A fantastic result in Madrid. Let’s keep it going against Boro tonight. Three points is imperative. We need to attack from the start and not let up. This is a really good opportunity to boost our goal difference against a very poor Boro.

Parry made some bad decisions in recent times and will not be missed by many who really care about the club. Good riddance!

Any news on who is taking over as CEO at the end of the season? I suppose it depends on who buys the club in July?

Gerry, I think your being a tad harsh. Yes he’s made some fuckups, or at least he’s the face the club puts behind the fuckups. However he’s not the one who sold the fucking club, Moores did, he’s the one with the cash, why does he escape all the shit, because he paid Parry’s wages so he gets the blame.
.
He should be like any other player leaving the club, thanks and all the best.
.
Ps don’t think this will cause Rafa to sign his contract today, he wants assurances over who owns the club. Rafa may have won a small battle here but he’s still thinking about his own position more than anything else. even his mate Guillem will tell you that.
.
I know I’ll cop some flak over this but he’s the face of the club, being paid as a dutifull employee, and thats it.

Gaz, if that’s your opinion your entitled to it, I’ve covered mine in the blog. But in relation to Moores, no one forgets his role in these things and he certainly hasn’t escaped any of the shit on this blog. I’ve covered him several times before but on this occasion the focus was obviously on Parry given today’s news.

Gerry and Gaz – I see Parry a bit like I see George W Bush… a well-meaning idiot. I’m glad he’s gone, and now look forward to the future hoping for the best. But it just leaves me with 2 main concerns:

1) Have we got our Obama lined up to bring us into a positive new world of proper running of the club? The worry is that the Americans still know nothing about football, and it will be difficult to find a quality CEO given that the person coming in will know that there is a very good chance the club will have new ownership soon. The next deadline for the debts will come… and then what? Nobody wants a stop-gap short-term CEO, we want someone who will be there for the long haul.

2) I believe Parry was one of the only board members standing in the way of the owners trying to put the full amount of debt onto the club itself – from memory, possibly with power of veto? The next CEO could very well be a yes-man to the owners, so will there be anything to stop them refinancing the entire debt onto the club now?

Now the question is, will Rafa and Agger and Kuyt’s contracts be sorted out sooner or later now that the CEO is on the way out? Will Rafa want to wait for the new CEO to be appointed, or just be happy in getting the right conditions written into the contract? And by the time we actually get someone appointed to the role, will it be too late to hold onto the likes of Agger or will he already be wooed to AC Milan? OK that was more than 1 question. But I’m very keen to hear the answers.

Bang on Ger on both counts. Great result and performance in Madrid and I agree on Parrys departure. I too have no doubt his resignation was forced by Rafas contract negotiations. Just too coincidental that its announced now in mid-season the week after Rafa rejects a 5th contract and at the end of a week where rumour after rumour had Rafa walking away. Whatever happened behind the scenes at Anfield this wk we may never truly know but one thing is for sure; Rafa won. Very interesting summer ahead indeed.

Spot on Gerrry my sentiments exactly and while I hold Moors directly accountable as well, he is History and already out where as Parry still has a major influence on things and the sooner the better as far as I am concerned.

The only thing I disagree with you is on your line-up. Masch had his best game of the season, he is in his element breaking up and stopping the opposition and against strong teams he is a must in the holding role. As good ad he is in that role he offers very little going forward against the weaker sides that defend. I would like us to take more of a gamble and play Lucas with Alonso in the middle with Benny in the hole, Babbel up front Kuyt on the right and, Reira or El Zhar on the left.

Digger just a quick hit about your no excuses next year with Parry gone, say Rafa gets 20 mill for transfers, that will still puts us below all our major competitors and also mid table teams. Newcastle, Sunderland, Spurs, West Ham will all probably out spend us, not to mention, Chelsea, Man City and ManU, even Arsenal are know throwing a bit of money about. I still expect us to beat most of them but can you realistically say it would be Rafa’s fault if we come up short (not that I think it’s a given and we do not have a very good shot as the team will be stronger and more settled next year) if ManU (they will spend their usual 50 to 70 mill) or Chelsea (they will spend big) or even Arsenal end up pipping us?

All it takes is a couple of key injuries (Gerrard, Alonso and Torres) at the crucial times to put us under pressure again because of our lack of quality depth. It will still take sometime for our youngsters to come through and gain the experience needed despite all their talent. A little bit harsh on the no excuse front. I also still firmly believe we are not yet out of it this year but Arsenal and Chelsea will come back very strongly next year. Let’s hope we do get the owners we deserve and can compete on all fronts or at least keep pace from a financial perspective and not fall further behind.

The comment about the Yanks being able to lump the debt on the club is not a major concern. The loan will be called in and they should be forced to sell way or the other, were it is sitting should be irrelevant.

We’re only a couple of players away Keith. I think our budget will be closer to 30mil, similar enough to last yr, and should be enough to secure priority no. 1 – a top quality right winger. I guess thats what I mean when I say no more excuses. Its Rafas ball now, lets see what he does with it.

That’s quite a comment Keith – “the Yanks being able to lump the debt on the club is not a major concern. The loan will be called in and they should be forced to sell way or the other, were it is sitting should be irrelevant.”

I admire your positive thinking, but can’t agree with you that the club being laden with hundreds of millions of pounds of debt is not a major concern.

Gerry, well timed blog. Hilarious. You are obviously a cross between Graucho Marx and Bob Hope.

Great that Rafa once again have shown that he is the tactical master in Europe, against the very best even in their home turf.

However, we he must now carry out victory after victory in the League games as well. Mathematically it is still possible to win the League. But like you said, it is a slim chance.
The Boro game is a must win. I agree with Keith that we must be a bit more daring-do with mediocre teams and add more fire power. The addition of Babel and El Zhar to replace Reira and Mascherano could be our answer in this game.

As for Prick Parry, let’s just bid adios to him. Ebough has been said in previous blogs. What we now need is a good marketeer and action oriented CEO.

Cheers, mates.

Andy, if the loan is called in the owners will have to sell the club. Or find a bank that’s willing to lend over £350m. That’s highly unlikely given banks ain’t even lending cash to each other. Lumping the entire debt onto the club is no longer an option in todays banking climate. Companies a lot bigger than Liverpool football club have tried to get loans leveraged against the company itself and been told “sorry, thats not possible”.

LB – I guess everything is OK then… so in your scenario, where the loan does get called in (is that a given?), we just wait for the rich Arabs to come in and buy us? I make no such assumptions – in the current climate we are all so aware of, the number of potential buyers out there is probably at it’s lowest point ever.

So, when the owners can’t find buyers, I see 2 scenarios. One, the banks allow them to refinance the entire debt against the club, or 2 – well you tell me what happens when loans get called in and the owners can’t pay… and when half that debt is currently on the club already?

Andy, I’m not saying everything will be hunky dory. What I am saying is that I think its very unlikely the american owners will be able to get another loan even if they want to secure the entirety of it onto the club. The other way I can see them finding the money is to sell the club. If there are no buyers then the bank will likely seize the club and auction it to the highest bidder. That’s what happens when you can’t pay your mortgage.

Whats a better scenario? RBS (75% owned by UK government) owning Liverpool FC or the 2 cowboys? Who’d be more likely to have the club’s best interest at heart?

Haha come on LB… what is RBS’ first priority? I’ll give you a clue and it is the same as their 2nd, 3rd and 4th priorities. Money. Now I agree that isn’t so far from the cowboys’ priorities – but I ask you – who is more likely to sell Fernando Torres to Man City for 50mill when they come knocking next summer?

I know it is trying to pick the lesser of two evils, and I hope it doesn’t come to that. But if you seriously look at the possible chain of events that would need to happen for that scenario to come about… it really isn’t that big of a step from where we are, is it?

Our staring 11, interesting.

Reina, Aurelio, Hyypia, Skrtel, Carragher, Alonso, Gerrard, Babel, Mascherano, El Zhar, Kuyt.

Subs: Cavalieri, Dossena, Riera, Benayoun, Lucas, Ngog, Darby.

Lucas and Benny on the bench… no Insua..

I like that line-up Ger. Benny deserves a break, been in super form lately. Clearly Rafa, like us, feels Riera needs a break too but for the opposite reason, he’s been pants since the Preston game! Only concern is obviously Stevie but you’d think he’s experienced enough at this stage of his career to know if he’s ready or not. Enjoy lads, my moneys on a 2-0 win.

Gerry it’s amazing how easily our team can look “make-shift”. An injury to Torres is about enough to make us look like we are “making do”.

That isn’t a complaint about the selection though,j ust a comment on how different we look without Torres and resting 1 or 2 others.

Riera was injured from the Real match..

Darby, i felt would be a better Right back than Carra going forward as Carra would be better off partnering Ninja (or Hyypia to rest Ninja) in the centre.

Just my feelings

the last time we won at Riverside is 2002….fingers crossed

Skeat, it’s Skrtel at right-back not Carra. Interesting…

how come we play Skrtel at Right back instead of Darby?

Just to save a substitution? Hmm…

Skeat, our right-back is up against Boro’s best player (Downing) remember

Or…3-5-2 Perhaps

————–Reina————–
—Skrtel—-Hyypia—-Carra—-
El Zhar—-Alonso—-monster—Aurelio-
—————Gerrard———
———–Kuyt—-babel———

Chavs scored through Terry

1-0 Boro.Own Goal!!!!!! Alonso..

Craps! 0-1

OG alonso

i cant believe we are losing in this match…what a bogus thing to happen

Parry can get a job @ a bank-they love hiring buffoons.At this rate, we will be lucky to finish second in the prem.Decent team selection from Rafa.We need to play further up the pitch.

OMG OMG but we still have time….
Draw = Title challenge basically over
Lose = falls to 3rd place, provided a win by the Chavs

Skrtel is crap at Right back…Why not play Carra instead? too many mistakes.

Babel’s touches also very very poor. Lost count of how many times he lost control of the ball. Sigh.

Settle down lads, it’s only half time. Unlucky though. One suspects we’d have at least 1 goal on the board now from our early play if Kuyt was the skilful forward type rather than… you know what I mean.

Gerrard doesn’t look right to me. He’s either being exceedingly careful with that hamstring – which means he isn’t a great deal of use – or he isn’t ready. I haven’t seen him break into a run yet, nor chase to win the ball back. He is doing a lot of standing around and walking though.

We don’t exactly have a lot of goals on the bench, so this lot need to sort something out in the 2nd half. Benayoun is about the only worthwhile attacking option to bring on.

It’s amazing how many times we throw a lifeline to these struggling sides when we play them. I’m not sure if its bad luck or just bad play. We should be battering these clowns. They have only one decent player and he’s tearing us apart surely Carra has to be moved to right back in the second half. I think their defence is really dodgy so we got to put them under more pressure in the final third and I think they’ll make mistakes. COME ON LADS!!!

Gerrard deffo doesn’t look fit.He’s a passenger right now.
Bring Benny Onion on to start the second half.
Switch Carra to right back and bring Ninja into the middle.
Kuyt’s first touch: ” DIRE”

We need Benayoun now more than ever. Our attack has looked a bit pedestrian since the OG.

I am in facebook.The cry for Rafa’s head has begun.

note to el zhar…tuncay just gave an exhibition on how to kick a ball in the net when you are in front of the goal with a pass to the 6 yard box.

2-0

Game over….

2-0 Boro.
Well done lads..

f***ing middlesborough!!!! they havent score in a millenium and we give up two goals in 60 minutes.

yeah – racist roger hunt. disgrace to the name. i suppose that its rafa’s fault that both el zhar and kuyt have missed sitters from 6 yards. that makes sense right?

Please sub someone…. Why do we always have to wait till 70th minute for a substitution.

Sir Roger Hunt AKA kopking…,

Its disrespectful to call Rafa 4 eyed spanish waiter.

ps: I am no bully. just stating the fact

eggnog for El Zhar….
Why leave Babel on the field…Benny~ Benny~

Carra Sub-ed for Benayoun….

Nearly 3-0 down, good save from Reina…whats with our defense today?

Sir R. Hunt,

I supposed this is Rafa’s fault as well

hunt…how can you explain the sitters we have missed. that is not rafa’s fault.

Gerrard off as well….

Lucas cut his hair!

well, this means that we concede defeat.
I think its safe to say that game over and title challenge officially over. No way Scum could let the lead overturned. Rather, we are facing the fight for 2nd, 3rd, 4th place with Chavs and Villa..

On our current premier league form…

We would be lucky to stay 4th (Everton, Arsenal catching up as well).

I don’t see anyway we could score 2 or 3 in the last 10 minutes

we have missed so many chances. el zhar has missed two (one in each half)…kuyt missed a sitter…kuyt missed another chance in the second. at this point we are playing in shambles. the defense looks shocking. there is no desire.

its the 80th minute and we are sending long balls from 30 yards with two players in the box.

wow…this is painful to watch

we lost to Spurs (they were bottom at that time)
we lost to Boro (they are second from bottom at this time)

Its not our god given rights for all opponent to lie down for us to f**k them. This is only our second defeat of the season..

Ps:
Wigan just equalised through Olivier Kapo..
Arsenal still goalless
So we will stay second if these scores stayed the same till full time

Sir roger hunt,
You should change your name to Sir Duncan Edwards

SRH – any professional player can finish the chances kuyt and el zhar had in the second half. it could have been me, FFS. those going in…it would have been 2-1 at the time…

Absolutely shambolic. We can kiss the PL title goodbye now. How can we beat an inform team like Real Madrid and then lose to Middlesborough?

Chelsea 2-1.

Win-less in 14 beaten defeat-less in 15. Well, the tales of two Liverpools…

SRH,
“I wouldnt give Benitez the opportunity of adding another Euro cup to his cv at our expense”
I really don’t understand your point here. So, you rather Rafa leaves the club rather than have him win an European cup for us?

Gerry,
Where are you?

SRH – you can change your name from kopking, to sir roger hunt, to brainless twat… it doesnt make a difference. you always be an ignorant racist.

Chavs scored thru fat lamp..
looks like we would be 3rd now..

0-0 arsenal fulham.

3rd it is. very very disappointing. worst performance from the squad since marseille in the CL a year and a half ago.

The only blame I can give Rafa really is that players have been incredibly poor.They had very good chances and missed!

Don’t believe just saw that game. What a shocking performance!!!! Am always one to support the team and the manager but what the fuck just happened? Can’t think of ONE player who played any good. Disgraceful performance specially in such an important game. Pity.

YNWA

Andy..stick to commenting on Football, you know nothing about American Politics.
Obama, a Positive new World?
Socialism has never worked anywhere it’s been tried.

gerrard played well in the second half. benayoun did well. reina did well.

babel was poor, very poor. he’s not giving himself any benefit of the doubt for not playing with a performance like that. el zhar played well despite his defending and finishing…

oh well. i’m just depressed. its so shocking. granted, we must look back to the opposite fixture in the fall. in truth, we should have lost or drawn that game. tuncay missed a sitter, we were poor till the last 10 minutes…carra had a hugely deflected goal, then gerrard got a winner in stoppage time. very fortunate.

boro has a thing for raising their game against good opposition…which goes well with our inexplicable ability to lower our game against weaker opposition. thats the confusing reality. but then football is a world where someone like john o’shea can have a bigger medal collection than jamie carragher. go figure.

lets keep our heads high. one day, one match. this is the longest title run we’ve had in many a year

YNWA

Well lads
Shitty day I must say
but we’ll walk on through the wind AND the rain!

Knight I hope you have a few extra with Norm and the lads in the Cobra to numb the pain

Sir Roger Hunt seen as you take the time to disrespect Rafa at every turn I’ll take the time to say that while you are welcome to your opinion you are also welcome to shove your racist opinion up your arse!! thats all I’ll say to you, I hope you enjoyed Intanbul and competing with the top teams every year

lads I won’t admit defeat until it’s mathematically impossible like I said before wind AND rain.

We fucked up today and we’re a bit farcical (albeit unlucky) but that’s the craic
Keep the faith and if you’ve lost all hope remember there’s always next year
We don’t just support our team we love all things Liverpool (something I didn’t realize until I went to Malaysia)
So keep the heads up, have an extra beer or 2, sleep it off,get up tomorrow with new fight for a new day and chill the fuck out!!
Over and out

Sir Roger Hunt – rhyming slang for “cunt” obviously… at least you aren’t fooling yourself either. It is such a pity I can’t see you in person right now because your racism and abuse would have earnt you a Liverpool kiss by now.

We all saw it was a poor game and yes of course the title is gone now. It was never “our’s” though, we were always just hoping the lack of depth in our squad wouldn’t shine through. But when Torres spends most of the season injured and Gerrard tries to play injured today and fails, things didn’t work out. C’est la vie.

P.S. Lads am I the only one who doesn’t know that the fuck calling Rafa a waiter means?

SRH,

I am not blind.
Our premiership form has been dismal for the last two matches.
perhaps if you could refrain yourself from using degradatory words, your points could be better accepted for most of us here. We would be please to discuss with you if you could stop calling names.

Riverside is our boogey stadium for many years now (haven’t won there for 7 years now.) and we are pissed poor today.

I agreed with Alec that this is our longest title challenge in years under Rafa…

Redscouse, just saw your comment – I will leave politics out of it from now on (I never really meant to bring it in seriously) – but you did make me laugh. Don’t tell me what I know and don’t know about something though mate, you don’t know me.

Andy,

Whats a liverpool kiss?

SHR-Dude the only ‘gutter language Ive heard today came out of your arse!!
over and out

Like everyone else, I’m hugely frustrated by Liverpool’s inability to string together a series of victories.

It’s almost as though they collectively decide, after a good performances that they should be allowed a crap performance. The “Hey, we’ve got some good wins in a row now, let’s relax for a while.” mentality is seeing Liverpool, once again, snatch defeat from the jaws of victory in the league.

I’m not sure sacking Rafa is the answer really. The truth is that we haven’t had the financial muscle to compete with Man Utd and Chelsea for the title for a while now, and while they bring in young talents like Nani and Anderson without batting an eyelid, we have to scour for basement offers in the shape of Ngog.

Surely we need to have new owners or more cash injection, or we won’t be in contention for the title for many more seasons.

SRH,

1) What part of our game today merits that description please?

The fact that they park lots of men behind the ball and rely on counter attacks. we were very unlucky for the first OG. We were caught by their counter attacks for the second.

2) PATHETIC.

Yes, you are..

Skeat – “Liverpool kiss” is a headbutt… language from the old days, my scouse Grandad (former SAS) tought me that

Thanks Andy.

All – off to bed – apologies for my poor language a moment ago, but SRH’s racism/abuse got my goat. Buenos noches amigos.

Slan leat Andy lad

I think the less said about that game the better. Wow….just wow…

SRH – “That Spanish waiter has survived as manager with us on the merits of the 2005 Euro Cup Final, jack shit since then Im afraid.”

I would have to disagree with you on that. It wasn’t as though Liverpool were flying before Rafa came in – they were struggling both in the league and in Europe under Houllier. Now, Liverpool continues to be inconsistent in the league, but in Europe, they are unnaturally strong contenders in the Champions League, given the quality of the squad.

It’s easy to call for his head, but if indeed the owners do give Rafa the sack, the new manager will have big shoes to fill. With the possible exception of Jose Mourinho, I can’t see anyone else who can do equally well, or surpass what Rafa has done.

I can’t see Mourinho doing better without the cash he had at Chelsea..

..plus we have beaten their Inter previous season. I really can’t see him faring better than Rafa..

Andy your right I don’t know you, and I apologise
for the comment.
It’s very trying times here in the USA right now.
Watching everything you have worked for turn to crap.
Then to watch that Performance by Liverpool today
just makes your blood boil.

something is not right in the dressing room, you see it by the body language of the players on the field.

I think Gerrard has injured himself again….thus making him unavailable for the Sunderland game.

SRH..
for christ sake…stop it

Skeat, I agree that it’s debatable whether Mourinho could do as well at Chelsea without the mountains of cash that he was given.

But it should be remembered that Mourinho was doing a great job before he went to Chelsea and is doing a great job after he left Chelsea. He may be an arrogant jerk, but he is a winner. I mean, heck, look where Chelsea is without him!

I’m not saying that Liverpool should get him. I’m simply suggesting that there are few managers of Rafa’s quality, and he will not be easy to replace if he’s gone.

Hi Donal. Yeah, sitting next to Norm at the Cobra with 40 other lads and lasses. No fun. Just stunned that we missed so many opportunities.

Donal, I agree with you and the others about SRH. He is crap. He is a cunt of the Nth degree. He is a Kopking. Sir Gerry (now, that’s the real Sir), please take him off this site. He talks more like a Manure fan. I think he is not an LFC fan his language disrespects this blog and pollutes the place.

Go support Everton then..

Good riddance.

and good night from Shanghai

Cheers Knight you gent
say hi to Norm and the lads and hopefully bye to Sir Roger of the shit talking Kopbloggers
Really…….take this shite out
over and out

SRH,
We are all Liverpool fans from across the world
So chill the fucking beans
As an Irishman with an American wife I got treated as royalty in Malaysia when I went there recently
Why………..cause I’m a liverpool fan and we really never walk alone when we are open.
So It doesn’t matter if you’ve had a season ticket for the last 60 years or your a dude in Malaysia.
The passion and love breeds the same and the welcome is always scouse.
But at the end of the day a wanker IS a wanker so enjoy your digits tonight
over and out

SRH,

as I mentioned, people would accept your arguments or at least chat with you patiently if you could refrain yourself using rude , racist degradatory remarks…

donal,

LOL… btw, I am a Malaysian staying in Shanghai. Can’t say the same about Reds in Shanghai..haha… Shanghai is Scum land..

Fuck bro I was there 2 months ago(me 3rd time)
couldnt enjoy it though it was colder than the outside of an igloo!!

haha…
It is still cold here..4~6 celcius

ps:
I am trying very hard to ignore a pest here. bear with me until gerry remove him from the blog with a pesticide.

Yeah Sir Roger Classy as always
Keep talking shit bro I couldn’t give a shit
Talking about me Ma is a bit fucked (she’s an absolute saint the doesn’t warrant recognition from a prick like you)

Knight is a gent which I suppose you will never understand what that means

seriously support the Harlem globe trotters and take your bile with you
over and out

I hear ya Skeat
Its -1 here in Seoul but you can be sure that in Petaling Jaya it’s hot as shit
over and out

Roger
did you expect a win in 2005 shitballs?
over and out

Kopking you say you’ve had a season ticket for 30 years,
have you f*ck you scum loving c*nt your so full of sh*t you
have to vomit to have a sh*t .Basically your a n*b and probably
a kiddy fiddler. f*ck off back to red cafe you nonce .
YNWA except you’ll always walk alone especially near swings in park.

Sir Roger, it’s your bedside manner that makes it hard for you to be taken seriously. Instead of just typing out “fat Spanish waiter, cunt and wanker” over and over, why don’t you come up with some analysis, or alternatives, or who our manager should be. The forums are better suited to just using bad language all the time. And stop insulting other posters in here, even if they insult you first. Be the bigger man, and respect the other posters. And the last comment(#103), “fascist scum” is way out of order mate. Don’t you think??! Be nice.

Anyway, as I’ve said before, it’s not just today or the Man City game that has us out of the title race, it’s indifferent form all season. I’ve vented enough for this season already. I did think that leaving out Benny was daft, considering his form of late. Babel, is not even Prem standard, nevermind LFC standard. He is so one-footed it’s gone beyond a joke. You can actually see with embarrassing regularity that he has to get onto his right foot. He should be gone in the Summer. I’m not a Kuyt apologist, and today he gave me no reason to change my mind. ElZhar was due a spin, but I’m not sure if that is his best position. Gerrard didn’t look fit at all, and I would have subbed him way earlier. Our general play today was no different to other matches earlier in the season when we were getting away with bad performances. Villa away was a shocker. As a football fan, and if I was to be neutral about things, (which I’m not) I wouldn’t want a team who played as bad as us to win the league. It would be a football crime if we did. There is still the Liverpool Way of doing things, and we’re not doing it. Ah well, we’ll have to wait for No.19 a little bit longer.

SRH,

So… What acceptable success that you are looking for? So now we did not win anything in 2 years suddenly make us a loser then? is success our god given rights?

Since when LFC is a sacking club? where were you at the beginning of the season when we lead the table?

he might spent 200 million (dunno bout the exact figure but will give you the benefit of the doubt) but he has to sell in order to buy… plus, he didn’t get enough backing from the board to buy the players he wanted… like Barry, Alves, Simao etc. Thus , you can see this season: our main weaknesses are right winger (we got Pennant instead of Simao) right back, no replacement when Arbeloa’s injured ( we got Degen instead of Alves)

Alonso returning to form is a bonus, but barry has been playing better for Villa and Villa is 4th..ahead of Arsenal..

..and Arsenal should have saked Wenger long long time ago, according to the logic of your arguments.

Donal,
Malaysia is summer 365 days ..its either hot or wet. nothing else. be careful not to get sun burn.

Another shit comment Roger
Anything decent to say?

I know Skeat its either hot or damn hot down there

Sir Roger, tone it down mate! Please don’t insult other Reds. you won’t get taken seriously. Seriously! I’ve never read insults like yours on this blog before. Apparently there was KopKing who was the first person to be banned by Gerry. So don’t be the second. I don’t believe in censorship, but I also don’t believe in insulting on the internet.

SRH,
Noticed the difference betwen Aiyic’s posts and yours?

Malaysia has no 4 seasons. only Sunny or wet days. as Donal mentioned… damn hot or damn wet..

Rome77 obviously didn’t do any thing of the sort Roger or maybe got sick of your benile manucia

Aiyic

SRH = kopking

So you admit you are Kopking then,you should have read my
original response and got counselling but then again its probabaly
too late and its rule 43 for you.

Well Roger my friend I hope you dont include me in ”Ço”
you insulted me ma so we go a lot deeper than that
and you can’t even buy respect from me!!

YNWA
Over and out

Who your probation officer

Hey guys,

lets just stop here.
Its pretty disrespectful to gerry if we “discuss” this way in his award winning blog.

Gerry’s blog did not win the award this way.

Insulting on the internet is retarded. Everyone loses! But you’re an attention-seeker. And you started the personal insults. Not to mention your ethnic stereotyping. Please don’t do that. I don’t know who Kopking is, (I missed that day) but he has the dubious reputation of being the first person to be banned. And he must have been bad to get banned by the saintly Gerry.

Look, let’s not make this blog about you. Try to be ‘constructive’ in your comments. See again the first paragraph, 2nd sentence of my post at #115. I for one, am above this. talk football…

I wont take anything to bed tonight but me hot wife

Your bullshite is only a bit of craic for me as I deal with wankers like you everyday
so sleep tight fuckface
over and out

P.S. assuming all young pool fans reading this site think your a scat muncher too and therefore will not be offended by my ‘sewer language’
over and out

For the benefit of a fair trial… i repost YOURS

#

Fuckin hell,,,,,,,,,,,,2-0,,,,,,,Im sorry guys,,,,,,,I said it before in my posts,,,,,,Prick Parry gone,,,,, 4 eyed Spanish waiter to follow please, no new contract,,,,,,,, its a new fuckin manager we need!!!!!!!!!!1

Comment by Sir Roger Hunt
February 28, 2009 @ 5:24 pm
#

Spanish waiter cunt couldnt motivate or arganise a piss up in a brewery without writing a 20000 page essay,,,,,,Fuck him off!!!!!!!

Comment by Sir Roger Hunt
February 28, 2009 @ 5:26 pm

Well said Skeat
I was standing up for me Ma and apologize for putting the site up for disrespute
Well done Gerry and the lads on your great achievement of which I proud to be a (small)part of!!
onwards and upwards lads and don’t insult me ma again you gobshite (Roger) or I’ll really be banned from this excellent site
over and out

These justified the abuse hurled at you.

OVER AND OUT…

Disgusted (and disappointed) Skeat signed off…

Sorry Roger I don’t see any illiteracy in my post at all
elaborate please my friend

You are so full of sh*t Kopking do it in person
when you sign on at the police station as part of your terms of probation .
PS Remember to ignore that urge you get when near children.

Roger
I accuse you for being a knobhead
that’s all!!
And of insulting a fellow Liverpool brothers Ma!!

Stop using my line
Over and out!!

Good luck to your grandson
and Good riddance to yourself
OVER AND OUT

I’m actually depressed over this today. I’m contradicting my earlier post, I have to get more off my chest. I’m stewing now. Having watched us today, I don’t think we have made progress at all. I think that by Liverpool standards, we have just maintained our status, and I don’t consider that an achievement. It will take time to see if Parry’s departure will make that much difference, but on the pitch, with the players we presently have, we should be doing better. Simple as! And it’s not about control of transfers, or blood on the carpet, there is a white line on the pitch that should be an escape hatch from all that. I feel just like I did during 03/04. I haven’t fully analyzed it yet, but it’s how I feel. The players shouldn’t get away scot-free though, do they know that that is an LFC shirt on there backs? We did win in Europe during the week, but let’s be fair, would we have beaten the 03/04 Madrid team if we had played them. Who knows? But would our team of 03/04 have beaten the current Madrid team. I reckon they’d have a pretty good shot, and are not as far removed from our current talent. depressed!

Ok, I watched the first half and we really should have had a couple of goals. Dirk Kuyts first touch continues to be sooo sooo bad! On a beautiful counter attack led by Xabi Dirk messed up a beautiful pass to allow the defender to pounce. For all his work rate, I think he is technically too poor and needs some time on the bench. El Zhar did pretty well and don’t know what Babel is doing in the middle of the pitch really. Gerrard did look a bit slo mo on the pitch but even with all this we still could have had a few goals. Fell asleep at half time, woke up in time to watch the second goal, then closed my eyes for the rest of the evening.
In relations to this Rafa business, I think the only thing that can really make us title challengers is for a new owner to inject some cash, coz there is only so much Rafa can do with limited funds. Don’t think it’s time to call for his head but maybe at the end of the season some evaluations need to be done from all sides coz something has to give. Our performances are just not good enough. Absolute zero consistency and that I doubt is going to change. We might go far in the league but now we have to focus on trying to stay second (third now on goal difference) and I can only see Chelsea getting better from now on. Damn… gonna be a long end to the season that’s for sure.
One more thing…. GUYS, PLEASE, PLEASE STOP RESPONDING TO SRH’S POSTS! THE MORE YOU RESPOND THE MORE HE KEEPS POSTING. IGNORE SOMEBODY, AND HE WILL GO AWAY….EVENTUALLY. GERRY PLS DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS.

Can everyone stop responding to SRH!

The personal abuse is dragging down this forum and, I agree with Aiyic (for once , that it is not fair on Gerry and his AWARD WINNING site.

Idhawan, just seen your post after a refresh. Agree totally.

i am surprised by the apocalyptic comments from some people. yes, it is very disappointing today, but like some have said…let’s look at this from a larger perspective. is this not the best we have done in the premier league in a very long time?

i cant believe someone thinks that biscan, henchoz, diouf, traore (03/04) is even quality with alonso, agger/skrtel, torres, arbeloa (08/09 comparable players). come on, really?

we have done very well this season in my opinion, given our circumstances (injuries and the like). here’s something i’ve been thinking about: rotation. the last few years, rafa rotated a lot early in the season, and we finished very strong… this year, however, he rotated very little in the beginning, and now we are dropping points left and right since xmas. something to think about. i think it is blatantly obvious that we do not have the strength in depth that chelsea and the mancs have. thus, rotation is necessary for us and there is a big drop in quality from torres to kuyt/babel as a lead striker. unlike with berbatov/rooney/tevez…

let’s all calm down, clear our thoughts and look at the big picture, and the past few years. yes we have dropped stupid points this year at times, but we have also won a lot more than usual.

enough from me

A bad sign of the times is I enjoyed reading all the comments today more than the match.

33 points to play for…

we are going to need all of them at this point. no way around that.

It is not over yet, maybe Ronaldo will crash another Ferrari and hit Rooney and Vidic with it and put all 3 out for the rest of the season.
If not, Rafa should put on Lucas with 5 mins to go against the scum, while we are up by 2 goals,and have him break as many metatarsals as possible, only joking:)

I heard people complaining that Rafa has spent 200M on players. Even if that is true, it is not that much in todays market and that is over 5 years.
So it is 40M a year or in Manure Money, 1 first team player and 1 squad player per year. I think Rafa has done at least that good. If we are talking about Chelski Money, they spent that each year for 3 years under Jose.
I dont think there is anything “special” about a manager winning the league after spending over 500m in 2 years.
We just need a bit of luck for a while, until we can get more confidence in front of goal

Im sick of hearing all Scum and Manure supporters talking about 200m spend. Firstly that could be NET spend. WE have had to sell to buy first.
Its like a home theatre set up. We had a mediocre package, we then bought a LCD TV, but we had to sell two speakers for one better one. So in the end, we arent complete anyway. Where as man utd have bought a new LCD, surround sound, projector, blu ray etc.

Man Utd and Chelski have te luxury to spend. If we were in man utds poition we wouldnt have been worrying about buying Barry and keeping Alonso etc

Quite a good article briefly outlining the demise of Parry.

ttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/premierleague/liverpool/4885080/How-Rick-Parry-walked-alone-after-relationship-with-Rafael-Benitez-fell-apart.html

true akka. there is no way we can compete financially with the mancs who earn 10s of millions of pounds more than us every home match. they buy two unproven kids for 30 million pounds without batting an eye lid. then they throw berbatov in on top of that for 30 million. oh, and tevez…sure, why not? we’ll pay another 30 for him…

chelsea have changed recently, but before…what are we talking…500-600 million pounds in two and a half years?!

First of all i’d like to apologise for lowering the tone of this blog earlier today .

All in all i think think its been a good week we beat Real at their place and got
rid of Coco and probably get to keep Rafa All we need now is for G&H to sell to
Dubai Guy ( a lifelong red like most of us) and the future will look a lot brighter
The Prem may seem to of gone for another year but you never know.
The FA may start giving us “favours” and punishing the Scum. ( pigs might fly )
One thing for certain it will return one day soon.
And if we win Old Big Ears again that would be a great season.

YNWA

Rome, there is no need at all to apologise.

I tend to believe the result is a reaction to the way the club is running at the moment. Something amis in the changeroom and board area. Sorry lads but somethings wrong. I still think more heads will role.
.
Our demise seems to have stemmed since the Robbie Keane debarcle.
.
Very disappointed with the comments.

we started playing poorly at the beginning of january, well before keane left. the month of january was a very bad run of results.

Sorry guys, I’m just back from the boozer and I’ve just seen the comments from that clown. All have now been deleted and apologies to anyone who may have been offended.
It’s difficult to understand the mentality of some people. Anyway I’ve tried to ban him but I’m not sure if it worked as it obviously didn’t last time so I’ll ask the techie guys to sort something out.

Hey Lads
apologies Gerry and fellow Kopbloggers for lowering the tone of the blog.

That lad just got me back-up with the personal abuse and I couldn’t let it lie.

33 points is a lot to play for and I’m still optimistic
Rafa’s not giving up so either am I
YNWA

Jesus lads, i step out for 5 minutes and you’re all at handbags at 10 paces. tut tut.

disapointing today, but not the end of the world.

chin up lads. Oh and thank fucking christ Coco the Clown is on his way out!!!!

Alec your correct but wasn’t it during this time he kept him on the bench or out of the team. I seem to remember a lot of speculation going on.

Thanks Gerry… good work! Maybe you guys can tag his ip address or something… whatever.
To be fair, we have been punching above our weight. In reality, our squad is nowhere near the depth of Uniteds or Chelsea so us on par with Chelsea is more a reflection on how poor their season has gone. If we are frustrated, imagine how those guys must feel, considering the money they have spent and all. It does bode well for us though in the sense that if we had some more money to spend we would be more of a force to be reckoned with. Lets face it, we have gone from a one man team to a two man team. Of course Xabi, Masch etc are excellent players but on the offensive front we need more heavyweights. Kuyt doesn’t have it, Babel isn’t showing it, Benny shows it now and then. Who else can we call on when Stevie and Torres are out? We don’t have the likes of Tevez sitting on the bench.
At least Parry won’t be around to screw things up next season. I wonder, if things go wrong then, who will get the blame?

Gerry, Thanks for rescueing us from the guy who’s language is not to be associated with the name of “Sir”.

Donal, there are still a lot of points to play for. We slipped last night. All the Carlsberg I drank were in happiness to see Norm and his daughter (also a Red) and others at Cobra. But when the game was at its closing stages, it felt more like drinking to drown our sorrows. Anyways, will pass your regards to Norm. John was away in Shenzhen.

The first goal was an accident. The second we gifted them when Aliadiare shot through the legs of Masch to set up Tuncay. Our guys last night were all trying their best to imitate Robbie Keane in how to miss a sitter in front of goal.

Alec the Red is right. Our depth in the team is very poor. This is difficult when both our top two players are injured.

Ah well, let’s see how we will fare in our future games. Cheers!

Back to some more contructive commenting… looking back to my comment #18, I think most would agree that unfortunately as soon as we don’t have Torres starting, our strikeforce immediately looks very make-shift. Unfortunately that is an indictment of our complete lack of depth in attack; we are capable of “making do” in some games (particularly when Gerrard plays well – eg Newcastle) but otherwise we really are as impotent as a 90 year old without his little blue pills.

One thing is also for sure though, this season we have not kept enough clean sheets. We can’t call them all “unlucky” goals because there have been too many. Looking over the course of the whole season it leaves me questioning whether Carra-Skrtel really is our best defensive pairing. I’m a big Agger fan (yes I know he’s injured at the moment) and just can’t believe he is unable to get a regular game when fit. He may not be as “tough” as Skrtel but his ball playing is in a different league to both Carra and Skrtel. I’m dreading the summer because I can see him leaving – the only solace is that Rafa appears to have a good eye for finding quality centre halves.

I was hoping the draw to Man City last week would in some ways free us of some pressure and see us playing some better stuff, as the expectations on us to win the league should have virtually vanished at that point; perhaps it will come with this loss instead. I’d certainly welcome us throwing SOME caution to the wind for the rest of the games… ok we don’t exactly have the personnel to do that but at least in playing style.

PS Aussie/JP “welcome back” mate, you and your handbag have been missed in here!

voronin is banging in goals for hertha berlin lately…4 in 4 games i think and hertha is top of bundesliga..
time to call him back, perhaps?

ykleong – personally I wouldn’t be opposed to the idea of bringing Voronin back – one of his strengths is his movement, which I believe is one of our weaknesses when Torres isn’t playing (at times it was quite evident against Boro, we were very stagnant).

However – Rafa is a stubborn bugger who rarely admits mistakes – and bringing back Voronin would be like admitting that selling Keane back without buying a replacement was a mistake. So I have no doubt that Voronin isn’t in the equation for him… he’d rather give minutes to Ngog.

So we’re back in the usual position of fighting for a CL place again and hoping we can win the CL. When I looked at the squad in August I did say that challenging for the title would show progress. I didn’t mean challenging up to February I meant right up until May. If we end up in 3rd place and more than 10 points behind the champions it shows no progession at all.

Fuck knows what happened in our transfer dealings in the last couple of windows because I believe we have as weak a strike force we’ve ever had since Rafa took over. If Torres is not playing we have the 3rd rate strikers. Kuyt, Babel, Ngog would not get a striking role in the first team of any of the top 10 teams in the Premier League.

Rafa’s been building the squad for 5 years yet some us think (and rightly so) that our squad depth is rather pants. Fucking Everton have had more injuries than us but still get results. In fact they have got more points than us in 2009. Only Chelsea have a higher net spend than us since 2004. Look it up if you don’t believe me.

Beat Real Madrid and lose to Boro how fucking typical. Are the players lacking in motivation for these games or what? We need more quality and a better attitude in these matches. I’m fed up with the excuses.

Considering bringing Voronin back just sums up how desperate we are.

Agree that the main probelm had been stikers. Crouch had to be sold to buy Keane, whom Rafa did not want in the first place. He had wanted Barry, even to the extent of , yes, sacrificing Alonso, his countryman. Alonso had been very good this year. But I think Barry would have been better and more in line with Rafa’s plans,his setups, linking up with SG, free kicks, etc. Had Barry come in instead of Keane, then we would have have to sell Crouch and at least have a decent back up striker. But then again Crouch was also a grouch, complaining of a lack of first team places, etc, etc before he went. Oh well….
Such are the joys of being a LFC supporter.

Rafa did indeed want Keane, its just he wanted Barry more. If we got Barry and didn’t get Keane I don’t see how it would have made a great difference to our weaknesess. For me Alonso has been our key performer this season. Would Barry have been a better option? I doubt it but I guess nobody knows.

Agreed LB, it seems like Rafa still works his priorities (in terms of personnel) starting from the back going forward. He felt Barry would give us more depth in midfield – as well as the ability to play on the left of midfield and left-back. It was a good idea, but at the end of the day it probably would not have improved our attack. That said, if we had Barry AND Alonso (which would have been the ideal situation and what we could do if we weren’t skint), the extra midfield depth would have stopped us from having to play Masch & Lucas together to such poor effect in those games this year.

I’ve actually got a feeling that Rafa wanted Barry to play on the left of the 4-2-3-1, alternating with Babel, as well as rotating in for Alonso/Masch when required.

Anyway it’s all useless banter now isn’t it. Especially with Villa well on track to make the Champions League next season, which I’m sure will keep Barry there.

Your’e right LB, it was indeed typical of us to lose to fucking Middlesborough (their first fucking Prem win in 15 attempts I might add) after beating Real Madrid.

Gerrard put gilt edged chances on a plate for El Zhar and Kuyt, and they both failed to convert. For a striker of Kuyt’s experience it was a joke, it should have been a simple tap in.

Gerrard was absolutely gobsmacked when EL Zhar skied a perfect cutback from the skipper, he just couldn’t believe it!

Mind you if you play a centre back at right back when he has never played there before, ahesd of a centre half who has played at right back on numerous occasions, I guess you are asking for trouble, No??

It was evident that Skrtel was a fish out of water in that position. Is Rafa trying to screw his confidence as well?

Steve, I don’t think the fact that Skrtel played at right-back had any bearing on the fact that Kuyt and El-Zhar missed absolute sitters. In fact if they had put those chances away, Skrtel’s position may not have even been a talking point at all.

I’m guessing that Skrtel played at right-back because Carra has played almost every minute of every game this year and probably didn’t have the legs to cover the extra ground. That’s probably the message Rafa was sending when subbing him off too.

Andy, I didn’t mean to link the missed sitters with Skrtel playing at right back, of course the 2 things are totally different issues.

Surely we could have done better than play a centre half with no experience as a full back at right back ahead of Aurelio, Dossena, or even Insua. The fact that these guys are predominently left footed would have been compensated for by the fact that they arew used to covering the ground that a full back needs to. Did you see Skrtel’s right back performance? It was Keystone Kops stuff, and that’s being kind!

Even if we had won the game, I would still be commenting on Skrtel’s selection at right back, trust me!

Fair enough Steve. Skrtel wasn’t great but in watching the replay, I actually think Hyypia was largely/partly to blame for both goals… for the corner he should have been cutting it out before it even made it through to Alonso (no ball should make it to the 6 yard box at hip-height). And for the 2nd goal he was caught well out of position. Skrtel had a shit game, but as far as I could see he wasn’t in any way to blame for either of the goals. I know that’s a simplified analysis though.

Why dident Rafa just play a right back there, the one he had on the bench? One really wonders in bemusement what goes on in Rafas mind at times. I can only wonder at what Darby was thinking watching it and all. Another mind boggling decision from Rafa in a season littered with them. Sigh…

I thought that Skrtel “ducked” under the ball coming in for the first goal, something suprising for a central defender. Hyypia could well have been at fault as well, I thought we had a poor day at the office defensively.

Skrtel could well suffer a setback in confidence following his humiliation, but really it is not his fault, I’m sure he didn’t ask to be played there.

I’d forgotten about Darby Digger, your’e right, he must have been thinking “Fucking hell, what chance have I got when the gaffer would rather play a centre half at right back than give me a go!” The only thing I would say about Darby, is that if he wasn’t in the squad it is possible that he was injured. But there were still other options that would have been better than poor Skrtel at RB.

Darby was sat on the bench for the full 90 Steve. I shit you not.

Thanks Digger, I wasn’t sure whether he was among the subs or not. Fucking hell, what is wrong with Benitez????

I’ve just read Matt Ladson’s article on TIA about Rafa’s bewildering team selections. If you haven’t read it yet it’s well worth doing so.

I’ve always been a fan of Rafa but can’t help agreeing with some of what Matt Ladson wrote. Darby must be tearing his hair out in frustration! If you are good enough to make the bench then you should play!

Skrtel at right back is ridiculous. We have 2 right backs in the first team squad. Arbie and Degen. Both are injured. Darby is a right back, captain of the reserve team and 21 years old. So why can’t he get a game against Boro playing alongside experienced team mates?

I thought exactly the same thing in the Portsmouth match when Aurellio was playing while Jay Spearing didn’t get a look in. Rather play a left back in central midfield that play your young central midfield player in his favoured position. And again against a struggling side.

I’m not saying that playing Darby or Spearing would have made any difference to the matches in question. But for the longer term development of our young players they need to get games. How on earth did Gerrard and Carra get in the side in the first place? If Rafa was our manager in the 90s forget Mcmanaman, Fowler, Owen, Gerrard and Carra. We’d have had Ian Rush on the wing, Staunton in centre midfield and fucking Steve Nicol up front.

Just read Matt Ladson’s piece on the main site. I bloody well agree 100% with what he says.

Stoke (bottom 3) pull back 2 goals in last 3 mins to draw at Villa (top 4).

Spurs, somewhere in the bottom half have taken Manure (of the divine right) to extra time in the mickey mouse cup final.

Anyone will do you in this league if you give them a chance.

The Arse held at home to Fulham (remember them ?) and Chavski get an (undeserved) last minute winner v Wigan (remember them ?). By the way, remember Stoke ? … and actually Spus ?

LB, I think that under Rafa, Stevie Nicol would have been hard pushed to land a striker’s berth ahead of Mark Lawrenson!!

Rafa seems to think the whole squad he has are all as versatile as Stevie.G when they clearly are not.

I thought most of what Sir Roger Hunt was spouting the other day was bullshit, but he made the point that if we do win the CL Rafa will be given another 4 year contract the day after lifting big ears. This would mean another 4 years without Really challenging (that means right up until the last game of the season) for the PL. Call me cynical if you want, I don’t care. This is how I feel, and my feelings are a result of what has happened to our half hearted title challenge.

Here’s what we should do… have Rafa manage the team for the CL and have Sammy Lee manage for the EPL. Our best game of the season did come when Sammy Lee was shouting his head off at the touchline… at Newcastle.

Idhawan, funny you say that. Our best period since Dalglish resigned was when Houllier was in hospital and Phil Thompson ran the team.

The next transfer window is key for me. If Rafa spends considerable money on another load of mediocrity that would be it for me.

Steve thats why I’ve said a couple of times in here this season, at the end of the year we (LFC) have a decision to make: if we’re content making a deep c.l run and battling for 3rd or 4th every year then well and good but if we want to make the next step then… well then sad as it may be for some we’ve got to move on. Tell you what, I’d love to know where the players are in all this, they’d be a good barometer. Is it as peanut said; half of them are behind him and the other half dont know what hes at?!

Benayoun has been our form player over the last 3 weeks or so. How come he didn’t play against Boro?

Mancs just won the Carling Cup.

thats heartbreaking for spurs…the mancs just always seem to have luck on their side. certainly for the past decade at least things just seem to fall their way more often than not. it also helps having the FA and referees help them out also.

still, ronaldo played 120 minutes+, as did tevez, ferdinand, and a few others… hopefully it’ll wear em out.

Is Matt Ladson Diggerno.10 in disguise?! Thats basically word for word what I’ve been saying all season. From the ‘indefensible’ tactics and team selections (a word I got chastised for using) to the time I pleaded for Rafa to just ‘shut the fuck up’, its all in there. Ladson I’m consulting my lawyers! Anyway, all joking aside, God damn them fucken Mancs….

Alec, the mancs have had a few good players over the last decade as well. That helps.

LB, of course. i would never suggest that everything was handed to them completely…they have had a consistently incredible squad of players since the early 90s. partly from a fantastic academy class, and partly from the money that their business generated.

The next transfer window will only mean anything to us if we have new owners by then. If not, where will the money for players be coming from.

I’ve said before that even if you gave Rafa £100m to spend, he’d probably still guide us to 3rd or 4th place. And that’s how I feel right now. Perhaps Torres will start in goal against Real Madrid!

Steve mate, you seem as fed up as I feel. Get some wine in you and watch a good movie.

Good advice LB. I won’t go for a Spanish Red though, and I might plump for the Great escape as my movie to watch!

FFS this is a load of shite that i am begginning to hear. Who do you suggest as a manager for us Alec?? And given 100m how do you know Rafa would spend it?? Firstly, and more importantly, would he or any other manager be able to spend it in a manner they see fit?? In that case rafa would have buoght Alves, Simao, etc etc etc. But not that doesnt matter.

If i was treated the same at work, my decisions seconds guessed to the point that my 4th preference was the only one that was selected and eventuated due to the inability of others (board, ceo etc) it have pissed off a long time ago.

whoa, whoa, whoa there akka…just cause steve’s name is strangely similar to mine, don’t go claiming that i’m the one that has no faith in rafa.

i know you meant steve, but just wanted to clear that up.

YNWA

‘No Direction Home’ is the movie I am gonna watch mow. Is that a good or bad sign?

WOW, well I was totally justified in staying out of here yesterday.
There’s more spleen laying around in here than at a clinic that specializes in spleenectomy procedures!

I’m not going to even try to defend Rafa, co it just gets us nowhere.

I simly ask this. How many of the 14 players who took the field yesterday warranted better than a 5 out of 10 for their performance?

In my opinion, there were 4 players that I would give a 5 or higher… Carra, Sami, Masch and Benny.
The rest were abjectly League 1 poor!

And before you say, well its the managers job to motivate them, let me just tell you that while there is a certain amount of truth to that, I have personal experience of playing for coaches who undermined me and never showed any confidence in me and were tactically backarsewards, but it never stopped me from putting in my fair share of effort and completing simple passes, or putting a shot on goal (and by that, I don’t mean hitting the bloke sat up in row Z, I mean making the keeper do his fuckin job!)

Aitch surely you’re not suggesting Rafa undermines players and is tactically backarsewards?! What would make anyone think that?!

Sorry Alec, just very frustrated with it all at the moment.

I cant be bothered adding to this debate, because clearly it is not debatable.

Questions lads:

Is Arbie better than Finnan?
Dossena better than Riise?
Babel/Riera better than Kewell?
Kuyt better than Murphy?
Masch better than Hamman?
Torres better than Owen?
Alonso better than McAllister?

Aurelio is better than Riise. Riise became stale near the end of his career and waw woefully one footed. His time had come. We should give Dossena a little more time before calling time on him. Insua I believe is also better than Riise. More versatile I believe.
Kewell?? Really? How often did he play for Liverpool? Injuries etc?!? He had to go, for his sake and for ours.
Our central midfield is crowded already. Murphy was not happy with lack of playing time. Enough said. Can’t compare Murphy and Kuyt as they play totally different positions.
Masch is better than Hamman in my opinion. Breaks up plays just as well and offers more going forward. Younger, faster and hungry! Captain of Argentina… enough said.
Torres is better than Owen. More weapons to his game.
Alonso is the key vital cog in our engine. Wouldn’t say better than Mac but just as good.

i honestly dont think that mac had as good of a passing range as alonso when they are both at the top of their game.

is rooney better than van nistelrooy?
is carrick better than roy keane?
is van der sar better than schmeichel?
is brown better than gary neville?

Anybody read Matt Ladsons story about beating Real /or the double on Chelshit
No because he didnt write one.
Anybody read RANT- MANCS SHOW THERE COLOURS october 26 2008
yet Rafa should keep his mouth shut
Anybody read 3.25 million for a England international july 18 2008
He noticed we are skint and have to sell to buy.
I know you read his latest story about Ninja at RB and how its Rafas fault
Degan was signed (free transfer mind) when he’d have probably been his
4th choice. And that he should have played a youngster so if we still lost
he could slate him for that. And the classic” it never was a title challenge
Read The night Benitez dug his own grave January 29 2009
It was a title challenge then . But all said and done he’s run this Website
for 10 years and done more for this club than any fan.
YNWA

PS His words in the comments section of Ringmaster ( Website 10 years etc).
YNWA

RE: Rick Parry

The fact that our club were the last to have a website says pretty much how much business acumen this twat possessed.

Also a few years back, budget airline AirAsia apparently approached Parry with a view to sponsorship. But this elitist snob saw fit to dismiss the proposal without any fooking homework. Parry is beloeved to have said, ” Who are they?”.
Today, the airline’s money is used to take the scum brand to all corners of the world as their planes all carry the bloody scum logo.

These are the sort of missed opportunities that we have had to endure under Parry & fer that me is glad to see him go. But the replacement better not be another clueless prick.

Incredibly, the board have yet to realise the pull of LFC have the world over.

Where is our Mandarin / Japanese websites?

Doesn’t cost much to hire a couple of translators but . . .

While new stadia is definitely out of the question at the moment, we definitely need some serious MARKETING (sorry fer using such bad language here) in helping to generate extra funds our club needs to compete with the richer rivals.

Sorry fer rant!

We must not question Benitez’s Team selection.
He’s a Premier League Manager.. we are not.

rafa cant put the ball in the net. yes we played the last 45 minutes very poorly…but we had 2 plain sitters…and yes, i mean sitters of the lowest order that were missed. had one of them gone in, we would have won the game, i am sure.

as managers always say (rafa, fungus, special needs, whinger, and moanin’ oneill included)…the main goal is to try and create goal scoring chances. we do this regularly, and have attacked with more free-flowing football this season that we have seen in a long time, but we have failed to capitalize on our domination of lesser teams, and kill them off with the chances we create.

i feel that if we had a fit torres this season, we would have at least 6-9 more points, no question about it. same with gerrard. the trouble is they are in and out of the side so often…

roll on tuesday

Is Arbie better than Finnan? – no, but he’s a fair bit younger and of pretty similar standard.

Dossena better than Riise? – I honestly don’t think he’s been that bad, and has improved over the year. Given Riise’s rate of decline and the expected rate of improvement on Dossena (if being fair), I think in 12 months the answer could be a Yes. And he’s younger.

Babel/Riera better than Kewell? – No, Kewell’s best is better. But Kewell turned down a modified contract extension and misses more games than he plays. I’d take Babel/Riera.

Kuyt better than Murphy? – Different positions, can’t compare. You should be asking if Alonso is better than Murphy, that was the trade, and I’d take Alonso.

Masch better than Hamman? Yes. Hamann was on his last legs too – Masch is a world-class star and only in his mid-20s. He’s just had some poor form this year. But form is temporary, class is permanent.

Torres better than Owen? Yes. Torres is a young superstar approaching his prime, Owen is a has-been who showed little loyalty to the club. Not even close.

Alonso better than McAllister? Yes, not that Alonso replaced McAllister though.

LB, I think your asking about the wrong players, all mentioned are basically quality.
.
Kewell at the moment is leaving both Babel and Riera for dead.
.
Is Warnock any worse than Dossena.
.
Is Hamman and Guthrie any worse than Lucas.
.
Is Mellor, Pongolle, Voronin any worse the Ngog and.
.
If Finnan any worse than Degen.
.
Was Bellamy, Crouch and even Fowler any worse than Keane.
.
If we just look at Dossena and Lucas, thats 14 million that could have been spent on a winger.
.
Bellamy, Crouch, Mellor, Pongolle could have funded a striker.
.
We’ve had Anderson and Hammil out on loan playing well for two seasons, both appear further from the team than ever.
.
It’s the squad players that Rafa spends money on, we have sold as many squad players and bought them, and in the end there still squad players.
.
I’m a bit disturbed with recent comments regarding Rafa meddling in players contract talks. I hope he signs but I’ve got a niggling feeling he’s going to quit.

Let’s hope your Niggle is true,Gaz

Gaz in that case i think you should mention Traore, Diao, Diouf, Baros (who has no footballing brain at all), Dudek, Smicer?????? and compare these names to their equivelant. No doubt we have come along way, and anyone who disagrees is in my opinion just wishing to bash Rafa.

Redscouse, as LFC supporters we will always have trhe right ro question the managers team selection, no matter who the manager is…. and particularly when he plays a centre half at right back who is evidently not able to cope in that position. No one is above criticism, and that includes Rafa.

akka, are you confident that if Rafa had £100m to spend he would land us the title then? Are you sure? Do you not think he would still play players out of position, or unecessarily rest players even then? I do.

And I will make no apologies for saying it. Although we have an inferior squad, we did have a good chance of winning the Prem up until early January. After Rafa’s rant on January 9 our title charge died, there’s no denying that. You can call it coincidence if you want to keep on deluding yourself, but if he kept his mouth shut we would of been better off. Everyone knew after that rant that Rafa couldn’t handle the pressure.

Ask yourself one question: Has Rafa’s rant on January 9 helped LFC on any way, shape or form?

Hi all !

I want the following results in the coming few matches:

1. Liverpool beat Sunderland (58 points)
2. ManU loosing or drawing at NCastle
(62 0r 63points)
3. Chelsea winning their match too.(58 pts)

March 14th
4. Liverpool winning or drawing at OT. (61 or 59)
5. Chelsea winning that weekend(61)

So ManU ending up with either 63 or 64 or 62 !! They will have a game in hand.

What it will mean is the Title race will again become a 3 horse race. I still feel that Chelsea will last longer than us because we have our 2 best players injured. I would be glad if Chelsea can win it. That way atleast ManU wont touch our all time record.

Squad Strength:

Liverpool looks very poor. Please sell Babel,Lucas,Dossena. Bring three good quality players.

Steve like i said earlier, if the lunch lady retires and the team loses a game Rafa will be blamed. His rant was justified, and i for one was happy that we at least have a manager with some Kahonez and willing to stand up to the FA and Fergie. In fact other managers supported him.

Did you actually see the interview mate??? If you did you wouldnt call it a rant (the media were the only ones calling it a rant to sell their articles). Rafa was composed and more or less relaxed. So lets stop buying into this media bs that it was rafas fault that we are struggling cause of his so called “rant”.

And another point. Some think rafa doesnt support his players enough and that is why they have no confidence. He comes out and says we have the experience to win the title cause of the players we have (clearly supporting the f-ing team) and then he gets slagged off for that. FFS some times you cant win.

The problem is akka, Raffa is giving his backing to players who are evidently not good enough. Lucas, Kuyt, Dossena. I won’t include Babel because I think that he could do well if given a sustained run in the side, 90 mins for a few back to back games.

Rafa’s rant is a literation that has stuck, no offence intended by calling it a rant. Rafa’s well thought out attack on Fergie would have been much more effective only if it had happened after we had gone on to win the Prem, which we won’t do now. I think he has made himself look a tad silly. If you don’t agree that’s fine, you are entitled to your views just as the rest of us are.

I think a fact, however, is that we do seem to have come out worst after Rafa’s rant…… whoops I mean well thought out attack.

Alec, why compare the manc past and present players when it was the same manager who recruited both sets and both sets have been all conqering? I asked the question to trigger a debate discussing if the players we have now are any better than the ones we had in the early 2000s while they were in their prime.

I agree we had to move the likes of Finnan, Riise, Hamman, Kewell on but their replacements have not been an improvement on what these were when at their best. For the record I think Alonso and Torres are improvements on McAllister/Murphy and Owen.

PS. I compared Murphy to Kuyt because Murphy played on the right wing quite a bit (alternating with Gerrard) and Kuyt plays on the right wing quite a bit.

Akka, the bit about Rafa’s ‘rant’ or ‘attack’ on Ferguson that I didn’t like was him saying that the mancs were scared of us because we were top and they didn’t expect us to be top in December/January. Well he looks pretty stupid saying that now doesn’t he? That kind of talk is just asking for trouble. What he read from his bit of paper was all true and it was not an off the cuff rant, but in my opinion all it did was inspire the mancs to win every week. It did nothing to our form – didn’t harm it or inspire it in my opinion.

Lastly, remember I said we’d win fuck all if only Torres and Gerrard carried a consistent threat? Well the chickens are coming home to roost aren’t they?

Oh dear I find myself commenting again despite the fact that I thought it was useless and refrained from making any contributions.

Steve the red, I think you’re being a bit unfair with your last couple of questions. Of course, you do not need to apologise because I understand your logic, but I hope I can shed a different light on your thoughts.

1. Would you be confident that if Rafa had been able to spend 100 million on players he would bring us the title??

>No, but I bloody well would be more confident than I feel now! Also, I would not be confident that Fungusface or Mourinho would have been able to better rafa if they had been given our shite team 5 years ago and were allowed to spend 100 million from that point onwards. And let’s not forget that he would have to be able to convince the board that his targets are better than the boards! Then of course, Wenger will be counted out cos he would not spend 100 million even he was allowed to!!

2. We had a chance to win the title in January but Rafa’s “rant” spoiled it.

Really? First and foremost, the EPL is decided over all the games until May. If not, we would have to say that Hull City had a fair chance to win it in September, but Chris brown cocked up, did he not?
If the subsequent two months since January ruled us out from being crowned top, I think that underlines the ability of our team. It’s called “capabilities” or “depth in squad.”
Furthermore, if Rafa’s so-called rant had any negative effect on the players, all I can say is, our players are a load of bollacks and should be ashamed of getting paid to play. What kind of wimps are they, being affected by that particular set of Rafa’s comments? I can understand it if certain players dropped down because they were criticized (“Insomnia, err, no Nzogbia”) or the comments touched on whether the mangers was going to quit or not, but come on, it was a fighting rant if anything, and so the players should have the mental toughness to deal with it either by being spurred on or brushing it aside. Jesus, some of the players should join the army or something and see what pressure is really about.

I am not saying that Rafa is faultless. But I just don’t think people appreciate his qualities when it is apparent to see.

It’s as digger (or was it LB?) put it. How the hell can a team that can play so well against the likes of Real on a constant basis, fail to finish things off against lesser opponents, again on a consistant basis. This twist of results is probably the only constant in out team!!
As everyone has been pointing out, cups are different to leagues.

Well, there you go, you’ve answered your question.

Do I have to put it more simply??

EPL= A decent squad is the deciding factor. Hardly any room for tactics. Which is why someone like Harry Redknapp (who has done shit all on a European level) is even considered a proper manager in England. Laughable.

CL= A decent manager is the deciding factor.

I don’t care who we play against in Europe– I am always confident with my team then. Why? Cos rafa’s in charge.
I am always gloomy in the EPL. Why? cos I don’t trust my squad other than Torres and SG. Not because rafa tends to tinker with the team.

If rafa was a manager that had only sporadic results in Europe, I would have been pissed off with him as many of you in here. But the truth is, he has been one of the best, if not the best. That is why I think all this thing about rafa’s tactics, rafa’s politics having ruined our chances are way over the top. We have to realise that our squad was destined to drop points. Get fungus face to manage this team, and I would still feel that we would be struggling. Capabilities of a squad even out at the very end, and if we do end up in the 2nd or 3rd areas, then that is because our squad is just that. How long does it take for people to accept this?? I mean let’s face it, what is so different about our squad to the one that was dire last season. Ngog and Riera. What wonderful duo of players, they are aren’t they? We were already out by end of November last season, but here are joint second this year. Isn’t this because the players have actually started to understand rafa’s tactics??
We should bloody well thank Rafa for us to be competing this far, in addition to the fact that once again, we are looking strong in Europe. By the way, we are the number 1 team in Europe. I really think people should give him a break.

Hi,
Long time reader of this blog here.

I believe the purpose of Rafa’s so called rants was to distract the media’s attention from SG’s court case. In this respect, Rafa was quite successful, he had managed to draw attenttion from both the media and fans to himself. I hardly read anything about the court case just before and after SG’s first appearance in court. It was just unfortunate that the team’s form went downhill from then onwards when SG and Torres got injured.

I am still trying to find out the meaning of “You’ll never walk alone”. Can anyone help me? Is it referring to during good times or bad times?

Lads, remember the high hopes we had for Degan and Dossena in the summer? Lol. I remember the debates saying we didn’t need wingers because we’ve bought 2 pacey, quality, attacking full backs. I’ll never forget the description on Dossena when he first signed. How he has been playing for Italy ahead of Grosso is quite incredible.

Oh yes and Keane was gonna be the difference maker – bridge the gap from last season to this.

Its gone a bit tits up init?

Hyde, don’t you think we could have got better players last summer for the money we spent?

Dossena, Riera, Keane, Ngog = £37m

Also I think you have confidence in CL games because Rafa’s tactics usually work against teams who attack us. Rafa is good at setting up his team to stop the other team. Also in the CL you can draw half your matches, then draw the final and still win the trophy. Different story in the PL where you have to win about 70% of your matches to win it.

How confident are you when you know we have to WIN a football match to progress? If we lost a first leg against a good side in the CL would you be confident we’d WIN (not draw) the tie? When we won the CL in 2005 but only won 6 out of the 13 matches. We got to the 2nd round the following season winning 3 out of 8 games. Season after that we got to the final winning 8 out of 13 games. Last season in the CL we won 6 out of 12 games.

LFC CL record 2004-08: P46. W23. D12. L11.

The reason you are more confident Hyde is that draws and the odd narrow defeat in the CL are alright.

And ranking means fuck all. Nobody cares about rankings unless your worried about seeding ahead of the group draw.

If we don’t beat the Black Cats 2moro then Rafa should play the ressies @ Greyskull.We need 2 play Insua and Aurelio down the left, Carra and Babel on the right.The CL is winnable if Barca and Man Ure slip up.The Riverside has been a disastyer 4 us since Rafa took over.Man City were crap again yesterday-we should of hammered them!.Boro 2 lose their next game?.Must be + 2moro night.

Aurellio:

“We have lost a great opportunity to try to get closer to Manchester United but we must bounce back now and beat Sunderland at Anfield on Tuesday night,” said Aurelio.
“We will still keep on fighting because we know in football that anything can happen. We won’t give up and we will now try to win every game.”

What’s the point fo these statements?

LB i personally hate it when people say what you did (dont mean to be personal btw : “Dossena, Riera, Keane, Ngog = £37m”
Its not that simple. Firstly Keane wasnt exactly Rafas first choice. Secondly we needed cover down the left (both mid and defence). I bet if we got a expensive striker etc and we fucked up we would be getting the “i told you that rafa should have bought another left midfielder”.

Secondly, another analogy, When rafa took over Fergie had a garage of 11 Ferrari’s and Porche’s and a few BMW’s. We had a team of mainly Fords, a few BMW’s and maybe one Ferrari (Stevie). So Fergie has been able to simply buy another Ferrari when one is getting older or not firing on all cylinders, but he still gets to keep the original just in case. Where as with Rafa he cant go out and buy one or two Ferrari’s. With the transfer amount he must manage to upgrade a large portion of Fords on a lower budget than someone like fergie receives to buy on Ferrari.

LB #201. Why dont the players come out and say “we cant win the title anymore, we give up now”??????

I dont think Rafa is faultless, in fact i agree Skrtel should not have played right back. Just like i didnt agree with Aurellio playin in the middle, but was i proven wrong. However in the games that we drew and the boro game, we had numerous tap in chances. Rafa cant go on the park himself and tap them in.

Also, Hyde well said in #197

Surprised at some of the reaction – am happy that we lost the game. Atleast its not another draw. I was convinced that’s what we had agreed on this blog.

YNWA

Akka, I prefer a Carra type statement. Such as “We can talk about the need to win every game all we want, we need to go out and do it”. Rather than churning out the same old tired bullshit after every game.

As for saying you hate it when people talk about what money was spent. What you hate is people using facts to criticise the manager. You can spin it what way you want mate. Nearly £40m was spent in the summer to improve the squad and none of those have been a success. Forget the mancs for a minute – their quality has pretty much remained at the same level over the last 3 seasons. (check their points tally over last couple of seasons). It’s up to us to give them some competition which means improving what WE have.

Face it. The transfer dealings over the summer were a total balls up.

Read Tony Barrett’s article on the echo.

Has anyone considered the fact that manure are a very good team who have just won their last 10 league games and dropped only 4 points since the 8th November.

A sign of champions you could say.

Well Hyde, all I can say is that those of you that think we have a manager to deliver the title for us are extremely hopeful. Don’t get me wrong, I am not knocking you for it, in fact I think it commendable in many ways.

It’s just that I don’t think he will manage us to the title now, even if he was at Anfield for another 5 years. I think in terms of a title challenge he has taken us as far as he can.

I know he did it in Spain, but this is not Spain, it is England and it’s much harder to do it here.

I have nothing against Rafa, I want to see LFC win the PL, that’s all.

LB has very eloquently explained why we are better in the CL, and if you look at it you’ll find it makes perfect sense. Most of our PL draws have been against teams that have shut up shop against us, and we have huffed and puffed and failed to break them down. that is why we won’t win the PL.

Complaining about the buys of last season Ngog and whoever else doesn’t really matter unless you can give us sure things costing the same amount of money. All the upper class players Rafa wanted, he could not get because either they were priced out of his budget or another team came in and offered more. Eg. Simao, Vidic etc. Yes Rafa has been given money on the odd occasion to buy big eg. Torres but on the whole he has had to buy the best he could on a modest budget and for that he had to buy young as the older more experienced players would be too expensive. Lucas, Babel, Ngog, Insua etc all young players within Liverpool’s budget. Voronin, Degen etc free transfers. Teams like Tottenham and Newcastle have more money to spend than we do and look where they are. If Rafa had his way, we might have players like Vidic, Simao, Barry etc in the team instead of the Degens and co.
I think it’s only fair we judge Rafa on his signings when he actually can buy the players he really wants and not when he has to settle for less expensive options. How do we really know if Lucas and co were his first options? Maybe they were his options based on the money he had.
Scolari came in and bought the likes of Deco to add to Chelsea’s already formidable squad yet here we are, fighting with them for second place.
It’s been a tough year, for sure but it could have been worse and maybe with more money for a better squad, it could be better.

Alright lads havent been in for a while,my connection was down.

What a week its been.Great result in the CL.Then we have a shocking result on satuerday.

All i`m hearing now is “sack rafa now” from all corners.Not so much in here to be truthful.The answer isn`t to sack the manager.The answer is to get rid of the board.

At the beginning of the season looking at the squad realisticly,a title challenge was the most we could have hoped for.

We have not got that.In my opinion here`s why.

1.Injurys:The long layoff of our prolific goalscorer Torres and injurys to steve Gerrard plus other key players have cost us IMO 6-8 points.Also players leaving for meaningless international tournaments ie,mash,babel and insua.

2.Transfer policy:The manager was never backed properly from day one.Having to sell players to buy and not getting his intended targets etc meant we haven`t added enough quality.
Also the treatment of robbie keane when he was on song was wron.I blame Rafa for this one.Keane was also sold on the last day of the window thus leaving us with no time to find a replacement.Don`t know who`s to blame for that one.

3.Persisting with average players:Lucas,dossena,ngog are not good enough.end of.Rafa needs to realise this and flog them.Again this goes back to money being made available from the board to buy quality not duds.

The CL seems our best chance of a trophy now so lets get behind the team from here on.

How much do we need to spend to beat Middlesbrough and Stoke City?

To be fair, after all spending by everybody, there is only one team beating everybody in the league. Only one…

Oh, so no worries then.

Jeez, you’d think Rafa likes buying average players. But when you dont have the luxury to splash out 15MM on Anderson (0 PL goals I think), 15MM on always crocked Heagreaves, millions on Cup starter Tevez, you will end up buying more average players than not. Rafa walks a tight rope – one expensive player flopping will have a much much detrimental effect on Liverpool than the Scums. Imagine he had taken the money from Ngog + Dossena + Lucas and bought Heagreaves? Boy would the media and some fans have a party then.

I remember last time this year we were having a Wenger love-in at Kopblog and how he could unearth hidden gems and how we couldnt even keep pace with them. I’m glad we didnt.

and for my money, the whole Keane saga was a non-event. I dont think we ever had that money in the first place.

YNWA

LB, I agree with your analysis on why we are successful in the CL, and not so in the EPL, to an extent. But in a different context.

We struggle against teams that park in front of their own goals (because we do not have the players to break them down). In the CL, teams don’t do that. Regardless of the result, no team other than say the likes of Greece, will risk it to get thru on penalties. At some point, both teams will have to come out and attack. Whether that is in the first leg or second leg or during extra time depends on the context obviously, but whatever the case, any of the teams looking to win will do so, and that includes us. However, in the EPL, the lesser opponents are more than happy to settle for a point. At no given time is it necessary for these teams to come out. That is why we struggle. The difference in the results between the EPL and CL exist not because we aim for draws in the CL, but because teams like Bolton aim for draws against us. It is the other way around to what you imply. Draws and narrow defeats are alright certainly in the league stages for the CL, but in the knock-out stages, that is not given. Unless you are 100% confident that you can win on penalities.

On a different matter, as you point out, our boss is second to none in pinpointing the strength of our opponent and coming up with solutions. We are good at negating top teams because we have a manager that is excellent at analysing and bringing solutions. That approach is positive and in no way intended primarily to look for draws.

My confidence lies in the combination of the above two, and so to your question, yes, I am much more confident in the CL even when we MUST WIN.

Unfortunately, there is no way to solve the bus parkers in the EPL, other than to have a squad full of Gerrards and torres or players close to that level. No tactics are involved. You just can’t prepare for it properly. I even think that we have tended to be better in the second half of the season because these lesser teams actually come out to play in the latter stage of the season– partly because they maybe mentally too tired to be so focused on defending, but also because some of the teams are involved in relegation battles and actually need 3 points even against us.

As for our transfers last summer being a cock-up, I also agree it was a mess. But again, directing all of that to Rafa is unfair.

Firstly, let’s say that the total 40 million could have been spent on getting one David Silva or Villa (which I don’t think would have been possible, cos I believe you would need more money than that. Even Berbatov cost about 32 million). He may have been a hit. But to be honest with you, although either one may have made a slight difference, I still don’t think one such addition would be enough to compete with the depth that the mancs have. Ngog, dossena, riera may have been bogus, but at least we have someone to actually come in for an injured player. If we had only added Villa to our squad, with torres and stevie out injured, we still would be in trouble. Just focusing the riches on one rich player would have been too risky, and an approach rafa could not have taken given the circumstances.

Secondly, although rafa may have been allowed a total of 40 million, he was not allowed to use it (or allocate it) the best way he wished. Moreover, we do not exactly know if 40 million had actually been spent. The method and timing of payment is unknown, and as is clear, a 35 million upfront payment is not the same as having to pay that over several installments. Let’s say that we could have bought david silva for the price of robbie keane; I am sure that silva would have required that in one installment, and maybe that was impossible. We hardly know what the payment conditions were surrounding Keane (which is why some are even saying we have actually made a profit out of that). Just comparing the price tag and saying what could have been, and criticising only the manager is a bit too much in my view, mate.

And steve, I know you mean no harm mate, but you’re giving up too easily. Slowly but surely, there are signs of progress. You just have to admit that if you are a fact lover– we have never been so involved in a title race this far and still looked good in the CL. If we can start adding quality signings, one by one, I am sure we can do this under rafa.

It goes back to original issue. If we have someone so good in the CL, we have the right manager to win the EPL (because the latter requires no tactics. you say that the EPL is difficult to win than the EPL. True, but the only reason is because there are better players spread out in the league). All we are lacking is the players. If it was the other way round, then we would have to keep on making managerial changes– which is what Chelshit are doing.

Sorry about me typos, past midnight over here, and I am going home…..night,night.

sorry steve, I meant “you say the EPl is more difficult to win than the La liga”….zzzzzz

and i will go home, but let me just add that,

fungusface is hailed for having “his style” and always playing attacking football. Well, all I can say is stuff him. He is, in my view, one of the all time over-rated managers ever. He won nothing in his first seven years or so cos he didn’t have the players. Once he did, he started rolling away results. It is not a coincindence that he has rarely made it to the finals in the CL, let alone win it despite his dominance in the league. then just as the epl started to get more difficult, he needed to sign even more super players and ended up having one of the best squads in the world. When that happens, you have nothing to fear whoever you play, in whatever tournament you play. You see, he just relies on the abilities of the players and has no plan B. The only thing he may be good at is motivating the players, but so is Martin Oknobhead, so that hardly counts for being a legend. Never have I been impressed with the tactics of fungus, never. That is because he has no tactics. He is a fantasy football manager who buys all the best players and is allowed to (the annoying selfish git) and uses their strengths to win. No strategy, no analysis of the opponents, no thinking. I could go on about how over-rated he is, and how disgusting that such a old cock is considered even in the same class as our hardworking, classy scholar. Or Capello. Or Wenger. Or even Moanhino.

Right, I am sure you are pissed off with me all of you, so I am going home.

Hyde, in Fungas first 7 years he finished 2nd to us in 1988, won the FA cup in 1990, Euro cup winners cup in 1991, then finished 2nd in 1992 as well as finishing 2nd then in 1993 won the league. That’s not bad.

Anyway enough of Fungas. Lets talk about how to do better against the bus parkers. You say having a team of Gerrard’s would help. Certainly would. So too would putting more players in the penalty area. How many times do we cross a ball in hoping to find one striker amongst 5 defenders? The mancs have better attacking players yes but you take a look at how many of their players actually get forward and compare it to ours.

There are tactics involved in attacking play as well. Creating space with quick passing and movement, committing players forward. Isn’t that to be worked on the training pitch as well?

We’ll agree to disagree about why we’re better in the CL.

As for transfers. Mate I can’t argue with you about this if your going to question how the keane deal was structured and if we would have been able to get the same structure for David Silva/Villa etc…. Fucking hell. The point is this. You can get a bloody good player for £20m. If you can’t then the scouts need to be sacked.

I meant to say fungas won the league cup as well as finish 2nd in 1992. Also…. Mancs didn’t spend that much more than we did between 1990 and 1996. And the guy did win league titles with Aberdeen breaking up the Old Firm monopoly. You can’t call any of that fantasy manager.

I’m not a fungas fan at all. I can’t stand the cunt. But credit where it is due. He is a great manager, the proof is in the pudding.

I agree with LB. Fungus is a first class c*nt, but he has delivered. no doubt about that. we can question his ways, but not the trophies he has won.

However LB, and you might have read the Tomkins article on the main site, do you think if Fungus had taken over Liverpool in 2004 and had to compete with himself, he would have fared a lot better? Its an abstract idea, but I feel a good way to judge Rafa, specially if the yardstick is the most successful British manager in the last 20 years. And while we’re on Rafa and Fergie, just to even the playing field, do you think Fergie could have gone to Spain and taken Valencia to the title?

YNWA

LB: I like a lot of what you say but today you sound like a spoilt brat having a tantrum. A few weeks ago you were saying that Riera looked the business. Ngog is crap I’ll grant you that and should be no where near the team but he was £1.5 million. Dossena well he is the Italian left back I’m surprised he can’t defend but he has played better recently. Lucas when we bought him was wanted by all the top clubs in Europe unfortunately he hasn’t progressed, maybe that’s Lucas’s own fault. Robbie Keane huffed and puffed but let’s face it was a proven premiership player he should have done a lot better and that has to be his fault as well, although the whole keane saga has been a shambles.

In my opinion what is Rafa’s fault are some mind boggling team selections. Stoke all his strikers on the bench and not one being brought on. Skyrtle at right back when we a right back on the bench – madness. Only Torres as a recognised forward, it was a nap he would get injured that’s sod’s law.

When Rafa has spent big money he has normally got it right. Torres( a gamble according to most of the media) Alonso, Monster, Agger, Skyrtl. I think we have a good first 11. We need to back that up with good quality signings but will we have the money?

LB: Europe. We don’t park the bus. I have seen us take the game to lots of big teams and caught them unawares ie: Juve, Barca, Chavski at Anfield we went at them like a train. LFC of old played a cagey first away leg, trying to steal an away goal and then doing the business at Anfield. That’s the European way and in my opinion why Fungus face the whiskey drinking tramp had no decent record in Europe because as Hyde said he has no plan B all the top teams sussed him out. I can’t argue that taggart is a top class manager his record speaks for itself.

As regards his first 7 years err that looks suspiciously like a similar record to Rafa’s only for Cup winners Cup read Champions league. A record which you think is pretty good for the tramp but not at all acceptable for Rafa.

Kenny, today I’m rather fed up so you’ll have to excuse the tone of my posts. However I stand by what I’ve said.

A few weeks ago I thought of Riera as a player who started his LFC career well and then suffered a slum in form. Well that slump has continued and when I now look at it, the slump has lasted longer than the period of good form. So would you call that signing a success? A manager is rated by his signings is he not? When a manager goes to a club where the team is full of players he didn’t sign you often hear “lets judge him when he has signed his own players”. Well looking at it. Rafa won 2 trophies with a lot of Houllier’s players and now the majority of the team are his signings we’ve won nothing as of yet.

Regards the CL. I don’t think you understand the point I was making. I didn’t say we park the bus. I said we get the same ratio of draws than we do in the league. Its just in the CL you can get away with it. You are right that this is the European way, you don’t have to win every game. This is Rafa’s preferred way which is why we’ve been successful in Europe. However when put in a situation where consistent wins are needed he’s found it difficult to adapt.

In Rafa’s second season he said 75 points would be enough to win the title. I think this was more out of hope than an actual belief. His 2 La Liga wins with Valencia brought points totals of 75 and 77 points respectively. I’m not sure he has worked out how to go about trying to win over 27 games in a league campaign. Needing to commit to that number of wins goes against his philosophy in my opinion.

You can’t win over 27 games with a no risk philosophy.

Riera isn’t pulling up trees but I certainly don’t think he’s as poor as your making out. It’s his first season in English footy and he will need time to adjust. I also don’t think he is Rafa’s first choice either.

I can’t fault your reasoning with regards to a manager being judged by his signings, however if they are not the signings you wanted to make but rather had to make do with then I think the argument falls down.

I do think Rafa’s team selections contribute to our own downfall sometimes as I stated before.

What do you think of my thoughts on Taggart and his first 7 years bearing in mind rafa has had 5? taggart wouldn’t have got 7 years to win the premiership today.

LB, I remember Rafa was coming under some criticism in his first season, and people were wondering if the right man had been hired. Then Istanbul happened, and all the doubt went away, and people were saying that maybe (including myself, though I was willing to give 3yrs) he is the real deal. And now here we are 4.5 yrs later and people start to re-evaluate the honeymoon period and offer a retro-critique. And that’s what I’m doing now. I feel that Houllier’s last bunch of players are always a bit *too* harshly criticized, as opposed to Houllier himself. In the CL final, I facetiously always say that there was only one Benitez player (Alonso) involved in that game (Garcia phoned-in his performance), the rest were mostly GH players. I posed a question earlier in this post – how close would the 03/04 Liverpool team, come to beating the current Madrid team? Pretty damn close I think. We could argue the toss all day, but they’re not that dissimilar. I rate Mascherano, but not as much as most. Someone earlier said that Monster has more to his game than Hamann. Does he fuck?! Hamann had a range of passing to his game that Masch (David Batty?) doesn’t and he scored a few goals too. Is Smicer (I personally thought he was rubbish) any worse than Riera? It’s become a myth that Albert offers us width. Does he really? …”well, he gives us an outlet on the wing”.. That, is the most basic of tasks any player should have in his locker. I can understand the one-footed Babel cutting in, but Riera does it onto his weaker foot. wtf!!

being fed-up of bad footy, I posted a few months ago that we haven’t made that much progress, and I was slated for it. So I backed off a bit, but I have to stand by it now. Our back four of 03/04 vintage are just as capable as our current one. One couldn’t possible think that there is a huge difference. Then again, are we to re-define progress. One could point to our budget compared to the others, but don’t we give a good account of ourselves agianst them?

Steve the Red my comments in #86 were sarcasm.
I think we have every right to question Benitez on his team selection, and his unwillingness to correct that Team selection when it isn’t working..
I.E skrtel at right back, it was obvious after fifteen minutes that he was totally uncomfortable in that position, but Benitez wouldn’t make that change.Why have Darby on the bench if you are not willing to give him a chance to play?
Downing an average player at best has a field day down that left wing … but BENITEZ HAS A POINT TO PROVE TO SOMEONE, so he leaves Skrtel out to dry..

Ray Houghton talkin bout us

http://newstalkDOTie/newstalk/listen-live-now.html

Redscouse that’s a fair point, but it doesn’t take into account the fact that a youngster might just have gotten skinned more than Skrtel.

I’d have put money on Skrtel recovering and having a better 2nd half, the lad has had perhaps 3 dodgy games that I can think of, since coming to LFC, but has been a monster otherwise.

Had RB taken Skrtel off and put Darby on and Downing had made him look ordinary, the criticism would have been even greater.

Performances were poor all over the pitch and Rafa had only 3 subs to make. You could make a fair shout for replacing Skrtel, but its a defensive substitution when we needed to look for goals.
SG didn’t look like ever lasting 90 minutes and if anything, I’d have replaced him at half time.
There’s no factoring for Alonso’s passing game going awol, or Babel playing like a League 1 winger.

When one of these things go tits up, you can make a sub and change things, but when players are lacking all over the pitch, you really do have to hope for the best and bide your time, with your decisions.

I wouldn’t have made the decisison Rafa made, had I been stood on the sidelines, that doesn’t mean my (or anyone elses) decisions would have led to a different result!

And LB: I won’t go into all the players you listed, but you did give me a really good laugh including Kewell in that list!

I can count the number of people in here on one hand, who wanted to keep Riise. He was the Lucas scapegoat in every result we didn’t get last season… now he’s a better option than Aurellio, Dossena, or Insua??
Please!

Kenny this is not Rieras first season in English football. He played a season in prem with Man City before they cut him. Wonder why they cut him?…. So we’re now approaching end of his 2nd season in English football and you think he needs a 3rd to adjust? C’mon ken… And I cant wait for this Summer til we see Rafas FIRST fucken choice players bought and the end of all bullshit excuses. Roll on August is all I can say. Sorry Ken but I’m with Lb, just fed up.

If Darby was good enough to be selected for the bench, he should have been good enough to play.
I would have given him the start at RB over Skrtel.Why move Skrtel there in the first place?
He has been playing very well at Centre back with Carra.
Sami should have been one of the subs.
Then if Darby doesn’t work out, Bring on Sami, move Carra to RB.
This just makes much more sense to me,we weren’t exactly playing one of the top four.
How does a lad like Darby ever get to ” Cut his Teeth’ if not in a game like Boro?

Bloody Ngog seems to be good enough to play for Rafa, and he is absolute shite..

Oh but wait……Rafa bought Ngog, so he must be good enough for the Prem…

Steve the Red Do you think if Rafa hadn’t had his Rant we would still be
top of the league. I don’t i think Scum would still get their “favours”
just like every other year since the prem began.
If you look at any given season you will see certain decisions have
always gone Scums way ie
Penalties not conceded but dodgy ones given
Cards handed out but not to Scum players
Free kicks given in own box when under pressure
Goalkicks given when should be corners
Diving not getting punished
And extra minutes of injury time when they need it.
The only way to end corruption is to bring it to everyone’s attention
not sitting by and pretending it doesn’t exist
When good men do nothing the Devil succeeds ( a red devil in this case )
YNWA

Redscouse everything you said in 230 makes sense to me.

Digger assuming Rafa gets the money and were talking a lot of money
100 million minimum because 20 mil aint enough for a quality player it’s
nearer 30 mill and i think we need at least 3 without having to sell our
current good players.
The only way we can do this is for G&H to sell to someone with that kind of
money. Then if Rafa f*cks that up i will join your crusade,till then i will always
think he’s the best choice we’ve got, because the alternatives are are not up
to the job.

YNWA

PS Haggler was my all time favourite boxer and Liverpool is my favourite team
Thats 2 things in common at least
YNWA

Rome77, there is no arguement in the merits of what Rafa said about Fergie, but the timing was way off. Personally, I don’t think it really needed to be said all that much, but if you’re going to say it, get the timing right. I don’t really buy into the favours from refs thing. Ronaldo did get booked for diving yesterday. I’m not going to argue about every decision, because it really is down to interpretation. We get our fair share of decisions too.

And I also expect prices to come down for players in the current financial climate too.

Heh heh! Yeah I guess 2 outta 3 aint bad Rome. Those 2 and a half rounds btwn Haggler and Hitman Hearns are still the most brutal prizefighting I think I’ve ever seen Rome. What an absolute warrior. I was only a wee boy but I remember watching Haggler and thinking ‘HOLY FUCK’. It was scary watching him! But me da was happy when he won so so was I.

Btw Rome I dont think our budget will be anywhere near 100mil, nor will any other teams. Ours will be like last yrs; btwn 35 and 40mil. More than enough to buy a couple of quality players. I disagree with your 30mil evaluation of quality. Arsenal just bought Arshavin for 20mil -a player I’ve been crying for the last 2 windows – and he’s played last 2 games on right wing and been the best player on the park. Spurs got Berbatov for what 12 or 14mil right? They are out there bro.

Hmmm… Darby was on the bench so should have been good enough to take the field.

Okay

but Hyppia and Skrtel were both on the field, so by your logic, shouldn’t they have been good enough to deal with the ‘boro forwards?

I’m not for a second saying that rafa doesn;t have things to answer for, but I’m truly amazed at howmuch criticism he gets when he picks a quality player, who then proceeds to deliver a subpar performance… like it was some stubborn sub-standard selection he made to undermine himself and our aspirations.
That stikes me as bizarre.

I don’t know what’s going on in Rafa’s mind.

I do know that when the ball comes to you as a player on the field, you have a few options at your disposal.
Carry the ball a few yards.
Try to dribble past a player or two.
Pass it short, back.
Pass it short, sideways.
Pass it short forward.
Pass it long, switching play, across field.
Play a long ball forward.
Try to play some low-percentage pass through a defenders legs, to a double-marked player.
Or if in the right position, shoot for goal.

That’s pretty much it, lads.
Don’t matter if you’re playing in the Carling Cup, FA Cup, Champions League, Uefa Cup, or Premier League, one or more of the above list are your options each and every time you get the ball.

What I see is our players making the wrong choices all too frequently.

And I see Rafa standing on the sidelines giving them a right good bollocking a lot of the time, which leads me to believe, their inability to complete the basics of footy, isn’t about them sticking to some stifling set of rules he’s handed down.

Oh and I forgot…

when you don’t have the ball… move into a position that makes you the best option for a pass, and scream for the ball.

(you know, instead of watching the player who has the ball and thinking, hmmm, wonder what he’s gonna do with it.)

aitch…the standing around is something that has gotten to me in recent weeks. our players off the ball (at least that i can see on the tv frame) seem to stand still…

no one makes runs behind the defenders. no one makes runs into the box…when the ball goes wide, we dive bomb the box…but usually when our crosses come in, its towards one player with two center halves on either side of him.

thats what frustrates me most, our movement off the ball recently. i dont think its so much players making poor decisions, i think its players not having any choices of open men to pass to.

on another topic, i’m just sitting down to watch this 7 goal thriller between athletico and barca, and i had to come in and comment…(this is actually why i came on to comment, not the prior thought). at about 20 minutes in, daniel alves makes a run forward, gets tackled, and proceeds to roll around on the floor in a most outrageous fashion…the likes of which i dont think i have ever seen. he does this for a good minute. then they bring on the physios, then the stretcher, carry him off (with wincing facial expressions no less), only for the second he gets off the pitch, he’s up on his feet screaming at the ref to let him back on. i’m sorry, but this sort of thing should not be tolerated, and just as simulation on the field for a free kick can be given a yellow, i think if it becomes clear that a player has faked an injury to try and get another player a yellow, or to time waste, or for any other reason, they should be booked. end of. there is becoming far too many pansies in the game today. something must be done.

YNWA

*it should read:

“when the ball goes wide, we SHOULD dive bomb the box…”

Aitch no-ones saying Rafa selected Skertl at RB to undermine himself or our aspirations. We’re saying it was basically a dumb fucken decision! One that could have been corrected at h/t by which time it was crystal fucken clear it wasnt working!! Yet Rafa persists with it!! And Aitch Skrtel wasnt dealing with ‘boro forwards’, he was (trying) to deal with downing. Poorly!. He’s a CB who’s never played RB before and you seem surprised he was subpar? Frankly Aitch, your surprising me!!

Lads, enough about the Skrtel at RB decision. Given that Carra basically admitted to being too tired to play that position on the weekend, Rafa had 2 choices – Skrtel or Darby. Rather than give a youngster his first taste of the premiership against Downing, he went with his more experienced defender who hadn’t had a bad game in months. It wasn’t that crazy of a decision, stop being such fucking experts with your 20/20 hindsight vision. Looking at the team sheet before the game I thought that Skrtel should be more than capable of the defensive duties – he is a quick, strong defender after all – but may not offer us much going forward, but that’s a fair sacrifice if he keeps Downing quiet.

Instead he had an average game defensively and Downing got some joy down the left, none of which actually led to a goal. You’d think Downing had scored a fucking hat-trick the way some of you are talking.

press are suggesting atletico want arbeloa for 7 million pounds. i would hate to see him go, but if we can pay 15 million and give them arbeloa for sergio aguero, i would be a happy man. that would be the most feared strike partnership in the world. torres, aguero…ooh!

too bad. not gonna happen

Who plays at right-back then alec? As discussed at length already, we don’t have any cover out there, except for Darby of course (here we go again…)

Can’t see Atletico selling Aguero anyway.

“He’s a CB that’s never played at right back before”
Frankly Digger, it is you who surprise me?????

The idea that a well payed professional Center Back at a Top 4 Club, would be a Total Fish Out Of Water at right back, is astounding!!

I’m not suggesting Skrtel should be the best right back ever to don a right boot, but come on… the idea that playing him there was “a dumb fuckin idea” and that the writing was on the wall is crazy talk.

I seem to remember Rafa playing a left back in central midfield recently to the pre-match derision of many a fan… only for that player to excell in the position.
Yet all the credit went to Aurelio and not to Rafa.
In this instance, Skrtel gave his worst performance since joining the reds (and that had nothing to do with position… christ some of his supposed tackles were schoolboy stuff) and that is somehow Rafa’s fault.

Its easy to suggest that he should have subbed him at half time, but there was at half time, just as much chance of him having a better 2nd half.
SG was a passenger for fucks sake in the 1st, and I would have seriously considered subbing him at half time, yet he played quite well in the 2nd up until his injury.

Its all well and good suggesting Skrtel should have been subbed, but Rafa probably figured he was going to have to replace SG at some point, Babel at some point (that would have been my half-time sub) coz he was horrendous, and El Zhar… and that’s not taking into consideration cards and injuries.

On both goals, Skrtel was actually marking the guy he was supposed to be marking, it was others who dropped the ball.
Do you know who was out trying to cut out the cross for the 1st? Mascherano… because Nyppia got pulled out to the left coz Aurelio got caught forward… and Carra completely left his man, ballwatching for the cross.

Funnily enough the 2nd goal came down our left back slot too, with neither Hyppia and Aurelio picking up the runner, and holding for offside, which Carra blew by not stepping forward.

So why vilify Rafa for playing Skrtel at right back, when Ninja was not remotely responsible for either goal?

I just find that bizarre. We’re analyzing something that had little bearing on the result.

Darby is a RB.played there probably all his life.
FROM WHAT I.. HAVE HEARD IS PRETTY DAMN GOOD AT IT TOO…
Skrtel CB.ALWAYS PLAYED THERE.likes playing there. isn’t a RB never wanted to be one.
But is told that, that’s were he will be playing against Boro.

So let’s see who plays at RB Tomorrow against Sunderland.

Maybe MASHER,,will be given that job Tomorrow now that Skrtel has shown he isn’t up too the job..

I imagine we’ve all been reading the latest, why Parry left news. If not apparently he’s been attempting to sell the club for the last year and has no takers.
.
Subsequently our American friends are both in agreement he had to go. The claim is it has nothing to do with Rafa.
.
Well I love a conspiracy theory but I thought it was just shit. However if the stickling issue with Rafa was Parry, then he would have signed over the weekend. He hasn’t and was rather un-committal at a recent press conference.
.
Which then points me back in the direction of maybe we are still for sale, and he wants a contract with our current and next owners, all in one.
.
We tend to put Rafa on a pedestal as the most true and honest Manager in the league. However he uses the media more than most. Leaks information at press conferences. And no doubt wants his own position sorted out before some of his players.
.
The whole fucking lot of them are owned by LFC and should do there fucking jobs. If Kuyts holding or Agger are holding of a contract situation, then sell both of them ASAP.
.
Now back to the Boro game, as far as I’m concerned it’s a mental issue. I heard Marco Van Basten talking about his Milan team. He said or words to this effect. We were mentally strong, we were strong enough to beat the big teams and mentally strong enough to be the smaller one’s.
.
In regard to the difference between CL and PL. CL we can park the bus and wait for a set piece, just like Everton did with us in the FA, just as we did in Madrid. You get in or out, not relegated. You don’t get back into the CL by your position in the group stages.
.
PL you get relegated over a larger period so parking the bus and nicking a win is what keeps you up. You keep your status because it’s your bread and butter.
.
As for all the rest about Ninja, so fucking what we lost, that’s it. The whole team needs a kick up the arse. I sense there’s a real issue with the way Parry went, club for sale, peoples positions and Rafa’s situation.
.
It’s actually amazing we’re where we are.

I was not going to say anything but all the dummy spitting is just pathetic. Spot on Hyde, kudos to Atcich and Akka for carrying the fight. Guys it’s one thing to dissect analyze and suggest things might or should have been done differently but the way some of you go on you would swear you had a direct line to God and can foresee the results had they gone with your suggestions.

Firstly their first goal was solely down to Alonso, in a zonal marking situation you attack the ball he was more worried about the man and blew it hence the own goal. Simple and only one mans fault, hence his reaction. The second goal was down the left, firstly Aurellio was caught out of place pressing forward, Sammie was too slow to cut it off and Carra was ball watching and did not pick up the man free in the box. None of these where down to tactics, team selection ( Sammie being the only questionable one) or any other wonderful explanation that Rafa is shit and the sole cause for global warming.

We had opportunity after opportunity to score and created enough to win comfortably. We did not convert pure and simple. A Manager can only set the team up to create it is up to the players on the pitch to put the ball in the net. It was a bad day in front of the sticks where full internationals blew it. That’s it pure and simple.

Points:

Rafa did not loose us the match

Skertal did not loose us the match

Ngog is 19 and in his first season and he is shit? Give the lad a chance

Keane missed as many sitters and chose to go instead of fighting for his place. The smart thing was to recoup most of the money while we could as he would have gone down in price in the summer. Remember his choice to go.

The summer transfer budget was zero with the recouping of the money spent on Keane, the rest came from sales.

How Lucas gets drawn into this debate is laughable he came on as a sub, played decent enough and we were already 2-0 down. Some of you should actually watch what he contributes over an entire game instead of just picking up on one or two of his mistakes. There is a reason he is a full Brazilian international at 20 (22 now and in his second season, who long did it take wanker to adapt) I just think he has become an unfair scape goat for all that is wrong at the moment.

Dossena, in his first year, is also not as bad as some would like to make out.

Riera, great start, dramatic slump of late, also first year and he only had 6 months at Man City and they played him at left back. He needs a preseason and to up his fitness levels. For 7 mill he is not going to be a David Silva or Villa
When we criticize and evaluate please do it in the context of what we can and cannot afford. Our first 11 is as good as any but we lack quality in depth and that cannot be solved quickly with the transfer budget Rafa has. Especially with the injuries to Gerrard and Torres we have had this season. We have a lot of quality in depth but they are youngsters and it will take time for them to gain experience and make their mark, ask Wenger what he has won in the last 5 years.

Be very careful calling for his head, I would hate to think where we would be if he walked, we just might get Steve Maclaren with our massive transfer budget of 15 to 20 mill plus sales. 30 odd mill per year over 5 years will not help us catch Man U and Chelsea up over night. Oh I forgot we have, each year we have caught them.

LB winning the CL, FA and Super cup and finishing second in the CL as well as making the semi’s in 5 years make Rafa better than Fungus because he took 7 years to win an FA and Uefa cup plus a couple of second in 7 years. Hell if we finish second and win the CL Rafa could be knighted.

Rome, I am not saying that Rafa’s rant (sorry, can’t resist this particular literation) is to blame for all our woes since January 9, I just don’t think it has helped, that’s all!

I would hazard a guess that quite a few of us in here wish he had kept his mouth shut, if only to avoid the egg that he currently has on his face. It might be embarrasing to him personally, but I feel that as we all identify with LFC, it is also embarrasing to us as supporters, especially if you happen to know gloating Man.U fans, as I unfortunately do.

No, Rafa’s rant alone is not the reason for us faltering in the PL, I think the reasons for that have been well aired in this blog already.

Hyde, Max Munton’s article on the main site (Whatever happened to “walk on”?) could well have been written by your good self, I would imagine.

The line between supporters who feel that Rafa can still land us the title some time soon and those who feel he will never achieve it, is now drawn clearly in the sand. I would say that Rafa still has the backing of the majority of fans, but that those who feel he is incapable of landing the title are a growing number.

In an interview Rafa says that had Torres was not injured for so many matches this season, it would have been a different story.

I agree with Rafa but having said that dont you all think that by saying that he himself has admitted that we are woefully short in terms of our squad strength. You cannot replace Torres
but the sad fact is you need to replace him with someone who scores goals when he is injured. You need to have another striker who can bang in atleast 10-15 goals a season.

Steven Gerrard has delivered more than 10 goals. Torres same again. After that ? We dont have names to show. Dirk Kuyt needs to score more. Our midfield does not score that many goals(Xabi and Macherano). Albert Riera? No goals again.

Compare this with the team we want to beat. Rooney,Berbatov,Tevez and Ronaldo. To add to that Scholes,Giggs,Carrick,Vidic (All of them pops up wid goals).

We need minimum two goal scoring attacking players. Please sell Babel,Lucas.

Today we need to win. The league is not over yet.

And one more thing.. This whole idea of resting and rotating players. Its Rafa Benitez realizes that we simply dont have a squad which can cope with important players being rested for certain matches.

We missed somebody like Yossi on saturday. That tells the whole story.

The sad fact about the Torres injury is Rafa is using that as an excuse. He didn’t even play strikers at Stoke. He left both Torres and keane on the bench. It’s an excuse.
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Keith, alec and others, I would love to say give Rafa 20 more years, but the sad fact is he won’t be getting anymore money than he already has.
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We keep talking about time but the issue is money, he can have all the years he wants but I can’t see any upsurge in finances.
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The stadium is further away than ever, we should have had the new stadium in 1990, even now the outlook is grim.
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I honestly can’t see why he would stay, it’s only going to affect his CV. His time in the limelight will only last so long.
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No doubt he know more than us in regard to the club future, which is why I suggest he’s stalling on a contract.
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FFS, for all we know our owners may just turn around an sign Sir Alex when he retires from Man U, that’s how much they give a shit about loyalty, honesty and the Liverpool Way.
.
I notice another site is running a poll on Rafa, the figures so far are 7% sack now, 27% sack at end of season, 34% don’t sack at all, while the rest are undecided either way.
.
Rafa should walk while he’s still a legend because the boys up stairs aren’t going to do him any favours. However I will say he looked more relaxed at the Boro game than I have seen him in weeks.
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Probably the only thing that keeps him here is Madrid would be worse.

@Gazmaninaus

I agree with you. In fact i dont want to say this coz i will get the boot from many die hard Rafa fans.

To me, if we get knocked out of the Champions league by the QF stage, Rafa should go immediately. The reason i say this because if we get our desired Manager quickly he can have a look at the squad even before the season ends.

I feel Frank Raikaard is the man.

The amount of fans who don`t belive we can win the title under Rafa is indeed growing Steve but i bet a lot of these fans are somewhat swayed by the media.I for one think he`s the right man for the job,he just needs the right financial backing before we can truly judge this.
I don`t think there is any manager in the world who could come in under the current financial circumstances and win us the title.

Our main rivals have already much stronger sqauds and have the finance to strenghten their sqauds when needed,therefore we are always playing catch-up.

Fungus identifies his targets and the owners deliver.Yes,they took a huge financial gamble on getting these players but its paid off by them winning the double last year.
This is the difference IMO,they trust there manager to manage.The money men deal with the money and the football men deal with the football.

There`s stability and trust there.I`m afraid this currently isn`t the situation at LFC thus our position.

@timmytorres

You are saying that he is the right man to win us the title. I also agree that he has not got the right kind of owners and enough financial backing.

But some of his decisions have been extraordinary. When Benny Onion scored against RelaMadrid why was he not put into the starting lineup? The problem with Rafa is that sometimes he calculates for matches which are far too ahead.In that process he ends up loosing or dropping points in the current match.

I know had Rafa got the money he wud have done better but if Rick Parry can leave Liverpool,so can Rafa and leading all of them should be the two stupid owners.

Lads, can I just make one suggestion with a view to preventing this site being turned into one of those goal forums because some are already starting to come up with substitute managers at this stage and I think that is down right revolting regardless on which side of the argument you are on? I certainly think it is not liverpool-like to go that far at this stage.

Questioning the manager’s decision and all that, analysing what we could have and done, and even better, what rafa should do to better the next game are all good and well, and part of being a fan. We once had an extensive discussion (I think Mook was still around then) on each explaining what, in general terms, the criteria are for a manager to be given the sack. That was interesting as well.

But let’s just stall discussing who should come in place of rafa should he be sacked. I really find it insulting to Gerry’s efforts to maintain a high and informative blog like this. Let’s discuss that when Rafa does get the boot.

@Hyde

Yes you are right and even when i named Raikaard i didnt feel good about it. I am just sorry. The media just cant stop finding faults at LFC.

We came into the new year with such a high of beating Newcastle fair n square and ever since that things have gone bad to worse.

I have always maintained that the title race is not over. I want Rafa to stay. But sometimes it becomes too much to absorb. How could we loose at Boro? How could our defense(Perhaps the best in the league)concede 2 goals against Boro of all team.

Alec, when a player fakes injury it winds me up as well. What get’s me more angry is tackles like the one Nolan did on Victor Anichibe. There have been some disgraceful tackles this season.

Rafa should becareful with his contract because the owners could pull the rug from under him if we don’t beat Sunderland and get knocked out by Real Madrid. I’d like them to talk at the end of the season when they can properly evaluate our progress on the pitch. If we’re 3rd, 12 points behind the mancs with no trophy I wouldn’t be offering Rafa a new contract. If we’ve challenged for the title and won or got close to winning the CL then Rafa deserves a new deal.

Results business init?

Let me address Aitch and Keith regarding Fungas first 7 years and Rafa’s first – well almost 5 years at Liverpool. You’re both right its quite similar. But Fungas was also under pressure to keep his job. He was close to the sack in his 4th season in the same way Rafa was in his 4th season. Fungas kept the axe at bay by winning the FA Cup in 1990 which had more prestige in those days, then won the Cup winners cup in 1991 which again kept the fans happy and the board off his back. The following season he challenged for the title. And the rest is history.

At the moment Rafa is in the position Fungas was in 1990, rivals down the East Lancs running away with the league, struggling to sustain a league challenge, a lot of heat on the arse. So like Fungas in 1990, Rafa is going to have to convince his board and sections of the fan base that he’s the man.

Some of act as if Rafa should be untouchable and shouldn’t be judged against any criteria for success.

So according to you LondonBarnes it becomes very important for Rafa to win something this season or atleast make United fight right till the end.

If that does not happen it would be a difficult task for Rafa to keep himself here.

It quite difficult to compare Rafa and Fergusson. There is no guarantee that by not winning the title in his almost 5 years(like Fergusson) he is going to do what Sir Alex did for ManU.

People scream that he does not give the youngsters a chance, he puts in El Zhar for Benny and to be fair to the lad he had a very decent game up until he missed the sitter and everybody climbs on the bandwagon that Benny should have started. Yes he scored the goal at Madrid but he was also in the team that drew and lost the last few fixtures. You cannot have it both ways. This criticizing after the fact and if only so and so had played and this formation had been used and we had thrown everyone forward we would have walked the game is just nonsense and very simplistic and childish to imply so.

The players did not deliver and that is a pure and simple fact, we made and had the chances but we did not convert. Our defense, as some above mentioned, has been less than stellar this year and we have conceded sloppy goals. We have scored enough (3 less than the Mancs) and yes with all the chances we have made I would have liked to see us score more.

We are thin quality squad wise and a couple of injuries effect us more than ManU and Chelsea. Arsenal has suffered for that same reason without Fabrgas.

Everyone is screaming for Rafa’s head because we are not up with United, but why should we be when our entire squad of 21 is 50 mill quid less than just 7 of their players. We should be saying thank fuck Rafa has us challenging with the meager resources he has had at his disposal. We could be in Arsenals position struggling to qualify for the CL. Yes they are more of a direct comparison to us, resources wise, in fact they have more financial muscle than us, the only difference is that Wenger has had time to develop his youth, Rafa has not. If we cannot give him money to compete with the likes of Chelsea and ManU then we have to give him time for his youth policy to bear fruit that is the only way we will eventually get back on top.

With Pacheo, Nemeth, Anderson, Spearing, Plessis, Bruno, Ngog, Lucas, Babbel, Flynn, San Jose, Hammel and I could go on, are all under 22, they have to be given time. We are not a million miles off, our first 11 can beat anybody as we have proved this season already, it is just our strength in depth that has caused us to falter with the injuries to Gerrard and Torres not to mention the suspension to Alonso at a critical time.

I really, really think it is a knee jerk, unrealistic expectation that people have, who are calling for Rafa’s head.

Just think, if we did not have the injuries to Torres and Gerrard at critical times, plus a few other things, suspensions, few bad calls going against us, we could have, with this squad, won the Prem or come very close (we still might) How about the supporters giving Rafa Kudos for getting us this far with what he has had to work with, instead of bitching and moaning at the merits of starting Skertal at right back or El Zhar instead of Benny. Plus the small fact of the civil war going on behind the scenes. People are very unrealistic, we have no God given right to win the Prem just because we are Liverpool FC we have to earn the right and right now we have not invested enough into the team or failing that given it enough time. That is fact no and changing the Manager will not correct the imbalance that we presently see.

LB, a few questions for you -

1) At the start of the season, before Round 1, where would you have tipped us to finish? ie roughly what position and how many points off top? Based on a realistic assessment of our squad and “typical” injury concerns (say, same as last season).

2) If you were then told that Torres would start at best only half of all EPL games due to injury / return from injury (which would appear the likely overall picture by end of season), how many points would you have expected that to cost us?

Be honest – are we currently that far off what you would realistically have expected us to be?

I’ll answer both questions myself -

1) I bet a mate of mine that we would finish 2nd, with a title challenge, but eventually finish 5-7 points off the pace.

2) If I’d known Torres would start at best half the games, I would have downgraded that to 3rd place at best, and at least 10 points off the pace.

It is easy to take a macro look at things and find reasons why we should have won every single game that we didn’t – we do that every game, every year. But the big picture says that even the champions will play quite a few shit games, the difference is that they will have match-winners that find ways to get them the 3 points even when they do play shit. Man U are a clear case of this – Ronaldo is their #1 matchwinner, but after that they now have Berbatov, Rooney and Tevez (you could even throw Giggs in there with his season). Their results reflect exactly that this year – a stream of shitty 1-0′s throughout the year.

Let’s flip it the other way. How many points would Man U have right now if Ronaldo had only started 11 games instead of 22? Not as many as they have right now – even with their extra match-winners, they can’t cover his loss completely.

somnath07in, That was indeed the criteria I had for Rafa at the beginning of the season. Challenge for title please.

And I didn’t say I’d sack him I said I wouldn’t be offering him a NEW contract. There is still another season to run on the current deal.

The comparison with Fungas came about because Hyde had ridiculed the record of Fungas and I had defended the record somewhat. Aitch and Keith made the comparison of Fungas and Rafa and asked me what I thought and so I gave my take on it.

LB the very small yet so significant fact and difference between Rafa and Fungus, is that Fungus had the luxury to go out and buy anybody he pleased. It would have made a big difference if Rafa was allowed to bring in Simoa, Alves and all the other players he wanted to, think what might have happened, we could have had number 19 in the bag already. The United board did not say to Fungus, fuck that sign free players and you can only have your second, third or fourth choices or you have to sell before you buy or a CEO who thought he was a better judge of quality than the Manager. So by comparison Rafa is streets ahead of Fungus. It is very easy to play the if only game, but if we are going to compare records lets at least have a semblance of equality when it comes to judging respective records with respective means and support.

Timmy, I can only speak for myself, and I am not swayed by the media.

Rafa is a decent manager, but he is also a cautious manager bt design. I will not suggest any potential successors to Rafa because I agree it’s very disrespectful to a manager who has done all he can for LFC.

I take into account all the shit from within that he has had to deal with (Yanks & Parry) but I feel that Rafa’s mentality and the way he sets the team up is just as much to blame for our failed title challenge than any other factor. Even if he had more money to spend, I would still feel the same.

@KeithSA

Very well said. In fact i do agree with almost all your points but talking of developing these young players, i would like to say that when i see Rafael Da silva at ManU i feel that this guy is someone who really can replace Gary Neville. When i see Welbeck i get the feeling that he is sharp. Same goes with Evans.

Tell me how many of the players you named in Rafa’s developing program have featured consistently? Only Insua(Why he is not being played now?)When Arbeloa got injured, was there not a single natural RB in his developing program to replace him for one match? Why did he tinkered with Skertel?
Nemeth is a great striker and i have read good reports about him..then why does he not figure in Rafa’s match plans?
The fact is that these young guns are still not upto that mark. I dont say they cant but until they can we need able replacements for our 1st 11. Unfortunately we do not possess that.

I remember Damien Plesis who played great against Arsenal away last season. The thing is Rafa does not have the confidence to play them in high profile matches yet. So until that happens we need better substitutes.

@LondonBarnes

ok i got your point. Yeah not offering him just yet is a option. I agree.

Andy, my answers to your questions:
1) At the start of the season, before Round 1, where would you have tipped us to finish? ie roughly what position and how many points off top? Based on a realistic assessment of our squad and “typical” injury concerns (say, same as last season).

(My answer) I tipped us to finish 3rd but hoped to come within 6 points of the champions. I was looking at a points total of around 84. Which would be an 8 point improvement on last season.

2) If you were then told that Torres would start at best only half of all EPL games due to injury / return from injury (which would appear the likely overall picture by end of season), how many points would you have expected that to cost us?

(My answer) Well if you asked me this question before we made any signings in the summer I would say we’d be fucked if Torres missed half our matches and we’d drop many points. However with the £20.3m signing of Keane and continued development of Babel I thought/hoped we wouldn’t miss Torres as much if he missed a number of matches. Obviously neither worked out and we miss Torres badly.

Be honest – are we currently that far off what you would realistically have expected us to be?

(my answer) We are currently 7 points off the pace – effectively 10 points off if/when the mancs win their game in hand. I’d have hoped to be closer – say 5 points closer or so but to be honest what we are getting at the moment is what I expected. Just because I expected it doesn’t make it satisfactory however.

I’m not expecting a victory in every game and I’m aware the mancs have more match winners in their team. It’s why in June and July myself and Hyde in particular were begging for some classy fullbacks/winger(s)/striker. It’s why I wanted rid of the likes of Kuyt, Crouch etc so we could fund some good players. I said time and time again we only have 2 match winners and we badly needed 1 or 2 more. I don’t know if Rafa felt that way because he spent 3 months chasing Gareth Barry. We eventually got Keane and I was hoping he and Babel could be our 3rd and 4th match winners. Sadly both are competing for biggest LFC all time flop signings. They are in the Diouf and Cherou category in terms of performance I’m afraid.

If Ronaldo had missed half of their games it would definitely affect them but not as much as it would have last season IMO. I think he’s had less of an impact this season. Other players in their squad have stepped up at the right times – including their defense.

Insua is a left back and is the same age as Rafael so to replace Arbelleo would have been difficult. Skertal was a decent call over Darby, experience over youth and one that can not be called a success, but it did not cost us the game as some people would like to suggest. Ngog is just 19 and has been given a few opportunities to develop, Nemeth has been injured for most of the season. Spearing plus a few other did play in the CL so to say Rafa does not give youth a chance is unfair. We have a very young squad and need experience at times.

LB, not offering Rafa a new contact is as good as (or as bad as) sacking him, no? He will choose to leave and/or he will not be able to command the team.

Ok I’ll throw a spanner in the works, where have we improved. We’ve managed to take some points from the top 4. We’ve managed to throw countless points away to so so clubs, just like we did last year.
.
We’re still forced to use a striker in Kuyt as a slow as a wet week right winger. Where’s the cash for that posi.
.
Statistics tell us we’ve conceeded more goals, scored less, won about the same, drawn a bucket load more, and so far lost less. therefor we’re losing less and drawing more. However draws in the 3-1 system are sometimes as good as a loss.
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Wake up lads Rafa is not going to get bucket loads of cash. We need to stop making excuses or re-adjust our expectations. LFC is a club with winning history and mentality, however that was 20 years ago.
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In regard to bringing young players through, LFC is hocked to the max, they can’t afford to bring players through, we need players now to keep us in the CL. How many major managers bring young players through anyway. When was the last time the moaning one brought one through. He hasn’t.
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Personally if I was Rafa I’d leave before he ends up like Harry Rednap, good manager who makes do with what he’s got, because that’s all he’ll ever get.

Spot on LondonBarnes.

Also the development program which KeithSA talks about. I mentioned it just a while back. I think the only way we can come back to the top is with time. As Keith rightly pointed out, we need young players to develop. It will take time.

But when Ronaldo came to ManU, i think he was the same like Ryan Babel coming to Liverpool. Rest is history.

Difference is Somanth, Ronaldo got better and better. You could see the talent straight away and he made an impact from the off. He was bought for around the same money as Babel as well.

This summer is so important. We could have an entirely new board. Probably why Rafa is not signing anything yet. Say we get new owners and they want their own manager and sack Rafa. If he’s just signed a contract thats a major pay out which could have an impact on the transfer budget. Everyone should sit tight on the paper work until we know what’s going on with the ownership situation.

OK LB… so the crux of it is that you and I both expected roughly the same, even taking into account what we hoped for vs what was realistic.

The things is though, we all can’t help but want the world, even when things don’t go our way. No one can deny that Torres’ injuries have cost us, and NO ONE at the start of the season would have given us a chance to challenge without him starting the majority of games. So – we are not in a surprising position at all, but it is still frustrating the hell out of us and now some of us are trying to work out who to blame – and with the old adage of “the buck stops with the manager”, it falls on Rafa.

However, some of us just disagree. Football is team sport, the whole club wins (or loses) the premiership, not just the players and not just the manager. We all know it takes everyone pulling in the same direction, plus a few other things going your way, to win the premiership. Based on what you and I have just covered, the major thing which has probably cost us the most points is our lack of match-winners… and this comes down to:

1) Torres’ injuries
2) Keane’s ineffectiveness
3) Babel not stepping up to the plate

Keane was undoubtedly brought in as a match-winner, as that’s what he was at Spurs. Who would’ve thought he’d be so shit for us? Is that Rafa’s fault? I call this one at 50-50… Keane was shit, but I don’t think Rafa showed quite enough faith in him (though I do believe he did get enough chances – he just could’ve got more).

Torres’ injuries – no one’s fault, certainly not Rafa’s, if anything you would have to blame his role with Spain and playing the Euros after a tough first EPL season.

Babel not stepping up – I’ll call this 50-50 again, you can’t blame it all on Rafa, but you do want him to bring the best out of players.

So that’s how I see that stuff anyway.

Finally I’ll just say – you won’t see many premiers in recent history, nor in the future, who win the premiership without their best attacking player missing half the season. It just doesn’t happen. Even if the manager has found other match-winners to step up when he isn’t there. We can guess whether Man U would still win this year without Ronaldo, but the fact is he has started most games so the fact still stands.

I completely agree though that the absolute priority now HAS to be world-class players only – no more fillers.

Taking Andy’s point further..i would like to say that buying world class players at the right price. Is it possible? With Manchester City prepared to spend illogical amount of money,Chelsea still under Roman and ManchesterUnited always buying whom they want, i feel it will be difficult.
Have our owners got the financial muscle to spend $50m in one summer? I doubt that.
That brings us to the point of someone else buying LFC. The sooner something like that happens the better it is. Otherwise with the economic crisis it will take us well beyond 2010 to find suitors.

I think there has to be balance btwn developing for the future and trying to put the final piece of our present Jigsaw.

For the 1st case :

Probably we are going fine. Rafa can do with playing them a bit more often.

For the 2nd case:

We need to buy 2-3 players.

I agree with you Andy. We cant win with Torres not playing half of the games. But as i said earlier i still dont rule us out. I feel that there is another twist in this tale. ManU will drop points.

Andy, rafa can’t be blamed for the injuries to Torres. To be honest I feared Nando would have this type of season. He played more games last season than he ever has and then played a full summer tournament. All this under the age of 25. In terms of Keane and Babel I’m afraid the buck does stop with the manager. Especially with Keane who I thought was never made to feel comfortable. I think Babel’s confidence has been destroyed this season – this was sumed up when he asked to go back to Ajax on loan. At the moment he’s playing like Kluivert did for Milan. Useless. The players themselves are ofcourse responsible, they could have showed a better attitude and a greater desire to do better but I’m afraid the guy who signed them carries the can ultimately.

You can’t tell me that the £32m spend on Keane and Babel couldn’t have gone towards 2 class players that would have made a difference?

As Digger said the other day and I have said many times. Great players are out there at affordable prices. It’s for the manager and his scouts to identify them.

How much did Valencia pay for David Villa? £8.2m in 2005.

Berbatov cost Spurs how much? £10.9m in 2006.

Ashley Young cost? £9.75m in 2007.

Barca paid how much for Eto’o? £16m in 2004.

How much was Cahill? Santa Cruz? Antonio Valencia?

If we can’t pay £30m for a player maybe we need to invest in a world class international scouting network.

Let’s evaluate how the team has done compared with my expectations at the end of the season because right now it could still go either way.

Oh and just to address your point. Yes if a teams best attcker is missing for half the season the team probably wouldn’t win the league. I’m not expecting us to win the league but I would have liked to get close to give me something to believe in.

Keith SA, you made two points in #253 & 265 that I have to address. You said in 253 that Rafa did not lose us the match, the players did. The players didn’t perform, therefore, using your logic, Rafa is not to blame. Okay, I’ll give you that, and I’ll continue with your reasoning. So, when the players do pull off a win, is it the case that Rafa shouldn’t be worthy of praise? Again, this is your logic. Now in anyones mind, that’s flawed logic. You mention also (I thought Robbie-gate was put to bed) that Robbie chose to leave and not fight for his place. How about if you score two goals in your fight for your place in the team, and you’re dropped the next game? Would that indicate that you can’t win?

I’ll address another of your defenses of Rafa. You say that that our squad is worth much less than Utd’s, so it’s only fair that our expectations shouldn’t match their’s. Okay then, what’s the value of Aston Villa compared to us, or Everton, who knocked us out of the FA Cup. Should those two teams have lesser expectations than us? If they do have more humble expectations than us, they’re ahead of schedule. I would not use the value of our squad in an arguement because we do have very capable players (without getting into favourites). We did beat the two teams above us in the league.

And you really really think that it’s a knee-jerk to be calling for Rafa’s head. Well as regards the lads in here, I haven’t heard that yet. And, even if they are, it’s hardly knee-jerk after 4yrs. He’s doing the same things he did 3 seasons ago ffs.

Comparing Fergie’s first 5 years to Rafa’s doesn’t take into consideration that:
A. There was a European ban in force until the 90/91 season.
B. Before the Champions league came along, only the actual winners of the league entered the competition; 1st – 4th. Hence, numerous second chances to proceed.

And as for giving youngsters a chance, there is more than one way than just dropping in-form players. Introduce the kids by all means, but not at the expense of winning a must-win game.

To be fair, I only noticed Skrtel playing left-back after a few minutes, and thought it was odd, but do-able. But it became clear that the player in question was not deployed to the best of his abilities. Again, stubbornness was at play.

Alright Aitch I guess we’re just surprising the shit out of each other then! And Aitch I wasnt villifying Rafa for the result, I was villifying him for another bizarre decision in a season littered with them. I’m working from a body of evidence here Aitch, Im not some nut lone shooter! Anyway, if the day ever comes when Rafa plays pepe upfront and nando in nets it should be a scream in here reading some of the justifications for his decision!!

LB, I think what Andy is trying to say is that ultimately, if you want the premium product, you have to pay the premium price. Or otherwise you would just be gambling.

I think everyone knows that there are potential diamonds everywhere in the world at a cut price. Go to south america, and I think you will be able to find a 100 or so ronaldos. Even here in my country, Japan, there are players with bags of potential (not that I think they would cut it in the prem), and I doubt any of them would cost any where near 5 million.

However, there’s a saying in Japan, “A waste of cheap spending”.
Buying a player that is cheap but with seeming potential has a higher chance of failing. When that starts to amount, retrospectively, we end up thinking all of that should have been focused into buying one proven player since there is more chance of success.

All the players you mentioned, except for perhaps Santa Cruz, were all unproven at top level. Even Etoo, who was doing wonders at mallorca was considered inconsistant. In other words, all were a gamble.

When you are building a squad from scratch (which is what rafa had to do), you have to first make sure you have numbers (that you can trust), rather than just aiming for quality. So we had to make do with players like arbleoa, aurelio and benny. We had to add numbers by buying not-so-bad players for a not-expensive-but-not-cheap a price.

Now, I think we have a start of a proper squad. Arbie, carra, kuyt, benny and babel are all players that should be on our bench and utilised depending on our opponents or context. They are players that should not be default starters in the class of Torres or Gerrard.

I think this summer is where we need to really start spending big on “famous” names. In other words, we can and should focus money on players that everyone knows are gonna cost some money.

I think that is what Andy is trying to say.

Digger: Riera is in his second season, that’s right technically but I think you are manipulating the facts a little bit to suit your argument. When did he play? How old was he? What position did he play? How many games did he play? Now Guillem Balague said we were buying a much improved player than the one who played for city, one of the best in the Spanish league who only lacked one thing a bit of pace, this was the general view in Spain at the time.

LB: Ronaldo was identified and wanted by LFC er and by the way so was Berba. Ashley Young is a good young player but at £9 million not peanuts and I’ve not seen him have a good game against the big boys same as Abonglahor.

Aiyic: Fergie has taken advantage of the European Champions league 2nd chance rules think back to 1999. I actually think the Champions league should be precisley that.

Rafa for me has 2 main problems and sometimes your attributes can also be your weaknesses.
1. Stubborn – This single mindedness has proved to be a good thing but also very frustrating.
2. Using players out of position.

Finally keith makes a very good point with regard to LB’s comparision of Rafa and Taggarts first 5 years in charge. Rafa’s is probably better but he does need to step up to the plate. however Taggart did have a massive advatage he was able to go out and buy who he wanted. Jamie Carragher is autobiography makes a great point, it was fergie who knocked us off our f#X#ing perch we knocked ourselves off. Any good manager with a fortune to spend can go out and buy a title winning team; Dalglish did it at Blackburn. Taggart i fancy would not win us the title. To be able to cope with the Chav’s and win back the title he had to go out and spend a fortune the difference between a good manager and an average one is a good manager buys the right players more often than not.

Digger, Rafa did actually play Pepe out-field during pre-season one time; we’d run out of subs. True story that!

Should have “it was not fergie who knocked us off our f####ing perch”

I would add though, that financial circumstances would not allow us to spend as such, and so we will probably have to experience another frustrating summer of wondering if the newcomers are going to be any good.

Rather than getting a David silva, I think we will end up with someone like Tuncay (not that I do not rate him but you get my drift).

On a different note, it is not as if Rafa has completely missed out on buying gems on the cheap.

I know LB and digger do not rate kuyt, but as a midfielder I think he is still a great one and a type that is always needed, just not for every game (aka Ji sung park). He only cost 10 million.
Xabi alonso only cost 10.5 million. Pepe was a cut price of 6 million. It is not as if our scouts are complete failures at getting great players when they are still cheap.

In fact if the Chav’s had gone out and bought well after their title triumphs Manure would have found it very hard to get the upper hand back. LFC in the past also used to go and upgrade 1 or 2 players. Bob Paisley used to say a players not finished when he leaves Liverpool he’s just finished at Liverpool. That is what kept us top and that is what Souness failed to do. He sold a load of players and tried to revamp everything immediately.

I heard Spurs selling David Bentley…for around 10 million..

Hyde,
Would like to add to your list… Agger for 4 million

Kenny, the point was about Fergie’s first five years v Rafa’s first five, so whatever happened in ’99 is totally irrelevant. For those who want to compare each managers records, this is not something I would bring up as a defense for Rafa. They are totally differing circumstances. Don’t forget that Fergie came second, to our galacticos, in his second season. If, (like Taggart) we hadn’t been able to enter European competition, would one still believe that Rafa was the best man for the job? So, you see, one can’t compare them because there is no like-for-like.

aiyic I didn’t start the comparision LB did I think and you used it as well so I responded.

As regards the Champions league point being irelevant that’s not true it is. Your point 280 part B. If it was the old rules Rafa wouldn’t have won it. That’s true but by the same criteria taggart would have won it once in nearly 25 years of management now tell me that’s a good achievement!

Kenny, I’m not going back over all of Taggart’s achievements, or lack of. I know you didn’t start the comparison, but you addressed my point out of context, that’s all. To be fair to Fergie, I rather they won-it-five-times, than catching up on our league haul. I’m not a Ferguson apologist, so I would never say that a, hypothetical “won it once in nearly 25 years of management” is a good achievement. That’s putting words in my mouth.

My point is a good manager and that is what taggart is with unlimited resources should be able to stay at the very top. By the same token not everyone can have unlimited resources so Rafa has to make up that gap with superior tactical nous, making less mistakes with his purchases and also uncovering hidden talent. That cannot be done overnight! I don’t care who you are and Taggart has never done it or had to do it.(I’m talking while he has been at Manure for those who will jump on me about Aberdeen). Another thing people go on about hidden talent as if there are Messi’s and Ronaldo’s growing on trees. It’s not that easy that’s why it’s called hidden talent and why things like diamonds cost so much.(Don’t go on about the film blood diamond and how they hold the diamonds so the price goes up it’s an analogy)

aiyic I’m not putting words in your mouth. Tell me if once in 25 years would have been a good achievement was my question. I never said you said it. As it is twice in 25 years in a bit crap in my humble opinion. Although domestically you can’t argue with the whisky drinking tramps record.

I also think while liking Rafa as a manager that he is at the last chance saloon just as Taggart was. I think he’s given us a very solid base to work from we have a cracking spine to the team. Rafa has to step up to the plate. Sometimes things can go a bit stale or run out of steam and someone else has to take up the baton and build on the good work.

I think Rafa has done exceptionally well in many areas but where he gets undone is his tendancy to over think things. Stoke and the like just need to put out your best team and beat them. play your players in their positions and let them do the rest.

One thing is baffling with Rafa. Benny Onion last few games has been superb. Against Boro? On the bench.

As for Robbie Keane/Babel. LB I can’t agree with you over that one. Keane a proven prem player missed a bagful of sitters just as many as Kuyt. Babel could be a Tierry Henry but is wussie mentally. They are responsible for their careers working or not working out. And by the way most of the top teams were looking at Babel as well.

Aiyic just how many points have the refs give us this season ?
compare to Scums min of 12 points per season, while i think
the officials have cost us maybe 6 points.
As for Ninja his job was to stop any goals coming from the right
and guess what job done.
Digger I know 100 million will not happen under G&H but 30 million is
what we need to spend in todays money on World class players
that is the Man city factor for you.
I agree Arshavin is a bargain at 20 million but come summer his
price will be nearer 30.

YNWA

Aiyic you are twisting things to fit your argument, a manager can only prepare the team, chose the players, devise the tactics to suite the players that will create the chances against how he thinks the other team will play. If his players miss sitters how the fuck can that be bad management. The players themselves have to stand up and say we where not good enough and against M’Bourgh that was the case. I did not say that Rafa has not made mistakes of course he has, but in the same breath it is not his fault if Keane and Co miss the easy tap ins or we don’t get a penalty for a hand ball ect. It’s far to simple to call for a Managers head when so many factors influence a result, when it is obvious he is not managing in an ideal world or on a level playing field.

As for Babbel to blame Rafa is also stretching the point a little. He got injured while on national duty and has not been the same since. He had no preseason, went to the Olympics and has not shown the form this year he showed at the end of last year. He has had more than enough opportunities to get back to that level and I still hope he will.

Hang on who said Arshavin is a bargain at £20 million? So we are judging him after 2 games? He looks like he’ll be a success but a bit early to be calling him a bargain. £20 million quid isn’t a bargain anyway. El Nino cost pretty much the same. Not a bargain but worth every penny let’s give it a bit of time before we say the same about arseshavings.

LB: The 32 million quid you mention that was spent on Keane and Babel wasn’t spent in the same season. Keane was a proven prem player and we thought he would make a big difference, I don’t remember too many people saying he’s crap he’ll be a flop. Babel was £12 million and was thought of as a world class prospect not much more than Ashley Young and Theo Walcott and a few others you mention.

Ronaldos and Messi’s need to be nurtured from a young age. They also need to PLAY. If a teenager growing up in a foreign country feels out in the cold you can forget about getting the best out of him. When everyone criticised Ronaldo for his 20 step overs, diving and no end product etc Fungas belived in him and played him every week. Would Rafa have picked the winker every week at the time? Or would he have been benched for a worker like Fletcher? (This isn’t a rhetorical or sarcastic question btw).

Footballers are of course responsible for their careers but its a manager’s job to recruit the right players for his team and intergrate them. Keane was a proven prem player but do you think Rafa gave him the best platform to fulfill his potential? I don’t. Babel’s mental attitude is very dissapointing but what do you do with such a player? Either massage his ego with some Shankly rhetoric and put your arm around his shoulder or you get rid of him. Its Rafa’s responsibility as manager.

If I recruit a graduate to work in my team at work – as his line manager it is my responsibility to give him the best platform to do his job to the best of his ability. We’ll have regular meetings to check how he is getting on. I’ll boost his confidence by telling him what he’s doing well and I’ll identify areas that can be developed. I’ll ask him to be honest, to let me know if there is anything that hinders him from doing his job well. After all this if he is still not up to the job then I’ll have to sack him. But I’ll give him every chance to do well because him doing well reflects well on me and my department. Him doing badly reflects poorly on me and my department. The graduate’s career is his own responsibility but if he does his job rubbish its ulitmately my responsibility when my director wants to know why my team has not hit the revenue target. I’ll look an idiot if I blame individuals in my team that I myself recruited, trained and mentored.

Somnath07in,

In response to your post @260 i never said Rafa was the man to bring us the title.If you read my post i said he`s the right man at the moment under the current circumstances no other manager could win us the title.

I said until he gets proper backing we can`t truly judge if he`s capable of winning us no.19.

Steve i never thought you`d be swayed by the media mate i know your too intelligent for that to happen.I`m just saying a lot of crap coming out of peoples mouths nowadays starts with,”it was true what claridge said” or”it was true what cascarino said” it drives me nuts.

If Rafa ain`t the right man for the job..can someone tell me who me who is???

Lets pull King Kenny out of retirement..haha

LB: Good points and I can’t argue with that but who knows what Rafa is doing with Babel. and keane isn’t a gradute. at the end of the day hiring a graduate is not a guarantee and you yourself said you’d have to sack him if he didn’t shape up. Well maybe rafa will do the same with Babel but he’s got a lot of potential and it is galling when you see someone with talent but they are not using it sometimes you try harder and longer than you should. Fergie had more of a luxary with Ronaldo, he could afford to play him because the rest of the team was doing the business whereas we can’t afford any passengers.

I’m on my way Skeat no need to ask twice.

Also Winker did look like he had exceptional skill. he even showed exceptional skill. I don’t think he looked like a donkey at any time, what Fergie or manure’s coaching staff have taught him or maybe he worked it out for himself was how to put that talent to best use on the pitch.

Digger has said in previous posts that players like Stevie and Torres don’t need coaching – Really? What about Stevie’s scoring record before Rafa? Has Rafa got the best out of him? Maybe that’s not Rafa’s forte to put the arm round the shoulder of a player but there are people in the coaching set up who are their for that job ie; Sammy Lee etc. So it is not as if they are all alone by themselves to fend for themselves for pig’s sake!

I think Rafa needs to realise he is not dealing with machines. He’s dealing with human beings with emotions. It took Gerrard 4 years to get a “well done” what’s that about? Not every individual is going to have a Torres and Gerrard confidence. Both were 1st choice international superstars before Rafa worked with them. Emerging talent need personal nurturing in my opinion. Rafa fails in this department for me.

I do agree with that LB but like I said earlier there are coaching staff to make up the shortfall in Rafa’s armoury. Shanks would ignore players who were injured as if they didn’t exist but there were people like Rueben Bennett, Ronnie Moran, Fagan and the great Paisly to do the arm round the shoulder bit.

How I long for those days again. King Kenny and Rush up front, Souness in midfield, Hansen and Lawro in defence, Clemence in goal. Makes me well up with emmotion.

The debate is really heating up in here but I’m glad that it is at least civilized. I’m firmly behind Rafa and believe that if now that his hands are untied he will finally be able do make something happen in the transfer market. Think back to the players he has identified but Parry either dragged his feet or we were a million or two short. This gives me hope. I also think like many others in here that getting rid of Rafa now with the way things are at the club would be a disaster because I don’t think that we would be able to attract any other top class manager.

This whole season more or less Rafa has been taking a lot of stick for more or less everything that goes wrong or even when things go right he doesn’t receive the credit he deserves. The opposition almost always happen to turn bad just around the time we play them, weird how that works. Yes Rafa has made mistakes, no doubt about that. But the players have also let Rafa and themselves down, which ultimately leads the media to blame Rafa and people eat up. While Fergie and Wenger more or less get a free ride.

There has also been talk about Rafa using the media for his own interest. Well I can understand that it might irritate some people. But I think that if Rafa thinks that it might get him the power he needs to succeed, like control over transfers or control over the youth policy, then he should do it. I guess he is only doing what he feels might further LFC success. I also remember that it was Rafa would pulled the wool from our eyes and showed us that our owners were broke.

Rafa has had it rough this whole season, battling on all fronts, from our owners and Rick “the prick“ Parry to the media and I’m sad to say our own supporters. SO while you might not think Rafa is the right man it is our duty to support him while he is here trying to bring us back to the good old days.

Rome77, I don’t buy it, that refs gift Utd decisions. Referees don’t give preferential treatment to Utd. What, they’re all so afraid of Fergie that they favour them. No way! We got a fair share of decisions go our way in the past, and high profile ones at that: penalty in CL final, NO penalty when Kuyt pulled over Hleb in CL Qtrs, penalty in away to Atletico when Gerrard dived. There is a difference between not getting a peno for an unseen incident and blatant favouritism. Manu getting decisions go their way is an absolute myth I hear trotted out all the time. We well get our fair share. What they do get away with is jostling the ref, and that makes me sick, but they certainly don’t get 12 free points a season. C’mon mate!

I have to take issue with some of you
I feel you are being inconsistent in your critisism as far as the younger players are concerned
You for example (and I’m not picking on anyone in particular here) complain that we dont play Darby and then moan about Lucas or Ngog being included.
Sometimes We are not playing the youngsters enough like Babel and then we should drop them because they have a bad game, and your critisism seems to change depending on the previous game.
Also can we stop with the business of claiming a player from one of our rivals is the dogs bollocks after a couple of games and yet ours are shit and Rafa should never have bought them when they don’t hit the ground running.

Comparisions with Taggert and Rafa are really in all honesty irrelivent to the debate, the circumstances were not the same, the time was different, and it has no bearing on whether Rafa is a good manager or not, you should remember some of the shit he bought, and how disjointed that team looked while he was building it.
Some of you have short memory’s when it comes to Man Utd and yet dont seem to be able to remember how bad we have been in the recent past.
I said it before and I will say it again, because it should be repeated.
We are NOT the glory team of 20 years ago
We will NOT sweep all before us
And Knocking Man utd off of their F**king perch will take nothing short of a bloody miracle given our financial situation.
If I hear the phrase “we are Liverpool” chanted like some Mantra that means we should be winning the league and its only Incompetent managers holding us back I swear I will scream.
“we are Liverpool” means we are the best supporters in the world
It means we have a glorious past
And it means that with the right backing we could go back to that glory,
What it doesn’t mean is that we will automatically win the league if we get the right manager, and frankly it is niave of some of you to think that.
Our failure to acheive what so many of you yearn for, is not down to one equation, Ferguson would have won nothing if he had recieved the sort of support that Rafa has recieved, he acheived it with a good youth setup, almost unlimited financial backing and complete control of team affairs.
All of these things need to be in place for us to suceed, and for Rafa to get us even close in these circumstances is a testament to him.
But Forget Rafa, Forget whether he should stay or he should go, just try to get some perspective on where we as a club are at the moment.
When you have done that then maybe we can talk about who or what our mistakes are.
I Realise that the Rafa debate is being lost for those of us who support him and that we may well see a new manager at the club.
If that happens I want to imagine who ever you like in charge, you can pick your fantasy manager, BUT you have to give him a transfer budget that is laughable for a club of our size, a warring boardroom and a cheif exucutive who cant do his job and interferes in football matters.
Then ask yourself who he can buy, whether he can get them and how well they will play against that background.
If you still feel their is someone out their who can do the job better, then ask yourself what is the F**king likelyhood that he would even consider coming to our glorious club.
This post is disjointed and written in anger so I apologize in advance for any offence, but after you have all got over your personal slights, take a deep breath and join me in the real world

Guys..

Who do you think would be in the first 11 tonight?
Torres injured, Gerrard injured, Riera still out i think. Agger back injury

It would be Alonso partnering Monster in the center again, Benayoun in the hole, Kuyt as lone striker? Aurelio on the left while Babel on the right.

It would be interesting if Skrtel is to play as right back again tonight.. while Dossena should play tonight.

Hows that?

5 yearplan..

Totally agreed with you

One other thing
Still angry by the way, Winning another European cup would be wonderful.
The way some people talk about it as if its as important as a charity sheild just makes me wonder

maybe it is because we won it 4 years ago… while the last league title was 20 years ago..

Anyway, I wouldn’t mind Liverpool winning any trophies as long as they are trophies.

For the record, I always get behind my team. Always! I have missed only one televised game this season. I make either the most lame-arse excuses, or the most devious plans to get out of whatever to see us play. I’m even marching through the rain tonight to The Submarine Bar, where Aldo will be, to cheer the lads on. I do feel Benitez deserves another season, so I’m NOT calling for his head, but I do want to get across that I recognize his (apparent) shortfalls. And I don’t like when people can’t admit them either. All our managers had shortcomings, and I can go into detail, but our CLUB doesn’t have any. And…we should keep Lucas, despite the world and his brother calling him shit.

I like Lucas…When he played alongside Alonso.

5yearplan, I agree with you 100% percent mate. All that has to be taken into account when wishing for a new manager. But, with the players we have right now, we should be aiming for a bit of consistency, and when (and if) results do improve, then introduce a like-for-like reserve. And that is where my thoughts lie on the, damned-if-you-do-damned-if you-don’t, bringing through youth players. Let there be the reward of a re-call be what you get for playing well. Look how well it worked with Insua.

Beating Madrid of a Wednesday, and losing to Boro a few days later, throws the lack of resources arguement out the window. So this is where all my criticisms of the manager lie.

Totally agree 5yearplan.

Skeat, is Gerrard not ok for tonight?

I think he was injured from the Boro game… I thought..

Gerry, have you heard tonights line up yet?

Aiyac you say
“Beating Madrid of a Wednesday, and losing to Boro a few days later, throws the lack of resources arguement out the window.

No it Does not and why you would even use that as an argument is beyond me
Opinions are one thing and clearly ours differ, and if our manager has shortcomings then that is a point for debate, but our lack of resources is not.

And in actual point of fact, it can be argued that our lack of strength in depth due to financial restrictions is precisely why we can beat Madrid and then lose to Middlesborough.

For Example, we could have had a right back instead of having to choose to play a central defender or a youth team player there, or maybe a top class forward for when Torres is injured, you know like the 3 that Man Utd have

Well, we played against Madrid carrying Torres for 60 mins, and the player who actually scored, was then dropped in the next game. That’s the kinda thing I mean. And it’s not Rafa’s fault we have no other strikers??

We had Darby as a natural back-up when it was clear Skrtel was having a mare. Though I admit, I did think it was a do-able change, but it clearly wasn’t working.

Liverpool line-up in full: Reina, Mascherano, Carragher, Skrtel, Insua, Benayoun, Gerrard, Alonso, Riera, Ngog, Kuyt

that is one weird lineup. why is rafa unwilling to give darby a chance? this are the moments when you can see if a player is going to step up and take the pressure. this defines the roles of upcoming players. you have to give the youth their chance. oh well, let’s see how masch does

Liverpool line-up in full: Reina, Mascherano, Carragher, Skrtel, Insua, Benayoun, Gerrard, Alonso, Riera, Ngog, Kuyt_____Subs: Cavalieri, Dossena, Hyypia, Aurelio, Babel, Lucas, El Zhar.

That team on paper is well capable of winning.

Apart from ngog coming in for el zhar i actually like this line up. however looking at it the forwards should get a bucket load of chances……………. lets hope they take a shit load of them!!

Aiyac
We were talking about lack of resources
You said it threw the argument out, not sure what you are trying to say with your last post.

My point was, maybe I made it poorly, in which case I apologise, that we dont have the strength in depth and when we try to rest players or replace them because of injury we have to resort to playing players out of position or using youth players.

You could argue that we should have a right back replacement and Rafa is at fault for signing Degan, and maybe you would be right, But my point was that if we had the resources we would have somebody of the quality of Boswinga for example.
Remember what we paid for Arbeloa, not a lot was it and he is our first choice right back.

The reality is we dont have the money that the teams we wish to compete with have and despite having a decent first team, its when we delve into the second string players that we start to stumble.

One thing I must say though is, that I thought we played reasonably well against middlesborough until the Alonso goal, and then the players let us down.
I very rarely attack my team for lack of effort or guts, but on that day many of them shamed themselves.

Not an attempt to deflect blame away from the Manager, but I have rarely seen us capitulate so easily.

I heard someone mentioning Monster playing at right back days ago.

I wonder… Is mascherano playing at right back tonight?

—-reina——-
mascherano — Carra — Skrtel — insua
Kuyt — benayoun — gerrard — Alonso–Riera
—Eggnog

A win by at least 2 goals tonight

after all that draws… I don’t dare to predict anymore. Any kinds of wins would do fine for me…afterall, I am trying my best to stay awake to watch the match…(its 3:31am here in Shanghai)

5year, you’re right about Boro game, for most of the first half, it looked like it was only a matter of time before we scored. He have played worse this season and gotten away with it (Stadium of Shite). But the striker shortage does land at Rafa’s feet. We had Robbie (let’s not get into missing sitters and all that) until Jan. If he was sold against his will, that would have been known before hand that he would need replacing, and if Robbie decided at the last minute to leave, would it have mattered? Because he wasn’t getting into the squad in the last few games anyway. Finnan was let go too easily in my opinion. I know I’m alone on that one, so no need to chastise me.

Hey LB, just for the record, I never waded into the Fungus/Rafa early years debate. You confused me with someone else.
Just wanted to state that so people don’t come up with it as ammo later to throw at me.

Such comparisons are a theoretical debate… but they don’t have any real bearing since they managed at different times under different circumstance.
Just wanted to clear that up.

Now as far as today’s game goes…

I don’t give a fuck if Rafa plays Skrtel as a striker, Pepe in central midfield and Xabi in goal…
what I do give a fuck about is seeing…

11 professional football players able to trap a ball, pass a ball and put a shot on goal.

11 professional football players running into space and calling for the ball instead of watching to see what someone else is gonna do with the ball.

11 professional footballers who give just as much of a fuck about playing in an unglamoourous Tuesday night tie against Sunderland as they do about playing in the bright-lights, big-city atmosphere of “a magical European Night at the Bernabau” (or wherever)

11 professional footballers who repey the faith of their manager’s selection by putting in a performance worthy of the red shirt.

Frankly for 40k per week… regardelss of where you are asked to play… I don’t think that’s too much to ask for?

Monster playing right back.. hmm.. interesting

attack attack attack… we have 60% possessions…
i sense another goalless half time

we look very uninspired…no one wants to take anyone on at all. the passes are all sideways and backwards…it doesnt seem like anyone knows what they are going to do with the ball once they get it.

sigh. come on lads.

best chance fell to Sunderland… Poor taken shot by Jones, else we would be a goal behind now…

the FIRST TIME, yes, the FIRST TIME that riera takes his man on the dribble wide, we get a cross that leads to the goal.

take players on!!! where is the individual confidence?!

YNWA

EGGNOG – GOAAAAAAAAL

get in there son!!!

Eggnog!!!!!

take them both off. Crap

Sunderland should have scored, so many good chances..

Benny!!!!!

Dogface scored as well… so.. Chavs leading 1-0

Hats off to Ngog tonight. The boy played very well. But why when he’s confident and it looks as though he could get more goals Rafa fucking takes him off to put on a midfield player!? Incredibly negative.

why take off eggnog now?

because he hurt himself just now? Maybe just for precaution when we are leading now..

he IS our only recognized striker left

Game set…2 goals..and a clean sheet…good night.

5yearplan,
You should come here more often to predict the score.

but Sunderland left their scoring boots at home. Kweyn Jones should have score as early as in the 4th minute

Aiyic at first i thought you was having a laugh ,as all the above examples
are champions league not prem and you came up with 3 in 4 years
watch Scum games on MOTD and you may see what i see .
Thats the edited version and think what they didn’t show you.
Last game Wanker kick out in front of ref then gets his yellow
for diving, before he scored,
Rafael fouls in box as last man he should be off.
Last game of season last year Wigan should have had 2 pens
but that would mean Chavs would win the league and we cant
have that can we. I could go on but i can’t be arsed.
But i would say watch MOTD next season and keep a score of all
the wrong decisions and the points it brings for Scum and us then you
may see it.
YNWA

ngog clearly was struggling with cramp from the 60th minute. it was just precautionary i would imagine. dont push him too much.

a win is a win, but i think the last 30 mins would have been very tense had we not been gifted that 2nd goal. we need our bounce back…its clear we are lacking that bit of arrogance/confidence that we had earlier in the year.

YNWA

LB: The person who’s negative is you mate. hells bells we just won 2-0.

Aiyic: rome 77 has a point in my opinion a little bit exagerated but pretty much true. the peno we got in the champions league final was a peno. Winker should have been sent off with that petulant lttle kick and the ref was looking right at him.

I thought the 2nd half performance was pretty good. Once we scored I thought we played the ball around well. It showed to me it is a confidence issue.

LB – Ngog had done his dash, he wasn’t a hope in hell of lasting 90 minutes, he was stuffed after 60 mins. Stop jumping to negative conclusions!

Pretty decent.
Apart from Jones in first 5 mins Sunderland offered nothing.
The team held it’s shape and head and finally made and took a decent chance. Happy for the kid, good for him. As was remarked above, once we scored the second we looked really good: relief and confidence in equal amounts.
Pity we don’t get to see that more often.
Insua looked very up for it for me and this is a real plus this season. Benny too had another really good game and got stuck in.
Kuyt was running and making space particularly in thr first half when it was hard, pity he missed that chance at the death.
Riera is a bit of a puzzle. He was absent for the whole first half yet nearly scored with a snapshot. He didn’t seem to be available or up to it. Second half he makes the goal, set up Insua which should have led to a second and generally played great, an enigma this guy!
Just one thought, had the game gone on another 15 without us scoring I would have pushed Stevie up behind Dirk and Ngog and trusted Xabi with Mascher leaving just 3 at the back? What do ye think? Would Benitez have chanced a more offensive formation ?

Well hells bells and buckets of blood… confident short passing game, players showing/asking for the ball, players making runs… essentially, players earning their keep!

Perhaps Rafa should suggest their CL places are up for grabs prior to EVERY game?

I agree with the comment above about Riera, shocking in the 1st and a revelation in the 2nd… and he actually took two shots with his right foot… I nearly fainted when I saw him do the first one!

For all Stevie’s un questionable skills, the lad still can’t take a fuckin corner to save his life, but other than that, a good performance from the Captain today.

Nice to see Carra getting vocal again. He was constructively guiding his back 4 today and providing a good bollocking where necessary.

Insua reminds me more and more of a left footed Rob Jones with every game. Long may his development continue.

And EggNog showed what Rafa saw in him today. I know its only one performance and against Sunderland, so I’m not getting carried away, but since he’s been slated on here in the past, credit where credit is due, the lad looked good enough for the Prem to me?

The worry for me today was Riera’s first half performance and Skrtel looking very dodgy on a number of occasions. Does he need a rest? Let’s hope Agger is fit soon?

oh and what the fuck did they feed Babel before his introduction today. He’s looked like a 3rd rate player with two left feet in his last half dozen outings and suddenly he’s belting past people and putting shots on target??? WTF???

I think it was a decent performance and we’re pretty much fortunate that Sunderland’s wingers were not on top of their game e.g. Kieran Richardson….so, Masch in particular was not really tested and in fact made him look good at RB.
Both Kuyt and Eggnog had a lively game….their runs at times were really good
Carra had his usual good game…a few good tackles in the box
Of course the skipper is getting back to his game and very commanding and excellent runs (especially the first goal)
And my MOTM is Benny….he needs to be involved in every game now considering he’s the most in-form player at the moment

I was watching the game tonight in The Submarine Bar in Dublin: in the presence of the the LFC legend, JOHN ALDRIDGE. There was a Q&A session after game where the audience got to put their questions to John. After raising my arm for a few minutes, I got to ask – “of the squad you played with, excluding yourself, who alone would make the biggest difference to our present squad”? You could probably guess he said that John Barnes would be the make the biggest difference. But the elaborated to say that if (obviously hypothetically) Digger was playing, he would at least turn half our draws into victories. Other questioners asked about the current situation, but he didn’t add to anything that hasn’t slready been said either way. Though he did say that we were alright down the middle but out wings were “shite”. He also mentioned that some of our squad wouldn’t make the reserves of his era. When questioned about typical incredulous Rafa decisions, he expressed the same bemusement as most. He didn’t want to be drawn on political Parry issues, but felt that Keane was treated abysmally.

I asked later on a one-to-one – “who of his era would be an unsung hero in our present lot?” He answered that Ronnie Whelan, or Steve Nichol would make a huge difference. I said to him that I thought Steve McMahon would be his answer, but he stuck with his original choice.

Rome77, I came up with the decisions we got that sprang to mind, so don’t expect a season-by-season exposE. In short – it’s a cop-out for Rafa apologists (whether you’re one or not) to say that Manu win due the refs bias. Not this day and age, with all the cameras at the grounds.

Gerrard definitely dived in the CL final. I’m glad we won and all that, I do admit amongst ourselves that we got a decision our way. ht tp://w w.you tube.c m/watch?v=uVb2gbMtN3I
Watch after 33 seconds, if you are honest with yourself.

Tonights game reminded me so much of a typical Kenny Dalglish team performance; nothing out of this world, but professionally dealt with. What a difference a few days make in football! Mascherano was a revelation at RB (Not to me though). Ngog is far too young and promising to be written off just yet. We dominated without being a constant threat, but we fully deserved our triumph.

Just watched the match, what a solid performance Insua did his job
and so did Ngogg, El efi cito did well at RB( good call Aiyic )
and Benny continued his run of good games since his fathers visit.
Aitch It may have been the Captains armband around his hand that
made Babel play well (notice he wouldn’t put it on his arm )

Aiyic .Why don’t the Refs use the cameras to make their jobs easier.
Is it Because they will lose the exuse of ” Didnt see it”and “It looked a foul”
and not forgetting “it looked offside / onside” .
maybe you should have asked Aldo his thoughts on “favours”
And as far as Istanbul goes we should have had a pen just before they
scored their second.
Although i do think we get more respect from the Refs in Europe.

Kenny your right it may be exaggerated but 12 points will come from us
dropping 6 and Scum gaining 6.
YNWA

rome, Babel had the armband coz SG walked off with it, instead of handing it back to Carra. Babel was only carrying it until we got the coner, when he gave it to Skrtel to ferry back to Carra. (that’s why he didn’t put it on his arm)

But hey, maybe you’ve struck on something. Rafa should have a 2nd one super-glued to the fucker’s hand if it’ll make him play like that.

Comment #251 I suggested that Benitez would Play Masher at right back..Maybe He should call me before he makes his team selections for the rest of the season..

Good result..some good Football.. we looked a lot fresher and hungrier for the ball.
Benny Onion and Kuyt worked their socks off.
I agree with the comment about Riera.. nothing in the first half , but he came to life in the second.. His cross for the second goal. was excellent.

Hi all !

I just wanted to know that dont we have any other RB in our squad apart from Arbeloa and Deggen? I knw Carra is hesitant to take that role now but i was just wondering, no one else in the enitre squad?

Performance was good. We won. I have mentioned earlier also, this race is not over yet.

Nice professional performance last night I thought. Only saw the 2nd half but Benny and Insua were best for me. Such a shame about Saturdays debacle now…sigh…oh well. A weeks rest and preparation should see us ready to eliminate zee galacticos next Tuesday. Our starting 11 and formation will be intriguing given Arbeloa will still be absent. Will Rafa sacrifice his midfield security blanket to play him RB? Doubt it, need him too much in front of back 4 for a game like this. Interesting line-up….

Oh is it sure that Arbeloa is not gonna make the Real match ?

Who does rafa play at his position?

ayic your on drugs mate if you don’t think Gatuso clipped Gerrard’s ankle in the champions league final. I’ve watched it a thousand times whether it was mean’t or not it was a peno as he was bang in on goal and look at the reaction!

Excellent point Rome 77 I’d forgotten about the hand ball in AC milan’s area just before their 2nd goal in fact a hand ball which was not given and they went up the other end and promptly scored.

Well it was widely reported Arbie would be out for 3wks Somnath and I’ve heard nothing since so Im guessing he’s out next Tuesday. My thoughts exactly, who do we play at RB? Surely we cant play Masch there can we? These are the games Masch was bought for, his forte, to sit in front of our back 4 and shut the giants of Europe down mofo! You will not pass! I think Carras gonna be asked to go back to the well one more time and Dagger or Sami step in CB.

Yes thats the most expected lineup.I would like to see Agger being played along with Skertel. Carra will have to go back to RB.

I think Aurelio will come back in place of Insua.

What i was asking along with it was do we have anyone from our reserves who can step up in these situations n play at RB? I mean someone who you all think can be given a chance?

Kenny talks about Hillsborough…

ttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/7921890.stm

You guys reckon Ngog will start against Real Madrid if Torres doesn’t make it? I’d reward his performance against Sunderland. Before the match Rafa said the players need to impress in training and the Sunderland match if they want to feature against Real.

My team would be:

Reina
Carra, Skrtle, Hyypia, Insua
Masch, Alonso
Kuyt, Gerrard, Riera
Ngog

Subs: Torres, Babel, Lucas, El Zahr, Darby, Aurellio, Cavelieri

Masch played alright at right back although we had 70% possession meant he was never tested. I wouldn’t be playing him up against Robben. Looks like Benny is trying his best to step up to the plate. Good on him. Riera’s right foot is an embarrassment at this level. Insua impresses me every time I see him play and should be first choice in my opinion. Having said that there is a good argument to go with Aurellio’s experience.

@ LB

I dont see Benny in your squad for Real. why so? Is he suspended?

I think we should go with Agger instead of Hyppia. Aurelio would be a better choice simply because i think he will offer a bit more from set pieces. But that again is negated by the fact that Gerrard will feature this time.

Ngog should start. I agree too.

lads riera is suspended for real game. to be honest im glad his performance last night was still rocky. i no he set up the first goal but it was the one an only time he got round the right back…. not good enough.
I personally think the arby is gonna make a return lettin mash back in front of the back four.
As for insua christ let him play for no other reason than he’s a fuckin lucky charm!!!

Yeah! Riera looks out of touch.

I messed up leaving Benny out!! And forgot about Riera’s suspension. Let me revise the team:

Reina
Carra, Skrtle, Hyypia, Insua
Masch, Alonso
Kuyt, Gerrard, Benayoun
Ngog

Somnath, Isn’t Agger inured?

Yes he is injured. I thought he will be back for the RealGame. He didnt travel for the 1st leg match and also didnt feature for the 2 league matches if i am not mistaken.

In that case we have to go with Hyppia.

I might be wrong but we’ve won every game Insua has started in haven’t we?

@LB

Oh so you are also going for the lucky charm factor? Given what we saw at Madrid, i think we can win even without Insua’s lucky charm!!

I dont know who Rafa plays at OldTrafford. I think a lot will depend on that factor.

Someone else also pointed out the same. Good though for him and LFC.

Ngog reminds me a little of David Trezequet. He’s that kind of player that nobody knows what he’s going to do next – including himself. He needs a little bulking up, as he’s still that bit lightweight, but I’m sure that will get sorted. What a class header by Gerrard to set up the first goal. Did anyone think it was significant that Gerrard hunted Ngog down to congratulate him?

There was booing when Lucas came on. Shameful! You just don’t boo the red shirt, especially (and this what annoys me the most) when we’re winning the fuckin game. These are players that I think we *should* keep, they’re definitely quality, but still a little underdeveloped – and where better than Liverpool to get developed? Insua needs plenty of games now, the lad is a find-and-a-half and is a major hole filled, considering the (imho) probable departure of Dossena.

Yes Dossena should leave. He does not give us anything extra. Once Riise was sold i thought the replacement will be someone who will have more control and skill going forward. But Dossena has been a let down.

Insua looks a gr8 player and all of us agree. PLesis is another player who should be given some more chance. I am looking forward to see Nemeth sometime in future playing for the 1st team.

In between i wanted to know, why is that the Independent(NewsPaper) always comes up with a biased view against Liverpool?

Aiyic, I must say I didn’t hear any booing. If there were boos though maybe it was for the decision to take off Ngog. I was rather annoyed he got the hook while playing the best he ever has in the red shirt. It reminded me of Robbie Keane vs West Brom. We don’t have a game for a full week so the lad could have played another 20 mins no?

Do any of you lads know if Arbeloa has any chance of being ready for the 2nd leg against Madrid?

Also, what is the nature of his injury?

Masch will be at his best protecting the back four, so if Arbeloa doesen’t make it Insua could play right back and Aurelio (a natural full back)
could fill in at left back. That’s my idea anyway. Let’s see who’s fit and what Rafa decides.

Torres may be back in time, if not I think Kuyt will lead the line. I think this because I know how highly Rafa regards Kuyt, and will be looking for industry as much as anything else, and will definitely be expecting the main striker in this match to double up as his first line of defence. Kuyt fits the bill. Rafa will consider Ngog to in-experienced to be able to deal with such a double role. If Torres is fit to go, he will be asked to do the same as Kuyt will if Torres doesen’t make it.

Babel. with Riera suspended, will Ryan get a start? We would imagine so. If Kuyt starts up top, I would go for Benny on the right and Babel on the left.

I don’t know if Agger is fit to go either, he is taylor made for this game though, and I think he would give Madrid something else to worry about, being an outlet for our defence. He is the only centre back we have who looks really comfortable carrying the ball out of defence, and in my opinion is one of the best in the game today at doing just that.

Last night’s win will have helped as we prepare for the Madrid game. It’s one of those nights that I’m sure we would all love to be at Anfield for, and I believe this team has a real chance of lifting the trophy in Rome.

Reds 2 Real Madrid 0

Booing Aiyic Liverpool supporters don’t Boo youngsters or so I am told by Digger I thought we always encourage and get behind the team and while I am on that subject just a professional performance Digger, not well done Rafa for getting the tactics and team selection right, is it only his fault if we loose and the players if we win!

I also miss all those people who were calling for Ngog’s head the last time out, not good enough, get rid of him.

LB how the hell can you have a go at Rafa for subbing Ngog when he was knackered and suffering from cramp. That is the easiest way to pull a muscle. Hell the boy showed some good touches and a glimpse of what we can expect going forward.

For all the people who says that Rafa does not give the youth a chance, last night we had two 19 years olds on the pitch, three 22 years olds ( the subs), two 23 year old and 25 year old, the rest except Carra where 27 and 28, just reaching their prime (28 to 31)

Funny how fickle we supporters are.

Sorry lads, that was meant to be Insua at left back and Aurelio at right back (If Arbeloa is still out) as Aurelio has more experience than Insua and would probably be able to adjust a bit easier.

My team would be pepe, carra skrtel sami insua dirk masch xabi aurelio stevie and if fit nando. That team makes us very strong down both flanks and the middle. Cant see Madrid getting any change outta that team. Give Aurelio all inswinging deadballs and let stevie and nando do their thing and we’re on our way to the quarters. I know its hard on benny but we’re gonna need dirks engine and indefatigable defending for this one. He may start though if nando cant as dirk will probably be moved upfront. 6 days…

aiyic i agree I think we should try and get Babel and Ngog onto a bulking up program! They both need to put on some muscle to get stronger and it will improve there game! remember henry when he started off was also small in built, even that scum bag fag wearing number 7 for united was small! maybe they should try out some EAS products and start weight training in the off season!

Keith, Ngog was looking pretty good for a player that was knackered with cramp right up to his subsitution. He didn’t seem to be flagging at all prior to him being subbed. I’ve seen players like Kuyt look knackered and stay on for the full 90 mins many times.

I’ll give you Insua and Ngog as Rafa giving a couple of young players a rare chance to impress but come on. Babel was an £11.5m signing. Full international. Giving him a game every now and then is not giving youth a chance. Its like buying Messi and Ageuro now, giving them a game and calling it giving youth a chance. Or Fungas taking credit for giving Rooney a chance. Rafa clearly likes Lucas, and if the boy turns out to be a very good LFC player Rafa should get credit for that.

My criteria for giving youth a chance is bringing in a young player who has not established a career yet, giving him regular opportunities and rewarding good performances by giving him a bit of a run be it from the bench or the start. Ngog, Lucas and Insua come into this category. Masch, Skrtyl, Babel don’t count in my opinion.

I’ll give credit to Rafa if he rewards Ngog and Insua with a start against Real Madrid. That’s if Torres is still injured in Ngog’s case.

I thought Kuyt was poor against Sunderland and also against Boro so if its him that leads the line against Real with Ngog on the bench what message does it send to the youngster? I’d play Kuyt but on the right wing and Benny on the left.

I’ll also say that the Real game won’t be straight forward. We don’t do things the easy way and I doubt Real will be going out with a whimper.

ebi – Kop End, Ngog is 19 and should get bigger naturally when his body matures. He’ll be in the gym no doubt as well so he’ll bulk up a bit. Babel is big and strong enough already mate, unless he’s going to be a WBC Light Heavy Weight championship contender.

My apologies Keith, my mate just told me that Ngog was indeed suffering from cramp. I must have missed that.

Keith I was watching on setanta and I never heard any boos when lucas came on or after. Incidently I was chuckling to myself when his header was saved near the end, I was thinking to myself ‘pity he dident tuck that away, keith would have been unbearable tomorrow!!’ Heh heh! Anyway, if he was booed that is indeed fucken disgraceful and those who are guilty should be ashamed of themselves. And Keith (once again) those boos were directed at RAFA that day vs fulham last November, nobody else.

And yeah Keith, professional is exactly what that was last night. Nothing fancy, nothing special, just a professional 2-0 win against a team we should beat 2-0. Tactics?! Its fucken Sunderland! Go out and BEAT EM!! Whaddya want me to do Keith? Pat Rafa on the back for doing his job? For beating Sunderland? At Anfield?! Beat Real nxt Tuesday and man.ure the following Saturday. Now thats what your negotiating a 16mil contract for Rafa…

aiyic,
Is the submarine an LFC pub?
I go down to Dublin with work a bit, but I’m always looking for a decent place to watch a match.

I didn’t see the game last night, so I can’t really comment on it. It sounded like they played well though, according to reports I’ve read.

Digger: I must agree with you there. Against teams like Sunderland no thinking needs to be done just go out and play your game and let them worry about us.

LB: Rafa has built a young team that surely should be worth a bit of praise. We have a very low average age and if you take the Big Finn out of the equation I would say it’s as low if not lower than the arse’s.

I`m heading over to the game next tuesday and its nicley poised.This ain`t a foregone conclusion by any means.

Ngog IMHO ain`t good enough to start against real.Granted it was a decent performance and goal last night by all accounts(i didn`t see the game i was working nights) but this is a different level all together.He`s a young talent who is learning his trade in the PL.Long may his progress continue.

I think torres will be fit,if not Kuyt has to lead the line,simply because he`s experience with benny and babel(with captains arnband wrapped around his fingers!)on the wings.Carra could slot in at RB,i think he`ll use sami before a fit agger purley because of aggers long lay off.I`d love to see agger play but its seems to be too soon.

Kenny, rafa has built a young team yes. I don’t doubt that and that is not my argument. My argument is giving young, emerging talent a chance. Rafa should get credit for bringing good young players to the football club. Players such as Reina, Alonso, Torres, Masch, Agger, Skrtyl could be the spine of our team for the next 5 years. None of these players though are or were emerging youth players when they got into the LFC first team. They were all already full internationals with a number of years experience at club level. The reason they were already top notch is because somebody else saw their potential and didn’t hesitate to throw them in as teenagers.

My criticsm of Rafa is that he is loathe to give the untried emerging youngster a decent chance. Nuture emerging talent like Barca did with Messi, like Milan did with Kaka and Pato, like we did with Fowler, Mcmanaman, Owen, Gerrard, like Arsenal did with Fabregas….

When Fowler came through and scored goals in the league cup he didn’t get benched or put back in the youth team the following game. Evans soon benched Ian Rush and put Fowler in the side. Ngog scored and looked good against Sunderland so we’ll see what rewards that will bring. My guess is it will be the bench in our next 2 games.

My concern is that despite our youth team winning the FA cup in 2006 and 2007 and the very young reserve team winning the 2007-08 league title nobody has been given a decent chance in the first team yet. Especially the forward players.

Danman, The Submarine practically is, a Liverpool shop. Though it has lost it’s appeal in recent years. The fan club run meetings from it. Utd fans aren’t all that keen on it though. I find it amusing if Ireland are triumphant, and the “Ireland” fans start sing YNWA. Ha, you can spot the Irish utd fans because they’re not singing it.

I can’t believe the shit Rafa is copping for putting Masch at RB instead of Carra. It’s a fuckin witchhunt I tell ya. Go to F365 to see what I mean. Rafa is actually to patient with these hounds.

Aw come on LB, that is such a conceptual debate.

I don’t think anyone in here would suggest that if we had a Fowler, Owen or McMannaman, (or Kaka/Messi for fucks sake?) waiting in the wings, that they shouldn’t be given a chance, but we quite simply do not have anyone of that calliber. We just don’t!

We’ve got some promising youngsters who just might come good, but hardly anyone that screams, “holy shit, have you seen this kid!”

Of the players that have been given a chance, only Insua has looked anything like having the potential to make it at this level. He’s looked like a young Rob Jones since his first game, where by comparison…

Ngog only really showed his stuff yesterday,
El Zhar has blown warm and mostly cold,
Plessis hasn’t even looked tepid and in his last outing looked a fish out of water in a big way,
Darby blew warm but was far from convicning (would like ot see him get a chance again, but there’s so much on the line now, it’ll take injuries to see him season)
and the others simply haven’t shown enough to warrant inclusion at this point.

“Nuture emerging talent like Barca did with Messi, like Milan did with Kaka and Pato, like we did with Fowler, Mcmanaman, Owen, Gerrard, like Arsenal did with Fabregas”

You are a funny, funny man, LB! Rafa doesn’t have anyone that is an emerging Danny Murphy, let alone a fuckin emerging Steven Gerrard! (not at this point anyway!)

And Digger, I was watching Setanta too, mate, turn your sound up, Lucas was booed when he came on. Fortunately the boos didn’t continue, with his every touch of the ball, as they did for 60 odd minutes in that truly embarrassing performance by the Anfield faithful some weeks ago.

Oh and if that header would have gone in, it wouldn’t have just been Keith that would be unbearable today!

Ferguson giving some ‘friendly’ advice to the referee in the tunnel coming out for the 2nd half at St James’.

Some things never change. Wonder what would happen if Rafa did the same?

Aw for fucks sake, anyone see the mancs 2nd goal? Jesus christ…. And Robbie keane scored and had 3 assists tonight, good player that lad…. Man now I’m just depressed again! Thank fuck villa lost!

Lads I think the argument over young players is fruitless. I personally don’t think our club is in a position to blood young players.
.
Our results have been tight and drawn, we’re not getting to the 3-0 up point with 20 to go. Thereby giving a young player 20 in a high profile game. Plus we’re in a tight tussle with several other teams for the CL berth.
.
The teams that usually bring players through are about 7 and down. Everton bring more players through, one out of necessity and two out of league position.
.
I’ll give Rafa this, he’s between a rock and a hard place on this issue. We all love seeing new faces but our club just can’t provide it at the moment. Truth be known our club would be fucked if we missed out on the CL.

Gazman, it would help if we scored an effing goal in the first half now and again. This way we, maybe, would be able to blood a few youngsters for the last 15 minutes…

Lads what do ye all make of Stephen Ireland. Everytime I see this guy play he impresses the shit outta me. Outstanding football brain with the ability to match. I really think he’s the kind of creative mind that could turn 7 or 8 of our annual 10 or 12 draws into wins. Depending on Hughes’ fate in the Summer and who they buy, I wonder would a cheeky 10mil bid bring him to Anfield. Relatively cheap solution to our problem? Thoughts anyone?

Digger, I’ve got a lot of time for Stephen Ireland. He’s a savvy littleplayer and Citeh would be further down the league without him for sure.

I think Citeh’s big problem is gonna be keeping the workhorses like Dunne and Ireland happy, while bringing in the big money boys like Robinho. I don’t think its a coincidence that their form went out the window in December.
If you were one of the hard-working “no-names” that had got them in a promising position, how would you be feeling with all that cash being bandied about?

Think about it, Stephen Ireland is to City what SG is to us really, and he’d have had to ply his trade next to a guy who was making 10 times his salary AFTER insane signing on bonuses…. but S.I. was the guy doing the biz before his arrival. (mute point now, on Kaka, but it won’t be in the summer, when the madness starts for real.)

As far as we are concerned though Digger, where would you play him. He’s not really a right winger, and he’s not gonna get selected in the middle over SG, Xabs and Monster.
Arguably, he’d be, maybe a better 4th option than Lucas, but he wouldn’t come to us as a 4th would he?

What chance of us getting someone like Kenwyn Jones up front? And I actually liked the look of Benjani before he went to City but he’s gone crap now.

Rafa’s gonna have a tough summer. We need certain positions sorted and fringe players haven’t deelivered. Who gets another season and who gets cut loose? It sounds like a simple question, but you have to figure in bedding in time, both in the squad, in the city, in the language and culture.

Looking through the results this season we have only scored 13 goals in the first half!!

The reason I looked at our results was because of Middlesborough getting beaten tonight. 12 times this season a team has taken points off us. Know how times that team went on to win their next game? Once! Spurs way back in November. We have let far too many points go this season against, dare I say it, lesser teams.
Boro beat us 2-0, Spurs beat Boro 4-0.

Still as someone said above, at least Villa didn’t win tonight

The Newcastle game tonight epitomises Fergies rein at ManU. He bought a violent bulling game plan with him when he came to the premiership. He encourages his players to carry out assassin like professional fouls. He loves his players to dive, spit at and kick their opponents, be vulgar, aggressive and disrespectful to the referees.

Take tonight for example, when Ronaldo got a slap around his over inflated head and went down like a ton of bricks, the replay clearly shows him elbowing the opponent in the stomach first.

I will never acknowledge Fergusons record as anything than a stain on the game. I despise cheats, and cannot wait to see the back of him.

Yeah Michael I was thinking the same on Saturday when City continued their awesome(!) away form this season by going to West ham and picking up a smashing 1-0 defeat. Trust me Michael, sometimes this season I’ve just had to blank our beloved LFC out of my head to preserve my sanity. Aitch I’d play Ireland off Nando for every home game with Stevie and Xabi in middle behind them. No need whatsoever for Masch in those home games…until Nando and Ireland have done the biz, then bring him. Thats way i’d roll!

Yeah but then we’d have to endure 90 minutes of SG sulking around the field coz he’s not far forward enough to score wonder goals and be the headline in the Echo!

You really think he’d sit still for Ireland grabbing his headlines???
I don’t!

Aitch, if Stephen Ireland changes his name to Stephen England; problem solved! “Gerrard passes last defender to assist England to glorious win!

As Gerrard done something to annoy you Aitch ?

YNWA

rome, while it was made somewhat tongue in cheek, was there not some validity in my question?

There’s a reason many fans call him Stevie Me!

…but having said that, for the record, pound for pound and when on song, he is simply the best midfielder in the country.

Digger you crack me up you should have been a lawyer (maybe you are) you never concede a point. We should just go out and beat teams like Sunderland and our win was a professional showing by the lads and tactics, team selection should have no bearing. I will give you that. Then conversely we should just go out and beat teams like M’Bourgh, Fulham etc, but when we draw or loose you have a right pop at Rafa for getting it wrong! Maybe a tad unfair with your point of view no?

LB the point is that yes Barca and Milan did bring through Messi and Kakka but who else at the same time? One player in an established lineup with tons of experience. Our lads have not shown that kind of quality just yet, I have high hopes for Nemeth, Pacheo and Bruno and a few others, but Nemeth has been injured for most of the season and Pacheo and Bruno are 17 and are only in their second season. Lets face it La Liega and Seria A is tame compared to the tackles that fly in, in the Prem. Ngog and Insua are getting their chances at 19 and when we played Ngog how many people called for his head and said get rid of him on this site alone. One decent game and know he does not get enough of a chance. Fucked if you do fucked if you don’t springs to mind. I like the lad and I think he has talent but it will take time to settle and adapt to the demands of the Prem, it’s his first season, how long did it take Wanker to come to the fore, in his first two seasons he was anonymous.

We have a very young team in comparison to Chelsea and ManU, you can throw in AC and Inter as well as Barca and Madrid, how many youngsters do you want us to throw in? Torres 25, Masch 23, Skertal 24, Babbel 22, Pepe 25, Arbelloa 25, Lucas 22, El Zhar 22, Insua 19, Ngog, 19 with the general consensus that a player reaches his peak between 28 to 31. One of the reason why I am so optimistic is in a few years we are going to be right on top of our game with a great balance of experience, talent and youth. Also we will have a team that knows each other backwards and any new additions will slot in that much easier. We have a core of players that with a few additions will up our level considerably. I had hoped it could have been this year but we were shown up in certain areas with the injuries we picked up, we just did not have the quality in depth and our youngsters are not quite ready.

Keith just one small thing I’d like to pick you up on – perhaps in the older days when the demands weren’t as great, a player would reach his peak around 28-31. These days with the demands of the premiership (plus all other competitions, including internationals, mickey mouse overseas tournaments, etc etc) the players are playing more games then ever. I would expect that quality young players who are coming in now (not just at LFC) will have a shorter career expectancy than 10, 20 or 30 years ago. No matter how well they are looked after, I just think the demands will be too much and by the time many are reaching 30 they will already be on their downhill slide (and/or suffering too many injuries). There will be exceptions of course(those players who take exceptional care of themselves and are blessed with naturally strong bodies) but I’m talking about on average.

The current crop of players can perhaps claim this age as their peak, but I don’t think the next generation will have that luxury unfortunately. It’s happening in a lot of sports – as the pace and intensity increases, it becomes more and more a younger person’s sport.

That’s not to invalidate the points you were trying to make though, just pointing out my opinion on that small detail. And I guess it means that in my opinion, it makes developing young talent even more important than ever, because I reckon the older players are going to fizzle out quicker than ever as time goes on.

Rafa in an interview in 2006:

“It’s simple. When you talk about players, you talk about personalities. And then it is the difference between you and me. You go to, I don’t know, a theatre, and you see some things and they see other things because you are different. It’s the same with players. Some understand the style of football, the culture, the language. Others don’t. It’s important to know all the things that you can before you sign a player. I always say that you can have a good player for winning one game, but you need a squad for winning trophies. You need good professionals because at the end you’ll be with them for one, two, three, four years, not just one game. And then sometimes he’s a hero to the supporters. They see him and think, ‘Why isn’t he playing?’ But maybe he can have one good game but not the next four. OK, you can use players who can amuse the supporters, but if you want to win trophies you need workers, for 90 minutes, every week, every training session. Workers with enough quality for winning.”

Good piece Hyde. Basically it’s an explanation of why Rafa loves Dirk Kuyt so much!

Aitch: I can’t believe the way you moan about Stevie G. He’s kept LFC afloat on the pitch almost single handedly for years. He isn’t the best midfielder in the league I think he’s the best in the world. As for the “who’s best Lumpy Lampard or Stevie G?” debate that is laughable. lampard is a very very good player but I mean is there really a debate to have? Stephen Ireland does look a good footballer, he can pass and score and moves well but for me we should be looking for a Deco(in his prime), Arshaving type player, maybe a Benny Onion but more quality more consistent.

Carrying on the debate about Stephen Ireland I think we should give Alonso more licience to get forward. Monster can protect the back 4 but every time I’ve seen Alonso play for Spain he’s all over the pitch dictating play having shots on goal passing and moving little one two’s.

Great quote Hyde and Andy I know where you are coming from, but bear in mind that with the new scientific approach to careers, diet, fitness, psychologists, medical expertise and improvement of treatments as well as the increase in the size of the squads, it helps balance out what you are saying. I am of the opinion that careers are extended rather than shortened in today’s game, maybe not so much in football but defiantly more in some sports. With the overriding proviso that they are good enough, the journeymen, so to say, are discarded quicker as new talent emerges. Gerrard is a prime example of him hitting his peak at 28, years he was exceptional as a youngster but he is now such a complete all round player and a lot of that is down to Rafa and his style of management whether some people here want to admit it or not.

What also tends to happen, if not managed properly is if you have a talented youngster in an average team he is overplayed and burnt out quicker because of the over reliance. Owen is a prime example of that.

I think the equation is fairly simple when it comes to these debates you have to back the Manager and his staff to integrate the youth into the senior set-up and to know when the time is right or how much any talent can cope with. It will vary from player to player. They are not going to get it right all the time, but if we back them they should get it right most of the time. After all, their job is to get results and nobody holds people back just to piss of the fans, that goes for playing players ahead of other players, or having faith in certain players like Kuyt or Lucas. It is certainly not sentiment if he sticks by them, Rafa and his coaching staff have decided on the worth of each and evry one of the squad of players and plays them accordingly

If you don’t trust them with that decision, by all means call for his head and ask for somebody’s whose judgment you will trust. It is far to easy to sit on the sidelines after the fact and fantasy manage and think all your pronouncements are spot on and play the only if game. You don’t have to live or die by those results because there aren’t any results to judge your decision making on. Everybody is safe in the knowledge that no matter what they say it cannot be verified or judged in the real sense and where it counts on the pitch.

I see our net spend over the last 5 years is 108 mill according to published reports, 20 mill per season, Cheslea and ManU over 200 mill and don’t forget the strength of their respective squads compared to ours when Rafa arrived.

Oh yes we should be walking away with the quadruple with this type of investment.

Aitch, I’m a funny, funny man eh? When Gerrard first got into the team how good did you think he was? You’re gonna tell me that you knew he was class straight away eh? Myself I didn’t think he was anything special in his first 12 months or so developing in the first team and the stats show it some what. 1 goal in his first 44 games for the reds.

Collectively you guys reckon.

1) The prem is too tough a league to blood youngsters in the way Messi, Kaka and Pato were given a chance early.
2) We are under pressure to win trophies so we can’t afford to blood youngsters in the way Everton do.
3) Despite beating every other youth team in the country consistently the players just aren’t good enough.

We’ll have to agree to disagree on this issue but before drawing a line under it I’d like to make this point.

Our reserves beat Man Utd reserves 2-0 last season. In the manc team was Pique (who is now first choice centre half at Barcelona) Evans (who played 8 times including CL games for the mancs this season and looked great before getting inured). Wellbeck (who has played 8 times for mancs this season and scroed 4 goals).

Our boys seem to go backwards whereas others look to be developing.

The way Newcastle gifted the mancs that winner last night was so typical. However the mancs did gift Newcastle the first goal. And we did gratefully accept a Wes brown/Van der Sar gift at Anfield back in September….. I don’t think we can blame luck at all. We’ve had our fair share as well.

LB: I think you are right to a certain extent, however (I’ll draw a line under the discussion thank you very much not you only kidding) I think if a team is still very young as is ours you are asking for trouble blooding to many youngsters. I also think it is tough to blood youngsters when the games are really tight as they have been for us which is our own fault for not putting the games to bed. If we were 2-0 with 60 mins to go it’s a lot easier.

As regards Pique well the mancs didn’t think too much of him did they? How old is he now? For Wellbeck and Evans read Insua and Ngog.

I would like to see our boys making it impossible for Rafa to ignore them though because by all accounts nemeth etc have bags of talent.

Am I right in saying that Nemeth is a full international for Hungary? I thought he’d scored as well.

Keith, Gerrard was approaching his peak when Rafa arrived and I think his management style has helped Gerrard become a great alround player. Gerrard has the personality that responds to Rafa’s style which if you believe the autobiographies by Gerrard and Carra is to point out the negatives, strive for perfection and not really give praise. It would seem Torres has this attitude as well. I think with Nando he is just enjoying not being in the Atletico glass fish bowl where the pressure on him was immense! Rafa definitely sets the team up to play to his strengths as well. Credit to Rafa for that.

What about the players with a more fragile mental make up? The ones who need to be told they are good? The ones with a more difficult personality to manage? Say a Paul Gascoigne just to give an extreme example. Or an Anelka.

Some of you guys mentioned Stephen Ireland, he’s not the old fashioned honest pro. The guy has pink allow wheels on his range rover, refused to play for Ireland and if anything his game has improves since linking up with Robinho, Elano and co. Rafa didn’t like when Crouch was getting attention and was robot dancing and enjoying the hype. I doubt he’d go for Stephen Ireland’s ‘mentality’.

£108 million net spend. You sure the manc £200m is a net spend? Up to end of last season I read Rafa had a higher net spend than fungas since 2004.