Great blog Gerry
2-0 to the reds with kuyt scoring the first in the 67th minute and aquaman getting the second in the 89th

Gerry, ace blog as usual!
3-1 to us. Lucas to score first in 24th minute with Gerrard and Kuyt getting the 2nd & 3rd.

17th minute David Ngog.
But if I win, you can keep the Stevie G art for next Sunday’s Derby game….
I’ll take a rain check for when they do an Andy Voronin piece!

An interesting read as always Gerry.
This is the first time that I am posting any comments, however I am an avid reader of your blogs.
I agree with you in that the team is decimated by injuries and that this is most definitely affecting the shape and consistency of the team. However, I do think that Rafa is not being ambitious enough. He is still showing signs of wanting to “shackle” the team to a defensive formation. 15 minutes to go against Man City and not throwing caution to the wind reeks of a lack of ambition or a fear of what another defeat would mean. I compare this to last year against Manc City albeit against 10 men. Last year with the score at 2-1 to Man City and in their ground, he took of defenders to add wingers and we ended up with 7 offensive players. Being conservative is good in some cases, but we are now 13 points off the top. I would hate that in May next year we are looking at another 37 point gap with Chelsea, which is where this is going if someone does not pull their finger out.
Regardless, I will get up again in the middle of the night here in Singapore to watch them and cheer them on with all the hope that my heart can muster. And from the corner of my eye will check what those pesky Lyons players are up to, hoping that they shaft those lying, floor rolling – feign injury, sunglass wearing although there is no sun, vespa riding, pasta munchers.

24th, Gerrard.
Final scoreline: 3-0, with Ngog and Aquilani bagging the other two.

1-0

Gerrard in the 16th minute.

Ace blog as usual Gerry & very nice prizes as well.

Hi Gerry

Your blog and comments help to keep things in perspective when we are being panned by everyone and their dog. Thank you.

For Score
1. Final Score: 3-1 to Liverpool
2. First goal: 45th minute – Gerrad
3. Other goal scorers: Kuyt and Ngog

I will be up in the middle of night to follow the game.

Cheers

Great, great Blog Gerry but I will bet that it will be completely ignored by the Chuckle Brother Clan (CBC) because the expert commentators on Shite Sport spout a different story. I also see the CBC have a few new recruits to their cult as well.

I don’t think there will be a problem with us beating the Hungarians, so a good solid 3-0 win will be a good tonic and lift for the wekend, with Gerrard getting the first in the 18th minute to settle the nerves, Kuyt the second and Egg Nogg the third.

Final Score: Debrecen 0 Liverpool 3
First Scorer: Kuyt 8th minute
Gerrard & Ngog for the other two

In Mauritius, it starts at Midnight!!

Cheers

At least some of you get to see the game live…Here is Aussie it looks like we only get a replay midday (at least as far as I can tell)…which means I am going to have to try and ignore the result until I get home that night…

5-1.
Stevie 29th
Yossi, Kuyt, Ngog * 2

ryan babel should go. by talking to the sun, he has just lost whatever remaining support he has from those of us who still give him the benefit of the doubt, that he would come good. this guy has a fucken attitude problem. good riddance. plse close the door on the way out.

shakeel #9

in malaysia it starts at 3.40am! but we will be up for the game.

Hey Gerry

Brett here from good old South Africa. Love your post. I can’t agree with you more about those useless Americans, they are hiding behind Rafa allowing the blame to be put on him. We all need to keep the pressure on them to sell, it seems as though things have gone quiet around them, looks like they are hiding and enjoying the fact that no one is hassling them.

Anyways Enjoy the game.

Final score 2 – 1 to Liverpool
First goal will be scored in the 18th minute by Ngog.

Can’t wait for the Game

0-1 Gerrard to score a penalty in the second half. I foresee a tight game, based on our current injuries and form and a nail-biting finale.. Debrecen to miss a penalty?

Lyon will screw Fiorentina 1-0 as well….

1-0 to Liverpool, Gerrard in 55 minutes

Fantastic article Gerry. You should be writing in one of the big papers in England. You have more footballing brain in your little toe than that idiotic footballer called Rednap. Yes as I can recall, he was always napping in the sick bay. Talk about injuries, this shit was spending more time injured than he was on the field. He should be one who understands what injuries can do to any team. Yet he is calling the boss to be sacked. You should read his fcuking analysis on zonal marking. What a twerp when come to football analysis.

Liverpool to win 5-0, 1st Goal, Kuyt 7th minute.

My prediction will be a 2-0 win to the reds. Stevie in the 30th minute.

Anyone know any sources to stream the game?
If so, could you post instructions on how to access them (ie download this program and go here etc)

Thanks

21st minute for the first goal
3-0 in liverpool’s favour.
gerrard for a brace and benayoun for the leftover.

Let’s hope it doesen’t finish 0-0 or it’s the Europa Cup for us!

I’m going for 0-2 with our goals coming from Gerrard and Ngog. Here’s hoping.

Sorry, meant to add the first goal to come in the 68th minute.

Great blog Gerry and timely one too.
It is indeed sad that Rafa is being attcked on all sides, inlcuding LFC fans on this site. Very pleased to see that he reamins calm amidst the turmoil.

I am predicting a win, but saying what score as i wish to allow others to have the prize. Will sleep early, wake up at 3.40am to watch the game.

Great Blog Gerry,

Can’t seem to catch a break at the moment,

If any needs explaining on how we should have strengthened our squad over the summer look at Chelsea they had four first teamers out and still stroll to a 4-0 win – they can bring on youngsters like Kakuta (now I know what the fuss was about) when all we have is Voronin and our youngsters are not deemed good enough

garysmile,

I share your sentiments about Redknapp, the head of Spice Boys. It’s quite funny that our worst manager since 1990 and one of the most injured and under performing player are criticizing Rafa, when both of them can’t even manage proper teams. (Well, one of them thought his dad is better than Rafa)

For me, the player + manager above symbolize the dark ages of LFC, and it’s a shame they even have the cheek to criticize.

Let’s hope for some luck tonight…

Great to read your thoughts on the Liverpool situation as always, Gerry. Agree with pretty much all of it really.

Competition-wise, I’m going for this:
First goal: 19th minute
Final score: 4-1 to Liverpool
Goalscorers for Liverpool: Dirk Kuyt, Steven Gerrard, David N’gog and Yossi Benayoun.

An Linn. No need to state the bleeding obvious mate. We WOULD have strengthened had we had the money.

In addition, yes chelsea had 4 players out (we have had 7-10 out) and a few playing with injuries. Plus it was against Wolves.

First goal: 38th min – Gerrard

Result: 3-1 Liverool: other scorers Gerrard and Ngog

Great blog Gerry.

Debrecen 0 Liverpool 1

Bennayoun 67th minute

I’ve decided to go for 0-1 instead of my earlier prediction of 0-2.

Stevie G to save the day by scoring the solitary goal in the 81st minute. And then praying that Lyon have got something in Florence.

Nice blog Gerry. The only problem I have with it is that you felt that it was necessary to state the obvious to the most-knowledgeable ‘supporters’ in the world.

A good read nonetheless.

I will go for a 2-1 win tonight for Debrecen tonight with the first goal coming in the 20th minute.

My predictions have been crap all season, so I think that this is the best I can do for the match this evening and our CL future.

Akka – WOULD we have? – you seem to have found a new faith in our owners – put it this way they have said that our finances are in good shape how much do you reckon we are going to get to spend in Jan.

I was talking about first teamers not squad players in regards to the injuries

Wigan / Wolves whats the difference – both shite and begin with a W

Akka – in answer to your other question:

There is a good forum post on the main site about streaming:
http://www.thisisanfield.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13484

The one I use is myp2p.eu – not bad, not great either

You are having a laugh Lurgan, have your read the comments on the last blog by the CBC on this site, let alone the ones that phone in and comment on other blogs. Sadly some of our so called knowledgeable fans are as thick as two short planks and buy into the media hype that Rafa has spent over 240 million and has had enough time and resources to win the Prem by now. They do not want to believe or accept the actual fact of a 80mill odd net spend or 16 mill per season, they do not want to believe that having 10 senior players out injured at any given time disrupts a team. They want to believe in their own delusional and moronic agenda that all we need is for the Special Needs One to walk into Liverpool, spend the fictional 200 mill (where the fuck he will get it from beat me and they have yet to come up with that answer) as he did spend at Cheslea on a team that had just finished second and the League title will be ours. That is your most knowledgeable fans in the world, life time supporters since 2004, delusional delinquents since birth.

Hey Gerry,

Great blog as always. I agree, we have just been so unlucky with injuries it’s hard to judge the season so far. Sick of hearing so called supporters in the pub every weekend shouting for Rafa’s head as if he hasn’t a clue what he’s doin, I just laugh it off. I know it’s gonna come good, just have to play the waiting game for now!

Anyway 2-1 to the Pool tonight
Gerrard on 7 mins for the first
Ngog with the second on 55mins

I’m predicting an 0 – 3 win to Liverpool. Kuyt to score first in the 9th, the other two in the second half – courtesy of Gerrard and N’gog.

I’m positive we’ll get to face Fiorentina at Anfield in a winner takes all match!

YNWA

Aitch, great post towards the end of the last blog. As ever, spot on Keith. As for the get “Rafa out now club” and the “we should be doing better and be at the top of the pile club” .. HOW ? What’s your plan ? Who’s gonna do it ? What major manager is gonna come in and re-build (again) cos that’s what he’s gonna have to do and with next to / no money ?????. What team are you gonna put out that is gonna MAGICALLY transform themselves into a FIT and confident team ?

It doesn’t help when you have clowns like Ronnie Whelan throwing out figures and facts that he (or someone else) dreamed up the night before. I guess supporters like to have opinions made for them themselves. Nothing like being able to agree with whoever and whatever is flavour of the month eh.

As for tonight, my natural pessimism rises here. Debrechen were no pushover at Anfield and they have scored goals in practically all their games. With Londonbarnes in at centre-half for the injured Kyriakos and Digger at right full for the injured Glenda, Fatty in for an injured Mascher and Jack Hill up alongside Ngog-no-nose, (instead of the injured Gerrard). Vorornin in for the exhausted Kuyt and Sula, Burgerman together with TimmyTorres on the bench I’m predicting a 2-2 with Benny Onion on 35 mins before he goes off injured. London Barnes with a diving header on 79 mins to rescue a point.

Keith, I think that you’ve got the wrong end of the stick here mate. In fact, I agree with you 100%.

Having read my post again, I can see that it’s ambiguous.

What I was trying to point out is that it was a shame that Gerry felt that it was necessary to write a blog on this subject, when every supporter, cat, or dog, IMHO, should know this anyway.

Great blog as ever Gerry.

Nice to be posting for the first time!
Never really wanted to post all this while tough, as I was wanting to wait till May by the time WE will be celebrating OUR LEAGUE CONQUEST.

Nevertheless, because of the nature of today’s game, I just came in here to say this one thing very loud & clear;
DON’T FORGET CL_04/05!

Being a Red demands nothing else but Belief.
So lets BELIEVE & SUPPORT.
YNWA

Agree Lurgan it is a bloody crying same that blogs like this have to be written because of our so called fans. Sorry read it wrong

2-0 liverpool win with benayoun scoring in the 23rd min and gerrard on the 67th min

Just wanna say this; injury/form or not, WE’r LFC and nothing is gonna change that_ the way WE make possible what seem impossible.
Am so confident that WE’r gonna be seeing ‘mad’ Red men tonight full of drive, enthusiasm, passion and BRAVERY!
Can’t just wait for kickoff at the moment, Am really caught up in this BRAVERY!!
FORTUNE FAVOURS THE BRAVE!!!
YNWA

Dougle, I reckon I can head towards goal better than Lucas. His forehead must be made of foam.

Decrechen were no pushovers at Anfield because we were poor. Fiorentina and Lyon have given them sound beatings. Fiorentina 5-2 and 4-3. Lyon 4-0. If we don’t win tonight we really don’t deserve to go through to the knockout round.

And the score tonight, LB?

This great post by Aitch came at the end of the last blog, but it was too good to miss so I’ve stuck it in here as well.

Arthur, my answer to your question (#233) would be:

No! I’d stick with Rafa… not coz he’s a genius… not coz he is somehow irreplaceable… but simply because this season is a total anomoly.

It’s a UFO.

Hell… fuck that… its a Close Encounter… of the FOURTH Kind.

We’ve been colectively abducted and had cattle prods rammed up our jackseys for some sort of strange and unknown extra-terrestrial research purpose.

I like Guus Hiddink. Of all the names bandied about, he’s the ONLY one I’d go for.
Should Jose EVER be appointed LFC manager, then I’m done with them.
If you came home and found your wife getting gang-rogered by a local works crew… and screaming like it wasn’t enough, it would be a violation of everything your marraige stood for. The same would be true if JoMo EVER got the LFC job.

Now is not the time for a change at the helm. And even if your scenario transpired, that alone GIVEN THE CIRCUMSTANCES, would not warrant a change at the helm.

But I have another question for you all.
Have you ever played injured?
Not for one game, mind you, but for a string of them, for half a season?

I have… which is why I say, if you had… you wouldn’t be expecting amazing performances from SG, Torres, Benny, Riera, Agger, Aquaman, El Zhar, Aurelio.

And I have another question for you.
Have any of you ever played on a good team that didn’t play well and got poor results for a long run?

Again, I have, and I can tell you with every bad result, with every poor performance, the anxiety level increases.
You concede a goal and the shoulders drop, the heads drop, you can almost hear the collective chorus of “oh, here we go again” muttered under the breath.
But even those who keep their heads start doing stupid stuff… potshots from 35 yards… impossible 40 yard passes when a simple 10/15 yarder to an open man is on… hoofing it upfield when there are players open to play it out.
You literally can’t help yourself.

We are in the quicksand right now lads
We won’t get out of it on Tuesday.
We won’t get out of it on Sunday.
We might not get out of it before Christmas.

We needed a result on Saturday and while LFC should never settle for a draw, like it or not, 2-2 was one given the circumstances.
We need a result Tuesday and a result on Sunday and if we were to get both as a result of massive strokes of luck (wicked deflections, dodgy pens, Ngog impersonating Thierry Henry,) rather than deserved effort, then mores the better at this point, coz that’s what’s needed!

But if any of that is a reason to “stop supporting” as one dickhead put it above, then by all means… you have our collective permission to bugger off, coz “when you walk through a storm” actually FUCKIN MEANS SOMETHING you pratts!

(This sermon has been brought to you by 35 years through the wind and the rain)

First goal on 17 minutes.
Final score 1-1 with Agger getting the Liverpool goal.

Strong looking backline there Dougle lol! And a bone crunching midfield!!

Super stuff there Gerry,

Lady luck will have to shine on us some time sooner or later.Hopefully it wil begin tonight.

With that said and with all our problems with injuries and constantly having a different back four we haven`t played that bad in most games.The failure to close out games when we take the lead seems to be a mental problem right now.

We,as supporters need to stay patient and back Rafa and the team until we come out of this “footall recession”.
I`m sure Fatty and the travelling KOP will be on form tonight as usual.

I think we can score some goals tonight so ill go with 4-1 to the reds with a 3rd minute goal from Stevie G.

Dougle how dare you put me on the bench with sula and GoogleWikiKOPmagman,i`ve never been so offended

Atich you go boy, great post I must have missed it with the new blog. The 2004 life time supporters don’t even know the words to YNWA. Thanks Gerry for posting it again, that brought a smile to my other wised worried face. I agree if you have never competed at a decent level, injured, or otherwise, on form or totally out of sorts, it is difficult, I suppose, to understand the thin line between success or failure. The odd thing is when you are in that position sometimes you can try too hard and really fuck it up. I look at this team, yes the same one that took on all comers at the end of last season, out scoring everyone and conceding very little, the same one that finished on a record points haul and within a stones throw of the title, yes people this is the same team and the same manager. As Atich’s says we need a result and then another, then this team will click into what most of us here know they can click into a really good unit. The fates have not been kind at the beginning of this season but believe me it will change do not loose the faith we are a good team with a world class manager and we will come good sooner rather than later.

LOL Excellent post Aitch!

“If you came home and found your wife getting gang-rogered by a local works crew… and screaming like it wasn’t enough, it would be a violation of everything your marraige stood for”….Classic!

68th min
Debrecen 0 Liverpool 2
Gerrard & Riera to score

Thank you, thank you, I’ll be here all week!

I have to laugh when I hear people suggesting the “injury crisis” is just an excuse and overhyped p.r., coz other teams have injuries too.

Seriously… stop for one minute, take your foot out of your mouth, and use one of the brain cells you usually reserve to type pornstars names into google, and think for a minute.

Game one of the season. Carra and Skrtel clash heads. They are down for 10 minutes while it gets sorted. But 20 minutes into our season, Rafa was reshuffling the pack and adjusting his tactics, not coz he wanted to but because his hand was forced by circumstance.

Skrtel is out for the next game and then plays his next 2 games with a broken jaw. (anyone ever played with one of these? It really is loads of fun, I highly recommend it.)
Carra, it was reported later, had a migraine headache for a couple of weeks. (anyone ever played with one of these? It really is loads of fun, I highly recommend it.)

Anyone remember Torres getting his face bashed in? He played several games looking like he’d gone 3 rounds with Mike Tyson for fucks sake, but the lad soldiered on and granted he’s Fernando Torres, so even though he was still a handful for defenders, he was playing half-fit. (anyone ever done that? It really is loads of fun, I highly recommend it.)

And the list grew and grew with every game.
Take a look at that injured list I typed again though…
…SG, Torres, Benny, Riera, Agger, Aquaman, El Zhar, Aurelio.
That was from Saturday.
Riera and El Zhar aren’t even in the fuckin squad for Debrecen tonight.

There are those that were screaming for Aquaman to be put on. Their claims are bolstered by the “fact” that he is apparently “fit and raring to go” (not sure where they get that info from, mind you) … perhaps coz he looked sound, doing his bit of a jog down the touchline during the game?

Look the lad has said he wants to play… but we’ve forced Torres back early twice now and lost him for multiple games each time.
Same for Danny Agger, though Saturday was more by chance than failed gamble.
But we did it with Aurelio and look what happened.
And Riera and look what happened.

SG cleared himself fit for the Lyon game and what happened? … Forced substitution after 5 minutes. Which left us with one less substitution later in the game, to address the fact that poor Insua was having a torrid time with their right winger’s pace as the game went on and they were exploiting that.

Someone mentioned above that we have had as many as 10 players injured at any given time this season… but the part that we don’t seem to include and others seem to want to discount is the other 4-5 players who are playing injured, half-fit or in their first game back from injury… like that doesn’t have an effect!

There is no other team in the league that has had to endure that. I have a hard time remembering one ever?

Take a look at the 18 man squad for today’s game and ask yourself, how many of them are really fit and up for this, and how many are there just to make up the numbers so we can name an 18 man squad and avoid being disqualified?

val, its just how I would feel if I came home and found my team being coached by Jose Maurinho.

Thanks for the high praise, but I’ll be crawling out of my own Arse now and just saying.

COME ON YOU REDS! …another Legendary European Night, please!

2-1. Gerrard in the 10th minute. Johnson coming up with a late goal to finish it up.

An Linn. I think you mis-understood my point.

I said “We WOULD have strenghtened HAD we had the Money”. Meaning – ‘Since we have wanker owners who pocket every spare cent we couldnt strengthen at all and had to keep players like Voronin on the books since any money from his sale would go back into their pockets’.

I think you just mis-read my point.

First off, an excellent blog by Gerry, and an equally excellent post by Aitch. Thanks guys. Guys like you make me proud to be a liverpool fan. It’s amazing how much bullshit is out there, and with fans like that Kanwar fella, who needs enemies? Anyway, there have been seasons where Liverpool have done a lot better but have left me more and more frustrated, but this has not been one of them. I mean, if we have both eyes open we can clearly see the problems the team has been facing and can accept that a team like ours, no matter the expectation, will suffer if we get injuries and now those injuries are biting us in the ass. Those useless jokers in charge do nothing to help yet Rafa gets all the blame. Lots of bullshit from lots of bullshit brained idiots.
I would like to mention that one person in particular has risen above the crap and has played well for us, and that person is Lucas. Of course others have played well too, but this guy got a lot of flack and I’m glad he is playing his part. If Masch does go in January, I’m fine knowing that Lucas is there to take his place and Stevie G and Aquadude will supply the magic in front of him. Hope to see Aquatic fanatic doing his bit sooner than later, but will trust Rafa’s timing and wait it out. Hell, we waited two months!! What’s another few weeks eh?
Prediction? Liverpool 5 – Debrecen 1.
First goal by Ngog in the 15th minute. Other goals by Johnson, Kuyt, Stevie and Ngog to get another.
Gotta love those prints Gerry!!

I`ll be channel hopping tonight.I`m confident we`ll have enough to beat Debrecen.

We need Lyon to do a favour for us obviously.

The team tonight is:

Reina

Johnson,carra,agger,insua

Masch,lucas

Kuyt,gerrard,Aurelio

N`gog.

I`m thinking Rafa see`s the above back four as his first choice defensive line.So i`d like to see them get a run of games under their belt together so we can get some sort of consistancy back.A settled back four goes a long way to making a settled team.

C`mon Bill and Bob,have a word with the big man above and set us up for one of those amazing Anfield European nights!

PS

Aitch,Kudos to the post in the last blog!

5-0 Gerrard to score first after 17 mins.

Good start.

But Fio just hit the post, had the rebound tipped round by the goalie’s fingertips, then a header from the corner off the post.
Come on Lyon WAKE THE FUCK UP!

aaah… we’re letting them back into this

And Fio have … a PEN???
Fio 1-0

Lyon are a disgrace. You’d think they would want to finish top.
Let’s hope they pull their fingers out.

Great to see ngog scoring again, this lads confidence must be growing exponentialy

Lyon are a disgrace? Mate they’ve qualified.

Ngog looks the most likely out there today. Has a classy look. I hope Benny comes on early in the 2nd half.

aagh, pissed to see Fiorentina 1 up against lyon,

come on lyon, beat fio and win the group

I`m only flicking over and back but i seen the pen incident.Cissoko gave away a needless pen very clumsy.
Lb,you`d think Lyon would try to salvage a draw even though they are qualified.It would cement top spot.They don`t owe us anything but its only half time and i hope they go out and have a go.

Yes LB that’s right. Considering they can wrap up TOP SPOT with a game in hand and realising if Fio win we will probably field a weaker side in the last game.

Fabio doesn’t look up for the 90 mins LB, I reckon it’ll be Benny for Fabio before too long.

And LB, part of me is very frustrated with lyon losing (for obvious reasons). So whilst they aren’t really a disgrace, u get my point I’m sure.
I reckon ur right aitch. Benny for fabio after around 65min.

I didn’t see the bench line up, who else is on there?

There goes foam forehead Lucas again.

When will Aquilani play some football?

Its wiedersehen Champions League time now.

Ah well, we haven’t won our UEFA Cup in a while.

I think in the next CL game we have to rest half the team. Cant afford anymore injuries, might aswell give a few youngsters a run.

Thursday night games against the likes of Politehnica Timisoara on channel 5.

Lads we did our bit tonght.We knew Lyon had to get a result.They didn`t.We`ve been through it a thousand times how we`ve got in this postition.We just have to motor on regardless.Players are starting to come back from injury now.So thats a plus.

First off congrats to Lyon and Fiorentina; the 2 best teams went through and as such I wish them all the best. No complaints. Stevie said after the game ‘you get what you deserve in football’ and quite simply our skipper is right. Our performances were not those of a team deserving to go through. Debrecen scored more goals than us in the group for Christs sake. I agree with Akka, rest all of our injury prone starters and give the kids a runout for our final game.

i wish we had a full squad to compete in our group stage games, but thats life. we must move on. we had quite a strong squad against fiorentina away, but got beaten cause of a very poor performance.

we did what we needed to do today, but unfortunately, didnt get a favor from lyon. it was a lot to expect anyway, they really have nothing to play for, and fiorentina were at home and had everything to play for.

hope it wont hurt our transfer budget much, but thats some serious wishful thinking…

Well i was as calm as I’ve been in years watching a Liverpool match tonight. I think deep down and considering the way things have been of late i wasn’t expecting us to get through.
So were out lets move on,try an pick up the pieces and hope for a good run in the league.

Firstly at least we won.they came very close to equalizing and that would have really pissed me off.

Secondly our players managed to get through a game without getting injured.

thirdly we’re gonna beat everton 3-0 on sunday.

heads up lads we live to fight another day

YNWA

A great Hope fell
You heard no noise
The Ruin was within…
Emily Dickinson

YNWA

Am i the only one who sees the irony.In the fact that the club was sold to the yanks because we needed owners who could provide more investment in the club.I have seen episodes of star trek the next generation that make more sense than this.

Despite all this bollocks i for one will be keeping the faith
Rafa benetiz YNWA

rafamuffin,

I second your sentiments. At least we got a clean sheet and a victory, something that had eluded us for a while.

This Europa Cup thing can mean that we can now better concentrate on the league, and with football, stranger things have happened.

I’m still hoping, for a fit squad to starting firing and maybe challenging this season

Can’t say I’m not disappointed, but I’m proud of the win. Hope we can build momentum from here on.

YNWA
Rafe is here to stay

Alright, here we go… we’ve had the first goal and scorer predictions; now get set for the Rafa must go tote.
Collymore tonight on Talkshite said if Liverpool lose he must fall on his sword…said there’s loads of managers who would want to be at a top club like Liverpool. I was so annoyed I actually emailed in to say:
Tactically naive. Poor decisions. Idiotic statements to the Press. Collymore needs to go now!
Who does he want ferchrissakes? Anyone? Fat Sam? Roy Hodgson? Emily Dickinson for manager?

Let the silly season begin (since the last time the silliness began!)

I think I’ll avoid the radio and papers for a while…
Still, well done lads in Hungary…can’t have been easy, and Debrecen weren’t crap.

Wonder when will Aquaman gets his chance? Thought that this game was a perfect time to feature him at least for 20 mins or so considering we’re controlling the game with more than 70% of possession at one point. Thoughts anyone??????

Gasp!! Surely you’re not questioning (whisper his name quietly)…..Rafa?….(shhhuuushh!!) Oh now you’ve done it Ykleong! Take cover!!

My prediction is 1 – 0 to Liverpool. Ngog in the 4th minute.

Jokes apart, anyone notice how the Rafa bashers and general shit stirrers in this blog did not take part in the competition? You would think that if you bled LFC or were emperor of the Kop, a poster of one of our greatest captains adorning your wall would be highly sort after. Maybe it’s just the conspiratory theorist in me. Keep up the good fight, Gerry. YNWA.

Haha… you have to laugh…
” there’s loads of managers who would want to be at a top club like Liverpool”
From Collymore… THE expert in “wanting to be at Liverpool”
….a player who DID get to come to Liverpool and play in a pretty decent side, but refused to MOVE to and live in Merseyside… and after one season, refused to show up for practise.

Do fuck off and grow up Stan.

Damn… I had Eggnogg on 17.

In the immortal words of Maxwell Smart: “missed it by that much”

Still time for them to design the print of Voronin, celebrating scoring a goal, Gerry.
(of course they’ll have to imagine what that would look like… badumpt-tish…)

Also, I love this criticism of Liverpool, that Debrecen outscroed them in the CL.

Ignoring the fact that they put all those goals past Fiorentina and Lyon and we kept 2 clean sheets against them.

Wouldn’t that indicate that Debrecen are in fact, actually a decent team and we did pretty well to keep two clean sheets against them?
Especially since our “zonal marking” defense is sooo bad according to… er… well all the pundits.
Or is that just inconvenient truth?

And another thing… did I mention that Stan Collymore is a dickhead?

And by the way… said Blog Hog… we can’t “play the kids” in the last CL game.

You can only play players who were registered for the competition…. most of whom are in the infirmary!

Hey… look at that.. 5 in a row… I’m the Defoe of the blog!

Aw shit…. this makes it 6… never mind…

On another note… at least we won’t have to deal with odds on Rafa being the first managerial casualty now that “Paul Hart and Portsmouth have parted company”.

…er…. hello… is this mike on?

Lol! You’re in fine fettle tonight Aitch! Well at least some of us are I guess… Anywho, I dident ignore any fact bud. I know who they scored their goals against. All I said was they scored more than us. But you spin it whatever way makes it more palatable for ya bud! No wonder you’re in such good form! Oh and our zonal defence IS really bad. Only Pompey have conceded more goals from set pieces than us. Well at least the havent sacked…oh wait….Aitch! AITCH! Where you at bud?! Need some spin here!!

Crashing out is a bitter pill to swallow but life goes on.

Now, am not being any sorta of snob but should we really be serious about the uefa cup? Do we have strength in depth to compete there as well as make up fer lost ground in the league?

The fixture list fer that is fooking ridiculous.

Digger you always provide some great comic relieve. It was good to laugh at you, oohh i mean with you…..

I must admit that I was not very confident that Lyon would do us a favour and they didn’t. Not too disappointed and pleased we got a moral boosting win. It should have been easier but a win at this stage will be good for the lads and let’s hope we can build on it and get a run going.

I think a run in the so called second division of Europe will do us some good and build up more momentum; we should stand a good chance to win it. It will also help us gain some form for an assault on the Prem, I still think second spot is well within our grasp and we will be there or there about if Chelsea do slip up.

I was also wondering why Rafa did not throw on Aquaman earlier, very strange as I thought it would have been an ideal opportunity for him to gain match fitness. That got me wondering if he is not quite as ready or strong as people are trying to make him out to be. Maybe FS can ask somebody on the inside as to what the score is concerning Aquaman. I really would like to see him play.

With all the possession we had is was blatantly apparent that we missed speed and width on the outside to break them down. Johnson was very quiet and it seemed to me not quite match fit. As Atich said our problem is not just the injured players but the half fit, half sharp players coming back in who are very much off the pace at this stage. However a win is a win and lets hope we can build on it.

You watch too much Fixed News, er I mean Fox News Digger, I’m not spinning anything.

You said Debrecen scored more goals than us. You’re right, they did (I’d suggest, who fuckin cares, or maybe so what, but instead, let’s look at what you were implying by what you “only said”)
They did score more goals than us… 5 goals… 3 against Fiorentina, 2 against Lyon and Zero against Us.
No spin… just facts mate.

They so absolutely shamed us in the scoring department that we only scored…. er… 4 … yes that’s right FOUR… they out-fuckin-scored us by ONE GOAL… and you make a fuckin criminal case out of it???
(now that is spin)

So Debrecen scored 1 more goal than us… while conceding 15 goals, to our 5. (none of which were to Debrecen) (but that’s an inconvenient fact that puts things in a slightly more palatable perspective.)

Our defense has conceded 20 goals in total. The Prem teams above us have conceded (in order) 8, 12, 15, 18, 12, and 16.
Poor comparison with three of them, I’ll grant you, but hardly at sea compared to the other 3.
Simple Fact.

Of those teams, we’ve had the least settled line-up to date. (spin? sure, if it pleases you, but also fact!)

Yet you compare our defense to Portsmouth, lying bottom and having conceded a total of 19 goals… only one more than us, yet 13 places below us.
(you’ll want desperately to say that is spin… but sorry it just isn’t… well alright maybe it is, but only coz you picked a weak team to support your flimsy argument… not sure what that is though actually.)

Ten teams have conceded fewer goals than us, yet we sit above four of them.
We’ve outscored all but one team below us and two above us.

but you know what, you suckered me into a daft argument…. so how about this…

“Our performances were not those of a team deserving to go through. Debrecen scored more goals than us in the group for Christs sake.”
…er… so what was your point again?

That Debrecen DID deserve to go through?
Coz in case you didn’t notice, while tallying up the number of goals they scored, they only got… er… Zero points.

Was it that 5 goals made them a better team? Coz you know we beat them twice right? Holding a clean sheet both times. (fact – no spin)

Or was it that you wouldn’t have minded us crashing out, as long as we’d scored 6 goals, so Debrecen would have scored 1 less?

Keep going, Aitch, keep going…. !

The Word According to Atich, where do I sign on, I like this religion. Unfortunately you are preaching to the deaf and the uninformed that have a different agenda and concept when it comes to the classification of what is termed a supporter. Facts always stand in the way of people who have ulterior motives and different agendas. That we have been decimated by injuries, playing unsettled and different combinations every other game, playing with half fit and recovering players is conveniently tossed aside, fuck it Rafa’s fault its much easier to blame him then actually to think and analyse the situation.

I’m still keeping faith with Rafa – at least until we get close to something resembling our proper first XI. But I think we need to remember that even when (on the rare occasions) we had the likes of Torres, Gerrard and Johnson fit – we were still losing games this season – Spurs, Villa, Fiorentina and Chelsea. So I think it’s too simplistic to say that injuries are the sole reason for our current predicament.

Although it was good to finally win last night – we were far from convincing in the last 30 mins and Debrecen could well have gained an (in)famous point. Couldn’t understand taking off Ngog – lad was lively, sharp and was up for it. Unless injured – subbing him and pushing Kuyt up front made no sense whatsoever. Aqulani for 90 secs was also fairly pointless

Yes Rafa has had injury worries this year and he didn’t get the financial backing in the summer, but he has had 5 years now- and in that time he should have a squad built up over those seasons to be able to deal with our current problems and be able to qualify for 2nd stage of CL and at least finish in the top 4.

I do think that winning the league was always going to be a huge ask – especially because Chelsea are much stronger than last season under Big Phil and there has been some serious investment from the likes of City and Spurs

There is a long way to go and if we improve in the league and gain that elusive top 4 spot I’ll be satisfied enough. Anything less then that is massive under achievement and if a more suitable candidate was available I think we would seriously have to consider a change

As I have said before I do not buy the whole “we lose Rafa – we lose everything argument” Chelsea did really well when bringing in Hiddink and have continued that with Ancellotti. Change can work!

Yes they have a big squad, packed with talent – but neither Hiddink nor Ancelloti spent big when they arrived – they just used what what the already had – just better than Big Phil. Although it’s too early to say this season, but we can’t be 100% sure that Rafa is able to get the best out of this team/squad anymore

The adversarial posts are becoming tedious.

Watching the game last night I thought we lacked pace and penetration in the middle of the park. You can tell Gerrard is off the pace and thus didn’t really provide any thrust going forward. Our left flank looked incredibly slow with Aurellio and Insua. Kuyt looks to be struggling. We have 2 central midfield players who very seldom play forward passes.

Just to go into a little detail I’d like to talk about Insua. To me it seems he is less mobile and slower than he was last season. What do you guys think? I thought he’d put on weight but FS pointed out that he has bulked up in the gym. I don’t think the added bulk has helped him at all. He doesn’t seem a good athlete at the moment and looks to be in trouble when a nimble quick winger is up against him. He also looks to be labouring when he tries to get forward. I’d like to know everyones thoughts on that? I really hope people do not take this as me having a go at the young lad and looking for a scapegoat. What I’m doing is analysing areas of concern and airing that opinion.

Most of us are in agreement that attacking fullbacks are key to the system Rafa wants us to play. If this is the case I think we need a left back. We have 3 at the club who are all quite slow. I know the club is skint but still that is an observation of mine.

I’m not sure what is happening with Kuyt. I found myself getting frustrated with him as I did the season before last. Moves seem to lose momentum when he gets the ball in space. There were a few occasions last night when we were on the break or in a promising situation. The ball would be played to Kuyt and from there it fell down. We could do with some class on the right flank. Last season Kuyt provided that. So far this season he isn’t. Thoughts?

Our central midfield lacks penetration and it shows up big time now that we have no Alonso and Gerrard is either unavailable or half fit. Lucas and Masch just do not play enough forward passes that cause defences trouble. They both play 5-10 yard passes sideways or backwards which gives the other team the chance to get their shape. In this regard they are too similar to be an effective pairing (especially with no Gerrard or Gerrard not at his best). Masch will win tackles and 50-50 challenges. However Lucas tends to give away free kicks. He reminds me of Gilberto Silva. Brazil are producing a lot of midfield players like this these days. Players who just keep the ball ticking over with 5-10 yard passes who can defend by intercepting passes and covering space in front of the back 4. For me Lucas doesn’t do enough in our midfield when paired with Masch. His style of play would be better suited paired with Gerrard or Aquilani and even then he’d need to improve his tackling. Some people have said he is more of a box to box player but then his shooting ability and attacking instincts in the penalty area doesn’t really support this. Once again this is not an attack on the player. It’s an observation of the style of player he is and what he brings to the team. Thoughts?

I am hoping Agger and Carra can play together in a lot of games in a row now. Johnson needs to stay fit and Insua needs to leave the weights alone and lose a few pounds. We need Benny, Aquilani and Gerrard match fit. Torres should be back in a week or so and then it’ll take another couple of weeks for him to get his sharpness back. In the meantime I think Ngog is doing really well. Rafa needs to find a way to get Kuyt playing like he did last season. I don’t know if he needs a rest (impossible with all our injuries I know) or what.

Some good football debate rather than the constant bickering would be great!

@ykleong
@Diggerno
@Arthur

Rafa is keeping Aquilani for the Italian national team,where he will get injured again when on international duty,didnt u see Agger was never in the team until he played a full 180 mins for Denmark? Rafa is too cautious and stubborn sometimes! But just like LB,i lowered my expectations and to me a win for LFC comes as a suprise these days!

Arthur I think you make some good points there. However I do not think the club is in a position to attract a better manager than Rafa at the moment. This is key to the “we lose Rafa, we lose everything” argument. Would the club be able to bring in a better manager?

First think about the pay-off to Rafa. Probably in the region of £20m.
Then think about the compensation to the club or FA that we’d have to pay to bring in Rafa’s replacement.
Then think about whether a top manager would want to work under the circumstances Rafa finds himself in.

So do you think it realistic the club could sack Rafa and bring in a better replacement?

I tell you what though. Should we get all or most of our players fit in the next few weeks and we continue to struggle, win nothing and finish say 6th in the league then some serious questions will be asked. I think the fans would turn on Rafa and he’d end up walking. There are 6 months to go though so no judgments can be made yet in my opinion.

72 teams compete in the CL.Seeing as UEFA don’t rate the Europa Cup winners a plAce in the qualifying stage of the Cl, we should treat it with the same contempt as UEFA show it!.The defending @ the end was shocking.Aqiliani will need to score as many as Dan Murphy or Overmars to make his purchase a worthwhile gamble.Still no goal from Kuyt.Why play 2 holding midfielders V the weakest team in CL?.A repeat of 2002-2003 season?.

I agree with you there LB – I would only consider a move for a new manager if:

a) we do not finish in Top 4

and b) a top quality replacement is available and willling to work under the opporesive Yankee regime.

LB – at last a football discussion – would agree with you though on most points so cant really argue however

I thought we had no attacking options last night -controlled the game but it ended up that Debrecen had more clear cut chances than we did

There was no fire or zip to our play – simple passing moves looked laboured

Every time we looked like breaking through the ball would be slowed up by Kuyt or Lucas

I hate to say it but without Torres we have very little attacking options – even with Gerrard, Aquilani and Benny fully fit without Torres who are they going to thread balls through to ? Ngog’s looks alright but hes not up to leading the front line

I thought NGog lead the line very well – he’s still quite raw but I defintely think he has potential. As I mentioned earlier – cannot for the life of me understand why Rafa took him off. Once that occured nothing stuck up front anymore and our defence came under increased pressure.

Burgerman: it’s looking worryingly like a repeat of 2002-2003 but still a long way to go in the league. If we can get our key/star players fit (and keep them fit) I still think we have the meaure of Spurs and City for 4th spot

Ok Aitch, my bad. You’re right and me and Stevie are wrong. We did deserve to go through. Sorry bout that. And Aitch my point on zonal marking was on set pieces but if you think we’re good at defending set pieces well then…..well good for you bud, good for you. Not gonna bicker with you mate, LB’s right; it aint worth it. Its not gonna change your mind and it aint gonna change mine.

arthur, just wanted to respond to one thing you said.

you said that rafa at this point should have built a squad capable of qualifying for knockout stages and the top four. true to an extent, but keep in mind that the squad problem is the biggest we have. rafa has had to sell to buy, its very hard to build a deep squad with that kind of situation. not to mention, its very hard to keep a decent squad with a wage bill like we have…players do not want to sit on the bench and collect the paycheck, they want more…you dont hear crouch complaining about sitting on the bench at tottenham do you?

the other thing is that rafa took this side from relative obscurity in the champions league to consistent top performers. two finals, semi finals…consistently. now that is a top achievement considering where we were coming from with houllier. i have several friends that live in other parts of europe and they all know the history of liverpool, but believe that rafa turned us from an average european team in the last decade to a powerhouse.

dropping out at this stage is a disappointment, yes. we are all disappointed. but it happens. we must move on. there is a long way to go this year. if we can get some consistent wins (like in the beginning of the year) we will be back in business.

YNWA

its only been 3 years since united failed to qualify for the knockout stages and the uefa cup… this was in a group with villareal, lille, and benfica. yes, lille finished above them. no one seems to remember that though.

I agree Alec – getting knocked out of Europe is a huge disappointment but there are many reasons for that (injuries, form, bad luck etc) – and taken in isolation we shall move on.

I mean Man Utd in 2006/07 I think failed to reach the knockout stages – it happens.

What cannot be forgiven however is finishing 5th,6th or anywhere else. And in my opinion Rafa has had 5 years to create a squad that should have enough quality to ensure that.

My concern is that too many of the so called squad players that Rafa bought just aren’t good enough:

* Deggen
* Dosenna (for big money)
* Voronin (no comment)
* Lucas (big money, having a decent season just not a Liverpool player)
*Babel (big money lots of potential – either he’s not the right fit for LFC or Rafa is unable to
unlock the talent)
*Kyriagkos( yeah he wanted Turner but wasn’t given the cash – but why not play Ayala or Martin Kelly? Kyriakos is terrible and a major liability)

I’m not including all the other poor purchases (Gonzalez, Krompkamp, Nunez etc) that we were able to quickly off load. Those guys I mentioned above are still with us and REGULARLY play!!

Bellamy and Keane for all their pros and cons were offloaded too soon. I know the Crouch situation was different but again could he have been convinced to stay?

This is why we’re currently struggling. And this is why if we don’t get at least 4th I will be pointing an accusing finger at Rafa. The buck stops with the manager – this is the same at any club – who should ours be any different?

LB, nice to see some footy talk.

I have a feeling that Rafa took Ngog off because the lad has played a ton of games lately and doesnt want to burn him out ahead of a packed fixture.

As for Aqualani, my guess is we looked slugish and unsure and Rafa didnt want to bring him on and conceed (still a chance of Lyon Scoring).

As i said, they are my educated guesses.

@Arthur 111.

This debate does my head in at times. Sure Rafa has had 5 years and has spent 16mil net per year (as proven). With that sum per annum he has converted Houlliers team to his own. I think with the limited resources he has done a super job.

Furthermore, we have had 7-10 players out. As i posted in the last blog: Imagine arse losing Fabregas, RVP, Gallas, Sagna, Nasri etc (plus 3-4 squad players), Imagine united losing 5 first team players.

Thats why that debate does my head in. Its not like its SG and FT who are injured and we cant play without them (and some pundits still over look the fact that we have 7-10 players out and the only reason we are losing is we are a two man team).

Finally, Bellammy was sold to buy Torres from memory, so you can have a pick at which player youd rather have.

Keane couldnt hit the side of a barn.

Ohh, ill add Degen was free. Voronin would have been sold if we (and I mean the team and not the yanks) got the money.

I love how you say ‘Lucas is having a descent season’ and then say he isnt good enough. I think u have been watching too many Messi/Kaka videos.

Anyway, im off to the Pacific for a weeks break, so will miss the weekend EPL (unless i can sneak away from the misses and find somewhere which shows the game).

Surely our ’5 start” resort should have cable?

Akka – you didn’t address what I’m actually saying – the squad players we have at our disposal are just not good enough

The injuries is a whole seperate issue – as I have mentioned before we have lost games this season on occasions when we had our first XI out

We did not have 7-10 players out last night and we didn’t play very well. Yes our squad is better than it was during the Houllier era but that ain’t saying much.

Lucas IS having a decent season (better than last year) – but in my eyes he doesn’t have, and will never have, the sufficient quality to be a player in a top 4 EPL team.

Oh and I completely disagree with you about Keane – never given a proper chance in my eyes – 40 + international in his career? I don’t wanna go down the whole road of why he was signed and why he was sold – but I tell you one thing: we’d have been a lot better off if we had him as backup now!

Arthur – define ‘big money’.

When we put out a team against Spurs where their starting XI cost £35m more than ours is it realistic that we should finish higher?

Babel £11.5m
Dossena £7m
Lucas £6m

Spurs equivalent would be:

Bentley £15m
Bale £10m
Jenas £9m

Man City equivalent would be:

Kompany £6m
De Jong £16m
Bellamy £14m

Note I’ve listed squad players that probably won’t feature in each sides strongest XI. However these are the teams we’re battling for a top 4 place. I don’t agree that we should have a strong squad just because Rafa has been at the club 5 years. He’s had to sell to buy in every one of those seasons. Sell to buy strategy is not gonna get it done I’m afraid. He could be here 20 seasons – if 4 other teams are consistently spending more dough it will be a struggle to finish in the top 4. The same reason its been a struggle to finish in the top 2 when only 2 clubs were spending more. The longer we continue to spend a net of £0.00 in the transfer market and watch the likes of Man City and Spurs spend a net £40m+ the less likely we’ll be to get into the top 4.

Its not about length of time it’s about length of time + adequate resources to meet the objectives. Harry Redknapp and Mark Hughes will be given the resources required to get into the top four. Those 2 clubs have a strategy to build their squad to achieve their objective. I think we’ll be able to fend them off this season. But if we continue to be massively outspent by them we’ll soon be finishing 6th on a regular basis.

Could we afford to keep Bellamy and sign Torres? I doubt it. Would he be happy sitting on the bench? I doubt it. I remember when there was speculation that Newcastle might sign Rooney from Everton. Bellamy who was a Newcastle player at the time said in a post match interview that he’ll have to consider his future. The £100k per week Man City wage keeps him happy at the moment and I believe he has matured a bit as well. Crouch was not going to stay at the club and play a bit part role. We made him a contract extension and he rejected it.

I mentioned it earlier LB that we lacked pace and width and Johnson was subdued or not fully fit. With Gerrard half fit it also limits our options to get forward quickly, hence it slowing down when we are trying to break. As good as Ngog is and has played, he does tend to loose the ball quite a lot when it is played to him in space. I think it is slightly unfair on Masch and Lucas, especially Lucas who can thread a pass, because he has not got Torres, Gerrard, Benny and Reira all running lines and creating space. One problem compounds another and so it goes, affecting the entire team. Alonso would have also struggled to make the killer pass with nobody to pass to. Kuyt for me is just knackered and it shows in his less than stellar displays. He has shouldered a liot of the burden, game wise, because of the injuries. Insua is a big worry for me, yes he is young but everytime we are attacked down that flank we look vulnerable. Yes I also think he has lost a yard of pace, but I say that with reservations because of all the disruptions, the chopping and changing of the back four and on the flanks, he has had Babel who does not track back, half fit Benny and Reira and Aurellio who is also half fit and slow so he has had to handle quite a lot for a youngster so I will cut him some slack and wait to see what happens when we have a fit side, but he is a worry, not to mention height wise from set pieces and crosses.

Arther you are way of the mark with your comments and I cannot be bothered to go over them because we have done so, so many times, but please tell me how we can have a strong and deep squad with a net spend of 80 mill and having to replace upwards of 20 players, 4 mill per player? I would love to see your squad. This also discounts all the young talent that has been brought in for the future so the net spend is probably closer to 3 mill per player I think Rafa has worked miracles. As for Lucas, a youngster still, would you rather have Fletcher, Carrick, Barry (Lucas played him of the park) Jenus, Anderson, Huddleston all who are older and have more experience except maybe Anderson. He does not get the credit he deserves at the stage in his career he is in.

As for Robbie Keane. I don’t think Rafa should have sold him unless he was confident he’d be able to use the funds to bring in a replacement. But then how can you be confident when dealing with Hicks and Gillett? Did Rafa have a player in mind when he sold Keane? Or did he just want rid of him? I know one thing. We got money for him and it did not go back into the transfer kitty.

Notice Everton are struggling to compete for a European place now? The likes of City, Villa, Spurs, Sunderland spending a lot more dough than them. Last 2 seasons Everton finished 5th. They finished 4th in 2005. They will be lucky to finish 10th this season. Should they sack Moyes for not taking the club forward? Or do most people think he needs money to compete? I think the latter.

stop being delusional!!!

this team is an embarrasment and nothing else.I’m actually surprised by how fans here are very content because we finally “won” .Is that the level we’ve come down to???

And stop blaming injuries.We couldn’t win when we had our players fit too.Some of rafas decisions simply cannot be justified.

And to be honest , if it wasnt for a piss poor finish at the end , this was 1-1 again.

smith if it wasn’t for beachballs it would have been Liverpool 1 sunderland 0 if it wasn’t for players being rushed back from injury because there’s no cover we’d have Stevie and nando firing on all cylinders, if it wasn’t for greedy fuck American owners rafa would not be having to sell players to buy players. Very harsh assessment there mate.
Remember the days when getting into the CL was a pipe dream,remember hoping the fa cup was our only chance of silverware. Us Liverpool fans have been very lucky of late. We’ve enjoyed success that most teams will never experience and certainly not in the same fashion even for the ones that do.
Things may be bleak at the minute but we do have enough quality in the team to go on a great run and win somethings as of yet.
Everything seems on a knife edge we can buck up and turn this around or do a leeds. however just because we know we wont win the CL it doesnt mean its the end of our season.

“We couldn’t win when we had our players fit too”

Oh good grief!
Stoke 4-0
Bolton 3-2
Burnley 4-0
Debrecen 1-0
West Ham 3-2
Leeds 1-0
Hull 6-1
Scum 2-0

Smith, not only CAN we win when all our players are fit… we can do so when a lot of them aren’t!

LB, my observation of the game was that SG was still laboring… he put in a far better performance than his last few, but it was still Stevie-lite.
Johnson too wasn’t anywhere near as mobile as we know he can be. He still did reasonably well, but we know he’s capable of much better perfromances.

I’d say he looked very heavy legged last night, and we could put that down to injury, but I think a few lads looked heavy legged last night and I’m wondering if it was a heavy pitch. Maybe they soaked it before hand? It definitely looked like it was tearing up quite easily? (if so I hope Rafa is ordering a couple of 50 gallon drums of that horse placenta stuff, coz it doesn’t bode well for Sunday)

Anyway, I thought Agger looked quite assured, which was nice to see given his head bandage.
Did you notice him complaining to the Ref at one point, on one of our corners, pointing to his head band and indicating that their defenders were clipping him about the head?
(These are the kind of things that need to be taken into account when discussing half-fit players)

Insua, has definitely needed a rest, but alas, we simply haven’t had the luxury of affording it for him.
I think people are being incredibly harsh on the lad though, and that he has carried himself well.
He was accused of being slow against Lyon, coz he got skinned a dozen times in the 2nd half by their winger… without any mention of the equal number of times he actually stood firm and robbed the ball off the same player… not just hoofed it out of play or upfield mind you, but turned with the ball and played it to a Red shirt, starting a move.
The lad lacks a bit of pace. He certainly doesn’t have the positional awareness of a Sami Hyppia, but in my opinion, if you list what he’s done right since forcing his way into the team, and what he’s done wrong. I think the scales tip in favor of good rather than bad. He got forward well and a lot last night, and covered a lot of ground, so yes, he got caught out a few times.

Aurelio looked well off the pace to me, but having said that, he certainly put himself about, at several points ending up at right back, in midfield and even center foreward at one point. (but we should understand that sort of mobility comes at a price to the left back?)

Kuyt just looks fuckin knackered and yes, I think he’d have been rested by now, but we just haven’t had the option. His touch has been getting progressively worse for weeks now… but he’s still the guiy causing throw-ins deep in “their half.”

There’s definitely an argument for saying we should have got men forward last night. Throughout the game I was pointing at “huge tracts of land” in the midfield, waving and screaming for either Masch or Lucas to run into it (and this is actually something that Masch has started to do a little bit in recent games.)

But the other side of the coin is that we were 1-0 up and already knew the score in Fiorentina, so could we really risk throwing caution to the wind?
I’m inclined to say a hard fought 1-0 win was exactly what we needed …since the result really didn’t matter…. And that save at the end from Pepe was exactly the “stroke of luck” we needed.

As a player that last minute save would have me thinking “hey maybe the tide has turned” or at the least “maybe we’ve stemmed the tide.”

Stay in or crash out, what we needed last night was a scrappy 1-0 win, and we got it.
Saving Ngog for Everton was a good idea… in my opinion, he was getting knocked about a bit… or would you rather us risk injury and start that game with Voronin.

I think the other subs were clearly an indication of a lack of fitness on the bench, and why risk them when the result didn’t matter. 1-0 or 5-0, we still went out… but 1-1 or another 1-2 really would have been a disaster.
They were made when they were made to chip some time off the clock.
When Slur Alex does that, he’s masterfully manipulating the clock, when Rafa does it nobody can understand it and it doesn’t make sense.

but we lost the ones that really counted cept ag mancs…..we’ve been poor!! just admit it , instead of filling up this page with your lame justifications !!

” Stay in or crash out, what we needed last night was a scrappy 1-0 win, and we got it. ”

talk about a statement exuding consent with mediocrity and complete denial!!

Keith SA: I’m way off the mark??? Would I take Fletcher, Carrick, Barry, Jenas, Anderson, Huddleston ahead of Lucas….ah apart from Anderson yes I would! None of the players you mentioned are world beaters but they’re much more effective than Lucas.

I don’t see why people on this forum who disagree with other people’s point of view have to get so worked up completely dismiss that person’s opinion as being utterly ridiculous. Some of us want Rafa out, some of us want him to stay regardless of what happens this season. Others, (like me) are unsure and are wiling to see how the rest of the season plays itself out.

Failure should not be treated with a shrug of the shoulders and excuses. In my view – and I’m sure others share the same opinion – this current squad (injuries and lack of finances and all that jazz) is well capable of finishing in the top 4. Wenger for all his ups and downs (and similar financial constraints as LFC in last previous seasons) has ALWAYS qualified for the Champions League. Liverpool cannot afford to not qualify for it.

Rafa got his new contract and more control but to borrow a quote from Spiderman (of all films) “with great power comes great responsibility!”

“but we lost the ones that really counted cept ag mancs”

Ya like the 3 points we got for all the other league wins don`t count at all.

You have now become a lifelong member of the CBC (Chuckle Brothers Clan).

LB,Some good points #101.Starting with the Kuyt situation.He does look quite knackered but i`d say he has more mental tiredness with Dirk.He has had little or no rest because of the injury list.Mental tiredness will effect your touch,awareness and confidence.You will tend to dwell on the ball instead of moving it quickly.You will tend to make the wrong off the ball movements and generally be less sure with your decisions on how you should pass the ball.Dirk probably needs a rest (if possible).

With Johnson and Gerrard its just the are short of match fitness.They both have had a stop start season so far.I don`t worry about them they will get their sharpness back with games.Same can be said for Aurellio and Benny.

Insua.The extra bulk has slowed him up a bit but we must remember the lad is in his first proper full season with the first team.He has a fairly heavy responsibility on his shoulders being the first choice left back.I know pressure comes with the job and all that but the above should be taken into consideration.

Pleased with Eggnog`s progression.The lad has a decent start to the season and can only continue to improve.Granted we all would like a proven premier league goalscorer as back up for Torres but (i know thats Rafa`s fault he never bothered to dip into his own bank account a take out 10 million and buy the striker himself.Shame on you Rafa!) we`ll just have to make do with what we have.

I was hoping to see Aquallini last night for longer than one minute.I must say it wouldn`t have been a risk to put him in there if Rafa was concerned about closing out the game.He seems a decent player and could be trusted to keep posession and IMO should have been given longer on the pitch.I think to get him match fit he needs minutes on the field and last nights game looked like a good opportunity to give him those minutes.

I`m confident when we get all our players back we`ll put a decent run together and finish well inside the top four.

I like most am happy with the gritty if laboured win against a struggling team. 1-0 is on the up from the recent draws. However looking at my own blog I realise just how far my seasons expectations have dropped. Just like Carra and Stevie, both made comments prior and after, appearing both to be in gloom and doom. This season has gone from bad to worse but is slowly showing signs of recovery. For all those financial types the first roots of recovery.
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If we’re having a bad season then so is Everton, it seems the gloom is on both colours this year. Lets move on to the derby with a further roots of recovery performance, onward and upward.
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Ps give the fucking Europa league a run for it’s money, it’s got to be better than the FA cup. (thats all that’s left).

How do people expect Liverpool to compete with teams spending more every transfer window? Yet we manage to not only compete but scare the shit out of other teams in the process. Spurs spends more every season, Man City are now spending more, Aston Villa are increasing their spending, Man U can easily throw 30 mill plus on guys like Berba (who I might add is not setting the world on fire) and nobody bats an eyelid. We all know how much Chelsea have spent. The exception is Arsenal and what have they won recently? If you ask me, Rafa has overachieved with Liverpool considering the crap support he gets from the owners. Of course many of his buys are going to be risky considering he has to first think about keeping the squad numbers large enough to compete on 4 fronts, which means he has to buy 3 – 4 players with the money he has got rather than the 1 or 2 great players he would prefer, and lets not forget that in order to buy those players he first has to sell other players, who he probably would not sell if he had available funds.
When you guys start talking abouut him having five years to build a squad, you should think a bit more before opening your mouths and spouting away.
When Rafa has spent big money, more often than not, they are excellent buys, i.e. Torres, Masch, Alonso, Johnson, (Keane is not included as nobody is sure if it was Rafa or Parry who wanted him, and we know Rafa’s first choice in that situation was Barry). A few might not have panned out like Babel and of course we are yet to see how Aquaman turns out. Bottom line is, that the rest of the players he bought for under 10mill were in fact gambles as he needed to fill the squad so he had to go for the 5-6 mill players. Some came good like Benayoun, Agger, Skrtel, Reina (REINA!!) and others and some didn’t. Look how many players Moronhio bought and now are playing elsewhere… same with Fergie, and Redknapp and on and on….
I’m not saying Rafa is god or anything…just saying that we need to keep some perspective on the bigger picture. The fact that our fans support him at the stadium also should tell us that they also see the bigger picture.
YNWA……

Just home. Will read the blog and comments later, but too knackered now. Good trip, great craic but Hungarians are miserable people. I kid you not, you must get jail over there for breaking into a smile.

smith, I’m not consenting to mediocrity.
(though i have endured it since 1989)
and I’m not the one in denial who thinks we have a god given right to win “the games that matter”, because that would actually be every fuckin game we play you pratt.

you said therte was no justification for Rafa’s decisions. Really?
Did that pitch not look ragged to you?
Did most of the players look like they had heavy legs on it?
So maybe just maybe, that wasn’t the best surface to introduce Aquaman on. That’s not an excuse that is an attempt to understand why, something you wanted didn’t happen.

I would have liked to see Dossena introduced for Aurelio on 65 minutes. I think the lad looked baked, but Rafa had more information at his disposal regarding both players and the conditions on the night, than I do, so instead of thinking he’s a knobhead, I’ll opt to think the man had his reasons… and they are probably pretty good ones, with the best intentions at heart.

Introducing Aquaman might well have given him 15 or 20 minutes of matchtime… then agaion, it might have seen him get twatted from behind in a tackle that put him out for the rest of the season.
Given that Fio were 1-0 up and Rafa knew that, and that Debrecen were really pressing… maybe staying solid at the back, getting a win under our belt, and not risking the one player too many fans seem to be pinning their hopes on was in fact a decision that made a LOT more sense than YOU!

The thing is… we’ll never know… but making blanket statements like “Some of rafas decisions simply cannot be justified” just makes you look foolish.
You may not like them, but they can be justified.

You like to make blanket statements like…
“And to be honest , if it wasnt for a piss poor finish at the end, this was 1-1 again”

The rest of us know better than to make blanket statements like…
If their keeper hadn’t saved Ngog’s curler we’d have won 2-0
or
If Stevie G had made even a whisker more contact with his left foot, we’d have won 3-0
or
If SG had hit that dink from Agger just a little lower, we’d have won 4-0.

Grow up.

HA HA Smithy got done.

Arthur, it is my opinion as most people like to say, that you are way of the mark. It fine for you to say that Lucas is shite and is not a Liverpool player and would not make it into another top 4 side, but if somebody disagrees with you and states it you get all uppity that anybody could have the audacity to take you up on your statement.

What happened in the Manc game with Carrick, Fletcher, Giggs and I think they brought on Scholes or Anderson etc, Lucas and Masch dominated them and outplayed them as they have done with most teams. It’s not the battle in the middle that we have lost, but the battle at the back leaking silly goals. We have managed to score in most games and have managed to control most games, even against Chelsea we did not struggle in the middle against a very experienced and quality midfield. With both Gerrard and Torres out injured for most of the time Masch and especially Lucas have done exceptionally well holding things together and controlling games. He is still a youngster and its people like you who do not give him the credit he deserves. So if you want to make statements like that be prepared to get criticism. As for Smith I think he has just elevated himself to chairman of the CBC, you are a complete and utter twat and need a reality check.

you’re asking me to grow up when you’re the one who’s idiotically endeavouring to somehow convince everyone else that even though our title hopes have already been shattered when it’s not even decemeber yet , that we’ve been thrown out of europe , we still are the best team and that the cause for all this lies not in our poor and gutless performances , but us being unlucky due to injuries , awkward schedules , refs , beach balls and what not!!

THAT to me sounds like you need yourself a character and it’s definintely YOU who needs to grow up and see the harsh reality , which is , that this team is just not good enough….i’m sure you even have an explanation regarding how we managed to draw at home to birmingham , the spuds ,villa at home..can’t wait to hear it

and you were quite quick to have a go at my hypothetical cases , so i suggest you go through your posts again because they’re ONLY that and nothing else.You’re far from reality as we have been from a convincing perfromance

Read the blog, will catch up with the comments later. I fell asleep on the bloody couch last night. So I’m still done in but I want to go and see what Babel’s been saying.

Just a quick comment on the blog though… I think most people are now resigned to this being a shite season. I had an arguement with one fella at the ground who was shouting abuse at/about Rafa. It nearly came to digs when I told him to pack it in. Funnily enough I had a pint with the same fella in the airport the next day. He was alright really but one of them people who have to kick off when their frustrated. I think it’s a fair indication of how fans are reacting now…
Majority silently suffering – minority screaming frustration.

I prefer to hold me nerve. But the fact is, even if you are in the Rafa out camp you really have no alternative while the Yanks still own us.

Rafa goes. They hire a Yes Sir, Mr Hicks/Gillette Man. We are screwed. End of.

Someone needs to tell me whether I have been watching the same games the others have been watching, because I disagree that our performances were ‘gutless’ as smith puts it.

Our performances have been poor many times so far this season but I dont understand, again, why they were not due to the injuries (spelled out like a zillion times already), awkward schedules (when the squad is so thin, it does take a toll on the players), refs (as if they have been friendly to us like they are with some other teams I dont need to mention), beach balls (one did score against us) and what not (what are these?).

I personally still believe that when we have all the injured players available to Rafa, which would not be that long in the future and if there is no other injuries (touch wood) and when all the players at last get back their confidence, and if we get to be back in the top 4 at the end of December, then we would still have a decent shot at the title. And with Aquailani almost fully fit to play now and maybe one or two additions to the squad during the January break (no harm in having hopes), we get to at last show the form we are capable of, displayed so effectively not too long ago. Until then, I will continue to cross my fingers.

Smith, how old are you?

Well said Khan couldn’t agree with you more, FS is not a matter of age but lack of IQ its so calculated to stir shit with so little based on reality he has another agenda or isn’t even a Liverpool supporter ignore the twat.

I’m not really interested Keith. But this is the sort of thing I only hear from very young people with no other point of reference than what the press tell them. And I don’t like saying that as I know plenty of good young reds who form their opinions with a bit of logic. But I have to say it’s usually young lads who come out with this sort of stuff.

Anyone over the age of thirty who has been following Liverpool for 20 odd years know full well that most things coming from the press and pundits is just mischevious/sansationalist nonsense. Souness made me laugh… “For Liverpool FC not to qualify to the knockout stages of the Champion’s League is unthinkable.”

I’m not going to bother pulling that apart. Anybody who supports LFC and was doing so before Istanbul – especially during the Souness years – should see the ridiculousness and irony of it.

Anyone who agrees with Souness should really have picked Chelsea back in 2005. And it would be nice if they just shut up and went and done it now.

We really don’t need nor want this sort of “Support,” especially at a time like this.

I play five-a-side on Wednesday nights, and as soon as he arrived last night a rather mouthy Chelsea supporting low life (are there any other type?) started giving it large to me over LFC’s CL exit, saying that he had only just stopped laughing his Bollocks off.

After I had informed him of my suprise that he indeed had any Bollocks to laugh off in the first place, I said he should come back and see me when Chelsea have managed to win even one European Cup/CL.

It goes to show how supporters of other clubs take great satisfaction at our adversity, but you know what? I’m pleased because I know they’re just enjoying this before we come back (probably next season) stronger than ever, and they know it.

I think as far as Rafa is concerned let’s all pray that we finish in the top four this season, because if not I think at least half of the Anfield regulars will be calling for his head.

It’s like FS say’s – they won’t look at the bigger picture, they will go along with what the media is now spinning. “Rafa out if Reds fail to finish in top four”

The players that we have available need to do what Hull City’s players are doing. Make a statement on the pitch that says they are fully behind their manager. Come on you Redmen!

I am far from panicky about us finishing outside the top four, when we get everybody fit we will go on a good run and twat quite a few teams along the way. Personally, despite the nightmare start I think a top two finish is still on the cards if we can get our best players on the park and we can get our confidence levels up. To catch Chelsea at this stage we need them to hit the proverbial wall so to speak and drop silly. Yes it can happen during the cup of nations but they have a good and deep squad, time will tell. We have to take a deep breath and remember the type of football this team played towards the end of last year (fact) and understand that we will get back to that level, hopefully sooner rather than later, as our performance against the Mancs proved. Yes we played them off the park and proved what level we are capable of achieving once we get near our full strength team and even then we where still some way short of our best team on the park. To suggest other wise is just plain rubbish, from a personal point of view, once Aquaman is up and running and everybody is fully match fit, I think this team will prove to be better and stronger than last years one.

On December the 14th 1959, Bill Shankly was appointed Liverpool manager. When he arrived we was in the old second division (Championship). We had been relegated in 1953/54.

The board of directors at Anfield were quite happy to be trading on old past glories and “Brand Loyalty.” However, they made a mistake when they hired Shankly and didn’t realise the man had an ambition to build LFC/Anfield into a bastion of ivincibility. And to make the team that great that they would have to bring in opponents from Mars to have any chance of beating us.

In his second season in charge, Shankly’s side won the second division. In it’s first season in the first, they finished 8th. In the next 50 years – No Liverpool team has ever finished lower!

In his second season in charge, LFC won the title. It was our 6th. The next season we won the FA Cup and then won nothing for the next 7 seasons.

It all has a rather similar ring to it as our situation now. There is a few differences, but one huge alarming difference with today….
OUR FANS!

Shankly’s seven barren seasons are actually my favourite ever times as a Liverpudlian. It instilled something in us that became known as the Liverpool way – and it was the envy of every other club in the world.

We went home or the pub after each defeat and had our little moan, but then couldn’t wait for the next game to show the team and Mr Shankly that we were completely behind them as they fought to build this dynasty.

Sadly the very people who should be now fighting the good fight and helping our manager achieve his ambitions for this club are now turning on him and could well be the reason why this club will plummet to depths unseen in the last 50 years.

I’m actually ashamed that it’s come to this. I never ever thought I’d live to see such treachery from so called Liverpudlians.

FS, I like your comment about going to the pub, having a moan and then waiting until next Saturday to see the lads again.
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Sadly our going to the pub, having a moan is now seven days a week due to the internet age. We can moan to just about anyone we want.
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I don’t think its treachery, more like short sighted individuals who only think about their behaviour the day after they make themselves look stupid.
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The thing that erks me is the YNWA after the post from people who believe it has something to do with the last game. (not the last eon’s of this club). Both you and I have been here a long time, in that time lots have arrived and plenty have left, the one’s who create shit usually leave but others take their place.
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Alas though what would a blog be if we didn’t have something to debate. Truth of the matter what other LFC blog can you be in without fear of being banned. Brings out the best and worst in all. Anyway enough of my idle shit, Liverpool 3, Everton not many.

Ps, pressed the wrong button, FS never be ashamed, Red is the colour of blood, it runs through all our viens.

Keith, some of the football we played last season is a great source of encoragement to me also – and I’m sure most of the other lads in here too.

We know the team is capable of playing outstanding attacking football and I know they can do it again. If we could go on a strong winning run who knows where it will take us?

It’s really good to see that there are quite a few of us in here remaining positive and not panicking.

Timesonline.co.uk/football has some good articles.Everton are there for the taking on Sunday.

But Gaz I am ashamed that these people are seen as Liverpool’s support. The more rational of fans are just quitely resigned to the fact that there are terrible problems at Anfield and there will be until the yanks are gone.

Sadly the kneejerkers with no real sense of what is going on are the ones who leap on every possible opportunity to slag off the manager and some of the players.

I have seen NGog getting stick for only being able to score “Tap Ins.” Have you ever heard such shit in your life.

The kid cost a million quid. He’s scored 1 more goal than Owen, 1 less than Berbatov, Arshavin and Anelka. But what do we see from our “supporters”…
He’s shite and he can only score tap ins. I don’t suppose they were moaning when he scored that tap in against the Mancs from near the edge of the box after picking up the ball from practically his own half and ran with it to mid way inside their box, where he tapped it in from.

But that is the sort of intelligence we are dealing with. I posted how ironic that Souness comment was, but sadly our Mensa dodging friends agree with it. And these are the sort of people who can’t wait to get on the phones to the likes of Collymoore and saying the speak for me and you.

So, yes mate. I truly am ashamed that these sort of people are now trading on the legacy we have built up and passed on. They are a disgrace.

More irony FS, when some of these people call themselves ‘true fans’, literally.

I do not believe all of them, at least those unknown to us, are actual ‘fans’ of LFC because I have come across a few similar copy-and-paste posts in different blogs, taking potshots and disappearing, only to return immediately after we falter in some ways. Some, I feel, are fans from rival teams having a laugh at us whenever there is an opportunity. Because it is mindboggling that these fans do not know so many things that is happening behind the scene or the circumstances surrounding us. But of course there is a stronger chance that I am wrong.

Now, I do want to believe that H&G are actually paying and planting CyberTroopers around the world.

Ngog – Sorry just dont see it – for me he loses the ball to much and isn’t strong enough to lead the line – a couple of times against Debrecen he had the ball at his feet and didn’t know what to do with it

I know he scored some important goals for us but all those chances you’d expect any striker to get them and for the united one as far as I remember he nearly missed – didn’t the ball hit the keeper before going in ?

Now he could be one for the future but at the moment when he plays he doesn’t give us much of an attacking option when going forward – but who else is there

I used NGog as an example of fans shit thinking. You just proved me point.

Well we`re in the news again today.What would the media ever do if we were put out of business by the two pricks.

First thing is the ground share.Now that our neighbours across stanley park have been rejected a chance to build the new Tesco stadium in Kirby,the media is all over the idea of a ground share with LFC.

I for one am against the idea.Both clubs would lose their identity,with a shared stadium.They could never call it their own.We couldn`t have our own KOP at one end of the ground as proposed in the fantasy stadium to be built by the two pricks.
Financially it would make sense but that is about it.Anyway we don`t have the money to even half pay for a stadium in the first place and i`m not too sure about Everton,but i think Tesco were backing them in their venture so unless we all jumo in to bed together i can`t see the two clubs having the finance for it.

Other thing is the Rude van nistlleroy rumours.IMO thats all they are.I can`t see it happening.I think its paper talk.Any move involving a past player from either club will recieve media coverage.Not sure how i feel about it if it were to happen.A former manc in our side?I`d find it hard to have affection for him.If real were looking to get some off their payroll in january i wouldn`t mind Rafael Van Der Varrt.He seems a decent player.Taking away the Liverpool/manc rivalry and looking at it from a footballing point of view Van Nistellroy would be exactly the same case as owen.Low risk and if kept fit would probably score goals.(big if though).

Anyone who can`t see N`gogs progression is just downright ignorant.Even rival fans i talk to who said he was a waste of space only a matter of months ago can now see he has something.

An Linn..

“and for the united one as far as I remember he nearly missed – didn’t the ball hit the keeper before going in ? ”

That has to be the most ridiculous comment i`ve read in a while.

FS -Touche

But thats my opinion – I’m allowed to express it and I think its a valid point – look at the Debrecen game again and see how many times our passing moves broke down with Ngog (Kuyt was another – but thats for another post)

Look at the goal again – he didn’t really know much about it he just jumped with the keeper and got a lucky touch

TT – I didn’t say he hasn’t progressed – what I was saying was he hasn’t prgressed enough to lead our line when we generally play with one up front

How so on the United game – as far as I remember (can’t look at videos in work – I’ll check it later) he beat the offside trap and ran onto the ball took it to the keeper and placed it to his right – but as it was going in it hit the keeper I think on the arm – were was I going with this – Oh yeah – he got the goal and fair paly to him but it was no great piece of skill or anything and could of just as well have been a save – its was nothing that I wouldn’t expect any other palyer to do.

A 20-year-old leading the attack of THE Liverpool Club…no sh*t! LIVERPOOL FC! He must have been carrying 10 tonnes of rock on his shoulders. But surprise..surprise.., he delivers.

An Linn, “It was nothing that I wouldn’t expect any other player to do”

??????

Don’t you realise that Ngog is filling in as the spearhead of our attack until Torres returns?

Ngog is 20 years of age and very inexperienced at this level (obviously given his age)but the time he is getting on the pitch now will stand him in good stead for the future.

Let’s hope he bags the winner against the Toffee’s on Sunday and, er……….. get behind him perhaps?

..had tears in my eyes writing that down..

SOAK – A 20 year old leading the attack – yeah because we never had that before – Folwer and Owen spring to mind

Steve – What I meant was that any decent player no matter what his age should score the chances

20 Years of age – At 20 you either good enough or or not – again think of Fowler and Owen at that age

I’ll get behind him no problem there and I’ll gladly come on here on Monday and eat humble pie

I realise the he’s filling in for Torres thats my whole point – I seriously don’t think he’s good enough

Although you all probably think I’m a muppet it is good to talk football again

An Lin, look at the other comments. Obviously these lads get the point. You even touched on it in your answer to me… he’s a kid.

We should all realise that – like Lucas – this kid shouldn’t be carrying all this responsibility, especially in this time.

If he was playing for Man U or the Arse, the papers would be full of the usual “wonder kid” stuff. But sadly, some of our own fans don’t even realise what a job the kid is doing.

And yes. The Manc goalie got a glove on the ball, but so what? What difference does that make?

But I wasn’t even really going on about NGog. I was talking about fans who complain about a kid who is taking on a huge responsibility and weight of expectation being undermined by the very people who should support him.

Obviously if the yanks had given Rafa enough money – or even acquired his first targets instead of ordering the available money to be spent on different players – then we wouldn’t be in this situation. We would still have Bellamy at the club and may have even had the likes of Arshavin. But no. We have to make do with one kid that cost a million quid.

In fact, we won’t even allow Rafa to buy the youngsters he wants and have to make do with basement bargain buys while Arsenal swoop on players like Walcott and Ramsey. And then our “Support” moans about what players we don’t have and the likes of Arsenal do.

I honestly do get sad when I see the state of our support nowadays. Like I said earlier, I remember going trophyless for 7 years under Shankly. It was never like this. Go and check some write ups and videos of when we finally won the title at Wolves in 72. One of the greatest times I ever had as a red. And I honestly don’t know why it’s gone like this.

It’s bloody easy supporting LFC. It should be a joy. But I don’t care who this upsets… the attitude of some people nowadays just knocks me ill. I’d hate to be in the trenches with them.

Missed 155 I don’t see how you can’t see the irony of your posts.

Yes some lads are ready at 20, some aren’t. NGog is a young lad doing a good job under some very strenuous conditions.

As LFC fans we should see this and back the kid to the hilt… it’s the Liverpool Way!

FS – Oh I’ll support him alright – like I’ll support Dossena, Voronin – they may be shite in my opinion but when they play they have my full support,

Now we all know why we have to play to Ngog – its a crying shame that a club like Liverpool is stuck with a 20 year old to lead its line (and in my opinion a 20 year old who’s not good enough)

Maybe its like transferance i.e. the problem with Liverpool is that we can only afford to have Ngog leading the line so therefore we take it out on the player rather than the source of the problem.

Not me though – I just think he’s not up to it

Talking of kids and when they are ready… That’s one of the things I see our fans slagging Rafa for.

This is what I find so ridiculous, ironic and hypocritical about armchair managers and coaches.

If Rafa was to throw the kids in (or even estabblished pros like Torres or Aquilani when it’s too early after injury) he would get lambasted for it – especially if it led to injuries.

Micheal Owen was overplayed in our panic to try and catch Man U. Most of Rafa’s critics won’t even remember how all Owen’s injury woes began… he was bombing through on the Leeds goal when he went down like he’d been shot. There was nobody near him at the time, but I knew the lad was in trouble.

Players with pace like that are suseptable to hamstring injuries. It could possibly become a real problem for Nando but I don’t think that’s the case.

One of the problems is, some people’s skeletons don’t stop growing until they are in their early twenties. Therefore muscles aren’t fully developed and over playing them at such a young age increases the risks of chronic/repeating soft tissue injuries. And that situation can last until their early/mid twenties.

It’s no use just shouting it never stopped Rooney. They are all individuals and develop at different times. And many times I have said in here, that I can’t wait for Pacheco to make the step up. I rate that kid highly and think he could go onto great things. I think he’ll be fantastic playing just behind Torres. But I would never dream of undermining Rafa by demanding he should be played.

I don’t have all the facts. But I trust Rafa to do what’s right for the club and the player.

An Linn have you never seen seasoned internationals miss sitters? Ibrohimavic (sorry cannot be shagged to get the right spelling, Keane, Torres, Gerrard, Owen and Fowler. There is no such thing as a tap in. The sitters and so called tap ins that Keane missed in 6 months he was with us was staggering and he is a late twenty year old with bags of prem experience and bags of international experience. The way you say it, you would think that a penalty has never been missed? How many great goal scorers have missed penalties? The goal that Ngog scored was no tap in, he made it look easy by his cool finishing, that showed class beyond his years. You talk about Owen and Fowler, two of the three modern legends of Liverpool after Rush, Torres will be the next. Not everybody can be the next Ian Rush we still need the John Aldridge’s of this world, good professionals who don’t let you down and who knows what Ngog can develop into, bearing in mind that Henry, yes he of the Hand was a flop at Barcelona, so think before you dismiss late developers. For me at 20 Ngog has shown great maturity and enough talent to merit some respect.

Missed 158…. mate it’s far too early to say NGog isn’t up to it. And the fact is the lad is doing a very good job. Go check some stats. You might be in for a bit of a surprise.

I know stats don’t tell the whole story, but the fact is the lad was brought here to go in the youth team. He cost buttons and he wasn’t expected to feature in the first team.

The last thing any of us should be doing is slag of a young man who is trying his absolute best under some very trying circumstances… it’s the sort of thing that can wreck a kid’s confidence.

FS – A big difference between the attitude of people nowadays than 30 years ago – but all older people think the time when they were growing up was better – “the youth of today” – and all that

I think the problem with supporters like me who started supporting Liverpool in the early 90′s is that we have never seen Liverpool win the League -but all of the older guys would be telling us how great it was to see Liverpool win everything in the 70′s and 80′s and we’re impatient to see if happen again –

“Will this be Liverpool’s year” – a constant refrain before we implode and have to start again – can get you down at times

An Lin, as I pointed out, us old crincklies saw our fair share of disapointments. And believe me, it wasn’t easy for us to watch the club disintergrate under Souness.

Man U never knocked us off any pedestal – we jumped.

I also often say in here, that I understand the young lads frustration. But I tell you the difference between the generations… we never just accepted failure under Shankly. We knew we was building towards something special so we supported through out the darkest times. I think we also see the comparisons with what is happening now under Rafa. And most of us firmly believe if the man is just left alone to do his job, he will deliver on his promise… to leave behind a legacy of prolonged success like Bill and Bob did.

I think it’s just ridiculous how this generation demand everything and throw wobblers when they don’t get it yesterday.

Yes, I know every generation complains about the ones that follow. But it’s not just me being a miserable auld bastard. I honestly do fear that these young uns with their constant whingeing and complaining could derail something special and we will be back in the football doldrums for many years to come.

Keith@160 – I’ll take your point about the pro’s missing sitters but what I was saying is that in the goals Ngog was scored I haven’t seen anything special – and if your a 20 year old starting for Liverpool you should be special (see Owen, Fowler) – and it’s a sorry state of affairs when all we have is Ngog.

In all honesty, I’m sick of this conversation. It just rumbles on and on and I find it really boring and tiring. Every time there’s a set back we end up going through the same routine, and once the Rafa slaggers have been put in their place they just bide their time and come back with more complaints and moaning at the next chance… each time moving the goal posts and inventing something new to slag Rafa for.

Well, seeing he’s getting it now for doing what Souness described as “unthinkable,” failing to qualify for the knock out stages of the Champion’s League I thought I’d post these stats…

Liverpool’s Record In Europe since Souness:

Graeme Souness:

1991/92 – UEFA Cup 4th round (lost to Genoa)

1992/93 – Cup Winners Cup 2nd round (lost to Spartak Moscow)

1993/94 – Not in Europe

Roy Evans:

1994/95 – Not in Europe

1995/96 – UEFA Cup 2nd round (lost to Brondby)

1996/97 – Cup Winners Cup semi final (lost to PSG)

1997/98 – UEFA Cup 2nd round (lost to Strasbourg)

Gerard Houllier:

1998/99 – UEFA Cup 2nd round (lost to Celta Vigo)

1999/00 – Not in Europe

2000/01 – WON UEFA CUP

2001/02 – Champions League Quarter Final (lost to Leverkusen)

2002/03 – UEFA Cup 5th round (lost to Celtic)

2003/04 – UEFA Cup 4th round (lost to Marseille)

Rafael Benitez:

2004/05 – WON CHAMPIONS LEAGUE

2005/06 – Champions League 1st knockout phase (lost to Benfica)

2006/07 – Champions League Final (lost to AC Milan)

2007/08 – Champions League Semi Final (lost to Chelsea)

2008/09 – Champions League Quarter Final (lost to Chelsea)

2009/10 – Champions League Group Stage (knocked out by Fiorentina and Lyon)

Do any of Rafa’s detractors know that before he came to the club we’d only ever progressed passed the Group Stage once.

Yes, read that again…. Since the ban after Heysel, we’d only once got past the group stage. Yep only ONCE had we got past the Group Stage.

Well I tell you what I think…. Souness is right – Rafa has accomplished the unthinkable by turning a club that regularilly failed to qualify for Europe into a mainstay team of the Champion’s league.

Which in turn means he’s also turned us into a constant top 4 team, when the likes of Souness couldn’t even qualify for the UEFA Cup… despite spending big dough with the full backing of the boardroom/owners.

And I find it frightening to think that people who don’t even know the truth of the situation will drive out the best manager we’ve had since Paisley.

And that An Lin is the difference between the generations… in all honesty there’s never been a generation before this one with so much – in the material sense of things that is. They’ve known no major wars. No famines. No real poverty. But for all they have in things/stuff, an awful lot of them seem to lack a patientce and back bone.

And I honestly hate to say that, as I know it’s not all young people. But I assure you, you don’t find many reds over 40 crying on the phones/internet after every game.

FS – Stats can be used to suit any agenda – 98% of people know that

I shouldn’t be mistaking for a Rafa basher – I think he’s a great manager who’s done his best with a poor squad – sometimes though I question his tatics and choices – because after all I am a football fan-

As for people wanting things instantly now – well thats just the world we live in – instant messaging, 24/7 communications and all that,

I’m not daft mate. I know all that. I’m just giving my opinion and that’s all it is. But in my defence, I’ll say I have been around for awhile and I’ve seen an awful lot of Liverpool FC over the years.

This bloody kneejerk bullshit that we have to suffer at each and every setback is something new. But it’s not only riduculous – as them stats bear out – it’s very damaging to the club.

Don’t think I just come in here and moan. I will not stand for it at the match either. I know people just see football as another form of entertainment nowadays. But that is not what LFC is about. These sort of people really have no place at this club.

This conversation started because Rafa is being slagged for not qualifying for the Champion’s League… them stats can’t be bent in any way. This is provable fact.

Ironically Rafa has created this situation for himself by not only winning the trophy and taking us to another final, but just by the fact that he has turned us into a top 4 team.

This man’s record stands against anyone’s in football. And that is not even taking into account the circumstances he is working under.

Like I have said before, if Appy Arry or Fat Sam had this record they would be lauded as geniuses.
Sadly though the zenophoibic English media has it in for Rafa and will use any lie to undermine the man. That is bad enough but when our so called supporters then use them lies to beat the man with… well, I’m more than entitled to turn on them.

You know yourself that NGog is only a young man who was never meant to be running our front line on his own. Yet instead of looking at all the circumstances that lead to this situation, you just write the kid off as not good enough at the age of 20.

Well, the only reason I never just tore into you for this is because I know you aren’t someone who just comes in here to stab Rafa in the back at every opportunity. But nevermind writing NGog off you then also choose to say the stats I posted – all actual facts – can be bent to mean anything I choose to suit my agenda.

The mind really does boggle.

@An Linn,Smith and Arthur

Sometimes am so shocked at how some of the lads in here think,a case in point are the likes of Fat Scouser,Keith….week in week out,they try to be saints of this blog in one way or the other..i wonder how some one can be at loss of complete imagination…to them its very okey when liverpool Fc win one match out of 10, Rafa is the best thing to have happened to LFC in the last 5yrs and his signings have been tremendous(Lucas,voronin,Dossena…etc) they try hard to get positives from every liverpool loss

and oh ya! they keep believing that they are more REDS than others and their opinions should stand all the time…they come up with all sorts of silly statistics ,these idiots keep on forgetting that Rafa won both the FA cup and CL final with half the squad inherited from Houllier and with in the last 5yrs, JC and Stevie G are the only surviving members of that regime! so many people are jumping on the Band wagon of the american owners being the problem but i believe Rafa is supposed to be held responsible for this! he buys the players,trains them and motivates them,whatever those lads are doing on the field week in week out,those are the fruits of the Rafalution!

Just like i said before,i did pick a leaf from LB,i learnt to lower my expectations and a liverpool win to me comes as a suprise!

I wonder how FS can be so cool when facing these sorts of nonsense again and again, week in and week out..I would have gone out of my mind in explaining it for the nth time already

Hats off to you, FS!

168… point proven. You stat fact, it’s trying to be a saint.

Well, I’m going to say something here and don’t give a fuck what reaction it gets me. In fact Gerry banning me would actually do me a favour. I haven’t enjoyed this site for awhile, not the blog and some of the comments but shit like that has been ruining it for quites some time for me.

You lad are a complete and utter gobshite. In fact you are such a prick that you even slag off loyalty as a bad trait in someone.

Fact is, I’ve only stayed in this blog out of loyalty to it. It was the first one I found when I first went on the net. I’ve seen the writers come and go and I’ve done my best to support them when I could have just done one to another spot where it is full of actual match going supporters.

I really would love to see the likes of you on the Kop spouting that sort of shite. Have a guess how long you would last.

Why don’t you just fuck off and “Support” a team that will meet your entertainment needs.

LFC certainly doesn’t need the likes of you sniping away at it at every possible opportunity. You absolute shithouse.

An Linn, while I disagree with you I’ll give you kudos for at least continuing to state why you feel the way you do.

That is what this blog should be about.

Arthur, same to you sir. I completely disagree with your opinion of Lucas, but I respect the fact that you didn’t just state “he’s shite” and leave… you named names, listing players of equivalent status at other clubs, who you thought were better.

That at least is a basis of discussion. But having said that, how can you not …
“see why people on this forum who disagree with other people’s point of view have to get so worked up completely dismiss that person’s opinion as being utterly ridiculous”

…when that “opinion” is something along the lines of …
“i’m sure you even have an explanation regarding how we managed to draw at home to birmingham , the spuds ,villa at home..can’t wait to hear it”

You see Arthur, that isn’t an opinion… its just stupidity… if only because we didn’t draw with Spurs… and it wasn’t at home… and one possible explanation for that particular loss just might have been our two centerbacks colliding , requiring treatment for 10 minutes, one suffering a broken jaw and one playing on with a mild concussion, subbing in a kid in his first Prem game and having to play out the game with a reshuffled back line and tactics.

And that doesn’t addess the knock on effect of playing subsequent games with a broken jaw and concussion/migraine… but noooo, none of that is an explanation it is just some bollocks nonsense I’ve pulled out of my arse.
The problem is Arthur, is that smith should know that, coz he’s a Liverpool fan and watched the game, right?

You (generic) want to be entitled to your opinion?
Okay… then state one that doesn’t sound like it came out of the mouth of a petulent 5 year old. (not directed at either you or An Linn, Arthur)
And be prepared to back it up, coz that’s what is expected in here… or fuck off to some other blog where text speak and one line bombs are the expected norm.

Gerry puts a lot of thought into his blogs. Even when I don’t agree with him, I respect the reasearch and reasoning behind his conclusions… and that is form for debate… and boy have we had some good-uns in the past.
Kopblog is a safe-haven from the complete and utter nonsense you find in other forums… let’s all try to keep it that way can we?

I have 30 years experience playing and coaching on many continents. I think that that means I know a bit about footy. But I’ve learned stuff I didn’t know from guys like FS and LB and a host of others.

Guys like smith contribute nothing to this blog and frequently ruin it, causing people to get sidetracked trying to address their statements.

SonofaKhan as you can see from my last comment, we all have a breaking point.

haha… then sula types that.
Classic!
You couldn’t make it up, could you?

@Fat scouser

Do all guys who go past 50yrs think like u do??? then am afraid i dont wanna get to 50!

FS, don’t leave. Think of yourself as Rafa, and these gobshites as the media.

Stand fast mate, the barbarians are at the Shankly Gate. But you do not stand alone!

@Aitch

if thats what takes u to sleep!

FS, I do hope you consider the others here who enjoy and look forward to your ‘rants’ everyday. It would be a great loss to this site if you were not here. I personally have great respect for your knowledge and experience as an LFC supporter, you and the other regulars who have been there and seen that.

Hmmmm….

“to them its very okey when liverpool FC win one match out of 10″
Really? You weren’t in my house when I was constructively screaming at the fuckin telly for players to run into space, or play a certain pass, during each match.
You didn’t see me raise an eyebrow when certain substitutions were made.
You certainly didn’t see me moping around after each poor performance or result.
But what you also didn’t see was me losing my nut and making nonsensical statements that have no basis.

“Rafa is the best thing to have happened to LFC in the last 5yrs”
Well, I’d argue that Fernando Torres is the best thing to happen to LFC in the last 5 years, but then again, he wouldn’t have happened to LFC were it not for Rafa, so let’s say they’re tied for first and leave it at that.

“and his signings have been tremendous Lucas, voronin, Dossena…etc)” Torres, Alonso, Reina, Bennayoun, Agger, Skrtel, Johnson… maybe Aquadude, (TBD) … plus half a dozen debatable names.

“they try hard to get positives from every liverpool loss”
Well yeah… that is what you do as a lover of the game and a lifelong Liverpool supporter. The negatives are there for all to see in a loss or poor performance, the positives almost always gets overlooked… hell they often get overlooked in a win or good performance.

“and oh ya! they keep believing that they are more REDS than others”
I’ll assume you meant better, but anyway, we don’t think we’re better reds, just perhaps more experienced.

“and their opinions should stand all the time”
not if you can intelligently talk me out of my opinion. I’ve publicly conceded poiints to other posters when they have intelligently backed their opinons up. Others have too.

“they come up with all sorts of silly statistics”
You don’t do that?

“these idiots keep on forgetting that Rafa won both the FA cup and CL final with half the squad inherited from Houllier and with in the last 5yrs, JC and Stevie G are the only surviving members of that regime!”
Right… coaz if we had held onto Dudek, Baros, Kewell, Diouf, Diao, Biscan, Cheyrou, Bernardi, et all, we’d be top of the league now!

“so many people are jumping on the Band wagon of the american owners being the problem”
…er… coz they ARE!

“but i believe Rafa is supposed to be held responsible for this! he buys the players,trains them and motivates them, whatever those lads are doing on the field week in week out,those are the fruits of the Rafalution!”
The only real and true thing you said… where you differ from those who put some actual thought into their opinions is…
… you think we should be achieving more with our resources…
… whereas those of us that live in the real world understand that we have in fact, so far overachieved with them.

We are not happy about our current predicament… we just understand that there are reasons for it.

Sula CBC rules, your own lack of any footballing knowledge is a true wonder of the world. Try substitute Sainthood, which I might add, could not be further from the truth and I am fairly sure FS will mirror my words, and put in reasoned, intelligent analysis of the situation, instead of the misinformed hyped super boyle that has only one purpose and that is to sell newspapers and to attract hits on the internet in order to create more advertising revenue.

Linn, the same poor squad that finished second with a record points haul or a good squad, with a great first team that can and will beta anybody on their day (Madrid, ManU, Juventus, Inter, Barcalona, to name a few) that lacks sufficient quality depth, that has had more than its fair share of injuries and is temporally suffering a setback because it has not got adequate cover like some of the larger and richer teams. There are always three sides to every story, yes I tend, like FS, Atich and a few other, quite a few others, more than you would like to think, they are just a little more patient than some of us to rather look at the positive side of things, if that is age or a better understanding as to how difficult things are then so be it. The are quite a few younger fans with the same outlook. What Rafa is building is Shankly like in the making if you cannot see that then so be it, it is a waste of time going over and over the same old things when you refuse to even consider it or even take it into account. The CBC is a pure joke to me and for most parts I treat it like that, that Sula identifies with the likes of Smith says it all, your last comment I will lower my expectations does you no favors, I would hope you would try to take everything into account and understand where we came from and what we have accomplished on 16 mill per year under Rafa. As good as he is he cannot change wine into water or even walk on it. When you have no option for instant success you have to let it mature and take a risk or two.

Sulka you wouldn’t see 50 if you ever went on the Kop you fucking tit.

Aitch I won’t let the likes of that tit see me off. I’m made of harder stuff mate. It just becomes so very bloody tedious. But it’s not just that…

It seems like most of the time spent on here is wasted putting these cock heads in their place. It’s a shame. There are some real serious problems at Anfield that we could be disscussing. As Timmy said earlier, the ground sharing issue has raised it’s head again today. That is a huge development at the moment. And there’s been Babel talking to the fuckin Sun of all people. And then there’s the actual footy to talk about. The worrying loss of form and all it entails – again massive development in regard to monies and what Rafa mightn’t recieve.

Instead, all I’ve been able to do is defend a young lad that should be getting support. And then defending actual facts that got written off as propoganda. And An Lin is certainly not one of the Sula brigade or I would have just told him to FO an all.

This is the sort of person I am thoroughly ashamed of having as a supporter of my club… arrogant, stupid, clueless and completely bottleless.

FO and support Chelsea or Man U… you tit, you’re not wanted at LFC.

This one by Tomkins was just out. More statistics eh?

http://tomkinstimes.com/2009/11/liverpool-can’t-afford-to-win-the-league/

@fat scouser

Honestly at ur age,i wouldnt be thinking towards that direction! u think i owe ur stupid ass an explaination for being an LFC supporter? its a total disgrace that u have folks who look up to you!

And oh ya! where do i sign up to be a Man U or chelsea fan u stupid ass!

To everyone who comes on here to make challenging points (An Linn, Arthur, Smith etc).Looking over the last 2 or 3 threads the biggest problem is that its not appreciated how deeply entrenched peoples viewpoints are. The thing is that fans on here have formed their outlook over at least ten or more years so its not like anyones going to change their tune all of a sudden. No matter how misguided and stupid stuff they say seems, most of what you say sounds that way to them aswell, its just how they think. For alot of people accepting a deficiency in the team is accepting their opinions are wrong or stupid.

I know when you complain or try and critisize players its done to let frustration out, and that its interesting to go over games and pick apart whats good and what isn’t good. To others its a personal attack, so they’d rather talk about the owners or media than whats actually happening on the pitch. If someone attacks your opinion just get on with it, its just how they think, you don’t need to justify your opinions to people who think differently to you! In most cases they’d have little to say footballwise that you’d that find interesting anyway.

Hi guys, i have been reading the blog for a while but this is the first time i’m posting. I’ve been seeing great fans here and have learned a lot about the club. And after another bad result our own fans turn on each other? Isn’t our anthem YNWA? Let’s stick together behind the team. I blame it on Rafa for winning the UCL and attracting the bandwagoners.:) !!
How do i post?

Fuck off knobhead and these are the last word I will say to you…. You are an idiotic wind up merchant that isn’t worth the waste of cyberspace nevermind thought and effort. Tatty by tit.

SOAK: Tomkins is right, that’s not opinion. That’s fact as proven by the stats. People with half a brain realise this but this is what we, as a club, are fighting against so mustn’t just give in and blame it all on the lack of money.

The knobheads amongst us can’t see what we are up against, and they certainly don’t realise how bad things could turn if they get their way.

They actually think the mindless drivel they type is important. They haven’t got the sense to see that if Rafa goes we will then be managed by some one who will just create no ructions for the Americans and we probably will end up in a shit stadium shared with Everton where we will finally see the demise of LFC as we know it.

Things really are that bad. So believe me some idiotic kid sitting on a keyboard half the world away deliberately winding people up means absolutely nothing to me.

Maccy D I actually take it as a compliment when I’m insulted by the likes of you…
I have forgotten more about football and LFC in a five minute nap than the likes of you will ever learn.

FS that remark I made about the stats was in reponse to your post#161 about the stats for Ngog
not about the stats posted in your post #165

Hadn’t read your post on #165 when I sent it

Just in case you thought I was being flippant

Just in from work I’ll through the other posts now because I sure I’m getting slated

Sorry lad. I thought it was to the Euro record. And fact is you haven’t been getting slatted.

It’s a shame really that we can’t have a decent discussion on this situation we are in. I’d love to have a serious debate on the alarming loss of form we are suffering, but when you are faced with shite like this….
“The thing is that fans on here have formed their outlook over at least ten or more years so its not like anyones going to change their tune all of a sudden.”

…There’s not much time left for decent discussion.

Kieth – Thats our problem though we have a great first team – on its day better than anyone but we struggle when we get injuries, and we all know were that problem stems from

FS – not to worry, don’t mind getting slated, I post my opinion and you and some others post how you think I’m wrong

some other posters though I don’t know why you let them bother you

But lets get back to football – what is your opinion (and everybody else’s) on our loss of form

MaccyD, the biggest problem is that the CBC are talking crap based mostly on falsehoods from newspapers!

These are the type of guys that would probably prefer that Liverpool lose every match, so then they can waltz in here and tell everyone how right they were in the first place.

I will not bother with them any more. If they want to learn about LFC then, first of all, they need to be willing to learn. Listening a bit to some of the more senior members on this blog would be a good start.

To the non-CBC members. Keep up the fight lads. Something tells me we’re not out of this dark tunnel just yet.

I forgot anyone who disagrees with FS is a traitor………

An Lin, Lurgan I’ve been saying for awhile that we won’t just magically come out of this slump. I could be wrong. We could just click and go on a good run playing the sort of football we know we are capable of producing. But in all my years, I’ve never known anything like this. It’s quite amazing really. The amount of injuries and loss of form hitting so many key players at the same time is incredible. And I think it’s going to take some really scrappy fighting results to put an end to this and then a slow march back to what we are capable of.

Once some results go our way, I’m sure the actual performances will get better too. As I said, I’ve never seen anything like this, but once we get a few results go our way, and we start moving up the table, we will see a general all round improvement as confidence returns to the camp.

Some of our players are below the grade needed to win titles. And some others aren’t ready to be carrying this sort of expectation yet. But they was never meant to be carrying our title expectations. They are squad players and young developing players.

We have a first 11 that is a match for anyone. We have a squad of 16/17 players who should be enough to take on a title challenge. Sadly we haven’t been able to field either on anything like a regular basis.

This would be bad enough if we had settled decent owners. Sadly, it’s proving impossible with the shit we do have. We also have the weight of history and expectation hanging over young lads like Lucas and NGog. Put yourself in their place for a moment… Time was they would walk onto the field and the Kop would lift them and their support would add a spring to their step. Sadly nowadays they walk onto the pitch and the weight of expectation lands on them. Then the anxiety and nerves seeps out of the stands and knocks them further down.

I can remember many times when the support of the Kop pushed the lads over the line to victory. And visiting teams used to visually wilt in front of it. Not no more, but that just brings me full circle as to why our support is so vital. And I can’t be arsed going through that again. Traitorous back stabbers will never know the importance of loyalty.

Linn that’s not quite true, we have a decent enough squad when everybody is fit, yes it is on the thin side but getting stronger every season as the youngsters gain more experience and get stronger. If you take our best line-up in my opinion and yes there are a few positions that cvan go one way or the other, depending on the opposition
Riena,
Johnson, Carra, Agger, Aurelleo
Masch Aquaman
Kuyt, Gerrard, Reira
Torres

On the bench we would have, Benny, Lucas, Skertal, Insua, Babel, El Zhar, Ngog, Degen, Hercules and Cav to choose from. All of a sudden we do not look that weak or thin and rotating Benny, Babel, Lucas, Skertal and giving El Zhar and Ngog 20 miniutes here and ther at the end of a match helps give people a rest. We also have the likes of Pacheco, Nemeth, Ayala and Kelly being groomed and waiting in the wings with a whole host of other talented youngsters like, Bruno, Amoo, Eccelston, Ince etc as the next generation. If you take some time to watch a few reserve games like I try to do from time to time you will be very surprised at what we have in terms of talent coming through. We are again top of the reserve league with these youngsters and lets say if we only get 4 breaking into the first team squad, I think there will be more (Nemeth, Kelly, Pacheo and Ayala have shown that they have a very good shot) and for me I like Eccelston, Bruno and Ince and by all account, the German kid Buchtman and french kid, defender are looking very promising as well. It adds to the depth and quality without costing an arm and leg. That is what building a dynasty is called when you have owners like the two twats we have. It takes time though and knowledgeable fans need to support at time like these.

Saying all that if you took 6 (we have had over 10 at times) of your first choice players out of any top half table team would they do better than what we have doen. The only team I think could have coped better would have been Cheslea. Think of Manu without Roony, Coke head, Vidic, Evera, Berbatove and Carrick They would be extremely ordinary. Arsenal without Fabragas, Van Persie, Cliché, Sagne, Arshevan and their new central defender that has made a great start to his Arsenal career. Do an exercise and look at a few teams and take their best players out and se how it would affect them, let alone the disruptions of half fit players and the swapping of combinations. Gerrard, Torres, Reira, Benny, Agger, Skertal, Babel, Aquaman, El Zhar, Degen, Aurelleo, Kelly (Carra’s red card and clash of heads) have all been in and out and half fit for most of the season and we wonder why we are stretched and have had a poor run. Who’s to blame Rafa yeah right, it just so far off the mark, it’s laughable and not worthy of real supporters if it can be so easily ignored and shoved aside as not being relevant. If it is not what is?

FS the talk about the joint stadium is just that, talk. I left when I was 8 so for me and with the owners we have got, putting emotion aside and thinking what is best for the actual team, maybe it would not be such a bad thing. I know there are fans that would scream blue murder and would think it would be the end of the world. However from a commercial and playing sense it makes good sense. Our owners have not got a pot to piss in. That would mean financing it, which means more revenue going towards paying off the debt even with the increase in capacity we would be no better off than we are know, which means less money to spend on the team or the same which is zero at the last window. It will take up to 10 to 12 years to pay off the debt before we see any real benefit, team wise from the extra money.

On the other hand if we had the owners a institution like Liverpool deserves they would finance it without burdening the club and look at is as asset building. Give Rafa the funds he needs to build the legacy that he is already building, only quicker, creating the extra revenue and income from more on the field success translating to off the filed marketing gains, which in turn make then get a better return in the long run and an asset worth well over a billion. Then it a no brainier to go it alone and keep the identity separate. Very difficult one to call but I cannot see it happening, too much passion and emotion involved to make the correct decision. Personally I would prefer to remain separate, but is it better for the team? Would we take on the field success and a shared stadium or give Rafa time, remain separate, but struggle more to get the on the field success. Teams like Spurs and Man City are only going to get stronger and stronger and to stay at the top harder and harder without matching them investment wise.

No MaccyD, anybody that ignores the facts is just fucking thick

“and one possible explanation for that particular loss just might have been our two centerbacks colliding , requiring treatment for 10 minutes, one suffering a broken jaw and one playing on with a mild concussion, subbing in a kid in his first Prem game and having to play out the game with a reshuffled back line and tactics.”

is that a reason?????

do you treat your life that way too??? giving excuses the moment you come across a hurdle ??

On top of that , you along with the rest of the “unemployment benefit” brigade think that making lame statements backed by even more luaghable excuses and justifications makes you a “true” fan

Most of us work so unlike you , we cant afford to sit on our arses while typin away to glory on pool blogs…I think this team is piss poor because i , for one , am not fond of being a sore loser and imposing a self-created fanstasy on everyone else and i certainly dont need your opinion on how an opinion is formed when the table , or should i say the tables , clearly back my view

Arthur,

One thing I’d like to point out I don’t blame Rafa for our lack of depth – Its the owners I squarely put the blame on

Your first team – take Torres out and we’ll struggle to score – we’ll dominate the game alright but we’ll lack the cutting edge – Now Aquilani might add more of a cutting edge but without Torres we are weak upfront

FS i can safely say your biggest weakness is rising to the bait of wank stains. For god sake when you read most of those comments you should know not to react. The fact you are makes them have a wee chuckle and keep coming back to poke you with their cyber sticks.
There’s a simple way to identify who’s who in here. Once we go on a run anyone that cant come in an embrace the win is a wind up merchant. Watch this space,Ive noticed it before. some only come in when we suffer a defeat. Its actually a compliment that man u and chelsea supporters pretend to support us just so they can wind up fans on sites like this.
Ignore and move on, to many people enjoy what you contribute to the blog mate.

Look mate, I only posted that because there’s loads of petty arguing and ganging up, and people attempting to get one over. Il admit what I posted was a intended to wind up, but its just because the way stuff debated in here is in a bad state. The blogs are awesome but the debate never seems to get anywhere. Ive got opinions and would join in but when people have said stuff similair to what I would say they have got slated.

Keith I didn’t even want to mention this after I mentioned the stick I had seen NGog getting for actually scoring goals, but here is the level of support we are dealing with…
After the NGog comments I seen somebody answer them by saying, Aquilani is the new Keane but he will be sold in January without ever kicking a ball for us.

It was said in all seriousness and the lad tried his best to justify it and made out it was inside knowledge that he had learned from a source that is very high up in the team. When I pulled him on it, he went into a tirade of abuse that would put our own Chuckle brothers to shame. He near had a fit when I asked him why Rafa would put him on the pitch for the last couple of minutes against Debrecen and cup tie him in that competition – slashing any money we would get for him.

And that’s what happens mate. These fools just say any crap that enters their tiny minds and then abuse anyone who pulls them for it. I’d actually say it’s not so bad on here. Yes, there are the couple who sadden me to think how bad our support has got, but they are of no consequence in the real world. The only really effect they are likely to ever have is on the quality of this site. Sometimes it’s even funny. I remember Burgerman going on one about giving Nemeth a start instead of Voronin or NGog. When it was pointed out to him that Nemeth was on loan and had to go as a part of the Kyriagos deal, it didn’t stop him. He just moved the goal posts.

I could have brought up other examples of this sort. I could have used someone else as BM really isn’t the worse of them. But it shows perfectly what sort of thinking and personality you are trying to talk sense to. Sulka and Mr. Shit being about the worst of who’s left.

So from now on, I’m going to do my best to just ignore them, but I will say this… the only way these type of specimens will disappear is just what we all want – a run of games that see us move back up the table. So I reckon they’ll all be cleared out around about March at the latest.

Missed some of that. I started writing then got caught up in something and missed some comments by the time I posted. Here’s the thing, Roarin mate, I’m exactly the same at the match. I turned on a fella at the Debrecen game for the same thing. I will always do this. I’m not the sort who stands by idly if something I love is being attacked.

Then you look at the quality/content of the posts and think it should be just laughed off/ignored. I’m not having some arsehole call me the benefit bunch. I have raised four children put them all through University and have been succesful enough to not become a wage slave. I own my own business and it’s doing well enough for me to do pretty much as I please. I done this even though I was born into complete poverty and recieved no real education to speak of.

And I know I should just rise above it, but I was also born and rared in a time when elders got respect. I expect no one to respect me in here. I know times have changed, but I’m glad I was taught the Liverpool Way standing on the Kop by the men who came before me. And that education that I got is just one of the reasons why I’m not about to give any respect to these sort of shites.

They are a cancer on the club every bit as bad as H&G. They will cause great damage if they are allowed to go on without some one exposing them for the fools they are. Mind you, if you look at the actual quality of their opinions they need no help in that department.

well , FS , if you really were worthy of respect , going by your seniority , you probably would have had the maturity and sophistication to respect everyones opinions and views..that’s clearly not been the case..So rubbishing someone else’s comments and then expecting them not to have a go at you is a bit stupid in my opinion……..whoops!!i’m not allowed to have one , am i?

Well done FS and a true Liverpool supporter,who like most of us is not always right-like me for instance.

Thanks Jack and sorry for the industrial language. I really should not stoop to such tactics. The thing is though Jack, this sort of mischevious nonsense is growing in the real world not just here. And if left unchecked it could cause awful damage.

I think we all know that Rafa isn’t infallible. Who is? But the fact is he is the glue holding all this together and if he is pushed or walks it could all unravel pretty darn fast.

If H&G are left in control without Rafa at the helm we will probably fall into swift decline and could face a Leeds type scenario. The only thing keeping the club in the hunt at the moment is the money Rafa has brought in through our success in the Champion’s league and top four finishes.

The idiots amongst us seem to think we will go on to better things without Rafa when all previous history and facts make it plain that we will at best go into a period of rebuilding. But how are we supposed to rebuild under the current regime? Surely even the most stupid of us should be able to understand that the only thing we will do is go into a period of decline that we never recover from.

The idiots will say why is that the outcome. They won’t bother their selves to actually look up some fact and see what has happened to big clubs with big histories in the past. They will just stamp their feet and throw their tantrums, and then bugger off if they get their way while the rest of us are left to mourn the club.

I know it’s only a game, but this club has always been part of my life for as long as I can remember and more than just a form of passing entertainment like going to the pictures or something. And I can’t help but be saddened by what I see happening to it and that doesn’t mean on the pitch or in the manager’s office.

Me too Jack !

Lads, to echo someone above, let the posts stand for what they are. Who knows why some of these folk come on here. Move on to football and leave the petty spite to those clowns.

Fa

This is becomming ridiculous, the sites being taken over by a bunch of COAT’S. Over here thats short for Cunt of the Thing. Several posters can fall into that category.
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By the way whats wrong with just tappin’s, have FIFA stopped crediting them as goals. Ps his goal at United was a world class finish, far post, on the ground, against an international keeper. (yeah just a tappin.)
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We are starting to sound like the peoples front of Judea, or was it the popular peoples front of Judea, who fucking knows.

Sorry lads COAT is cunt of a thing, don’t know where I got the “the” from. Lads the scores are starting to improve and we’re arguing more than ever. Simple answer to every one’s issues, Dumb and Dumber (COATS).
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Also don’t be shocked when assets get liquidated to make the Shiek or whoever see a small bottom line. Brand loyal lads.

FS why bother retorting to the wankers just forgets them, they thrive on your raction.

if you dont react they will hopefully fuck off and plauge some other site,

they are nothing but little shites.

i too am on the old side and like you would give them fuck if they were standing next to me

fuck em mate

the storm will pass and we will walk on but not alone mate there are still plenty of us left.

Thing is why does someone have to be a cunt just because some of their opinions differ?

So what if they think Kuyt shouldn’t start, or that the midfield looks a mess or that they were rubbish against Man City or that Chelsea have a better team. I think we’ll comfortably finish top four and hammer Everton, but I also think the things above. Unfortunately were I to mention them like others have I’d have to suffer countless abusive responses. And made to feel as if theyre less of a fan.

If someone can give me a good reason why critisizing the team makes you not a proper fan then Im sure people will stop doing it.

Gaz, what can we say about these red sea pedestrians? Point taken though. Let’s get back to the footie.

I have watched the ITV news going-on about the stadium share. Just a couple of supporters going – I would like it and others saying the opposite.

I doubt that there is much going on there and I hope not. Nothing like H&G getting another loan to pay for more stadium designs on something that will never happen, when they are at the helm anyway.

H&G out.

MaccyD, I think that the problem is the manner in which certain people go about ‘criticising’.

For example, I think that most people would agree that Kuyt is not having the best of seasons, for whatever reason. But considering all of the injuries that we have had from day one, who would replace him.

It does not suffice in Kopblog land to say that Kuyt is crap and should not start. I am sure that if someone came up with a reasoned discussion as to why they think that this is so, a good debate would soon follow.

Lurgan the sad thing is a shared stadium may be our only viable option. Don’t think for one minute the lads at the top are doing the numbers now. They have been suggesting/dismissing it since they arrived. I personally think it will happen as both clubs top brass see no other way unless a sugar daddy buys one or both clubs.
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Hell they may even amalgamate into the Stanley Park Rangers. After all it would make Hicks job of remembering the names of his teams, much easier. Stanley Park Rangers, Red and Blue striped shirts. With red shorts and red socks. Ah fuck it one blue sleeve and thats it.

Gaz – Lets hold on here a minute now – I’ve come on here and stated what I think – Ngog is not good enough to lead the line – Instead of coming back with a reasoned argument you just dismissed me basically as a cunt because my opinion differs than yours,

Now how are you any any different that any other posters who come on here and start this name calling bullshit

Everton’s number crunchers have been proposing the ground share again as the government have stepped in and vetoed the Everton move to Kirkby, and the proposed amalagamtion with Tesco. Like us, they cannot afford a new stadium. And it’s only a matter of time before they propose it to our own skint owners. Thankfully they are to skint to even consider it.

20, even 10, years ago, I would have actually seen this as a good thing. But that was back in the days when we went to games together. Sadly though this is also something young supporters put an end to in the 90′s.

The disregard of things like tradition and loyalty is upsetting for the people who made these traditions. But now, the way things have became, over the past decade I think a shared stadium would only be another crack in the ever dwindling Liverpool way and would definetely lead to our own identity being chipped away even further. We are in dangerous times but some people cannot or won’t see the big picture.

There is plenty of examples. You don’t have to look back at what happened to huge teams like Huddersfield. You only have to look at Leeds and Newcastle to see what can happen when kneejerk fans are pandered to by kneejerk executives and owners. I really don’t enjoy scare mongering but there is more at stake than some idiot shouting Rafa out because his Man U supporting colleagues are giving them a bit of stick in an office half the world away.

You can see by the comments in here, that this sort of thing is growing. And as I’ve said in here many times, this little blog of ours is like a microcosim of what is happening in the real world.

Going to Hungary wasn’t cheap. The people who went bought their match tickets and booked their flights and hotels when it was known we could be knocked out. I heard one fella kicking off on Rafa and the team. I soon shut him up and was thanked by everyone around me – including the fella’s mates. But sadly, these people aren’t phoning Talk Shite and Sly Sports immeadiately after the game. They also aren’t given a platform to counter the things the idiot pundits say. And they have the nerve to say they are speaking for all true LFC fans.

So I will do my best to shut up about them and ignore there ill informed nonsense. But believe me, this isn’t some problem that can be just ignored because it is of little consequence. These morons could derail this club once and for all. What then? Well, like I’ve said many times, most of them will just resurface in Man U and Chelsea sites probably laughing at what became of the once great LFC.

An Lin, I think most of us agree that NGog shouldn’t be doing the job he is doing yet. There’s a difference between that and discounting the kid. I can’t speak for Gaz, but I’ve spoken to you at length about it and I haven’t got personal or used any harsh language to you.

But the fact is, NGog is doing far better than should be expected of the lad. He’s equaling and even out scoring the likes of Anelka, Berbatov, Owen and Arshavin. Not bad for a 20 year old kid who was bought for a million quid in the hope he might develop. And surely we should all be supporting him in his efforts, and pointing any blame in the direction of the people who have made this situation.

An Linn, I’m not calling you or anyone else a cunt but if you claim to be such a prolific supporter then you would cut the team some slack.
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I’ll pose this to you, your at home working on your house, while your doing this your missus is standing there watching your work. She continually snipes, “that will never work, this is shit, get someone in who knows what their doing, your going to fuck that up good a proper.”
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Finally in desperation, as your doing the very best you can, you turn around and snipe back. “You do the fucking job then, if your better that me, you do the fucking thing.”
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She then yells back. I know fuck all about the job.” She walks of muttering why not get someone who actually knows what their doing.
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Meanwhile you stand there knowing you can’t afford someone who is an expert, you also know your not a carpenter, electrician or plumber, your a handyman with limited funds.
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What you need is your wife to come back outside and tell you, “Darling your doing a wonderful job, can I help you in anyway.”
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He says, “Yes fuck off.” Well you get my drift.
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I here what your saying but when its over and over again it becomes grating. I too have from time to time given both Rafa and the team shite but overall I’ve tried to remain positive in a difficult time for the club.
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So as a husband trying to be a handyman “Fuck Off.” However keep posting your opinions.

Smith When you posted @196
” On top of that , you along with the rest of the “unemployment benefit” brigade think that making lame statements backed by even more luaghable excuses and justifications makes you a “true” fan ”
What exactly did you mean by that ? You cheeky bastard .

There is very little constructive debate between the Rafa doubters and fans who are backing Rafa. Personally I think there is just too much ignorance on the part of the Rafa doubters at the moment. When you argue a point they seem unable to come back with anything that makes any sense. The argument then degenerates into petty arguments.

I would like someone to give me a convincing argument that a different manager could guarantee a top 4 finish every season with at least 5 other clubs outspending us massively in every transfer window.

Only Arsenal have operated at a similar budget to us since Rafa’s arrival. Note Wenger has not done any better than Rafa since 2004. They have struggled to finish in the top 4 themselves in a couple of recent seasons and that was before Spurs were spending over £40m every transfer window and Man City were spending hundreds of millions.

Ultimately the evidence suggests that with no money you get no honey. Yet people still for some reason believe we should be at least getting into the top 4.

If we continue to be outspent like we have been in the last 2 transfer windows by the likes of Spurs and City then we’ll be in deep shit. Whoever doesn’t grasp this concept isn’t worth arguing with.

I’m going to bed.

Fuck me – there are some real morons in the world…and they just wont go away…

Theres a fucking world of difference between Fowler and Owen and NGog…and if you are so fucking thick as to not be able to determine that then you are a complete moron…

Fowler and Owen were world class and had the talent to shoulder the burden at 18 or 20…NGog isnt (surprise surprise – not every player in the premier league is world class. And I believe we have explained about 1 billion times why we cant afford to have a team full of world class players plus a bench full of world class players plus a reserve side full of world class players. Also no team has that. Why – because world class players dont wont to sit on a bench or play in the reserves – fuck it – Crouch left because he didnt want to sit on a bench and hes not world class)…so to expect him to be able to is ridiculous – the fact that he is doing quite a good job of it just shows what a good mentality he has…

Seriously – why does that even need to be explained…why are we constantly surrounded by idiots whose mental faculties are so impaired they cant even grasp simple logic and engage in some straight forward reasoning…

I despair for humanity if this is the level of intelligence of the next generation…

hilarious!!

the “benefit” brigade thinks that Ngog is a deadly striker!! he’s probably the poorest forward in any of the teams comprising the current top half of the table .

i mean seriously!! aren’t some things just obvious???

Jaysus lads nearly had a decent footy discussion going there!

Thanks for the blog Gerry

I see the auld ‘Oasis’ of Kopblog is being polluted by shite again.

Here’s some words of wisdom from Nando

“When the club has needed to be strong it always has been. Now is the time for everybody to stick together from the manager right down to the lowliest member of staff because above all else we want to make our wonderful fans happy with our performances and results.

“We must be united to finish as high as possible in the Premier League. I am convinced that we will end up in the top four. We also have high hopes for the FA Cup and the Europa League. At this time, this tournament has become a goal for the club.

Keep up the good fight lads and roll on Everton

Over and out

Dougle, Roarin, LB and others, you are correct.

There is no point in talking to cretins like this. But I have to say one last thing…. Yes Smith. Something’s really are blatantly obvious… you being a moronic arsehole is one of them.

When the benefit brigade insult started I was waiting for the Scousers are all thieves bit next. As I think that’s about your mental capacity and amount of loyalty.

The NGog debate went on all day. People gave their opinion and made it plain what they thought. You come back saying the doleites think he is world class. These are truly the actions of a disloyal moron, and I have less than contempt for the likes of you. Tatty bye.

On to the footy and the state of our club/team… I know no one else can ever have seen such a situation at LFC before, because I certainly haven’t. But I’d actually be happy to be having this season if I thought it would help remove the tumors that are attached the club… The owners and the morons that have joined our “Support” in the last few years.

The irony of it is, it was the success we have had that has drawn them – into the boardroom, onto phone ins, internet and even into the stands. But despite the lack of money and support we are still in a position to finish this season off well.

At first I couldn’t believe we had started it so badly but as it has drawn on it’s became easy to see why this happening. I’ve got to go cash my giro and do a bit of shoplifting to pay for my heroin habit, so I’ll just concentrate on one area of the pitch…

Look at what’s happened to our left flank this season. We have probably the most cover in this area, and out of fairness to the anti-Rafa brigade I am using this area as this is where Rafa could be most heavily critiscised.

In the 2 positions on that flank we have Insua, Aurelio, Babel, Dosenna, Riera, and Yossi that could be called first choice players. We also have a few other kids that can play there. But I’ll stick with the senior pros, even though Insua could still be classed as a kid. So…

Insua… dramatic loss of form. Why? The extra bulk might explain part of it. But a 20 year old lad playing in a defence that’s leaking goals and unable to help him out would be my explanation. And don’t forget, he’s also had his injuries this season. Of course this will be seen as an excuse by those who won’t see, but it’s very plain to see the lad is struggling and should be out of the team at the moment. But a kid of that talent doesn’t become shite overnight. It’s a heavy burden he is carrying, as Rafa obviously wants the lad to attack aswell as defend. No wonder he is getting exposed at times when the senior players aren’t doing their own jobs nevermind giving him that extra bit of cover.

Dosenna… a Rafa mistake? Yes. But then who would have thought that an Italian international full back wouldn’t be able to defend. Would still probably be a better option than Insua at the moment, but has also been injured. And although he can get up the flank and offer support and good crosses, he’s a liability at the back. Would have been unloaded but Rafa had realised he wouldn’t get any money for reinforcements so kept him. Probably just as an act of defiance to the owners. But at 7 million quid for an international fullback/wing half hardly a huge waste. And I’d still say, give the lad a few games to relive the pressure on Insua, but then I don’t have all the info… how bad was his injury, is he fully healed, is he really that shit that Rafa has given up on him. Looks like the last one. So in fairness a waste of 7 million quid.

Aurelio: should be playing left back right now. A classy footballer who can still give us an attacking option aswell as do his defensive duties. Set piece delivery alone should have him in the team at a time like this when we are struggling in open play. Brought to the club on a free, but sadly made of glass. Still, my answer to left back problems right now, if we can get him fully fit and keep him fit. I won’t hold my breath on that though.

Left half/wing…
Babel: To my mind, Rafa’s worst ever buy. Not an LFC player in any shape or form, should be shipped out at first opportunity. Might seem a bit harsh, but the lad is clearly unhappy. And in hindsight should have never came to the club. Lacks the mentality Rafa wants in players. Not his fault. Rafa should have taken longer to find these things out. But one of the few transfers where Rafa was able to act quickly and grabbed him before United or Arsenal – who both wanted him. Why were most top clubs in Europe looking at the lad… he’d looked like a world beater for Hollands under 21′s, which I think panicked Rafa into shelling out for him while he could get him at that price. It was only going to rise had he waited. So, a shame it hasn’t worked for the player or the team, but too much water under the bridge now. Should just be shipped out even though we’ll take a loss that we can’t really afford. Waste of 11.5 million. I my book, Rafa’s worse but still understandable transfer mistake.

Yossi: Gem of a player. Great spot by Rafa. Wonderful mentality as well as skill. Sadly been fragile this season. £5 million… an absolute steal.

Riera: Season decimated by injury. Not everyone’s cup of tea but finally brought some balance to our left wing. A player who had already been written of in English football, who was starting to really show his worth and becoming a regular in probably the best international team in world football. At £8 million an absolute steal by Rafa.

So, after a season where our left flank was finally made into a decent unit and started to finally push us back towards the perch, it has been decimated by injury, loss of form and confidence – all things that aren’t permanent. And the others should just be sold even if it is swallowed up by the debt. Keeping unhappy players about only rots away at the squad solidarity.

But there will be no quick fix. No David Silva or the likes riding into save the day – no matter who the manager is. And fact is, due to lack of real investment we weren’t allowed to buy the top targets, and so it took Rafa quite sometime to upgrade from what we had when he arrived – Traore, Kewell, Risse.

The players he upgraded to have cost: Insua, arrived on 18 month loan, eventually made permanent for £100,000. Aurelio: free. Dosenna: 7 million. Babel: £11.5 million. Bennayoun: £5 million. Riera: £7 million…

They’re all official figures, that total – 30.6 million. A good investment but hardly breaking the bank – especially when you consider what other teams have spent and the fact that Rafa has always sold on at a profit. So therefore, recrued most outlay over the seasons and Bennayoun alone could now be sold for at least half of that outlay.

In fact, it’s only the money that Rafa has brought in through our CL runs and top 4 runs that has allowed us to even spend that amount.

And I also printed all Rafa’s expenditures in here not long ago. There is no manager that than can compare on that front… and yes. That includes Wenger when everything is taken into consideration.

But in fairness we are probably a bit heavy in personel but short in quality on the left flank. Could Rafa have solved that by just paying 15 million for a fullback and a winger/wing half. Maybe. But looking at this season, would that have been enough cover… obviously not.

And you could basically do the same with every position on the pitch… NGog having to cover for Torres. When we have a manager who – in Torres and Drogba – found the 2 best center forwards in England, possible the world. And that alone is proof that it all boils done to the same single thing really – a lack of investment for real quality which then leaves the squad short even in the position where we have the most numbers.

Which would be a problem at any time, but when you think we have had as many as 10 senior pros injured at the same time… well, what more can I say.

So, I’ll stop at this… if there’s another manager in world football who can do a better job, while being completely undermined in the boardroom and constantly scrutinised and victimised in the press/media – show him to me and or go and get him in quick.

For all those who don’t have enuff time or capacity to read the above 100 comments of drivel.

EXTRACTS FROM THE AUTOBIOGRAPHY:BRONTOSAURUS’ MEMOIRS

-Written by Fatty

Just going to clear a couple of things up:

Gaz and LB – Just becase I dont think somebodies not good enough doesn’t mean I don’t support Rafa

Kiwi Mark – Well you just kind of proved my point – Fowler and Owen were good enough to lead the team at 20, Ngog is not

FS- Yes I know and I appreciate that you took the time out to state why you think I was wrong – without resorting to childish name calling – and I took on board what you are were saying and maybe your right maybe I’m being to harsh on him

but I have noticed a worrying thing happening on here is that if somebody posts a critisism they are instantly branded a Rafa hater

No An Lin mate. I think a couple of insults got hurled your way because the debate/argument had gone in that direction. I don’t think anyone has branded you in the same bunch as the above knobheads.

I’ve seen this many times in here. They come and then go when proved stupid. I was actually just having a conversation with you that I though proved the predicament Rafa/the club are in.

You are right. NGog should not be doing the job his is. But who’s fault is that? And the fact is, the kid is making a real go of it. Like I said, if he was playing for the Mancs or the Arse, the papers would be full of the usual wonderkid stuff. But he’s done a decent job and can only benefit from this run as long as knobheads don’t get on his back. I only made the point in the first place as there are bellends about who are actually moaning about the goals he is scoring.

Sort of shows the mentality we are up against.

An Lin, I’ve got to go but here’s the thing… Lucas, NGog and Insua are all kids still learning their trade. If we had money they wouldn’t be in the team week in week out carrying such a heavy burden. Thankfully the lads seem to be made out of stern stuff and are taking all the critiscism from the media and our wonderful support on the chin. If they stay strong, they will grow from this experience. But surely as supporters it is our job to understand why the lad’s are in this position and support them through these very hard times.

HA! And pigs will fly out of my arse as I cash my giro!

Tatty bye for now.

FS – I’ll have to agree with you on that we shouldn’t be in this position in the first place – actually I think Rafa’s done really well in the market considering the funds he’s had.

Back to your earlier point about the left wing – A bit worried about the injuries alright but I think when we have the players back we dont look to bad on that side.

However on the right wing I think we’re a bit short – No real back up for Kuyt – Benny maybe, but I think he should start on the left
Babel had a good game there once in a CL game – but I don’t think we’ll be seeing him for much longer

FS, the best thing to do with the dickheads in here really is to just ignore them. Paying any attention to their blinkered comments is just what they want – They are wind up merchants, pure and simple. Don’t let them get to you. Don’t bite just ignore them.

I actually thought Ngog has looked quite impressive of late. Obviously at 20 he is no Fowler, Owen or Rooney when they were 20. But the lad looks as if he has a good future ahead of him. In the last 20 mins or so the other night he struggled to hold the ball up and lost possession a number of times. Before that however he held the ball up very well and looked our most dangerous player.

Good points made by FS regarding the left flank. Definitely an area of the pitch where Rafa made mistakes in the transfer market in my opinion. In Dossena and Babel we have 2 players who combined cost £18.5m and both at the moment are so poor we’d struggle to give them away. I think Babel needs to be gotten rid of as soon as possible because I don’t believe he’ll ever put in good performances for us. It’s too late to turn things around now. He is unhappy and the confidence is rock bottom. He needs a move. I don’t think Rafa handled him correctly. In 2 and a half years he’s never played 3 games in a row. To spend £11.5m on a kid with huge potential and not EVER give him a run of games is very confusing. I thought he played well in his first season but never got a run of starts and at the beginning of last season there were games where he looked up for it and played well but was then left out of the squad the following week. Slowly but surely his self belief and confidence has gone down the drain. Rafa has to take a large chunk of responsibility for that because when he arrived he looked confident and spritely. It’s not as if he was shite on his arrival. Other players such as Kuyt and Lucas who have performed poorly in the past on a consistent basis have been backed and given games. Babel has never been afforded the same backing.

Dossena has been a nightmare and I am amazed he has been as poor as he has been.

I’d say Aurellio and Benny is the best option on the left at the moment. When they are fit that is.

dont know if you guys are following the story with whats happening to our potential saviours – the good folks in Dubai. Major financial crisis there. Time to send SOS signals elsewhere.

YNWA

Actually thinking back on my last post – what do you all think of this team

Reina
Johnston Carra Agger Aurelio
Masch Lucas
Gerrard Aquilani Benny
Torres

I think the interpaly between the top four could be something to behold with Auelio and Johnston bombing up the wings and Masch and Lucas holding the midfield and covering the full backs

An Lin, I have always had a problem with the Masch and Lucas partnership. I’d like to see a fully fit Aquilani with Masch in midfield. In tight games where the wingers and strikers get very little space we need creativity from the middle of the park. Sure there are a few games where we’ve slaughtered sides with Masch and Lucas there but for me on a week to week basis they don’t cut it as a partnership.

FS, you said that Rafa is the best manager since Sir Bob.What about KK and JF?.Ngog has a very decent goals per min ratio, I would like to see him paired wuth Torro.Playing Lucas and Masher together doesn’t work, time for Aqiliani to play or face the same fate as R. Keane.We can’t afford any more passengers.

LB – But Gerrard, Aquilani or Benny can drop pick it up in the middle and then have the other three in front of them to work something.

For all Aquilani’s skill I never heard of him being a type of palyer to get stuck in with the tackles

An Lin, Alonso didn’t get stuck into tackles but still did alright next to Masch. I think we need someone more clever with the ball in a deeper position. What tends to happen is Gerrard and Benny have to drop too deep to get the 5 yard pass from Lucas or Masch they are then miles away from Torres.

The tempo of the passing is important. I think Masch and Lucas are often guilty of taking too long to play a pass. Then when they do its sideways or backwards.

Lb – in fairness to Alonso he did the graft when he had to

Agree with you though on the dropping back problem but with that formation there is still a link to Torres unless all of them drop back

Yeah the ball could be moving quicker – I think though that Lucas doesn’t want to try the long passes incase people start getting on his back so he just plays it safe

Another problem with Lucas and Masch is that when they pass it they dont move to a better postion to receive it again – keeping up the momentum. Kuyt suffers from this aswell.

I think though with that formation there would be enough people to cover for Lucas and Masch’s failings

Rafa still hasn’t bought a decent right sided midfielder!.

Alonso did the graft yeah of course. He intercepted balls and his positioning cut out a lot of attacks. I’m hoping Aquilani will have the same instincts.

I don’t really like Gerrard staying on one side of the pitch. The position behind Torres allows him more freedom. It also means he won’t be chasing a fullback towards his own goal which often happens with wide attacking players. I believe Rafa signed Aquilani as a link between Masch and Gerrard. I am looking forward to see how that pans out.

With everyone fit my team would be:

Reina
Johnson, Carra, Agger, Aurelio
Masch, Aquilani
Kuyt, Gerrard, Benny
Torres

If Kuyt’s form continues to be poor you could put Benny on the right and Riera on the left.

Ah but Gerrard wouldn’t have to stay on the right, the positions are interchangeable between the three,

Chasing the fullback is Lucas or Masch’s job and if they are out of position in the middle any of the three can drop back,

So when you defending you can have a five man midfield but when you attacking you have a four pronged attack

Burerman please continue…………

Over

Smith, just out of pure interest which team in the EPL do you support. I’d be interested to know just so I could check out their blogs and see what you post about them.
.
An Linn, I never said you hated Rafa, just asked you support the team more, including the 1 million pound young lad who smiles his way around the EPL, giving all he has, all the time knowing he’s cactus once Torres gets fit.
.
Thanks fuck he was able to lift the ball over the City players head, which then allowed Benny to score. thank fuck he managed to skin players and get into the box the week before, then fuck he managed a tap in just this week, what a million pounds.
.
I’m realistic, as no doubt he is, but he’s wearing a red shirt, I’m not and unlike Voronin and others he’s showing pride and determination. So why shouldn’t I show support. Accept my opology if you think I was calling you a cunt, but I wasn’t. A COAT is in relation to the situation not the person. Currently the situation at LFC is a cunt of the thing.
.
However kids don’t play better with people on their back, thats’s basic football, I guess you have played before.

Gaz – no bother my fault I took you up wrong

The City goal sums up really my problem with him excellent piece of skill to lift it over the city’s player’s head but then what happened he missed the goal completley.

But as you and FS say maybe I am being to harsh on him and no one more than me hopes that he proves we wrong on Sunday

There’s something I really want to post but I’ll save it for later, as I think it deserves to be thought about on it’s own and here’s my two cents on the current debate….

When all our players are fit and ready to go we will be a different team. As I keep saying, I think we have a nucleus of 15/16 players that are a match for anyone. Of course we probably won’t ever see them all fit at one time, but in the normal course of things we should be able to call on 13/14 of them for any given game and then the kids and bit part players can come in.

That would be enough for Rafa to put his plans into action. And you would see the sort of interchangable line ups and different formations that we seen at the end of last season.

It used to be called Total Football. But, to use Rafa’s words, he’d use all the possibilities such a squad will offer and he will tailor it the situation at hand.

Example: some times you would see both Masch and Lucas with Aquilani further up the feild, in the sort of diamond formation we used at Portsmouth last season. But sometimes Aquilani will fall further back and we will probably change into a 4,4,2 with Mascher covering the defence and Aquilani providing the link up.

I could go on. There’s far more options such a squad provides. But it’s clearly what Rafa has been trying to build since his arrival… a Valencia type machine that can adapt to all situations. It will also mean players can be rested and ahhhh…. rotated.

To me it’s pretty obvious what Rafa has been building towards. It’s how he wants to operate. He has made mistakes along the way – in the transfer market and on the pitch. But who doesn’t?

The problem is, unlike other top managers, he has very little margin of error. And not having the finance available to others, it’s took him 5 season to go from Finnan to Johnson… a fine attacking fullback and a vital cog in the sort of machine Rafa wants to build. And that is one vital position in his scheme. Like I said earlier, it’s been the same problem in every position… upgrading, replacing, slowly building in quality, but unable to just go out and splash mega millions while being expected to compete with teams that can.

Which sort of brings me to BM’s question…

What I actually said was Rafa is the best manager we have had since Paisley but of all Liverpool manager’s in the last 50 years he has the most difficult job since Shankly.

I posted quite a few times on the similarities between Shankly and Rafa, and the situation they both faced. There really is many of them, but I shouldn’t have to go back through them all again though. It’s the sort of thing that should be common knowledge amongst supporters.

But the fact is – because of the ownership/ financial situation, the hype, the expectation and lack of patientce – out of the 2 managers Rafa is actually faced with far more problems than Shankly was.

And on top of having to do the job while practically hamstrung by the owners, he is also dealing with great hostility from the English media and the ever increasing amount of fans that are believing their poison. And yes. I dread to keep repeating that but it is fact.

Shankly was of a nature/personality that ensured a great relationship with the media and the fans. But never in all my life have I seen a man treated how Rafa is. All fact, proves he is a thoroughly decent family man with a great record of success. But to listen/read/watch the English/British media you’d think he’d eaten his way through an orphanage of disabled children. And all this while fellas with no scruples or any real success to their name are lauded to the hilt.

Obviously some people can’t see any of this, so it’s a waste of time and effort. And those who can see it, don’t need telling. But later when I’m not busy, I’m going to post something that anyone with any sort of interest in or feeling for LFC should read and consider before demanding a change in the management.

bhavster – I think thats Dubai World that are in trouble – don’t think they’re affiliated with DIC

but thats the problem with ME companies all their wealth stems directly or indirectly from Oil and they are tied into the dollar – so if the oil prices drop and so does the dollar then these companies can be in trouble

I think they Dubai the country and both DIC and Dubai world are in deep shit…
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/article6905555.ece

But in all truth, I’d given up on any new owners coming in in the short term. And I reckon we are stuck with H&G for the foreseeable future. And here’s what I was warning about in changing the management at this time…

The club closest to the mess we are in is Leeds. Of course it’s not the exact same situation, but there’s loads of similarities in the 2 clubs situation. So, I done a bit of rooting round the web and came across this. Have a read and see what you think…

O’Leary’s Leeds never finished outside of the top five, but following their defeat in the UEFA Champions League 2001 semi-final against Valencia their fortunes began to change.

Under chairman Peter Ridsdale, Leeds had taken out large loans against the prospect of the share of the TV rights and sponsorship revenues that come with UEFA Champions League qualification and any subsequent progress in the competition.[15]

However, Leeds narrowly failed to qualify for the Champions League, and as a consequence did not receive enough income to repay the loans.

The first indication that the club was in financial trouble was the sale of Rio Ferdinand to Manchester United for approximately £30 million. Ridsdale and O’Leary publicly fell out over the sale, and O’Leary was sacked and replaced by former England manager Terry Venables.

Leeds performed badly under Venables, and other players were sold to repay the loans, including Jonathan Woodgate whom Ridsdale had promised Venables would not be sold. Other star players such as Robbie Keane, Alan Smith, Harry Kewell and youth products James Milner and Aaron Lennon were also sold over time.

Tensions mounted between the pair, eventually resulting in the sacking of Venables, who was replaced by Peter Reid. By this time Leeds were in danger of relegation, but Reid saved Leeds from the drop in the penultimate game of the season.

During this time Ridsdale had resigned from the Leeds board, and was replaced by existing non-executive director Professor John McKenzie.

An unsuccessful start to the 2003–04 season saw Peter Reid dismissed, and head coach Eddie Gray took over as caretaker manager until the end of the season.

Gerald Krasner, an insolvency specialist, led a consortium of local businessmen which took over Leeds and under his chairmanship oversaw the sale of the clubs’ assets, including senior and emerging youth players of any value.

Gray was largely blameless for the performance of the team during the 2003–04 season as the majority of the squad was sold out from underneath him and despite his best efforts, Leeds were relegated after 14 years in the top flight.

Following relegation, Gray’s reign as caretaker manager was terminated, and assistant manager Kevin Blackwell was appointed manager. Most of the remaining players were sold or released on free transfers to further reduce the wage bill.

Leeds were eventually forced to sell both their training ground, for £4.2 million,[16] and their stadium[17] in the autumn of 2004

**********************************************
Now of course there’s no guarantee that is what would happen at LFC. But this is the nearest example we have in this country and in recent times. It’s also pretty much how Hicks has operated his other “sporting franchises” in the Americas. And to my mind it’s pretty much the situation we would be most likely to see unfold if Rafa is sacked or walks…
Wanker, boss like Terry Venables – loved by the media and idiotic fans, but a spiv in all reality with very little success under his belt – will be hired.

Rafa would walk into Real Madrid within days. Be given a huge budget and probably set about raiding cash stripped LFC. The likes of Torres, Reina, Masch and Gerrard would be approached and could easily leave.

Asset/Player stripped, the team would plummet. Here’s Leeds league positions as this all unfolded…

1998 – 5th
1999 – 4th
2000 – 3rd
2001 – 4th
2002 – 5th
2003 – 15th
2004 – DOWN

You can join the dots yourselves. And if none of that serves as cautionary tale to those who refuse to see the plight we are in, I don’t know what ever will and I completely give up.

I was gonna head out to the cinema this evening and watch this new horror film,no need now thanks to FS that scared the living fuck outta me. Seriously though i no thats worst case scenario but like i said before we our on a knife edge. we could easily come through this an still finish this season successfully and then be reading comments in here from people saying “we’re lfc we would never have done a leeds” though right now like history has proved we have no god given right to remain a powerhouse of english football and if our cycle of being a big club is gonna come to an end,then we could find ourselves being laughed at by little bastard man city supporters who can’t believe we were once a big club.

The thought of watching man scum wins things while we crumble is a thought that keeps me awake at night i would seriously consider going over to manchester…….. I think its best i don’t finish this sentence but im sure most of you no where its going.

FS Last season you gave me a great deal of reassurance when we finished the season playing easily our best footy in years. You wrote many great posts about how the tide was turning and how a new cycle was beginning that mirrored the shankly years. Because of your knowledge of the club it really did make me think we would lift the title this year. do you still think (all current things considered) that we can have a successful period with H&G running shop?

With G&H in charge things will obviously remain very difficult. New investors are being put off by the clubs £250m debt, and can we blame them?

H&G have kept screwing the club long after the Cows came home and we are stuck with the fuckers unless somehow from somewhere some mega, mega rich Sheik who just happens to be an LFC fanatic crawls out from the woodwork.

Christian Purslow said that the club only ever budget for getting to the first knockout round of the CL, and that if we were to play just 3 Europa Cup games at home we will equal the money we would of got for getting through our group.

encouraging outlook from the Chief Exec, but obviously he is speaking with his glass half full. If you look at it from the other angle we have lost out on many millions in revenue.

When you consider the huge debt that the club is now saddled with it’s hard to be too excited about the future, all we as supporters can do is look to the next game. Having a whipround for the club could prove to be a futile excercise. Rogan Taylor’s proposal of fans buying the club was a nice idea but in reality was it ever going to happen?

Here’s to 3 points at Goodison.

good point there steve. I seen mr purslow’s interview,i have to say i liked the guy and think he could be quite useful for us. Then again i was happy when H&G came on board so i’ll guess time will tell.

hopefully we spank everton and to be honest i didn’t realise they went down 3-2 to hull on wednesday. I no form goes out the window and all with derby games but we really should be beating them.

Let’s hope so roarin. Everton staged a bit of a comeback after going 3-0 down to Hull. It’s funny how many games like that finish up 3-2.

I actually fancy Hull to turn over Man.City this weekend.

Indeed Purslow is making all the right noises at the moment, saying Rafa has his full backing and all that. Mind you he’d have to go some to be a worse Chief Exec than Coco the fucking clown Parry!

I don’t think bad signings are exclusive to rafa and liverpool.Slur alex’s record needs scrutiny.28m on veron ,18m on hargreaves,7m on alan smith, 6m on kleberson,14m on nani ,and 7m on forlan.This list is not exhaustive.Sometimes it does not workout.All these players are not shite.Sometimes players and clubs just don’t click.Thats football.
Stay calm and fear god YNWA

Rafamuffin I remember it been 51 million for Anderson,Nani and Hargreaves all on the same day at the beggining of the transfer period none of them have lived up to their price and as for 32 million on Berbaflop enough said.
Jin Tanah welcome to kopblog
YNWA

SMITH You should just crawl back under your rock and f*ck off .
Sula You’ll be much happier at the Chavs and so will we.
KK I’m surprised you havent already gone to the Chavs.

Hi Gerry, haven’t been in a while, but have kept reading the blogs. I’m sorry mate, I can’t agree with most of what you say in your blog this time. I can’t see how you could totally side-step criticising Rafa. And I totally disagree that “everything” comes down to the injuries.

Martin Kelly and Danny Ayala (with Ngog to an extent) are the only real green débutantes who have had to step in when called upon. But the problem with that argument is that all of them have actually done well, and have not been the cause of a goal conceded – with Ngog also knowing where the goal is.

All the other changes made in the City game were with well-rehearsed seniors: Carragher knows right-back inside-out, Babel isn’t usually missed, Skrtel is a well established senior who should know how to mark Adebeyor, and Kyrgiakos taking up the Sami-sub role – who should never have been allowed leave.

With the midfield practically unchanged all season i.e. Masch, Lucas, Kuyt and Babel/Benny, with the return of Stevie G, we could hardly be described as depleted. And anyway, we scored first after, all this upheaval.

Gerry, you have to accept that Rafa can’t get away Scott-free from criticism, no matter if he is being criticised by people we don’t like.

Debrecen are *the* worst team we’ve faced in many years (even Basiktas were better when we beat them 8-1), and we should taken that chance to annihilate a team such as them, and get confidence up. It was clear after 10mins that they were not up for it, and we should have really gone for them, as we’d nothing to lose either. In the end, they nearly equalised, but for a stuttered finish.

I’ve read fans opinions on forums say that, upon a second viewing of games, we were actually not bad – NEWS-FLASH – it shouldn’t take a second frickin viewing to find positives.

Now Gerry, you also say that, “the knee-jerk element among our supporters seem to like nothing better than a Liverpool defeat” so they can criticise the team/manager. I can assure you Gerry, criticism after five years of ‘progress’, knee-jerk is not a fair accusation, and the current form and state of play, breaks my heart.

There are a new breed of the Soccer AM generation that don’t know their arse from their elbow, but the vast majority of critical fans are old-school and fair-minded, of which, I am one.

I was okay with the summer changes at the time. Not ecstatic, but okay. Johnson for Arby, Aquilani (despite injury) for Xabi, and Zorba for Sami are all fine with me. All seem at the very least, like-for-like changes, but probable upgrades. And I thought that Nemeth (as Rafa said himself, when quizzed) would come through as support for Nando, along with Voro and Ngog. As well as Kuyt, “who can play in the striker position”, said Rafa.

Nemeth should have stayed. I don’t see how LFC benefits from him getting experience in Greece, when he could just as easily have stayed here.

Even if, the reserves came in as replacements, (which they hardly did) they should be well-versed in how our system works, zonal etc. It’s not like they floated up the Mersey on an orange-box. This is down to Rafa. I don’t know how people can stick their head in the sand and say otherwise.

Just noticed today that our defence leaked more goals than any other team in the top 10. Only 4 teams have scored more than we have, so clearly the defence is the worry. Once that is sorted, we should be good to go. It’s strange how the same players go from rock solid to the weakest link in so short a time. Of course the injuries are the main cause but it’s still very strange.

Idhawan,

I think the injuries to Carra, Skrtel (clash of heads in 1st game), Dagger (back problems) and Johnson (on and off) can explain this.

As many have put it, our defence has been shuffled around almost every game. If the injuries have settled and things get sorted out, we’ll be back…

Roarin mate, that was just worse case scenario to show what could happen. As I said, our situation and Leeds aren’t the same, but there is some alarming similarities. And if you look at how they unravelled, it doesn’t take a great leap of imagination to see how it could happen to us.

So, hopefully some people will stop and think before posting ridiculous comments at every opportunity. But I don’t think them tits even have the mental capacity to realise what they are pushing for, and no doubt they’re now just biding their time waiting for the next setback.

As for us pushing on from here, well yes. Last year I was also convinced that we could go on and win it this season. But as badly as things have turned out for us, I don’t think most people even realise we are only 8 points off second place.

A few results going our way and we are right back up there. So all isn’t complete doom and gloom, but I think it’s time people realised why we are in this situation and who is to blame for it… and it certainly isn’t Rafa.

Aiyic you’ve put forward a proper argument, not just screamed We’re Shite, Rafa Out. So, although I can’t speak for Gerry, I’m going to answer it best I can without acting as Rafa’s appologist…

Firstly you say this isn’t all down to injuries, and that’s true. There are many factors, but let’s get it straight…
You say the only real green debutantes are Kelly and Ayala and they both done well. Fair enough… but both were consequently injured within no time and haven’t been able to feature in the team since.

You then say Carra knows right back inside out. Again correct. And that’s exactly why he refused to play it last season at Middlesborough. Which then lead to possibly the worst performance of our season and all the damage being done against Skrtel down that flank. Carra got a load of stick for letting the team and Skrtel down like that. And the stick he got, the result and performance at Boro, and no other fit cover all combined to force Carra into playing that position this season.

But by the way….
It was immeadiately after that game against Boro that we went on that great run and played some wonderful football. And off the top of my head, although I might be wrong, our next 3 results were 4-1, 4-1, 5-1 against Real Madrid, The Mancs and Villa – with some of the best football seen from an LFC side in 20 years.

But it also all proved that the days of Carra playing right back are well and truly over. And if it wasn’t for such a dire emergency, he would never play it again.

As for green debutantes… Insua, Lucas and NGog may not be exactly green but they certainly shouldn’t be practically a third of a team that is going to press for the title – especially in such vital positions. But that is the situation they, Rafa and the team have been forced into. And it seems to me some support, understanding, even sympathy, should be shown by our supporters to these young lads at a time like this.

Would United do any better if they were relying on Wallbeck, Obertan and one of the Brazillian kids at full back for such a length of time. Again it’s only opinion, but I doubt it. And I only mention it as I think it wasn’t fair of you to say this situation shouldn’t make much difference to our team.

Skrtel… why has this lad suddenly forgotten how to defend? It’s honestly beyond me. But he’s clearly struggled and so it’s just opinion again from both of us as we don’t have all the info.

All I can say is, I was there to see his debut against the mighty Havant an Waterlooville and I was shocked to see him being given the run around by amatuers. I thought we’d bought a complete cart horse. But we all know what he’s capable of now, except for some mad reason, he seems to have regressed to all them bad habits, decision making, and positioning. In fact, just rank bad defending.

All I can say is, I’ve seen this in other players of his pedigree and it’s only ever a blip. He will come out of it and be fine. He’s too good not to.

I think Kyriagos has done really well when called upon, especially when you consider how he had to slot in at such short notice with no preparation. Hardly an ideal situation. But I think you should actually be grateful that Rafa had the foresight and bollax to fight H&G to get him.

This also answers two of your other points… Sami wasn’t allowed to go. He insisted upon it.

And I’m surprised that you either don’t know this or choose it to beat Rafa with. We offered the big fella a one year playing extension to his contract, with the possibility of a second and a definite place on the coaching staff if the second year didn’t materialise. Sami choose a 2 year playing contract and regular football in Germany. And I actually applaud him for it, even though it did leave us in schtuck.

As for Nemeth, he wasn’t sent to Olympiakos to gain experience. He was the make weight in the Kyriagos deal. Yes. We couldn’t even afford him. And the Greeks actually wanted El Zhar to make up the numbers but Rafa talked them into taking Nemeth as he thought El Zhar was of more use to the team as cover for Kuyt….
Then El Zhar was immeadiately injured in a freak incident and has only just made it back on to the bench. Mindboggling, infuriating, maddening. Yes. But nothing Rafa couldn’t have foreseen.

Directly qoute you here…
“With the midfield practically unchanged all season i.e. Masch, Lucas, Kuyt and Babel/Benny, with the return of Stevie G, we could hardly be described as depleted.”

True enough but how many of these players have played while injured and completely knackered with no one to step in for them? I think it’s not quite cricket to not take this into consideration…

Masch: missed quite a few games through injury and international duty, and is only just getting back to form.
Lucas: was never intended to be – and really shouldn’t be – playing such an essential role for such a length of time.
Kuyt: either completely off form or completely knackered. I can’t make up my mind on that, but it’s been impossible to rest him.
Babel: you might as well right him off.
Gerrard and Yossi have both been playing with injuries.

And I could go through the rest of your post bit by bit but the point is, although you may not be kneejerking you certainly aren’t taking all the factors into consideration.

In fact, for some reason you seem to be purposely ignoring them. Why?

You say you are old school. You say, you are fair minded. You say the vast majority of critical fans are the same.

That is not the truth… go to Anfield. Go into other websites that are only used by old school fair minded fans. You will not find the sort of critiscism you have just posted that chooses to ignore all the mitigating factors.

Don’t take that wrong though. I’m certainly not counting you amongst the idiots that have recently popped up in here or on other fan sites and phone ins.

I’ve spoken with you often enough in the past to know you aren’t one of them tits. And I wouldn’t have answered you at such length if you were one of them gobshites.

I also believe you meant it when you said… “the current form and state of play, breaks my heart.”

But could this be blinding you to the real issues and causes of this slump?

Yes we should slam the likes of Debrecen, but the team is so fragile right now both mentally and physically that we should be glad of even the scrappiest hard fought win at the moment.

And yes. I’d love us to go out and give someone a good tonking, preferablly starting with Everton. But I don’t think that is the way we’ll get out of this.

It’s been so harsh and draining, I think it will take a long hard slog of stringing together some scrappy wins, then building into a genuine run, with the quality eventually returning.

And I’m not telling you how to think, or what opinion to have. But all I can say is… inj my opinion, this is a time to hold the nerve not panic and cast blame. As I know we will come out of this. A team who performed like us last season has no choice really. We are far too good not to.

An Lin – you missed mine – NGogs they only one we have…so whilst hes not quite there yet hes about all we have…because we are so skint its unbelievable…it would be great to have a more experienced player leading the line in Torres absence…but as so many have explained before we just cant afford to pay the wages to keep that sort of player happy on the bench let alone the fee to get him in the first place…

Boy oh boy. Left this site for 48 hours and so much comments and heat comes out from it, who needs a volcanic eruption?

On Ngog’s performance, An Lin and other critics of N’gog do let me know if the 20 year old kid has done well, especially since starting only 6 times and subbed in 5, total 11 games featured vs Benayoun’s 13 or Babel’s 14 times. Additionally he is the youngest in the list I have featured below. Here are the stats for our top scorers vs selected strikers from other teams:

Player…Appearance(Subs)….Goals
Torres.. 9 (0)…………10
Benayoun…13(+6)…………5
Ngog ……6(+5)………….5
Gerrard…13(+2)………… 4
Kuyt…….19…………… 4
Babel …..5(+9)………… 3
…………………………………………
Ashavin….10(+2)…………4
Eduardo…. 9 (+5)………..1
…………………………………………
Anelka…….12(+1)……….3
Ballack……10(+1)……….3
Drogba…….`12 (+0)……..9
………………………………………….
Owen………10(+7)……….2
Rooney…….12(+0)……….7
………………………………………….
Tevez……..12(+2)………2
Adebayor……9(+0) ……..5

These statistics are there for all of us to see. I hope after this, some knee jerkers will please do check some facts before arriving at conclusions.

Of our ex-players here are their scores vs N’gog:

Player..Appearances(Subs)…Goals
Crouch…..13(+7)…………..2
Keane……12(+0)…………..6
Bellamy….10(+1)…………..5
………………………………….
Players we could be looking at:
Carlton Cole..12(+0)………..6
Hines ……..11(7)…………1
Turner……..8(+0)…………1
Cana ………12(0)…………0

And these are not counting assists.

And he says he is not ready yet to replace Torres:
……………………………………………..

Liverpool striker David Ngog is pleased to be a part of the first team, but feels it is too soon to ask him to be a direct replacement for Fernando Torres.

“Fernando is the best striker in the world, so any player would find it hard replacing him,” Ngog told the Reds’ official website.

“All I can do is play my own game and try and be myself because few players can do the things Fernando does.

“I feel tactically I can play as a lone striker, behind the striker or with another partner, so I am desperate to prove to the manager that I am ready to play in any situation.

“I believe that I have enough quality to be a good striker for the club and score many goals. But I understand that will come with time and experience.

“I am not 21 until next April so I have plenty of time to learn and I couldn’t be learning from a better manager than Rafa Benitez or a better striker than Fernando.”

Ngog also admits that Liverpool’s recent form has been poor. He is optimistic that they are on the verge of a revival though.

Here’s the take from The Times on who’s to blame for LFC’s failings:

1. The Manager..by Tony Cascarino
2. The owners…by Partick Barclays
3. The injuries..by Tony Barrett

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/liverpool/article6932657.ece?token=null&offset=0&page=1

Some really good posts gang, outside of the debris from the grenade throwers. FS 165 that is very interesting to compare the european records of the last few managers. I guess it’s called having an overview.
Gaz 213, the perfect american solution .. watch out!
Keith the late 190′s, great, reflects your age eh !
Also LB the chat about Babel and not being able to string sufficient time together on the pitch. I agree that it really looks like Babel’s confidence has been whittled away over the years.

There is more to say but my kid has just gone down for an hour so I am legging it into the post-apocalypic flooded Cork city centre with Mrs. Dougle.

I’ll be back !

Difficult to see a win if both Masher and Lucas play.2-1 perhaps, provided Torro starts.

So BM… would you throw in Aqualini against a team that is going to kick the shit out of us in a game that is being refereed by the piss poor Alan Wiley who will let them get away with it?

And who would you drop out of Masch and Lucas when Everton’s probable biggest hope of getting anything against us will be having Cahill lose his marker at set pieces?

PS: Please don’t tell me we mark zonally not man for man… Zonal marking doesn’t mean no one will have the responsibility of picking up Cahill or any one else.

The Oracle has spoken FS. No further comment is necessary.

BTW, I’ve just read the link from Knight. FFS, Cascarino is a muppet. Here are two extracts to give you all a taster:

Lack of money is a weak excuse. Benítez inherited a very good team from Gérard Houllier, not one that needed radical transformation. Despite the supposed shortage of funds, he was able to bring in a world-class player such as Fernando Torres.

and

He became so fond of the idea of Steven Gerrard playing behind Torres that he neglected to buy a decent striker as a back-up to the Spain forward. And yet, in Peter Crouch and Robbie Keane, he had two — both sold for no good reason.

Laughable! Thank fuck that this guy has no Irish heritage.

I see that Rafa has given a bit of a joust to Jamie Redknapp.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/everton/article6935630.ece

Also, it will be very interesting to see how the Arse do now, considering that they have lost RVP for 4-5 months.

Feckin internationals again. IMHO, this will stick a considerable spanner in Wenger’s works.

Let’s compare and contrast over the next few months to see what happens.

That nonsense from Cascarino is shocking. I know this kind of stuff is seen and heard in the media every single day, but how on earth The Times can allow such fabrication of the truth to be published is beyond me. It’s the same story with that Henry cheat goal graphics they published. A complete falsehood to imply the referee wasn’t to blame.

Lurgankop and Sachem, Thanks for commenting on Cascarino’s thoughts. I thought I should stay silent and see what happens. Frankly, who he wrote nearly made me vomit.
So that you know who he is, please read the following info:
“Anthony Guy (“Tony”) Cascarino (born 1 September 1962 in St Paul’s Cray, Orpington, Kent, England) is a former association football player. He made his name as a striker for various British and French football clubs and for the Republic of Ireland national football team.

Since retirement, he has presented on TalkSPORT radio and written for both The Times and Ireland’s Hot Press magazine.”

Lurgankop, he therefore has Irish heritage…

I think that he had an Irish Wolfhound once knight.

Let’s just say at that time there was a joke going about that the FAI stood for ‘Find Another Irishman’.

I’ve got to shoot off now but I’m sure that one of the lads will explain it.

Knight mate, Lurgan is Irish. But he’s wrong. The nearest Cascarino ever got to having any Irish in him was the Old Paddy he’d been swigging before writing that shite.

Let’s face it, this sort of drivel is constant. But thankfully I’ve had me grandaughter all day so haven’t been able to read the papers, watch Sly or listen to TalkShite.

Thank the good lord for small mercies. I believe the lot of them have really being trouncing us and Rafa all day. Apparently Charlie Nicholas said on Sly Sport “News” “Liverpool have had the least injuries of all the teams in the top ten, and the only real major player they have lost for any amount of time is Torres!”

And apparently the bitter Scottish prick said that and loads more laughable shite, all with a straight face.

I didn’t even read the Cascarino piece. I’m going to start trying to do that with all the media – ignore it. Obviously from the bit you lads have qouted it’s just another waste of some perfectly good ink and paper. And I can see from the qoutes posted, that the man knows fuck all about what he’s paid for and hasn’t done a moment’s research.

Oh well… just the usual media shite, but I’m sure there’s a few of our bretheren that will qoute it as gospel truth.

I agree with Burgerman. 1 assist with a 3rd of the season gone is a damning statistic on our midfield. My team would be: pepe, johnson, carra, dagger, insua, kyut (barely), masch, stevie, aurelio, benni and ngog. If I knew for sure riera was fit kyut would be out. We wanna improve? Then we gotta stop playing players who arent eh…playing. Its time to start getting fucken ruthless and for everyman to stand up and be counted including rafa. No better game than the derby.

To be honest Burgerman with the way our defense is playingits too much of a risk to drop Lucas and play Aquilani. Even when fully fit I don’t think he’s going to offer the same kind of protection Lucas or even Alonso did so don’t even know how he’ll fit in at with the current formation, hes more like someone like Rosicky or Fabregas who darts about rather than sitting there.

Medium term Rafa’s probably going to need to have a fiddle and change the system to suit him. Gerrard back as a right midfielder with benayoun as a link man and reira on the left would be the best thing I can see.

Shock horror, surprise, surprise… Rather than trust the man who’s in charge and knows exactly how each player is feeling and performing in training, Digger agrees with the man who wanted to play Nemeth even though he’s in Greece, wanted to sign Larson even though he’s a semi-cripple in his dotage, and know wants to play a fella that’s been eased back after 6 months injured against Golem’s Army of Darkness in the black hole cauldron of Woodison.

The mind would boggle, but funny enough I’m not surprised in the slightest.

It appears you’re approaching your dotage yourself bless you. Not to worry, ask your grandaughter to help you. Got her? Right, good. Now, ask her to point out where in Diggers post he advocates starting Aquilani and then ask her to read out Diggers preferred starting line up. Still with us? Good. Now ask her if Digger mentions Aquilani anywhere in his post. Right, now that we’ve established all that we can assume a logical explanation for #273 will follow. Well, we can only hope I suppose.

Ohhhh, my bad, Digger man, my bad!

Hey, no problem, everybody makes mistakes.

Yeah and can even make them when reading 2 straight forward posts eh…

But not too worry hip lad, seeing both have gone completely over yor head just carry on posting in coooool hip vallleeee girl speak. At least then us old codgers can get a laugh out some of this nonsense

Get some sleep Fatty, have a good night mate.

Thanks for the advice. At my advanced age, I just can’t take any of this anymore. Now if I could just find me glasses to find where me zimmer is, so I can get off this bloody camode, into me Thora Hird stair lift and into my easy lift bed with the hospital railings.

Night night. Duuuuuude!

Hey FS, fair play for addressing my points. I’m not sure if you’re being sarcastic when you say to me, “You then say Carra knows right back inside out. Again correct. And that’s exactly why he refused to play it last season at Middlesborough.” But…Carragher played RB against United for us, and was monster, didn’t play there against Boro, and we were poor. what point are you making. Not to mention Carra taking over from Marcus Babbel for two seasons in that role – switching from LB.

So it is a groundless argument to say that – we weren’t ourselves, and one reason is that Carra played RB.

What blame would you put at Rafa’s door for our current predicament? Surely you don’t believe he’s *completely* blameless.

BTW, regarding my saying that Sami was “allowed” to leave – which was really a tiny side-issue, and I don’t want to “beat” Rafa at all – what I meant was that he should have been coaxed, convinced, coerced or tortured…whatever. We should not have ‘allowed’ him to go. I know full well he wanted to leave when not promised more games, but we should have gotten down on bended knee for him to stay. It wouldn’t have taken that much to make him stay. But him leaving isn’t any reason why we’re doing so badly, it’s a side issue, as Kyrgiakos is grand.

Knight, Cascarino found out he didn’t strictly qualify as ‘Irish’, three whole years before he retired from international football. And it then only came out five years after that, when is book came out. So, not the most honest chap, by his own admission.

Kiwi Mark – Agree with you completely on the sorry position we find ourselves in

Knight – Heres hoping Ngog proves me wrong tomorrow

aiyic, maybe I didn’t say it plain enough, but I wasn’t being sarcastic…
Last season Carra flatly refused to play right back when we really needed him to do it.

And yes, he done that exactly because he does know the position inside out, and he knows he can’t play it anymore. And that’s why he didn’t play it against Boro… he knew full well he was too old, too slow and would get roasted by Downing.

But Skrtel then voluntered to play it as we had no other player in the squad that could. And he ended up getting the roasting off Downing because – he can’t play it at all and, in fact, doesn’t understand the position or know how to play in it.

Believe me, Carra got a far worse roasting back in Liverpool than any Downing could have given him.

So rather than get roasted off the fans again, he has played it this season but only when there’s been no other player available who can play in the postion.

And even though he has done okay when forced there this season, he certainly shouldn’t play it when we have any other options. He’s well past that now mate.

As for Sami, well we did sort of beg him to stay.

Sami wanted a 2 year playing contract. We offered him a one year contract extension, with an option of a second and also a guarantee of a coaching position. We couldn’t have really given anymore.

So after weighing it all up, Sami decided to leave so he could play out his career at a decent level. Fair play to him for that.

But the fact is he left on very amicable terms. He’s been back to watch us on a few occasions. He’s defended the team and Rafa throughout this slump. And the offer is still on the table… so he may well be back in a coaching role sometime in the future.

As for Rafa’s mistakes this season, I’ve listed what I think they are on a few occasions. I’ve also listed what I think his major mistakes have been since becoming manager. And I’ll do it again, but I can’t now mate. I’ve got to go do a few things.

But I’m not ducking the issue, and I’ve no problem chatting with you about it when I have more time.

Okay. Aiyic, the reason I left my post to you at that point was this…

Part 1: ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNAcyV-TxxQ

Part 2: ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBk_8IrQQnE

Part 3: ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OklDkvQ3HVw

Part 4: ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHuJ98u6bb0

Part 5: ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FGnfdrWzB4

…I’d been emailed, asking me to view this and give my opinion on it. You need to add the h to the links.

It’s a documentary some lad has put together from a lot of different sources. It takes 47 minutes to view the lot.

After viewing it all I can say is, it’s far too lenient on the people that have caused this mess that we are in.

But having said that, I still think it answers your questions as to who is to blame for what is happening at our club. And like I always say… yes. We do have problems, but Rafael Benitez certainly isn’t the cause of them.

http://www.footballfancast.com/football-blogs/133m-net-spend-dispels-great-fallacy-rafa-benitez?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+ffc_liverpool_blogs+%28FFC_Liverpool_Blogs%29

Lurgankop, Aiyic and FS, Thanks for that explanation about Cascarino’s Irish links. But he really is crazy to have written all that nonsense. As did Terry Venables saying (in The S*n-coz it’s reported here in Malaysia)our Club was “total madness” to have signed Rafa for five years.”When Rafa signed a new five-year contract in March, he not only won the Lottery, he won the Boat Race and Grand National as well. By doing that, he says Rafa won “The lottery, The Boat Race (what the heck is that?) and the Grand National all in one”. The reason why he wrote this? “I was sacked by Barcelona for finishing second to Real Madrid two years after I won La Liga. Had I been in charge now, that would probably be considered a triumph.”

I goggled El Tel and found out his best years were 1985-1990:
1985

1985: Steers Barcelona to first Spanish League title in 11 years.

1986: Signs Gary Lineker and Mark Hughes for £5.3m. Barcelona finish second in Spanish League and reach European Cup final but lose on penalties to Steaua Bucharest.

1987:Runners-up in Spanish League again. Sacked in September. Appointed Tottenham manager in October.

1988:Signs Paul Gascoigne for £2m. Spurs 13th in First Division.

1989:Sells Chris Waddle to Marseille for £4.25m and signs Lineker again. Spurs finish sixth.

1990:Spurs third in First Division.

He was a flop as England Manager and as Manger elsewhere. http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2002/jul/08/newsstory.sport5

Hey An Lin – I think I have to apologise – I have re read the comments and I think I may have got the wrong end of the stick from what you were saying…so sorry about that…

I just wish the cancer that envelopes our club could be removed…

I didnt much like Texas and Texans before and our owner isnt doing much to improve their standing…

Idhawan: Interesting post. Stg80 million in 6 years. Most would have said Stg80 million (not disputed) but in five, since Rafa joined only in 2004. Average five year spend being Stg16 million, which Spurs, Newcastle, Villa and Man Shitty over some years during 2004-2009 outspends LFC yet does not have income from CL. Finishing in the top four in the PL alone nets Stg30 million. Yet Rafa is not given the funds. Except for 2005 when he went berserk, he has not uttered a single rant despite not given the funds. he just dealt with whatever money he was handed with.

Yes, the writer Tim Danson rightly defends Rafa and shares similar sentiments with the majority of us here. A pity the minority does not see the reasons and statistics to back that.

Are we all under the curse of Gillette (albeit a non-razor-type) too?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/advertising/henry-woods-federer-the-curse-of-gillette-1830663.html

Well…that just begs the question where the feck is all our income going? Cos it sure as shit isnt going back to the team or to reducing debt…

Yes I know – the thieving yanks are pocketing it – but they must be pocketing a fair amount – because we were spending more under Moores…

Kiwi Mark, Absolutely spot on Sir!

Well, I’m off up the bookies… good yankee today, Liverpool, Chelsea, Birmingham, Barcelona.

That’s probably mockered the lot of them but it will make it interesting. Can’t see Arsenal having enough for Chelsea, especially without Van Persie. Can’t see their defence stopping Drogba and Anelka.

Absolute dog fight for us today. I hate early kick offs could work in our favour today though and hopefully Everton aren’t ready to start booting us off the pitch. Expect 20 minutes of it though. I could see red cards here. Hopefully Masch holds his temper and they’re all for them.

Supposedly only doubt is Torres now, so I don’t normally do this but against them bastards I’d go…
Reina
Johnson, Carra, Agger, Aurelio

Lucas Masch

Kuyt Gerrard Yossi
NGog

Hopefully, that will be enough. A scrappy narrow win will do for me, but make no bones about it Everton will be right up for this and they won’t be shy about turning it into a dog fight. They’ll be looking to get corners and set pieces. And we need to stop giving silly ones away in dangerous areas, and start attacking the ball when it’s whipped in.

Everton have some decent headers of the ball, but someone will need to keep that little kunt Cahill out. And the team will need to be solid, but remain calm. And hopefully, we will start to play something like we can and our class will be too much for them.

Oh well, bookies and offfie.
Tatty bye.

Oh and Knight my friend… Terry Venables is one of them shite English managers that the English media absolutely love. He’s sort of like aul Tick Face, Appy Arry… nothing but a Cockney wide boy, spiv, opportunist, chancer.

He’s been caught with his hands in more tills than a Tescos check-out girl.

What a twat…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WiYO46qpe8

But then this is the sort of shite they lap up over here. Maybe Rafa should start robbing and saying things about his players like Appy Arry does… My wife could have scored that one.

And the media will start calling him a good ol’ boy and a great man manager/motivator.

Oh well, I’m off. If you’ve got time stick a h on the front of them youtube links. It’s worth a watch, even though the daft bastard has spelt Shankly wrong.

Cascarino’s mother was adopted by Irish parents and (supposedly) he was only informed of this when he had already 50 odd caps. As Aiyic stated, this came out in his book a few years later, to the outrage of the English press.

However this is of no consequence as he still qualified to play for the Rep of Ireland, even though was his Mother had been adopted. Not the first time that the press have conveniently ignored the facts to make a headline.

This is how I’ve heard/read it but the bottom line is, Irish, Finnish, Ghanaian, or whatever nationality, I just wish that he would stop spouting his shite, nearly on a daily basis, about Rafa and LFC.

As for today’s match, you can be sure that Moyes sees this as the perfect occasion to turn their season around.

I would expect some strong-arm tactics from the toffees and plenty of high balls into our box. The CB pairing will need to be strong today.

I will take a win in whatever manner it comes.

FS,

Looks like Part 1 has been removed from the net. Thank you so much.

FS,

You’re spot on!

The lineup:
Reina, Johnson, Carragher, Agger, Aurelio, Mascherano, Lucas, Kuyt, Gerrard, Benayoun, Ngog

Exactly as you predicted in #292

Sorry, folks. I made a mistake.

The lineup is:
Reina, Johnson, Carragher, Agger, Insua, Mascherano, Lucas, Kuyt, Aurelio, Gerrard, Ngog

Subs: Cavalieri, Aquilani, Benayoun, Riera, El Zhar, Skrtel, Kyrgiakos.

I’d have dropped Insua altogether mate. But looks like he’s put Aurelio in front of him to help out. Sound enough. That’ll do for me. Just hope they keep their heads, don’t get drawn into a fight, and we should be too much for them.

Not surprised it’s been taken off SOAK mate. But I think it’s going to become available in a one hit download. I’ll let you know, but as for now…

i heard we’re 1-0 up, masch scoring. is it true?

it was a deflection, but it looks like they’re giving it to him, yes.

also, is anyone else amazed that torres didn’t make the top ten list for the ballon d’or?! not that it matters much, but thats just ridiculous…

Is it my imagination or does Kuyt look absolutely knackered?

is it 2-0. kuyt now?

Full time 2-0. Great result! I don’t care if they say we’re lucky or Everton had 2 goals disallowed. Finally, 2 clean sheets in a row.

And to Andy Gray: Read the score, read the score, read the score….

Spot on Axchoice

I watched the game on ESPN and one of the pundits said he hoped Everton got the 3 points, so they could send a message to Liverpool. This was after he went on an anti-Rafa rant. Michael Thomas said beating Everton was daylight robbery.

I’ve lost count of the number of times that Chelsea and Manure won games without playing well. Yet the media said that was the mark of their strength. Bottomline is the reds got the points (and a clean sheet for a change) – simples.

Away to Reading in 3rd round of cup

Thanks again FS. The YNWA song at the end of the piece is very, very touching indeed. Great job by the editor.

Great result today. You were right FS, they came to us with elbows and knees first! This win will surely give us the confidence boost to walk on after two wins and two clean sheets. Imagine, we are sitting at no. 5 now amidst all the gloomy clouds and the axe suspended over us.

Not the first time the tone of the commentators turned sombre after we took to lead, and especially after our second goals. You can actually sense the pain in their voices. This problem of biased commentators is compounded when ex-players are doing the job (Alan Smith it was in the game shown on ESPN I think). Also thought we had a good case for a penalty, but rather than saying “unlucky Liverpool for not getting a penalty”, one of the commentators said “lucky boy (everton player)..got away with it”.

You were

Well done to the lads today. Dug in and got a great result. Pepe with a few great saves to boot.

The Toffees will be OK as well based on this performance.

That was exactly, exactly, exactly what we needed!

Pretty poor performance on the whole, but we got the luck we’ve been missing for 3 months and at this point, I’ll take the 3 points and not worry about it too much.
A few more scrappy wins like that and we just might be able to get back into some sort of stride.

Full marks to Everton, they got about us, gave us no time on the ball, and took our game away from us… but fortune favored us today… and this one will really help the lads out. You could see what it meant at the final whistle!

How woeful were the Arse today?
And you gotta love the irony of pundits saying “if you are missing Van Persie for 4-5 weeks its gonna make a difference. Arsene has to buy in the transfer window.”
WTF??? Seriously… 1 injury and you say that?

But the fuckin Chavs look scary good right now. Ancelloti has got them playing as a team and looking like they are really enjoying their footy. Mind you, given our current predicament, it was probably the best result for us.

Aitch, you gotta laugh sometimes about the double-standards. So does this make the Arse a one-man team?

Let’s discuss! Tell you what I can’t be arsed.

Unfortunately, I think that you are right about the Chavs. It’s hard to see them losing/drawing 6-8 games before the end of the season. Unless there is a dreaded injury crisis of course.

Getting the voodoo doll out now.

There’s many a slip twixt the cup and the lip, so its very possible that they could.
They’ve got the African Nations to deal with (though I don’t think it will affect them as much as it might have a season or two ago) and the winter silly season isn’t here yet (our own crazy travails to the contrary) but I’d rather see the Scum falter first.
Given how far we are off the pace… it is vital Scum drop points before the Chavs do and remain a minimum of 6 points behind the league leaders… until we can catch up

Well for all the hustle and hassle it was high balls that nearly undid us today. Crikey it is quite a dodgy and such a basic thing. Height, attitude and concentration. We got caught for the Reina double save and both the Russian and the Jo misses. It would be the the thing we need to work on for me. Both Insua and Fabio were sitting around waving their hands in the air on the Reina saves.

However there were many positive points. Hats off to the boss today, it fell well for him but he played his cards well. We played a containing game and then opened out towards the end with Riera and Benny and a re-juvenated Kuyt together with a happier Gerrard making us look pretty decent for the last 15mins. I know Gerrard was very quiet today but he made the crucial pass for the second goal right at the end he was still switched on and looking for it.
The boys in the middle were fine for me, Mascher middle and back, did the dirty stuff very well and Lucas I thought played really well, should have had a spotter and did everything allover the place, tackling, heading, cutting off, passing and looking to make things happen.
I dunno about our potency for the first 75 mins. For me we looked a bit disconnected from middle to front. Gerrard looked at about 80% and it all looked a bit slow at times.

But hey a wins a win and a clean sheet to boot and a dose of luck …. finally. I will take it.

Seems like the fat man got his bet up as well

A good day all round for red ‘supporters’.

I’d agree with most of that double.
Fellaini caused us all sorts of problems with his height, winning the first ball on almost everything launched into our box.

I dunno if it was disconnected, or just an inability to deal with their hustle and bustle. They never gave us time on the ball and our whole game plan is to slow things down really, and build from the back, which they just set about disrupting. (I’ll hold to our current fitness issues being the culprit for them getting the better of us in that regard.)

Agreed on Lucas… and Masch was back to his Monster self today. What a manic fuckin celebration for the goal ( I know it was a wicked deflection, but I can’t believe they’re gonna take it off him.)
(What chance that celebration puts to bed the Barca rumors, and he showed us his intent to stay… he did make a b-line for the travelling Kop??? or is that just wishful thinking on my part?)

I liked the “unity” at the end too. Lots of smiles and hugs. I know that’s what you do when you win, but to me, it looked like more than just happy to win.

I’d like to see a few key players take this opportunity to give a “big fuck you” to the press by publicly stating dressing room unity.

It wasn’t pretty, but it was just what the doctor ordered.

Happy days. What a great win today. Ok it was ugly but it was exactly what the doctor ordered. I’m actually glad it came in such a scrappy fashion because we’ve played a hell of a lot better than that and lost games,so job done thats two on the bounce.
Hopefully we’ll have learned from the man u game. After winning that we thought things would fall into place. So its important we keep our concentration and get a solid run going now.
Kuyt is my only real concern from today,maybe he tired maybe he needs rested but nothing is sticking to the man. he seems to be missing placing so many paces and im finding him pretty frustrating this weather. However got the second so im willing to leave it at that for now.

Well done lads lets keep it going:-)

huh?! “missing placing so many paces and im finding him pretty frustrating this weather…”

what does that mean?

i assume you mean misplacing passes, but the weather bit has got me right baffled!

Aitch – thats exactly my first thought when Masch scored…I dont think he is wanting to be on the first flight to Barca as some seem to think…and I suspect his poor form at the start of the campaign was more down to the stress associated with trying to get Argentina qualified…

And on the unity – hopefully that puts to bed the stupid dressing room disharmony rumors as well…its clear that there isnt any such thing…the quotes used from the players agent at the ESPN site were twisted all to hell…of course the players are unhappy – they havent been winning…but thats a fucking long way away from disharmony…Maybe there is a player who wants to leave and isnt happy – but we all know who that is and we all know why…the rest seem to be solidly behind each other and Rafa…

yes alec i stand corrected i meant “passes” thats a result of the Guinness wearing off.
As for the weather bit I’ll put it another way.
I feel kuyt hasn’t been performing as good or as well as he can. That’s based on the last 4-5 matches. I was glad he got a goal today but i think he looks a bit tired and jaded at the moment,maybe a rest could be in order?

P.s why does that arsenal team never turn up to play us? they seemed so toothless. Always give us a hand full when we play them.

Great win despite the performance.

Regarding our Monster, ok, me knows he “scored” but why can’t they put on him on shooting practice 24/7?

The number of times he has found himself within shooting range & delivered a piss poor daisy cutter?

If he could just add a few goals to his game, then he’d really be top of the fooking pops.

Right now, in me humble opinion, best midfield thug crown belongs to Essien.

As fer the sniping & name calling in the posts before the game, lads, c’mon, this really is getting tiresome.

If ye finds another punter’s opinions moronic or lacki