Good article Gerry.

Gerry..Our Two Men team is performing pretty well
like you said. I think Rafa will keep Stevie G
on the bench and maybe bring him on in the second half depending on the scoreline.
As far as Babel is concerned,when he first came to the Club I was really pleased we had got him and thought he would solve a lot of our Problems
either as a second striker or a wide man, his pace is electric, but unfortunately his brain doesn’t run at the same speed.
I would be glad to see the back of him.
9mil wouldn’t be a bad peace of business, even if we have to keep the money until the summer,his wages will be off the books.
2-0 sounds like a good score Tomorrow Night.

More nervous than I should be about tonight’s game, these trips to minnows have seen us fed to the sharks this season. Any kind of result will do me. Happily tale a 0-1…in off Hercules’ arse!

Babel is an engima wrapped up in a conundrum…as a (not so)super-sub his goals ratio is still pretty good so he should be kept for that role. But it seems that in his own mind he’s meant for bigger things and the rumours make it seem like he’s an unsettling influence who has wanted away for ages now (and is being picky about who he’ll go to, otherwise we’d probably have Turan by now).
Apart from his skill with a four-iron, I’d have Bellamy over him any day and that’s before seeing his form this season!
Kenwynne Jones?
Not good enough for Liverpool – but then again I said that about Torres before he came…so, despite a couple of strikers coming and not working out, I think I’ll leave the scouting to The Gaffa and the backroom boys.

Great blog mate, and cant wait for tonights match.

The reason why I agree with the Babel verdict is as follows. I have started to compare Babel with Ngog. Babel is bigger, faster?, stronger and more solid.

HOWEVER:

When Ngog gets kicked to shit, he gets up, doesnt sulk and gets on with it.

When Ngog gets outplayed, or loses possessiin, he chases and pressures.

When Ngog doesnt have the ball, he runs back to support when possible.

All of the above doesnt happen when Babel is on the park.

Its all about attitude and I dont think Babel has the right attitude. He seems to think he deserves everything without putting in the hard work.

Id like to see the same team start against Wolves, the only change I can see is possible Skrtel or Hercules for Agger and Degen for Maxi/Kuyt (if Kuyt, Ngog moving up front)

Great blog Gerry, I would bite the hand off if I was offered 9 mill for Babel, he won’t make it in the Prem, he needs a slower league with more time on the ball and more space to operate in, plus no defensive duties. He just does not have the heart to guts it out and make an impact; I will shed no tears when he goes. However I would like us to bring in more speed, especially out wide.

It looks like Jones is a real target and I would be interested in seeing how he performs in a strong team. He is big, good in the air and can upset defenses with his physical approach and it could be a very good option for us. I would like us to bring in Turan, but I cannot see that happening before next year, maybe if we do not get Jones and we sell Babel.

I good hard fought win at Wolves, keeping a clean sheet will do just fine. Let’s keep the momentum going. YNWA

Thanks Gerry! Great blog as usual. Also very good article on the main site by Simon Pearce – here’s hoping all the anti-Rafa nuts read it. As he mentions, lest any of us have forgotten, Rafa has the best record of ALL PL managers over the last 4 games – yet the wankers are still calling for his head. Insanity!
Here’s hoping that we stick a few past Wolves tonight, & keep the momentum (and confidence) going.

Hi Gerry. “…However with our “two man” team performing very well in the absence of those two men in our last couple of games, I don’t think the boss will feel under as much pressure to rush back the skipper….” Vintage!

Despite my nervousness lately everytime we are about to play, I still harbour optimism over continued recovery from the “crisis” pinned on us.

It pays to keep remembering there are no easy fixtures in any league anywhere anymore. Sounds obvious but going by fan comments it isn’t.

There’s no guaranteed, money-in-the-back-divine-right-to-win. You slog it out and show up to play. You can do it ugly or pretty – but even pretty gets you beaten (ask Arsenal about their FA experience at Stoke!)

Does patience pay? Ask MUFC about Fergie’s first seven (very barren) years at Old Trafford. What are teams supposed to do when giants like Liverpool show up to play? Roll over and die? They want to win as badly as we do and it’s good to remember that and respect opponents.

That said, can we beat Wolves? Yes, and so can we Chelsea, Arsenal and whoever it is that feels like playing us. Can we go all the way and lift both the Europa and PL? Of course. Can we as fans continue standing by our heroes through thick and thin? You betcha! Let’s all play our parts, whatever each of us thinks about the team, certain players or this season as a whole.

On Jones I’d rather trust the gaffer. Keep the faith Kopites.

Now Chaps,
Spot on Gerry.
Babel is a talented waste of space.
Who would he play in front of in the team.
Upfront Ngog has a far better first touch with a better team mentality and attitude.
On the left Riera adds width and an ability to cross a ball, Babel seems to get a pair of sea legs on everytime he goes near a white line as instead of using his pace to beat his man and send a cross in, he cuts inside and narrows our options. On the right Kuyt is the eptitomy of hard work whilst granted his touch and distribution are far from the finished article. Add to the mix Benayoun who has the ability to turn a game and Rodriguez who I believe is a serious threat to Kuyts place, then where does Babel fit in. The Boss dont trust him as evidenced by continuing to use Ngog as a replacement instead of Babel.
Get shut pronto.
Promise will only get you so far, I worry about what is between this lads ears.

Thank’s Gerry,
this site is now running faster than rooney leaving everton.
I think on the Kenwyn Jones debate, granted it would be nice to see how he fares in a better side than sunderland, i think that’s why Rafa wanted a loan deal, but i seriously think he would be making a mistake to just go out and buy him, look at the debacle with Keane and i think he was a better player than Jones, yet it is all if’s and but’ and like you say leave it to the Gaffer.
YNWA.

Rather than dancing with the Wolves, let’s hope we lead the Wolves a Merry dance!

This really is game where we need to kick on and claim the 3 points.

Victory at Molinuex and then again at home to Bolton on Saturday will mean that we would have won 5 and drawn one of our last 6 prem matches and that should give everyone a lift and the belief that we have finally turned the corner this season. Five wins and a draw from 6 Prem games is the type of run that title challengers put together. Let’s hope we can do it!

Spot on Keith, the thing with Babel, unfortunately for us, has to do with heart primarily, also he just does not suit Rafa and the way this team runs. I don’t think he’ll ever make it with us or anyone else in the PL (arse ready to be bitten !).

His head goes down to easily and he gets upset rather than keeping a cool head and upsetting the opposition. I think opponents know they can rile him and they do.

Aitch, we’ll get back to that debate (last blog) another time ok !

As stated above, this game, imho, is absolutely vital to win, by hook or by crook, it does not matter. Momentum is everything now, form, class, swagger and the rest will follow we just have to win. That will keep us off the back pages and let the vultures chase after the next “victim”. Just win and keep our heads down and win again ….

I think Wolves will come at us, high tempo, hustle & bustle, a sort of mini-Stoke. But they will leave gaps and they leak goals. We need to hold them off and take our chances. I don’t care if Dirk misses his usual bagful as long as he puts the first one away.

As Gerry says 2-0, early and late goals. Dirk to bag the first. I hope !

Spot on Gerry. As you say, if SG is not 100% fit, then he should park his ass on the bench. Not a bad option to have – I would make him captain STR

I don’t think that this is the time to change from the formula that has worked so well in recent weeks. 3 points is the most important and if we continue in the same vein as we did against the spuds, then they should be ours.

In tonights lineup I would like to see Degen and Kryiacos get a nod because I think they deserve for their last two performances. Before the Tottenham game I was wanting Kuyt to get a break and even though he scored I think he should be rested and Ngog should come in. Also Insua is in serious need of some rest. So the team I want to see looks like this

Reina
Carra-Kyriacos-Agger-Aurelio
Lucas – Aqualani
Degen – Maxi – Riera
Ngog

But I think it might be more like this

Reina
Carra-Skrtel-Kyriacos-Aurelio
Lucas-Masch
Maxi – Aqualani – Riera
Kuyt

Either way I think both teams have enough in them to claim 3 points.

Check this out from Rafa:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/article7002354.ece

Liked these quotes in particular:

“This year we have done a fantastic job trying to balance the books and to do the right job for the company.”

and

“This year we had to do it this way because it was good for the stability of the club, because the investors can see the club is not a risk and maybe they will come in and make it easier to build something for the future.

A few hidden messages from Rafa?

Great quotes from Rafa, which shows he’s actually managing the club well. It’s incredible what all the derision and disdain the media twats throw at him.

Latest is this article from the Manc Guardian, which I won’t even bother linking and pollute this place, on how Rafa will be going to Juve.

Said article basically “quoted” Rafa’s agent: “At Juventus next summer? I don’t know what can happen between now and four to five months.”

HOWEVER, when you look at the full conversation, the meaning is completely the opposite:

“The agent of Rafa Benitez has moved quickly to play down speculation linking the Liverpool boss to Juventus, with their current manager Ciro Ferrara under pressure at the Serie A club.

Manuel Garcia Quilon says that Benitez is very commited to Liverpool and intends to see out the remaining four years of his contract, despite growing pressure amid poor performances on the pitch this season.

Quilon told calciomercato.it, “This hypothesis is not correct because Rafa has a four-year contract with the Reds. His figure is very important there, the idols of the fans are Gerrard, Torres and Benitez.

“At Juventus next summer? I don’t know what can happen between now and four to five months.

“In football, everything changes very quickly, but the basic principle is that Rafa has another four-year contract with Liverpool.”

Sooner we get rid of Babel the better. If we can get 9-10 mill off someone like Birmingham we should take it as it only represents a small loss on our part, fiscally. It’s a great shame Babel has turned out as he has, yet another player to confine to the record book as one who had all the talent but no work ethic and no footballing intelligence much like Baros and Cisse before him.

However I don’t think Kenwyne Jones is the answer. He tends to drift in and out of games, especially when things don’t go his way ala Harry Kewell. For £10 million, there’s better and more consistant strikers around.

BTW, concerning the FA Cup. I was less concerned about our disappointing exit, as this IS the Cup of the Giant Killers.

What annoys and sickens me more is the double standards displayed by the media when reporting the giant killings. I don’t see them going into hysterics demanding Ferguscum step down for losing to Leeds, or asking for Wenger’s head for his ridiculous defeat to Stoke, or even burn Appy Arry at the stake for daring to bench Robbie Keane and allowing Leeds to force a replay.

That’s more like you Kinny. Pleasure to have you back and totally agree about the double standards but what can we do?

BTW, what I liked about Rafa’s first quote is that he clearly stated that they were ‘doing the right thing for the COMPANY’ and did not mention LFC – a bit of a pot-shot at the owners IMHO.

Sousake, what’s wrong with Jones? I seem to remember Sunderland going off the boil just after he was injured, whilst playing against us/beachball. Surely we need a bit more physical presence up-front. No?

Jones could be a good signing it’s hard to say.
It’s a gamble.

Torres was a gamble (had never played in the Prem before) but I’m sure we would all say it was £21m well spent?

I’d personally prefer us to go for Huntelaar ahead of Jones, but would be happy if we bought in any help whatsoever for Torres.

Superb stuff Gerry,

I`d be happy to be shot of babel also.£9 million is an absolute steal for LFC.I just hope Rafa can keep a straight face when handing Ryan over to who ever is stupid enough to pay that amount of money for him.

Jones is indeed a gamble but one i`m willing Rafa to take.We do need back up in this area and to be honest there`s not much more out there at the moment.Kenwyn isn`t your tyical LFC player but he could have a good effect on the team if signed.We`ll just have to wait and see i suppose.

Business resumes tonight and more of the same please lads.
I`d keep the greek and skrtle at the back.Wolves have an threat in the air with Doyle and he could be marshalled by the pair.
As for the rest of the side i`d agree Gerry that Gerrard shouldn`t be rushed back just yet.Insua for me could do with a little rest.
I`d like to see Maxi get more minutes under his belt also.

So i`ll go for …

Reina
Carra,skrtle,greek,Aurelio
lucas,masch
kuyt,aquallini,riera
Ngog

Exactly STR. People were sceptical about the FT signing, in here as well, saying that he did not score enough goals. Well he looked good on youtube and not bad in the flesh either.

Time to trust (again) the man at the head of LFC and not those at the head of the company.

Well it seems fatheads allegations werent so unfounded afterall. Its a strange one though, Jones is a very un-rafa like player; questionable attitude, drifts in and out of games, petulant at times. We’ll see. Kinny I’m guessing the reasons for the press not calling for taggart and wengers heads after their cup exits are they dident go on a won 6 in 20 game streak, ones atop the table the other in 2nd, both still in the champions league. I dunno, maybe its just me but its easy if you look?!

Thought that you were on vacation digger.

So Manure being put out by a 3rd divison side, (sorry for those people who are less that 18 years old) is not news?

Also, we got a draw at Stoke last week. Better result than the Arse’s. No?

I wish I was on vacation Lurgan! Manure being eliminated was a story Lurgan and I read articles critical of Fergusons selection and the attitude of those selected also. The mancs went nuts after it though admittedly more so at the players than taggart. Some of them on football 365 were particularly savage. So to say it wasnt a story is inaccurate mate. The reaction after our exit was a result of a cumulative effect of dreadful result after dreadful result. But yes, our result at Stoke was better than Arses!

Just came across this from the THICK CUNT,

http://therepublikofmancunia.com/rooney-i-grew-up-hating-liverpool-and-kai-will-too/

Did’nt expect anything better from him the childish fucker, my late Dad was born and bred in Gladwys street (that of everton fame) and what a RED he was, but he never ingrained in my 2 brothers and me to be a Red’s fan my youngest bro is a bluenose but still a cracking lad.
YNWA.

PS,
think i’ll go in to that shite sorry that site and cause a bit of mischief.

Digger is right…Rafa and LFC in general are being slaughtered by the press for two main reasons:

1) shite season so far – essentially out of all competitions by January

2) Unlike Wenger and Ferguson, Rafa has never won the Premier League

Not saying I’m agreeing with it – that’s just how it is…

Interesting to see if Wolves put out a reserve side tonight ( which is nothing more than match fixing ). Either way i’m hoping for another 2-0 to us.
Babel: Dont know if its true but i heard a fan tweeted he should “get stuck in”to which he replied “what and get injured again, your crazy “.Like i say don’t know if it’s true but if it is he’s obviously given up on fighting for his place.
Digger “Fat heads allegations ” Christian purslow is talking with Niall Quinn. Hardly underhand is it. Just another bootlicker ex manc stabbing Rafa in the back.
No matter which way you look at it Digger untill Rafa showed up it was Wenger who was getting ridiculed by the press and Liverpool have always been fair game for whatever agenda they choose to run. Its not like it started after the Reading game it’s been going on for years.
Gerry good to see you writing on the main site,i cant post comment’s on them,but they’re just as good as these blogs.
YNWA

I agree Rome. Before Rafa it was indeed Wenger who took the brunt of it. Who can ever forget the back page pics of Wenger parodying him as Basil Fawlty? And a similar attack by Dunphy live on air prompting an impassioned rebuttal by Liam Brady? And the witchhunt when Arsenal were struggling last yr? But Arthurs right, until Rafa wins the title it wont abate and even then it will only be dampened slightly, he is Spanish and manager of Liverpool afterall.

Digger doubtless there was storys about disgruntled Manc’s after losing to the team that hates them the most,but i didn’t see them as i didn’t go looking for them.
Whereas i dont go looking for anti Rafa stories but i seem to find them wherever i look and not just on TIA or other Liverpool websites, they are in main stream media and the little local newspapers even the News at Ten throw the odd one in along with Brown, Obama, Creditcrunch,Haiti,Benitez, Iraq Afganistan.Global Warming, you get my drift.
YNWA.

I am a slow at typing. Anyway if we do win the Prem it will just increase as it did after coming so close last season. The last thing they want is to look stupid a lot of the pundits and journalists have drawn the line in the sand so deep its too big for them to cross,so they’ll just dig in a little deeper.
YNWA

Have to say I dont think Jones would represent a gamble at all.
Last season and the couple before that he was immense and would thrive in a better team.
He is stronger than crouch, more mobile and bullies opposition defenders.
Its hard to say what has gone on this season as he has played well and poorly in equal measure. Last season he was a 20 million pound player.
As Gerry says if Rafa likes him thats all that matters. I would be really interested what opinion Carra,Dagger et al have of him

The media is xenophobic and quite frankly racist. Wenger gets heavily criticised, Rafa gets slaughtered. Mourinho jumped ship before things at Chelsea got sticky. I reckon they were sharpening their knives for Jose. When he did get sacked I don’t remember any uproar. Contrast that with the media reaction to Mark Hughes getting the sack. He is White British you see and “how dare those Arabs sack one of ours’”. They were slagging off Mancini before he even took charge of a game. Asking what has he done in the PL. Never mind the guy has won 3 Serie A titles and Mark Hughes has won fuck all. Then there is Harry Redknapp – the manager who has won one trophy in 30 years of management. Got Pompey bankrupt with his spending. Spent a shit load of money and won fuck all at Spurs. Has the City of London Police on his case but gets a pat on the back from the media. He’s done no better than Martin Jol with twice the expenditure. Then you have Fat Sam and Steve Bruce – won fuck all the pair of them but get pats on the back and invited on the Sky Sports sofa every other week. These idiots can slag off Rafa and Wenger as much as they like and nobody says anything. Rafa reads a carefully written statement about Ferguson and apparently he has lost his mind. I watched Spurs against Liverpool at Anfield and saw a close up of Joe Jordan telling to Rafa to fuck off. What did Andy Gray say: “Oh you don’t mess with Joe”. I’ve seen Wenger told to fuck off by Steve Bruce – he then decides he isn’t going to shake hands after the game. Guess who is on trial for being a bad sport? Not the fat Geordie ex manc scum that’s for sure.

theredman: I’m sure Shrek grew up hating the Mancs aswell so it will be interesting to see how Rooney junior deals with the Mancs singing their favourite song
“you scouse b*st*rds”. Especially as Mummy and Daddy,Grandma and Grandad are Scouse.
YNWA

Just went out and bought 15minutes that shook the world. I’m off tomorrow so a perfect evening is to come home from the bar after a few beers and a good win,then stick on the DVD and have a few more beers and a bit of a chuckle.
However as everyone is aware our season isn’t/hasn’t been going according to plan so I think I’m in for another evening of shitting my britches until the final whistle.
Good point made there about whether wolves will put out a second string tonight however we do only have ourselves to blame for giving lower teams all the hope in the world.
In saying that though I’ll enjoy reminding my manc mates that should we win we had to beat a team they wont have to play this season.
Lets go you redmen!!

Couldn’t have said it any better LB. I always suspect the British media to be a bit racist, always bigging up English teams, players and managers, while slagging off anyone who’s even remotely foreign and blaming everything, including Global Warming, on them.

I’m just surprised they haven’t yet made Rafa responsible for this recent cold snap that’s engulfed the entire northern hemisphere from America to Europe to China.

I probably wouldn’t be surprised if them British papers were to rave on in tomorrow’s papers about how Murray convincingly beat Nadal at the Aussie Open, when Nadal actually retired due to injury.

I think I should buy that Soccernomics book, as it seems to be hailed as the Bible of Common Sense, since it does answer a lot of questions like why England always lose in everything.

rome77,
he probably did hate the mancs but just shows what a few bob can achieve the greedy bastard (once a blue blah blah blah).
My nephew who lives in Salford (poor fucker) is a manc supporter, and he say’s half of old trafford fuckin hate him and owen, and as for owen whats wrong with him all of a sudden with the tramp playing that kid diouf (looks like he swallowed a piano the gob on him) wont do his world cup dream any good.

How the fuck can any of them mancs hate shrek after what he has done for them and his Ratboy like constant jibes at LFC.
Just goes to show Red how bitter and twisted those horrible cunts really are.

LB sumed up well hOw Rafa is treated compared to the whiskey nse arse kissing club at the god oul LMA(Fat sam,big nose bruce,oul `Arry and the like).

Sly sports say Rafa is close to signing a new deal for keeper Jose Rena.

Is he pepe`s brother?

TT Jose is pepe.

And as the tumbleweed passes by………..

Rome i thought they`d did a fuck up like last week they asked new westham owner David Gold if Gianluca Vialli`s job was safe

Timmy – I was just saying on the comment thread of the previous blog, if they call Liverpool a two man team then what does that make manure?
Rooney has carried them this season and I haven’t seen or heard any pundit/pressmonger mention it until Shearer did.

Wake up lads, sleepwalked through the first half…

Come on you redmen….

What always makes me laugh are the commentators confusing ngog for babel.
FFS they don’t look alike.

Terrible game to watch.

Decent point but rubbish game.

Did we string more than four passes together?

Gerrard was clearly off the pace. Thought Hercules was good tonight, he covered well for Skirts. Mash can tackle but his passes?! Ngog made a difference again when he came on.

I’m depressed…

Typical… raise our hopes then dash them again.

Decent point?

Sorry now pal but hows that a decent point?

Yes we were shite again we couldn`t string three passes together.

Make no bones about it Wolves will be in the bottom four whist we aim to get in to the top four.We should be looking to be coming away from there with three points,no less.

Rafa has to hold his hands up for this one.Outside starting a clearly unfit Gerrard it was plain to see after an hour we needed some creativity from the middle ala Aquallini but Rafa refused to pull either Masch,Lucas or the very ineffective Gerrard.

It’s so frustrating when you spend the whole game feeling that just one well placed pass in the final third will win the game. Unfortunately it never came and this is becoming a trend for us. I attribute this to the constant rotations in attack which are caused by the landslide of injuries this season.

We’ll surely pick it up when everyone is fit again. Tonight was a step back but hopefully next game will be a two steps forward.

Well one step forward, 2 steps(points) back. Spurs have won and we were absolutely diabolical tonight. 1…1!!!!! shot on target all night long!! The Kop may have roared us to victory last week but tonight without the early goal we essentially played with nobody up front all night (at least until NGog came on)

I know people like FS, Kinny, SA and the likes have said it’ll be a slog from now until May…but I ask..why?? Despite all our problems this year we still had a far stronger first 11 and squad in general than Wolves tonight but we we produced one of our worst (and its been a pretty shitty season) performances of the season tonight.

Why was Aquilani not playing tonight??? This is crazy – stand by Rafa all you want but I cannot understand this manager any more. Lucas and Mascherano midfield create NOTHING/ NADA/ FUCK ALL/. This is not me slagging off Lucas, far from it, he’s been our most improved player this year. But against teams like Wolves and in game like (this with an opportunity to get into the top 4)do you really play them both?? No – you do not! You drop one of them and you go out to beat Wolves. Wolves! a team who now have not scored in 4 games in a row.

Oh and before anyone slags Mick McCarthy off for fielding a weakened team against Utd and not us..ah, its because he knew he could get something off us…

I’m sure some will come on and say I’m knee jerking (whatever the hell that means) but people need to wake up – this team is playing some of the worst football I’ve seen Liverpool play in the last twenty years. We haven’t played well against ANYBODY since we beat Man Utd back in October and I defy anyone to argue with me on that one.

That 11 (12 including NGog) should have been good enough to beat Wolves. But I know in football you have no right to assume anything – but I tell you one thing: that 11 tonight SHOULD have created more than 1…1!!!! shot on target all night. That is inexcusable and unexceptable.

Disillusioned doesn’t even begin to sum my feelings up

I agree TT – we needed Aquillani to come on, and I’m a bit worried that he possibly did not because Rafa was trying not to hurt Gerrard’s feelings by subbing him. But one must admit that even an unfit Steve can still win a game by a single strike if the ball drops kindly for him. Which is a good reason to play him on.

I was really disappointed Pacheco was not given a chance, but was glad not to see Babel in red.

Good one LB, on #33.

It’s not about whether Rafa has won the league. They just have an axe to grind with him. Even if Rafa had won the league, they’ll use it as a stick to beat him.

Remember how badly they beat Rafa for failing to qualify for last 16 for Champions League despite winning 1 and being a losing finalist in another for the last 5 years?

Is anything said about the scums when they couldn’t even qualify for UEFA after finishing bottom of the qualifying group? Nothing! Chelsea was flying that year, and the scums had no chance of winning the league.

Get my point, guys?

Decent point McrRed???????

sorry, I know we don’t have the cash of Chelsea, Arsenal, Man City et al…but I dare to say that probably 15-16 teams in this league wouldn’t view a point a Molineux (considering the form they are in) DECENT

have our standards slipped that much?

Axchoice – forget about this so called media witch hunt….they always pick on big teams when they’re doing poorly. Fact.

And to answer your question about when Utd didn’t qualify for the 2nd round..yes there were major questions asked about Ferguson at the time. This was winter 2005.. Utd hadn’t won the league since 2003 and wouldn’t challenge that season either. Many journalists thought that it was time for Ferguson to move on, so Utd were not immune either.

Oh and another huge factor that year was that although Utd may not have qualified for the knockout stages of the Big Cup – they never for one moment looked like not getting into the top 4.

Put it simply..if we were playing well and winning games – the press wouldn’t be at us. It’s not rocket science

Arthur G. Posis, we played with two holding midfieders because that method has worked in the past and we have taken 10/12 points with that line up.

When you are shot on confidence, like we are, you stick with a method that works to try and grind yourself out of the slump.

You say you havent seen Liverpool play this badly in 20 years, have you been watching 20years of Liverpool yet? I doubt it from that comment.

And yes, there is a media biased, if you cant see it well then you obviousaly choose to ignore it, or you arent from the UK. Take it from lads like FS who see it day in and day out.

Ohh Arthur, little example about the media.

When we are playing badly:”Liverpool are a two man team, rafa spent all this money and they are rubbish” – This is when we had Johnson, Torres, Gerrard, Agger, Benny, Riera, Aqua and Ngog all out.

Whereas when united play badly: “ohh they have soo many injury problems at the moment” – when they had 2-3 players out.

Akka, mate that was a shockingly, boring disgraceful performance, I’m not sure what game your watching. 1 shot in the second half from Reira. Subbing Reira was probably the worst decision I have seen Rafa make this year.
.
He was clearly our best attacking option, Maxi was a passenger in the second half, Stevie was shocking. I cannot understand a decision of leaving Aqualani on the bench and then not using him in a dire draw. My only thought is we went with the intention of gaining a draw.
.
Skrtel and Carra made Doyle look like a 20 million pound striker. It was a disapointing night for the travelling fans. And as far as the point of 10/12 with the lineup, Aqualani was in that lineup not SG.
.
If SG can come back from an alleged hamstring strain in two weeks after being in and out with problems, then get a full game, I would suggest he wasn’t injured more like repremanded.
.
I personally thought Kuyt should more intent than anyone else. We were lucky to get a draw. Mr B time to stand up and be counted.
.
And before I get labelled a knee jerker, it’s not just frustration it was crap headball. If I wanted to watch a volleyball game I would.

Gaz i dont think you read my post.

I was merely stating why we played with 2 holding midfielders (our usual line up) and why it wasnt the worst game in 20 years.

I hate hearing every week “ohh my god it was the worst game ever”, makes people sound like they are two years of age.

I agree it was a bad performance. No spark and no ideas when going forward. I wouldnt have started Stevie, I would have gone with Aqua from the start and then Stevie on.

I thougth Maxi is adapting quickly, even after 2 games. Give him 3-4 more games and he may be a descent signing as a winger.

I agree, Maxi gives us width but it was clear to see Reira was head and shoulders above both Maxi and Stevie today. I would have brought Aqulani on in SG position and given Ngog a run up front with Kuyt out wide. However I’m not the boss.
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But while I’m on a rant, why the fuck is Babel still getting on the bench, when clearly he is not going to get a game. Fuck him off.

Akka – I’ve been following Liverpool for 21 years – thank you for asking. So I have seen the good, the bad and the ugly..Just because I do not agree with the pro Rafa line all the time..you cant just label me a novice fan…sorry it doesnt work that way

Shot of confidence?? ah hang on..shouldn’t winning 10 out of 12 points INCREASE your confidence??

Guys..come on..it’s time to ditch the excuses..

Akka – two holding midfielders against Wolves??? so you keep the same formation just cos it worked against Spurs the week before? Do you not adapt a different formation when facing a different challenge? Why did we need to “hold” Wolves off? Wolves, ladies and gentlemen are fuckin shite and will get relegated this year.

Oh and also – can we give the whole “Utd get slagged off less than us..and it’s just not fair” argument a rest lads…who gives a fuck?? Utd are a pale imitation of themselves this season but are still top and in the Champions League. They don’t get slagged off cos they don’t merit it.

I would like someone to tell me why a half fit Gerrard plays instead of our fully fit multi million pound signing Aquilani? Or why he doesn’t even get off the bench? Anybody?

Madness – Robbie Keane all over again

That was one shite game. Just did not have the urgency that we had against Spurs, it was as if we just expected Wolves to roll over and give us the 3 points on that basis that we are Liverpool and they are shite. Ngog should be starting these games and so should’ve Aquilani. I’m baffled and frustrated.

You know what pisses me off, is the arguments that are constantly made with changing goal post.

Note: Im not making excuses for todays performances, i think the team were poor and rafa tactics didnt work.

HOWEVER:

Earlier in the season when Torres eas playing (forgot against which team) he got subbed cause he was coming back from injury and we lost (drew?) that match. The other team said they felt relieved having Torres off and it made it easier for them to attack etc. Our OWN fans (and in kopblog) were slagging Rafa for taking Torres off even though he had barely played a full game and was completely wasted and injured.

Now we have Gerrard playing, and cause we didnt get the result, its ‘Rafa should have subbed Gerrard off”.

Mind you that game Torres was pulling up trees, but his presence was important, so was Stevies today. Whilst I think he played poorly, so did the rest of the team.

correction *torres WASNT pulling up trees

As for Aqualani not starting. I believe he should have started ahead of Stevie.

When it comes to subbing him on in the last 15min i dont agree with that.
I think the lad is quality, but I think he is one that needs to virtually play from the start and control the game (spraying passes, making deep runs etc). His presence would be felt for that 90min.

At the moment i dont see Aqua being a player who can come on for 15min and go crazy. Kind of like Alonso, you wouldnt rely on him to come on as a super sub and take on 3-4 players to set up a goal. I know that probably wont make sense to everyone, but try and think about it.

It makes a lot of sense to me Akka…
I would have started with AQUAMAN AND LEFT GERRARD ON THE BENCH..then brought him on as a sub
in the second half..
But hey I’m not getting paid the big bucks to Manage the Team…

Stevie G should not have been anywhere near that field today… I’ll get slated for that, but fuck it…
…people complain about Kuyt being untouchable and having to play every game…. SG was clearly NOT ready to return… and should have been fucked off to Spain for a few days with a masseuse and fitness trainer and a dietician for a week in the sun… we need him fit and firing on all cylinders for when we face Everton, Arsenal, Uric, Citeh, then Uricea again in the space of 21 days!
And right now, he’s playing like a fuckin clapped out, ’59 Mini.

Of course, he’s a player that can play 80 minutes of shite and then pop up with a goal… but fuckin ‘ell… that means the rest of the lads have to play as 10 men for 90 minutes to accomodate it.
Its interesting that we have played in our shell when he was available, then the minute he’s out, we play well, then he’s back and its turtle time again.

Stevie was a passenger today, for the whole 90 minutes…
which we may have been able to afford… had Lucas not had a poor game and Masch been completely shite!

I thought Riera started well, but got little joy getting past his man out wide, and so started cutting in all the time, so I was not at all surprised to see him go off.
Maxi put in a good shift I reckon. He certainly didn’t amaze, but he showed a willingness to graft and get stuck into the tackle, which I think bodes well for the future.

It was definitely 2 points dropped, but Wolves battled for their point today, so I understand what timmy was getting at… we could just as easily have conceded a goal and left with nothing… especially at 0-0 on 80 minutes… that was when the assured defending went right out the fuckin window and stupid errors and uncertainty started to creep into the back 4.

Yes, they are Wolves and relegation fodder, but they sure didn’t play like that today… but we should have expected that.

I feel sorry for Rafa though. To play SG or not to play SG, has to be the tough decision right now. I think he got it wrong today…
…but we’ll never know…
… if he had gone without him… would we have played like we did against Spurs and come away with all 3 points????

I love my club,manager and players…but that was garbage football in my book, it doesn,t take a genius to see. i was bored out of my mind!!!!!, from the back we constantly smacked the ball hopefull….of hiting kuyt or stevie….there was no midfield!!, masch and lucas are the same player at the mo…sorry most of the seas, right now id have lucas as masch,s passing is woeful. aqualani should have played and stevie should have been brought on 2nd half…..in fact the fact we were so poor and rafa never used aqua, pacheco 2 very good prospects…its kinda mind boggeling.the gaffer didn,t even think to give maxi a rest on his first start!…that really worries me as rafa seemed a bit lost to me. i read the TIA report after the game and rafas comments seemed slightly baffling….if last week was the highlight of my season this week certainly feels like the lowest.

Oh and for those that don’t understand rafa’s reasoning…

…do you not think the Ref let an aweful lot go today? I do.

Wolves kicked the shit out of us today and he kept playing advantage when there was none.

So I sort of understand the reluctance to pitch Aqualani into that mess… at least not until he’s fully fit and settled anyway.

The number of times Maxi got fuckin twatted to the ground, only for the ref to wave play-on was staggering.

And so it goes on …… So fucking angry with the players tonight. Why why why did aquilani not start?? Gerrard, well I don’t no where to start. Then there was Lucas. It’s a long road ahead gentlemen!!

The difference between Spurs and this game. Against Spurs we played like Wolves and against Wolves we played like Spurs. Quite a pathetic show. Aquaman should have played in place of Lucas. Masch passing was wayward. He needed to give the ball to someone to do the job. And Lucas is not that guy. Aqua would have been better to surprise the opposition with a quick pass.

Where to begin…I agree the game was bad, very bad and I agree that I am perplexed by some aspects of the team lineup.

Dirk Kuyt will always try but if he’s playing as a lone striker he needs the service – see goal against Spurs last week. He achieved nothing today, besides making the wolves backline look good.
Enter Ngog with some pace and you started spotting opportunities.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, Lucas and Masch don’t offer enough going forward and I would have liked to see either of them make way for Aquilani – spot on Arthur; different challenge calls for different tactics.

Maxi should have made way for Ngog and Riera left on, he at least was trying…

But still the same, we had personnel on the pitch that was more then capable of disposing of this wolves team. The biggest disappointment is the lack of hunger and drive within the team. Looking at the players with 10 minutes left on the clock you could almost believe they were happy with the ‘accomplishment’ of landing one point…

Arthur, I’m just going to pretend I didn’t see you name me in your list of “positive spin doctors” as an excuse to vent your spleen that the world is coming to an end. Apart from that, I didn’t bother reading any of the comments above as I more or less could guess what it’ll be like.

In fact, I should not have come in here now so soon, but wait a little while before tempers cooled down.

Anyway, there has been so many false dawns this season, plus all the tough luck we’re getting from refs, I didn’t dare expect too much from this game. Didn’t even dare watch it, for fear of generating the same reaction seen by some people here.

In fact, upon seeing the result, in a perverse way, I was actually pleasantly surprised that we remained UNDEFEATED for 5 games now, such is the massive lowering of expectation caused by the dip in both form and luck this season.

With our form and luck like this, this is probably going to be a war of attrition between us, Spurs, Villa and Man City for the Champions League spot, to see who loses the least points between now and May. Mark my words, those 3 teams WILL lose points as well. We just need to make sure we lose less than them if we (touch wood) are to lose some more.

As for Aquilani, I see Rafa is wrapping him up in cotton wool and I don’t blame him for it. I remember Alonso was also constantly wrapped safely by Rafa during his first season to keep him fresh for the more crucial games. It’s only Alonso beefed up year after year adapting to the Premier League that Rafa let him play more often. I believe the same can be said of Aquilani in the forseeable future.

I’m just going to go watch the Aussie Open so as not to get further contaminated by the negativity, so bye for now.

Kinny I could understand your reasoning about wrapping Aqualani in cotton wool at times In fact it is what is keeping him going, but wouldn’t the argument be the same to a recently injured Gerrard. If anyone Gerrard has had a dreadful run of injuries this year, so starting him back in that type of game and then leaving him on the park, is risking him more.
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Then not to use at least 1 other sub in a last gasp effort to win the game, leaves me thinking Rafa went there for the draw.
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It’s not negativity, I just thought the game was boring as bat shit, not actually worth watching. In fact late on Kuyt took on a couple of players inside the box, that was about our best passage of play. The game was screaming out for someone to run at players in the box, maybe even a Pechco.

gaz, I think your comment just made a case for Rafa rather than against him.

If rafa has a fault, it isn’t his stubbornness, or his supposed bad-man-management… its his continual faith in the players playing for him.

I think he made the decisions he made, NOT to settle for a draw, but fully expecting the lads to pull their thumbs out and win it late on.

Of course, they didn’t (and haven’t done in the past) but its the players on the field that should bare the brunt of the blame, not Rafa.

But yeah, sometimes, I too wish he’d just Yank players off when they aren’t doing it, instead of persisting with them.

………………….
Oh and… Masch and Lucas not only CAN play together, they HAVE played together and we’ve won when they’ve done so.
Its like commentators still harping on about zonal marking, when we stopped zonal marking last season and any dickhead can see that we now have 4-5 players marking zones with the rest man-marking.

Today, they both played poorly and we lost the middle of the park… but if either of the two was gonna get subbed today, it should have been Masch and not Lucas.

Arthur,

Yes, Fergie was under pressure in 2005. But was there such a constant witch hunt from the media to ask him to quit then? I don’t remember. It’s only many Man U fans asking him to leave, saying he’s past his prime and United needs new blood, much like yourself.

So Fergie stayed and has won 3 more league titles and a Champions League. What makes you think Rafa can’t win the league if given more time? After all, Fergie seemed to have lost it then?

A small point, but I thought that against Spurs last week, we looked as dangerous as we have all season from set pieces – free kicks and corners. Riera took them all. So Stevie starts against Wolves, and lo and behold, he takes ALL the corners & free kicks – and they were shite! Why change from Riera to Gerrard? I mean, Stevie couldn’t even get past the defender at the front post, FFS!

Rafa’s team selection was ok I think, at least it gave me some hope of some attacking threat. And the first two min was pretty good, but then game over. And from there on out Rafa’s coaching from the bench was shocking to say the least! How that game past him by with out him making more than one-1 change is beyond me!! Doesn’t he care?? Or has he just lost his plot?? Surely we had players on the bench capable of performing better than the 11 we started with! Aquliani, Babbel and Pacheco even Degen could do better! I just can’t se any good reason for not bringing on more players. Are we at that point when Rafa see’s any point away from home as decent??

I think the two holding midfielders has not worked for us all season. Yes, we will win some games here and there with the two but it has not worked this season at all. Last season Xabi was one of the holding midfielders and we all know he is not really a holding midfielder but a distributor and an excellent one at that. Neither of our two holders even come close. Last year we were scoring goals for fun and creating even more. This year we can barely score more than one goal in most games, which has cost us big time.
We simply cannot create enough from the middle of the park and that makes us a bit more predictable.
It would be easy for me to say that we should put Stevie with Masch and Aqua or Benny in front, but hell, what do I know?
Just offering my opinion.

Why did we buy Aquilani if he is unable to play against the bully teams such as Wolves, Stoke, Bolton, Blackburn etc?? Aquilani himself has come out and said he is fit, ready to play and NEEDS games. Alonso played virtually every week in his first season before he got injured on New Years day against Chelsea so I’m not buying that argument either

Rafa is making non-sensical decisions right now:

1) Playing a clearly unfit Gerrard

2) Not playing a cleary fit and very expensive Aquilani

3) Playing one man up front against a team that have now not scored for 4 games in a row and have conceded a goal against every other team at home this season (bar one)

4) Not bringing on Aquilani at any stage when it was blindingly obvious that Gerrard wasn’t fit

5) Playing Mascheano AND Lucas when we were clearly carrying a half fit Stevie G – meaning zero creativity in the middle of the park

6)Not bringing on a third and final sub to try and win the game

I don’t think anyone can argue with me on these points..let alone explain them

A third and final sub?? He didn’t even put on a second sub……

Arthur,

I was surprised that Rafa started Gerrard whom I think is not fit and off form now. But you never know about Gerrard as he may score a winner out of the blue. So I’ll say a calculated risk went wrong.

Now To answer your questions

(1) read 1st paragraph

(2) Are you sure he is clearly fit? Match fit? He may say he is fit. I remember a certain Mr Torres saying he is fit this entire season and look what happens? Again I think he did not play as this is the position Gerrard played last night

(3) That’s the style we’ve been playing for a while now. It’s the same formation and essentially the same players that worked well against Spurs, a better team than Wolves. So you can’t say it’s ineffective. It’s also the same formation (with Torres up front though) that broke many scoring records last season.

(4) That one baffles me too. I agree with you that Aquilani should come in to change the game

(5) Not exactly zero creativity if you consider Maxi as a creative winger we need. Maybe Rafa has decided this game is meant for Maxi to gel with the team, and playing him and Aquilani together might present some risks defensively (just my guess).

(6) Maybe he thinks the team can conjure out something out of nothing again, with Gerrard in the side, which brings us back to (1), while keeping the team shape.

Well, I tried to explain them to you as best as I can, agreeing with you on point 4.

LOL @ Norway – sorry yeah realised my error – can’t edit posts in this site!

#52 + #59 absolutely spot on !
its made to seem almost criminal now to criticise the gaffa but come on !
yeah players are underperforming but your the man ! try something ANYTHING …but give us all the impression you wanna win the game.” the positives are its another game unbeaten” yeah nice one rafa. the game is crying out for a spark of creativity we have a 20 mill creative option on the bench and what do we do ? we just fucking settle for not losing !
doesnt that just give the whole squad a massive confidence boost ?

Yes we have played with two holding midfielder before and won, but that doesn,t hide the fact that our current midfield are struggling and have done all season…creatively we are bland and apart from kuyts goal last week our goals have come from scrappy 6 yrd tap ins or bumbiling set piece goals, i really dont think we had 1 chance in the first half….theres no fucken excuse for hoofin the ball to no one when a man is open 10 yard away on the angle.
i agree its the players job not rafas but guys…seriously rafa was known as mr rotation…we need some know…tinker with team abit, we couldn,t honestly play worse than today….actually eggnog played well when on…

oh and you cant blame the ref 4 that performance….yes we get a bad call most times but not this time.

Axchoice – well how can he get match fit when he’s sitting on his arse on the bench? It may look like a Catch 22 – but it’s not – he needs games – and it doesnt matter who it is against.

But I’m aware that managment is a risky business -and playing Stevie G was such a risk. I can forgive that, but when it is clearly not working -Rafa should have acted – the fact that he didn’t worries me

I’ve got a version of the fit or not fit issue, I’m of the belief if a player is lacking fitness then working him is Ok.
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However if he’s under an injury cloud and your going to play him, put him on from the start, that way if he breaks down, you only lose 1 player. Clearly SG was a passenger but still deserved a start, however once he was playing it was clear he needed the rest.
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As for Aquilani, if he is on the bench then he should be ready to play, at all costs and situations. If SG had of injured himself 10 minutes in, Aqualani would have been playing, tough titties.
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Is there a power stuggle going on between SG and Rafa where Rafa is using the sink or swim mentality on SG. If your good enough to go somewhere else show them. However at the moment SG is almost half his price, constant injuries, dreadful form, sullen attitude.
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I don’t think I’ve seen Rafa or SG smile since Christmas.
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Ps a mate of mine watched the game on a live streaming computer, however the stream was weak, every now and then a warning would flash across the screen, “The operator apologises for the quality of the game in progress, this issue is being attended to as a matter of priority.” I wonder if that was a direct quote from the club.

i’m fucked off. i had to record the game cos in nz it was on while was at work. looked forward to it all day. finally got to see it and watched what looked like a pub team hoofing the ball aimlessly out of defense, misplacing every pass, receiving the ball with no forethought or idea what to do with it, crossing without bothering to pick anyone out, over-crossing, under-crossing, miss-controlling, shit.

we looked truly terrible, especially in the second half, and incapable of moving the ball around the pitch, a hallmark of our play last year. with no one on the pitch even capable of passing the ball to feet, let alone into dangerous areas, surely the boss is going to bring on aquilani… isn’t he….. um.. rafa…rafa?.. RAFA! for fuck’s sake bring him on now. too late. no pressure. no invention. no chances. points dropped. i’m fuckin fuming.

some good points there Gaz and liked the joke at the end

It’s difficult to see a way out of our plight at the moment – evening stringing together a bit of a run doesn’t seem to make any difference in the way that we are playing – which is to say – pure shite

Jesus we may crawl over the line and finish fourth but do we want to do it playing football like last night?

Where were Aqui, Aurelio and Babel?.1 shot on target in the 2nd half!.As bad as any performance all season.Hope Rafa takes Alberto back to Italy and the club gets it’s money back.Aquilani makes Diouf,Diao and Cheryou look like world beaters.The only player worth keeping looks to be Reina!.After 5 1/2 years Rafa needs a new challenge.We will be lucky to make 60 points.The Reds fans who travelled to the game should have their expenses refunded (from the players wages).

How can you rate Aquilani Burgerman when he’s not playing??? And when he has been playing, he’s been good to even very good (Vs Spurs)

£18 mill is a lot to pay for an attacking midfielder who still hasn’t scored and why wasn’t he used last night?.How much would he fetch if sold?.

Saying he makes Diouf etc look like world beaters is just plain stupid. At least spout with more sense.

Diouf wasn’t permanently unfit/injured, cost £ 8 mill less and scored 2 on his debut.Even Cheyrou scored V Wolves!.Why only 1 sub last night?.Why not give Pacheco a run out?The Feb edition of “The Kop” is well worth a look.

Diouf may not have been injured but Aqua looks 10 times better than he did. I would take a half injured aqua over a fully fit diouf any day!
I am however puzzled with the constant use of 2 holders. Our defense has been so hit by injuries that our focus should be on scoring goals considering how many we have been leaking. I don’t mind a 3-2 or 4-2 scoreline rather than a 1-0 scoreline.
Anyway, I just have to calm down nowadays and not expect too much. Been too disappointed too many times this season already.

Some bang on posts lads, glad to see some eyes opening at last. Its a bit of a relief to be honest, I’m not insane! I’m not the only one! Curiously there are other people who would like to see Liverpool pass the ball, desist with 2 holding players at relegation fodder, and our manager proactively try to win the game rather than settle for not getting beat. At wolves. Who knew eh?

I didnt watch the game but from judging from the comments and seeing the team line up. We had Masch and Lucas in midield. Unfit Gerrard in front of those 2. Kuyt alone up front. Just thinking about that I am wondering just how the fuck we are going to get any creativity through the middle of the pitch.

I have said a million times Masch and Lucas very seldom create anything. When they play together we’re relying on the creativity of Gerrard or Aquilani and the pace of Torres or even Ngog. But to have those 2 in midfield with Gerrard who hasn’t played well since May and Kuyt (who despite his 2 goals against Spurs is no loan striker) – well its just a boring team selection. And I am not surprised the performance and the match was total garbage.

A lot of the time we have no striker when Kuyt is supposed to be playing up front. Especially away from home. He drops deep to help out not realising that if we actually win the ball there is absolutely no outlet.

I am getting tired of hearing about Aquilani getting wrapped in cotton wool. How on earth is he suppose to get match fit and accustomed to the pace and physical nature of the PL when he’s benched every other game. He had his best performance against Spurs and then finds himself on the bench for this entire game while Gerrard who aint fit or playing well gets the nod. This reminds me of the way Babel was used in his first 2 seasons. Until his confidence and latterly his motivation to succeed at the club disappeared.

10 points in 4 games – the confidence should be improving but clearly its 1 step forward and then 2 steps back every couple of weeks.

I am glad I didn’t watch the game.

It seems that we have hit a watershed moment here in this forum – a lot of people seeing how truly awful things have become and how we can no longer hide behind things like bad luck, injuries, the media, beach balls, clash of heads and so on and so on…

It seems Rafa no longer has any belief in himself anymore – putting out teams to merely scrape a win no matter what the oppisition, seemingly incapable of seing whats happening on the pitch and making the changes that need to be made

Yes, we had a fabulous last three months of the season last year but we can’t live in the past…I’m not sure Rafa can get this team playing to anywhere near that level again…

For all the nonsense about Rafa leaving and Juventus on the verge of sending him teh contract, here’s something intresting:

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“This was a third straight defeat for Juve in Serie A, and there were reports yesterday that Juventus’s patron John Elkann was ready to intervene and demand the sacking of the manager Ciro Ferrara, but as yet no action has been taken and there is a growing feeling that the main reason for this is a lack of viable alternatives. Juventus were not prepared to spend the money required to lure Guus Hiddink and that may also rule out many other obvious candidates. Giovanni Trapattoni would be popular but has said he doesn’t want the job, as has Gianluca Vialli – a close friend of Ferrara who said accepting the post would be tantamount to sleeping with the current manager’s wife.

The lingering concern is that Juve only really want a bench-warmer who can sit in until the World Cup, after which many fans expect Marcello Lippi to return. The Italy manager did stop by the club’s training ground this week, along with several others in the peninsula, to check up on a few players, but insisted he spoke about nothing more than the national side. Interestingly enough, the last time Juve lost three games in a row was under Lippi in 1998-99. Lippi, if you were wondering, was replaced by Carlo Ancelotti after the third of those.”

Extract from an article by Paolo Bandini,subeditor for guardian.co.uk, who writes weekly columns on Italian football.

Now if any wiseguy can show me where there’s ANY mention of Rafa in it ….

Actually rather than getting completely depressed after every result I’m starting to get used to it. Holy shit I thought gallows humour was reserved for the likes off Newcastle et al! At the moment were stumbling around like a drunk baby in a playpen. Bouncing from one good result to one crap result.

Our form may have improved but our performances have definitely not. Even though we beat Spurs & there was great effort & desire, there were periods in the second half of the game where we were outplayed & couldn’t string two passes together. So this result shouldn’t come as any great shock.

Stevie has said we came out hoping to nick a 1-0 win….. sorry hello! I know our confidence is brittle at the moment but we’ve spent a considerable fortune on our first team squad compared to Wolves and we should not be going there looking to nick a 1-0 win. This kind of tactic & mindset says everything about the way our team is performing at the moment. Where is the man-management? Where is the motivation and where is the person to instil some self-belief and self-confidence into these players?

The games are running out fast & if we don’t improve soon were fooked. To be honest this season sorrily reminds me of Houllier’s last days at the club.

We have a total lack of creativity in the middle of the park and some of the passes that went astray last night from Masch & Lucas were absolutely diabolical. Yes we have negative tactics at the moment but what really worries me is that when negative tactics are not working there is a complete lack of risk taking to throw an attack minded player into the breach. We (players & management) are so petrified at losing a game at the moment that we refuse to take any risks to try to win a game. Its rendering us impotent & its choking the life out of our play. Holy shit Rafa take some risks & try to win a game….

In the cold light of day – lets look at this so called “bit of a run”

Wolves 2-0: an absolute struggle until they were reduced to 10 men

Aston Villa 1-0: again a match where the result hid the fact that we created NOTHING at all. A battling performance but also quite a lot of luck

Stoke 1-1: the template for which Rafa used against Wolves. A grind – pure and simple against a seriously ordinary team. Could have nicked it at the end with Dirk’s header – but that would have been a miscarriage of justice had we done so.

Spurs: 2-0: Best result of this particular run but had we not got that early goal (which actually began from a hopeful Reina punt) we would have probably lost this game. The real star performers on the night were the magnificent fans who showed passion and loyalty. On the pitch we played counter attacking football at home, were out passed for most of the game and only when Spurs threw caution to the wind did we create any chances.

Wolves 1-1: We don’t need to speak about this travesty any more do we?

The performances in these 5 games are the norm this season not the exception – the only difference is, is that we got a few wins out of them!

I woke up at 3.30am and watched the game. Went back to sleep after half time, bored as hell. Looked into the news on the internet in the morning and was glad I slept through the second half.
Like most of you, I was looking forward to seeing more games from Aquilani, but Rafa did not field him. Well, what can I say?

Well the pitch was certainly wolves biggest ally last night ive seen Sunday League pitches better than that.
Gerrard: Can anyone tell me if he made 1 tackle last night because all i saw was Kuyt dropping back to do his work for him leaving him out of position. Now i know SG can turn a game at any time,i also know that unless he practically subbs himself he’s unlikely to be subbed as Rafa usually receives a backlash from everybody ( inc Gerrard ).
60 mins he subbs SG and we still draw or even worse lose you know what will get said by the media & our “supporters”.
Alternatively keep him on hope he can pull one out of the hat and subb someone else ie Lucas who’s actually playing better than him,it doesn’t make sense but it will appease said “supporters”.
Watershed moments maybe this will be the point that Rafa realises “you cant please all the people all the time”. Ignore the ego’s, armchair managers and press conferences,and just do his job.
After all thats what he came to do.
YNWA

Arthur if your going to give us the benifit of your wisdom in the cold light of day get the results right its all we expect of someone posting comments.
Now im not trying to have a go as we all make mistakes but getting your facts wrong is the only thing that we can get wrong.
Unlike been a manager of a football club which is riddled with opportunities to get it wrong.
Obviously 2 points dropped rather than 1 gained otherwise BM wouldn’t be here offering us his pearls of wisdom.
Where was you after the Spurs game BM ? Who was it you used to play for ? and how long did you cry after the Arse lost to Stoke?.

ah Rome77??? what????

I wasn’t including the FA Cup matches Vs Reading on purpose – so where exactly am I wrong???

and I don’t understand the animosity in your tone either Rome77 “benefit of your wisdom” – kinda laced with sarcasm no??

I don’t know why people get so tetchy when others try to analyse and discuss what is going wrong with the team

Oh sorry I see I had 1-1 for last match Vs Wolves…jesus talk about petty!

CORRECT RESULT WAS 0-0…oh look – its still a draw!!!!

Phew!

http://www.thisisanfield.com/2010/01/27/liverpool-deny-yossi-exit-rumours/

Arthur The point i’m making is we all make mistakes some of us even make them when there’s only 1 mistake to make.
As opposed to the many opportunities to make mistakes been a manager.
Can you imagine been Rafa dealing with all the petty things that have become part of his job,bit of a distraction to say the least and they can lead to further mistakes.
I’m not really having a go i just used your post @103 to try make a point
If i was been petty i may of mentioned the mistake @81 as well.
PS I cant do smileys.
YNWA

I see the fuckin brainless wonder is back.

Rome77 well of course we all make mistakes – but I’m not paid £4 million a year!!! – I’m allowed make typo type mistakes!

also we’re meant to learn from our mistakes…

as a matter of (petty ) interest what is my mistake in post 81?

Rafa – It doesn’t matter what team u start…but you got to change if its not yielding a result…no point in a saying we have a good squad if we dont give them a chance. Lucas, SG needed a rest after an hr…..All we tried yesterday was the long ball….not good

Arthur Go read @ 81 and tell me why you didnt learn from your mistake.
like you say ” we’re meant to learn from our mistakes…”
And they shouldnt need to be pointed out by someone else. It’s annoying for one thing and put’s you in a defensive frame of mind,which can cloud your judgement and lead to more mistakes a bit like @107
@84 You mention “can’t edit posts in this site!” Translate to manager mistake -Cant turn back time.
Anyway like i said @106 we all make mistakes even Rafa.
PS
the redman Before anyone else takes offence and starts WW3 ill take it on the chin and say its a pleasure to be back. Just to keep the peace mind.
YNWA.

err… rome, I think theredman was referring to a certain meat sandwich eater!
But yeah… I see why you took it that way, since it was immediately after your post

Arthur… you type a colon and a bracket to get a smiley like this : ) but without the space. A semi-colon gets you a wink!

Aitch I knew he meant the meat sandwich eater ( At least i think he did ) i was just trying to maintain the peace before anyone else took it personally.We know how people can get tetchy after a what seems like a defeat. ; )
PS I’m definitely not having a go.
YNWA

Now seriously… you’re all expecting champagne football, just coz we scrapped 10 out of 12 and beat Spurs.

Look lads, we are still in the quicksand, and its gonna be a struggle to crawl over the finish line this season. Accept it now.
That’s not defeatist, its just the reality.

When a SWAT team goes up against one or two guys with guns, they send a team of blokes in, by twos or threes, all covering each other.
They are far superior in training , ability, tactics and ususally weaponry, but they still approach the situation cautiosly.

Sure we are superior to Wolves… on paper.
But 11 bruisers, willing to do the graft for 90 minutes, coz they’ve got nothing else going for them in their careers, other than attempting to get a decent result against a top 4 side.

Wolves and their ilk play 38 games in a season and whether they stay up, or get relegated, the only games anyone will remember any of them for, are not they relegation scraps, but the ones against Scum, the Chavs, the Arse and LFC… so yeah, they are gonna put everything they have into it.

That doesn’t excuse our lads, but it does put the game into just a bit of perspective.

When you are in the mire, and trying to claw your way out, you tend to stop doing the one thing that will actually help you get out… play it simple.
You start playing low percentage balls.
You look for the long ball that will put them under immediate pressure.
And you get drawn into a stupid physical game and stop playing your game.
And each thing that goes worng, isn’t an isolated thing… but more weight accumulating on your shoulders.

I can see why people are complaining about Rafa not using his subs… but it wasn’t a decision made to settle for a draw!

It was a decision made to keep faith in the players on the field… in the knowledge that SG, Kuyt, even Riera could pop up with a late goal.

Yes of course, you have to win the game you’re playing right now, but you have to manage your assets, especially when half of those assest are semi-crocked.

Aitch Wolves and the Mancs only play 37 games a season.The spare 3 points go to the Mancs.

AHHH…i dont think anyone expects champange football after the spurs game and im certainly not after rafas head, i do however after the spurs game that we can string more than one pass together and look fucken interested in the game.

with 20 mins to go the body language from lucas masch and a fair few others was like high school ball watchers…5that in itself is hard to understand…the back 4 smacking 40 yard passes that go no where is crap…there is a nice 8-10 yrd pass on , but that would mean movement….we have none. the problem is ive seen these players pass and move get into space and control the ball so often that it makes yesterdays effort extra boring!!, rafa however has to put his hand up and heil us understand why he did nothing..a blind man could tell we were playing badly. oh and just 4 the record…if you cant see aquas potential then i doubt youve ever played football.

you’ve hit the nail on the head redkelly… “then i doubt you’ve ever played football” is something that speaks to a helluva lot more than people’s inability to see Aquas potential.

Believe me, there isn’t a single poster in here, on the “pro-Rafa” side who isn’t just as frustrated at the footabll we’re seeing.

The low percentage ball, when there are 5 better and easier options…
Speculative punts, to nowhere or a player double marked, when other players are open…
Shots from narrow angles when open players are there for the cut-back…
Simple 10 yard passes, corners, free-kicks, possession… all poorly handled or wasted…

It drives me to madness as much as anyone in here…

I read an aweful lot of posts, both when we lose and when we win, that show a total lack of understanding of the game, the situation we find ourselves in, bad pitches, bias, bad or just unsure referees, circumstances.

But all this crap about how we should beat Wolves because they are Wolves and we are LFC, is just nonsense… anyone can beat anyone on any given day… otherwise footy would be one boring fuckin sport!
And EVERYONE loves a giant-killing… except when we’re the giant!

People bang on about which players are fit or not … as though they were at Mellwood yesterday and were privvy to the pre-match discussions about who could, should, would play.

SG was clearly not ready for this game! We have 90 minutes of evidence to make that case.

Aqualani was fit coz he was on the bench… in theory sure… but given he went 120 minutes, only 2 games back from a 5 month lay-off, and our list of walking wounded, maybe he was there to get 10 minutes in the event we went 2-0 up?

And surely everyone would agree, Aqualani is a better tool to use against Everton and Arsenal than Wolves? Actually I’m kidding myself thinking more than a handful of people will have the objective forsight to agree with that idea.

And that is from someone who would actually have considered introducing him on 75 minutes in place of either Masch or SG.
You can make a case for that… but I also see why Rafa didn’t do it.

You can also make a case for using Aqua rather sparingly, rather than throwing caution to the wind and “risking” him in dogfights, as a way to gently ease him into the Prem style, so that when we start the season on even footing next season, he’s fit as a fiddle, firing on all cylinders, and ready to go!
Some would suggest that is giving up on this season… I’d suggest (as frustrating as it might be with 10 minutes left on the clock, on a shite pitch in freezing Wolves) that its asset management.

I’m actually watching a rebroadcast of the game as I type this. We just had a corner cleared and it fell to Insua, 5 yards out, on 88 minutes.
3 Wolves players closed him down and ran him out to the touchline.
Not a single red shirt ran into a position to help… not one… they all just watched the kid get mugged.
That shows a complete lack of confidence and determination throughout the entire team, to me… and we’ve been seeing that for more than just this season.
And just beacuse Rafa doesn’t do a flappy armed rant like a fuckin lunatic on the sidelines, doesn’t mean he’s settling for it, or happy about it.

This squad has serious problems of self belief.
I read them saying all the right things, but a handful of games aside, there seems a complete lack of unity to me… and that is a key component to success… and there’s no magic wand for it, especially in a world full of multi-millionaire, premia-donna, power-broker players.

Its one thing for us as fans, to be banging on about needing better players, but it can’t do the overall squad any good if SG and Torres make statements to the press about how we “need better players.”

Sure it might be true, but that’s no way to motivate your current fuckin teammates… upon whom this seasons results rely.

In my work, I more often than not, have to collaborate with people who put in less than stellar effort or work quality… but I can’t say that to their face (unless they are completely useless of course) or I would get even acceptable quality, level work out of them.

… if you can’t replace them and that’s who you’re stuck with… then you have to cajole them, big them up, tell them how much you enjoy working with them, encourage them, assist them… otherwise you’re fighting a lost cause.

Aitch, while I agree with most of what you write, I am still a believer in the win the game your in, worry about the next one later. I have always thought Rafa was the type of Manager who plans 3-4 games down the track, leaving himself vulnerable to getting beat by lesser teams.
.
Aqualani had 8 days to recover since the Spurs game, he has managed to string together more games than at any other time in the last 4 years, I think he’s averaging 15 a year at the present time. Why buy a 20 million player if what you need in the premiership is a 20 million slugger team. If Aqualani’s not available to play any team outside the top 4, what a waste of money.
.
I agree with you about grinding out performances but flicking between the channels, I found the West Ham/Portsmouth game more exiciting. In fact I thought our game has a look of a doomed to relegation feel about it. Now regardless of what I think, I don’t think my LFC should ever feel, or look like it’s over.

Aitch i agree with all you say about the teams confidence and self beliefe or rather lack of.Saying that there is no easy games in the premier league anymore but what when we`re fighting to achieve this season which is now a top four finish we have to take three points against the likes of wolves because most of our rivals will.

Last night we started with Gerrard,there`s for and against that.Yes he can change a game in one second but it was plain to see after an hour he wasn`t having an influence on the game.I thought at that point that Rafa should have introduced Aquallini to inject a bit more creativity from the middle.Not replacing Gerrard but Masch as i thought his passing was very poor last night.He tried the killer ball to often and too often he got it wrong.
Hindsight is indeed a wonderful thing by the way but if Aquallini had come on i thought he might have got Gerrard into the game more.He has a bit more guile about him.
I actually don`t mind Rafa resting him for Gerrard he has played a fair bit in last 5 or 6 games but i`d have liked to see him get 25 minutes or so.Rafa may have had faith in the lads grabbing a winner but for me we were too one dimensional in our play.

I`m a big Rafa supporter because i think he is indeed the best man we could have at the present but he`s not immune to critisism either,once constructive of course.

Just seen this post on another site and its interesting analysis on the way we are playing.

A good point imo.

“When Rafa came to the club the first observation he made was how deep we defended and made it his priority to get the team to defend 10 metres further up the field.

Rafa’s idea was to copy the way the great Milan side of the late 80′s set up, and in its very basic principle the idea was to push the back four forward with every negative ball the oppostion played. As an example if our defensive starting point was on the 18 yard line and the oppostion played the ball backwards the back four would squeeze forward 5 yards, that would free our midfielders to squeeze closer to the ball and hopefully push the oppostion back, make them surrender possesion or catch the oppostion off-side.

We would look to win the ball higher up the field and start to counter attack from a more advanced position, meaning we can try and ‘control’ the game and not have to play football in dangerous areas of the field.

The last 3 league games i have seen our back four retreat to the 18 yard line and not budge, this has created a huge gap between our defence and attack. The knock on effect is our midfielders have to much space to close down and its easier for the oppostion to knock the ball around them, it also invites pressure on to our back four. When we are winning the ball back, we are doing so in dangerous areas of the field, and with our safety first policy we are just ‘hoofing’ the ball forward and away from danger.

So as the ball is travelling 30 yards upfield we have two forwards who are not only expected to win the ball but are also expected to hold it up whilst the midfield make up the meteres to support them. If possesion is lost the oppostion then has loads of grass to run into to counter attack and although teams are not hurting us with this tactic its allowing the clock to run down. Our midfielders who are chasing forward to support the attack are then chasing back to prevent the counter, and this continues until the ref puts us out of our misery”

I wouldn’t disagree with any of that really timmy and gaz.

Though I would say… we must remember that this is nmost definitely not a “normal” season and not a “normal” situation to be in.

Why buy a 20 million payer? Because we need one… not just for this season, but for the next 5.
Yes of course, we need to be thinking about THIS game… but as manager it is also his job to think about the next game… then 2 months from now… next season.
(every manager looks at the fixture list ahead… whether they “look” like they are doing it or not… the ones that don’t get shit-canned and end up applying for vacancies at the likes of Burnley, Wigan and Sunderland.)

We don’t always see that… but we can’t have it both ways… we can’t be baying for Pacheco to be given a run and then ignore the fact that 3 years ago, Rafa bought him and nurtured him to get him to this point… and based on what we’ve seen in glimpses, if Rafa CONTINUES to handle him right, he’ll be a gem…. 2 years from now we’ll be praising that… (maybe?)

Well the same goes for Aqualani… of course its frustrating to not see him NOW, pulling up trees and making a difference… but maybe by taking care of him this season (a season that is perhaps already lost?) (and no I’m not conceding, I’m just saying, its big picture thinking as opposed to “the next 10 minutes is everything” and then he hobbles off maybe?) we just might see the best of him next season.

People complain about Rafa’s trreatment of Alonso… but let’s face (what appears to be a)fact… it sure looks like the rumors of selling him to Juve, lit a fire under his arse and we got the best out of him for a season, before he fucked off to Real… which he was well likely to have done anyway.

and timmy… earlier in the season… SG walked the park for 80 minutes… did fuck all, but give the ball away every time it came to him, hardly put in a decent tackle… then in the last 10 minutes he picked up a nothing ball 20 yards out and banged in the winner. It was nothing more than a half-chance potshot… but it bagged the 3 points.

… But a few seaosn ago, Rafa hauled SG off versus Everton of all teams … to an absolute uproar… enhanced by the fact that it was Lucas who was taking his place…. a few minutes later Lucas hits a goalbound effort that is handled on the line (essentially the winner) which is then converted by Kuyt from the spot and we win.

Just two examples, but is it really an easy decision to make?
Haul a half-fit, non-contributing SG off, or leave him on?

I don’t think so and I’m glad I don’t have to make those decisions.

True Aitch we`re all great managers AFTER the game.Should have did this,that whatever.

Rafa does have a tough job on his hands with the media disecting every little move he makes.He`s is almost always in a catch 22 situation.Dammed if he does and dammed if he dosen`t.

Even when we do win he never gets the credit either it s always the oul “their goosed without SG and FT” when either win a game for us.

Aitch i hear what your saying and you make good points….yes aqua has been playing alot o mins but theres something to be said for momentum and clearly aquas been finding some, im fine with aqua on the bench…rafa knows whats goin on with players both in the dressin room and on the trainin pitch!….however agianst wolves he must have easily seen the problems ngogg came on and made a slight diffrence..thats when to pull masch…drop steve back to midfield , let lucas hold and aqua in the hole ….looks good with kyut back on the right…i would have pulled maxi off and left reira on as he looked suprised and reasonably fresh when pulled, i trust the gaffer i really do….but rafa always says he is concentrating on 1 game at a time……not the next game or next season..his words, so against wolves try something to inspire a little bit o magic.

Read the blog and sort of skimmed through the comments. Not ignoring them, just too many to catch up on. But the blog reminded me of something…
Last night I went the pub to watch the match. It was the only one in the area that was showing it. It was on some Italian Sky channel.

God only knows what the Italians must have thought of that heap of shit on a stick and Aquilani being snubbed for Gerrard. But anyway…

I was made up when I walked in the pub. There was an old friend of mine standing at the bar who I haven’t seen in ages. You’d think the lad was 40 to look at and in his 30′s to listen to. Great company, a right case. He could make a cat laugh. But he’s 62 and an old hand Boys Pen/Kopite.

We sat down at kick off, and hardly said a word to each other until we went for a ciggie at half time. We had a good moan, went back for the second half, realised it was going to be the same story and started reminising…

Turns out we was both in the Molinuex when we won the league there in 75/76 and we both went to the UEFA cup final after that against Brugge. And we made plans to go to Hamburg together if we make it.

Other than that, it was one twat of a night. We are defending far too deep. We desperately need Torres and Gerrard shouldn’t play if he isn’t fully fit. It was also a game too early for Rodriguex. All mistakes by Rafa, but then am I right….
I don’t really know, as I don’t have all the info. But I do know the only thing I can do as a supporter, is carry on supporting and believing as there is no real alternative. The result of proper support is there for all to see against Spurs.

Other than that, I have no real explanation as to why we just aren’t clicking and this horrible season is dragging on and on. All I can say is, a couple of months ago we’d have lost that game. And though it was a docker’s arse ugly performance of launch ball, we dug deep and refused to lose.

That in it’s self is a bit of a relief from what was happening earlier in the season and the only way to get out of this horrible slump we are in.

And the point of all that… that’s the conclusion both me and me aul mate made. That’s roundabout a hundred years of watching LFC between us. And you know what…
Give me that lad’s opinion over the likes of BM any bloody day.

Oh and as for the press being anti-LFC…
http://www.anfieldroad.com/images/stories/hillsborough/sun_the_truth.jpg

End of. Case closed.

Nice to have you back FS.

redkelly, as I said, I was sitting there myself, saying, either sub SG, or drop him back into midfield and get Masch off, pull Maxi into the hole and either put Deggen up the right (and I seriously think he’s shite, but give him his due, his first thought when he gets the ball is to storm forward and get 10 yards into their half before looking up to see what to do with the ball… but then usually does fuck all with it ) or to switch Kuyt wide right while putting Ngog upfront.

I don’t necessarily disagree with any of your suggestions… But like I said… I can see why Rafa chose only to introduce Ngog… and let’s face it, he did make 3 very interesting surges forward, but then wasted the final ball… it don’t matter who else was subbed on, when that happens.

Confidence is fragile right now and anyone pulled off is going to be affected.
But Riera is 2 x 70 minute performances back from an injury that has seen him back, then re-injured, back then re-injured and now back again… so I don’t care how disappointed or puzzled he looked… yes, at 75 minutes, get the fucker off and give him a hot towel!

Like I said, SG is another matter. (same with Torres, who has put in at least 4 games of shite no-real-contribution footy this season, in between injuries, but you stick with him coz the lad only needs 6 seconds to change your world)
SG leads by example, but at the moment his example is crap. But taking him off, is the toughest of tough calls.

And I know it didn’t happen in this game, but in previous games people have complained about defensive line-ups or substitutions….
… like introducing Deggen at right half, or Aurelio on the left… err… neither of which is actually a defenesive substitution… isn’t settling for a draw, its stabilizing the defense… which is the basis upon which you attack.

Ahahah Arthur your comments made me laugh, at you not with you.

in 103# you stating we would have probaly lost that game. You sound like BM. Even when we win, you state we should have lost it just to bump up your argument. Ohh and the fans were fantastic, luckily they werent fans like you.

Noone is debating about last nights performance, we are in the deep shite. If you think injuries and the events ofd the field this season have had no impact, then think again.

Aitch good call mate.

Like I said earlier, I wouldnt have played a half fit Stevie. Its sometimes like FT, when he is unfit or not in form. Sometimes you dont take him off cause the team as a unit doesnt seem like scoring but FT can have 6 seconds and turn the game on its head.

Same with Stevie, he could have hit a volley from outside the box.

As for Aqua, I would have started him or at least subbed him for SG. But as pointed above, maybe the team itself didnt have any drive and it needed to have SG on for that moment of brilliance.

On a final note, does anyone think Aqua was carrying a knock? He did hold his ankle after Kuyts goal vs Spurs. Just a thought.

Akka, if he was carrying a knock, he wouldn’t have been on the bench, you would think.
.
Well discussion going well about the game, here is another point. When Mcarthy played a weakened team at United, everyone and his dog had an opinion. He should play his top 11 regardless, his thinking was beat the teams around us and we stay up.
.
Well it seems like all the banter coming out of the club is must make 4th spot, so does it not allow the thought that team below us we must beat and forget about team like United and Chelsea, as there so far in front of us, it’s not really going to claw us back. However winning against teams like Portsmouth, Fulham and Wolves will put us in the frame for 4th spot. Then if we’re beating the likes of Spurs, Villa and City, bobs your uncle.
.
Maybe it’s time to re-assess who we must beat rather than save players for games we want to win. Lets face it 6th place is looking more likely than 4th, at the moment. Just a thought, what do you lads think.

Akka did you see aqua standing near the bench stretchin with about 11 mins to go….there was no way that look said injured to me, i could be wrong and only they know but it was the same look crouchy had when left standing.

Aitch..fair enough about reira he has been prone…and i understand the few secs it takes for stevie or torres to change the game…its just our midfield were awol so somebody needed to come off, masch was passing like a blind man so he seemed the obvious choice,

Red-Kelly, whilst im not disputing if he was or wasnt injured, he may have had a knock.

Now correct me if I could be wrong about Babel.

But from what I know (or what i dont know), if a player gets transferred and sold, but hasnt had a certain number of appearances/being in the squad for the current club, the previous club gets part of the proceeds of the sale.

Otherwise I wouldnt even keep him on the bench.
Unless its Rafas way of getting him hungry. Ie he is working hard in trainings now, and Rafa puts him on the bench but doesnt play him (signalling he needs to work even harder).
I know its unlikely, but one wants to hope.

Akka i think your right about number of appearances in regards to transfer fees…i read we have the same with aqua in regards to the amount we pay roma.in regards to babel i just have no clue to what rafa is doin with him..if on the bench he should be fit otherwise its crazy ….if yor there just for cover then ur needed and carrying a knock ?????…1 things for sure he does need to work harder!

I see tottenham havce signed Gudjohnsen on loan for the rest of the season. How many strikers do they want? Maybe we can poach pavluchenko (spelling?) for the rest of the season?

rome77,
apologies mate did not intend to start ww3, but where are these people when we win?.
Did not see the game, just listened to paul loadsoflager mearson reporting and you could see the arsole just praying for a wolves win, anyway watching him coupled with reading a certain poster(easy on the onions)had to vent something at someone.
YNWA.

There we go again Akka re your post # 130…questioning my loyalty etc etc. I merely stated that had we not got off to such a great start Vs Spurs, we would have had Kuyt huffing and puffing up all on his own and we wouldn’t have been able to play the counter attacking game that ultimately brought us victory that night. Coupled with a bit of luck getting Defoes goal disallowed, you can see that that result could have been very different

But my main point was to illustrate that we haven’t been playing to anything near our potential even during this so called “run” we’re on (unbeaten since the Portsmouth game in the league)

Who would be a manager of Liverpool today? I think he got it wrong but again that is easy after the fact. I see Bowl Movement is back again after a poor result.

I wonder if anybody has ever spoken to Carra and explained to him that he cannot pass the ball so it would be better to make a shorter simpler pass to some one who can. Mind you not many could on the evidence that I saw.

I think we need to realize it is going to be a long boring hard slog to get back to where we were last year.

The pitch was atrocious but it did not excuse the lack of creation or urgency. Personally I think Ngog is a better option upfront that Kuyt, especially against a defensive team and I would have liked to see Maxi or Degen at right back instead of Carra with Gerrard on the right and Aquilani behind the striker. I just wish Rafa would have changed it around a bit when he realized we only had one shot on goal in 60 minutes. Hind sight is a wonderful thing.

Then again if we had nicked a goal we would all have been happy.

Re-#136 Arman I think it’s so the Reds can’t get him.

Not sure whether this article has been read by other fans in here, but looks damn good research to me, a typical Tomkin’s piece:

http://tomkinstimes.com/2010/01/some-rafa-benitez-facts-and-record/

Yeah Gerry – Gudjohnsen has gone to Spurs, I remember you mentioning him as an option for us. Apparently he’s coming in as replacement for playmaker Dos Santos, rather then as striker. I’ve seen him do well in that position but apparently he’s been crap in France.

Snubbed his old mate Zola and has infuriated the new hammers owners but apparently he’s a boyhood Tottenham fan.

I sat through the Wolves game again. Chore above and beyond the call of duty that, but I wanted to study it and see what is really happening. One thing became absolutely clear….
Both Rafa and the team had only one intention – not getting beat.

Yes. I know that’s not what any of us want, but that’s the fact of it. And it’s no use carrying on like a tart, crying we are LFC we should be battering teams like this.

The reality of the situation is, we are still clawing our way out a terrible slump and this is how Rafa sees us getting out of it. I’m not happy about it, but I tend to agree.

If you watch that game again, we actually play some decent fast passing football for the first 15 to 20 minutes but we can’t keep it up. The pitch, form and confidence won’t allow it. And we sink to Wolves level… launch ball.

For what it’s worth, this is what I made of it…
The defence is defending far too deep, which means the central midfield is pushed further and further back to help out, leaving a huge gap between midfield and attack. So the forward players are dropping deeper and deeper to pick up the ball.

This is the exact opposite of the way we play we played last season, and it’s all down to lack of confidence, loss of form and injuries. This will clear up, but it’s easy to see why it’s happening…
The defence is too deep, scared of getting caught out, the midfield closes the gap, the attack falls back on that, but the defence launches the ball forward, mostly losing possesion, and so the cycle begins again. It’s like desperation defending/play in the last ten minutes of a cup final with a one goal lead.

Why the fuck people insist on calling Lucas a holding mid and saying he’s too much like Mascher is beyond me. He’s nothing of the sort, and that’s not the problem anyway…
Whereas last season, the defenders would just play short to Alonso and let him build the attack, they don’t have the same confidence in Lucas or Masch and so launch it forward. The lack of confidence works both ways though…
Masch doesn’t trust the defence so hardly strays a few yards ahead of them. Lucas doesn’t trust them so comes back too deep instead of pressing on, and they just launch the ball over them anyway. But like I said, with Kuyt, Riera and Maxi having to drop deep we just end up losing the ball and so the cycle begins again.

And that also explains why Rafa went with Gerrard instead of Aquilani. Rafa is no bottler. If he thinks a player needs to be dropped, he’ll do it no matter who they are. I believe he never used Aquilani because of something I’ve noticed with the lad…
Watch how he immeadiately knocks the ball forward at every occasion. It’s not a weakness in his game. Eventually it’s going to be a great weapon for us, and add a whole new dimension to our game in the final third of the pitch and in central midfield. But at the moment, it’s not working and that’s not Aquilani’s fault.

The lad’s got great vision and technique, but due to the way we are playing, his fast first touch passes into space for the forwards to attack aren’t coming off. Because they aren’t reading them and are too far withdrawn to get on the end of them.

So Aquilani has been overcompensating, dwelling on the ball, waiting for the run, and coming under pressure, so losing the ball or playing a pressurised pass that leads to the loss of the ball.

This will all be sorted on the training pitch, and once we have a fully fit team, all firing and reading off the same page, it will be a great bonus to us. I can see Torres thriving on them quick balls into space – think of the 3 last Man U games, ball into space, Torres chasing it down, burning off the defenders with ease. Mark my words… when it clicks, it’s going to be a huge part of our game and wonderful to watch. But right now, it’s a bit of a liability.

And I could go on, but this is long enough and there’s only one real question to be asked about it…
Does Rafa just say fuck it, and take the gamble, or does he carry on in this vein… setting up the team as not to get beat, but dull as dishwater, and hoping on nicking the odd goal to get all 3 points?

Well, with there being so much at stake, I think we are in for some horrible scrappy games over the next few weeks.

That’s not down to the ridiculous press claims that Rafa is a defensive coach. That’s entirely down to the practicallities of our situation…
We have to reach 4 spot because of the money. It’s as easy as that.

I see people asking about transfers and how they are affected by sell on clauses due to the amount of appearances. Well, the money brought in by selling Vronin and Dosenna has already been used to pay the January installment on Aquilani’s fee, and it would have been more if the lad had played more games.

I don’t think that’s why Rafa has used him so sparingly. I do think that’s down to what I have just said about the state of our play. But who knows. It wouldn’t surprise me if it had been one of the considerations.

The yanks are lying about huge investment in the summer again. But already Rodriguez’s fee and wages have come out of next summer’s fund, and Pepe’s incresed contract (if he ever gets it) will come out of the fund an all.

And this is why people really should stop and think before screaming after a hard fought draw and a point gained in trying to secure more money for next season.

Rafa is no bloody fool. He’s forgot more about the game in a nap than any of us mugs will learn in a lifetime. The fact is, he knows exactly what he is doing and what is going on, but he has much more to consider than the likes of BM screaming for his entertainment. And before any of us start moaning, we should also consider what he is working against.

Look at LB’s attitude towards all this. I shouldn’t speak for him, but I have a point I want to make…
LB was once one of Rafa’s biggest detractor’s on this site. But once it all became apparent what Rafa is working with and against, he re-adjusted his opinion because he realised just what a mess we are in and what a great job Rafa is actually doing against such terrible odds.

It’s a lead some others round here really should take or at least pay some heed to. There is far more at stake here than your need for entertainment.

Good comment FS but I fundamentally disagree – I think if we continue to play in the manner we are currently playing, we’re going to drop more and more points (just like we did against Stoke and Wolves). I’m all for scraping against the likes of Spurs, Villa, Everton etc but our team and squad IS better than the likes of Wolves and Stoke and playing cautionary tactics merely plays into their hands (and this is not me saying “Oh we’re LFC..and we should be steam rolling teams” – this is a fact – our 11 should be beating Wolves and their ilk)

And as for the Aquilani issue FS – you never touched on the fact that he should have been introduced when Gerrard was clearly struggling. Why was only one sub used? To me Rafa was happy with a point at Molineux and for me that is not acceptable. These are major concerns I have over Rafa’s decision making at present.

As for whether or not Lucas is a holding midfielder or not..well if he’s not a defensive type midfielder – what is he? He doesn’t score and his passing is average at best. How many assists does he have this year? Don’t get me wrong he’s had his best season in a Red’s jersey – but in my eyes he should never really be in a Red’s jersey…and he’s played over 100 games now!!! the mind boggles

Good to read the analysis Aitch, FS and the usual gang. Quite understandable to see frustration however it is pretty much as the lads have called it, a long grind out of the mud.

Now I won’t harp on about how unlucky we’ve been with injuries but would it have made a difference if we’d had a FULLY FIT Aurelio, Gerrard, Torres, Benny, Riera, Johnson, Aquilani, Maxi and Agger to add to the team ?
I think so.

Instead we have a right full back who is a slow hoofing) centre half these days. We have 2 centre halves with confidence and pace issues and a tendency to hoof. A left full back out of the ressies in at the deep end and badly in need of a break.
Lucas is not a defensive midfielder in the Mascher mode, yet he’s pressed into that role. Gerrard off form and unfit. Maxi, unfit, having his first start of the season and Riera having his second start in ? months. Upfront Kuyt, surely the most confused footballer ever to play for Liverpool. It’s more a question of where he hasn’t played than where he has.

Yet we have the godgiven right to expect 3 points against Wolves ?

I think Arthur that we are all very frustrated by this and no-one likes watching hoofball, at least we don’t anyway. However thats where we’re at right now and there is more to come. At least we are in with a shout for 4th because that’s the very most were gonna get out of this season…. if we are very very lucky.

Arthur read the comment again… I said, I think it was obvious that Rafa set the team out not to lose. So yes, it can be said he settled for a point.

But I don’t think that was the case. I think we went there to win. Watch the first 15 to 20 minutes of the game. I didn’t have to watch it again to know that we played some good football. There was only one team playing proper footy and looking to win. But once we couldn’t break through you could see all the old familiar problems set in….
Dropping to deep in all departments and playing hopeful balls up top or into the channels for players to run on to… that’s not exactly hoof ball. It’s pretty much the game Martin O’Neil has built a career on and is rated as one of the top British managers for.

But even when we reverted to that, it was still in the hope of nicking a goal and winning the game.

Obviously that’s not ideal, and it’s not what any of us want. But a month or so ago, we would have probably lost that game. So, it’s up to you…

Point gained or two dropped?

At the end of the season, I think it will be looked at like a point gained.

You ask about substitutions. Well, look at what we had on the bench….
Cavalieri, Aquilani, Babel, Degen, Darby, NGog.

Rafa made the one attacking substitution. He trusted the most in form attacker – who has been scoring. Do you really think he could chance going all out and risking defeat…
FFS Arthur mate, you have to stop and realise lad, there is far more at stake than entertaining you.

Should Rafa have gambled on Aquilani, Babel or Pacheco? Who should have tugged for them? You’ll no doubt say Gerrard but out of everyone on that pitch, whether fully fit or playing well or not, he is the one man that you can relie on to win a game like that.

Obviously, I can’t prove that we would have lost the game if Rafa had made another two changes. But neither can you prove that we would have won it.

And to be brutally honest, who do I trust more in team selection… some mugs in a forum or Rafa?

Case closed there, I think.

As for Lucas, I’m not even going to bother arguing that one any more. As you say, he’s had over 100 games now and if you can’t see anything in him, I doubt you ever will. But once again, all I can say is… who do I trust as the better judge, well it’s got to be Rafa again.

But I’m not just being a twat and playing the manager trump card. I actually rate the lad. I can see what he brings to the team, but the kid isn’t able to exactly show it while the team is playing like this and the defence constantly lump the ball past him instead of letting him play it out.

Anyway, I’m going to take a break again now because I’m tired of all this. I’ve said all I can and now I’m just boring meself. Why don’t people understand we are in this position for one reason….
The Owners.

And yes, of course that involves what’s going on on the pitch. Why didn’t Rafa make the substitutions you are all screaming when I think the question should be…
Why didn’t we have the likes of Crouch and Bellamy on the bench, nevermind the players like Villa that got away.

So no. Of course I’m not bloody happy at going to Wolves and fighting for a point. But at least I understand why we are in that situation and who is to blame for it.

Haha – Ferdinand banned for 4.
Life still has some simple pleasures to offer, especially since this will also add an even deeper shade of purple to trampys face and as bonus he’ll continue to wage war on sly

Yeah, if only they’d gotten dumped out the Cup… would have given Citeh something else to concentrate on… them having one eye on a final would have helped us out a bit I think.
Scum will want to win it, but it won’t mean as much to them… they’ll take a CC final in their stride… whereas Mancini and the Citeh players would have gone all out.

Citeh-Villa would have been the better final for the neutrals to watch too.

Once again I find myself, for the most part, agreeing with FS.
I too watched the game twice and its the same old story.
Get an early goal, like against Spurs, and things are completely different. (no early goal against Spurs and we could have lost that one, let alone got a draw, but we got it, settled nerves, put the pressure on them and won.)
Even last season that was true… most of the games we won (especially comfortably) came because we got an early goal… when we didn’t we struggled.

Authur I don’t wanna gang up on you but in #144 you say
“but our team and squad IS better than the likes of Wolves and Stoke”
I’m wondering on the basis of what evidence you make that statement?
Sure we beat Stoke 4-0 in the 2nd game of the season, but that was before the real true rot of injuries and bad form had set in, but even the 2-0 home win against Wolves was a battle…
…and since we drew both return games, with hardly our strongest 11 and even some of those off-form, returning from injury and a forced reshuffling of team positions its typical “we are LFC” arrogance to suggest that “our squad IS better than” their ilk.

Its all well and good using a paper edit to make these statements, but that flies in the face of current evidence.

We are no longer The Mighty Reds of old.
It fuckin pains me to say it, but that really is an inescapable fact…. right now.
Now don’t get me wrong… I like FS… believe we will be again… and soon… and under Rafa… but this season, far from it.

So yes… “playing cautionary tactics” is exactly what is required right now.

And yes… I’d agree as a die hard, that “we’re LFC..and we should be steam rolling teams” but that’s hope my friend and not fact.

“this is a fact – our 11 should be beating Wolves and their ilk”
I’ll agree with that statement at the beginning of next season, when all’s equal and the only occupant of Mellwood’s infirmary is Aurelio.
(come on now, I like the lad, but you know that’s one constant we can count on
(and I’d have added Deggen, but I reckon he’ll be gone )

Aitch mate, if I may dive in here, ‘on the basis of what evidence do you make this statement?’. Well, we finished 2nd last yr whilst they were in the championship (a place they’ll soon be revisiting) works for me. Add to this we’re 5th, they’re 3rd(?) from bottom as another indicator. Or how about soccernomics? The oft cited bible of Rafa apologists states that more expensively assembled squads with higher wage bills are implicitly ‘better than’ the poorer teams (read wolves, stoke, pompey, reading….)

Not trying to be a smart arse Aitch, its just the excuses mate….the endless infinite litany of empty hollow excuses….on and on and on….surely you dont believe this stuff? Do you?? I hope not. I hope its a defensive reaction done out of pride and a sense of protection for your team. I dunno mate. I think theirs gonna be a lotta disappointed posters in here come May. And it wont be cos we’re 5th or 6th.

I just don’t get it…. Rafa appologists!

What the fuck does that man have to appologise about?

He is one of the top coaches in the world, and is just about the only man in world football who could work under such circumstances and keep us afloat nevermind competing at the top end of the division and bring us the success he has.

One thing plain though – I’m not having a go at Arthur. He’s completely right…. Rafa’s LFC should be going to Wolves and coming away with all 3 points.

But while we are in this slump of confidence and form, and we’re also without Torres, Yossi, Agger and Johnson we are not going to go to any team and simply brush them aside…
certainly not a fully fit, well organised battling team that are treating the game as their cup final and being pushed on by a kunt like McCarthy who would like nothing more than to add to our woes.

And yes, soccernomics is the reason for this… or we wouldn’t be reduced to having a bench made up of kids and bargain basement players.

Yes. I know Babel and Aquilani aren’t kids who cost fuck all. But Babel is a lost cause there to do nothing more than make up numbers and keep him in the shop window so hopefully we can get some sort of dosh for him. And like I said, Aquilani is a luxury we can’t afford to gamble on just yet. But anyone with half a brain can see what a player he is going to be when he is up to speed and his team mates are on the same wavelength.

But this being Kop Blog, Aquilani should be sold and all logic and fact is to be ignored because people aren’t getting their entertainment.

I really am going back into hibernation now, as I truly can’t stand going through this childish nonsensical drivel at every setback.

But here’s why I came back in…
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/jun/08/euro2008

It’s for the people who understood the soccernomics link, so I’m not going to say anything about why I’m posting it pertaining to ourselves.

The people I’m posting it for will understand it and what it has to do with us. And the rest can carry on screaming sack Rafa, bring in Jose Hiddink or Gus Maureen and get some proper strikers like Larson up front.

Wow FS is Larson available on a free, get him in then.

Thats a very interesting read FS.

It does seem thats the model Rafa is striing to bring us to.We seen signs of it last year when we went on that brilliant run to the end.

People think Torres up front on his own is defensive just don`t understand the game.Essentially we have attackers from all over when its clicking.Rafa probably plans to have Aquallini ahead of mash closer to SG.When Torres dropps off they become the focal point with deep runs into the box.
Three examples of that kind of movement i can think of off the top of me head is the first minute at westham last season when torres came deep as lucas recieved the ball with stevie already on his way to take the pass from torres and leave the hammers defenseless.
The other two times were at old toilet first to win the penalty for 2-1 and second was when vidic halled down Gerrard for Aurellio`s free.Gerrard was on his way there two.
When it clicks its almost in defensible.

Someone else would probably be more qualified to explain but i`d love to see Rafa put this together.Only them two dicks Gillette and hicks are tying his hands behind his back.Thats the most annoying aspect,we know there is so muh more in this manager if he`s given the chance.

Have a rye smile at this,we can be there again.Have faith!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Acxqn05PWXE&NR=1

Sorry FS but I do want “entertainment” as a spectator. To me there is too much thinking involved nowadays and it gives me a headache, I don’t want to be a team manager – just an “enjoyer”. Mind you I do shout at the TV mate!

A Rafa-apologist is someone who, despite all reasoning to the contrary, continues to propogate every and any excuse imaginable in an attempt to disguise Rafael Benitez’s shortcomings. Its a term thats applicable to say, someone who would suggest that the reason for our nil nil draw at Molineux was the fault of the owners. Now, how the owners are responsible for a style of football resembling Wimbledon circa 1989 or leaving 31mil pounds worth of attacking talent on the bench whilst the game before you peters out to a nil nil draw, well, thats puzzling to most people but not a Rafa-apologist. A Rafa-apologist has his excuses ready to go for every abject inept display. But, and this is classic, when we win, its all because of Rafa! Brilliant! But lose, and you can be damn sure its every man and his dogs fault but Rafas. That, my friend, is a Rafa-apologist. Not Rafa having to apologise for anything. Though he probably should for Tuesday.

Of course Arthurs right. Of course we should be going to Wolves and coming away with 3pts. Whats more damning though is we should be going there and PLAYING for 3ts. Rafa played for a draw and got it. Sickening. Watching Aquilani warming up on the sideline toward the end of the game with a bemused look on his face brought back memories of of similar circumstances last year with Hull holding us 2-2 at Anfield while a certain 20mil stiker warmed up on the sideline with an equally bemused look on his face. Needless to say said striker wasnt introduced. Nor at the Brittania in another must win game for us (but it was a must not lose game for our manager given his facts speech the day before) that slipped away on the back of unforgivably negative tactics. This is not a recent or current phenomenon unfortunately. It’s the managers modus operandi. ‘Controling’ the game dosent equate to winning the game I’m afraid. How he could sit there and watch that mundane head tennis without the thought that ‘hang on, maybe, just maybe, if I put on a ball playing midfielder and remove one of those 2 serial move killers, and put the pacy Babel up front to run onto some of his passes, maybe, just maybe we might alter the inevitable course of this game and turn it in our favour’. Now, I know its a long shot that introducing a couple of attackers into a game might result in a win, never happened before as far as I know, but………
Shocking. Just shocking. Well, not to me. Not anymore anyway. As I said I’ve seen this movie before. And as disappointing as it is to watch groundhog day again (Rafa, not the movie!) its even more disappointing to see the excuses continue to pour forth. Actually truth be told I genuinely worry for some. Such collective denial can not be healthy. I truly wonder sometimes if I’m watching the same events as some in here. How anyone can excuse a Liverpool manager for not going for the 3pts at a relegation threatened team, a team that had lost 3 on the bounce, a team thats scored the least goals in the league this year, how anyone can condone playing for a point at European powerhouse Wolves and not at least trying, at least fucken trying, to win the game is simply staggering. Just staggering. And imdeed worrying. Is this how far our expectations of our manager and team have fallen? That we’re content to make excuses for and be satisfied with a point at Wolves? Aquilanis a luxury we cant afford to gamble on yet? Are you fucken kidding me?! We could afford to gamble 20mil on an injured player who averages 16 games a season but we cant afford to throw him on for 20mins to see if he can unlock a championship bound defence?! He was man of the match at Spurs, set up the goal that sent us on our way, but he’s a luxury we cant afford to gamble on at Wolves?! Meanwhile Mascherano and Lucas are having a game of blind mans bluff out on the pitch but we cant gamble on our 20mil pound playmaker?!?! Jesus Christ man…… I’ve read some absolute laugh out loud stonkers over the course of the last few seasons but thats just plain……troubling. In fact, thinking about it now, it couldent be real, you couldent mean it, wait……AHHHH! You old fox! It was a wind up! Ya got me again! Dammit! Sorry mate, just forget the above.
(walks away chuckling: ‘wow, it was a joke all the time! I totally knew…totally….ok I dident ….)

The sack Rafa brigade are “supporters” who despite all reasoning and facts to the contrary, continues to propogate every media fed lie and inaccuracy and they’ll use any excuse imaginable to criticise Rafa.
When presented with the facts they will usually dismiss them in favour of some TV pundit/ Media mouthpiece. They will critice and tell you what they’d of done,but only with hindsight,and the lack of information on fitness and attitude of the players.
They will dismiss things like injurys,bad luck,bad referee’s,lack of transfer funds because it doesn’t fit their agenda.
They will usually disappear after a win or just write a couple of lines about how happy they are.
They will ALWAYS appear after a loss or whats deemed a failure, sometimes to comment in a kneejerk,”i told you so” fashion. Sometimes its a long list of thing’s they’ve been waiting for the right time to post.
You usually end up feeling they want us to fail so they can be right
“Long Knives Short Memory’s ” Is how one guy put it.
YNWA

FS I read that “End of Forward Thinking” last season and the system does have its qualities but its relying on having World Class Midfielders and Strikers willing to defend and work for the Team.
Some will say its playing Strikers out of position ie Keane,Kuyt,Babel,but you end up with more goals spread out between more players.
Last season my lads U10 team played against a good team we used a 2-3-1 formation, and won it 3-2 our striker got 3 goals.
We played them again a few weeks later using a 2-4-0 formation ,and Won it 7-1 with all 4 midfielders and 1 defender scoring. Basically we got our striker who liked to goal hang ,never tackle and rarely pass, ( in his defence he did score 96 goals last season) to help out with midfield duties and get involved And it worked a treat what had been a hard fought victory in the first game, quite literally became a walk in the park.
The 4 points gained from the 2 games won them the league,the nearest competitors was the same team. They finished 4 points behind.
YNWA

The way the club played against Wolves I wouldn’t be suprised to find Rafa may walk, very soon. Niether him nor SG could muster a smile all day. There just doesn’t seem to be any direction at the moment, just bobbing in the tide, something has to give.
.
Dig we have had some terrible luck this year, the owners have stripped budgets and god knows what cash. We have had a serious injury list which has been continuing. So all in all it’s been a battle. Alas though it’s up to the lads and Rafa, but when we have been watching games with no driver or zest then it’s up to him to sort that out.
.
I still think he’s got the look of someone who’s leaving. Remember he left his last team for the same reasons (budgets and money)
.
However like everyone who wears Red, I will continue to support until he’s out the door, then I’ll say well done and thanks for all your effort, that’s the very least we should do.
.
Oh and as an after thought, I watch football for entertainment, sorry but I love watching the game.

I see the usual debates are raging, some good points from both sides and as much as it contributes to my constipation Digger has, for a change, got some valid points.

Yes hind sight is a wonderful thing and we are not privy to how the players have trained or indeed if they are carrying a slight knock and are on the bench as emergency cover.

The way this season has panned out, leaking goals in injury time as well as all the disruptions our catastrophic injury list has caused us, I can understand the not loosing approach to build up the confidence, but does a draw against a relegation bound team give us confidence, or does it increase the pressure?

Yes the pitch was diabolical and contributed to a sloppy and disjointed match and made precise passing difficult and on a number of occasions our final ball lacked that precision to put someone in a good scoring position. Rafa has had loads of bad press, unjustly so and has had a lot of things to cope with, yes he has had no back up or support, in real terms, from our two Twats, however Wolves did not look like scoring and a little bit of a gamble to try and get a goal would have been a welcome sight for most fans.

This does not mean going gung ho and leaving us exposed, but moving Gerrard out wide right, bringing Aqulina on in the hole, Ngog on up front, dropping Maxi back to right back and bringing Carra and Kuyt or Reira off would have seen us remain solid at the back while changing it up front with a more attacking look.

We can all play armchair manager till our hearts are content, but unless you have been in the hot seat you will not understand the difficulty of making the correct decisions or indeed have the correct information to make those decisions. Yes we could have nicked a goal and won vindicating Rafa’s approach. This time, after the fact he might have got it wrong from where I stand. He tends to get it right more times than not, that is the measure of a good manager.

Most of us would have liked him to change it a bit and go a little harder for the win. At the end of the season the 1 point gained or two points lost will reveal who is right or wrong. After all finishing in fourth spot will be the judge of that.

In Rafa I Trust. YNWA

Id rather have 1 point than none who wouldn;t…and just maybe we could have nicked at the end, but theres no way that performance would have let rafa and the team off..because as supporters of LFC we back our team no matter what!. But as lifelong supporters we have the right to voice our concerns about the goddamn boardroom, the football our team plays and the tactics our manager employs…it seems that criticising the gaffer means we want him sacked..not fucken true, at least for me and a hellava lot of reds i know.

But digger and the like have good points and ive seen good football and tues was a million miles from it!, gerry wrote a couple of post ago to start bringing in some new faces ie’ pacheco, aqua and i say move the team around a bit..especially the midfield as its dreadful its near impossible for them to play any worse, weve lost loads of games and can barely string 2 passes together. i dont want a new manager ..i just want to see some football!

Some good points here since I last commented – it seems my points have rung true for some, and less so for others..

My problem with Rafa has always been his seeming unwillingness to truly attack and beat the so called lesser lights. We have seen this throughout his tenure with LFC. It was only after our 2-0 reversal to Middlesbrough last season when he released the shackles from our team and we finally saw some of the best football under Rafa since he joined. Unfortunately from Match Day 1 this season Vs Spurs, I saw a return to the cautious, risk free approach that has blighted his time with us and you know what guys? more often than not, this method costs us points.

As for excuses – well I’ve heard all sorts this season – my favourite being that Skrtel’s form (or lack thereof) is down to his clash of head injury that he received…in August! Madness..

Yea we have gobshite, lying owners but so do Manchester Utd – in fact some might say that they’re in a worse situation financially than we are. At the start of the season, they lost their talisman Ronaldo (a greater blow than us losing Alonso) a player who has averaged over 30+ goals in each of his last three seasons. Crucially, they were not given the money from that transfer to adequately replace him( does this sound familiar?) They (like us) have also had a massive injury crisis which, at times, has meant they have fielded a complete reserve back 5 but where do they sit today? Second. Now they probably wont win the league (here’s hoping they don’t) but they’ll give it a right go…and you know why? They go out to win EVERY game…home and away. Say what you want about Ferguson but he has simple approach to football (especially when playing the weaker teams in the league) You go out…put them under extreme pressure from the very start..if they crack and you score – half the work is done. Then you get a second…and as quick as you can. Game essentially won. Sure it’s easier said then done…and it doesnt always work of course but if you go out with the intention and correct attcking ATTITUDE you at least give yourself a fighting chance.

Oh and guys, if you disagree with me on this point, that is of course your right but just to let you know..I don’t secretly follow Utd..just thought I’d save you the time writing that

I don’t understand people watching the Wolves game twice, to find some hidden meaning? I don’t need to watch games twice..Christ it was painful enough watching it the first time! I completely and utterly disagree when some in here say that Rafa went out to win that match. He went to AVOID DEFEAT. Plain and simple. Yes it’s easier being an armchair fan – but I would like to think that most on this forum are educated fans (for the most part) and we know when something just isn’t right. Tuesday’s formation and attitude screamed containment and hopefullness. Maybe we’ll nick a goal..and maybe we’ll hang on…. what???

Tomorrow’s game will be interesting – Coyle is a decent manager and he’ll know that he’ll rarely have a better time to face us. They gave Arsenal quite a scare at the Emirates and were a little unlucky to lose. Obviously this is a “must win” match but what I think is equally important is how we win…a statement of intent to get us out of this cycle of shite, dour, lethargic performances. Because I believe if we continue to play in the manner that we are currently engaging in, we wont get 4th spot.

Oh and to save anyone the time – no I don’t follow Man Utd – in fact I despise them

Well said Red – I don’t necessarily want Rafa out…and I’m not looking for Total Football but something needs to change rapidly.

Damn why can’t you edit posts here!!!! I put my “I don’t follow Utd” rant in twice…apologies

I know exactly where you are coming from Dig, it took me a while to get my head around the fact that we couldn’t put Wolves to the sword, even without Torres. Gotta go, more later!

Couldn’t bring myself to read any of the comments before this, save for those of my like-minded “Rafa apologist comrades” of FS, LB, Keith, and can’t remember who else (with apologies if you think you should be counted ).

Anyway, I did not come here to talk about the match, I come her to talk about something else.

You know what’s more painful than watching a frustrating draw? Fans that moan and bitch about getting Rafa out, you say? Not even close.

Now the venom of the media caused by this Annus Horribilis is even creeping into my daily non-football related stuff even when I want to get away from football.

Like when randomly reading some of the latest internet joke sites, I would always unavoidably encounter some mention of Rafa the Spanish Waiter, or how after a 40 year league, he finally leads Liverpool to a league title… in the (insert lower league division name), etc, etc, etc. It’s so venomously cruel I feel like laughing myself, but in misery.

Just what the fuck have we done to deserve all this shit!? I can understand Leeds and Newcastle being ridiculed, but Liverpool!? I can understand if the one doing all the ridiculing are Scum and Bluenoses fans, but what’s even more galling is that besides fans of other “neutral” teams (see how obnoxious the Spurs and Wolves fans were), even those who don’t watch any football are now thrusting the knife in just for the lulz.

AFAIK, Liverpool players do not trashtalk other teams, it’s manager is humble and polite with people, we don’t muscle opponent players and get them injured, and rarely do we cheat to get an unfair advantage, and the fans are not dreaming of delusion of grandeur like Newcastle fans because WE HAVE EIGHTEEN FUCKING LEAGUE PLUS FIVE EUROPEAN CUP TROPHIES TO PROVE IT!

This just pisses me off.

As long as Purslow keeps his head sane and not be swayed by the media, all these jokers will pay for their cruel jokes come May 2011 earliest. Just they wait.

Jack, I do nothing for entertainment but watch LFC. I don’t go the pictures. I don’t watch telly. I don’t even go the pub very often nowadays.

In fact, I only really go the alehouse when one of them is showing LFC on some foriegn channel and I’m not going the game or can’t get it on my own telly. For other games, I watch shitty streams on the PC. So as for my own entertainment, besides my family, LFC is it.

Don’t take this wrong, but you have misunderstood what I said. But I stand by it, mate…
There is far more at stake than anyone’s entertainment.

And this is one of the reasons why I have chosen to stay out of here…
I’m now to the point of banging my head against the wall, when trying to explain life at LFC and why Rafa shouldn’t be forced out especially by our own “Supporters.”

But no matter what I post – my own opinion or that of proper experts who really do understand the game of football and the situation at LFC – as Digger has just proved yet again…
They really don’t understand.

Rome 77… A sack Rafa mong, is far worse than that. As seen in here they will actually stoop as low as to insinuate an ex playing legend has told them personally he thinks Rafa should be sacked.

When in fact, the man, who’s usually not seen much in public, has been very high profile, travelling and shouting to all who will listen that Rafa going from LFC could be the final disaster that sees us go the way of ex-giants such as Leeds and Noittingham Forest.

I watched him just the other night on LFCtv, getting as close as he can on what amounts to Stassi telly, condeming the owners and laying the blame for our situation firmly on the owners. In fact, I wondered how he got away with saying it and it actually got broadcast on the propoganda channel.

And Keith, you may think he has a point by saying we should have brought Babel or Aquilani on, but I’ll bet my bottom lip that if we had done either we would have been a further point behind Spurs.

Is this proveable, of course not. But I tell you what, I’ll trust my own decision making on that rather than that of a bitter lying idiot with an agenda who really doesn’t understand what he insists on whaffling on about.

All I can say is, thank fuck the idiots who think like this don’t actually go the match and the people who do understand what is going on, are in it for the long haul, and will continue to support until we fight our way out of this.

And the funny thing is… what’s the problem anyway? Really? I mean that.

It’s only five seasons ago that this sort of season was pretty much the norm and it’s only the success that Rafa has brought us that makes this seem such a woeful season.

Sadly though, the sack Rafa brigade have memories to match their knowledge… almost non existent.

I really am taking a break now. I only popped back in because I knew I’d have to refute some sort of dig after I’d said my piece. After this one I won’t be arsed. But I’ll put this into very simple terms that hopefully everyone can understand…

To keep them quiet for now, play some entertaining football and satisfy the short term need of victories…
We need to get something like our full 11 on the field in something resembling a full state of fitness, then we’d be whacking the likes of Wolves and a match for any of the top teams.

And besides the lack of investment, that’s literally where all the problems stem from…

The slow start, injuries and sheer bad luck have led to a complete lack of confidence. So, the likes of Mick McCarthy send out their teams like a pack of hyenas after a wounded sheep.

Each set back compounds this, and until we have something like a fully fit team on the field on the pitch, it will be like this because from now until the end of the season every team we play will set about us in the same way.

Get Torres, Gerrard, Yossi, Johnson and Agger back on the pitch along with a fully fit Masch and Aquilani (Yes. When the rest are fit and around him, it will be time to set this lad loose) and we’ll start knocking some results together.

But the longer this goes on, the more the rest will allow their heads to drop. And the other teams will attack us likes it’s their cup final. It’s a vicious cycle. And it’s probably going to go on for some time yet.

So the choice is yours… stop throwing wobblers and do what supporters are supposed to do – Support. Or carry on like a spoiled kid who isn’t getting their demands met…
And god forbid you ever do get them met, as they will see us in mid table mediocrity at best, doing a Leeds/Forest at worse.

Right I’m away now. Might pop back in after the games but other than that feel free to whinge away and call me anything you fancy.

Fair play Keith and Rome. Most relieved to see you agree that Rafa can and does make mistakes Keith, and get yourself a glass of Andrews! Very witty stuff Rome. Clearly there is a line in the sand and you and I are on either sides of it but I am no kneejerker mate. I think we all know that I’m not on Rafas christmas card list and havenot been since my first post in this forum. And 7 wins in 24? That aint kneejerking mate, thats a pattern he seems unable (unwilling at times – wolves) to end.

Kinny – I would try and not let it get you down. I clearly remember slagging Utd fans for the seemingly never-ending inability to win the league…until it all came crashing to an end in 1993

We’ll have our time, I’m sure, but I wouldn’t be putting any dates on it unfortunately. Without major investment in our team this summer I can us slip further behind the likes of City, Arsenal, Utd and Chelsea

So FS you seem to be holding back, come on tell us what you really feel, giz-us a cuddle. Ps where did you get the rumour about Larson. PPs what chance Micheal Owen back.

Wow. What a piece of work. Bye bye then. The forum is better off without those whose idea of discourse is abusive personal insults. Since I respect my fellow bloggers and their opinions even though we may disagree, I’ll leave it at that and not lower myself to your level.

FS is a wise and loyal fan no doubt but I again must disagree – if Rafa goes we will go down the road of ruin like Leeds (who are on the up again btw) and Nottingham Forest? Honestly, that is scare mongering of the highest order and completely lacking in actual evidence. Yes Rafa has raised standards….and probably kept us at that particular standard longer than either of his predecessors (Evans and Houllier) did. Both of them (Evans in 1997 and Houllier in 2002) stood overlooking Paradise only to lose the map and settle for Purgatory once again. Are we at the same point in time with Rafa – I’m not 100% sure..but my gut feeling is that we are.

Now think of it this way: FS and other say our owners are to blame and because they don’t invest in Rafa and the team, we will continue to struggle. Ok so lets run with this – lets say we “only” get £20- 25M approx in the summer again to actually spend on new players (not including new contracts), Rafa will have to make do with pretty much what he has now. Well ok – but if that means having to endure this type of football again and hope to scrape 4th well then you can sign me out.

If our expectations are lowered due to lack of investment, then so be it. But I refuse to accept the notion that NOBODY else is capable of coming in, seeing what we have and making it work better (developing and using our youth squad more effectivlty for starters). Who is this person? There are a few candidates – and I’ll go into that if needs be – but that’s not what I’m driving at here..

I’m arguing the notion that the fate of LFC is somehow linked to Rafa. Why? because he has achieved Champions League positions in the league evey year since he came? Ok yes that is an admirable statistic but not one that is all that surprising given the resources that he had. I mean can anyone honestly say since 2006 (we actually didn’t finish 4th in his first season) that any team outside the Big 4 were in any way better than us? Sure Spurs may have spent more but they bought poorly..very poorly until Redknapp took over. City have only emerged as rivals this season and Villa have never had the strength in depth to really trouble us.

No, I look at our players and squad in general and I don’t see over-achievement. Did we over-achieve last season? Perhaps some might say but I don’t. We should have won the league last year, we came close – we were unlucky. Ok it didn’t happen. But don’t call it over-achievement – I saw it as a natural state of where we stood as a team and squad. The great leap back this season is shocking and hiding behind injuries (all teams have injuries) and bad luck(all teams suffer from this cruel Mistress too) is too simplistic

will Torres, Gerrard, Reina and Mascherano go if Rafa left? Absolutely no evidence that they will. and in fact if they did – well it doesn’t say much about their loyalty to the club does it? Will the same players remain if we don’t get 4th. Again, no evidence but some may argue that there is a stronger case that they might. Are our ownwers going to kick off a fire-sale if we fail to achieve 4th? Unlkely but if they did, surely it was Rafa’s minimum task to have achieved 4th in the first place. Does he not have a minimum reponsibility do reach that goal?

Basically call me old fashioned but no manager or player is bigger than the club. To use the Leeds or Forest model is flawed. For one, our massive global support essentially ensures that we will remain a viable investment option. In fact it is only matter of time (the financial meltdown probably means it may be a while yet) before we do get investment. I could into other reasons but I only will if pressed. I think the majority of people deep down know I’m at least speaking some sense. Managers have come and gone – clubs rise and fall but their fates are not mutually exclusive.

No need to play 2 holding midfielders tomorrow.Play Kuyt and Ngog up front and a 2-0 win is possible.Aurelio, Masher, Aqui and Maxi seems a decent midfield.

I am not a regular contributor of this blog but I must admit, I do enjoy the discussions that runs here. It is very educative in football realities especially when one reads the writings by such people like LB,Aitch,FS etc. #154 Timmy gave us a link, it is about this link I want to talk about. For quite some time now, I have my reservations towards our Captain Fantastic, I have a feeling he is one among hundred and one reasons of our poor form, His altitude is not that of a captain, he should be doing more than what he is currently doing to pull his team mates, but he is not. I am not sure but I think his altitude in on the pitch, off pitch is not right, The way I see him (I might be wrong) He is somehow arrogant to his team mates you can see the efforts he puts in any game it is always to get attention for himself and not the team. If you look at the clip on #154 or any other situation you know, Whenever Gerald scores he will never recognize his team mates, effort toward that goal, and this is not good for any team, Usually the Final pass to a goal is very important that is why any player who scores tends to recognize the effort of a player whose assist caused the goal. Sometimes when he scores his team mates run after him to celebrate but if you look closely he just brushes them aside as if they dont exist, For him only Torres is a player who can play alongside him (look at the clip), he would never acknowledge the efforts of his team mates, look at his reaction when someone else scores, he is always the last one to acknowledge.
Now Considering his roots (Scouser), The time he is been around, he is too big I am afraid even to Rafa let alone other player. When he is in the team most of his team mates lose confidence, they dont play freely. I am sorry to say it but this team could do better not from him but from the Money for him. His recent statement is another example. (95% of most people will not agree with this)

ah 2Red I’m not sure I agree with you here – he may not be our greatest ever captain but he is without doubt one of greatest EVER players

A G Posis,
“spurs have bought poorly very poorly until Redknapp took over”, the same man who has won one trophy in 30 odd years and just about avoided relegation with 2 clubs, “no manager or player is bigger than the club” look at Ferguson buddy, what he says goes ask Beckham he’s got a scar to prove it.
So once more we come back to “OK how do we fix it”
bring king Kenny back till the end of the season ? the same guy who walked away from LFC when we had (in my opinion) a far better squad barring SG and FT than we have now, and then get Gus Hiddink if he will come to a club thats on the bones of its arse, but lets not blame the co-owners for that, no its Rafa’s fault because he borrowed all that dosh from RBS so he could splash out extravagantly on the likes of Kyriagkos, oh and Voronin on a free and Ngog for 1 and a half mil, dont make me laugh.
YNWA.

Digger my post @157 doesn’t really describe you, the way i see you is someone who decided years ago they didnt like Rafa and drew the line in the sand, however this line as become too wide and too deep for you to ever cross. Last season i think you saw how good thing can be and set about building a bridge. Maybe you thought with some investment we could make that final push,however the investment didnt arrive and we got a sh*t load of injuries instead. That bridge was promtly burned and here we are on opposite sides of what was once a line in the sand but is now a canyon.
No matter what we win in the future i dont think i’ll ever see you on this side of the canyon.
Arthur “lets say we “only” get £20- 25M approx in the summer again to actually spend on new players (not including new contracts)” You say “again”but in reality the only money G&H have “given” turned out to be another loan.If Rafa hadnt qualified for CL we’d already be going down the Leeds Way.
So feel free to ” sign out ” as you put it.
YNWA

Auther you are so far off the mark I wonder if you actually read the other posts on the blog. Your post is utter nonsense and does little justice to the actual situation Rafa finds himself in.

The reality of the situation is that Rafa has had zero to spend in the last 3 transfer windows and in fact has made a 6 odd mill profit it that period. He would bite the Twats hand off to get 20 to 25 mill. In fact his net spend since he has been here has been 14.75 mill per year and that’s a fact. With that massive investment he has revamped the entire first team squad of 23 odd players with just 2 players left over from the Jed Eye years. He has also revamped the reserve set up and the youth academy, to the tune of another 30 odd players.

It takes time to develop an effective youth policy, Wenger took six years to start getting decent results and that on the back of a settled and strong first team squad and paying relatively large sums of money for the best youngsters, he out bid us for Ramsey and paid top dollar for Walcott etc.

Our youth policy is strong because of Rafa and is starting to show results. We field on average and with Arsenal the youngest team week in and week out with an average age of under 25. Insua, Kelly, Lucas, El Zhar are babies in relative terms and have developed tremendously under Rafa. Pacheco, Spearing, Ayala, Darby, Ecelston, Nemeth are starting to break through with a few having a real shot of establishing themselves as first team regulars. Waiting in the wind and developing and maturing as we speak, first in the reserve league is testament to that, is Bruno, Ince, Plessis, Buchtman, Malvinga, Dal la Valle and a host of other talented youngsters that if just 3 or 4 break through will be a tremendous achievement.

Agger, Skertal, Masch and Pepe are all 25 or their about. This is all down to one man Rafa and his vision. We played sublime football last year and when we needed investment to kick on it was denied and we took a step backwards.

The all teams have injurious statement is just a pile of crap. We have a thin squad to start off with; we have had up to 11 first team players out at any one time and all at the same time for a period. We have been hammered this season for a lot of reason and most if not all have been out of Rafa’s control. He is slowly; yes some would want it to be faster, building us back into some kind of form and stability after all the kicking we have taken.

If being defensive and cautious is the best approach in his opinion to get us back into fourth spot then I will back him because he has out thought, out maneuvered, out witted most other top class managers with inferior tools at his disposal. The same managers you think will jump at the opportunity to come to Liverpool, dream on, they will not touch us with a barge pole without a shit load of money to spend. If we had that kind of money I would rather give it to Rafa as he has proved a master in the transfer market on fuck all.

He took us to second within a whisker of number 19 playing champagne football. He deserves our full support and is entitled after all the problems we have had this year, to have an off year, regrouping to make another assault next year.

Yes no manager in the world gets it right 100% of the time and they will make mistakes. That’s football. Rafa makes less mistakes than most, hence the record he has amassed. People are very quick to point out these mistakes while forgetting everything he has accomplished and where he has dragged us from.

If he leaves know we will get the Fat Sams or Graeme Sourness of this world as our next manager and we will wallow in mediocrity, losing the appeal to attract the worlds best talent as people leave to play CL football. It is not scaremongering it is a fact. If we stick with Rafa, give him our full support, the swagger will return as will the free flowing football of last year. His youth policy will kick in and his vision of a dynasty will become a reality. We need to have patience and understanding for a difficult year, Yes it is not easy or pretty on the eye at the moment, but it is understandable given our circumstances.

You either believe or you don’t, but if you don’t please don’t fool yourself that getting rid of Rafa will improve the situation because I will guarantee you it will be worse.

No offence lads, none whatsoever. But I am getting bored of reading the same thing over and over again. I am boring myself with the same shit over and over every time a discussion about Rafa comes up either in the blog or in conversation with friends and colleagues. I even found myself on the phone to my Dad in Jamaica explaining why it’s not as simple as Rafa doing a poor job.

Arthur, some of the things FS says may seem like scare mongering and over the top. But I believe he is bloody well right when he says we run the risk of slipping into oblivion if Rafa loses his job while the club is in its current predicament.

Before deciding if Rafa should stay or go I think it is important to understand the position the club is in. I believe a lot of people are not aware of the shit the club is in. Drawing 0-0 at Wolves and Rafa only making one sub is but a grain of sand in the desert compared to the fucking mess the club is actually in. But I digress.

I will try to put it in simple terms – it’s not that I think anyone reading this lacks intelligence its because once one forms a hard opinion it is very difficult – sometimes impossible to change it no matter how well or simply things are explained. I will try anyway.

In the opinion of FS, Keith, Aitch, Timmy, myself and a few others Rafa Benitez is the best manager the club can wish to have in its current predicament. The reason we think this way is this:

The club has no money for transfers. Clubs in this position find it very difficult to attract top managers to the job. The club does not have money to pay any compensation for a manager who is in a job. Clubs in this position have to wait for a manager to be out of work or free from a contract before they can get him. Unless of course we are talking about a manager who is at a small club where say a £1m pay off would suffice.
The most simple way I can put it is like this: LFC is a skint football club. Skint football clubs do not attract top quality established managers.

Forget Hiddink, Mourinho, Lippi, Capello or anyone of that ilk. As a matter of fact you can list the top 20 managers in football and I would be willing to bet my life that not one of them would touch LFC with a bargepole.

The likely scenario if we sacked Rafa would be that we get a manager from not the top shelf but the shelf where the likes of Mcleish, Allardyce, Mark Hughes, Steve Bruce, Roy Hogdson reside. Now imagine a manager in this mold with no money to spend on new players. Also imagine what the attitude of our current squad would be if such a manager replaced Rafa. Players like Reina, Torres, Masch, Gerrard – would they be looking to stay at the club long term playing for such a manager? Would they have the belief that the club is going forward? Or would they be looking towards La Liga in a hurry? In my opinion we’d have a number of players thinking about their futures and at the same time no money to add any quality to the squad. What you get in this scenario is a steady decline.

This decline happened at Newcastle after they sacked Bobby Robson. They fired a very good manager after they finished 5th. The club was also run poorly. They hired Souness and ended up 17th he then left. What happened after that was a succession of managers none of them as good as Robson. I am sure they would have loved to get Hiddink but I’m afraid with no real money to invest and a group of clowns in the boardroom they could only recruit mediocre managers. Players left to go to other clubs that semmingly had more ambition – poorer players replaced those. Newcastle slide down the league year on year until they get relegated.

The notion that top managers will be falling over themselves to manage our club once Rafa slings his hook is a fallacy, a pipe dream, a fantasy. It’s on the same level as saying we’ll be buying David Villa in the summer. There is no queue of investors falling over themselves to take over the club, no top manager itching to take the job and no super star world class player aching to come and put on the red shirt. This “we are Liverpool” is total bollocks. We’re skint. Time we start acting like it.

May I also point out that the club cannot afford to sack Rafa. You may think “oh it’s not right keeping a manager just coz we can’t afford to sack him – something is not right”. Damn right something is not right. Financially we are fucked. Wake up and smell the coffee. Realise the real life situation. The club can’t sack Rafa and it can’t recruit a top manager. It can’t fucking afford it.

Also realise this. No manager since Rafa’s arrival has been more successful on a smaller or similar budget. So when quoting Tomkins/soccernomics to suit your argument when we draw 0-0 with Wolves or lose to Reading remember the bigger picture. Which is this:

2005 – 5th in PL, Carling Cup final, CL win.
2006 – 3rd in PL, FA cup win, CL 2nd round. (our highest ever PL points tally)
2007 – 4th in PL, CL Final.
2008 – 3rd in PL, Semi final CL.
2009 – 2nd in PL, Quarter final CL. (our highest points tally in 21 years)

Reading, Wolves, Spurs, Arsenal, City, Villa have not been more successful than Rafa’s Liverpool. Only the mancs and chavs have and I think we are all intelligent enough to know why that is. The above has been achieved with a net spend of £16m per season. I think that deserves a pat on the back rather than ridicule.

I don’t believe you sack the 3rd most successful manager in English football since 2004 due to one poor season. Especially when the likely-hood of getting a superior replacement is very slim.

A good point there 2 Red, I was watching that clip last night and noticed the very same thing.
It most certainly added to my own doubts of his abilities as captain, while I certainly do not question him as a key player for us.

This captain debate has been thrown around in here a bit and most agreed that Jamie did well while Gerrard was out. But I can’t see Rafa taking armband away from him without causing a major rift between them.

He’s a great player and most of the time leads by example but that doesn’t make him a good leader.

Good posts there from the collective that is the Rafa apologists. As LB has stated above (excellent post LB) maybe some people do not ‘get’ the big picture and not only see the 11 people on the pitch. To destroy all that Rafa has done till now would be madness, but that is only my apologist opinion.

Agreed that it is getting a bit monotonous in here and after several months of the same question, nobody has come up with a better and realistic alternative to Rafa, considering the circumstances. Why is that?

Maybe you want to give it a go Arthur but please don’t do a burgervan and tell us that it should be Larsson as our next manager with Socrates replacing Lucas and Kempes replacing Ngog, or something else as ridiculous.

Good luck, cause you’ll need it.

You’re dead right LB…

… and that’s only the tip of the iceberg we can see…

… so speaking of icebergs…

Shortly before midnight on 14 April 1912, four days into the ship’s maiden voyage, the RMS Titanic struck an iceberg and sank two hours and forty minutes later, in the early hours of 15 April 1912.
The sinking resulted in the deaths of 1,517 of the 2,223 people on board, making it one of the deadliest peacetime maritime disasters in history.

At the helm that fateful night… Captain Edward J. Smith.

Was he to blame? Well, he was the Captain right. He was in charge. He made the decisions. The buck stopped at his door.

But that doesn’t tell the whole story.
He was instructed by the White Star Line (the company’s director, Bruce Ismay was on-board) to sail full-steam to New York, to meat a deadline.
Smith had received Iceberg warnings, so should he have told the owner essentially to fuck off, risking his position and career, and slowed down.
In retrospect, of course he should have, but there are few out there, in any walk of life, who take such a stance when faced with such a decision.

The ship was after all… unsinkable… due to its massive, sealable, compartmentalized bulkheads.

It should be noted that Smith did in fact respond to warnings of icebergs by adjusting to a more southerly course, a decision not well received by the company’s director Bruce Ismay.

However, in an interesting side-note to the tradgedy, but also contributable… the two radio men aboard Titanic were employed by Marconi, to relay passenger messages, so they gave no priority to relaying several iceberg reports to the bridge.

Smith wasn’t on the bridge when the iceberg was spotted… it was in fact his First Officer Murdoch (perhaps proving that it is in fact a bad idea to give anyone named Murdoch any position of power at all?)… who upon the alarm sounding, issued two orders… the first being “all back full” and the second being “hard to stardoard”…

The first order insured that the Titanic slowed down, giving the ship more time to act before reaching the iceberg… the second was an attempt to avoid hitting it.

Modern computer analysis has suggested (in retrospect) that either order would have given the Titanic and its passengers a fighting chance to survive the strike, but that both in tandem seasled its fate.

“All back full”, without a course correction would have seen the Titanic strike the iceberg head-on… such a decision flew in the face of all naval training… you simply don’t hit an iceberg head-on… but modern computer modelling has suggested that, all back full should have slowed Titanic down enough so that when it did hit the iceberg head-on… worst case scenario would have been damage to 2 bulkheads… and Titanic would have stayed afloat (its design insured so with 3 flooded compartments, but not 4)…

The same computer models have suggested that “hard to starboard”, at full steam ahead and without the all back full order, should have been enough to avoid hitting the iceberg all-together.

Once sliced open and flooding, of course, all those passengers died, because the Titanic had the “regulated” number of lifeboats, required at the time, but not enough to evacuate every passnger the ship carried. (Ismay, the owner, got in one though! As women and children drowned… Despite the “women and children first” edict of the day.) (Oh and Smith went down with his ship, along with the ship’s designer, and Murdoch shot himself.)

So what does any of this have to do with Liverpool Football Club?

Well, are these things (and there are other factors I haven’t gone into) the litany of contributing factors… the reasons… as to why the greatest ship ever built at that time, sank on its maiden voyage… or just a litany of empty shallow excuses?

On a lighter note…
The names of the survivors were being posted on a board down at the New York Docks…
…people were milling around asking in regards their friends and relatives…
… suddenly, a voice popped up at the back of the crowd…
“Excuse me mate.” said the voice, prompting everyone in the crowd turned around… to see in their amazement… a Polar Bear standing there…
“But is their any word about the iceberg?”

LB

Excellent post, succinct and to the point, our problem is not whether to sack Rafa, but what the hell to do if we do.

Those of you who think that the Leeds scenario is just scaremongering are I’m afraid mistaken, Leeds support is and was always passionate, what destroyed them was purely financial problems and to ignore the situation we are in is the equivalent of hiding under the covers so the monster in the wardrobe wont get you.

There is no new investment, Rafa will not get 20 or 25 million in the next transfer window and the Mancs are not in the same position as us, (£10 million pound for a youth player)the facts are that we are in a slow decline which is more likely to speed up than slow down if we don’t get investment and that seems unlikely.

The yanks are not responsible for the performances on the pitch, the players and manager are responsible for that, but the club is crumbling and the players know this and no amount of hands round shoulders, inspirational team talks and £1.5 million pound players is going to change that.

Injuries, poor performances and Rafa’s management are all part of the equation, but the underlying problem of a pair of asset stripping, thieving bastards is the central reason behind our demise, and as LB says if Rafa goes the problems WILL get worse not better, and Hiddink or any other manager of substance is not going to step into this particular bed of nails.

Our future, whilst still owned by these people is bleak and until somebody else buys the club and invests, inevitable.

Rafa will be fine if he is sacked or decides to leave, he will not stay out of work long, there is not a club in the world that would not consider him as their manager, but Liverpool will not be able to attract a manager of anything like equivalent quality, these are the facts of the matter and it is about time that people woke up and smelled the coffee.

Oh and Arthur, I’m notpickin on you honest… if I didn’t think you were worth discussing things with in a reasonable manner, I’d ignore you like I do Digger…. but…

“As for excuses – well I’ve heard all sorts this season – my favourite being that Skrtel’s form (or lack thereof) is down to his clash of head injury that he received…in August! Madness..”

Madness is referring to a concussion and a fractured jaw as ” a “clash of heads”. I don’t know if you’ve ever experienced either, oon a football field or elswhere, but either one will fuck you up, let alone both at the same time.

I can only assume you were unaware of the extent of the injury suffered, coz otherwise, characterizing it as a simple “clash of heads” just shows a total lack of respect for the player.

…surely you must know how long it takes for a fractured jaw to heal… yet the lad played on for weeks.
(surely you must know, every time he went up to head the ball, he knew he was in for stabbing pains throughout his head! surely you realize that?)

Another point I have a problem with is this statement…
“I don’t understand people watching the Wolves game twice, to find some hidden meaning? I don’t need to watch games twice..Christ it was painful enough watching it the first time!”

Arthur, education is a process, not an end result. No matter how much any of us know about footy (or anything else in life,) we can always learn more. Surely you realize that?

Surely you realize that it isn’t about finding some hidden meaning, but rather about spotting something you missed the first time. And we all miss stuff. Its about watching it dispassionately, which is simply impossible for any true Red to do the first time around.
I try to be dispassionate when I watch Reds games… watch it and judge it objectively… but it is simply impossible…. I have too much of my life (sad case that i am) invested in it.

We all want to win, we all want great fooball, and we all get equally frustrated, and feel equal pain, when we don’t get it. Some of us just don’t vent our spleens about it, but try to analyze what’s going on, seeing the bigger picture and attempting to understand (as best we can without all the inside knowledge) what is going on at the club.

I have yet to hear a cognitive argument…
…one well thought out and explained…
…one that you can’t drive a tank through, it has so many holes in it…
…that convinces me … at this moment in time… that we’d be better off without Rafa.

Whereas, arguments made to the contrary are simply discounted as “excuses” and their posters labelled as “rafa apologists”.

Surely you agree, that’s not debate?

Now I’ll stop calling you shirley

And here’s the thing…

we simply must stop all this “anti-Rafa” “Rafa-Basher” vs “Rafa apologist” “Gag on Rafa’s Tackle Brigade” nonsense.

Coz that is what it is ultimately! Just fuckin nonsense!

And it desn’t matter which “side” you are on… you’ve been placed on that “side” in part, by media driven bullshit.

Rafa has lost the plot or Rafa is a Tactical Genius?

How about neither!

How about he’s just a man, doing a job to the best of his ability. (did that sound a bit too much like Julia Roberts… “I’m just a girl, standing across from a boy, asking him to love her.” … or is it just me?)

but I digress… An ability which outstrips the abilities of the majority of men doing the same job… worldwide!

“Anti-Rafa’s” love to suggest they are LFC fans, not Rafa fans… as though they have exclusivity on that right.

…believe me fellas, there isn’t a single lad in here, “supporting Rafa” who holds his allegiance to LFC second. For reasons repeatedly expressed, we just believe that the two are symbiotic at present.

It is time the divisiveness and name calling stopped.

If someone holds a different opinion, reason it out… or at least try to… not because you’re right and they are wrong.

Reason it out, becuase THAT is what “the most knowledgeable fans in the world” should be doing… leave the petty catfights to the rest of the league.
If that proves futile, then just ignore them.

I support Rafa not becuase I have some gay affinity for chubby Spanish blokes…
…or any gay affinity for that matter…
…quotations from a dodgy Hugh Grant Rom-Com as potential evidence to the contrary…
…and okay sure… there was that incident in my very late teens, when my mate walked in on me, to find me embarrassingly naked on the bed with a bowl of jello, watching a David Niven movie… but as I explained at the time, it was hot and I was hungry…
…but I support Rafa because judging him on his entire tenure, not one game, or one season…
…on all his successes AND failures…
….judguing him on his “his obvious” strengths and his “obvious” shortcomings…
… and taking into account the circumstances he finds himself in… at ownership level, at administrative level, at management level, at training and playing… and the way he conducts himself within these circumstances (especially in comparison to his contemporaries)
… I conclude he is the best man for the job at present.

And the job is running LFC… not an easy one, despite what some would have you believe.

look, you won’t get any arguments from me if you claim… Football is an easy game.

Too fuckin right it is. You trap the ball, you run with the ball, you pass the ball, you shoot the ball.
Easy peasy…

Managing 20 young millionaires who’ve never actually done a hard days work in their life, who live a rockstar life, driving cars that cost more than you or I make in 2-3 years of graft, living in big mansions (with hermetically sealed trophy rooms the size of your average UK workers home) (and yes, that’s a poke at Stevie G.), dating supermodels and popstars, adhored by milliones who chant their name and are managed by agents who overfeed such already over-inflated egos…

… with tens or even hundreds of millions at stake… in an industry where few, and I do mean few, of your contempporaries have held their current positions for more than 5 years…
… all while under the daily… no make that hourly… microscope of a sharkfeeding frenzy media, who “drive the story” rather than “report” it… and maybe… just maybe top-flight football management isn’t so easy.

Then again, its a simple game, so maybe I’m just making excuses?

I guess I did mis-understand you FS.Lets see them win the Bolton game whilst I’watching it on Setanta to-morrow morning.

I havent read all the post, up to around $172 before i had to comment.

Arthur, are you Sula in disguise?

You said – “Without major investment in our team this summer I can us slip further behind the likes of City, Arsenal, Utd and Chelsea”

But earlier you said something like the owners/budget doesnt effect your team.

It seems you are the one constantly moving goal post to suit your agenda.

You mentioned United injuries. How long did it last? If you were to compare the calibre of our injuries to United players, it would mean they would have “Rooney, Nani, Carrick, Fletcher, Rafael, Vidic, Neville, Ferdinand, Scholes” out all at the same time or most out at the same time.

That didn happen did it.

Arthur again – lets say we “only” get £20- 25M approx in the summer again to actually spend on new players (not including new contracts), Rafa will have to make do with pretty much what he has now. Well ok – but if that means having to endure this type of football again and hope to scrape 4th well then you can sign me out.

FOR FUCKS SAKE! PLease sign out and dont let the door hit you on the way out!. Go support Citeh. We will only get 20mil, including conracts, and wont be able to buy the Villas/Silvas and will probably still battle.

BUT AGAIN< RAFAS FAULT.

Fuck Im glad people like you dont go to the games

I should re-write the above coment just to make it obvious what Arthur actualkly said:

Arthur YOU said this again – lets say we “only” get £20- 25M approx in the summer again to actually spend on new players (not including new contracts), Rafa will have to make do with pretty much what he has now. Well ok – but if that means having to endure this type of football again and hope to scrape 4th well then you can sign me out.

FOR FUCKS SAKE! PLease sign out and dont let the door hit you on the way out!. Go support Citeh. We will only get 20mil, including conracts, and wont be able to buy the Villas/Silvas and will probably still battle.

BUT AGAIN< RAFAS FAULT.

Fuck Im glad people like you dont go to the games

Arthur you also said this – will Torres, Gerrard, Reina and Mascherano go if Rafa left? Absolutely no evidence that they will. and in fact if they did – well it doesn’t say much about their loyalty to the club does it?

Doesnt say much about your loyalty if you will be “signing out” if we struggle to make 4th.

LB, superb post in #179

aw come on Akka, take his argument and reason it out, but don’t tell him to fuck off.

There are and have been some complete knocbheads int his forum from time to time.

I haven’t read anything from Arthur, as yet, to warrant him being included among them.

He at least takes several parapgraphs to list supporting argument.. even if I or you might not agree with the bulk of it, I have a helluva lot more respect for that than a 3-4 sentence Burgerbomb!

Its time to stop the name calling and the abuse and get back to reasoned debate.
LFC deserve it and so does Gerry for providing a haven from the internet madness.
Its the only thing that will stop Kopblog from becoming just another slanging match internet forum, as opposed to the blogs’ dollocks that it is!

We’ve already lost a number of very good, intelligent posters as a result. FS is tiring of it, so is LB, I am myself…
This will be how the media drive LFC to mid-table mediocrity, and believe me that is what they want, by getting us to all goose-step to their tune!

The likes of Burgerman say nothing to garner respect, the Smiths of this world deserve every “twat” that is thrown at them, but let’s not go tarring every difference of opinion, with the same brush.

Maybe what Arthur has to say has merit… maybe not… same goes for anything you or I have to say…
Maybe the truth lies somewhere in the middle and with reasoned debate we can all find our way there.

Coom-by-yar me-lord, coom-by-ya…. everybody now….

Maybe I’ll find an avatar of a bloke in a nappy and change my user name to LFCGhandi

Aitch, its not so much that i disagree with his comments. Ive disagreed with comments from LB, Gaz etc.

But I hate the ultimatium bullshit that come out.

“I wont support the team if we have to battle to finish 4th every time”.

That to me is worse than BM’s grenades. At least thats comical.

BTW, aitch. I never said “Fuck off” in my post.

I probably meant it though :p

Aitch you’re just plain wrong you shouldnt listen to the Media and believe every thing they say.
You’ve got all the facts wrong and you should stop perpetuating the myths.

As i was saying Aitch it was the Olympic not the Titanic that sank that night bit of a “insurance scam” but shh dont tell anybody.

rome… fuck off you bastard

I’m with you akka, it drives me mental too… but we do have to try to recognize when its typed out of frustration (and I’m only defending Arthur, not that he needs me to fight his battles, because in his case, I think is genuinely where he’;s coming from) as opposed to others who seem to do so out of some petulence, or immaturity, or lack of intellect.

The only way I stop supporting LFC is if they managed to somehow bring the self titled “Special One” in to manage the club.
Such an event would cut the very heart and worse yet… the soul… right out of the club.
But I’m never gonna argue that makes me “a better fan” ( even if it does happen to.)

Don’t you mean Britanic rome?

Since the Olympic was sailing in and out of New York on a regular basis such a scam would have been hard to pull off.

But since the Britannic hit a mine and sank while being used as a hospital ship in WW1, you might just have a good conspiracy theory on your hands there!

(of course, you’d have to get around the fact that Britannic was 2 feet wider than either of her sister ships?)
(but why let facts get in the way?)

Headline in the Daily Manc:

Liveprool based White Star Line pulls off biggest scam of the century.

Thieving Scousers at it again!

Aitch No it was the Olympic it had a colliion with a Sub which broke its back the navy said they wouldn’t pay so they did something which is common in maritime insurance fraud and switched names.That way if it does sink as the “Titanic”the insurance will pay out.
The new “Olympic” went on to have a long and distinguished life which is remarkable for a ship which had it’s spine broken.
Or maybe it’s just a conspiracy theory who knows?

Some fantastic stuff in here lads. LB #179 and aitch #182 don’t know how yous come up with them. well done. I cant post as much these days because i can only get on through my iphone and its a bit of a nuisance to go through. However I’m reading constantly and enjoy the posts.
Its without doubt difficult to deal with whats going on with our club at the minute and it resorts to people turning directly on one another in here. Part of that does make for good reading but at the same time i can understand people taking a back seat for a while.
At present I’m living in a parallel universe. I come in here and take comfort in the fact that the majority on some level are behind rafa and for those on the fence still appreciate that he’s dealing with a mountain of shit. Then there’s the small few head cases that want us to buy messi,ronaldo and kaka while finding a manager that plays football from another planet. now those few get a hard time but all in all their thoughts are just dismissed. Well the majority of people I know think I’m losing my marbles for still supporting rafa and the team, so like FS has said it’s gonna be shit supporters like this that will have rafa pushed out the door.
Not only that but should we get another manager and results dont change rafa will still be getting the blame for years to come. Hard to stomach.
Now that wolves game was as bad as the reading game and I’ve watched and played enough football over the years to know that whether or not your world beaters you have to get a few shots on target. The wolves keeper is piss…… we NEVER even tested him. This is my biggest problem at the minute away from home the clock just ticks by and then around the 30min mark we get a half effort. It really is heart breaking but we have to stay strong because these players are capable of playing good football no matter what 11 start.
I’m by know means expecting a good game tomorrow but any sort of win will be welcomed with open arms.

P.S Aitch maybe we could get leonardo dicaprio after all he survived the titanic surly he’d hack one season in the Liverpool hot seat.

Looks like aquaman is on the bench again. I’d really like to see him in action behind kuyt against bolton with either gerrard or lucas partnering masch in the middle of the park. We’re doing well at home and an attacking line-up with maxi and riera wide would see us getting the wining momentum back.

but roarin… Leo died in the end.

remember “I’ll never let go Jack,I’ll never let go” …err, then she lets go and the poor fucker sinks… sparking the torrent of gushing tears from millions of teenage girls and at least one (not-gay, definitely not-gay) Scouse Lad.
(I personally couldn’t believe she let him go. I was like “what?” …but I digress…)

Women eh? Can’t live with ‘em, can’t shoot ‘em.

Or perhaps, as rome is suggesting, Leo was actually on the Olympic and therefore survived, hence his resurfacing years later as a South African mercenary looking for diamonds? …or an American CIA agent on the hunt for Al Quiada … or…

… wait a minute… as man and wife… with Katie… in the 50′s … (it all fits!)

…rome… you’ve cracked it mate… it was all a ruse… an insurance scam… a conspiracy theory…
…oh no, wait… that was Julia amd Mel.

Just popped in to say, fantastic post LB.
Sadly, as has been the case, those who really need to understand it won’t even bother reading or accepting your post, and will continue to hammer their frustration via this otherwise meaningful outlet.

Miss those days where we had a proper, interesting discussion. Thanks for the memories…

Back again to hibernation and supporting my team and manager, far away though I am.

I’ve got to echo hyde’s post above and say what an excellent post LB has put together (#179)

Despite everyone’s annoyance at only managing a draw at Molineux, that post puts things in perspective and should act as a reminder to us all when we are having a good gripe about Rafa and the team.

Human nature will determine that we will still moan and groan about things (and let’s face it, most supporters will do this even if the team are winning) but a reminder of the facts posted in #179 will serve as a very good reminder of the current state of LFC.

You played you’re part perfectly there atich!! I was Hoping for just enough to pull ya on watching the film but that insightful quote tells me you watched that show a few times to many
I shouldn’t be up yet but my daughter insists on watching Saturday morning cartoons so my panic to kick off has begun. I’m really hoping home advantage carries us over the line today however you just don’t know what Liverpool is gonna turn up. If aquailani doesn’t play it’ll be disappointing he’s had a good rest now and mayb start with him and then bring on Lucas if we’re a few goals to the good.
Come on lads,give us a week of happy bolging!!

Couldn’t have hit the hammer right on the nail better, LB.

Anyway, I expect us to totally hammer Bolton today till kingdom come, and if not, I demand Rafa be sacked at once and be replaced with Souness so he can sell everyone and start “rebuilding”. (Sarcasm totally intended)

How can someone say he’ll stop supporting the team if it fails a certain objective? What kind of “fan” is he?

The other day when waiting for the bus to go home from work, I see a young boy, dressed in an Arsenal jersey, carrying a Liverpool backpad and holding a Chavski plastic bag. I thought incredulously, just what kind of values has his folks instilled in him? These are the sort of people who would demand Rafa to be sacked without a moment’s thought because they know absolutely nothing about loyalty.

Look on the bright side, Kinny. At least the lad wasn’t carrying anything to do with Man.U!

Wow Kinny, you’ve actually seen Burgerman!!!!!

Your’e in good form lately Aitch, you’ve actually had me chuckling away to some of your posts – good stuff!

A little humour always helps, and god knows as LFC fans we need to be able to laugh about something.

I have a feeling we will see a very good performance from the team against Bolton today. Fingers crossed.

Good response from the lads on my point – Akka calling me names as usual (bold lad) but I wont be swayed.

Here’s hoping rumours about Aquilani being on the bench today aren’t true…

#179 Brilliant post by london barnes best one i’ve ever read in here explains the position where in excellently

Great stuff lads, LB and Aitch in particular. Now thats debate. Aitch I’m starting to worry bout you, wheres the Maiden wailing Python quoting real Aitch?! Notting Hill and Titanic indeed! Btw, it saddens me to hear your ignoring me. No progress is made when that stance is adopted and bitterness and entrenchment results. Come on mate, lets work through this together?! Anyway, 2-0 today, Stevie and Aquilani methinks. Please just play to win Rafa, thats all I ask.

Great stuff lads,

Here`s hoping for a good win today.Id like to see an attacking line up with either lucas or masch making way and Aquallini coming in.

Listen to this for a laugh!

http://www.jacarandafm.com/kagiso/action/media/downloadFile?media_fileid=37160

Lordy. LB nicely summed up what regulars
have been shouting at the top of their lungs
for months. So for people on the other side
of the fence to appreciate LB’s post doesn’t
really say much about their understanding
of anything.

As someone said earlier I’m so happy some
of the people here don’t and thankfully can’t
go to anfield.

YNWA

Riera’s corner is much better than Gerrard’s

Zorba the greek on course for MOM – I’ve got a feeling he’ll score the first one!

Nice one Kristur

Wrong….. Kuyt!!!

:D:D:D

with Aquilani an assist!

Well done Aqua, good fighting spirit to salvage that ball. Will the gods smile upon us and give us an early second one?

What a goal to miss from Eggnog……
Damn…

I don’t care for Ngog-he is young but hopeless and should be sold.
Why is he on and Pacheco is not,right from the beginning?
I cannot understand Rafa’s thinking at times.The time for defensive thinking is over but the play is still defensive!! Grrr!!

No offense, Jack but..
Thank God Rafa does not think like you…..

INSUA, My MOM….. with Gerrard a close second..

…and Birmingham equalized! (Spurs drop 2 points and we gained 2 against them)

Gerrard released from Muamba shackles… then looked more like himself.

No Skeat – it’s just that I have seen some GREAT Liverpool teams and Ngog just\does not cut the mustard and like Babel should be sold.
NOW Mr.K the Greek is a good one.

Firstly: Nice one London Barnes @ 179. I think you said it all quite nicely, what a lot of us have been trying to say for a few months now. Imagine having one of those managers (McLeish, Fat Sam, etc) running Liverpool Football Club? Sammy Lee might do, but I wouldn’t want any other fucker running LFC other than Rafa right now. And LB (with FS) explains why pretty clearly & eloquently. Thanks for that. I just wish the anti-Rafa people would realise how spoilt we have been over the past 5 1/2 years.
So, to the game.
2-0 is a pretty fair reflection, but we could have actually run away with by 4 goals or more. JackHill, did you notice Ngog’s runs, touches, work rate? We have been spoilt by Torres, and before him Aldridge, Rush, King Kenny, God etc. But the lad’s only 20. He showed great touch at times, especially having the daunting task of leading the mighty LFC’s front line (I can hear the anti-Rafatollas’s saying ‘well, where is Nando’s back-up’ – but that is another argument alltogether). I know he missed a sitter, but how many has Kuyt missed over the years, how many has Berbatov missed for the scum – how many did Keano miss in 4 months for the Reds – 8 sitters, at least? The guy works his socks off, and he has shown enough class/skill to keep me believing in him. Let’s give him a chance.
Watching here in S.Africa – we have a supposed LFC fan as a pundit, Marc Batchelor. The fucker can’t help himslef – Lucas & Ngog (with Rafa) get critisized even if the (former) 2 of them aren’t playing! FFS, did anyone watch Lucas tonight? I mean, really watch him? He gave away maybe 2 balls – one was a simple-ish pass to (was it Carra?) on the right wing 3 mins from time. But did you see the way he got rid of his tackler at least twice in the game, when he received a 50/50 pass from a team mate? A simple dummy/shimmy, that not many players in the EPL seem to be able to you perform. Did anyone notice his runs into the box (despite being a ‘defensive midfielder’), drawing at least 1 defender & thus creating space for Gerrard & Kuyt? No, some of you probably didn’t, but you would have noticed his missed header, right in front of goal, right?
But then, who actually put himself in that position? Who set up the free-kick in the first place?
We all sing the Monster’s praises – I do as well – but shit, Lucas is a ‘defensive midfielder’, he shouldn’t even be in a scoring position! Masch never is, so why should Lucas?
Give the feckin bloke a break lads – take some time out to (actually) watch the game, see what he brings to the team, watch his work rate, watch his runs (thus creating space for others), watch him making himself available for a pass, when a defender is in crap…FFS, just actually appreciate the bloke for once.
On a positive, Stevie looked a bit like his old self, Hercules was a brick wall – magnificent defending – Insua was the Dog’s Bollocks – despite his age, 7000 straight mins on the clock, critical posters from Kop Blog etc etc…and we won 2-0 with 3 points in the bag!!
Ps. anyone else think Anfield sounded a bit subdued? Probably Sly Sports turning the sound down…
In Rafa I Trust. YNWA.

Yes I did see Ngog’s runs and mostly terrible first touches.He has potential, but he is in the wrong team,he does not put his body on the line and I groan when I see him get chance after chance of playing. Yes,he has scored some goals and so he should (along with some others,like Kuyt-but at least he works really hard).
I like Rafa but he does make mistakes with some players e.g. Ngog IMHO, should have come off when he hit the woodwork and substituted by Pacheco, never mind Eggnog’s confidence.
AT LEAST THEY WON – hooray.

Thank fuck someone finally understands me…
LB, I owe you a pint.

I don’t know where to start here, but let’s try to pu into some sort of perspective…
firstly, like everyone else I am pissed off with how this season is unraveliing.

But having said that, we are still in there fighting, and if I was asked who would finish in the top four out of Villa, City, Spurs or Liverpool – I would still back Liverpool.

And that, like it or not, is still punching above our weight. Because as much as truth hurts, and as much as you think I might be scaremongering, the fact is I’m not…
Please stop and look at what happened at Leeds – I’ve posted it in here twice, with a time line – and we aren’t that much different.

So when I say things like – There is much more at stake than personal entertainment – it is not just a remark aimed at people in here. It’s much more important than that… It’s Fact.

Yes. A team that includes one of the best goalkeepers in the world, one of the best holding midfielders, one of the best attacking midfielders and one of the best attackers should be doing better than this. But let’s not forget who assembled this team, how long it has taken him, what it took to assemble it and what it is truly capable of.

Yes. I agree. This season is shite. We have played like shite. Every performance and result seems to make me angrier than the last, but the fact remains… if we throw this all out – players, team, manager – we aren’t going to suddenly push on. We are welcoming in disaster like we have never suffered before.

I’ve spent the last two seasons in here saying more or less the same thing. And except for a few, no one seems to have got it. I’m not being a smart arsed, I told you so. Far from it. I’m actually trying to say… is it because I’m so inarticulate?

Anyway, bring on the toffees and the arse

My apologies in advance if this in any way sidetracks the blog, but …

Digger, there is no bitterness or entrenchment on my part. In fact just the opposite.

Its all well and good claiming to want to “work through this together” but simply claiming the high ground doesn’t actually mean you occupy it.

Your responses #149 & 150, to my post in #148 were not to enter into disourse on the subject, but to simply discount everything I said, out of hand, as the ramblings of a madman. It has been the same story for several months now.

One of the best discussions I’ve had in my 5 or so years coming to Kopblog, was a discussion on the merits of, and worth to the team (or not) of Dirk Kuyt.
It was promted by many of Gerry’s blogs, with the primary protagonists being you, LB and I, though many others threw their 2 cents worth in… and it ran on-and-ff for an entire season and into the summer transfer window, spilling over into the beginning of the following season.

Maybe I’m remembering it too fondly, but I don’t recall any of us ever simply discounting something the other had to say, as though we were blithering idiots… and it was the main reason I became a Blog’s Dollocks Addict and fucked off all other forums, where people just slanged each other.

Points were made, counter arguments made, and themselves countered.
Each of us challenging the other to explain our stance and reasoning.
That is discourse… not suggesting someone is merely resorting to “hollow excuses” because you disagree and can’t be arsed writing more than one sentence.

I’m not having a nark Digger, if I was I’d have made this point weeks ago… but you asked, so there it is.

unlike Burgerman, I know from experience that you have more in you than a 3 sentence contribution on any given topic.

I more often than not, think before I type… and probably far too often for most people’s liking, ramble the fuck on, paragraph after excrutiating paragraph, like some sort of school teacher….
(and no, I’m not flattering myself, I know full well, many of you just see my gravatar and skip to the next soundbyte and I wouldn’t blame any of you for it!)

…but sometimes in here, its like trying to have a discussion with a right wing republican… you can’t if you’re being immediately discounted out of hand as a hippie, tree-huggin, commie liberal.

… and look… if that’s what you wanna do, then fine, I’m not crying about it…
…but don’t be trying to take the high ground as though you are actually open to discussion, and I simply “took me ball and went home”.

I challenge people when I think they’ve said something inaccurate.
I usually do so in (I’m sure for most of you, excrutiating) detail.
And I’m not someone who can’t be moved… you think I’m wrong, bring it on…
…but you best type more than 1 paragraph and be prepared to back it up… you’re gonna have to mke your case in the same way I attempt to…

Any time you wanna do that, fine… but until then….
well like I said, there it is.

…we now return you to our regularly scheduled programming…

Hang in there guys. 2-0. That’s ok by me.
Great posts by the usual suspects.
We are not anywhere near right yet but we won thank you very much. We must be doing somethings right.
Once again it’s another major do …. or be absolutely crucified a comin’ down the line.
Hold tight.

Well thats much better!!!!!credit where credits due and masch had a great game today…passed to near perfection, insua was fantastic and the lads played some football and in the secound half bar the first 10 mins bolten could barely live with us, rafa put out a nicely balanced team..tactics were spot on..subbed perfecty although i would have loved to see pacheco instead of babel. the defence was great and the team passed thru the midfield ..the creativity was 10 times better than last wk..so much more movement of the ball and stevie started lookin like the player we all know…it coulda and shoulda been 4 or five…great win lads and rafa was spot on

It was better, but then again it had to be after that cockpiss against wolves. yeah, masch was much better with his passing, insua looked strong and attacking, and stevie looked a lot more like himself.

i enjoyed the win but was really disappointed when aquilani was taken off. i know he wasn’t having the best game, a few misplaced passes, but everyone knows he needs game time more than anything. he needs to feel up-to-speed, confident, comfortable, and in rhythm with his team mates. most importantly though, he needs to feel wanted and trusted, and the fact that he wasn’t given a kick against wolves, and then was taken off early (by rafa’s standards) in a game we were in control of, must affect his confidence. it must!

Sorry to have a whine and a dig at rafa after a good win and a decent performance, but this really annoys me about the boss. i know he has a reputation as one of the best man-managers in the game with his very explicit instructions on movement and positioning, but for me he could use more opportunities to give players confidence-boosting game time.

as i’ve said in here before, i hated to see crouch leave. yes, i realise rafa wanted to keep him, and crouch wanted to go. but why did he want to go? oh yeah, because rafa never brought him on. even when we were chasing games, or had them sown up. rafa didn’t seem to realise or notice that his player was getting disillusioned. i noticed it, why didn’t he? same story with aquilani. he needs to feel a bit of trust and respect. he needs more time on the pitch even though lucas looked good when he came on, even though we got the second goal after that, even though he wasn’t playing especially well (he still set up the first goal). we really need to get the best out of aquilani as soon as possible so it would’ve been worth the risk to leave him on today, or stick him on against wolves. only my opinion.

in rafa i trust – but his substitution decisions do my head in!
YNWA

Sambo mate, sorry to have a dig but is this the same rafa who bought crouch?
The same rafa who persisted with him even though he didn’t score for a long time and the media tearing him apart?
The same rafa who got crouch up to international level?

But sometimes when you have a certain Torres you don’t tend to start a crouch.
Just like we would expect ngog to be on the bench if torres was fit.

Mind you we were not controlling the game when aqua came off.
The way we have been the last 6 weeks bolton could have stolen a goal.
Plus I was happy aqua was taken off, he looked knackered, and I counted aroind 6 long balls he tried to play that went to the other team.
Not having a dog at the lad, but we needed to hold the ball.

As rafalution said, lucas came on for aqua and was superb. Won the ball, attacked and dragged players out of position, clever dummies.
I gaurantee lucas will be class in a year or two.

Arthur what names was I calling you?

If anything I should have called you immature.

Was that performance up to your standards?
Will you still be ‘signing out’ (aka throwing the toys) if we don’t play like barca, have players like kaka (whilst paying him a snickers bar a week).

If you read some of what the other lads like LB, FS, aitch et al and not just ignore them and continue on ur drivel, you might learn a thing or two

akka.
i know what rafa did for crouch and i fully agree he made him the player he is. but that’s not the part that bothers me! as i said, its the part where he left him out in the cold even when there were chances to give him a run. obviously torres was always getting the nod, but – as i said – there were heaps of chances to give him a run that were passed up.

it’s old news and not really worth bringing up, but i’m getting the same feeling with aqua as i did with crouch and keane (keane’s more complicated – i know he ignored all rafa’s instructions). fully agree lucas looked good when he came on, but for me aqua is taking on the form of a shadey, gloomy, bench-dweller, peering out from the back of the dugout with pale skin and sad eyes.

i know what you mean mate, and maybe i’m wrong, but i reckon the pitch is the best place for him at the moment, despite his patchy passing.

hey sambo i hear ya on the aqua sub even tho lucas played well when e came on….aqualani needs momentum..game time and you could tell he had lost some spark since the spurs game where he was looking sharper.
akka….rafa bought crouch nutured him when he wasn;t scoring and yes torres was on fire ….but he also left him on the bench time and time again when torres was injured and kyut was up front, even with 15 mins to go he put on someone else and shove crouchy on with 5 to go…those were the games we were drawing and needed somethin xtra.

i just think he’s always going to look a bit sketchy, over-eager and detached from the team until he plays a few full games on the trot. he could be huge for us in the run-in, but only if he’s got the confidence to express himself. will he be trusted to play in the derby, or against the arse? at city? he’ll probably be back on the bench feeling frustrated and restless. i’m desperate for him to do well and i don’t think rafa’s going about it quite right.

for liverpool to get back playing the kind of football which destroyed everyone last year, we need a player who’s at the centre of everything, the hub of the team that receives the ball constantly, moving it around the pitch and setting up the main goal scorers (as well as lashing in the odd long range effort). alonso was that kind of player and aquilani was bought to fill that role, but we’re not going to see it unless he’s settled.

on the face of it, it was an excellent substitution with lucas coming in and securing the midfield very well. i’m just trying to think of the bigger picture. we desperately need a player to suddenly step up as a creative force and much as i rate lucas’ consistency, i reckon aqua is more likely to be that player. no disrespect intended to lucas here because he’s developing really well. he’s just not quite incisive enough to give the front men what alonso gave them. we all agree liverpool aren’t incisive enough at the moment, right? i’m just praying aquaman’s the answer. if he’s not, i’ll take the heat with the boss!

Sambo, I like you want Aqua to succeed.

Dont forget the lad has played a average of 15 games per season in italy for the past 4-5 years, and now we want him to play week in and out against english opposition which are more physical.

As you said it was a excellent sub. The thing is, it was a must win game, as is every game. Had we conceeded a goal we would have had people in here after Rafa for not seeing we were looking shacky and getting another player on.

I think Aqua will be world class for us, no doubt about it, but he was giving away possesion too cheaply.

Its like the arguments mid week against Wolves, why didnt Rafa sub Stevie. Would you apply the same argument Sambo if Stevie was subbed when we won. Would you have said “Rafa should have given Stevie more time because we need him fully fit and confident and he needs game time to do that”?

Rafa already gets enough shite for his lineups and subs. We saw it worked effectively with Lucas really playing well in the last 20min, yet RAfa is again getting the blame. The man cant win.

akka
i wouldn’t apply the same logic to gerrard simply because he knows the team, knows the league and knows he’s invaluable. he doesn’t need to be ‘given’ a run of games. when he’s available, he’s straight back in the team. aqua needs to find his premier league legs as soon as possible and i’d like to see him start and finish as many games as possible from here on in, even if it takes him a bit of time to find his rhythm.

you’re right, rafa can’t please all the people all the time, so no, he can’t win. personally, i have no problem with him leaving gerrard on, and he seemed to benefit from a full run. he was way better today. on the other hand, bringing him off when he seemed to be struggling would’ve been fine by me too. aqua wasn’t given a kick against wolves and to take him off after 60 minutes the following game reads more like a vote of no confidence than anything else. he’s unlikely to be relishing the upcoming big games. He’ll probably barely feature.

rafa is a tactical genius and he has conjured up some amazing performances in the hardest places, but i’ve rarely agreed with his choice and timing of substitutions, so maybe its just me.

I find your logic hard to understand Sambo, Aquaman was playing quite badly spraying Hollywood balls straight to the opposition, at the time we were one nil up and a badly misplaced pass could have cost us dearly, Lucas came on and played well and yet you are having a go at Rafa’s man management skills over Aqua being substituted.

It seems to me that Rafa cant win in these situations and your objections are based on personal preference and not what was happening on the pitch.
As for Aquaman being left in the cold like crouch or god help us Keane, its not going to happen, but please try to bear in mind how much football he has played in the past few years and the type of football we play in England, and then ask yourself whether we should be easing him in to the side and allowing him time to get used to the conditions or just playing him non stop till he gets injured again.

Rafa got it right yesterday and we were the better side, and I wish sometimes he could get credit when its due

Well lads atleast we’re in for a bit of peace and calm for now. Delighted with the result. Happyish with the performance. Disappointed with the subs.
First and formost I’m not expecting us to batter teams at the minute so I’m glad to see us getting chances and play a bit more attacking football. Though I suppose after wolves watching cricket wolud be edge of your seat stuff(sorry to are Aussie bloggers)
I really think aqua should have stayed on the pitch. He was doing rightly and like sambo said needs to get as many prem games under his belt asap. Against wolves on 60mins I was screming for him to come on. An yesterday it was frustrating to see Lucas get the nod on 60mins when aqua clearly playing well had atleast 10more mins in him. Lucas came on an done a job and it’s not me having a go at him but what our team has been missing has been someone naturally pushing forward. The Way he fought for the ball and got it back across goal for our first was something we’ve been lacking all season. Anyway not gonna dwell on it because most importantly we won and that’s all that matters for now.
We’ve got three games that will shape our season coming up if were to finish fourth I belive were gonna need 7 outta 9 points. Hopefully the gunners do the mancs today but them filth fucks seem to be hitting some sort of form,shuould be a good game though.

It was probably Aquilani’s least affective contribution to date, despite his part in the first goal.

He was not really at the races yesterday, and I thought Rafa was right to substitute him.

It’s not uncommon for a new signing to have “one of those games” and I’m sure he will be more impressive if he gets on against Everton next week. Then again, Rafa could wait until the trip to Arsenal on the 10th to use him again.

massive games comming up but i spose they all are now, i reckon its gonna go down to the wire between us and city. last ten mins yeasterday confindence seemed to be back we just need to score early and start playing. keep battling reds.

How anyone can argue that the substitution was incorrect is beyond me.

Roarin mate, aqua wasn’t playing well mate. He turned the ball over quite alot and was slowly running out of steam (two factors which could have cost us points).

When Lucas came on he actually pushed forward. I hate this pre-conceived notion that Lucas is defensive. The lad skinned a few defenders, got into the box, played intelligent passes and got back and defended.

I agree Aqua benefits from game time, but it cant be at the expense of the team. Same argument as Stevie last week, everyone wanted him pulled off, yet we all know he benefits from a run of game to get into form. Yet the result was different (a draw) so everyone blames rafa for keeping him on when he should have been off. This time a player who was playing poorly (especially in the second half) should have been kept on to get game time.

FFS, lets stop moving goal posts. Sometimes some of you soundl ike Sly Sport. I remember the typical groans and ridicule that was on show when Lucas came on from the cmomentators.

Hercules tremendous again with his aerial dominance and goal-line clearance, what a bargain he is turning out to be. If he keeps playing like that and Johnson comes back into the team, could it be possible that Carragher could find himself on the bench or would it be Skrtel? Man of the match for me was Insua, best game I’ve seen him play, cut them to shreds down the left, shame the goal wasn’t given to him coz he certainly deserved it.

Aqua sub was spot on, Lucas was great and Aquilani was tiring. The team comes first…… which then leaves you baffled at why Ryan Babel would get used coz that cunt never puts the team ahead of himself. Twitter twat, time to repay the faithful, Ryan.

Bolton’s game fascinated me honestly . Despite some trouble first half the second half we started playing football the old style , the players really enjoyed the style of play they offered and had a great time . We even could’ve scored more goals , and the subs were fantastic too . I would really appreciate Rafa giving more chances for Ryan Babel . I think the lad deserves it , after all , he is loyal to the club despite not having much chances to play . The club is looking great now , after Benayoun and Torres return to action we really will have a width team with lots of players we could rely on and should expect something really special from Aqua and Maxi I believe they will play a big role in the race for forth place this season .

Akka mate like I said aqua was doing rightly. I pesonally wanted to see him finish the game because we were comfortable and getting him minutes is important.
I’m not having a go at Lucas I spend to much time defending him to my mates(thankless task that it is) however before wolves I really wanted aqua to start as his last performane definitly merited it. Yet he was dropped. Now even if you didn’t think aqua did very well yesterday he still had that mini momment of inspiration and created a goal. Lucas plays some games were he does everything right but doesn’t provide that cutting edge we need
anyways mate I’m not trying to draw you into a long drawn out debate on this, it’s just how I’m feeling about it. Considering the season we’re having I think we’re all due some gripes about certain situations this is just one of mine.
Don’t worry I’m not gonna start calling for heads of players but I’m just under no illusions about yesterdays win. I think we all know the next hic up is potential only round the corner and we’ll have plenty of chances to blow our lids then;-)

Lads, like Rafa said… Aquilani has been bought for 5 years, not 5 games. And like I said recently, he’s going to be a great player for us but like I also said, and got skitted for, he’s a luxury we can’t really aggord at the moment.

Right now, we are still fighting our way out of this slump and we could have easily ended up drawing that game, maybe even losing it, yesterday.

Bolton had 4 or 5 chances yesterday, and if it hadn’t been for Pepe and Kyriagos, they would have scored at least 2, possibly 3. And that’s why at the moment we need players like the big Greek on the pitch.

It’s Everton up next and make no bones about it, they will set about us ferociously. It will be no place for silky skills that aren’t quite up to speed or on the same wavelength as the players around.

That’s not to say, Aquilani will be useless in dog fights. (Why is everything seen in such black and white terms on here?) In fact, when Aquilani is playing at his best and his team mates are used to his style, he will be the sort of player that makes the difference and wins the dog fights – but that’s not just yet.

The last time I commented on him, when I got the piss taken out of me and called a Rafa appologist for it, I explained exactly why I think he’s of no use in these type of games right now. I stand by what I said in that last comment. And I also stand by what I said about the lad adding a whole new dimension to our play.

Think back to Alonso at his best, when he dictated our play and set the pace. Well, Aquilani will do this but he will do it much quicker and from a more advanced position. He will also score more goals than Alonso ever did.

Think of how Alonso played, pushing the move forward, dropping back a few paces, making space for himself and then pushing on again when he recieved the ball. I hate to say this, but sort of like a Quarterback in American football.

Well, there’ll be none of that with Aquilani… he will give and go, and always push forward and at a high pace too.

Just look at his misplaced passes at the moment, study them like, and if you know your football, you’ll realise a lot of them look wayward because the players around him haven’t read the situation correctly.

This, for the most part, can be straightened out on the training pitch but when it’s all up to speed in the actual games it’s going to cause havoc for opposing teams… yes, even the cloggers, well especially the cloggers, in dog fights.

It will also take us a step closer to Rafa’s vision of what he wants LFC to be, a crushing machine like his Valencia and his ideal Milan team.

I could go on and on about what I think this team/squad is capable of and all the possibilities it has… once it’s all fit and clicking the options are endless.

But to keep it simple…

Reina

Johnson, Carra, Agger, Insua,

Masch or Lucas

Aquilani,

Kuyt, Riera

Gerrard,

Torres.

That – all fit and firing – will terrify most teams into submission before we even take the pitch.

It will be good enough to beat any of the top teams who actually try to play football against it and it will just rip the bus parkers apart.

I think the one great shame in all of that is Babel. If he’d have been capable of taking on board what Rafa had in mind for him, and capable of actually implementing it on our left flank – we would be unplayable when on song.

But to just throw all this out of the window because of one shitty season… well, it would be absolute foolishness of the worst and yes – it would be the start of exactly what happened at Leeds and would/could see us go the same way.

Hicks saying no to an offer of 80 million for Torres and 40 for Gerrard without Rafa there to stop him?

I don’t think so. But I do know that’s exactly what happened at Leeds… O’Leary fell out with the board, eventually got forced out, Ferdinand went to Man U for 30 million, the whole thing collapsed like a deck of cards.

And just look at what’s happening at Pompey… Fucking Harry Redknapp demanding they pay Spurs money that’s owed and then picking through their squad like some droopy faced fucking Vulture.

Well, I don’t think Rafa would ever set out to actually harm LFC out of spite. I do believe he loves the club, the city and the people far more than that. But that wouldn’t stop at least Pepe and Nando wanting to go with him.

So FFS the next time we have a shite game, moan by all means but think twice before calling for Rafa’s head. I know Real Madrid and Juventus would be more than happy to see you get your way. On the other hand, most match going Kopites, well let’s just say, they won’t be too pleased.

akka, you say lucas isn’t defensive, but he very rarely creates or scores goals so what is he? he’s consistent, safe, reliable, involved, astute, energetic… the list goes on, but he seldom creates any goals. for me he’s the perfect squad player, but my ideal first XI doesn’t include him. i really hope we keep hold of him and he continues to develop the way he has. he’s proving a lot of doubters wrong. but not me. we need someone more creative in that position. sorry.

Sambo, you seem to forget that Lucas is a kid playing in a struggling team that has had this job thrust upon him.

It’ll be discarded as excuses by his detractors, but do you think we will seem more from Lucas when he’s in a full team, fully fit and firing?

I do. And I think expecting more from him right now, is a bit hard on him and missing the point…
Along with Pepe, he’s actually been our most consistent performer and definetely one of our best players this season – which I know isn’t saying much considering how some of them have performed.

But like I said, stick him in a fully fit and firing 11 and you’ll see a different player.

just checked the official stats. lucas has 1 assist this season. aquilani’s got 2. not meaning to sound like a certain meat sandwich or anything, but that does tell a story. for all his good work, high pass-percentage , and general improvement, he’s still only created 1 goal for the team all season.

yeah, i know. resorting to stats is pretty shit, and i don’t know why i’m bustin’ lucas’s balls. i just want to see aqua in there. i’ve been waiting all fucking season!

Sambo, you’ll probably be seeing loads of them together, especially next season as I think Masch will go… As Rafa will probably be given a bit of his transfer fee and that will be the great splurge Hicks has promised.

Nice one on the big ups of my post lads. FS I’ll have a San Miguel thanks

I didn’t see any of the match at all, not even highlights or the goals. I’ll be looking out for them.

I’m watching City vs Pompey. 2-0. I think City pose the biggest threat to our CL qualification. They will be level on points with us with 2 games in hand. They have a very good and strong squad and have a good manager. They wont be going away. Whereas I think Villa and Spurs will bottle it around March.

By the way Aitch has been on superb form. Ever thought of getting into writing?

Oh and another thing. Kygriakos looks to be a good player now init?

LB, at the beginning of the season, I said Man City could win it. Didn’t and don’t think they will, but that sort of dough buys trophies. But what it doesn’t buy is easy games.

I watched that too, and Pompey could have easily got something out of it just as Burnley could against Chelsea yesterday…
Like Rafa says, it’s all in the small details.

Sadly, they’ve all gone against us this season, but people don’t seem to realise, we’ve taken 14 points from the last 18. We keep that form up and we could still end up with the UEFA Cup and the Mancs could easily be the ones making way for their neighbours.

I’m just off to watch them and the Arse meself now…. cue the Tramp, Rooney, and Wenger’s kids wank fest.

And while I’m on about media bias…
Once again the media have decided to ignore what happened at Anfield yesterday.

Have a look at the Daily Manc(Mail) that Tramp arse licker in chief is going on and on about the great Man U supporters and their wonderful anti Glazier protest of wearing yellow and green scarves. He also convienently ignores how they bombarded City players with coins and bottles of beer – how did they get beer back to their seats?

But not only that, he says how wonderfully effective this protest is and how Kopites should follow it… yeah. Like we are going to wear our original colours of blue and white.

The fucking gobshite.

But besides that, there’s not one reporter who has mentioned how we locked Hicks out of his own stadium last year. And how yesterday, he had to be smuggled into the ground in a sort of SAS covert operation, and how he was unable to leave yesterday because of the protest that took place after the game when he was spotted in the stands…
Apparently, he had to be snuck out of the stadium 3 hours after kick off through a snide exit over on the Kemly side. And I have this from a really good sound source…
He was fucking rotten drunk… He was that shaken by the noise of the protests outside, that he was visibly white as a sheet and very worried, and he hit the bottle big time.

Nice one SOS. Keep up the pressure lads and lasses.

And yeah., The big Greek lad is doing well. He’s another of Rafa’s possibilities… a big bastard, not quick but reads the game so well he gets away with it, and a monster in the air…

Remind anyone of someone we just lost?

Oh and yeah, Rafa’s a fucking mug that didn’t realise that and just caused murder with the owners to get the 1.5 million for him because he felt like having a strop.

Sorry, should say 3 hours after the final whistle. Just rushing things so I can watch the Mancs get twatted… Up The Arse!

Arsenal r a fuckin disgrace!! Playing like complete bottlers and shittin themselves with every chance. Makin it so easy for the mancs. It’s partly r fault but they’ll be stroking it around us with ease and that silly Russian fuck playin outta his skin. WANKERS!!

Had to turn it off meself, but if you look at it, it’s nothing great from the Mancs, it’s just the same old story from Arsenal…
a team works really hard against them and they are stumped. Stoke, Villa, etc, anyone can do it against them. The difference is, the Mancs have Rooney.

What a shame there’s something wrong with his head and he was brought up by a twisted and bitter blue family. He’s wearing the wrong red.

Someone remind angry gay to
wipe the brown shit from off
his nose and pass fungus face
some toilet roll.

Fuck you Arsenal, in some way you’re no different from teams managed by that cunt Steve Bruce – going all out against us (not to mention all the luck as well), but dropping dead when playing the Scum.

Sambo, if you’re gonna use stats as a stick to beat Lucas with, rather than one game, why not use an entire season?

FYI, Lucas has made the most successful passes in the entire Premiership: 1,200. This is achieved at an 85% success rate (higher than anyone else in the top five). He has also made the 3rd-highest number of successful tackles.

Of course, stats are only useful for you detractors when it suits you, doesn’t it?

We are unbeaten in 6 consecutive league games now, as well as finally knowing how to win at home as well. Though in such dark times, when morale is low, the number 1 priority is to sort out the defense first and foremost, allowing the players to have confidence in the team’s defense before they can move further forward.

The media wankers and Rafa-Out cunts may choose to ignore this, but Liverpool have now kept 3 consecutive league clean-sheets (CS), and only conceding 1 in the last 6 (against Stoke).

Since the inception of the Premier League in 1993 (which Sly Sports and their media cronies always use as the beginning of their little footballing universe), the average points won by the 4th place team is 67.6875.

Since the 4th placed team is granted Champions League qualification, the average points is 67.75 points.

In other words, we would need to achieve at least 68 points.

We now have 41 points, with 14 games remaining: 7 home, 7 away. Assuming we win all our home matches, while remaining at least undefeated in all away games (i.e. 1 pt each), we will still have at least 68 points exactly. Of course, I do not for a moment believe that we’ll end up drawing all our away games. So CL qualification is not impossible at all.

The next 3 games coming up will be an indicator of where we’ll go, starting with the Blueshite next weekend at home. Win that and I can accept draws against the hopeless Arse and Man City.

Moreover, if you look at our main competitors for the CL spot: City, Spurs and Villa (the Wannabes), you’ll notice they have a tougher fixture than ours, and they will lose points along the way, especially when playing each other (we only need to play City left, having beaten Villa and Spurs already), not to mention most of our games between March and April will be home games.

Liverpool:
Blueshite, Arse, City, Blackburn, Wigan, Portsmouth, Scum, Sunderland, Birmingham, Fulham, West Ham, Burnley, Chavs, Hull

City:
Portsmouth, Hull, Bolton, Liverpool, Chavs, Spurs, Sunderland, Fulham, Wigan, Burnley, Birmingam, Scum, Arse, Villa, West Ham

Spurs:
Villa, Wolves, Wigan, Blueshite, City, Blackburn, Stoke, Portsmouth, Sunderland, Arse, Chavs, Scum, Bolton, Burnley

Villa:
Spurs, Scum, Burnley, Sunderland, Stoke, Wigan, Wolves, Chavs, Bolton, Blueshite, Portsmouth, Birmingham, City, Blackburn

I hope the Champions League spot will be tied up before we face the Chavs in the penultimate game, otherwise, there might be a dilemma if the Chavs were head-in-head with the Scum: Beat the Chavs to secure CL qualification, but end up helping the Scum win no. 19, or vice versa.

Ideally, after how they’re pathetically beaten by the Scum, I’d hope the Arse’s season will collapse from here onwards, so these three Wannabes will be competing for the CL spot with the Arse, while we will be aiming for 3rd and even better.

Good post Kinny mate, and obviously you went to some lengths to make it so the last thing I want to do is write it off.

But the thing is, we must stick to the old cliche at the moment and take one game at a time.

Having said that, I agree with what you’re saying… we have every chance of finishing higher than fourth and should at least secure that spot.

City obviously are a bit of a worry. But I don’t think we should be looking over our shoulder. We should be looking ahead.

Hopefully Everton is the perfect game for us now… a proper fight against proper rivals. Funny enough I always feel less nervous for these games than the likes of Bolton and Wolves… they are always bannana skins that we can’t really win…
Win. So what we should have.
Draw or lose… the knees jerk and the knives are out.

So as much as I’m saying one game at a time, I’m actually looking forward to the next 3 games. Make no bones about it, it’s the next 14 league games and the Europa’s that will define our season, but get 3 good results in the next games and that should set us up nicely for the run in.

Hey kinny no one is denying lucas has come on leaps and bounds this season but if your throwing stats around i would bet most of those passes were 10 yards to the left right or backwards…..he is a tenatious tackler and has a great work rate, but in general he isn;t the creative player liverpool needs in the middle, still as said before aqua is here for a long time and having played so little in …4-5 yrs am sure rafa is blooding him correctly, i dont buy his passes were the reason rafa pulled him..if it was masch would have been pulled last week, aqua was very loose in the beginning but came right…..i agree tho he had lost all the good momemtum from the spurs game, hence the need for game time. FS made a good point above i just hope if were struggling against everton we bring aqua on after 60 mins as well because unlike somepeople believe the lad can fucken tackle so i dont think bringin him on will suddenly lose us the game.

Didn’t get to see the game but sounds like a good result, well done lads. Ironically the 2-0 win wasn’t replayed here like the 0-0 draw.
.
I see the usual rumours regarding Rafa, staying, going, gone have resurfaced. Anyone got anything on that. Doesn’t look like anyone coming in, and what was Hicks doing at the game, not really a category A game was it. Whats he doing in Liverpool.
.
Anyway good result against Bolton Rugby league Club.

Heard Robbie Keane is sold by Spurs to Sunderland.

Now it seems that Rafa had got it right by getting rid of Keane and getting as much of his investment back as possible. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, eh? (Wolves game)

Why isn’t anyone applauding Rafa for his quick and decisive action in getting rid of Keane? After all, we had an immediate vast improvement in our scoring abilities that season after he left when the entire press was saying we definitely can’t score from then onwards. And the fact (now it’s a fact) that Robbie Keane is declining, behind Crouch and Defoe of Spurs, not to mention Torres and Gerrard of Liverpool.

Why isn’t anyone attacking Harry for wasting money on a declining star, and worse still, dropping his captain?

To all those who brand us Rafa apologist, isn’t this unfair press treatment? Or is this our imagination and them vs us again?

Anyway, I wouldn’t be surprised if the press and you guys say it’s Rafa’s fault that he had essentially drained Keane’s confidence during his time in Liverpool, leading to his decline.

What stiff-necked people….

Gaz he was probably there just making sure he’s going to get his Million quid in expenses at the end of the season. But I believe he was there to speak some business with Purslow an all.

As for the Rafa rumours, well the British media are just going to keep stoking that one, and Rafa is being a bit naughty by not squashing it. Can you blame him for messing with H&G, the media and our own Rafa out brigade though?

I can’t.

Anyway, just came back into say this…
I have just watched the Bolton game again. I done that with the Wolves game an all, and I can recomend it.

You sort of get a Rafa’s eye view… you watch it much more critically with all the emotion taken out and it’s surprising what you pick up on.

But besides that, and I could go on about the actual performance, but there’s something else that I think’s more important…
How many times do people dive in here after a bad result, moaning and whingeing, only to be told to stop, calm down a little and look at the big picture.

Well watching the game over again is sort of like that but even more informative. I got loads from watching it again, but these three things really struck me…
1: Our youth policy.

We’ve had 3 kids grow up in the team this season… Lucas, Insua and NGog – all 3 had really good performances, especially Insua. But when you watch it first time, full of emotion, you are far more likely to see their mistakes than their contributions.

2: Our injuries and the loss of our 3 star players this season.

Of course, Alonso went. And let’s face it, we’ve practically played this season without Gerrard and Torres. This would hurt any team in the world.
But then add all the other injuries to it and any team would be in real trouble.

I know this is no revelation. We all know this. But I think it needs mentioning again. And not only this, but the fact that 2 of the kids, NGog and Lucas have had to fill them boots. And that can only bode well for their futures.

3: Our defence.
That’s now looking rock solid again, even though it isn’t our first choice. In fact, them 4, in them positions, means it wouldn’t even be our second choice. But look at how well it’s doing and the difference a settled defence has on a team. I forget the figures right now, but we were forced into using something like 17 different formations up until a few games ago. And even though I’m hoping to see Johnson and Agger back as soon as possible, it’s probably worth sticking with this set up for a few games.

It’s giving us a really solid platform and that will only lead to a growth in confidence – which I see definite signs of now.

And fuck it…
4: Aquilani.

This lad is pure class. Yes. He made a few ricks yesterday, but watch the game again and it’s his positive contribution that will hit you before his few wayward passes.

Just look at how many times he gets in the box.

Mark my words, this lad is going to be immense.

Oh and sitting on the bench is only going to do Pacheco good an all. Yes, it would be nice to see the kid get some actual game time. I’m sure he will before the end of the season when we can gamble a bit more… like getting brought on when a game and the 3 points are safely in the bag. But even being around the first time and being part of the match set up has got to be good for him and hopefully next season will see him kick on.

In fact, despite the screams of the hysterical amongst us who will no doubt call a positive post like this excuses and appolgies… things look quite good and the only thing worrying me is them bastard yanks.

Off to bed, but Axchoice…
http://www.clickliverpool.com/sport/liverpool-fc/127831-liverpool-fc-owner-tom-hicks-trapped-inside-anfield-by-fans-protest.html

What chance the mainstream English/British press ever printing anything like that you’ve pointed out when they completely ignore – or cover up – that the club’s owner has been locked out of his own stadium and then kept prisoner inside it, when he managed to sneak in, for hours by the clubs supporters?

@red kelly:

“he is a tenatious tackler and has a great work rate, but in general he isn;t the creative player liverpool needs in the middle”

I’m just gonna one of Rafa’s “Resident Apologist-in-Chief” Paul Tomkins’ “mindless stats” from one of his recent blog articles (courtesy of yours truly paying 3.5 quid per month):

“This (1,200 passes) doesn’t mean that they were all extravagant or incisive passes; however, a quick look at The Guardian’s ‘Chalkboards’, which illustrate the direction and distance of his passes, will show that there is a huge variety to how he plays the ball. And as we’ve seen in recent weeks, he’s less the “defensive” player as which he’s portrayed, and is clearly becoming ever more box-to-box (even if his finishing is yet to match his bright ideas).

Lucas isn’t one for frequent killer passes, although the ball to Benayoun in extra-time against Reading was one of the best of the season; the sort he supposedly can’t play.

Indeed, even Xabi Alonso rarely had direct assists from open play; my analysis of last season showed that he was involved in a lot of goals, but much earlier in moves, often with simple passes. Lucas’ goal ‘involvement’ figures have increased this season, and unlike Alonso, he’s also been frequently getting into the opposition box.

However, he’s a very different player to Alonso, and it’s a shame that anything good he does is obscured by the fact that he’s NOT Alonso.

Now, I’m not using these figures to say that Lucas is therefore the best central midfielder around, and that the sublime Cesc Fabregas, for example, is a lesser player. Lucas has played a lot of minutes this season, and that will help boost his figures.

But as some deluded soul told me earlier in the season, ‘Lucas can’t even play a simple five-yard pass, and doesn’t even win 50% of his 50-50s’. Now, those statistics suggest otherwise. He’s made 1,200 successful passes and won seven out of every ten tackles.

Indeed, in this context, they are FACTS, not statistics. They PROVE otherwise.”

In some ways, Lucas is like Kuyt, always working under the shadows to ensure the engine keeps running even when the car is stuttering in other parts, and yet people expect them to thrust the car into hyperspace, and then slate them when they aren’t what they expected due to their unrealistic expectations.

@kinny, look alot of what you say is true and im not takin anything away from lucas…you said yourself the lad makes 7 /10 tackles, ive seen him play some beautiful forward balls…..but that sounds a little like masch therefore aqua looks like he has more creative spark. i would have either masch or lucas and auqa…sounds more balanced for attacking and defending to me just my opin mate,i think you hit the nail on the head when you said hes like kyut…..if a choice between torres and kuyt???? ….lucas and a player like fabregas????? aqua could be our fabregas and thats what we need, we had gerrard then alonso , so now we need someone else with an attacking mindset someone who can read the game both on attack and defence…oh and scores a few crackers as well!!!!

kinny. that stat for 1 assist WAS for the whole season, not just one game.

anyway, i’m not going to have a stat-off with you. stats don’t mean anything. we’re all watching the games intently so we don’t need a load of stats at the end to tell us who played well.

i think you’re forgetting that most of us in here spend half our footballing conversations sticking up for lucas. you don’t need to tell us how consistent he is and how many passes he does. i’m telling people that all the time. you don’t need to jump to his defense.

in recent weeks, to varying degrees, the team has looked embarrassingly short of attacking verve, clever touches, and incisive passes. it hurts me to say it but at times we’ve looked as bad as i can remember. if lucas is operating at the hub of those woeful performances then he’s got to take some responsibility because it’s precisely his job to make that shit happen. he’s a really good player… but he’s not making that shit happen.

i hope FS is right and he’s just being blooded as masch’s replacement and next year he’s operate along side aquilani as the defensive player he clearly is. that would suit me fine. but next year feels like a long hard road away and we need to finish this season playing better and creating more. aquaman has already created more goals than lucas this season, 2 beautiful little assists, even though he wasn’t playing particularly well. imagine what he’s going to do when he’s settled and confident. we need to make that happen quickly.

Great win against Bolton and towards the end of the second half you could see the swagger coming back to the lads. With a bit more luck, confidence and assurance it could have been more. As good as Skertal and Hercules where at the back they are very similar and lack pace at times and got away with one or two bad moments where a better quality side could have punished us.

I see the debate regarding Lucas is back on the agenda. I cannot understand this myth concerning his so called defense minded attitude and play. Do any of you who criticize him actually watch what he does? He gets into and makes runs into the box far more than Alonso ever did. He pulls defenses apart with his runs and creates space for others. His passing, especially in the attacking, sense is way underrated and it is often his quick distribution that gets our attacks moving.

What people fail to realize is that when a team is struggling with injuries and fluidity, settle combination and team understanding the movement is disjointed and the options and runs from the front players are limited hence restricting the chances of playing an incisive pass. With Kuyt up front because of his lack of pass it makes it worse. Once we went two up and relaxed we started to spray the ball around and creat space for others to run into.

That’s why I prefer Ngog up front, because of his pace to run into space and a big reason why we miss Torres. Ngog is another who is vastly under appreciated the kids eye for running into space is excellent, his finishing and distribution will improve with experience but he has great instincts to make space for himself or to get into the right position. Like Lucas he should be appreciated for what he does and where he is in his career.

The criticism of subbing Aquilani is just plane madness, first and foremost we have to win the game, the rest is all secondary, to suggest otherwise is ludicrous. Keeping a struggling Gerrard on against Wolves is a gamble, but a gamble that has paid off for us in the past when he has popped up with a spectacular goal while doing fuck all eles for the rest of the game. Win some loose some.

As for the Arse, they will, if the next two games against us and the Chavs are lost, will be right back into the fight for 4th spot and I cannot see them digging deep like us to fight their way out of it if things go badly wrong. Interesting times indeed.

Rafalution Bachalor is a dickhead of the highest order and a stupid one at that. If he had a brain cell he would really be dangerous, he is as thick as two short planks. I switch off the commentary at half time so I don’t have to listen to his inane dribble.

Good result for the team on saturday.Indeed we will have to scrap our way out of this slump and i am starting to see glimpses of the football we can produce.When the second went in the performance got better immediately.The players were more relaxed on the ball and in that period played some good stuff.

To the doubters who think our run in last year was just a flash in the pan,one off your wrong.It IS what the team are capable of so ease of and get behind Rafa and what he wants to achieve.When the game was sealed by insua you could see the difference in the movement of the players.Suddenly they were playing with confidence.Eeryone wanted the ball.This is what it will be like if we can continue to work hard.

As FS says our defense is rock solid at the moment and this is a great foundation to build on.Kerry Argos has been a revlation whaen called upon and at the moment i can`t see rafa breaking up that pair for the next couple of games.

I was happy to see Lucas start on the bench on saturday only because i thought the lad deserved a wee rest.He has put in some shift this season.Game after game he`s been a warrior for the red shirt and i can really see him becoming a top midfielder for us.If masch does go in the summer i`d have no quams if he was his direct replacement.I`m looking forward to next season already.He played very well when he came on saturday.With all the stick the lad has got,you can only admire his courage.
Don`t you just KNOW he won`t score for us this season but he`ll score the winner in the world cup final for Brazil!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Some people were really pissed off with the Thierry Henry handball incident.

http://newsfromireland.com/2010/01/irishman-urinated-on-french-bread-in-protest-at-henry-handball-court-told/

Fatty,

He`s from Rosscommom and all didn`t you say before you had reletives there

I just had a week or so away from football there. Well, except for actually watching the game I did.

It was lovely, sort of like the old days before all the hype – watch the match, have a short conversation about it and LFC in general with a few mates and that was it…
No internet. No Sly or Talk Shite. No papers. No media in general and none of it’s gobshite pundits.

It was lovely, but like a dope I’ve gone back. I’d say nothing’s changed, but it’s actually got worse…
For instance I’m busy round the house, so I put the Mancs on yesterday, big mistake. Not watching the game. I hate them and turned it off once they went 3 up, but there’s no taking it away from them… they were practically perfect yesterday.

Well, the Tramp had ballsed the line up, but once Fabregas had left Scholes on his arse and in his wake a few times, the players sorted themselves out – Carrick switched with Scholes at Scholes request – and that was it… the perfect way to beat up and bully Arsenal out of it – let them have possesion in the first two thirds of the field, don’t chase them there wasting energy, press them really hard in the final third and hit them fast on the break.

As I said yesterday, it’s not rocket science, any team can do it, but other teams don’t have Rooney, who you have to admit is a great player in great form. And they also now have Nanni playing. It’s took forever, but he’s finally showing his quality now on a consistent basis.

So, what’s going to happen now? My guess… Arsenal will scrap like fuck to stay in the top four, maybe even take points off Chelsea. Other teams are going to fold for Man U like they did last season, instead of getting into them like they did at the beginning of this one. The media wank fest I’ve seen since yesterday will ensure this.

The other thing I’ve heard none stop is the Terry carryings on…
Do you think they’ve took or will take any sort of moral stand against him?

Yeah. And pigs will fly out of my arse. This is a married man with children, who has been caught god knows how many times, shagging on the sly. He even shagged one 17 year old girl “Fan” in the back of his Bentley – and got caught. He’s been caught god only knows how many times, and he’s also been caught on many occasions staggering out of nightclubs at all hours of a morning, getting into fights in clubs, pissing in people’s drinks in nightclubs, and even stripping off naked in a bar in Heathrow airport, spewing up all over the bar, and running around it naked screaming abuse at American people trying desperately to get home the day after the Al Queeda attacks on their homeland.

I think you’d be hard pressed to find a lower form of human being. But what do the media do… vote him “Dad Of They Year,” a couple of seasons ago.

On Talk Shite this morning, the concensus is it’s his private life and shouldn’t affect his football.

FFS He’s the captain of England, he’s been caught shagging one of his team mates girlfriends and mother of the lad’s child, behind his mates back. But all they can come up with… oh nudge, nudge, wink, wink, he’s a bit of a lad isn’t he that ol’ JT.

But guess what… Yep. They still found time to slate Rafa, and do their best to push him off to Juve.

I’d say unbelievable but I know quite well, the whole thing is a fucking disgrace and moral cesspit.

I really hate football at times.

Well i don`t think you hate football at times FS just what surrounds it.

The media have such double standards.Foe the likes of `Arry and JT all the shite they`re caught doing is swept under the carpet.
Wayne Bridge will probably be axed from the english world cup squad to avoid awkwardness in the camp.

Important win on Saturday. We still lack any real attacking cohesion , though I did think our second half showing was better. Nice to see Aquilani get another assist but after that, his influence did dwindle. I’m reserving judgement on the lad and we may have to wait until the start of next season before we can give a definitive answer. Everton and Arsenal (with pacier fowards) may trouble us – but it’s hard to fault our defence of late.

Seems like it’s a two horse race now for the title though City do have 2 games in hand but I still think it’s a season too soon for them

Watched a bit of the Manc game and have to admit Rooney was magnificent. How that arsehole could end up at Everton instead of us is a travesty of justice from a Liverpudlian point of view. Imagine him next to Torres with Gerrard behind them.

There are going to be lots of twists and turns in the Prem this season, though I think and hope Chelsea win it. If we can go on a good run and continue the recent improvement I still think we can finish 3rd. The tragedy is I still do not think ManU are as good as the pundits try to make them out to be. If Rooney picks up a knock and miss a few games on the trot I can see them dropping points and we could still catch them.

In this see saw season team like Villa, Everton, City, Spurs, Fulham and even the Stokes of this world at home will take points of a few of the big boys.

I must admit Gerrard look a yard quicker and 100% sharper and it was great to see him back to some type of form. We really have missed his inspirational play, it picks the whole team up. Also I cannot wait for us to have everyone fit, full of confidence and us firing on all cylinders as I think we could produce something quite special.

On another note I was surprised to see us sell Buchtman to Fulham I thought he was getting rave reviews in the academy, but apparently he did not impress at Melwood.

I think bridge will get left out of the world cup squad.The main reason being he’s shite.But i do agree with FS terry has got away with murder in the past if gerrard had done half the stuff terry has got up to he would have been hung drawn and quartered by the press.

I know were skint but i like the look of Johnson at boro & Bentley at spurs both could have been good players for us Bentley is a brilliant crosser and dead ball man and johnson reminds me of chris waddle an old fashioned winger who works the fullback.

Hope everyone took my betting advice for a 2-0 win!.If the Reds finish fourth and the Mancs don’t win the title, it won’t have been such a bad season, if the Mancs do win 19 and the Reds finish outside the top 4, it will be as disastrous as ’99.

That link won’t work for me Timmy. I summise some mad culchie pissed all over the bread… Wouldn’t surprise me as yeah some of mine do hail from that way and I still have a few over there and some family in Rathmines. It’s about time I got back over there. The missus is dying to go again, but I honestly never go anywhere nowadays where there isn’t some ulterior LFC motive behind it.

I’m a sad aul bastard really. But what can you do.

As for Terry, sadly, you’re bang on the money… if there’s anysort of friction, it will be Bridge getting dropped.

I really don’t give a shite what they get up to. Terry is nothing but a Chav who got lucky. Like an awful lot of footballers, he’s pretty thick, comes from a shit background and suddenly found himself rich and famous.

The list of them from the same way of life, who went off the rails is endless. And in all honesty, I’d have probably been no different if I’d had been blessed with enough talent. It’s a common thing.

Like you said, the sickening thing is the hypocritical media circus that revolves around it all. It really is quite sickening.

Look at Rooney… you’re bang on an all, Keith. It’s such a shame the lad is fucked up in the head. Frued would have a field day with that loon, but the lad can play.

And as for the footy… that’s the worrying thing about Rooney’s form and yesterday’s result – the media are going into full Manc meltdown over here. And you can bet your bottom lip that there’ll be towels getting lashed in left right and centre before they kick a ball from now until the end of the season.

So, yeah… I really do hate football at times.

Just had this emailed to me….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITp5UieUWBc

The fight goes on.

The lads over are doing a fantastic job.

The media will only paint the SOS as a bunch of scouse scallywags whilr the decent Manc support try desperately and honourably to save their club.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1247743/Harry-Kewells-agent-slams-British-medics-wasted-career-Leeds-Liverpool-man.html?ITO=1490

FS,
a moral stand they wont make regarding Terry, as LB has said and i totally agree our media especially the tabloids, they are all racist, but the sickening thing is apparently Terry and his missus and Bridge and his missus “where” neighbours and good mates and they did a lot of shopping together and nights out and that shitbag was cheating on his wife and banging his so called mates partner and mother of his child, but it could be all heresay but dont think so, (i think the editor of News of the World took himself in hand when he got wind of that one).
Good link on youtube mate.
Rafamuffin, i think the only bentley we can afford is a 1960s model, and that’ll be a stretch.
YNWA.

Redman, I think the Terry melarkey is well out of order, but it’s the papers/media that make me really sick.

Look at that Harry Kewell link, and then think back to what he said when he left Liverpool…
“I’d played football from an early age. It had taken a toll on my body, and I deserved a rest.”

That’s not it exactly, but it’s more or less right. Or in other words – “I was knackered. I didn’t try to get better. I sat on my arse and collected my wages… Fuck em.”

And reading that, it’s clear to see the Aussie Doctor is just blowing his own trumpet. Can’t blame him for that, and I’d actually believe that Liverpool contacted him…
we contact every decent bloody doctor in the world and even nutters with horse after birth, as there’s nothing the club won’t do in order to keep the lads up and running.

But why say that, when it can be used as another stick to beat the club. Let’s face it, there’s nothing the English/British media won’t use to attack Liverpool. Is that mad paranoia?

Well…
http://www.anfieldroad.com/images/stories/hillsborough/sun_the_truth.jpg

As always, that’s all I need to say.

And LB may well be right about the papers being racist, but the fact is they have to do it slyly nowadays. If they printed that sort of shite about any minority or ethnic group they’d be…. well, let’s face it, they wouldn’t dare print it but even to this day Scousers are fair game.

In fact, it’s now pretty much traditional to attack us. And when you won’t stand for it anymore and have a go back, there’s always the same two answers…
1: Whingeing victim minded Scousers.
2: Where’s your sense of humour.

Well, I don’t know about you mate, but as for meself…
it sort of does make me feel like having a moan, and it does effect me sense of humour when everytime I turn on the telly or the radio, and pick up the paper there is some kunt gobbing off against us and the club.

In fact, stick an h on this, and Timmy you got it wrong mate. The praise began last week…
ttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1247217/DES-KELLY-Manchester-United-fans-win-flying-colours.html

And I’m sure if I have a root around I’ll find something about Scouse thugs locking the legal owner of the club inside his own stadium. But you know what….
I can’t be arsed. In fact, I think it’s time for another wee break from all this. Like I said, I learned to laugh at it all a long time ago, but from time to time you can’t help but let it get to you.

Has anyone seen the film ‘The Road’? I went to the cinema to see it last night. Fucking hell you think our season has been depressing….

Nice to see Robbie Keane come out say he was a boyhood Cetic fan…. that’s funny I thought he was a boyhood Liverpool fan.

With man city able to sweep failed £35 million signings under the carpet(robinho to santos).What real chance do we have against that sort of spending power.I hope our youth policy start to bare fruit soon.Also someone mentioned something about lucas being one of our young player coming thru to the 1st team.Didn’t he cost us £7 million.Lucas and kuyt are useful players to have in your squad but i dont think anyone would regard them as 1st choice players.Lucas in time could turn into a brilliant defensive holding midfielder .Kuyt on the other hand is good to have around in your squad to chuck in when you want to keep things tight in certain games.I don’t think you can consider him a ist team player at a club like liverpool.In the dutch national team i can understand the need to balance out a attack minded team with a grafter like dirk.But we do not have that luxury i like wide forwards to be able to beat the fullback(barnes mcmanaman riera) and create chances for the strikers as a minimum requirement.or like ray houghton/beckham tuck in like a 3rd central midfielder and help to control the game.The barnes/houghton wide player combo is the perfect mix for me.dirk is the perfect squad player can fill in different roles works bloody hard but his type of player will not get us to where we want to be.
YNWA

Did I miss something? At Old Trafford something came out(a coin) and hit Bellamy on the head when he was going to take a corner. I have not seen any action taken by the Football League.

Jack mate, your not going to either. I honestly hate going on about it. I must look like some paranoid conspiracy theory nutcase. But the fact is, the English media, especially tabloid papers, radio and television will never really take Man U to task.

They may have a little nibble at them here and there, but Man U are a sacred institution beyond real criticism.

Look at the BBC and how the crumbled with Sir Tramp, and that’s our flagship media outlet not some tacky tabloid.

On the other hand, there’s no lengths they will not go to slate LFC, and I mean that literally…
Now they’ve went all the way to Australia to say we wrecked Harry Kewell’s career with our woeful medical care instead of sending him home.

Funny, here’s a link from LFC’s official site in 2006…

Erm… Kewell went to Aus to get treatment whilst he was with us.

http://www.lfconline.com/news/tmnw/kewell_flies_out_for_treatment_299331/index.shtml

Kewell flies out for treatment
By Adam Bryant
Wednesday, 20th September 2006

Harry Kewell has flown out to Australia for treatment on his injured foot.
The Liverpool winger developed septic arthritis in his left foot after the World Cup finals and has been unable to play since.

And I know for a fact that we let him stay there for treatment when he supposedly contracted septismia in a toe injury he’d got when playing for Australia in a World Cup qualifier… and he was caught doing nothing about any injury/illness but surfing and laying round on the beach while we paid him 30 odd grand a week.

And I know I drive some people mental going on about loyalty and treachery, but this is why…

There isn’t a day goes by when there isn’t a fresh attack on the club and especially the manager. Doesn’t matter if there’s nothing to beat us with, they make it up anyway and get some shite like Ronnie Whelan or this Australian doctor to back it up. And it doesn’t matter what else is going on in football…
HArry Redknapp being arrested for tax evasion and bung taking.
The Captain of England, and media “Dad of the year,” John Terry carrying on with his wife’s best friend and one of his team mates live in girlfriends.
And I could go on and on, but what’s the point. I’ll stick the radio or telly on tomorrow, open a newspaper and it will be there…
Stubborn arrogant Spaniard Benitez wastes billions on hundreds of foriegn crocks. He must go now before he destroys LFC.

And sadly the worse thing about it… some of our own “Supporters,” just keep on believing them and actually aid them in this disgraceful witch hunt on a decent and very successful man who has actually brought this club back to the closest it’s ever been in the last 20 years to it’s old glories.

A really sad state of affairs, but hopefully we’ll stuff the Toffees – our proper traditional enemy, not the bloody Mancs who like to proffess they are – and the phone ins and internet won’t go into meltdown again. But so many of our fans today know so little about the club and it’s history, that even if we proper batter Everton it’ll just get passed over as a game we should always win against a little club.

Whose in the film LB? And what’s it about?

From the way you described it, I think it sounds like a must see.

I heard someone talking about it briefly at work the other day, but didn’t get much detail.

Fucking hell, I’ve just read up on the movie “The Road” on Wikipedia.

Sounds like a right holiday for Father and Son, a dreadlock holiday that is!

I see it has had some excellent write ups and is being tipped to do very well because it is so different to many movies we see.

On to LFC, and it seems that the Everton match could be coming along at just the right time. O.K, Torres won’t be back for this game but it is still a match we are likely to start with a high tempo due to the adrenelin rush up to kick off, and these are the situations where we usually do well.

Chelsea now look as if they are our best bet of stopping Man.U winning no.19 and of course, a fourth title in a row.

How sad is it that we have to rely on the Chavs to stop the Mancs from toppling our history?

What i find amazing is the press hasn’t found a way to turn the Terry thing around to LFC, I have been waiting for the LFC target Terry found with former players wife. Or Rednapp wanted by LFC for Managerial position found tapped up bungs.
.
As they managed to write former LFC player to sign with Celtic, not current and former Spurs player to sign with Celtic.
.
Ps what a piss poor transfer window for us, what was the deal with selling the young lad for 100,000, what was the use of that, was it for discipline, or cash for the weekend for Hicks.

Gaz, silly old bastard that I am, I’ve been driving meself mad listening to the radio all morning.
Here’s a snippet of what I’ve heard so far…

How fantastic the Man U fans are and how fantastic their protest against the American owners is…
Apparently it’s a stroke of genius, but dignified is the word they used over and over again about the yellow and green scarves that appeared during the City game – obviously there was no mention of Bellamy getting hit on the head with a coin and the barrage of dignified beer bottles, ciggie lighters and coins that got thrown at City players all night.

Kewell… How LFC wrecked his career – and yes how they done the same for poor Robbie Keane.

And there was more, but what’s the point…
it gets light, it goes dark, LFC and Rafa get slagged in the media. It’s as reliable as the turning of the tides and you could set your clock by it.

As for the sale of young players…
As Keith pointed out a few posts back, a highly rated young lad, Buchtman, has also just been moved on.

He’s a young defender and seeing Fulham just sold their most highly rated young defender, Smalling, to Man U, in a round about way, Rafa’s wheeling and dealing is now strengthing the enemy.

And seeing Rafa is getting no money from any of these sales to strenghten us, all I can summise is he’s been told to lighten the wage bill – just as he was told reducing the debt was the main aim for this season.

He’ll probably let us know in his next press conference. But come summer lets see what materialises from Hicks promise of big investment in the team/squad.

But in honesty, if I was Rafa I wouldn’t even wait round. I’d be off to Juve, Bayern or Real – who for some unfathomable reason, are all queing up to get the useless stubborn arrogant waster of billions as their next manager.

hey lads
first chance to comment since I went to the spurs game. Had an amazing time, we were in the kop which was unreal, the atmosphere was electric the whole game. Had a few pints in the Albert beforehand and was chatting to a good few reds, mainly locals but a few dutchies too. General feeling was everyone is disappointed with the season but didnt hear ‘rafa out’ from anyone which was brilliant. everyone i spoke to just wanted to support the team through this very difficult period.
I ended up getting someones season pass as my ticket, FS is this an organised thing that people do if they can’t make it to games or are there people who have season tickets who have them to sell on to travel agents? It was my first time on a package trip so haven’t seen this before.
Great to hear Kelly and El zhar made it through the reserve game last night, kelly in particular will be a good addition to have back in the match day squad.
Its a shame we had to let that young defender go, but the majority of those young guys wil be moved on for small profits without ever seeing first team action as is the same in all clubs. We are seeing a very high percentage of youth players coming through to the first team at the moment which is great and by the sounds of things we’ll be seeing a couple more over the next 18 months. This is a great achievement by rafa and the back room team, and a policy that will see the club benefit from greatly in the coming seasons. I’m sure some of the ones we move on may turn out to have great careers but its a chance you take, as there is a chance that the ones we keep may turn out to not make the grade.

Gerry must have fallen down a hole..

FS, Rafa may well be loyal to LFC because of the supporters, many of whom have shown great loyalty to him. We all know the reasons for that.

Rafa knows that Juventus would not let him have the final say on who they buy and sell, so let’s not forget that Rafa is not stupid enough not to know about the pluses of his current job.

I hear you say that with our current “custodians” that Rafa’s job must have more negatives than pluses, and I would agree with that. However, I think Rafa knows that with owners and a Chief Exec who know very little about football, he is always more than likely to be given the green light for buying whoever he likes should funds become available somehow.

I think he knows it wouldn’t be like that in Italy or Spain. He might get more money to spend elsewhere (to begin with) but he would not get total control on who to buy and sell.

Wasn’t that why he walked out on Valencia? Just a thought!

Great comment that Galway lad. I’m glad you could tell people in here how it actually is at the match…
Let’s say it became clear that Rafa had lost the plot or the dressing room, or for some reason he was no longer up to the job…
You wouldn’t see RAFA OUT flags on the Kop – as we did by the Mancs against The Tramp, and you wouldn’t hear them sort of chants we always hear at other grounds against their managers.

(How come the Mancs have never made up a song or a chant for their greatest manager of all time?)

That’s what still to this day, in all this hype and greed, what keeps us different from the rest. And like with Houlier, there would just be a general atmosphere that let the boardroom know it was time to part ways. And as with Houlier, Rafa would be thanked sincerly for all he has done for the club, but politely shown the door.

That is dignified. That is how this club has always conducted it’s business and hopefully always will.

Glad you got to the Spurs game, good one to get to that. As for the ticket, I suppose it’s just someone making a fast buck. There’s always going to be that type. But everyone I know with season tickets passes theirs onto family or friends if they can’t go.

That’s how me and Knight ended up getting in on a Dad and Lad ticket for the Manc game. (Where is me old mate Knight?)

The lad and dad who’s tickets they was were going away. They’d booked something months before and was gutted they couldn’t go. Obviously, spare Manc tickets are like Hen’s teeth, and go for a good few quid. But the lad still only charged us face value.

Anyway, obviously the lads on the gate know this goes on and turn a blind eye. What are they going to do… pull the 50 odd year old fat white fella and the 60 odd year old fine figure of an Asian man, and ask who’s the lad and who’s the dad?

Fucking funny if they did, but the lads on the gate don’t give a fuck. They know tickets get passed round friends and family… I often go in on me mate’s bird’s ticket when she can’t go.

And never have I been asked for anything more than face value for any season ticket I’ve used. Of course, I always throw them an extra few bob, so they can have a pint or whatever as a little thank you. But that’s normally how it works.

As for them turning up in travel packets, well, you could actually take the number and report the ticket holder. Selling tickets to the travel agent’s is not on really.

And no. I’m not being all moral about that. I have nothing against someone making a few quid, or the decent fans who buy them as it’s the only way they can get a ticket. But the problem is… it’s not just them making the few quid, and it’s not always decent fans who end up with the tickets.

It’s mostly tourists getting the tickets, and companies/corporations making the few quid – was it Thomson’s?

Well, anyway, that’s the problem… locals and fans are being priced out by these companies, as the companies are selling them to the highest bidders, and more and more tourists are diluting the atmosphere.

When I say tourists, people on here seem to think I mean fans who aren’t from Liverpool. That’s not what I mean at all…
I mean the prawn sandwich brigade. The ones who destroyed the atmosphere at Old Trafford, and only go as an alternative to going to the theatre or to a fancy restaurant for their entertainment.

And like I’ve said in here many times… this is only going to get worse as H&G try to up the revenue by dragging in more and more corporates and tourists, and also kill 2 birds with 1 stone, by selling tickets of the very people who would be the ones demonstrating against them.

I know some people in here don’t like me posting this sort of stuff. In fact, I’ve been sniped at a few times for it. But fuck em anyway… and as they say, don’t shoot the messenger. I only tell it how it honestly is.

Glad you had a good time lad. Next time make sure you visit the Punch and Judy… one of the best alehouses for a craic in Liverpool.

And thank god, me works done round here now. So, I’m off out down the river with me dog away from that fucking Talk Shite… Why oh why, do I bloody listen to it. I must be one of them masochist fellas…

The subject has just been Rooney must be given the England captainacy. Now there’s a good moral role model, eh!

And I kid you not, they are queing up to say Gerrard shouldn’t get it because he’s a thug who got caught brawling in a bar.

Just a shame Gerrard wasn’t sacked from the England squad as far as I’m concerned, but the mind does really boggle.

Oh well, off down the river.

Steve lad…. one fatal flaw to that logic – what bloody money?

He’s had none for the last 3 transfer windows.

Now off the river defo.

http://www.guillembalague.com has a good piece about the present state of the club and a possible investment.

LB, went to see “The Road” a couple of weeks ago. I had already read the book so I was well prepared. I brought along my oldest kid (21) and she was rather concerned about my taste as I had been bigging up the book beforehand. I think the movie kind of passed her by actually.
I reckon the very reasons you would find it difficult to watch are the very reasons why every adult (male ?) should go and see it. Absolutely brilliant but a very tough movie.

Cheers for the report Galway. Kind of backs up what FS has been saying all along. The Kop are behind Rafa, the Team and the Club even IF they are pissed off with the way things have gone. There will be time aplenty to analyse and profer reasoned opinions as to the future direction of the club etc.. come the off-season.

Steve, 302, for me Rafa has put too much time and effort into this club to walk away.
I think he really believes we are on the way up (if we can get through this nightmare of a season).
As for the broader picture of lack of funds etc.. well I think that if Rafa was left completely clear, knew exactly how things were going to be, even if that meant he had to wheel and deal then he would be able to operate and, for me, he would stay and give it another 2 years or so.
It’s really not like it’s a cast iron certainty it’s gonna be better anywhere else is it ?
I think his biggest problem is not (just) the lack of funds but the constant lying and conniving and shifting of goalposts by Mutt & Geoff. Rafa does not know where he stands and therefore cannot plan whom to buy and therefore everything becomes and mess for us on the transfer front which in turn affects the overall smooth running of the club, contract talks etc…
Now even his biggest fans would say Rafa has a bit of the “control freak” in him and I reckon this lack of clarity must drive him mad.

How many Roman Abromovich’s and Abu Dhabi Multi Billionaire are there out there ? Not a lot.
Platini and the beaurocrats are slowly going to make football pay for itself everywhere in Europe (see the German Model for example). We are all going to have to balance our books and the days of spending more than you bring in are going fast.

Purslow and Ayres are, it seems, at least getting the world-wide marketing side sorted out. That is positive for the Club, not just Mutt & Geoff. They must also see what makes Rafa tick and what makes him lose the rag and I hope they can pin the Yanks down and get a bottom line from them. Unfortunately they are leeches but while they are there they have to be dealt with.

One more thing. As for the Manure kerfuffle and the green and white scarves and meeting with businessmen in order to effect a buy-out of their leeches i.e The Glaziers. What is happening with the liverpool supporters trust, Rogan Taylor etc and supposed buyout of our gangsters ? Does anyone know how that is going ?
It’s one (very important) thing to make sure the Yanks are made very unwelcome at Anfield and in Liverpool. That may be one way of building more momentum toward the ultimate goal of ridding the club of them but what’s gonna happen if and when they go ? How organised and financially powerful are the supporters group ? Anyone have an idea ?

Apparently Wayne Bridge’s bird (the one John Terry had been shagging) was also at it with another Prem footballer as well!

Probably another Chav player, but wouldn’t it be great if it was Wayne Rooney?

On second thoughts she is probably about 70 years too young for him!

FS, That’s why I wrote “should funds somehow become available”

Rafa has bought several players over the last few years, and I’m just saying that he probably had the final say in all of them and that wouldn’t be the case in Spain or Italy.

And he knows it!

Mind you don’t fall in that river now! (lol)

FS – wrote post before I saw what you had written. I take your point that one of the ways Mutt & Geoff are gonna max the income is by pushing up prices at Anfield and I also take the point that if it has the effect of killing off he more vocal and loyal (and generally clued in and anti-them) support it won’t bother them one little bit.
A quiet and docile Anfield, an expectant and clueless camera waving crowd giving the players and manager hell… well it’s no problem for these muppets.
Sorry about that, not a very uplifting thought is it. One more reason to get them out asap.

That’s another good point you raised Dougle, whose to say the grass would indeed be greener on the “juve” side of the fence.

Better the devil you know (or in Rafa’s case, the two American tits he knows) than a bunch of Fiat driving shady looking Italian football men who want to tell you who to buy or sell, eh?

Just a thought Dougle-how about getting Bill Gates interested in soccer,he’s a philanthropist.

Dougle, after that film I had to hide the shoe laces and sharp objects.

Steve – The Road is a post apocolyptic movie. WARNING here – there will be spoilers below so if anyone wants to see it without knowing the plot stop reading now.

There are no animals, no plant life, no birds. Hardly any human beings left and the ones that are alive are starving. So much so that most have turned to murder, rape and canabalism. The bloke from Lord of the Rings is in it. (The main dude – not the hobits, not the elf nor Orlando Bloom nor Gandalph).
Well the guy is with his son trying to make it to the coast and while they do so they have to find food, shelter and avoid the rapists, murderers and canabals. By the time they make it to the coast he is very sick and dying. Fuck all is on the coast anyway. He dies. The boy is found by a another family who are good people. The End credits roll.

It has had very good reviews which is why I went to see it. Its a real film critics movie. Bloody well depressing so therefore gets 4 or 5 stars. I thought it was shite.

Has anyone read this?

http://www.thisisanfield.com/2010/02/02/liverpool-in-talks-with-potential-investors/

Minutes from Christian Purslow and SOS Meeting
Tue 02 Feb 2010

The Spirit of Shankly Management Committee are disappointed that Christian Purslow has been unable to agree the minutes of the meeting that took place with him on the 21st January 2010. We have decided that to be fair to both the Club and the Union that we should put out the version we sought agreement upon and what has been returned by Mr Purslow as his recollection of what he said – these are below.

There were twelve members of the Union present at the meeting and the version we produced for agreement was previously agreed as a fair representation of what had been said. We will leave it to members to decide which version they consider more reliable.

We recognise that this step may put our relationship with the senior management of the Club at risk, but the risk is worth it when balanced with putting out a version of a meeting that in good conscience we could not accept as a fair representation of what was said.

Spirit of Shankly Minutes

Attended – Christian Purslow, James McKenna, Graham Smith, Jon Paul Hill, Nicky Allt, Fran Stanton, Stephen Monaghan, Kieth Culvin, Daniel Nicolson, Tommy Keiner, Andy Williams, Paul Gardner, Peter Hooton.

Apologies – Paul Rice, Sam Armstrong

GS gave introductions to the meeting and how it would run. Due to a shortage of available time, it was agreed that we would go through what questions we could now, and any not covered would be answered by CP later via email. CP said he had imagined we would want to talk about DSG (Debt, Stadium and Governance – which covers investment and ownership).

Club Finances

1. You confirmed to us at the last meeting

……..that currently the TOTAL debt owed by the Club and its associated companies was approximately £245m. GS asked him specifically to confirm that that figure represented the total debt (rather than just that owed by LFC) and he confirmed the £245m figure again.

Can you confirm if this figure has changed at all and as a result what is the TOTAL current debt for the Club and its associated companies?

CP – The debt is currently £237 million. This is the total debt for the holding companies and the club itself.

2. It would not be unreasonable for RBS to be asking for the debt to be reduced, and presumably the Club has this as a priority too. Is it fair to say that, if only in the short term, the Club’s strategy to reduce the debt is focussed on an increase in income plus the liquidation of some of the playing assets?

CP – My project and task is to reduce the debt by £100 million. This is a requirement from our bankers and will allow us to look at a more flexible and longer term refinancing with our bankers when this investment is brought in. Ideally we would like a three or four year refinancing deal rather than the shorter ones we have had recently. The reduction in borrowings was agreed by the bank, CP and the owners when I was appointed.

The £100 million investment will be for new shares, and will not go towards anything else other than paying down the debt, reducing it to £137 million. This new investment will also mean a dilution of the current ownership, fans should be delighted I have come in to reduce the debt.

3. What is your current view of the UEFA proposals about Club’s finances and debt playing a part in their ability to take part in UEFA sanctioned events?

CP – I am highly supportive of the plans, and want to make us self sufficient. Not worried by the plans or how it could affect us, as we will be living within our means.

Investment

4. On the 25th October 2009 you said that you expected there to be new investment in the Club between three to six months from that date. As we are now in the period you indicated can you confirm that you still expect this time frame to be achieved?

CP – There are no promises, just an expectation and hope that it can be done in that time. I cannot guarantee it. As of now, I had expected it to be completed by February, but now I expect it to be around Easter.

The team’s performance has an affect on commercial interest, it is talked about by potential investors as while we might make up the lost Champions’ League revenue through a good run in the Europa Cup, the loss of Champions’ League football next season would impact upon income and this has a relevance to investors. We reassure investors, of course and we already make excellent profits.

There had been around 25-30 investors interested, although some were clearly not seriously interested once we had spoken with them. There are now around five or six potential investors with whom we are talking.

5. Can you also confirm that the intention (as reported) would be to secure investment from a third party for a 25% share of the Club – is this still the intention? If not, what is the current intention?

CP – It is not a given that £100 million will buy 25%. I need to find £100 million, and if this is for 1% or 100% I don’t care. I am concentrating on getting the investment needed. Some investors may have issues with working with the present owners, but some don’t just want a percentage, some want 100%. No investor is going to want to invest £100 million and have a smaller stake than the present owners.

KC – Do Hicks and Gillett value the club too high?

CP – No one would invest at the level they want.

JM – If the bank want £100 million paying down on the debt as part of the last re-financing, what will they ask for in the summer? Will it just be for 12 months again?

CP – I have got a conditional agreement for a 3/4 year loan deal. At the last re-financing agreement, Hicks and Gillett paid down the debt with their own money. A new investor will pay down the £100 million needed now. The banks want us reducing debt and being cautious. RBS are annoyed and unhappy with Hicks and Gillett and they want a change of ownership. The £100 million pay down is compulsory, it has to be done. I will not agree to a deal that is unworkable for us, but we need to have the owners own and the managers manage.

AW – Are there discussions with other banks, to try and get a better deal for any re-financing?

CP – There have been around 30 meetings with different banks, we want the best deal for the club. If other banks will give us a better deal, we will work with them. No other bank will take us on with £237 million debt, they want less debt. RBS are unhappy with the present ownership, so an improved situation at the cub will improve our relationship with them. They want to continue working with us.

6. Share Liverpool have regularly asked to be considered part of any new investment but despite requests for what figure they would need to raise to be considered they have been told they would not be considered in any “first wave” of investment – why is this? And what figure is being looked for from any investor in what you have described as this “first wave”?

PLEASE LET US HAVE A RESPONSE TO THIS QUESTION

7. You said recently-”If the right investor made the right approach at the right time, as a custodian of the club I’d be the first to endorse that – and I’m sure the owners would be.” How do you / the owners define “The right investor”? – Someone who is primarily a suitable custodian of LFC and what it stands for (not like Hicks and Gillett), or someone who will simply give Hicks and Gillett a significant return on their “investment”?

PLEASE LET US HAVE A RESPONSE TO THIS QUESTION

8. What was your involvement with the club and Steve Morgan prior to the purchase of the Club by Hicks and Gillett – did you have any role in the shareholders agreeing to the takeover deal?

PLEASE LET US HAVE A RESPONSE TO THIS QUESTION

Transfer Window Funding

9. The fans remain unconvinced about the new method of valuing our transfer budget by including wages and new contract deals within it – reports suggest that despite the two current sales that have gone through the Manager will not receive even the sale proceeds to reinvest in this transfer window – is it fair for us to assume that sale proceeds from the Summer transfer window, this and the future window will to some significant extent be used to reduce the Club’s borrowings? If not can we expect sale proceeds plus what you described as “the usual £20m” to be spent in the Summer?

CP – The reduction of debt does not affect player sales as there is a separate player account and money does not come from this for anything else.

KC – Is the “Player Account” visible in the accounts?

CP – No, it will show total amounts, we have around 50-60 bank accounts so we list the total. The nature of funding the player account is it must balance, no more can go out than has come in. If we have £30 million in the account, then we can only spend £30 million. The player account is funded by player sales and any profit. Presently profit goes primarily towards paying the debt, so reducing debt means we have more money to spend.

The present owners have made it clear that they will not invest more money of their own; they have already invested around £130 million. We will not be like Manchester City or Chelsea as we are living within our means.

In the summer we had seven new contracts signed on new deals for existing players; this had to be funded from player sales, losing other wage costs and the profit available. Agents’ costs for new signings or contract renewals, around 1.5 %, come out of the player account as well.

Most deals are paid over three years. If we purchase for say £10 million, we pay just over £3million each year.

JM – Gillett has told fans including myself in the past that they have used their own money for player purchases, how does this fit with the player account about being self sufficient?

CP – I am not the owners, I am the management. They did invest their own money, £15-£20 million each season for the first few years. This wasn’t good for us and it needs to be managed. They have no money now to invest; they have spent £130 million, and cannot borrow further.

PG – Will the transfer net spend always be zero as, what goes in is all that can go out?

CP – The Player Account is made up of player sales and any profit put into it. Profit will not be as much this season due to disappointing season so far.

10. It was a coincidence no doubt but on the day his son resigned, Tom Hicks Senior emailed a fan saying that the Summer transfer window for Liverpool FC would be “big”. While appreciating that you can’t give specifics can we assume that “big” can be defined as significantly more than using the sale proceeds from the previous two transfer windows plus our “usual” £20m expenditure?

CP – I can’t speak for Tom Hicks, but he has no involvement in transfers, I do. We will only have what we make and generate. The budget will only change if we get a sugar daddy.

Stadium

11. Liverpool City Council recently announced that the Club had said that building work on the stadium would start in April. Was it true you said this to LCC? What form will such “building work” take? Is it just enabling works and then a halt or would a start date mean an uninterrupted development – if so what would be the proposed opening date for the new stadium?

CP – It is not true that we said work would start in April. LFC and EFC supported the city in World Cup bid. When asked by Lord Mawhinney about the stadium being built, I said there was investment interest and talks with banks on financing a stadium. Investment has to happen for the stadium to start, and we expect that around Easter time.

If we get investment we can look at further investment to start the stadium work. How the City Council interpreted this as starting work in April I don’t know, you will have to ask them.

KC – How will the stadium be financed?

CP – A combination of a long term mortgage, equity, and using the reduction in interest repayments will be available for a stadium as the debt will be reduced.

Any investment of £100 million will have to then be followed by support in financing the stadium. There is a six to nine month process before stadium work can start, tendering and legal processes. If investment comes in April, we are working upon an opening date for the new stadium in Summer 2014. I doubt work will start this year but I would expect it to started next year.

Our approach is to cost and time a stadium build by balancing the extra costs on a quick build to Rolls Royce standards, which is the expensive option as opposed to a longer build to VW standards where the costs can be less. We will have to balance these up.

12. If the new stadium is not being started in April has the current owner and senior management regime ever considered a redevelopment of Anfield, something which the previous regime would not consider despite there being compelling arguments that it could supply the size of stadium needed, without the disruption that has been suggested as a major reason why a redevelopment cannot work?

CP – Refurbishment will not happen. We would be playing in front of two or two and a half stands for a few seasons, and fans would not want that. There would also be the loss of revenue.

KC – Have fans been asked? Would you canvass fans?

CP – Our view is that to punch our weight we need the finance coming in. If we look at Manchester United and Arsenal, they are making say £100 million whilst we make £50 million. It will give us £50 million extra.

13. Would you be prepared to meet with those who have done some serious work on a proposal and if not why not?

CP – On the basis that we have dismissed the concept we see no reason to.

14. What has been the total spent to date on the new stadium in terms of planning, architects etc?

PLEASE LET US HAVE A RESPONSE TO THIS QUESTION

Community

15. What is the position relating to SOS meeting with various departments within the club to learn more about the club’s Community and operations? Meetings were arranged with the Community Department which were then cancelled. We were told all requests for meetings had to go through CP.

CP – I didn’t know that. Will get Andrea to contact PG, haven’t seen Andrea much or spoken to her in past few months.

There then followed a short any other business type of discussion. NA gave CP insight into why the Union came about and that fans were unhappy with the lies.

CP – I will not spin or lie. I am only here because I am a fan. I don’t have to do this, but I hated what I saw from the outside looking in. I share the same concerns as you.

DN – All through the meeting it is all about IF, what if? What do we do if what if doesn’t happen?

CP – There is no answer to “what if?” I am optimistic, but there is no Plan B. There may be one in the future, but not yet, I have confidence in this plan working.

DN – If investors don’t come into the club, do we become a mid-table team?

CP – LFC is for sale. It will be sold. The owners have to sell, they are out of money. The bank want it sold, the fans want it sold and people want to buy it. The problems on the pitch at the minute aren’t the fault of the owners. It is not simple enough to say that new owners will guarantee results on the pitch.

FS – At the moment we are only buying to replace players, not to improve.

CP – That isn’t true. We have signed England’s best right back and Alberto Aquilani.

FS – But we have bought them in replacement of players sold, like Arbeloa and Alonso.

CP – They are improvements, but we can’t foresee player’s form or injuries.

GS – Can we meet any new investors before they come in, to explain our view of the Club’s philosophy and introduce ourselves and the fans’ expectations?

CP – Ok. I wanted investment just like you do; I stood up at AGMs and said that. Those who sold the club are responsible too. The promises of Hicks and Gillett are unforgivable. Hicks and Gillett cannot hang onto the club.

KC – New investors will be watched carefully and not trusted easily.

CP – New investors will be scrutinised and they know this.

NA – Do you have a vote on the board?

CP – Yes, a controlling vote. Hicks and Gillett have let me in. I will do the right thing.

NA – Will you stay on if we get new owners?

CP – I will be there if needed or asked. If not I will go. My interest is Debt, Stadium and Governance/Ownership. I will have failed if I do not secure investment.

KC – Will you come to an AGM? Fans would appreciate it and be able to form their own opinions of you.

CP – I will think about it. I don’t want the profile, was happy enough with being unknown seven months ago. I am happy to speak with you and you distribute what I say.

Christian Puslow Minutes

Attended – Christian Purslow, James McKenna, Graham Smith, Jon Paul Hill, Nicky Allt, Fran Stanton, Stephen Monaghan, Kieth Culvin, Daniel Nicolson, Tommy Keiner, Andy Williams, Paul Gardner, Peter Hooton.

Apologies – Paul Rice, Sam Armstrong

GS gave introductions to the meeting and how it would run. Due to a shortage of available time, it was agreed that we would go through what questions we could now, and any not covered would be answered by CP later via email where possible.

Club Finances

1. You confirmed to us at the last meeting

……..that currently the TOTAL debt owed by the Club and its associated companies was approximately £245m. GS asked him specifically to confirm that that figure represented the total debt (rather than just that owed by LFC) and he confirmed the £245m figure again.

Can you confirm if this figure has changed at all and as a result what is the TOTAL current debt for the Club and its associated companies?

CP – The debt is currently £237 million. This is the total debt for the holding companies and the club itself.

2. It would not be unreasonable for RBS to be asking for the debt to be reduced, and presumably the Club has this as a priority too. Is it fair to say that, if only in the short term, the Club’s strategy to reduce the debt is focussed on an increase in income plus the liquidation of some of the playing assets?

CP – One of our key priorities is to reduce the debt by £100 million. This is a requirement from our bankers and will allow us to look at a more flexible and longer term refinancing with our bankers when this investment is brought in. Ideally we would like a three or four year refinancing deal rather than the shorter ones we have had recently. The targeted reduction in borrowings was agreed by the bank, CP and the owners when I was appointed.

The £100 million investment will be made by the issuance of new shares, and will not go towards anything else other than paying down the debt, reducing it to £137 million. This new investment will also mean a dilution of the current ownership.

3. What is your current view of the UEFA proposals about Club’s finances and debt playing a part in their ability to take part in UEFA sanctioned events?

CP – I am highly supportive of the plans, and want to make us self sufficient. Not worried by the plans or how it could affect us, as we will be living within our means.

Investment

4. On the 25th October 2009 you said that you expected there to be new investment in the Club between three to six months from that date. As we are now in the period you indicated can you confirm that you still expect this time frame to be achieved?

CP – There are no promises, just an expectation and hope that it can be done in that time. I cannot guarantee it.

There had been around 25-30 investors interested, although some were clearly not seriously interested once we had spoken with them. There are now around five or six potential investors with whom we are talking.

5. Can you also confirm that the intention (as reported) would be to secure investment from a third party for a 25% share of the Club – is this still the intention? If not, what is the current intention?

CP – I have seen this reported and I think it comes from the sales document prepared by the owners bankers last year. The reality is much less proscriptive. The owners and the board are considering different sorts of proposals which could involve new investors taking a stake or a full takeover. The market will determine valuation and we have enough interest to suggest that the owners valuation is realistic.

The current lead bank RBS is highly supportive of the club and this is a vitally important and positive thing. With new investment they have already agreed that they would provide new long term facilities and would also like to participate in financing the stadium and they are not the only bank who has met with the club and expressed interest in the stadium project, many have.

But the common denominator of all these financing providers is that we need new investment first and so this is the key first step.

6. Share Liverpool have regularly asked to be considered part of any new investment but despite requests for what figure they would need to raise to be considered they have been told they would not be considered in any “first wave” of investment – why is this? And what figure is being looked for from any investor in what you have described as this “first wave”?

CP – We have met with Share Liverpool and welcome their interest in the club. They have not been turned away or told they won’t be considered. It is a practical reality that their funding would be difficult to bring about in the time horizons which the club needs to work within.

7. You said recently-”If the right investor made the right approach at the right time, as a custodian of the club I’d be the first to endorse that – and I’m sure the owners would be.” How do you / the owners define “The right investor”? – Someone who is primarily a suitable custodian of LFC and what it stands for (not like Hicks and Gillett), or someone who will simply give Hicks and Gillett a significant return on their “investment”?

CP – I prefer to say that it is not about the personalities-but that it is about new investment being made with a clear appreciation of all aspects of Liverpool FC – its needs, its plans, its unique character. This comes from spending lots of time with the club beforehand or in business speak-doing detailed due diligence. You should rest assured any investor in this economic environment will spend plenty of time understanding LFC before committing and this is a good thing if however sometimes painfully slow. I would rather get it right than rush and our banks and owners agree.

8. What was your involvement with the club and Steve Morgan prior to the purchase of the Club by Hicks and Gillett – did you have any role in the shareholders agreeing to the takeover deal?

CP – I had a small shareholding in the Club for a number of years like many fans. I gave Steve Morgan some informal advice for a short time in 2004 when he was looking at a possible investment. Like all small shareholders I obviously had no involvement in the sale process in 2007. This was a matter for the controlling shareholder and his board of directors and their advisers.

Transfer Window Funding

9. The fans remain unconvinced about the new method of valuing our transfer budget by including wages and new contract deals within it – reports suggest that despite the two current sales that have gone through the Manager will not receive even the sale proceeds to reinvest in this transfer window – is it fair for us to assume that sale proceeds from the Summer transfer window, this and the future window will to some significant extent be used to reduce the Club’s borrowings? If not can we expect sale proceeds plus what you described as “the usual £20m” to be spent in the Summer?

CP – No proceeds from player sales are used to pay down bank debt. The proceeds go into our player account and are available for buying players. Full stop.

The player account has to balance, this is normal. In the past the owners have topped this account up with significant sums but we are now seeking to be self funding which is, in my view, much more sustainable and, in fact, more in keeping with where football regulation may be heading.

The key point is that the idea that somehow we have sold a player to pay off bank debt is just wrong. It isn’t possible. Last summer a large amount of debt was paid off by the owners personally. And at the same time, they having by then invested some 130m pounds, it was agreed we would fund our transfer spending for the time being out of our own resources, simple as that. We are a very profitable club and so long as we reach our goals on the pitch we are able to provide the manager with a healthy share of profits to invest in the transfer market as well as of course every penny we generate from player sales.

This January the manager has had plenty of funding available but has not chosen to bring anyone in other than Maxi Rodriguez, a full Argentinian international. And we will not sell players simply to leave money in the account-we need our assets on the pitch not in the bank so we are strong for the second half of the season. Rafa and I have spent more time in January talking about our summer transfer plans than the January window-which tells you all about what a thin market January actually is.

The value of our squad today is substantially greater than it was five years ago-unrecognisably so. This reflects well on both the owners for funding that period of investment. But this has been enormously expensive and now they have accepted we need new investment to pay down debt and get the stadium project back on track. These are now our key goals.

10. It was a coincidence no doubt but on the day his son resigned, Tom Hicks Senior emailed a fan saying that the Summer transfer window for Liverpool FC would be “big”. While appreciating that you can’t give specifics can we assume that “big” can be defined as significantly more than using the sale proceeds from the previous two transfer windows plus our “usual” £20m expenditure?

CP – I suspect he meant big meaning “active” as opposed to small, meaning relatively inactive in January. But I can’t and won’t speak for owners comments. You understand the reality of our transfer policy.

Stadium

11. Liverpool City Council recently announced that the Club had said that building work on the stadium would start in April. Was it true you said this to LCC? What form will such “building work” take? Is it just enabling works and then a halt or would a start date mean an uninterrupted development – if so what would be the proposed opening date for the new stadium?

CP – It is not true that we said work would start in April. LFC and EFC supported the city in World Cup bid. When asked by Lord Mawhinney about the stadium being built, I said there was investment interest and talks with banks on financing a stadium. But that Investment has to happen for the stadium to start, and we hope that will be done by Easter time.

If we get investment we can look at further investment to start the stadium work. How the City Council interpreted this as starting work in April I don’t know, you will have to ask them.

KC – How will the stadium be financed?

CP – We will explore all options. Clearly a large construction project of this kind would normally involve long term project finance, both debt and equity. The fact that we will have substantially reduced our debt at LFC before any stadium project means we will have much more of our profit available for servicing a stadium financing. But it is too early to even guess what this will look like. We have to focus on step one.

And we should all have no doubts that this is a long term project. Even if we bring in new investment and then sort out stadium funding quickly thereafter it takes nearly three years to build a stadium. So we are looking at 2013-2014 time period if all goes well.

12. If the new stadium is not being started in April has the current owner and senior management regime ever considered a redevelopment of Anfield, something which the previous regime would not consider despite there being compelling arguments that it could supply the size of stadium needed, without the disruption that has been suggested as a major reason why a redevelopment cannot work?

CP – We are considering all options but I must say I have not seen a compelling case for redeveloping Anfield. The serious long term disruption for the fans and the team of playing with one or two stands out of action isn’t very attractive. The revenue shortfalls are an obvious issue. More importantly the current management team, owners and all potential new investors strongly believe that a new stadium is in fact a transformational opportunity for the club to actually compete financially with our main rivals. Simple financial projections show LFC in a new stadium as the largest and most cash generative club in England. This is a prize worth chasing and that’s why it’s our priority. Only with a new stadium will we have the financial capacity to have a similar wage bill as our top rivals and still be self sufficient, profitable and properly managed.

13. Would you be prepared to meet with those who have done some serious work on a proposal and if not why not?

CP – We have a lot on our plate. And an excellent team looking at all the options.

14. What has been the total spent to date on the new stadium in terms of planning, architects etc?

CP – Substantial sums were spent in the period up to the new stadium getting full planning permission and this is an asset which will be valuable when we get the project restarted.

Community

15. What is the position relating to SOS meeting with various departments within the club to learn more about the club’s Community and operations? Meetings were arranged with the Community Department which were then cancelled. We were told all requests for meetings had to go through CP.

CP – Ian Cotton oversees our community activities and I will make sure he schedules a meeting with your community representative. I was not aware of any such request.

There then followed a short any other business type of discussion. NA gave CP insight into why the Union came about and that fans were unhappy with the lies.

CP – I assure you I will not spin or lie. I am under no obligation to meet with you-the fact I do is because all fans have a legitimate right to express views and I want you to feel that you have a channel of communication into the club you all love.

We are working together, management, owners, our banks to bring in new investment which is the key first step.

In the meantime my first priority is supporting the manager and players in trying to give them the best background and circumstances to do their work. We all need to be behind them all the time even when we have a bad result.

And as I said to a small group of you when I arrived. The most difficult part of bringing in investment is the coverage of disturbances or protests at games. Much is overplayed but it gets read. The fact is that the owners are working hard to bring in investment. They are not an obstacle to this process-indeed they started it and bringing me in confirmed it. But it is tough to persuade new investors of the attraction of the club if they think they will get hassled every time they visit. So I again urge you all to think about this aspect and try and do the right thing. We are making slow but sure progress. Please help us get the job done and we will happily continue to keep you and your members informed via this channel of communication.

Cheers for that LB. Very interesting report.

The SOS version had some interesting lines including ….

“CP – It is not a given that £100 million will buy 25%…. No investor is going to want to invest £100 million and have a smaller stake than the present owners.”

“CP – … The promises of Hicks and Gillett are unforgivable. Hicks and Gillett cannot hang onto the club.”

“LFC is for sale. It will be sold. The owners have to sell, they are out of money. The bank want it sold, the fans want it sold and people want to buy it.”

“The player account is funded by player sales and any profit. Presently profit goes primarily towards paying the debt, so reducing debt means we have more money to spend.”

(Well we know all about that don’t we !)

” The most difficult part of bringing in investment is the coverage of disturbances or protests at games. Much is overplayed but it gets read.”

Well it puts a little meat on the bones (eh LB !!).

I don’t know obviously because we only ever get smoke and mirrors from the owners but just perhaps the Muppets are on the way out. If what SOS report is true (i.e Purslow said these things) then it doesn’t look like they have anywhere to go but sell.

For me I’d up the protests by the way. Perhaps it would initially “upset” potential investors but also It will help root out anybody without some sort of appreciation of the soul of LFC. There is no point in getting rid of the Muppets only to get more of the same in. And that has to be made crystal clear to whoever might be considering it. Like it or not this is not a factory or a clothesline but something that goes very deep in a lot of people. There are consequences and responsibilities to “owning” or being “guardians” such an institution. To be very honest I am surprised that the Muppets have gotten away so lightly … so far.

For me I have no problem with a well-run, book balanced club that. I don’t like the sugar-daddy route personally. I think Chavski and Citeh are ugly jokes.

That’s my opinion only ok !!

FS, I have no issue with people lending out their season tickets to people like yourself and knight at face value, but it is in some peoples nature to take as much as they can for what they have to offer.
If you are strapped for cash and can’t make it to a particular game you havee 2 options, give your ticket to a mate for face value, or sell it to one of the travel agents for double face value or more.
I personally have never sold a spare ticket for anything more than face value, but I have plenty of mates who apply for tickets through our local club for GAA matches with the sole intention of selling them on at a big profit to get money for boozing in the pub while wathcing the games.
The thing is that with the GAA championship, it will be another die-hard fan that will more than likely buy the ticket so the atmosphere won’t be affected cos its the nature of the game, but with a club like liverpool they will fall in to hands of people who just want to say they’ve been to anfield – prawn sandwich brigade.
This will become a bigger problem for liverpool as times get harder and the option of making a few easy quid is so easy for people. Of course I am sure there are those who do it continuosly as opposed to the average joe who does it cos they have to.
As you say, this suits the 2 muppets, cos the more out of towners you have at the game the better cos they are the ones who go to the club shop and buy the latest merchandise and this lines the pockets of the muppets.

I was chatting to blokes on the kop, some really sound guys in the seats around us. I just wonder how they feel if they go to the same seats every week and see 2 different punters in our seats every week.

Interesting article above, dashes any hopes of rafa having any spending money in the summer. I do think getting the club more solvent is the right direction to be taking, reduce the debt, makes the club more attractive to investors.
But sadly we all know that the only reason that this is being done is so that when those 2 to piss off and sell the club, they will be jumping on a plane back to the states with bags full of money.

I’ve just read the minutes from the meeting and came in here to post the link. It looks like LB has beaten me to it.

But there is 2 versions of the minutes…
The minutes SOS have released, and the version Purslow agreed to.

Having just read through them both, there’s no way I’m wading through LB’s post…
Three times would be enough to have me jumping in the river, nevermind falling in.

So, I don’t know which version LB’s is and I thought I’d post the SOS version for anyone who wants to read. Just add an h to get the Union’s minutes….
ttp://www.spiritofshankly.com/news/Minutes-from-Christian-Purslow-and-SOS-Meeting.html

I could put up the link to Purslow’s, but why.
I know who I trust… the supporters union or the club’s sanitised version?

Also here’s the union’s statement about the meeting. Just add the h…
ttp://www.spiritofshankly.com/news/SOS-comment-on-Christian-Purslow-Meeting.html

As for meself, there’s a few questions I would have liked to have asked. This being the most important… Purslow insists that H&G have invested 130 million of their own money. Well, show me? In fact, show me a knicker they have put in the hat?

I know there’s millions disappeared. I know they’ve claimed a million each in personal expenses each season since “Buying us,” and I know we’ve spent exactly less than nothing in the last 3 transfer windows – and it looks like we’ll be spending even less until they fuck off.

I’d also like to know why the minutes from a “public” meeting that took place on the 21st of January have only just been released and only after they’d been censored.

And I’d like to know the answer to the questions SOS posed that Purslow refused to answer.

In fact, there’s loads more I’d like to know, and add to this. But I’ll leave it at that, as I know if you read it you’ll be the same as me… none the wiser really.

As I think the only answer we all want is… when are they going to fuck off?

Quick answer to a couple of other posts… Dougle, it looks like the fan’s group, Share Liverpool want to invest. I don’t know how much they have to do so, but from the minutes it seems like they want to be considered for the whole investment of 100 million but it’s one of the questions Purslow wouldn’t answer.

And Galway, I’ve never honestly came across anyone who doesn’t use a season ticket and keeps selling it on at a profit. Of course, this could happen, but I can’t see it – It takes years on a waiting list to get a season ticket. Most of them are handed down from generation to generation. And the people who have them have sat next to the same people for years on end… so like you said, the people sitting next to them wouldn’t wear that one.

Still, when you think what these pair of shysters are taking out of the club, who can blame the odd ST holder from making a few quid on a few games that they can’t get to.

I certainly wouldn’t blame them, especially considering what’s happening to their money after years and years of faithful support.

The whole thing really is a terrible mess. And I shouldn’t feel the need to say it in almost every post, but I do honestly believe and fear that if we lose Rafa at this time we are going to drop like a lead balloon.

PS… Gerry, just a suggestion, I think we need a blog on this so people can discuss this and look at the whole big picture instead of throwing a wobbler next time we don’t batter some team.

I have one big problem with what SOS has done, yes it was really great to read how much in the shit the Twats are and that they will be forced to dilute or get out totally but they dropped Purslow right into the crap.

From their interview he is a staunch red, working for the benefit of the club from the inside. To expose his true feelings about the inner workings and position of his bosses was very short sighted and very counter productive. I can only imagine what the Twats must be thinking and how much trust Purslow has lost and how much his influence will be negated.

This information could have been leaked in another manner, preserving his integrity and preserving his authority to work for the good of LFC from the inside. I will be very surprised if he remains in his post if H&G remain in control. His casting vote will be lost because they cannot afford to let him have it as they know he will work against them.

Very stupid and very shortsighted by SOS, they have also lost an ally and a trusted source of information, while leaving the club in a worse off position because Purslows opposition has been undermined.

I agree with Keith 100% on that one!!

We close to signing a pre contract with Milan Jovanovic!

Sorry Keith, I can see your point but can’t agree…
SOS have made it plain that it’s all out warfare against H&G. This is the mandate of the members. So I’m glad they are keeping everything absolutely transparent and being true to their word. And anyway, you can’t make an omellette without cracking a few eggs.

Its a two edged sword FS.

I agree we (all fans) need to be waging all out war, as they (G&H) are on the high ground with the position of power… but on the surface, it would appear from one or two things said, that Purslow is “on our side” as it were (as much as he can be in his position.)

I think there are some very, very “telling” comments in both versions of the minutes.

I made a comment a few blogs back that I felt there was a helluva lot more to what’s going on at LFC than we can see, or are being told.

My comment was discounted as “conspiracy theory” and I was more or less told to “steady on” …as though I was some complete fuckin nutjob claiming to have been abducted by aliens and subjected to anal-probing with a cattle prod (not enjoyable by any means, but as it turned out, not nearly as uncomfortable as it sounds… not that the experience opened up new lifestyle horizons for me… but I digress… )

Purslow seems to me, to have put himself in an awkward position…
Is this his “I’m just concentrating on coaching my team” moment?
Was this his way of throwing open the doors on pandoras box? (…as Rafa did before we all learned about the Klinssman affair?)

Its a long read, but like re-watching a game, a lot can be learned from a 2nd read…

There is a LOT going on in those statements.

A number of them indicate to me, that like Rafa, Purslow is perhaps doing his job with one hand tied behind his back?

One of the more eye opening statements, indicates that the RBS wants G&H out, and no longer wants to deal with them.

The idea that G&H have “no money” …when they have both recently pocketed upwards of 300 million EACH …from the sales of their other “sports franchises” …. hmmm?
…If you do the math, they probably have invested close to the stated “130 million of their own money” into the club over their tenure… (20 each for the initial purchase, the “usual 20 million” for 2 subsequent transfer seasons, [only 10 each and a questionable claim at best?] 20 each to secure the refinance loan… might get them close) ….but then again… something like 120 million has gone “unaccounted for” from the books in that time… soooo….???

Maybe SOS dropped Purslow in the shite with these revelations… maybe he dropped himself in it by saying too much?

I’ve had a long running suspicion that as soon as he gets any investment in, Purslow would be axed anyway.
He seems a bit too cushy with Rafa for the owners to allow that to grow into a “power base”?

I understand your point completely FS and I welcome the news that the Yanks are in the shit, but the news could have come out while still protecting Purslow. By posting the two interviews undermines him not the Yanks because the truth is the truth and if an anonymous source posted a comment from a deep throat inside the club the result would have been the same while keeping Purslow integrity in tacked.

What SOS has accomplished is to alienate a fellow supporter with the same objectives as them and us while drying up the inside track on more information going forward. By not protecting their source they have rendered him ineffective to sway the Yanks because they will now understand that he has ulterior motives and is working against them and worse, plainly for all to see in that interview, he despises them as much as the rest of us. Not a great position to be in with bosses who know your true agenda and true feelings towards them. Will you trust an employee who has put the proverbial knife in your back when he says this is a great deal you should take it and run?

He would be out the door in an instant if it was me. How does that help us and SOS achieve the correct results when they will just pick and ensure they put a yes man and loyalist in his place.

A constant leaking of this information to the press, as to the content of the interview, would have achieved the same results and kept up the pressure on the Yanks while safe guarding an ally and fellow supporter.

One thing is for sure the closer they get to the deadline the more the percentage will rise for that 100mill. Anything over 26% will effectively curtail their rule by decree. Any investor whose half intelligent will want that as a minimum. I can honestly see them selling up and riding out of dodge if they get an offer with a decent profit or worse case remain as a minority investor, recoup their investment and go along for the free ride. The danger in that would be if the new owners pump money in because their shares will be further diluted. They will probably only allow that as a shareholders loan and not investment to maintain parity.

Their egos must have been sorely dented, firstly not being able to get into the club they own, secondly getting in and having to stay because they could not get out safely. Must go down well in their all gentleman’s club, “The Shagging Steer”

The constant leaking of their financial position, the skint billionaires, being forced to sell the Texas Rangers, Montreal Canadians, forced to sell Liverpool or find an investor must have caused and is causing them serious embarrassment issues. It couldn’t have happened to nicer people. Our custodians are getting a bit of payback, a right old rogering the Texas way. It was warming to see RSB flexing their muscles on our behalf.

As I said Keith, I understand your point. And obviously SOS thought long and hard before releasing the minutes.

But at the end of the day, SOS are only representing their member – not all LFC fans. In deed, they go to length in making this plain and also make it plain that some LFC fans are in direct opposition to them. Therefore, they only act on their membership’s mandate and votes… this is all out war on H&G until they are driven from the club – and that this should be made absolutely clear and all dealings must be kept transparent.

So, they’ve done the right thing by their paying membership. But on top of that, it’s also made it absolutely clear how desperate H&G are to off load the club. Which can only be a good thing.

It also made it absolutely plain that they will not be investing in the team and that they can’t pay for any work to start on the stadium… exposing the last round of lies by H&G.

In fact, for once, this is a story out of Anfield that doesn’t have to picked over, read between the lines, or searched for hidden meanings…. apart from the questions Purslow refused to ask, it’s all there in plain black and white.

But one of the huge things that I think it’s exposed is this… RSB are the last house on the block and they are about to pull the shutters. And this is where I think Purslow is protected anyway… there’s no way the yanks will sack him as he might be there employee but it’s plain he’s now pretty much acting on behalf of the bank.

So, I think Purslow is pretty much safe and I also think SOS came to this conclusion but had no choice but to release all this. Here’s just one reason why…
RSB are demanding 100 million. City are willing to pay that for Torres. I know exactly what the Yanks would do with that sort of maths.

But besides that and any other considerations… Look at how Purslow tried to get the union to agree to no more action until Easter. What then, a request for co-operation until the end of the season?

Well, based on all that’s gone before, I’d say that is pretty much likely the next step.

Then what, the World Cup is on. We can’t really act no so give us until kick off after the summer?

Once again, I could see that being the most likely outcome. But I also think there would be plenty of work going on in the background – none of it to the club’s advantage – while we sat quietly by doing nothing.

What then? Well, why did Purslow refuse to answer when questioned on why Share Liverpool aren’t being considered as first wave investors, and why did he refuse to let the union question/met any potential new investors?

And I could go on. But me point is… yes. I agree with you in lots of ways. It seems it could have been done differently and that the union could have shot themselves in the foot.

In fact, at first look it even seems the union has fought dirty, but I when I consider it fully, I think the union have done the right thing and let’s face it… the Yanks aren’t exactly fighting by The Marquess of Queensbury rules.

FS – I’ve just posted a new blog and I’ve only just got through reading today’s comments. Had I read them beforehand I might have written something a little different but strangely I guess the one I’ve posted sorta relates.

I think Purslow is between a rock and a hard place… and I’m not the least bit surprised that he didn’t answer some of the questions.

One of them was to ask him how involved he was in the sale of the club to G&H… when he wasn’t even around then?? WTF was that about?

LFC isn’t a publicly owned or traded company, so he was under no obligation to meet with SOS at all, and I think he should get Kudos for doing so and being as forthright as he was (whether in the edited version or the SOS version)

(unless of course it transpires that he is simply a corporate mouthpiece and yes man, attempting to find the best deal for G&H, rather than the “right deal” for LFC?)

But I do think it is ironic at best, to complain that we’re “airing our dirty laundry in public” and that, that “isn’t the Liverpool Way” and then demand that they answer all questions with complete transparency.

My opinion in reading the SOS version, is not that Purslow in some way “ducked the hard questions” or that after the fact, with the issuance of the “official club version of events” that he was involved in some sort of lying cover-up…
… but that he has in fact, pulled the curtain back just a little further on the Wizards of Oz.

…either way… There’s enough information for an investigative journalist to blow the lid off things… but I doubt it’ll happen.

Holy Shit, Gerry … there’s a new blog????

Where was I???

oh right… being all full of my own importance arguing with you lot in here.

Aitch …Exits stage left!

Thanks Ged. No doubt, I’d have been posting in here all bloody night.