning but in a boring fashion.

We think we get it bad – check out what Torres had to say recently….

“The club is a symbol of a city which fought to stay alive. Everyone is proud of the team. Players want to come here because they know that Liverpool is a truly great club.

“Anfield is the most English of all the grounds – people live and breathe football there. With just 45,000 fans there. That roar they give makes you think you have wings on your feet.”

Of playing in England, Torres added: “It isn’t easy to adapt but once you have, you would have trouble wanting to play anywhere else. The Premier League is way ahead of the Spanish league.

“You go to play away at a team in the relegation zone and you find yourself playing on a perfect pitch, with the stands full to bursting.

“And even if they lose, the crowd are going to cheer them on until the death. You only see this in British football.”

Great, Great post Gerry and I think that sums up the sentiments of the majority of the blog readers. It still baffles me how any sensible fan can even go down that road and still want to call them selves supporters; they need to look up the definition of support. FS I agree with you because I would have nutted somebody if I was there, probably just as well we are too old for that shit. It just saddens me to see it creep in at Anfield. Not for nothing are we the team most football supporters would want to succeed outside their own team. It is the decency, support and respect that we have traditionally shown everybody that plays there, opposition included, Manu, Everton and Chelsea excluded (just joking). If the youngsters can’t see the value of that then no amount of preaching is going to change it.

LB the stat came from the king of all that is Red Statistician, PT himself. It is based on win percentage over an entire season. At this stage our win percentage is the same as the 77/78 team and better than all the rest. So, in theory if we continued in this vain, result wise, we would equal their record. You can check out the article on the official site, I didn’t bother doing any checks as he is normally accurate. However I will take this stat know, it would mean we would have a record of 3 losses, 6 draws and 29 wins and 93 points.

Not a bad result for a team that I firmly believe has still not hit full stride.

My team for tonight:

Pepe
Arbie Carra Agger Dossena
Masch Alosno
Kuyt Gerrad Babbel
Torres

When we go 2-0 up bring on Keane, Lucas, and El Zhar for Gerrard, Masch and Kuyt.

Yes and I have also more chance of falling pregnant than getting the team right.

LB read the article because is points out the myth that today’s supporters think the teams of the glory years just had to turn up to get 3 points what they fail to understand is back then we used to loose and draw a lot more, some times over half the games, than we do right now.

NIDLIVERBIRD- How did u txt ur msg? (:D

I mean no disrespect at all but I’ll throw this out there. Maybe some of you older guys have this romantic, nostalgic image of the past where everything was wonderful on the terraces etc. Well what I remember is hooliganism, mass racism, pitches that barely had grass on, players kicking each other more than the ball and in many stadiums a very intimidating atmosphere. I feel a lot more comfortable in a stadium now than I did when I first went to football in the late 80s.

I have serious doubts that fans booing their own players is a new thing.

I will read it Keith. There is no doubt our start has been excellent. And sure we dropped points in title winning seasons in the past. However a few things contribute to fans thinking its all doom and gloom whenever we don’t win. (1) In recent years teams who win the title hardly drop any points. (2) We’ve had many false dawns over the last 18 years which remember is a lifetime to some of us. (3) All of our title rivals have won the title in this time. (4) The media are quick to remind us every God given moment.

This creates an anxiety. Therefore any draw or defeat will have some of us wondering if we’re gonna f*ck things up yet again.

I bet Man U fans don’t have the same level of anxiety when they drop points. They are confident they’ll challenge regardless because recent history tells you they always do. Liverpool fans maybe felt the same in the 70s and 80s.

great blog gerry. i admire ur ability to step back at times and take a look at the bigger picture. although i suppose you hav to in order to keep the faith.

when i posted my last comment it was full of rage and now that ive had time to reflect its still the same….. except on lookin at some of ur points ive realised that if robbie keane would hav scored(that chance) half that abuse at lucas would hav been stopped and he would hav made it through to his next game wiv a bit more confidence an believe.

so im still pissed off at robbie for doin so,dont get me wrong these things happen an keaneo will defo get atleast a season outta me,but i feel buryin that chance wud hav made a massive difference.

anyway in the cold light of day. we got away with it. though i dont wanna be watchin that game at the end of the season wondering what if…….

back on track tonight(timmy congrats, hav a great one mate)positive win. then i’m off to west ham game. COME ON YOU REDS!!!!!!!!!!

LB, I’m not having a go at you, I’m really not. But…
The whole point is, We are not Newcastle. We are not a London Club. We are not Barca or Real. We are Liverpool FC.

And I’m not Winston Churchill, giving it the we’ll fight them on the beaches bit. But throughout our club’s history of tragedy and victory we have always stuck together. It’s one of the great defining characters of LFC.

Torres is right. The club is a symbol of the adversty Liverpool in general as a city, and Scousers as a people, have had to fight against and for the most part won. And therefore, we should always give players wings under their feet and not weights on their backs.

I wonder if Torres felt quite the same way on Sunday morning? I know Jamie Carragher and Rafa never. And I’d bet my bottom lip Lucas didn’t.

Booing our own on the pitch is unacceptable – end of!

This man would be spinning…
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=7fG1ma2tYFI

I just hope the players are still believing. It’s obvious some of us have forgot.

FS, I don’t disagree with that. And I’ve been proud that we stoood out in that regard. But, human frustation and patience has it’s limit. And maybe even Liverpool fans are coming to the end of their tether in their wait for a league win. I guess its easier to be supportive when the team dominate as it did for nearly 2 decades. I’d guess that most of your examples of fantastic support is from our golden years. I’d love to know what it was like in some of the darker days before Shanks took over….

Far more worrying than the Lucas booing is this

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2008/11/26/mum-carjacked-during-riving-lesson-in-liverpool-115875-20925013/

LB, I booed Harry Kewell off the pitch in Istanbul. I felt guilty about that, even though I hated him. It was only when he said his infamous “Taking a rest” comment that I felt okay about booing him. But it didn’t justify it.

As for the golden days, like Bob Paisley, I went through the bad times and even seen them finish second. But jokes aside, the point is… it’s just more of our tradition and one of the things what made us unique being eroded. And, I know there’s more important things to get upset about, but it really saddens me to see it.

People can justify it by going on about frustration of waiting until they are blue in the face, it’s still not on. In fact, I wish they would turn blue in the face and fuck off to stamford Bridge as there is no place for that sort of behaviour at Anfield.

And that’s not some relic of a long last golden age… We clapped Arsenal off the pitch when they nicked our title there. You all know what we done in Istanbul? And we stayed behind to applaud AC Milan when they collected the cup and went on there lap of honour in Athens.

This behaviour must not be allowed to creep it’s way into Anfield, or we might as well just become another Newcastle.

Number 24…. I don’t get your point LB

Having read this blog and comments for years, it was natural that when I finally got me hands on a pair of Liverpool-Hull tics for the first time I was as excited as I was nervous.

I didnt want to be one of the tourists talking on the mobile and taking pictures during YNWA. I didnt want to be one taking pictures of Gerrard or Torres instead of following the game. Or making a video instead of cheering the team on. I desperatley wanted to avoid being that person.

Yesterday I lost my camera. Thats taken care of then.

YNWA

As for before Shankly… you can read what he said about taking over in a million places. I would say it, but I think it’s better for people to find out.

You see, back then we knew LFC simply weren’t there to entertain us. We didn’t sit back in the seats moaning and expecting to be entertained and booing our “frustration” when we weren’t.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=JrTbG6dql74

Supporting and being a fan are 2 completely different things. All pulling together, working hard at our parts, and then sharing the rewards… Bill Shankly’s socialism.

And something in common he saw in the Liverpool fans, and the reason why he knew he could turn Anfield into a bastion of invincibility.

You can look it up, or take it from me… That faith and vision Shanks had didn’t come from the boardroom. It didn’t come from the players we had at the time. It came from the 50 thousand faithful who filled that ramshackle stadium for every game, long before the days of Sky, cheap travel and the hype.

I really didn’t want to go on about this. I’d said my piece in the last blog. And I know trying to teach it to those who won’t learn is a waste of my time. But believe me, trying to convince me and fellas like me – young or old – that it’s justified is never going to happen.

PS: Bhavster, take all the pictures and videos you want. Just don’t sit there waiting to be entertained, join in – support, that’s your job.

I think tonight’s game will be much closer than 3-0, as I think Marseille are a very, very good side.

I will go for: Reds 1 Marseille 0

Enjoy, Timmy.

LB we are all frustrated that we have not challenged (realistically) for a long time and yes for us that where around in good old times maybe we have a slightly red tinted look at things. However in some cases it is worse for us because of the success we got used to. The friends and family that take utter joy and glee with our position and make sure they remind us of that stat. It does not make it any easier for us to swallow.

Lucas is not responsible for the last 18 years, none of these current players are and in reality they are our best chance to end the drought in circumstances a lot tougher than yesteryear. With that in mind how moronic is it for the fans to get on the teams back. Surly with our best chance for a decade it should be all out support. The term “The Kop sucking the ball into the net” springs to mind. The twelfth man as well. So where was the twelfth man when the team was flagging, when the players where tired and it was a bad day at the office?

People can justify and explain away the frustration, but when you get down to brass tacks it is still unacceptable for a Liverpool crowd to react that way to a Liverpool player let alone a youngster in his second year and even more damming before a ball has been kicked. They did not even let him settle before they got on his back. How is that going to help?

When people like Tommy Smith comes out and say he understands it’s pure bollocks Yes he did support Lucas further on, but still it’s bollocks and he should now better. If Carra had to come out and say something about it, it must be affecting the team let alone the youngster. How is that supporting your team? No excuses can justify it, it is just plainly unacceptable from a Liverpool perspective and I don’t give a fuck what they do anywhere else.

Good Blog, Gerry, I loved the substance.

I have to say I stand by many in that the booing was totally unacceptable.

First of all, as many pointed out, it was not justifiable on the grounds of merit– there were other players much worthier of being on the receiving end of criticism in that game. Lucas played pretty well. Secondly, if we can be compassionate to lampard when he lost his mother before our champions’ League clash, why not to our very own lucas when he recently had his house robbed; ffs, he lost many memorable items. The fact that they were recovered is beside the point. Surely, a little compassion would not have hurt under such circumstances. It is digusting that the fans on that day at Anfield conveniently forgot about this incident. Thirdly, as I previously pointed out, what is being missed about the whole booing towards lucas was that it also meant that the booing was directed at Rafa’s decision to play him and keep him on for the 90 minutes. If that was the original intent, then it is logical (but still not accpetable in my view), but I have a very strong feeling that many who were booing that night had no intention of booing Rafa. That this distinction is expedient and erred goes without saying. And finally, and probably the most important, is as FS says, the booing totally broke Liverpool’s underlying tradition. I totally understand LB’s feelings– I was also very scared of the stadium in the 80s, and Liverpool always had its share of racists, hooligans and whathaveyous. But that was never the majority, and in any event, we always had a unique tradition of being able to distinguish the timing and manner in which to express our frustration and anger towards a certain individual or performance. We need to keep that alive. Again, I understand it when LB says that there is a limit to a fan’s patience, but that has to be expressed at an appropriate time. And for those of you who say that someone is entitled to their own opinion, I’m sorry, I don’t buy that cliche per se. It is as incorrect as saying you are allowed to do anything because we live in a democratic and free world. Freedom bears heavy responsibilities– we need to be mature and have self-control for the system to work. So be it at LFC. Sure you can think and feel what you want, but to vent that in any emotional way possible is the same as waving our rights and privilege to support Liverpool. The board bears its responsiblities, the manager has his responsibilities and the players have their parts to play. So do we.

And timmy, enjoy your trip to Anfield– dead jealous!!

Well said, Keith.

LB, mate its common to think about challenging and vying for the title. But can you really tell me in the last say 8 years, did we really have a team which could fight for the top spot? We have always had one or two great players but as a team do you think we ever had strong team which could fight for the title?

If your answer is yes, then end of story and your #24 might be justified in your eyes.

If your answer is no then, you are agreeing that we are building the team now, Rafa is building the team for the title. This year, we can say we can be contenders provided that our main team players are not injured. So in actuality how can you be fed up of waiting for the title when you don’t have the team to fight for it?

My team for today’s game would be

Reina
Arbeloa-Carragher-Agger-Dossena
Kuyt-Lucas-Alonso-Babel
Keane-Torres

I too want a 4-2-3-1 formation with Torres up front and Gerrard as the link up man. But i don’t want to risk Gerrard in this game. I also want to see how Torres and Keane link up….

Benny for Kuyt. Ngog for Torres when we are 2-0 up.

Hyde mate, Shankly called it the Holy Trinity… The manager (Himself, of course. That was Shanks.) The players and the fans.

Anyway, I’ve had my say. On to tonight….
Marseille won’t be mugs. So, as for resting players just for the sake of resting them, I wouldn’t think that a very good idea. A lot of people seem to think Gerrard should be rested. Well, I don’t know about that. It was tight over at their place. We won 2-1. Who scored both goals… Yep. Gerrard.

Well, I’ll leave the dilemmas to Rafa. I’m off the bookies. I just checked the odds and Danny Agger is 25 to 1 for the first goal scorer. Mug bet I know, but I’m going to waste at least a fiver on a bet anyway. So, at them odds, what the fuck, I’ll take a punt.

PS… I have just heard some Chelsea “fans” on Talk Shite, moaning about their results and saying, yep, you’ve got it… Scolari has got to go.

My mind boggles at these time I live in. No doubt, they’ll be going on about their history and traditions next!

Sorry it must be comment No. #23 LB.

FS they ain’t got no history.

I just got summoned into a meeting with my manager and director. Thought it was time to clear out the desk but no, they’ve just re-structured my job for the 12th time in 2 years.

I need a moment to read through all the posts. There are quite a few addressed to me so I’ll have a good read and try to respond.

FS – post #24. What I mean is the booing Lucas got is not all that significant when compared to how low society is going at this moment.

LB – Good points as usual mate but I just totally disagree with you. You talk of fans being impatient and frustrated after waiting for 18 years etc but I just don’t buy that at all.
Firstly many of those fuckers haven’t even been around 18 years.
I have and so have many others, we’ve suffered every one of them and every time the mancs got their hands on another one its been like a knife to our hearts.
The supporters who have actually been around for these past 18 yrs have forgotten more about frustration than many of these little cunts and johnny-come-lately’s will ever know but you don’t see any of those turning on the team during a game. Of course every litter has its runts, but for the vast majority I doubt the thought of it would even enter their minds, no matter how frustrated they may feel during a game and let’s not for forget that the moaning and groaning in the stands on Saturday began with barely 15 minutes of the game gone which just makes it even more ridiculous.
My other point, and the reason why I said in the blog that once again I was as confused as a blind lesbian in a fish market, is that even if fans are frustrated about the last 18 yrs or so we are at the top of the table right now and if these “supporters” can’t find a way to cheer the team on when we are in this position, what kind of support can we expect from them if the team loses a couple of games and drifts back into 3rd or 4th?
You may say that some of us are old farts pining over the good old days, but all I’m looking for is a team that gives it everything they have on the pitch and a bit of respect for their efforts in the stands. If that’s considered old-fashioned, then I’m guilty as charged.

Read all your posts and I take it on board. And yes I will do some research on the pre Shankly years and the sentiments of the great man when he first took charge. I’d like to get a feel of what it was like when we were not a successful football club. I know we won league titles pre shankly but also realise we went through a shit patch and got relegated. If the support was totally unconditional even towards those playing shite in those days then I’ll accept that this latest generation of fan who pack out Anfield every week is not of the same cloth.

That said.

Last season I saw unprecedented support for a football manager. The way the supporters backed Rafa was something I’ve never seen before and I’m not likely to see again. It wasn’t just SOS either. The entire ground seemed to be Rafa’s right hand man during that period. Also consider this. Our players from the 1980s say that the atmosphere on European knock out nights now exceeds the atmosphere of the Euro nights in the 80s. Then there is Istanbul.

So in the general sense it hasn’t all gone to shit surely.

There are just certain things that really get up certain fans nose:

- Having your best available midfielder on the bench while the midfield on the pitch are playing shite.
- Players who are internationals and get paid £100k and week can’t put in a decent corner.
- Not closing down the opposition and losing all of the 50/50s.
- The inability to pass the ball to a team mate and then do the move bit.

I think the booing of Lucas was disgraceful but at the same time I understand people being pissed off at Alonso being left on the bench. I’m not trying to justify it but I understand the reaction. I was on the phone to my mate foaming at the mouth at a Masch and Lucas midfield. Minutes before that when I went on the official site and saw ‘Torres back in the starting XI” I smiled. Then saw “But Alonso will have to make do with a place on the bench”. I’m afraid there were a few expletives.

Gerry, Maybe thoughts on

a) definition of a fan (supporter)
b) role of a fan
c) ways of showing support (or venting frustration)
d) changing face of fans, LFC fans.

There you go mate, your first homework in donkeys years. To be handed in before the holiday season. For assistance, only internet and stella allowed.

YNWA

Just seen your post Gerry. I’m still to be convinced that its all the fault of the Johnny come lately’s and youngsters. I was at Anfield for the Middelsbrough game and there were 2 guys in front of me in the main stand that looked to be in their 60s. One of them was slagging Arbeloa most of the match. Others around me were very frustrated and moaned a lot.

FS has admitted to booing Kewell at Istanbul. You yourself Gerry have written that you never want to see Bollacks Zenden in a Liverpool shirt again or Riise should be dropped from a tall building. Then there is your mate Pennant. It’s the same level of frustration that caused this that caused some fans to turn on Lucas and that team performance. I aint saying its right I’m just offering an explanation as to why it happened.

I also think the young supporters and the johnny come lately’s are an easy target just as players like Lucas are. The atmosphere is bad so its the day trippers fault. Fans are booing so must be the litte young cunts. That’s too simplistic in my view.

LB, sorry mate but you just don’t get it.

Yes, people have always moaned, like people will moan today. Yes, the atmosphere can be great on some occasions nowadays. (The Chelsea semi-finals were fantastic and rivalled St. Eittienne. Which I never thought would be beat.) People will, and always have, criticised players and the manager even in the stands not just the pub like they should. All these things and more can be cited to justify the actions on Saturday.

But there is one huge glaring difference… The treatment of Lucas and the reactions of the “fans” on Saturday to Rafa’s decisions, mark a new low for LFC. I don’t care what anybody in here or elsewhere says, that was something completely new for Anfield. And it was an absolute disgrace. There is no justifying it.

And if it wasn’t down to “Johnny Come Lately’s” who was it down to? I know for a fact, most everyone attending LFC games before Istanbul would not have acted like that. People who weren’t raised on the hype of Sky, and never got their idea of how to support a team from the ridiculousness of Soccer AM type shows would not have acted like that.

I know who it wasn’t. So, who was it?

Well, here’s the confirmed team…

Reina, Arbeloa, Aurelio, Carragher, Agger, Mascherano, Alonso, Riera, Kuyt, Gerrard, Torres.

Subs: Cavalieri, Dossena, Benayoun, Lucas, Babel, Keane, Kelly.

I’m off the alehouse to watch them. It’s full of auld Scousers. I think I’ll start booing to see what happens.

I see the ‘fans’ debate is still raging but I think that I have had my two cents worth.

For tonight’s game, I don’t think that it will be as easy match. Marseille are a far better outfit that this time last year, although they are not on the best run in their league at the moment.

I think that I will go for a 0-0.

Only, kidding, I can’t choose that scoreline all the time .

I will go for a 2-0, with Torres getting his first goal at Anfield since the 4th May – strange but true!

Strong starting 11 tonight.

BTW, have a good one Timmy, & no booing!

Firstly…
Outstanding fuckin blog Ged!!!
And I say that mostly for one reason. It would be an understatement to suggest that you have not been Lucas Leiva’s biggest fan … but what sets this blog apart is your ability AND perhaps more importantly your willingness, to set that aside and OBJECTIVELY analyze/review his (and his teammates) Fulham performance.

For that, you get the biggest KUDOS I can offer you sir.

“The Most Knowledgeable Fans In The World” tag is still alive and kicking, if only at KopBlog!

Second…
to suggest that we aren’t that bad coz others boo more is horrendous. Sorry LB I really am not picking on you. But seriously WE MUST hold OURSELVES to a higher standard. We are Liverpool FC, borne and bred, or dyed in red and that must count for something, must MEAN something… or YNWA are just the words of a Pacemaker written on a page in the 60s, and have no meaning… as they were for Lucas on Saturday!

I quote you our very own VunderKind, Fernando Torres, in today’s press… LB posted it at #16, but here it is again (the article can be foundon The Echo website)
“The club is a symbol of a city which fought to stay alive. Everyone is proud of the team. Players want to come here because they know that Liverpool is a truly great club.
Anfield is the most English of all the grounds – people live and breathe football there. With just 45,000 fans there. That roar they give makes you think you have wings on your feet.”
(Aitch: unless you’re Lucas Leiva, who can basically fuck off I guess?)

“You go to play away at a team in the relegation zone and you find yourself playing on a perfect pitch, with the stands full to bursting. And even if they lose, the crowd are going to cheer them on until the death. You only see this in British football.”
(Aitch: That’s relegation fans he’s talking about in that last quote lads, not the KOP???)

This the point I was trying to make in the last blog, when I aske dpeople to step back and take a breath. I suggested “a long hard look in the mirror” for some people and it was taken as being condescending.
Admittedly, I was taking the higher ground, but that’s really all I’m asking from the rest of our faithful… that we all take the higher ground from the rabble and prawn sandwich brigade… coz rest asured when the bulk of the extra seat in the new stadium are going to be for corporate seating…. the prawn sandwiches are not far behind!

Some would suggest that the booing was for Rafa’s decision making and not Lucas performance… in which case I again refer you to the events of last November when Rafa gave us a petulent little press conference to alert us to the impending rotation of Jurban Klinsman into his position!

The Holy Trinity must be preserved at all costs.
That is not blinkered mental meandering for a kinder gentler time in our past.
That is our duty as current LFC fans to uphold EVERYTHING that we stand for.

We are not Newcastle, we are not Scum, we are not Chavs. We are Liverpool FC and as such have a higher standard that we simply MUST hold ourselves to, if we are to be worthy of number 19.

That’s my opinion anyway.

On a different note… can we please nip this bud before it escalates.

NO TEXT-SPEAK ALLOWED IN KOPBLOG…

Lurg, your score prediction just reminded me about something I wanted to comment on in the last blog but forgot to…

…and that is the staggering number of 3-0 and 4-0 scoreline predictions.
Only 2 people other than myself predicted we would concede a goal against Fulham… this overconfidence perhaps explaining some of the disenchantment with both the performance and 0-0 result that led to frustrations boiling over????

Myself, I read it all as just a bit of arrogance on our part. Our defence is not currently what it has been in sesons past.

So I’ll predict that we will concede a goal tonight… to a very handy Marseille side… but hope, and think that we can, bag 2 at the other end for a win.

Aitch, Marseille are looking lively and you may well be proven right. As long as we score one more than them!

Gerrard~~!!!!!

how we missed him….!!

What a header to celebrate your 10th anniversary..

Great cross by Alonso for the goal.

I understand you wanting to keep faith in lucas.but I think our biggest problem is our lack of transfer funds.if we are to push on and really compete with chelsea and man utd we need a stronger squad and that means hard cash.we need to buy a young promising centrehalf,a world class right midfielder/winger,and a near as dammit like for like striker to cover for nando. and that’s just the to allow us to keep up our challenge for honours this season.and we need these players to be brought in next transfer window urgently.keep the faith rafamuffin.

Hope we score atleast one more to make sure we are thru. if we don’t i have a feeling that they may nick one goal.

What a strike from Gerrard!!!!

Donno why but i felt the tempo just reduced after the goal. IMO we should be going for the second before lifting the foot off the pedal.

God job we didn’t REST Stevie G.

Sorry I don’t think we needed heavens help on Stevie G’s part.It should have said GOOD jOB.

Dossena on for Aurelio. Half time change. Hope its works out well…

Let’s hope we score a few more in the 2nd half, so we are not subjected to the one-man team match reports again.

I think i saw Dossena…

Something happened to Aurelio?

1-1

F***

nope… my mistake..

Aurelio off with an (calf) injury… again

Benny coming on…

ben Arfa totally skinned Dossena..

OMG….

getting a bit lively now – well in Kuyt

good response for Lucas…

coming on, I mean

Not the best but job done.

2nd half performance woz so ulgy it would make an onion cry………… ah wel suppose were through.

do we need a rest??? i hate us not playin on sats though really glad nxt game is not until monday nite!!!!!!

FS, Agger nearly got the first goal for you. At 25-1 this is not a bad bet.

We were bad tonight! We’re through but, it should be more convincing than that. Masch is off his game lately. We’re so lucky to have the Gerrard bail us out. Dossena is so limited. I’m not getting carried away with the result.

Aitch, so you got it wrong then…………. we didn’t concede a goal against Fulham!

I got tonight’s score line right, my third corect one in four matches (just a shame I couldn’t pull it off when there was a prize at stake)

I haven’t seen tonight’s match, but saw Stevie’s goal………… nice one. As I said earlier, Marseille are no mugs and they did cause us problems, we were hanging on at times.

But, job done, and apart from the trip to Holland in a couple of weeks (to try and win the group) we can put the CL to bed until February. Can’t wait for the draw next month though!

Good result, just what we needed to erase saturdays disappointment. Great header stevie lad, get in there! Was well impressed with reception lucas got, hope that gave him a boost after saturdays moans and groans. Good post in no. 46 Aitch but i think your wrong about our defence not being as good as seasons past (48), hasent reina got the most clean sheets in the prem this season?

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=dy9rw5G_zUA&NR=1

Good Result.

You know, many people dislike members in their own family, but you cannot divorce your own kind, can you?
For me the same can be said about any player that has played for Liverpool and my rugby league team- NZ Warriors. Yes, there have been many players that I’ve dis-liked and yes I’ve said more than my fair share of curses when they’ve messed up. But, at the end of the day they are and will always be apart of the history of my team…
Sometimes, not very often, these such players come right and I can tell you there’s not a better feeling than seeing a player beat his demons and succeed…
I can understand the Lucas angst, however I’ve always maintained that he’s our 4th choice mid-feilder- why so much angst? Our full backs don’t even have suitable first teamers, let alone back up… Other areas in our squad need improvement and we must bring on young talent…

Also, I must apologise as the discussion last blogg about us needing a fading creative star such as Deco, Del Piero etc looks to have been prooven the case against Fulham… Damn!!!!!!

YNWA

Hey FS,

How’d the booing experiment go? Im banking on you not having the bollocks to have dared!!!

Result was good, enough said… Who needs Carling Cup to bring along our youth??? Just give them a seething European Cup game to cut their teeth in…

Wonderful post #73 FS.

Phone call today “do i want tickets for tonlght” silly question. anyway straight behind goal Anfield rd end ,someone mentioned the Kop sucking the ball in the goal, well tonight the Anfield rd end started singing for Gerrard 10 secs later he scores, thats the power of support/ confidence.
Nice to see a good reception for Lucas, bad to see Marseille twats throwing things at Gerrard, Monster had a good game despite them trying to get him sent off.and Dossena made up for early errors, 3 points in the bag.

Our team played very well before goal and you can see they played liked Benitez’s Valencia team. Fast tackling, wining back the ball from midfield quickly, good passing and teamwork. After we scored, we sort of letting go the rein and let them come into the game, especially the second half. This could partly due to mental (that we have gone through) and under performance of some players. Mascherano was not his usual self. Dossena really had a poor outing. He was slow and could not last the pace. In one occasion, you could see that Gerrard wanting him to move forward into the opening space, though he did and won a corner, you could see how tired he was from the TV screen. Looks like we need to look for the right and left full backs again in the market in January.

At last, I’ve been trying to find this clip for ages. I mentioned in the blog that in my view Sky Sports has played a big role in a lot of the stuff that’s wrong with the game these days. The tabloid nature of their coverage, every small detail being totally overblown and the simplistic views of their pundits seems to have brainwashed some fans. Which is why I laughed so much when I first saw the clip below because I think it exemplifies some these points very well. Check it out.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=eJxkdEcWm9E

Gerry whilst we all understand your broader point and that certain negative aspects of modern society are endemic to sky sports, to trace booing on the terraces to sky is simply inaccurate. Football fans have booed, jeered, chanted and pissed and moaned since football fans have been attending games. Its a part of the fabric of the game. Good or bad it existed before 1992. As regards their tabloid nature well that was there too before the advent of sky – the tabloids! So they had a captive audience more

Fuck Gerry will somebody shoot him please. Great clip FS. When you trawl the net for news there are just certain sites you don’t go on. The sensationalized transfer news of caughtoffsides with all the amazing exclusives, tribal football ect it makes you sick.

The game last night? What to say? The best thing you can say was we got three points and are through to the knockout stages, for the rest disappointing. On the positive side if this is our mini slump for the season at least the results, mostly are going are way and that are less than stellar performances are not costing us anything. We started so well and it just went down hill from there on.

I am not to sure the reasons for these lack luster and disjointed displays, are they tired? Wouldn’t that be a laugh if Rafa gets blamed for not rotating enough? Are the injuries to key players affecting our continuity and we have yet to settle down as a team? Masch is going through a bad patch; I hope this captaincy thing is not getting to him. We looked shaky at the back and even worse when Dossena came on, but to be fair to him he did make up for his earlier mistakes by some good blocks and covering. Agger again got caught out a lot and I don’t know whether it is the play of Skertal and his solid defensive displays that make Agger look more vulnerable or that he is still not up to speed?

I know Torres is fast but do we really have to bang it long all the time, are build up play is non existent at times in our rush to get Torres away and we just end up giving the ball away. Great start and a well taken goal by Gerrard, but again we did not kick on from there.

Shite. Was gonna say more than willing to lap up every ‘breaking news’ headline. So you see Gerry we are a little more than complicit in this marriage of convenience i.e football fan happy to accept skys money plus every iota of info on said fans footie team in return for putting up with listening to skys hacks giving them viewership. Quid pro quo clarice, quid pro quo…..

Carragher was awesome, world class! Excellent in his game play and deserves a mention… CAPTAIN FANTASTIC clinical at his best. Dossena on the other hand needs to go on a strict diet and mayb an EAS Body for life program! He was extremley slow and Ben Arfe made him look silly… had Marseille played slightly more intelligently they could have really exposed him… Sorry Dossena but you too fricken slow! A second goal would have being great but we can try against PSV…

Ahh well, some of us get it… Saturday afternoon used to be football…
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=8f2-Hw8ukqc&feature=related

It’s called no alternative Digger, Sky bought the rights and if we want to watch we have to put up with their commentary. Yes they have poured millions into the Prem and yes they are responsible for it being the most lucrative and therefore the best league in the world on the basis that the Prem can afford to pay for the best talent in the world.

However saying that with great power come even greater responsibility and unfortunately Sky have gone the American All action Hype route, the best the greatest the most indestructible and I am surprised they have not called the Prem the World Series of Football. This all instant success hype and the demands for it have tainted the supporters and changed the perception as to what is acceptable and what is not. Ex players have climbed onto the band wagon in their slating of their teams and the fans think if they can do it why not us. These ex-players are doing it simply to be controversial to get and keep their jobs. There is no good news like bad news syndrome. In the good old days (for us old farts anyway) we only had the Sun and News of the World sensationalized headlines to contend with and most fans ignored it and would only buy it when England lost to see what Headlines they would come up with, the Graeme Taylor Turnip comparison which was funny or the David Mellor quote “From Toes Job to no Job” in his Chelsea kit.

Us antipodeans from the Southern Hemisphere love our sport as much, if not more than rest of the world, we are however fortunate to have broadcasters that give as unbiased few and balanced reporting most of the time. The Aussies can get a bit jingoistic and over the top at times and I know I am going to get flak for that comment. For example Supersport (yes they take Sky feeds) listen to the complaints and change according to what viewers want, hence them axing the Man U game for the Liverpool game once we pointed out their favoritism in favor of the Mancs. There, before, during and post match comments (we don’t get Sky’s feed thank goodness) are also more balance (I say that in relative terms as there is a baize towards the Mancs even over hear)

If you read Gerry’s comment it was never the Liverpool Way, yes it happened at other clubs, yes it is not the sole reason but just by the way they market, sell and broadcast their product called football it brings out the worst in people by saying it’s the norm to slate, criticizes and get on peoples back because we are paying for it, so we should demand it. The fans are just following their example in this instant gratification called modern sport. In reality, if you have played sport at a high level, you would know that it is virtually impossible to produce week in and week out, there will be lows to go with the highs and instead of getting on the teams back it is during these times that they need more support. Need I say Istanbul.

The old days we would play shit for the entire game a long ball would find Rush he would more often than not bury it and we would take the points and be happy as we rolled onto another title. We accepted there would be bad days at the office where the team just did not gel, the winning ugly syndrome. Look at all the complaints with us winning ugly this season (not showing championship winning form, don’t bury teams the way Manu and Chelsea do) and why can’t we play football like Arsenal. Look at all the flak they are getting and everybody now jumping on their backs “It’s no use playing pretty football if you don’t win anything” heard that before?

Anyway what do we know after 40 odd years of supporting the Reds? Tradition and doing it the Liverpool way is what made us great and kept us on top for so long. Moors fuck it up from a commercial aspect, the Two Twats have made it worse, Rafa has dragged us back kicking and screaming despite all the odds and everything that is stacked against him.

Hell but it’s OK to get on his back for team selection for one game (conveniently forgetting everything else he has done) and get on a youngsters back because the manager has faith in him being his only crime, such is the fickle soulless nature of fans today. I want is all, I want is now motto, forgetting it takes time to build a dynasty, ask Shankly, ask Fungus.

Fuck I can see all the self righteous comments coming I will get of my cross somebody else might need the wood.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=GfSt6HCGSmw&NR=1

This is why I dont comment on team selection after the game. Not only is hindsight 20/20, i make the absurdly foolish assumption that I have the same facts Rafa has, and more foolishly have a better footballing brain than Rafa. That said, I am NOt saying that Rafa never makes mistakes, hell I’m sure if you ask him he’ll confess (again with the benefit of hindsight) that he could have done things differently.

So Masch played yesterday, had a poor game according to me. Maybe he needs a rest, maybe not. Now, once the game is over, we can argue if Lucas/Plessis/XXXX should have partnered Alonso. Or maybe a different formation. The thing that gets on me tits is that if Lucas (for eg) had started, his every misplaced pass would have brought out a “how can we play him with the best defensive midfielder on the bench”. See, we’ll never know what the other option COULD have done, so I rather one of the brightest footballing brain decides that rather than me.

And finally, if any blogger feels, that I am being too pro-Rafa, heres a simple game we can play. Before each game, once the team news is out, predict the result. Simple, not the score, just the result. Stack your predictions against Rafa’s (assuming he always goes for a win).

Should try and get some work done now.
YNWA

All this instant gratification nonsense we see in sports as a whole nowadays seems to mirror very well how stock markets behave.

When there’s good news back in the bull market, everyone is going bull about how the future is rosy and all, while the “long term value investors” like Warren Buffett are chastised as “scaremongers” for urging caution.

Then in this current climate of fear, everyone is shivering at the mention of every rumour, while lambasting the value investors for being “dangerously reckless” for saying now’s the opportunity in a lifetime.

Anyway, I’m getting carried away here by my scant knowledge of the economy. Like those fickle so-called “investors” in the stock market (they’re actually more like gamblers), nowadays all these prawn sandwich football fans seem to lack any sense of perspective of the big picture whatsoever.

How bad is the Torres injury? Am I allowed to ask? Is Aurellio injured again? How come Dossena came on?

I didn’t see the game. Apparently we didn’t play great especially in the second half. No action for Babel again I see. I saw the goal though. Brilliant header from the skipper.

What do you guys think of Masch this season? He seems a tad off form to me. Or am I not allowed to question a players’ form either since we’re top?

I hope we get a really attractive tie in the next round. Real Madrid would be good.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2008/11/26/tommy-smith-liverpool-fans-were-right-to-vent-their-feelings-100252-22343872/

Time for me to jump back in.

I have a question for those who are regular attendees at Anfield. My understanding, and please correct me if I’m wrong, is that apart from the Away seats, most (or all?) of the rest of Anfield is filled with season ticket holders. Throw in some sponsors tickets and scalped tickets etc, but what percentage would be season ticket holders? The vast majority?

Now, on a European night, my understanding is that virtually all tickets at Anfield go on sale and being a season ticket holder is no advantage – the only advantage you get is if you have attended a previous Euro game, you get priority on tickets. Is this also correct?

So, unless I’m completely mistaken on both of those counts, there’s a fair chance that any disgraceful behaviour during a league game is quite likely to involve season ticket holders… and even if it doesn’t, I’d feel like it is their responsibility to stop it – eg the booing. My assumption is that becoming a season ticket holder at Liverpool isn’t an easy thing to do… so a season ticket holder should be a seasoned supporter. So just how can there be so many “Johnny come latelys” in the crowd?? Because if it’s that easy, get me a fucking season ticket and I’ll move to Liverpool tomorrow!

Rafa himself once said that European nights at Anfield are so special because a lot of people who don’t normally get to attend games are in the stadium. I just don’t think it’s fair to blame so much on so-called “new” supporters… I’d bet there’s fucking 10s of thousands of us out here who’d bite your arm off for a season ticket, who’d sing every song and never boo a player. And I reckon a fair few examples of these people are those that attend European nights – which we are so famous for having such special atmospheres at.

To put it another way… if all this booing etc was the fault of the johnny-come-latelys, wouldn’t we be getting a hell of a lot more of it on European nights?

Sorry for the long post and someone please correct me wherever I’m wrong in my assumptions about who is at what games. And by the way yes I know that a lot of season ticket holders would attend Euro nights too – but my point is obviously that a lot of “new” people are there on those nights.

I heard some of the booing of Lucas / the Masch substitution / etc in the Fulham match. If they were all johnny-come-latelys then there must be at least 10,000 of them at Anfield. Otherwise, we need to face the facts that some seasoned veteran supporters were booing too.

Sorry to hog things – but I wanted to add – in my long post above I don’t mean to sound like I’m not respecting the older supporters or the Liverpool Way. I don’t mean that at all. We desperately need those seasoned veterans to help keep our traditions alive. BUT IF THEY DON’T ACCEPT A YOUNGER GENERATION COMING THROUGH, OUR CLUB AS WE KNOW IT WILL BE DEAD IN 20 YEARS.

Fat Scouser, on that note, I think you are preaching to the converted in here. I’m not saying to keep quiet because I love your posts, I’m saying that I hope you are preaching the same stuff to any johnny-come-lately, johnny-come-latelyish, and johnny-come-10-years-ago you meet around Anfield. Someone has to be the future supporters of the club.

LB – I also agree that Masch has looked a bit off-form lately. In some ways I see it as a good sign, because it isn’t costing us too badly at the moment and we know he is class so I’m confident he’ll come good.

Andy I think there are around 28,000 season ticket holders at Anfield. Not 100% sure though. There are 3,000 hosipitality seats. That leaves 14,000 and I’d guess the majority of these are members or e-season ticket holders who can buy a ticket before it goes on general sale.

Anyway maybe I don’t get it like some of the fans here who have supported the club for 40 years. But I am just not having it that this is down to the new generation of fan and long seasoned fans don’t boo. Hence my example of FS booing Kewell in Istanbul.

I also think there is a lot of intelligence insulting regarding this notion of Sky Sports and their ability to brain wash fans who know their football. I don’t need Richard Keys, Andy Gray or Charlie Nicholas to help me form an opinion. Sometimes I’ll agree with a pundit and at other times I think they talk out of their arse. I’m sure others do the same.

And what of Thommy Smith’s article (above) I suppose he has an ‘agenda’ or has got caught up in the sky sports hype as well? This guy played under Shanks and is a scouser and generally shares my opinion. Maybe he doesn’t get it either.

LB this is the forum to vent, criticize, debate, disagree and argue as we have done many times in the past and will continue to do so. I am just dead against it at the game. There will always be moans and groans at missed and misplaced passes etc but surly it should not get in the way of supporting the team. We all, as fans want to win, so what is the best we as fans can do to help the team, support or get on there backs?

I stick up for Lucas because I think he will make it given time, a lot of people here don’t think so (probably the majority, FS included) and we will argue about it. However regardless of what we think we should all get behind the lad when he pulls on a red jersey because that is what is best for the team. I some times get the feeling that some fans are waiting for people to fail just to say I told you so, where as I and most people on this site would be thrilled if Lucas stuffs it right down the critics throats.

That’s how it should be for the real supporters and should have nothing to do with age. Loyalty and passion should not be confused, combined yes sensibly and realistically. Look at the reaction to Riera on the blogs when it was announced that we had signed him before he had played a game people where writing him off.

We are not going to win every game and we will be lucky if we play decent football in half our fixtures. Luck, winning ugly and winning while having a bad day at the office and not loosing when you should have is what it takes to win a league. That’s how the great sides of the past did it. That is why Anfield was so intimidating because teams could not get a result no matter how well they played and the crowd plays a big part in that.

Please take that in the context it was meant, we obviously did loose matches but not many.

Just because you are a great player does not mean you are the oracle on all things Liverpool. There are quite a few ex players that fit into that mould and most played under great managers. That not to say that any of us are either, as the clichéd quote goes it is my opinion and I will argue it.

Keith, I think everyone on this site – LB included – are in total agreement that once a player pulls on the red shirt and takes the field, they deserve our full support. What we’re getting at right now though is that when that support doesn’t happen, it’s very easy to blame the younger supporters and then in turn blame Sky Sports for brainwashing them. I wasn’t at the Fulham game so I couldn’t say who was doing most of the booing, but I’d be pretty surprised if it was the same people who were standing up to take photos of the Kop.

Wherever the “blame” lies is probably less important though – what’s more important is the future and how to fix it. Guys like FS have got the traditions of the club running through their veins; the question is, how do we best pass this on to the next set of supporters? The changing of the guard is inevitable, we don’t want to lose the traditions along the way though. But if the younger fans get blamed for everything, they’ll never get taught anything either.

I dont know 4 sure if some of our fans have noticed we’re turning Anfield into Wembley. I think we’ve become a good road team lately because there’s less pressure away from home. That, to me is sad. Yes, we might have a 19 year drought, but like in marriage, this is our LFC, whom we should support. Insulting players wont make them better. Would those fans like to be on the receiving end of such? Is Lucas as bad as he’s made out? He’s relatively young, at 21, and a work in progress. He does work hard and is truly not shy about giving to the cause. Keane, like Heskey, gives us good movt, numerous assists and is part of why we’re @ the top. As Carra said this week, lets be true fans and support the team. Lets exercise patience too. We arent as badly off as we keep moaning. Man U & Chelsea endured 26 and 50 years of futility but finally bagged it. We’ll also make it & surpass them under RB and his team. Whatever our differences, lets not kill the legendary Kop spirit. We’ve never walked alone. Lets not start now. Please!

LFC fans were writing off Riera before he kicked a ball for the club. In 1987 LFC fans wrote off John Barnes before he kicked a ball for the club (for non footballing reasons I might add). So I’m not having it that it was all rosy in the good ol’ days.

Cant say i disagree with a single word of that article lb especially the boos were aimed at the bench part. In fact its basically word for word what you and i have been saying in here since saturday. Oh well, to each his own i guess. Far be it for anyone to question rafa. Heresy. Shame on you Tommy. Andy wirral great post in 93. Kiethsa who do you want Gerry to shoot? And to all ex-pats living in the u.s like myself who are gonna get loaded and eat a massive turkey dinner today, happy thanksgiving!

Some LFC fans wrote off Riera before he kicked a ball for the club, but just as many of us said let’s see how he goes. So far he has done well, and added a new dimension to our attacking play.

Anyone who wrote off John Barnes before he came to LFC was, IMHO, a fucking idiot! Regardless of the reason they didn’t want him to make it at LFC.

Torres has been ruled out for up to another 3 weeks, his season really is stop start at the moment. My fear is that the 3 weeks will become 5 or 6 weeks, like they did last time.

At best we might have him back for the trip to Arsenal on 21st Dec.

Hmmmm, I’m not sure if I’m just being misinterpreted by some people or maybe I just haven’t explained myself too well, perhaps it’s a little of both.
I’ve just been reading through the comments and I’d just like to clarify a few points that seem to have gone awry but before I do, I just want to comment on that point that was made about John Barnes which I was surprised to read. I think there may be people in here who are better qualified to comment on this than I am as I live in Dublin, but throughout the 80′s I spent a lot of time in Liverpool and rarely missed a game in those days. And as far as I recall I don’t remember a single person who wasn’t dead excited about us signing Barnes as well as Aldo and Beardsley. LB, I’m not sure if you are inferring that there was some kind of racism issue but if that’s the case I can honestly say that it must have totally passed me by because I certainly don’t recall anything of that nature but as I said, perhaps there are others who might shed some light on it.
Anyway, regarding Sly Sports I’m not saying that it is the root of all evil but for me it symbolises a lot of the things that are wrong in the game, a lot not all!
Regarding their dim-witted pundits and the brain-washing of supporters etc. Clearly the vast majority of us are intelligent enough to listen to what they say and to form our own opinions, but we are not talking about the vast majority of us, we are talking about the mindless minority that hang on their every word and swallow all of their hype. These are the idiots who ring into phone-in shows and chant the kind of nonsense we heard on Saturday. In my opinion.
Regarding our younger supporters, I think the vast majority of them are absolutely brilliant but again we aren’t talking about the vast majority here, we are talking about the minority of idiots. Incidentally, I would also make the same point about some of our older supporters as well, the vast majority are brilliant but I knew quite a few fans a lot older than I am who are right knob-heads! When I was a kid it was a lot easier to be a Reds fan because we were winning everything. The younger fans of today haven’t had it so good but they have loyally stuck by the team and I admire them for it, but again my points are about the minority of idiots.
Andy, regarding my reference to “Johnny-come-latelys” let me explain my logic and again this is just my personal opinion. Consider the crap you heard coming from the crowd in Saturday’s game. In my view you wouldn’t have heard that from Reds fans at Anfield 15 years ago, 10 years ago or even 5 years ago. I would agree that it may have been creeping in over the last few years but what we heard on Saturday is a relatively recent development (nit-pickers take note, I’ve used the word “relatively”). So in my view, if the fans who were around 15 years, 10 years and even 5 years ago didn’t indulge in that kind of crap, then we either believe that they have decided to radically alter their behaviour or, more likely in my view, this kind of behaviour is being brought in by some (nit-pickers take note, I’ve used the word “some”)of our Johnny-come lately’s. Now don’t get me wrong, I’m sure there were a few older voices among them as well, but for the most part I think match-going football fans tend to be creatures of habit who’s behaviour doesn’t generally deviate too much, so I’m sticking with my JCL theory. As for that Tommy Smith article somebody put up a link to, the man’s a Red Legend and I have a lot of respect for him, but that doesn’t mean he can’t be wrong and I believe he is totally wrong in this instance.
Anyway that’s my view, I’m sure there was some other stuff I wanted to comment on but I can’t remember what it was so I’ll leave it there and I’ll get started on a fresh blog on the morrow. Toddle Pip.

LB, I think you are slightly missing the point. I do not think there is anything wrong in the fans discussing which player is not fit for liverpool and which are, and that sort of thing as long as it is done at the appropriate time, which was my whole point. I thought Riera was shit (based on his Espanyol performances and I am still not convinced) and I personally don’t get what is so good with Aurelio. And don’t start me on Peanut. But I have always put that out of my mind during a match. I don’t think anyone has to support their team or manager blindly, but I also do not think it is the Liverpool way to express such feelings or thoughts during a game. I believe that is the point that people like FS, Keith or me are trying to make.

And I know this is going to hurt Gerry, but as a super player tommy was, he was always a bit bonkers, and I never respected his opinions. Anytime he spoke, he came across as someone with a bit of a chip-on-me-shoulder type. I only respected his game. FS probably got it spot on. I remember him saying that he was one of those fellas that was nice to adore from a distance but you wouldn’t want to know him personally.

Oh ijust read your post, gerry.

Well put Gerry and ditto Hyde. I was around in London when Rush was sold to Juve and we brought in Barnes and Beardsley and I cannot remember anybody that was a Liverpool supporter having a bad word to say about him or who was not excited at the prospect. The joke going around back than was his nickname was tarmac, the black Steve Highway. That’s how highly he was viewed. Even the Juve president came out and said it looks like Liverpool spent our money better than we did (3 mill for Rush and Beardsley cost 1.8 and Barns 900 000 or the other way round)

Maybe you are referring to the England supporters that always said he never reproduced his Liverpool form for England, the same accusation leveled at Dalgelish and Sourness? Anyway there will always be bigots, but LB two wrongs don’t make a right. If you witnessed that, then it was very wrong then as it is very wrong now.

I want to put this to bed, agree to disagree or each to his own is bullshit, there can be no fudging of the issue, if anybody condones booing Rafa or thinks they have the right to do so, via a 21 year old because he has the audacity as the Manager to pick him over certain fans first choice and think this will benefit the team is an idiot and a dickhead. Especially when we are sitting top of the log and through to the knockout stages of the CL. Was Rafa right? I don’t know I would have preferred to see Alonso on the pitch but I did not have all the facts to support that choice, but saying that I would get behind the team and support them to the best of my ability and trust that Rafa, as he has on more occasions than not, has got the choice right.

Bahvster… I commend you on moving in the right direction of this debate of the value of a “fan”. Defining the avenues and time where a fan can vent his frustrations is key. I would suggest, should any fan feel that the stadium is the only ground they can show their dissatisfaction, to do so at least at the most appropriate time (I am suggesting after a game)

While most of what I have read in here are debating and giving out their own opinions on how a true fan… more specifically a LFC fan would/should/have behave during games, few are like FS who have come out and state clearly what they(we as true fans) would actually DO when confronted with such a fan.
If 1) ONE fan boos,
if 2) 10 fans boo,
if 3) 100 fans boos ( i am not going any further than this ),
what would you do?

Like Gerry pointed out and I do agree that this “booing” fans are but a minority. While the minority “boo”s, what are the MAJORITY doing??? For all the intelligent fans gathered here every day posting comments, I am sure we could come up with a solution to settle this.

This is not to say we have not got any avenues to vent our frustrations. Neither is this to say the younger generation may have yet to learn the liverpool way. I am just saying, when one of our own makes a mistake, and in our opinion/experience is not following the liverpool way, how do we not allow the poor lost soul to NOT WALK ALONE.?

YNWA

I’m very very very hungover. So, I can’t catch up with the comments. But I do want to say this…. yesterday, when I was out on the ale, Our Kid was completely out of order. He kicked off on some Scottish fella who I think is an alright lad. Our Kid was in the wrong. It wasn’t a big proper kick off, just an argument. Our Silverback was actually doing me head in, but I backed him

Alright guys,

Had a ball at anfield we were spoiled in the champion club swete.Free food and more importantly free drink!

I met Ian Callaghan he was the master of ceramonies in the swete.He`s a top man,very approachable and had no problem standing in for a couple of photos.
He was the only ex player in there.

We got seats in the lower centenary right on the halfway line so we were pleased with that.The game itself wasn`t great but its qualification all the same.The lad with me who is a kid brother of my buddy,hadn`t been to anfield before so he was well chuffed.

Gerry,i got photo`s so ill get my buddy to upload them and e-mail them to me then i`ll pass them on to you.

Thanks again to lurgan i won`t forget buddy.

About the kind of fans we have going to Anfield,well some aren`t even red fans.After the game we went back into the swete for a drink and got talking to two guys from london.One followed chelsea and the other followed the manc.Talking to these guys they obviously only go to games where their company gets them freebees.I got the feeling if the scum or the chavs went bust tomorrow,they`d be happy enough to support the arse.The lad with me couldn`t understand why they would come to Anfield and he got pretty freaked out when the two shits said they came for the free food and drink as guests.I tried to tell the lad with me that these swetes are 90% filled with people in suits who don`t give a monkeys bout football.It`s just the way the game has sadly gone.

Aparently the new anfield’s designs are for 10,000 capacity for corporates, which is an 7,000 increase…
What a great memories for the lad, at least he’ll understand the priviledge to go to Anfield…

Hmmm, It seems Dossena will be as good as Evra, or so his agent says. I hope we get better cover this January window, we’ll need a decent LB even if Dossena is the new Evra…

A quick tuppence worth. Let’s ask the question – are the fans who boo Rafa’s decision(s) (if you boo Lucas, you’re booing Rafa) the same fans who kicked up an almighty fuss when Klinsmann was touted for the job? Who knows? You can’t have it both ways.

Did they boo when the Lucas-for-Gerrard substitution against Everton last season led to our victory?

Here’s an idea, bring on Lucas for Dossena. Kidding!

Ahh Keithsa, classy as always, where to start where to start… Ya know Keithsa we’ve all got a good bang for our buck on this debate and done so for the most part in a respectful manner, all that is except for when you lower the bar with your intolerant insulting rhetoric.
You classify anyone who took an opposing stance to you on this debate (because apparently there is no fudging the issue) an idiot and a dickhead. Nice. In post 83 you are exhorting Gerry to ‘shoot him please’. Since there is no frame of reference in your plea and it was me who posted immediately before you (a contrarian view to your own no doubt), I’m gonna go out on a limb here and suggest it was me you wanted shot(!). Why Keithsa? Because I have a point of view which differs from yours? I think you missed your calling in life mate, you’d have gone over a treat in the third reich.
You mention in your last post that there will always be bigots, the irony of a statement like that coming from you going completely undetected of course. You should check out the meaning of that word Keith. Bigot: a person who does not tolerate the opinions of other people, source: The Oxford English dictionary, ninth edition.
Delicious irony or unadulterated hypocrisy? You decide Keith, maybe if you you use your oft mentioned ‘mirror’ to take a look at yourself you might discover that it is you with the dick on your forehead and not those who have a differing opinion to your own.

Alrighty then, now that I’ve got that off my chest I’ll say what I came into say. My heart goes out to Nando, the guy just cant catch a break. We need him back asap and we need Robbie to step up to the plate bigstyle now. Also I think this is the right time for Rafa to give Babel a run up top with Robbie. This is a great oppurtunity for them both, I hope they take it. I’d also like to see Insua given a run in the side too if aurelios injury is gonna keep him out for long. Aside from one good block on wednesday night Dossena charged around the place again highlighting what aliability he is for a title challenging team. Insua played the final couple of games for us last season and surely did enough to illustrate he is more competent than Dossena. Good to see our skipper reitrate our seasons mission statement this morning too. And congrats on ten years at the top lad, what would we have done without you? Heres to ten more…..

Diggerno.10 – I’m sure Keith will respond for himself , but I assumed that the “shoot him please” comment was referring to the You Tube clip I had posted earlier.

Dossena put Riera through on goal, took the ball as Marseille was about to pull the trigger on edge of box, as well as that good block which made up for the earlier errors. But i do think he needs to lose some weight ,he reminds me of Voronin. Lets hope with a little more match time he settles in to the Prem pace .

Digger, regardig Insua, it will all come down to whether Rafa thinks he’s ready or not. I would like to see him being given a go, as Dossena is not filling anyone with confidence. I think there is a strong chance that our Italian left back will be working for a new employer come the start of February.

Stevie G is a great lad, and I too am keeping my fingers crosssed that he has a good few seasons left yet.

I was pleased to hear Babel say that although he was frustrated by his lack of first team activity at Anfield, he was not looking to leave the club. This is good to hear, and I would like to see him being given a starting place against West Ham on Monday night.

If that is the case as Gerry points out in 114 then mea culpa. My apologies Keithsa if you were refering to something else, my mistake. An unfortunate coincidence, you must admit, that it occured immediately after my post given the butting of heads we’ve been going through over the last couple of blogs! But as I say, mea culpa, my bad. However, I do stand by the rest of my post.
Yeah steve, would love to see insua given the nod ahead of dossena and especially hope that rafa seizes this opportunity (disaster?) to give babel a run upfront with keane.

I watched Insua a couple of times with the reserves and, although he doesn’t stand out, he is quite assured in his position. He looks to me like he could benefit from stepping up a level. You can reach a point in the reserves where you can stagnate without superior players and impetus pushing you. He should deffo be up to against (wife-beaters)Vest Ham and PSV. It seems less of a gamble to play someone with undoubted talent who is coming up trying to prove he’s at the next level, than someone who needs to pick himself up from bad games when it’s not that apparent he has the mental strenght.

Rome77- You are right, Dossena did those things, but they are the least expected of him. He was a spectator when their winger breezed past him. Even Riera and Kuyt was back helping him. Dossena isn’t total rubbish, but he ain’t good enough. Don’t forget, we never heard of this bloke before, and he’s 27. Only making his debut for Italy late on. Italy have not been blessed in that position since since Maldini retired. Sure Zambrotta is there, but he is continually switched from left to right and winger and left-back. That must be how he got the chance. I’ll cheer him in the red shirt, but he’s a lemon.

I read Timmy’s comment, I’m not being funny. I’m just too hungover to read them all. But I’m glad Timmy got to see it with his own eyes. It’s a fucking disgrace and so is anyone who justifies it.

I really think that Arsenal will get a point at Chelsea on Sunday, and that City will beat United.

If this is the case, we can put the below par performance against Fulham behind us, and concentrate on beating West Ham on Monday.

Chelsea didn’t look that good in Bordeaux from what I could tell, and have so far only won 3 of their home prem games, with their seven straight wins on the road keeping them on top. I’m almost glad this match is at the Bridge and not the Emirates!

I think we have to really show we can cope without Torres now, I’ve heard varying reports that he could be out from anything from 2 weeks to six weeks. We shall see.

We did well when he was missing before, so there’s no reason why we can’t do so again, but (and I wish I had a pound for every time I’ve said this so far this season) now we really need Keane to start finding the onion bag on a more regular basis. Come on down Robbie, your time to shine has come!

As Gerry pointed out Digger I was referring to the Sky Sports add hyping the Prem, with reference to the blog and what we were discussing, not everything is about you.

Just one point concerning your tirade, I always find it funny when people call for respect when they are blatantly lacking any respect in their own actions. You can disrespect a Manager that has rebuilt Liverpool to something that closely resembles the glory years of the past, dragging us back to the summit despite all the obstacles that have been thrown at him, crassly condone the yobish behaviour as your right to do it. Then turn around and ask for respect when somebody pulls you up on your behaviour? How you cannot see that it will adversely affect the team boggles the mind. I did not pick you out personally as you know seem to be doing, but made an overall statement, but if the shoe fits wear it

On Liverpool TV Alan Kennedy, Tony Barret and a few very experienced men and stalwarts of the Kop and in all facets of the Liverpool way debated what has happened. Is it a coincidence that our away results are better than the home results? Our home results are the equal best in the league but the pressure being put on the team by the fans is adversely affecting the performance. Interviews with the players by Tony Barret have confirmed this, hence Carra coming out and asking for the fans to back them and to be patient. The universal comment and thread through the entire program was this has been creeping in over the last 4 to 5 years and it is not the Liverpool way. It is so bad that some season ticket holders prefer to go to the away games because of the negative atmosphere at the ground as the hardcore away supporters just gets behind the team regardless.

Your little third Reich quip was very classy and reminds me of poolshark and as for your bigot quip, well that is quite sad and pathetic and I won’t even lower myself to respond to it. I welcome differences of opinions, debating, arguing and many people on this site will attest to that. However what you advocate and stand bye and stand for is unacceptable in my book and has no place at Liverpool. What I can guarantee you is that the majority of the real Liverpool fans will agree with me as well.

You carry on booing, ridiculing and abusing the team and Manager and supporting the people who do just that in the misguided belief that, that will bring the best out of the team and help them reach greater heights, not forgetting we are at the top of the log where we haven’t been for a very long time, but don’t cry for respect when you quite plainly have no concept of it.

A mate of mine just phoned me. I was supposed to be meeting him and a few of the lads in Amsterdam. They bought the official package from Thomas Cook, including coach from Liverpool, ferry from Dover and match ticket. He just found out Cook’s has cancelled. He had to find out himself as Cook’s aren’t even phoning to tell the poeple who are booked with them. Oh the corporates are still going. It’s just the brand loyal knobheads like my mates who are getting fucked.

Oh but that’s alright. There’s millions of us. So who gives a fuck, eh?

Hi Timmy, I am glad to hear that you enjoyed yourself at the game and I am looking forward to seeing the photos.

For the West Ham game, I think that we should stick with Dossena for the time being. I seem to remember a certain Irish full back bought from Fulham did not pull up any trees in his first season and he was already a seasoned pro in the league. He didn’t do too badly after that.

Anyway, we can always play Insua away to PSV. This way he will have no pressure on him, relatively speaking.

Can’t really see Babel playing up front since we will have to play a 4-4-2, leaving the full-backs more exposed. My money is on a 4-5-1 with Keane leading the line but maybe this could be the game that we see the 3-5-2 formation for the first time?

I think that I have just contradicted myself there . Basically who knows what team/formation Rafa will pick.

Haha, yeap it’d be a wise man who’d be able to pick rafas team, week after week!!!!!

Insua, and babel are definately going to be interesting players that are now in the mix…
We could play either babel or Kuyt up front, and have keane in the hole with SG on the right…

Keane just isn’t playing well enough to be the lone striker, I think he’s wasting too many opportunities to warrant that role… I suppose we shall soon see…

I wonder what sort of deal Real Madrid would do for Babel. I know we could definately do with their starting RB and I’d be more than happy having Aurellio and Arbeloa fighting for the LB position! Oh, and Dossena I suppose… So I wonder if Rafa would be keen on having Ramos as our RB, I know the rest of the Spanish lads would… What a shame we were too slow for Alves and Bosingwa…

there is no way in hell real would want to sell sergio ramos. they might want babel, but i dont think they want him so much that they would sell ramos to get him. who knows if the lad would want to come to liverpool anyway.

hes very young and talented, but i cant see it happening. for real to sell him, they would want 15-20 million for sure, given his age and the fact he is a full spanish international.

YNWA

moreover, the lad signed an 8 YEAR DEAL for real in only 2005, so he still has 5 years left on that contract…and they payed 20 million pounds for him. so he’s not gonna leave too easily.

Keithsa I wasnt calling for respect, I would hope its a given on this forum, it is from me.
And where did I disrespect the manager? Ya see Keith thats your problem right there, you equate questioning a managers decision or saying he made a mistake with disrespect. Thats not disrespect Keith, thats expressing an opinion or having a moan call it what you will but most importantly as a supporter its my right.
You claim I turn around and look for respect when somebody pulls me up for my behaviour, what behaviour is that Keith? I wasnt there! And I dont boo Rafa and I certainly dont abuse the man as you seem to think (love the imagination man!). Yes on occasion I’ve ridiculed some of his more infuriating decisions but Im certainly not this booing abuser of Rafa you portray in your comment. And i’m not an advocate of such behaviour as you suggest. If you read my posts closely over the last couple of blogs you’ll find what I said was I ‘sympathized’ with the fans and I ‘understood’ the reasoning behind it. I never advocated the behaviour and certainly if i was present I’d like to think I’d have had the gumption not to participate even though I understood the thinking behind it. In fact I said I agreed with FS in principle when he said pretty much what you’ve been saying. So you see Keithsa if you read the posts closely before saddling up your high horse and wading in with your holier than thou observations you might have seen that.
You say that you did not pick me out personally, that it was an overall statement (idiot an a dickhead) but come on Keith, really? Who’ve you been debating this issue with since Saturday? Come on mate, at the very least it was a thinly veiled jab and I think you know it. Please dont insult the little modicum of intelligence I have.
As for my bigot quip, well Keithsa it wasnt very difficult to come to that conclusion from simply reading your own words as pointed out above. But I’m not in here to play a game of GOTCHA!, so if you truly do welcome differences of opinion as you say, then dont classify those who espouse those different opinions as idiots and dickheads even when those opinions are, as you put it,’unacceptable in your book’. You see Keith that is the definition of someone who is NOT a bigot.
Look, I think the line between where Keithsa and I stand on this, is pretty well drawn in the sand. So in the interest of not letting Kopblog devolve into a pissing contest between the two of us and because I’m pretty sure ye’re all sick to fuck of reading it too(!), after Keithsa rightly has his opportunity to reply to the above, I’m letting it go. You’ve worn me out man!! I’m done! We’ve thrashed this one to fuck!!
And so with that in mind, genuinely look forward to reading your reply Keith and to (I’m sure) future debates, but its friday night and this thirsty mofo got some beers to drink, Good night and good luck……

Yeah, probably a 14mill plus Heinze would be more likely… Although I’m against us selling our young, up and comming players, unless Rafa feels Babel isn’t good enough…

Hola Lads,

Been offline again. Bloody internet was on the blink at home. SHOULD be all sorted now though. Have been reading most o the comments though at work, so keeping up to date abit.

Ramos to leave Real?? Dont make me laugh. No chance. Real are hardly a feeder club.
Id be happy enough to sell babel or a descent fee…although i dont think we’d make back the 11milion we paid for him.

I cant work out weather its good that we havent really been playing well this season and are still top o the EPL or weather its worrying that we still arent hitting top form. I guess its ok, as long as we start to hit some form. I’d like to see us steam roll a few teams now.

As far as the booing goes, im the first to put my hand up and say that i dont think Lucas is good enough and I’d be happy to be shot of him, but farkin hell, booing him is right out of order. the lad is red. enough said. its disrespectul to the lad, its disprespectul to the club, the badge and most o all to Rafa. Imagine lucas going home that night, he must have felt about 2 inches tall. shame on anyone who booed him.

anyway, the booing talk has been done to death in here, so i wont go on about it as its deinately been covered…and then some…just thought i’d put my two cents back in.

p.s. good to see ya back in here andy willard ya auld mooker! You still coming or a drink in Auckland in March Mate?? We moved into that new house now mate, so we definately got that spare room if ya want to crash. anyway, i’ll facebook u. hope the trip is going well mate.

YNWA

Tempers flying in here today
Good to see the showing of opinions
Maybe Fatty could step in like he did the other night

Good to have you back Aussie
Talking some sense there mate
Sold Lampard and made Kuyt me captain in the ‘Kopblog Fantasy League’ this week!!
Gonna make up some ground on ya
Did ya join the Kopblog fanclub on facebook?

Excited for the games this weekend and we’ll know what we have to do on Monday and hopefully go top of the league
Would like to see Babel get a start up front with Robbie, cause some troubles with his pace,get a goal or 2 and get his confidence going. Maybe it’s his time to shine and kick-start his promotion to 1st team regular
Over and out

http://kr.youtube.com/watch?v=V_VSD04Q6Kw

Great Skill from Gerrard for his 10 year avviversary

Digger I agree let’s put this to bed. Yes you and I where debating it however I think maybe you misread or jumped the gun. The emphasis should be “benefit the team”. The whole debate was centred on the fans behaviour at the game being the wrong venue to voice their disagreement. I have cut and pasted exactly what I said. Nowhere is this a personal attack on you. I don’t think I am known for thinly veiling anything if I have a go I will spell it out in no uncertain terms.

“if anybody condones booing Rafa or thinks they have the right to do so, via a 21 year old because he has the audacity as the Manager to pick him over certain fans first choice and think this will benefit the team is an idiot and a dickhead. “

You have just stated you do not condone this type of behaviour at the ground so I am a little bit lost why you had a go at me or took it as a personal attack on you?

I also said this earlier and have no problem people having a go, in the right forum, and don’t expect everybody to see things the same.

“LB this is the forum to vent, criticize, debate, disagree and argue as we have done many times in the past and will continue to do so. I am just dead against it at the game. “

and

“I stick up for Lucas because I think he will make it given time, a lot of people here don’t think so (probably the majority, FS included) and we will argue about it. However regardless of what we think we should all get behind the lad when he pulls on a red jersey because that is what is best for the team.”

Maybe you just saw red with the shoot him comment which was defiantly not aimed at you but at the Sky Sports add. So, as you said, let’s drop it and get on with the real task of disagreeing on the team, Rafa tactics, Rafa’s team selection, Rotation and whether LB is really 6’ 6 or just wears high heels.

By the way Gerry the call in from fans that I watched on Liverpool TV said there were a lot of 60 year olds in the main stand that were booing and calling for Alonso. He was the same fan that preferred to go to the away games because of the home atmosphere. Interesting, you would think they would know better.

Guys, I just met Roy Evans at Cobra Club in Kuala Lumpur tonight. Had too many drinks. Hic! So will tell you all that he said tomorrow when I am sober.
I know I said earlier that I will miss meeting him coz I will be in Mumbai. But with all the fighting going on, and the Pharmceutical Exhibition cancelled, I felt it was better I came back to KL.

Roy..he is just fabulous, I tell you. A real gentleman. Retired, but still rooting for us to win theLeague. He has a few comments which would be interting. It is 1.15am now, so I am going to watch the telly to see the results and off to bed.

Cheers, mates.

Fair enough keith, point taken mate. Knight you jammy bastard! Cant wait to hear about your chat with Roy, always wanted to meet him, what a guy and what a servant to lfc.

Digger, haha. Ya, Roy Evans was a great servant for LFC.
Great guy, a gentleman. Good fun to talk to and be photographed with him. OK, on to his comments:

Like all of us fans, he is happy we are in the current leading position, despite not playing at our best. The draw against Fulham last week being particularly frustrating. He says it is still early and hopes we can improve and win it this year.

Of all the current first team players he says only about 15 players can make it to win the Premiership.
No names were mentioned who these fifteen players were, go figure out yourselves. He says many on the bench are fringe players. This list includes Babel, who has clearly not been sharp at goal. Hmm. He has a point there. The worst player? Dossena. Hmmm, arguable, in my humble opinion. Nevertheless, Rafa had asked for patience. http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N162309081129-0842.htm

Who would he sell and buy in the January transfer window if he was not given any money? He would not say.

Football is not a science, Roy says. Which should be better: 4-3-3, 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1? There is no right way or wrong way. It all depends on the gaffer.

Comments on Senor Benitez? Roy thinks Rafa has done well.

What does he think of our academy? Roy says Rafa spends about Stg1 million each for 10 new young signings a year. OK, we won the Barclays Reserves Championship this year and was FA youth Cup winners in 2004-5 and 2005-6. But then none of these young signings are good enough to challenge the seniors and make the first team regularly: Insua, El Zhar, Pleissis, Ngog, to name those who had been fielded so far. Contrast that to Arsenal or West Ham, as some of you had observed in Kopblog.

He lives in Liverpool and has a holiday home in Spain. He still helps Toshack with the Wales team.

Any interest in getting back to management? NOoooooo! He is past sixty and thinks it is too demanding.He is retired.

Players of yesterday played for fun, says Roy. And they enjoy fellowship with opposing teammates. He said today, sadly, if you just touch a player during a game, he tumbles down, to get a free kick or get you book.

Roy says it is difficult being a commentator for Radio or TV. What has been said has been said by many others. He said what do we expect Alan Hansen to say after 20-30 programmes? In other words, do not take their words too seriously, like we all do.

Roy is out here promoting the Malaysia Masters Cup being held here in KL next week.
See http://www.mastersfootball.com/

Ian Rush, Jason McAteer, Stan Collymore, etc will be playing for Liverpool and Bryan Robson leading Man United team and Ray Palour playing for Arsenal. Barnes would be out here if not for the Jamaican team he is now coaching.
We fans are having dinner with the Liverpool legions and some of the others from Man United , Arsenal and Chelsea (Hasselbaink, Poyet) at the Cobra Club on Sat 6th Dec. Eat your hearts out, mates!

Roy was just marvelous, Digger. A gentleman, like I said. Here are some of his thoughts from last night’s chat with about 20 fans at the Cobra Club.

WE have done OK right now, up there with Chelsea. This is despite not firing on all cylinders yet. The last EPL game against Fulham was rather frustrating to watch. It is still early, so must not be carried away. However, we do have a chance this year and he hopes we will win the EPL trophy.

However, he is of the opinion that there are only about 15 top players who can be counted on to get that title. The others are just fringe players. Yes, that includes Babel. The worse player? Dossena. Check out how Rafa defends this thinking: http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N162309081129-0842.htm

What do we lack? Two wing backs. Our rear needs to be re-inforced. Was it a mistake to have sold Finnan? Possibly.

And how about our Academy, Roy? The academy has not been very effective so far. Rafa has been buying 10 players or so every year, each player costing Stg1 million. Sure, we won the Barclays Reserves National Champions and FA Youth Cup winners in 2005-6 and 2006-7. However, none have actually been able to hold their own in the first team. These include Insua, Plessis, El Zhar, Ngog. Contrast this with Arsenal and West Ham and you know what I mean.

Roy thinks Rafa has done a good job, nevertheless. He also thinks the Americans are twits and have no business in LFC. And that David Moores sold because he could get more money (Stg 8 million).

Will more Spanish players come in? Possibly , as Rafa knows these players better.

Roy is here to promote the Malaysia Masters Cup, where retired EPL players are featured. Ian Rush, McAteer, Collymore, Hasslebaink, Poyet, Palour, Sharp, Kancelskis. This will be palyed on 7th Dec.in Malaysia, just outside the capital Kuala Lumpur. The Liverpool Supporters Club Malaysia will be hosting a dinner at the Cobra Club on 6th Dec where we could meet Rushie and other former Liverpool players and also the others ex Man United, Arsenal and Chelsea. How about that, Digger?

Roy Evans, continued…
Any thoughts of going back into management, Roy? Naah. I am now into my sixties. It is too taxing, this modern game.
In the past, players and managers use to love the game for its’ sake. Now the stakes are much higher.

LFC cares more about TV rights and sponsership than its fans. Fans are important, don’t get that wrong. But the money comes in with TV and sponserships. Fans contribute only a small portion of the funds coming in.

Hmmmm, seems Roy is a fellow Kop Blogger! These points are what all debate week after week…
Two wing-backs would be very nice, but 1 is definately nesesary come Jan. Transfer window

My team for Monday

Pepe
Arbie Carra Agger Dossena
Kuyt Gerrard Alonso Riera
Keane Babbel

I hope Babel gets a run too keith. Seems an eternity since he played well in a game and scored some goals…

Preston in the cup,a good game for some of the young players to gain experience ,Lucas to score the winner?.

Sounds like like you had great chat with Roy Knight. The Cobra club is quite the magnet for ex-reds. I met Robbie Fowler and Macca briefly during the summer. They were playing in charity match downtown in N.Y. It was great meeting two of my boyhood heros and they couldent have been more accomodating to me and my mate. We couldent have been more starstruck! Got the pix and jersey and my Fowler bio signed. Asked where they were going for a few after the game, macca says ‘i dunno but you’ll hear us!’

What a great start to the day for us in NZ!

Arsenal have done us a big favour today

We MUST take advantage tomorrow against the Hammers.

Pity ManU didn’t slip up at Citeh, but chel$ki losing at home again has made my day.

Sorry I haven’t been in for a few days lads, and, I must be honest, I haven’t been reading the comments either.

I haven’t being been snotty. I have been working like fuck, and the few hours I’ve had free… I’ve been getting drunk. Well, it is crimbo, and I do have a huge family and, believe it or not, loads of friends.

But like I’ve said all along… it’s going to be a long strange season this one. Can’t be arsed going on about the others. Just take heart from the fact that the media have already written us off.

And like I’ve been saying all along… someone is going to get a good hiding somewhere along the line. West Ham tomorrow wouldn’t be a bad place to start.

Reina

Arbeloa
Carra/Agger
Dossena

Bennayoun
Gerrard/Xabi
Riera

Kuyt
Keane

Wrong again, no doubt, but onwards and upwards!

Bet… 3-0 win. Keane first goal… oh well, another fiver bites the dust.

PS… meant to say, it won’t be easy to take advantage of Chelsea’s cock up. And of course the Mancs are still sneakin up on the wings. So, a win by one goal, from a dead boring game, with the goal being scored in the last second, from a deflection of Kuyt’s Cauliflower ear will do me.

In fact, I would probably prefer that. But I know LFC are going to go out and smash someone soon. I won’t moan if it’s West Ham. But I’d rather have it at the end of the season.