Glad you took a break Gerry-I was getting worried about you.
Looking forward to the Reds going for winning the “Europa League Cup”- the last one they were in was a thrilling final.
I cannot add to your comment so’bring on the oponents’.

As much as I’d like to win some silverware (and this tournament definitely does have some decent enough teams left in it to be worthwhile) I still for the importance of our club in the short and medium term – I think we have to put all our eggs in the race for fourth place basket. So in that sense I’d leave Reina, Carragher, Gerrard and Kuyt on the bench tomorrow. No disrespect to Unirea (don’t they sound like some kind of organ in your body?) but we should be able to see them off handy enough over the two legs. In the long run – winning this competition only matters if we get 4th or 3rd as well. Champions League qualification is the utmost priority

Its worth noting a couple of things also.

We are tied with 3 or 4 other clubs as having won the UEFA Cup 3 times. Win it and we are once again the premier team in a competition, as the only team to have won it 4 times.

We haven’t won it in its current guise, as the Europa League (or whatever the fuck they call it now) so I’d say it’d be handy to do so… and add a medal to JC and SG’s collection that they don’t (tecnically) have.

And as Gerry pointed out, there’s a lot to be said for the “winning mentality” that winning a trophy gives the squad…
…along with the start to next season it would give us… starting on a high, playing a “big Euro club” in the Super Cup…
…you know, as opposed to playing Linfield in some poxy firendly over in Ireland (no offense or disrespect intended to our Irish breatheren,) or some “Thailand 11″ (again no disrespect intended, but the two don’t compare!)

4th place is financially important… but a Cup is a Cup and winning the bastards happens to be the business were in!

Dang! Just read that Maxi is ineligible to play for us in Europe this season.

yah but Aitch man, would you take winning the Europa cup or just finishing 4th? Obviously I’d love both but I know what I’d want if someone was to offer me either/or right now, ya know?

we have the squad to do both so thats what we aim for. but it would be nice if we could at least enjoy the last third of the season and cap it off with an apperance in a final albeit a second rate one.

Super stuff there Gerry pal.I think Rafa should go with a strong team for thursday and carry any momentum gathered into the City game.

Obviously fourth is paramount but a run in this could give the team a feel good factor as the season goes on.The carrot of being the most successful in this competition should be motivation for the players.

I`m sure Rafa is under pressure from the hierarchy to get a run in this from a revenue point of view.

Also respect has to be shown to supporters like FS who will be paying their hard earned dosh to go to games to support the team on the road especially.

This is not the champions league by no means and the competition will never return to its former glory.At one time it was harder to win than the European cup but nowadays it has lagged well behind.
Still we`re in it so lets win it.

Arthur, I completely understand your point.

I don’t believe that warrants a 5 second soundbyte of an answer… but then that seems to be my position on most sunjects

Obviously, from a financial perspective 4th place is imperative. But I don’t think missing out on 4th would be the complete disaster that the London/Manc media will portray it as.

Of course it would be a blow, both financially and from the point of view of reputation and ability to attract top talent.
But in a larger context, or perspective if you will, its one season.

Would I accept 5th and the UEFA Cup?
Well obviously, finishing 5th would not be something I’d be overjoyed about, but if it came with a Cup win, we are at least maintining some sort of Euro profile and putting medals in the cabinet… very important for attracting players, even if its not the be-all-end-all that the Champions League has been forced down our throats as… and winning it has a certain financial windfall, even if not up to CL standards.

Now having said that, of course my preference would be for 4th (or possibly even 3rd) plus the UEFA Cup.
But given the current points situation, 4th is by no means a forgone conclusion, so I think we need to take the UEFA Cup very seriously… and really go for it.

I agree with Tim. Put out our strongest 11 on Thursday and win the game in front of us not the game down the road. Truthfully the season couldent get much worse but if we were to be dumped out of the Europa league by the Romanian champions well!….. So yeah, we’re in it now, lets go for it. Full team, play some football and have a go. Then theres no complaints and no excuses (British tax system is the winner so far this month Fatty!). Do that and ya know what? We’ll probably win.

and as timmy poointed out… there’s the mentality factor!

A push for 4th is a business decision. The players won’t be getting medals, or pay-raises, or for the “fringe players” big money moves for finishing 4th.

… but win the UEFA Cup and you not only get a shiny precious to take home, you get your picture under the trophy in the LFC Museum, alongside the pantheon of LFC Legends.

…And good performances in the UEFA Cup, can get you a raise, or in the case of squad players, a big money move (the latter being just as important for us as the player, since that’s the only source of transfer revenue Rafa will have to work with in the summer!)

Success breeds success, so yes I want the UEFA Cup!

A big hi to Gerry and fellow contributors.

The more I watch the Arsenal-Porto game the more I truly wonder why we aren’t in the CL! We could surely play as scrappily as I keep seeing in this game. That said, I can’t wait for our first taste of Europa action come Thursday.

While understandably disappointed, we still have a good enough squad to last the rest of a really interesting season (all things considered).

A club in crisis might just nick that coveted fourth place, but even then, so what if that’s not possible? We might just end up lifting our maiden Europa – I mean, isn’t soccer and Liverpool examples of the anything goes policy?

Moronic media kneejerk reactions? Ha ha, enough said. Nothing to add to their crap. I’m glad that this beleaguered team is continually kept in the news by our haters out there. All publicity is good publicity to me.

Do we have depth? In more or less all positions, yes. Our second XI could easily be Diego, Kelly, Skrtel/Ayala, Aurelio, Riera/Maxi, Degen (on the right), Spearing, Pacheco, N’gog, El Zhar and any of Plessis, Darby or Ecclestone. That isn’t a bad team at all. With a little more muscle and infusion of confidence we can still hold our own and give opponents a headache or two.

We still have a fabulous manager and team behind him, knowledgeable fans who will neither be fooled or cowed, and we’re still alive in the race for fourth and Europa contention.

Why is this even important? It’s good always to take some time out and remind ourselves that we are not as bad or as good as we think. We’ve done a superb job without our core first XI, giving us much more confidence than non-Reds know. For a club in crisis, we’re just some five games behind “runaway” leaders (and favorites) Chelsea! We’re still in the top four of scoring and have actually conceded less than Arsenal.

While numbers might mean nothing to most, they’re still significant and rarely lie – at least not these ones. We always have much more than even we tend to think.

Let’s give ourselves a chance and believe. Without belief we’ll never see beyond the “crises” that only seem to be at Anfield lately.

Through the storm, we keep our heads continually high, with that wonderful song in our hearts. Without hope we’re never anything and hopelessness is a leading cause of suicide.

We are the Reds and none ever will be. Siempre es posible. Keep the faith always. YN(Ever)WA(Ever)!

I think we have the squad to compete on both fronts.Hypothetically,if i had to choose one i`d go with fourth.
I think the club needs to be playing at the highest level if we are to progress going forward.

I know the uefa is a medal and one to be proud of for a player but its the way of the football world these days that there`s more importance in competing for the champions league than actually winning the Uefa cup.

If we didn`t make the champions league next year i think it would have an effect on the club.

First of all there`s the financial situation.

Lack of CL revenue would cut down the already very modest transfer budget we would have.

Secondly our replacement would get stronger.

Say we don`t make the CL more than likely our replacement would be man city.
If they were to make it there they could attract the best players available and we all know they could afford it.They would outbid us in any player we were going for also they would have the CL football available to them.
Imagine us trying to convince a player to sign for us.What can we offer that when they look at the offer down the road our would seem more appealng?
City will ask a player would they prefer going down to a club despite having great history and traditon are a club on the way down.They`re in the Europa league,they`ve no money,there owners are a mess bla bla bla…

or would they prefer to come to Man city a club with CL footy,loads of money,club on the up bla bla bla

What do you think most players with ambition will say??

We need Champions league football.Its the only weapon we have over man city.All other departments,wages,transfer fees etc we are dwarfed by them.

So i will say i do fear if man city take our place in europes premier competition.It will be very hard to claw them back.

Rafa`s take on the proposed playoff for the fourth CL place…

hw.independent.ie/breaking-news/sport/benitez-rejects-champions-league-playoff-idea-2068116.htmlttp://ww

Feck that link somehow..

http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/sport/benitez-rejects-champions-league-playoff-idea-2068116.html

Wonderful blog Gerry. I’m particularly fond of those analogies of yours. I don’t think I entirely agree that Degen is about as much use as a trapdoor in a life boat, but reading it made me laugh out loud all the same!

Great Blog as usual Gerry Like you I have taken some time off more from a work perspective than anything else as I have been snowed under, despite the comments from the CBC that all we do is pick up our benefit checks. I kept up with some of the comments but did not have much to add.

From my perspective I don’t think there should be an issue with regards to the Europa cup. We must put out our strongest team, try and wrap it up as quickly as possible and then give the youngsters a run out.

It is still a competition and with all our players getting back to some type of fitness we should easily cope with the two competitions. Beating Juve or a similar team in the final will be a great occasion and better than losing in the Semi final of the CL in my book and a great spring board and confidence booster for next season. Saying that it will not be a walk in the park or a forgone conclusion to win it, there are some very good team in the competition.

For my money we are still in the pound seats for 4th and I will be very interested to see the situation after the next 3 games as City have a real tough schedule as do Spurs. Our run when we beat them on Sunday is relatively easier then our immediate competition. With all our players, especially the creative ones nearing fitness it could be a timely boost for our run in to finish on a high.

I would like to see a strong, creative line-up tonight with Gerrard, Aquilani, Reira and Agger in the line – up. I think Masch should start ahead of Lucas to give the others complete freedom to attack. It could be an opportunity to start Babel up front instead of Ngog because if they do sit back his striking ability outside the box could be a bonus, plus his extra strength and speed might help break them down. I would like to see Pacheco and El Zhar on the bench as well as Kelly at right back. After the rest the boys have had we should come out of the blocks firing and have more than enough in the tank for Sunday. I think Pepe should start as he is always instrumental in our counter attacks.

Wrapping it up would be a great idea, but lets not get ahead of ourselves, this team beat Rangers 4-1 at Ibrox. We will need our best 11 and the fans going to Anfield should expect it.
.
Anyway who’s to say their any worse than Wolves, Portsmouth or Fulham, these guy will want to nab a wounded lion.

I agree we should start with our best 11. If we win, that’ll give the team and the fans something to look forward to (the next round that is, don’t talk about winning it first). If we don’t go past this round, at least we’ve (hopefully) tried our best, and we just need to concentrate on the league.

I’m also tired of the constant knee jerk reactions after 1 bad result, and am hoping that the team will get together with the fans to go through this difficult season together

If the Reds finish outside the top 4, losing out to Cita, getting back in next season will be very very difficult.They will be able to attract better players and Mancini will have more prem experience.Finishing fourth and winning the play-off in August are all that matters.The europa cup winners should get a place in the CL qualifiers round 2.

This team beat angers and Sevilla in the Champions League. That tells me they are not shite. In fact we have lost to worse teams this season. I think we should put out a strong team because the last thing we want is to get beat, get slaughtered in the media, Rafa made to look like a wally and the players confidence to take another kick in the balls (Viera style).

I’d go with Reina in goal. Agger and Kyg at centre half. Aurellio and Kelly if they are fit. If Kelly isn’t sharp I’d play Carra at right back. Aquilani and Mash in the middle with Kuyt on the right and Riera on the left. Gerrard behind Ngog.

Lucas and Insua could do with a rest. And a word on Insua. I think he needs to lose some weight in the summer and forget the Hulk Hogan training plan he’s been on. The weight gain and extra muscle bulk has done him no favours. I watched some games from last season on LFC TV and he looked thinner and quicker than he is now. I reckon he has lost some athleticism. Quick, skilful wingers are having a field day against him. In one on one situations he looks like he is running in treacle. I wonder what you lads think?

I have to agree LB insua`s extra bulk ha s slowed him up somewhat.
I`ve no doubt he can go on to be a clas full back for us.I think Rafa see`s this problem too and the situation should be adressed in the summer.A rest tonight will do the lad good.

These are no mugs like some seem to think.Rafa will have done his homework on them.They`ll be right up for this and we the fans as well as the players need to have the same attitude going into the game.

Can any of you boy’s clear this up for me?.
Liverpool and Everton both in Europa cup, Liverpool have precedence for the kick off as they finished higher than the toffees, how come they played early (the toffees) tuesday evening thus giving them 3 days off till their next match, then we play tonight giving us two day’s off before we play city, the answer is obviously there but this old fucker cant see it.
Totally agree Aitch about not qualifying for the C/L would be a disaster, when was the last time Spurs,City,Villa or Birmingham qualified for it and they are spending money like it’s going out of fashion.
2-0 tonight for the boys, come on you mighty red men.
YNWA.

They`re bitter enough Redman let them have this one!!

I have to agree with BM,the winners of the Europa league should get a spot in the CL qualifying round.

I`m not just saying it now thatIt would add an ext we`re in it.It would add an extra incentive for teams in it.

WHA…?

To be truthful redman Spurs have spent money like it’s going out of fashion for years, where do they get their money from. As far as I know Daniel Levy isn’t mega loaded yet you never hear that spurs have money troubles. Or am I talking bull?

This should answer your question Kenny.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ENIC_Group

Timmy,
i know they are bitter mate as half of my family are (knobheads), but we had preference why have we picked thursday instead of tuesday.
KDL, i have always and will always look at Spurs as just a load of cockney spivs ever since Venables was there and all the gangsters that followed.

I actually had an argument with a spurs fan in work when he told me spurs had money to burn.I told him despite the wealth of this Lewis fella there`s no way they could sustain there spending each season the way they have been.
He`s a business man after all and a very successful one at that but he`ll need to start seeing a ruturn on his investment i.e champions league footy.

I hate Spurs. Their fans are so fickle. One said to me I hate Liverpool fans. Scousers with their victim mentality, thinking we’re the salt of the earth, starting running off on one about hillsborough. I nearly knocked him out. He went on about Heysel as well and I just ignored him. Our part in that was shameful but the Juve fans were no angels.

Spurs fans need to be careful what the say about Hysel Kenny.
Next time remind them that they were the first english football club to be banned from european competition because of hooliganism in 1974.

Kenny, I agree with you about Spurs fans and I’ve always found them to be among the most annoying and bitter supporters in the game, but perhaps that’s understandable.
When it comes to London clubs Arsenal and Chelsea are bigger then them and have achieved far more success. West Ham and Fulham are smaller then them so any relative success they’ve achieved over the years has garnered more respect.
So when you look at Spurs you see a club stuck in a kind of footballing purgatory, too big to be considered small but never quite big enough to be considered among the elite. I think a lot of the bitterness of their supporters stems from that.

Gerry,
can you throw any light about my question (22 + 27).

It’s down to TV, redman. Channel Five are creaming themselves now that Liverpool are in the competition and want to maximise their ratings.

Channel 5 will probably get their highest ever ratings tonight!

timmy, your question regarding Insua is a bit of a two-edged sword.

I think some people have been very short-sighted when rating this young lad.

I know you weren’t having a go at him, but the “he’s not good enough” brigade will use your words against him….
Watch him again… and look at everything he does right.

For every time a “quick winger” gets past him… the lad also puts in a run stopping tackle, frequently stripping the player of the ball, rather than just twatting it into the stands… and then actually running into space with the ball, looking for a pass, as opposed to simply nobbing it upfield!

Yes of course, the speed issue has to be addressed. But the bulking up was likely the first necessary step for him, (especially due to his shorter stature) so as to compete with the up-n-under boys he faces more frequently in the Prem.

If his development of the last 2 seasons is anything to go by (and of course there are no garuantees) and his game continues to progress in the same vein…this kid is gonna be a stellar left back for a long time to come!

Thank’s Gerry,
told you the answer was looking at me, it just did’nt register, by the way how did i end up here?.

The Reds finally won 1-0-the commentator said it took them 80 odd minutes to unlock the Unirea defence but if they were more accurate it could have been a lot earlier!

I agree Jack. No complaints and no excuses. Well done Rafa, you played your strongest 11 and went for it. Well done lads, played football not hoofball and never panicked, continued to try and prise open their defence despite time ticking away. Ok we lack cutting edge but its hard to cut through 11 men in an 18yd box but they kept trying and Rafas subs were positive and made the difference. Well done all around. No complaints and no excuses. Same again Sunday please.

I agree with Digger.

Same again Sunday please.

Well done. Now we know that the Romanian bus is made out of tank materials. Thank god we are able to put one against them.

Good win in the end. In the first minute, one would have thought the game would see us score lots of goals. I am glad the players did not start to panic like I did. And the away goals in Romania will open up the game hopefully.

One irony was the extra game officials behind the goalposts. Apart from watching them do nothing much, I do wonder what is their role or function if, in one instance at least, one of them totally missed the tackle on Kuyt just outside the box which completely missed the ball. And it was not even a corner that was given by the ref.

It was a good win, I think they had one shot off target all night. The return leg will be more open as they need to score and I can see us getting an away goal. Overall a decent performance against a well organized defense.

Thought Reira struggled with sharpness, but he has been out a long time. Babbel looked good given time and space he does not get in the Prem. With Gerrard dropping back into the midfield his raking passes helped create space. More than anything I think Gerrard misses Torres to play off of when he is in that advanced role. The team looked more balance when he dropped back.

I am also glad Pacheco got on, he had a few nice touches and his header was intelligent. Ngog reads a game well and creates space for himself I think he has a good future ahead of him, despite people wanting to write a 20 year old off already. His turn and shot has a great move.

Overall no complaints expect the missed chances and on another day Gerrard could have bagged himself a few, however he is starting to look sharp.

from the start you could tell it was going to be a long night, one of those games where the other team parks the bus in front of their goal, station 11 men in their own half, and do f*ck all but defend hard. our boys got their job cut out for them, chiselling and hacking away, until finally there is breakthrough. at this point in the season, the lads know they can’t afford to lose interest, and stoically kept at the job, toiling until they grind out a result. pacheco and babel gave the game new dimension, forcing unirea to deal with these new threats, after having kept riera and aqualani at bay most of the game. it would be good to see more of them in games, especially pacheco.

to those who wrote the game off as a borefest, it was because of unirea’s game plan that made it so. the lads played passing football, and not hoofball like digger said, something we have seen creeping back into our game. on nights like this, degen might have had a good game bombing forward and there was hardly any need for him to track back to defend when there is hardly any attack from the romanians. imagine if we had glenda there. as for the midfield, i felt like i missed lucas there, who is more robust than aqualani and lately too have been effective in threading passes into enemy territory.

after all has been said and done, we have a goal to take with us to bulgaria, so we are on the right track. job done, first half. onward reds.

It’s nil-nil for the second leg in Romania then cos we are going to lose N’gog’s goal in Bulgaria. Only joking dude.
I personally thought it was dire last night. We completely lack imagination in how to break these teams down and its too easy for them. They hadn’t even played simce last year.

Keith, not being a smart arse but the reason Riera was lacking sharpness is his manager. The lad came back from injury and outstanding for 3 games; motm against spuds, our best player again vs wolves and had another excellent game against Bolton before being unceremoniously dropped for no discernable reason, as is Rafas wont, in favour of the anonymous Maxi. The lad was in sparkling form before more inexplicable unnecessary confidence stripping from our manager. Sorry mate, just had to point that out.

Shit I forgot that you are best friends with Big Jan Dig and get all the inside info, so the rumors that he was carrying a knock are not true and you have seen footage of him training where he was running rings around everyone and Rafa out of spite, because he wants to loose, kept him out of the squad for no valid reason other than Maxi gives better head.

The this you pick up in the big apple amazes me.

things sorry before BM points it out

Is it me or has anyone else not noticed Riera being outstanding. I actually like him cos he gives us an outlet which others dont but he’s been pretty ordinary of late in my opinion.

I was wondering why on earth Riera wasn’t getting in the side myself. I don’t remember anyone saying he was injured again. Just saw him sitting on the bench.

Anyway Man City on Sunday and my money is on a 0-0.

Babel and Pacheco desrve a start on Sunday.Aqui and Riera were very disappointing.Why didn’t Kuyt play up front?.A hard fought 1-0 to the Reds (Gerrard 34).

Aw c’mon Keith. Your better than that mate. Look, I know you werent having a go at the lad but I just thought I’d point out why he’s not quite as sharp as a few games ago. I said I wasnt being a smart arse and meant it. Anyway, as for how I get my info all the way over here in isolated New York? Well, we have phones now, t.v’s too, that carry sports channels, I can get any Irish or British paper albeit a day late, and we have the internet now too upon which not one site carried news of a Riera injury.

LB its clear why Riera was on the bench. Rafa wants to f*ck him over. Really destroy the lads confidece. Make him hate football. Default on his mortgage. Live a life of crime in the shady neighbourhood of Raval in Barcelona. Visit 5 euro whores after his wife leaves him. And if all goes according to Rafas plan, and this is a big if, have him die on the streets a lonely man who all but wanted to play football.

Whats not clear about having Riera on the bench?
We’ll nick it on Sunday.

YNWA

And heres the proof of what I just wrote. Just listen to the lad – his confidence has been stripped by Rafa!

ttp://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11661_59173
34,00.html

YNWA

Digger maybe just maybe Rafa wants both Maxi and Riera sharp and firing on all cylinders just in case we get an injury. He’s got to make sure all the squad is fit and fresh as possible. Oh yes and we won the game.

I read that too Bhavster, I worry Riera will put in a transfer request for the way Rafa has treated him.

Kenny I’m aware we won the game mate, look at post 38. I’m not looking for argument, I’m just inserting some perspective on why Riera was lacking sharpness last night. As for your suggestion Rafas trying to keep them both fit, really? I think Rieras and Aquilanis rustiness last night knocks that theory on the head no? Surely the argument to play those who are fit and in form outweighs that of lets drop em to give an out of form unfit guy a game to make sure he’s fresh? Makes no sense to me Ken.

Dig mate i beg to differ – I dont see any perpective from you, just another cheap shot at the manager –

“The lad was in sparkling form before more inexplicable unnecessary confidence stripping from our manager”

and then you cry foul when some people here say that you keep taking these shots at any given opportunity.

I dont agree it was a cheap shot from Digger. Show me a media report suggesting Riera had a knock and was at risk. I’m not saying he didn’t have a knock but I can it be proved? If not then Dig’s comment has some legitimacy.

There has been a number of players that have failed to get a run of games where a few of us have been a tad confused as to the reasons why. Ryan Babel being a prime example in his first 2 seasons. Certain his first 18 months where he’d have a couple of good games and then not be seen for a month.

I think it not too odd to be a tad frustrated when we see Riera come back from injury and look good in 3 games and then be sat on bench for the next 3.

My own theory is that Rafa is a manager that will look at fitness stats and talk to fitness specialists rather than just concentrate on the player’s form. Maybe he thought Riera had played 3 games in a week after being out injured for a long time so needed a rest even though he was playing very well. That’s my theory.

I also think that Rafa has a tendancy to try and over manager a player’s fitness. Sometimes you just gotta let the player play. Gerrard and Torres – their fitness management hasn’t exactly gone according to plan.

Maybe we should hire Roger Federer’s physio because I don’t think that guy has ever been injured.

Nah Bhav no cheap shot. I’ve seen it time and time again from Rafa. Keane, Babel, Benny, Aquilani and now Riera. Players in good form, playing well, on a good 3/4 game run, confidence sky high and bang…..bench for a few games. Its extremely frustrating for the supporters, what must it be like for the player? No cheap shop mate, just a genuine point I felt needed to be made in light of Rieras rustiness last night.

LB I have no problem with your theory – right or wrong. But to say this is “more inexplicable unnecessary confidence stripping” is as cheap a shot as they come. This implies that this has been done time and time again with other players. Imnplies that Rafa didnt even consider the stats you mention and just did it on a whim. Implies that Riera’s confidence indeed took a hit which resulted in his performance yesterday.
Mate if rafa had to justify each players inclusion, benching, substitution for every game so that every ‘fan’ could understand it – he would go mad. Not that it would make a difference as the arm chair experts would still think they know better. And Dig would have been happy (dont think so but still) that Riera played but BM would be complaing that Maxi is not being given a chance. Hope you get the drift.

And injuries to torres and gerrard – i know you know more injury examples from other teams as well so will leave it at that.

Boy it must suck being Rafa.
YNWA

Bhav, Rafa is compensated with a £20m contract over 5 years. Its not ALL bad.

rotation, boys, it’s back to rotation again. that’s the boss’s modus operandi. keep them fresh and hungry. downside is, it does their head in. wait till benayoun is back, there’ll be more rotating to do. lucas sure-starter has lost his place. who knows, kuyt next? nah.

but he’s balding. and getting fat. thats what i meant.

Thought the media was being harsh in their evaluation of last nights performance (surprise!). Sure, not a glittering feast of football but the team showed composure and determination, created some chances and in the end got a winning goal. We were very slow and therefore they had plenty of time to line up their 11 man defense each time we came a calling.

Riera faded gradually, thought he started ok – Same goes for Aquilani. Babel really made a difference, despite having a low success rate from his runs at defenders he is a valuable player to have against such a defensive team. His tendency to take on too much and paint himself into a corner is frustrating to say the least.
Great to see Pacheco get some minutes and I’m happy for Ngog to get the goal.

Hope we can add some flare to the composure for Sunday, here’s to a 2-1 win to Liverpool – courtesy of goals from Kuyt and Ngog!

I have a question. Good win first of all. Should have had a few more but all good. Aquilani is supposed to be a player who plays behind the striker, yet he played in the Alonso role, which is good enough but how effective is he from there? Once he went off and Pacheco came on, Gerrard went back where he sprayed the ball nicely, came up front on occassion and took a shot. Will Aqua ever play in the position we saw Pacheco play when he came on?

Jesus lads, standards have dropped to new lows if we consider last night a ” good ” win. The Romanian lads hadn’t played a competiive game since Decmember, lost their manager and some of their best players and it takes a goal with 9 mins to spare to win it!

It was a win, and should be enough to see us through – but we can forget about winning this competition if we’re not able to break down bog standard opposition like this. Last night’s performance mirrors so many others this season – no real improvment in sight

The only improvement Arthur is the fact we are at least difficult to beat now. Not conceding daft goals in every bloody game. However our style of play at the moment aint Brazil 1982. At the moment it more reminds me of England under Graham Taylor.

I’ll give ya that LB – but still….Jesus what a season this has been. What did us Liverpool fans do during the summer to deserve this??

Arthur, we got all cocky thinking we’d walk the Prem this year.
That’s what “us Liverpool fans (did) during the summer to deserve this??”

We won’t be Brazil 1982 from now until May… and probably not next season, or the season after that… (though I believe it’ll impprove) unless Rafa (or any given replacement) is handed half-a-billion to buy a team full of superstars.

Hard-fought wins are the order of the day.

As for players returning from injury, having 2-3 good performances and then being “stripped of their confidence” all I can say is that having returned from injury a few times myself through the years… game 4 and 5 is about the time you feel the lack of fitness from not having played for a while.

Then again, I don’t have the personal insight into Riera’s state of mind that some people seem to and my experience might very well be the anomalie as opposed to the norm?

What time is the kick-off here in the UK on sunday boys.

1500 hours

“We won’t be Brazil 1982 from now until May… and probably not next season, or the season after that… (though I believe it’ll impprove) unless Rafa (or any given replacement) is handed half-a-billion to buy a team full of superstars”

dont be so pesimistic man what happened to hope in your heart, you have to believe next season will be better even rochdale fans think like that its what brings us all back in august like the grinning fools we are no.

Nice to see that small club are not rolling over for man utd.

Heh heh! Who said the Toffs would roll over for the mancs?!

Thank’s DJ,
Well done the little club three fuckin good goals not a fluke or OG amongst them and lets face it the mancs where always second best.
Well thats my praise for the blueshite for another season.
YNWA.

How scared was the tone of the guy interviewing slur alec after the game. Good start to the weekend. Let’s hope it keeps going.
YNWA

the prem is there for the taking this season. 82 points shoulda do it.

Boo hoo wot ya gonna do the tiny little everton went and spanked man u.
They cried and yapped at every little call but they were never gonna score coz they couldn’t get the ball.
Fergie was at his best shouting and doing a little dance but when the final whistle went the shit was running down his pants.

Funny season this,watchin them fucks lose always gives me bit of a giggle:)

I’m with you Roarin, guess I’m just a simple soul but I just love it when the bastards loose!
Woke up late and the final result greeted me as I opened the computer – what a great start to the weekend

guinnessdrinker… there’s nothing pessimistic about that statement (#69)… hell, you even included the part where I said we would improve.

Read it again.
What I said was, we won’t be playing Brazil 1982 calibre football. To expect us to do so is unrealistic, even if everyone was fit and on fire… let alone having had the season we’ve had so far.

And given the lack of funds, the sell to buy policy, ownership uncertainty, the constant, incessant media witchhunt adding un-needed pressure, the World Cup which will give few players a good rest in the summer… I just don’t expect us to be setting the world on fire.

I’m not suggesting for a minute we aren’t capable of it… just the opposite in fact… and it is extremely unlikely we’ll start next season with the string of injuries we started this season with… but we need to temper our desires and expectations, with at least some realism.

I believe we’ll make a much stronger showing next season.. but I’m not expecting us to suddenly start playing like Brazil 82.

I’d love nothing better than to see our current players going out there and playing like the team of 86, or 89… but I understand we are (as an organization not just a team,) in a different position and playing on a different landscape than in those days.

We need to try to remember to keep things in context… a United fan typed the following comment into one of the match reports this morning after their defeat to Everton.

“We probably won’t win the Prem this year, and maybe we don’t deserve to. Any team that loses 6 games doesn’t deserve to win it.”

REALLY?
Any team that loses 6 games doesn’t deserve to win a 38 game competition????
Talk about unrealistic expectations.

The last few seasons are not (or at least should not be) the NORM, they are the anomalie.

The Prem likes to tout itself as the best league in the world… but really…
is it?
… if the same 4 teams, take the top 4 spots…
…uncontested…
… every season?

I would argue it can only make that claim if surprise results can happen regularly… and regularly being the operative word there!

Who would have predicted Everton beating Scum 3-1 today?
THAT… those kinds of results… is what will make the Prem the best league in the world.

I watched the first half of Everton against the mancs and went out at half time. Came back in and got a lovely surprise when I saw the score.

This one is for Aitch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZxvYy5-ekI

Its groovy stuff innit LB?
But if you gave me a choice of watching Brazil 82 or LFC 89… I know which one I’d pick… hands down!

(then again, like I said, I’m a Liverpool fan before I’m a football fan, so I’m a bit biased… but for the great names in that Brazil side, I’ll see ‘em and raise ‘em, McMahon, Houghton, Beardsley, Barnes, Aldridge… fuckin ‘ell, I’ve just soiled meself…)

Anyway, here’s to beating big-money Citeh tomorrow!

I like the Riera debate, so thought I might throw my piece in. Riera was frustrating and lost the ball quiet a bit, but thats becaused besides Carra, he was our only player pushing forward trying to beat players, the rest of the game was dire shuffle work, side to side, no penetration.
.
It was only a stroke of luck Babel looked good because SG went back deeper into the midfield. Riera is our best winger and SG is our best CM, Aqualani in my opinion should play between SG, Masch and the front line. He’s a genuine ball player with good skills, forcing him to play a constant sideways game is wasting his talent.
.
SG turned that game around once dropped back 15 yards. Riera’s game would have turned dramatically once SG dropped back.

Hello all,

Didn’t get to see the game on Thursday – by all accounts a scrappy win – but fuck it I’ll take it, thank you very much.

Would have to agree with Gaz – I think Gerrard should drop back into midfield when Torres isnt playing – doesn’t seem to have the same link up with Ngog or Kuyt. When he dropped back against Arsenal we looked alot more threatening and apparantly the same happened against Urinea.

For todays game I expect we will do the same as we did against Arsenal – try to stop them playing with a high tempo game lets just hope the result is better but I would fancy us to nick something from this one

Probably the most important game of the saeson so far. A loss will really hurt.

If I were picking the squad I’d go with

Reina
Carra, skirtel, agger, Aurelio
Masch Lucas
Kuyt Stevie Riera
Ngog

With babel as the super sub. He seems to be playing a bit better in the last couple of outings.
Tough choice between lucas and aquaman as well.
The other possibility if yossi is fit is play him behind ngog and drop gerrard back a bit and put lucas on the bench.
The team would look so much better with torres, or any half decent striker.

Reds in Aus,
to me it was the same old, same old concerning Babel, he put a decent cross in for Pacheco against Unirea but every other time it was head down and run into defenders and more often than not losing the ball, he’s infuriating at times even Bolo Zenden beat his man a few time’s.
YNWA.

I hear you, he is probably the most frustrating player to watch. But he can spread the backline (particularly playing on the right side) due to his speed. The problem IMHO is when playing on the left he is always trying to cut back in to get on his much preferred right foot, and subsequently runs into the defender who is lagging behind. On the right at least he can go around the defender with his speed. Kuyt could move into the strikers role (for ngog) and babel comes into the right wing spot which I think suits him best.

Just another possiblity – especially as Man city have big tough defenders lescott and toure who will push ngog around.

Still unsure of who I prefer out of insua and aurelio, I have a feeling the gaffer will go with insua as we are playing away.

Guys,

The lineup:
Reina,
Carragher, Skrtel, Agger, Insua,
Kuyt, Lucas, Mascherano, Maxi,
Gerrard, Babel.

Subs: Cavalieri, Torres, Benayoun, Aquilani, Riera, Aurelio, Kelly.

Interesting one with Babel starting, and Ngog not even on the bench. And yes, welcome back, Torres and Benayoun!

Today’s lineup:

Liverpool: Reina, Carragher, Skrtel, Agger, Insua, Kuyt, Lucas, Mascherano, Maxi, Gerrard, Babel. Subs: Cavalieri, Torres, Benayoun, Aquilani, Riera, Aurelio, Kelly.

Good to hear Torres and Benayoun are back.

What a stamp on Barry by Monster…

With a yellow card, he should have been more careful

Conclusion: The referee is a Dick…. and a big one as well

So many dubious decisions.

NOT ALL IS LOST, THERE’S STILL PLENTY OF STRAW TO CLUTCH ON!

Despite the horrendous refereeing (though it may be better compared to what we’ve suffered all season so far):

1. We remain undefeated – VERY IMPORTANT in rebuilding the wobbly confidence caused by Fellatio framing Hercules as well as the gutting Arsenal result.

2. Despite having a game in hand, Man City’s very next game is against the Chavs. And if they couldn’t score against us with our form this season, then I do not for a moment believe they can score against the Chavs, especially when they’re visiting Stamford Bridge. Not to mention they then play Spurs.

3. Hercules will return from his WRONGFUL SUSPENSION for the next game against Blackburn, hopefully bringing back some stability at the back. Not to mention Torres, Benny Onion (and hopefully Johnson) will be slowly returning to full fitness.

4. For the 3 games before the Scum game on 21st March, we will have TWO HOME GAMES.

If all goes to plan and we take at least 7 points out of 9 before the Scum game, City will cease to be a threat.

The main concern will now be Villa, who has overtaken City as well. But they have yet to play the Chavs and City. The League Cup final may also take its toll on them.

And finally, both Villa and City also have an exhausting FA Cup run to distract them (both have to replay their Round 5 games this midweek).

Keep the faith.

Again lacking some much needed creativity. Things like insuna and gerrard running into each other is so frustrating. Though that was possibly some of the worst refereeing I’ve seen. What a fucking idiot every time the crowd moaned he blew his whistle,typical mancs though can boo louder than they cheer. Away to ice my back got cleaned out a few times at footy and think i need a break anyway.

Please me prediction in post #49. I have watched a few Man City games lately and with our recent lack of creativity I just knew chances would be few and far between. Midfield battle – bore draw.

Well when you wake up at 2.00am to watch a game with stats like this, shots on target, City-1, LFC-2, you start to wonder what happened to our team.
.
Last season, draws cost us the title, this season there the only thing keeping us in the hunt.
.
I don’t mind losing, I don’t mind drawing but I detest watching my team with a real lack of ambition. We are a tackling, grinding possession hugging squad.
.
Kinny if anything our defence was our highlight last night, they were very strong, at there hoofing the ball best. Agger was ordinary, must have had a tenner on city to win.
.
Luca was our most create player, and was a full head above everyone in the passing accuracy stakes.
.
Sadly I think my team is just going through the motions, waiting for the season to end.

were lacking any creativity whatsoever we just need a little spark to let the team start enjoying playing ball again i reckon start little dani throw the shackles off and play the game again stop worrying about making mistakes.

in fairness a good point – but Goddamn it was so ugly..Ill allow it to pass this season but wont want to see this style next year. I agree with Guiness – we should definitely be throwing young Dani in more often

5 away league goals in 5 months. Just read that stat on the main site.

12 goals in 14 away games is a poor return.We will need 70 points + to make fourth.Have to finish this season with the same points return from the last 11 games as last season to make it.Aurelio would of been worth a try down the left.

An awful match to watch but if any team lacked ambition it was Citeh. They were at home and had 10 men behind the ball for nearly the entire match.

In fact Mancini basically said that he went out for a draw. A mistake IMHO, since a win for them and they were nearly out of site.

Hopefully with Torres and Yossi back we can average more than 1 away goal per month – what an incredible stat that is!

fact is were 6th now if villa win there game in hand we’ll be 7th with 11 games to go!!!! we’ll have to go on some run to get out of this mess our only hope is that nando can ply in ALL those games otherwise this could be the end of the road.

A long read but worth it.

http://tomkinstimes.com/2010/02/lucky-rafa/

A point at the middleastlands isn`t a bad result.Although looking back if we went for it more we might have had them.
The thing is i`ve hindsight on my side when i say that.We have to look at the bigger picture here.We`ve seemed to sorted ourselves out defensively.Thats a plus.It`s a foundation to build on.Yesterdays performance was build on a solid defense.The thing is city had the same mindset,don`t lose.
I can sort of understand Rafa and the players making sure we first don`t lose the game.Looking at it we had a lot more to lose yesterday than they did as a loss for us would have given us a lot more to do.A point keeps us right in it and with eleven games to go.

With eleven games to go last season we put together the most impressive finish to the season from a red team since the glory days of the 80`s but it won`t hapen this time.And despite some genius in here forecasting we`ll need to do same to make top four we won`t.We`ll have to scrap for every point we can get from now to the end.
There`s four teams in the mix at the moment.In two weeks time there could be five for 2 spots or three for one spot.

Its just the way the season is panning out so hang on to your seats boys were going on a rollercoaster.

A lot of comments on the fact that we are 6th, with the potential of being lower after Citeh, Villa etc have played their games in hand. So the question is: Can we have a sustained run of form (form as in scoring goals – not form as in the Reds losing once in the last several games) over the next 11 games, similar to last season after we spanked Real Madrid?
Of course we can. We just need that one game that sparks us off, and with Torres & Benny back – in fact, almost a full squad after Magic is fit in a week or 2 – there is nor real reason why we can’t score 2-4 goals a game! To me, Gerrard looks like he is getting a bit more creative & purposeful, the defensive is sound, Monster (if he watches his tackles) is at his best. So we need that creativity. We need those ‘through-balls’ to get through. We need those ‘one-touch’ passes to raech the intended recipient. All it takes is one game, where this happens & everything clicks. I know, time is running out, but with Stevie, Benny, Riera, Aquaman, Johnson etc, we have those players to feed a Torres that will (hopefully) stay fully fit for the rest of the season.
Bring it (that one particular game) on! Let’s hope we stick 5 past Fat Sam & his Rovers.
YNWA

Thats a good read as always Lurgan.

Rafalution,i don`t think we can mirror the last elevem games of last season but we can definately do enough to get into the top four.
With the return of benny,torres and soon to have johnson we will look a lot better in attack.

Timmy, hang onto our seats? Rollercoster? I’ve been nodding off and struggling to stay awake watching most of these matches mate. Are we ever going to see some decent football? That’s my question. How many training sessions does it take to be able to string some passes together and create a couple of good chances? The defending has improved no doubt. But most of these guys are full internationals. What the fuck are they doing at Melwood? I don’t agree you need to spend half a billion quid on players to play decent footy. It’s almost March and our football is painful to watch most of the time. 5 away goals in 5 months is relegation goalscoring form. How many goals did we manage to get in the CL? The Europa campaign didn’t start much differently.

How many times must we watch Dirk Kuyt alone up front? Might as well not even bother with a striker. Who are we fooling? Formation 4-6-0 as far as I’m concerned. One guy with genuine pace in the entire side and he couldn’t trap a bag of cement. Right now we couldn’t create a ham sandwich with a loaf of bread and a roasted pig. Our midfield couldn’t open a cardboard door. Our fullbacks couldn’t put a cross on a pools coupon. Away from home the opposition might as well play 11 outfield players and not bother with a goalie.

Benny, Torres, Johnson, Aquilani… by the time these are at their best it will be World Cup time. I’m done talking about Stevie G this season. He’s been shite.

Hey London Barnes is this your dummy that you’ve spat out that I just found on the floor?

This season is very frustrating indeed. Rather than Rafa it’s players who have done my head in.
players who should don’t step up to the plate when we need them to. Fabio Aurelio for example – supposedly a sweet striker of the ball – yes he strikes as sweetly as anyone I’ve seen into a defensive wall.

I think as regards Stevie G – it’s injuries which have done him this season.

I agree with ya LB (again it seems). We have had our so called “best 11″ on a number of occasions this year (albeit not very often) and have still produced this turgid, negative football. (Spurs, Chelsea, Fiorentina to name but a few). Like I have said on many occasions here – we have only played attractive, attack minded football once under Benitez, and that was our do or die stuff at the tail end of last year. We had not seen it any time before and we haven’t seen it since.

The only match I have enjoyed (in terms of our performance, style and attitude) was our well deserved victory over Utd in October..that’s not good enough

You know its worrying/sad that I wasn’t even remotely surprised that we left our 20million player Aquilani on the bench again yesterday. I’m beginning to wonert what oppostion is he ABLE TO FACE?

I was peeved our £24 million player Torres was on the bench. Rafa needs a reality check.

Kenny – we all know why Torres was bench…but how many times has Aquilani actually started this season – he’s been fit now since December

that should read “on the bench” – I know how some people go mad about bad spellin and ting

Next 3 fixtures for ourselves and our rivals.

Liverpool fc…Blackburn(H),wigan(A),portsmouth(H)

Manchester city…Chelsae(A,Spurs(H,Sunderland(A)

Aston villa…Hull(A),Manure(H,sunderland(H)

Tottenham…Everton(H),Man city(A),Blackburn(H)

There you go some tricky fixtures and points will be dropped all round.

Our next three fixtures don`t look too bad in comparison to the other three especially city and spurs so hopefully we can gain some advantage.

LB when i said it was going to be a rollercoaster i meant results wise.Yes i entirely agree we`ve been poor to watch lately.I also understand the reasons why.The players are obviuosly reluctant to open up too much and its resulting in our poor play going forward.The passing isn`t fast,its all very laboured.All safe passes nobody`sd taking chances.Against a side like city who can hurt us on the break i`m not surprised we played like that.Safe.

All i was saying is,going on the way the season has panned out so far its going to be a rocky road to the end.

As I said above I think that Citeh missed a trick yesterday. Seeing their up and coming fixtures (thanks TT) it looks even more so.

A good point all in all for the reds but it will be worth nothing if we don’t do ourselves justice against Blckburn, Wigan and Portsmouth. No time for sitting back against these fellas. If we put out our best XI and have an attacking mentality, not gung-ho, we should get maximum points.

BTW, TT and Ged the long-awaited print should arrive chez moi tomorrow. Will keep you informed.

Timmy, I wasn’t having a go. I knew what you meant but I felt like having a rant. Nice one for finding my dummy Kenny.

But in all seriousness we played the same way away to Wolves and also away to Pompey and also Sunderland. We seem to approach away games in the same way that Bolton do when they go to Old Trafford regardless of who we play. I thought we would kick on after we beat Spurs at Anfield but performance wise we didn’t really. I thought we would gain confidence in our general play after beating Everton in a very difficult game with 10 men. Again the football remains poor.

These players are afforded too many excuses. Do nothing but train every day and play a match once or twice a week. It’s all they have been doing since they were kids yet they can’t head a ball on target from 6 yards or find a teammate in the attacking 3rd of the field. Recently they can only play with any purpose when the Anfield roar is behind them. Away from home is where character has to be shown and quite frankly in an attacking sense we’ve been pathetic.

My prediction is that we’ll take 7 points from the next 3 games. We should have enough to beat Blackburn. The Wigan pitch looks like you could plant potatoes on it. That will be 0-0. Portsmouth at home – if we can’t win that we don’t deserve to be in the CL next season.

No problem there LB pal i can see your concerns.We must take 9 from 9 to put us in a nice position.

Wigans pitch is a disgrace that would be shocking in the old daYS.

Nothing really to add except; Amen LB and the most accurate description of yesterday that I’ve read is ‘what did we expect from a game with an Italian manager and a wannabe Italian manager?’. Indeed.

So, Digger, does this mean that Rafa just lost his way in the 2nd half of last season, with his exciting, attacking football that everyone was so happy to see?

Moreover, at the start of the season, IMHO, we were too attacking, the balance was not right and we were letting in too many soft goals. At this time a lot of people were saying that we needed to go back to basics, which duly happened.

Now it is shit on a stick football and a lot of people are shouting for a more expansive game, even though our attacking players are not fully fit or just back from injury.

Not having a go at you Digger but sometimes I am not sure what people want here.

Consdiering the circumstance, is a point at Citeh not a decent result?

Lurgan, I am not expecting Hungary 1954 type football. At the beginning of the season we were letting in goals like water. We did have a lot of injuries across the back so thats fair enough. But the balance of attack and defence is what being a successful team is all about. As I said I aint expecting 7-0 every week. But I do expect the opposition keeper to at least have to get his kit dirty against us.

No problem Lurgan. I’m just saying I agree with the writer is all mate. If Rafa went to Juve in the summer (the inventors of cattenacio, Rafas beloved style) I believe he’d be a massive success and extremely successful there. His defensive, cautious, controlling style makes him a natural fit and superbly adapted for Serie A. If he went to Madrid on the other hand…..he’d be a sacked within 6mths says this observer. 1 season tops. I know you probably disagree but there you go. Just my opinion is all.

Just for a bit of fun here are Hungary’s results in 1954….

Egypt 0-3 Hungary
Austria 0-1 Hungary
Hungary 7-1 England
Hungary 9-0 South Korea
Hungary 8-3 West Germany
Hungary 4-2 Brazil
Hungary 4-2 Uruguay
West Germany 3-2 Hungary

LB, I think that Rafa tried to be more expansive at the start of this season and did not get the balance correct between defence and attack.

Then we had a defensive injury crisis and, correctly IMHO, he decided to go for it and place his bets on attacking i.e. we would score more than the opposition with Gerrard and Torres and playing a high-line.

Then these two bollocks get injured on international duty and Rafa tries to continue in the same vein. Then with repeated injuries to his influential creative/forward players he is forced back to basics and that is what we see now.

To be honest this season is a complete anomoly or fuck-up if you will. I have never seen this type of shite ever before, so I have nothing to gauge what will happen.

However I do know that to go gung-ho against the Arse or Citeh would have been madness. I know that this will not explain the current lack of shots on goal but at the end of Houllier’s reign that’s all he barked on about i.e. we had more shots than them, even though they were all from 60 yards out. I don’t ever want to see that again!

So what is the answer. IMHO we have to leave it to the man who knows best and see where we end up at the end of the season.

Hopefully we might even be able to get rid of the yanks if it all turns pete tong!

Digger, I would say that Rafa’s style is not that of Juve’s.

Moreover, I would say that his preferred style is that of what we have seen in the 2nd half of last season.

Pass and move, with players continually alternating position, just like his old Valencia team that demolished us at Anfield several years ago.

If Rafa was such a negative coach why else would he have wanted to buy Alves, Walcott, Ramsey, Johnson, Samao etc…

Finally, you are probably correct that Rafa would not last more than a season at Real Madrid but the place is a mad-house. Del Bosque lost his job after winning a league title (or more) and a CL in his tenure.

I dont think it has anything to do with it being a madhouse bud. I think his style of play is anathema to Madrid. Fair enough we disagree, I knew we would but sure at least we’re not abusing one another! I think those 2mths at the end of last season are destined to become as legendary as Lucas’ through ball on Tyneside last December!! Pity about the boro’s, stokes, fulhams, hulls before the madrids and utds eh? Could have been a legendary season…..except for real like.

Fair enough Digger, but RM is a mad-house, so the normal rules do not apply.

LFC wise, I know that you are not the biggest Rafa fan, and that’s fine with me, but do you think that if Rafa was given a bit of dosh (e.g. 50 million, much less than a typical Citeh budget), he could build on the current squad to win the league?

Okay, this thread just officially went into “batshit” territory!

And LB… GOALPOSTS!
For Fuck Sake Man first Brazil and now Hungary 54???

Frankly I’d like to see us being Chelsea 2007… winning the Prem by 247 deflected goals.

Now THAT is something we could aspire to

Actually Digger, Rafa’s preferred style is the AC Milan team of the 80′s, yes that bunch of cloggers who couldn’t string 2 passes together and tried to bore the other team to sleep. To be truthful the majority of our football has been atrocious but to say that is his preferred style is a nonsense.

Fat Sam where ever he goes be it Bolton, Newcastle, Blackburn it’s the same style of play he introduces. So it would be fair to say the long ball into the corners, be first to the second ball, play the precentages is his preferred style of play.

Now is that the case wherever Rafa has been? Well I don’t know how he set Tenerife up to play but what I do know is that the Valencia team played some exquisite football, so no I don’t think this is his preferred style of play.

I think it’s similar to King Kenny went to Newcastle, they were playing open expansive football but shipping goals left, right and center. so what did King Kenny do? He decided he had to make them hard to beat, so that’s what he set about doing and they were. How did the adoring Newcastle fans react? We want him out, this is not the football we want to watch! So King Kenny was sacked. Now was that the preffered style of football of King Kenny? Well based on his Liverpool teams and the team he put together at Blackburn I think we can say no!

Now Rafa has been at Liverpool a long time but the team he has put together is a long process of upgrading stop gaps. Suddenly he got to a certain stage where he could add quality to the team but we became a sell to buy club this season. So yes we have Glen Johnson but we had to sell Arbeloa. We bought Aquilani but we sold Alonso.

Even Shanks built from the back and through the middle. Ron Yeats, St John being a case in point.
Rafa could send his team out to play expansive football. Burnley do that but get absolutley no where and will probably go down. Now I know we won’t go down but would we get Champions league football playing that way? I don’t know, but what I do know is that Spurs and Man City have a (on paper) better forward line, well more options up front shall we say because if Stevie G and El Nino are injured then that’s pretty much it.

Rafa had a time scale when he got to Liverpool. I think I read in Guillem Balague’s book his plan was to in year 1 sort out the defence, year 2 the midfield and finally the attack. However the size of the task facing him was much bigger than he thought and to add to that the last two seasons he’s had to generate his own money and now scrape around for free transfers which he can’t be guaranteed to have.

It’s like saying to a builder. I want you to build me a beautiful mansion but you have to do it with half the budget for the materials the rest you will have to find wherever you can. Not an easy job even for a master craftsman.

oh and Digger Madrid is a madhouse. Del Bosque got the sack because he won the league one season but didn’t bring home the champions league in the same season and Capello got the sack twice both after winning the league.

Fuck why bother with all the shit that is being spouted. City are unbeaten at home and played like the away team hoping for a draw, yet our faithful supporters get on Rafa’s back. Go figure.

I don’t know if Rafa will ever do it but I don’t know who could if we got rid of him and they had to deal with the same circumstances.

Mourinho – Take away the fact he is an arrogant git, he is an excellent manager but he can’t do it on a shoestring. He won the league but he didn’t manage to get what the chav’s wanted and that was the champions league. Did they play great football? Not for my money, it wasn’t terrible but it wasn’t great. Half those buys weren’t even his.

Fergie? Defo needs to spend a shedload or have his nearest rival leave. Ie; Maureen had knocked him off his effing perch and he only got back on because the chavs sacked maureen and replaced him with Avram Grant.

He only got on the perch the first time round because King Kenny left and was replaced by Souness.

Of course he might Lurgan but I doubt he will. I believe no matter how much money he gets he’ll always be building. Its always something else with him. Its like no matter who he adds he always needs someone else. We’re always that mythical 1 or 2 players away. At some point we have to say ‘well its been 6yrs now and we’re STILL televised nyquil’. How did Reading and Pompey beat us? Cos they’ve more money? Big clubs have blips in there season not season long blips. At what point do we question Rafa?

Some good points there Kenny and whilst I certainly agree circumstances arent ideal for Rafa I just cant write off some of the utter muck we’ve seen this season as a lack of funds. As I said above how does that explain the wolves, pompey, reading, sunderland or blackburn games this yr? The hull, stoke, wigan, fulham boro games last yr? Money is just to simplistic and simply inaccurate to explain away the mediocrity we see time and time again imo Ken. Im on me phone, I’ll flesh out my points later mate.

I suppose Digger at this late stage of the season the time for questions will be in May. As I have been banging on all season – we’ve had problems even when we haven’t had injuries and although I certainly wasn’t expecting us to stroll to the title (far from it considering we lost Alonso and essentially signed a player to replace him who wouldn’t be fit until January) but I did assume that we would:

1) still be in CL after Christmas
2) Not be in a battle to the death just to finish 4th
3) Not be beaten at home by Reading in the F.A Cup

and so on and so on..

On the injuries – well we’re now only missing Johnson – so surely we can’t hide behind any more excuses for one dimensional negative tactics away from home..oh wait – we’ll have to wait for those injured players to be “match fit”…oh yea.. and so on and so on…

something badly went wrong this season and it ain’t just injuries and Yank ownwers that are to blame..

One thing: do people reckon the Yanks put a clause in Rafa’s new contract stating they expected a 4th place finish at least?

Aitch,

Chelsea 2005 were incredible, most consistent side I have seen. Would be nice to emulate that.

P38 W29 D8 L1 Pts 95
Goals scored 72
Goals against 15
Goal difference 57

I know they had a load of dough but it wasn’t a bad first season for Jose was it?

Digger, you’ll always be building if you have to sell good players in order to buy. Its why Arsenal have not competed since 2004 and have been re-building ever since. To build a side capable of winning the title you have to do a lot more adding than subtracting.

With our current finances we will always be – not 1 or 2 players away that has been the case in the last couple of years, but more like 4 or 5 players away, going forward. So no matter who our manager is get used to that my friend.

Ask questions of Rafa? Yes. Sack rafa? No. Not after one poor season. As I have already said, since Rafa came here only Mourinho and Ferguson have been more successful. That’s the big picture. Some dross football for most of this season and a couple of disgraceful results will not have me calling for his head.

The lack of finances doesn’t explain performances against Stoke and Reading or Wolves and Pompey. But it does explain the bigger picture of why we are in a fight with Spurs, City, and Villa for 4th place rather than challenging Chelsea and the Mancs for the title.

I hear ya Arthur. And if Aquilani dosent start against Blackburn its ‘ah well they’d kick the shite out of him’. Indeed. So ultimately we’ve bought a 20mil pound player to play 6 games a season against the 3 teams that actually try to play football?! Aka Spurs, west ham and arsenal! And ya just no we cant start him against wigan cos ‘that pitch is shit’ and on and on…. LB, are we 4 or 5 players away from beating pompey? Reading? Wolves? Should we get used to that my friend?

Digger – read the last paragraph in post #140.

But to answer your question no we shouldn’t get used to poor performances against Reading, Wolves and Pompey. But get used to fighting to the death for 4th place in the league. That’s the big picture. The objectives at the start of the season is not to beat wolves 5-0 playing lovely football. It’s to finish as high up the table as possible. At the moment our league position pretty much corresponds with the cost of our squad and wage bill.

I have a question though Arthur and Digger. If our summer transfer spend is equivalent to the last few transfer windows and our rivals spending corresponds with the last few windows. What are your expectations for next season?

This season, there has been an element of Liverpool screwing up and an element of just the crazy season this has been, that has made it look spectaculary bad for us. When we try and explain our form against some of the lesser teams, also remember that this season the Champions and still in the running to be, the almighty scums have lost to Everton, Fulham, Villa, Burnley, Chelsea and Liverpool while drawing against the mighty B’gham, Sunderland and Villa.

This has by far been Rafas worst season and we’ll still be fewer points off the top than our previous worst.

YNWA

Digger/Arthur; Rafa said of Aquilani ‘We’ve bought him for 5 years not 5 months’ I know it’s frustrating I’d love to see more of Aquilani cos he looks like he’ll be class for us but I’ve got to trust Rafa on this one.

LB: That’s a good point about always building if you have to sell. If we hadn’t had to sell
Arbeloa,Glen Johnson’s injury wouldn’t have hurt us like it has. We would have had Aquilani added to the squad instead of replacing someone.

Digger/Arthur Do you think Fergie/Maureen would have done a better job than Rafa? Honestly?

Think of the plays Rafa’s wanted. I don’t mean 1 or 2 that would always slip through the fingers like Shearer did for the mancs. I mean a list as long as your arm. Do you think we’d have won the league by now if he’d been allowed 25% of the plays he went after? I do and I think it’d have been won in style.

You cut your cloth accordingly is saying that applies to us. As LB says we are were we should be taking into account money spent.

Kenny,

Would Michael Schumacher have won all those formula ones with Del Boy`s three wheeled van?

Would Lance Armstrong have won all those Tour de France`s with a BMX?

Not likely

Ok to answer LB and Kenny’s questions:

LB – if we have a similar budget next summer – I would at least expect us to be able to get out of our Champions League group (assuming we qualify in the first place). If you look at our group this season – we should have been well capable of finishing 1st/2nd. The performances against Debrecen summed up all that has been wrong this year and remember in the first game against them we pretty much had our full team out. So yeah to get out of the group..

As for expectations of league placement – well lets just say to consistently play better quality football against the lower teams. I don’t mind digging in/ grinding out (choose whatever phrase you wish) against the so called bigger teams but how we have played against the likes of Stoke, Wigan, Wolves (home and away) and the rest this season is very very wrong. I would not just make bold statements and say we should finish 1st, 2nd , 3rd..but looking at the squad we have – put it this way: we shouldn’t be where we are right now. If I saw a repeat of that again (assuming Utd, Chelsea/ Arsenal don’t go on a mad spending spree) than there is something seriously wrong.

Putting it simply LB – I’m not assuming we’ll stroll to the league and yeah perhaps we’re a few players short and will remain a few players short without decent consistent investment – but we can play better, attacking positive football and at least have a go! As maybe you said (or was it Digger?) – apart from that mythical end of last season run – when have we ever seen attack minded style from Rafa??

Kenny: Would Mourinho/Fergusion do better than Rafa? – couldn’t tell ya. Love him or loath him – Ferguson is one of the best managers of all time – playing attacking football home and away – always. Would that work with the current LFC squad – maybe not but he’ll never leave Utd so its all a moot point. Mourinho would need big investment if he were to come here – so unless that would happen I couldn’t see him being much more succesful than Rafa. But I for one (unlike some in here) wouldn’t hand in my badge if he did become manager – I’d give him a fair go.

Kenny – do you not think questions need to be asked about how Aquilani has been used? I mean the whole Blackburn/Bolton/Wigan (insert random kicking team name here) would kick lumps out of him” arguement is a very poor one do you not think?

I think the jury is well and truly out on Aquaman – I know people like FS in here reckon he’ll be the dogs bollocks – and obviously Burgerman reckons he should be shipped out because he hasn’t scored 26 goals and have 40 assists to his name already. So what is the truth? Well I’d say we’ll probably really only know once he’s had a whole pre-season under his belt. But from my observations it looks like he’s better when he’s behind the front one (i.e. Torres) and has struggled when he’s in the middle alongside Mascherano/Lucas. Now….do we not have a glaring problem then if Gerrard isn’t put out right? Just my initial thoughts on the lad from the very limited amount of time we’ve been allowed see of him.

Author,

The tramp always played attacking football in the prem because he always had the best team and players.
In Europe it was a different story altogether,he had to learn how to get results by changing from going gung ho like he could afford to do domesticlly to playing it cagey in europe.So to say he`s an all out attack manager is slightly wide of the mark.
But to answer the question kenny put down i`d say nobody even the tramp or maureen could win us the title under present conditions.

Answer this,again a hypothetical question but worth asking in the context of this debate.

In your opinion would Ferguson have won the Champions league in 2005 with that squad under his methods??

Arthur
“something badly went wrong this season and it ain’t just injuries and Yank ownwers that are to blame..” maybe so but it explains quite a lot they are 2 of the biggest factors when it comes to winning titles .
We got 11 pts from 15 playing Stoke,Wigan & Wolves points dropped because these teams dont mind playing for a draw at home.
Ferguson playing attacking football really ? 11 1-0 wins last season to win it. OG been the 2nd highest scorer this season doesn’t strike me as attacking football more luck and dodgy refs. When ever someone outspends him he usually doesnt win the league.
YNWA

good question Timmy – lets just say in the cold light of day our winning the Champions League is one of the greatest sporting stories EVER! Ferguson himself has his own miracle(s) in the Champions League but not comparable to our 2005 feat. As much as I enjoyed our run to the final and subsequent glorious victory – you have to look and see how lucky we were. You might say we deserved our luck but:

1) Gerrard Vs Olympiakos
2) Gudjohsons miss in the 6th min of injury time
3) pretty much all of the game Vs Milan

from some reason we were just destined to win that year and it was great..but we were very far from being the best team in Europe that year. In fact I would have really enjoyed winning 2007 CL final because I genuinely feel it was a better run (not needing to rely on last min goals and luck etc) and we dominated the final itself.

Say Ferguson senstionally left Utd and joined us in 2005 – would we have won CL – probably not. Would we be playing better football and have won the league by now (assuming all teams had the same budgets that they actually spent in those years)? I believe we would have. But of course this is just fantasy talk…

However, I disagree when you say he’s always played attacking football in the Premier League only because he’s had the best team and players. That’s not always been true – Arsenal 2002-2004 were better as were Chelsea 2005-2007/08. He still kept playing attacking football against the lesser teams – and always will. In fact it’s the key to winning the title – look at Utd’d record against the Big 4 last year!

Rome – I don’t really see how you can doubt whether or not Ferguson is more “attack minded” than Rafa is. I believe this current Utd are a very poor imitation of some of his better teams – but they still are much more attacking (in terms of formation and attitude) than we ever are. Last year they were vulnerable – but 11 one nil victories doesnt mean they were not attacking. In fact 11 one nils to me means they only missed a genuine out and out striker – which they did because of how they lined up with Ronaldo playing a central role for them

Author the 2005 CL run was a lot more than luck pal.Yes we had our times of luck along the way as you pointed out but you don`t beat the three strongest sides in Europe with just luck.Juve,chelsea and milan were by far the 3 strongest teams at timea.
Rafa`s didn`t get enough credit for that fantastic achievement.
He was lucky,it was geds team and all that.If that was the case why didn`t ged win it?

Cant remember how many times we scored 4 goals last season but that is attacking football.
1-0 is usually a grinding out result and a few of those involved some “favours” from the MUFA which essentially handed them the league. And with such a expensive squad that must surely bring criticism.
Or Maybe it’s just Rafa that should be criticised

On the subject of Istanbul and luck i say which half ? 1st or 2nd.

Arthur, thanks for addressing my question. Can I ask a few more….

Next season – If our budget s similar to what it is now do you expect us to compete for the title or is it more likely we’ll be fighting Arsenal, Spurs, City and Villa for 3rd and 4th place?

Also can I ask if you think we have a better squad than Spurs, City and Villa?

The reason I ask these questions is because I do not think our squad is superior to Spurs or City. I think we have a few players that are elite such as Gerrard, Torres and Reina. Other than that though players at City and Spurs are comparable to what we have. Therefore I don’t think we are under achieving in terms of league position. I think it’s par. The reason I think it is par is because we haven’t had our elite players – the 2 that push us ahead of Spurs, City, Villa and Arsenal in, my opinion, for a large chunk of the season.

In short I think our squad without Gerrard and Torres is not better that City or Spurs or Arsenal. Most of you lads may disagree but this is my opinion. That’s why I ask many reds fans – my own mates, why exactly should we be doing better in terms of our league position? On what basis should we be doing better?

Now there is the argument that we should be playing better football. I go along with that. I am not happy with the football at all. The lack of creativity is a joke away from home and some results have been a disgrace. Aquilani can only play against nice pretty teams on a lovely pitch and then only for 70 mins. I moan about those things as much as the likes of Digger, Arthur et al. The difference is that I see the bigger picture and that is the fact Rafa has been successful. 2 league campaigns with more than 80 points. 2 CL finals, 1 FA Cup final and a Carling cup final. CL qualification every season. 2 major trophies. I think that is a rather good return and I do not believe any other manager could have done better under the circumstances Rafa has been working under. Maybe someone else could have produced more attractive football but not ultimately been more successful.

There has been excellent football in patches. Last season from February to May. The 2004/05 CL campaign especially games at Anfield. The 2005/06 season where we were the form side from October – May. We went to teams like Inter and played them off the park in 2007/08. Beat Marseille 4-0 away. Won at the Camp Nou and played a wicked Barca side off the pitch at Anfield for the first 30 mins. This season with a near full side we beat Hull 6-1 and Stoke 4-0 at Anfield and Bolton 3-0 at the Reebok. We brushed the mancs and did the double over a good Everton side.

We have been inconsistent – that is what happens when you have a squad like ours with it’s elite players missing for large chunks of the season. The only way our league position will improve next season is if we are lucky with injuries which means our elite players available for most of the time. If not then it is my belief that we will be battling for 3rd and 4th place. Even so if that is the case I do expect the football to be better.

Excellently put LB.

Far too many people want to point at 1 or 2 things and say “that’s why” for any given subject we discuss in here.

The reality is a collection of cumulative circumstances… but that requires thought and the use of brain cells.

Philosophical arguments about how well JoMo or Fergie would have done with the same team are all fun, but they are just that… philosophical arguments/discussions.

As I said, they are fun, but they far too often lead to arguments in here, coz they aren’t based on facts, but rather a tring of varying scenarios.

Our season has been as it has been, not because of the lack of money, or the ownership, or injuries to SG and FT, or the injuries to Johnson and the other 1st choice players, or the injuries to their 2nd string replacements, or the injuries to in some cases 3rd choice replacements, or weird flu bugs, or even weirder vomiting bugs, lack of fitness, or lack of form, or lack of self-belief/mentality, bad refereeing, 17 different back 4 line-ups, or beachballs….

…but because of a combination of ALL of those things, and probably an additional list of things (within the club) we aren’t even aware of.

…Or…
not, and its just because Rafa is too negative!

Don`t forget the Global warming problem too Aitch because of Rafa….

Or is that Lucas` fault????

These are the 7 players i regard as 1st choice if fit and in reasonable form:REINA,G JOHNSON,AGGER,MASCHERANO,GERRARD,BENAYOUN,TORRES.IMHO I’m interested to see what the rest of you think

YNWA

LB, I think player for player we’re about on par with Arsenal, Spurs, United, Villa, whats gone from the Liverpool is our heart and determination, it was the one thing all teams feared about LFC. Regardless of how are players play the game, it was our dire need to succeed on the paddock that made us a feared team.
.
That aspect has gone at the moment and like Hyhenas feading on a wounded lion, other teams know it.
.
As I said before, my team just appears to be going through the motions and thats not the team who beat the likes of Olympiakos.
.
I think we’d all agree that the team we have now is head and shoulders above the CL winning team.

Rafamuffin
I’d add Carra to that list but basically your right now the problem is 5 of them have missed too much of the season and Monster will alway’s miss games through suspension ( because of the nature of his job ) and I think Insua will end up on the list. For any player not named its not because their crap or will never become great, Its just in a ideal world we’d have more quality competing for a starting line up.

Anyone see that supposedly great DM Fletcher getting shown up by those Everton kids, resulting in 2 goals. I just know Monster would have stopped both of them.
YNWA

Good post LB…and some valid points. Overall I would say currently Utd and Chelsea have better squads than us…but only Chelsea have a better first 11. I believe our squad is stronger in depth and quality than Arsenal, Aston Villa and even Spurs. Spurs spend a lot but their defence is too reliant on an almost constantly injured King, their keeper is shite and when Defoe ain’t on form they struggle to score goals.

Man City are a strange one – Hughes had a lot of money to spend …but did he spend wisely. I don’t think he did…

Given, Tevez and Bridge(maybe) are all good signings…but the jury is still out on Barry (doesnt score, doesnt create much) Adebayor(highest paid footballer in league..one of the biggest egos) and Touré and Lescott are decidedly hit and miss as a defensive duo. I think they have a lot of work to do before they can win the league and don’t be surprised if they have a new manager come the start of the new season. Their biggest assest is the spending power they have – but don’t underestimate the fact that City are not technically a “big” club (in historic sense) and although they have plenty of cash to splash – certain top drawer players will still rather play for LFC, Utd, Arsenal or Chelsea

to answer your question – as long as Utd and Chelsea don’t crazily strengthen over the summer and we have better luck with injuries we should be as close as we were in 2008/2009. And CERTAINLY we should playing much much better football – I think you’d have to be a blind man not see that this season eerily mirrors the last two Houllier years in terms of entertainment. I remember in 2003/2004 finding it extraordinarily difficult to watch our games on T.V. without switching channels..we were that bad!!! Now it hasn’t quite come to that under Rafa…but it’s getting there and I feel that we’ll need to seriously up our game a significant few notches over the next two months because we can’t claim the points we’ll need by just being hard to beat

Rafmuffin: Johnson needs to have a strong showing once he comes back from injury. He started off great but in December he looked ropey at times (especially against Arsenal) so I wouldn’t be rushing to acclaim him just yet

Gaz: Spot on – this current team is a far far better than the 2005 winning side..

Arthur,

LB did a good job in dispelling your myth about Rafa ALWAYS playing negative football except end of last season with the thrashings against Hull, Stoke, Marseille and I add the Turkish team (forgot the name) which is still the Champions League record, together with the great display Barcelona.

LB,

I agree with you that with our finances, we’ll be looking at fighting for 3rd and 4th places from now on, unless we get a lot of money flowing in. And I actually believe Man City, with all the money will overtake us in squad strength in a season or two.

Since 2004, when the real BIG money has been poured into the Premiership, even Arsenals “invincibles” of 2004 has sunk to fighting for 3rd and 4th place since 2005. We only see Man U and Chelsea fighting for the Premiership except last season, and I think the money factor together with a strong base of good players are the 2 main reasons for this.

Fast forward 2009. We have another GIANT spender in Man City. This time, our beloved “best” team of 2009 is looking like Arsenal, struggling for 3rd and 4th every season since.

Like what LB says, Spurs and (especially) City are already having comparable squads to ours, and will likely be better than ours in the years to come if our finances are still so tight.

Quoting from LB (again), the big picture shows that Rafa is actually doing very well, and in fact overachieving.

Guys, we have to face the facts. We are no longer the dominant force in English football that we once were, and with financial situations like this, the future doesn’t look too bright.

So what’s the solution?

Rafa is only really starting to build from the youth level after ousting Perry last year. We have a pretty decent Youth Team (winners of previous FA Youth Cups but knocked out early this year) and a Reserve Team (winners 2 seasons back and looking like winning again). The Youth policy is the future, very much like what Wenger has been doing with Arsenal for the past 5 to 10 years.

So my appeal is to give Rafa more time and space, as the Youth policy will take time to bear fruit. His results have been good (in fact overachieving given the squad he inherited and the finances available), and the Youth policy is starting to show some promise with Insua starting regularly and players like Pacheco & Kelly beginning to look good.

Ax – I don’t think I said he ALWAYS plays negative football – just most of the time

But in my eyes this is no myth – and certainly not this season – but we’ll have to agree to disagree

As for the success of Rafa’s youth policy – well i have yet to see strong evidence of this – we’ll have to wait and see

I was not going to say anything but the new sage of the Blog LB inspired me to add (because he put it so succinctly) apart from being the top scores last year we had a horrendous start to the season with 11 first team injuries (half the thin squad we have) and I lost count to how many defensive partnerships (12 I think) we had during the first half and are still trying to cope with that know. Carra at right back curtails our attacking options immensely.

It is utter naivety and stupidity to say that it did not have an impact on how we played or how we dug ourselves out of the predicament. We tightened up and stopped the shipping of soft goals. It was the only thing we could have done as we had no 30 mill substitutes to throw on. Yes at the expense of a more attacking and expansive game, but it worked and still is.

Then you through in injuries to three quarters of our goal sources in Torres, Gerrard and Benny (50 odd goals between them last year). Take away another attacking option in Glenda and everybody is surprised that we are not attacking at will and scoring for fun.

The utter madness of that statement is beyond belief. This team is still the team, minus Alonso that scored the most goals last season, but we have to get everybody fit for a period of time in order to get back to that level. Injured players coming in and out cannot be deemed as fully fit and fully sharp. The only way to build on the disastrous start we have had is to dig deep and play tight, there is no other way.

Ludicrous statements that United always attack, with 30 mill striking options on the bench they have to because Slur Alex is tactically inept hence AC Milan giving them a hiding in the CL a few seasons back and our 4-1 drubbing. It works in the Prem because of the lack of technical quality to take advantage of the space they leave or guts to have a go at them. People buy into their invincibility too easily and the teams that take the game to them in recent times have gotten the right results.

The ludicrous statement that the jury is out on Rafa’s youth system is beyond belief. Insua, Ngog, Kelly, Pacheco, Ayala, Lucas, El Zhar, Spearing, Darby (to an extent) Eccelston (to an extent), Babbel (to an extent) and Nemeth have all played first team and have shown more than enough glimpses of what we can expect in the future and are all on the right side of 25.

Least we forget that Masch was 23 when he joined us from the Wet Spam reserves and is know Captain of the Argies and rated one of the best defensive midfielders in the world. In the 5 and half years Rafa has been here, you can take the first two years away as he had to concentrate on the first team squad, I think what he has accomplished (12 juniors that have played for the first team this year) in 3 and half years since is miraculous.

Further down the pecking order we have shining lights like Bruno (rated the same as Pacheco) Dalla Valla, Ince, Mavinga, Pepper and the likes.

Some people should think of the reality of the situation and check the actual facts before spouting unrealistic and unsupported drivel.

We’ll never see eye to eye Keith it seems

By your rationale, just because a youth team player ends up playing in the first team (in whatever competition) you somehow deem that to be a success. For me having a “successful youth policy” means bringing players through that are of sufficient quality to become first team players and truly develop into top class talent. (Fowler, McManaman, Redknapp and Gerrard and Fergies Kids in the 90′s are prime examples of a successful youth policy)

Also when I’m talking about “youth” I mean players who have come through the ranks or played in the reserves – that rules out Lucas and Babel as they were bought at a high cost and for the most part have been in the first team squad ever since they arrived.

As for the others – some of them deffo have potential (Ngog, Pacheco, Kelly) but as I said it’s waay too early to judge if they will be an actual success not a guess/estimated or “when they’re the right side of 25″ success. Hence why I said the jury is out. I didn’t call Rafa’s policy a flop – it’s just that none of us know if it will be a success as it can only be judged in about 3/4 years down the line

As for attacking or not attacking style of play – we’ve had injuries (so have all other teams) but (and here I’ll say it one more time) even when we had our full team (i.e. with Gerrard, Torres, Johnson et al) we’ve played very poorly in many games this season.

Here endeth my drivel

P.S. Keith – It’s quite petty of you to dismiss someone else’s argument as drivel just because you happen to disagree with it.

Arthur, man city don’t have to win the league for us to be in trouble, they just need to spend a few more quid and fight for 3/4th place and we are in trouble mate.

Fergie does play attacking football that’s not the argument. Would fergie have had more success under the same circumstances as Rafa? who knows as has been said it’s all if’s n buts. However I look at what happened when he had to deal with good managers who had a shedload of money to spend – he didn’t do too well.

First time – he was a whisker away from the sack. King Kenny leaves LFC and we knock ourselves off the effing perch by appointing Souness as manager.

Second time – Arsene Wenger (I did not see it)turns up at the gooners and builds on their already watertight defence.

Third time – Jose Maureen has a shed load of money the mancs don’t win the title for 3 years. Fergie is back on his effing perch after the chav’s shoot themselves in the foot and name that genius avram grant as manager.

Fourth time??? – Carlo Ancelotti appointed a double european champions league winner and the chavs favourites for the title. We will see.

Liverpool’s youth system? hard evidence? cmon arthur stop coming at everything from a I will not be proved wrong stance!!

Whether Rafa will win the league or not I don’t know. what I do know is he did it with Valencia, twice, who were the equivalent of Aston Villa in Spain against Barca/Real(mancs n chavs)playing top class football So I would bet against him doing it here.

Arthur, I don’t remember Mcmananman, Fowler or Rednapp winning the title so the fact that they were in the first team means that you are saying they were a success which sort of contradicts your argument.

Oh and I think we can safely say Rafa is doing all he can to make the youth policy a success. He revamped the whole Academy of how it is run, has brought in his own personel including the guy who was at Barca who brought in the likes of Messi/Fabregas etc.

That’s where we somehow agree Arthur, about waiting a few more years before seeing whether Rafa’s youth policy is successful.

And you forgot about Insua, clearly a young player bought by Rafa who rose through the ranks from the reserves.

So Insua is coming from the youth system and fairly successful so far, and Ngog’s goal ratio in this “ultra-defensive” Liverpool this season isn’t what the press and you guys say as bad. We’ll wait and see if Pacheco is successful

I’m inclined to be excited about Rafa’s youth policy, despite all the naysayers, seeing how well our reserves are doing, even without their main scoring machine in Nemeth (our equivalent of Torres in 1st team) this season.

Kenny – I never said a successful youth policy had anything to do with winning the title – I said it meant producing top quality (internationals if you like) players and in McMananam, Fowler, Redknapp and Gerrard that is exactly what happened.

also Kenny you forget to mention that although Wenger and Mourinho “knocked Fergie off his perch” – Fergie came right back at them – especially at Wenger when he won the league in 2003

About 3 or 4 of you there saying we will only see how successful the youth policy a few years down the line. Get rid of Rafa in the summer and you may not see it come to fruition

Here Arthur, let Tomkins answer your questions re ‘lack of creativity’ & dull draw against Citeh.
http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/latest-news/tomkins-cutting-edge?
Not having a go at you, but as always, PT puts things into perspective rather simply.

He came right back at wenger who didn’t spend a shedload of money.
I’m not arguing Taggart is not a great manager as much as that pains me. What I’m saying is that you need to be more than a great manager to win the title. when Taggart came right back at them he didn’t do it without shelling out some serious money on players and that’s taking in to account he already had a settled team and was just adding quality not replacing it. He also said to the manure board I want this player and they went out and got him.

Youth Policy – Fergie was there 7 years before his youth came through and he’s still relying on 2 of them now – Giggs/Scholes

Wenger was there a good few years I think 5 before his youth policy started bearing fruit.

The Chav’s don’t have one neither do man city or spurs or villa not one that seems to work anyway.

I think West Ham’s has one of the best.

The point is it’s not easy to bring top class talent through to win the title. It’s easier to throw money at it. Wenger’s policy is to spend good money on top class youth ie; Ramsey/Walcott to try and make sure it works.

Good article by Tompkins as usual Rafa – I actually don’t have a problem with the performance against City – it’s the others ones blah blah zzzzzzzzzz

Nemeth has been held up as a possible striker for the Reds .He has managed 3 goals from 7 appearances for AEK, Cisse has 18 from 22 for Panathinaikos.Who would do a better job @ Anfield next season?.

haven’t been in for a while, but reassuring to see that nothing changes. keith, you really are an arrogant, dismissive, belittling little cockend and i thank shanks i’ll never have the misfortune to actually meet you. imagine that. an evening with keith telling you how stupid and wrong you are while he tells you how life really is. give me burgerman for a pint and a laugh any day.

authur, i enjoy your calm and rational outlook, even when i don’t agree with what you’re saying. nice one mate.

by the way, tomkins might be exceptionally well-read on the subject of lfc, but he’s so one-eyed he manipulates every fact and stat to suit his views. he’s very informative, but there’s rarely even a hint of objectivity in his writing. i reckon gerry and a few of you sages usually have a more realistic take on the state of the team, hence i come here first, and only check out tomkins as a passing interest.

still holding out for at least one display of champagne football before the end of the season. yeah… i know…

Sambo – I like Tomkins’ stuff but when he writes for LFC it is very hard for him to be well, shall we say “controversial”.

Anyway one point I do agree with him on is, at this stage of the season I’d take us kicking the shite ouf of the opposition (which Masher seems to be taking literally these days) and boring us all to death if it means we get fourth. But we’ll all expect a major improvement in style and attitude next year

That was actually one of Tomkins better articles even though he contradicts previous positions he’s held during the season. The table ‘isnt balanced’ right now?! Before Christmas it was all about ‘the table will even out’ etc. We’ve been ‘in crisis since opening day’?! WTF?! This is the guy who was telling us then there was NO crisis as he spurted every excuse and empty stat he could muster to disguise the obvious fact we were very much in crisis! Do me a favour Paul….

Sambo that’s a bit insulting to Burgerman in a way. I’d prefer Burgerman’s company to that of an arrogant, dismissive, belittling little cockend? That’s hilarious

I think he was being ironic about the press Digger when we lost the first game of the season. That’s how I understood it anyway.

Of course hes not objective Sambo. Hes been writing with 1 reader in mind for 5yrs! In his ‘My day with Rafa’ article he writes ‘once I was made aware Rafa was a regular reader of my column I knew had to get everythin right. Right? Mmmm…. Before this he writes Rafa ‘thanks’ him for the last 5yrs. Objective?! Tomkins is the equivalent of the White House press Secretary! Paul Tomkins is Robert Gibbs!!

Well at least we have someone writing positive articles about Rafa & LFC (besides Gerry), coz no other fucker in the English & Irish press seems to! Here you guys are having a dig at Tomkins (well, the anti-Rafa guys anyway), despite Tomkins backing up his points with facts. What gives? Are you all so anti-Rafa, so negative about LFC that we are resorting to bashing anyone who praises Rafa or the boys? We have enough of that shit from Cascarino, Kay & the likes – we don’t need sarcasm & negativity from our own supporters as well.

Nope. We’re just saying he lacks objectivity is all. No offense meant Rafalution. I actually thought it was one of his better articles, normally I need a bucket beside me when I’m reading his stuff! (joking!) Btw LB and Ken I’ve not forgotten ye’re questions its just I’m posting on my phone en route to work as per usual and the 512 permitted characters (letters) aint gonna do ye’re questions justice. In short I expect another battle for 4th next season regardless of how much money he spends.

Squad comparisons……..

Defence

LFC: Carra, Agger, Kyrgriakos, Skrtel, Johnson, Insua, Degen, Kelly, Darby
Arse: Sagna, Vermalen, Clichy, Gallas, Traore, Campbell, Gibbs, Djourou, Slivestre
Spurs: King, Bassong, Dawson, Corluka, Assou-Ekotto, Woodgate, Hutton, Bale, Kaboul
City: Lescott, Toure, Bridge, Garrido, Sylvinho, Richards, Zabaleta, Onuoha
Villa: Young, Dunne, Warnock, Davis, Cuellar, Collins, Beye, Bouma

Midfield

LFC: Gerrard, Benayoun, Kuyt, Masch, Riera, Babel, Lucas, Aquilani, Maxi, Spearing, Plessis, El Zahr
Arse: Fabregas, Diabi, Song, Nasri, Arshavin, Rosicky, Walcott, Denilson, Wilshere, Ramsey, Merida, Eboue
Spurs: Modric, Palacios, Lennon, Jenas, Huddlestone, Bentley, Kranjcar, O’Hara, Rose, Livermore
City: Ireland, Barry, Viera, Petrov, A Johnson, de Jong, Wright Philips, Kompany, Wiess, Etuhu, Ibrahim, M Johnson
Villa: Young, Downing, Milner, Petrov, Delph, Sidwell, Albrighton, Salifu, Reo-Coker, Bannan, Hogg

Strikers

LFC: Torres, Ngog, Pacheco
Arse: Van Persie, Eduardo, Vella, Bendter
Spurs: Defoe, Crouch, Pavlyuchenko, Keane, Gudjohnsen
City: Tevez, Santa Cruz, Adebayor, Robinho, Bellamy, Bojinov, Benjani, Jo, Caideco
Villa: Agbonlohor, Heskey, Carew

If you take out Gerrard and Torres I don’t think our squad is superior City, Spurs or Arse. Villa looks like a small squad and if they had the injuries we’ve had they’d probably be in the bottom 8. What are your thoughts?

Probably won’t prove much but just for fun I’d like everyone to pick their preferred starting XI and second XI from the players above.

My first XI:

Reina, Assou-Ekotto, Vermalen, Carragher, Clichy, Gerrard, Fabregas, Young, Arshavin, Torres, Tevez

My 2nd XI

Friedel, Sagna, King, Agger, Bridge, Modric, Palacios, Ireland, Young, Defoe, Van Persie

Unbelievable, just because Tomkins tries his best to be as uplifting and positive in his article (and providing facts and “boring” stats along the way), he gets labelled as Rafa’s Rottweiler that can spin something positive even “if the team gets relegated”, according to the Anti-Rafa Circus (ARC) anyway. His Original Sin is further compounded simply because he has personally met Rafa.

(On second thought, “rottweiler” actually sounded like a compliment. Wonder if I’m using the wrong word. )

Anyway, if you’re blinded by Tomkins “biasness” towards Rafa that you automatically avoid reading his “drivel” like the plague, then here’s an article saying why last week’s draw isn’t the end of the world from someone else besides Tomkins.

http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/columnists/david-maddock/Why-Liverpool-s-dour-draw-at-Manchester-City-was-exactly-what-Rafa-Benitez-planned-and-why-the-Reds-will-definitely-get-fourth-spot-The-David-Maddock-Column-article332763.html

I think Digger that you are right in questioning the objectivity in the Tomkins columns on the official website, but his job there is not to be doing neutral journalism about how football works in England. It is to present facts and arguments that the “real” journalists like to sweep under the carpet when they assess Liverpool’s performances and the job Rafa does.

In some instances we may have good reason to question the validity of these arguments, but the point is that the arguments presented in the media (and often by journalists) is not as neutral or objective as they insist, so there is certainly a place for these writings by Tomkins just to compensate for all the agenda driven disinformation we are all constantly being bombarded by.

Oops I put Young in both teams. Hes not THAT good. Think I’d go with Lennon but its a close one with Benny and Wright-Phillips. Rosicky when fit is better than the lot of them but he’s hardly fit.

I’ll do a first XI don’t have time for a second

Reina, Sagna, Agger, Vermaelen, Warnock, Fabregas, Macherano, Arshavin, Gerrard (right side) Torres and Tevez

Savage team

Here goes;

Reina

Johnson, Carra, Agger, Insua

Mascherano

Rosicky Gerrard Fabregas Arshavin

Torres

My team is making me lick my lips.

subs: sagna, vermaellen, young, tevez, nasri, friedel, modric

I do wonder how, when we talk about the successes of sir Taggart, we can ignore the special treatments he had received/is receiving from the FA and the match officials throughout his bully-god-like years in the premier league. Take those away and see how the mancs would have been that brave to play the attacking football that is always mentioned of them.

That’s kinda hard to back up Khan – as much as we all despise him – I think it’s difficult to ignore how good he has been these last 30 years (with Aberdeen and The Scum)

Hard to back up ! My arse

It’s a bit of a pointless issue, no? If me auntie had bollocks she’d be my uncle..and all that jazz

Irony = people who are often the least objective, crying out for objectivity!

Sambo I never mentioned names or insulted anyone directly, I just commented on their statements or should I say pronouncement. If 11 injuries to a first team squad of 23 should not affect the way we play becasue all teams have injuries is bandied around and you take heart and enjoy such negative sentiments then obviously I am on the wrong site. You are welcome to Burgerman and his intelligent thought out blogs, along with the rest of the CBC and life time supporters, I will gladly withdraw. I will take you not wanting to have a drink with me as a compliment.

Hmmm…

so Tomkins is “so one-eyed he manipulates every fact and stat to suit his views”
…and…
has been “writing with 1 reader in mind for 5yrs” and
“he lacks objectivity”
and
“when he writes for LFC it is very hard for him to be well, shall we say “controversial.”

but if he is so one-sided, and lacks objectivity is that not in itself controversial?

And if he does lack objectivity, as is being claimed, then would Tompkins not simply stay with one position, “the club is not in crisis right now!” throughout the season…

…rather than, as the season develops and he is presented with the cold hard facts of performances, an increasing injury list, longer recovery times, and increasing loss of form, confidence and results…
… then change his position accordingly?
… is that not the very definition of objectivity?

You can’t have it both ways…

I dont want it both ways. Believe me Aitch, I dont read Tomkins articles for objectivity. I read Gerrys for that. And I’m not claiming hes not objective, I’m SAYING hes not objective. If you think he is well, then, good for you mate. Dick Cheneys got some wmd’s for ya too bud!

I know who I’d rather have a drink with Keith!

While I think there are a few things you could debate in you post at 165, (you’ve included some players who show promise, but have yet to prove themselves) I thought it was quite good.

And it was good because it prompted Arthur to hold up Fowler, McMannaman and Redknapp as examples of an opposing argument.

So let’s look at that. (from a “fans” point of view)

As far as their “career” goes…
Of the 3, one (Fowler) ended up injury plagued and bounced around mid-table clubs, ending up in a piss-poor Australian league…
one (Redknapp) ended up injury plagued and became a gobshite TV pundit…
and one (McMannaman) went on to win La Liga and CL medals with Real Madrid (arguably the biggest club in footy… I did say arguably!)

Now interestingly enough…
only Fowler was lighting in a bottle his first season. And then duplicated that form consistently for several seasons in a row.

Redknapp (who was purchased and not home-grown) was good, but not stellar his first season, got better and then injuries while playing for England essentially ruined him.

MaMannaman… well I spent all of 92 sitting next to a fat bloke in the Main Stand, who provided me with a weekly 90 minute assessment, of how rubbish he was, and how he was too lightweight and could never beat top draw defenders, and how he just ran with his head down… and it wasn’t an unusual opinion of the lad. Fans were split 50/50 on Macca initially. He was all “potential” in his first couple of seasons, but became a lynchpin later.

So how would all 3 fair in the modern fans era?

Redknapp would be offloaded coz of his injuries.
Macca would be shipped out and realize his potential elsewhere.
and only Fowler would be welcomed with open arms.

Remember …The general consensus on Jamie Carraghher was that he was not good enough for LFC… thank god Evans ignored that, Houllier ignored that, and Rafa has reaped that reward.

NO, NO, NO.
Sorry Digger, you don’t get to just claim the higher ground by making a blanket statement, within which you suggest that you are the one that is objective and make a not terribly well veiled accusation that others aren’t.

You used to come in here and have discussions with people, and you were someone I used to enjoy discussing things with, as I do now with Arthur… he will at least take the time to support his position on things…
…but certainly this season, you’ve tossed that all out the window and resorted to nothing but snarky comments and short blanket statements…. that are anything BUT objective.
..and you can’t use typing on a blackberry as an excuse for that.

And I suggest taking a good look at your own posts if you want to find ones that sound like extreme right-wing rhetoric.

YES, YES, YES. (he said in his best brad pitt impersonation!) Nah seriously Aitch whos claiming higher ground?? Blanket statement? Veiled accusations?? What the french toast man?! I merely stated that I believe the guy is not objective. Where have I alluded to others objectivity? Your the one saying I’m anything BUT objective! Is this a wind up?! Short snarky statements? Check out post 197, now theres irony! Sorry Aitch, dunno who took the jam out your donut but……And right wing rhetoric?! Aw man!….

Digger have you been watching the film Snatch because the answer is
“You, you took the f*cking jam out of my donut.

You did not “merely” state that you “believed” he was not objective, Digger…
You categorically stated it.
“I’m not claiming hes not objective, I’m SAYING hes not objective”
Fuckin ‘ell, you even capped it for emphasis!

I’m not suggesting there aren’t alternate arguments for anything Tomkins has to say, but more often than not, he supports what he says… usually with facts and figures.

But I haven’t once seen you change your position on anything this season, so I’m not entirely sure why I even bothered.

Yeah great film Rome, ‘Getaway driver?! What the fuck could he get away from?!’. Was hoping Aitch would enjoy the Inglorious Basterds reference too but sadly…. Yes Aitch, I categorically stated my opinion. Dont know why you’ve taken such umbrage with it but there you go. It is what is. I’m guessing you think he is objective? Fair enough. Good for you mate. I’m not a catholic missionary here to convert you! As for changing my position, as Bill Maher would say; ….but I’m not wrong!….

Felt like commenting because I saw a couple of good posts worth reacting to.

I completely agree with LB with respect to his claims that our squad is not superior to Spurs, city and villa.

That is not to state that I am slating our current squad or that Rafa’s transfer targets have failed. In fact, with regard to how skint we are, he has done terrific. Some of the so-called second rate players are not as bad as they make.

And it only serves to highlight my point that I have always been making; how the hell did a top 6 team at best in substance continue to make the top 4 and finish 2nd?

The answer is Rafa. Pure and simple. Thank fuck he is in charge. I am just baffled that there are still quite a few that wants to deny this and feel the urge to characterise people like us as Rafa blind.
Just imagine what our past record would be like if crap, over-spending managers like ‘arry or Martin Knobhead were in the helm with our squad.

Our current state is a reasonable mirror of the ability of our squad. We are 6th right now, so I don’t know why people would even question rafa. It’s like slating Martinez because Wigan aren’t in the top 8.

However, I do disagree with LB when he refers to Rafa as a “wannabe Italian.” He is not. He is a “wannabe Sacchi” and those are completely different things.

Bye for now.

Hyde – I can’t believe you think our squad isn’t stronger than Villa’s (whatever about City and Spurs – who I at least think we are the equal of). Villa’s strength in depth is practically non existant and is the main reason why they fell away badly last season and are threatening to do the same again this year.

So I’m sorry – there’s no way I’m buying the argument that we’re lucky to have Rafa cos we’re (according to you) the 7th best squad in the league. In my eyes we’re on par with Arsenal’s squad and that has proven itself to be the case pretty much every year since 2006.

Rafa deserves credit for what he has achieved at the club but saying our squad is worse than Villa’s is giving Rafa false praise for achievement that should be bare minimum

Oh and Hyde – I’m a wannabe pornstar – doesn’t just make it so though unfortunately does it?

Aitch – Fowler, McManaman and Redknapp were all further developed/better/ than any of our current so called startlets were at the same equivalent stage of their careers. Obviously thats just like, my opinion, man (as Lebowski would say) but I’m sticking to it. It’s a bit trivial pointing out how their careers “ended” – George Best career didn’t exactly end in a blaze of glory did it?

Like I said earlier, Rafa is regularly being praised for having this great youth system…but I’m saying none of us can say that yet because although some are showing promise – none of them are lightening in a bottle (good phrase). The difference was I personally knew all three of my aforementioned 90′s trio would be good enough pretty much from the start. I just can’t say the same about our current crop

I just wish these journo’s would eat shit and die.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1253570/Liverpool-boss-Rafa-Benitez-gets-grilled-Romanias-press-asked-Why-fat.html

Would any other manager, or person for that matter, be treated this way. Fucking disgusting.

Arthur

True “That’s kinda hard to back up”, but I think it is just because I am a person who, to some extent, believe in the conspiracy-theory. I hate to bring this up, but how else would one explain the bizarre and unbelieveable decisions made by the refs, for example? Either something is influencing these decisions or the quality of some of the refs in the EPL sucks so bad that they shouldn’t be officiating the games.

It is difficult for me not to be a believer of conspiracy after going through what I have. Around two decades ago, more than 200 players in our league here were banned because of match-fixing/bribery. And something that once reported in the Telegraph: The American journal Foreign Policy estimated the entire Asian gambling industry, both legal and illegal, at $450 billion a year.

And gambling is okay if it were not thriving to influence league games all over the world. For example: “In February 1999 a Malaysian-based betting syndicate was caught attempting to install a remote-control device to sabotage the floodlights at English Premier League team Charlton Athletic’s ground with the aid of a corrupt security officer. If the match had been abandoned after half-time, then the result and bets would have stood. Subsequent investigations showed that the gang had been responsible for previously unsuspected “floodlight failures” at West Ham’s ground in November 1997, and again a month later at Crystal Palace’s ground during a home match of Palace’s groundsharing tenant Wimbledon.” (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Match_fixing)

Read some of them:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/premierleague/3224065/Match-fixing-Premier-League-footballs-dark-and-dangerous-side-Football.html

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=522647&cc=4716

http://blogs.forbes.com/sportsmoney/2009/11/a-massive-new-match-fixing-scandal-rocks-european-soccer/

keith, it’s not that you’re necessarily making bad points, it’s the way you make them. you used the words “madness, stupidity, drivel, ludicrous statements…” in the post i was responding to, and frankly that was a typical keith post. it makes you come across as a rather superior and unpleasant fellow, especially compared to someone like arthur who always debates his points in a friendly and open-minded manner. discussing football should be an enjoyable exchange of views, not a belittling attack on each other.

on the subject of tomkins, i agree that he backs up everything he says with a lot of ‘facts’. i just reckon he gets a bit bogged down with them and loses sight of the actual performances. Facts can be arranged to ‘prove’ anything if you structure your research around a firmly held opinion. i’m most certainly not anti-rafa and i agree that to achieve a happy medium you need the extremes of the ignorant red-hating gutter press on one side and rose-coloured tomkins on the other. i’m just saying i prefer gerry’s commentary because he comments on what he sees, not the reams of statistics he’s compiled specifically to support a belief he already holds.

Jesus – that press conference is unbelievable!! – would really love if last season’s Liverpool turned up tonight and ABSOLUTELY BATTERED these Romanians

Arthur – Hyde said not superior he didn’t say it’s inferior. So lets say as you reckon we are on a par with the gooners, city, spurs and villa. That’s 5 teams fighting for 3rd and 4th place.

Rafa has also put together that squad with considerably less money than city or spurs and probably Villa has outspent us in the last 3 years .He has slowly but surely upgraded the squad, revamped the whole youth system giving us a batch of youngsters coming through who have great potential. Now to my mind the last ones to come through were Stevie G, Michael Owen and Carra that’s 10 years ago. No one was talking about any potential youth team players coming through so at least now we have potential with at least 1 in Insua a regualr in the first team.

So I say we are lucky to have Rafa.

So I would say we are lucky to have Rafa because he’s done a job

Sorry I repeated myself. Sorry I repeated myself.

Who cares about Tomkins. I find his points interesting but he’s not the football guru. However his points do dispel certain myths. Ie; zonal marking doesn’t work. The chav’s man mark and 75 of the goals scored against them are form set pieces. angry Gay doesn’t bang on about that does he? As Tomkins says any system not executed properly doesn’t work.

Keith – just to quickly follow up on what you last commented on – when you said you didn’t mention anyone by name – well it was very clear you were addressing me (mainly because your post #165 came directly after mine and your post dealt with all the points that I had just raised)

Don’t worry I don’t take offence easily or anything but as Sambo said I don’t see the need in being quasi nasty when simply disagreeing with someones elses(different) point. I mean we all follow the same team here

Anyway no more on this – it’s cool

Kenny – ok fair enough – but I’m just surprised that anyone would think that our squad is even on par with Villa – I think we have better options in every department than them

for me it’s Chelsea, Utd, Arsenal/Liverpool(joint 3rd) City (they may overtake both us and the Gunners next season) Spurs and then Villa

I’ll agree with that assessment Arthur wacker.

Superb point there Sambo, summarized the Tomkins debate perfectly imo. My team for tonight would be: Pepe, JC, Dagger, Skertl, Insua, Babel, Masch, Stevie, Riera, Aquilani, and Dirk up top. Benny and Nando are still not ready to start but thats a strong line up. These guys have to come at us so there should be gaps for Babel and Riera to run into and Aquaman to pick them out. Stevie and Masch running the midfield, another strong performance from the back 4 and I’m hoping for a 2-0 win, Dirk and Stevie.

I think from reading reports – Benny is gonna start so I think Digger it could be your team except with Benny playing instead of Babel

Thats great news Arthur, lets hope so. Even if him and Nando come on as they did against city it would be a massive boost. Even Stevie cracked a smile when he saw them back on the pitch!

Kenny pointed out the logic for me ,but from a different respect Arthur, that’s fine if that is your assessment of our team; however, I have a suspicion that you rate our team on par with Arsenal with the record in mind first, i.e., you think we are on par with Arsenal because we always seem to finish near or above them, not the other way around.

I just find that too simplistic.

Look at Tottenham– they have had a fantastic squad now for at least 4 years; defo a top 6 squad and yet, how many times have they finished in the top 6?

You also point out Villa having better options in every department but compare the forward selection that LB pointed out. I am not sure if you can say ours is superior to villa there. Sure they are thin right now, but give them 2 more years and with the money they have they wll substantially upgrade the squad. Fuck, they can afford to spend 12 million on a dud like Downing.

Then we look at Everton; barring the weird 2005-2006 season, they have finished 4th, 6th, 5th , 5th in the past 5 season. Do you regard that as proof that they have a top 5/6 squad or a better squad to spurs or villa during that time?

But that’s it from me now.

Good to see that some sanity has come back to the blog. As Arthur has said, we are all on the same side, so let’s have a bit of calm, reasoned, discussion for a while.

Anyway, onto LFC matters, I do not see any point in holding back now. You never know when injuries will come so the best XI should now be played to the end of the season. No excuses.

This is what the whole rotation thingy is geared at i.e. having a fresh squad for the run-in. We are there now and they should be fresh enough since most of them have been injured, at some point anyway, during the season.

So full team out tonight please and worry about the next match (which is at home) when it comes.

Not saying to go mad but lets put our best players on the pitch. From Feb onwards last season we used only 13 players (I think) and it didn’t do us any harm.

Your right Lurgankop we need to be reasonable/calm and logical.

Lurgankop are you for real? That is the stupidest most idiotic idea I’ve ever heard!!! why? because it is!!!

I would say this in all seriousness – we badly need Torres for the rest of the season.

Just to come back into the debate.

Where I disagree with Keith and had arguments a couple of years ago is the notion that Rafa has improved our youth system. I think the system was shite when he arrived so I am not blaming him for the lack of talent coming through. At the same time though I cannot say that he has improved it because the real proof for me are players coming into the first team and doing very well within it. We have won the FA youth cup a couple of times and won the reserve league with a team full of teenagers. That is all well and good but only Insua has played regularly in the first team and although he has a cap for Argentina I wouldn’t label him a success yet.

With regards Tomkins – most of what he says is well backed up with facts and figures and he makes some excellent points. However he is definitely not objective as I have never seen him criticise one aspect of Rafa or even the performance in any game. I reckon we could lose 7-0 to Coventry and he’d have an excuse. A good one too!

My favourite writer is Gerry and its why I have been coming to this site for years! I like Tony Barrett as well. I like Tomkins because he can educate with the amount of research he has done.

Regarding squad comparisons. I believe our squad is better that Aston Villa’s. Their’s is quite small and as I think I mentioned before if they had the injuries we have had this season they would be in the bottom 8. I think our squad is on the same level as Arsenal’s, City and Spurs. In my opinion what sets these squads apart is the fact that we have a couple of elite players which push us ahead. Arsenal have a couple of elite players and play lovely football. City and Spurs do not have a Fabregas or Gerrard or Torres or Van Persie/Arshavin but they have a large number of very good players. Hence why they are challenging for 4th with us.

If you take Fabregas and Van Persie/Arshavin out of the Arsenal team for a large chunk of the season it would drag them closer to the pack. The pack being City, Spurs and Villa. This happened last year when Fabregas, Van Persie, Gallas, Rosicky missed a lot of football and the Arse finished 4th some 14 points behind us. They were battling with Aston Villa until around March but Villa got some injuries of their own and fell away.

We’ve had players out – our best players. And its dragged us to the pack. This year it’s Arsenal who are 10 points above us with 11 games left to play. A role reversal if you will. Slight difference is that City and Spurs are better than they were a year ago due to big spending whereas Villa are about the same.

Arthur, you said that our squad is at the same level as Arsenal’s. Well since Rafa arrived here is how the 2 squads have done:

2004-05
Liverpool: 5th in PL. CL win. Carling Cup final.
Arsenal: 2nd in PL. FA Cup win.

2005-06
Liverpool: 3rd in PL. FA Cup win.
Arsenal: 4th in PL. CL final.

2006-07
Liverpool 3rd in PL. CL final.
Arsenal 4th in PL. Carling cup final.

2007-08
Liverpool 4th in PL.
Arsenal 3rd in PL.

2008-09
Liverpool 2nd in PL.
Arsenal 4th in PL.

We’ve finished above Arsenal 3 times out of 5 years and won 2 trophies to their 1. If Arsenal finish above us this season and win a trophy it will be even.

This is the big picture I go on about. This is what gives me perspective.

LB: I’d love to but I can’t argue with that post. The bigger picture is what is lost sight of very often here.

The chav’s n manure have finished above us for nearly every season. Hmm let me see, what could be the reason for that?

Would it be becuase they’ve had good managers and a pot of cash to spend? Or is it because Rafa is crap and hasn’t got a clue?

Its not just England either where the dough determines the results. I remember watching La Liga and seeing teams like Valencia, Deportivo, Atletico and Sevilla challenge for and win the title. Not any more. Its Real and barca all the way thanks to the €.

Remember Dynamo Kiev used to get to the quarter finals of the CL every year. Teams like Borrusia Dortmund and Ajax can’t get near it now. Its a shame.

But having said all that should we play shite tonight and lose I wont be using any net spend stats. I’ll be very critical. And I must say that our CL performances were awful this season from the first game to the last.

Wayne Bridge has just stuck 2 fingers up at the England team.

Gotta say LB you really are pissing me off with all these top drawer posts lately!

Anyone could have said what he said in post 226 digger.

No matter what anyone says money has a big say in it. How did Blackburn win the league? Because they threw money at it. Obviously you have to spend money the right way.

A good manager with money will nearly always beat a good manager with no money to spend. I reckon and I haven’t done any research but 18/20. Just think of who has won the league the last 20 years.

I was referring to post 223 Ken. And the fact that he’s been really on point lately and making that point in an affable easy to understand manner. I remember when LB was an angry young man like Digger, maybe theres hope for me yet?!

One thing the gives stats a bad name is 98.6% of them are made up on the spot, Tomkins stats fall in the 1.4% .As for Spin doctor/press secretary the Mancs have SSN and a whole host of Murdock run media to pull stats out of their arse.
LB Carling Cup bit of a step down from CL for 2005.
Arthur With the injuries this season we’ve been very much on a par with Villa,in fact many of the teams we’ve fielded this season would probably be on a par with Birmingham,Sunderland or some other midtable team ( money wise ).
YNWA

KDLL #222, you’ve totally lost me. Strange I know but I am not that bright you see.

FYI, the sanity comment was not based on the past few posts but the past few blogs, were the comments were going around in circles and too much slabbering in general.

It was a refreshing change just to discuss LFC matters without all the name calling and bitching. If you have a problem with that then fair enough.

Not sure where you got the Torres comment from either. Maybe, again, I was not clear but I was saying that IMHO there is no point in holding back players for the ‘next’ league game. Put the fittest/strongest/best XI (whatever you want to call it) out tonight and let’s go at it with these Romanians. Nothing more nothing less.

I don’t think that a run in the Europa league will impact our chances of a CL place, any more that we already have. So let’s go for it and see where we are at at the end of the season.

Hi, lads I haven’t posted in here in ages but having also had a big think about our squad recenty should chip in. I don’t mean to target anyone individually but at the moment I really don’t think we should be making comparisons with Spurs or Villa’s squads, despite how this sesons gone. I think there could be a point with regards to how good our bench is but in terms of our squads, similair to what LB said, we have a fair few players who are miles ahead of anyone they have and maybe the value of this is being underestimated. I’ll just always remember of Robbie Keane playing for us before I worry about Tottenham or Villa finishing ahead of us. With Torres back we’ll finish in front of them with ease. Man City by all accounts will probably be at least as good as us and Arsenal by next summer but for the moment again, while it may not look it we simply have more quality walking out for us than they do.

I personally think that we should still be thinking about our team being comparable to Man Uniteds as much as anyone else’s. This is quite simplistic and a bit sad but I actually ranked our best 12 or 13 players alonside what I thought theres and Arsenals were and at almost every level it was difficult to tell apart who the best player was, and I think it’s quite telling. I know there are other factors which have plagued us in comparison to Man U and can accept and understand our league position but I’ll just say that I certainly don’t think that we have been overachieving. We have some very good resources which are there to be moulded and this should definitly be reflected after Rafa’s had a few months to make plans over the summer.

Lurgan I agree in principle with you. Why keep fresh for the World Cup? In fact I can see Benny, Johnson and Torres in great shape for their national sides. While we’ve not had their services for fucking ages.

I would put Torres on the bench because he simply cannot be match fit and I wouldn’t want to risk a very serious injury such as a 6 month job. I remember what happened to Michael Owen in 2006 world cup. I think it was that tournament. He wasn’t match fit at all and ended up fucking his knee pretty good. So I would start Torres when he’s had more training and his body is back up to strength. Same goes for Johnson. As for Benny well I’m not sure how long he’s been back in training.

One thing about the mancs this season is that while they have been vulnerable their best player has stepped up to the plate! Rooney has – what? 27 goals already? Probably a shit load of assists. He has avoided injury. Told England to fuck off when he was feeling a niggle and the mancs are smiling.

Our best players – well Torres is out more than he is in and Gerrard has been quite ordinary.

Liverpool’s confirmed team: Reina, Insua, Carragher, Skrtel, Agger, Lucas, Mascherano, Babel, Benayoun, Gerrard, Ngog.

Subs: Cavalieri, Aquilani, Torres, Aurelio, Kyrgiakos, Kuyt, Kelly.

Kuyt on the bench? That must be a misprint.

Half time 1-2, should be game over really.

Made up for Monster Masch, I think he has a great shot on him, just being unlucky in the past, hopefully this will be the start of many more to come!

Babel’s goal won’t do him any harm either!

Good result, wasn’t thrilled (again) with our attacking play but I’m gonna just blame the pitch and move on. Disappointing not to see Aquilani get any time on the pitch yet again. Genuinely wondering if Rafa actually rates his £20 player at this stage..

Happy days. Good away win. Two great goals and a long overdue gerrard goal. I’ll take it. Turns out I’m gonna get to the Blackburn game on Sunday just need to get a ticket. Fs or anyone tell me the best way to get a ticket for the kop please?? I no there’s tickets still available to buy but really want into the kop.

Even though Mellwood has a much better pitch Liverpool seemed to be playing a training ground game untill they scored.
What a goal by Babel how he controlled the ball was amazing and i loved Monsters goal which is only his second but doesn’t he love scoring.
Arthur Aquilani cost a bit more than £20 something like £17.5 million.
YNWA

A G P,
most of us knew that Aquilani would’nt be starting on THAT pitch i’ve seen better in our local sunday league, and yes it was a good result i was thrilled (again) as the win can only give the boys more confidence, oh and i hope none of our players come in here and read the comments as what little confidence some of them have this fuckin place will strip them of that as well.
Our little neighbours could’nt take the pace tonight so its goodnight from them.
YNWA.

Some good discussion lads.

Just regarding Tomkins and his articles he does tend to look at the wider picture and does put things in perspective.
He does back up his articles with logic and stats which is more than i can say for most of the press in Britain and Ireland.

LB summed up the discussion on the various squad strengths superbly.(Well done LB, hows the career change going btw!)

Professional performance tonight lads.Pitch was crap so it would effect any game.Job done out there and the good thing is we were able to see out the last 20 mins or so in a stroll which will be good for sunday.

I see the all merseyside final is down the swanny and Lille drew 1-1 away to fenerbache so we play them.

Result of the night has to go to fulham knocking out the holders Shaktar in the process.

It’s sometimes quite sad to see complaints like why isn’t our 20m (or 17m) player not playing, even after we’ve got a good away win in a European competition.

Ninja’s injury has forced Rafa to bring in Hercules. The other 2 substitutions (Kelly for Carra & Aurelio for Benny) bring in players who have been injured for a long time this season. A break is certainly good for Carra now, and Benny should be eased in after such a long injury layoff with the game essentially won.

Rafa has to balance the needs of ALL his good players, not just the expensive signings, but also the up and coming ones like Kelly, and the experienced ones like Aurelio. Another argument is given Hercules’ form before the suspension, why isn’t he starting in the Europa games instead of Ninja?

I hope I have illustrated the difficulty in balancing the squad. If you don’t like Rafa, you can always use any one of the sticks to hit him. It’s amazing no one praises Rafa for finally listening to them by giving Babel a full 90 minute run out….

The condition of the pitch is one reason I can think of for Aquaman’s no show. And since he has not really settled into the team, maybe games at Anfield are more suited for him at the moment. Remember that we’ve got him for 5 years, not 5 months, and taking a season to blend into the team is not really asking too much.

And like what FS has said a few blogs ago, Aquaman’s style is more a luxury for us at the moment, since our priority now is to tighten up the defence, and try to win with even sh*t on a stick football.

Besides, our best striker Torres didn’t even play, considering this is a team that has struggled to score more than 1 away goal for a couple of months until this game. Why don’t we give him a cameo to improve his match fitness in a game already won, given his currently (far) more importance to the team compared to Aquaman?

Again, it’s the same answer: Decisions. We as fans don’t have to answer for them, and have a wonderful ally known as hindsight.

I hope we see the big picture, what LB has been trying very hard to say in his last few posts, before we pass any judgment.

First reports are saying that Scary has a broken foot. Let’s hope this is not the case, since that will be him for the season.

Didn’t see the match but a 3-1 away win is not too shabby by any means. Lille next up, which is a few hours up the road for me. Happy days!

Great result tonight..didn’t get to see the game over here, but from the accounts in here the pitch was worse than Orrell Pleasure ( for you old folks). Made up that Masher got a goal he deserves on, he has being playing well of late.

Wise move by Rafa not to play Torres in those kind of conditions.Hopefully he will get the nod on Monday? Against Blackburn..

If not why not play Babel up front, give the lad a chance in his favoured position ?

Again great result tonight, to bad our neighbours couldn’t get a result,I would have liked to have seen us play each other in the Final.

Lille up next with the 2nd leg at Anfield.

I missed the game. Got dragged around the shops by my girlfriend after work

How did Babel play? Rafa said he is working hard and doing well in training. I saw the goal and it was classy. This was the first time he has started 2 games in succession in a year. Will he be rewarded with another start against Blackburn? Or will it be back to the bench or the stand?

Not sure LB about if Babel will start or not.

I have a feeling that FT might jump straight into the starting line up. Personally id give Ngog a nice rest and start Babel up front. Lets see if he shows some extra heart from the start.

Id like to see Kelly start aswell (ofcourse depending on fitness).

Considering Skrtel seems to be out for a while we need to ensure agger and jc start geling. I cant see hercules always playing cause he will be destroyed against a faster team/strikers.

Firstly, the journos in that press conference were a total disgrace, now they don’t even bother to pretend to ask questions about the night’s game itself, but went straight ahead with their personal attacks on Rafa.

Fortunately, Rafa was calm and graceful enough to turn the tables right back on them. A lesser man (like a certain Mr Ferguscum) would have gone into a tantrum already at those journos for daring to insult him.

A good performance by Rafa at the press conference coupled with a good performance by the team at the game. Never mind the usual zonal marking bullshit by these pundit clowns, when was the last time Liverpool have come back from behind to win a game?

And I think it’s been ages since Liverpool scored 3 goals or more. Last I remember was the 6-1 thrashing of Hull on early October, before all these fucking injuries screwed everything up.

BTW, Gerry, time for a new blog!

Read this

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1253761/Kop-Liverpool-legend-Craig-Johnston-blasts-selfish-John-Terry-Wayne-Bridges-England-exit.html

I echo his sentiments but that hardly matters today.

Guys Portsmouth officially enters administration – how will the table change?

Unfortunately, but predictably, the table will not change at all. They were not winded-up (because they claimed bankruptcy) and all remains as is.

it wont. they would have had to wind down for it to change. they get docked 9 points.

Lurgan – you got nothing better to do on a Friday afternoon than continuosly check the blog?

Abhishek,
wont make any difference as far as the table is concerned with them being bottom of the pile only that Pompey have now had an extra 9pts taken off them so relegation is a foregone conclusion, why they deduct points from clubs that are in deep shit to begin with is beyond me, it’s not as though it will help them pay their debts far from it, Pompey had more chance to straighten themselves out in the Prem than the championship and ultimately division 1.
Chester city owe the tax man a couple of million £ so they relegate them into the conference, they are still in financial trouble so what do they do deduct more points from them so that now they are bottom of conference table with a points haul of -3, baffling.

What it means is they now know they’re going down so won’t give a shite, but when they had a chance they fought tooth and nail for all their points i.e. against Liverpool. Whoever they play now will they give 100%, I don’t think so

Confirmed broken (metatasal) foot for Skrtel.

Sigh!

FT won’t start against Blackburn. I reckon he’ll be given 15-20 in this game, like at Man.City.

Some time ago, I said that Babel should be given a run of 10 games or so to get him going, continuity breeding success and all that.

Some of you in here though I was “barking” for suggesting such a thing. I hope he plays against Blackburn, and then against Wigan and then against Lille and Portsmouth and then Lille and the Mancs. Just think, he could be on fire by then!

STR, how do you that FT will not start. Gut feeling or some other info that I’ve not seen.

Personally, my gut feeling is that FT will start this weekend, especially considering the pitch yesterday, there could be some tired legs.

Plus Rafa said that he was looking sharp in training. Here’s hoping anyhow.

bhavster, I have better/more important things to do on a Friday afternoon but I find talking about LFC more interesting. Sad individuals that we are

Lurgan, I don’t have any information on FT not starting on Sunday, it’s just that I feel that Rafa won’t rush him back. Rafa rarely makes substitutions before the hour (unless enforced) and I don’t think he will be expecting FT to get through an hour just yet, that’s all.

I think by the time we play Lille in Lille on 11th March, Torres may well be able to start then.

I would guess (all being well) Torres should be able to start and finish against the Mancs on 21st March. And score again, hopefully.

Great win by Liverpool, was it the early goal against that got us ticking over, showed some real urgency after that. Good result all round, dreadful pitch, looked terrible. Sad for Ninja Turtle but thats his tough type game, he’ll be back.

Fat Sam back to his rubbish.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/feb/27/sam-allardyce-rafael-benitez?

Let’s hope we give them a good thrashing with the Spitter red carded in the process

Even though I may consider it somewhat understable that dear old Sam doesn’t like Rafa I still can’t help hating that fat walrus-faced bastard. A couple a seasons ago there was some stupid so called Liverpool supporter who argued for us sacking Rafa to bring in Fat Sam. I don’t consider Allardyce a useless manager; in spite of the fact that British managers have a far easier time proving themselves in the Premier League than foreigners, it still takes some brains to last (no matter how much reason Sam gives us to doubt it). Still, I think favoring Mr. Walrus ahead of Rafa might well be one of the worst insults of Rafa’s intelligence I’ve ever encountered, and there are many to pick from.

Can’t wait to see Sam’s face going from angry to vacant as we destroy his team on Sunday. I’m expecting Torres to come in from the bench the last 20 minutes or so, finishing them off. No need to rush him back. It will be interesting to see if Aquilani makes the starting lineup. I seem to recall him getting frustrated back in Roma when he was left out of the team despite being fit, though not sure to what extent. Haven’t seen any signs of that since he joined the reds though, thankfully. I think we all have to be a little patient with Alberto. Probably won’t see the best of him until next season, possibly at the very end of this season if we can get close to the form we were in last spring. I just hope he will have the patience necessary.

great win for the lads, especially babel who finally seems to be pumped up for the cause and playing for the win, not just the personal performance. agree with the commentators that we started at too pedestrian a pace and should have started the game much faster (does everyone get chris waddle’s grammatically challenged punditry or is that just australasian espn?). the shite all the pundits spout about zonal marking does my head in though, and on this point i’m with our man tomkins 100%. before yesterday’s game i’ve felt fully relaxed for every corner and free kick we’ve faced for the last month or so. admittedly we defended them pretty badly yesterday, but we’re definitely back to our old selves and i’d choose rafa’s zonal system and pepe’s record number of clean sheets any day of the week. how pundits can ignore rafa’s incredible defensive record since he took charge is beyond me.

agree with maccyd #233 that we should really be comparing our team with the scum rather than villa and spurs. last term we outplayed them all season long, despite finishing behind them, and they haven’t improved their team this year. frankly they’ve looked rubbish and it’s only their winning habit and rooney that’s kept them from having a season like ours. and they’ve still managed to lose 6 games. they’ve had a few injuries at the back, but nothing like us. now that we’ve got everyone back (except skerts – bah! he’s been looking fantastic lately), i want to see us finishing the season stronger than utd, fuck villa!

so how do we do it? the general theme around here seems to be that we battle our way to 4th place and throw any notions of attractive football out the window. i’ve got to disagree. we’ve got the players and the manager to outplay any team in europe. liverpool and barca stood out last year as by far the best ‘possession teams’ in europe. like barca, we almost always dominated possession, controlled the pace and tempo of our games, and had an air of composure about us that made every opponent look like flustered fools. this is what we’ve got that villa, city and spurs don’t, and i want to see it back. 4-0 wins, comfortable 2-0 wins. we should be looking to outplay our opponents, not scrap out results. we can do it. we have done it with this team. it’s the liverpool way. the time for excuses and rose-coloured glasses on mediocre performances is over. now that the injury crisis is past, this team needs to start playing like it can – the best team in the country.

i reckon the way to take 4th is to put the best players on the pitch, score a lot of goals and play the expansive, creative, attacking football that destroyed everyone last year. i realise this is risky and a far safer approach is the conservative grind-out-results style that’s worked for us lately, but this is just bringing us down to the level of our rivals and i personally believe we’re better than that.

for a while now i’ve been calling for aquilani to come in for lucas in order to give the team more creativity and more control of possession. i’m not so sure about that now because i haven’t seen enough of aqua to know if he can really do that job, so i’ll put my faith in rafa to select the right team, just so long as he has it in mind to outplay opponents, not just hold them out. we are LFC! we are NOT mid-table grinders who seek primarily to stifle the opposition and secondly to sneak goals. i’d still (as i’ve been saying all season) be in favour of pulling stevie back to control the centre of the park with masch and playing yossi behind torres. no disrespect to lucas. he’s played well but he ain’t no steven gerrard.

that’s just my opinion, and previously my calls for ‘champagne football’ have been shot down as impractical. what do you reckon? now that yossi, torres and stevie are back together, let’s bring back the pleasure in watching our mighty mighty lfc and win games not only on the score board, but on the pitch as well.

It will certainly be hard Sambo to reach the hieghts of last seasons performance.Saying that we can improve the way we play going forward now we`ve sorted ourselves out at the back.

The return of benny,Torres and soon Johnson will add a new dimensionb to our play n0o doubt about that.The thing is pal this isn`t FIFA10 so it will take a few games for these three very important players to get up to speed.

I`m confident we can do them tomorrow.I see Fat Sam is at it again.The sad oul cunt is just looking for attention again and there`s no better way to get attention from the press than slagging off Rafa.He`s best ignored i`m sure Rafa will ignore him.

I,like everyone else would like to see torres start tomorrow but if Rafa decides different,then i`ll understand.
My team would be…

Reina
Carra,Kerry Argos,Agger,Insua
mash,lucas
Babel,gerrard,benny
Kuyt.

I feel N`gog could do with a rest and Babel has earned a chance to keep his spot.