Great Blog Gerry, artificial intelligence than natural stupidity must be one of your best lines yet.

Great blog Gerry. You ever need a dig out with fixing that laptop then give me a shout. Im in south Dublin, particularly Tallaght a lot as thats were my family are from, and have a bit of experience in that field.

Anyway, I think its do or die tonight. We need this win badly for obvious reasons. But fuck would I love to win and shove the victory down those peoples throats who are writing us off at the moment.

Im not feeling ultra confident as our form lately is patchier than a pirates face. I just dont know what team is going to turn up. Hopefully its the one who beat the scum to a pulp. Usually though, when Rafa and the team are under pressure and when their backs are against the wall they seem to come out fighting and get the win.

I’d say our team will be: Reina, Insua, Agger, GreekGod, Carra, Monster, Lucas, Onion, Kuyt and maybe Aquaman with Torres up front. With prob Carra playing at right back. The thing i’d worry about would be the lack of playing time the centre backs off GreekGod and Agger have had together. So Rafa might just go with Agger & Carra at centre back with Darby at right. Either way im going for a close 0-1 win to us with a back to the walls performace. Come on the reds!

Great blog Gerry,

Just a note to any Irish supporters who happened to witness Ronnie Whelan’s tirade of abuse against Rafa on RTE last Saturday. To those of you didn’t see or hear about it he basically said Benitez was looking to get a big job in europe and was taking Torres off to save him for Lyon and that his days had to be numbered. I won’t go into it any further because its clearly the ramblings of a bitter twisted ill informed moron who obviously has some other hidden agenda at play, maybe he applied to some junior coaching position in anfield and was laughed out of it, but what ever the reason I feel he is at this stage nothing short of a disgrace. I used to admire him as a player for both Ireland and Liverpool and while he was clearly talented in his hey day his recent behaviour over the last season or two shows he was never exactly the brightest spark. Even Souness who can be a right pain in the ass at times at least has the decency to make logical fact based arguments, even if I don’t always agree with him, I still have respect for the guy. Whelan on the other hand is now offically dead to me as a Liverpool or Ireland player. I think he should be utterly ashamed at his lack of dignity and respect for the club who’s supporters worshipped him and paid his wages. RTE while at best half decent, honest commentary.. at worst a poor cabaret show, should think long and hard about continuing to give this imbecile a soap box. They’re already tarnished and deteriorating reputation may finnaly be put to bed with the likes of UTV and Sky if this continues.

Sam

Long time reader, first time poster. Very excited for tonight’s game, as I am for every game…because watching the game is fun right? I read a lot of these posts and wonder why some of you bother watching if you hate Rafa and his choices so much, what enjoyment are you getting out of this? It almost makes me sad for you. Enjoy the game, because it’s beautiful!

(My Dog’s name is Rafa, his collar will always be Red)

Excellent gerry just like liverpool,when the chips are down you come out with one of your funniest ever blogs.

“And you just know that you are totally out of luck when the camp gets hit with a virus and bloody Voronin doesn’t even catch it.”

Fantastic. anyways i’m just putting all my faith in the the rafaman. If its meant to be,then we shall see. Though rest assured i’ll be cheering us all the way home.

COME ON YOU MIGHTY REDS!!!

Gerry, your not a big fan of Voronin then? I personally think he is quite useless. Definitely in the Sean Dundee category.

From the guardians…

“….And in the Times, it’s a really bad idea for Kenny Dalglish to become the Liverpool manager again, and “a huge leap into the unknown”, which is putting it quite mildly.
….”

Not a very good time for this rumor to surface

“similarly ignorant people I’ve been hearing from lately and blame it all on Rafa Benitez” ..awesome Gerry

“And you just know that you are totally out of luck when the camp gets hit with a virus and bloody Voronin doesn’t even catch it.”

I would treat this statement as a compliment for Voronin?…err… because he is stronger and healthier than the rest??

Samul – no I missed it but a couple of people on here filled us in – basically Ronnie Whelan is the epitome of the old adage that footballers shouldn’t be allowed to speak – Souness isn’t far off it either – they have been listening to Giles and Dunphy too much.

Said it on the last blog Reds to win Aquilani to come off and score the last goal -

An Linn… “cheese eating surrender monkeys”???
(post405 in last blog)

My hat is off to you sir and thanks for the gut-wrenching chuckle!

Oh and LB, I argued with you and Digger in the summer that Andy would show us what he was made of this season.
He really looked up for it in pre-season, but I suppose it is now time to admit I called that one about as wrong as one can call.

I still wouldn’t quite put him in the Sean Dundee category… when he goes, he’ll likely do well elsewhere… but he’s had a few opportunities this season and he just simply hasn’t grasped them.

The sooner he’s moved on (perhaps we can package him with Babel in a swap for someone who can actually play football) the better for all concerned.

90% of retired players talk out of their ass hole. I think Rafa should have a go at them. Or Sammy Lee should. I’d blatantly call out Souness, Whelan and the Sly Sports panel and ask what teams they managed and what trophies they ever won as a coach. These guys are fucking idiots and need to be called out as such.

Any fan that wants Rafa sacked – I’d just like them to give me a convincing argument that our results would improve this season if he were to be sacked. If no convincing argument can be given then I suggest you fuck right off to a Daily Mail blog.

A club should only sack the manager if it is clear that a new manager who is available could do a better job. Otherwise there is no point. Anyone who can’t understand this concept should not be allowed to communicate amongst adults.

The reality is this. If Rafa walks or is fired we’d have Sammy Lee in charge until the end of the season. Then come next summer our board of directors would try to seek out a new manager. Probably one who we wouldn’t have to pay compensation for. Is anyone confident that Hicks/Gillett/Purslow/Ayre would have the first clue as to who is a decent manager and who isn’t? Could they even come to a mutual agreement as to who should be the manager?

Then the most important question. What manager would be willing to take over a club with expectations of winning the CL and PL but no money available for transfers? What manager would put his reputation on the line working for Hicks and Gillett? A pair of cowboys that can’t even give the manager a transfer budget let alone the funds. If anyone thinks the likes of Hiddink, Lippi, Mourinho, Capello would work under those circumstances they must be living in a fantasy world.

Hicks/Gillett: “Hello, Mr Lippi. Yes you’ll have a transfer budget of £20m but that includes your own wages and that of the playing staff.” “And should RBS want interest paying, any funds generated through player sales will have to go towards that”. “Don’t worry though, we are looking for new investment and besides, should the banks start lending more money again we may be able to give you more funds”.

Lippi: “Which way is it back to John Lennon Airport again?”

Rafa is the best manager we can hope to have because we don’t have a hope in hell of getting a better one given the situation at the club. So accept our difficult circumstances, support Rafa and the team. Or fuck off.

excellent point Sam
I today was outraged by RONNIE WHELAN’s diatribe on saturday evening… What a sham this man is,
He conmpletely lost the head as if someone had just stolen his lunch money or something..
He completely slated Rafa on his team selection and substitutions while completely ignoring the fact that that close to 15 players were out injured or sick!! no reference was made to the atrocious refereeing decisions that were made by Lee Mason in the game, for which he has subsequently been striked off the referee’s list for this coming weekend…
I watched the whiole game… Liverpool dominated for 70 minutes, no reference was made to this either…
The torres substitution seemed to really anger whelan and that is what i feel he based his whole argument on – how could u take off torres when u need a goal?
Well unfortunately Fernando was carrying an injury and to risk him any longer could have resulted in a long term injury which may have really jeapordised any slim title hope we haveand i’m sure would have resulted in Whelan slating Rafa for leaving an injured torres on the pitch… I could go on and on ut to sum i will say its little wonder whelan is sat in the rte studios and not still involved in the game if he’s not bothered to a little bit of research on the subject matter..
Viva Rafa

You in the Rafa camp now then, LB?

Great blog, Gerry. Had a huge larf. I liked this line particularly: “Our injury list is now so long that it’s beginning to read like Harry Kewell’s autobiography!” Actually we can field a full team with all our injured and ill players.

LB, well said!

Here’s the squad for tonight’s match:

iverpool: Reina, Carragher, Agger, Kyrgiakos, Insua, Kuyt, Lucas, Mascherano, Benayoun, Voronin, Torres.

Subs: Cavalieri, Aquilani, Babel, Ngog, Spearing, Darby, Ayala.

Hopefully we can twat them! Cara at RB.

There was always a way to support LFC. It was passed down from generation to generation. It was called the Liverpool Way…. Loyalty, faith, total support of the lads on the pitch.

I was lucky enough to be born within spitting distance of the Kop at a time when the Liverpool Way was at it’s height. I was educated by them men on the Kop, and in turn I passed it on to the next generation.

We saw great victories together, and the worst of tragedies. Throughout it all we stuck together – us against the rest – especially when things were at their worst. It made us different from the others. It made us special. It made us strong.

In fact, the tragedies bonded us together even more than the victories, and made the victories even more special. Sadly though the victories brought along people that didn’t know the Liverpool way, and they diluted that special bond on the terraces that reached out to the players on the pitch. Eventually the people who didn’t know the Liverpool way even invaded the boardroom and became “custodians” of the club.

Never before has the Liverpool way been more under threat. But thankfully there is still enough of us to keep the Liverpool way alive. We come from all walks of life and from all over the world… From Rafa and the players down to us the supporters, none is more important than the other. We stand together. We stick together. We never walk alone.

Even here in this blog of ours you can see that… People from every walk of life, from all 4 corners of the world, supporting the team as one when the times are at their hardest. You don’t have to be from Liverpool to understand or have the Liverpool Way.

It’s a universal question of loyalty and support, especially when times are at their worst. Sadly some don’t understand that. They haven’t got the Liverpool Way. They don’t understand the Liverpool way. They will never get the Liverpool Way. They even mock The Liverpool way and the people that have it. They don’t belong here or anywhere near our club.

Believe brothers, believe…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTfpn_xsKhE

PS Gerry… stop pouring lemsip into the laptop when it gets a virus.

I’ve debated this all day and finally decided to wear my jersey for the first time in my life during a game. Maybe, just maybe this was the missing link all these years.

Come on you red men!!!

YNWA

Believe boys, believe!

We’re due a good result…

Great line on the panel on RTE.

‘Liverpool won the Champions League with Houllier’s team. Only two players were Benietez’s’.

God these people don’t give him a chance at all do they.

Steve, in the current circumstances I’m in Rafa’s corner.

I’m afraid I’m not in Voronin’s corner however.

Yeah he should have done better lb, another reina special.
Benny is being too cute atm, aggers yellow a direct result from it.
You can be cute in the final third, but have to play possesion around the park

so was Torres, with the weak left shot, directly at the keeper.

Anyway, debrecen equalized

We are lacking space cause lyon are doing well in making it compact.
At the moment they are reading benny like a book

On more issue I have. Why isn’t benny taking corners? He did well when he took them. Voronins delivery has been average, plus he is a big body compared to benny and would cause more problems

That was meant to read “one more issue I have”.

Players building some confidence.

Cmon u red men

That was meant to read “one more issue I have”.

Players building some confidence.

Cmon u red men

Cris won most 1v1 with Torres today…it seems that he is not so fit tonight..

We’ve been far an away the better team. good control and understanding throughout the team so far. Aquaman could really make the difference in the second half.

COME ON LIVERPOOL!!!

Skeat where have u been mate? Torres isn’t close to fit, in fact I doubt he would be playing if we didn’t 100% need the win

I ve been trying to avoid the discussions in the previous thread, while reading all those unfair, biased comments against the team.

Anyway, we seriously need this win while hoping that Debrecen could sneak a draw in Florence. (Fiorentina leads 2-1 as i speak)

Inter is at the bottom of the ECL table in their group…and still there are idiots who want the special need one to replace Rafa at Liverpool. Unbelievable…

Too much space in the middle. Masch and lucas very quiet.
I can see babel coming on for nando, and aqua for voronin.
Will be very interesting to see what rafa will do

Fiorentina 3-1 now…..
we have to win… if we want to progress.
Else, Europa league, here we come…

I can’t stand this ref.
The game has changed to netball

What a chance for Lucas…….
we could have been 2~3 goals ahead now if not for some poor finishings from the boys…

Babel???

Babel!!!!you beauty!!!

Now defend please…………..Come on Liverpool!!

That just shows babels potential, unfortunately he doesn’t always show it. But good on him, made the impact

I think he cried after scoring.

Oh dear,,,,

Sigh…

OMG

That’s probably the consequence for having owners who won’t give a dime for players. Injuries causing us to play kyriagos,and that’s where the mistake occured

We’ve gone back to the Torben Piecnic days. The defending is absolutely shocking.

Fuckin’ Gutted…

Europa League for us.

Hmm, on the bright side, At least there won’t be a 7th loss in 8 games..

But its a good game, considering the injuries that we are facing. a good point I would say, regardless of what some “supporters” might say.

Anyway, would you guys rather we continue the fight in the Europa league or to concentrate in the premier league?

Thats just plain bad luck. jesus it looked written in the stars for babel and us then. I feel sick,physically sick. when we gonna catch a break. agger was very very lucky to stay on the field. ah well there’s a glimmer of hope yet!

well… Its almost 6Am in the morning here in Shanghai.
I got myself excited by the babel goal…. and now I can’t sleep…

Shit…

nite nite everyone…

wow, what a gutting draw.

i think babel’s performance completely summed up his ability in our side. comes on, runs about a bit, hits a screamer, then hits a free kick from the edge of the box out for a THROW IN, then rips a shot from 8 yards about 6 foot wide of the goal instead of picking his head up and placing it in the corner. then he severely misjudges a header resulting our defense being put under pressure with attacking numbers leading to a goal.

i dont blame kyrgiakos for his flailing challenge…but it was such a disappointing goal to concede.

we are such a tight spot. at least this might mean the owners might have to f*** off and sell.

YNWA

btw, im so bloody pissed off at gerrard. i love the player, he’s done so much for us – but he is the leader of this side, and he idiotically went to play a meaningless international knowing he wasn’t fully fit. then doesn’t even come home after pulling up, and reaggravates it in training soon after.

i have no words… i feel like he abandoned the club for basically no reason at all – it isn’t like he is fighting for an england place for the world cup. the other injuries and illnesses are understandable, but not his. and then he comes out and does an interview saying how much we are missing alonso. made me so mad.

Yeah very frustrating alec.

I felt the same about Kuyt travelling to Australia for a friendly. I can understand Babel coming down because he is fighting for his place.
Even RVP didnt come down and he has been playing(not injured) and on fire with Arse.

Actually I was also frustrated with Nando aswell. There was a game where he wasnt 100%, but they played him cause all the other lads didnt turn up (pointless game, villa didnt turn up either). Ended up causing an injury and then stayed with spain to see if he was ok to play the next pointless game instead of coming back to recover.

These lads are paid what we can only imagine, there has to be some respect to the club that pay you the high wages. Sure if its a qualifying match or you are a squad player, but these players are already gauranteed first team football

sorry – thats not really related to todays match, cause the players that were on the pitch hold the responsibility for that. but it just made me think about all the players we were missing today, and then i thought of him. it makes me mad…

i really hope this means the owners have to sell, but i dont think it does. i think it simply means that they will literally give no money at all to rafa…not even money from player sales. rafa will have to hold on to babel, voronin and everyone else he might want to cash in on for another signing because if he gets rid of them, there will be no one else coming into the squad.

im wondering what the press will say? that babel should have started and rafa got that wrong? maybe – he scored the goal…but then i also see him as causing so much pressure on our defense in the end…he had two chances to kill the game and missed them both and then missed the header leading to lopez’s breaking through the defense. who knows what they’ll say? but it will certainly be about how rafa has no idea how to field a side in europe…

Gut wrenching it may be but it’s a step in the right direction. No loss and playing reasonable at their ground.
.
Gerry once described Babel as an enigma, well that about summs up his time on the pitch, shocking corner, wonderful goal, terrible free kick, what can you do with him.
.
Lucas, well if we could add his workrate to Babel then what a player we’d have, however one works but can’t shoot, the other shoots but doesn’t work, who would be a manager.
.
Sorry Arse should not be playing (sorry, I think he’s league 1 at best). However as it stands it was an improved performance and we must take it as a positive.
.
It may even have the added bonus of bringing some reality back into the alleged sale price.

akka, to a certain extent…

but the club (certainly the owners) like them to play for their countries because it gets them a lot of exposure all over the world, and thus marketing power, so you never know what pressure is on them to play in internationals, but i simply cant understand when players like gerrard and torres do that really. especially when like you say, other players pull out.

still, that did not lose us the match today.

i still cant really believe the outcome of these past 5 weeks. if you had discussed this scenario in august, there is probably no one that would think this would be possible. of course several of us knew we were lacking depth if we had some injuries, but this is just an incredible series of events.

Simply gutted! Love the effort from the boys, but can’t help but think that we defend like we think we’re gonna concede a goal rather than knowing we’ll keep all comers out! Gutted.

Please god give us a decent run of wins and clean sheets so that our shot to pieces confidence can come back.

ps. though Mssch & Lucas had very good games….lucas was unluck with his effort….thought their keeper had a blinder.

At the moment nothing seems to going our way. I would say that if LFC fell into a pool of tits it would come out sucking its collective thumb.

Gutted!

Your right Alec, id didnt lose us the game today, but it did put considerable pressure on the team for the past 4 weeks.

Todays game, I could see us lacking in confidence, our players usually interchange well and play very nicely, but today we were lacking in ideas.

Unlucky at the end. Could have even been called offside as it bounced of Lopez to Govou and then back onto Lopez.

So, to advance we need….

Matchday 5
-Win away to Debrecan (with many goals)
-Lyon to take a point (or 3) in Florence.

Lyon will have nothing to play for in that match, they are already through. I can’t picture them wanting to help us out, but they may be interested in grabbing a point to take top spot in the group?

Matchday 6
-If Fiorentina lose at home to Lyon, we just need to win.
-If Fiorentina draw against Lyon:
We need to beat Fiorentina by 3 clear goals to advance.
If we beat them 2-0, we go through the tie breaker process as follows.

Here are the Group Stage Tiebreakers:
Based on Article 7.06 in the UEFA regulations, if two or more teams are equal on points on completion of the group matches, the following criteria will be applied to determine the rankings:

1. higher number of points obtained in the group matches played among the teams in question;
2. superior goal difference from the group matches played among the teams in question;
3. higher number of goals scored away from home in the group matches played among the teams in question;
4. superior goal difference from all group matches played;
5. higher number of goals scored;
6. higher number of coefficient points accumulated by the club in question, as well as its association, over the previous five seasons.

Our current goal differential is -2, Fiorentina’s is +5.

Looking pretty fooked to me.

On the bright(er) side, we at least looked to have more energy than in the last few games. I have a feeling that once we get everyone healthy again, we’ll put together a good run.

Scubasteve, the sad part is I don’t think we’ll have everyone back anytime soon. It appears both Stevie and Nando are going to have to go under the knife to get these injuries sorted.

I’m sure we’ll be quite depleted for Brum on Monday.

Carra and Degen suspended, Skrtel crocked. Not sure how Agger’s back will hold out, he was rock solid tonight but we could be down to Zorba and Ayala for that match.

Freakin’ depressing…

Guys it is some time since i entered and was very new away. but i have kept in touch and read your comments every noght as this is the only time i have spare. i can rember when this kk kid first came into the blog and it was FS who gave him help and told him that he must be young and would give him a chance, but did advise him to deal in facts, which was perhaps a little hard for him to comprehend.it is with out doubt that we would be well in the mire if rafa had left when real madrid was after him, rafa is one manager who know the history of the club, and how loyal the fans are. i was 8years old when i whent to my first lfc game and that was in 1957, there as been a lot of water under the bridge since then i lived with lfc through the goods days and i will live with through the bad. rafa will get it right and we will so have the boys through this illnes and injury problem. i have never seen so much bad luck as we going through right now. guys dont read the crap in the press look with your own eyes. surely they tell you what is happening at the club.be patient and it will come good even if we are frustrated at time. remember hold your head up high. ynwa when you are part of the lfc family.

The only positive of the night is that West Ham beat Villa, so Villa no longer has the game in hand on us. We are level on points with them in 6th with the better GD.

Spurs and Citeh sit one point ahead of us, and Citeh still have one game in hand.

I guess we can all see how important a top 4 will be for this club. As poorly as we’ve played in all competitions, we’re still sitting OK in the league.

It appears we’re going to miss out on the CL money Dumb and Dumber were counting on this spring; we really can’t afford to miss out on qualifying for next season’s.

Keep the Faith…

Super stuff Gerry.

Nice post Jim.

That was a monumental kick into the rollers.

Put in a decent performance and was made up for Babel.Humble pie had been served.

Then they score right at the end when they threatened little all night.

The way our luck has gone lately we shouldn`t be surprised.

Rafa will be seething the lads didn`t close out the game.

I guess as it stands its out of our hands now.

Lyon will want to get something in florence to maintain top spot.That is the hope i`m clinging on to right now.

Times are tough at the moment.

lvc- I agree, it doesn’t look particularly sunny on the horizon. We still do have the FA cup, which may afford a fresh start in a competition. We’re still within easy striking distance of the top in the league, and I certainly think we can make it to the top with the chavs looking to have a rough spring ahead, and manure missing ronaldo.

Hopefully, we can salvage a spot in the CL yet, as Aquafresh should be in the lineup for the games we have yet to play. Fingers crossed for Torres and Gerrard, I suppose.

I’m sure the knees will be jerking after the tough break we took tonight, but it’s far too early in the season to write off Rafa’s Reds.

the tide will turn it is just a mater of when.
it always makes me seeth as the scum bags have a bad day and nowts said, how lucky were them fuckwits last night,
yet we turned um over easy and if we had a good striker along side torres we would have stuffed um by a wosrt margin.
it seems that when rafa beats them in the PL the press never gives him the credit he deserves. we could still pull it out of the fire in CL but will have to rely on other results. still disapointing but was happy we tried to play good footbalL.
I cant wait till aquaman is up to full steam as he looked good in his short spell in the reses and last week.He seems to have good pace and passing ability if he can settle in he will be a good asset.
and have the morons worked through that if we lose rafa then will will proberly lose a few of the players torres, reina, riera,etc dont really need him to leave he is a gentleman and behaves like one unlike whiskey nose.
Anyway as timmytorres says times are tough, but as i was told by my long gone grand father when the going gets tough,the tough get going so hurry up back lads and lets show the bastards what this club is made of, stern stuff if i know owt. just like it true supporters.

LB #5

Thats an awful thing to say about Sean Dundee

ya but can he right, not much inthem both

Skeat my friend Inter are top of their group, check the table. So do all CL teams finishing 3rd go into the Europa League.

So much for the hope that Lyon might be cheese eating surrender monkeys!
Ah well…
Maybe Fiorentina will be gelato eating surrender monkeys?

timmy, he was right though… as he was about comparing Gyrgiakos to Torben Piecnic

Is there another international break after the Brum match or is something else slotted in. If there is then surely Gerard, Johnson and Torres wouldn’t be available. It may be the stroke of luck we need at the moment. The irony of us needing an international break.

Gaz i think there is a two week break after Mondays game v Brum

being a liverpool fan has drastic health risk to to the heart. the only thing we are missing now is for rafa to have a heart attack and that would complete our injury list

heres to liverpool winning the title and progressing through..

Some of those that claim to love Liverpool remind me of the man who beats his wife yet still claims he loves her…

Another good performance by the team…a shame about the defending this year…we havent played badly in any game except perhaps the Sunderland one…its really not as bad as it seems…we are playing well for the most part…which just goes to show how frustrating it is with the lack of funds that are available to Rafa…if he had just that little bit more…

And Aitch – we kiwis dont suger coat nothing…

Do you remember Aussie Kopfan – i hate to think what his reaction to those numpties would have been…he didnt tolerate any bullshit…

kiwi, we were pretty poor in the fiorentina match as well. but youre right, we havent been playing too poorly overall. we played great against chelsea, for instance. but what can you do?

on a fundamental level, football is a combination of ability, mentality, confidence, and luck. at least thats what i think. our side definitely has the ability, but when all the other things go, its a tough thing to deal with. not to mention the rest of the crap we’ve had to deal with over the last few years.

the thing that boggles the mind about buying players, paying higher wages, etc… or generally backing the manager… with very few exceptions, real solid investment and backing of the manager yields great results competitively and financially. obviously its not possible for every side to spend like the big clubs, but liverpool is a big club (or at least its owners want it to be if they want to make money) and for the owners to expect us to always be earning CL money and staying in the top four, then they need to realize that they need to invest as well. they will still make mad profits…

of course every team gets injuries, and everyone knows there are large gaps in our squad as a whole. the crazy thing is that we literally had 14 players out against fulham i read… thats astounding. people talk about losing alonso as devastating to our aspirations. no, it couldn’t be losing half your squad, let alone starting 11.

what am i thinking?

the owners could care less if we’re successful. there’s still mad fans that will buy merch and tickets no matter what.

that said, they want us to spread worldwide more in terms of the market, and its gonna be difficult to tempt kids in africa and asia and the US to buy tons of liverpool merch if we sink down in the league and dont appear in CL. new “fans” will just be buying manc, chav, and **itty kits.

anyways, enough from me

Gutted but we’ll qualify.

Lyon will get a point in Florence. Come Dec 9, we’ll have the full squad (hopefully no sugeries to Torres & Gerrard) that includes Aquaman. We’ll beat them 3-0 in front of the Kop. We can certainly do it! (remember Olympiakos?)

If only we had decent owners, we could hire a cadre of Swedish masseuses… and bob’s yer uncle… they’d all be fit as fiddles and playing with smiles on their faces!

Another thing I rarely hear mentioned (though I know FS has mentioned it) is the wage bill.
It isn’t just about what a player costs to bring to the club.
Think about how many players had their contracts renegotiated in the last 12 months. You think any of them said, “sure I’ll stay another 3-4 years, but no, no a pay rise is unnecessary.”

Of course not, some of these lads had their wages nearly doubled and the rest had significant bumps in what they earn.
It all speaks to the cost of running the club and how much Rafa has at his disposal… without the benefit of Roman’s millions.

As for Souny and his encyclopedic knowledge of football… While he was a fantastic player… as a manager he was a gobshite! So you might want to think twice before quoting him again in here?
(oh wait… I used the word think… sorry.)

I lived through the Souness years and I know exactly why he had a fuckin heart attack… coz he damn near gave me one… Glyn Hysen… made Kyrgiakos look like Skrtel, Agger & Carragher rolled into one!

It might be worth asking yourself why a guy with the managerial record of Alan Curbishly is a TV pundit instead of still managing.
Souness managed in the day when 1.5 million was a “record signing” and “top players” were on 40k per week. He’d never survive now and he knows it… hence he chooses a comfy chair in the TV studios as opposed to the hotseat at … well, any club!

Aitch

i remember those souness days too myself. it makes me sick hearing some of the stuff coming out of his and others mouths given the severity of the criticism. i dont know where he thinks he gets the right. brilliant player, but shite manager.

the wage bill is equally as influential in modern football as transfer fees. torres took a pay cut to come to us originally…how many players in the world would do that?? look at chelsea – think someone has mentioned this before – but michael ballack was a “free” transfer, but his contract was for something like 120-130k a week…its like 30 million pounds once you calculate his entire contract. big players require huge pay packets (even though they dont play the game for money). but if you look at the super clubs in europe, i would venture to say that almost all have a wage bill significantly higher than ours – yet some supporters constantly think we should still be beating all the other teams. im sure barca will double mascherano’s contract with us when and if he goes there next summer…

thats why i dont blame kyrgiakos for the lyon goal. he’s an older player that came for peanuts. yes, he’s a greek international, but how much experience does he have in the champions league playing for a big club? of course none of those things really dictate whether you can defend against a player coming at you with the ball, but at the same time, its clear he’s not a super star world beater 30 million pound center back…like rio ferdinand : )

i dont know, its sad to think how much money and business has permeated the game. players that get rescued from a horrible scenario (mascherano) or nobody players that become stars (agger) are all after bigger contracts as soon as they can demand them. either that or they look elsewhere. and if you cant pay big wages to your bench, then they start looking for a club that they can get weekly matches with. thats how chelsea, the mancs, and now city keep all the stars happy. money. money money money.

as my old coach used to say to us, “money talks and bullshit walks.”

I went on a self-imposed blackout two days before the match because I wanted to save my energy supporting the team and the manager, instead of wasting my time trying to reason in vain with His Holy Highness and his band of infallible cohorts, who must be celebrating the perceived “nail in the coffin of Rafa’s reign” as we speak.

Quite gutted by the result, but was emboldened by the performance, SLIGHTLY better than the Fulham one, but still better. I would single out Kyrgiakos (for the goal conceded) and Voronin (for that pathetic one-on-one miss) as major disappointments, and it’s very ironic that it’s the often slated Babel that scores a stunner out of nowhere. Though after that moment of subliminality, his passing became shite, it’s as though he was possessed for that goal alone.

But maybe I’m being unfair to them as well.

Thank goodness Lyon’s legendary free-kick taker Juninho Pernambucano has retired, or their free kicks would have been deadly.

In the end, we’re now begging for Lyon to save our arses, and maybe Rafa’s. But I have a feeling if they can hold out against us, they can hold out against Fiorentina. So this one point from Babel’s effort might just save us, and we just need to concentrate on beating the Hungarians, and if the gods decide not to fool around with our luck so much then, set up an Olympiakos-like showdown at Anfield with Fiorentina.

I refuse to have any part in the Europa League if Fowler forbid that we suffer the humiliation of being “relegated” there. Even winning the Europa League won’t get you in the Champions League, so there’s no incentive. If that’s the case, I would rather Rafa field reserves by then and concentrate on the recovering our league position instead.

Aitch, it is as you say. This international break couldn’t have come at a better time. As long as we ride out the last wave of this terrible storm against the Brums next Monday, we’ll hopefully have Gerrard, Johnson and Aquaman back, and fingers crossed, Torres back to 100% fitness.

And since they’re injured currently, we won’t have to worry further about them being injured even more in some useless England match in Abu Dhabi.

Though I secretly wish the Scum and Chav players break their legs under the scorching Arabic sun. It’s always been our players that suffer the worst in Int’l injuries, never theirs.

Gaz #66

When I wrote that statement, Inter was still still trailing….

We’ll qualify on the 90th min of Matchday 6 by beating Fiorentina 4-1

Great blog Gerry
Fucking bastard of a result after a great Babel goal (getting a winner like that would have done wonders for the lad)
Anyway the storm is getting darker so we have to hold our heads up higher as Rafa said

“We have done miracles before and we can do it again,”

BTW Im heading home for Christmas andy of you Paddies fancy a Kopblog Christmas session in Ireland………Dublin?

Over and out

Bad luck. Thats all i can say.

I would rather we finished 4th than 3rd in the group. UEFA cup football on a Thursday night against sides you’ve never heard of on Channel 5 with Pat Nevin the studio expert. That’s too embarrassing to contemplate.

Our defending is an absolute shambles. A team of 11 year old school girls could score against us at the moment.

Somnath well done mate is was bad luck lets leave it at that. Collective bits no matter how small all make a difference.

Well as Gerry said if we did not have bad luck we would have no luck at all, I still can’t not believe we did not get a result last night. Their keeper made a blinding save from Lucas.

We defiantly paid too much for Vorinon, I keep trying to remain positive that he will contribute something significant, but it’s such a let down game after game. No wonder we got him on a free, the same for our jolly greek giant, our twats would not spend 8 odd mill on Turner and know look what it will cost us. School girl defending is being unkind to school girls LB.

As for Babel what a great finish I just cannot understand somebody with so much to offer just cannot deliver it more often or be more motivated to try. As a team I thought we played well, controlled, created chances it just wont roll for us at the moment.

It will change at some point and great sentiments Tim we really do have to stick together and support Rafa and the team. I wonder what the odds are for us to win the Prem, might be worth a bet. We have used all our bad luck up for the season and when we get on a roll I think we will be unstoppable.

Can’t keep a clean sheet away.Mancini won three titles @ Inter in 4 seasons.That is who our next manager should be.Rafa is out of ideas, luck and time.George Graham knew how to organise a defence-2 titles in his first 5 seasons.Can you imagine Barca or Madrid giving a manager 6 seasons to win the title?.Ron Atkinson was ditched after 5 years.
Lyon AND Cortina will get knocked out in the second round.They were there for the taking.1 win in 8 games, even Houllier wasn’t this bad.We have returned to Souness type purchases , defending and injuries.Anybody see Wenger’s bargain basement side play last night like the Reds team of 1988?.Aqiliani was the worst purchase ever -out of everything before he gets fit in January!.Lasanna Diarra cost Arsenal a mere £6 million.£ 2 million for Degen, sent off in his first prem start.Forget about the Europa cup.

Nice one LB. Your’e not alone either. I think most of the lads in here have shown that they are more than prepared to give any LFC player a very fair amount of time to prove themselves before we form a real opinion of their worth to the club.

In Voronin’s case however, he produced yet another abject display when we needed every man jack to give blood, sweat and tears for the cause last night. Voronin was not chasing down defenders, making himself available all over the pitch or generally showing for the rest of his team mates. He is not a great goalscorer and he doesen’t put the effort in either.

He was absolutely useless and it is an embarassment to this great club that the bloke is allowed to play for them. I know he was only playing last night because of the injuries we have, but he is still a Liverpool player, and that has to be wrong.

Like the rest of you, I was absolutely gutted by last night’s result. Football can kick you in the teeth? No shit. My Son and I were dancing around the room with joy after Babel’s goal but were left looking at the screen in total astonishment at the last gasp equaliser.

All we can hope for now is that Lyon are Professional in Florence on November 24th, and secure at least a draw, and that we win in Hungary on that night. That will leave us with our fate in our own hands against the Italians at Anfield on December 9th. Hands up anyone who wouldn’t settle for that right now?

Mark, now you mention it, whatever happened to Ausssie Kopfan?

Well, against Birmingham if Stevie is still out and Carra is suspended we will have Masch leading the team out I suppose.

Agger was man of the match IMHO last night. Apparently he had to stand up for the entire flight to France on Monday because of his back problem. You would never have knowmn it looking at his performance. Fingers crossed he’s fit for the Birmingham game.

@ Aitch – can’t take the credit for the phrase – that a Willy classic from the Simpsons – for the Forentines nothing but a bunch of “noodle armed choir boys”

I know I keep harpin on about this but FFS we have to take our chances

Vorinon – payed too much for him – nah he should start paying us back for keeping him on the books – actually feel abit bad for the chap he tries his best but has zero confidence

But it aint over till the fat lady sings so i’m taking a leaf out of Rafa’s book and keeping positive.

Lads, I know we’re all gutted but theres one thing I want to address and thats this ludicrous notion that ‘luck’, good or bad, had anything to do with that draw last night. That wasnt bad luck, that was bad fucken defending. Ya make your own luck lads, i.e when your one on one with the keeper ya put fucken keeper and ball in net (lucas, voronin). That draw is on us lads, not some mysterious intangible force. You’ve 90mins to win a game. Aint no fate but the one you make. You lads no Santa isnt real right?

Burgerman, you think Mancini would take the job? How much dough did he spend to win Serie A? Also remember when he took over Juve got relegated for match fixing and Milan docked a lot of points and turfed out of the CL. Inter were the only big club in Italy with a chance to win anything so all the tiop players over there wanted to sign for them. So not only did Mancini get a shit load of dough to spend on an already good squad – he also had a massive headstart over his main rivals. What did he do in Europe while Rafa’s Liverpool were going to CL finals and semi finals?

George Graham knew gow to organise a defence. So does Rafa. Hence Pepe Reina golden gloves 3 years in a row. How much do Barca and Madrid spend on players? Maybe if Rafa had £300m net to spend I’d be calling for his head right now. Arsenal have won nothing in years. What has Wenger done lately? Ron Atkinson? Mate, what decade was that? Irrelevant.

Rafa has a league points average of 74 over the last 5 years.

First 5 years league points average:

Ferguson 59 pts
Graham 71 pts
Wenger 73 pts

Rafa 74 pts

What do you think about that?

LB, Rafa will be lucky to hit the 70 point mark this season .Graham and Wenger won 4 titles in their first 5 seasons.The Reds were hopeless pre-season and that form has continued even when Gerro and Torro were playing, Fiorentina being a good exampole.Since 2004 Rafa has spent £140 million net more than Wenger and the latter has net spending of zero in 12 seasons!.
We are/will be in the same position as in 2003-circa 25 points behind the title winners.Evans and Houllier were given 4 and 5 years, how long more does Rafa need?.Is Ayala the best young Spaniard he could sign?.Pako Ayesteran was the brains of the operation!.I had £200 on the Reds to win 1-0 last night!.Too much mediocrity, Van Persie cost a mere £3 million-compare the number of goals he will score compared with Kuyt this season.

Digger, the defending was terrible. Nothing to do with luck, we just had too many players on the pitch last night that are not good enough. Or not playing well enough. Kygriakos and Voronin are in the first category. Kuyt, Torres, Carra and Insua were in the latter.

Torres isn’t fit so fair enough. Insua is a youngster learning his trade. Kuyt’s form is desperate at the moment. He is playing like he did 2 years ago. Carra at right back gives us nothing as an attacking force. Kygriakos and Voronin are useless.

Lyon do not look a good side to me so to take 1 point from them in the group tells you where we are at right now.

The bad luck is the fact we have Gerrard, Johnson, Skrtle, Aurelio, Riera, Aquilani, Torres unfit.

Think Chelsea would be riding high with Essien, Lampard, Drogba, Ashley Cole, Bosingwa, Cavalho and Malouda out?

I wonder how the mancs would be doing with Rooney, Fletcher, Carrick, Evra, Vidic, Giggs and Berbatov out?

@ burgerman “Rafa is out of ideas,luck and time” -

No – Rafa is out of money – its just that simple

I for one would love to know who Rafa really wanted to sign. i.e if we look at all his purchases in the last 5 years – who were the ones he wanted and who were ones that were his third or fourth choice.

And this idea that another manager is going to come in and pick up the reins. Who in his right mind is going to take over

I been think also about the owners – if you had a choice between Hicks and Gillet who would you pick

Because after all one prick is better than two

Of course, the likes of Villa, Barry etc would of been on his wishlist.A really good manager can spot talent before it becomes expensive ie Anelka, Overmars,Petit,Diarra,Henry,Ronaldo,etc.This was why Houllier failed @ Anfield.Compare his French players with those that came to the red half of North London.Dossena is so bad he hasn’t played all season!.I expected much better this season.The Reds are arguably the most disimproved club this season.

BM you are one funny character.

How long has wenger been at the club to develop his youngsters?

Mind you how long has it been since Wenger has won the title?

Sure he wont it a few times earlier, but thats before Roman/Middle Eastern/Asian consortiums took over clubs and started to spend massive amount of dough. Look at Arsenal in the past 4 years, nothing to show for it.

Mancini, are you having a laugh. Besides having a rediculous net spend, italy serie a is not comparable to the EPL or La Liga. Its evident when mancini couldnt get inter past the last 16 of the CL.

How did you come up with 140mil (random number or some bullshit sky sports reporter). FS had a fairly accurate post and i think you should read it, net spend ended up being 80 odd mil a season over 15 years (16mil a year). Thats pourage compared to what mid table teams are spending.

FFS, as mentioned by LB, imagine chelski or scum without 6-7 first team players. Even your favourite Arsenal. No Fabregas, RVP, Clichy, Arshavin, Gallas etc and they wouldnt do much better.

Some people are just thick. Why have we been poor the last 2 weeks, cause we havent had a full fucking team, and why dont we have quality in reserve (even though any team would struggle without 7 first team players) because we are skint. FFS rafa had to get kyriakos cause the owners werent willing to spend a few more mil on turner.

LB, Torres and Gerrards injuries have nothing to do with luck. They are the result of 2 seemingly intelligent men making the utterly fucking ridiculous decision of CHOOSING to play in meaningless games while carrying knocks or injuries. Thats not luck. Thats rational men making irrational decisions and we seem surprised by the inevitable eminently predictable outcome. I’ve no sympathy for either of them. Aquilani and Aurelio are made of glass, whaddya gonna do? The others, injuries happen LB!

BM, it’s unfair to compare Rafa 2004-05 with what managers did in the 90s. The reasons is because in the 90s, 70-odd points could win you the title. It is more difficult now to win the league. Surely you grasp this concept? If not then the debate is pointless. It is much fairer to compare Rafa with managers who he has been competing with since 2004-05.

Since 2004-05 Rafa has won CL, FA Cup and achieved a points average of 74. Wenger has won the FA cup and achieved a points average of 74. The point here is since Rafa has come to Liverpool he has done no worse than Arsene Wenger. You can’t count this season as it’s not even half way through yet.

The only managers who have done better than Rafa are Ferguson and Mourinho. Now we can argue if that has been a level playing field.

Last season we got 86 points. In the last 30 years (the best period in our history) we have got more points than that on only 4 occasions. Those were:

1978-79: 42 games – 98 pts
1981-82: 42 games – 87 pts
1985-86: 42 games – 88 pts
1987-88: 40 games – 90 pts

In 14 out of our 18 league titles we got less points than we did last season. Who was the brains behind the operation last season?

And as regards the other teams and injuries, well the mancs are enduring a fair amount too mate. Did you see their team Wednesday night? Hasnt rooney missed games this yr? Fletchers been out for 3 or 4 games. Their central defence is a joke, vidic and jar jar are perma-crocks, they cant keep em upright nevermind on the pitch! Van der Saars basically missed the season. Neville the same. Hargreaves?! God knows what’ll happen to owen! C’mon LB, you’re too smart to fall into the ‘victim’ trap.

Digger, so you are saying that to have so many inuries all at the same time bad luck? These inuries happen? How often? Tell me the last time any club had 10-14 first team squad players unavailable?

Lets talk NFL. Saints have Brees and 3 members of their oddensive line all injured after Christmas. Bad luck? Or ‘these things happen’?

Digger I think we both know that the manc squad is a bit more able to cope with a glut of injuries than our squad. But even then – i think their inuuries goes some way to explaining why they are only 6 points ahead of us when we’ve had our worse run in 20 years.

Mancs had injuries against Spartak Moscow at Old Trafford. What was the score? Yet we’re supposed to beat Fulham, Sunderland and Lyon all away, with a near reserve side.

Short answer? Yes, these things happen. Especially in a sport based on 2 rows of 300lb men battering each other! So essentially we’re comparing apples and oranges. But yes, these things happen. People are gonna get injured playing physical contact sports. Shocker! I get your point about so many occuring at once but what are we gonna do? Sit around and bemoan the fact or get on with it? Fact is bro, that team should have won last night but criminal finishing and worse defending cost us, not bad luck.

I guess its both. These things can happen and its rotten luck because they dont happen often. I’m not sitting here bemoaning anything. We have to get on with it. But my level of expectation will decrease if half our squad is out injured. Hence me not having a go at Rafa for this current run. Should half our squad be out for the majority of the season if you ask me to analyse the season and ask why we finished 8th I’l ltalk about bad luck with injuries.

Same if I tell you why Saints lost against the Rams with no o-line and a back up QB.

Has liverpool fc gone to the dogs? have we lost it that much that we have to keep praying that a miracle happens? do we have to depend on our opponets to win for us our matches? this is ridiculous!

Steve G and Carragher r the only surviving members of the Houllier era and people r still fuckin whinning how the manager has made tremendous signings in Lucas,Degen,Dossena,..etc

where do other managers spot the likes of Kalou,Lenon,young,Van Persie, Nasri,Ronaldo…etc?

Why do other clubs build their success around a team other than two players?

Well i cant seem to find those answers,but am pretty sure of one thing,we have lost 6games in 7matches and am probably still counting….

6 losses in 8 games now Sula so it seems you can’t count.

As have I taken all factors into account when commenting on Rafa or this run. Now that we’re essentially out of Europe I dont wanna see Torres or Stevie near a fucken pitch until they’re both 100and10fucken% fit and ready to run through walls. If that means operations then so be it. See you after Christmas lads. Until then, we gotta hang tough til the new year or everyones fit and make a run for 4th. I dont give a fuck about the Zooropa cup, the f.a cup or any other cup. Its all about 4th now.

An FA Cup would be nice.

Digger, Your’e kidding me, Santa’s not real???

Fuck it then, now I really am depressed!!

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N166346091105-0844.htm

I know this is no doubt shameless club propaganda, but if Claude Puel’s reassurance can’t get you to think positive, nothing will. (Maybe Houllier had a word with him, no? Since Houllier still has a soft spot with us, though things didn’t work out in his last years. )

I reckon Lyon is a better team than Fiorentina, they have won 7 out of the last 8 French Leagues, and have been ever present in the UCL, after all, so I’ll take his word for it and be a Lyon fan for that day.

The yanks should certainly learn a thing or two from Lyon’s chairman Jean-Michel Aulas, who patiently built the team since 20 years ago from a Ligue 2 side to one that dominates Ligue 1.

I don’t begrudge them for taking 4 points off us, we were understrength and were asking for it with the disappointing displays. I do hope we meet again in the knockout stages with a 100% fit Torres, Gerrard, Aquilani, Johnson, EVERYONE.

I know it’s clutching at straws and it really shouldn’t be like that, but we are NOT out of the CL yet.

O.K, so we need Lyon to get something in Florence, but if they do the rest is up to us.

Of course it’s not a good position to be in, but when has this club ever done anything the easy way?

Let’s not give up hope. Lyon will want to win the group like any team would, to avoid playing another group winner in the first knockout round so they won’t be rolling over for Fiorentina.

I predict a draw between Fiorentina and Lyon, which will leave us needing to win our last two and in the case of Fiorentina we would need to beat them by better than the 2-0 they beat us by.

They’ve got us by the bollocks on goal difference (unless we score a bucket load in Hungary) so 2-0 wouldn’t be enough for us so 3-0 is what we will need if it goes to the last game.

Sounds kind of familiar, doesen’t it?

Steve, we are up shit creek without a paddle. If Voronin is playing in any of those remaining CL games we can forget it and look forward to Pat Navin’s half time analysis on a Thursday night.

Arsene Wenger has done well: Here’s a snapshot from Wilkopaedia:

Arsène Wenger, OBE[2] (born 22 October 1949 in Strasbourg) is a French football manager who has managed English Premier League side Arsenal since 1996.[3] He is the most successful manager in the history of Arsenal in terms of trophies and is also the club’s longest-serving manager.[3][4] Wenger is the only non-British manager to win the Double in England, having done so in 1998 and 2002. In 2004, he became the only manager in FA Premier League history to go through the entire season without defeat. Wenger is widely regarded as one of the world’s best managers after the success he has enjoyed at AS Monaco and Arsenal. Wenger has a degree in Electrical Engineering and a master’s degree in Economics[5] from Strasbourg University and is fluent in French, German, Spanish and English; he also speaks some Italian and Japanese.

Wenger was backed financially but has bought well: When he joined in 1996, he signed Anelka and Patrick Viera. In 1999/2000 signed Thierry Henry. 2001/2 signed Sylvian Wiltord for club record fee of Stg13 million.

In contrast Rafa was not backed much by money in all the five years and had to “Make do” with whatever he had, giving the false impression he had not done well in the market.

Arsene also had full control over the junior squad since 1996. Again this is different from Rafa. He was only put in FULL control last summer he made noises and this was changed after Rick Parry left last year.

LB No matter how many times you explain it to BM he wont listen he’ll just
keep coming in and repeating his pointless stats he’s what they call a TROLL
As for Babel i’ve recently commented on his apparent attitude but after the
emotion he showed last night after scoring i see its more confidence he nearly
had me in tear’s.And if it wasn’t for the unlucky bounce leading to their goal
(which id love to see from Riena’s angle because it looked like a hand ball)
he’d have excelled on the fact he’d have saved our CL season which he stil
might.
Digger what do you mean Santa isn’t real next youll be telling me the tooth
-fairy isnt real either.
YNWA

Knight, speaking of Rafa starting to take charge of the youth team, I’m reminded of some of the young players he has since bought in who were well regarded, especially Nemeth.

The other day I saw a guy wearing a jersey with Nemeth’s name on it. This got me thinking of the future not being as bleak as once thought, PROVIDED Rafa is still around to guide the young man.

rome, I just mentally block out BM’s drivels now. It appears as a blank blot the moment I see his name.

Rome, that’s why I’ve never gone along with the not caring and having a bad attitude notion. That’s one thing I’ve never done. To make it as a pro in the first place shows that from a young age the player worked harder and made more sacrifices that 99% of anyone else. It’s difficult to show off your attitude and desire when confidence and self belief is at rock bottom. I think he no longer believes he’ll be a success at the club. As a result he won’t be a bundle of energy like Dalglish. He’ll have a hang dog expression, slumped shoulders and he’ll be hesitant in his play and make a lot of mistakes.

I believe Rafa fucked up with Babel by bringing him in and not giving him the required games and encouragement while he was still a confident lad. As a manager I think you should realise who has fragile confidence/self belief and make sure they develop. Especially when shelling out £12m on the player. The bench and constant “he must work harder” did Babel no favours. Should have got more games in his first 2 seasons. Now it’s too late. Right now Voronin is a more viable option and that says it all doesn’t it?

As for the Burgerman. I thought I’d counteract his claims this time. Won’t be bothering again.

Kinny, True. Nemeth is a good youngster. Rafa would have kept him if he can give him more regular football. That’s why he was loaded to AEK Athens. Hopefully we can get him back for next season and offload off-form Voronin and Babel (yes, despite his goal).

One can safely say that Rafa has overachieved despite handicaps, like the following:
a) lack of financial resources ( Transfer funds each year, Stadium size/ticket revenues)
b) Worse, instead of money being used to fund buying of better players, cash from player sales and CL funds goes to paying interest on bank loans.
c) Lack of speed to buy players (How many has Rick Parry missed because he was holidaying or playing golf)
d)Public blickering of the American owners
e) Undermining by the American owners (Klinsmann)
f) Public rebuke of Rafa by the American owners ( Your job is to train the players)

In contrast, look at the money clubs( Chelsea, Man United, Man Shitty. Even Spurs and Aston Villa had outspent us and without CL money too) where Managers are just told to get on with the player purchases, money being no object.
Also they are backed by the owners of the club and there has been relatively no interference but full support in team purchases, etc. There is an atmosphere of calm and goodwill for the Manager to concentrate on football matters.

Steve the red #115 that’s what i had just came into say. The reality is Lyon can easily get a draw against fiorentina. Infact them getting a point against us may be a blessing in disguise. If they were playing them and relying on points it may have made for a more open game and them pushing to hard for a victory.
Now they will have a certain swagger about them and a full head of confidence knowing they bested the group favourites.
So it comes to match day six we’re at anfield the crowd our screaming like its a manc wedding between rooney and neville on the pitch. we need to win 3-1 to qualify. Well that just sounds like the perfect liverpool match to me. Hasn’t it happenend before!!

P.s As much as im gutted about last night,i thought we played incredible all things considered and should take heart from such a performance from such a patched up side.

YNWA

Needless to say, I am gutted so more postings here:

Tommy Smith: Myth over Rafa Benitez spending is rightly torn down
Nov 4 2009 Liverpool Echo
Comments (10)Recommend (17) MANY a pundit has lambasted Rafa Benitez for the ‘massive amounts’ of money he’s spent over the last few years building a squad which isn’t delivering.

So well done to the supporter who this week examined the facts, to coin a certain phrase, showing just how much Benitez has won and lost in the transfer merry go round since his arrival.

It makes fascinating reading and concludes that the Reds boss has, in net terms, spent an average of just £16m per season.

There is one other inevitable conclusion. And it’s this.

Whether you’re a fan or not of the Reds manager, he is not the wild and bungling spendthrift that some poorly informed pundits would have us believe. In fact, the opposite is true.

No one wanted Xabi Alonso to leave – but when he chose to go after five seasons Liverpool made a £20m profit on him.

Peter Crouch was sold for more than he was bought, while Rafa also made a profit on players like Momo Sissoko, Antonio Nunez, and Alvaro Arbeloa. He even got most of the money back for Robbie Keane.

Perish the thought, but if Liverpool ever decided to cash in on Fernando Torres – it won’t happen of course as the Anfield MD Christian Purslow made clear – then Rafa’s net spend over six seasons now would be virtually zero.

Of course he’s entitled to be criticised for some of his decisions and no one is happy right now. But the club and the fans are dead right to stick by the manager.

His critics are entitled to their opinion. But they shouldn’t be allowed to get away with perpetuating myths about how much he has blown.

Thank heavens someone has nailed it.

I really do not understandwhy some people are blaming Rafa for what is happening to the club at the moment. Where is the Liverpool FC spirit??? Don’t anybody see that our main problem now is the number of injuries that we are having? How many defensive combinations have we seen this season alone? We have to admit that we are skint at the moment. That is the reason we cannot have good back up for all the defensive players that went down injured this season.
Sula at post #109 talked about “other managers spotting the likes of Kalou,Lenon,young,Van Persie, Nasri,Ronaldo…etc” Rafa had said all along that the moment Liverpool asked another club about their player the price definitely will go up; to the point where we could not afford to buy. Besides, when he spotted the players in his early days at LFC ( read: Simao Sabrosa, Danny Alves ), the authority above him did not want to buy because the asking prices were “expensive”. At the end those players did go to other clubs at even higher prices.
I know some of you might say that I am stating an old fact, but, the reason I brought this up is because people are criticising Rafa for his “bad buys”. Does anybody in this forum think that Rafa purposely bought those “bad” players? Come on folks, let’s get real.
Our beloved club is having a major crisis at the moment with injuries and everything, the least we can do is to support our players and the manager. I just hate it when people start coming to this forum to ” I told you so!!!”.

And from Tony Barrett today, a point not mentioned before I believe:
“It is estimated that during Benítez’s five-year reign at Anfield, Liverpool’s success in the Champions League — they have reached the knockout stages in each of the previous five seasons — has swelled the club’s coffers by more than £100 million, a figure in excess of the Spaniard’s net spending on transfers since 2004.”

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/liverpool/article6903912.ece

LB, I too think Babel is an enigma but if it were a choice between him and Voronin for a starting place in the team I would go with Ryan every time.
Unfortunately, for whatever reason, Rafa picks Voronin ahead of him.

If Lyon did get something in Florence and we beat Debrecen and it then goes to the last game at Anfield on 9th December, I sincerly hope we have more that Voronin to rely on that night. If not then we truely would be up shit creek without a paddle!

Up to 2008-09 Rafa had a net spend of around £20m-£25m and that got us a CL, FA cup and took us within 4 points of the title. So when we need to make the final step we lose key players and spend nothing.

Contrast that to the mancs who in 1991-92 finished 2nd and challenged for the first time in over 20 years. They kept the same squad and added Cantona and Dion Dublin.

Chelsea finished 2nd in 2003-04. They then recruited Mourinho, kept their better players and added Petr Cech, Robben, Ferreira, Kezman, Drogba, Tiago and Carvalho.

LB, As long as these Americans are in charge, we’ll never win the PL. You might ask why..? Because they do not understand the importance of it to us , fans and they do not bother to understand since they are in it for the profit.

lb, and essien!

Rafa is the man for the job! End of!!

Essien was signed the following season Alec.

Digger, suggesting luck plays no part in a season’s results is like suggesting that Referees don’t affect results.

As good as any team might be, if they don’t have their share of luck and decisions, they don’t win.

And hang on a minute… weren’t you among the folks who were questioning Rafa’s withdrawal of Torres at Fulham? A decision made for the lad’s well-being…
Now you don’t want to see him played until he gets fit?
Hmmm…

But I would agree… I don’t even want to see him in the stands for Birmingham. Get the lad into a treatment room and don’t let him or the rest of the crocked first teamers out until they are proper ready.

Aitch I’m guessing you dident see my comment #333 on the previous blog? No biggie. And comparing refs (something real and tangible) to luck (an unquantifiable ‘element’) is the worst case of apples and oranges I’ve heard in a while! We should have won that game last night. End of. This one was on us. Not refs, the media, beachballs, ronnie whelan. Us.

Man United game:

Carra goes in on Carrick, gets the ball, but also gets a healthy bite of the man. Ref doesn’t call it.
Tangible or Luck?

Carra and Owen tussle with each other. Owen tugs at Carra, Carra tugs at Owen. Owen goes down. Ref gives the foul, but not the red card.
Luck or Tangible?

Valencia get the ball wide and takes a narrow angle shot at goal, he beats Pepe, but can’t keep it under the bar.
Unlucky or shite? (Okay, I admit… unfair question, he’s shite… bad example…)

Kuyt goes for a through ball. He’s got the headstart on Vidic, but pretty much knows he’s not gonna outrun Vidic, so he runs close to him, knowing he has the head start its likely Vidic will try to impede him. Vidic does, Kuyt goes down. Ref not only gives the foul, and the 2nd yellow, sending Vidic off. (Would Rob Stiles have done that or would he have booked Kuyt for the foul?)
Tangible or Luck?

Pick any game and there are a dozen incidents that could go either way.

I agree with you to some extent Digger…you make your own luck… but to suggest that blind luck never plays a factor is disingenuous… and you know that.

I’ll tell you what I do find interesting though…

The people doing the most complaining are the ones who think Rafa is an idiot and the players are useless.
So… Being the ones that have the least amount of faith in team…
They haven’t been let down at all… so why are they so passionate in their opinion?

Whereas those of us who have faith in Rafa and the players’ abilities… who are the ones who are let down when poor performances are put in, or results don’t go our way, are the ones still pounding the pavement in support.

Interesting that!

Knight @124 The supporter who Tommy Smith quoted was Tomkins i think.
I remember a while back Smith was critical of Rafa so its good that he’s
come out with the FACTS and shows even legends such as him can get
it wrong. Maybe other ex players should have a read.
LB Vorinin as shown his worth while Babel has shown his potential and i
still hope he comes good for us, last night was a potential springboard
for his season.
Your mate’s lad had a good night last night scoring the winner and finally
lifting his team out of the bottom 3,the making of a hero. hope he gets a lot
more but not against us.
YNWA

Well, I’ve been really busy today and glad I stayed out. See it’s the usual old story.

We come in here, post facts and try to explain things. It gets ignored as some people think their moronic opinions and theories are above concrete fact – so they don’t even bother to look at them.

Last night, I even bothered to put in a bit of a tubthumping rallying call, explaining what it means to be a Liverpudlian. These people will never get it.

Like right at this moment, I wonder whether it’s worth the bother…
These wankers will never learn. I’d prefer them to just fuck off and “Support” someone else – which no doubt they will if they get their way… Rafa gets sacked/walks, we end up with a succesion of clueless yes men, who do what Hick’s wants… Success on the pitch is not necessary to be a success.

FFS We have one man, fighting for us against all odds, all fact proves the man has this club of ours actually over achieving but all they can do is childishly spit the dummy at every given opportunity and spit their venom at the man who is fighting their corner.

Unfuckingbelievable… Thank fuck the likes of BM wasn’t about in Shankly’s day, or Bill would have had the sack and Liverpool FC as we know it would never have happened.

But when I read the sort of drivel they post I wonder would it be – like some lads believe – better to be back in the second division with just a proper core support. We got 56,000 plus gates for every game back then.

Today Vronin has been the scapegoat. True enough the lad isn’t good enough, but I haven’t seen one person – even the knowledgable ones – explain why he came to the club and why he is still here…

The fact is, he is an international striker who had played very well in the Budesliga. And while Chelsea decided to pay 30 odd million quid for his international partner Rafa took a chance and brought him to LFC on a free fucking transfer. When it was clear it wasn’t going to work, Rafa tried to sell him. Hertha Berlin wanted him desperately but couldn’t afford him – yes. Rafa was getting money for a player he brought in on a free. But to get him off the wage bill Rafa sent him to Hertha on a free – with a provision that they buy him when they could. Hertha offered 3 million in the summer, Rafa wanted 4. Eventually a fee was agreed in the middle. (It was the same situation with Dosenna – fee agreed for 3.5 million) But at that time, Hicks and Gillette had not only refused to give Rafa the money he had raised on transfers, they actually took every spare penny at the club – probably stuffing their fat greedy hands down the sofas in the hospitality suites – and paid off the debt – their fucking debt that they had heaped on the club. So what did Rafa do….
knowing he couldn’t buy anymore players, and that he wouldn’t recieve any money if he sold anymore, he hung onto the players.

Bollock Burger has been in here for days… spouting complete and utter shite. I and a few others, have shot him down on every occasion. What does he do… comes back with more ridiculous shite to prove his point. Which just seems to be sack Rafa.

I’m actually ashamed that people like this have attached themselves to this grand old club.

Rome, the lad who came up with the true figures is an SOS member and is a season ticket holder for block 306 – the scouse block – on the kop.

They are the people you can hear singing at every game, home and away. They are the people you don’t hear on the phone ins or see whinging on the internet – demanding Rafa’s head. They are the people singing Rafa Rafael, Rafael Benitez, trying to support our manager in his darkest time. And they are the people that count.

Pearls of wisdom from Whelan last night…

Rafa now has the control he’s been asking for over transfers after signing his new contract at the end of last season and then Liverpool go on the worst run they’ve had in fifty years..

Net spend this summer? 10k

Giles actually pulled him up on this comment thankfully but its clear that Ronnie despises Rafa. Also loved the comment about only two of Benitez’s players being involved in Istanbul, Rafa should really hand over his medal to Houllier in fairness…

Somewhere a village is badly missing their idiot..

Sam

FS, heard a fascinating interview with a bloke yesterday in National Public Radio over here.

He was talking about how hard it is now for Doctors to treat people with mental illness… the reason?

The way you treat a mental illness (things like paranoia and such) is to convince the patient that their feelings of being alone and persecuted are not real, because no one else around them feels that way.
Example: No one else you know has been abducted by aliens, so why would you believe that you are the only one on the planet selected by aliens for abduction.

Problem today is… you can join the “I’ve been abducted by aliens” forum and share your “experiences” with others of like mind.

Another example: In the last 8 years, the documented cases of teenagers cutting (self mutilation) has doubled. They attribute it in part to the proliferation of cutting sites on the internet.

Sort of explains the chuckle brothers, no?

SamUl… Have a guess who was the star guest on Talk Shite today?

Yes. You’ve got it… Ronnie The Tratiorous Idiot Whelan.

I didn’t get to hear it though, as I have not listened to any of the drivel or read any of it today as I know exactly what it would say anyway.

One thing I have heard idiots saying all day is…
“Torres should have stayed on.”
Fact… Torres should have never really been on.

Ryan Babel should have been on all game.
Fact… Ryan Babel hit a thunder bolt. (Thank you very much Ryan). Then, hit a good chance – not a sitter – from close in, yards wide. Then twatted a free kick right across the park and out of play without going within ten yards of a LFC player. Then ballooned a stupid effort into the stands with NGog and Lucas (I think it was Lucas) free and in the clear.

Not sure Aitch, but could you give them the web addresses? The cutting one first.

Oh well, I’m off. But before I go, I just want to say, I haven’t heard one convincing argument from the Sack Rafa brigade – not bloody one.

In fact, I would love to read or hear just one intelligent comment by someone who wants Rafa out.
And I really mean that. It would be a relief to hear that I was wrong and that the club would be better off without Rafa and would go on to bigger and better things with someone else at the helm.

But I have read millions of intelligent, factual, well thought out comments on why the man should stay and how badly we might fall if he walks or is pushed.

But not once have I read or heard the same from the out brigade. In fact, the out brigade’s opinion is the exact opposite of the pro-Rafa people… stupid, factless, childish, demanding drivel, that’s more often than not delivered in californian-teenaged-girl style text speak…

Idiots to a man.

FS, I’m not sure that any of us in here really think that it would be best if Rafa went. If he was pushed (which I don’t think will happen) then we would be in shit street.

If we had a vote in here, I reckon about 85% of us would back Rafa to turn things around. And he will. Injuries are crippling us at the moment and are far and away the biggest single factor against us at the moment.

Voronin was a better player for Hertha Berlin than he has ever been for LFC and it is indeed a shame that we couldn’t get shot of him….. he has regressed into a very average player and shows no signs of improving. Would a Championship team want to sign him?

Steve if you read me post mate, I had a go at one person… Bollock Burger. And I’d say it’s actually 99% of the lads in here who don’t want Rafa to go. The reasons might be different, but I think pretty much everyone understands the mess we might end up in if he was to leave now – or even more importantly while H&G are at the club.

I also only included the Vronin stuff for Bollocko because he doesn’t seem to understand the constraints Rafa is working under – or more likely refuses to see them, and thinks his opinion is far more important than fact… the fact that is constantly posted in here, that he chooses to ignore.

But here’s the important point…
We have 4 or 5 people in here who contantly moan, whinge, spit the dummy and call for Rafa’s head. A very small percentage, but look at the ructions they cause.

Like I have said on many occasions, you can take this blog as a small indicator of the bigger picture and sadly it is the same in the real world…
A small percentage of mindless know all’s out shouting the majority. Thousands marched before the Manc game and the vast majority of LFC fans are still firmly behind Rafa. Even those who have their doubts about the man know quite well we are in serious trouble if he goes and H&G bring in a yes man. But whose voice is heard loudest? Whose opinion does the media choose to report as the voice of all LFC fans? The bloody idiots whose moronic, god given right, opinions will be the very thing that could push this club into a disaster that could take many years to over come.

And the worst thing about it… it’s the vast and mainly silent majority that will be left in the wreckage they have caused while they just jump ship and go glory hunting with another club so they can win the I Told You So stakes around the office water cooler on Monday Morning.

And I know I go on about it too much, but I have seen it all before mate and I know we are not immune to it.

Hey FS my man, they are definitely not outshouting the vast, intelligent, well-thought out posters here. I also think they do serve a function as they offer those in-the-know, like yourself, a chance to put the record straight. Ignore it. There is so much to discuss….

like…

Why, after controlling Lyon’s attack for the whole game, did we give them the initiative, hoof the ball back to them, stop running and showing for the ball after we scored? Where was our mental strenght?

Genuine question, any takers ?

FS, if a poll on whether Rafa should be sacked or not was put up, I dread to think of the result. I will highlight one such result from yesterday which shows how those results can go.
.
On the main site is a poll on MOTM. currently Mash is winning on 30%, next is Babel on 28% after 7 minutes, 1 goal, three misses, 1 dreadful corner and attrocious free kick. Meanwhile, Carra, Lucas, Torres, Insua, Pepe didn’t make 10% between them.
.
Polls are frought with danger when emotions are involved. A poll on Rafa after the Fulham game would be dramatic compared to after the Man U game. I know it’s fickle but thats sport. Also it’s people who complain who get noticed, people who are happy and just biding their time don’t tend to complain, so don’t get noticed.
.
In here Rafa and club probably has about 95% support, but they make up 50% of the topic of posts.

Sorry lads that should have read, however the other 5% make up about 50% of the posts in any given topic.

it would be a sad day if rafa went his record is beeter than whiskey nose had in his first seven years, and was only save by mark robins goal. hope we come out of the two week inetrnationals with a fitter side, and you will see even with this so called undermaned team we will do well enough even if we dont win the PL. true reds all true forever. it not just about winning albeit nice. we wont do any think great till we get rid of the two wanks.give rafa the money and he would be able to by his first choice players i.e.villa etc

Dougle mate, I’m not on about inside this blog. It’s what is going on constantly out in the real world… the knives have been out for Rafa for quite sometime now. The clamour for his head is becoming stronger everyday, and the media are whipping it into a frenzy.

Remember the old Frankenstein films? Well, the villagers on Talk Shite and the likes are lighting the torches and they’re determined to burn the witch.

It’s easy to say take no notice, but it is in all honesty a scary situation. The latest stick to bear Rafa… he’s lost the dressing room. Nevermind the fact that most of our top players came specifically to play for Rafa and could well leave along with him – that is the new mantra and it is being shouted out long and loud.

The other tactic being used is to reduce Rafa to a figure of mockery and ridicule. They are doing a good job of it, but if they do succeed in making it that way Rafa will have no choice but to walk. The job would be untenable.

Now I have no crystal ball but there’s only 2 real outcomes if Rafa goes – especially with H&G in command…
1: Rafa goes, H&G hire a fantastic manager who – equiped with the same tools as Rafa – somehow manages to put LFC firmly back on the perch.

2: Rafa goes, H&G hire a yes man, who then complies with their plan for success… which we all know is brand loyalty not success on the field.

So, honestly mate, it’s a very serious time we are in. And like I said, it’s the likes of me and you who will be left amongst the rubble these knobheads are determined to cause.

As for the game, I was still too busy bouncing around in joy after Babel’s goal to even see what happened and I really don’t fancy watching it again.

Missed your post Gaz, but you’re bang on…
The emptiest cans make the loudest noise.

Jim mate, loads of times people in here have listed all the players wanted and how Parry fucked up getting them.

It’s a known fact that the coffee table Rafa wanted at Valencia was Drogba and they could have got him for 6 million euros at the time.

It’s also a known fact that Rafa bought players like Ayala before anyone had heard of them for buttons. Look at Skrtle and Agger… who’d heard of them? How much did he pay?

And there’s more, but then you get people like BM saying he can’t find talent. He only buys established stars… well that was the complaint today.

Yesterday it was why doesn’t he buy Henrik Larson – even though Larson is now retired and probably poodelling round Zurich on a mobility scooter.

The day before it was, why did Rafa waste all those gazillions on Aquilani and Johnson when he should have bought a five or six players.

The day before that it was Rafa wastes all his money on loads of squad players when he should just buy one or two top notch players.

It’s fucking ridiculous. But it’s disruptive. It’s constant. It gets attention. It gathers pace and others follow, and on and on and on it goes.

Believe me, it’s the same out in the real world and it’s dangerous.

Sorry to hog the blog lads but just noticed this quote on another news site, from the intellectual giant Souness.
.
Ex-Liverpool skipper Graeme Souness said: ‘If Rafa had been at any other big club – Arsenal, Chelsea or Manchester United – he would not still be manager, because their supporters are not like Liverpool’s. Liverpool fans are a bit more patient.’
.
And he would know, look how patient we were with him. I’d call him a useless arse breath prick, however I don’t like to speak ill of former servants of this great club.

F.S I agree with your comments in # 149, It is in the “Real World ‘ that Rafa is getting ridiucled and and made fun of. Two of my mates who are both Lifelong Supporters of LFC. sent me this drivel that was written by Stan ( the wifebeater)Collymore. The sad thing is they agreed with most of what he was saying. I will hold my hands up and say I haven’t always been one of Rafa’s biggest supporters, but I am now, and a lot of the reason for that is the information that I have read in here from the ” True Liverpool supporters”. Where will we be if Rafa does leave, and probably takes several of the better players with him?
Hicks and Gillett are the really enemies of LFC.
It’s time for all real supporters to rally around Rafa and show him that we really do appreciate what he has done for this Club over the past five years.
I will be sending him a message of support, I would suggest that this would be something we could all do to let the “Man’ know we are behind him.
Liverpool Football Club is something special, always has been for me and always will be.
Cheers to You Gerry for your great blogs.

Right I’m defo off to bed. But I want to leave with a little question/poll.

After reading this, give it a bit of thought and decide would you sack the manager….

The team finished runner-up the previous season. Three wins would have sealed the title. The new season started with optimism that their drought in the league could be expunged from memory. The team went unbeaten in the first nine games: W:7 D: 2: L:0. Unfortunately, the team would only win consecutive league games on two occasions after September. Their first loss was in their tenth game, away to their traditional rival.

Then the injuries arrived. By the season’s end only four players ended up featuring in forty or more games in all competitions. The manager had to call on reserves, fringe players, worn-out veterans and untested youth.

The victories disappeared. Three wins in the league during a twelve games stretch between mid-September through early December: P: 12: W: 3: D: 6 L: 3. One of those losses was a 4-0 hammering against a newly promoted side. They beat their city rivals, but in the very next game, they were humilated 4-1 at home against another traditional rival.

They responded well with straight victories, but then only won one of their next six (P:6 W:1 D:2 L:3) league matches stretching from mid-January to early-March. Their remaining ten league games consisted of six wins and four losses. One of those losses was at home to their city rival. The team finished a disappointing fifth in the league, fourteen points behind their hated cross-town nemesis who finished as champions. By the injury-ravaged season’s end, they had seemingly gone backwards. They lost eleven league games, almost double than the previous seasons total of six. Furthermore, they conceded 42 goals: a stark contrast to 24 the season prior.

Additionally, the team were embarassingly knocked out of their European competition to a third placed Portuguese side on away goals, bundled out of the League Cup and humiliated in the FA Cup to a team who finished fourth from bottom in the division below them.

*****************************************
What do you reckon, the fella should be sacked?

Sula – as has been explained many times in the past…

Most of those players mentioned by you were spotted and identified and targetted by LFC – but we couldnt fucking afford them!

Houllier actually wanted to bring Ronaldo to LFC – but was outbid by Man Utd…

Some of the others you listed actually cost more than Torres!

Seriously – what part of WE DONT HAVE ANY MONEY fails to make it into you tiny little brain? What part of it actually takes money to compete do you fail to grasp? What part of WE ARE OVERACHIEVING given our financial state dont you get? If we didnt have Rafa we’d be fucked – its him and him alone that is keeping this clubs head above water!

As LB said – if he’d spent 300 million pounds net and we were in this position we’d all be looking at this differently…but most of us actually live in the real world and have the brain power to associate performance based on more than just our fantasy beliefs garnered on playing a pirated version of Football Manager your brother stole for you – because thats about as close to the actuality as George Bush Jnr is to intelligent!

Fat Scouser – have to agree with – of course you havent heard one convincing argument – there isnt one…and even if there was these morons dont have the brain power to find it let alone articulate it in any sort of meaningfull way…so dont hold your breath – you’ll die of Asphyxiation…the Sack Rafa Brigade (I actually like the term Instant Success Brigade someone else coined previously) dont actually contain any members with an IQ above that of your ordinary common garden slug…because no one with a brain can fail to see that it is Rafa that is holding this club together…then they abuse us for trying to educate in an articulate manner and then get all upset and offended because we dont like to be so disrespected…so not only are they amongst the dumbest beings in the known universe…but they are also the most arrogant of hypocrites to have ever walked the earth…they make me despair for humanity because these twats are multiplying in numbers that will soon mean the intelligent amongst us will be overrun…

Sula – Somnath – KopKing – the rest of you gobshites…

What part of Form is temporary – Class is permenant dont you get???

Rafa has proved he can do it…how do you fail to see that???

Why are you so stupid???

Once again – you are not Supporters of this club – the best you can be called is Fans (and fair weather fans at that)…Supporters do not baselessly attack a member of the club they way you have!

You claim you love the club – but you show it no love…and you certainly show its hardest working employee no love – an employee who has proved time and again he has what it takes…and you attack and disrespect those who disagree with you calling them blind faith supporters…showing an arrogance totally out of proportion to your intelligence and demonstrated knowledge of the game…

I suspect you love the club the same way a man who beats his wife says he loves her…

Quite frankly – you are an embarrasment to the club…

You lot are so dumb you have lowered the average IQ of Liverpool Supporters so far it is now in the region of that of a Chelsea supporter…

Once again – perhaps you go and support them!

Do you know what is even more sad though, lads?

It is that the only professional managers that have openly tried to calm this unbelievable histeria aroused by the media are Wenger and Martinez, and they are the only two other proper managers in the EPL, barring perhaps Hodgson.

The rest don’t realise that ousting a fantastic manager like Rafa is not only a disaster for us, but for the premier league itself.

It wasn’t a long while ago that there used to be wonderful relationships between the managers (none more so than when the opposing managers would drop by our boot room for a cup of tea to discuss players, tactics and all those things), but now, it has become this fungus-group vs non-british managers thing, and it is just utterly disgraceful.

You have to marvel at the way rafa has managed to stay so calm and gentleman-like throughout the total shite that has been tossed his way right from the beginning of his tenure when no distinguished personnel came to meet him upon his arrival.

Words such as “He has run out of ideas” continue to amaze me. What more can a man do with second string players. And then the lad says that we were shite in pre-season even with nando and stevie playing, completely ignoring or ignorant of the fact that some of our best sides in the 70s and 80s played shite in pre-season.

FS is right. This minority group is so vicious and malicious in nature that it completely destroys the good of the majority. It is worse than cancer and aids. It is unbelievable that these fellas don’t realize that they are actually destroying the club with their ignorance, or may be they do want to destroy us.

Either way, what a waste of energy and time that we all have to put to combat this “disease”, and yet it has to be done. I’m getting to the point now that I care less how well or bad our team does on the pitch this season.

I’m more concerned about protecting my manager and the club from this “disease,” because mark my words, it is a disease.

It is difficult to ignore.

Aussie Kopfan is under the thumb somewhere in New Zealand.

Gotta love the wifebeater comparison, Kiwi, as that’s exactly what they sound like. They only “love” the team when it pleases them, which is like, never.

Though FS has articulated well how ridiculous our Resident Lunatic burgerman is, I fear that his small brain and narrow attention span won’t be able to comprehend what FS is typing.

So before burgerman pops up to make his next Amazing Statement, on behalf of everyone here, let me say this to him in very simple terms:

BURGERMAN, NO MATTER WHAT SHITE YOU SAY, YOU’RE A FUCKING DICKHEAD! BE GRATEFUL GERRY DIDN’T BAN YOU SINCE YOU’RE A TOO FUNNY AS A CLOWN!

Sure is a interesting question FS one that is hard to answer.
However if you stuck by somebody with losses like that you may be called blind.
Anyone could have a bad run.
Nobody can predict when injuries will happen.
Knowing all the facts id like to think the fans would choose the right option.
So i suppose i,d keep faith in him and hope for future success.

YNWA

To all the idiots who comment on this site

Faith is something that you are severely lacking and dont understand.
Usual media bullsh*t is all you listen to while ignoring the facts.
Constant criticism is all your capable of, nothing factual mind.
Kyriakos cost 1.5 million ask yourself why so little money is available

Out of all the managers in the world who’d come to work for G&H.
Forget the “special needs one” his special need is 200 million.
Fans like you are destroying our reputation of been the best fans in the world.

Sky Sports did their usual “Rafa Under Mounting Pressure” bit today… but what is amazing is that for the most part, the people they interviewed were decidedly pro-Rafa.

Jason McAteer: “Some of these people that call themselves supporters, don’t know what the word support means. You support the team in the bad times, not just the good.
They don’t realize that those rumblings of discontent make their way onto the pitch and affect the players. I know, I’ve been there, belive me. It can do real damage to the team.”

John Aldridge: “These people need to shut up and support the manager and the players. The man has done it at every level and these people think they know better. Its comical.”

Alex McLiesh: “Rafa is a well respected coach. He’s done it at every level and he’s done it with dignity wherever he’s been.”

Use five words to describe Rafa as Manager:

Mine: 1. Professional, 2.Cool-headed, 3.Overachiever, 4.Brave, 5.Analytical

Anti-Rafa band: 1. Idiot 2. Lunatic 3. Under-Achiever 4. Illogical, 5. Stubborn

Mine:
1. Professional
2. Calm
3. Over achieve
4. Analytical
5. humble

Skeat, nice one. Would love to hear from others.

Me posted this little query fer debate here in the last blog, but everyone was too busy having a go at some of our more “knowledgable” punters. So me asks again:

Would the good supporters here at KopBlog accept a thoroughly wretched season if it means G&H are forced to sell & bugger off?

Discuss.

ps: Ace blog as usual, Gerry. Loved the artificial intelligence over natural stupidity comment!

pps: Say NO to Europe league!

Way too bloated a comp. Too many games fer our already threadbare squad to cope with.

Rome mate, it seems to have gone under the radar, but the reason why I asked that question in 156…
Anyone who would have answered Yes, would have sacked Bill Shankly!

The similarities to what happened last season and this are remarkble, but that was what happened to us the season after finishing second under Shankly. And like I’ve said many times before, Shankly’s trophyless years were some of the best times I ever had following Liverpool. It’s not something I just say to defend Rafa, it’s true. Ask any old red who was around at the time and they will tell you the same thing.

I know the world has changed, but it’s not always for the best, and sadly nowadays a few bad results is enough to cause this shit storm. And it’s not only ridiculous, it’s ruinning the whole experience of following LFC.

Look at this blog. It used to be fun. We had our battles, but not like this. It’s constant. It’s boring. It’s bloody ridiculous. It’s ruinning the thing and it’s stopping any real discussion.

Turn on the radio or telly, pick up a newspaper and it’s the same shite over and over again…. Constant Rafa bashing from an ill informed minority. But like I said earlier, I haven’t seen or heard one argument that makes me believe LFC would be better off without Rafa.

I have seen an example of what has happened after Rafa left a club… I wonder what a Valencia fan would tell us about life after Rafa? I know it wouldn’t be good.

I think it’s fair to say sacking Rafa would bring 2 options…
1: H&G hire a puppet, he toes the line, and does exactly what they want… we already know what they want for the club.
2: Two idiots who know fuck all about football and care nothing whatsoever for this club somehow manage to hire a genius that puts the club back on it’s perch with even less money than Rafa has been able to force out of them.

I’d actually be happy if somebody could show me I’m wrong. I’m an LFC fan. I was before Rafa arrived. I will be when he’s gone. And right now I think the best way to defend the club is to defend Rafa, but show me I’m wrong and I’ll gladly admit it and move on.

I don’t expect anyone who wants Rafa out to be able to prove how it would be best for the club. I don’t even expect them to come up with a name of the next manager. They can only give their opinion. But I’d say it’s fair to want some sort of proper analysis in that opinion and to expect some sort of indication that things would be better without Rafa. But I can honestly say I haven’t seen any of that, and let’s face it… it’s not much to ask for when you consider how serious the question is and the consequences of it.

Funny thing in all this… I have seen many lads who were doubting Rafa rallying to his side throughout this situation we are in. Why is that? I shouldn’t speak for them, but it’s obviously because they understand the situation and they know what is likely to happen should Rafa walk or get pushed at this time.

I’m sure they’ll be back to have another go at him if and when it’s fair to do that. But they understand that this isn’t the time. In fact, the decent and more level headed know that to call for Rafa’s head during this miserable time is ridiculous and nothing short of treachery.

1: Fat.
2: Sound.
3: Ours.
4: Boss.
5: Gets the ale in for the lads.

my description of Rafa:
1) Professional
2) Analytical
3) Perfectionist
4) Determined
5) Humble

Puchong,
I think I can accept a bad season if the 2 clowns are removed. But will that solve the problem? What if we get another (or more) clown(s) in?

Puchong I’d give up me own children if I thought it would get shut of that pair of bastards.

FS, Giving up your children? Is that because you have grown more attached to your grandchildren??

Puchong, I think the priority is surely to get the two yanks out, that’s for sure. But we still need LFC to be in the top four teams, and thus make it to CL again. Surely we do not want to make this a total disaster.

No mate. That’s because the kids are a pain in the arse. But I’d gladly take whatever it takes to get shut of that pair of shysters.

Kiwi,

The worse thing any one could or would is to judge someone’s love for something. You are doing it, and it’s getting pretty hard to swallow there. You are an embarrassment yourself as you abuse and curse Liverpool fans themselves. So shut the fuck up bullshit you are throwing around of embarrassment for the club. You yourself are an example for it.

And another thing. If I would have been a glory hunter or if I would not have loved LFC, I would have started supporting Chelsea or Manure way back since ’04. So don’t fucking talk about this glory-hunter shite. You are not the ones who should judge what we do or don’t. You are not the only fans in this world who care about LFC.

And Fatty,

I know it’s pointless to speak to you, but still it’s quite surprising to see that we are still getting on your nerves even though you have stopped reading our posts. Although you can’t shut us, but you can still pray for it coz thats what you are capable of doing. You do talk and think like a thug.

FS,

I like your 5 descriptions of the boss…

Kopking,

I don’t know you as a person or a supporter, therefore I cannot judge you.

But for me,
A supporter would be one who supports the club in all conditions, bad or good times. The club, the manager, the players, the fans..

I felt lucky to have Rafa as the boss because with him on the helm, i see hope.

PS:

An interesting website about the definition of Glory hunters

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Glory%20Hunter

FS – Calling our gaffer ‘fat’? Hmmm . . . Sweaty he may be, fat, not really la mate.

axchoice – am hopeful next owners will be better. No club has a divine right to a sugar daddy to just splash the cash, so me is more than happy with owners who will run LFC as an efficient business & NOT saddle us with crippling debt.

Knight – me thinks as long as we are in europe, they’ll cling on. Me thinks a seriously disastrous campaign will make them think twice bout holding out fer a king’s ransom . . .

1)balding
2)goateed
3)obssesed
4)passionate
5)Bossman

And today’s classic from the chuckle brothers:

Although you can’t shut us, but you can still pray for it coz thats what you are capable of doing. You do talk and think like a thug.

As I wipe the tears from my eyes Gerry’s phrase of natural stupidity springs to mind.

Rafa

Obsessed with details
Eats when he is stressed
Tactical Genius
In credible control (or I want the drugs he is on)
Perfectionist
Decent
Humble
Loyal
Great sense of Humour.
Liverpool to the Core
A man I would like in the trenches next to me

KK – Then why do you constantly attack the club???

You really dont get it do you – but I cant be suprised – you really arent that bright…

And you get judged because you refuse to listen to what the others on here have attempted time and again after you make another patently ridiculous sweeping statement not backed up with any facts or knowledge…you get judged because you are ignorant (which would be tolerable if you had the humilty and decency to learn from your mistakes) and arrogant – insisting that only you are right – only your opinion matters…even though we show you just how flawed your opinion is…

and that you fool is why you get abused and cursed at – because that is all the likes of you deserve…

If you dont like it then stop being a fucking arse…and actually show that you care about LFC by listening to those who have a great deal more knowledge of the club and game than you have demostrated so far…and stop coming in here with knee jerk reactions and blaiming everything on one person…quite frankly if that is what you deem love for the club you can fucking keep it…because that aint what it is for us…

If you want to get treated with respect then start showing it towards those in here that try to educate…stop being so arrogant and so full of yourself that you think that the opinions of others (especially ones based on solid facts) dont matter…once again I point out – if just about everyone is telling you, you are wrong then just perhaps you fucking well are…

And the actual worse thing one can do is to betray something or someone…this is what you do – you undermine the club in its weakest moment – you betray all that Shankly and Paisly built…you deserve to be judged…and I judge thee an idiot and a traitor…if you dont like that – tough – the truth hurts…

As I said – you are not worthy…I dont give a flying fuck what you think…ones love and support is determined by their deeds – not their beliefs…you may believe you are a supporter and love LFC but we have seen fuck all evidence of this…so you can sit their and indignantly state you support Liverpool and love the club – but until I actually see you (and the rest of your brain dead associates) actually demonstrate that I dont fucking believe a word of it…at the moment all you are doing is demonstrating your love for LFC the same way Rhianna’s rapper boyfriend demonstrated his love for her…and that is just not acceptable…

Fats – your right – they are ruining the blog – I’ll stop replying to them now…because its just not fair to you and the rest and Gerry…unfortunitely I am a bit like a dog with a bone…I just cant let it go (there is a side that if we dont keep up the good fight we might actually lose out to this bunch)…

“And another thing. If I would have been a glory hunter or if I would not have loved LFC, I would have started supporting Chelsea or Manure way back since ‘04.”

HA! HA! HA! Possibly the funniest thing I have ever read in this blog.

04… I suspect it was actually after Istanbull, but 04… well, what can I say – there’s loyalty, commitment and knowledge, eh?

Why don’t you just fuck off you complete and utter idiot.

As for the rest of us, can we please get back to what this blog is intended for… decent debate on LFC.

I think all of us with at least 2 working brain cells have had enough of this. So there’s only one real thing to say now… How long are we going to put up with it and get caught up in it?

It’s pointless. No matter what we do – post fact, patiently try to educate, debate, or even insult – it’s ignored and we are foolishly letting a handful of idiots drag this blog down to this ridiculous cycle.

Gerry puts time and effort into writing these articles. I can’t speak for him, but I know I would get sick of writing them only to see a few comments on the actual blog and LFC, before it descends into this futile cycle.

On top of that, there is so much more that we could and should be talking about – serious issues like ownership, debt, and – dare I say it – the actual football.

I said it earlier, it’s getting to a point where it’s a waste of time. Kop Blog used to be a little haven of sanity away from the hype and ridiculousness of the media.

It was also a little oasis of sanity in the ever increasing lunacy of the internet. A little place away from the big forums where this sort of shit is the norm. Sadly a handful of idiots are dragging it down into the mire. But more importantly – we are letting them by getting caught up in the net they keep casting.

They obviously don’t have the decency or brain power to realise what they are doing. Therefore I think it’s best just ignored and we get back to what brought us in here in the first place… discussing football and LFC.

04, indeed.
HA!

Sorry lads, missed the other comments replying to The King Of The Kop. And you’d already said what I posted.

I am not sure what to say, but let me put it like this.

There are many possibilities here in this season.

1) We could win 5 or 6 matches consistently and get
running fur the rest of the season with a good form.

2) We could end up having draws more than losses and
remain in the third or fourth position.

3) We could suffer more losses than wins or draws and
end up in the the mid-table position this year.

However, I doubt that the last option would turn into reality but the first and the last ones are the ones that would happen, most probably.

I believe that Torres would need to get that surgery done in coming time while Stevie G is still out. Though I want to believe that the club is going to improve it’s performances this season, it rather seems unlikely without Torres and Gerrard. Gerrard could be left out and we could still change the game, but without Torres, Liverpool face scoring problems.

This is a tough patch, I know, but rather than making excuses of luck, referees and stuff, we should admit that our squad strength without Torres and Gerrard leaves us weakened. Yes, we could manage without them for a couple of games, but for two months would mean from weak situation to worse. I know I am being pessimistic about this situation, but can’t help it.

Till now, we were missing an Alonso-like figure in our squad, but were still trying to handle without him, but without Torres and Gerrard, we would be missing our three best players: Torres, Stevie and Aquilani. Dunno, when Aquilani would start playing in the first team, but this surely worries me. Our situation, is in a bad condition and this will turn into worse if no miracles happen.

Yes, we are suffering various injuries to some of our important players, but we can’t moan about it nor can we avoid important fixtures. We are on the verge of getting eliminated from the CL and already are 9 points behind the leaders. I don’t see anyone in our squad who could replace Torres in his absence. N’Gog can do something on rare occasions. Babel is the same as N’Gog but misses many great opportunities. Voronin is as dumb as a rooster. WHO??

Gerrard on the other hand could be replaced when Aquilani or Riera start gaining their fitness and get in the first team. Benayoun is the man right now and fortunately he’s doing great job.

If this wasn’t all, the defense has also started falling apart. Injuries to Johnson, Kelly, Skrtel, Agger and Aurelio has left our defense into pieces. Kyrgiakos is slow and useless, while Ayala is inexperienced. Insua is doing a good job right now and fortunately we have him to cover up the void for Aurelio.

Lucas has also improved considerably. But still, we need Aquilani to gain his fitness to boss others’ midfield, which Lucas is unable to do.

We are already in the sixth position in the league. We are almost out of the Champions League. And we are also facing about 10 injuries amongst which, one position is irreplaceable i.e. Torres. This is the worst conditions one’s team could be in and you want me to stay positive?

Now rather than blaming the Yanks or injuries or bad refereeing, we should get on with the results. This is not happening and we can’t do this for the whole season.

What should we do?? That is a simple million dollar question I don’t have the answer to.

Ahhh, a cunning plan…. Move the goalposts yet again, by trying to talk football because you’ve realised everyone is now completely sick of the usual shite you have come out with and it’s probably the last chance you’ve got.

Sorry lad, you blew that last chance with me a long time ago. I honestly don’t like you. Not because of your views, but because of the character you exhibit… Kiwi hit it right on the head. You are definetely the type who would batter his wife and claim you only done it out of love for her.

Which brings something to mind…. Stan Collymoore has a discussion forum on his Daily Mirror site. He’s you’re sort of chap, and it’s full of people like you….
Who even when they try to talk football come out with a load of absolute horse shit, that flip flops from one sentence to the next, contradicting itself from start to finish.

Nice try for a desperate moron though.

hahahahah,

man fatty, you make me larf big time fat-fat. You think I want a second chance from you? Keep dreaming! I know many moronic fat jerks like you and frankly don’t respect them.

I don’t want your fucking last chance and for the last time i don’t want your respect nor your shit comments on me. I’d rather like you not to read my comments fat-head. So please take that last chance up your arse.

Well fuck me I just found out we have half our squad out injured, and SG and Torres under operation clouds. No wonder things are grim, thanks for the info KK. God I’m glad we’ve still got Rafa otherwise with all that we’d be fooked.

SORRY FOR THE BREAK IN TRANSMISSION. NORMAL SERVICE IS NOW RESUMED….

hahahahah,

man fatty, you make me larf big time fat-fat. You think I want a second chance from you? Keep dreaming! I know many moronic fat jerks like you and frankly don’t respect them.

I don’t want your fucking last chance and for the last time i don’t want your respect nor your shit comments on me. I’d rather like you not to read my comments fat-head. So please take that last chance up your arse.

I stand corrected the last post is the best of the chuckle brothers. A classic of all classics, anybody see the United States of Tara?

FS I actually don’t think we have played all that badly. The team spirit looks good and it seems the lads and most of the supporters bar a few morons are behind both the team and Rafa. I will just ad I am loving reading LB’s post and the roll reversal is almost as amusing as the chuckle brothers. Great work LB and also great analysis.(I hoe that does not sound condescending because it is not meant to be)

Apart form the obvious weaknesses, defense and attack (ball in net), which will only get better when we have a full functioning squad there is actually a lot to look forward to. Aquaman will give us a lot more creativity and goal threat and will compensate for an injured Gerrard, great when they both can play. Lucas has been a revelation this season, mature, controlled the midfield well, even his forward runs are starting to be picked up more and more and his goal threat is getting better. Only a great instinctive save denied what would have been a great goal.

Lets face it he will be the back up midfielder against the stronger sides and most probably replace Masch against the weaker ones. That will be a good position for us to be in. Yes we are light up top, in terms of quality finishing ability. This is really apparent with a half fit Torres and missing Gerard, as well as a strangely tired looking Kuyt. I think this could also be down to all the responsibilities weighing these players down and them knowing that they have to step up a gear to compensate for the injuries instead of chipping in with a goal here and there. They know become the main source.

With a fit or fitter squad I do not think it will take much to turn the season around. We all forget what type of winning runs we are capable of going on. Yes it does not look particularly good for us but I refuse to throw in the towel just yet. As Rafa correctly says, small things make the difference. We are just a few small things away from making that difference. Keep the Faith, all is not lost.

As too the comment would I accept a mid table finish to get rid of the Yanks, Any day of the week. However Rafa is after to good a manager and we have far too good a squad for that to happen. I said at the beginning we would finish in the top two with a great shot at the top spot if injuries did not derail us. If we can get the boys fit for long enough (yes not looking that great) we still have an outside shot, yes it is more difficult but it is far from over.

Fats – I am sitting here pissing myself…so funny you are…

Heres to a brighter tomorrow…it’ll be good again soon – I can feel it in my bones…quality wins out in the end and we have a lot of quality at this club (its just that some of it’s stuck on the treatment table at the moment)…

I for one cannot wait to see Aqualani play…any news on him? (I know he was on the bench for the Lyon game)…

Anyway – heres to England stomping on the Wannabies and the AB’s butchering Wales…as a nice little apertiser before the main fare Tuesday morning (for those of us downunder)….

Maybe we need to open up a crèche this is getting very childish, my classic comment was meant for the attempt at being a grown-up it had me in stitches.

“We all really respect you KOPTHING”

Keith mate, I know quite a few lads who have lost faith in Rafa. I think they’re wrong, and when they state their opinions I let them know it. But the thing is, these lads are good supporters with decent knowledge and put forward a logical argument.

Funny thing is, they are all totally 100% behind Rafa at this time because they understand the situation we are in and the probable consequences of Rafa leaving now. Therefore, I don’t mind listening to their points and debating them on it.

I shouldn’t speak for LB. I’m sure he’ll add his own views when he’s about, but seeing he’s not here right now I’ll just say the lad has said as much himself…
he knows this is not all down to Rafa and that removing him from the job right now would be absolute madness.

As for the situation we are in, there’s no point in scapegoating and pointing the finger of blame. It’s a very strange season indeed.

The fact is this team except for Alonso – who is backing Rafa to the hilt – is exactly the same team that went 2 goals short of winning the title last season. Honestly if you sit and work it all out, that’s really how close we came.

Can a team turn to shit over night?
I’ve never seen it happen before.
Can a manager turn to shit overnight?
No. But he can be put under that much pressure that he will throw in the towel.

I stayed out of here after the Lyon match. I never looked at any other sites, read a paper or turned on the radio. I knew exactly what I would find. This morning I stuck the radio on… The subject all day – Rafa has lost the dressing room and the only outcome of all this, whether Rafa leaves or stays, is all our top players, especially Gerrard and Torres, will leave at the end of the season.

It’s ridiculous, but like I’ve said many times, it’s dangerous. It breeds more and more self imposed Kings of The Kop and it could eventually drive Rafa out.

So, I hope you are correct. And I agree entirely… we need to go on a run of results and put an end to all this dangerous nonsense that is being spouted.

Hopefully a result against Brum and a couple of weeks rest and work on the problems we have will be enough to put things right. And when all is taken into consideration, the damage could have been far worse.

Oh well lads, got to shake a leg and get going.

Word of warning…
Leeds sacked David O’Leary for finishing 5th in the league!

Really busy at work lads. Have read most of the comments and will contribute when I get a moment.

Keith, I’ll respond to your post in a minute. It’s pretty much along the lines of what FS said on my behalf but I’ll come back with more details.

In the meantime, have a group hug.

KK, here’s a snapshot of Stan Collymore, a Liverpool player who is a wife beater and doesn’t like training:

‘Yes, I’ve made mistakes, but I’m not a bad person. Simple as that’First Stan Collymore was known as the footballer who punched Ulrika Jonsson. Then he was known as the ex-footballer who had sex with strangers in car parks. Now, he claims, he’s a different, wiser man – and nobody wants to know. He talks to Emma Brockes. You are like him, in attitude and mannerisms.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2006/may/25/newsstory.sport6

FS you only have to look at the ManU result and way we played to know what we are capable of, even with injuries. Yet just as it seems we are getting back on track a virus hits half the team. It’s just fucking unbelievable with what we have had to cope with this season. It will get better of that I am sure of I just hope Gerrard and Torres can get better without going under the knife as that will mean a longer time for recovery and with the start we have had to turn it around and challenge we need all hands on deck as soon as possible.

LB I know exactly where you are coming from and the reason for your comments and support because you have a brain cell unlike others. We had a great season last year, yes we lost Alonso, unfortunate and unavoidable. Great support from Alonso for Rafa by the way, he deserves the respect from Liverpool supporters. Aquaman was brought in to replace, sort of, and give us a different attacking option. The jury is out on this team till we have everyone back, I understand that, however regardless our long term success is dependent on Rafa and on that topic I will not be swayed. I see the youth development, I see what he has done on limited funds (16mill is limited) and I see he has given us hope and a chance despite the interference and crap from above he has had to deal with. If he leaves I really fear for Liverppool. Other managers are not idiots, well the ones worth having. Nobody in the right mind would want to come to Liverpool with the shot and budget they would get coupled with the high expectations, unrealistic with the means available to us. It is to the credit of Rafa that we can dream the unthinkable of mounting the summit when we are up against teams with the spending power that we are up against.

Thanks Donal, I thought something like that must have happened to Aussie!

FS As for the question you posted i kind of cheated by doing some research
but didnt want to give the answer away but if you look at 162 again specifically
the first letter of each line you’ll notice something.
YNWA

Keith, you know I’m in complete agreement on Rafa being the man for our long term future. But I am starting to worry about keeping him. And as for the short term, well it’s a rather scary picture…
Off the top of my head, in the next game, through injury, we could be without Gerrard, Torres, Agger, Johnson, Skrtle, Kelly, Aurelio and Riera.

And that’s just first teamers. The rest of the squad is riddled with injuries and that bloody mysterious virus too.

To show how serious this situation is, just look at right back…
Johnson is out. Skrtle (Who shouldn’t play it again) is out. Degan and Carrgher are both suspended.

And you could repeat that nightmare with just about every other position on the pitch. So you’d think even our most moronic “Supportes” could see that, and take it into consideration before spouting their drivel. But no doubt they’ll just come out with more shit, demand their right to say it, and say it makes no difference in here.

The only reason I am going back on that subject is… in today’s Daily Mirror there is an article that is nothing but a cut and paste job of comments on another LFC fans site.

I’ve said many times that lazy journos trawl these sites, but this is the first time I’ve ever seen a story in which a journalist has just cut and pasted comments, complete with contributors screen names.

And I’d hope to think people would read that an learn, but that’s pissing in the wind and not worth taking any further.

As for the next game…
Well, at least it’s not until Monday, so we might just see some of the injured/sick players pull through and appear. Then there’s two weeks for Rafa to set about putting things right.

Will that be enough time?
Don’t know, but it is a bit of a bonus.

But one thing I do know for sure, Birmingham will see this as the perfect time to play us and they will be straining to get at us. Scary proposition, but something we’ll have to cope with without whingeing and moaning.

My worry on the long term future is…
Will Rafa leave or get the sack?
I hope not and I can’t really see it at this time.

Will Rafa be driven out by the media?
Probably not, but they could make his job untenable with this malicious mischief of theirs. And make no bones about it, this is what they are trying their best to do.

Will Rafa be tempted away by Real Madrid or another big club?
Definite possibility, especially if everything else keeps going against him.

Will the fans turning against him drive him out?
Definetely.

Not a pretty picture however you look at it.

Steve mate, I get the odd email from Aussie now and again. Haven’t heard from him in awhile, but Donal’s right…
He’s in New Zealand, doing what he’s told when he’s told.

(That’ll get him back in if he sees it).

Ahhh, Rome lad… you clever fucker. I never clocked that. In me best Andy Grey voice…. take a bow lad, take a bow!

Ok, in Rafa’s first 4 years lets just say I wasn’t convinced. I didn’t like the rotation policy or our style of play. Too many signings were mediocre (although they were on the cheap) and I didn’t feel the team was progressing enough. Especially in 2006-07 when I thought the team had gone backwards. During the season of 2007-08 Arsenal were riding high at the top of the league and playing breathtaking football with a squad that cost far less than ours. Meanwhile I was unhappy with our results and our lack of attacking play. I thought Rafa was too cautious and some of the subs he made were very confusing to say the least. Reading away in a 3-1 defeat stands out. I remember foaming at the mouth at the time. At the time it didn’t seem as though we had any major financial difficulties and our boardroom situation had not come to light. All seemed pretty secure on that front. So I reasoned we could very well bring in another top class manager who would have us play a better brand of football, get players with flair, allow them to express themselves and as a result give us a better chance of challenging for the title.

Last season there wasn’t much rotation, we didn’t begin playing great football but we were top of the league and from February we played the best football in the country, scored the most goals and got 86 points. A lot of my doubts were erased. Then before the season was even finished Rafa sends his chief scout to Valencia to discuss the possibilities of bring David Silva to the club. He also wanted Gareth Barry and Glen Johnson. As far as I was concerned had we got those players and kept Alonso, Arbeloa and Hyypia I was confident the title was coming back to Anfield.

Unfortunately the club is skint – no fault of Rafa so he was unable to get his 2 top targets. Not only that but Hyypia rejects a contract and decides to leave for first team football, Alonso is determined to leave and Masch is also determined to leave. So at a key stage in our progress as a football club we face these difficulties and none of it Rafa’s fault in my opinion.

I do not go along with the notion that it is Rafa’s fault that Alonso chose to leave. Xabi had played 4 seasons for us. 1 of those seasons he played very well. Rafa thought he could bring in a player to do a better job. That’s fair enough for me. No doubt he’d like to have Alonso AND Barry but the circumstances with the club’s finances mean that isn’t possible. He reckons Barry – who had just had his best 2 seasons of his career would be a better option than Alonso – a player who has been quite ordinary for 2 seasons. So he tries to sell Alonso to generate funds to buy Barry. Bad man management? My arse. I’d have done the same fucking thing.

It is not Rafa’s fault that the club could not match Aston Villa’s asking price for Barry and it is not his fault that Liverpool couldn’t match the wages being offered to Barry by Man City. It’s not Rafa’s fault Alonso decided he was going to Real Madrid and once he was sold for £30m it wasn’t Rafa’s fault he was only given £17m to find a replacement.

Right, so what to do with the £17m? He decides it might be worth a gamble spending it on a £30m rated midfield player with injury problems. I doubt Rafa is a medical expert so would have listened to physios and doctors opinion of when Aquilani would be available. The common consensus is that the lad should be fit in 6 weeks. That’s 6 weeks from the beginning of August. Rafa thought that was a risk worth taking thinking Masch and Lucas could hold the fort for a few weeks. Stupid decision on Rafa’s part? Debatable. We don’t know what other midfield players were available for the money Rafa had to spend.

At the start of the season we were playing shite even with most of our players available. I was willing to give Rafa the benefit of the doubt though. I felt he deserved that after last season and his attempts in the transfer this summer. Recently the results have been truly awful but I can’t judge him on these performances when half the squad is out ill or injured.

It’s quite clear as well that we are a shambles of a football club at boardroom level and we are skint. Therefore common sense tells me that no top quality manager is going to find LFC attractive at the moment. So if we sack Rafa or he walks I’m pretty sure that we’ll have an inferior manager replacing him with even less money to spend than Rafa had. A bit like what happened to Leeds and Newcastle. Those 2 clubs were run by idiots who sacked good managers – because the clubs were being run poorly they have less and less funds to give the new manager. We all know what happened to those clubs.

I’m confident that our form and results will improve when we get our better players back fit. I am not confident that we’ll win anything though because by the time we get our players back fit it might be too late.

I think if the club was in a better state financially we could have offered Hyypia and Arbie more money to stay. It’s what other big clubs do. Arsenal have suffered from not being able to pay big wages to keep players. Notice Chelsea, Man Utd and even Man City stars are happy on the bench? It’s no wonder when they earn £100k per week. Hell, look at Crouch – heard any moans from him about being on the Spurs bench? No? £70k a week will ease the moaning tendancies.

So imagine we still had Hyypia, Arbie, Alonso then throw in Barry, Johnson and Silva to the rest of the squad. You are then looking at a squad a lot closer to what Rafa wanted to have at his disposal – IF he had the kind of financial backing a club expecting to challenge for the PL and CL should provide. This is why I have given Rafa the benefit of the doubt this season.

And Liverpool sacked Houllier for finishing 4th. Keith has that notorious ‘virus’ rumour ever been confirmed by the club? To the best of my knowledge the club came out with a statement citing a list of injuries as the reasons Cav, Skrtel, Dagger, Aurelio and Ngog couldent play in the Fulham game. I thought that put an end to virus-gate as an unsubstantiated rumour run amok. But here you are propagating a myth that ‘a virus hits half the team’. Not to be pedantic but, dont we love our facts in here?

Digger, Rafa confirmed in a few press conferences that Lucas had a virus and in a later press conference said Aquilani had a virus.

My Five, always open for discussion
Analytical
Shrewd
Tactically Astute
Aloof
Stubborn

LB, I will add to your great comments though that the Reading game substitution was substantially very similar to the ones he made against fulham.

I remember we had an argument back then on the validity of his decision to withdraw stevie, but I hope your thinking has evolved since then LoL!!

Tut tut Digger. The virus has been well substantiated. I came in here before it was public knowledge and said it was swine flu. That was what I had been told by a very reliable source. He also told me of the problems Torres had, which I then passed on in here. He might have got the actual diagnosis wrong, but in my book Virus and Tear To Stomache muscles aren’t a million miles away from Hernia and Swine Flu (Seeing it’s rampant in England right now).

So, I don’t see how mythical excuses are being pulled out of a hat. In fact, I can only take my hat off to Rafa for refusing to make excuses at a time like this. Other managers would be screaming them by now, with full back up from the LMA and the media.

LB, that is exactly the type of argument I see other lads make. But I’m glad you voiced it properly in here. Maybe some people might take some notice to it when it’s not coming from a card carrying, fully paid up, founder member of the GagonRafastackle brigade.

Glad you liked that FS if only KK and co would read 163 and pay the same
attention to detail they might finally get the message.Not that i think they
will but its worth a try.
YNWA

If it wasn’t LFC we are talking about, I’d say Rafa is trying to shine shite. It just doesn’t happen. And all we can realistically hope for is the owners recieve an offer that satisfies their greed and they fuck off. But I won’t hold me breath on that happening.

And I hate to say it, but I can see things getting a whole lot worse before a proper solution to the club’s woes is found.

Hyde, I don’t remember Torres and Gerrard being unfit in that Reading game? Hence me foaming at the mouth at the time.

Another thing I forgot to mention in my epic was this: a lot of people criticise the fact we have no adequate back up for Torres. Well remember we sold Robbie Keane in January for £16m. Why has Rafa not had that money to buy a replacement? Instead he had to bring back Voronin.

I’m staggered that people do not look at these things before saying Rafa has been here 5 years so should have a better squad.

I’m also forgetting that Digger doesn’t realise that everyone and his dog is getting swine flu/virus in the UK at the moment. Mate, its rampant.

Your’re right, FS. I’m also worried Rafa may leave. He’s the best person to lead us, considering the limited budget he’s had.

Despite what people have said, he’s the best manager in the EPL since he joined Liverpool. I’ll compare him with the commonly regarded best ones.

1) The Special Needs One
His team started to fall apart once he had his support and unlimited spending power removed by Abromovich. Rafa had already put up with the 2 clowns for more than 2 seasons, never with any serious money to begin with.

2) Ferguscum
His team only won the league after Abromovich started tightening his purse. If we remember the first season when the Glaziers started, Man U suffered very badly, likely due to boardroom politics and concerns over their debts (familiar?). And after that, they resumed their spending and the rest is history. And here again, support from the boardroom + transfer $$. The fact that Rafa ran him so close last season against Fergie’s “best ever team” (he said that himself) just show how good Rafa is.

3) Whinger
People seem to forget that Rafa has won more trophies than Wenger since he joined Liverpool, including the one that Wenger really craves. And we’ve been above Arse the last 2 (or is it 3?) seasons. Again, Wenger has a supportive board who’ve not succumbed to sack him despite his “poor” results over the last 5 years after building the “invincibles” team. Again, we see the importance of a supportive board.

4) Graeme Souness, or Sourpuss as he’s affectionately called

Isn’t it funny that Liverpool’s worst manager in the last 18 years is now labelling the best one not good enough for the club? And it’s stranger that some “supporters” are quoting him to strengthen their claims.

FS, I haven’t supported Liverpool as long as you’ve had (only about 25 years), but I’m also very crossed at these kneejerk supporters who believe the words of the stupid press.

Rome77, if they had the brains to be able to they still wouldn’t. These are the new breed of fans that have attached themselves to us since Istanbull and sadly they are the type of people who think it’s much more important to see their opinions proved right rather than LFC succeed.

LB, I’m going to go and try to find that article about players wages. Anyone with half a brain in here would enjoy it, and learn from it.

Fair enough LB, but ‘half the team’? Mythology at its worst in this case. Using a commonly held perception to further or accentuate ones point or goal. But then, as they say, perception is reality eh? As John Ford said; if your wondering whether to print the truth or the legend, go with the legend. So, 2 lads confirmed as sick (but 1 able to play) and an injury list explains the other 5 absentees. Half the team? I love legends!

FS, Rafa is trying to shine shite. Watch what happens when Masch leaves in January or the summer. He’d go for £40m. How much of that will Rafa get to add to the squad? I can see him having to replace Masch with an £8m dude and then getting criticised for weakening the side.

LB, of course, I know your logic on that one mate, and the subject matter was all about whether it was right or reasonable to “save” players for a more upcoming important game than to wear them out in a game in which the conclusion was seemingly foregone (regardless of whether they were nursing injuries). I just thought your views had evolved a bit since then but I guess you are still firmly in the “always play your strongest 11″ camp. I just happen to disagree with the “always” part.

But that’s not for here.

Have a good weekend lads, and birmingham is going to be another test for us. The substance of their football has been pretty good of late, and I am a little bit wary of seeing christian “chucho” benitez runnning against our emergency back-line. Fingers crossed.

Digger, whats your point though? Half the side was unavailable was it not? Aquilani, Ngog, Skrtle, Riera, Johnson, Agger, Aurelio, Kelly, Cavlieri and Torres was unfit. Now Carra and Degen are suspended lol.

Apparently Agger had to stand on the plane to Lyon because of his back injury. Rafa has been forced to pick players who aint fit. Aquilani was only on the bench to make up the numbers I reckon. He was never gonna play but we need 7 subs.

Who cares whether they have swine flu, hemmoroids, a hernia or the clap. They aint fit – thats the point. Unless I’m missing something.

Came into say I can’t find that bloody article. But it’s nice to see Digger’s over his virus and is back to his old sceptical self.

LB, I fear that that is only the tip of the iceberg… If we don’t get shut of the owners shortly they will then give up all pretence of any “Stewardship,” and do exactly what they have done at all of their previous sports franchises, install a puppet manager, and asset strip them until there is nothing but a shell left.

It’s not scaremongering. It’s not even legend or mythology. It’s a credible guesstimate based on past fact and statements made by both owners.

No, no, no Hyde. The Reading game was not just about playing your best 11 camp against the saving players philosophy. We were 2-1 down in a league game with 20 mins left and took off our 2 best players who were both fit. That is a bit different than merely resting a player for a game.

LB the squad that flew out to Lyon was 19 strong… the bare minimum. Agger did have to stand the whole journey and injured players were taken along to make up the numbers.

But fuck all that. Rafa should have started with his best 11 and kept them all on the field until we were 7 goals up and then withdrew them.

Digger,

Please do the counting;

For Fulham game, we have 7 players unavailable: Agger, Skrtel, Gerrard, Aurelio, Ngog, Johnson, Riera unavailable, together with a half fit Torres + half fit Lucas. With the exception of Ngog, we’re talking about 6 first team players out of 11. Is that mythology that half the team is out?

Look at Lyon game: Only Agger became available, and Ngog was a substitute. It’s slightly better but 5 out of 11 is also close to half the first team being unavailable. Is that mythology again?

Now for Birmingham: Gerrard, Aurelio, Johnson, Riera, Carra unavailable (I don’t even include Deggan as he’s not first team), Skrtel, Torres unsure. Is that mythology again?

I hope the numbers here can convince you…

The point is LB that ‘facts’ are apparantly sacrosanct in here and are bandied about as the standard by which all opinions are either validated or dismissed. Whats good for the goose my friend….

Well, your mythology has just been debunked by my facts, unless you can count or divide by 11

i mean can’t count

…. Is good for the Gander? Keith being the Gander?

Change of subject Digger. You said you were a Jets fan if memory serves me correct. How can you have the 2nd best defence. The best running offence…. And be 4-4?

Digger i had that swine flu back in the summer it took about 3 days to run it’s
course. But i also ended up with a Herniated disk in my spine due to coughing
which was a direct result of weakened muscles the virus brings this could
explain the later strains some of the players suffered.
If it wasnt for Dougle’s advice id have probably been in the situation Agger is
still in now because surgery is not the answer, as his trip to Lyon proved.
As it is ive been signed off sick for the last 3 months although i could have
returned 6 weeks ago but ive been skyving a bit .Alas my sicknote runs out
this week so its back to work monday.
YNWA

Ahh here’s the Digger of old… Maybe this will help. Facts should indeed be sacrosant if you are going to attack the club and the manager with wild accusations.

However, I think most of us can see the difference between that and saying half the team was out due to inury and illness… especially when the fact is, we had a squad of 19 players that we could take to Lyon due to either injury or virus. Or should Keith have researched who was injured and who was ill before stating the obvious?

No sweat, FS, I know you were only having a go at Bollock Burger in post #138.

I just thought I’d convey my perception of the level of support Rafa has in here, and further clarify my thoughts on the woeful Voronin, that’s all.

In the case of Rafa, I agree with you when you say that alot of people will be taken in by the shit that the media feed them, but in most cases if people really want to find the truth then they will find it. Real supporters have much more idea of exactly what the situation is because they make it their business to know. They love the club and want the facts. I’d say that that covers about 85-90% of us in here. YNWA.

No disagreement there Steve, but as I said… it’s the ridiculous type of post Istanbul fan with their non-existent knowledge, and god given opinion, that are making the loudest noise.

We all know they are bloody idiots and shouldn’t even be listened to, but these are the very people that the media use to promote their Rafa out agenda.

Talking of viruses, it’s like one of them nasty flesh eating things that won’t stop until it’s eaten away the host or as they like to say the club they love and bleed for.

I stopped going in one place simply because these sort of people completely over ran it. It was actually quite funny reading some of the stuff. Here’s an example…
I booed at the West Ham game. It’s my right. I paid to go.

If you remember rightly, the draw against West Ham put us on top of the table which makes the “opinion” ridiculous enough. But here’s the hilarious or scary thing depending on your point of view… It turned out the fella who had the good given right to boo the team and the manager for going top of the leagues, was at his first (and probably last) ever game.

And to think these kunts could possibly topple the manager.

Frightening.

Excellent post #203 LB, well structured informative and objective.

Perhaps some op the posters who have been continually slagging Rafa off just recently should start to look at the whole picture as well.

FS, I’m gonna have to borrow your Shankly 1970 league result analogy for some other forum, it’s just too excellent.

And unless their brains are so narrow minded into actually thinking Souness is Liverpool’s best manager ever, than surely they must see the perspective this analogy provides.

I know what you mean FS, it is getting really worrying, and the point you make about Rafa’s position possibly becoming untenable is the most worrying aspect of it.

The Media are a bunch of “kunts” (never seen it spelt like that before) and are well versed in hounding managers out of their jobs. We need to start getting a few wins just to get these fuckers off Rafa’s back (plus of course all the other good things a few wins would give us) but with the Anfield treatment room resembling emergency ward 10 at the moment, things are not looking good.

We won our last home game, against the Mancs, so 3 points from the Birmingham game on Monday night would be a blessing going into the break.

FS, here are the top 50 players wages (per week and annual) compiled and reported in Mar 2008:

POS NAME CLUB Per Week Annual

1 Ricardo Kaka AC Milan £143,438 £7,458,750
2 Ronaldinho Gaucho FC Barcelona £135,788 £7,060,950
3 Frank Lampard Chelsea FC £130,050 £6,762,600
4 John Terry Chelsea FC £130,050 £6,762,600
5 Fernando Torres Liverpool FC £126,225 £6,563,700
6 Andriy Shevchenko Chelsea FC £124,313 £6,464,250
7 Michael Ballack Chelsea FC £124,313 £6,464,250
8 Cristiano Ronaldo Manchester Utd £122,400 £6,364,800
9 Thierry Henry FC Barcelona £122,400 £6,364,800
10 Steven Gerrard Liverpool FC £122,400 £6,364,800
11 Didier Drogba Chelsea FC £117,619 £6,116,175
12 Wayne Rooney Manchester Utd £116,663 £6,066,450
13 Iker Casillas CF Real Madrid £114,750 £5,967,000
14 Michael Owen Newcastle Utd £107,100 £5,569,200
15 Sol Campbell Portsmouth £105,188 £5,469,750
16 Raul Gonzalez CF Real Madrid £102,319 £5,320,575
17 Ruud Van Nistelrooy CF Real Madrid £102,319 £5,320,575
18 Rio Ferdinand Manchester Utd £96,581 £5,022,225
19 Darren Bent Tottenham Hotspur £94,669 £4,922,775
20 Carlos Tevez Manchester Utd £93,713 £4,873,050
21 Fabio Cannavaro CF Real Madrid £93,713 £4,873,050
22 Luca Toni Bayern Munique £87,975 £4,574,700
23 Robinho CF Real Madrid £87,975 £4,574,700
24 Francesco Totti AS Roma £87,019 £4,524,975
25 Arjen Robben CF Real Madrid £85,106 £4,425,525
26 Ryan Giggs Manchester Utd £83,194 £4,326,075
27 Michael Essien Chelsea FC £80,325 £4,176,900
28 Adriano Lima Internazionale £79,751 £4,147,065
29 Zlatan Ibrahimovic Internazionale £79,751 £4,147,065
30 Patrick Vieira Internazionale £79,751 £4,147,065
31 Gianluigi Buffon Juventus FC £79,751 £4,147,065
32 Samuel Eto´o FC Barcelona £79,751 £4,147,065
33 Charles Puyol FC Barcelona £79,751 £4,147,065
34 Sergio Aguero Atletico Madrid £79,751 £4,147,065
35 Oliver Kahn Bayern Munique £78,795 £4,097,340
36 Edwin Vandersar Manchester Utd £77,456 £4,027,725
37 Fernando Morientes Valência £77,456 £4,027,725
38 Alessandro Del Piero Juventus FC £76,500 £3,978,000
39 Harry Kewell Liverpool FC £76,500 £3,978,000
40 Djibril Cisse O,Marselha £76,500 £3,978,000
41 Joe Cole Chelsea FC £74,588 £3,878,550
42 Pedro Pauleta Paris SG £73,440 £3,818,880
43 Juninho Pernanbucano O,Lyon £72,675 £3,779,100
44 David Beckham LA Galaxy £71,719 £3,729,375
45 David Trezeguet Juventus FC £71,719 £3,729,375
46 Sidney Govou O,Lyon £71,719 £3,729,375
47 Deco FC Barcelona £71,719 £3,729,375
48 Gianluca Zambrotta FC Barcelona £71,719 £3,729,375
49 Petr Cech Chelsea FC £68,850 £3,580,200
50 Antonio Cassano Sampdoria £66,938 £3,480,750

Emergency Ward 10… bloody hell Steve. You’re showing your age there mate. What’s next… Doctor Kildaires case book.

But that is the thing indeed… the media are on a mission and they are very well versed at it. I’ve seen them topple many people in many walks of life, politicians, etc. And it’s like a run away train, once they start this all balance goes out the window. And no matter, the circumstances or the truth of the situation, they will just keep gnawing away at it until they’ve exhausted it and then move onto the next victim.

It’s not even something new. I’ve seen it since way back. And the other week I watched a documentary about Jack The Ripper. You know the letter sent to the police… “Hi. I’m Jack.”

Well it was actually sent by one newspaper, editor and reporters, that wanted to keep their circulation as high as possible. It’s thought this gave the Killer more opportunities to carry on killing as it fucked up the police investigation.

It’s what papers/the media do. People make the mistake that it’s the media’s job to report fact. Bollacks. They are there to sell their product, no more no less. And the best way to do that is, hype up a long running story until it becomes a frenzy.

Why do you think the likes of Whelan and Souness are being promoted every where you look? You won’t see Aldo, or anyother loyal ex-player manager being touted around like that. Funny that eh.

Oh well, like you say, 3 points against Birmingham should be the only thing on anyone’s mind right now. And the funny thing is… amongst all the doom and gloom, no ones noticed that if a few other results go our way, we’ll be right back up there.

Kinny no need to ask. Feel free to post anything I put in here. Don’t expect people to take any notice though. As you can see in here, it’s a waste of time. Even with proof of Rafa’s actual spending, some people are still saying how he’s wasted gazillions on millions of players. Shame is they’d rather believe the likes of Souness and Whelan than show a little loyalty to the man that’s doing his best on their behalf.

My only hope is that Rafa has put so much into the club, the restructuring, the youth set etc that it would take something really special to make him walk. One would defiantly be if he lost the support of the fans. I have no worry what so ever that the Twats will fire him. They don’t fucking care and it would cost them 20 mill quid, he is probably the safest Manager in the league.

Also the man is bright and like a lot of us knows this team is good, if thin depth wise. On any given day we can beat anybody. To win the league we had to remain reasonable injury free because of that. This year is extraordinary in terms of what has happened.

Digger you are being pedantic for the sake of an argument because you have nothing better to have a go. It was not meant to be a scientific account of who is out with what, but a statement that we have lost half our first team squad for what ever reason as LB pointed out. Great post by the way LB. Yes we need to get a result against B’Ham and hope the two weeks is enough to get most of the regulars fit, then its game on. If not it could be a long and torturous season for us.

Contrary to popular belief, I have to work like the rest of us. In fact, this is normally my busiest time of the year. But it’s been a miserable bloody day here today – grey at best, black at worst, wet, cold, freezing, huge winds heavy rain and showers. So that left me with nothing do but sit here all day. Good debate going on for a change of late. Sad that’s it all pretty much bad news.

There’s no escaping it though. There’s a terrible cloud hanging over the club at the moment. But, well on the playing front at least, all isn’t bad news.

There’s still a lot of season ahead of us. So at least we have time on our side. We can still work at putting things right, and remember… we’re out of nothing yet. We can still win trophies in all competitions. (Yeah okay Dig. I know the Carling’s gone). But imagine all this happening at the business end of the season. That would properly drive me mental.

But anyway, what I really wanted to say… You’re right Keith in all you said about Rafa’s job. But don’t count out the media or Hicks and Gillette…
I have no doubt that they’d axe Rafa if he became to troublesome, no matter the cost… they’d just pile that onto the debt anyway.

And as for the media, they are reaching the point of no return. In fact, there’s been so much bad said, that they’ve probably hit the point where there’s no way back. It’s absolutely constant and an all.

I read a blog on Rafa today in the Guardian. It was the usual stuff – Rafa out. There was a change in the comments in there though. Whereas fans of other clubs have been lapping this up for weeks now, they were all complaining about the paper never reporting anything else.

No sympathy was expressed, just boredom with a topic that there’s no escaping. But the media won’t let loose now. And here’s the rub…

The lies have moved onto reporting Rafa has lost the players as fact, although I haven’t seen any player as much as hinting at any such thing.

But the real worrying new tactic is how they are trying to turn Rafa into a figure of mockery. Once they succeed in doing that, I think that could be it. I’ve seen many managers go once they’ve been reduced to just a figure of mockery. I’ve never seen one recover, not in the job they occupy anyway.

Our immediate target should be the 4th place in the table. Some people were talking about how disgusting it would be to play in the Europa cup. I would also not like us to play there but if it happens i think it will be a great opportunity for Rafa to give the young players a chance.Carling cup was their only platform.

Dr Kidare’s casebook??? Sorry FS, bit before my time, that one! lol.

As soon as I mentioned the New York Jets Digger did one! lol.

Sorry Knight missed your figures on players wages. If you look at the figures you will see we only have 3 players on the list. And they might be old, but I don’t think much will have changed in as how many LFC players feature on the list.

But there’s a lot more to the article I was trying to find, and some of it is in line with what LB has been saying about wages and keeping a big squad happy. It makes for very interesting reading.

It’s written by an economics expert, but he’s a football fan. Well, he’s a Man U fan actually. Which just makes it even more interesting as it also concentrates on Rafa Benitez and shows how unfairly he is judged and how ridiculous some of the expectations heaped on him are.

I’ve spent at least an hour rooting around for it today. So that’s that, I’m not wasting any more time on it. And anyway, as usual, those who should most read it won’t, and probably wouldn’t understand it if they did.

There’s so much to it, that it’s impossible to put in a nutshell. But, as I said, one of the main points is something LB touched on… it’s not only necessary to be able to buy the best players and pay the first team top wages. The bench has to be on top wages too, otherwise they will just want away.

Of course there’s the exception to the rule. The likes of Pennant and Intandje will always prefer to sit on their arses and collect their wages rather than move to a smaller team for full time football. But unless they are collecting top wages, most footballers will always want to leave if they can get regular first team footy elsewhere.

There’s much more to it than that. It shows why Rafa has had such a hard time assembling the squad we have and what trouble he faces keeping it together and how the problems will worsen now that contract rises have to be taken from the transfer funds.

In fact, maybe it’s a good job I can’t find it. It makes for worrying reading.

Nah LB, just gotta work bud. On me much deserved lunch break now! Axchoice, I can count alright, clearly you cant read. Read 204 and 214 again. Slowly and aloud if it helps. But 10 out of 10 for effort lad. Keith I said I was trying to avoid being pedantic mate but if we are to maintain our oft self proclaimed position as a paragon of virtue then as a member of our little community I couldent stand by and let one of our standard bearers compromise our lofty position and play fast and loose with the facts.

FS i have taken so of your advise i think it was you and i dont read anytink that is in the press about us as they have an agenda about the club for some reason. i dont know what they have against rafa, but it sure is shit what they are writing currently. they seem to know if they attack our manager then it gets to the true fans and winds them up. there is more sense in here from most of the lads, and i like it that you deal in facts.

I have been watching the reses, and rafa has found some good young lads, who if handled correctly will be good for LFC. some of them may not quite make it all though they will make reasonable players, they ay not quite be good enough for us,but hey they will make us some money, or should i say the two wanks, as we sure as shit wont see much of it.

I just came across this. Not sure if you guys have seen it but it is very interesting.

http://tomkinstimes.com/2009/10/the-cost-of-premiership-success/

This bit stands out:

“While my research for Red Race looked at the entire Premiership last season, the main interest obviously now lies with the big six – the recently established ‘big four’, plus Manchester City and Spurs, whose spending demands greater scrutiny.

For example, when Liverpool lost to Spurs on the opening day, the Reds’ side cost £95.8m compared with the Londoners’ £135.2m. People can talk all they want about Benítez’s spending, but the fact is he has never been able to have an expensive team, because he’s often had to sell in order to buy.

Harry Redknapp is doing a very good job at White Hart Lane, but he has already been able to field a more expensive side than Benítez has managed in over five seasons.”

“You cannot fault our effort” says Daniel Agger.

Hmmm…. clearly the lad hasn’t visited Kopblog or other forums much.

_______

Just read an interesting article on the beeb site about the collapse of the berlin wall and how it affected footy.
Thought this part was interesting…

On 9 November 1989, Andreas Thom was with his international team-mates, as East Germany prepared for a World Cup qualifier with Austria in Vienna.

“When the wall came down, I was really surprised, and we asked ourselves: what happens now with our contracts? We didn’t really know what we had to do. It definitely affected the (East Germany) team a little bit.”

Thom was one of the star players for BFC Dynamo – the club in East Berlin backed by the Stasi. They were dominant – winning ten consecutive Oberliga titles, amidst suspicions referees were pressurised.

But Thom is reluctant to accept the team’s success was down to cheating. “The club was really hated in East Germany by everyone. But for me as a young player, it was really good. I learned very much in that time.”

“A few decisions were, maybe, not correct, but when you play 26 games a year, it cannot be manipulated by only referees. We had, in that time, a very good team.”

…. Now …
…if we change just a few words of that article…
…we get this…

On 9 November 1989, Ryan Giggs was with his reserve team-mates, as Wales prepared for a World Cup qualifier.

Giggs tells World Football: “I was in Cardiff preparing for my first international call up in my career. But I whacked my funny bone on a door frame and Mr. Ferguson recalled me – it was really a disaster.”

“When the Premiership started, I was really surprised, and we asked ourselves: what happens now with our contracts? We didn’t really know what we had to do to get our hands on some of that cash that was floating around. It definitely affected the United team.”

Giggs was one of the star players emerging for Manchester United – the club in East Lancs backed by the Premiership (er… actually could have left that bit as Stasi). They were dominant – winning ten Premiership titles, amidst suspicions referees were pressurised.

But Giggs is reluctant to accept the team’s success was down to cheating. “The club was really hated by everyone outside of London. But for me as a young player, it was really good. I learned very much in that time.”

“A few decisions were, maybe, not correct, but when you play 26 games a year, it cannot be manipulated by only referees, you need people at the FA as well. We had, in that time, a very expensive team.”

I also found this:

Soccernomics
Again, please, everyone – go and read Soccernomics. And that applies to people being paid to write about the game.

A club’s wage bill has been proven, through extensive studies dating over many seasons, to reflect where it finishes in the league, to an accuracy of 92%.

Liverpool have the 5th-highest wage bill, down from 4th last season. City have flown past, with several strikers on £100,000+ a week, even before getting to the sums being paid to Gareth Barry, Joleon Lescott, et al.

David Conn, the highly regarded writer at the Guardian who specialises in off the field issues, recently said “Liverpool’s north American owners, Tom Hicks and George Gillett, have produced not a sod of the new stadium they arrived in 2007 with a promise to build, but have saddled Liverpool with debt, including the £174.1m cost of their own takeover. In the summer, they did manage to refinance their borrowings, reportedly with a commitment to reduce the £313m the club owed down to £250m. That was not an apparent boost to Rafael Benítez’s transfer kitty, and still leaves Liverpool seriously stretched.

“In their 44,500-seat home, Liverpool have for years now been the relatively poor relations in the Premier League’s top four; their income last year, £159m, was way below that of Arsenal and Chelsea, and almost £100m behind Manchester United, who loom as the next Premier League opponents at Anfield on Sunday.”

Let’s get back to squad costs, though.

In 2009, Benítez has sold Keane, Alonso, Arbeloa and Leto for a maximum of £57m (if Keane’s bonuses are met).

At a time when he should have been able to strengthen the squad, to build upon last season’s exploits, he has spent just £36m (rising to £39m). This is not through choice, as everyone knows. After all, who would not want to invest in his squad at a time like this?

Why is the club stalling this season? Aside from injuries and refereeing blunders (while both players and management also have to take their share of responsibility for those bad results), the squad has been left slightly lighter in numbers.

Net spend is important. But Liverpool could have sold Mascherano (who was until last week absent in mind) and not bought Aquilani (who’s thus far been absent in body), and had exactly the same season, only with a far lower net spend. They could have sold Torres and Reina, too, and been mid-table, but Rafa massively in profit.

Let’s remember: Ferguson has only had three months without Ronaldo, whose £80m fee now lessens his net spend massively, and yet whenever he’s sent out a weakened team in the league since the winger’s departure, they’ve either lost (Burnley), or somehow escaped (Sunderland).

And even their best team, missing only Darren Fletcher, was hopelessly lacking cutting edge at Anfield, against a Liverpool side lacking Gerrard and Aquilani, and with Torres not fully fit. (I accept that Aquilani is still an unknown quantity, but in theory he is in Rafa’s strongest XI.)

A couple of years ago, United looked an awesome side, with Ronaldo, Rooney and Tevez attacking from all angles, and Scholes and Giggs still at the races; last year they won the title based mostly on defensive brilliance. This year, they’ve yet to impress me at all. That can all change, but it’s yet to be seen if the profit Ferguson has made was the right thing for the team.

Their squad doesn’t appear as strong as it was, but it hasn’t been tested to its limits yet. A few more injuries, and we’ll see.

Even so, Ferguson still has a far more expensive squad than Benítez, and a far higher wage bill. So that tells you the story of relative wealth.

If United can win the league this year without Ronaldo (and Tevez), then fair enough, that net spend will have at least some significance; but despite a good start, United have yet to ‘achieve’ anything after receiving that £80m. And according to the findings in Soccernomics, Liverpool should not be able to get close to United based on the most crucial factor in the sport.

I’m repeating this paragraph from another piece I wrote: Soccernomics, written in part by a Manchester United fan (the economist Steven Szymanski), concludes that although Alex Ferguson is a top manager, United’s ability to have such a high wage bill during the Premiership years means that his success is only in proportion with what a man with his resources should achieve; not greater.

According to Soccernomics, wages are nine-tenths of the law. In that case, Liverpool overachieved last season. By some distance.

Szymanski and Kuper conclude that Player transfer fees are unreliable. For instance, Michael Ballack cost nothing, but is paid £121,000 a week, plus a hefty signing-on bonus. You can buy players cheaply or expensively, or have kids come through the ranks, but ultimately the best end up on high wages, or they leave.

See how much sense it makes now? My aim is not do disparage Ferguson, whose record demands (and gets) respect. It is simply to make sure Benítez is judged fairly. Until Liverpool can afford a wage bill to match the big payers, the economics of football dictate that no manager can win the club a league title.

When the roles were reversed 20 years ago, Ferguson’s net spend was twice as high as Kenny Dalglish’s. Yet United spent most of the first four years of Ferguson’s tenure mid-table or below.

But of course, Ferguson had to spend big to try and close the gap. It took six years, and the departure of Dalglish, to do so.

Thanks LB… very interesting reading.
I liked the table of the 71 most expensive starting line-ups for the 08/09 season.

We featured once… when drawing with Aston Villa 0-0.
Yet we were the opponent 4 times… and in each case we beat the more expensive team.

That’s by the same fella LB. His articles are in the Guardian usually under the same title Soccernomics. He’s done a few. I couldn’t find the one I read. I’ll keep looking, but well you can lead a horse to water and that…

As for the Tomkins article I read that and there’s another cracker by him that I’ll dig up and post the link for anyone who’s interested in reading something a bit more thoughtful than Rafa’s spent gaxillions on billions of players and there still a 2 man team.

Here’s something a bit more to their liking…

Been listening to Talk Shite a bit today. They done a whole big segment on Liverpool and Man U being the only premiereship teams not to have poppies embroidered in their shirts this weekend. Both clubs got absolutely slaughtered for it, with the hosts egging callers on as they ranted about dishonouring the countries war dead.

Can’t speak for Man U, but here’s what the British Legion had to say about Liverpool…
http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N166374091106-1722.htm

Maybe the stupid bastards at Talk Shite forgot that poppies and our home shirts are the same bloody colour… Or more straightforwardly put -How fucking low can these dirty bastards go.

I think someone from the club should be onto them right now demanding an appology and a retraction. Won’t do anything but some of our mensa dodging fans might even see there’s a crusade on.

Torres’ situation is drifting into a worse case scenario. Voronin ain’t going no where in January.

This bit bears repeating :

“According to Soccernomics, wages are nine-tenths of the law. In that case, Liverpool overachieved last season. By some distance. ”

It is perhaps the single most important fact there is.

LB and FS, great posts. Can’t stay on to chat as home life has me running allover the place. Rome 77 glad to see you made the best of a bad situation !!!!

I am feeling that both Gerrard and Nando won’t last the season without going under the knife. Unfortunately this has happened to Gerrard (last season?) and it looks like it ain’t going away. Both are overplayed and both have brought this upon themselves to some degree with playing in stupid pointless friendlies. I say to a degree because the international managers as well as FIFA greed have a big part in it.

I think it’s going to be a very tough few months ahead and every scrappy hard earned one goal win, in any game, is a great result in my book. This starts with Birmingham who could and should have beaten Spurs, as well as keeping them scoreless, last week. 1-0 please, in off Voronin’s considerable arse if it must be so.

double, I reckon 2-0… which is rather balsy given our makeshift defense we’ll field.

The 1st, in off Ngog’s ngoggin from 8 yards, and the 2nd, a 25 yard piledriver from Voronin’s cock!

Top 20 players (latest 12 months) ranked by Daniel Finkelstein:

Torres (no 5) and Gerrard (17) are on the list..
http://extras.timesonline.co.uk/pdfs/sport/finktank071109.pdf

Fink Tank: “Our figures show Benitez outperforms the wage bill. Blame the Americans. Not Rafa.”

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/fink_tank/article6897323.ece

LFC Chances of winning the prem this year:

http://extras.timesonline.co.uk/pdfs/sport/finktank311009.pdf

Comments from an LFC fan in The Times:

“Chris Healy wrote:
I’m not the biggest Rafa fan by any means. I often find his team selection bizarre and at times he appears so stubborn it drives me mad. But, in his defence his record in the transfer market when the board have backed him with the funds he needs to buy the player he considers his 1st choice (Torres, Alonso, Riera, Mascherano, Johnson) he has done very well. It’s the players he’s had to buy to fill up the squad that have let him down and they’ve rarely been the player he wanted. Example: he bought Babel for £11m because the board didn’t give him the funds to compete with Chelsea to sign Malouda who was the player he wanted.

Skrtel, Agger, Benayoun, Kuyt, Arbeloa and Aurelio can hardly be considered disasters and they were all relatively cheap players in today’s market. Whatever people say about Rafa’s spending overall his record is pretty good, far better than Houllier, Evans or Souness.

You also need to look beyond transfer fees. It’s the size of the wage bill at a club that really shows who has the spending power and Liverpool are way behind Utd, Chelsea and even City in that respect. If Rafa could buy two £30m players every summer and pay them over £100k a week plus sign one or two promising young or older experienced players as well I have no doubt Rafa has the quality to deliver a league trophy.

Football’s a money game and Liverpool are simply in a different financial league to 2 or 3 other teams in England these days.

Don’t blame Rafa, blame past and present owners directors for failing to develop the club off the field over the last 20 years to maximise the huge global fanbase and potential revenue. There’s a good reason Utd have dominated the English game for 20 years and it’s not all about Sir Alex.”

Fink Tank proposes a new way to keep score. Don’t give points for games. Add up the goals scored instead. Makes a lot of sense and we get to see more exciting games, likely with more goals (which is what fans want to see in the first place). Here’s the difference between scoring with points and using goal difference. Based on goal difference, we would have won in 2008-9 season:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/fink_tank/article6849934.ece

One of the ways to change the point ladder is to change the points system, 1 point for 0-0 draw, 2 points for score draw and 3 points for outright win. We have the system in our local league and it keeps teams in the comp while encouraging them to bang some goals in.

the rugby boys get an extra point if they score four trys why not give an extra point for three goals in a game plus the winning three ponts. so if you win 1-0 you get three points if you win 3-2 you get four points if you draw 3-3 you get two ponts one for the draw and one for the 3 goals.etc

No. No. No, lads. The last thing I want to see is tinkering with the game itself. I read Fink Tank all the time Knight. It’s one of the few quality columns. And I haven’t read that one yet, but tinkering with the games rules is out of order in my book.

Okay refs make blunders. They always have. What has changed is the constant scrutiny and the slattings they recieve. It should be laid down in the laws of the game, that it is a game riddled with human error and we should just get on with it.

Anyway, as you can see in the last few posts, there are little havens of sanity even in the british media. Sad thing is… very few people read, listen to or watch them. The Sun is the biggest selling “Newspaper” in Britain and we all know what they think of us. Talk Shite is huge over here, the biggest. A few of the lads listened to it on the internet, and it’s content is often reported in here. And it’s good that everyone except the Rafa bashers in here know the sort of treatment LFC/Rafa are continually given in the mass popular media of this country. And that is what forms the “Opinion” of the masses.

As I said in my last post… LFC have just been savaged in the popular press and on Talk Shite for dishonouring Britain’s war dead.

And that, my friends, is completely beyond the pale.

Here’s the link again to what The British Legion said about LFC and their help with the appeals for the war dead of Britain…
http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N166374091106-1722.htm

The British Legion are the main charity for the millions of people, and their dependants, who have served, and are serving, in all the Armed Forces of this country.

I’d much rather be talking football, but I think I have to let you know how bad this agenda against LFC and Rafa has become.

This is how the British media works. Like I said earlier, it gets somone/something in it’s sights and it hones in on it, and gnaws away until it destroys them then it moves on to it’s next target.

This might seem over the top, but it’s not some mad paranoia. I know how the media machine in this country works and believe me it has Rafa firmly in it’s sights.

When I miss a match, I have to wait to see the highlights on MOTD. Usually LFC are one of the last games to be shown, unless they are playing one of the other big clubs or are in trouble. Last week against Fulham, they were on first and the camers spent most of the game zeroing in on Rafa, even sneakily from behind his back, to show him sweating. Harmless? Harmless my arse.

To show how disgusting our media is, how’s this…
When Stanley Collymoore was caught dogging (Having sex in public) the media literally destroyed the man. Now he is a football commentator for TV, (Channel 5), he is a commentator for Talk Shite, he has a phone in show on there, and he has a daily column in The Daily Mirror.

I’d love to see some statistics for his shows and column. I don’t read anything by the daft bastard, and I turn the radio off immeadiately I hear him now. But on the few occasions I did read/listen it was always the same thing… LFC are shite, Rafa out.

The irony of it would be hilarious, if it wasn’t so damaging.

Anyway, enough of that. I just wanted to tell you what’s going on here, and the fact is, in the popular media, Rafa is now getting the treatment that is usually reserved for politicians and paedeophiles. And that’s as bad as it can get.

Hopefully the lads will start to put things right and a few good results will stop all this malicious mischief and see us start to rub a few people’s noses in it.

Sorry to be such a drag, but I think it had to be said.

read that collimore the wanker said he would like to see mourinio in charge, well he can only do anything if he as money to buy. rafa has kept us going on a crap budget. fuck the papers use your eye and hear, and common sense, you can see what happening if you look. FS NOT A DRAG its nice to read your thought you bring sanity into things. just hope rafa dont get to pissed and goes. if hes so bad why does real madrid whnt him. you dont know what youre got till its gone. so beware what you whish for some of you rafa bashers

Aitch, Let’s hope Voronin is better with his cock than he is with either foot or his head then!

The Sun gets picked up and reported in our Malaysia newspapers because teh Sports Editor is a Man U fan. the latest is the 13 errors of Rafa, all bullshit. Sigh!

Well he looks like a porn star, but at this moment I reckon he’d struggle to score in a brothel.

Jim, I’m thick mate. It’s why I’m amazed that if I can see it, why can’t some of the most “Knowledgable” fans in football?

There’s been some cracking posts in here over the last couple of days, since the idiots have been put in their place. Sadly it took days and days to straighten it out. It always does.

But to put it all in a nutshell, in my opinion…
The vast majority of LFC fans – even those who have their doubts about Rafa and some of his ways – know that it would be an absolute disaster if Rafa walked or was pushed now.

They also know he is expected to compete at the very highest level while being outspent and with less resources than the likes of Appy Arry and Fat Head Bruce.

They also understand the terrible situation at the club with the awful owners and the woeful conditions Rafa has to not only work under but is expected to work miracles under.

And they know the pressure the man is under from our charming media.

And they also know that in a time like this it’s support that’s called for not backstabbing.

And they are the only people that really count.

yes the club was build on the fan base. iam not born liverpool but i was bred into a fan and its the real fans who gave the club it reputation why do you think the player love to play for us whether thay are good or not so good, many of them still come to the and respect it. except a few of them yes thereal fans are some thing else

Fat Scouser, I think a true supporter will stick to the club in a time of crisis because only the true colours of a person will show when he/she faces a crisis.

Personally, as a supporter, I don’t have the right to say sack Rafa because I do not own a stake in the club. If Liverpool is owned by fans or is a publicly traded company then I think Rafa will be sacked. But the funny thing is, if Liverpool is owned by fans it would not be in this distasterous state in the fisrt place. Doing all the hard work just to pay the interests? You got to be kidding me. By the time we finished paying our debts I bet we would be a mid-table team.

Nice post that, FS. #264

Steve mate, it would be nice if we could just remember them things and not go through this shit storm every time there’s a bad result.

It’s a shame because there are loads of things wrong at the club that should be talked about. But this continual kneejerk to every bad result means they aren’t discusses. It just goes to the inevitable we are shit, that’s Rafa’s fault, Rafa out. And then days of trying to prove, and teach people, how ridiculous that childishly tantrum like opinions are.

In fact, Burger Man even made a few viable points. I suppose if you look through enough shite you’ll always find a bit of brass. But he did make a couple of points that should have been given more recognition…
One, a point myself and a couple of other people made after the first few games – our pre-season performances. Even then you could see something wasn’t right. We all ignored it and excused it, saying it was just fine tuning. That was right the conclusion at the time. But after a few games, you could see that it hadn’t been put straight and there was worrying things happening on the field.

But then all the injuries kicked in and that was that. I don’t know how Rafa and the coaching staff were supposed to put it right when they didn’t have the personel there to put it right.

These injuries and illnesses aren’t something that’s just happened in the last few days. We haven’t had a settled defence since day one, and we know, and the facts/stats prove, we have one of the, if not the, best defence in the league. But after a run like that confidence is bound to take a bashing and the results can be seen especially in some of Carra’s performances.

But to kneejerkily start saying the defence is shit and it’s Rafa’s fault is just plain ridiculous. God only knows how bad it could have got if it wasn’t for Rafa. Why do people just scream how bad the Kyriagos is, instead of understanding the owner’s won’t/can’t give him the money for the likes of Turner, and thanking fuck that Rafa has the bollacks and the foresight to fight them to get at least 1.5 mill off them and get in an experienced international defender?

Okay. I know the lad is no Beckenbauer, but he’s not the shit on a stick these idiots make out. And things would have been far worse had Rafa not found and got him.

BM’s other point is valid, even though it’s not made from the right motives…
The only other manager I can see who could possibly do as good a job as Rafa in the conditions he is working under is Wenger.

I have nothing but admiration for the man. And he is a fantastic manager. But let’s face it, he’s hardly available and he wouldn’t come if he was.

So even that is a none point. But I do agree. Wenger would be the only manager I could see being able to handle what is happening at LFC. Don’t take that wrong though… I don’t think he’d do any better. I just think he could put up with the pressure, both in and outside the club, and still do a good job.

Oh well, as I say… dig through enough shite you find the odd gem.

Off out now. Later folks.

The way football is right now, the manager could be Rafa, Wenger, Lippi, Capello, Hiddink, Mancini, Mourinho, Ferguson, Ancelotti…. whoever. The situation right now is…. No money. No honey.

Don’t disagree with that LB… just making a point about who could do the job under such circumstances. Out of your list above, I think there’s only 2 who could and only 1 who would.

But it’s academic really. only 1 is and he should be getting our full support especially at a time like this.

After last year, are some of our fans expectations to high as things are with in the club.

We have always given out managers support, but i dont know with the new breed of fan that now watches thw game, is it because we now live in a soceity that expect instant sucess.

Sucess can be achieved with a less talented squad (although i think we have some great players and some still awiating in the wings) as long as they are together fight for each other, and are unselfish, but are the new fans willing to wait and be paient. if so we will be ok. maybe not number 1 put we have no god given right to be top of the pile.

Things have a habit of what goes around comes around.Our time will come again, HAVE FAITH.

Just remember the words of our anthem.and we will be ok

we have been in storms before.
walk on

FS, I agree with you.

Some cracking comments in here lads last couple of days.Keep it up.

I too have stayed well clear of all sports media in last couple of days.

Still can`t avoid it totally when guys at work come in and spout the shite the media are saying.

I sat in the canteen when i went into work last wednesday and one guy had the neck to ask me..”do you agree with what Whealan said?”.I nearly choked on my scone there and then before giving him a look like i was about to rip his head off.I couldn`t believe it.This man normally seems to know his football and played at a high level in his day so i was shocked by what he asked.

I don`t need to tell you my response but needless to say..super player..shithouse excuse for a pundit.

It just goes to show the power of the media.Most with a brain in general can have their own opinion on what they see but the majority,sadly are just parrots.

LB i must get that soccernomics book,did you finish Paul mc Grath`s one?

We can but hope…
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2009/11/07/liverpool-fc-boss-rafa-benitez-makes-international-friendlies-plea-over-fernando-torres-and-steven-gerrard-100252-25114562/

Haven’t been able to keep track of things for the the last week or so since I have been working my bolloxs off. In fact the only 2 minutes of footie that I have seen this week was when I managed to get a stream for the end of the Lyon game and see them get the equaliser. Too sick after that to even bother following-up further.

Right now I am stuck in San Fran airport watching the Arse match (modern technology eh) and in the time that I have written this Wolves have conceded two unlucky OGs whilst being on top. I still think that we just need a break and a few players back and we will be alright.

A nice draw between the mancs and the chavs would be welcome as well.

As TT says, good discussion in the 2nd half of the blog and let’s hope it stays like this and the kopblog collective refuse to get drawn in the useless, repetitive, and mind-numbingly boring debate about should Rafa go. If people can’t see the bigger picture after all this time, then there is no point going further.

BTW, the ‘I’ve been a supporter since ’04′ line nearly had me pissing myself.

The arse has just scored again, so I think that I will leave it there.

Almost forgot, congrats fatty on the new addition to the family.

04… I’ve got skiddies older than that.

And thanks Lurgie mate. He’s a little belter.

Seen Burgerman when i was in town yesterday..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtQzH-k-XnA&feature=PlayList&p=1E55E6F58C46EFDD&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=11

timmy, Is it just me or does that bloke look like a Baby Ork?

And jim, it isn’t really about last season. As LFC fans we always have and always will (or should) have high expectations.
Its how you meet reality with those expectations that divides the men from the boys.

Particularly when reality can always be counted on, to pop up like a Monty Python sketch and slap you in the face with a wet fish.

And he`s a red to boot Aitch!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXMT_oopxxs&feature=related

I think the expectation levels have always been there.They`ve just been raised by coming so close last year.It was the closest we`ve ever come to winning the premier league.So people obviously expected the club to push on from there.I suppose we shouldn`t be surprised that the borrowers have not backed Rafa properly to take us to the next step.
Any half decent chairman/owner would see how close we were/are.
I`m not saying Rafa should have been given a £60 million warchest just £20 million plus what he`d brought in from sales which was around 55 million approx.Then Rafa could have signed back up for the positions that needed it.

Now the team has a mountain to climb in the CL and elimination could mean serious financial implications.

You reap what you so Dickheads!

We are a bit unlucky with the fixture list too. Everytime after Europe we are sure to have difficult matches.

Imoprtant to win against Birmingham. International break will be good. Straight after that we have ManCiteh,Debrecen,Everton. Again a big week.

To be honest, I’m not entirely sure that money would have made that big a difference to our fortunes. (which is not to be read as in any way taking responsibility off the owners for not backing the team.)

But no one could have predicted the string of events since the start of the season…
Carra and Skrtel crocking each other 10 minutes into the first game…
… those two injuries subsequently contributing to a string of patchy performances…
Made all the more impactful by Agger’s injury persisting…
Torres getting elbowed in the face, then having lumps kicked out of him, before getting injured…
SG having an indifferent first half-dozen games, then getting injured…
Masch having half a dozen indifferent games…
Kelly getting injured…
Ngog getting injured…
Riera getting injured…
Aurelio getting injured… (…er … nevermind, that one was, in fact, totally predictable )…
Beachballs not getting a deserved booking…
And that’s not even a complete list…

… there was just simply no way to predict all of that…

Knight,would it be possible for us to organise a campaign here in Malaysia to stop the Star paper from publishing the pick up from The Sun? I for one will stop buying the Star from today onwards as I really p*%%#d off with what was published yesterday!!!!!!

Hi Anaconda. An LFC fan Ratha had written to the Editor of The Star, obviously to no avail. He was furious that our fine win against the Mancs got barely two paragraphs of mention whereas all the problems are blown out of proportion on th back page and in full colour. And being a Manc supporter, he knows we hate The S*n and so culls his articles from there.
Not sure what else we can do, really.

HA! The Virus is alive and well and working in Malasyia. It would almost be funny if it wasn’t so bloody bad of them. Aitch, you are correct Sir, but….
20 odd million, plus sales, plus the Keane money is what the fat fella should have got. I can’t say it would have made the difference, but we know we would have had Turner instead of Kyriagos. After that it’s conjecture, but I think it’s fair to say, we would have had two decent players in important postions an all.

But it’s all conjecture, and Rafa hasn’t moaned. So I’m not going to on his behalf. We just have to get on with it and see where we are at the end.

Hopefully, yankless

Even the comments in the Echo are starting to annoy me, from the fans that is. It just goes to show how stupid some people really are when they take nothing into consideration and ignore reality.

Good news on the injury front, it seems quite a few lads are nearly there which will be a big boost. The squad seems to be very together which is a good sign. I also don’t think a top 4 finish is in question at this stage we are far to good a squad to not make it. I still think we can make a decent challenge for the Prem.

Interesting article on the 250 mill 50% cost of the new stadium for naming rights. This is based on the Mets deal for 20 mill per year over 20 years and the Global brand that Liverpool is as apposed to the Mets only being an American brand.

If nothing else the Twats are showing what complete and utter twats Parry and Moors have been. We should have capitalised on this 15 years ago if not more. We could have had a new stadium without the need to sell out.

I had to laugh at the normalcy of the comment from one of the chuckle brothers, funny as fuck and as real as Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz. 04 in deed.

Aitch, more money would have meant Turner instead of Kygriakos, a proper replacement for Robbie Keane so that we wouldn’t have Voronin missing sitters and playing generally shite in important games. Also would have meant decent cover for Glen Johnson without having to rely on Degen. If we bought Barry (Rafa’s first target) we wouldn’t be relying on Lucas to run games for us from midfield every week. And if we bought Silva in the summer or another of Rafa’s targets for a winger we wouldn’t be worrying too much about Riera’s injury…..

As FS said a lot of that is conjecture but there is no doubt we’d be in a lot better shape dealing with these injuries if we had the dough we should have.

A lot of the injured players are back in training. If we can scrape 3 points against Birmingham and keep the unfit players away from their national squads we can get a lot healthier for games after the international break.

Hoping for a draw or manc win today. Don’t want the chavs running away with it.

The injury update:

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N166380091107-1423.htm

You lads who know football will know this, but…
Once Sammi left, we didn’t have a centre back who could win things in the air, at the back or upfront. Rafa trys to sort that out by bidding for the likes of Turner. But even yard dogs costs millions if they are home bred nowadays. So Rafa fights like fuck to get 1.5 an spends it on a yard dog… but an experienced international yard dog that can head a ball.

There’s no point in me saying all this though because the ignorant will ignore it anyway and the rest already know.

Mental situation.

I’m still drunk from last night and rooting about the net with nothing better to do. Have a go of this…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pY6ybFJg0_U&NR=1

Great old stuff

The anti-Rafa brigade looks to be growing in number daily over here if we were to gauge it by the frequency of comments from ‘loyal’ anti-Rafa LFC fans (or rival fans having a laugh at our expense)in some Malaysian blogs.

But, like snipers, they give an unsubstantiated comment or two and then disappear, ignoring calls for a debate. And it sucks when they do that.

In the middle of a lot of crisis we all look
for that one particular thing which makes us to
believe in things again.

This week it came in the form of Xabi Alonso and what he had to say
when asked about the Liverpool Fc,Rafa and the team. Given the fact his
relationship with Rafa was not the closest in the last 12 months
he could have easily said something which the senseless english media fuelled into
yet another anti Rafa storm.

Instead his comments which were mature,sensible and most importantly his attitude
gave us a reflection of Xabi Alonso the impeccable person behing the midfield maestro
which he is.

What a player and what a person !

What result are we looking for Today’s game. I was thinking a 0-0 draw, with the mancs and chavs getting a few reds and kicking the shite out of each other

I suppose a draw today will probably be the result we all look for.Gives us a chance to claw back two points tomorrow night.Somehow i can`t see the mancs getting anything there though.

That said i think we must get our own house in order first.Get three points tomorrow night and in two weeks hopefully the injury`s wont be as bad and we can put a little run together.Then we can start talking of being in the race again.

Talk of the title shouldn`t start until after Xmas when the table starts to take its proper shape.When i see idiots in the media saying defeats after one or two games do damaga to a teams title credentials it boggles the mind.How can a defeat in the second or third game of a 38 game season damage a sides title chances when there is so much football to be played.I`m not just talking about LFC it can happen with any team who`s tipped to be in the race.

Even if the chavs win today,the media will think they`ll run away with it.Its just the way things are now with saturation coverage by the media their opinions change week by week.

A draw would be a very good result for us.However, look at the Arse now. They are scoring like nobody’s business and have been geeting results. Being second is an extra motivation for all those young guns. Then again, we need to get a win against Birmingham tomorrow.

Stay tuned for more Ref-Bashing by Mr. Fungusface as they have just lost to cheslea …..

So Chelsea won but why did ManUre end up with 11 on the field? Yet Liverpool only ended up with 9 at Fulham.
There is definitely inequality in the refereeing standards to-day – it makes my blood boil!!!

Didn`t get the draw we wanted,nevertheless it always puts a rye smile on my face to see that shower come up short.

As i said earlier its or own form and luck we need to turn around and when we do,hopefully sooner the better,we will go on a run and bring ourselves back into the hunt.I have no doubt about that.Weather we can sustain form for long enough to actually win it is another thing but at one stage or another we will be within touching distance.

I can`t predict at this stage who`s going to win it but at the moment the Chavs are setting the pace and look the team to beat.They seem to have it all going for them at the moment in contrast to our fortunes but it won`t last forever and we will be back.

LB & FS,
I completely accept your points and don’t necessarily disagree with anything you said.

But I do consider that when we bought Crouch, he didn’t score for half a season… When we bought Robbie Keane, he missed a hatload of sitters… we had Torres out for half a season last year.

I suppose if you are talking about 3 players of the calibre of Torres, (you know, truly world class… which is a phrase bandied about far too easily in my opinion,) then yes the likelihood is that would have made some difference… but…

…how much of a difference?
…would any “optional purchase” have caught swine flu?
…or injured their gonads tripping over their dog?
…or bumped into a doorpost and be in a coma for 6 months?
… coz in my oinion, that is seriously the kind of fuckin voodoo we’ve been facing since August 16th!

AND… I think we KNOW that the reality of any alternate purchases would have been in a “lower” mold than that “world class” type we need.

All I’m saying is I’m not convinced 2 or even 3 better purchases in the summer… given the run of bad luck and Murphy’s Law we’ve had… would have made a drastic difference to our current fortunes.

Of course, even a marginally better signing COULD have made a difference, but shit happens and this season, its mostly happening to us.
And I think if we could accept at least a little bit of that, maybe it would quell the fuckin hysteria some people seem bent on bandying about.

And look at the “good” purchases we did make… Johnson and Aquaman?

Johnson is exactly the sort of purchase we should be making. .. then he gets injured.
Aquaman too, but his rehab took longer than expected… then when he was ready, he cops the virus and is out for another couple of weeks.

FS you yourself made a point of the dignified way Rafa has handled all this… maybe we should be doing the same?
There’s what could happen, what should happen… then there’s the shit that has happened…
…imagine the crapload of excuses we’d be wading through in the media if Fungus had this many injuries and Owen and Valencia had gotten crocked/ill!

Aitch take your point about expectation yes we want to win every game but has you say the injuries is the real the shit thats happened to us. the press have a deffent agenda againgst LFC. and not just the club but the fans as well.

and i agree the media would be up fungus faces arse if he had suffuered what we have gone upto now.

notice today his players are just like him attck the ref in numbers what that about,it about time they grew some balls and set one or two of them off for their appauling behavier.

Regarding today’s game, am really surprised how fletcher got away wid his continuous bickering and slagging the ref ….

His behaviour was what we`ve come to expect from a manc player Dizzy.

He has improved considerably in the last year or two though.The reason i`m saying this that with hard work and dedication one can improve themselves if given a chance.I`m refering to the Lucas saga in our team.Two years back the general consensus was he was shit.He has improved greatly and there`s lots more room for improvment.Those who think he`ll never be good enough to do a job for us should look at Fletcher.He`ll never be world player of the year but he does the dirty work for them.I know most in here don`t slate Lucas as they are intelligent enough to see he`s improving.

Well timmy, i was one of those who weren’t too impressed by lucas but i have to admit he is the only player who has really improved since start of the season and to a such extent that he really bossed teh midfield against the manx… And speaking of which, after today’s chelsea game i was listening to jammie on sky sports and i almost smashed my tv wen he failed to give the due credit to liverpool against their match wid manx.. according to him, manx players just didnt show up… I mean WTF.. their players didnt perform cos we didnt let them perform…

Anyways, in my opinion, lucas has lot more to learn yet, but he has shown the determination and hardwork to win over a number of critics… i do believe that wen a person is instilled wid responsibility, he either succumbs or learn at a very fast pace… Lucas has proved himself to be in the later category..

Regarding manx players behaviour, maybe you are right… i shudnt be surprised by wat i saw today.. but for me, that was the exact sort of behaviour that got masch in trouble in not so distant past… oh forgot.. Masch is a liverpool player .. sorry .. my bad!

I think you missed the point Aitch… we were talking about what money Rafa should have recieved and what he would have probably done with it if he’d got what he rightfully should.

And yes. I’d go as far as to say, had he recieved the normal 20 plus budget, the Keane money and the money from sales, we would have been in far better shape.

Funny thing is… I don’t even think we are that badly off. In fact, I haven’t really said how I see things because everytime I come in here, I usually end up countering some tantrum or another.

That’s what the dummy spitting always leads to. But if you look at it properly… how far behind all the Rafa bashers favourite team, Arsenal?

And yet they are playing sublime sumptious football well, so the media would tell us everytime they string more than two passes together. And according to them we are complete shit on a stick.

In any other industry all our problems would be takein into consideration, but of course that would mean telling some truth and jibbing the sensationalist headlines. But anyway, he way I see it is, considering how bad things have been the damage isn’t that bad.

There’s plenty of time to make up the ground we’ve lost in the Prem and even if we go out the CL I don’t see that as some huge disaster…. It means we can concentrate on the league, and it might even help get shut of the other pair. Well, at least a bit faster anyway. And I don’t even mind being in the Europa. I’d certainly still go to as many games in it as I could.

I also think that very soon some team is going to get a terrible hiding off us, and I’m also expecting us to go on a great run of games and other teams to hit their slump.

A lot of people think it’s Chelsea’s now. I can’t understand that sort of thinking anyway. But besides that, why have people forgotten how shit they were up until a couple of weeks ago and how many games they have tweaked through with late late goals?

Short memories some footy fans, eh.

And look at that game yesterday. Man U, except for Rooney, were absolute shit. I don’t think they made one clear cut chance, but the Chavs could only beat them with one rather dodgy goal.

Add to that City’s result and the fact Arsenal needed two own goals to finally break down Wolves – who then had to go for it and so they left themselves open to the counter.

But I do fully expect Man U and Chelsea to go on a bit of a spending spree in January, and I know how hard it’s going to be this season. Still I see no reason whatsoever to count ourselves out of it. And as for tantrums, I’d like to think our fans would learn to reserve them for H&G.

In fact, that is the most upsetting thing of all… The depths our support has started to plummet since Istanbul, or was it even as far back as 04?

Funny thing is, if they just got a grip and kept a bit of faith they might actually get to enjoy this season and celebrate a bit at the end when we turn it around instead of looking foolish.

Oh well, I’m going on one again. So I’ll just say, I’m very optomistic for the rest of the season. I’m really looking forward to it. And I’m certainly not counting us out of anything just yet.

PS… if Rafa had known how all this was going to turn out, he’d have probably kept hold of Keane. But even with only Vroninn and NGog to fall back on, I still don’t think letting go of KEane was a bad thing.