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Well I’ve got to admit I’m feeling quite down at the moment and wondering when the hell this bloody awful run we’ve been having will ever come to an end. Like any real Liverpool fan, every loss or bad result we suffer is like a knife to my heart but yesterday’s defeat against the Arse was particularly hard to take because it gave me a really disappointing end to what should have been a perfect weekend.
Because we will not be able to see them over the festive period, on Friday morning my wife and I flew over to London for a Christmas visit to our young Niece and two young Nephews and we had a brilliant time. On Friday evening we brought them ice skating to a great outdoor rink outside the British museum. On Saturday we went to see the stage version of Chitty Chitty, Bang Bang in Oxford which was terrific and on Sunday we sat down to a Christmas dinner with all the trimmings.
With such a hectic schedule, I hardly had time to scratch myself but I did manage to catch Saturday’s football results and was thinking that everything was now in place for Liverpool to put the cherry on the cake of my perfect weekend with a nice little home win against the Gunners, but unfortunately once again this season we showed our uncanny ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory!
Because I committed the cardinal sin of leaving my missus to book our flights, I was travelling home while the game was taking place! All I’ve seen is some short highlights of the major incidents and read a couple of match reports, so I can’t really comment on individual performances but from an overall context it seems that we had the game in our hands but we blew it.
While we still have several players trying to recover their match fitness it appears that, on paper at least, we did start the game with what could be considered our strongest eleven. From the reports I’ve read it seems that we did dominate the first half and should have been 2 or 3 up at half-time.
I saw Torres’s early chance and could only think that had he been closer to the peak of his powers he would most definitely have put it away, and as for the penalty incident with Gerrard, well from what I’ve seen of it all I can say is that if that’s wasn’t a penalty then I just don’t know what a penalty is anymore. But at least Deadly Dirk did manage to put us in front and as we would be playing into the Kop End in the second half we still looked a good bet to take the points.
However our confidence is extremely fragile at the moment and when we unluckily conceded an OG early in the second period, by all accounts it just drained away. Things got even worse for us when we eventually fell behind to a wonder goal from Arse-shaving and unfortunately we never really recovered from that. Johnson was at the centre of both of these incidents and while I can’t comment on his overall performance, I am a fan of his and regard him as one of our top players and I just hope this doesn’t affect him too much in the games ahead.
In the end it was another disappointing result which will no doubt bring even more flak for the boss but under the circumstances I don’t see what else he can be expected to do. If I was to have one complaint about him it’s that I wish he would be a little more guarded with his comments when he’s talking to the British media as he used to be in the past.
It’s never easy when those bastards twist what you say and take everything out of context but I must admit I winced when earlier in the week I heard him say words to the effect that our season begins against Arsenal. The game already had enough pressure on it and I know that he would want to appear confident in the face of that pressure, but a statement like that only increased the heat and left himself open to more ridicule if the result went against us, as it did.
But that’s really just a minor point, in the overall scheme of things all he can do is try to get our big players back on the pitch and build up their match fitness and confidence as best he can, which is what he’s in the process of doing. If our squad wasn’t strong enough to cope with the unbelievable run of injuries we’ve suffered since the season began then the main fault for that certainly doesn’t lay at his door. 
It makes me laugh when I hear plastic fans and so-called “experts” talking about our lack of options in the absence of the likes of Torres and Gerrard etc almost as if it’s some kind of revelation to the rest of us. I mean do these morons actually believe that a man of the considerable intelligence and experience of Rafa Benitez isn’t aware of these things? We are a club with champagne ambitions but we give our manager a lemonade transfer budget and expect him to perform miracles.
To a certain extent that’s exactly what he has been doing since he got here and I shudder to think where we’d be now without him, but he doesn’t have an endless supply of rabbits in his hat. If he’d had enough backing to bring in the first choice players he’s had on his list over the years, I believe we might well have had a couple of titles in the bag by now and perhaps even another Champions League.
Without the type of funding needed to match our ambitions, he’s been forced to mainly make compromise signings. Some have worked, some haven’t but have usually been sold on at a profit. The lack of serious funds has made the task of turning our fortunes around into a long term project, which is frustrating for all of us but it is the only way it is going to happen with the current owners in charge.
Time has been needed, and still is, to gradually upgrade the side and develop all of the talented youngsters we’ve assembled in the Academy and the reserves. We are now well down the road of this process and to abandon it now would, in my opinion, be madness and set us back years. Shanks knows it’s frustrating but we need be a bit more patient and, as ever, keep the faith.
As things stand at the moment we are in a false position in the league but I think things are set to change. Just about everything that can go wrong, has gone wrong for us this season so far. Outside of our obvious incredibly bad luck with injuries, we’ve had wonder goals, last minute goals and even beach ball goals all going in against us. As if all of that wasn’t bad enough, we’ve also had a number of clear penalties denied to us by incompetent officials and while our defence, for the most part, hasn’t been playing at its best level so far, it has to be said that it seems like every single lapse has been punished severely and we just haven’t had a single break.
But there’s nothing we can do about all of that now and on the plus side we’ve at least got almost all of our main players back again. As disappointing as the result was at the weekend, the players should all be a lot closer now in terms of match fitness and this will bring results and confidence in the games ahead. We cannot take anything for granted given the type of luck we’ve had this season but we now start a little run of fixtures that should see us build a bit of momentum and climb the table.
It all starts with our home game against Wigan on Wednesday. Under normal circumstances this type of game would be ideal for us but given the current fragile state of confidence of our side it could be a bit nervy. However, I’ve got to think we’ve now got enough of our big players available to deliver a result and my money’s on a confidence boosting 2-0 win, by any means necessary.
Keep the Faith
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 #1 |
bcscouser
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 12:10 am
I watched the game yesterday, and was once again frustrated with the lack of any real ideas in attack once they went behind. This has been our downfall for a while – the lack of a decisive pass forward, and, more importantly, someone on the end of that pass who knows where the goal is. I lost count of the side and back-passes in the second half, a sure sign of lack of confidence, and, as you rightly point out, this is our best eleven! I have no suggestions, it’s all been beaten to death over the last few months, but I really hope that these guys get a better idea of what wearing the Liverpool shirt means. Right now, I see no way forward with this squad of average players (apart from a couple)and foresee another 2 to 3-year rebuilding program. It’s tough on an old guy who has been used to watching the best…
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 #2 |
Skeat
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 1:09 am
I will be RED no matter win or lose…
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 #3 |
ldhawan
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 2:06 am
I think Rafa should now let loose and drop one of the two holders and put in Aqua behind Torres and Gerrard and Masch in the middle. Benny on the right and Albie (if fit) on the left. We were scoring goals for fun last season near the end and that I believe is our way out of this mess. Instead of worrying about clean sheets we need to start thinking of out scoring our opponents.
Of course, easier said than done… but like Gerry said, things can’t POSSIBLY get any worse!!
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 #4 |
mark g
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 4:04 am
Gerry, it was a pleasure reading your well thought-through column. I agree with most of you points. The second half lack of performance betrayed the poor fitness of many of our players, due to the recent injuries. We should be getting stronger soon. I hope Rafa and his boys will keep their spirits up. Merry Christmas to you and your family!
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 #5 |
gazmaninaus
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 5:07 am
BC, I didn’t see any lads out there who didn’t want to play for a Red Shirt, I saw 11 lads who were broken when they didn’t win. Fair dickum mate they may have been shattered but they never give up.
.
Things will turn around, these lads won’t be kept down for long. Great to see Xabi at the ground watching his former team mates. If we can attract Xabi on a freezing cold Merseyside night to watch his former team mates, then that tells me the team and club have spirit.
.
Lets never give up they at least deserve that!
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 #6 |
Aitch
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 5:36 am
We may have started with our best 11 …but we didn’t start with our 11 AT THEIR BEST.
Where’s the fuckin mystery? These guys are not yet fully fit. gerry I think if you get the chance to watch a rebroadcast, you’ll see we should have been 3-0 up at half-time for all the effort and graft we put in… and would have been at least 2-0 up with any other ref…
… but the high tempo of our first half efforts meant that things were always gonna get dodgy for the walking wounded in the 2nd half with only a 1 goal lead… especially against Arshavin… err… I mean Arsenal.
We were carrying a half-fit SG, BennyOnion and Torres and now people want to drop our two best, strongest and most consistent midfielders and add another walking wounded to the fuckin mix… just so we can see some flix-n-trix…
…mystifying and aggravating in equal measure.
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 #7 |
RedManiac
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 6:17 am
Aitch, I couldn’t agree with you more. Although it was what could be considered our strongest eleven, they are short of being at their best. Just because they take the field does not mean we would start playing like the back end of last season.
Now about Aquilani. Yes he was the ‘big money signing’ and yes he has the talent and potential to be a great player for us but at the moment Lucas and Masch just piss all over him. Just because Lucas cost less and has a lower profile(at the moment) doesn’t mean he just moves aside for Aquaman. Each place in the side has to be earned and Lucas has improved so much and is actually playing really well at the moment (so is Masch).
I do believe we lost more momentum and bite when Aquaman came on. Given time, I hope he will be the player we all hope for but at the moment reputations don’t win us matches.
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 #8 |
Scouse Down Under
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 6:35 am
I don’t know if it was by choice or as someone else suggested, through lack of fitness, but it appeared to me that when we came out for the 2nd half, we sat much deeper than we had in the 1st, as though we were going to try to defend the 1 goal lead and try to hit them on the break. This allowed Arsenal more possesion than they had in the 1st half and allowed them to get their passing game going. Arshavin hardly saw the ball in the 1st half, yet once we allowed them to start playing he was a constant torment and once we had gone behind we didn’t seem to be able to rebuild the momentum.
I don’t believe this is the 1st time this has happened this season, once we get a goal we seem to take the foot of the gas and let a game we have been dominating slip away from us. If this is the way they are being coached, then this is definitely down to Rafa, if it’s not being coached then it’s up to Rafa to spot the problem and tell the players to keep pressing the way they were prior to the goal, the way we were doing at the end of last season.
I agree with Aitch, a lot of the players appeared to be at best half fit, Gerrard seemed to be hobbling at times and appears to be reluctant to run at full speed, however I don’t know that this excuses some of the passing that we saw in the game, some of it was woeful, however I do think the more we can get all these players playing together again the better the understanding will be, we need to try to get a settled side now and, injuries permitting, we should see some real improvement.
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 #9 |
Berysh
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 7:25 am
RedManiac, I think we lost our momentum right after the OG… I can’t blame Aquaman, actually, I think he even brought some positivity into the match… he tried one touch passes, tried to move the ball to the flanks
now, one moment in the middle of the 2nd half was very demonstrative to me, after which i sort of knew that we will not score another goal. Stevie G was cutting in from the left, send the ball past Arsenal defender, but then suddenly stopped and started complaining to Webb that he was held, although the contact was minimal… and at his best he would’ve just rammed through and got into the shooting position, probably scoring a screamer or sending through ball to Torres
anyway, i wasn’t so much upset by the score, more by our play in the second half…
personally, i think 1st half was exemplary, both defensively and offensively… we were stretching arsenal defense, creating chances. I mean, Arsenal have hardly seen the ball, we were pressing them all over the pitch, Masch and Lucas were tearing them apart, Torres looked like his old self, and Stevie was very sharp
I’d say that Wenger was very lucky in the first half, i actually heard that he started tearing his players apart during HT, saying that they do not deserve to wear the club colors, screamed at them and etc…
now second half was weak, you can generally see that our players were tired, fatigued, lost concentration, especially GJ after own goal, although i rate him very high as a player
anyway, it’s time to walk on with our heads up high… season ain’t over yet
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 #10 |
knight
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 9:14 am
Hi Gerry, I was holidaying too on a Malaysia island but managed to see the game with a friend who is not keen on football and does not normally follow the PL. He saw Gerrard being tripped and when the referee did not blow for a penalty said that the referee was clearly on the take. Can’t say I disagree with him.
I think we had two holding mid-fielders in Lucas and Masch. Would have liked to see Aqualani start instead of Lucas, since this is almost a do-or-die match as it would have taken us up a few notches had we won. Pity.
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 #11 |
knight
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 9:44 am
Gerry, For all the pain we have endured following losses due to last minute goals, beach balls and poor refereeing decisions, you have kept a bright and balanced outlook for our Liverpool.
Keep up your positive writings mate. And don’t you dare jump naked from your rooftop into the neighbours’s rubbish bin even if our results are against us.
Here’s wishing you and your wife and family a Merry X’mas and a Happy New Year.
Separately but equally important is to wish all friends and contributors -especially FS and Donal both of whom I had the opportunity of meeting and having a fun time with- on this blog a Merry X’mas and a Happy New year to you and your families and loved ones!
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 #12 |
Kiwi_Mark_LFC
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 11:06 am
Gerry – Can you please add an All of the Above to the Current Kopblog Poll…its impossible to pick the worst…they are all equally shite…:-)
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 #14 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 11:57 am
Here’s my comment from the last blog cut and pasted, because it has another link in it. And I think it’s important…
Why has this not appeared in the media…
http://www.spiritofshankly.com/news/Protest-Review-_-Hicks-turned-away-from-ground.html
You’d think the owner of a football club being kept out of his own stadium by the club’s supporters would be a major story. But not a peep. Why?
I suppose if they had reported it they would have only twisted into Benevolent Owners Assaulted By Scouse Thugs.
But why no mention at all, when whenever you turn on the telly, or the radio, or pick up a paper all you get is LFC in melt down, Rafa’s lost the dressing room, the fans and the plot.
All I can say is…. I suggest anyone who still believes the media isn’t out to get our club and our boss, should have a re-think.
They will not report anything that doesn’t fit the agenda.
********************
AS I said, appologies for not reading the blog or comments before posting. I’m off to do that right now, but was sure some of you would want to see that.
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 #15 |
guinnessdrinker
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 12:02 pm
we’ve just got to roll with the punches for now and see where we are in may.. then the club has some massive decisions to make but with thoses clowns in charge what are the chances of them making the right ones???
Gerry dont know if ya heard the newstalk talking history slot on sunday on the history of LFC but its well worth a listen its up on itunes now in the podcast directory>>newstalk 106>>talking history, yer man from off the ball is on it though he can be a pesimistic twat at times.
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 #16 |
roarin-red
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 12:09 pm
Gonna catch up on comments later,just want to say great blog and thanks again gerry. You and most of the posters in here have kept me from going insane. The constant shite being mouthed about the club is so hard to take and like FS says it is a little oasis of sanity for me.
cheers
YNWA
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 #17 |
burgerman
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 12:20 pm
In my last post I asked, is it a coincidence that the Reds have failed to win a trophy since Pako Ayesteran’s departure?.I discussed this with some Kop season ticket holders who possess a functioning brain and they agreed with the idea that Ayesteran was a major reason for Rafa’s success.Rafa didn’t become successful until he employed Pako as his assistant and the trophies have dried up since his departure.Same thing happened to Gerd after Patrice Berges departure and ditto Cloughie and Taylor.In every walk of life, you get hammered when things go wrong-Tony Blair being a classic example.Win the title this season and Rafa could of kicked his detractors in the nuts.How long more does Rafa need?.Houllier was lambasted because he had a 5 year plan!.Why pay so much for Jono?-Mourinho could see that his defending wasn’t great and offloaded him.
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 #18 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 12:28 pm
Right sorry for my rude interuption, but I’ve read the blog and comments…
I posted Wenger’s reaction to the game in the las comments. He had it spot on.
I really don’t understand some people’s comments… they seem to understand that we are physically and mentaly under the cosh at the moment. But wonder why the team couldn’t keep the first half performance up?
Bit strange to say the least.
And as for a “squad of average players,” baffling indeed.
In the last comments, I also posted Rafa’s response to the Arsenal game… there was no excuses. He told the truth as usual, while supporting the players.
There’s one way out of this… hard work. No magic wand. No nuclear formula. Just plain hard graft.
That will lead to fitness. That will lead to stringing a few wins together.
In the meantime, Rafa can speak to them until he’s blue in the face. He can throw wobblers. He can kick them up the arse or wrap an arm around their shoulders. But in all reality only a string of results will start to remove the nervesouness and anxiety which leads to mistakes and panic, which leads to sloppy goals, which results in heads dropping and tired legs becoming even heavier.
If you watched the game on Sunday, and even have the slightest inkling about the game, you surely seen all that happening once the OG went in.
If he’d clipped that round the post and out, he’d have wellied the second chance up the pitch before Arshavin got anywhere near it.
It’s all a knock on effect, but the good thing is… it works in reverse too and once a few wins are put together the confidence comes back and then the performances after that.
And a few wins will also change things dramatically. Look at Arsenal, just two weeks ago they were 11 points behind Chelsea.
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 #19 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 12:34 pm
BM… I would answer that. But I suppose I’m a Kopite without a functiong brain in your own legendary grey matter. And the fact is… I have given up on you and all the other toss pots.
I’d hate to be like you. In fact, I pity you. It must be awful going through life under a cloud of doom and gloom, always searching for more weapons to beat the one you profess to love.
If you dig deep enough, you could blame John Houlding for all this…
Go on, I’ll give you time to Google the name and find out why I said you can trace it back to him.
In the meantime, I’m still patiently waiting for the master plan from you and your gang.
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 #20 |
gazmaninaus
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 12:36 pm
Burger and chips. I don’t remember Pako being here last season, forgive me if I’m wrong. However I don’t remember him being here, I do remember however, best points haul and second place. I guess that means nothing.
.
Ps when are you going to answer the question, how do you fix our current situation.
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 #21 |
bhavster
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 12:41 pm
ah! BM you finally said it – “In every walk of life, you get hammered when things go wrong”
But i dont hammer my friends when the chips are down, my parents dont hammer me when i am down, my family doesnt hammer other family members when things are low. Actually they do quite the opposite.
My boss hammers me when i dont succeed.
Ask your “Kop season ticket holders who possess a functioning brain” what i might be getting at.
YNWA
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 #22 |
burgerman
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 12:42 pm
Pako wasn’t @ Anfield last season and once again the Reds finished trophyless.Rafa’s success has depended on having Pako as his assistant.That is the opinion of some of the players @ the club and one I agree with.Give him Rafa’s job , he couldn’t do much worse.Problem possibly solved.
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 #23 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 12:45 pm
Which players?
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 #24 |
Dizzy
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 1:04 pm
BurgerBaby crapping his nappies again … its getting boring …
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 #25 |
michaelthomasmademecry
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 1:11 pm
I’ve just figured out who Burgerman is in real life. The love of Arsenal, the hatred of Rafa..
Jermaine! How are ya? Are you enjoying Real Zaragoza? I hear your crap performances got your manager sacked at the weekend.
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 #26 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 1:17 pm
Isn’t it just Dizzy. These people have no shame whatsoever. There is no depths they won’t plunge to… they constantly move the goalposts to fit their agenda. They dip back in the past when it suits them and they are constantly looking for new sticks to batter Rafa with.
It’s bloody disgraceful…
And the nearest we’ve got to a plan, well even a suggestion…
Give Rafa’s job to Pako.
Nevermind the fact that the man has never managed a club or even has the credentials. Never mind that he walked out on Rafa and wanted to return to Spain. Nevermind that we went within 2 goals of winning the title last season when Pako wasn’t there. Nevermind that it is the defence that has us in this position and Pako wasn’t even our defensive coach.
Come to think of it… never mind that we’ve played 24 games in all competitions this season and had to feild 17 different defensive combinations already.
Mind you… I’m looking at the plan unfold. Up to now, we’ve got bringing back Larson even though he’s had to retire due to old age and injuries. And play Nemeth upfront, even though he’s playing in Greece. And let Pako manage them even though he’s not a manager.
Well, excuse me for not having a brain that functions on that level. But I think I’d prefer to stay the way we are. Thanks for the suggestions though. I’ll file them under B where they belong… in the bin!
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 #27 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 1:20 pm
Burger Man this Pako business is a load of horse shit. A truer reflection is this. We have not won anything since H&G bought the club with borrowed money.
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 #28 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 1:24 pm
Hang on LB, that’s common sense you’re using there. It doesn’t fit the agenda.
Look at that clip I posted mate. How come Sly never filmed that?
They have no problem setting up camp outside Anfield everyday and finding a load of tourists coming out the club shop, loaded to the gills with official merchandise, and then cajoling them into agreeing that the club is going into meltdown and it’s all Rafa’s doing.
Sort of strange to say the least.
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 #29 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 1:30 pm
I must be mental. I come in here, post facts, dig up important news items, and give reports on what is happening amongst supporters at the games.
And then end up having a bloody cyber argument with a mischevious slightly retarded lad, who gets his kicks from dropping negative bombshells and reducing this place to absolute banality.
I must get another hobby, maybe even take up that croucheting melarkey. At least there’d be an end product.
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 #30 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 1:53 pm
FS, I read about that yesterday. It’s a bloody good question you ask. Why is this not reported in the mainstream media? A club the size of Liverpool have owners who were denied access into the stadium of the club they own due to a demonstration. And this is not reported? When Glazier was buying everyones shares at Man Utd and their fans were demonstrating I saw it on sky sports news every day. Main sports writers in ever newspaper covered the story daily.
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 #31 |
Decstarr
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 1:54 pm
I recon BM works for sky sports.
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 #32 |
liquic
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 2:14 pm
Some Kop season ticket holders who possess a functioning brain actually discussed things with burgerman?
Why would they bother doing that?
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 #33 |
Dizzy
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 2:14 pm
Exactly FS … and you need to ask this BurgerBaby wat exactly is Pako winning at the moment wherever he is??
I think the last season’s High came at the wrong period of time… if it wud have come at a point where we already have a decent and settled squad (playing & bench)we wud definitly be building on that … But, unfortunately, it came at a point where we have to actually SELL to not only buy but worst, to pay the wages and renew contracts.. It had our hopes up… it had TITLE no. 19 Coming Up written all over it… But wat happened since july is there for everyone to see … but sadly few of the “supporters” dun see everything that clearly and find pooping in here very comfortable …
If Rafa had made blunder of a signing in this season, i wud have thot abt slagging him … If he had been putting all teh moeny given to him for transfers into his own pockets i wud be slagging him .. But wait a minute, did he do that ?? He had his hand tied .. He cudnt even get a friggin 6 odd million to sign that Turner guy and had to make wid a scrappy replacement of Hercules for mere peanuts …
I had my reservations on Aqualani’s transfer .. but then once i discussed it here and read few stuff regarding the ACTUAL facts regarding financial/transfer kitty (absence of) i had admire Rafa for taking the chance wid Aqualani.. Ths mite turn into another quality buy.. that too wen his injury provided the chance to get him on a “Bargain value” .. I knew it wud be hard for him to settle in rite away and it will take him atleast a few games to get into teh groove, to gel in and to link up perfectly wid the Gerrard-Toress Duo.. SO far, if he hasnt lived up to everyone’s expectations, he hasnt disappointed anyone either .. He has performed perfectly normal for a player coming after an injury and into a different league ..
As every INSANE and ILLOGICAL (pun intended)minded fan in here has mentioned already, the real reason for our slide this season has been more due to the fact that we have had to use a dozen different defensive combinations so far … starting form the day one clattering of heads between cara and skertl ..
But we did see our real game, or i’d say a glimpse of it, as it lasted for one half only against arsenal .. but for me, that was the sign of the real liverpool spirit and display returning … and if it wasnt for that asshole webb, who knows wat have been in teh second half ..
Anyways, as Tomkins put in the otehr day, we just need a couple of hard-fought clean sheet wins under our belt and we wud be back on track … COnfidence is the key …
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 #34 |
bhavster
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 2:15 pm
FS thats a great link to the SOS video. Not only should we spread the link, but in my opinion also the point that this was not reported by any English media. If this doesnt get Liverpool supporters thinking, i cant fathom what will. And thats all i really want to start with – get our own to realise whats happening.
I had lived in the far east for many years and it is very easy not to know the real issues faced by any club when living far away. But vidoes like these, right outside Anfield, should bring fans all over the world a little closer to the real problems.
Any plans by SOS to spread word of this protest?
YNWA
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 #35 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 2:36 pm
Yes mate. It’s an on going thing.
Sadly though, I think it won’t get any media courage while it’s peaceful and actually working.
The only papers it’s been in is the Liverpool ones. And understandably, they can’t make too much of a big deal of it as they have to tow the owners line really.
Tell you when it will get reported… when the police try to stop them and it gets violent. Then the SOS will be reported as a gang of Scouse thugs, denying the owners their legal rights.
Dizzy… it’s like the old story of the boy trying to block the holes in the Dam. Each time he plugs one up, another appears and he hasn’t got the tools to keep shoring them up.
And as long as H&G remain, it’s only going to get worse. I hate to be a doom and gloom monger, but it has to be faced… Carra, Gerrard, Kuyt, Benayoun will soon all be on the downward part of their careers. There’ll be no money to shore up the squad.
Rafa’s no dummy. He knows this. That’s why he invests in all the kids, hoping a few will make and knowing he will make money on the ones that don’t.
In fact, only last week he beat the Mancs, Arse and Chavs to some young lad from Iceland. The idiots will tell you the world wide famous scouting system that Rafa and Eduardo Macia have built is crap. But the truth is… The Mancs are so worried about our system that they are setting up their own schools and academies in Brazil.
I agree with the tramp, given time Rafa’s youth policy will bring through good young players to fill the gaps and reduce the need for major money on established players. The problem is some people aren’t even willing to go past a one match setback without calling for the manager’s head.
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 #36 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 2:37 pm
Typo of the month… media courage.
HA. Sorry lads, coverage obviously.
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 #37 |
Decstarr
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 4:19 pm
more crap from Sly sports i couldn’t stand it so i responded!! doubt they post it up!!
http://www.skysports.com/opinion/story/0,25212,15196_5773850,00.html
Yet more propaganda from the lets bash Rafa and Liverpool sky sports camp. The consensus might be that Rafa Benitez is a cold calculating machine, with little or no people management skills, but i believe all is body language show is the depth of his feelings for the club and disappointment at our present predicament. It is reflective of everything that all Liverpool fc supports were feeling on Sunday directly after the game….shock and disbelief at how we could boss a game so much in the first half, that if it had been a boxing match (to use Mr Shreeves’s own analargy) a ref would have stopped it. To losing from an unbelievable own goal that you couldn’t have scripted, and a contender for goal of the season!
So Mr Shreeves and Sly Sports, do us all a favour and lay off our Rafa! Your dagger comments and underhand agenda, does nothing to help a team already struggling for form and a fragile bank of confidence! Your antics might sway the fair weather supports, but not those true Liverpool fans out there!! YNWA!!!
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 #38 |
sula
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 4:41 pm
Truth is Rafa hasnt been the same with out Pako,yes he came close winning the EPL trophy in the absence of Pako but no one recognises 2nd best,he won the champion league trophy and FA cup with half of the squad he inherited from Houllier and pako as his back bone,Pako left and offloaded most of the players and there is nothing to show as success at Anfield since then.
If we keep losing games,believe me pressure will finally mount and the fans will lose their trust in him,every thing that has a begining has an end,we can say whatever we wanna say but at the end of the day what happens at the pitch determines the fate of the club!
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 #39 |
Redneck
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 4:57 pm
now they are using pako as the stick to beat rafa. sigh.
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 #40 |
bigbry
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 5:22 pm
Loved the SOS demo. I remember when the Mancs did the same and built a rickety wooden road block that the car just smashed through when all the mancs ran away. It was all over the media, they loved it.
A real shame that it isnt getting any coverage. Has anybody e-mailed the top liverpool supporting journalists?
It would be a pity not to use it. I remember e-mailing a letter to a Dallas newspaper (cant remember which one) but true to their word they printed it and sent me a copy. It would be pretty uncomfortable for Uncle Tom to read about this in his local newspaper when hes eating his cornflakes.
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 #41 |
theredman
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 5:23 pm
“believe me pressure will finally mount and the fans will lose their trust in him” just like you have you fuckin knobhead, if you are going to comment, try and be a bit more educated on LFC and all it stand’s for, failing that fuck off out of here we dont need the likes of you when we have mancs and chavs to contend with as well.
FS they have knocked the Bluebell down and the Hilly.
YNWA.
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 #42 |
bhavster
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 5:24 pm
sula – “but at the end of the day what happens at the pitch determines the fate of the club”
really?
and what determines what happens on the pitch? maybe the players, maybe the manager, maybe the owners, maybe the board, maybe the fans.
other than bashing the manager, can you see where else we might be going wrong?
YNWA
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 #43 |
satyromaniaman
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 5:49 pm
Wonderful… the stage is set for the greatest premiership comeback glory EVER!
All we have to do now ( since most of the other teams consider us goners already ) is to attack like there is no tomorrow.
————–Reina————-
————–Carra————-
—Degen————— Insua—
————–masch————-
Johnson——Stevie G——Reira
——–Benny——————-
——————Torres——–
This line up will GUARANTEE the premiership returns to its home at LFC come may 2010. Its unstoppable, its destructable, its so devastating the other teams will shit in their pants.
The problem is only the manager will not play this team. We always perform better with a 3 man defence and 2 overlapping attackers. Remember Istanbul, we can win this. All we need is to go out there and scare the shit out of these people with our strengths in attack now.
If Aquilani is up to it then play him beside Masch and push Stevie G further up with a free role supporting Torres. So SIMPLE.
When we are up then take out Reira and put in Agger and we have our 4 man defence back. Even if we do not take out Riera we still have a strong defence as we have Masch and Stevie G tacking back in the centre while we can trust Johnson to track back on the right. We shud be more than fine in defence. SO SIMPLE.
Get this team out and see the wins pile up all the way to the title.
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 #44 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 6:03 pm
“Its unstoppable, its destructable, its so devastating the other teams will shit in their pants.”
Degen, Carra, Insua as a back 3…. I think I just shit MY pants.
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 #45 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 6:10 pm
Off topic here.
In a year where there has been 3 new British boxing World Champions and a British Formula 1 World Championship. How the fuck did Ryan Giggs win BBC Sports Personality of the year!!?
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 #47 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 6:13 pm
And I forgot to mention the Gold medal winners at the Athletic World Championship….
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 #48 |
theredman
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 6:14 pm
FS,
just read that the great Alan Acourt passed away today aged 75, what a shame i cant really remember him playing and i should.
YNWA.
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 #49 |
Aitch
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 6:14 pm
#43
Speechless
(and this from a guy that usually types 23 paragraph missives)
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 #50 |
Aitch
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 6:18 pm
Nah, simply can’t leave it at that.
The question is … do YOU remember Istanbul?
What turned the tide, was not SG bombing forward… but the introduction at half-time of Didi Hamman… A FUCKIN HOLDING MIDFIELDER… who put his foot on the ball, shored things up at the back, and provided the platform required to allow SG to get forward and do some damage.
FOR FUCKS SAKE… try actually watching some football will you?
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 #51 |
Aitch
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 6:19 pm
… or better yet, put down the FIFA08 game controller, log off Champ Manager, get off yer arse, get yourself some fuckin boots and get yourself into a league team and learn something… anything… about the game.
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 #52 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 6:45 pm
Yeah I know Red. I was in Huyton not long back. I stay in Bootle when I’m at home though. And I only really bevvie in town… I do the Punch, Coopers, Winey route. Miss them mad Mondays mate.
Well, there’s one plan. As I said earlier, I’ll stick with Rafa’s.
Still waiting on Sula The Not So Magnificent’s. Come to think of it, I’m still waiting on any useful suggestion from any one of them. Don’t think I’ll be risking holding me breath on that though.
What a gyp LB, I thought he was a shoe in for the Nobel Peace Prize and the Oscar too.
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 #53 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 6:49 pm
Oh and Red, I missed A’Court too. He retired just before I started going. I sort of remember him from when I was a kid, and I’ve read about him. He was from Rainhill you know… A place you know well isn’t it?
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 #54 |
somnath07in
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 6:54 pm
I dunno how much Burgerman’s talk about Pako is true. I would like to leave it at that.
Whats the activity on the trasnfer front? Are we being linked to anyone in the Jan transfer window? I meant anything happening on a serious note?
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 #55 |
Lurgankop
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 7:02 pm
yep, we give 3 million to Roma by the 4th Jan and then we have no more money for transfers!
Oh and then we give another 7 million to Roma by the end of june and at least half (probably all) of the summer transfer budget is away!
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 #56 |
KeithSA
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 7:09 pm
Thank God I have been so hectic, despite being part of the benefit brigade, to actually read and catch up with everything. I did not have the heart to read the post on the last blog and have been pleasantly surprised at the tone of this one except for the usual CBC pathetic drivel. Great Blog Gerry and it is a pity you did not see the game. The first half was great to see with the Arse not even at the races, we dominated in all facets of the game except where it matters most the sharpness that comes from having games under your belt. Both Torres and Gerrard lack any real match sharpness. We are a good team and time will prove me right. Johnson looks to be struggling with a fitness issue as well. Aurelleo had a good game and Masch (my man of the match) and Lucas made the world famous Fabregas and co look ordinary. Who was it for the CBC who said what team in the top four would Lucas play for. Well we have dominated both the Mancs and the Arse in the midfield so that should answer your question. I was gutted at the result, felt sick to my stomach, it was a game we should have and deserved to win and my heart went out for all the lads who gave it their all. Yes they ran out of steam in the second half, understandably so seeing most of them are half fit. We just need a bit of a break to get the confidence levels up. It will happen, we have to keep faith, the lads and Rafa deserve it, it’s the least we can do to help them. It will turn, luck and form is temporary, class is permanent and this team and Manager are pure class. YNWA, it time we as supporters stand up and live our motto and stop with the knee jerk responses, while ignoring the reality of the situation we find ourselves in. Get behind the team or fuck off.
I agree it’s a disgrace the way the main stream news ignore the reality of what is happening at Liverpool.
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 #57 |
KeithSA
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 7:13 pm
LB #44 I am still laughing thanks it put a smile back on my face.
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 #58 |
Diggerno.10
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 7:26 pm
‘unstoppable’, ‘indestructable’, ‘devastating’ – high praise indeed for a 10 man team Saty!!
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 #59 |
Sousake
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 7:28 pm
In regards to the silly comments about Pako being manager, since leaving us he went on to be physical fitness coach at Benfica and has since joined Valencia this year in the same role. Obviously he’s ready to take over from Rafa any second now.
As far as the game goes, its disappointing because, as Gerry said, the weekends other results set it up well for us but when you’ve been effectly playing with a half injured team for a while, its unsuprising results havn’t been going our way. It’s frustrating but the only other team with a bigger injury list than us is Everton and look how that’s effected their season so far. But hey, I’m confident we can bounce back. A few wins later and who knows where we’ll be especially as we’ve already been written off by all the media world of bitter ex-footballers, failed managers or journalists who’ve never even managed to play for a pub team. So in a way, these vast collection of money-grabbers have taken most of the pressure off already.
Regardless, I’m still confident Rafa’s the man for the job and maybe we’ll even get something at the end of the season for our troubles. There’s still somethings to play for after all. I could be being too optimistic (I don’t have the managerial knowledge of Graeme Souness after all) but when thing’s aren’t going your way, at least we get to see who’s really behind the team and who isn’t.
Like Gerry said, keep the faith.
YNWA.
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 #60 |
Aitch
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 7:36 pm
#54… …er… NO .. let’s not leave it at that. That’s what Emus do.
Let’s not leave some snidey little sideswipe at rafa hanging out there unchecked!
Let’s not let some half-truth (and that’s being inccredibly generous) go undisputed!
NO… let’s not do that, let’s not leave it at that…
…coz quite simply Burgs statement was at best uninformed and inacurate …and at worst a bold faced, shit-stirring LIE!
So Somnath, allow me to clue you in.
Pako Ayesteran was a terrific assistant coach. He was Rafa’s right hand man, and to suggest he did not contribute to the cause would be a disservice to the man.
BUT… the truth is… G&H used him as a pawn to unsettle Rafa and what he was doing… for their own financial gain (something not at all related to our success ont he field.)
G&H set these two long-time collaborators against one another, and there was only ever gonna be one outcome.
In U.S. sports, they’d have probably gotten away with it, but it is just one example of how G&H just do not have even the remotest fundamental understanding of Football… particularly English Football and its associated culture.
Such a power play was only ever gonna end with Pako walking amid the destruction of a long-standing collaborative partnership.
… but make no mistake… while Pako was a good first team coach, Rafa was the brains of the outfit!
So now you know…
… but we can’t even leave it at that!
You’ve used burgerman’s quotes to substantiate opinions you hold before… I caution you again to beware who you afiliate yourself with… not because I want you to agree with me… but simply coz you won’t get the opportunity to press any case you think you might have, if you use BM and his postings to support anything you have to say.
His posts are invariably…
1. Unsubstantiated
2. Often utterly ridiculous
3. Generally inacurate
3. Frequently not thought out
4. just plain nonsense
you do yourself no favors tacking yourself to his mast… and will learn nothing from anything that particular individual has to say.
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 #61 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 8:03 pm
Aitch, take no notice of it. The kid is doing what he’s always done since coming in here… crying, whingeing, moaning, reducing the place to days of pointless arguments and banality, then mellowing his stance, seeming reasonable for awhile, but as always will start it again at the first possible opportunity.
He’s done it so many times, I’m amazed he’s still getting away with it.
What none of them have done is come up with anything positive whatsoever… not one single suggestion of what should be done.
And the fact is, if they was any sort of LFC fans they would be used to years and years of this over the last 20 years… let’s face it, it’s far less than we had to put up with in the past.
They really have no clue mate. I go back to what I said earlier…
they constantly clutch at any straw. They have no shame. They go back and forth from the past to now, looking for sticks to bash Rafa with, and they don’t care how many goalposts they shift to achieve this aim.
And despite being asked time an time again to come up with some sort of answers to their whinges, they steadfastidly ignore that and just press on with their squalid little agenda.
It’s a disgrace really. It’s nothing I’ve ever seen from proper Liverpool supporters in nearly 50 years of supporting the club.
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 #62 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 8:38 pm
Tomorrow we celebrate 50 years since the day Shankly came to this club and built it into what we know today.
I lived through his times. I loved the man like a second father. I’m not exagerating or being overly sentimental. That is how I, and thousands upon thousands like me, felt about the man. We would have walked to the ends of the earth for him.
I have also read everything I could about the man and feel qualified enough to say, if he saw the state of some of our support nowadays, it would break his heart.
He knew failure. He went 7 years without a trophy. He knows exactly what it takes to drag a sleeping giant back on to it’s feet. And I’m sure he would have some great advice for Rafa, but without a doubt he would have nothing but empathy and even sympathy with the man.
As for the backstabbers and traitors, he would probably do his best to have them banished from the club. Well, knowing Shanks, he’d probably want them flogged.
They really have nothing to do with this club. They have no idea of the solidarity it was built upon. They just attached themselves to Liverpool. I assure you Liverpool wouldn’t pick them.
They disgrace all that’s gone before, and they muddy the present and future. They are just as much a tumour on this great club of ours as Hicks and Gillette. In fact, they are worse in many ways…
H&G just want to make as much money as possible. That is the nature of the disgusting type of people they are. They care for nothing but profit. But these scabs that have attached themselves have no excuse.
They bring absolutely nothing to the club. They are told they aren’t wanted. They just mock the people who tell them that and carry on regardless. They can’t even plead ignorance because people have taken the time to try and educate them… they just chose to ignore it all and carry on with their agenda while bringing absolutely nothing – not even a positive encouraging word – to the club.
Shankly had no time for people like that. And neither do I. If it was a war and they was on my side, I’d have them bloody shot for treachery.
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 #63 |
Aitch
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 8:38 pm
I know it mate…
Like you FS, I’ve traveled the world and there are Liverpool fans out there today because of it.
I’m like one of them daft fuckin Mormon fellas in their white shirt, black tie and bicycle, when it comes to LFC… I’ve converted people to the one true God of LFC on 4 continents.
I was in Africa 3 years ago. (Nothing but Chav and Arse shirts as far as the eye could see in Kenya and Tanzania… very sad.)
I spent 13 days working with a group of local lads in Tanzania… all Chav and Arse fans to a man… but when I left 3 of them were Reds, and when I got back home I sent them each an LFC jersey out of my collection.
I’ve got 2 good Yank mates here in the States, one was already a convert when I met him, from having shared an apartment with a Scouser, the other was a Newcy fan and we converted him together.
The first lad talks some serious shit about Rafa these days and I sternly educate him every time he does. The 2nd lad frequently asks me questions about LFC (past, present and future) before forming his opinion.
Not that I’m saying I’m some great sage… people should make up their own minds, not just take what I’ve got to say… but that’s just it… the 2nd lad just recognizes someone with a bit more experience is all and is the type of lad that wants that info before he makes his own mind up (a bit like Sun King from the last blog… great first post by the way!!)
I guess I just still hold out hope that if people like you and I continue to talk some sense, maybe just maybe, it will be heard over the din of nonsense that comes from the dubious CBC types!
I ask people to ask themselves this question.
If someone’s post history has never exceeded one or two short sentences at a time… how much value can there really be in what they’ve got to say?
(of course… that could just be some self-aggrandizing shit to say, since my posts are usually 10 paragraph diatribes )
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 #64 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 8:49 pm
Aitch, I love that list describing BM’s posts. Number 2 is my favourite. Not sure why there are two number 3s though.
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 #65 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 8:50 pm
So it’s you to blame for attracting all these gobshites to the club!
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 #66 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 8:51 pm
I have to put it in again, Aitch. (I’ve amended the typo)
His posts are invariably…
1. Unsubstantiated
2. Often utterly ridiculous
3. Generally inacurate
4. Frequently not thought out
5. just plain nonsense
Hahaha… post of the month!
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 #67 |
Aitch
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 8:54 pm
Ah shit, really LB???
All the fuckin thought that’s gone into the last 20 or 30 “War & Peace” posts I’ve made and THAT, is the post of the month???
(slinks away in a mixture of disappointment, sheer embarrassment and disillusionment.)
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 #68 |
Aitch
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 8:55 pm
FS, if it takes a little pressure of Rafa and the boys, then by all means
I AM TO BLAME!
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 #69 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 9:01 pm
Pound to a penny… they will get sick of constantly being pulled for the shite they spout and they will go off and register on some Manc or Chave site. They will then start spouting all sorts of shite about us in here, and it will be greeted with glee. They will become some sort of keyboard star on some Manc site by slagging off LFC, LFC supporters and Scousers in general.
I wish they’d just hurry up and get on with it.
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 #70 |
Aitch
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 9:10 pm
I hear you Brother, but I still hold out hope that through some civility, maybe, just maybe some of them will see the error of their ways, shun the dark side and become better people as well as better “supporters”.
The way that happens is to gain a true understanding of what it is to be LFC fan. That it is different, vastly different than following any… ANY… other team.
Praise Jesus… and pass the ammo (that was for red )
I do know its a pipe dream, though!
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 #71 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 9:15 pm
Maybe you do need that mormon suit after all Aitch. I’d much prefer they just fucked off meself. But honestly, mark my words, they will do exactly what I said – fuck off to the Mancs, and slag us – and so be warmly greeted with open arms.
And let’s face it… that’s all it’s about really. A desperate plea for some attention. Dogs prefer getting kicked by their owners over being ignored and left alone.
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 #72 |
Lurgankop
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 9:20 pm
Something popped into my head when I was queuing-up in MacDonalds, after picking me dole.
They say that Rafa’s yearly transfer budget should also take into account the player’s salaries and contract negotiations.
So, for example, after signing Aquaman does Rafa have to take into account his salary for the season or is it for the duration of the contract.
I hope to feck it’s the former.
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 #73 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 9:29 pm
Aitch, that list could be used to describe the opinion of most football pundits. The bollocks they talk is absolute.
At the moment I blame the players. I’d like them to show that collectively they own a pair of testicles – figuratively speaking of course.
I realise there are issues with fitness but still, the white flag is waved a bit too readily whenever things do not go our way in a match.
I don’t want to pick on Gerrard and I know he has dragged us out of some holes in the past and probably will do in the future. But he fucking well got injured because he insisted he was fit enough to play in a meaningless match for England. When everyone knew he was not fit. This results in him missing several matches. Not only that. Stevie is a player that takes a while to get back to form whenever he has been out for longer than 2 weeks. I can’t remember his last shot at goal or the last time he went past a defender.
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 #74 |
Aitch
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 9:34 pm
Either way, it affect the transfer budget Lurg.
One short term, the other both short & long term.
Anyone expecting us to bring in anything of real quality in January is kidding themselves.
Rafa is renegotiating Mascher’s contract and that’s gonna end up doubling the lads wages.
He’s also got 2 other senior team players and a few kids to renegotiate.
So he’s gonna have feck all left to deal with.
In January rafa has to try to:-
Get Voronin traded on a free, so we can get him off the wage bill.
Sell Dossena for as much as he can recoup, which will probably be at a loss but will free up some wage bill money.
Maybe… Try to get something for Babel (also freeing up some wage money)
Other than that… there’s no one in the first team squad we can afford to lose right now.
Which means his only other option is to sell some of the promising youngsters… you know, the ones he neveer develops like Wenger!
All while trying to stop the rot, stem the tide, turn it… in spite of some of our “support”.
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 #75 |
gazmaninaus
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 9:36 pm
Satry, why are we bringing on a sub in Agger when we only have 9 players on the field. Is it some type of shock tactic.
.
Talk about faith playing Degen, I’m currently injured and Riera, I’m also currently injured, so we’re actually only playing with 7. That’s going to show the opposition.
.
Just unstoppable.
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 #76 |
Aitch
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 9:44 pm
I agree LB.
I’ve never thought SG was a particularly good Captain, to be honest.
People will misread that.
SG leads by action, but in my opinion, that isn’t what makes a good Captain.
he lost his nut on Sunday and we got no leadership from him.
Carra would have made a far better Captain, for my money, but this seaosn, he’s lost his nut a few times too. His problem I think is that he’s only got a couple of seson’s left in him and he knows that. Each season that slips away has to be a dagger through the heart for the lad, so I understand where his temperament is coming form… but it don’t help in the current circumstances.
When the tide turns, they’ll both be back to their best and when that happens, they are great leaders…. but to me a great leader isn’t one that provides leadership in times of success, its the guy that does it when all about them are losing their heads.
And that, among so many other thigns, has been a big issue for us this season.
Masch has been that guy for the last two games, but unfortunately there’s a language barrier that maybe damages his shout for the armband. (not that it’ll ever get taken away from SG now)
Masch picked up a knock against the Arse and his removal for AquaMarina, I think, turned the tide more than the 2 goals… coz we lost that fire and brimstone that stopped them playing in the first.
And what some people fail to understand is that it is that midfield solidity that is necessary …and allows for… any attempt at attacking flair or endeavour.
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 #77 |
KeithSA
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 10:25 pm
Atich (or should we start calling you the oracle) Gerrard reminded me of a bit of early season Torres, moaning more about small incidents, getting distracted then trying to play. That was my take anyway. We need to get players back up to speed and firing on all cylinders. A couple of good wins will do the confidence a world of good. This is a good team we just need to get a break, when things run for us and get on a winning streak where the confidence flows and then there will be no stopping us. It just seems the world is on the entire teams shoulders at the moment, which is not too far off the truth. There is not too much wrong that a fit squad with confidence will not put right. Well new owners with money would also help.
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 #78 |
michaelthomasmademecry
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 10:35 pm
Good to see Wolves are giving Man United a tough game tonight. Resting 10 players going to Old Trafford! It’s a fecking disgrace. McCarthy should be pulled for it.
He was a crap Sunderland manager, a crap Ireland manager and I hope Wolves go down just because he’s lying down and surrendering even before the game.
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 #79 |
timmytorres
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 11:31 pm
Super stuff Gerry.
We now sit eight in the table.Birmingham have jumped above us in the table.Que new stick for the CBC to beat to beat Rafa with.
FS,thanks for that SOS video pal.Good result in the fight to rid the cancer from our club.A small step yes,but people power shouldn`t be
underestimated.Just ask Steve Cohen.Even though the British media refuse to give these peacful protests some air time,we as reds should spread the word everywhere we can.
Unfortunately we cannot rid the other cancer on the club.The so-called “fans” who choose to kick the club when they`re down and continue to use phone-is,newspaper letters and internet sites to spread their vile.
Even if the minority left here,they would soon be replaced by some other goons.
I met a guy today,he`s not a red,he`s a typical glory hunter actually.He used to follow the villa but a couple of years back he got sick of villa in midtable mediorocity so changed his allegence to Barcelona and spanish football in general.After i put him straight on a few of his Rafa bashing points he turned arouns and said.”Well i actually never watch Liverpool play,i seen the game sunday but other than that i don`t watch them at all”.
Typical.Why watch a game of footy,study it and form your own opinion when you can just buy `that rag` every morning or watch sky sports to make your mind up for you.
Unbelieveable.(well not anymore)
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 #80 |
timmytorres
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 11:34 pm
FS #36,typo of the century my friend
MTMMC,why did wolves even turn up tonight?
How many points do the mancs get handed on a plate every season??
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 #82 |
Aitch
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 11:39 pm
Whoa to you, oh earth and sky,
for the devil brings the beast with wrath,
for he knows the time is nigh
Let him who hath understanding
reckon the number of the beast
for it is a huiman number
that number is six hundred …and Nineteen
(619 is the channel on which my satellite service carries SKY)
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 #83 |
Aitch
Posted on December 15, 2009 @ 11:55 pm
Keith I tried to give my oracle-ish explanation of what I see as the current situation, towards the end of the last blog.
The people who need to read that the most probably didn’t/won’t.
You’re dead right… once we get a few breaks and string a few results together, confidence will gel with fitness and we can definitely be a force to reckon with.
… if only we could take a breath and set aside our frustration, desperation and despair for a few moments…. The first half against Arsenal should teach us that… (but there have been other examples.)
We have a better squad than people give us (or Rafa) credit for… and we may well have to right this season off (though I don’t …yet) as far as a title challenge goes, but a rally to 4th place (and I still think higher is achieveable) is well do-able and a pair of Cups wouldn’t be half bad.
To some extent, even taking injuries, form and bad luck into consideration, LB is right when he says we need to see more bollocks on display.
Again going back to the last blog, I said this is where we separate the men from the boys… both on the field and in the stands.
Getting out of the quicks and requires everyone slowly pulling in the same direction… we saw that in the 1st half, not so much in the 2nd, but if Torres had been sharper and we’d got the pen, it would have been the Arse that were demoralized and I think we’d have seen us run out a score on them…. these moments change games… as evidenced by the O.G.
As FS said, this won’t happen overnight.
We’ll need a couple of scrappy/fortunate wins to build confidence before we start showing our true colors and tonking a few teams…
… but as a “highly respected” (…ahem…) Footy Oracle …I see more to convince me we will, than we won’t.
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 #84 |
timmytorres
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 12:17 am
Nice one #82
“I said this is where we separate the men from the boys… both on the field and in the stands.”
You hit the nail on the head there Aitch.
When the team is low on confidence,as well as dragging themselves out of the rut with a few wins,the Anfield crowd also has a responsibility to get behind the team for the whole game,especially when the chips are down.
Same team from the start i`d say and take the game to them.
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 #85 |
Dizzy
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 12:19 am
Wat the Fuck did just happen at the old-toilet ?? Effing wolves resting their 10 players against manures …
things like these just make me sick!!!!
|
 #86 |
Aitch
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 12:44 am
Dizzy, its called “bringing the game into disrepute”
…but fuck all will be done about it.
Just like Fungus commenting that “the match officials have no business deciding how much time should be added at the end of a game”
..how’s that? The only fella with a fuckin stop watch in the stadium, and he shouldn’t be the one makeing the decision? Why? Coz he didn’t play until you scored?
There are men of honor in this world, and then… well…..
…seriously my head spun when I read that and I actually heard that cartoon “yaggedy, yaggedy, yaggedy, brrgggg, bagoyoyoing!” sound!
HOW THE FUCK DO THEY GET AWAY WITH IT?
But wipe the fuckin rain off yer specs, and it’ll be a nice tidy fine please Mr. Benitez, thank you very much!
It would begger belief if it wasn’t the same old fuckin story.
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 #87 |
Aitch
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 12:54 am
If that fucker McCarthy fields a full strength team at Anfield on the 26th… I’m taking fuckin hostages!
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 #88 |
Dizzy
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 12:56 am
Its bloody shameful and disgusting … dun have more words to show my feelings …
lets see wat sly sports report on it …
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 #89 |
Decstarr
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 1:17 am
Aitch I total agree with your comment #76. I love Steven Gerrard to bits but at times i do think he could moan less. I also though that mascherano going off (with a knock) cost us more than the freaky own goal.
|
 #90 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 1:21 am
Sacriledge… LB Aitch, go wash out your minds with soap and water!!!
Arsing about aside, I think you’re being a bit harsh on Gerrard there lads. The lad is obviously playing through injury. You can even see him pulling out of runs and challenges that he’d always go into at full belt.
And insisting on playing when he shouldn’t might be stupid of him, and it does drive me mad when he does it for England, but the lad is just made from that sort of stuff. The best always are. They will always want to play even when their legs are hanging off. That’s when it’s down to the management and medical staff to put the blocks on them. So blame Cappello and his physios for that.
And maybe he should be rested now… but Aitch, I’d say that’s showing some bollocks. Adn give me that sort of spirit over the likes of Kewell or Intandje, or any other bum who prefer to sit on their arses and get paid to playing bloody football.
As for the hysteronics… there’s no denying Stevie had a problem with this in the past. But if you look at him now, he’s always driving the lads on when we are playing well, and encouraging them when things aren’t going great. I’ve noticed a remarked change in his attitude in the last 2 seasons. For instance, just watch how he is with Lucas. And you can all remember how he used to be.
And look at him at Goodison… he knew full well he was struggling even before the game, so he called the lads into a pre-match huddle during the bloody warm up and read the riot act to them. And although he wasn’t able to compete at his normal rate that day, he still had a lot to do with the effort that brought round that result.
I honestly, think at this moment he’s more frustrated with his own game than anyone elses. But I tell you what, every delivery by him on Sunday was top class… maybe down to knowing he couldn’t be as useful in open play so he applied more concentration to the set pieces. I don’t know.
As for lifting the team, I think one word covers that Istanbul. Of course that is the trump card, but fact is, no one in our team can lift the other players or the fans quite like Steven, and for that reason alone he should be captain.
I tell you one thing, I’m absolutely dreading the day his legs go. I honestly think he’s passed Dalglish now as our best ever player. He’s certainly more influential than Kenny was. But I don’t like comparing players to other players. It’s like comparing oranges and apples.
And the likes of Dalglish and Gerrard are once in a life time type players. So, all I can say is, I don’t know about anyone else, but I’m going to cherish the lad while I can.
As for Wolves, I suppose what McCarthy done was understandable and he has already made his excuses… 2 hard games in the space of 4 days, we couldn’t do it. I had to protect the players.
But here’s the thing… they got their first away win at Spurs – a very difficult place. That win pulled them out of the bottom three. The players from that game would have been raring to go. And with United being so shite right now, they might have racked up another result, even a point might make all the difference at the end of their season. But he chose to throw in the towel and I wouldn’t be too happy if I’d made the journey from Wolverhampton, but nothing will be said about it or done.
But, when justifying this the Sly commentator said, “Well, I remember Liverpool dropping 9 players when they went to Fulham and Fulham won that day and stayed up.”
Well, I remember that an all… I remember all the shit we/Rafa took for it and are still taking it from Neil Warnock to this day. But what they all chose to ignore was we had a Champion’s League Final coming up in 3 days time.
I wonder why he didn’t mention other more recent relevant instances of game throwing… such as teams did against Man U in last seasons run in?
They don’t miss a bloody chance do they. They have no shame what they dig up to beat Rafa with. So is it any wonder that the likes of BM and his disciples are brain washed into believing this shit.
Oh well… hats off to Dave Basset in the pundits chair though. He made quite a lot of sense tonight, and flatly refused to slag off or write off Liverpool even though he was cajoled into it a few times. Good on you Dave Sir. No wonder it’s not often he is on there.
Pity some of our so called own would rather bite the hand that fed them just so they can keep their own noses in the trough.
|
 #91 |
rome77
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 1:27 am
Well once again bad luck and bad referee’s have kicked us when we’re down. And once again some “supporters” have kicked us when we’re down. But more importantly G&H failed to get into the ground which is one strong message the usual media f*cks decided not to advertise. Why is that ?
Gerry
While you spent the weekend in England,i went the other way to Co Cavern and got talking football with some cousins whom i’d never met before,the first thing they asked what did i think of Benitez ? and that they thought he was good,then they pointed out the media have got it in for him and Scousers,although they didnt really follow football it seemed to me that these “neutral’s” could only see the obvious and looked at things without bias or passion so to me there opinion carries a lot of weight as its something we find hard to do.
Then again one of them said i dont have to lock my car door as there’s
“no crime here”
Had to laugh the next day when 2 cashpoint machines where stolen from the banks in the town,
YNWA
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 #92 |
rome77
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 1:52 am
As for some of the “supporters” who post on here i think i’ve found out what they are.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Troll Best to ignore them.
Bad luck,Bad referee’s, teams rolling over for the Mancs,”favours” for the mancs from David Gills FA, and loads of transfer money for the Mancs.
Sure is a uphill task for us to win the PL.
YNWA
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 #93 |
Aitch
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 2:30 am
Did anyone see Rafa’s pre-match press conference?
How anyone can dislike the man is beyond me. He handles himself with such dignity given his situation.
|
 #94 |
Sun King
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 3:22 am
First off, thank you for the positive feedback to my unnecessarily lengthy first post here at KopBlog (in the previous blog’s comments). I’ll try to keep this one slightly shorter, but I make no promises.
The overall inspiration was the whole supporters vs. “supporters” dialogue, and I can see that this is still a ripe fruit to pick at — and probably will be for as long as LFC must tread through stormy seas.
I’m not yet ready to brand anyone on this forum a total lost cause. Different people deal with frustration and disappointment in different ways. Often times people are so disheartened that they just want to see some major change — ANY change really — and then hope that this shake-up will provide a remedy of sorts. And that is why many are quick to call for the manager’s head when things aren’t going so well.
The only problem here is that this idea is typically not thought through all the way. Let’s say you’re in with the crowd that wants to sack Rafa. Even if you’re unable to provide solid reasons for your taking this position — and I have yet to hear anyone make any sort of convincing argument to that effect — you must at least be able to shed some light on how things will significantly improve if Rafa is removed.
Okay, sack Rafa. But as many have asked, then what?
The counter-points to Pako have already been made, and I find it quite shocking that this idea was even entertained. At this point, we’re just throwing things at the wall and hoping they stick, aren’t we? Honestly, who is going to replace Rafa Benitez, and what can he possibly do with a squad that isn’t fully fit and with owners who offer him no support? How would a new manager be any more qualified or capable of pulling a rabbit out of a hat?
Like many in here, I’m waiting to hear who this new genius to take the reins of Liverpool might be and learn all about the brilliance of his plan. All I can say to Rafa’s critics is that you cannot possibly stoop to a “couldn’t do much worse” argument and expect others to see the logic in it.
Unfortunately, the people who control many of the vehicles of mass communication are, for whatever reason, largely against Rafa Benitez. There is an OBVIOUS bias in mainstream media, and this much is clear. Why else would it ignore what happened to Hicks and Gillette? Had that demonstration been in protest of Rafa, the headlines would have been everywhere.
Even more unfortunately, the average human being is easily controlled and will believe whatever you tell him to believe. Now, I always thought Liverpool supporters were slightly more intelligent than average humans and average football fans. But I guess if all you’re watching is Sky Sports, then maybe you can’t be blamed for having the opinion you have. You’re being force fed bowl after bowl of shit, and if that’s the only thing on the menu, you’re not going to choose to starve, are you? So at this point you’ve trained yourself to accept shit as a sustainable diet.
My advise to these people — stop being lazy. Figure out who the credible sources are, draw conclusions from every outlet of information available, and generate your own conclusions. Stop accepting everything that some pundits pull out of their arses. Just because there are many of them, and just because they are all saying the same thing doesn’t make them logical. All they’re really paid to do is to take an extreme position on every issue in order to make it seem dramatic and relevant.
Look, the supporters must work as hard as the players and the manager. That doesn’t mean purchasing a shiny new Torres shirt, learning some of the words to “You’ll Never Walk Alone,” celebrating loudly when we win, and simply moaning when we lose. It means staying informed and supporting the club through and through. If it’s time for a change or a new direction, okay, everyone is listening. But now is not the time for that. We have to realize that just because we’re going through an awful stretch of results, it doesn’t mean that getting rid of the manager will fix things. In fact, given the current instability of our club, I agree with the people who say we couldn’t possibly do anything worse than that at the moment.
Based on what we’ve learned and continue to learn, most of us are going to stand by the manager who took us to the brink of winning the league last season and who brought us our fifth European Cup. He won it with Houllier’s squad, you say? Then why couldn’t Houllier win with his own squad?
Plain and simple, Rafa Benitez is a brilliant manager. And if you give him a healthy squad, he is going to give you a competitive football team. Lord knows what he would accomplish if you gave him the funds to improve his squad as he sees fit. And until that happens, is there any point in even asking, “What’s the latest on the transfer front?” The answer? Either nothing, or maybe some patchwork players who we hope can get the job done. Is that improvement? No. Is that Rafa’s fault? No.
I could never really attribute anything to flat out luck, but the breaks this season haven’t been kind to us. We just need some things to go our way. Some matches a team can play dismally and still get away with it — that hasn’t really happened at all. Some matches a team can do a lot of things right and still end up on the losing side — that’s happened quite a few times. Overall, it’s not like the quality of our play could be described as shocking or appalling. It hasn’t been top drawer, but mostly, the results simply haven’t been there. I just find it very difficult to identify a single culprit or even a couple specific culprits to pin the poor results on. And I’m talking about key persons and key moments, not just a general theme that might be marketed as a legitimate perception.
There is no real way to put a positive spin on our season thus far. But at the same time, there are no easily identifiable factors where we can say, “This is something we had total control over, and here is exactly how it went wrong.” Show me that, and then show me how to fix it. I’ll do my best to nominate you as Rafa’s successor.
Since you can’t, all it means is that the club has a very tough task at hand. And based on its character and its background — particularly Rafa Benitez’s — I trust entirely that this will get sorted out without much of an extensive overhaul.
I don’t claim to know what the team needs mentally or tactically. I just know that right now, more than ever, they need our undivided support.
P.S. Aitch, at #93 right above, I’ve wonderered the same thing for a very long time now. Just another thing that makes me wrinkle my brow when people are so quick to lambast him. Imagine what they’d be saying if he was a total twat. Speaking of that… our friend ale-swiggin’ Alex, manager of the Scum, is a total twat. Why is it that hardly anyone slags him off?
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 #95 |
Gerry
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 5:05 am
I actually think burgervan might be on to something but he’s just got the wrong guy. Djimi Traore is the man we’ve been missing, we’ve won bugger all since he left. Bring back Bambi I say, that moron Benitez should never have sold him in the first place.
Actually let’s get rid of that waster Torres while we’re at it. We’ve won fuck all since he’s been here so let’s sell him and use the funds to bring back Cisse as well. Damn I can’t believe I’ve been so blind!
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 #96 |
Bayo
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 5:22 am
Well said Sun King but there’s one flaw in your argument. You applied logical reasoning. I’ve learned from experience that the application of logic is not as common as we may like to believe. That’s why you read some dumb ass comments from certain people who think sacking Rafa will save the ozone layer.
Gerry, you forgot to mention the ‘next Zidane’ Bruno Cheyrou or the ‘next Vieira’ Salif Diao. Whilst we’re at it, why not sell Daniel Agger and use the money to bring back Torben Piecnick? Afterall Piechnik was signed by Graeme Souness, the man who seems to have all the answers to LFC’s problems.
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 #97 |
satyromaniaman
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 5:27 am
#44- what’s wrong with Degen who is a quick overlapping right back in a three man defence with johnson a natural right back in front of him who is able to cover him and masch manning the field in front of the back 3?
What’s wrong with Carra leading two young promising defenders?
What’s wrong with Insua? You got a better left back in the line up? I say the 3 man defend with a good team effort to defend from up field is the way we play best.
#50 Istanbul – exactly my point! But u cant seem to agree with ur OWN points. You agree with the fact that we played with a 3 man defence, the introduction of hamann allowed stevie g to do more damage …( probably after the dust settled in Istanbul against one of the meanest defences and a top notch striker ) but u wont agree with the same ( different names but the role is similiar ) line up. Please…
Didi made the difference…hence Masch is in that role stated in the line up, so that Stevie G can do more damage. What’s ur point? Are you saying we shouldnt allow stevie g the free role while having a holding midfielder behind him? what?
#57 he’s so funny
#58 yup digger, aquilani is like stop and go for now so we’ll have to make do with 10… hahahaha my bad… this happens even to managers eh? sure gonna get lots of stick for this…
#75 Degen and Riera are actually fit enough to play and coming into match fitness. It’s really miraculous they are not playing… amazing stuff. Truly… healed and ready to go… touch of god.
Pako was a loss. But we have managed without him and he cannot possibly be the reason for the poor results- injuries, esp not when he had left eons ago and the team still managed to get decent results…
ok ok revised… will try the 11 man team woohooo
i get an extra man to my already unstoppable, indestructable, devastating line up.
——————-1.Reina——————
——————-2.Carra——————
——-3.Degen——————4.Insua—–
————–5.Masch—-11.Aquilani——–
6.Johnson——–7.Stevie G———-8.Riera
————————-9.Benny————
—————10.Torres——————–
Let me count them…ooops missed one…
correcting now.
There you go, the absolute superb team that will win the premiership come may 2010. Aquilani will give LFC the mega super duper boost like those nitrox stuff in fast and furious cars racing… just press the button at the right moment…
the stage is set… now is the time… we shall create the best most memorable premiership glory ever … just press it..press it…
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 #98 |
Redneck
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 5:36 am
gerry #95
ba-da-boom.
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 #99 |
Aitch
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 7:56 am
Oh dear Satyr… and here I thought that post was your attempt at irony.
That team won’t win the Premiership in 2010… simply because it’ll be playing in the fuckin championship.
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 #100 |
RedManiac
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 7:57 am
#97
I am lost for words……..how old are you anyway?
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 #101 |
somnath07in
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 9:30 am
@Aitch
#60
When i said ‘Let’s leave it that’ i meant i dont want to examine whether his loss is the reason for our poor form. I wanted to leave it that because to me its irrelevant.
Why i said i am not sure whether BM is correct or wrong is because its a fact that ever since Pako left we have not won. What Gerry has said in his post about Traore is a fact too. But these facts are irrelevant to me and hence lets leave it at that.
What you have explained might be true.
#74
That post answers my question. Thanks.
@ FS
#61
You can continue with your silly comments. I am not here to do what you keep telling. I will be critical because i can see us slipping out of the top 4 if things dont improve from here on. That does not make a anti LFC person. That does not mean that i am not a fan of this club. Surely i support the manager. At LFC can we afford to be going for such a long barren run? Can we loose so many matches? There is some bench marks right?
You are very quick to criticize me. As far as my suggestion as to what should be done..i have already mentioned..gimme some time. I will surely come up with that.
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 #102 |
Skeat
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 9:58 am
How about this lineup?
———–Reina————
——– Carra — Dagger ——-
Johnson——-Monster ——–Aurelio
———Gerrard —— Benny ———-
—————-Aquaman——————
———–Torres ——Babel ————
Subs:
Lucas
Riera
Cavalieri
Ngog
Pacheco
Insua
Ninja
….in a diamond formation, where Babel is used as a striker? Johnson and Aurelio/ Insua as overlapping fullbacks, Gerrard can go right occasionally to provide crosses and cover for Johnson, and Benny to do the same for Aurelio..
(Though I feel that Babel will be sold to god-knows-where during the january transfer window)
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 #103 |
steve the red
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 10:09 am
Skeat, Is Babel fit then?
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 #104 |
steve the red
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 10:15 am
Saty, the only thing you’ll be pressing is a self destruct button!
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 #105 |
Skeat
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 10:26 am
If he is not.. then…
Kuyt to play alongside Torres
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 #106 |
KeithSA
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 10:50 am
Nice Post Sun King. Gerry since we have had Hicks and Gillette we have won fuck all as well. Personal I think we are missing Biscan sell Gerrard and bring him back problems solved.
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 #107 |
Decstarr
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 11:33 am
@ somnath07in re #101:
You are very quick to criticize me. As far as my suggestion as to what should be done..i have already mentioned..gimme some time. I will surely come up with that……LMFAO!!! ROTFD!! aka Laugh my fucking ass off!! Roll on the Floor dying!! Are you for real!! Give u time!! How about you do Rafa and the boys the same courtesy?!! Talk about hypocrisy!! My god we don’t stand a chance in the long term with fans like this!! Help!!!
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 #108 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 12:11 pm
Well, big game tonight. It very much depends on what Wigan turn up. I hope it’s the one Spurs battered. But it won’t be… it will be the one that always plays us – the one with no one up front, flooding the mid-field, kicking lumps out of Torres, and fighting like their very lives depend on it.
Nothing new there then. In fact, it will make good practice for the rest of the season – as that is how 98% of teams will play against us. And you can’t blame them for that. All the lower teams will look at getting at least a point at Anfield, especially with the season we are having. And they will do what Wolves done last night when they play the Mancs and Chavs.
Just the way it is. I’d probably do the same if I was staring relegation in the face. A manager’s duty is to his own team, nobody elses.
Oh well at least they won’t have that Zaki fella to score any wonder goals against us this time round. So, if the legs are getting there, I can only see one result… a frustrating, hard fought, home win.
#97: Satyromanian… that sort of line up is the sort of line up that you certainly would try in a cup final when you are getting beat. But it would be madness to try and play our way out of this slump in the league like that.
The problem is the goals we have leaked. But that’s really no wonder. We have had to use 17 different line ups in the 24 games we have played so far. So, it’s now time to get a settled back line, dig in and get back to the basics of what made us the meanest defence in the league.
For me that means, Johnson, Carra, Agger, Insua or Aurelio. Johnson is the best we have got. A few decent minutes/runs/crosses by Degen doesn’t mean we can relie upon him with not much coverage ahead. Carra has struggled but has played well in the last few games, so he should get the nod ahead of Skrtle. Agger, goes without saying really. But remember this… the lad is left footed, so compliments Carra who, well lets just say he isn’t left footed. Insua/Aurelio either or, just depends on fitness and who they are facing.
Honestly mate, it’s imperative we get a solid platform now. Any team in this league is capable of beating any other on thier day. Look at the Mancs and Chavs loss column. So, especially after the season we have had, we need to get some stability and consistency back there.
In fact, we need to do the same all over the park. Once a few wins are strung together, no matter how scrappy or ugle, confidence will return, legs will feel lighter, and the performances will come back. We saw a glimpse of that on Sunday. Just a shame these two fixtures weren’t the other way round – Wigan then Arsenal. We’d have probably took all six points then. But we’ve got to get on with it.
Thought it best to just ignore the usual nonsense. But this needs to be said…
#101… “You are very quick to criticize me. As far as my suggestion as to what should be done..i have already mentioned..gimme some time. I will surely come up with that.”
Quick to criticise you… No lad. I just ignore you now. But no ones asking you to be quick. There’s no rush lad. No rush….
Keep working on the plan. And just keep throwing wobblers at every setback, getting some critiscism for it, get obscene to anyone who criticises you, cause a few days worth of arguments, mellow out a little, post some reasonable stuff, try to look as if you’ve always been like that, blame other people, complain about how they’ve treated you and then start it all again after the next set back…
Why not it’s what you’ve always done. And they say consistency is a virtue, eh.
Or, tell you what, seeing you obviously didn’t bother to read some history and facts on our club as recommended by lots of people to help you, why not read The Boy Who Cried Wolf. There’s a big clue in there for you lad.
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 #109 |
theredman
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 12:13 pm
Aitch,FS,Lb,
and anybody else who can help me, just seen Macarthy getting interviewed on sky and he says he does’nt care what the reaction is to fielding 10 reserves last night, did’nt he hear the Wolves faithful singing £42 quid to watch the reserves over and over again.
But my main point being how the fuck can you in one match beat spurs away then run out ten reserves in the next match (the mancs conveniently) to save his first team for the match against Burnley.
I hope they deduct 10 points of the cunt, fuck me what will Warnock the wanker think of all this as he still has’nt forgiven LFC.
YNWA.
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 #110 |
Decstarr
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 12:42 pm
@ theredman
mate its disgusting that’s what it is! Its typical of what Steven Gerrard touched on last year about team going to play Manu and treating it like they’ve lost before a ball is kicked!! its that sort of attitude that has handed them wins on so many occasions. When we beat them and scored 4 goals last season Gerrard mentioned that it may just be what the rest of the league needed to see….so they can believe they can beat manu….obviously Macarthy missed that class!
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 #111 |
steve the red
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 12:48 pm
Warnock won’t say fuck all about it redman, he’s one of those mouth pieces who is out to have a go at Rafa and LFC with any opportunity he gets.
What really riles me is that these fuckers will be creaming themselves over the terrible run we are in at the moment, which makes me even more desperate to watch the team ram their words down their throats.
McCarthy fielding a reserve 11? It just had to be the Mancs who would benefit from it, didn’t it?
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 #112 |
Diggerno.10
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 12:58 pm
Gotta win tonight. A draw will see the pressure mount. A loss? After Rafas gurantees yesterday? Forget about it… My team would be: Pepe, Johnson, Carra, Dagger, Insua, Benny, Masch, Aquilani, Aurelio, Stevie, Nando. As I say, gotta win so no 2 holding midfielders tonight, no underperforming converted defensive right midfielders. Attack and dont stop til the fucken job is done this time. And when you are 2 or 3 nil up THEN bring on your Lucas’ and your Kyuts. Its all your chips on the table time…
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 #113 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 1:17 pm
I don’t think it was wise for Rafa to guarantee a top 4 finish.
As for tonight I read that Johnson is doubtful. These new physios that we have after sacking the previous ones. What kind of job are they doing? It’s not simply bad luck half the bleeding squad is permanently crocked surely?
Wigan got slaughtered 9-1 against Spurs. So should we struggle to create any chances against them I don’t want to hear that they have a good side. They have conceded 4 against Portsmouth, 3 against Birmingham, 4 against Arsenal… Even Blackpool beat them 4-1 in the league cup!
The players need to perform like they mean it. For 90 mins.
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 #114 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 1:20 pm
Oh yeah and the mancs beat Wigan 5-1 as well. They did beat the chavs (God knows how) but that was at home.
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 #115 |
SonOfAKhan
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 1:21 pm
Like what my late elder brother (a Liverpool fanatic) used to say: the oppositions always show up when they play us. Probably they get the same kick out of it when they beat us with doing Fergie a favour.
Not that I am complaining that much, but it is getting too tiresome for me to explain and fend off the attacks from ‘fellow’ supporters. Quite stressful too sometimes when you come across fans who just refuse to understand the circumstances we are in.
As for Pako leaving us and since then we have not won anything, how about getting rid of the fans who started supporting us since 1991? They have jinxed us man…
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 #116 |
bhavster
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 1:22 pm
SOAK – how about getting rid of the fans who started supporting us since 1991? – Brilliant!
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 #117 |
SonOfAKhan
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 1:23 pm
I hope you know it was meant as a sarcasm bhavster
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 #118 |
Diggerno.10
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 1:25 pm
Exxxxxactly LB.
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 #119 |
Decstarr
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 1:37 pm
I hope we win tonight as I’m sure we all do, I do agree that teams bring their ‘A’ game when the come to play us its like a cup final for them, and our proud history and the greatness of the club is why…..and so it should be. The boys have to match that tonight….on Shankly’s night where we should show everything we are about. I 100% beleive they will, and win, draw…..or lose…. I’m still gonna wake up tomorrow morning a Red, loving LFC regardless of what ever the media or the negatrons throw our way!
I’ve come to a realisation that it doesn’t really matter what happens, there will always be those armchair managers, fickle fans and media so called gurus who will have something bad to say about us. The plain fact is were not Manu, and our manager isn’t fergerscum! or Wenger so I say let them hate us…let them spew their vile propaganda! Red I still stand!!
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 #120 |
SonOfAKhan
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 1:49 pm
Another poor attempt at sarcasm bhavster..
Anyways, what really mindboggles me is some of these ‘fans’ are actually happy when we falter because it proves their argument. They do not want to listen to the facts that for a team to succeed nowadays, it needs strong backing of funds, not only for buying players but also for paying high wages to make them happy enough to warm the bench.
It was mentioned by Rafa Benitez himself that the priority this year was to take care of the debt situation in LFC. That means Rafa needed and will need to sell to buy and to sell to increase the players wages when we offer them new contracts. That also means Rafa would need to sell to service the debts to keep the club afloat. I wonder who he is going to sell in the summer because we need to pay our debts.
Here we have a manager who just signed a new five-year contract knowing the situation beforehand and agreed with the owners. So, even if Rafa did not sign the extension, some other manager would have done the same and that manager would have been facing the same kind of problems Rafa is facing in relation to funds for players. So, how different would things be then? But what is important in this aspect is we do not become another Leeds United. And we should be backing the team and the manager to ensure we qualify for the CL next season. Clearly this added pressure on the team is not needed at this moment.
And those are all understatements of the year.
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 #121 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 2:03 pm
LB, loads of lads are moaning about the new physios, especially when talking about the duff info on Aquilani. I don’t think it’s as cut and dried as that.
I think it’s been a freakish year, but also think the cause is easily identified… to much bloody football. Simple.
Nando Gerrard, wrecked seasons by stupid – but money raising – internationals. And it’s not only us. Look at what happened to Van Persie and even worse Ashton. It’s bloody criminal. It needs to be stopped but it’s insatiable and will only get worse. And the top teams will suffer most as they have international players from every corner of the planet.
Dead end discussion that though. What I would like to say is exactly what I said earlier…
Hope for one by all means, I am, but don’t expect a walk in the park tonight.
Martinez is no mug. He’ll know exactly how to play us tonight… expect to face the Wigan that faced Chelsea, not the one that lied down for the Mancs or got turned over by Spurs.
My worry is, if it isn’t 3 nil with 10 minutes gone, the crowd will start the sort of shit that I never dreamt I’d see in Anfield. That will transmit onto the pitch, and the job will get even harder.
At this stage, 1 nil off the shin of God will still do for me.
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 #122 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 2:05 pm
SOAK, I think Bhavster was being straight and thought it was brilliant. I did. Bit harsh on the young good fellas though, and believe it or not, there are some great young Reds who know the score and are very loyal aswell as knowledgable.
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 #123 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 2:08 pm
Oh and Sun King… very well put sir. It obviously took some time and effort, but I hate to tell you this…
You’re wasting your time.
Those who could learn from reading that will just ignore it and carry on regardless.
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 #124 |
SonOfAKhan
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 2:18 pm
FS, I did not mean to be harsh on the young fellas and if I did, I would like to apologise sincerely. Just tried to be sarcastic, that’s all. Maybe I should have said something like “I started my current job in 1990 and should quit because since then we have not won the title”. A bit daft there but then again it is not something we have not come across before.
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 #125 |
roarin-red
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 2:31 pm
Digger that’s the exact team I’d like to see out there tonight. Hopefully johnson is ok as he’ll be looking to make amends for sunday.
Normally hearing wolves have rested 10 player(against the filth) would make my blood boil but I’m just so focused on getting a good couple of results I’m willing to let that slide for now.
However one haunting factor and its a real concern is that man u are sitting right where they like to be going into the christmas period, and they usually hit a great patch of decent football an I’m expecting that to happen when the ACoN start.
For them to land no.19 this season given the way our season is panning out is just a fucking horrible thing to contemplate. So i really hope arsenal and chelsea stay hot on their heels because last thing i want to see is them running away with it.
Anyway back to us regardless how teams may think we’re there for the taking and how much they may try to stifle us we have to be able to turn that in our favour after all we have the players to be killing teams. So should they try and sit back they’ll still be thinking we can nick this one and thats were we want the likes of torres’s sharpness to punish them and punish them bad.
Catch them on the counter every time they venture forward and should we be a goal or two to the good then bombard them when they have to come at us. A great moral boosting win tonight will then get the likes of portsmouth worried and then they’ll be the ones shitten it about which liverpool team is gonna turn up.
“Our fowler that art in heaven,let us win thy game”
YNWA
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 #126 |
somnath07in
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 2:53 pm
@Decstarr
Keep Laughing.
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 #127 |
bhavster
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 3:02 pm
SOAK – yeah i know, i thought that comment was hilarious!
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 #128 |
Diggerno.10
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 3:07 pm
Yeah heres hoping Roarin. Its the team that will in my opinion give us our best chance to win. They’re a championship bound team who ship 3 or 4 goals a game. They’ll have 10 men behind the ball tonight. We’re at home, onus is on us to be proactive, not reactive. Get at em early and often and dont stop til they’re fucken hommered (i.e mentally defeated). At 2 or 3 nil then bring on Lucas and Dirk to shore it up. Theres must win games and theres must win games and then theres tonight.
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 #129 |
bigbry
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 3:41 pm
I cant see him changing much. After all we battered Arsenal in the first half. Wenger admit ted as much. Had we have been playing with confidence it would have been a painful experience and long journey home for Arsenal. alas a streaky own goal (which wouldnt have happened with a confident Johnson) the confidence shatters and we fold like a house of cards. Confidence is key in any sport, have it, and you have an ability to excede your usual standard, if you dont have it then even easy run of the mill tasks seem fraught with danger.
I agree with FS a skinny 1-0 win will do for me. That said, I would love to see score an early goal and then put Wigan to the sword, and rebuild some confidence.
Form is temporary, class is permanent.
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 #130 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 3:42 pm
SOAK, I think it was funny. But I was just saying that all young Reds aren’t kneejerk idiots. In fact, there’s some great young lads. But anyway, I was just saying I thought it was funny and there is more than a little bit of truth in it.
As for all the expectations people have for tonight, I think it’s ridiculous and I expect it all to start again tomorrow if these demands aren’t met by a team that’s clearly still suffering mentally and physically.
As I said earlier, I’m really hoping it clicks tonight and we see the Red crushing machine we seen at the end of last season.
But whatever happens, I’ll keep the belief that once all the troubles are behind us, that’s exactly what we’ll be seeing soon.
Simply because, that’s how Rafa likes to play his football. That’s how he wants us to play. That’s the football he’s worked towards. And that’s the football we’ve showed we can play.
I’m not bigging it up, or making some daft tub thumping rallying call. I’m just stating me beliefs, and the fact is, I’ve also seen it all before…
Rafa’s aiming for a modern day version of Shankly’s invicibles that wouldn’t get beat by a team from Mars. Or as they say nowadays, in the phrase they invented for Rafa’s style – A Crushing Machine.
And as much as the game has changed, it’s still a pretty simple plan and not far removed from Shank’s formula…
Good players in every position playing simple pass and move. Top class goalie. Two big lads in front of him – one a ball player, one and out and out destroyer.
Two lads in front of them, one a destroyer, one a link up player – but who can interchange and play each other’s role.
Good attacking full backs that can raid high up the pitch. In front of them, 2 hard working wingers that can not only do all the attacking requirments but also track back and help out – defend high up the pitch, from the front.
A top class front man with a deeper lying partner.
The names might have changed… Center forward/Striker, Inside forward/Second Striker, Holding mid/Sweeper, and so on.
And the likes of Andy Grey with his little pen might like to complicate things with his doodles and make up new phrases…
Pull the trigger. Second ball and all that.
And the game might have got quicker, but the fact is – it’s still the simplest of games.
11 decent fit players, no need for out and out an out stars, a team. A team that can do the basics, pass and move at a high tempo, but with enough class to do the un-predictable. Always be open for the ball when we’ve got it. Always make sure they aren’t when we haven’t. Defend from the front. Attack from the back.
If you can’t just go out and buy all the cogs for the machine. Like Shankly had to, you have to build it slowly, patiently and carefully, and put all the pieces together as and when you can.
Well, Rafa has now built us a very good squad of interchangeable players that can play that way, but also adapt and offer other possibilities when needed.
In other words, he’s trying to put together something that has all the possibilities that he loves… plan B, C and D, a sort of total football playing team.
This is what he’s aiming at. This is what he’s on the verge of delivering. It might have suffered a set back. And it’s probably took longer than he would have liked to build. But I’m convinced it’s on the verge of this, and I haven’t seen a single thing to change that belief from any of the people that think it isn’t working.
Shame that really, as I’d love someone to be able to show me it’s all wrong and what should be done to put it right.
But, except for the end of last season when they all changed band wagons and their tunes, I’ve been waiting for three seasons now.
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 #131 |
bigbry
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 3:47 pm
Meant to say, I would like to the game put to bed early and see what Aquilani can do, without any pressure. I was at the Fiorintina game and was impressed with his quick incisive passing. I think he will prove to be an excellent signing
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 #133 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 4:36 pm
I hope not Knight me old mate. I really hope not.
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 #134 |
bigbry
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 4:57 pm
Almost as bad as Mourinho coming to Liverpool
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 #135 |
theredman
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 5:15 pm
Why not Horses jaws FS,
i’d love to see the kipper on shitty arse if he did, let’s be honest he was scoring 25-30 goals a season for that shower of shit until shitty arse had a fall out with him so i’d love to see if he could help Nando out as we all know that is Nando’s problem having to go it alone when he is fit, dont get me wrong it would feel a bit uncomfortable but if it is ok for Ince then why not.
YNWA.
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 #136 |
Redscouse
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 5:22 pm
A Big Night at Anfield Tonight.Wish I could be there as they honour Bill Shankly. What a Manager
he was and what a job he did of turning a Liverpool team that was wallowing in the old second division into the most feared Team in Europe.I had the priviledge of Being at Anfield when we won the Second Division Championship and
returned back to the First Division. Sorry to hear about Alan A’Court’s passing , he was a “nice man” and a very good player.
Let’s hope the players rise to the occasion and put on a performance to match the Evening.
” Thanks for the Memories Shanks”
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 #137 |
satyromaniaman
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 5:34 pm
#102 Skeat I like that too.. with Insua not Aurelio as Insua provides width and pace plus a steady defend.Johnson, tho a defender, I think would do better attacking with his pace skill and even eye for goal.
#100 wheeee 
#105 NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
#108 altho I agree FS that the line up is the sort of line up where its all or nothing, i do believe we can play this at least for 60 mins in the premiership and then revert to the “safer” route instead of starting with the safer route and then trying to catch up and finding out that we do not have the creativity/chances/teeth whatever towards the end, lsee players losing hope halfway etc. esp so when the players tire.
Agger is a gem, a player who can carry the ball as well as one packing a mean shot. Good for set pieces, and an aerial threat. He’s my only sacrifice to compensate for width and pace. He’ll be used towards the end of the game mainly for strengthening the defence and/or to provide another route to goal. At the moment I would pick a line up with players that has skill, creativity and an eye for goal. Wingers with the same attributes but with pace.
WE have to take the game from the start. Attack and score.
#112 Agreed!!!!
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 #138 |
SonOfAKhan
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 5:43 pm
A Big Night at Anfield Tonight. Sigh…FS, how I wish I were a multi-billionnaire so I could kick out the current owners. As it is, I am still waiting for the time I could afford to go abroad, not to Paris or Rome, but to Liverpool.
Saw this today, don’t know what is to come out of this if it were true:
ttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/premierleague/liverpool/6820120/Liverpool-co-owners-George-Gillett-and-Tom-Hicks-to-gain-124m-from-potential-share-deal.html
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 #139 |
An Linn
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 5:46 pm
Just back and have scanned through the comments – gutted I couldn’t make it to the Arsenal game but fuck it onwards and upwards,
Ha Ha – Its all Paco’s fault for leaving – burgerman your gas, keep it up
I also see sombody wants to play with only one centre half – interesting, interesting
Van-Horseface to Liverpool – if he could be kept free from injury mightn’t be the worst piece of business in the world – i’d perfer somebody young that we could mould but with the dire straits we’re in could be a good stop gap
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 #140 |
ignorant_red
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 5:50 pm
First time commenting on the internet. just wanted to say i am behind our manager and his players. will be up at 4am to watch the game.
I agree in order to score we need to attack, but we also need to have a balance where we are able to contain the opponent’s attack and control the tempo of the game.
I believe lucas and kuyt do bring that necessary balance. They might not be the most exciting to watch for most, but they work hard, never go missing when the game is not going our way and always find space to receive the ball and keep it moving.
-Storm Walker
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 #141 |
Sun King
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 5:56 pm
As a KopBlog reader for the past two years, I’ve watched the majority of you try to get through to the doom-and-gloomers for quite some time. And I’ve seen that it’s about as useful as slamming your forehead into stone wall.
I will persist for two reasons. (1) We need as many voices as possible in support of Rafa and the club so that these naysayers don’t pick up any momentum. (2) Perhaps I naively think I can get through to these people with a fresh perspective.
Their arguments have been countered, their conjecture debunked by facts, their suggestions exposed as nonsense. You lads have done all that work. All I’m saying to them is to take a look at themselves.
Don’t listen to us. Don’t let us convince you. Do the work yourself, and I promise you’ll arrive at the conclusion that we’ve reached.
Many of you have said it already, and it’s probably what bothers me the most. It seems that some of these people get more joy out of a Liverpool loss so they can play the “I told you so” card than they do out of a win.
Again, I’m more inclined to put this down to different people dealing with things in their own ways. Perhaps they are so gutted by the loss that they’re just searching for anything to make them feel better. Unfortunately, all they’ve got to hang onto is trying to tell people they’ve been right all along. Well, what does that accomplish?
Come on, aside from maybe getting off on winding others up, you must realize that you’re only causing more pain for yourself. So what if you ARE right? And you aren’t, but let’s pretend you are. So you would rather be personally correct than have the club you support be successful? Because that’s what your actions and words say about your character.
Moving on… I’d have preferred if Rafa had avoided making the top 4 guarantee, but I think he’s sensing the moment as well. Even if he hadn’t said it, if we’re not in that position by season’s end, people are going to cry bloody murder and try to run him out of town. He probably sees this as a moment of truth for himself. At least his statement demonstrates that we’re never going to lose our nerve and that we refuse to settle for ongoing mediocrity.
Van Nistlerooy? I don’t really have an opinion on the matter. Just another case of the manager not being able to get the players he actually wants and having to fall back on Plans B, C, and D.
Fat Scouser, spot on at #130. It’s crystal clear for me what Rafa is working to build. We all saw this in action and nearing its top form and consistency last season, but people have very short memories.
Satyromaniaman, who is going to provide any additional cover whatsoever for Carra when balls are sent into the box through the air? What happens if we concede a couple of early goals? Do we take Carra off because he’s the least offensive player and throw on a forward since we need to score? I’m sorry to say, mate, but your lineup and formation do not make much sense.
We can play attacking football with 4 defenders. It’s a matter of tactics. We need to put our best personnel in the best positions to succeed, and we need those players to be able to adapt to the slightly different shapes that the game may take.
Moving forward and upward, I’d also like to see a decidedly attack-minded lineup out there against Wigan. That said, we don’t know all the intimate details when it comes to the squad’s fitness.
Aquilani was fit enough to start against Arsenal. But is he now able to give us 75-80 minutes of tenacity and strength three days after the fact? At this point, if he’s truly and fully fit, I’d like to see him get some starts over Lucas, particularly against sides like Wigan.
Ultimately, it will be nice when the boss can have three fully fit and reliable CMs to choose from, look at the opposition, and decide which of the Aquilani-Masch, Lucas-Masch, or Aquilani-Lucas pairings will be most effective.
This match is a very important one for us — and let’s be honest, every match from now on will be the most important of the season — and I’ve got a pretty good feeling that better results will come our way starting today.
We’ve got Wigan, Portsmouth, then Wolves. For now let’s focus on one game at a time, but let’s also realize that this is a great opportunity to put a nice string of results together and build some confidence leading up to a crucial match against Villa.
Come on, you Reds!
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 #142 |
somnath07in
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 6:23 pm
@Sun King
Great post.
Whatever you said is true. I myself have gone through phases when i have felt like that a change is required. But after analyzing the situation i find it difficult to find another person who can do a better job than Rafa.
I keep telling myself that the squad Rafa inherited was in a much poorer shape then what it is at present. However i dont understand how we are going to compete for the top honours? The debt and the financial condition is such that everytime we need to sell before buying. Rafa needs to gamble with second or third choice players.This is certianly not an efficient business model. The emergence of Man City as a better team and a financial super power coupled with the rise of Villa and Tottenham has made it even more important for us to be able to flex our financial muscle when needed.
What do you make of that? How are we preparing ourselves to meet these challenges?
For today’s match..yes its a must win. Its crucial to win our matches running up to the Villa clash.
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 #143 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 6:47 pm
RedScouse I didn’t realise you went back that far. I take me hat off to you mate… I wish I could just get through to some people what LFC came from, what they was built from, and how they became what they are today.
I’ve explained our history and even told them how Everton, then known as the Mersey Millionares, walked out of Anfield, leaving us with an empty shithouse of a stadium and not even a team to put on the pitch. I’ve even given them links to things on the PC that will explain where we came from and how we became what we are.
I’ve tried telling people that Liverpool isn’t some mega sized city like London, Birmingham or Manchester. I’ve tried telling them it is really about the size of Newcastle, Southampton, Bristol and so on.
I explained that the one thing that turned us into a beast of a club, was finding the right man to wake the sleeping giant and, not only giving him enough time to get the job done, but to lift him and the players when that job seemed impossible.
I explained how our never-say-die support at the hardest of times gave Shankly the platform and time to build this club. I’ve explained the Liverpool Way over and over. It’s pissing in the wind.
They have no respect for the tradition and history. They think those that made them traditions are silly old duffers. And they just don’t understand what could happen to LFC, even though you only have to look at all the giants that have died, going back to the times of Huddersfield and carrying right on to Leeds.
And of course, there’s always the deluded Geordies to laugh at with their ridiculous demands, that they honestly think should be met – as they are a big team just because they say so. And then you can see what chopping and changing managers got them.
So Sun King mate, you feel free to do what you want, but a quick spot of advice… it’s an absolute waste of time and a thankless task, that will soon bring abuse, no matter how civil, patient and logical you are.
Redman… I’m not arsed because he was a Manc. In fact, if I believed he could still do it, I’d see that as a bonus, just to piss them off. (How must Micheal Owen feel when they sing… Micheal Owen is a red. He hates Scousers… for fuck’s sake the lad’s mam and dad are). But anyway, I just think he’s past it mate, and I think we made that mistake before with Morientes. And I also think he just wouldn’t suit us… he was a lazy goal hanger in his hey day. He hardly moves at all nowadays.
Bollacks to it anyway… decorating duties tonight for the grandkids tonight. They’ve got me demented, turning the house into Santa’s bloody grotto.
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 #144 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 6:50 pm
Sorry lads. I know I should be bigger but, 141, ffs it’s hilarious… “Oh, yes you did. Oh, no I never! Look out, he’s behind you!”
Panto season started early then, eh.
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 #145 |
Redscouse
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 7:20 pm
FS..Funny story how I became a Red and not a Blue.
” my oldest brother (i’m youngest of six boys 1 Girl)he comes home on leave from Brit Army and wants to go see a Footie match, Everton are playing away so he decides to go see Liverpool play, he takes me with him to see my first ever game of “Real Football”. I Loved it, the Crowd the noise, being packed in the ground, the Banter between the men, and of course seeing the players up close..so he goes back to the Army after his leave, and I became a “Red”. Been one ever since.
He has never forgiven himself since.He lives in South Africa and is still a Bluenose.
So to my Big Brother, cheers Jim.”
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 #146 |
Sun King
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 7:28 pm
FS, I hear you. It’s probably just a waste of time, but I’ve got the energy for now, so why not? I mean, it worked for Sly Sports to just say the same things over and over, so maybe we’ll catch a break one day and get through to them.
Somnath, there is very little we can do to prepare for those types of challenges that we know we must face. That’s the most frustrating part — the lack of control.
The way it is with Liverpool at the moment, the problem quite clearly starts with the ownership. And even if these two clowns were willing to put up the right kind of money, I’d still want them out as soon as possible. I’m not interested in buying a title, and I’m definitely not interested in having these two associated with the club for any longer.
As I explained in my first post on KopBlog, I only started following football in the past few years. But for the better part of two decades, I’ve been an avid fan of baseball, American football, basketball, and hockey.
Tom Hicks took the Texas Rangers, a baseball club that was in at least a decently respectable state, and effectively ran them into the ground. I watched him award Alex Rodriguez a most ridiculous contract and otherwise cripple his team with similar boneheaded moves.
Now, insert the “H” on the front of this link, and listen to Tom Hicks thoughts on betrayal from nearly a year ago:
ttp://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090209&content_id=3812156&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb
Hicks saying he feels betrayed by someone? As he continues to spit in the faces of Liverpool supporters everywhere? I’m speechless.
Let’s look at Gillett… The Montreal Canadiens are the Liverpool FC of the National Hockey League. They have won more trophies than anyone, but none since 1993. I haven’t been the best hockey fan the past couple years, so I’m hesitant to point out specifics here. But for all intents and purposes, he watched his team win nothing, made his money, and then just picked up and sold.
These guys are nothing more than businessmen, and they simply want to make money. It’s no different than the CEO of my company who sits around in his suite and watches his bank account grow while the workers in the offices do all the heavy labor and get paid crap wages.
Hicks and Gillett will use Liverpool to profit and then move on. If they see that they cannot profit, they will just cut their losses and leave the club in turmoil.
Get them out immediately. That’s the first step. There are no obvious replacements because it’s not like you can scout owners and try to recruit them for your club. But that’s where it starts. It’s something the supporters can influence, so why not take control over one thing that we can?
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 #147 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 7:33 pm
RedScouse… I think loads of ended up Reds like that. My Da and Uncle Alan (God rest them. Good lads) took me to Goodison in 65 dumped me outside the Blue House while they had a few gargles. Then came out, passed me over the turn style and into The Gwaldys Street we went.
To be honest, like yourself I absolutely loved it and spent most of my time staring at the crowd. I can’t remember anything about the game, who they was playing, the score, anything. It was a night game, and I just remember starting at the crowd, as they swayed and sang.
Do you remember it used to actually look like they was on fire back then… Night games, all the steam rising off the crowd.
Lucky enough, Liverpool was at home the next Saturday and I sneaked off to Anfield with some bigger lads from our street. I remember me Ninna gave me a few coppers to go with, and the big lads took it off me, treated me like shite all day, the way they used to, and threw me under the turnstyle at the Boys Pen… Saw the Kop through the railings and that was it… Kopite for life.
Me Da was never too pleased. But happy days, eh.
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 #148 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 7:43 pm
Sun King as I said, please yourself mate. I can’t be arsed with them. All they are interested in is the next result so they don’t get skitted by their friends. I’d rather they just fucked off and supported the Mancs or Chavs. They belong there and would be welcomed with open arms.
I know it seems petty of me. I’m not even on about the few we have in here. And I certainly don’t mean proper supporters wherever they are from…. I mean the masses that are attaching themselves to our club, who are not really wanted as they honestly have no idea what it is to be a Liverpool supporter. And they believe me… they are damaging the club, not only in the present but everything it once stood for.
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 #149 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 8:04 pm
Sun King… I didn’t comment on what you said about Hicks and Gillette because I wanted to watch the video before saying anything.
Sadly it kept stopping after just under a minute, so I didn’t get to see the whole thing. Mind you I didn’t have to… How can you tell Hicks and Gillette are lying?
Easy. Their lips are moving.
The hypocrisy of the man is incredible but nothing we haven’t came to know.
I’ll try and find the link for you. Texas Rangers Fans have been in touch with Liverpool fans for a long time now, and they are forging links with SOS. And I read a letter from one of their fans, saying they are now trying to get organised, so they can also take some steps towards driving this tumour of a man out of their club.
I can only wish them the best of luck, but just hope it’s not before we get shot of him and his Gargoyle Gillette. I dread to think what will happen if they get enough funds to hang on and on.
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 #150 |
Lurgankop
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 8:17 pm
Here’s the line-up for tonight.
Liverpool: Reina, Carragher, Skrtel, Agger, Insua, Benayoun, Mascherano, Gerrard, Aurelio, Kuyt, Ngog.
Subs: Cavalieri, Aquilani, Torres, Kyrgiakos, Lucas, Darby, Dossena.
Would not have guessed that one.
The man has one serious set of nuts though!
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 #151 |
Sun King
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 8:19 pm
The biggest tragedy going on in football today is the “Americanization” of the sport. As a lifelong United States citizen, maybe I seem like a bastard for saying that. But I’ll endorse the good things about America, thank you very much, and I’ll reject the bad. It’s comforting to see people like the Texas Rangers fans saying, “Don’t let this happen to you!”
Unfortunately, Hicks is edging closer and closer to selling off the Rangers. And I cannot stomach the thought of him being able to torture Liverpool for much longer.
Anyway, fans of American sports are the most fickle creatures on the planet. Since I live a couple thousand miles away, I’m a bit curious as to what the general mood in England is and in the city of Liverpool itself, specifically in regards to Rafa Benitez. It’s very difficult to dig up an accurate representation with all the bollocks out there. I know the atmosphere at Anfield has seemed more subdued at times, and it’s a disgrace to hear booing or see “supporters” walking out early. But without even considering the pretenders around the world who are attaching themselves to the club, how are things domestically?
The lads growing up within the Liverpool haven on Merseyside have but one choice for a team to support. I hope they understand what a privilege that is instead of a burden. Overall, is that average born and bred Scouser the same type of loyal, sensible, and knowledgeable as fan that was forged in the yesteryear?
Just about match time and an interesting lineup, so I’ll leave on that note. Let’s make Shankly proud, eh, boys?
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 #152 |
Aitch
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 8:22 pm
Oh dear…
somnath
“What you have explained might be true”
I’m sorry, where is the gray area here? There is no maybe about it. You don’t have to take my word for it. Spend half-an-hour googling what the info I gave you and you’ll see for yourself its true.
Until then, you’ll continue to spout half-truths and NOT be taken seriously in here by people who simply know more than you.
You want to “just leave it at that” claiming that these statements are irrelevant, but they are NOT.
When someone states a half-truth or a just plain WRONG “fact” it is our solemn duty to NOT swallow it hook line and sinker.
Especially when “the truth” is so easy to find, whether it be from people who simply know more than you do about the situation, or from a small time investement of your own on google.
It is “technically true” to say that G&H have invested in players. since they gave Rafa the moeny to buy Torres, Babel and Aquilani.
The “actual truth” is that they borrowed 60 million to pay for those player purchases. In fact every single player purchased since their arrival has been done so on money borrowed from RBS and generated from player sales.
… so let’s not pretend there is any gray area in such discussions shall we?
You wanna debate whether a certain player is good or bad, okay sure, we can all formulate opinion on that.
But certain things are true and certain things are just NOT.
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 #153 |
Redscouse
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 8:24 pm
Didn’t see that Team sheet coming.
Is Torres injured? I know Johnson is carrying a knock.
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 #154 |
Aitch
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 8:30 pm
FS, I just read that Hicks rangers and wioll net something in the region of 300 million.
Gilltte just walked away with 333 million after declaring bankrupcy, then selling the Canadiens.
And they are negotiating a “124 million quid investment” in LFC.
So they are selling some shares off to generate 124 million, their outstanding debt is 270… of which they’ve paid nothing back but interest in 3 years!
Yet Rafa has been told he has to sell to fund contract negotiations and any incoming players in January??
you couldn’t make this shit up!
Its going to be very interesting to see what happens in the next few months.
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 #155 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 8:30 pm
I think he’s just not risking the pair of them mate. Both aren’t fully fit and I think he’s worried about them aggravating existing injuries or getting new ones.
Sun King, I’ll have a chat with you sometime soon about what’s happening with the supporters, but like yourself… it’s game on now.
Come on you Red Men!
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 #156 |
Redscouse
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 8:43 pm
ok. off to the BAT CAVE to watch the Game ..
Come on you MIGHTY Reds……
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 #157 |
Lurgankop
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 10:58 pm
Didn’t get to see it but it’s a much needed victory.
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 #158 |
Anfield_Red
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 11:17 pm
N’gog was brilliant in this game. This lad’s got potential. God if the gooners had not all the luck this weekend, we would have been ahead of them in the table.
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 #159 |
Decstarr
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 11:24 pm
That’s my boys!! Sly sports and all you negatrons stick that up your pipe and smoke that!!! Red till I die!!
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 #160 |
Redscouse
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 11:37 pm
What can you say about ” Torres” ?
I love what he does for the Team.
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 #161 |
Aitch
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 11:40 pm
Snatching Victory from the jaws of Anxiety and Frustration.
Moments!
Any one of half a dozen bobbledy-bobbledy’s in the first half and we run out a comfortable cricket score.
But they don’t go in and the thought “what do we have to do” creeps in!
Still positive in the second and almost a dozen goalmouth scrambles get cleared away. (I’m 6000 miles away watching on Tele and I could feel the tension in the ground.)
At one point Kuyt had to start clapping in front of the Kop to get them geed up when we’d just won a corner. (too much, arms crossed and entertain me, and not enough Spirit of the Kop, if you ask me!)
Then another moment… they hit the bar when it was easier to equalize.
But we go right up the other end and get a bit of a bobbledy goal ourselves and in that moment… job done!
…er… except it isn’t … coz 3 players could make an easy tackle, none of them do and its 2-1 and a nervy final few, nail-biting minutes.
So we could have really done with a good 6 goal thrashing, but what was needed above all esle was this confidence inspiring 2-1 win and the knowledge that with a bit more luck it could have been more!
Pretty much everyone had a good game. Another Monster performance by the Masch.
Agger is looking the absolute BIZ right now.
Insua, where does a kid like that get the confidence to just play the ball out of defense under pressure (Rafa’s poor man-management and guidence perhaps?)
Benny looking back to his best, though still a bit shagged and off the pace.
Ngog, growing by leaps and bounds (keep your fuckin Van NistleDick hazbins, we’ve got one for the future here! Get him game time.)
Fuck it, everyone looked good today.
We’ve still got some confidence to build and some daft passing to cut out, it wasn’t all rosey by any means, some stupid shit still going on, but this result was well deserved and will help.
For the most part, we looked pretty good today.
Now Portsmouth and a (soon to be mandated by the FA full strength?) Wolves!
Here we go?
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 #162 |
Lurgankop
Posted on December 16, 2009 @ 11:43 pm
Totally agree Redscouse but from what I did see of the match tonight, I agree with Anfied_Red, Ngog deserves a special mention.
There were some touches that a certain Torres would have been proud off.
Anyway 3 points in the bag and that’s what really matters.
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 #163 |
Redscouse
Posted on December 17, 2009 @ 12:05 am
Lurgan your right about Ngog the boy is growing in confidence , he can play a bit of football to, not just a big lad up front.
Masher stood out for me.
I just love to watch Torres play, even though he wasn’t on the field very long tonight you just know that there is the potential for a goal or two when he is on the field.
Ngog will get better and better. I think Rafa was smart tonight in starting with him if Torres is still not at full strength.
Benny Onion played well too, he just has a way of turning his man, something you can’t teach a player , he just has it.We will only get better from here.
Did anyone else notice Sevie G didn’t seem like he wanted to tackle after he got fouled in the first half?
Hopefully it’s nothing serious, we need him on the field the rest of the season.
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 #164 |
Aitch
Posted on December 17, 2009 @ 12:16 am
I noticed it Red.
I thought the minute the 2nd went in, Rafa would haul SG off.
Ngog is gonna shove some people’s opinions right down their throats pretty soon!
(he’s actually already doing it.)
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 #165 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 17, 2009 @ 12:54 am
Well, a wins a win and a very welcome one it was. But we’re not out of the woods yet lads. Pompey on Saturday, and they could have took all 3 points at the Shed tonight.
And look at the results in the last few days… Proof – any team in this league can beat any orther on it’s day – well, they can if they don’t rest every player in their side except their goalie.
Ah Wolves, well no doubt they’ll all be fully rested by the time they face us, eh. But another scrappy win there, in what will no doubt be an absolute dogfight, and I’m hoping that should be enough to see us kick on at Villa.
I know it’s one game at a time, but looking forward, I think expecting any dramatics before Villa is a bit early but I do expect us to do them and walk on from there.
Oh and last word – NGog a million quid… just another boob by the shite scouting system I suppose.
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 #166 |
kristur
Posted on December 17, 2009 @ 1:10 am
Good to have these 3 in the bag and the win will increase overall confidence as well – although Ngog doesn’t seem to particularly low, he’s coming on strides and is definitely an asset.
Such a relief when Torres got the second one, I had a feeling we’d need the cushion…
As regards Horseface, what are the arguments against him coming in on a pay as you play arrangement?
Besides him being a former manc that is 
Surplus to requirements?
Over the hill?
Nothing but increased workload on the physios?
I don’t really watch other football then the english one, well and brazilian since I relocated. But if the horse still has the touch and gallop I would have thought we could use him.
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 #167 |
timmytorres
Posted on December 17, 2009 @ 1:20 am
Good win for the reds tonight.I stayed away from the results and watched match of the day.First time i watched Match of the day “live” at 12 o clock at night!
N`gog continues to progress well done to the lad,looks like he has a future.He certainly has the right attitude.Delighted to see Torres score after missing the chance on sunday.Can`t keep a goodun down.Nice one Nando.
Can`t really tell from highlights but it looks like we played well throughout although dissappointing to conciede late on.Nevertheless its three points welcomed.
Nice one Rafa.
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 #168 |
timmytorres
Posted on December 17, 2009 @ 1:27 am
Why do i do it…
Channel hopping i just turned on Sly sports news and they were just going to add break…
“After the break we`ll take a look at more of tonights games,Arsenal drew 1-1 tonight at Burnley who`s home record is better than Liverpools”
Couldn`t resist a cheap shot could they?
No witchunt na???
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 #169 |
timmytorres
Posted on December 17, 2009 @ 1:33 am
Sorry for hogging…
Nice one from Wenger when asked about Wolves last night.
“Yes it was dissappointing,we now have to compete with them (mancs) for the 37 games of the season”
A lot less than that Arsen i`m afraid
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 #170 |
Aitch
Posted on December 17, 2009 @ 3:26 am
It was a decent game timmy.
you could really see glimmers of what this group of players is capable of.
But weight of expectation always means, if we can’t get ourselves out to a lead, we become apprehensive.
We got the early goal and things settled, then there were wa series of little goalmouth scrambles on 20-23 minutes and when the ball didn’t come in you could almost see the players thinking “oh shit,here we go, they’ll fuckin fluke one at the other end” and you could feel it from the crowd.
But we kept our heads and had a few opportunities at the end of the half as well.
Pretty comfortable going in at the break. In the drivers seat with plenty of positive attacking play and relatively comfortable defensive performance.
(but just that nagging thought that, coz we didn’t bag the 2nd, the ref could give a pen or a dodgy decision… and well anything could happen?)
And sure enough, there were a series of decidedly odd free-kick decisions given their way at the beginning of the second half… and while I’d say overall he Reffed a pretty good game, he did curiously wave play on more than a few times when some of our lads got clattered, but we retained posession.
(seriously, there were at least a half-dozen times when everyone stopped, them and us, and he was waving his arms like “get on with it.” It was almost comical.)
And you could hear the air being sucked out of the stadium when they hit the bar. Our play at that point had been getting increasingly nervy, but we rode our luck and if Nando scores a fuckin sloppier goal than that ever in his career, I’ll eat my hat!
He looked like he was auditioning for the London performance of Spamalot… or was it a reenactment of the Dance of the Sugar Plum Fairies for the kiddies for Xmas…. for fucks sake. 
(They need to call a group of the youth lads up, to clean the rust of his and a few others boots, if you ask me.) (I know, I know, I’m being harsh, he’s just back from injury )
You’d have thought we’d bag a third at that point, and almost did when Aquilani tried a bit of the spectacular with an overhead bicycle… but got pushed in the back just as he was lining his body up (pen maybe… but would have been harsh) and didn’t quite get enough on it.
But again, a couple of dodgy decisions the other way put us under a bit of late pressure and the nerves were still there and the goal we did concede was a direct result of that.
Three players reluctant to put in a challenge on the edge of the box coz they didn’t want to be the one to concede a pen or free kick and instead they gave the fucker a free shot from 12 yards.
But that’s all just by way of reiterating what FS, myself and a few others have been saying for a while now.
The road out of the mire is a long one, with many a twist and turn before the next mile marker.
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 #171 |
Aitch
Posted on December 17, 2009 @ 7:47 am
Excuse me… but can someone explain why Man Utd, aren’t overseas playing in the World Club Cup???
I thought FIFA ruled that participation was mandatory after they dodged it a few years ago?
… or am I just neglecting to take into consideration the obligatory “except where Man Utd are concerned” clause they seem to be able to strongarm the Prem, FA, UEFA and FIFA into.
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 #172 |
knight
Posted on December 17, 2009 @ 8:04 am
Been really busy and not reading all the posts. I woke up last night at 3.40am to watch the Wigan game. My eyes were so tired, and i could not take itany longer I went off to sleep after Torres came on. So did not se the last two goals. But glad for the win anyway.
FS, Rudd v N is not a bad striker, if you take away the fact he had been a Manc before. he is only for 6 months loan, so eases up on th finance area by giving so quality upfront.
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 #173 |
Skeat
Posted on December 17, 2009 @ 8:43 am
Any chance we can get rafael van der Vaart on loan? Seriously, i prefer to take him instead of the horse… but i heard that he has serious attitude problem..
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 #174 |
axchoice
Posted on December 17, 2009 @ 9:34 am
Aitch,
Referring to #171, I think the simple answer is they have lost the CL to Barcelona last year, and hence Barca is in World Club Cup, and not them
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 #175 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 17, 2009 @ 10:34 am
Sorry Knight, but not for me. And it’s got nothing to do with him once wearing Satan on his chest.
He’s crocked most of the time nowadays. When he is fit and on the pitch, he barely moves at all.
Our main system with one up top, needs a very mobile striker. And even in his hay day, he was an in the box player. So, I think it would be a worse move than signing Morientes, and remember… even on loan, the wages would be huge, and that would come out of any transfer budget.
Also, it’s at the back we have the problems. Look at what happened when Aquilani came on. It wasn’t the lad’s fault, and I’m sure he’s going to be a great player. But we need to get back to the basics, even play shit on a stick football, until we get some wins racked up.
Once we’ve got the confidence back, the high tempo passing game will come back, then it’s time to go on the rampage. But right now, we have to claw our way out of this slump.
Look at the results this season… any team is capable of beating any other right now. After Christmas though, the amount of games, the weather, and the heavy pitches will take it’s toll on the smaller squads and the bigger teams will start to steamroller them. We must stay in touch till then. And if we can stay there until Easter, who knows what can happen.
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 #176 |
KeithSA
Posted on December 17, 2009 @ 10:36 am
Welcomed result last night and some very good performances. I think Masch is back to his best and Ngog is really looking the part. Where are CBC with their he is not good enough to play for Liverpool quips? Oh I forgot we won they don’t comment unless we loose.
Some great team work and nice interplay with lots of one touch passes. Gerrard is still some way of full fitness and he indeed pulls out of tackles which is a sign he not that confident just yet. I thought Aurelleo had a good game as well as yes Agger is starting to look the part. All we need is a small run to get the confidence back up and fully fit players. This team is good enough to take on all comers. It is only a matter of time before we get back to and exceed the level we ended last year on. There are going to be a few teams that are going to get a hiding from us once we swing into full gear. Keep the Faith
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 #177 |
KeithSA
Posted on December 17, 2009 @ 10:43 am
I have to agree with you FS I would rather see Pacheco on the bench and Ngog given the chance to gain more experience. Bring back Nemeth that’s our future not van Nosteral, if Rafa thought that way he would have brought Owen back. We have to look forward and not be panicked into bringing in players as a stop gap. Given a fit team behind him Ngog (his strike rate is not too shabby right now) can play the part. Think of how he will benefit with a fully fit Gerrad, Aqualani, Johnson, Reira, Babel all streaming forward and creating space. We have to hold our nerve it will come right.
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 #178 |
bigbry
Posted on December 17, 2009 @ 10:48 am
I cant agree with van Nistelrooy being a good signing.
Using Rafas 4-2-3-1 system, the striker needs to be mobile and do the bulk of his work outside of the box. Hence Torres and Ngog very mobile and very fit. Van Nistelrooy isnt suited to that role, doesnt have a trick or burst of pace to beat a man so I cant see how he would fit in using this system.
There is of course a possibility that he could come in by using a 4-4-2 system. This requires the use of wingers who have the ability to beat their man and ping in good crosses.
For me that would necessitate pushing Gerrard out wide right, Riera out on the Left and Aquilani as the offensive midfielder. Possible as a plan b, but I think it removes fluidity out of the system as currently we have 1 striker around the area and 4 very mobile and creative attackers running in who are hard to mark.
Having said all that I am a fire fighter not a football manager so I could be talking complete balls.
Just my opinion anyway.
Personally, I would like to see us go for Carlton Cole. (funds permitting of course)
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 #179 |
bigbry
Posted on December 17, 2009 @ 10:52 am
Sorry FS, I have basically said the same as you. You obviously type faster than me
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 #180 |
gazmaninaus
Posted on December 17, 2009 @ 11:35 am
When you’ve had some bad luck, even a run of bad luck then you get nervy. The last couple of minutes were an on the edge experience. The crowd was just like the players, as Bob the builder said, “Can we do it, yes we can.”
.
The team played well enough to win 2 games but the nerves of not wanting to lose kicked in. That happens when your coming out of a rut.
.
Good luck to Rafa and all the lads, nows the time to take a break and build our confidence.
.
As for Ngog, find me any 20 year old with 5 PL goals worth 1 million. How many has Berbatov got, what about Keane, what for that matter has Owen and Crouch.
.
As for Van Nasal Hair, if he come’s he come’s if he doesn’t I won’t miss him. Although a part of me would love to see him kiss the badge at the OT, after scoring the winning goal.
.
Ps though he’s a box fox not a 1 out striker.
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 #181 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 17, 2009 @ 12:35 pm
Fire fighter, eh Bry. Fair play to you. Good lads fire bobbies and do a great job. And I think you’re spot on with that opinion.
In fact, if anything, I think we should get shot of some players in January. It’s a bit risky with the squad we’ve got, but I would shift Vronin and Dosenna.
Vronin, because I think that’s it for him, even though he’s not as crap as the scapegoaters would make out. And playing him would only hold back some of the young lads. So, like Keith, I’d much rather see Pacheco on the bench and in the cup games and recall Nemeth if that’s possible. But I don’t think it is, due to the Kyriagos deal.
Dosenna, well, I happen to quite like the lad. But I think it’s fair to say, wrong player, wrong time, wrong club. So, I think it would also be fair to let the lad go home to Italy, especially with this being a world cup year.
Although, I still think it’s a shame it didn’t work out for the lad. He’s got a brilliant attitude. He’s not the shit on a stick the idiot scapegoaters like to make out, and, with the right man in front of him, I think he would have done a great job on our left flank.
But letting them go wouldn’t affect the squad too much and it would also get two relatively high earners off the wage bill, and add a few quid to the transfer fund.
Buying in January is always a bit of a gamble anyway. Most good players are settled and cup tied, not that that would affect us now. But there aren’t very many January buys that work out, and the ones that do only usually make an affect in the next season when they have settled and got used to the new surroundings.
Having said all that though, I think Stevie G and Nando will probably have to be used quite sparingly throughout the season other wise we could well lose them both for a long period of time. But watch what happens anyway… We will handle them with kid gloves all season, get them fully fit and firing, then Spain and England will fuck the pair of them up in the world cup.
Manager… except for the dough, who’d want to be one anyway, eh Bry mate.
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 #182 |
Lurgankop
Posted on December 17, 2009 @ 12:54 pm
Have now just caught the last 30 minutes of the match. Fuck me, you would get a better atmosphere on the moon!
Now and again I could hear a small section of the ground trying to get behind the team but the rest of the ‘supporters’ just sat there with the arms folded. I also seen, what someone commented on earlier, Kuyt trying to get the Kop going. Unbelieveable.
Anyway less of this negativity. A deserved 3 points that now sees us move just 3 points behind the brilliant appy harry’s spurs and 5 points behind O’Neill’s magnificient villa, not to mention the arse, who have now lost Fabregas. Interesting times ahead me thinks. Just need to keep the head down and work fucking hard.
What a plunker that Ngog is eh? Wonder how much he would be worth now? That Rafa fella hasn’t got a clue! As for the scouting system? Pah!
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 #184 |
steve the red
Posted on December 17, 2009 @ 1:42 pm
Great to get the 3 points last night, a nervous finish was to be expected I suppose.
A 12:45 K.O at Portsmourth on Saturday, and another tough battle ahead. Portsmouth were unlucky to lose at Chelsea last night.
As for the Van Nistlerooy rumours, my advice would be……………… don’t look a gift horse in the mouth!
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 #185 |
timmytorres
Posted on December 17, 2009 @ 1:45 pm
FS, your right,very few January signings make an impact but we must never forget good oul Ronnie Rosenthal!
Yes,Ngog`s progression is going well.Probably better than Rafa had origionally planned.Those with half a brain could always see the lad had something.Good movement and a decent finisher but because he didn`t do a Robbie Fowler and score five goals on his debut some idiots think he shuld thrown out with the trash.
It`s the world we live in today.
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 #186 |
timmytorres
Posted on December 17, 2009 @ 1:49 pm
LB,thats mad,i`d nearly do rafa he`s looking sexy in that
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 #187 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on December 17, 2009 @ 1:51 pm
I was watching Goals on Sunday on slysports last Sunday. They had John Hartson (who is recovering from cancer and doing really well) and Carlton Cole o nthe sofa. I got the impression Carlton Cole is a Liverpool fan. Just things I picked up in between the lines. He was being cajoled into summing up Liverpool’s season and seemed reluctant to be critical. Also he said Rafa is one of the greatest managers there is….. Hmmm….
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 #188 |
timmytorres
Posted on December 17, 2009 @ 1:59 pm
LB,I wouldn`t say no to CC.Thing is with him being a Ingerland international so his price would be inflated.West ham would never do a loan deal,they`re in as much financial trouble as us.So as regards January i`ll say there will be little or no activity with players coming in.
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 #189 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 17, 2009 @ 2:05 pm
The Kop in my hey day, and it’s not a big game, just an ordinary Saturday…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFVapZsbYf0
Now do you see why I moan Lurgan. And I tell you something, it’s only going to get worse…
Aussie Kopite who used to come in here, keeps in touch with me and he’s coming to England for Christmas. I just got him a ticket for the Villa game. The plan was to meet him there, have a few bevvies and watch the match.
He doesn’t know it, but I could only get 1 ticket so I gave him mine. It’s no big deal. I’ll be at home with family and friends anyway. And the lad’s only here for a short while so… anyway, the point is – I could only get the one ticket.
It’s getting harder and harder to get them as H&G reallocate them to the corporate/hospitality gang and the package operators… travel, accomodation, match.
On top of that, they are also reallocating tickets that is seeing the break up of the Reclaim The Kop blocks. This was a deal worked out between local supporters and the club, to get the locals that go week in week out into a couple of blocks so they could generate some atmoshphere.
The blocks are right up the back of the Kop – boob. It doesn’t transmit, wedged right at the back, under the roof. But on top of that these blocks are where the anti H&G protests come from, so they are systematically being split up and scattered round the ground.
On top of that, the older local season ticket holders on the Kop aren’t being replaced with younger lads who generate the atmosphere. They used to be moved on into the stands, and the places would be taken by younger lads… this is no longer happening.
So the line of progression has been purposely destroyed for the sake of money and to stop protests… all flags are inspected on the way in now. Anti G&H ones are confiscated, and not given back after the game… this is actually illegal.
On top of all that, there is the Sly generation and all the other problems we’ve often spoke about. Imagine how bad it will be when we actually win the league… and the tourists really come to town.
There is nothing wrong with that. The club needs these people to compete. And as I’ve said many times before, we’ve always had out of town out of country support. It used to actually be something we supported as fans. I know some great lads from all over, who have been going for many years at a great expense. Great lads.
Out of town or out of country support isn’t the problem… tourisim is. It’s like StoneHenge, Venice, The Sisten (Don’t know how to spell it) Chapel and all them great tourist spots… the people who come to see these things are actually destroying them, but no one will stop them because it makes too much money.
And that’s the key. Even if tickets where easier to come by, young local support is being priced out of the game. And mark my words… when we win the league, the prices will rocket, and the place will be absolutely rammed to the gills with Chuckle Brothers.
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 #190 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 17, 2009 @ 2:39 pm
Missed them comments… fucking funny the things the kids do on these computers now. I’ve seen some belters. But on a serious note… I think we better drop any expectations on new signings. We just got a kid from Iceland who they were all after and I think that could well be it.
If not, it will probably be another loan or cheap squad type player… can’t see the point in spending the little dough we might have in the summer now.
Been listening to TAlk Shite this morning… On and on about Rafa and our crap squad as usual – shite without Torres. Then the same fella who’d been prattling on about Aquilani the waste and the wasting of Robbie Keane, says… that NGog, looks like he could become a player. Rafa got lucky there.
Not one single mention that the lad only cost a million quid.
And as if that wasn’t enough, after ranting on and on about LFC needing to get rid of Rafa to stand any chance, they started on about Mark Hughes. You should have heard it… Shame to see a good young British manager being brought down by those foriegn Johnny’s like Robinho and Adebayor. He has to be given more time and money to bring in the right players. Blah, blah, fucking blah!
The hypocrisy is unbelievable.
But it’s starting to roll off my back just like Rafa’s. I’m saturated to the point where I don’t even get angry. In fact, last night I found meself laughing at the drivel spouted by Charlie Nicholas on Sly and Gary Lineacre on MOTD.
Gary Gillespie on LFCtv said a cracker though…
When they showed all the legends at the Shankly parade, the fella commenting got all gooey sentimental. He asked Gillespie what he thought, he said… Oh, I thought it was a casting call for the remake of Cocoon.
Funny as.
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 #191 |
steve the red
Posted on December 17, 2009 @ 3:02 pm
CC was probably just trying to keep Rafa sweet LB – Just in case there my be the remotest possibility that we might be interested in signing him.
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 #192 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on December 17, 2009 @ 3:09 pm
Steve, you might be right there…
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 #193 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on December 17, 2009 @ 3:10 pm
By the way Hines had to have an operation to take cartilidge out of his knee. Gutted.
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 #194 |
An Linn
Posted on December 17, 2009 @ 3:19 pm
Good win last night – looks like I have to eat humble pie over Ngog – happy to do it,
Two games coming up we should win and we we can beat villa away things will look a lot brighter starting off the new year
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 #195 |
Diggerno.10
Posted on December 17, 2009 @ 4:23 pm
An important win last night lads, 3 crucial pts. I wouldent call it a good win because as ever man did we make it hard on ourselves. Thank Fowler Jason Scotland did his best Ronny Rosenthal impression! But the key thing is we did win so I’ll leave any criticisms I have aside and just hope we win Saturday. Speaking of which, I’ll be watching the game in the presence of greatness: Jan Molby will be joining us in the 11th st bar for the Pompey game Saturday! Cant wait to meet our very own great Dane!
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 #196 |
Dizzy
Posted on December 17, 2009 @ 5:24 pm
Am so sick of this shameful sly coverage … Today i was watching that FIRST CHOICE highlights show and the host (some lady) started showing clippings of liverpool’s match with wigan’s ONLY threatning move that hit the bar and she was like, “Ooh how different wud that have been if that wud have gone in.. how unlucky wigan are..” and she started making a point out of it as if we are so useless that we cant even score if Wigan shud have equalised… Why did she fail to show/mention of the countless near-misses by liverpool ?? wat if any 2 of those shots wud have gone in … then wat ..
Why are they so hell bent on highlighting only the negatives of our matches … why dun they highlight the fact that wat if that beachball goal wud have been disallowed ?? wat if we had got that clear-cut penalty decisions against the spurs and arsenal ?? i just dun get this absolutely stupid baseless coverage we are getting in the media..
Even yetsreday, although i was watchin the match on my PC, i had switched to skysports to listen to the shit they are very well capable of … and that guy covering liverpool’s game was sooo full of it … according to him we were sooooo nervy … Excuse me, but i was watching the same game and wat he failed to point out was a string of saves that wigan’s keeper had to make …
The shameful act of continuously slating us and our manager is getting pathetic and more pathetic.. i wonder wats in store once teh season nears its finale …
Did anyone hear any pundit slate Mark Hughes for his recent results ?? spending 100 odd million and failing to win a single away game recently … wat position is he now on ??? 8th ??
And also i wanted to mention did anyone hear ANYTHING about Shrek’s dive teh otehr day against Villa ?? I havent … atleast not to the extent to which i heard and read abt NGOG’s … Atleast, NGOG went down avoiding a careless lunge by a defender …
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 #197 |
Sun King
Posted on December 17, 2009 @ 5:49 pm
We got the job done yesterday. Still miles and miles of room for improvement, but there were no real glaring weakness that I myself find worthy of losing sleep over. I’d like to see us demonstrate a bit more faith that we can keep the lead once we go up, and I’d like to be able to find the killing blow that truly finishes the opposition off, but we’re mainly just talking about confidence here. Stay strong and grab a few more positive results, and it’ll come.
End of the day, it’s just three points — important points at that — but we ain’t done nothing yet. Otherwise, a useful performance for a little boost of confidence and a solid first building block for the next fixtures. Keep it going, and let’s head into the new year with some momentum and a clearer sense of purpose.
I struggle to see how we could bring in any player of significance during the January window, and like some of you, I’d almost rather avoid it. If we can get a steal, then by all means… But again, it’s just a roll of the dice. Rafa will see a player with some potential, try to use him in the appropriate manner and situations, and hope he can quickly learn how to fit himself in with the team and its play. As far as I’m concerned, whatever funds we have aren’t going to bring in the caliber of player we need, so I’m not getting excited for anything. We can’t truly hope for a new lad to make any impact of note, so it’s really just inviting the ass clowns to blaspheme “another failed signing by Rafa!!”
N’Gog continues to progress, and we might as well give him more of an opportunity to show what’s he capable of. And I agree with offering Pacheco more minutes on the pitch to accelerate his learning curve. At least we know these are players who can be useful in the years ahead.
Voronin sometimes isn’t as terrible as people make him out to be, but I don’t see much of a benefit in playing him. He doesn’t want to be here, so we don’t care if he improves for the future. And for practical purposes, it just seems like he’s missing that one last bit of quality to make anything happen. I watch him and see a few good moves here and there, but it always amounts to nothing. Most of the time he just seems on a different wavelength. Maybe he needs to pull a page from the Lucas book and get his hair cut. Perhaps his play will improve. I swear Lucas started improving once he shaved off that rat fur.
While I’m on such a serious subject, I’ll also mention that this is coming from a man who used to convince himself that Alonso’s few errant passes were due to his patchy beard. You see, the added weight threw him slightly off balance, so he’d overhit a few.
FS, the pricing out of the real fans is exactly what I’m talking about when I mention the Americanization of football. If Hicks and Gillett were ever to build a new stadium, I’m sure 75% of the added seating would simply be luxury suites. Of course, the regular ticket prices would go through the roof as well. This is happening to every new place built in the United States. The stadiums are being replaced by structures that are simply shopping malls with fields of grass in the middle to play games on. The focus is now on how to get people to spend as much money as possible while they’re at a game — not how do we get the people here to support the team as loudly and enthusiastically as possible? This will happen in all of football, and the death of the atmosphere will be the heartbreak of a lifetime.
And I’d prefer not to think of money as it relates to when Liverpool wins the league. Aside from what they’ll be charging for admission to Anfield, you’re right, the money from tourists and bandwagoners will simply be pouring in. Merchandise sales will be unbelievable.
But that begs the question — what is it that these two dimwits don’t see? If they simply invest in the team and give Rafa the resources needed to win the league, they stand to make an absolutely silly profit. That’s where I have trouble connecting the dots. It’s a simple equation for me — investment of money = #19 = return of investment and then some.
All it really tells me is that they are in even worse a state than we could possibly imagine. They cannot invest because they are just too broke.
But again, even they had it, I wouldn’t want their money. They are scumbags for life. All I want for Christmas? My two poor excuses for owners strapped to the top of a rocket and launched into outer space.
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 #198 |
Sun King
Posted on December 17, 2009 @ 6:07 pm
LondonBarnes, all things considered, that video is hysterical.
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 #199 |
somnath07in
Posted on December 17, 2009 @ 6:23 pm
Great result for us. Didnt get to see the match but read the comments here.
@Aitch
Ok i will take that.
@Sun King
Going by your posts it is really important that somehow we get rid of the present owners.
General question to all:
I just wanted to know that when ManUtd were building their stadium..did we try to shift to a similar sort of ground? Why we were not able to recognize that with changing times we will need to have higher revenue generating sources?
Rick Parry is sure to blame but there must be something more htan that isnt it? I want to know.
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 #200 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 17, 2009 @ 6:27 pm
Sun King, there’s no point in me going on about it. Hicks has said it all himself… Brand loyalty, Weetabix, etc.
Anyone still fooling themselves that they are anything more than parasites is a fool at worst, at best doesn’t know what’s going on… but even that is no excuse. In fact, that’s worse than having your opinions formed by the media.
Welcome to the club Dizzy… All I can say is, don’t let it drive you mad. Mind you, I’ve seen it for knocking on 50 years now and it still drives me bonkers at times.
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 #202 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 17, 2009 @ 7:42 pm
And while I’m at it, I might aswell point this out…
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/international/article6959413.ece
Now to help people abroad digest this… Liverpool was the last city to be included in the line up of city’s that will host the World Cup games in 2018, if it comes here.
The committee biding for the games where very reluctant to include Liverpool in the bid as they aren’t convinced there will be a viable stadium in the city come 2018!
To show you how bad this situation is…
Milton Keynes was included in the World Cup host city’s without a second thought. Which won’t mean anything to lot of people in here, but here’s the sad facts about that…
Liverpool as a city, with Everton and Liverpool, have racked up more trophies in football than other city in Britain. Yes… more than London, Manchester or Birmingham. Everton have been a professional league club since 1878, although they date back far further than that. (Both clubs having actually grown out of Saint Domingo Vale parish boys club, and boxing and football teams.) Liverpool have been in business since 1892.
Milton Keynes only actually became a town in 1967, and they have had a football team since 2004. Yes, 5 bloody years… Milton Keynes Dons, which is actually the old Wimbledon FC that split in 2 with half of it ending up as an amatuer side and the other moved to Milton Keynes and changed it’s name.
And I could go on, it actually gets worse, but that’s enough doom and gloom for me for now. And anyone wanting to know how dire the situation is, can easily look it up.
But as always, the ones who need to learn and realise what is actually happening at the club, and how bad that situation is, are only interested in having their demands met at any cost.
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 #203 |
Aitch
Posted on December 17, 2009 @ 7:49 pm
There were a number of contributing factors somnath. (re #199)
I’m sure there are points that others can elaborate on, but in a nutshell here’s what happened…
Liverpool weere the dominant side in the 80s when Television boradcast money began trickling into the game (I say trickling because this was really the beginning of the growth of TV comverage…the baby steps)
In the 80s, in simplistic terms, the sides of the stadiums had seats and the ends were were you stood. After Hillsborough, it was mandated that all stadia be 100% seated.
Installing seats in the Kop and Anfield Road ends, cut the capacity (and with it gate receipts) of Anfield nearly in half.)
So this went into effect essentially at the end of 92/93 season, when LFC were still at the height of their power, both on and off the field.
Now granted, all grounds/teams were affected similarly in this way, but around this same time, we the restructuring of football, with the start of the Premier League… and the Champions League… and the injection of big money into the game.
We should have been able to capitalize on this, in the same way some other teams did, but we didn’t.
I suppose to some extent you could say the very thing that makes LFC special, was in some ways its downfall… The Liverpool Way.
We were family owned and didn’t view “big money signings” (not that we didn’t break the bank a few times,) as the way forward.
Throughout the 90s we fell further and further behind in finances… and when we did splash the cash, it was often with disasterous results… causing a certain gun-shyness in subsequent transfer dealings.
We did expand Anfield capacity, but Anfield is smack-dab in the middle of a housing development and could only be expanded so far, without forcibly relocating a LOT of people… folks who were several generations living in those homes.
The long and short of it is, that these factors (and a few others) essentially leveled the playing field for a team like United… and the other teams who briefly benefited from the situation… to not only catch us up, but eventually surpass us… and steamroll ahead… and led to the demise of once great “top 4 clubs” (Notts Forrest and Leeds were once “top 4″ clubs, they aren’t even in the Prem now)
Which brings us to Y2K.
You think the Chavs would be in their current situation if they hadn’t been given hundreds of millions of Dollars.
Our owners borrowed 270 million… Roman GAVE the Chavs 3 times that… no interest payments due… no debt on the club… just Merry Fuckin Christmas and lets go get some silverware!
Obviously things are a bit more complicated than I’ve just typed. I’ve glossed over the finer details, but that’s pretty much how we find ourselves here… in a rather long winded nutshell
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 #204 |
Aitch
Posted on December 17, 2009 @ 8:02 pm
Its fuckin staggering innit FS?
I mean seriously… what businessman with his head screwed on straight would buy a 10% stake in LFC for 64 mill, when for less than double that investment, he could have 100% of Everton and have total control over a how to rebuild them to the rformer glory?
Moores as hapless as he might have been owned a club that was NOT in debt.
The Yanks immediately put us 127 million in debt, then followed that up by doubling down to raise our debt to 290 million.
They then arbitrarily valued the club at 300, then 350, then 400, then 450, and now 500 million.
There’s a name for that … its called a Ponzi Scheme!
(or pyramid scheme as most people know it)
Its a business practice that caused the collapse of financial institutions, worldwide.
It caused the ruination of many a homeowner, worldwide.
it is now largely accepted/viewed as the worst way to run a business.
But some people want to believe we are just fine and the Yanks have invested in players???
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 #205 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on December 17, 2009 @ 8:35 pm
Aitch, the club was indeed in debt before the yanks bought out Moores. In some sources I have read that we were in £40m worth of debt and other sources say it was closer to £80m. The club had been mismanaged for a long long time. Why do you think there were heated arguments between Moores and Steve Morgan at every AGM…
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 #206 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on December 17, 2009 @ 8:39 pm
I just read that article. Hicks and Gillett eh? You couldn’t make it up could you? Well you could actually.
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 #207 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 17, 2009 @ 8:45 pm
There was zero debt on the club though LB. It was on Moores. He actually payed for Dirk Kuyt out of his own pocket….
Without doubt, he is a fool. But he’s a proper red, and if we still had him in charge, we would be rattling along in the same old way… 20 million a year in transfers as the minimum.
What have we got know… debts that we really don’t know the full extent of, but conservatively estimated at 200 and at least 40 millions. A non existent transfer fund, that wages and contracts have to be taken out of. And a pie in the sky plan for a stadium that has already cost us at least 230 millions…
Moores, yep a dupe of the highest order – like many a rich kid, handed everything on a silver plate. But also a heartbroken man, who did his best to the best of his ability… loads of people to blame for our state, and Moores is certainly one of them. But make no bones about it… he’s heartbroken at what he has done. And I know that for absolute fact.
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 #208 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 17, 2009 @ 8:48 pm
Oh and Rafa has earned us record profits every season he has been here, breaking that record each season.
And there is at least 50 million quid disappeared from them funds, but not a trace of where it has gone.
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 #209 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 17, 2009 @ 8:53 pm
Oops typo… it should read a plan for a non existent stadium that has already cost us 20 to 30 millions – 2 bloody drawings, a shed, a porta- loo, some fencing and an auld fella with a spade in Stanley Park.
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 #210 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 17, 2009 @ 8:54 pm
But eh fuck the doom and gloom… let’s go buy Villa, Silva, and Billy The Fish
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 #211 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on December 17, 2009 @ 9:21 pm
So what happened to Snoogey Doogey?
One question to ask yourself though FS, why did Moores have to pay for Kuyt out of his own money? Why was the club in such a skint state that he had to do that? Commercially we were a bit of a joke really. The club the size of Liverpool with all its fan base and success had to have its chair dip into his own pocket to buy us a striker.
This poor management of the club is what I believe panicked Moores into selling out. He saw we were being left miles behind our competitors, he did not have confidence in his own ability to take us forward, and so he sold out to a couple of parasites.
Had Moores hired an excellent, money stream generating chief executive as the mancs did with Peter Kenyon. There would have been no need to be prostituted around the globe to any cunt looking to buy a club. And what a right pair of cunts we got in the end eh?
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 #212 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 17, 2009 @ 9:40 pm
LB, you answered your own question mate…
Had Moores hired an excellent, money stream generating chief executive as the mancs did with Peter Kenyon. There would have been no need to be prostituted around the globe to any cunt looking to buy a club.
Two words… Rick Parry.
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 #213 |
Sun King
Posted on December 17, 2009 @ 9:43 pm
Dire straits indeed, and I’m glad we’re talking about it again. While I’m sure it’s been discussed many times over, it’s important to keep extending reminders from time to time. This blog gets plenty of visitors from all around, and I’m sure there are lurkers who peek in now and again who need and appreciate this information.
And I’m glad to take some of the heat off the manager for the time being and focus back on the real problem. Good job to those who have painted the introductory picture. Anyone taking a serious look at the situation is certain to understand that the ownership is where their attention and efforts need to be aimed — not Rafa Benitez. As long as we have shite owners, we’re going to severely cripple our chances of success. And any success that we do happen to achieve will be temporary.
I agree that The Liverpool Way, for all its pride and glory and honor, played a significant role in the club getting left behind financially. You can’t really blame anyone in particular for this contribution — the supporters SHOULD have resisted the big money and commercialization. But the playing field was not level, and Liverpool couldn’t really keep up without Moores himself going bankrupt.
Which is something LB has pointed out. Moores was no genius, and it’s disappointing that he could not operate something as marketable as LFC to gain a profit. But the club itself was still in sustainable form when he did decide to call it a day. And at least he would never steal from the club. That all changed when the two flunkies took over.
Hicks and Gillett are, plain and simple, stealing from Liverpool. They ARE making money off of the club, and they’re just putting it towards outside investments or straight into their pockets. Any Liverpool-related debt — no matter the fact that they caused it — they direct straight to the club and not to themselves.
At this point, I don’t know who would even want to buy us. The only thing we really have going for us is a name brand — Liverpool: 18-Times English Champions and 5-Times European Champions.
The club is going to be owned by businessmen, whoever they are. Financially, it is in shambles, and the only way to fix it is to produce hundreds of millions out of pocket. And that’s just to get back on solid ground — not even thinking about making funds available for a transfer budget. What businessman would want to get involved with that?
So I hope and pray to Fowler that there is a ridiculously wealthy Liverpool supporter somewhere in the word — or a group of them who want to get together. What a nice thought it would be. “You know, all this money is just sitting around in the bank account. Why not use a bunch of it to save the club we love?”
And one more thing… The Liverpool Way does not have to die for us to compete. We do need to spend a lot of money, but it must be the right money spent in the right places. Look how close we came last year without having to transform into the Scum and or the Chavs. Rafa spends wisely and, as has been pointed out, even makes a profit for the club. We should be overwhelmed by our luck to have him as the boss. The fact that he can simply be bothered to put up with all the nonsense is something I don’t know that we even deserve.
So if we manage to send H&G on their way, every supporter needs to make it clear from day one that we’ll tolerate no more incompetence and greed.
Essentially, we need to ask a new owner to bail us out and then supply a reasonable transfer budget on top of that. This person should obviously care about LFC — not just want to use it for personal gain. Appointing a skilled executive like the cunts did with Kenyon would also be necessary.
What else do we need?
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 #215 |
Lurgankop
Posted on December 17, 2009 @ 9:59 pm
If Moores was so fucking stupid, then who steered him towards selling to the yanks and not DIC? It if was not Parry then who else could it have been?
As they said, you can only sell the family silver once and, at the time, they got the top dollar for that silver, whilst dropping us in the shit.
Seriously though, can Moores be that stupid? Can he, silver spoon or not? Would Foster Gillett make the same mistake in the future, with the same circumstances? Unfortunately, I seriously doubt it.
Maybe the real dumber and dumber were in control long before the yanks ever arrived and this would, maybe, epxlain why LFC has fell behind in the last 20 years! Until the Raffiah arrived!
BTW, I believe that Moores go his out-of-pocket money for Kuyt, when he sold us down the river. So maybe he is not so stupid after all!
Bitter and twisted? maybe I am, but I see what I see!
Rafa has disposed of two clowns. Maybe he can now do the same with the Yanks but this will be a long battle and he will need our support.
For once I will sign-off with YNWA.
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 #216 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 17, 2009 @ 10:00 pm
Sun King, sadly it’s all pie in the sky… The way forward was for Moores to sell half of the club to Steve Morgan. That way we would have had old money, new money, a constant stream of money from both their business interests outside the club, a good old fashioned chairman, part of the good old boys brigade, and a noveau rich hard nosed business man… both Scouse, and both died in the wool Reds.
Shame they hate each other’s guts.
In an ideal world, Share Liverpool would take over and we would become much like Barcelona. But as it stands, that is dead in the water. And there is no oil-rich prince that will ride to our aid on his white charger.
Fact is, we are stuck with The Borrowers for the foreseeable future and until they lower their ridiculous demands.
Having said that, those able to protest should and will, as for the rest of us who can’t because of geographical or other reasons, should always bear in mind what is really happening at the club before spitting the dummy over a draw at the likes of Blackburn.
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 #217 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 17, 2009 @ 10:03 pm
Nah Lurgan, Moores was duped. His only real crime was stupidity. But I’m not his appologist, and I understand why the majority would lynch him.
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 #218 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 17, 2009 @ 10:11 pm
Anyway, I’m off to drink a few cans of Grampy juice and play with the grandkids before Ninna Who Must Be Obeyed puts them to bed. But isn’t it nice to be able to talk some proper football and issues without all the usual bollacks.
I know I shouldn’t even mention it, but had to… it was like the good old days in here for awhile there.
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 #219 |
Lurgankop
Posted on December 17, 2009 @ 10:22 pm
How was he duped FS? I cannot understand this one, considering his family background and (probable) schooling.
Fucking dense or not, surely someone should have told him to get things in writing and not come to a ‘gentleman’s agreement’.
Agreed that it is refreshing to speak about proper LFC footy issues. So how do we keep this going? More LFC wins.
Anyway, fortunately, there are more important things in life. Enjoy the kids.
BTW digger, you’re a lucky BIFFO! Enjoy, any chance of a few links/pic?
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 #220 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on December 17, 2009 @ 10:49 pm
Lurgan, Moores biggest crime in my eyes was him not being able to identify that Rick Parry was an incompetent chief exec. If I inherit a company it is my responsibility to hire the best possible CEO. If I hire an idiot of a CEO and the company fail to progress financially despite its huge potential then ultimately it is my fault. At year end when the shareholders ask what the fuck is going on (which is what happened at Anfield in every annual general shareholders meeting from 1999-2005) I can’t tell them its the chief exec’s fault.
Words cannot describe how much of a bad decision it was to sell to the yanks.
Gillett approached the club twice before but he didn’t get anywhere because simply he did not have enough money. So he came back a third time with Hicks. They sold to the 2 of them not bothering to do any research on Hicks whatsoever.
How utterly ridiculous is it to be owned by 2 men who own 50% each. 2 men who had never before gone into business together. 2 men whom all of the sports franchises they own are unsuccessful.
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 #221 |
Lurgankop
Posted on December 17, 2009 @ 11:35 pm
LB, titles aside, Moores was the CEO. He had the final say, no matter what. Just look at Microsoft and Bill Gates standing aside – complete bollix!
I am not the brighest spark in the world, but if I was selling a business (cue the laughter), I would be looking for my guarantees in writing i.e you will not put more than x pounds debt onto LFC, or one of their subisidary companies as of 3100, or whatever date you want to pluck from your arse.
It’s simple logic, which every CBC or human being would do when buying/selling a house.
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 #222 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 17, 2009 @ 11:38 pm
Well, kids are in the land of nod. LB… when the yanks rode into town, waving dollars, and shouting Snoogey Doogey, the majority, if not all of us, were made up. We were just as stupid.
On top of that, Rick Parry was hired because he was head bean counter at the FA and apparently a huge success. It has to be remembered he was one of the driving forces in forming the Premiere League and one of the main players that brought the mega money into the game.
But I also think it was Brian Barwick, who was head of the FA at the time and a life long Liverpool fan, who pushed him into the job, believing he was a hard nosed business man who would drag LFC into the modern business world.
But you’re entirely right, Moores = complete and utter mug. You only have to look at the dopey bastard to realise that… big droopy 70′s porno tash, wounded dewey puppy dog eyes, and ploppy kid’s face like a melted welly… mug written all over him.
Hicks and Gillette must have been orgasiming when they met him… sort of like the playground bully meeting the posh daft kid with loads of expensive toys.
But yes, yourself, Lurgan and all the other people that blame him are entirely right… stupidity is no defense.
And there’s a matter of DIC being vetted for months, only to be fucked off, and Hicks and Gillette being handed the family silver once they offered 20 million more.
I can’t remember the exact amount of time off the top of me head, but once the shysters offered that the deal was done in days… and Rick and Dave drove off in their brand new, fire engine red Ferraris.
What a pair of cunts, eh. I can see them in me mind’s eye with fluffy dice hanging from the rear view mirrors and Rick and Dave across the windscreens.
In fact, fuck it… round up the villagers, light the torches, we is gonna have a lynchin!
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 #223 |
bigbry
Posted on December 17, 2009 @ 11:52 pm
Evening Chaps.
Hate to disagree with the majority, but I believe Moores biggest crime is to believe in people and give them the benefit of the doubt.
If we cast our minds back, Abramovich had taken over at Chelsea, it looked like the writing was on the wall for us financially, and we all got desperate. My honest opinion is that the fans are just as much to blame as Moores. Yes DIC were all set to take over but a few press reports stating that they were going to sell up within 7 years,the fans fretted, Moores panicked and along came 2 silver tongued cavaliers who (like Kaa the snake from Jungle Book) said all the right words and whistled the right tunes, and moores in his desperation showed vulnerability and was duped (and say what you like about these two they are good businessmen otherwise they wouldnt be where they are). You could say Moores shouldnt have been duped but I have to say we were.
I honestly think Moores intentions were good, and I bet every night he goes to bed he agonises over what he has done. Alas its done, nothing we can do about it now.
And why are we priced so high, 1 word CLASS. Chelsea cant buy it, Citeh cant buy it. The Mancs dont have it.
Yes our Class is being eroded by simpletons who phone Talksport and fall for the imbecillic bile being spouted by halfwits who are either incapable of formulating an educated of themselves, or of people who should know better and toe the line for the sake of a few quid. But nevertheless we have class in abundance.
These owners know it, they know others know it and they put a price on it. Unpalatable it is, nauseating it is, but unfortunately true it is.
How do we combat it, well again at the risk of talking above my station, we back our manager, we support our players, and we base our opinions on the big green area that we can see in the middle of a football stadium called Anfield, not on the whim of a sensationalist driven media.
I feel that I must come clean at this point and inform you all that during the dark days of Houlliers reign, I too was taken in by the media frenzy and I booed the team after a nil nil draw with Southampton, it was a 5 second boo and I have honestly regretted it ever since.
Were better than that.
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 #224 |
bigbry
Posted on December 17, 2009 @ 11:58 pm
FS @ 181
Cheers,
We talk the same lingo, I reckon we will get on
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 #225 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 18, 2009 @ 12:00 am
Ah well, I’m off… If you get ITV4 the Big Match Revisited is on… Chelsea v Liverpool from 1979. Might be worth a giggle.
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 #226 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 18, 2009 @ 12:03 am
Bry… I booed Kewell in Istanbull. The one and only time I ever booed the team or a player and the prick deserved it, but it still leaves a sour taste in the mouth near 5 years on.
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 #227 |
bigbry
Posted on December 18, 2009 @ 12:05 am
FS,
Youre bigger and better than me then mate.
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 #228 |
Lurgankop
Posted on December 18, 2009 @ 12:10 am
Disagree all you want Bigbry but if YOU WERE the boss of LFC (i.e. Moores), would you have done the same thing?
Or maybe you would have asked some fucker to look at what the potential buyers had done in the past.
Has anyone noticed that this is a prickly subject for me?
Anyway, from a Simpson’s point-of-view, here’s what I think was going on at the time in the anifeld boardroom!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBBFzerJ1Ss
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 #230 |
Aitch
Posted on December 18, 2009 @ 3:57 am
This is an even more difficult discussion than one about whether certain players are good or not, or whether Rafa knows what he is doing or not… coz there is simply far more passion wrapped up in it.
But just take a breath, set your feelings asicde for a moment and think about this.
Instead of selling the club, ifMoores had fired Parry, hired a Proper 21st Century Businessman, then borrowed 270 million quid (the initial debt lumped onto the club by G&H)
…deducting the approximate 100 million we’ve spent on players since their arrival (arrived at through increasing that loan ammount… urgh!)
…we’d have the squad we have now (more or less, not considering players who would not have been bought coz we had momney for better lads)
… AND we’d have had 170 million left over to buy … oh, say… David Villa, David Silva, and Andre Arshavin, … (before their prices went through the roof) …(like we did with Nando)
…had enough left over to buy a defender or two.
…and maybe 40/50 odd million to rent a couple of bulldozers and buy some cement… as opposed to 1 ceremonial spade and a porta loo!
Sure, we’d be still 270 million in debt… but NOT the 350 million we are currently saddled with…
… we’d have a far superior squad,
… we’d probably have additional silverware (no guarantees of course, but highly likely)
…we’d actually likely be worth the ludicrous 400 mill price tag G&H lumped us with, (before arbitrarily raising that to 500????)
… and would be in a position to actually build/finish a new stadium.
We know the alternative… but just imagine if that’d happened!
That is what makes my boil! Not the reality we have now, but the reality that could have been!
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 #231 |
Diggerno.10
Posted on December 18, 2009 @ 10:07 am
I’m with Lurgan and LB on this one. I have absolutely no sympathy for Moores or Parry but ultimately Moores must carry the can. Its not Parrys fault he’s incompetent, its Moores fault for enabling it. Both of them should be ashamed of themselves taken in by a dog and pony show, scammed by two flim flam men. Fucken disgraceful. Moores legacy could very well be the ruination of LFC and the annihilation of over a century of tradition. Heckuva job Brownie…
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 #232 |
Diggerno.10
Posted on December 18, 2009 @ 10:20 am
Yeah Lurgan hopefully I’ll get some pix and I’ll email them to LB, maybe you could post them on the site LB? Cos I’m absolutely shit at that stuff! Completely computer illiterate is Digger! I’d also check the site LFCNY.org next week Lurgan, I’d say they’ll have a link or page with pix. Anybody any questions for the big man? Obviously I’m gonna ask him bout the yanks, our current form and what are ya having to drink! But any others?
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 #233 |
steve the red
Posted on December 18, 2009 @ 11:22 am
Dig, what about asking Jan who he thinks we need to sign to make the real difference and turn us into champions. We all know we don’t have any money, but it would be nice to get his view anyway.
He is a good ex-player for you to be meeting, because you can tell he still loves the club and he won’t stick the boot in for no reason.
When he comments on LFC he is honest and objective. Wish some of the other ex-players could be like that!
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 #234 |
Lurgankop
Posted on December 18, 2009 @ 12:01 pm
Nice one digger.
I would like to know from the big Dane who he thinks will/should give way when Aquaman is a regular starter. Also, should Aqua or Stevie G play behind Torres?
Finally, how quick was he over 100m because contrary to belief he could shift a bit in his early days.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOkZOcMjBe4
I think that’s Clayton Blackmore trying to track him down there. Now that is a blast from the past!
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 #235 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 18, 2009 @ 12:01 pm
Well, if, if, if, if, and, and, and, but, but, but it’s his fault, no it’s his fault, no it’s…
Doesn’t really matter. We’re in the shit, whichever way you look at it, and like Rafa says… We have to get on with it.
He’s accepted the facts. He gets accused of moaning and whingeing about the lack of funds, and then lies told about what he’s spent, by every drunken hack, pundit, expert and ex-player the media can dig up. When the fact is, all the lad has said about money this season is… “The main thing this season, was to lower the debt.”
If you actually listen to Rafa, you’ll find he’s always letting us, the supporters, in on what’s really happening. And you’d think we’d take notice of him rather than the likes of Souness, Whelan, Merson, Nicholas, ad infinitum.
Oh well, what can you do?
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 #236 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on December 18, 2009 @ 12:24 pm
FS, its all your fault.
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 #237 |
Diggerno.10
Posted on December 18, 2009 @ 12:25 pm
2 very good questions there lads, they’ll certainly be asked. Yeah I cant wait Steve, Im like a kid at Christmas! Jan was one of my favourite reds, his vision, his speed of thought and his execution of that vision….just amazing. Truly world class. I remember, I think it was Kenny, saying at a function once, that ‘when Jan became available, the 3 clubs tied in pursuit of his signature, were Barca, Ajax and Liverpool. And thats all you need to know about Jan’. Indeed.
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 #238 |
Lurgankop
Posted on December 18, 2009 @ 12:38 pm
I hear ya FS and those are the cards that we have been dealt but it still grates.
So going forward, as Atich has already said, the only way we can get some dosh in Jan is to sell. Babel/Dosser would be the only guys that we could get some decent money for but this would be risky considering our track record with injuries and current squad depth.
So basically a few kids will come in Jan with, maybe, a few from the 1st team squad going out to reduce the wage bill and beef up the transfer budget for the summer transfers.
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 #239 |
bhavster
Posted on December 18, 2009 @ 12:38 pm
lads the europa draw is in 15 mins. some interesting games in the champions league.
YNWA
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 #241 |
KeithSA
Posted on December 18, 2009 @ 12:58 pm
You know its desperate time when I start to agree with Digger (just had to be revived after going into shock) Stupidity is not a defense not matter how you define it and being devastated after the fact is even worse in my book. Yes shit things happen to good people and sometimes you get nailed no matter which way you jump, but Moors has to take full responsibility for the entire sorry affairs and being a die hard reds fan makes his crime worse in my eyes. By all account he was born with a golden shovel up his arse, which means access to all and any expert advice. When you negotiate any deal of this magnitude you have an army of accountants and lawyers to do due diligence and the fine print in the contracts will be pages long. Moors has to have caved in at every corner to allow these two twats to do exactly what they wanted to do and buy the club by lumping everything onto LFC. There was no cash down payment no penalty clauses or get out of free jail cards. If the reason for selling the club was to take it forward them that has to be written into the contract, no stadium within 60 days you are in default, a further 60 days and you forfeit and a forced sale or buy back is pushed through. These are the type of instructions a die hard Liverpool supporter writes into a contract when selling the family silverware. Ye Moors is a moron just by keeping Prick Harry on board when the entire world and his dog knows that he is incompetent, but selling to these two twats amounts to something akin to conspiracy or in simple terms plain greed if all he cared about was the extra 20 mill. Crying he is sorry after the fact get him no sympathy from me. It reminds me of the school bully who sobs his eyes out when he gets caught and his parents are brought in. I did not see this lifetime supporter jumping to invest and buy back into the club to try and makes things right. No he just sits there with his hang dog face. As for his dislike of Steve Morgan, when you talk business it’s the person who can do the job that counts not whether you can have a pint with him. Sorry he gets fuck all sympathy from me.
As for fucking Wimbledon and Dave Basset they where our boogy team for quite some time, similar to (Fat Sams) Bolton was to Arsenal. For you younger folk they had the crazy gang, Dennis Wise, (yes the one that fucked up the barcodes) Vinny Jones (he fucks up everybody, used to grab Gazza balls on the pitch just to show him who’s boss, famous pic of that incident ) and Dave Beasent (goal keeper, actually played for Chelsea after he saved a Rush penalty in the FA cup final when they beat us, I still have not recovered from loosing that final) they basically mugged teams with the long ball and intimidation. Good old days. Who remembers the Milton Keynes adds of the eighties everybody used to go yeah right fuck off?
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 #242 |
An Linn
Posted on December 18, 2009 @ 1:20 pm
A couple of questions for Jan, Digger
Who was the best player he ever played with and who was the best he ever played against.
I’m always interested in who footballers think were the best players usually its different than what you would assume
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 #243 |
Lurgankop
Posted on December 18, 2009 @ 1:27 pm
We got some team from Romania that sounds like a very serious disease – unirea urziceni.
No idea who they are.
Should have seen Kenny’s face when the draw was made? If was like who the fuck are these pack. Classic!
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 #244 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on December 18, 2009 @ 1:39 pm
Keith, post of the week there.
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 #245 |
Dizzy
Posted on December 18, 2009 @ 1:42 pm
Is it only me or someone else also wanna bang that idiot Mersons dumb Ass ???
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 #246 |
Lurgankop
Posted on December 18, 2009 @ 1:55 pm
Great post Keith but I think that you are doing Rushie a disservice there. It was Aldo who had the ignominy of being the first player to miss a pen in the FA cup final.
Doesn’t change the result and I still am pissed-off about that game, 20-odd years on.
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 #247 |
timmytorres
Posted on December 18, 2009 @ 2:04 pm
Great discussion in here lads.Had Xmas do with the job last night so nursing a hangover here.
Moores gets the vote of No Sympathy from me also.Silver spoon or not,thick fuck or not,he simply didn`t do his homework.There is a lot more to blame for this also (Parry) but the final buck (no pun intended) stopped with Moores.It`s not like he was some 18 year old rich kid who just flogged a business his daddy left him.
DIC spent months looking at the books and were carefully planning their takeover and Gillete comes in with the other dumbass who had to Google LFC to see ho they were offered extra cash and the 30 pieces of silver were handed over.
Drives me fuckin crazy.
Looking at the draw for Europa league.Unrirea urizceni.Win that,we play either fenerbache or lille.
Wouldn`t mind a trip to france for the away leg.
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 #248 |
timmytorres
Posted on December 18, 2009 @ 2:11 pm
Wimbeldon 88 eh,the biggest upset in sporting history.
Poor oul Aldo that penalty miss still haunts him to this day.
That was his last touch of the ball that day.Kenny pulled him straight away he could see it had got to Aldo.
12 months on 1989 cup final Aldo`s first touch on the wembley turf was to strike early on for the reds against Everton.
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 #249 |
KeithSA
Posted on December 18, 2009 @ 2:37 pm
Sorry Lurgan dead right Aldo, but you have to admit they could be brothers.
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 #250 |
bhavster
Posted on December 18, 2009 @ 3:29 pm
Lurgan Unirea Urziceni were in Sevilla’s champions league group and finished with 8 points.
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 #251 |
timmytorres
Posted on December 18, 2009 @ 3:41 pm
Managed by the former chav Dan Petrescu they gave a decent account of themselves in their first season in the champoins league.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FC_Unirea_Urziceni
Alittle look at our opponents.They call themselves the “Chelsea of Ialomi?a”.
So thats one reason to beat the crap out of them
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 #252 |
timmytorres
Posted on December 18, 2009 @ 3:43 pm
That should read “lalomita”
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 #253 |
timmytorres
Posted on December 18, 2009 @ 3:44 pm
Did you get the canvas yet Lurgan?
If you did whats it like?
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 #254 |
bhavster
Posted on December 18, 2009 @ 4:47 pm
apparently we will be signing Milos Krasic in Jan. He plays for CSKA now and turned Scums down to join us. 90% certain of this. FS you heard anything on this?
YNWA
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 #255 |
Sun King
Posted on December 18, 2009 @ 6:31 pm
Great comments in here. Golden stuff. It’s so crucial to understand just how the hell we ended up here so that we can make sure — once we’re finally dug out of this mess — nothing like it ever happens again.
The general consensus appears to be that Parry was incompetent, the fans were duped, and Moores was both incompetent and duped. And it seems most people are going to place the brunt of the blame on Moores’s shoulders — I can’t say I disagree with that.
But what’s done is done. All in all, I still think H&G must always be the most guilty parties here. Moores may have sold us up shit’s creek without a paddle, but he at least handed those bastards a sustainable product that could have easily seen growth and development.
The Yanks have taken that product — OUR passion — and they’re trying to rape it for everything it’s worth.
So rather than lynch Moores, I think we need to focus our energy on simply ousting the current owners. Make it so uncomfortable for them that they cannot stand the burden of being associated with the club any longer. Get them to lower their stupid, unreasonable demands and sell as soon as possible.
And the fans must understand that this is only the first step. Whoever ends up owning the club after they’re gone is going to have a hell of a time trying to get us headed back in the right direction. This is going to be a long, hard battle, and David Villa won’t be wearing a red shirt any time soon.
Anyway, I’m mostly preaching to the choir here. But anyone else out there reading what’s been written here recently… if you were unconvinced before, I hope you start to understand and embrace what the true objective should be — YANKS OUT!
We just can’t resign ourselves to waiting it out with these borrowers. They’re going to bleed every last bank note out of the club, and we’ll be well and truly fucked.
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 #256 |
theredman
Posted on December 18, 2009 @ 6:51 pm
Great comment Keith(241).
Also Aitch’s (204), the Ponzi scheme eh Aitch, i wondered what happened to this week’s Giro, but in all honesty i have never heard of it ( some intelligent men in here and one can learn a lot, take note CBC, but i must agree that Moores did’nt end up where he was in the LFC set up by being a gobshite he had to have some modicum of intellect, and have to agree that there was a certain amount of greed attributed to his decision of selling one of the Bastion’s of world football to two fuckin idiot’s who know so much about football, they called a goalkeeper a Stopper.
YNWA.
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 #257 |
somnath07in
Posted on December 18, 2009 @ 6:58 pm
@FS
#202
Nice and informative post. Enjoyed reading it.
@Aitch
#203
I can understand your point. Thanks for the explanation.
After what i read it is clear that LFC are in this financial mess because of Moore+Parry+Present Owners.
The best thing which could happen to us at this stage is probably some middle east tycoon coming and buying the club.
It is unanimously agreed here that the American Owners should go.Whether that will happen or not we dont know.
What if for a moment we accept it that these two stupid owners will stay here until they build the stadium,earn significant revenues and then
probably sell the club.
Do we have some kind of idea based on which we can atleast say that after all these mess,our club with these two clowns on board are actually starting to do the right things?
All i am trying to say is there is no point thinking what could happen when Hicks and Gillet leave. It is more important to think that given the situation we are in..what are the possible right steps and are these clowns taking those?
So my question to all you learned fans..do you guys think that they are atleast moving in the right direction(if at all they are moving)?
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 #258 |
An Linn
Posted on December 18, 2009 @ 7:30 pm
somnath07in – now I wouldn’t call myself learned in any form but my own opinion is that whats right for G+H is not whats right for Liverpool – all they want is to sell on for a profit whereas LFC needs investment,transfer funds and a new stadium. To turn it around would require a long term investment that they are not prepared to make.
Which brings me on to an oil baron or DIC buying out the club – I’d prefer if a local consortium or some such bought out the club, some people who know about the club and its history and were prepeared to make a loss for two years to turn it around.
We wouldn’t be loaded ala City or Chelsea but with Rafa at the helm and the scouting system reformed we should be in a much better position than we are in now financally and trophywise
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 #259 |
Sun King
Posted on December 18, 2009 @ 7:34 pm
I don’t consider myself a learned fan, but Somnath, they’re not going to do the right things. They’re not going to build a stadium. They’re pretty much not going to do anything but sit there and steal whatever money the club brings in.
They’ve made it very clear that whatever revenues they earn through Liverpool — significant or otherwise — will not be placed back into Liverpool. The most obvious case of this is the “must sell in order to buy” transfer policy.
Once the revenues shrink to a smaller significance than they fancy, they’ll get rid of the club. And the club will be left with nothing.
I can’t really think of the right metaphor, but maybe it’s like having an apple tree. For a while it’ll give you some nice apples, and you can have yourself a fruit feast. But instead of taking some of the seeds from the apples you’ve eaten and putting them in the ground to grow more trees, you just eat all the apples and then let the damn tree die. Well, now the apple tree is not giving you anything, so it’s useless to you. And you just go off and try to find a new one that might give you more and bigger apples.
Once Liverpool is of no more use to H&G, they’ll take all of the money they’ve earned from it and invest in something else. I mean, they’re already doing that as we speak.
So accepting that they’re here and we have to deal with them, entertaining the possibility that they might take the right steps, examining what the right things for them to do might be? That is NOT an option.
The only right steps and the only right direction? Hicks and Gillett walking down the steps that lead them in the direction of the exit.
And whoever the new owner ends up being — sadly, we don’t have much control over this — we need to be down their throats from the second they take over the club. No more sitting back and letting stupid rich people do whatever they want with our club.
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 #260 |
Aitch
Posted on December 18, 2009 @ 7:38 pm
theredman, everyone in today’s day and age should know who Ponzi was, and know at least a little bit about him.
Charles Ponzi was an Italian American who is credited with the first large-scale “pyramid” con-scheme in New York circa 1910.
Here’s a link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme
Why is this important?
Simly put… ALL of the investment and Banking mess we just went through in the last few years is directly attributable to the basic tennets of the Ponzi Scheme.
AIG, The Iceland Bank, the housing crisis… ALL of it!
Extremely intelligent men… far smarter than Moores or Parry… along with millions of average people who just wanted to try to better their circumstances… fell for this scheme.
Now please, do not take any of this, as in any way excusing, or defending, anyone involved in the LFC sale debaucle.
But if we are gonna call a spade, a spade, then we need to agree what a spade is, and not confuse a spade with a trowel.
(my apologies to the foreign lads who, after reading that sentence, are thinking “what the fuck is he on about?”)
From what I recall… DIC had a plan to only be in charge of LFC for a specified number of years, at which point they would reassess their investment and possibly sell. So let’s keep that in mind before saying we should have sold to DIC!
(AGAIN… don’t take that wrong… its a bloody good bet we’d be massively better off under DIC, rather than G&H, but lets not ignore the possibility that rather than Guardian Angels, they could easily have been the Devil we don’t know.)
G&H bought for 270, refinanced for 350 at a time when people were doing that.
Average Joes were buying houses for 100k and selling them a year later for 130k, then upgrading and buying a house for 190k and selling it 2 years later for 200k.
These houses weren’t actually “worth” more… a FALSE market was driving prices up.
The entire housing market was a Ponzi Scheme.
And Business and Investment markets were being run the same way.
At the time G&H bought us, they figured that they could turn around and sell us for 2/3 times their purchase price 5 years later… and make no mistake… THAT… is what they meant by “custodians of the club”… and at the time… it probably looked a good plan on paper. (at the time!)
(This plan remember, got us Torres and Babel… bought with a refinance loan that they thought they’d get back…)
Think about their first 2 years at the helm. They could have actually sold the club on to DIC within 18 months and walked away with 120 million profit… but they got greedy, held out and the market collapsed from under them.
I reiterate, I am in no way making excuses for them… but lets understand the situation.
Moores, Parry, the OTHER shareholders, the OTHER members of the board, G & H, and uncle Tom Cobbely and all… are ALL to blame in some measure.
When this deal was done… the roullette wheel had been constantly landing on a black number… they all stuck LFC on black… and let it ride… but pretty soon… it came up red.
THAT … is a ponzi scheme.
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 #261 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 18, 2009 @ 7:56 pm
254: Bhavster, I don’t know anything about any new interest in him. I know Rafa wanted the lad awhile back, and he wanted to come here, but we couldn’t afford him. Don’t see how that will have changed.
Sun King, there’s plenty of work getting done in Liverpool to get them out. You should keep an eye on the SOS site. But there’s little anyone can do.
LB: yeah. You’re right… it’s all down to me.
Oh well…
The Champion’s League can kiss my arse.
We’re in the Europa League at last.
Bucharest it is then. That’ll do for me. Just checking flights and hotels. I’ll take the Boss with me for this one. 300 quid for our flights. 150 for an apartment for 3 day… just hope the benfits hold out.
Arsing about aside, Redman get on it lad. Ciggies and baccy will sort it. Ciggies are about a nicker a packet. I’ll have to get Missus Fat Scouser’s big bag out.
Off to Pompey in the morning. Train from Southampton is already cancelled. It’s a fuckin nightmare. Train from Bournemouth, change to a bus in Southampton, change back onto a train in Outer Bum Fuck Dorset or somewhere, then into Pompey. And the weather’s getting worse.
Red, a few lads from Huyton was supposed to get here tonight, stay in mine, and then on to the match in the morning. That’s went tits up thanks to the weather, even the road gritters couldn’t get through. So, I’m supposed to meet them at the ground now. Hope I don’t travel, get there and they haven’t made it. I must be fuckin mental, last Saturday before Crimbo, busiest day of the year for me. And I’ve probably went and blown it out to sit in a bloody snow jam on some cattle train. What a divvy eh.
Digger, ask Jan why he didn’t go back to Walton to visit Jenko?
Oh and Somnath… go fuck off, you gobshite.
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 #262 |
Aitch
Posted on December 18, 2009 @ 7:56 pm
somnath
G&H are absolutely NOT taking us in the right direction… simply because they don’t know what that direction is.
They do not, even now, have a fundamental understanding of how Football works (different from American Sports)… how the Premiership works, and the nature/culture of English sport.
They started with what has become a failed business plan/model.
They didn’t cut their losses (which laughably, still would have made them a tidy profit) when they could… and are still holding out hope that they can work a big deal, that they can walk away from wringing their hands. (and given what happened at Man Citeh, its not an entirely unreasonable expectation on their part.)
G&H have actually taken money out of the club (some reports suggest up to 100 million) while requiring Rafa to sell players to help balance the books.
Gillette just made 300 million Dollars, selling his Canadiens Hockey franchise… after declaring bankrupcy so he wouldn’t have to pay his creditors.
Hicks is about to do the same with his baseball outfit.
None of that money will go into LFC… AND they are trying to get someone else to invest 120 million… just for a 10% stake in the club??? (WTF?)
G&H are NOT the way forward in the LONG term and they are NOT the way forward in the SHORT term.
Any new buyer might very well turn out to be the “Devil we don’t know”… making any such sale celebrations short lived… but at this moment in time… we are between a rock and a hard place.
We need them out ASAP!
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 #263 |
Sun King
Posted on December 18, 2009 @ 7:56 pm
Aitch, well said.
We’re past the days of people just looking at football as football — something that exists and operates on its own. But we don’t generally look at things with this kind of magnitude.
Most everyone understands that football is a business, but when you hear “Ponzi scheme,” “Bernie Madoff,” and “government bailout” in the news, the first thing that pops into your head is probably not Liverpool Football Club.
But if you’re a Red, it may as well be.
The problem is getting people like the “Sack Rafa!” brigade to take all of this in. There are so many bridges of cause-and-effect in between that it’s impossible to map it all out in one sitting.
But if you asked someone like me, “Why has Rafa been unable this season to put a team on the pitch that consistently wins matches?” I very well might reply, “Well, why don’t we start with what happened on the New York Stock Exchange in the Fall 0f 2008?”
|
 #264 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 18, 2009 @ 8:12 pm
If a club doesn’t pay it’s players, or any player, their due wages for 2 weeks running that player then becomes a free agent and can literally walk out on the club.
That’s how easy it is for a club, from the bottom division to the top, to fall apart.
I’ve been banging on about this for over two years. Football will eventually eat itself.
|
 #265 |
Sun King
Posted on December 18, 2009 @ 8:26 pm
FS, I stay as up to date with the goings-on of SOS as I can. I just wish I could take more of an active role.
Sadly, I’m about as far away from Liverpool as I am from Dallas, Texas. Now, there are millions of football fans in Texas — it’s just the wrong type of football. Otherwise, I’d try to rally up those southern lads, and we’d all have a nice piss on Hicks’s front lawn.
Other than not buying any merchandise from the club, I’d like to organize a way to disrupt the other business ventures that Hicks and Gillett have.
The Liverpool Supporters Club in New York was instrumental in getting that cunt Cohen off the air, and they’re the strongest group of supporters in America. I’d like to see them spearhead a bigger movement to get these two cunts to sell. They have interests over here, and we must be able to impact them substantially.
Digger, you’ll be in with LFCNY this weekend. Are you quite active with this bunch? Anything being done to launch a campaign on a massive scale to rid the club of these scum?
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 #267 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 18, 2009 @ 8:40 pm
Sun King email me, [email protected]
Posted this a moment ago but it didn’t come up, so stick an h on it, looks like old Guillam is trying to get back in the good books…
ttp://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/columnists/guillem-balague/Why-Liverpool-are-actually-punching-above-their-weight-despite-what-the-critics-are-saying-article260271.html?
…but it’s well worth a read.
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 #268 |
SonOfAKhan
Posted on December 18, 2009 @ 8:57 pm
Wimbeldon 88. Reading that in here brought back dark memories and just need to say it out. An
elder brother, a manc supporter, and a friend bullied and taunted me in front of the tv until I actually cried. And they did not bloody stop even after that. I can still see their faces and hear them laughing. Damn it left a deep scar in me.
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 #269 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on December 18, 2009 @ 9:09 pm
FS, regarding players not being paid by their club and becoming a free agent. It’s if they don’t get paid in 2 consecutive months mate not 2 weeks. Not being a smart arse but I found it interesting when reading about Portsmouth and Crystal Palace a few weeks ago.
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 #270 |
Aitch
Posted on December 18, 2009 @ 9:09 pm
SOAK,
a lot of people forget that we were 1-0 up inside of 20 minutes in that FA Cup final… a perfectly good goal by Peter Beardsley …in fact quite a stellar one, where he shrugged off a rash tackle, then danced between 2 other players, to rocket a finish from 15 yards… only for the ref to blow up the second the ball hit the back of the net, to award us a free-kick for that initial rash tackle.
Moments change games. That goal stands and we’d have steam-rolled them that day… crazy gang or not!
|
 #271 |
theredman
Posted on December 18, 2009 @ 9:20 pm
Thank’s for the info Aitch,
but you must forgive this ignorant old wretch as i can honestly say with hand on heart i have never heard of him or his dealing’s, but tell you what i am a fuckin good bibliophile as i read everynight in bed and have done for the last 30 odd years so i will certainly dig something up on old Ponzi.
FS, dont expect the lads down unless they drive themselves as more snow a lot more is forecasted for the south at the weekend but hope you dont spend it on your todd, as for the ciggies mate its 2yrs and 2 mths since i gave up and i can say i have never been so ill in my fuckin life, first (and this is no joke) i got alopecia, then that fuckin diverticulitis shit then i had to go and have a check up on my prostrate gland as i kept pissing razor blades like Tom Hanks in “The Green Mile” (one of my all time favourite film’s and a great book by Stephen King)anyway i’m hopefully on the mend now.
By the way all my hair is back now but what a fuckin miserable 18mths that was, oh well could be worse i could be a manc with Burgerman as my next-door neighbour.
YNWA
|
 #272 |
Aitch
Posted on December 18, 2009 @ 9:21 pm
Sun King,
I actually have to laugh when I hear people bitching about how Bernie Madoff (and his ilk) ripped them off.
On the odd occasion that I go to a Casino, or race track, I usually play the numbers on a roullette wheel, rather than the outside lines. I’ll frequently bet on a 22-1 long-shot over a 3-1 fave… my gambling philosophy is… you might as well pitch for a more favorable return…
… but come on…you don’t have to be a fuckin econommics PhD to know that when it comes to your investments or retirment prospects… you hedge your bets!
If someone tells me, “give me 10 quid and in 2 weeks I’ll give you back 200 quid.”
I know right away, there’s a greater likelihood of me never seeing my 10 quid again, than ever seeing the fucker handing me that 200.
|
 #273 |
Aitch
Posted on December 18, 2009 @ 9:38 pm
thered… ouch… fuckin ‘ell mate, you’ve been through the wars.
Ain’t age a bitch?
I sincerely hope you are on the mend and all the best! (If I was the praying sort, I’d pray for you, but I’m not so you’re on your own, sorry.)
But hang in there, Rafa will get you a PL before you pop off!
I’d never heard of Ponzi until about 8 years ago, when I did some work for a friend of mine, only to discover, as it turned out, that his entire business model was a Ponzi Scheme.
I figured it our within about 6 weeks, but by that time, he was already using my name (I’d just won a somewhat prestigeous award for my work) and reputation to help sell the fuckin thing to investors!
|
 #274 |
Sun King
Posted on December 18, 2009 @ 9:42 pm
FS, email sent.
Aitch, you would think it would be easy to see as that, right? An old friend of mine got hooked into one — not Madoff’s — and as far as I know, he’s been trying to hook others in ever since. Needless to say, we’re not friends anymore.
Madoff and these pricks must tell some good stories. And people, in general, are just greedy. They WANT to believe that you can work miracles, and if you’ve got a good enough story, they’ll fall for it. The whole premise is that you’ll be successful by simply playing your cards right, no? And everyone wants to think that they’re the clever ones who will play the best hand. Of course, the reality is… you’re not that clever, and the whole thing is bollocks! Oops, now you just lost a whole lot of money.
Wait, this whole losing money thing sounds a very familiar story. Where on earth have I heard recently about good stories and money just vanishing? And by recently, I mean since February 6, 2007…
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 #275 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 18, 2009 @ 9:46 pm
Fuckinell lad, Alopecia… HA! You poor bastard. You must have got fuckin ragged off them ruthless bastards in Huyton. You’d at least get a bit of sympathy for the big C or something. You poor fucker you.
The lads are leaving early morning, I think they should make it. Me mate from Bootle just got down here about an hour ago, said it wasn’t too bad. He popped in for a minute and fucked off the alehouse. So, I’ll see him tomorrow, just worried about the lads not making it… selfish fucker. Not arsed about them. Just worried about going all the way to Pompey, missing me best days wages, and not even getting there. Fuckinell, like being back in the 70′s and hitching somewhere mate.
LB, I didn’t even realise I’d typed a week. Altimers or as it’s more commonly known round Anfield… Moore’s disease. I thought I’d said month… but let’s face it, even that shows how fragile the whole shebang is.
There’s quite a few clubs in the shit at this moment. And we’ve already had Leeds, but how long until one of the real giants get into proper deep trouble… We aren’t the only ones in the shit. The Glaziers, Roman… could easily see a major fuck up on the horizon there.
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 #276 |
SonOfAKhan
Posted on December 18, 2009 @ 9:47 pm
Aitch, it has been easier to blank out the memories since, really. The loss to crystal palace in the FA semis of 1990 was hard to swallow as well.
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 #277 |
Sun King
Posted on December 18, 2009 @ 10:02 pm
SonOfAKhan, let’s hope we can all start forging some better memories some time soon.
You know, with all the discussion going on, there’s been no talk of the match. I have to say it’s delightful in here when we can just have faith in the boss and trust that we’ll get a result. Let’s take it to the turks and keep our foot on the gas until the opposition is truly beaten and dead.
I’m off until Monday probably. Cheers, all!
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 #278 |
Aitch
Posted on December 18, 2009 @ 10:04 pm
Sun King,
these scemes aren’t like a poker game wher you can outmaneuver someone, or bluff them, or even just take your chances hoping for the best.
people do… always… make money from them… but more people lose money than make money.
…but because people DO make money, they can always be made to look attractive propositions.
You remember the old pyramid letter, right?
That was based on Ponzi.
10 of you in here send me 10 quid each.
I make 100 quid.
Those 10 people then recruit 10 other people in here to give them 10 quid each
So those first 10 now each make 100 quid for their initial 10 quid investment that they sent me.
Now you’ve 100 people, who then have to recruit 10 people each, to send them 10 quid.
That’s 1000 people involved now… and at some point the chain breaks… the folks at the top of the pyramid, the first ones in, make money!
The further down the chain, the lower on the pyramid, the later you get into the game, and people don’t make their money.
Had G&H bought us even TWO years earlier, they’d have “flipped us” for a tidy profit, before the “financial crisis”… but they came in too late.
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 #279 |
timmytorres
Posted on December 18, 2009 @ 10:14 pm
At least we mauled them in the charity shield that August Aitch.The wembley pitch was shocking that day.It was better suited for speedway.
FS,It looks like your going to do the rough route to the game tomorrow.You might as well roll back the years and get the thumb in action again!
Just bought “15 minutes that shook the world”.Can`t wait to watch it from what i heard its dead funny.
Well game is almost upon us,early start tomorrow.A scrappy three points will do for me.In fact we will have to scrap for the points.Pompey wil not lie down.They showed that on wednesday night when they should have,at least,got a point from the fridge.
I`ll throw my team out anyway and hope Rafa is reading and will take my advice.
No Goalkeeper
Carra
johnson mash insua
aquallini
kuyt,gerrard,benny
N`gog,Nando,Pacheco
Simple.So simple.
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 #280 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 18, 2009 @ 10:16 pm
Ponzi scheme…
Forward this post to 10 people and you know what you’ll get….
FUCK ALL!
That’s right, Fuck All.
You won’t get money, good luck or a nice surprise, or a holiday in the Carribean, just fuck all nothing.
It’s true.
It works.
I sent it on to ten people and I got FUCK ALL!
But don’t break the chain.
It’s the only one of these things that actually works.
So, here’s you’re guarantee… send it and get FUCK ALL!
Try it.
It actually works! And it cost FUCK ALL!
I think that’s that done and dusted then Aitch.
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 #281 |
timmytorres
Posted on December 18, 2009 @ 10:18 pm
FS just read your post.I was writing at same time regarding the hitching.
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 #282 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 18, 2009 @ 10:18 pm
Timmy read the Guillam Belage link, I think you’ll like it. And I hate to say this, I know I sound like a smart arse, but one of the lads in the 15 minute video is an aul mate of mine, Andrew Schoffield. Good lad Drew. Said it was a riot making it and I believe the premier was a boss night out… Rafa got the ale in.
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 #283 |
timmytorres
Posted on December 18, 2009 @ 10:30 pm
Those pyramid schemes hit cork and probably the rest of the country in the middle of the boom in 2006.Everyone was at it.Obviously the ones who got in first cleaned up from it but when the shit hit the fan all hell broke loose.There was a meet in a hotel here in cork where loads were expecting to collect only to be given a sad explanation why their cash was “held up”.
There was murder my pal took a baseball bat and smashed up a jeep belong to the fella who got him to cough up.He went proper ape shit.He stood to collect 16,000 which is a nice wad of cash for an ordinary working man who initially put himself under pressure by borrowing the 2000 he invested in the scheme.
In another case a woman was taken form her home at gun point and lead to the local bank to take money out to pay the fella`s she had got into it.
It got really out of hand.A lot of familys and frienships were damaged over that.
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 #284 |
timmytorres
Posted on December 18, 2009 @ 10:41 pm
I read it today in the mirror FS.Seems he`s trying to get back in Rafa`s good books.Something tells me that once you break Rafa`s trust once thats it for you.
The only thing that annoyed me is when he said the media are not Anti-Rafa.
Stevie wonder can see that they are.
I`ll stick that on there now.I`m in the mood for a laugh.I seen a clip Neil Fitzmaurice looks the part as Rafa.
Actually FS do you mind if i E-mailed you i want to ask you about a fella in Liverpool but obviously i don`t want to be throwing names out in here?
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 #285 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 18, 2009 @ 10:45 pm
Behave. Why you asking. The address is there
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 #286 |
timmytorres
Posted on December 18, 2009 @ 11:29 pm
FS,what Airport in Romania? (there`s probably only one)
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 #287 |
Diggerno.10
Posted on December 18, 2009 @ 11:47 pm
No problem An Linn, will certainly ask him that, good questions. Fatty, what the heck does your one mean?! Will he know what it means?! Sun king, I’m a member of the club but I only get down about once a month or so for a game. I watch most of the games in me local with me 2 scouse mates! I dont know if there is a campaign against the yanks a la what happened with cohen but I’ll certainly enquire tomorrow for ya.
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 #288 |
timmytorres
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 12:03 am
Digger,ask Jan does he regret releasing the video of that goal?
I`m anxious to find out if he thought it was better off left in legend after revieling it?
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 #289 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 12:06 am
Oh he’ll know Digger but he won’t answer it… he’ll either laugh his head off or snot you.
So, best stick with… favourite kebab, doner or shish?
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 #290 |
timmytorres
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 12:10 am
I`ll say he`ll snot the sarcy git FS!!
Only messin Digger pal.
Alright lads here`s one for you…..
Sunderland did it in `79 Villa did it in `81 who did it in `80 ????
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 #291 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 12:15 am
Shit and fell back in it?
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 #293 |
An Linn
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 12:25 am
TT – is it something to do with players rather than teams ?
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 #294 |
timmytorres
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 12:31 am
I`m saying nothing An linn
Laughed me fuckin ass off at that FS!!
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 #295 |
bigbry
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 12:35 am
Now chaps, sorry been out all day and the Moores story still rumbles on,
Hindsight is 20/20 vision and my young son can point out all of the faults of Moores, Parry and Uncles Tom and George in retrospect. The facts are Moores was taken in and so were the fans, I certainly was, and if you chaps werent you were certainly in a minority, as I cant recall any dissenting voices after the deal was announced.
Can you honestly look in a mirror and say you knew what would happen, if you answer yes then I salute you as you are a wiser man than I will ever be.
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 #296 |
timmytorres
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 12:36 am
No googling!
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 #297 |
roarin-red
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 12:38 am
Just spent the last hour catching up on all the comments. I got a taster as to why I came to this blog in the first place. Some fantastic posts there and well broken down so a simple man like myself could understand them.
To be honest alot of the financial side goes over my head but I’m enjoying trying to grasp the situation as best as i can. The really sad thing is people that can talk about liverpools poor season for hours on end and not mention the owners once is frightening. It happened to me after the arsenal match and really pissed me off.
Anyway hoping again for the right result tomorrow. I’ve a feeling that pompey may have gave chelsea everything they got in mid week and are still dejected from the result.
COME ON YOU REDMEN!!
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 #298 |
An Linn
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 12:42 am
Ah Googling is cheating,
Ok so its players – didn’t Ricky Villa score a wonder goal in the 81 FA cup final, so all we need to find out is who played in the 1980 FA Cup and who scored
Anybody know
|
 #299 |
timmytorres
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 12:46 am
It might be teams…or it might not…
|
 #300 |
timmytorres
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 12:52 am
LB will know it.
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 #301 |
timmytorres
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 12:53 am
Name four Aussies to play in an FA cup final?
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 #302 |
An Linn
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 1:02 am
LB would know it – is that a hint ?
Was it a London team – thats as far as I get without looking it up
Cahill/Kewel/Bosnich – any off those right
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 #303 |
timmytorres
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 1:18 am
TWo right not bosnich(i don`t think,did he play for villa in 2000??If ya theres 5)
No cheating i said!!
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 #304 |
timmytorres
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 1:23 am
He didn`t..
|
 #305 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 1:28 am
Craig Johnstone ffs
Night Night
|
 #306 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 1:30 am
Why do sopme clubs have a triangular corner flag and others have a sqaure one?
|
 #307 |
timmytorres
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 1:37 am
1 more FS
Ah ye`ll never get it…Its Aussie Ardiles
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 #308 |
rome77
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 1:54 am
Timmy your first question 1980 is a bit like Streaming and 1979 was one of my favourites
Cahill ,Kewel,Viduca, and C Johnson would be a guess
Anyway wouldnt worry about conceding against Wigan our 2 CB just had a game of lets pretend to be Torres and had to chase back 90 yards to chase the goal kick.
Personally i reckon Parry’s guilt far outweigh’s Moores who at least looks sad for whats happened and something tells me he’s one of those people who conmen & bully’s instinctively target.
With Parry id check to see if my watch was still there after shaking hands with him.He reminds me of a Snake Tom & George probably saw the cons Parry was running and like the parasites they are wanted a bigger piece with the only objective been to scam as much as they can get away with.
And as for Van horseface i say neigh
YNWA
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 #309 |
rome77
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 2:02 am
Just realised i really should press refresh before posting
Aussie Ardilles indeed i see you like playing with words Timmy.
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 #310 |
An Linn
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 2:03 am
FS – Is that the one about the FA Cups
Neigh to Van Horseface – classic
|
 #311 |
red4life
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 2:44 am
One thing though bigbry… Given I have more then a few beers in me but Í wasnt the one that was selling the club. Moores should of had more hindsight then anybody. A couple of mineutes on goggle you have let him know more then anything. But im as thick as he was, i thought the yanks meant well, the spoke like they wanted to anyhow
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 #312 |
An Linn
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 2:53 am
Trevor Brooking ?
Thanks Rome – very clever
|
 #313 |
Bayo
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 6:45 am
Fat Scouser
Thanks for the link to Balague’s grovelling. I generally avoid reading those articles because they tend to attract the most moronic comments you can imagine. My curiousity, however, got the better of me. Just as I thought, some morons have crept out of their holes to spout their drivel.
|
 #314 |
roarin-red
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 9:37 am
Teams that have triangular flags have won the FA cup. I only know that by default, it was in this crazy 90′s film called twin town. The manor in which you find out sort of makes it stick with you.
|
 #315 |
KeithSA
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 10:35 am
Bigbry as red4 life said its not our duty to do the due diligence, yes most of us where happy to see the twats ride in on their donkeys and promise us snoogy doo, but Moors and Prick Harry had an army of lawyers and accountants to do the hard work and advise if they had a pot to piss in or where going to lump us along the same lines as their weetabix deals. If a few fans did Google after the fact and found all the skeletons, what the fuck where their lawyers and accountants doing, it almost grounds to sue for negligence unless Moors instructed them to go ahead regardless of what was found or put on the table. One has to assume the lawyers and accountants must also have been Liverpool fans so please don’t tell me they did not do their home work or tried to safe guard the club in every way possible. However it all boils down to Moors who accepts the terms despite being advised otherwise. If he is so upset and was advised wrongly I would take my professional team to the cleaners for not doing their job. Yes it is easy to criticize after the fact just ask the CBC with regards to Rafa, but the sale of the club is not about picking the team by a single person it’s a little more involved and complicated with an army of professionals advising and drawing up contracts. The whole deal stinks and I would love to know what really happened. Greed is normally the motivating factor in all fuck ups in my opinion and I have seen many a deal soured because of it and until somebody can prove it otherwise I will stick to that explanation.
Aussie Ardiles (great player) cracked me up; I bet the Aussies would like him in their midfield.
|
 #316 |
somnath07in
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 12:25 pm
@FS
I dont know why you abused me at #261. I am sure you dont want another round of war of words do you?
@Aitch
So basically its a no hope situation for us. I hope they are out asap.
Liverpool to win 2-1 today.
|
 #317 |
Val
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 12:59 pm
Team for today lads, Aquilani not even in the squad, don’t know if he picked up a knock but Rafa will get slated if we don’t get a win, also Dossena in the starting line up, over all good starting eleven and not a bad bench either! 3-1 to the reds, Torres hat trick!
Liverpool: Reina, Johnson, Insua, Agger, Carragher, Mascherano, Lucas, Kuyt, Dossena, Gerrard, Torres. Subs: Cavalieri, Aurelio, Benayoun, Babel, Ngog, Spearing, Skrtel.
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 #318 |
Lurgankop
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 1:40 pm
no time to catch up on the comments but just wanted to say, come-on the red men.
Interesting playing Dosser. Our bench could be very important today.
|
 #319 |
JackHill
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 2:25 pm
I hope you are righ Val-Pomopey have scored their one.
|
 #320 |
Lurgankop
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 2:27 pm
FUCK OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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 #321 |
SonOfAKhan
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 2:32 pm
Half time. Dont see how that is a straight red.
|
 #322 |
Bayo
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 2:36 pm
I can only hope that our boys show some balls and dig themselves out of this hole. It’s not over by a long shot.
|
 #323 |
timmytorres
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 2:38 pm
Time to shuffle the pack a little.We`re making it hard but they think they have it in the bag..
C`mon lads step up to the plate..
|
 #324 |
shane
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 2:38 pm
i’m frustrated, i’m angry
i have enough of ‘you’re not a true reds if you do not defend your manager or player’, whatever
i’m not at all interested in placing blind faith. i see what i see, i am a normal guy who supports liverpool. i feel what i feel, i say what i say. i am treating this as a club, not a cult/religion which a lot of you have done.
i dun live forever, i dun have forever to wait for rafa to produce the desired attitude within the team to prove that we’re genunine contenders
lets see what other excuses this fast becoming pro-rafa webbie ala rawk would be about to conjured up with
dun get me wrong, losing is absolutely part n parcel of life but it’s the bloody manner how we have lost. look at how uninterested some of our players are. motivation my arse, mr rafa.
do you honestly think we’ve been UNLUCKY? yes we missed chances, but hey every teams produce chances in any games. stop the selective sighting. and neglects e negative shits
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 #325 |
akka
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 2:53 pm
Hey shane u wank knob. Was it rafa giving masch a red?
|
 #326 |
michaelthomasmademecry
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 2:57 pm
I wasn’t aware the game was over yet Shane. What was the final score?
|
 #327 |
akka
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 3:00 pm
This ref is a joke. Johnson yellow for a bump
|
 #328 |
Lurgankop
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 3:24 pm
unbelievable…
|
 #329 |
akka
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 3:26 pm
Really liked the way dirk and lucas went about their game today.
Head down and no complaints.
|
 #330 |
shane
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 3:34 pm
michael, not sure if it was sarcasm but here’s the score for you, 2-0.
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 #331 |
Lurgankop
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 3:34 pm
get ready for the CBC!
|
 #332 |
Arthur G. Posis
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 3:39 pm
Clutching at straws there Akka – a new low today – the red card will serve as a convenient way to mask another poor performance up to that point – already 1 nil down and completely lacking in invention and creativity. Playing Dossena left wing??????? Ngog – not getting on that pitch AT ALL?? Its gonna get stormy in here. That was a really bad show. 8 points behind Villa (if they win today)
|
 #333 |
shane
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 3:40 pm
houllier-we’ve turned e corner
rafa-our season starts here
so our seasons gonna start after x’mas now?
yes, our squad have definitely improved since 5 years ago.
but instead of houllier, i tot e great rafa is supposed to be compared with someone of a great history? like say shankly.
let’s hope our season starts asap.
YNWA
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 #334 |
timmytorres
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 3:46 pm
Shane
Where the fuck were you all week when there was proper footy discussion going on in here.
Its amazing the way idiots like you come in right on the final whistle when we lose.
Go way and crawl back under that rock you came from.
I`ll be back in later.
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 #335 |
theredman
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 3:46 pm
Lurg my friend,
i hope i am not one of the CBC but buddy it’s hard to watch that and not be gob smacked,
what the fuck was Masch doing with a tackle like that he knew he was going straight through the guy, first 15mins i thought this was going to be a stroll but as of late the lad’s seem to disintegrate and i’d fuckin love to know why, i honestly cant get my head round it and this is not knee-jerk because lately i’m getting used to it but i will keep the faith as hard as it is to do at the moment.
Oh and Shane, fuck off from here there’s a good girl.
YNWA.
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 #336 |
shane
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 3:50 pm
taking a leaf out of rafa’s books of philosophy, akka?
magnifying whatever ‘positives’ u could see and ignoring e bigger picture?
do u honestly think we played well before e sending off? do you think lucas and kuyt did not contribute to any bits of our lack of ideas in the attacking third?
frankly, none of the two would get into any of the top six sides. all top sides have players of top flair on e flanks, not workhorses.
i admire kuyt for his workrate but may i leave that for another day.
and i am not at all surprised to see this headline – “Rafa Benitez: Europa League can be silver lining to Liverpool FC’s season”
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 #337 |
ldhawan
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 3:51 pm
I think Masch red card might actually be a crucial turning point. It means we will play the next few matches with only one holding midfielder. Hopefully more attacking and more goals.
Don’t think Masch and Lucas help the situation when it is goals that we need more than anything else. Things are much better when it’s Gerrard and and holder with two attackers up front.
As for the game, Portsmouth applied lots and lots of pressure and were definitely more up for this game. Kuyt works hard but his passing at times is so so bad. Johnson didn’t look good today. Carra looked slow. Torres frustrated. All in all, a bad bad day. That red card simply masks an all round poor performance.
Feeling more resignation that anger…
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 #338 |
shane
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 3:53 pm
theredman, sure i’d fuck off
i know in a place like this, no criticism is allowed. because no true reds are supposed to have any complains or negative opinions
and i know i would be lambasted for my opinions
it’s okay.
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 #339 |
Lurgankop
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 4:01 pm
theredman, I understand where you’re coming from but that was not a red card in my book. We played them off the park for 35 minutes but then it’s been the story of the season really.
The ref had a shocker (again) but I do agree that we lost the plot after they scored. This is a huge problem that only LFC/Rafa can solve. The rest we can do nothing about.
Yours sincerely
Mister fucked-off
Shane, stick your dick up your arse and go fuck yourself.
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 #340 |
Lurgankop
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 4:07 pm
redman, more importantly, I am glad to hear that you are getting over your health problems.
You had a pretty bad run there for 18 months, so lets hope you and the reds can improve from here-on in.
Oh and Shane if you actually posted when we won a game then maybe your opinion would be taken into account. So until then, do one!
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 #341 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 4:07 pm
This side shows no character and no fight in adversity. After the red card (which was the right decision in my opinion) the team just chucked in the towel.
Concede a goal or get a player sent off, do we show any bottle or great desire to get back or even win the game? Hell no. We bow our heads and go through the motions and accept yet another defeat.
I don’t understand why Dossena played. He has been a complete and utter failure for the club and needs to be sold asap. I don’t care how good anyone wants to tell me his attitude is, his performance as been poor 90% of the time and ordinary 10% of the time. Give me back Riise or Warnock any day.
2 holding midfield players against the bottom team in the division.
Another game where Aquilani gets no minutes.
No leadership seemingly on the pitch, or off it.
Internationals such as Johnson, Gerrard, Agger, Benayoun, Lucas made to look inferior to some Pompey players whom I have not heard of.
The headed miss from Agger was a disgrace. Why Torres didn’t shoot when through on goal I don’t know. Seems to want to beat 3 players every time before pulling the trigger.
Kuyt’s desperate form continues yet he plays in EVERY game no matter what.
This Liverpool side looks very ordinary and look capable of losing against anyone.
This league season is an absolute right off. Only difference this time is I won’t be looking forward to next season with any enthusiasm whatsoever.
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 #342 |
sula
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 4:13 pm
I wish i could break a bank and get 20mil compensation…!!!!
Positives from the match
Dossena finally playing
Glen Johnson recovered from the nightmares of the Arsenal match
Kuyt playing 90mins of the game
Lucas has developed into a midfield guru
and oh! ya,doesnt matter how much shit we play,4th place has already been guaranteed by the man himself,Rafa Benitez!
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 #343 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 4:14 pm
There are no positives when one of your best players is now banned for 4 matches through his own stupidity (he’s probably serious injured himself ala Paul Gascoigne 1991 FA Cup final) and we’ve lost to the worst team in the league.
I’ll say it again. We concede a goal or get a red card and might as well end the game early and award the victory to the other side.
Absolutely fucking gutless.
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 #344 |
guinnessdrinker
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 4:17 pm
we had played well before mashers sending off but hadnt one shot on target!!! ffs how can having no attemts at goal be seen as preforming well? chasing the game with 20 mins to go off goes our left back and on comes another left back. im no rafa basher or knee-jerker but that is insanity at any level of football.
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 #345 |
guinnessdrinker
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 4:20 pm
by the way spot on shane kyut and lucas would not get on the bench of any top six side which is why were not in the top six.
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 #346 |
shane
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 4:22 pm
lurgan, if you show me how that could be done, i’ll definitely do it
not interested in doing personal attacks or attacking fellow reds
i have in no way attacked another person for his different opinions, well everyone has and IS ENTITLED to his own.
if you can’t accept mine, support your arguments with logical facts and not via some lame attacks. cos’ that would only show me i’m wasting my time on some narrow-minded so-called true reds
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 #347 |
guinnessdrinker
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 4:30 pm
heres a fact weve won 4 out our last 17 matches 17!!! thats half a season of football and relegation form. id love rafa to pull it out of the bag and shove it down all the moaners throats but i think after five years any coach at any sport has said all they can and if after five years its not working its time for a change no?
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 #348 |
shane
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 4:34 pm
londonbarnes n guiness, i couldn’t agree more.
granted kuyt has scored goals on some occasions, but that should not mask the fact that he is not functioning to best effects for e team, on e flank.
more often than not, he has been a liability. his lack of creativity and flair has forced johnson to make more attacking runs and leaving spaces behind him. johnson now has to make do with his ‘frail defensively’ motto.
no offence but kuyt very often reminds me of heskey. someone whom i labeled as a defensive attacker.
onto e bigger picture, the overall attitude shown by the whole team for the past few months have been appalling.
correct me if i’m wrong, things tend to get from bad to worst after the half time team talk. i would supposed it should be the other way round. i do not want to point fingers but i guess half time team talk should serve to improve the morale of e team, isn’t it?
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 #349 |
sula
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 4:35 pm
@londonBarnes
i thought we had lowered our expectations,thats why am coming up with positives however meaningless they are..thats what the lads in here wanna hear!
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 #350 |
sula
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 4:40 pm
@shane
these lads are doing exactly what Rafa is telling them to do,he talks abt that in training and repeats that at half time! what explains the teams poor perfomance all the way to December?
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 #351 |
shane
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 4:51 pm
well sula, I hope he doesn’t tell the players the same things he says to the media
let’s see, murphy, bellamy and crouch have scored. all from e great britain and all share something in common.. sold by someone who, imo, is biased against whoever isn’t of latin nature.
it pains to look at what our youth academy could offer at this moment. i’m not seeing any signs of the next gerrards, owens, fowlers, thompsons, warnocks or even mellors, etc
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 #352 |
theredman
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 5:16 pm
What a pair of wankers,
Shane and Sula alias the Barbie girls, but Shane can you tell me what e great britain or e team on e flank is or what it means is it some sort of pidgin english or are you naturally fuckin thick in the grammar department.
Lutgan,Aitch and FS,
thank you for the kind words and am feeling great at the moment and if the red’s can get it together like i have you,me and the rest of the BOY’S in here will be a lot happier.
YNWA
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 #353 |
rome77
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 5:21 pm
A few questions
Q1 Who would play instead of Kuyt?
Q2 Was the first goal offside ?
Q3 How the f*ck was that a red ?
Q4 Where are S&S when we win ?
Q5 Who’d want to play for Liverpool crap owners and crap “supporters”
Q6 Why should Dossena be slated by some for getting a game when they cry about Babel’s confidence when he doesn’t get a game.
YNWA
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 #354 |
SonOfAKhan
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 5:23 pm
Awww..looks like some people are having a field day. Go on, straight or laced with as much sarcasm as possible.
I can see it now. Rafa’s talk is to blame, during trainings and halftimes, for all the poor performances until now. He made a mistake against the Mancs. He is here to make sure we lose matches and get relegated.
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 #355 |
SonOfAKhan
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 5:32 pm
At a time when the team needs the backing of the fans, they get this. Awesome, really. No attempt to understand the circumstances (not excuses) but to straight away condemn the manager and team after a loss.
I have never step on snow in my whole life, so my question to those who have played on that kind of pitch we played today, how bad is it? (yes, of course, yet another excuse that we like to conjure up).
A loss after a win. Still 3 points. Better than two straight draws I guess. Wished it were another 3 points but we did not win.
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 #356 |
Sambo
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 5:37 pm
does anyone know what’s wrong with aquilani? apparently he’s injured but i can’t find out anything about his injury anywhere. i just got back to england for chrimbo (i now live in nz). have i missed something? what happened to him?
fucked off. staying with parents who don’t have sky so had to listen to that shite on 5 live. all season i’ve been hanging onto the hope that aquilani will make some kind of difference. not expecting him to be the saviour and answer to everything, was just looking forward to watching a new star in the side. so where the fuck is he? we’re not creating chances, we’re not worrying defences, we’re not scaring anyone. i’ve been sayin this for ages so sorry to repeat meself, but lets get stevie back in midfield and look like a side with ideas again. lets get aquilani on the pitch and give him a chance to pay back some of that 20 million. lets give torres the support of a second striker (if the yanks give rafa the money).
i’m not calling for rafa’s head but i do want answers. it’s not his fault we’ve got no money and a thread bare squad, but they’re all fit now and it is his responsibility to make changes when they’re needed and get the best out of the players he’s got.
on the bright side, listening to scum vs fulham at the moment. 3-0. eases the pain a little.
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 #357 |
SonOfAKhan
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 5:39 pm
Fark! My blog is again being bombarded by those who have been so conveniently quiet after the midweek win. Looks like it is going to be another long days before Christmas.
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 #358 |
Dizzy
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 5:39 pm
to all the sulas and shanes and other doom-n-gloom merchants.. i ask this …
Why are u scared of losing ??
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 #359 |
Dizzy
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 5:40 pm
And … If masch is now out for 4 games, does that gives aqualani the chance to get 4 games on the trot ???
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 #360 |
Dizzy
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 5:42 pm
And some positive of the otherwise gloomy day, Manures losing 3-0 to fulham …
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 #361 |
rome77
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 5:46 pm
Shane you ask how Rafa compares to Shanks id have thought a true red like yourself would know the answer to that.7 years without winning anything and a win ratio inferior to Rafa’s. But dont let facts get in the way of a good old rant which started before the game was even finished.
Guinessdrinker While your drinking you Guiness think about the 7 years Whiskeybreath couldnt win the league and even then it took a sh*t load of money like it has for every PL winners to buy the title.
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 #362 |
SonOfAKhan
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 5:47 pm
Fergie Rudolph, off with his head!
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 #363 |
satyromaniaman
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 5:48 pm
COol… Now he stage is really and truly set… for real this time… has to start at xmas season so that every one can remember the xmas season the reds lit up the league.
The greatest xmas most red league ever!!! The season the reds rose from the dead and won the premier league with just 4 wins before xmas…
GO GO GO Yayyyy go liverpool
But let’s play with 3 defenders and width and more creative attacking players. What more have we got to lose? c’mon… we have to attack the shit out of these people. Even man scum played with 3 defenders today… Man scum!!! 3 defenders!! 2 midfielders turned into defenders and one rookie!!! and we dun have the balls to play with 3 defenders??? We cant possibly be any worse than man scum’s “3 defenders”!!!!
REina
Degen Carra Insua
Johnson Aquilani Stevie G Riera
Benny Torres ngog
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 #364 |
theredman
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 5:52 pm
Yes Dizzy would’nt you know it, we get beat by arse then they draw the next game, then we win against wigan and then get beat by fuckin Pompey while the mancs are getting twatted by fulham.
Only LFC mate only LFC, but i’m keeping the faith although i know my comments dont show it.
YNWA.
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 #365 |
quietRed
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 5:53 pm
This has been such a hard year. Liverpool is like a marriage, and right now, things are on the rocks. The American owners make it impossible to improve, but it’s not their fault we spent 40 million on two players (one of whom seems incapable of ever staying fit) when we needed to spend it on 5 good players who can help us all over the pitch. But it’s not Rafa’s fault half our team plays with no heart. Sure, he can motivate them for a bit, but they need to care from their hearts.
I know it’s hard to be angry at our players and manager, but what choice to we have? Why are so many players obviously not giving their all? That’s such a slap in the face to all of us who live and die with the team. I just feel so… abandoned by this squad. They don’t seem to care about us at all.
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 #366 |
rome77
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 5:54 pm
Shane
“IMO, i would take aston villa’s flanking pair any time. downing & ashley young”
Wake up dreamer what would you buy and pay their wages with chocolate buttons.
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 #367 |
Arthur G. Posis
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 5:56 pm
anyone doubting the red? come on guys – dont be blind! I’m an out and out Liverpool fan but even i knew that was a reckless, dangerous and fucking downright stupid tackle by mascherano. why on earth did he need to do that? gave us a fuckin mountain to climb. Completely disillusioned – may sound like a cliché but really seems Rafa has lost the dressing room. No fight left. body language of Gerrard, Torres and Carragher all wrong. If it’s true that they dont belive he is the right man anymore – than Rafa should do the honourable thing and walk away. I’m sorry but this team is much much better than 7 league defeats – and that was pretty much our strongest team..ah fuck it!
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 #368 |
sula
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 5:57 pm
@Dizzy
the likes me are not scared of losing,infact i expect LFC under stubborn Rafa to lose most of the times…tell me ur scared of losing! with all the games we’ve lost this season its a shame that u havent yet gotten to losing
U should hang ur head in shame too for taking a Manchester united loss as a positive! liverpool needed a win more than anything else,what abt Villa and Spurs winning? is that a postive too?
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 #369 |
Dizzy
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 5:57 pm
The best moment of teh day …
All the Glory-Hunters (read manure fans) who were just couple of hours ago bombarding my sms inbox wid “HAHAHA POMPPEEEEYYYY” messages disappeared like a Fart in the wind
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 #370 |
SonOfAKhan
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 6:01 pm
Even man scum played with 3 defenders today… Man scum!!! 3 defenders!! …play with 3 defenders??? … scum’s “3 defenders”!!!!
Lost 0-3
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 #371 |
KeithSA
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 6:02 pm
Oh boy I see we have more additions to the CBC, it seems these fans are only interested in commentating when we loose. That’s fine but at least analyse why we lost. The same two holding midfielders as we played last year when we scored the most in the Prem. We have a half fit team, Gerrard looks out of sorts still and Johnson had another mare and is not fit, unfortunately the chances that we made, Agger and Torres we did not take and they scored from two impossible angles that would have been easier to miss than score, from two mistakes from our defence yet again. We just cannot get a break right know and Masch was stupid to lunge in, but still harsh to get a straight red. We started of well enough but the goal and red threw us completely and you could see the heads drop and the body language go here we go again. We did come back in the second half and should have equalised before that with Agger and could have actually won it with 10 men but it just won’t go for us at the moment. How any of this is down to Rafa beats me, but all the 50/50 decisions are going against us at the moment and this season is turning into shit, I will be happy with a top 4 finish (I strongly believe we will still make it) and hopefully a cup. The pitch was also a great leveller.
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 #372 |
Dizzy
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 6:04 pm
Oh sula sula sula ….
I am sooooo not scared of losing.. cos i dun come here knee-jerking at the slightest hint of a negative result for us … I dun come here and start demanding Rafa’s head even wen i know the circumstances he is managing in …
Where as , you and ur bunch of Sooper Doooper low IQ friends just come in here and start “Our team is Shite” talk …
If u r a TRUE liverpool fan, u shud not be falling this low by slating the team u SUPPORT … Maybe u guys have a different definition of being a SUPPORTER …
For me it is, To stand by my team and MANAGER even if they are bottom-placed and looking into the eyes of relegation!!!!
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 #373 |
rome77
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 6:04 pm
Saty Playing Insua&Johnson is like playing 3 defenders as 1 of them is always attacking down the wings or adding width as you put it. But that increases the chance of a sideways pass out to the wing and we know our “supporters” dont like that.
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 #374 |
Arthur G. Posis
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 6:20 pm
Keith SA – I comment in good and bad times. How this is down to Rafa? Ah playing Dossena in a left wing position? can someone explain that to me?
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 #375 |
Dizzy
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 6:32 pm
And this is the latest from Satan Collymore ..
“Gillet& Hicks & Rafa to go now.Kenny in to steady the ship.Mourinho or Hiddink in the summer.Investors DO want to buy Liverpool!”
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 #376 |
satyromaniaman
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 6:54 pm
#371
The point is … we HAVE 3 defenders but do not have the balls to play them. They lost becos they played players who weren’t defenders and one who is a rookie. How much far better will Carra fair in comparison to Carrick, Insua to De Laet and Degen to who was it… Fletcher?
Yet we play Dossena in the wings… but not Johnson?
Sorry to say but no matter how I admire Monster’s ball winning skills, he does stupid things occasionally. This was one of them. Dun deserve a red? The ref probably saw him going for the guy’s throat for god’s sake….in football? Some things are not supposed to be in the game. He is an awfully important player, superb, but I cannot fail to see what he did.
I am not looking for positives … I believe we have it in us to win the god damn league… 4th placing just doesnt cut it. This will BE our season. We are winning the league.
Go GO GO… only wins from now on.
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 #377 |
satyromaniaman
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 7:06 pm
#374 yeah..true… My argument is that…
when Johnson goes up in the current set up… guess who has to be tracking back? Kuyt? And when Insua goes up?… Dossena? DO they have the pace? I am inclined to think not…
However shud we play w Degen, Johnson has the pace to cover… and he is a bit suspect at defending by some quarters. While with Insua, Riera will have to cover.. a bit suspect but still he has shown some ball winning skills. PLus we were supposed to have Masch on standby to chase some of these passes away…
Oh well… the manager knows best… as always…
I dream of the glory of winning the league… it’s true.. i can feel it… carra going wild with celebrations….wooohoooo
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 #378 |
Dizzy
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 7:30 pm
Mark hughes to be sacked ….
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 #379 |
roarin-red
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 7:49 pm
mark hughes has been sacked…….
Now with him outta the picture the spotlight will firmly be on rafa next. I no it parshley was already but we’re talking full beam now.
To be honest for the first time I’m actually worried we could lose a manager during a season. Also a manager of Rafa calibre to boot. we really are in a monster shit storm here.
Looking at the match ok the ref had a fucking stinker(Torres being kicked from pillar to post) but he did not prevent us from having only TWO shots on target. Bottom club portsmouth come at us all guns blazing why? because we give teams like this all the belief in the world some really sloppy passing,and some even ropery defending. We let them play one touch football round us and were at times being walked through in the middle.
I’m a rafa fan an its gonna take alot to make me go the other way but today even before the match i would have liked to have seen 4-4-2 torres and n’gog up front and benny on the wing. I feel with a more attacking formation like that and we would have atleast got more chances.
Anyway we’ve got to stuggle on,even the mancs gettin HAMMERERD hasn’t really cheered me up.
YNWA
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 #380 |
Dizzy
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 8:06 pm
BTW … wats happening to the penalty kick takers since last two weeks ???
Geovani missing one today at emirates …
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 #381 |
Aitch
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 8:40 pm
What a monumental bunch of Dickheads we are attracting to the club!
“When you walk through a storm
hold your head up high…”
I won’t even continue quoting the rest or the words… you clearly have ZERO understanding of what it means to be a Liverpool Supporter!
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 #382 |
KeithSA
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 9:05 pm
Arthur I cannot remember ever classifying you as a CBC, yes you tend to lean towards the negative aspects but knee jerk reaction would be a stretch. As for playing Dossena on the left, here is a news flash, it did not loose us the game. Reira out injured, Babel out injured and to be honest Benny looked tired the last game as does Kuyt for most games. We started out brightly enough, dominating and creating a few half chances. The team set-up and formation looked fine. Please guys you have to take into account we are playing with half fit players and players coming back form injury. Does anybody here think Gerrard and Torres are firing on all cylinders? Can anybody remember seeing Gerrard fly into a tackle like he normally does? Johnson, another one who is half fit (Degen and Kelly injured or coming back from injury as well and we all know what happened when we played Darby) made a howler, yet again and gave them a chance, a chance they took from a difficult angle. That was Johnson goine for the rest of the game as he made mistake after mistake. Our confidence is brittle or non existent because of the season we are having. It threw us and to make matters worse Masch had a moment of madness (yes harsh but still stupid) and got sent off, another knock to our fragile confidence. The game got niggly, we started to argue about decision that where going against us, lost concentration and more disturbing for a long period it looked like we gave up for a while. We where disjointed disorganized and our passing fell apart. Despite all that we had a superb chance to equalize, in fact it would have been easier to score than to miss but true to our season so far we missed. Again we attacked in the second half and a fit and firing Torres would have scored instead of doing an Arsenal impersonation by trying to walk it into the net. There where also plenty of time during the second half that if the final ball or the pass was made somebody would have been in on goal. It just did not happen, the iced pitch made it difficult to pass and play, another shit day at the office, all to familiar this season. They scored another sucker punch of a goal from another mistake this time by Carra. So what do our fans do… blame Rafa for playing Dossena and for playing two holding midfielders. The same formation that helped us score the most amount of goals last season. That Gerrard and Torres are not firing has no bearing its Rafa’s fault for playing the wrong formation, go figure.
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 #383 |
guinnessdrinker
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 9:08 pm
rome77 all this 7 years this 7 years that what im seeing is exactly what happened under houllier and its got fuck all to do with drinking guinness and everthing to do with whats happening on the pitch which is not acceptble at this club. we all love the club im not bashing anyone but come on 4 wins in 17 games has to tell you something either hes lost the dressing room or hes taking us as far as he can. id love if you can turn around in two months when were back in the hunt and you say there you go guinness ya drunker twat i told ya so. but it aint gonna happen my man.
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 #384 |
gazmaninaus
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 9:13 pm
To the lads claiming some of us have blind faith in Rafa, which is bordering on religious/cult status. What a crock of shit, it’s called support, it’s about not throwing the towel in when everything looks bleak. It’s about forgetting whats just happened and plan what’s needed to fix the future. It’s about forgetting the negatives and concentrating on only positive aspects.
.
I was born a Red win, lose or draw, now it’s my job to help the team. Whether I agree with Mr B’s decisions or plans is irrelevant when the club is going through a patch like this.
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 #385 |
KeithSA
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 9:26 pm
Here is another news flash for all, you morons who want Maureen to take over, he knows the problems and lack of finance available and has already said no, as will most managers with half a brain. Who would want to come to a club and put their reputation on the line for a club whose fans expect you to win on a 16 mill a year budget when your rivals have hundreds of millions to spend, and then call for your head when 1.5 mill players and free transfers don’t make it happen for you? Lets not forget the strength in depth this whopping 16 mill affords you when we a few injuries, we should more than cope with 11 first team members out with all the 30 mill (Zimbabwe dollars) replacements lining up on the bench. Yes a zero net spend over the last two seasons has managers clambering to take over, oh but we did have a budget I can here the CBC chorus chirp or bleat would be better. Indeed but that has to go on wage increases least we loose what we already have, another rich endorsement of how attractive the managerial post is. Will it get better? Like fuck unless some idiot pays 124 mill pound for 10 percent when our custodians of the Liverpool way only paid 270 odd for 100 percent. Great bargain, while you watch weetabix THicks and insolvent gutless Gillette asset strip Liverpool in order to pay for the club and their life style. What do our erstwhile fans do… sack Rafa. Go figure maybe I am too old to understand this complicated game called football. As the Darlings said “He who has the most money wins right?”
When you walk through a storm…sack the manager because he is the only one holding the life line….. go figure.
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 #386 |
akka
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 9:37 pm
What a bunch of wankers in here.
One said something like (earlier post) “we shouldn’t think united loss is a positive because we lost”
Fair enough, but you clowns also don’t come in here or make comments when WE WIN!.
So I say, piss off and don’t come back.
I was frustrated today too. They scored a freak goal (ball shot through a hole the width of a beez dick), plus the straight red.
You could see lads being frustrated by decisions.
I love some suggestions in here about why we subbed insua for fabio, or why ngog didn’t play.
To that I say, stop playing ur fucking playstation games, you can’t play two strikers with ten men.
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 #387 |
KeithSA
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 9:45 pm
Here is another news flash for all the so called expert that can see patterns within patterns. What gives Liverpool the right to win titles? Spurs, New castle (yes the mighty barcodes), Sunderland, Man City, Portsmith and Aston Villa have all out spent us in the market by a considerable margin, why are they not wining titles don’t their fans have a right to demand the title as well. ManU and Chelsea are wining titles and they are outspending us so that’s right, please tell me why we should be beating them from an economic point of view, money buys you better and more players is how I think it works unless players want to play for a certain manager or club. Wait a minute we finished above all but ManU last season on zero net spend for the year… still sack Rafa it was a fluke, record points haul… fluke, most goals….fluke. CL and FA cup while rebuilding…. Fluke he has taken us as far as he can go, the players don’t believe in him, he should be able to win even if the entire team is on crutches.
We really have classy fans real salt of the earth the type you would want in the trenches when the going gets tough. Makes me proud.
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 #388 |
guinnessdrinker
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 9:47 pm
why not play another striker your already loosing with 20mins to go??
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 #389 |
Aitch
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 9:50 pm
…and gaz… its about forming a reasonable analysis of the situation, as KeithSA just did.
Houllier never had a single season to contend with the sort of injuries and out of form players Rafa is contending with this season… so such comparisons are assinine!
What we are seeing right now, is no mystery.
YES, we have our “first choice 11″ back ready for selection again, but they are only performing at about 70% of their capability…
…NOT… because they couldn’t be arsed…
…NOT… because they don’t believe in/want to play for Rafa…
… but because they are
A. not fully fit…
B. losing belief in themselves…
C. losing belief in their teammates…
D. playing full of anxiety…
E. trying too hard and doing all the wrong things.
Portsmouth might not be a “top side” but you can’t just ignore the fact that they are all playing for a new manager and trying to impress, and the conditions and our form/confidence, made it the perfect time for them to play us.
If you don’t understand that, then you quite simply have no experience playing the game, coaching the game, or even much experience watching the game!
Most lads in here, have been coming in here for a long time. We know where they stand and by and large, why they take that stand… by the history of their posts.
To come in here and start throwing your weight around, about how you are “entitled” to your “opinion”, after 2 or 3 posts, or even 2 or 3 months of posts for that matter, is not just disrespectful, its spitting in everyone’s face… (particularly Gerry’s, who puts in a lot of effort, creating a place where we can have reasonable thought out discussion and debate.)
In short… your opinions are not wanted here… not because they are diametrically opposed to most in here, but simply coz they are largely moronic and unsubstantiated.
There are plenty of places where such “opinion” is welcomed… even embraced… even lauded… please feel free to GO THERE and stop fucking Kopblog up for the rest of us.
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 #390 |
theredman
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 10:26 pm
Aitch,
i think you got the wrong guy there (gaz),
i have’nt read anything disparaging from him.
But a good post mate, i feel a bit ashamed of my own little tirade but i have calmed down now and just digested what you have written(390) and basically your right but just cant get my head round the way they just seem to collapse when there is a bit of adversity i mean can you see these boy’s coming from 3-0 down at half time in C/L final, i cant yet they still have the same manager and the same main piston for the engine room in Gerrard.
So i ask you this buddy why (c) are they losing belief in themselves as that to me is the ROOT problem.
YNWA.
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 #391 |
jim
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 10:40 pm
well said aitch
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 #392 |
An Linn
Posted on December 19, 2009 @ 11:05 pm
I think its time for the players to stand up and be counted. Backs up against the wall stuff. We as supporters could do the same.
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 #393 |
Aitch
Posted on December 20, 2009 @ 1:14 am
Just to clarify, the “and gaz” was meant as an addition to what he said… not a poke at something he’d said.
2nd… just read this qcomment from a Scum fan on the BBC match report of the Fulham win..
“This season is virtually a write off as far as the league is concerned and we’re not even at Christmas – Ferguson has got a lot of explaining to do… ”
…and they are only 3 points off the top and have just won 3 PL titles in a row!!!!
If it wasn’t so completely, utterly and majestically retarded, it might be sorta funny!
Seriously… mental patients are reading that shite and thinking… “are you fuckin nuts?”
I have absolutely NO time for such sniveling little gobshites, no matter who they profess to follow.
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 #394 |
Aitch
Posted on December 20, 2009 @ 1:23 am
now… theredman…
to answer your question… I addressed this at the end of the last blog … a rather unfortunately titled “Reds Getting Back on Track” (sorry Ged, but in your defense, at the time, I thought so too!) …at post #402.
… but here it is again…
You really do have to love it when people suggest Rafa has “blind faith” in players who they then claim “are exceeding their ability with their performances”…
…yet the slew of TOP players who are under-performing, well below their abilities, are doing so becuase of Rafa’s poor man-management skills.
I have to wonder sometimes if some people in here have actually ever played the game without a fuckin game controller in their hands?
There simply is no easy answer to getting us out of our current situation.
If you’ve never played on a competitive team, no matter what the level, and found yourself in a similar situation to the one that LFC is now dealing with, then you simply will not fully understand our current predicament.
And so, I ask you all to take a deep breath.
What I can tell you… unequivocally… is that when you are playing through the pain barrier, or when returning from injury… your game, no matter how hard you try, or sometimes in spite of how hard you try, just isn’t up to snuff!
What I can tell you… from personal experience … is that when you are on a team that has lost a few key players… when decisions start to go against you (whether in the middle of the park, or pens/offsides at either end)… when you concede crazy/flukey/bizarre goals (be they OGs, deflections off divets or beachballs)… when you get a few bad results because of all this… your heads don’t just drop…
…you ask yourself “what do we have to do?”
… then pretty soon, you are starting to ask “what do I have to do?”
… then you start looking around at your teamamates to figure out who the weak link is?
… then pretty soon, who the weak linkS are?
… and these can be your mates. Lads you get along with, lads you like playing with.
Its a quicksand trap… and the more you struggle the deeper you sink.
You have to stop moving and take a breath… but you’re still sinking.
Then you have to think, analyze your situation, but you’re still sinking.
Then you have to slowly, cautiously, methodically try to pull yourself out of the trap, sometimes even allowing yourself to slip deeper into the mire, so you can make your next move, slowly and deliberately, with calcualated movements… all while still sinking into the shit!
…or… we could just fuckin sack Rafa coz its all his fault…
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 #395 |
Aitch
Posted on December 20, 2009 @ 1:46 am
Its a cliche rtheredman, but its also true…
…Class is permanent… but form is ever so fleetingly temporary!
I always have a little chuckle to myself when I hear people predicting scores prior to a game.
Our net has had more balls in it this season than Jenna Jameson in a gangbang video! … yet people still come up with “I fancy a comfortable 2-0″ or “I predict 3-0.”
Really… on what fuckin basis are you making such predictions??
These players had high hopes for their season.
They’ve been battered and bruised and are both physically and mentaly shaken right now.
We are gonna need a bunch of scrappy, nervy, 2-1 skin-of-the-teeth wins, before we can think of a 1-0, let alone mounting a few 3-1 or 4-1 or 2-0 wins.
They are not gonna start playing free-flowing footy and winning 6-0 anytime soon… and a new manager isn’t gonna change that! (not at this point anyway.)
There is a time for such decisions… we are hell and away from that time!
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 #396 |
Kook
Posted on December 20, 2009 @ 1:50 am
This is my first post – anywhere actually – but I have been reading this site for some time.
Hugely disappointing result today – when Rafa said 4th place, I thought he’s seen the problem, and when he sees it he normally solves it quickly.
That goal Wigan got is the bad one – for me. Even though it didn’t cost points, we finally had the 2 goal cushion. Hard to get at this level.
It must be bloody hard for attackers in the premiership going out thinking they have to get 2 goals, at least, to be safe. And the defenders must have it in the back of their minds that if only the attack did its job they would not be under so much pressure to be perfect.
Each bit affects the other.
Carragher’s 600th game today, and he must have played in – how many? – almost a third, maybe more, clean sheet games – and yet at the moment like the whole team playing as if he’s never had a clean sheet in his life.
Pepe – best goalie in the league – and yet everything hit goes past him. I bet other managers are saying have a go in their team talks.
And every player moving a bit closer to another player, just a couple of yards, to make sure of the pass, except they take a split-second longer to make the pass, and it leaves someone on the other side of the pitch isolated.
Everthing becomes congested, slow, and hesitant (which actually sounds like me on the pull now I read it again).
I’m glad I’m not a manager, but I’m glad we’ve got one.
Anyway, Jamie Carragher 600 games. Wish I could say I’d spotted his greatness early – but no, if Rafa had sold him I would have been none the wiser. I thought he was a good utility player.
I don’t care what it is, I want to see him with a trophy in his hand this season.
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 #397 |
rome77
Posted on December 20, 2009 @ 2:03 am
Guinessdrinker I was referring to your comment 347
” i think after five years any coach at any sport has said all they can and if after five years its not working its time for a change no? ” which is a very short sighted view IMO
ps Wasnt calling you a drunk, myself i drink Carlsberg and watch a lot of games whilst doing so.
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 #398 |
ykleong
Posted on December 20, 2009 @ 2:06 am
abosultely gutted. i think the first 11 pick was spot on except for dosser. thot that benny could give a little bit more flair. clearly the body language of the players were all wrong. pompey is having more problems that us but the spirit they showed were amazing. imagine playing with the possibility of not being paid and future in doubt but still put in 110%. credit to them. yes, we need to shackle off the confidence issue and a couple of scrappy wins back-to-back will sort that out…u can see the frustration of torres as he tried to do all things by himself and risking more injury…this is a clear evidence that he hasn’t got the confidence of the team mates. gerrard was below him normal self and not commanding at all in that game. carra had a a couple of nervy moments but my MOTM. johnson still lacks the confidence and the worst performance of the night i think is kuyt. definitely need some rest. benny can certainly cover the right wing and hope aquilani is back for the next game to sit alongside lucas. aurelio back for the left wing with insua behind would give a balance.
at this stage it is definitely the players themselves that need to turn things around on the pitch. rafa has done enough in his ability with the circumstance at hand.
c’mon u redmen……
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 #399 |
Kiwi_Mark_LFC
Posted on December 20, 2009 @ 3:08 am
Fuck me – the morons are back in force and greater numbers than before…
The worlds greatest mother fucking moron Sula is back spouting his usual uninformed, unfounded, illogical crap…fuck me – I have never meet a more brain dead idiot in my life…Sula – you dont have the brain power for an opinion – so FUCK OFF NOW and go and support chelsea you cowardly gutless back stabbing faggotty arsed little toe rag…you are worthless…and the rest of you morons can fuck off with him…
If you dont like what we have to say – go to the Traitor Jamie Wankers site where you can all sit around betraying Liverpool together…
You lot digust me…you are dishonourable, dishonest, moronic, arrogant, gutless, hypocritical, cowardly, traitorous scum of the highest order…
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 #400 |
rome77
Posted on December 20, 2009 @ 3:36 am
“Shankly laid the foundations, Paisley built the house, now Rafa’s doing the garden”.
Trouble is while Rafa was digging in the garden he noticed the foundations had been eroded and was in need of repair. While walking through the house he noted a lot of the original fixture&fittings had been replaced by MDF. So Rafa the builder goes to the owner and says “its going to cost a lot to restore the house but it’ll be worth it”
The owner cant really afford to do the house up and as he’s a rich kid whose never had to think about getting a business loan , he decided to sell.
The new owners said they’d pay for original fitting and a extension so Rafa sets about restoring the doors and windows, then he gets to work repairing the foundations and laying new ones for the extension.Then one day he comes to work to find the owners have been getting cheaper quotes from a cowboy builder,he finds a pile of letters from dept-recovery companies, work stops on the extension,and some of the fittings disappear.
Sound familiar
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 #401 |
rome77
Posted on December 20, 2009 @ 3:54 am
PS Like any good builder he could always go build a Villa in Spain.
But he chooses to stay and finish the job because he thinks the owners will sell to a more appreciating owner,who will give him the funding.
YNWA
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 #402 |
Gerry
Posted on December 20, 2009 @ 5:14 am
I’ve been on the piss most of the day and I’m feeling pretty rough at the moment. I reckon I’m going to sleep for about 12 hours but before I hit the sack I thought I’d have a quick scan through the latest comments, as after our piss-poor result today/yesterday I figured a few ambulance-chasers might crawl out from under their stones to spout their usual rubbish.
So in my valiant efforts to keep Kopblog a fuckhead free-zone, I’ve just banned two people who’s usernames begin with S and I’ll let you figure out who they are. I’m sure we’re all feeling pissed off enough at the moment without having to read anymore of that shite.
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 #403 |
somnath07in
Posted on December 20, 2009 @ 5:20 am
Well.. its difficult to post a comment which will be correct by all means at this stage.
I want to say that we were yet again unlucky. Before that goal from Portsmouth, they didnt have
a single shot on goal. Bel Hadj scored his first goal after a long duration. Portsmouth,who are
finding it hard to score goals(Thats the primary reason for they being at the bottom of the table.They have actually conceded less goals than some other teams)managed to score 2 yesterday.
Loosing the match probably was injustice to the way we played. The red card given to Mascherano..i am not too sure whether that was not a serious offense.It looked dangerous to me.
I dont want to criticize Rafa here but why starting Dossena? Thats beyond me. I dont know what has happened to Aqua. The pundits here in Asia were telling that it seems he is actually not physically strong enough to play in the premier league.
One good thing about yesterday was that ManUtd lost 0-3 with 11 men on the pitch !!!
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 #404 |
Gerry
Posted on December 20, 2009 @ 5:25 am
Oh shit, one more thing I almost forgot. I know of two spare tickets that are available at face value for our Boxing Day game against Wolves. If anyone is interested let me know as soon as possible.
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 #405 |
Gerry
Posted on December 20, 2009 @ 5:33 am
Somnath – I believe Aquaman picked up a calf injury/strain in the Wigan game.
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 #406 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 20, 2009 @ 10:23 am
I really can’t be arsed reading all the comments. I already know exactly who will be standing firm, who will be starting to wobble, who will be calling for Rafa’s head, and most disgustingly of all who will be gloating over this.
I see the name’s have reappeared. Where are they when things go right?
Portsmouth is about an hour or so away from me by car. Yesterday it took me about 4 hours to get there and the same coming back. It took my mates far longer to get here from Liverpool I spent 200 quid on the trip. God only knows what they spent. I lost my best day of the year, the last Saturday before Christmas, and all the takings… which honestly make up the majority of the money that gets me through the rough months of Januaray and Febuary. A few weeks back, I lost 4 days of me life and the best part of a grand by going to Hungary, even though I knew we was out of the competition anyway. And I’ve already spent 450 quid on a flight to Bucharest and a hotel there, and now they’ve moved the fucking game to another city hundreds of miles away.
Do I blame Rafa Benitez for any of this, do I fuck. And I would do it all again anyway. I have done the same thing since the 60′s and I will keep doing it while my health and benefits stand up. I’m not playing the uberfan card. I’m no different than thousands of others and this is what we do.
But I would like an explanation from fellas who earn hundreds of thousands of pounds a week off the likes of me.
Fucking gutless and I’m really getting tired of it.
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 #407 |
pshenava
Posted on December 20, 2009 @ 11:12 am
I am watching this space for many years now. This is my first comment. I felt so despondent watching yesterday’s game but I am not that qualified to tell anyone where we are going wrong. Its just depressing times. I have been going through a lot on my personal front lately. I have a sneaky suspicion that liverpool’s luck is tied with mine, wish it was true as I was told my luck will turn around in Jan. I am keeping my fingers crossed for liverpool as well.
YNWA
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 #408 |
Arman23
Posted on December 20, 2009 @ 12:27 pm
Surely we are allowed to post negative comments about our team and not be banned from the site after that result. There are not many positives to write when our team loses to a team on the bottom of the ladder. We cant keep pretending that everything is ok when it clearly isn’t.
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 #409 |
ignorant_red
Posted on December 20, 2009 @ 12:28 pm
i fully agree with rome’s explanation of what Rafa is actually doing. Added to this fact that For too long he was being undermined by Parry, and also the lack of funds to buy his first choice players.This rebuilding that Rafa is doing will take time but is crucial for the long term success for our club. Some of you might be saying we are running out of time, but i ask you based on what are you saying this? The movie “2012″? The “learned” ones at sky? Rome was not built in a day, a week or even 5 years.
As for last nights game, it hurts too see us loose like that,but i remember that this is basically the same team that snatched victory from the jaws of defeat a few times last season.We even did that against bolton this season.We just need to find that hunger to win, that fire to fight back and not accept defeat. Maybe we need to start shooting from outside the box once in a while, this will make the opponnent defenders try to close us down fast the next time, this will leave space open to be exploited.
When faced with an obstacle we have to face it and find a way around it, not cry over it.Rafa is finding a way to fix this, as he always does. Like Fat Scouser and knight, we need to get behind the team and support them… discard all this negative thoughts, it does not bring any good to anyone. Postive thoughts bring positive results.
if you say our players are gut-less… what about the supporters? read some of the comments.
- Storm Walker
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 #410 |
KeithSA
Posted on December 20, 2009 @ 12:34 pm
If you think the comments are bad here you just need to read a few from other sites. I did not realise that there where so many pig shit ignorant fans in the world and this coming from the so called best and most knowledgeable fans in the world. I am so tired of the utter nonsense I can just imagine what Rafa and the lads feel. The word support in supporters seems to be lost on these morons. Rafa has turned down (three times by all accounts) approaches from Real Madrid. There is a self destruct button in me that says I hope he takes it and we free fall down the table, get relegated as all the main players leave or are sold in a panic by the twats to cover their debts before they bail out. There are only two things to blame for our predicament, injuries and our short-sighted owners who, with a bit of extra money thrown Rafa’s way could have averted this disastrous start to the season.
Do I think it is over? Not by a long shot, this is still a good team, easily capable of finishing in the top four, as they proved last year when we finished second on a record points haul. Yes we need them fully fit and firing and to get that we need a couple of easy games that we get of to a flyer and go ahead early so the confidence that is evidently so very brittle at the moment can be built up. As supporters it is our job to get behind the team and lift them in their difficulties and darkest hour, build them up not tear them down and strip the last bits of confidence that they so desperately need away. People asked how we came back from 3-0 down in Istanbul? Well firstly the support their did not give up on the team, they sang and lifted them, that was the catalyst that inspired the comeback of all times. Do any one of you think that if the support booed them back onto the field we would have won… no I don’t think so. We have no funds to compete at the same level with teams in the top 8 let alone top four, we have shite owners that are ripping the ring and guts out of our great club. We have a manger that is fighting tooth and nail for us and the club that he loves so much he has turned down better and more comfortable jobs so as not to let us down. Don’t you think the least we can do is to pay him and the team back in kind and support them in their quest to get things right, not compound the problem with ill thought out criticism and moronic comments, that can only drag us down even further.
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 #411 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 20, 2009 @ 12:43 pm
409… The thing is though mate, that was a gutless performance.
And it doesn’t matter what side of the Rafa fence you sit on. Clearly I’m fully behind the man, and I don’t regard some of the shit you see in here as an opinion. In fact, I honestly wish some people that have attached themselves to our club would just fuck off and ponitificate on some other club’s forums. They certainly bring nothing to ours. But, idiots aside, you can’t just disregard some of the opinions as nonsense.
People have a right to question a performance like that. It was shite.
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 #412 |
roarin-red
Posted on December 20, 2009 @ 12:46 pm
Pshenava welcome to the mad house. Trust me we all thing that liverpool’s luck is tied in with our own. When we’re playing well I can take a very positive stance on shit which is being thrown my way,when we’re going through a patch like this I fucking hate everybody.
Last week i lost my job,and the week before i had just moved house. They’re just the things i’m willing to talk about put liverpools fuckin season in the mixer and you can just imagine how i’m feeling.
This is indeed a very difficult period for our club but I’ll stick by them,because its the only way I know. Last night playing cards i fell out with one of my oldest friends because he things rafa has to go. Now this guy knows his football and has supported the club as long as i have but he’s just so frustrated with the season it’s led him to this opinion.
Bad times but we will come through it……we always do.
P.s just to lighten the mood
A fella walks home pissed grabs his wife and says
“hey love, do ya wanna play the rape game?”
she says
“get off,no!!”
he says
“that’s the spirit”
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 #413 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 20, 2009 @ 12:48 pm
Keith mate, the thing is, the players are letting their heads drop and/or absoulutely losing them, ala Masch.
Of course, Rafa isn’t to blame for that. But something needs to be done.
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 #414 |
guinnessdrinker
Posted on December 20, 2009 @ 2:00 pm
rome fecking great analogy man and believe me ive been defending rafa as i did with ged for a long time but there has to come a time when the man in charge is questioned. i dont post much but have been reading and enjoying kopblog for donkeys even before gerry was writing it! im jpt_dub on TIA check my old posts and that if you want. what im trying to say is i like to read about the club and what other people who love the club are thinking and I only feel the need to say something when something is wrong. its not kneejerk or anti-rafa its pro liverpool and always will be premier league or blue square bring it on. i personaly cant think of a better manager out there to do the job but and this is the thing the game is about results and when the results stop coming someone has to be held to account, this matters too much to too many people for results not to be questioned no.
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 #415 |
KeithSA
Posted on December 20, 2009 @ 2:13 pm
FS Masch does it once in a while, for what reason God knows, but it’s like a switch in his brain that goes on and he looses it. We played really well against Arsenal and things conspired against us to loose it, the heads did not drop so much as Johnson had two bad moments which led to two goals. We played reasonably well against Wigen, yet conceded a soft goal and you could see the collective panic set in. The P”Smith game had a similar pattern, we started well enough, yes the ground was an ice ring which made it difficult to play possession football, we went behind to anther basic mistake form Johnson. I like the lad and I don’t think he is fit, but for fuck sake put the ball out over the bar if necessary and play safe, instead of being cute. These are the types of things that seem to happen when a club is going through bad patch. The Masch sending off compounded it, then the niggles and physical stuff to get under our skin with no protection from the ref and the boys are more concerned with arguing than playing. Gerrard needed to be a captain at that moment, call the boys together and take the game by the scruff of the neck but he didn’t. He is far from fit as well and where he normally leads by example he cannot throw himself around like we are used too, flying into tackles, bursting through from midfield, moments of inspiration that galvanizes the team and inspires his team mates to achieve the impossible. It falls to Agger who misses, or a less than sharp Torres who misses the opportunity, or Kuyt who miss places the final ball. When we should have been level, how motivating would that have been, yet we fall further behind from another defensive mistake from our own Mr Reliable, Cara. I feel for the lads because they must be thinking fuck when are we going to get a break. We just have to stick together, graft harder and work our way out of the mess we find ourselves in. That’s where we as the supporters can also help. Yes we all know things are not good and we are not playing to the level we should be playing at but calling for heads and getting on their collectives backs will surly not help.
How do we fix it, fuck knows, short of getting everybody fit and getting our confidence back, calling for Rafa’s head and saying the team is shite will do far more damage then the morons that are calling for it can ever fathom. They think just because we have been supporting the team since the 60’s that we have gone senile and cannot see that we are in a crises. Of course we can we have just different outlooks on who is responsible and how it can be fixed. This is still the same team that played scintillating football in the run in last season.
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 #416 |
Sambo
Posted on December 20, 2009 @ 2:17 pm
nice one FS. good to see one of the old guard in here actually realising that while most of us want rafa to stay, the fact is we have the right to demand more from our team than that woeful effort. both rafa and the players are accountable for that shit. i’m getting a bit bored of the abusive, pious and self-important posts from keith, akka and aitch. i like the loyalty lads, but your posts are boring. how about addressing the problems of the team rather than those of sula and his ilk. and yes, i know you’ve been writing comments for ages and the knee-jerkers don’t think before they type, but jeezus….
for me it looks like torres would really appreciate a bit more support. if there is to be any funds available, i’d love to see them spent on a supporting striker. an anelka-esque player who can share the goals, provide some interplay on the edge of the box, and allow gerrard to boss mid-field. torres looks fed up. gerrard looks impotent. these 2 influence the mood of the whole team and when their heads go down, we lose.
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 #417 |
JackHill
Posted on December 20, 2009 @ 2:28 pm
Hughes is available-is he suitable instead of Sammy? – would he come anyway? It is a change, for
the better? I don’t know-I think the Rafa now has bitten off more than he can chew and it is affecting the whole team,those who are fit enough to play anyhow.
It saddens me greatly to see our team in such circumstances.
I’ve just had my laptop fixed to work perfectly-I wish something could do the same for our team.
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 #418 |
ldhawan
Posted on December 20, 2009 @ 2:32 pm
Remember my words. Next game we are going to score at least 3 goals. With one holding midfielder, we will score more. Just a few games ago we attacked so well. Lucas was on the bench for that one. Can’t remember against whom.
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 #419 |
aiyic
Posted on December 20, 2009 @ 2:35 pm
Well, well, well! It amazes me that some fans think that Rafa is going to turn things around. Amazes me! There is nothing to base that opinion on. It’s not like we’re being teased with good football that would make us think that could “turn the corner”. Maybe it’s his faith in Kuyt’s faith that gives these fans faith. I don’t know.
West Brom went down last season by being ultimately just not good enough, but played decent football, with players with good attitudes. Now that might make you think that they could come back if they stuck at it. And now they’re in second place in the Championship.
But Rafa has us playing mind-numbingly defensive and predictable football, with players visible down-hearted. Is this what makes people think that “a new start” is “around the corner”?
People use the “Madrid-want-him” mantra as proof that we have a good manager. As if Madrid know a thing or two about hiring managers. As if they have exercised great judgement in the past when making “keeping faith”.
If you think so highly of Madrid’s judgement, then would you think they’d have *bad* judgement if they sacked Rafa if was in the same situation as their manager?
Rafa is a nice man. He’s quite humble when talking about himself and our club, and he doesn’t get into knots when dealing with the press. He’s got the heritage of the club spot-on in how he talks about us. I like him. But he definitely is not the right man for us now. We don’t seem to have any direction now, and this is after five years.
There simply is no evidence to support the case that he is building an empire. Gerry has been a staunch supporter of Rafa, but I would like to highlight one from his archives that says everything that I feel now.
The main one being that even if Rafa had the millions that we dream of, he’d just use more expensive versions of what we already have.
http://www.thisisanfield.com/kopblog/2008/02/time-for-benitez-to-go/
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 #420 |
guinnessdrinker
Posted on December 20, 2009 @ 2:37 pm
“for me it looks like torres would really appreciate a bit more support. if there is to be any funds available, i’d love to see them spent on a supporting striker. an anelka-esque player who can share the goals, provide some interplay on the edge of the box, and allow gerrard to boss mid-field. torres looks fed up. gerrard looks impotent. these 2 influence the mood of the whole team and when their heads go down, we lose.”
hear hear.. something to get excited about and thats what its all about is’nt it.
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 #421 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 20, 2009 @ 2:45 pm
Sambo, although I think decent supporters have a right to question what is going on, I also think Keith is absolutely right in what he says.
And I’ve been trying to tell people for months how badly the shite “Supporters” are damaging the club.
The players are only young lads. They hear the moans and groans from the stands. They read the papers, watch Sly, listen to the radio and even look in the forums.
It’s not too hard to imagine how all the negativity affects them. And it’s too easy to just say, they are highly payed professionals and it shouldn’t affect them. I don’t think there is a man amongst us, regardless of age or experience, who it doesn’t affect. So it’s bound to rub off on the players.
But having said that, there is also something wrong and it needs fixing. Myself, I think given time Rafa will sort it out. But, like I’ve also been saying for months, if this doesn’t clear up and clear up very soon, the job will become untenable for Rafa.
I dread that happening and think the club could go into a proper crisis if Rafa walks or is pushed. But if the players don’t start performing soon, Rafa will have to go anyway.
It’s a terrible mess.
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 #422 |
guinnessdrinker
Posted on December 20, 2009 @ 3:10 pm
fs “It’s a terrible mess” bang on the money it is a terrible mess but its fixable the players are there our first 11 is as strong as anything in europe so why after a six week break has it collapsed? my opionion is that we peaked under rafa last season.
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 #423 |
kopcolly
Posted on December 20, 2009 @ 3:22 pm
hi guy’s, been reading this blog 4 the last 2yrs,there’s a few in here with a world of knowledge about our football club & more recently there’s 1 or 2 arsehole’s , we all know who they are, any way i didnt come in here 2 step on any1′s toe’s i just wanted 2 put a hot topic in here 2 bed, i watched our dismal display against portsmouth yday with an anfield legend whose name i wont mention but i know digger wil back me up on this, aqualani was the subject of our conversation & our legend informed us that the kid dosent want 2 play, he’s afraid 2, so can i just say GET OFF RAFAS BACK, is he perfect no , do i agree with all his decisions no but he is the best thing that has happened 2 our club since king kenny, we have a squad of players who have lost there balls! rafa, the players & we as supporters need 2 stick 2gether or were gonna be the next leeds united! as 4 the 1 or 2 arseholes in here i’ll keep my slate’n 4 the manc’s & chav’s u should do the same! YNWA!
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 #424 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on December 20, 2009 @ 3:25 pm
Remember when we’d concede a goal last season we’d lift our performance 90% of the time? Well this season is the exact opposite and its been happening from the beginning of the season. The team shows absolutely no heart whatsoever when things go against them. As Keith pointed out we were playing great against Arsenal, 2 mistakes and a wonder strike put us 2-1 down with half an hour to go. Plenty of time to get back into the game or even win it. But what was the reaction from the players? Just a gutless performance and we finished the game a shadow of the team that we were an hour earlier.
These are supposed to be top end elite footballers and I am seeing no heart, no fight, no character, no real desire to overcome a losing situation. That performance was an embarrassment and as far as I am concerned the players should feel ashamed of themselves.
Rafa says we were controlling the game before the sending off. I do not agree. We were happy passing the ball around and creating fuck all. No shot on goal. This Portsmouth side have the worse home defensive record in the division yet at no stage do we look like opening up their defence. The one clear chance comes from a set piece where Agger misses an absolute sitter. He missed a similar sitter against Wigan.
Where is the leadership in the dressing room? When are the experienced characters going to stand up and be counted? What is the coaching staff doing to motivate these players?
There is more posts about the posts of others. How about addressing the team and performances. I too am getting bored of the chastisements of what some people have to say. Even though a lot of it is moronic. This is what happens when you win 4 out of 17 games. Ignore what you consider to be a bollocks opinion and lets talk football please.
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 #425 |
Sambo
Posted on December 20, 2009 @ 3:53 pm
totally agree LB. and FS, know exactly what you mean about how negativity breeds negativity so ignorant ‘supporters’ should keep their ill-conceived criticisms to themselves. but when i come in here i’m hoping to find football discussion not postings of how long people have been reading the blog and how stupid other posters are. sorry to the lads i mentioned, but i’m sure they’ve got more to offer than that. how can morale be lifted and this slump be arrested. that’s what i’m interested in, not sula and how stupid he is.
any other suggestions for a kind of player that could improve our shape if the funds are available?
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 #426 |
guinnessdrinker
Posted on December 20, 2009 @ 4:05 pm
thats it londonB 4 wins out of 17. name one top club in europe that would stand for that. NONE. not one. not one would accept that. but we should. why? because our owners are shite, we had injuries, the media hate us, players need to bed in, our fans are shite, other teams raise their game against us. all that is is excuses.simple as.
abromovich is a crook, the glazers are spoofers and man city are owned by undemocrataic monarchs who use salves to buld their their palaces.
it seems to me that thats what people think and hope will bring us a league title..well i beg to differ a league title will be delivered on the back of the players and the man who manages those players. end of story.
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 #427 |
quietRed
Posted on December 20, 2009 @ 4:22 pm
Maybe this will be considered one of those shite theories (and maybe it is!), but it’s definitely crossed my mind as a possibility lately – could it be that the team is still basically hung over from giving so much and getting so close last season only to come up just short?
This happens in sports all the time. A team does all it can to climb to the top, actually does enough that they *should* have done won a title, but a few bad bounces take the crown from them. Everyone involved is gutted. Then, the next season, the team can’t seem to find the energy or enthusiasm to give it their all again over so many months and games after the way last season slipped through their grasp. Could that be part of the problem for us?
If so, that’s bad news. The only cure for that hangover is a change in major management or among the top players. And we can’t afford (nor do we really want) either. Maybe Rafa could just change up styles/formations/etc. to shake things up and give the fellows a bit of a spark? Change for change’s sake?
I don’t know. I’ve just never felt this way, don’t know what to do with myself. I don’t care about losing, I just want the players to TRY once again.
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 #428 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 20, 2009 @ 4:33 pm
Sorry lads, but if you think injuries, no money, media pressure, and terrible supporters doesn’t affect performance, then you are terribly wrong.
I near ended up fighting again yesterday. I’m a daft old bastard but I just can’t help meself, and I will not stand by and idly watch people pull down this club.
I like people from Pompey. For Southerners they are quite friendly, and mainly decent working class people. I used to have a flower stall in the city centre and know quite a few of them. I talked to some of them yesterday and some complete strangers in the pub after the game. Thay all asked the same thing… What the fuck has happened to our team and our support?
They were frankly shocked by both. Sadly, I’m becoming used to both. It’s a vicious cycle, apathy and anxiety spreading from the stands to the pitch and visa versa.
Can Rafa turn it around?
Well, I just seen that shithouse, Mick McCarthy, pulling his team into a huddle on the middle of the pitch after they’ve just won. All show for the media and the supporters. But you watch how they fight at Anfield next week. And this is going to become the trend for the season.
I agree with LB, to the extent that the players need to have a long hard look at themselves, roll their sleeves up, put in some graft and fight. But then so do we… Far too many of us just want to piss and moan, and not put in the effort.
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 #429 |
Arthur G. Posis
Posted on December 20, 2009 @ 4:59 pm
Massive two games coming up – where we realistically need to get all 6 points. if we lose to Villa we could find ourselves 11 points off Champions League spot. I dislike our American owners as much as everyone else here does, but they ARE the owners – nothing we can do about that. And I know if I was them I’d be seriously concerned that the man I gave a brand spanking new contract to in the summer, looks like he is not going to achieve even the most minimum targets. I’d be thinking how can we stop the rot. is Rafa the man to get us out of it??? I just don’t know and worringly Rafa seems to have gone slightly mad – see article from Guardian below:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/dec/20/liverpool-rafael-benitez-portsmouth
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 #430 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 20, 2009 @ 5:43 pm
Chelsea are now 1 down at West Ham. They’ll most probably turn it around, but look at the loss columns in the league table… There are no easy games this season.
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 #431 |
guinnessdrinker
Posted on December 20, 2009 @ 5:58 pm
fs i totally respect you and your opionions i have no right to argue with you all im saying is there comes a time when backing someone no matter what the results are has to stop.
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 #432 |
KeithSA
Posted on December 20, 2009 @ 5:59 pm
My fuck with all my pious talk I cannot believe I missed the most obvious way we can get out of this terrible situation, we go out and buy an Anelke-esq (15 million and counting), why not a David Silva (20 million and counting, or David Villa (30 million and counting while we are at it, Turner (12 million and counting) to shore up the defence, Danial Alves (12 million sold for 20 million) to run down the flanks, oh yes I forgot we had to beg and steal to get a 30 odd year old Greek at 1.5 mill as cover as well as send another bright attacking option the other way just to bring in that cover. As for the bright spark that said we could have brought in Owen on a free well the 100 000 a week wage package is certainly not free and would have come out of our non existent transfer budget or would you have preferred we sold a few of the players we signed on new and extended deals. You are all right the owners have nothing to do with it its down to Rafa playing Dossena on the left with two holding midfielders. That half the team is unfit and are buggered for the second half has nothing to do with it as well. We will slowly come right as our fitness improves, it will be a long haul there are no quick fix it scenarios just hard graft. If any of you have ever been in a slump or played at a high level you will know this. The worst thing that can happen is to change things and panic. That’s when the real shit will hit the fan. I agree FS a kick up the proverbial backside might work at this stage, also the fans getting behind them could also help. Here endith the sermon I will leave it to our more educated fans to find the solution, however the team is shite Rafa is shite, go out and buy new players with no money is hardly a solution.
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 #433 |
KeithSA
Posted on December 20, 2009 @ 6:20 pm
Less than half the season has been played we have suffered one of the worst injury crises in my memory and you can add shitty luck, we finished second with a record points haul the year before and we want to dump a manager without giving him time or a budget to get things right. 10 points off second and 8 off third and fourth playing the worst football we have seen under Rafa, that can only get better given time and a fully fit squad. I hope he fucks of then we will all see how much in the shit we will be. No manger will want to come, yes Mark Hughes, Steve Maclarin, Fat Sam maybe with no budget to buy players no CL money to pay the debt and players being sold to keep us afloat. That my friend, no CL, was the reality before Rafa came; at least those managers before him had more money than Rafa to spend. Please, please amongst all your negative comments state how you would put things right, given the circumstances we find ourselves in. We all know we are playing well below what we are capable of, we all know we are not winning, we all know we have won 4 in the last 17 so wave your magic wand and fix it.
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 #434 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 20, 2009 @ 6:50 pm
#430: I completely agree. There does indeed come a time when a manager has to go. And if the players don’t start to get stuck in for him, that time could come for Rafa very soon.
It will be a mistake, and I can’t see any good coming from it. But yeah, it will become impossible for Rafa to do the job if this carries on much longer.
It’s not the results. Chelsea are now drawing, thanks to a penalty that shouldn’t have been given. And that just shows that from top to bottom of the league all teams are capable of taking points from the others.
And that’s how it should be. Back in the old 2 points for a win, 1 for a draw days, to win the league you had to win your home games and draw away. We did that for years. It’s not enough now and if you but games seem to be getting harder with each passing season.
And the pressure on manager’s hasn’t only grew in the actual game. The media circus, and the shite “Supporters” they attracted to the game seems to get worse with every passing game.
I don’t know how bad it is in Ireland, but believe me mate, it’s bloody woeful here. And the media have now moved on with their agenda. They are now actually trying to make Rafa nothing more than a figure of mockery and ridicule.
So that’s phase one complete. If they do complete the job and reduce the man to nothing but a buffoon, there’s no choice for him or the club… he has to go.
But mark my words mate, if he does it will only get worse. Mind you, at least the whingers will fuck off.
That’s that at West Ham. The chavs have got a point they didn’t deserve and not for the first time this season. And that sort of shit decision by a ref could well lose Zola his job.
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 #435 |
kristur
Posted on December 20, 2009 @ 7:12 pm
Besides our horrendous form and lack off desire you can also take in the fact that lady luck has just not given us a break this season. That Belhadj fella probably won’t hit another goal like that in his lifetime and the same probably goes for the other Pompey guy.
As opposed to that double deflection their keeper clawed away – no need to guess where that would have ended up if it had happened our side of the pitch.
Rafa is facing his biggest test. We the fans of course have to rally behind the team but the biggest responsibility when it comes to motivation lies with the manager and his staff. All will be revealed but a failure to get a result against Villa could signal a major change – for better or worse?
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 #436 |
Dizzy
Posted on December 20, 2009 @ 7:55 pm
While all the talk here is being related to our team and our manager, i wud like to mention that i see Manures going out of champions league slot this season … they got problems wid there defence and have been defeated at home by villa and away to fulham… (someone see a familiar trend) … still not a fart in the media abt it …
Any Takers ??
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 #437 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 20, 2009 @ 8:13 pm
Dizzy, Chelsea haven’t exactly set the place on fire either. In fact, they’ve stunk at times. But you have to understand the British media…
It’s basically like a pit bull, thick, ignorant, and lazy, but once it’s gets it’s teeth into something it will not let go and will not be turned no matter what.
It’s like a runaway train, it just hurtles along on a narrow track and won’t stop until it wrecks.
So, no matter what the Tramp will always be good old Fergie, despite all known fact telling us he is an absolutely disgusting character. And Benitez will always be the arrogant, stubborn foriegn Johnny.
It’s just the nature of the beast mate. But what does my head in is, our stupid ignorant hangers on that aid them in their agenda.
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 #438 |
Dizzy
Posted on December 20, 2009 @ 8:43 pm
FS, it didnt take me long to realize how biased english media is… it hasnt been long for me in this country, just a few days over a year …but i figured that out quite early especially wen Rafa came out wid his FACTS that the media called a rant but didnt bother to brand teh same to wat fungusface came out wid in reply … and then wid that episode regarding Sam shitface and fungusface the pious man coming to his aide …
The most blatant proof of media being soft on fungusface was wen he branded Man city being a small club wid small mentality … Did teh media projected it the same way it did to Rafa’s mentioning of Everton being a small club due to his bad english …
Anyways, if we look at the table today, Manures are 2 points ahead of arsenal wid the later having one game in hand .. and given arsenal win that, that pushes manu in 3rd place just 2 ahead of aston villa … and wid spurs and city just 4 odd points away, it can pretty well de-rail manures out of that top four .. but then again, all this do make u realize how close the season is this time around… and every team has failed to capitalize on other’s slip including chelsea..
COme end of jauary i mite be encouraged to put my wager on Manures losing out of champions league spot!
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 #439 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 20, 2009 @ 9:24 pm
I couldn’t give a fuck what Man United do mate. Yes, I’d prefer them not to win the league, but then I don’t like to see them win a corner nevermind a game. But at the end of the day, it’s only Liverpool I’m bothered about.
And I just sat and watched the game on LFCtv. I’m home alone, so I could really watch and study it. Sometimes you need to do that – especially when you’ve been the match and had a few pints before going in.
It really wasn’t as bad as I thought. I was angry at the them for not trying, but they did… right up to the end. I was also pissed off with Nando’s and Gerrard’s attitude. But having seen it again, Gerrard was just frustrated. And Nando was completely right to moan. He got kicked to fuck and never recieved any protection from the ref at all.
As for the ref, Rafa was right… he was perfect. A perfect disgrace. Mascherano was a yellow card. It wasn’t malicious it was just daft. Some of the tackles on Torres where far worse. But once the red came out, he’d made a problem for himself and had to keep pulling cards. The one on Johnson was just bloody ridiculous.
And Johnson… well, this is the problem with ball playing defenders. They don’t just whack it into touch when they should – like when he should have nodded that one out that led to the first goal. Same with Agger. He shouldn’t have been trying to win that ball out by the corner. He should have just slid through the player and knocked the ball into touch.
As for the fight in the team, well the lose wasn’t really down to the lack of effort. We huffed and puffed but didn’t creat enough. Watch Kuyt. He’s proof. He had one of them Deadly Dirk days, when he never stopped running, put in all the graft but just didn’t create anything.
But who could Rafa pull off our most hard working player, when the side is down to practically nine men… Yossi was limping and pretty much out of the game after just ten minutes or so on the pitch.
And make no bones about it, that sending off did alter the course of the game. Pompey were very organised, worked really hard and made it very difficult for us to play through them. That’s five wins out of five Avram Grant has over us… another unfashionable foreigner who – despite all he’s achieved – is looked upon as some sort of mug by the media.
So it’s little wonder we suffered creatively. Hopefully Aquilani will help sort this out. But what we really need to do now, is what I’ve been saying all season… get stuck in. Play shit on a stick footy if necessary, and grind out wins until the form and performances come back.
If you think back to last season, we went to Pompey with a team desimated by injury, that much so that we had to rejig the whole side. But the thing is, we fought like fuck to the final whistle and ended up winning more by sheer force of will than the actual football.
And whether you want Rafa or want him sacked, there’s one thing you can’t deny… Rafa has fought tooth and claw for us supporters and the players. The least we and the players owe him is to return a little of that.
PS… Dosenna was actually our best player for the first half hour of the game.
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 #440 |
Dizzy
Posted on December 20, 2009 @ 10:49 pm
Thats been the story for most of our games … LUCK .. 50-50 decisions not going our way … pompey scored two goals from unbelievable angles… how many times wud a team do that ?? we had three shots on goals that wud have gone in any other day or a season i shud say …those have gone in if it was against us .. thats the sort of luck we r carrying at the moment … I cant believe how come the refs are unable to see that torress gets kicked all over the grnd as soon he gets the ball .. I saw all that but didnt say it for being labelled as a sore-loser … but thats wat it is … Sometimes u can win ugly … or wid a minimum of shots on goal .. examples are Arsenal’s win against us at anfield both this and last season …
This season everything’s going extremely against us.. from injuries to freak goals to bad ref decisions … i have forgotten wen was the last time we had a LUCKY decision.. Ppl wud point out Ngog’s penalty but it wud have been a stone-wall penalty if ngog hadnt “DIVED”.. he was running straight into a foul .. Intent, wasnt this the MAGIC word used to defend masch’s red card ??
Sacking Rafa now or even at the end of teh season wud b a big huge mistake … Yes, that wud be deserved if Rafa had wasted millions on HUGE signings, but how many times did he get the nod for the player he really wanted ?? why shud he be sacked wen he always had to compromise on transfers ?? and thats my question to all those Knee-Jerkers too … Why cant a person wid even a 8 yr old’s IQ comprehend wat have been the real reasons behind our below-par season?? Cant they see that after running so close last season we needed to BUILD our squad and not to REPLACE ?? and thats precisely wat Rafa had to do.. and been doing since he has arrived!
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 #441 |
Diggerno.10
Posted on December 20, 2009 @ 11:19 pm
Well lads, they say you should never meet your heroes as they’ll inevitably let you down. I met one of mine yesterday and nothing could be further from the truth in the case of Jan Molby. At the risk of sounding like a gushing schoolgirl in the throes of puppy love….what a top man and a true gent. He watched the game with us, shaking hands up and down the bar all morning, offering his thoughts and insight on the game in progress, signing everything and anything handed to him aswell as posing for more pix than any sane man would handle. Not saying he’s insane! Just a credit to his patience and warm demeanor all morning. After the horror show (match) came the highlight of the morning; A question and answers session that went on to last an hour and covered everythingfrom the beginning of his career through to the end, the state of football now and even a talk through of that goal against utd whilst the goal played on the big screen beside him. Magic….
More of that later but first this; luckily your resident roving reporter managed – through a battle of positioning that resembled the 18yd box before a corner kick on derby day – to wind up stood beside Jan midway through the first half. After attaining a semblance of composure I was just about to launch into ‘Well Jan, hows it going’ when to my surprise (probably felt sorry for me having witnessed my shuffling and manouevering to reach my spot) I recieved ‘Alright mate….
Digger: ‘yeah great Jan, yourself?’
Jan:’Grand yeah’
D: ‘Jesus we’re terrible today, whats going on with our form?’
J: ‘Well we’re missing Alonso arent we….
D: ‘Bigtime. Terrible loss, never should have sold him.’
J: ‘Well he never wanted to leave did he…’
D: ‘Really?…’
J: (at this point Jan says something that after much consideration and out of respect for the man and for Rafa I’ve chosen not to print. I’m not being a tease, I just dont think it would be fair to either of them)
Conversation continues on Alonso
J: ‘yeah he’s a top lad Xabi, still loves the club and the lads, did you see him in the stands at the Arsenal game?’
D: ‘Yeah! Couldent believe that!’
J: ‘Yeah, he’s just played a match the night before against Valencia and caught a flight to Liverpool for the game next day, he told me the only flight he could get was a poxy 45euro Ryanair flight! Thats committment innit?! (laughs)
D: (laughing) ‘Thats definitely dedication alright!’
J: ‘Yeah but he’s missed innee…(looks toward t.v) the 2 lads are too similar arent they…’
D: (this ones for you Lurgan!) ‘yeah thats my take too….Whatcha thinks gonna happen with Aquilani? Wheres he gonna play him?’
J: ‘Well this is his problem now, wheres he gonna play em all? To be honest I think he’s gonna play him behind Torres and push Stevie out to the left…’
D: ‘Really?? (emphasis on the ‘really’)
J: ‘Yeah, well he cant get his left sorted can he…I mean Rieras not up to it, who knows whats going on with Babel, and Dossena, well….(gestures to t.v)
D: ‘Yeah I know but…remember the last time Stevie was pushed out to the wing…”the graveyard shift” ‘n all?
J: ‘Yeah I know, but thats what I think is gonna happen.’
(at this point Portsmouth score)
D: ‘Aw for fucks sake….fucken weak header again…
J: ‘Another man we’re missing….’
D: ‘Sami?’
J: ‘Yep. Look at the season he’s having…He’s having a great year, loves it over there, told me the other week “Jan, I can play til I’m 40 over here”.’
D: ‘Yeah, what a player, he’s kept 7 or 8 clean sheets in a row at the heart of the Leverkusen defence, they rest him for a game and they concede 2 goals! Still maintain we should have kept him…
J: ‘Yeah, well Sami wanted to stay but they wouldent meet his terms…’
D: ‘Why not?’
J: ‘Sami wanted a 2yr deal, full pay for the first year, pay as you play for the second but but they wouldent go for it…..’
D: (shaking head in despair at how little it would have took to keep him) ‘Jesus Christ….’
(First half drawing to a close Jan begins the trek down the bar to the pisser and is duly mobbed)
D: ‘Alright Jan, pleasure mate’
J: ‘No problem…’
After that I returned to the horror show and wondered how much we could do with him in the middle now…..And then Pompey scored again. Ah well, at least Stevie wont be out celebrating this Christmas eh?!
Fulltime was followed by an hour long Q&A during which he was very candid and always entertaining. He never ducked any question and as I say was very forthcoming. He told a few ripping yarns too! But I’ll start with a few of the questions ye asked. Alright, the best player he ever played with he said was Johan Cryuff. Jan actually played a full season with him at Ajax in ’82 I think he said. Jan was omly 18 at the time I think. He went on to mention Van Basten who was also at the club at the time and went on to be top scorer in Europe in ’83. The following year he joined Liverpool where Rush finished top scorer that year so he said he was very lucky to have played with 2 of the greatest strikers in the world at that time. He went on to mention Fowler as being the best finisher he’s played with and considered Barnes the best player in the world in ’87-’88. ‘John was amazing’ he said ‘Watching him running up and down that wing….I’ve never seen anyting like him. He was the best player in the world then as far as I’m concerned.’ That drew warm applause from the crowd. Diggerno.10 ‘Who was the best player you’ve ever played against?’ ‘Mmmm….I know he’s a manc but…Bryan Robson…’ (Audible gasps from the crowd!) ‘Yeah yeah, I know what ye’re thinking, manc this and manc that but he truly was a great player and the best I played against in England. Outside of England, again not a popular choice, lot of Irish here! (laughs) but I’d have to say Platini.’
Pressed on why Owen joined the mancs Jan offered this ‘well Michaels a business man playing football isnt he’. Pressed further on why Rafa dident try to bring him back a la Fowler he said that Michael just dident have the same bond with the Kop that Robbie had. He went on to speak about Robbies affinity with the fans and how much they mean to him. What all this had to do with why Rafa dident bring Owen back I’m not sure but I got the impression that he dident want to pile on Rafa and suspected thats where the question was going. On Rafa its very obvious that he likes the man and clearly respects him but I got the impression that he feels his time may be drawing to a close. As the conversation turned that way he asked for a show of hands ‘who thinks Rafa should go?’ I must confess my arm was in the air. ‘Ok, who thinks he should stay? Alright its about what I thought it would be; 70% for 30% against.’ ‘Everywhere I go’ he said ‘its about the same but its growing all the time.’ He went on to mention some of the great things Rafas done, emphasising the European nights, Juventus and Barca in particular, saying ‘We went to Turin needing a nil nil and my mates were nervous, I said “no worries lads, we’ve got this” and what happened? They never had ashot on goal. Same with Barca. I was completely confident in Rafas organisation and ability to keep the out.’ Digger: ‘So what has happened Jan , to this famed organizational ability and attention to detail?’. Jan: ‘Well to be honest I think he’s taken too much on. You look at it he’s involved in every level of the club now from top to bottom and I think maybe its affecting him. Look, I think Rafas a great coach, a great trainer, Melwood, thats where his strength is, All this other stuff…..(pauses) Let me give you an example; the other week we played Sunderland and we played 3 centrebacks which I thought ok, this is new. So I ask Daniel Agger; “have ye practised that all week or what?” He says to me “No. We were told at 10 to 2″‘ At this you can just feel the crowd deflating. Jan goes on to explain that he feels that these are some of the details that are beginning to eat at morale and illustrate how other things are distracting him from where he’s needed most. He spoke at length about the travails of Babel and Lucas also. He said that when Gary Ablett was reserve team coach he’d tell Ryan, ‘knock the ball past your man get your crosses in. 9 times out of 10 you’ll beat him, the other time you’ll win a corner.’ ‘Whats the first thing he does Jan?’ asks Gary, ‘Cuts inside and runs head down into 3 players. Theres no talking to him. He wont listen.’ Having said that, Jan did say that he believes Babel will be a player but at another club, not Liverpool. Same with Lucas. Both he thinks will wind up on the continent. ‘Wrong time wrong place?’ I offer. Jan nods in agreement.
Thats all thats coming back to me now lads or maybe my fingers are just getting tired. I’m sure I’ll remember more, especially when I meet up with me mates who were there with me and we chew the fat.
On a side note, I thought long and hard about revealing the Daniel Agger/Sunderland anecdote for obvious reasons but after careful consideration, my thinking is, Jan did disclose it in a public forum during a question and answers session and as a man familiar with public speaking I’m sure he realizes that his words will be recounted and retold from friend to friend and so on. He was also being recorded on cell phones and so forth. So with that taken into account I decided to recount it in here. I deliberately did not reveal other things he said to me in conversation as that was not a public forum. So with that I’ll leave ye for now chaps. Hope theres a few interesting tidbits in there to mull over. This is your humble correspondant signing off!
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 #442 |
dougle
Posted on December 20, 2009 @ 11:39 pm
Hi gang,
I am out of the english speaking world at the moment but opening ontu this site yesterday was like opening one of my daughters used nappy bags. Lurching from bad to good to worse to God knows what. I dislike venom when it is not my own, however there is real danger in the air now for Rafa as well as the whole club.
Stand back and look at it.
Chelsea have been playing with 3 wheels on their wagon since Essien, one player, was injured. However they had momentum before and see the positive side of scraping a 1-1 draw with a bottom 3 outfit.
Manure, as many have commented on, also have been fairly poor, getting by on Ryan Giggs and other factors, Mick Mc Carthy etc… i.e reputation, luck, and a winners arrogance and attitude.
Arsenal, we should have beaten, as should Burnley and imagine then the hounding that Arsene would now be getting. Their luck and our skittishness saw them thru at Anfield and that was a make or break for them.
Villa are the face of premiership pragmatism. They will defend like troopers at home against anyone, let alone away, and hit you on the break. Solid, squalid, limited, boring football that is matched by many others, particularly when they play against us.
Spurs are Spurs but they are on the way up and thus can take a 0-1 at home to Mc Carthy and his pragmatic 11 defender football muggers because the expectation really is not there. They cannot lose.
Man Citeh…. well give me 11 Kuyts before 11 Robinhos. Flash Harry bullshit brigade of Chav-like mercenaries.
Right now I cannot think of anyone else above us – belgian beer rules eh !
Which brings us to us. Most all of what I would like to say has been said by Aitch and Keith and FS, so you know where I stand. But I will throw in one other point as to why we are in this predicament;
At the start of the season, indeed before it, right through the second half of last season, ther was considerable “debate” about all the home draws that ultimately cost us the title.
“We need new options and style and attitude etc” well i believe Rafa also thought the same thing and he went and changed the emphasis to a subtley more attack minded philosophy which demands more of all the players. I think this would have worked had we started well and had time and results to grow the confidence and bed this system in. But that did not happen. Injuries, mistakes, and yet more injuries and mistakes has undercut the confidence and marooned Rafa. So where does he go ?
Confidence within the team is shot and ergo confidence in the manager is compromised.
I am completely sure Rafa would go the Aston Villa route if he thought he could for now, but we do not really have it at either end. Some of our best attackers are defenders and possibly our best defender is playing on the right wing. We have no pace, right now, at either end and so have to kind of play the ball around and football our way in to score, but it is happening too slowly. We cannot play high up because of a lack of pace Johnson apart, at the back, and we rarely have nando and Stevie fit enough to theaten teams from the front with pace so we play in front of “pragmatic, organised” teams who know very well how we will set up.
They just defend in numbers to nullify Nando, they know Kuyt is no threat with pace and Benny, if fit, will cut in on the right foot.The worst thing is every team in the league knows that they will get a chance and that we can be held.
We have negative momentum right now to go with a half-fit squad which is looking for a plan B.
The only way through, as I see it, is to win by hook or by crook, scap it out and get the 2-1 Wigan results. Do this while playing Nando, Riera, Benny, Babel, Stevie and whoever else to fitness and eek up the confidence levels. Keep battling, with a twist tho, and that is to use Dossena and Degen and Babel when fit. Up the pace where we can. Set up differently, train specific teams for specific games and target specific teams e.g the Manure game. I do not think Rafa has many other cards to play right now. Treat each EPL game like a one-off european game and get very specific about each team we play and how he can unsettle their set-up. In fairness he would seem to have tried that with Dosser at Pompey. Good on you Rafa, except it did not work out.
I could write more but I will leave this post on that slightly positive note …. just for a change eh !
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 #443 |
dougle
Posted on December 20, 2009 @ 11:50 pm
Digger,
just read your post. Excellent read. Interesting how it ties in with the last para of my semi-drunken ramble. Ties in in so much as Rafa did not, it seems, before the Sunderland game, paln the whole thing out and have everyone primed to do it. I have to say I am surprised in one way as I always considered rafa to be a perfectionist. But that was one game, I think the tactical focus point is worth debating. But I am off to bed. Gotta figure out a way out of a snow-bound Belgium tomorrow.
G-nite all.
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 #444 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 20, 2009 @ 11:54 pm
Humble? Did they change the definition of that word?
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 #445 |
Diggerno.10
Posted on December 21, 2009 @ 12:27 am
No idea. Check it out when your looking up ‘petty’.
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 #446 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 21, 2009 @ 12:29 am
Okay if you promise to look up humour, sense of and transplant.
And maybe even have a glance at loyalty.
Did anyone else get a word in while you was there?
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 #447 |
guinnessdrinker
Posted on December 21, 2009 @ 12:36 am
never does the table lie. never. nerver. never. and thats where we are. it sucks. it hurts .its fucking horrible but we are where we are are. walk on walk on, through we walk through the pissing shite the dirty stinking shite but keep that head up eh…
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 #448 |
Diggerno.10
Posted on December 21, 2009 @ 12:45 am
Get some sleep big guy.
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 #449 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 21, 2009 @ 12:59 am
Don’t know if the last bit of that 446 was sarcasm but that’s exactly what we have to do. As the table very often does lie… like at the end of last season. The Mancs weren’t fit to lace our boots for most of it but ended up winning it simply because we didn’t have the personel to kill some teams off.
Rafa even warned us about this before the season started… “I think we need to lower the expectations. It will be hard to win it this season, but we need to be challenging, stay in the top four and see where we are at the end.”
Of course the media leapt all over this as Rafa settling for fourth before a ball was kicked, and the very people Rafa aimed the comment at “We should win it because we are LFC,” joined in like the obliging sheep they are.
A lot of sense in that rant Dougle. Teams do lnow how to defend against us. Grant had Pompey perfectly primed to do that job, but the thing is… when we are fully fit and firing on all cylinders, it doesn’t matter how the defend as we steamroller them anyway.
And if you look beyond the humility in our roving reporters post, you will see that Jan Molby makes some great points. We need to get some creativity out of central mid and we need to get the left wing sorted.
But here’s the problem, and it’s nothing new… money.
Had Rafa been given some in the last two seasons, instead of actually bringing in more than he spent, we would already have that sorted… Barry on the left, if front of Dosenna and either Silva or Villa (Take your pick he could have got either) as second striker.
The players he has been able to spend any real money on in both positions have turned out duds… Aquilani, Babel.
Aquilani may well go onto become a great player for us. Despite all the idiots moaning about him, you only have to look at what Gerrard has said about the lad in training… it’s obvious our captain rates the lad highly.
And who knows, even Babel may decided to knuckle down and give it a real go. But I have given up on him.
But both players could well be seen as failed gambles by Rafa, and for that he has to carry the can.
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 #450 |
Aitch
Posted on December 21, 2009 @ 2:18 am
That’s fair enough FS, I reckon most in here would agree with that, but far too many people want Rafa to carry the can for too many other things.
And what a bloody big can it has become FS!
I don’t think there is a single person in here who doesn’t see that we have problems and isn’t trying to come up with ideas about what they might be or how to solve them.
The chasm of difference lies between… those people who attempt to put a bit of thought into that… and others who just don’t!
This season is an anomoly.
Someone (was it Keith) above said they hadn’t seen a season like this since the beginning of the PL.
Its true… this is like the old Division 1 days, where any team could get a result on any day.
Seriously, if I’d come in here on Friday and stated that Fulham would beat Scum 3-0, you’d have had me locked up!
Who would have been bold enough to predict West Ham 1 Chavs 1??
Not fuckin many of you, I’ll bet.
The Premier League is having a manic-depressive season.
All of its teams are getting results all over the spectrum.
Will the winners stumble over the line on 7 points this season.
I watched the Citeh-Sunderland game yesterday and it was a fuckin terrific game of footy.
Given where they were and where they now are… to fire Hughes at this stage is simply crazy and it sets a bad precedent.
The next voice you hear will be on Sly Sports and TalkShite, telling us how Citeh’s Owners “made a brave dedision” then asking “will Liverpool’s owners show the same bottle?”
Rafa is not the be-all and end-all of football.
The time may well come when he has to leave LFC, be it on his own volition, or forcibly.
THAT TIME IS NOT NOW!
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 #451 |
Kook
Posted on December 21, 2009 @ 2:27 am
Great post Digger.
Thanks very much for sharing it.
Shame about Babel. You’d think a young player with his ability would love to have his job simplified like that. And then the crosses come in, and all the other players run, cos there’s that chance of glory at the end of it. And footie players, when they score, do generally get a smile on that’s not to do with the paycheck. And I think that’s because you can only be great at football if you learn young – before you know what money and sponsorhip and all that.
Still on Babel though, he was having a go against Man C before being injured. And considering we’d not be able to spend any money we got even if we did sell him, I’d keep him – if he gets it right in just one game he might get the idea of what’s needed from him. Either that, or put him on the other wing and tell him to cut inside – see what happens then.
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 #452 |
Aitch
Posted on December 21, 2009 @ 2:41 am
Obviously meant 70 points.
(I have this weird lag happening, where I type something and have to wait 30 seconds for it to appear. Guess I’ll need to proofread more before posting.)
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 #453 |
axchoice
Posted on December 21, 2009 @ 3:10 am
Hi Guys,
I stopped reading any posts and news for a few days after our disappointing loss to Pompey. It’s very, very sad and disappointing, the only consolation is that the Mancs got thrashed at Fulham too.
Questions have come to my mind like: Has Rafa brought us as far as he could?
Remember the high we had during the treble season under Houllier, which brought us second place the next season, and then the terrible form that saw us go from top of the table in October (I think) to fifth at the end of the season. The similarities here is something I don’t like here.
As a fan then, I decided to give Houllier another season to get things back, but he couldn’t and I think he’d lost the team’s confidence and trust by then. It was only the following season that I saw no improvement that I started to ask for Houllier to leave.
As a fan now, I still think it’s fair that Rafa be given time to turn things round, just that I hope it’d not be the same result this time round.
Like Aitch said (in caps), “that time is not now” for Rafa to leave. We’re in a bad condition financially. Maybe the lack of transfer fee this time round is due to showing Standard Chartered our balance sheet isn’t that bad (so that we can get the lucrative sponsorship). And any new manager coming in will have a real uphill task.
And let’s face it. Rafa is one of the best managers in the world at the moment. I know many people will laugh at my opinion here, but I’ll stick by it. I’ve not seen any Liverpool Team in the EPL outplayed Fergie’s Manc so comprehensively and getting the results, the closest being Roy Evans’ team that began beating them early on during his career.
And look how he’s transformed Torres into the striker he is today. Even Fergie didn’t dare to risk the high fee demanded by Athletico before Rafa came in for Torres. And Gerrard. His goal scoring record since Rafa became his manager speaks volumes about his influence on our living legend. So much for all the nonsense about him being a bad man manager. All I can say is that people are motivated by different styles of management (I’m sure many of you working fans will agree to that) and just because the likes of Keane and Babbel are not flourishing under Rafa doesn’t mean he is the cold and bad man manager the press claims. Look at the successes of Reina, Masch (who was sinking into oblivion at West Ham), and even Alonso, to name a few more examples.
However, if he’s lost the team’s confidence, then I think he should go. No matter how good the manager is, if he’s lost the confidence of the team, there’s no way they’ll trust him and apply what is being coached. It’s good for both Rafa and the team.
This is what I’m watching out for, and what I fear in my heart as well.
I hope the team still trusts his footballing “philosophy” (if there’s such a thing) and work hard to overcome the current difficulties. If not, we’re heading for a long and tough road of rebuilding and recovery, and with not many better managers around in the world, together with the press agenda against us, I really fear for the club’s future.
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 #454 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 21, 2009 @ 3:41 am
I can’t bloody sleep. I hate these night’s the day after a booze up. I’m getting to old for that melarkey.
Anyway, I don’t think Rafa has lost the dressing room. In fact, I have it from pretty reliable sources that he hasn’t. And Molby would have told Digger. And that’s not a pop, Digger. I just can’t help but wind you up as you bite far too easy. But I mean that. I’m sure it was asked and he would have answered.
As far as I’ve been told, the lad’s are just as baffled and frustrated as us. And I think it’s just time to baton down the hatches and get back to the basics. No nonsense defending and simple pass and move football. I keep saying it but it’s true… the high tempo crushing/pressuring peformances when a few wins start to build up confidence.
In a way, I’m quite happy Mascherano will be out for awhile if Aquilani is fit. Gerrard only last week said the lad’s a real player and obviously wants some game time with him. Lucas doesn’t get the credit he deserves because his style is low key, but he’s nearly as good as Masch at breaking up the opposition play and retaining the ball.
I’d like to see some other changes too, but a slump is not the time to make drastic/wholesale changes. What we really need now, is a siege, they shall not pass, mentality from which ever 11 players are on the pitch. Like I said earlier, it’s time some people repaid all the faith Rafa has shown in them.
Oh well, think I’ll lay on the couch and watch a film. They never fail to put me to sleep.
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 #455 |
axchoice
Posted on December 21, 2009 @ 3:53 am
Good to hear that from you, FS. At least I can be more assured now. That’s my biggest fear for LFC
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 #456 |
Diggerno.10
Posted on December 21, 2009 @ 4:08 am
It was asked. Believe me, you dont want to hear the answer.
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 #457 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 21, 2009 @ 4:13 am
The problem is mate, the media, with the backing of idiotic fans, may make it impossible for the man to do the job.
And where will that leave us? Well, forget about attracting any other top manager. No one off the top shelf will want to come.
I get accused of being a dinosaur in here, but you can’t see where you’re going if you don’t know where you’ve been…
Shankly was offered the Liverpool job years before accepting it. He declined to take it on at least two occasions because the boardroom meddled too much in the football playing side of things.
He only took it when the board finally agreed to give him all say in the squad, team, players. And back then it was worse than CEO’s and owners deciding who got bought, ala Keane. They actually picked the team. And if Huddersfield would have given Shankly the money he wanted for players, it could have well been them that he built into a giant.
But despite getting us promoted, then winning the league and FA Cup, Shankly had to throw wobbler after wobbler to get what he wanted. He was constantly threatening to quit. And the board actually pulled a rick by hiring him. They were quite content to wobble along on the gate reciepts and beer sales.
In fact, the similarities between then and now are quite frightening. But the thing is, if Rafa loses the fight with H&G we will not have a Bob Paisley to follow in his footsteps. WE will have some Yes Man that will obey the owners, and they’ll just stay well away from the club and asset strip it like they’ve done with their other sporting franchises.
Now I really need to try and get some kip. I’ve got to be up at six. Think my drinking days are over.
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 #458 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 21, 2009 @ 4:13 am
Well go on then Digger.
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 #459 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 21, 2009 @ 4:25 am
Ah well, see you’re just being a little tease eh Dig. Not too worry, I’ll just email Mel or Conny who run the club and find out what he had to say.
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 #460 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 21, 2009 @ 4:25 am
Oh and night night.
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 #461 |
Diggerno.10
Posted on December 21, 2009 @ 5:18 am
You do that Fatty. Cant imagine how they’d be privy to the details of a private conversation but there ya go. Look Fatty, as I said earlier I’m not being a tease. There was a considerable difference btwn his one on one conversations and when he got up on stage for the Q&A. There was an obvious desire not to pile on Rafa and I and my mates noticed it. And respected it. I’m not gonna come on here and compromise the man (he works for Lfc.tv) or the people he spoke about. If that makes me a tease so be it.
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 #462 |
Arthur G. Posis
Posted on December 21, 2009 @ 5:26 am
I want to know Digger – come on, it’s not like Rafa reads any of this shite! Obviously i don’t have any insiders at Anfield but from looking at the matches recently, I think Rafa has lost the confidence of his players.
Gerrard has gone missing in the last 3/4 games and don’t give me the whole “hes not fully fit” line, bullshit – he’s fit, just playing shite
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 #463 |
Aitch
Posted on December 21, 2009 @ 5:36 am
So the new stick to beat Rafa with is… that this season is the same as the last season under Houllier?
For fucks sake, will you people think before you type?
Houllier would sit on the bench expressionless, vaguely stirring out into space…
Rafa is up in the technical area, telling people where to stand, giving them direction, always encouraging. (with the exception of those moments when we do something stupid and he appears to mouthing the Spanish equivalent of “What The Fuck?” “Are you fuckin Kidding Me?” “Lads, you’re fuckin killing me here!” … at least that’s what it looks like to me; my Spanish is a bit rusty.)
In Houllier’s last season in charge, Steven Gerrard, Danny Murphy and Michael Owen were walking into Ged’s office and handing him the team sheet for the game. (from Fowler’s biography) and it often led to disastrous results… coz they are young players… NOT coaches/managers…
Rafa might be sending out some unorthodox line-ups from time to time, or he may not be picking the players YOU would want… but at least HE is picking them and not leaving it up to his players.
Houllier had the full financial backing of the board…
Rafa’s been told to balance the books.
Houllier had just wasted a near record transfer fee on El Hadji Diouf and also purchased Salif Diao…
Rafa had to sell to buy Johnson, loan a kid out to get Kyrgiakos, and risk short-term success for long term gain with Aquilani.
Houllier had a pretty much fully fit squad for the entire season…
Rafa … so far… has NOT.
…There simply is NO comparison between Rafa’s tenure and Gerrard Houllier’s, other than a poor season.
The reasons for the poor results are as different as night and day.
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 #464 |
Puchong Red
Posted on December 21, 2009 @ 6:03 am
Ok, so far we’ve heard the opinions of the ‘Rafa Out Now’ brigade, the loyalists & those who aren’t anti-Rafa but think a change would be good.
Let’s just say Rafa does leave soon (am not advocating it), who would you like to see in charge?
Bearing in mind the limited resources available. Who do ye think can turn the ship around if it ISN’T Rafa?
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 #465 |
KeithSA
Posted on December 21, 2009 @ 9:08 am
Not very subtle Digger you have all but said that Rafa has lost the changing room. If you wanted to keep it private you would have said he gave no comment one way or the other. So as for not wanting to drop him in the shit or compromise your special relationship and pending marriage, it is exactly what you have done by hinting not to subtly that all is not right. I will say, a private conversation is one person’s opinion not the entire dressing room, but if what you have said is true, maybe FS can get more clarification, then we need to be really worry. There is no coming back from a loss of confidence in the manager no matter how good a manager he is, if we don’t believe and don’t pull together we are finished. So Digger if it is true ( I still don’t / hope think so) Rafa will have to go, his position is untenable and we will be on a slippery slide to mid table mediocrity. Our finical business model is based on CL qualification(yes for all the knee-jerkers unthinkable before Rafa); the loss of the dressing room will ensure we won’t make that. Even with CL qualification Rafa was given zip to strengthen over the last two seasons, without it we will become a selling club just to survive. You can draw up any wish list you want but only the likes of a Hughes, Maclaren and a young unproven managers and yes men will take on this job given the unrealistic expectations of our so called best fans in the world (booing included). Maureen and the likes of Hiddink would never in a million years risk their reputation in this snake pit without even anti venom as a back up (too costly), let alone the back stabbing. So Digger you have opened up a not so humble crises that if true could spell the end for us as a top club challenging for top honors. On the bright side for the CBC and friends they will now see all there whishes come true and the consequences of what that entails. From a personal point of view I hope its way off the mark and I do have the faith that Rafa is good enough of a manager to turn things around. Time will tell, starting with Wolves. (Keven Costner to direct)
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 #466 |
Diggerno.10
Posted on December 21, 2009 @ 10:58 am
Ever thought of giving Hollywood a shot along with Kevin Keith? I can see it now; ‘Armaggedon part 2 – The Sky is Falling’ adapted from the (over)dramatic fictional writings of Keithsa, directed by Kevin Costner….
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 #467 |
burgerman
Posted on December 21, 2009 @ 12:07 pm
Last season, the Reds won 16 games out of 29 when they conceded.This year the figure is 3 from 16.Who is Rafa’s Italian scout?.He sold him 2 duds with Dosser and Aquilani!.25 million down the swanny.Lose to Villa and it is adios Rafa.Hiddink is the best option.Cionceding 2 goals is now the norm.Another howler from Jono-3 in 1 week.
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 #468 |
norwayLFC76
Posted on December 21, 2009 @ 12:49 pm
I have been following this excellent blog for a long time and especially Fat Scouser’s comment’s because I value his opinions. But when you say that you thought that performance wasn’t that bad, the effort was there and Monster was wrongly sent off I disagree with you. Look at the first half against Arsenal, that’s effort, passion and heart. Not what was on display Saturday down south! Monster can have no complaint about the reed card, yes he there are probably a few whom wouldn’t have shown the red card but it was totally unnecessary going in the way he did and the arm he put in his face didn’t help. I have been supporting the manager and the players all the way but that performance on Saturday really tipped me over. I was on the kop last season when we beat scum 2-1 without Torres and Gerrard only for last 20 min or so. And I can’t belive how many steeps backwards we have gone since that. Aquliani seems far to light weighted for the Premier League for what I’ve seen. Hopefully he can prove me wrong. I play for my local team in the fourth tier of Norwegian football and I kid you not my close control is far superior to that of Kuyt. I don’t know what he has to do get dropped but I think you have to look at Kuyt and his form as a reason for Johnson’s last performances. Is it only me or does teams like Wigan and Pompey have technically more gifted players than us?? A fellow red said that this team is not fit to wear red, and I think he’s right. I really fear for the future. And it’s starting to have a really bad effect on my everyday life..
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 #469 |
Dizzy
Posted on December 21, 2009 @ 1:15 pm
Ahhh .. BurgerBaby is back .. and wid another one of his crappy nappies …
Aqualani’s a dud … cos he hasnt scored a couple of 30+ yards screamers from the few games he has featured in … Some close eye u got on football …
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 #470 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 21, 2009 @ 1:19 pm
Thanks for the input BM. Nice to see we can rely on you for your usual insightful and long thought over opinion. Shame Hiddink is probably on his way back to Chelsea as football director. Well actually not… I’d love to see Roman pull that one off. I can hear the implosion now.
As for Hollywood and creative writing… well, looks like someone’s broken the Family Circle Of Trust.
“I don’t want to comprimise the man.”
As Keith points out… you already have.
“He works for LFCtv.”
No he bloody doesn’t. And if he did, I don’t think they’d be sacking him for someone making insinuations on his behalf.
That’s the bad thing about this… this is how malicious rumours start and end up in the bloody media cos some lazy hack can’t be arsed doing his job and just reaches for the next Rafa whacking stick.
Patrick Barclay is at it this morning… should LFC sell Gerrard.
This has been the subject in quite a few forums for the past week. Just an idle chat between fans. Now it’s news in The Times of all places. And I’ve seen this sort of thing many many times.
People really need to stop this. We have enough problems as it is. I never said this, because I didn’t think it right to spread this sort of shit… As I said, on Saturday I nearly ended up in a fight. Well, it wouldn’t have been a fight. It would have been me getting a hiding from about 6 or 7 young fellas, except some older fellas backed me up.
The cunts in question thought it was funny to join in with the chants of “You’re getting sacked in the morning.” That was coming from the Pompey fans. I just don’t get this sort of “sense of humour.” But the thing was we was standing right behind Pepe Reina, and I mean right behind him and well within ear shot of the defence and all the players at set plays… which we actually defended well all day.
But do you think it makes the job any easier when that sort of shit is going on. Ask yourself how you would feel if you had thousands of work mates peering over your shoulder and some of them we’re constantly coming out with stuff like “you’re shite, oh here we go, another fucking give away,”
and the likes.
Well, sorry if I hurt some feelings in here no and again, but I’m not having it. In fact, I’m not sorry for anything. I think some of us need to have a long hard look at our selves and remember from where we came…
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 #471 |
burgerman
Posted on December 21, 2009 @ 1:22 pm
Aqui is a dud because he has done nothing to justify his crazy transfer fee.We need a midfielder like Pires who scored 14 prem goals in 1 season and cost half as much.Dizzy by name and Tosser by nature.Aqui is injured again.Are you Dizzy, dyslexic or stupid?.
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 #472 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 21, 2009 @ 1:27 pm
This should have been on the end of my last post, but the system’s acting up. It was said by a manager of LFC that found himself with a team of players that weren’t performing and no money to bring in replacements.
Dinosaur, my arse. That was what LFC was built on in the worst of times, and the same things still stand and work when applied and stuck to…
“Now I want one thing. I want loyalty. I don’t want anybody to be carrying stories about anybody else. If somebody comes to me with a story — I warn you about this — whoever you’re telling it about won’t be the one who goes. It’ll be you.
“You’ll go — out! I don’t care if you’ve been here 15 year. I want everybody to be loyal to each other. And to do everything you do for Liverpool Football Club. And we’ll all get together. And that will make strength . . . And maybe one day we’ll get players as well!”
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 #473 |
JackHill
Posted on December 21, 2009 @ 1:33 pm
Diggerno,thanks very much for your long comment,especially your conversation with Jan Molby.It was a pleasure to read (and with many of the correspondants).
Again,thanks all of you.
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 #474 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 21, 2009 @ 1:39 pm
#467: This team and manager is essentially the same outfit that you saw beat Man U.
Do you think it has turned to shit over night?
This sort of thing happens. You have presumably see it all before. Believe me, there has been far worse times to support LFC. It’s how you react to it that counts.
Watch the game over with a clear head and try to do away with the emotion. It’s hard to analyse things properly when your head is done in.
Dirk will not, and should not, be dropped while he is the one player on the pitch that isn’t let his head drop. We need others to do the same. We all know Gerrard has always sulked. It’s just the lad’s nature. And at 29, I don’t think it will ever change.
And how are players not to be affected by the sort of shit they are constantly bombarded with?
Every one of the players who has commented on the current situation has made it clear that they are fully behind Rafa, but why believe that when you can make yourself important by starting a rumour to the contrary…
Look at the last few comments on Aquilani. Along with lost the players, it’s the latest Rafa stick. But it was only last week that Gerrard said, he can’t wait for Aquilani to be fully fit and firing as the lad is a real player and his class will help pull the team out of this slump.
I’d say it’s mind boggling, but I can’t anymore as nothing I read from some people surprises me anymore.
It does sadden me though to see all the principles we are built on getting pissed on by these new “supporters.”
Name me one thing they bring to the club, except negativity.
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 #475 |
Diggerno.10
Posted on December 21, 2009 @ 1:53 pm
I havent compromised anyone. All I’ve done is intimated that all is not rosy in the garden. But then again Stevie Wonder could see that. Take it whatever ye like. Go from nought to 60 on the disaster scale in 3 seconds with apocalyptic scenarios. Or open your eyes. Nah fuck it, rip Digger…. And Fatty, Jan on Lfc.tv a couple of wks ago: ‘I cant defend the mans decisions anymore. The fans have a lot of questions but I just dont have any answers’. Interpret that whatever way you want.
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 #476 |
KeithSA
Posted on December 21, 2009 @ 2:04 pm
As for the new Aquilani is shit campaign I have a die hard Roma life supporter and not from just 2004, but born and bred in Rome die hard supporter who cried when Aquilani was sold. He said this kid walked on water and was the best thing since sliced bread. The same Aquilani that bossed the Cheslea midfield that contained Essien, Lampard, Deco and Ballack in the CL game against Roma and made them look pedestrian. A kid that was rushed back to soon after each injury because he was indispensable in a Roma side with out the finances to have decent cover (not to dissimilar to our situation). All that and our sage of sages Burgertwat has written him off as shite after one start and a subs appearance for 20 minutes. With fans like this we should be winning every game 5-0 week in week out. Obviously been reading up on that other sage of sage Gary Liniker, what next will he be spouting, Stan the Mans wisdom and assessment on how to fuck up a football career by banging girls in the car park instead of training.
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 #477 |
Dizzy
Posted on December 21, 2009 @ 2:20 pm
“Are you Dizzy, dyslexic or stupid?” …
No BurgerBaby …
I am just an LFC Fan who tries to use his brains just a lil bit more and never afraid of admitting where i am wrong!
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 #478 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 21, 2009 @ 2:22 pm
Jan might do the odd appearance on LFCtv, but he doesn’t work for them. And seeing it’s sort of like the polit bureau of footy, it’s quite honest in it’s evaluations and opinions. Of course, it doesn’t spout tabloid like shite, and it doesn’t come down on the owners as hard as it should. But it doesn’t just toe the party line. Full time presenters and guests often air concerns.
And of course all fans, have a right to be concerned. I am. And I’ve made that plain, but you won’t solve anything by just pulling the plug on the current regime.
The only way out of this is hard graft, solidarity and the sort of loyalty to each other and the cause as Shankly spoke about on his arrival as I qouted in that previous post.
Otherwise you make the job untenable for incumbent and that is that… end of story.
But do you really want the baying mob with their great solutions such as bring in Hiddink to win… even though we would never get Hiddink and he is currently in talks with his Russian mate to return to Chelsea as director of football?
Something I’d love to see, Hiddink and Ancelotti in open warfare over team matters.
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 #479 |
liquic
Posted on December 21, 2009 @ 3:16 pm
Dizzy,
burgerman is a Arse supporter who somehow find some time to talk shit in this blog. you can choose to ignore him.
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 #480 |
norwayLFC76
Posted on December 21, 2009 @ 3:59 pm
Fat scouser. I have been supporting Liverpool since 1992 and has been playing semi-pro football in Norway for many years under different managers so I think I know a bit about football and even if I’m not from Liverpool I consider my self a passionate fan and have watched every game with no exception the last 3 years. So even if my first post in a long time comes in the middle of our worst period in ages. I’m defiantly no post Istanbul fan. I don’t think there are any top class managers out there whom would take the job after Rafa at this moment in time. But why are the player’s shite now compared to last year? We had the same problems back then. I’m afraid I se signs of a team who has lost fait in their manager. I have done that myself in my playing time and you can se that on the body language and the fighting spirit of the players. Don’t tell me the effort against Pompey was like the one against Utd and Arsenal first half? Will watch the game again but I’m pretty sure my feeling is the same. The few times our players went at it was because they was pissed of because of our teams shortcomings. The time might have come for Rafa to call it a day not because he’s suddenly a bad manager but you se the all the time in football that a team from one season to the next just loose the plot and cant get back on track. I would like nothing more than Rafa to turn this around because he’s given me my best moments as a Liverpool supporter. But at this moment in time we are on the brink of collapse and a new manager can help us save this season.
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 #481 |
KeithSA
Posted on December 21, 2009 @ 4:48 pm
Norway I have been supporting LFC since the 60’s and in all that time I have yet to see a season to compare to this one. Firstly this is the same team that finished second last year just short of winning the ultimate prize, minus Alonso, Sammie and Arbelloa but with the added addition of Johnson and Aquilani and the rapidly maturing Lucas, Insua and Ngog. They have not become shite overnight, the Manager has not lost the plot overnight and changing anything at this stage of the season will just see us spiral down even further. Given the very dubious option that a remotely qualified and decent manager would under the present circumstances accept the job at Liverpool with a zero chance of getting anything remotely resembling a budget apart for the spend what you bring in, the same principles that Rafa has operated under for the last two years, we will get a yes man or a second rate manager that will make matters worse.
This team is half fit with an injury list at any given time amounting to 11 first team squad members. Injured players are coming back trying to regain fitness and are picking up further injuries. We cannot field a settle combination at the back or anywhere for that matter and the players that are fit are knackered from playing every game, trying to pick up the slack. There can be no question what so ever that Gerrard is far from peak form or fitness, Torres has just come back and lacks any sort of sharpness that can only come from game time on the filed and that goes for any number of payers like Johnson, Benny, Agger and Aurlleo. We still have Reira, Babel, El Zhar, Degen, Kelly and Aquaman who picked up a slight knock out injured. We do not have the luxury or the financial resources to have a squad as deep and strong as Chelsea, but you take Drogba, Lampard, Essien, Anelka, Carvalleo and Cole out for their team and I think you will find that it will affect them let alone us with a thin squad. You just have to look what happened to the Manc against Fulham to realize when certain players don’t play the team is affected.
Some of the old guard in here would also call for Rafa’s head in an instant if we thought in any way it would help the team and that the problem lies at his door but it does not and if fans cannot see that then quite frankly blaming him for wonder strikes, defenders errors, missed chances and beach ball incidents plus injuries that equate to 17 different defensive combinations is moronic at best. The only way we will get out of it is if the team knuckles down and does the hard yards and get dirty, giving it there all. The same should go for the fans if they really care about Liverpool because the likes of Fat Sam as our manager will not change our fortunes. The calling for his head and getting on the players backs will only make matters worse. A player is far more likely to run through a wall when he is supported and cheered than when he is being booed and ridiculed.
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 #482 |
ignorant_red
Posted on December 21, 2009 @ 5:08 pm
Loyalty, another value that is going down the drain, followed by respect,trust and faith.
I know very little of football management, in fact the only football i play is with friends and the occasional friendly. So i dont know how things on the field can be corrected tactically, but i do know that the players have to show their true characters now and fight. Fight for themselves, fight for the man who has faith in them, fight for supporters (even when some has no faith in them)
Kuyt is a fighter, i hope the other players follow his never say die attitude.
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 #483 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 21, 2009 @ 5:39 pm
Nirway, but that’s the thing though mate… where do we go from here?
As you say, Rafa has given your best moments as an LFC supporter. Well, even though I’m getting on a bit now, he’s also done the same for me. Let’s face, it we’ve been through some rotten times over the last 20 years.
Watch the Pompey game again. We did try, but yes you’re right… the performance isn’t there. We just can’t get that high tempo pressing game going. It will come. I know that simply because we have done it in the past, and I have also played the game to a pretty decent level for many years, and coached. I have my badges. The old UEFA B. I’m too fat and old to upgradethem now, but I’m not senile. I still remember all I learnt… which frankly isn’t one iota of what Rafa knows.
And that’s the point… whenever someone calls for Rafa’s head, I ask them for a solution. I have yet to hear one. But if you want to know about life after Rafa, you only need to ask Valencia fan’s. They would welcome him back with open arms tomorrow.
I know things are dire, but this is the time that seperates the wheat from the chaff. You either lose your head like all around you, or you keep it, roll your sleeves up and fight your way out of it. That’s true in all walks of life. And I don’t think we have the sort of men that will just crumble.
They are waivering, there’s no denying that. But they will come out of it. They’re too good not to.
And the fact is… we really have no choice but to fight on. There really isn’t an alternative at the moment.
But here’s the thing that does me in…
Too many fans are falling for it and showing no spirit at all. That is not the Liverpool Way.
You seem to take my answer to you as a dig, but it wasn’t. Look at it again… weird how we see things differently with a cool head.
What I said to you was, you have seen far worse situations turned around. Istanbul being the daddy of them all, but there’s plenty of other examples. And that is what is called for now.
I wish sacking Rafa would magically change things. I would do it without a second thought. And although, I can’t see the future, I can only see things getting far worse if we do away with the one man that is really fighting on our behalf.
One of the new catch phrases in football is… it’s a results based business.
Sadly, that is not true. If it were Rafa’s position wouldn’t be even in question. But the truth is, football is now an over hyped, kneejerk, opinion based business. And that, and our shite fans falling for it, is what will lose us the best manager we have had since Paisley and could very well see us facing the same fate as Corinthians.
We need fellas like you to stay strong. If it doesn’t turn around, or Rafa’s job becomes untenable for him due to factors like losing the players and fans, then it will become very apparent that it’s time for him to go.
But, when you consider all fact and take in all the circumstances, would you really like to take that gamble now?
I don’t. It’s far more risky than one shit season. All coaches have them, and some have built enough and had enough success to deserve a break. Rafa, after getting this club that was crumbling before he arrived, to where it is, is certainly one of them.
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 #484 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 21, 2009 @ 8:33 pm
A mate of mine’s just popped up at the house out of the blue, the way they do around Crimbo. I was dead happy to see him as I haven’t seen him for ages. I’m going to spell this wrong, as it’s normally written in the Gaelic, but he’s from (Well pronounced) Charlaville in Cork. He’s in his 60′s and I’ve known him for, ohh I don’t know, 30 odd years.
Sound lad. Good old friend. Couldn’t even have a drink with the fella as he can’t do it anymore. But it was lovely to see him and we got round to talking about the footy. He’s a red. He used to live in Liverpool and he’s a good supporter. Still gets to the odd match, and he’s not too well and has 19 grandkids. No wonder he’s knackered.
Anyway, we both moaned about what is happening to our support nowadays and how it could oust Rafa. And a couple of thoughts occured to me… 99.99% of the old hands that I know all feel this way. We can’t all be wrong.
And why, do some fans think these lads don’t want to play for him, when every statement made by the players – even Babel lately – praises Rafa for making them into better players?
There’s not one iota of proof for this theory/rumour. There’s plenty to contradict it though.
Granted, you can see that the players aren’t up to speed and that heads have dropped. This though is normal in circumstances like ours. Imagine going into work everyday, put in as much as effort as you can, and still things are turning to shite. Your head would drop an all.
But that doesn’t mean they don’t want to play for their boss, and why are so many fans jumping to this conclusion now?
Well, let’s face it, there’s only one answer… The media and it’s constant sniping.
Still, it’s a very worrying development. I thought they’d get him through mockery. But this brain washing will work much quicker, and if this slump isn’t stopped soon, I’ll soon be fearing the worse.
Bad times.
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 #485 |
bigbry
Posted on December 21, 2009 @ 9:44 pm
Evening Chaps,
Hard being a Liverpool fan at present isnt it.
I deliberately dont form an opinion after a game like that because passions are high, and opinions are formed without clarity.
There are numerous people here suggesting that Rafa has lost the dressing room. I disagree, how can the same set of players who demolished Real Madrid and Man U only last season suddenly begin to doubt the ability of their manager? especially after just missing out on the holy grail. It makes no sense.
Confidence is the biggest factor in any sport, if youve got it in abundance then your world beaters, lose it and you crawl into a shell, fail to take an individual and collective responsibility, and make excuses, blaming everyone and everything.
At present I think the players are having a pity party. They begin the game without confidence and because they are too scared of losing the game, they dont possess the desire and more importantly the belief to win it. If two or three players have a lack of confidence then thats serious, a full team and youve got a nightmare scenario.
The fans play a huge part in this aswell. Tension in the stands reaches the players and they get nervous. Thats why it is vital for the team that the supporters fully support the team.
The players have to play their way out. They simply have to start off positively and try and get that first goal. If that comes then try to get a second and kill a game off, its that simple. Football is a simple game made complicated by the people who play it. They simply have to believe in the abilities they have, and it will come good. The problem is they doubt their own abilities and also doubt the player they are about to pass to. How can you possibly win a game like that.
Thats why I am still supporting Rafa, he is taking the pressure of the players, and stating his belief in their quality at every press conference.
When was the last time you heard Rafa slating the players in public?
That said I am concerned, Why? because if results dont pick up then I am sure he will be on his way, and at present when I think of alternatives I see only a downward spiral.
Come on Rafa, pull us through.
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 #486 |
bigbry
Posted on December 21, 2009 @ 9:48 pm
FS Ive done it again mate,
I type out a post, submit it scroll through the post ive missed and lo and behold youve just posted one saying the same thing.
People will think Im stalking you
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 #487 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 22, 2009 @ 8:57 am
Well let’s face it Bry, we can hardly claim it’s great minds thinking alike…
It’s an absolute none brainer – Benitez goes we are in deep shit.
In fact, all that baffles me about this is the fact, that some of our own fans don’t see this.
But there again, read the opinions of those who want him out and it’s not so hard to understand.
Since this all started, I’ve pointed out to them how long it takes to build a club. This is Shankly’s 50th year. I’ve told them time and time again how The Great Man made this club what it is.
I’ve shown them the similarities between the two periods in our history and how loyalty and solidarity – the Liverpool Way and the Holy Trinity of manager, players and fans – built our club into a monster, though it really never had the right to be one.
I’ve showed them exactly what happened at Leeds, using pure facts and a time line of how it all unravelled. I’ve shown them how other monster clubs have fallen apart the past, and I’ve showed them how periously close we are to the same circumstances.
I’ve explained to them exactly what our “Custodians” have done to their other sporting franchises. I’ve showed them the plans they have for our club… The blueprint is there, Corinthians.
And it hasn’t just been me. People in here have spent months of their time and effort in trying to teach them.
In fact, even the blogs themselves over the past few months have been written telling them, pleading with them, and trying to educate them. They never learn…. “Great blog, Gerry… Sack Rafa.”
So, I’ve asked them for a plan, a solution to our current woes, and asked them time and time again.
And for months I’ve asked them what they think will happen to this club should Rafa go.
So far they have came up with…
Hire Hiddink, even though he’s currently in talks with Roman Abramovich about coming back to Chelsea as a director of football.
Play Nemeth, even though he’s out on loan with Olympiacos, as part of the deal that Rafa had to beg for to bring us Kyriagos when we had no Centre Backs.
Get Henrik Larson, even though the lad can barely walk nowadays due to all the horrific injuries he suffered catching up with him as he’s approaching his forties.
And I could go on, but what’s the point in that. They’ll never learn, and they won’t be satisfied until they aid the British media in their agenda to remove the one man that is keeping this club from falling into footballing oblivion.
And to be honest, it’s not just Rafa they will drive out…
Myself and thousands like me, who where there from the start and helped make this club what it is, will walk away and leave it to the likes of them because sacking Rafa will finally be the death of all this club stood for and was built on – the final end of the Liverpool Way.
And believe me that’s not just said for effect. It’s fact.
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 #488 |
norwayLFC76
Posted on December 22, 2009 @ 9:40 am
Thanks to both Fat Scouse and KeithSA for you’re calm reflections on our situation. I’m starting to feel a bit more optimistic and looking forward to Boxing Day.
This is the funny part about football, there’s always a new game, a new chance to turn things around. I hope you guys get the chance to say “ I told you so” but I’m not quit sure. And yes players, managers and teams can loose the plot and consequently the faith. Individuals can stop ticking as a unit for a number of reasons and sometimes the only way to get things back on track is to shake tings up a bit. And at a football club that often means the manager has to go. It might not be fair but you can’t sack 20 odd players. It’s the nature of the game. Who can or will eventually succeed Rafa is not easy and personally I hope that question only pops up when he’s way up in his seventies. But the fact remains we are a club in relegation form and as it stands it does not seem like it’s gone be a big improvement anytime soon. The next four games are huge with both Spurs and Villa coming up. Yesterday I saw the game again and it wasn’t all that bad I give you that. But still I think that was a performance lacking in all apartments. We had all the possession the first 30 min but we totally lack any kind of penetration and that midfield is so totally in lack of creativity that it id frightening. And that is not down to lack of form, those players aren’t any better. I still don’t think the level of commitment and heart were nowhere near good enough. And that’s something that’s not down to form or fitness, that’s something you really need to show when things are like it’s on this moment in time. I don’t expect us to go out and blow Wolves of the field with fantastic football. But I expect us to roll up our sleeves and hunt them down chasseing them all over the pitch especially from the kick of to get the fans going.
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 #489 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 22, 2009 @ 10:02 am
Amazing what a clear head does, isn’t it mate?
And a bit of confidence can have a great effect an all. I asmit, mines not great going into the Wolves game… I hate these sort of games. I’d much rather be facing Villa or Tottenham, even Chelsea, Arsenal… or of course the Mancs. I wish we could play them every week, with the fans and players all up for it we’d walk the league.
The thing is, idiots look at the table and think we should just roll over the likes of Wolves. But I’m telling you now… That shithouse McCarthy will have them primed and raring to go. It will be them chasing and harrying us. They will have all 11 players behind the ball. They are fit, rested and big strong lads. They will crowd out our players, and kick lumps out of them.
The crowd will start getting edgy if we aren’t ahead inside 15 minutes. It will transmit to the players, and the nerves will start to show again.
We will be defending high up the pitch, and they will have runners just waiting to spring the trap. If we go one down, heads will drop and we probably won’t be able to force our way back in to it.
Having said all that, the fight back has to start somewhere. Let’s hope it’s this one.
But honest mate, mark my words, if this doesn’t turn around soon and the idiots get thier way we will plunge like a lead balloon.
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 #490 |
bigbry
Posted on December 22, 2009 @ 10:15 am
FS, My advice – Pity them
Anyone who bases their opinions on newspaper columns, talksport, sky or phone ins have either never been to Anfield or are incapable of forming their own opinions.
I am not saying if you want Rafa to go then you are stupid. Far from. I have a lot of friends who think Rafa should go, and tell me their reasons why. Then I respect their opinion, disagree with it and tell them the reasons why. (once again I am not saying I am right after all I am a fire fighter not a premiership football manager)However just the other day I had a disagreement with a chap who told me that the only reason we won in Istanbul is that Rafa inherited a great team. I suggested that this chap go through the team and enlighten me as to who exactly was great, lo and behold he couldnt name half of the team. When we got to Djimi Traore he reversed his decision and agreed he must have something about him.
After that same conversation someone told me he had spent 200 million, again I asked him to tell me which players were brought in, he read a list out highlighting players which amounted to about 100 million, I then destroyed his argument when I discussed with him that the majority were sold for a nice profit, and the rest were in the first team, worth far more than when they were first bought.
If I can do it why cant everybody else, as I am the first to admit that I am not the sharpest tool in the box.
I put it all down to not enough positive influence and too much negative influence.
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 #491 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 22, 2009 @ 1:44 pm
Bry, nothing daft about you lad. I’m no mensa candidate either. But I know when I’m being mugged off by the likes of Stan Collymoore.
And that’s the point, there is a constant bombardment of negatives and just plain lies. It’s an agenda, and make no bones about it, it’s designed to see us fall. But the fools amongst can’t see that, nevermind take some time to look for themselves and see the real facts.
Take this one for instance… the press/media constantly knock Rafa for personal reasons. Calling him stubborn, arrogant and just making out he’s a plain horrible bloke. Some of our fans actually believe this and repeat it, yet what do they know about him as a person?
From all I have seen the man is a very honourable character. He’s a decent family man of very high integrity and honesty.
He never shirks anything and he never refuses to answer the press/media, or face his critics. He constantly defends the players to the hilt, taking all the flak for them and he praises us fans far above what most of us deserve.
When I have seen him talking on TV in a relaxed mood to someone who isn’t out to get him, he strikes me as a thoroughly decent fella, with a good sense of humour. He actually comes out with some brilliant funny lines, that are either not understood, ignored or turned on their head.
He has never flinched though, fighting every battle on our behalf inside and outside the club.
Nevermind taking on this mountain of a job with no resources and the dispicable British media. He’s took on Parry and Moores. He’s took on Gillette and Hicks. He’s took on the Tramp and the whole of the league manager’s association. He’s took on the FA, FIFA, UEFA, and he’s never lost a battle yet.
He was hoodwinked into taking the job in the first place – being made to believe all was rosey. He was treated abysmally from the moment he arrived. Within no time the rug had been pulled out from under his feet, and he was left with the 2 clowns in charge.
He has been basically hamstrung by them, and belittled in the media. In fact, he has been savaged from day one by them bastards and it is still picking up steam. And he’s been stabbed in the back by some of our so called own. “Supporters,” my arse.
Despite all this though, he has fought on, and amazingly had great success while doing so. Why has he done all this… well, I only have one thing to go on. What he has stated himself on many occasions… He loves the club, the fans and the city.
Most arseholes who call for his head will never see the sun that sets on Liverpool nevermind the city itself. I’ve explained in here time and again, that Liverpool is only a small city, with a population under a million and it doesn’t have the bright lights and attractions of London.
Put it this way, even if everything was right at the club, we would still have trouble attracting some big time Champagne Charlie to the place.
Which is fine by me. We don’t want nor need them. We’ve never tolerated them on the pitch or in the bootroom. And you can stick your Mourhino right up your arse. If that egotistical knob ever arrived, that would definetely be the day, I would definetely walk away and there’d be thousands like me.
Liverpool may be small, but historically it has always punched way above it’s weight. It’s a tough place, with tough, but warm and funny, down to earth, decent working class people. Why do you think Shankly fell in love with the place… Well, he said it often enough. And it was for the exact same reason’s Rafa did… they were made for each other, and he wanted to make the people happy.
I’ve often tried to educate people overseas on how Scousers are treated here in their own bloody country… no political correctness when it comes to us. We still get it. But maybe this will open a few eyes… only going as far back as the early 80′s our own Prime Minister, Margaret bloody Thatcher, sent the troops into the city, forcibly took over City Hall and local government, and our legally elected council members where put into jail for carrying out the mandate the people of the city had elected them to carry out. And that’s not the only time the government attacked us and the troops took over.
You might think what has that got to do with football? Well, we aren’t some poor downtrodden people. I would never suggest such a thing. But throughout all the hard times we have had, we always had one thing to fall back on… our pride and our passion – our bloody football.
And yes, it’s been too long but Liverpool is still the most succesful footballing city in England, having won more trophies – through Everton and Liverpool – than any other city in the country. And, even when things were at their worst, it was always something we had above everyone else.
And the fact is, despite a set back this season, Rafa has done a fantastic job here. In fact, it’s bloody amazing how he has turned us around and what he has achieved under such circumstances. And after years in the doldrums he finally gave us back some pride.
And like I’ve been saying, if he can do all that for us and the players… well, I think it only right, we give him a little of it back especially while the going is hard and he could do with some support against the vultures that are circling around him.
And that isn’t some misguided sentimental loyalty. That is down to one thing… the results and success the man has brought us.
But will the gobshites amongst stop and look at facts…
Where we was before Rafa, what we have achieved since he arrived, where he is trying to take us, the circumstances he is working under, the little resources he has?
…will they fuck.
They’ll just scream like little girls for his head because they are annoyed when we don’t win, and win like Brazil circa 1970, because their glory hunting Manc/Chav friends are going to take the piss out of them in work on Monday morning.
So, I think that’s my last word on it for sometime for now. I’m getting fed up and tired of trying to educate morons. But I did feel like writing that, even though I know it will be ignored or not understood by the gobshites, and even mocked by some.
I couldn’t give a fuck about that. I just wish some of them would fuck off… they really aren’t welcome. How could they be when they bring absolutely nothing with them except demands, and they just take when something is given, but moan, whinge and try to destroy when it’s not.
Liverpool supporters, my arse.
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 #492 |
ldhawan
Posted on December 22, 2009 @ 2:41 pm
Nice comment… keep em coming.
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 #493 |
Val
Posted on December 22, 2009 @ 2:49 pm
Well said FS. I’ve only been to Liverpool twice, once for a match when we beat Portsmouth 3-0 and the second time was a surprise weekend away with the ex and both trips justified my reasons to follow LFC. I love the city, the people and the general good atmosphere in the city as a whole! From bus drivers to bar staff, everyone was A1. Reminds me a lot of my home city of Cork, from funny accents to a sence of separation/independance to the rest of our respective countries. We have an overwhelming desire to support our own no matter what and sadly these so called supporters just don’t seem to get it really!
I might even get slated for stating I’ve only been to Liverpool twice but believe me if I had the funds I’d be at every game!
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 #494 |
steve the red
Posted on December 22, 2009 @ 3:16 pm
No one’s gonna slate you for that Val. The last time I saw the Reds play was in a 2-0 defeat at Fulham in October 2005. An abject display from LFC and my two sons were watching them for the first time.
I would love to take them to see the team play at Anfield. Maybe one day.
In my younger days I used to travel to Anfield alot to watch games – much easier for me then, I had no real responsibilities and you could pay on the gate. Things have changed big time on both fronts!
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 #495 |
steve the red
Posted on December 22, 2009 @ 3:26 pm
One thing’s for sure FS. The Press/Media can have a go at Rafa about the team all they like, but they will never have anything on him in his personal life, of that I’m sure.
A very serious devoted Husband and Father would describe him perfectly, and as you say all reports suggest that he is squeaky clean which I would have guessed anyway just by looking at his way of expressing himself and his personality. A totally respectable guy who you could compare to the likes of Kenny Dalglish in that respect.
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 #496 |
Arthur G. Posis
Posted on December 22, 2009 @ 5:00 pm
FS – your loyalty and knowledge of all things Liverpool FC are certainly admirable but there is something I would like to ask you. At what point would you say to yourself “Ok I think Rafa is not the best man for this job?” Do you not think that despite injuries and a lack of budget we should be able to qualify for the Champions League?
I mean lets just say we get knocked out of the F.A. Cup at Reading and lose to Aston Villa – is there not an argument to say that another manager could come in – steady the ship – get the lads playing again and attempt to salvage something from this wreck of a season?
There really is no basis (in my eyes) when you say Liverpool is finished if we lose Rafa? You may have respect for the man and have admired his achievements but as far as I’m concerned no manager is bigger than the club – why would Rafa be any different?
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 #497 |
red4life
Posted on December 22, 2009 @ 5:40 pm
I think this is the first disappointing season we have had under Rafa and thats with circumstances that you couldnt see beforehand. But Rafa has slowly but surely been making us better each season so I think he is entitled to one bad season. Besides, the season isnt over and who can say whether or not we end on fourth place or better. I think we will.
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 #498 |
steve the red
Posted on December 22, 2009 @ 5:55 pm
Who knows what will come of this season? At the moment things are very bad and results are poor with the team showing no real consistency. Rafa still has the backing of most of the support (I beleve) and while this is the case I still think he will keep his job.
I think in any case, unless the bulk of the support rallied and protested for his departure I think he will be given to the end of this season. I still think things can be turned around but if we don’t make the top 4 (no guarantee’s!) I fear it will be the end for Rafa.
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 #499 |
Arthur G. Posis
Posted on December 22, 2009 @ 6:03 pm
Don’t get me wrong I’d rather keep Rafa – get 4th and hopefully be given some money in the pre-season. But my worry is that we don’t look capable of getting 4th the way we’re currently playing and pretty soon it’ll be too late to get anything back on track. Failure to qualify for CL will be a disaster for us – it’ll affect who we can bring into the club and it also may leave us vulnerable to losing some of our top current talent. That’s how serious the situation is..and I don’t think anyone right knows if Rafa can get us back on track in time!
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 #500 |
steve the red
Posted on December 22, 2009 @ 6:22 pm
Just supposing Rafa wasn’t LFC manager next season, who do you think would/should take his place?
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 #501 |
Aitch
Posted on December 22, 2009 @ 6:45 pm
Arthur, I can’t speak for FS, but I can tell you why I agree with him.
Obviously, no one can say with any certainty what will happen… but…
We’ve gotten progressively better under Rafa. The evidence is there for all to ignore.
Number 5 and a 2nd CL final that was only narrowly lost to a very good AC Milan side.
Exciting runs to semi-finals that were only narrowly lost. And an FA Cup.
But we haven’t progressed in the league, will be the response.
But we have indeed, progressed in terms of our Prem League finishes. And if you really look hard at those finishes, we were actually not as far off as some would have you believe.
All this while not being able to buy his first choices, yet being lambasted for assembling a “poor squad” by the same people who rejoice in how good that squad was when beating Juve, Barca, Milan, Chelsea and trouncing the likes of United and Real Madrid.
There is a time when you cut your losses and there is a time to hold fast. Now is not the time to cut our losses.
If we were in our current league position, due to our recent results… with a FIT team… I’m talking about everyone on form, a settled back 4, SG and Torres playing every week… then sure… you’d have to question what was wrong and why we are in that position… and you’d have to be looking at the Manager.
… but that is not our current reality.
Steven Gerrard has been on the pitch for the last half-dozen games, but that’s about as much as you can really say about his being there. That’s not meant as a broadside of our Captain, but honestly. Some would suggest even a half-fit SG is better than no SG… and his performances in the past may have proven that… But that simply hasn’t been the case this season.
I don’t want to single him out, but he’s the best example to use. You could say the same or similar for most of the first 11.
Let’s just take right back as another example.
People are starting to trot out (read on several forums recently) the ludicrous “we should never have paid that for Johnson, when we had Arbeloa and needed a striker.”
This ignores the fact that Arbeloa was gone. He wanted to go back to Spain… Nothing to do with disliking Rafa. He wanted to go home.
In his first few games Johnson was terrific… defending well, getting forward… scoring and creating goals, or goal scoring opportunities… then he got injured.
His replacement should have been Deggen… a full Swiss International. But this guy has been a worse signing than Vegard Heggem (note to Rafa: do not buy any players with 2 Gs in the middle of their name. Two rr’s for sure, but no G’s please J )
Now Veggie was fantastic in his first season. Got forward, created goal scoring chances and even scored one, or two himself…. Then he got injured… and that was it… he just could never recover. This happens sometimes and there is simply no predicting it.
So we called on Kelly… our 4th choice right back… since our 3rd choice right back was also injured… and Kelly did fantastic in his few games… I’d have loved to see him get a few more and he probably would have… but he also picked up an injury.
So that’s all 4 right backs injured. Now an otherwise settled back 4 might survive that… but when you consider Agger’s thigh strain, then back, Skrtle’s broken jaw and concussion. JC’s concussion, Hyypia’s departure, Kyrgiakos fitting into a new team AND the pace of the Prem and Insua flying halfway round the world to try to save Argentina’s World Cup hopes…. Well you can draw only one conclusion…
…Zonal defending doesn’t work and Rafa can’t man-manage.
If it wasn’t so obscenely ignorant… it would be comical.
Now do what I just did for the defense, for the midfield and the forward positions.
The only way any “new” manager suddenly has everyone fit and firing on all cylinders, is if he’s Harry Potter!
Now yes, you do have to concede the possibility that a new manager might, slowly stem the tide and turn things around, but then come Summer, who stays and who leaves on the playing side… at a club who has to sell to buy?
Does Torres stay or go? Does Pepe?
Does SG give another manager time to build his own team, or does he take a big payday in the Spanish sunshine?
A new manager given no funds… might be forced to sell SG and FT … in order to build “his own” team.
I think people should be careful what they wish for.
Maybe we need to finish mid-table this season… maybe, just maybe that is what is required… to write off this bizarre alternate reality of a season we are currently faced with… maybe us, Scum, the Arse… all finish outside the “top 4” and the Prem is dealt a head spinning blow…. It could happen.
Now is the time to stand fast, hold your head up high, shout from the rooftops that “I am a Liverpudlian and I come from the Spion Kop”
Stand fast, hold our ground and fall where we stand.
If we fall, then so be it… let Rafa reshuffle the pack a bit in the summer and see if he can give it a go.
Then and only then, can we honestly judge.
… or… demand instant success… like they did at Newcastle, like they did at Leeds…
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 #502 |
Aitch
Posted on December 22, 2009 @ 6:54 pm
Steve, people will have varied opinions, but mine is…
… the only quality manager of the level we’d need, who isn’t tied to a long term contract right now is Hiddink.
Anyone else would be taking a step back.
Just remember what happened to the Chavs.
Grant took them to a CL final, which they only lost on pens and that only coz Terry slipped, and a 2nd place finish …
Would they have kicked on?
We’ll never know….
What we do know is they canned the man, brought in Phil Scolari and ended up a complete and total mess, requiring a 3rd change midseason.
Sereiously… be careful what you wish for.
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 #503 |
somnath07in
Posted on December 22, 2009 @ 7:01 pm
The players need to perform. We start winning matches and all these talks will go away.I am not too bothered about Rafa staying or not.
Given what i read here from some senior fans,Tom Hicks and Gillet will have to turn beggars to compensate Rafa in case of sacking. So for the time being Rafa is not going anywhere.
Lets talk about next match.Whom does he play in midfield? I want Gerrard and lucas(Given Aqua injured). Babel/Ngog and Torres upfront. Go with a 4-4-2 and concentrate on outscoring the opposition. We are letting in goals(Bad Luck,Poor Defending watever)and its high time we start getting 3 points. So assuming we will continue to have poor luck while defending,let us atleast aim to score more.
@Diggerno: Interesting read.
Rafa probably is the best man to manage LFC at present but being such a top club we need to have certain benchmarks. I dont want to sound foolish here but observe what Real Madrid does. Yes they have money,yes they are insance but onething which they dont compromise is Real going into a long barren run like ours. So like it or not..in between all the hysterical mangerial changes they have managed to hold on to their benchmarks.So lets not get mixed up between the ambitions and standards of the club and Rafa Benitez-The Master tactician.
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 #504 |
somnath07in
Posted on December 22, 2009 @ 7:11 pm
Honestly… The situation now is like..If you got the power of money,you can dream of winning titles. This season the same applies for a Top 4 finsih too.
With a heavy heart i am lowering my expectation to 6th place finish this season. Thats what i feel and u guys can abuse me as much as you want for that
We need the Oil Sheiks! Someone please find one billionaire hiding somewhere in the middle east.
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 #505 |
somnath07in
Posted on December 22, 2009 @ 7:14 pm
I want to kick those two American bastards. I just feel so sick that in a season where ManUtd,Chelsea are struggling we are not able totake advantage of it
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 #506 |
bigbry
Posted on December 22, 2009 @ 7:15 pm
Arthur your argument is an eloquent and valid one.
Whilst I cant answer for fat scouse my answer would be as follows.
You say if we went out of the FA cup against Reading and lost to Villa who would come in to steady the ship. My answer would be if we lost those two games and got rid of Rafa, a new manager would come in and far from steady the ship they would go down with it.
From where I stand it is simple. My opinion is that Rafa is one of the handful of top class managers around (just look at his record in Europe and the opinions of fellow managers to establish why I reached this conclusion). You could say in the same bracket as Hiddink, Wenger, Guardiola, Rijkaard, Ancelotti,Capello and Mourinho (although I would argue better than in the majority of cases). To attract a manager of a similar standard you would need to offer a substantial budget as a lot of those names come with big egos and if there is a chance of failure they wouldnt even contemplate it, so in my estimation that would rule out everyone bar Hiddink, Wenger and Capello. As FS alluded to in an earlier post Hiddink could be taking up a retirement post after the World Cup, Wenger will only leave Arsenal for a club overseas and I think Capello is the type of man to honour a contract. So who does that leave. Fair enough there are people out there who would come in with some new ideas and perhaps they would fix things short term, but I am not convinced that another 5 year plan from a different manager is whats required right now.
I certainly arent going to say that nobody else could come in and make a difference because that would be foolish.
If the decision was mine then give Rafa the money it would have cost for a new manager, let him spend it on some new players and get behind the team.
And I after say I agree with Fat Scouse 100%. Mourinho would be horrendous for this club. He epitomises everything thats bad with football, and after 3 seasons in the premiership where he displayed his lack of class for all to see, it would break my heart to see him manage our club, and it may well be the one thing that would see me walk away from fooball and start taking up cross stitch.
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 #507 |
somnath07in
Posted on December 22, 2009 @ 7:18 pm
I want to ask the owners of ManCiteh one question:What on earth they were thinking when they bought Man citeh?
Why they didnt think of us? Even with our debts we would have been able to give better returns to their investments.
Dumb people really
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 #508 |
Aitch
Posted on December 22, 2009 @ 7:42 pm
somnath, I don’t necessarily have a problem with you “lowering your expectations to 6th” … but some will… be careful about how you express that.
It’s a question of whether you see our current form and think we’ll continue to slide… or whether you think we’ll arrest that slide and go on a run.
In all honesty, you could say that current evidence suggests we won’t finish above 6th.
But you also have to accept that the way this season’s results have gone … for all teams… suggests many a lifeline for our team, if we can just find our way out of the current mire and string a few results together.
Some would have you believe that Rafa has destroyed the players confidence… others like myself would tell you I’ve been there and it is just a case of circumstances… shit does sometimes happen and this time around it has happened to us.
There’s no easy way out of it. Not for Rafa and not for the Players. (well actually there is for Rafa, he could say fuck you to the naysayers and walk, but he’s too big a man for that and is genuine, I believe, when he talks of his connection to the fans and the (Liverpool Way”)
When you are on a team that is playing like this. When you yourself are trying every trick in your book and nothing works. When your simple 10 yard game escapes you, when your pinpoint 40-50 yard passes, more resemble punt-n-run efforts, when you have a shot that can regularly test keepers, but you now find ending up in row Z instead … and when that coincides with all your teammates suffering the same abandonment of their usual skills….
…. It isn’t a pat on the back, or arm around the shoulder, or rocket up the backside, or boot kicked in your face, or hair-dryer treatment, or even a new manager with new ideas that suddenly causes you to find your feet again….
its simply time …and playing …and somehow, from somewhere… finding your groove again….
And no manager… not Rafa… not Gus… not Fergie… not King Kenny… not Shankly himself… can teach you how/where to find it… you just have to play through it and find it yourself and when you do find it… you seriously shake your head and wonder “what the fuck was all that about”
Its fine suggesting you think we might finish 6th… but hold out hope that the reality is others are dropping daft points too… and others are experiencing their own injury crises… and others will have to contend with losing key players to the Africa Cup of Nations… so if we can find our feet over the holidays… then maybe, just maybe, we find our way back into the hunt… coz as bad as we’ve been, few teams have been stellar and no one has motored away with this season.
If LFC finish 1st this season… or if they finish 9th… it will not affect one iota of how I am or why I am a Liverpool Football Supporter.
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 #509 |
Aitch
Posted on December 22, 2009 @ 7:55 pm
As for Man Citeh, the LFC deal was already done and dusted when the Sheik bought came sniffing around for a footy team. And G&H had already slapped an over-inflated price tag on us … one that repelled DIC who really did want us… so he was always gonna buy a cheaper club and Citeh weren’t a bad investment.
I wouldn’t say it was a dumb move, but the guy is going about things in the wrong way. He is trying to do what Abramovich did at Chelsea… problem is, he has a bigger rebuilding job than the Roman had with the Chavs… and he doesn’t have quite the carte-blanche that Roman had… since there were fewer teams who could compete with what he was offering for players at the time… whereas now, forget Spurs, even teams like Sunderland are stumping big money for players.
The best buy in Football right now is Everton… A club steeped in tradition, with a serious history of success, and a large enough following to build on… and even they can’t find a buyer… at a reduced price.
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 #510 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 22, 2009 @ 9:35 pm
Arthur, I’m not having a go, but I am sort of amazed why you’re asking.
I’ve said many many times when I think Rafa will have to go – not shoud go, but will have to. And under our current ownership, and the situation that creates at the club, that’s only under one circumstance…
When the job has become completely untenable for Rafa as an individual.
I’ve also said, I fear the press/media, aided by our shit for brains fans, are closing in on doing exactly that.
And I’ve said time and again, what will probably happen if they leave Rafa with no choice but to go, or H&G sack him. And surely you can see the mess that will leave us in.
I don’t know if you seen it but in the last blog, I wrote out a detailed factual post on what happened at Leeds. I even put a time line on the events that led to their colapse… The situation we are now in is practically a carbon copy of what happened there when it all started to unravel.
I can’t see into the future Arthur, but I think it’s fair to use the most probable case scenario…
Firstly, RBS and Wachovia will get very nervous, especially RBS, and call in the loans. There is no doubt about that, and when forced to raise the money, H&G will start to asset strip the club and pocket as much money as possible.
Hicks has stated this himself. And you only have to look at what happened with their other sporting franchises… Google Corinthians.
But you could also look at any of their sporting franchises. The proof is out there for anyone who cares to look.
So it would probably mean Addios, Nando, Pepe, Yossi, Masch, Gerrard and Johnson.
As for us kicking on after Rafa has gone… Have a look at Valencia.
But to try and give credence to their sack Rafa arguments, idiots always say how Maureen arrived at Chelsea and immeadiately won the league.
Well, I don’t want to just pull a figure out my arse, but what he spent is also easy enough to check.
And them huge multi-millions is what it took for him to win a title with a very good team that had been to a Champion’s League semi final the season before under Raneiri.
And make no bones about it, there will be no money for any new fella under H&G. In fact, they will only hire someone, once it is in their contract that they ask for no money.
(Why are people still asking about January signings? FFS we’re having trouble giving Pepe and Masch new contracts. Nevermind Barcelona knocking on the door. They are on fucking buttons compared to what they could earn elsewhere).
But anyway, who would be the next manager?
Well, forget all these star names people are listing. We’d be lucky to attract a decent young manager who understands the Premiereship and what it takes to perform in it, like say Valencia or Coyle.
But what do you think they could achieve with no money? And do you honestly think H&G would have the sense to hire someone decent with an understanding of the game in this country?
Let’s face it, they fucking don’t… so probably won’t.
And I could go on and on Arthur. But the fact is, I already have. I’ve spent months at it, and it hasn’t been just me.
There’s plenty of people on here trying to warn what is the most likely scenario should Rafa go.
I think people should just get a fucking grip or do one.
Rafa is a fantastic manager. He took over a squad of players, excepting Gerrard, worth about 10 bob. He immeadiately turned them into The Champion’s of Europe. And slowly but surely he’s built them into a squad worth hundreds of millions.
He done that with a net spend of 16 million a season, gradually upgrading as he went along and making a profit on each player he sold on when upgrading.
Our last 3 managers lost money hand over fist on the buying and selling of players. Through success and transfer dealings, Rafa’s brought in record profits every season, each season out doing the last.
He has totally revamped the academy and youth set ups. It’s already starting to bear fruit, with plenty more to come. And he’s installed a scouting system that is beating all the other top clubs to the top young talent and potential.
He’s won a CL and an FA cup, and got us to another CL final. In fact, he’s brought back regular Champion’s league football when we weren’t even qualifying for the UEFA. But he’s given us some wonderful memories and brought back them special European nights.
He’s constantly improved us in the league… beating Arsenal and Wenger in four out of the last five seasons.
Last season, we went within 2 goals of winning the title. Had Nando and Steven been fit more often? We went the closest to the title we have in 20 years, in the process we seen some of the best football we’ve ever seen… nevermind just in the last 20 years.
Unfortunately that means he’s also attracted thousands and thousands of Sky-Prem-Generation fans with their stupid demands. So, fuck all that eh. We’ve had a bad few months. Let’s just toss it all away and leave the club to our “Custodians” and their creditors.
Seriously Arthur, I’m amazed you had to ask.
But while on that subject, I’m still patiently waiting for someone on the other side of the Rafa fence to give me their plan – or more fairly, their most likely case scenario – should they get their way and force out the best manager we’ve had in the last 20 years?
Any takers?
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 #511 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on December 22, 2009 @ 9:46 pm
PS: Arthur, I said it’s practically exactly the same as Leeds, but our situation is actually far worse…. they didn’t have foriegn owners that actually intended to rape the club.
They were just skint, when they sacked O’soNearly.
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 #512 |
Lurgankop
Posted on December 23, 2009 @ 12:57 am
Well I took a bit of a sabbatical after my last outburst. Maybe Shane deserved it (if he is still around) but these type of comments do lower the tone, so I apologise.
I’ve watched the match again and after second viewing my opinion hasn’t changed. We bossed the game for first 30 minutes. There was some good movement off the ball but the passing was very poor at times, especially in the last third. As bigbry has said earlier, there was a sad lack of penetration and the ball could/should have been moved about a bit quicker.
Every time we now make a mistake it seems to end in a goal but fair fucks to that punter it was a superb strike. BTW, was he not offside when the ball came into the box?
After that Brown done Torres off-the-ball and the ref done nought. It was after this that Mascher give him a calling card and was given the red. I still think that it was a yellow at most but did you see that poncey fucking ref just standing there, happy as fuck, know that he was going to produce a red.
Gerrard was saying to Rafa that he was off, a good few minutes before the red was produced. That’s 3 reds in the last two games he’s reffed against us. Also, is he allowed to consult the fourth official on this?
I must admit that after that we got involved in a few petty squabbles, which played into their hands and should defo be addressed by Rafa.
Dagger had a great chance to level it before half-time but failed to take the chance. That’s now 3 sitters in the past 3 games that he’s missed but not for lack of trying.
Overall, we did not really look like scoring in the 2nd half but I still don’t believe, based on this performance, that Rafa has lost the dressing room. The lads were still chasing all around the park but to no avail.
All-in-all a disappointed red but one who will be supporting them, wind, rain, shine or storm.
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 #513 |
Lurgankop
Posted on December 23, 2009 @ 1:02 am
Nice report agent Digger and thanks for asking me question. It wasn’t the answer that I was expecting but thinking about it, it somewhat makes sense.
Whatever answers the great Jan has given, you’re one lucky bollix to have had a chat with him.
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