It is my first time to comment as a first person, as a result I feel it is time for Liverpool to Play some football, and today we will witness it. The players have this debt to pay to us (Liverpool Fans), and I am sure it high time they do that even though it is almost too late.

Ace blog as usual Gerry. Never liked Mondays games! Particularly us here in Asia where kick-off is at 4am. Anyway, am expecting a tough fight from Wigan and will be going for a 2-1 win too for us! Cmon you redmen….

Ace blog as usual Gerry. Never liked Mondays games! Particularly us here in Malaysia where kick-off is at 4am. Anyway, am expecting a tough fight from Wigan and will be going for a 2-1 win too for us! Cmon you redmen….

Very good article Gerry – i actually can’t remember the last time we actually one of those dreaded Monday night football matches but here’s hoping we can tonight.

Also good to see you touch on the whole Aquilani issue – I see Rafa spoke about it on Friday himself and although I can kinda see why he’s doing what he’s doing – it can’t be very good for Aqua’s confidence. Anyway I’d love to see him get a start and maybe score tonight – would do him the world of good

“last time we actually WON one of those…”

Gerry can we get an edit button for posts please?

2-0 to the Reds.No need to play 2 holding midfielders, either now or never for Aquilani.Gerrard 24 and Torres 56.Villa and Cita are building momentum, no excuses, Wigan are in the bottom quarter of the table for a reason.

Good blog Ger. I hate Monday games too. Gotta dodge the boss all day so I can clear off early and then make up some clearly fake excuse for it tomorrow! If Johnson cant go I hope its Pepe, JC, Dagger, Skertl, Insua, Benny, Masch, Stevie, Maxi and Aquilani behind Torres. Hopefully we get an early goal and this wont be a sweat. 2-0 methinks.

Great post Gerry!
Digger, I think ‘Skertl’ is injured – out until the end of April. Otherwise, wouldn’t mind seeing that side starting, with one of the yougsters at RB and JC alongside Dagger. Saying that, wouldn’t mind seeing the trusted Lucas/Monster combo with Gerrard behind Torres & see if that partnership will work for the rest of the season. Hope to see Aqua for at least 20 mins though.

Nice post Gerry,
dont know if any of you lads have seen the dvd FIFTEEN MINUTES THAT SHOOK THE WORLD watched it last night and pissed myself laughing( i think FS directed it ), its really really funny especially the everton boozer called the Bitters and twisted arms see them all staggering out at full time throwing up all over the place after that miraculous comeback, and the guy who played the tramp is fuckin stupendous, if none of you have seen it get it as soon as you can it’s very very funny.
FS forgot to tell you that when i was out on saturday night i had the misfortune of talking to a mates cousin who is supposed to be a Reds fan, and he stated that “he fuckin hated Benitez” i said “so what he done in istanbul counts for nothing” he replied “that was a fuckin fluke” i shook my head i asked Chambo if his relative was real and he just looked embarrassed, he reminded me of some people in here
3-1 for the Red boys tonight.
YNWA.

Shite, forgot about that, thanks Rafa. Time for Nick the Greek to step back up to the plate I guess.

It’s very rare I disagree with you Gerry. But I’m sorry I have to on this one…
As Rafa said… Aquilani was bought for the next five years, not the next five games.

I’ve got to keep this brief, and I’ll go into what I see in him as a player and where he’ll fit into our team/system in another post.

But as for why he hasn’t been played much of a part so far…
1: The injury was far more complicated than the medics knew. So, he took far longer to recover and reach any sort of fitness.
2: Fitness is not, Match Fitness. Some of the paddy fields we have played on during the winter could have set him back again.
In fact, I found it rather bizzare that he played three quarters of the game on that bog in Bucharest. But I also don’t know the reasons behind this, so I can’t really comment.
3: By the time the lad had reached any semblance of match fitness, our season had unravelled so badly that we had needed to revert to basics. Which meant the last thing we needed in the team at that time was a player of Aquilani’s type.

However, this will not always be the case.

4: LFC buying an expensive player and bedding them in slowly is not a new phenomenon. We all know (Or we should) the case of the great Ray Kennedy… Who by the way was also questioned by LFC fans when he first appeared. Same happened with our old friend Jan Molby. He could barely get a game at the start of his LFC career. And although “Supporters,” didn’t boo or slate our players then, there was plenty of moans in the pubs of Liverpool about the lad. But this situation happened with many players over the years at LFC. What has changed? Nothing but the “Supporters attitude actually. It’s just today’s need/want for instant gratification.

The player I like to use as an example of this is Alex Lindsey. Many younger lads won’t remember him. But like Ray Kennedy, he was a centre forward when we bought him. Nobody seen him for ages, and because their wasn’t the sort of expectation’s we have today, the lad was practically forgotten… only to reappear a long time later as one of the best attacking full backs we have ever had.

I expect the likes of BM to say it’s tonight or never. (Oh dear, there I go being a bully again). But Gerry, my friend, I’ll have a little wager with you… Aquilani will eventually go on to become a great player for LFC and add a dimension to our mid-field that we haven’t had since the days of Terry McDermott.

Of course, there are no guarantees. Italians do seem to have a hard time adjusting to English football. We have only just witnessed that with Dosenna – who certainly wasn’t the shit on a stick some made him out to be. But if I had to have a bet on this, I wouldn’t put my house on it, but I would risk a bit on the lad becoming an excellent player for us in the very near future.

As for tonight’s game, sadly I couldn’t go. Things happen. And I don’t like to forecast teams or formations, but I do see us getting another tricky win… Wigan always give us a hard game.

And it seems Skrtles broken foot has already been forgotten, but… oh well, that’s the memories of armchair football managers eh.

As for Monday night games…
I think the last one we won was played with the head of a foriegn invader from the next village. But I’ll dig up the actual answer and results when I have some time later.

Yeah, Red. 15 minutes is very funny. Hate to drop names, but Drew Schofield is an aul mate of mine. I haven’t seen him in years, but he’s a cracking lad. I love to see him getting some success. He worked very hard to get where he is… and the funny thing is, that’s still in Kirkby in the same aul house, in the same aul street, drinking in the same aul pub, with the same aul mates. Good lad, Drew.

As for the Rafa haters mate, what can I say. It shocked and made me angry at first. Now I just dispair.

PS: Lurgan mate, thats a link quite a few could do with reading.

if skyrtl doesn’t play tonight Rafa has to go!! Skyrtl is just the type of player we need in tonights game! what’s that? he’s injured? oh err… well who’s playing in his place then Franco Baresi? what do you mean he’s never played for Liverpool and he retired years ago?…

FS: I’m with you on the Aquilani issue. If Rafa didn’t rate him would he have bought a crocked player? Read what Rafa has said about Aquilani…

I think he’ll be a great player for us fitness permitting. He’s the type of player for unlocking the bus parkers.

Ah well, what can you do lad. But don’t start that off again, mate. It’s a fresh blog. Let’s at least get the game out the way before it degenerates to the usual nonsense.

Lol! Jeez Kenny it slipped my mind what can I say?! Cut me some slack man! Kyrgiakos will do fine, hope he picks up right where he left off.

Got a minute here, so I’m going to write down some thoughts on Aquilani. So, in advance, a quick sorry if I miss some comments while I’m writing and so seem to be having a go at anyone. I’m not. Right, that out the way, I’ll say what I think and post it in a moment….

Okay, first off, I think it’s quite right that people question the signing of this lad and why he hasn’t played. 20 million is a major signing for us.

But here’s a thought…
I forget the actual amount of games he has to play in to trigger the next round of payments on his fee, but I know if he plays many more it will trigger the payments.

I’m not saying this is the definite cause why he hasn’t played more games, but when you think of the meagre funds we will probably have in the summer for new transfers, it must have some bearing on the situation.

To my knowledge, up to know, the lad has cost us 4 million quid – about what we would have paid had we taken him on lone for the season. And also about the same amount of money it cost us to have Robbie Keane for the period he was here.

So, if Rafa has no decided the lad doesn’t fit into our system, and does sell him, it’s not that much damage done. However, I can imagine the flak Rafa will take if this does happen.

As for the question of the lad’s ability… well, I think we have to look no further than what Gerrard had to say on the lad. Steven, as we all know, doesn’t give praise easily and he has stated on several occasions that this boy can play.

But I prefer to go on the little I have seen with my own eyes.

As I said in a previous post, #11, I was quite surprised to see him play near a full game in Romania. The pitch was an absolute paddy feild, and I honestly worried about the kid re-injuring himself. However, Unirea were not in any way a physical side. In fact, they played some decent football. And, therefore, I’m pretty sure Rafa reckoned it was a good game to give the lad a full run out against a European side in the sort of game he could handle at his level of fitness.

I’d have also liked to have seen him play in more games against other footballing sides. But as I say, finances and the our league position didn’t help. Arsenal would be a great team for him to play against, but when your desperately chasing points, it’s not the game to throw a new player into.

But having said that, please don’t think I’m saying the lad can’t play against physical teams… He’s an established star of Seria A. That is not a league for wimps. I’m sure he’s been kicked to shit and handled it. And I’m sure he will be able to cope here too.

As for his style of play, like I said, from the little I have seen, the player he most reminds me of is Terry McDermott.

But a mate of mine has just came to the house, so I will have to leave it at that for now and I’ll come back to it when I have time.

Oh and PS… I don’t want to panic monger, but I’ve heard some very disturbing rumours about Bennayoun. I hear he has requested a move to Russia in the summer.

Aquilani to fit into that role if Benny goes?
I don’t know, but I think Rafa has Aquilani marked down as the Desquilabrante that he has been searching for.

Got to go.

Your right about Monday nights Gerry i reckon its because most of them are played in winter. Tonight its going to be freezing which doessnt help when most of the team come from warmer climates and the chance of picking up a strain in the cold is increased.
I can see a nice win for us but as always Wigan can be dangerous after all they beat Chelsea who are top of the Prem for a reason ( BM ).
Digger while not wanting to rake over old ground i notice you didn’t answer my questions @ 291 on the last blog
BTW Not winning the league for 20 years may leave you crying and moaning and looking for excuses ( all of yesterday apparently ) but 20 years is long enough to get used to it and to notice certain patterns emerging regarding the FA and any bias.
The really strange thing is,you say Rafa was right when he touched upon the subject in the Facts speech.
YNWA .

Rome I dident want to rake over old ground either so I just left it, new blog and all. We’d both said our bit so I left it at that but since you insist; Dident see the league cup final, and its certainly plausible that a better atmosphere would’ve been more conducive to a positive result in those 2 games but as I pointed out I feel we had bigger and more pertinent problems than that. Certainly ones which were in our control. I know you dont agree Rome, fair enough. We’ll leave it there mate?

Digger
Vidick did one of his rugby tackles 4 mins into the game penalty awarded no card the rules say he’s off, but its the Mancs isn’t it and Slur Alex wants another trophy. So is that bias.
I know you watched the Blackburn game so do you think the ref was bias against us?

FS in an surprised about Benayoun about had had signed a contract about on this year.
Gerry,I don’t like Minday don’t games either except it’s Xmas ot New Year.
ManUre nearly always get the rub of the green from the referees. One referee (of forget his name now) get them a hard time and never played another United game.
I think they should use women refs, they are sticklers when it come to rules.

Right, Aquilani compared to McDermott…

Terry Mc, was one of those players, like Kennedy, Lindsey, Molby, etc, who took time to settle in at LFC. In fact, it took him a couple of seasons. He’d get a little run of games, do some good stuff and get dropped… Babel anybody?

Anyway, once he did settle, what a player he became.

I think the problem with Mc was, despite his ability – and he really was a very classy footballer – nobody in the side knew how to play with him.

I think what helped establish him was having Souness by his side. Yep. Prick of a man, but some player and I’m sure I could have played in our mid-field with Souey next to me.

But anyway, once Mc became established , he scored some fantastic goals for Liverpool… one of which Bob Paisley said, was the greatest goal he’d ever seen.
And Bob wasn’t that bad a judge.

But it wasn’t just his goals, it was his vision, his technique, his eye for a pass and the talent to deliver it, that made him such a great footballer.

Put his name into Youtube, sit and enjoy some of his goals, but watch how he moves (his gait), and how he actually plays the game… I swear to God, at me first seeing of Aquilani, I got onto an old friend of mine, a lifelong Kopite in his late 50′s, who’s knowledge and opinion, I value and I asked him what he thought about the kid…
He was, well, let’s say, enthusiastic. And I was about to ask him if the lad reminded him of anyone but he beat me to the punch and asked me. I just said, I thought I’d seen a ghost mate… The run on him, the stance, the build, the touch, everything about him reminds me of one fella.

I am not making this up or lying… The lad said to me, “I know, (A few expletives)he’s Terry Mc, isn’t he.”

Anyway, after taking so long to settle in, Terry became the first player to ever win the Football Writers’ and the Player’s Player of the year awards in the same season.

I can remember Bob Paisley’s smile when it happened. Terry was one of Bob’s first signings when he took over from Shanks, and yes… we had some people judging Bob back then sort of how the judge Rafa but without the sheer stupidity and nastiness.

The thing I think that took so long to adjust was not Terry Mc… it was his team mates. I see the same problem with Aquilani at the moment.

Mc would knock the ball first time into space, and even the famous pass and move side of the time ended up making the pass look like a ball wasted. When in all truth, nobody had had the vision to get onto the ball.

Eventually though, when they all became accustomed to each other. Terry Mc established himself as one of the most creative midfielders we’ve ever had. His passing became the stuff of legends, but it’s probably the goals he most remembered for…
Surely we have all seen the final goal against Tottenham when we slammed them 7 – 0. If not, go check it out… watch McDermott’s part in it. Study it.

That is a bit of what I see in Aquilani. Of course that’s far too much praise at this stage of the lad’s LFC career. That’s why I’ve only alluded to this before but steered clear of saying it. And of course, it’s not time to judge yet.

But I can see Aquilani having the ability, technique and style to bring this sort of game back to LFC.

Terry Mc had a fantastic ability to run from deep, most of the time un-detected, and end up in the enemies box, finishing what had started. And once the other lads around him were used to his style, he constantly “Ghosted” into the enemies box and either finished the move or applied the final killer ball for a team mate to score from.

At his peak, it seemed like nobody else ever won the player of the year or scored the goal of the season. In reality he couldn’t have won both awards as often as it seems. I’ll have to check.
But it honestly felt like they should have just given it to him at the beginning of the season and get it over and done with.

On top of all that, his long-range shooting was fantastic. He could clatter them in from miles out. But it was his cheeky mad chips from impossible angles and distances that people really remember.

Go onto Youtube, and put in… FA Cup semi-final replay with Everton, 1977.

Get on his goal in that game… Unbelievabley cheeky and classy.

Anyway, I could go on about Terry Mc all day. I used to actually go with sister, and she gave me my first ever FA Cup Final ticket that she got from Terry… He played for Newcastle then and joined us not long after that game. So did Alan Kennedy… funnily enough another fella, like Terry Mc, who scored the winner for us in a European Cup Final.

So, as I said, it’s obviously far too early to give Aquilani that sort of praise. But rather than discard him, I live in hope. And if he turns into half the player Mc was, we are in for some special treats in the seasons ahead.

Jack Sir, I certainly hope it’s not true. And one of the things that has me doubting it is the fact that Yossi has only recently signed his new contract.

I only mentioned it because if we do lose Benny it will be a big blow to our midfield creativity and the player I see filling that gap (God forbid it should actually happen) is Aquilani.

Yeah he was a joker Rome, no doubt. Chimbonda should have gone and the French lad who Chuck Norris-ed Lucas! But an incompetent ref an FA conspiracy does not make. Look through any teams blog after a loss or when they’ve been jipped by a ref and its the classic ‘we wuz robbed!’ conspiracy theories everywhere. Yes decisions have gone against us Rome but its the same for every team. As I’ve said my outlook is different than yours: 1 thing the refs can never take from us is those 90mins 38 times a yr. Ok mate?

Digger
So the refs in question were bias, over the last 20 years ive noticed it rarely evens itself out for any team other than MUFA who are always getting the favours and if they dont the ref gets f*cked off sharpish.

Not sure I go along with the notion that the refs are biased against us. Certainly we have had some dodgy decisions go against us this season. The level of refereeing at the moment is very poor I think. Decisions have gone for us as well although not this season. I remember in the CL a few years ago against Roma at Anfield when the ref pointed to the penalty spot, the Kop roared and then he seemed to shit himself, changed his mind and give a corner instead. We played against 10 men quite a few times last season and the year before in the CL I remember a few red cards that made life easier for us.

Big successful clubs tend to get favourable decisions especially at home or in a big game like a cup final.

I dont think we blew the league title last season. I think the mancs form in the run in was just too good for us. They got 90 points which is a fantastic total. They often played after we’d won and put pressure on them and they always won their match anyway. There were a number of games where I was sure the mancs had dropped points. Such as Villa at Old Trafford where Macheda curled one into the corner. Also when the mancs played Wigan away and Tevez and Carrick scored late goals to win the game for them. Neither the ref or the FA put those balls into the top corner.

What Rafa said about Taggart was 100% true but I do think it motivated the mancs. I don’t think he should have said that the mancs were scared that we were top. Similarly to when he called Drogba a diver. Again – its 100% true but it motivated Drogba to have his best performance of the season and knock us out of the CL.
These statements have no impact on our own performance though.

Last season the players cacked it a bit in January. After beating Newcastle 5-1 we were awful at Stoke and totally bottled it at Anfield against Everton in the 2nd half. By then we went to Wigan and I think the pressure had a hold of us. Those 3 draws were costly.

As for Aquilani there are a few reasons as to why he has had so little action. In my opinion.
1. He was out injured for 6 months.
2. We had been conceding goals like water and we just couldn’t risk a flair player in the middle of the park who was not match fit or accustomed to the English game.
3. Rafa is rather cautious when it comes to managing player’s injury. I get frustrated with this at times but then I also think its admirable that he looks after the long term health of his players. Rush a player back and he can get the really bad injury like the 6 month lay-off Aquilani had when Roma seemingly rushed him back.

I very much doubt Rafa is doubting the quality of Aquilani. Its very different to the Keane situation.

Going forward it will be very interesting to see what happens. We find ourselves in a similar situation to this time last year. Whereas last year we had to win all of our matches to finish 1st. This year we have to win all of our matches to guarantee 4th. So with this in mind will the Lucas and Masch partnership continue? This combination doesn’t create many chances away from home especially if Gerrard and Torres are not firing on all cylinders.

for me Rafa’s comments on Slur Alex was a way to divert attention from Gerrard – have you guys forgotten the media circus after the club brawl? suddenly people forgot abt that and started having a right go at rafa’s rant.

i cant think of no other reason. except of course that Rafa is an idiot. Which is the starting assumption of some bloggers anyway.

YNWA

LB: Domination buys an awful lot of respect. It’s natural. We enjoyed it throughout the glory years. However there is one huge difference…
Mr. Ferguson and his tactics.

I know you know full well what he does and what tactics he uses to intimidate. So, the question is why is he allowed to get away with his rather dispicable manouvers?

Why are the FA so scared to tackle the disgraceful old duffer?

As Jack pointed out…. even in the choice of referees Ferguson gets what he wants.

How can anyone forget his team chasing Andy Dursow all over the pitch, screaming at him and phyisically threatening him for having the audacity to award a penalty against them at Old Toilet… the first one that had been awarded in how many years?

I have a feeling it was 3 but it could have been more.

And how can anybody ever doubt “Fergie Time?”

Yes the players scored, but why are they awarded the mystery minutes when they are behind but on top, and yet the game magically stops when they are ahead and the game is going against them?

The we have the teams who throw in the towel on a regular basis… A lot of these are usually managed by ex-Mr Ferguson players. But how many just decide to lay down when in all reality the Mancs could have been at least challenged, if not taken?

The perfect example of this is Fulham last season…
Do you remember the disgraceful statement made by Hodgson before they played? And yes, his players then simply done as he said…. never bothered to even try as they expected to get beat anyway.

To his credit (Sort of) Hodgeson was shamed by what happened and so set about Man U – in the manner Rafa told all the teams how to do, after we battered them – and Fulham duly won the game.

I honestly think you have that one wrong LB… The Mancs didn’t outplay us in the run in. Instead of carrying on in that vein and having a go when they was clearly wobbling, teams reverted to form and started to hand over the points.

As for Macheda, do you remember they were about to drop two points at Hull? But in Fergie time, the ball actually hit him on the foot and span off in a spectacular fashion only to land in the net.

Of course the media hailed the new wonder kid, and said it was a deliberately hit ball… Where is the wonder kind nowadays?

Seems he wasn’t quite the revelation Mr Ferguson was hailed for finding.

Then of course there was the Tottenham and Villa games… both teams well on their way to victory. Both teams well ahead and pressing for more goals. Only to mystically and magically sit back and snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, after the half time talk – from managers who both hate LFC and Rafa, both sycophants of Mr Ferguson.

Funny old game, eh.

Bhavster you are bang on there, but Rafa not only took the pressure off Gerrard he took it off the whole team.

I’m sure Carra’s remarks on this are still available somewhere on the net. And though I don’t remember them verbatim, I know exactly what he said…
He praised Rafa for taking the pressure and said the team had let him and themselves down.

But you know what… I don’t even know why I’m bothering to comment. As LFC fans, who spend so much of our time discussing all this, we should all be aware of these things anyway.

Fair enough Rome, we’ll leave it there so as its almost game time and time for me to execute my escape from sector 7G before ol man Burns does his rounds! Good post LB as ever. Enjoy the match lads!

I’m going for a bath, getting dressed and then off up the pub to watch the game with an old friend. So this is the last from me on this subject…
Go on to youtube and put in Fergie time for the Manchester Derby.

Surely people in here can’t forget what happened?
But even if you remember it anyway, put it in and watch Mr Ferguson with the 4th official….
I haven’t seen it since the incident. But I’m sure it must be on Youtube… He approaches the 4th official as he is about to hold up the board, after some rather heated words, in which he clearly calls the 4th official a Cunt, the board belatedly goes up with a new time on it….
UNTIL UNITED SCORE.

And when they duly do score, Mr Ferguson then goes back to the 4th official, all smiles and actually pats him on the head – right under the nose of Mark Hughes who is clearly fuming but doesn’t say anything against his old master.

Well, to the best of my knowledge, when I last looked, the referees are employed by the FA. However, of course none of this indicates that Mr Ferguson rides roughshod over the FA.

I honestly do dispair at times.

FS – Graeme Sourness was indeed a great player but I wouldn’t be giving him any credit for Terry Mac, as I seem to remember he was doing his stuff before he arrived. I think it was his super goal against Spurs in the FA Cup (quarter-final I think) that had Sir Bob beaming, I think it was the only goal of the game but what a cracker.
As regards Aquilani, I think he has the makings of being a great player for us. I hadn’t read Rafa’s comments about him before writing the blog but they make things a little clearer. The bottomline is, I just want to see the lad play.
As regards some of the comments about last season, I think you can always pick things apart in hindsight but that’s pretty pointless. At the end of the day we amassed a record number of points that would have been enough to win it in some previous seasons, but it wasn’t enough so no complaints we gave it our best shot.

FS, I will concede to the ‘Fergie time’ he clearly intimidates the officials with his watch pointing and goings on, on the sideline. He does put refs under pressure.

I remember the lucky Marcheda goal but that’s football especially when you spend a lot of time in the other teams penalty area. By the way Marcheda has been injured which is why you haven’t heard much from him this season.

Spurs and Villa, they did what teams usually do against big sides when leading at half time. They suddenly realise they have something to lose and they cack themselves. Sit back and try to defend the result. It’s psychological. I remember us doing the same against Barca at Anfield a couple of years ago. Against Juve as well. Fly out of the traps – all over more illustrious opposition. Then all of a sudden the more talented team makes a couple of good moves and then comes the “oh shit” moment and we sit back. I don’t think Martin O’Neil or Redknapp told their players not to try and win in the 2nd half. Why go 2-0 up in the first place?

What teams do at Old Trafford (sit back and defend) is exactly what we used to do prior to last season. We were often guilty of being afraid to attack them. Why? Well I doubt it was because Rafa or Houllier said to the players that we can’t win. But psychologically the players believed they were not as good as the mancs and played with fear. In in a couple of 1-0 wins we had our backs to the wall and nicked a goal from a set piece. I remember many gutless performances by us at Old Toilet. Last season was different. We had to win – a draw was no good. We had just slaughtered Real Madrid and the lads were confident. They believed they could beat the mancs. Not nick a result. Beat them. Not many teams believe they can beat the mancs at Old Toilet. Even when leading at half time.

So yes I agree that teams often throw in the towel against the mancs. However we have been one of those teams on many occasions which is why I am reluctant to point accusing fingers at teams who play against them. With the exception of Wolves this season that is. That was a disgrace.

It’s worth considering that the mancs have built this reputation from being successful. They have earned it. I’m talking from the point of view of teams thinking they have already lost before the first whistle. I am sure teams didn’t have that mindset in the 70s and 80s. Back then I bet teams came to Anfield with the mindset of having already lost and went to Old Trafford with a belief they’d get a result.

Gerry mate, I thought it was the goal against Spurs in the 7 nil hiding. But you could well be right. That was indeed a great goal. What I do remember well is the look on Bob’s face when Terry came through. Not smug, just a humble bit of gratitude.

What a great man Bob was. Do you know he could tell what injury a player had just from looking at him. And he could see where the player may have problems just by the way he walked and held himself.

A gentle humble genius of a man, with a will of iron.

Anyway, I’m nicely descaled, so it’s off the pub.
Tatty bye.

PS, I only recently seen some old film of Terry Mc getting the PFA player of the year award (I think it was that one) off Gerrald Sinstadt.

I’ll try to dig it up. Dead funny… Terry was honestly wondering how he was going to fit it on his mam’s living room cabinet in Kirkby.

The big time, eh.

No time to read all the comments as yet but wanted to post the teamsheets for tonight.

Wigan: Kirkland, Boyce, Caldwell, Bramble, Figueroa, Diame, McCarthy, N’Zogbia, Scharner, Rodallega, Moreno.
Subs: Stojkovic, Amaya, Thomas, Scotland, Moses, Gomez, Sinclair.

Liverpool: Reina, Mascherano, Carragher, Kyrgiakos, Insua, Lucas, Gerrard, Maxi, Kuyt, Benayoun, Torres.
Subs: Cavalieri, Johnson, Aquilani, Agger, Riera, Babel, Ngog.

Presumably Masch will be at RB with Gerrard alongside Lucas. Maybe Maxi on the left with the onion fella just behind Torres.

All will become clear very soon.

Come on you red men!

Absolutely dreadful.

I always crack my head because I believe in the conspiracy theories. I hate to bring this up, but how else would one explain the bizarre and unbelieveable decisions made by the refs in the EPL? Either something is influencing these decisions or the quality of some of the refs in the EPL sucks so bad that these refs shouldn’t be officiating the games.

It is difficult for me not to be a believer of conspiracy after going through what I have. Around two decades ago, more than 200 players in our league here were banned because of match-fixing/bribery. And when I read something like this once reported in the Telegraph: The American journal Foreign Policy estimated the entire Asian gambling industry, both legal and illegal, at $450 billion a year.

And gambling is okay if it were not thriving to influence league games all over the world. For example: “In February 1999 a Malaysian-based betting syndicate was caught attempting to install a remote-control device to sabotage the floodlights at English Premier League team Charlton Athletic’s ground with the aid of a corrupt security officer. If the match had been abandoned after half-time, then the result and bets would have stood. Subsequent investigations showed that the gang had been responsible for previously unsuspected “floodlight failures” at West Ham’s ground in November 1997, and again a month later at Crystal Palace’s ground during a home match of Palace’s groundsharing tenant Wimbledon.” (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Match_fixing)

Read some of them:
ttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/premierleague/3224065/Match-fixing-Premier-League-footballs-dark-and-dangerous-side-Football.html

ttp://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=522647&cc=4716

ttp://blogs.forbes.com/sportsmoney/2009/11/a-massive-new-match-fixing-scandal-rocks-european-soccer/

As it can been seen, some of the reports (probably from people like me)state the many leagues from around the world that are allegedly involved in this corruption, but we rarely hear the outcome after the so-called investigations.

I am not saying outrightly that the EPL is corrupted. And I always welcome some controversies since that is an element that we all crave for in the game, although too much of it kills the game I suppose. But it is difficult for someone not to entertain the accusations of a match being fixed/favouritism when confronted with a mind-boggling decision, especially when we hear about all the money involved and the history of match-fixing scandals.

I only wished that there were a simpler explanation to the bizarre decisions in the EPL, like a simple fact that some refs are not fit to officiate the game. And if that were the case, why isn’t the FA or FIFA doing something about it? And if they are aware of the shortcomings of the refs, then their not taking any action in itself is a corruption, no? And whenever I think of the word ‘favouritism’, Taggart comes to mind always..100% of the times.

Is deadful was,I shouted at the Tv set.
Nil- 1 down.
They have got to at 2.\

Now I must get this book:

http://www.empireofthekop.com/anfield/?p=11826

Great support, shame about the performance so far. I have a feeling there is going to be a sting in this one tho’. Come on ye redmen … dig it out.

Painful to watch…dirk especially is not his usual self. 20mins to go…c’mon u redmen!

well that was poor!!!

The Reds are absolutle terribly-even Rafa if a rabbit in the headlight.
1-0 FT

How painful was it to watch that dross?

Shite performance, shite result, sack Rafa!

On a positive note, it looks like we won’t be distracted by European football next season.

Waited and waited for the equaliser..monday night games suck! Although it was good to see Aquilani on the pitch, classy lad. Put the wigans side on the defensive once he came in and Mascha was pushed to the middle. Gerrard had a poor game, not fit I guess.

cant find the cat, so i’m gonna have to go next door and kick theirs!

dont worry, they’re blue noses

We obviously had a problem defensively which rafa addressed.He now needs to sort out our problems offensively.We need to get out of this bunker mentality and start ripping into teams.I can understand our pragmatic approach to games against the big teams.But against the minnows we need to go for the throat from the off we have the players to do this if we had two dangerous players upfront with pace to burn tonight like torres and babel you surely make the likes of wigan apprehensive.Which in turn will make them retire into there shells.And then we can batter them into submission.You have to sap the confidence of these teams and then duff them up.We seem to show too much respect to little teams.And build them up so they can knock us down.We need to play expansive football against the plebs.If we cant play all out attacking football against a team that spurs have put 12 goals past home and away who the fuck can we go for it against.We seem to be playing scared at the moment.I believe rafa is the man to take us forward and he has my full support but we need to do better than this.Maybe some liverpool players have given up this season and are thinking of the world cup.All defeats hurt but defeat over two legs against reading and a limp display against a team like wigan really hurt.Y N W A RAFA

Wigan has not beaten us in the premier league before this, has not scored in their last 3 games and Rodallega hasn’t found the net in the last what, 9 games? And guess who popped up to hit the winner for them? This can only happened to us. Dreadful and painful to watch. Nothing positive from the game except for Aquaman who showed some good touches towards the end and Torres was working his socks off. And for Gerrard, I think I better not comment….

SOAK: #38. You are very much correct sir. One of the most blatant match/betting fixing I can remember involved West Ham. I’ve had a few pints now, so I can’t come up with the exact matches, etc. But what I can say is, in about 5 of their games, throw ins more or less resulted every time they had the kick off.

In fact, that’s what brought it to light… the game kicked off, the ball was knocked backwards the required one full turn, the player recieving the ball whacked it straight into touch.

Absolute millions got paid out on that over the course of four or five games. What happened… nothing.

Corrupt the English game… oh dear, No. That’s the territory of those rascally foriegners like Benitez and Wenger.

Appy Arry, Fat Sham, Wee Davey Moyes, Martian O’Neil… stand up guys, lead by the most incoruptible Sir Alex of the Manger race horse scandal… disgraceful.

As for tonight’s game, in all honesty, it wasn’t I didn’t expect. But the actual performance was unbelievably shocking… so much so that I ended up just laughing and taking no notice.

I swear, I have never seen an LFC team give the ball away so cheaply, so often, in so many important positions, front and back, ever in my life.

Who do we blame for this…
The manager? The usual scapegoats? Or players like Gerrard, who for some mystery reason could not control a simple ball all night? Nando, who missed at least 3 chances he would normally bury, and a good few half ones that he would normally score?

Well, I’m sure the blame game will soon be getting played, but how you pick anyone out of that lot above an other is completely beyond me.

Rafa’s fault for playing the wrong team, in the wrong formation, with the wrong tactics?

Yes. Of course it was. But it wasn’t Rafa who fannied about with the ball all night and constently/consistently gave it away.

In fact, in all honesty, I’m not even that bothered about that abysmal display and result. And I’m not that bothered about a season of them… I’ve been a Kopite for nearly 50 years. I’ve had the great fortune of seeing total domination of the game for many years, but I’ve also seen us fail for neigh on 30 of them too.

What worries me is the effect this season will have on our future. 4th place… Who knows. It’s against us, but I wouldn’t throw in the towel just yet. But, if we don’t shake this malaise off and throw it off soon, there’s more than a huge danger that it will carry on into next season and we will be bollacksed again.

Which on that point, brings me to say this…
LBpost #34, I missed that mate. But having seen it now, have a look at what I said earlier…
20 years of dominance will have that effect. It buys respect, and rightly so. We enjoyed it for a long time. As the great Bill Shankly once said… “When you come to Anfield, you recieve a nice welcome and cup of tea, and that is it.”

But do you honestly think the only influence Mr Ferguson weilds is Fergie time?

Mate, once the man survived the calls for his head from his own “Supporters”, he pecked away and pecked away at the FA and the media until he became powerfull enough to just ride roughshod over them all.

Should he be slated for that?

Well, despite the accusations made against me, one thing I can’t stand is a bully.

So, I will never have no respect for the man, but only a fool would deny his success and accomplishments.

Anyway, I’m rambling now, but I do have some things to say….
In the pub tonight was a lad cacked in LFC gear – shirt, coat, hat, the lot. He looked quite a sight – in fact a bit of a prick, that most people would laugh at and skit nowadays. I ended up in the toilet at full time with the lad next to me. I said to him, “Oh well mate, What can you do?”

Immeadiate answer without a second thought… “Keep on supporting them!”

Give me one of them over a million Digger’s any day.

In fact, I’m going to take one of me wee sabbiticals from kop blog again now. I know if I stay in here, I will become abusive. I’ve done this a few times… funny enough I get accused of spitting the dummy. But the fact is, whenever I have taken a break, I have always explained why. And I have always ducked out before I have became completely combative and brought the place down to constant abuse and argument.

I’m going to do the same now but there’s a couple of things I must say first…
Gerry, sorry but you’re wrong mate. I was in a rush to get out earlier on, so I forgot to say it then but… It was Souness that freed up Terry Mc to run rampant. Yes, the lad had the talent anyway. But well, great double acts, Morecambe and Wise, etc.. the funny/creative one needs the straight one to release him. And Souey was defo the Bing to Terry’s Bob.

Last word, and I know it’s long, and I know this is pathetic, but…
Digger, go fuck yourself. You smarmy, sarcastic, fact bending, suck hole. I really can’t stand you or people like you. What a cunt you are. I would love to really rip into you, but I think most of the lads in here have the sense to see through you and what you are. You really are quite the twat.

However, I shall be gone now… so please don’t stalk me around the internet like you did on the last few occasions I took a break from the blog.

It’s really quite hilarious this obsession you have with me, and how you persue my attention. However, it’s also kind of quite creepy. In fact, I might find it quite uncomfortable, if you wans’t an ocean away. But seeing you are, feel free to call me whatever, but please don’t stalk me again…
Yes. It’s yours. You can accuse me of running off people to your hearts content, while in the very same breath you see away loyal reds like Keith, Aitch and meself.

I’m sure we’ll all be back. But Nice one all the same. Enjoy, as you American girls say.

Oh and now I’m gone, you can also revert to the Buffy the Vampire speak that you have dropped since being pulled.

Fuckinell, I can’t half go on, eh.
Oh well, tatty bye for now.

I have not commented in ages but after watching the dire Wigan game, I am seriously worried about the implications losing out on a 4th spot would have. It speaks volumes that Rafa has brought Liverpool up to the level where a top 4 spot was cemented and had become “expected” as the bare minimum Liverpool should be able to achieve by the supporters and media.

The problem now is the Spuds and Shiteh have better cashflow and if they do get that coveted Champions League spot they will be able to attract even more top notch players and make it very difficult for Liverpool or any other club to gain any ground on them from next season onwards.

I am not sure if Hick’s summer transfer promise pends on a top 4 finish but the supposedly despised Glazer has allegedly already promised 80 million in summer funds which will go towards a GK and striker and I am pretty sure they will be able to go for the likes of Buffon and Pato with that kind of money.

The only positives I can think of is by not getting into the top 4, it would not give the Yanks anymore money to take. With the mounting pressure of the banks and vocal supporters who will no doubt be displeased with another barren summer without transfer funds, the 2 bastards will be pressured to sell on the cheap. This is unless they actually spend the money they have gotten from their other’franchises’ and for once contemplate investing some of their own money into our institution.

The stadium still seems a million miles away so we have enough reasons to send a powerful message to them at the Man U game which will no doubt get plenty of coverage over in the States as well.

As for the speculation of Benayoun leaving. I hope it isn’t true but the reality is players like Maxi and as people have been saying Aquilani will be figuring more promiently and Pacheco (our future Fabregas/Benayoun type disequilibriante (spell?) is very close to breaking into the 1st team. I have faith in our future youth players! Bring on the MANCS!

Jesus Christ, and here I was thinking that everyone was entitled to an opinion! I’m starting to doubt that’s the case in this little microcosm. While valuing your input at times FS I well and truly don’t understand you at times, but I generally put that down to different views and opinions. I’m sure you’ll set me straight as soon as you’ve stocked up on holier then thou attitude.
C’mon man – give the guy a break.

Oh dear Monday Blues indeed, when was the last time we won on a Monday – probably back to when God was blonde,

As for the FA conspiracy – nah dont really believe it myself – every team gets bad decisions against them the mark of a great team is to win despite them – take for example to decision against Stoke last year, now you could argue the the disallowed goal cost us the game where I’d say we should have won it anyway by a couple of clear goals or for my favourite example that the French hand ball against Ireland was all down to a conspiracy with a sports manufacturing company threatening to pull their sponsorship if Franch didn’t qualify because obviously there are as lot more people in France than Ireland – shouldn’t have mattered anyway because Ireland should have won the game by that stage anyway but for some poor finishing – which is nobodies fault but our own.

As for Fergie Time – yes it does seem a bit strange that they do get alot of extra time – but dont want to sound pedantic here or anything but its actually the ref who decides the extra time not the fourth official

Yokohama, the problem is that you used the words ‘Hicks’ and ‘promise’ in the same sentence.

G&H never had any intent to put any of their own money into the club and on the only occasion that they have done, they were forced to by RBS. See the link below.

http://www.spiritofshankly.com/news/Minutes-from-Christian-Purslow-and-SOS-Meeting.html

For someone to buy the club now, they need to give about 500m to G&H, 237m to RBS and about 400m for a new stadium. So without counting in any transfer money, this means that the new owners would need to stump up around 1.1 billion quid. Doesn’t seem that sweet a deal to me!

If we finish in 4th, then I think that the current ownership/management/players situation will probably coninue as is.

If we don’t finish 4th, then I beleive that something will have to give, as we won’t have the money to pay of the interest payments and RBS will not like this. So either G&H will have to reduce the asking price or they start asset-stripping to make up the difference.

Makes me sick, even more so than that performance last night.

FS: I know people can stick up for themselves but have to say we was fairly shocked to see your outburst towards Digger. Just because you’re a ” kopite of 50 years” does not give you a monopoly on wisdom. Digger, LIKE EVERYONE ELSE in here is entitled to his opinion and I don’t understand the need to call him some of the things you did.

I think it’s a bit childish for the likes of FS, Keith and Aitch all to leave the blog just because they may have to hear some dissenting voices. Burying their heads in the sand anyone? This forum is for debate, conversation. We need voices like FS and Aitch in here to liven up the discussions. But for some reason they seem to want to try and convince us that only they are right and they MUST try and convert the rest. Where’s the fun in that?

If we do not achieve 4th place this year – the buck stops with the manager. I’m not saying that neccesarily means he must be fired but it is his responsbility. I think Digger (like me) has been questioning the manger this year and his ability to motivate his players and not side stepping the issue with talk of bad ownwers, injuries, beach balls, clashed heads, lack of match fitness, bad pitches, corrupt referees and so on.

Last night’s abject performance is not even remotely in isolation – in fact of late we’ve been playing pure shite (Wolves, Stoke, Unirea, Arsenal, Blackburn) but somehow managing to get the odd win here and there. Tonight our luck ran out.

We essentially had a full squad to pick from (bar Skrtel) and it still looked like the lads had never played with each other before. Gerrard looks totally de-motivated, Maxi isn’t good enough. Torres toiled but had no luck. Mascherano playing at right back? I’m sure Martin Kelly and Darby love the faith their manager places in them!

The race is almost run and although I’m sure we’ll beat Portsmouth – I’m honestly not looking forward to the game against Utd – they’ll be out for revenge for the last 3 defeats they’ve suffered at our hands and I have a feelin they wont have to rely on dodgey refs or inury time to give us a good spanking..

“I was fairly shocked” – not “we was fairly shocked”..arghh more typos

Hi Lurgan. I agree nothing they say can be taken at face value but I doubt that there are zero funds after sales or negative in this case for three windows running. Not making it into the top 4 does not make much financial sense either so hopefully this will be a wake up call to the owners who won’t exactly be skint after selling their respective franchise stadiums.

FS, K and Aitch have disappeared because they called it wrong @ the start of the season.Kuyt was brutal, where was Degsy ?(injured again), Maxi and Benny were all over the place.No manager has taken longer than 6 seasons to win a title, after that time Taggart had the foundation to finish top 2 every season for 18 of the next 19 years!.Wenger spent less than Rafa last summer, so it ain’t just down to cash.As bad as the Souness team of the early nineties .15 points out of 45 away is woeful.The complete inability to score away is even worse.Look @ how the Mancs played on Sat, they created lots of chances and kept it tight @ the back.Rafa has had longer then Evans and GH.Time to say ciao.

Well people call things wrong..I sure did – I never thought we’d possibly finishing 6th/7th or 8th after last season’s showing.

But they should still come back – it’s not like they hired Rafa – LFC will go on with or without him (as I have mentioned time and time again in here)

Their loyalty (as can be said for a lot of people here) is admirable but I think their seemingly blind faith in Rafa is mis-guided

Good job we lost last night otherwise BM would have disappeared and wouldnt be here today praising Wenger & Taggart. Anyway for everyone who says “i’d rather we lost than another draw” they’ll be happy. For those that said the seasons was over in December wont be that bothered, those that dont think the Europa cup is worth playing in,wont be bothered with the outcome on Thursday.And for all those that say draws cost us the Prem last year well this season has shown what the flip side to those draws can be.
Did you see Lucas’s face when he got carded for a tackle he didn’t make. Of the 5 yellows i think Torres deserved his, Gerrard,Insua won the ball and with Kyriagos it was his first foul.
While not wanting to blame one person Kuyt had a nightmare of a game what was he doing passing back towards his box id say schoolboy error but my lad shouted NO as soon as he did it and he wasn’t surprised they scored. 10 mins later he fell asleep which says a lot about the general performance
YNWA

PS Arthur
Its not blind faith i have SEEN what Rafa can do. What is blind faith is comments such as ” Trust in ANYBODY but Rafa” which i hear a lot by the anti rafa brigade while moaning about blind faith in Rafa which is a bit comical really and far from admirable.
YNWA

They all had nightmares to be fair Rome. Only Pep and Kyrgiakos came through with any credit imo. Stevie looked drunk. Nzogbia violated Insua. Torres pouted and bitched. Lucas was Lucas. Benny was lost. Maxi, anonymous. Kyut was…..words fail me….indescribable. At least Masch and Carra tried though Carras passing….wow. I really dident know what to say last night and still dont today but read this last night and thought it was perfect: Liverpool vs Pompey, one clubs a shambles the other is Liverpool.

Gerry, super stuff as always. I slept through the match, shown in Malaysia at bloody 4am. Talk about Monday night games being bad for those in England and Ireland, do spare a thought for us guys here, OK? I used to wake up to watch the CL games. Must make it a point to wake up early during erly morning games.

FS, good to see you are at your best writing form. Biym your contributions are getting to be in the league of War and Peace or, to compare a more modern novel which Donal highly recommended, Shantaram.

Biym…typo.. should be Boy.

Great blog as usual Gerry, another appaling display though.
Arthur, I’d just like to second your comments of #58, some of the insults between bloggers of late has just been way over the top. This is a great forum with some well informed opinion and people need to start respecting each others views even if they dont agree with them.
For those of you feeling pretty bad about last nights shameful display, spare a thought for us scousers who have to go into work and face the bitter blue noses!

Well first, the positives. It wasn’t as bad as the performance at Pompey.

I thought Pepe was alright, Lucas as well – at least he found a red shirt with his passing.

Torres was incredibly frustrated and although you can call it bitching and moaning it looked like he was running his socks off and showed he at least cared. The service to him was a joke. The same can’t be said of Gerrard. He was truly dreadful and if that is our leader on the pitch in our time of need we are fucked.

Insua is turning into a bit of a liability, I don’t know who the hell advised him to put on weight and muscle bulk but since he has he’s been getting skinned by every decent winger he’s come up against. He got fucking roasted last night. Time to ditch the creatine and lose some lbs.
Our 2 centre halves looked ponderous throughout. Carra struggled to find a team mate from 8 yards so reverted to launching. Where is Agger? Injured again?

Kuyt does not know how to play striker/off striker any more, he doesn’t know his arse from his albow on last night’s showing. Stevie gave him a right rollicking in the first half, and then promptly gave the ball away himself the next time he had it. Fucking hell. Maxi was useless on the left. Where is Riera? Aquilani looked decent when he came on. Any chance he’ll get some games now?

Rafa said the players lacked Character, attitude and intelligence. Which translates to “we were a disgrace”.

Against Pompey I’d pick the following:

Reina
Johnson, Carra, Kyg, Insua
Babel, Aquilani, Masch, Riera
Benny
Torres

That’s right, I’d bench Gerrard after that performance. Give Masch the armband. I’d give Kuyt the day off.

Maybe it doesn’t matter who is picked or what formation selected. The team has played the whole season like a bunch of strangers. Something isn’t right.

Okay let’s get a few things cleared up shall we.

1. I did not “take my ball and go home” because I got mad. I just lost my contract at work and am frantically searching for a new job… which surprisingly takes more time out of your fuckin day than actually being emplloyed.

When points need addressing they require more than a simplistic soundbyte and so if I don’t have time to think something through and type a considered response, I’d rather not type anything.

2. Since I do put a fair bit of consideration into my posts, and type more than your basic Burgerman twitter, it is hugely frustrating to do so and then not even have it debated. I’m fed up with Digger because of exactly that. He used to debate things, but lately just types one or two cndescending lines and includes a misquote that implies I agreed with him about something, to claim the higher ground.

That requires that I then spend time explaining he got me wrong, then reiterating my point in a different way… and I can’t be arsed with that… since he just discounts anything you say as “excuses” what’s the fuckin point in that? Its banging your head against the wall.

3. I can’t speak for others, but I certainly don’t “blindly” follow or believe in Rafa. If you’ve been in here for any length of time and have a memory, you’d know that when people slag him off pountlessley, or their argument is flawed, I jump in…
…But I have done the same when people refer to him as a “tactical genius”.

Rafa is a man like any other man. He is fallible and makes mistakes. But I am not yet at the point where I think it is in Liverpool’s best interest to part ways with him. Granted that time may be fast approaching, but it isn’t here… yet.

4. For the record, let’s look at what my prediction was for this season. What I said in July, was that… if Alonso stayed we would win the Prem. If he went, we might still win it, but our chances would be harder.
I even had a multi post discussion about it.

I didn’t make that statement because Xabi was the be-all-end-all, but because midfield is the engine room and it was settled with him in it. So Burgerman, you can shove 61 where the sun don’t shine.
Unlike you, I’ve admitted wrong calls and conceeded points on numerous occasions over the last 6 years of visiting Kopblog… because like Rafa, I’m just a man and I’m fallible… and as much experience as I’ve had in football, I recognize that I don’t know everything… something too many posters seem unable to do.

4a. For the record, I still thought we had a very good shot at the Prem. And stated as much. But from the clash of heads at Spurs, thigns just got progressively worse.
But I maintained my position not out of blind faith, but because other teams were dropping points too, and so despite the doom-n-gloom of our deteriorating season, it left a window of opportunity. We haven’t capitalized on that… but to use it to gloat is reprehensible… not becuase you are gloating at me… but because you are gloating at LFC’s misfortunes.
What The Fuck Is THAT?

5. Arthur… once again, I haven’t taken a break because I’m afraid of dissenting voices… and frankly I’m disappointed that you in particular would take such a stance. When I explained to Digger why I was doing my best to just ignore him, I held up your posts as the antithesis to his.
I have no problem with someone expressing a thought out opinion. But if I disagree with it, I’ll challenge it the same as you. What is then required for debate, is counter-points, counter-argument, supportery evidence, an analysis of circumstances, events as they unfolded, etc.

When the police investigate a crime scene, they don’t walk in and say, “he’s dead, someone killed him” and that’s the end of it. They study the crime scene, analyze the position of the body, look for signs of a struggle, photograph everything, analyse any blood splatter, and autopsy the body… and this gives them clues as to not only what happened, but why it happened and who was involved.

Well the same is true of footy. There are reasons for the things that happen.
You say some of those reasons are “side stepping the issue with talk of bad ownwers, injuries, beach balls, clashed heads, lack of match fitness, bad pitches, corrupt referees and so on.”

Is blood splatter on a wall, suggesting the attacker was 6feet tall and weilded the knife in his left hand side-stepping the issue?
Coz after all the fucker’s still dead so who cares?

I don’t mean it to be having a pop Arthur. You do usually engage in debate and you support what you say… which is why your statements disappointed me… but others do not.

5a. I don’t have a problem with anyone holding a contrary opinion to mine. I’m not on a mission to convert you to my way of thinking. But I’ll explain why I think that way and why I think its right. I expect others to do the same. Not drop in here with hit-n-run twitters.

6. I supported Houllier when the initial rumblings of discontent began, but in his last season, he sat watching from the dugout, like a deer in the headlights while games went into the toilet. That said to me, he’d lost the plot while the players were still trying to do their jobs.

I don’t see that in Rafa. He is still barking instructions … and more importantly for me… still getting frustrated and visibly pissed off at every stupid give-away. That to me says he still cares and that the players are not doing the job.

You want Rafa gone. Fine I guess. Our form has earned you the right to question him.
But NOT because you “don’t like him” or coz he’s a “fat Spanish waiter” or “too stubborn”.
How can that be taken seriously?
Those are not considered opinions, analyzing why he’s the wrong man for the job… they’re childish statements.

We are in serious times, and we should all be engaging in serious debate.

I also happen to think we should be united behind the team no matter how badly they play… but then again, I missed seeing yesterdays game (only the 2nd game I’ve missed this season) so maybe I have the fortune of not being frustrated out of my skin.

a truly awful game one of almost all i’ve watched this season from a group of profesional footballers who cant muster up any shots on target against the club in 16th in the league shocking absolutely shocking. i’ve tried to stay out of the whole argument about the manager since blowing my lid after the pompy game but i think an assement at the time that these players or a certain amount of these players no longer want to play for the manager seems to be true we’ve ground out some good wins along the way but the there is no style and no creativity and unfortunately no fight left in this team. where do we go from here?

Aitch – Whatever about the various arguments and verbal mud slinging that goes on in here, there are more important things in life and I’m sorry to hear about your job.
The same thing happened to me last June and despite my best efforts, I’m still out of work with no real sign of the situation changing anytime soon. It’s tough out there at the moment but the best of luck to you and hopefully you’ll land on your feet.

Cheers Ged, I’m not too worried yet, I live by one of my Dad’s fave sayings, “something will, in short, turn up”
… that and the the old Python edict “always look on the bright side of life”

And I’ve been through a few “starving” patches before, where I couldn’t get arrested, let alone a gig, so I hear ya…
… but I’m someone that likes to be engaged and often make my projects more difficult and challenging on myself, just for the fuck of it, so it drives me bat-shit to not be working on something.

I’ve just come off essentially 5 years of working 7 days a week on 2 monumental projects… but I seemed to find time in there, despite how busy I was, to post in here… whereas now, I never seem to have enough time in the day to get shit done.
(of course since I’m now not working but the wife is, I’m doing all the shopping, cooking and cleaning, so I suppose that accounts for much of it too.)
It just cuts into the time is all. People think you sit on your arse all day doing fuck all… its fuckin ‘ard work trying to find a job!

Hey, maybe that’s why I don’t want to see Rafa fired?
I’m projecting!

Great post Aitch, sorry to hear about your job, hopefully you will be in here a bit more often as you make a lot of sense.

Hopefully Aquilani can be given a bit more of a run now as I thought he looked composed and confident in his abilities which is a lot more than I can say for the rest of them. While it was good to have Masch at right back for his skills, he was terrible at defending and Carra had to cover him numerous times as he was caught out of position.

Just a real disappointing game, one of so many for the season. Torres could’ve had a hat trick if he wasn’t so rusty and we probably wouldn’t be having any of these nightmare discussions and we’d be sitting pretty in 4th spot waiting for the others to drop points.

Great post Atich and I would also like to add in support of that, I have kept quite not because of what is happening on the field but because of the smug contrite comments that are posted every time we loose or have a bad performance. Like Atich I have major work problems to cope with and when comments like I would rather have a discussion with Bugerbrain crops up you ask yourself way bother. It actually seems at times that people look forward to every slip and bad result just to have a pop at all and sundry and their favorite scapegoat. The TV commentary is bad enough but to have to read it out of choice and comment is, well deflating to say the least.

Debate is one thing, analyzing coming up with well thought out solutions or alternatives is another. However this is shit, he is shit, that is shit, injuries should not affect us as all teams have them or he is too cautious with two holding midfielders, despite being top goal scores last year with the same system is so boringly repetitive it make you wonder why you bother at all.

The comment above by Son of Jan, Lucas.. well Lucas is Lucas is a point in fact, for once can this lad get some credit he deserves. Gerrard had a mare of all mares followed closely by Kuyt, Benny, Insua, Carra and the rest where not much better, Aquilani looked good for the odd 30 minutes he was on or was it because he actually showed some commitment.

So what do we get sack Rafa by the Plato of the blog. Great insight, thoughtful analysis yet we are the ones that get pulled up if we have a go at this drivel and call it for what it is.

So nobody is hiding or running away because this season has turned out to be a damp squid after so much promise. The collective disappointment and the collective anxiety, with the chronic lack of match fitness, sharpness and whatever else you would like to throw in there that some people here think should not affect us has played havoc with us a collective this year. We cannot seem to get out of it for what ever reason. Playing Masch at right back, having your best three or four chances falling to Torres who on another night would have buried at least two of them. Gifting them a goal by the most hardworking and conscientious player in the team sums up our season so far.

Atich my thoughts are with you hang in there. There was a poster of a guy hanging onto the side of a mountain by his finger tips. The byline was “Success comes to those who can hang on the longest.”

Good to see your comments Aitch, Keith as well. Aitch, I hope you find work soon so that you can skive and come in here to comment more I tell you what mate, it’s a good thing you didn’t watch the game.

Keith, you have documented reasons for our poor performances consistently all season. My question to you is – and I hope we can debate this – Do you think all of the players are playing for Rafa? Has he lost the dressing room? Or certain parts of it? The reason I ask that is there seems to be a real lack of commitment from a number of players. I’m not sure if I can justify it with lack of match fitness and confidence any more. Rafa himself said the team lacked attitude, character and game intelligence. That is the most damning comments I have heard from him after a game.

What I also found worrying was a report I read about Carra. He was quoted as saying that if he isn’t offered another contract at Liverpool he isn’t bothered. He’ll play somewhere else. He has one more year left on his contract and hasn’t been offered a new one as of yet.

Great post Aitch! I am sorry to hear about your job situation and know how hard and frustrating it is to go job hunting with job application forms, interviews when you finally get the chance, waiting around for an answer (and this is in a normal economic situation..which it isn’t). In these hard times, things do get put into perspective. Best of luck with everything!

London Barnes, I think Carra might have been misquoted by the media or what he was trying to say has been taken out of context. I have read elsewhere that when the Club thinks he has become surplus to requirements, he will not hang on and sit on the bench but will gracefully call it a day and return to the Club for coaching/editing after finishing his days at a lower level. Maybe he might join Fowler in sunny Australia or head to the States.

As for poor old Rafa and losing the dressing room. Right up until the Everton and Blackburn games you wouldn’t have questioned the commitment or desire to make it into the top 4. He had already said there is little room for error and can only watch in frustration when the team didn’t show up or were underperforming due to pressure which was Martinez’s explanation. I just think and hope it was one of those blips where nothing went right.

Do I blame him for the abject performance from our captain and goal getters? Somebody in the forums wrote that he would rather see some promising youngsters who will put in everything they have for the shirt rather than players that look disinterested or dreary.

I think Riera should get a game as he is a more natural left winger who is good at holding up the ball and dribbling and was supplanted far too quickly by Maxi (who like any player will take time to adjust when coming to a new league). Riera can also play reasonably well defensively and cover for Insua when he bombs forward. In fact the two players had some good understanding until he got injured. Aquilani must be frustrated as well when Maxi gets all the minutes coming straight in after his free transfer and he only gets 10 minutes here and there. As for Insua, Aurelio is injured and Dossena is gone so we have to stick with him or throw Mavinga into the deep end. We are short for cover in other words. Johnson is back now so hopefully we can throw Gerrard upfront with Torres where the two will click like they did against Blackburn and Masch can step back into the position he is best at.

Going back to Rafa’s situation, without going so far as bad mouthing his employers he has voiced that this season has been a season where Liverpool (as a business) has had to ‘work hard’ to balance the budget and more risks had to be taken (which will translate as not investing in the team). He has also said that any new investments will be welcomed to help the Club (A plea to any Billionaire that has the Club in his best interests).

As Lurgan and countless others have pointed out before, we are over 300 million in debt, a stadium will cost more and it will cost at least another 300 to get rid of these two greedy bastards. To top that off, we will need to have another 50-60 million or more to invest in the team to compete with the rivals that will also be spending or supplementing their already heavily invested squads. Now without going into too much detail or accounting for the possibility that the new owners may want to replace Rafa, that is easily going to be over a billion and on par with United in selling price although we are including a stadium that hasn’t even started to get built yet. Speaking of the stadium, the construction was due to start this month after talks were resumed but I suppose that was another misleading announcement from the Board. We might be a Club in turmoil much like our even worse off next league opponent Portsmouth but we our a Liverpool and can still attract investors and players so lets not talk about Leeds for comparison. There will be War if they even attempt to sell off our assets. There are plenty of reasons to get the rope out but we have to make a statement of intent at the United game and continue to put pressure on these lying twats for the rest of the season, as well as supporting Rafa and the team starting with the Lille game. A trophy this season will hopefully lift the gloom a bit! Come On You REDS!!

Sorry about the lack of paragraphs and length of the post….

Sorry to hear about your employment difficulties Aitch. My post at #58 was mainly directed towards FS – as I thought his outburst towards Digger was over-the-top

Good to see you and Keith back posting.

Wouldn’t mind seeing what people think of LB’s post about Rafa having lost the dressing room – I think this question was raised before the Everton game but then the lads came out an really got stuck into the Blue noses -so it was dropped.

I think somebody might have mentioned it here before that if you lose the dressing room it is nigh on impossible to get it back.

My own humble opinion would be that they way Gerrard is playing at the moment he seems to have lost interest and add onto that Carra’s and Rafa’s comments – maybe there is something there

Aitch, sorry to hear bout your job mate, hope something comes up soon. And sorry to hear you’re fed up with my short posts. If you need me to I’d be happy to elaborate on or flesh out any point I make in the future. Just ask me a question as Rome did and I’ll answer it for ya bro. Keith, cant help but be amused by your stated dislike for smug comments yet 3 paragraphs later your old chestnut ‘son of Jan’ makes an appearance! Quid pro quo Clarice! Quid pro quo!

An Linn, it’s away from home against mediocre opposition where the lack of commitment seems apparent. At home against Everton with 40,000 screaming fans behind you it’s easier to be motivated. You then get a player sent off and every player knows they have to roll their sleeves up. Away from home though some of the body language and general application has been a disgrace to the shirt. Some of the home games against the smaller sides have been dreadful as well.

If they play poor against Pompey and then give the mancs a right good game I will be asking some serious questions.

I might get a right bolloking from some of you for bringing this up, but…is it time to sell Stevie G? Don’t get me wrong, I love the guy (not in that way, c’mon!) & totally appreciate what he has done for the Reds. He is Liverpool through & through. However, he is 29, and this season he has been half (maybe 1/4) the player he was last season & seasons before that. I’m asking if he is demoralised & needs a change of scenery? He has just looked down & moody 90% of this season. Maybe it’s the injuries & thus lack of form? Or maybe he & Rafa are not seeing eye to eye?
I dunno, but maybe we could get 40mill for him – and hopefully get to use it before the 2 fuckers stick it in their ‘sky rocket’.
I’m not sure if I should click ‘submit comment’ coz a question or statement like this might elicit some angry comments from some of you. It’s just a thought mind, and as I said, he has been Mr. Liverpool for a number of seasons now. If he is dissalusioned, why keep him?
Well, here goes…

Rafalution I have thought the same thing.

LB, An Linn, I was actually going to post about the ‘dressing room issue’ last night but thought better of it.

After watching the match/ horror show again, unfortunately, it’s difficult to come to any other conclusion other than there is some discontent in the camp.

The lads new exactly what they needed to do and how important this match was, yet there was no urgency or desire to get the win. In fact Aqua looked good when he came on because, not only did he show a bit of skill & vision, he also displayed some urgency.

Taking into account Rafa’s post match comments (which I agree is the closest you will probably ever hear him say that we were complete shite) and carra’s ‘not bothered’ statement and it’s hard not to put 2 and 2 together.

I wouldn’t go as far to say that Rafa has lost the dressing room but maybe there’s an argument to say that he has lost a portion of it. Obviously Stevie having a mare of monumental porportions would have people pointing fingers in his direction.

All in all, I believe that there is something going on and, if so, it needs to be corrected ASAP. If this means that some big names need to move on then so be it. What I do know is that having a fractured dressing room is not a platform for success.

and right on cue…

http://tomkinstimes.com/2010/03/the-implications-of-5th-or-worse/#comment-20597

some interesting points guys LB and Rafalution

LB – has Rafa lost the dressing room? Too hard to say – Macscherano, Lucas and Reina are all playing some great stuff but Stevie G, Carragher and even Torres’ body language at times this season is extremely worrying which leads me to selling Stevie…

Rafa – I wouldn’t sell him – I think he has so much still to offer us – I’d say see what happens in pre-season and how he starts next season. If the sulky face is still there come August/Sept – on yer bike son!

Now to read Tomkin’s article….

some good stuff there from Tomkins…one of his best articles I’ve seen in a long time from him

Very interesting article from Tomkins.

Today in the Echo Rafa is bigging up Pepe’s leadership qualities. Reading between the lines what are we to make of this? That the captain and vice captain’s leadership has left a lot to be desired? Or am I reading too much into this?

I brought up the dressing room issue a while ago after one of our utterly dire performances. Cant remember which one because sadly there’s been so many. We were going through an awful time on and off the pitch and all and sundry in the media were tearing into Rafa. I think my point at the time was there was not a dickie bird (havent used that phrase since Mosney, Co. Meath circa 1986!) from our captain or voice captain in support of Rafa. In fact, come to think of it all season i cant really remember many of our players publicly backing the manager if at all. For me the silence is starting to speak volumes. I’m really starting to question that maybe Rafa has lost some of the players. I hope im wrong because thats something that is hard to come back from.

As for selling Gerrard. No way. At 29 he is at his peak. When the guy is on form there is not a player that can match him in world football. He can be a monster of a player. He just needs to get his finger outta his arse at the moment and start leading the team instead lumbering around the pitch in a huff.

I fully expect a reaction against Lille tomorrow night. Because i believe the players will be really hurting after that Wigan defeat. The players will know that performance was not acceptable. And be it personal pride or whatever i expect them to get really stuck into Lille. If they dont then we are in serious trouble.

Personally i think half the Liverpool team have one eye on the coming world cup, especially SG and if he carries on performing like he did on monday night he’ll be lucky to get a game.
Aitch, feel for you mate as i have had to retire early because of health issues so i know what it’s like being a househusband, but tell you what buddy my culinary skills are better than ever and ( i have always maintained this) the house is a lot cleaner as i think fella’s are more particular and a lot more diligent than our fair maids.
My missus thinks i make the best Irish stew she has ever tasted done with loads of little roast potatoes (roasties as we scousers call them) and a couple of florets of broccoli cant beat it buddy.
Heed your old man’s word Aitch something will turn up mate so good luck to you for the future.

Redman I think you should invite us round for dinner. I’m liking the sound of that Irish stew!

Don’t know if anybody else noticed this in the first half. There was one point where Stevie had the ball in midfield… looked up, couldn’t find anybody to pass to so with an annoyed look shoved the ball over to Lucas about 5 feet away to see what he could do with it. It might mean nothing but it sure looked typical of how things are going for us. Lots of frustration, lack of creativity, and lack of confidence, not just from Stevie but the team as a whole. They look scared out there sometimes and play like they are trying not to lose rather than going out there to batter teams that are on paper, much weaker.
I hate to bring up the Alonso debate again but I think this shows how badly his leaving has affected the team. Last year we were also without Stevie and Nando for long periods of time yet we still played some superb games because Xabi provided a beautiful balance in the middle of the pitch. Luckily we have his perfect replacement in Stevie but Rafa prefers him further up front. I think Stevie could do a wicked job in Xabi’s place spraying the ball all over the pitch, while tackling the shit out of attackers as well as bombing up front for his goals now and then.
Lucas did well recently apart from losing the ball in his own half a few tims… seems to be making more forward and incisive passes nowadays so good for him, but I would still rather see either him or Masch in midfield and not both of them, and between the two I would have to go for Masch. The guy is simply a monster! The way he tracks the players and tackles man… he has to be one of our best players.
I was just thinking a little while ago that are we now simply one of the teams who are going to only challenge for 4th place every season but then I gave our team the once over and realized that we still have some really world class players on our team and should be a match for the other top three anyday. It’s simply the fact that the owners won’t stump up the cash to get the few more needed to really put our squad up on par. We have Stevie, Nando, Pepe, Masch, with Glenda, Benny, Agger, and a few others providing a solid support. We simply need more funding to improve the team. Yes Rafa was able to buy Aqua but only after selling Xabi. We need to be able to buy without spending and with these cocks in charge, that will never happen so as much hope as i have, i realistically think we cannot really challenge for the title no matter who our manager is. Maybe last season was our blip (in a good way) whereas this and the season before will be more of the norm. I hope not but could be the writing on the wall…..

I personally think Stevie has had enough of playing with players who he believes are not good enough to help him achieve his ambitions. There won’t be any readymade world class players signing any time soon so he needs to stop the sulking and play to the best of his abilities or he needs to fuck off. One of the two. It’s that simple.

I noticed when he shoved the ball to Lucas and then lambasted Kuyt for his static movement. A couple of passes later the ball went back to Stevie and he gave it straight to a Wigan player. The next pass from him went for a throw in I think.

Anyone can have a stinker but I think it’s more than that. I don’t agree he is at his peak. Different players peak at different times. Just because Stevie is 29 doesn’t mean he is at his peak. Michael Owen and Fowler were not at their peak aged 29 – they were past it. I am not saying Stevie is ‘past it’ but will he be as consistently good as he was between 2004-2009? All these excuses afforded to him because he has had a few injuries. Fair enough but if he is going to miss chunks of the season and then spend the rest of the time gaining match fitness when will we ever see the best from him? And for how long? He is taking longer and longer to recover from injury. Mikel Arteta has been out for almost a year, he had 3 appearances this season (2 from the bench) and then put on a clinic against Hull the other day.

If I thought Gerrard was just having a poor season I wouldn’t criticise so heavily as I am aware of the things he has helped us achieve. He has been one of the best players I have ever seen. However when I start to identify a poor attitude and lack of commitment it’s an entirely different issue.

It is disheartening to read the speculations on Rafa having lost the dressing room or a few players at least. Let’s say that the speculation is true, the question woold then be why? Is it because of his tactical approach to the games? Is it because he doesn’t pat these players often enough? Or something happened in the dressing room such as he kicked a boot and it landed on a player’s face for example?

It really boggles the mind. A manager with a track record as long as my arm, a manager who loves the city and the club, a manager who has shown how we can beat the daylights off bigger teams, and a manager who showed how well we can play, as in last season, against so many odds.

Next question would be, if the speculation is true, whether these players who are jeopardising our games should be shown the door or the manager should be booted.

I really, really hope that the speculation is not true and the poor performances were all due to other reasons such as the looming World Cup, players overly worried about what’s happening to the club because of the lack of investments/owners not supporting the manager, players’ fitness, etc. Because the very idea it is happening sucks realtime!

I for one, would be on for keeping Stevie but giving the armband to either Reina or Mascherano – please discuss.

as Tomkins mentioned in his article – I think Carra is definitely coming towards the end. I’d like to keep him as back up but in my eyes Skrtel and Agger should be our main defensive duo now

Arthur, it would be nice if Agger and Skrtel could stay fit. When that happens I’d like to see that combination. We need a new left back as well. An athletic one as I’ve had enough of these guys who couldn’t beat a tortoise in a race.

I’d give the armband to Masch. I believe outfield players should be captain.

I agree with Arthur on that. Time for Reina to become captain I think. And Agger and Skrtel should become our main defensive partnership from next season. Both are good on the ball and can pass forward without hoofing, which unfortunately is Carra’s weak point.

LB I have no problems debating with you, while we do not always agree we back up our opinions properly.

That ugly issue of dressing room support was bound to raise its head again after a really dreadful performance. Do I think he has… no not when you consider the massive performances leading up to the Arsenal game? It’s too easy to throw out comments like that and to simplistic.

It was a newly laid pitch which tends to be heavy, spongy and soft while it beds in. So not the greatest pitch to play on and yes it was the same for both sides, but it tends to take its toll out more on the not so fit and sharp players more. The complexion of every game changes on small things and had Torres buried the first chance he got we could have seen a whole different outcome.

We debated the reason for the shit year lots of times but they are still valid and with a particularly out of sorts Gerrard (I cannot remember seeing him play worse or pass so badly) it seemed to affect the whole team. I don’t know if it is just me but Gerrard seems worse when he has been away on international duty.

By the way the comment why Rafa does not drop Gerrard back into the Alonso role, well he played there at Wigen, Masch was right back and Kuyt played up front with Torres.

When Kuyt gifted them a chance, which they took because we had Masch playing right back, it knocked the already fragile make up even further. With Torres missing another relatively easy chance, not to mentions Gerrards one before as well (yes more difficult) I thought it was going to be one of those nights.

It was one of those games, if we where flying, that we would have won by two goals while playing shite, this year not.

Carra has had a bad year by his standards for most parts and I think its time for him to start taking the Big Sammie role of older statesman while we build on the Skertal Agger partnership. Why Maxi is preferred to Reira only Rafa knows, although Reira was shocking the last time out. I prefer him because he adds more balance and width to the team, but I don’t see them train. Benny was no better than Maxi and I was hoping Babel would have come on earlier, but all these things are irrelevant and guarantee nothing, we should have won with the team that started.

All teams have personality clashes and problems; these however are exaggerated when you have a year that we are having. Now is not the time to get rid of anyone, unless there is a major clash and for me the most important person to keep above all others is Rafa. He is the one beacon of light, professional and person who actually cares about the club. I will chalk this season down to one of a collection of events that has conspired against us right from the start and it just got worse from there. It happens in sport and you just cannot explain it, or you can and people don’t want to listen. Continuity and stability is what is needed in order for us to get back to where we where last year this time. We have not become a bad team over night nor had Rafa become a bad manager.

agree that we have not become a bad team overnight its happened over a whole season we’ve played over 40 competitive games this season and had what, maybe five decent performances out of all those games. i agree that rafa has not become a bad manager overnight but i thought it in december and i still think it now rafa has said all he can say to our senior players coached them all he can there is nothing new you can do or say after six years either the senior players go or the manager does thats how you keep things fresh at any club.
The table will not lie in may it never has and never will.

LB,
it was my favourite meal at home made by my dad i might add, sadly with the condition i suffer i cannot eat red meat (except bacon) or most green veg, to say i’m sick of chicken or fish is an understatement, never mind it could be worse.
Back to monday night and the Gerrard performance, to me he looked like he did’nt want to be there at all and the way we played against (this hurts) wigan if he’d took Stevie G off as well as (perm any one of these) Kuyt, Benny or Maxi and not replaced them i honestly cant say we would have missed them, dont get me wrong like someone above commented, Kyriagkos and Pepe were about the best for us on the night, but the rest of them, well i think they should donate their wages to a worthwhile charity. (Then again they would probably have fucked that up as well).

Well boy’s
hope you like my gravatar, this is my new granddaughter Mia and that is her LFC outfit.

theredman
Congratulations its always best to start them young just dont leave SSN or Talksh*te on while she’s sleeping otherwise her first words will be “sack Rafa”. : )
Digger
You made me chuckle @ 81 “Just ask me a question as Rome did and I’ll answer it for ya bro. ” god it was like getting blood out of a stone i was trying to get you to say” the refs were bias” you agreed but you just couldn’t say the words. : )
YNWA

Always good to see Babes in Red… the next gen and all that!

Earlier in the season, I called into question the validity of players talking to the press and making statements like “we need more world class players” and “the owners need to back the manager so he can bring in more world class palyers”.

Its fuckin devisive.

If your a young player like Lucas, you’d have to be looking up to someone like SG and trying to emulate him and learn from him, while playing alongside him… but then he gets a fuckin earful for a stray pass (like SG don’t do that too, as LB pointed out earlier) and then you have to read your Captain basically thinks you’re shite and should be replaced by better players.

Now hold your horses for a minute. The point is not whether or not any player in question actually is world class or not, or good enough for LFC or not, but that that staement is being made publicly by the team Captain.

What kind of team unity is that creating?
What kind of team spirit can exist in that environment?

We often prattle on in here about “the spine, or core of the team”. We name names, when we do so.
But for those very same players to do that in any public forum, means they are basically slapping their teammates in the face with a wet fish.

And this is a game of 11 players… 14 if you count subs… and 20-odd if you think in terms of the squad.

Its all well and good headlining SG as the man who single-handedly won us the game against Olympiakos, but it fuckin completely ignores the contributions of Mellor and Pongolle whose super-sub contributions got us the first two goals and laid the winner on a fuckin platter for SG… and that ignores the contributive play of the rest of the players on the night.
Same can be said of Istanbul.

I personally find it quite interesting that the West Ham final is regarded as the “Steven Gerrard Final” but the Arsenal Cup final is NOT regarded as the “Michael Owen Final”.
Now it gets subjective, but surely… if ever ONE player won a cup final… it was MO versus the Arse!

Rafa is hailed for his tactical genius in Istanbul… particulalry the half-time introduction of Didi Hamman… but doesn’t that sort of ignore the team selection that contributed to the first 45 minutes???

The players need to shut up and do their jobs. Big-up their teammates instead of essentially slagging them off.

Rafa is often criticised for making statements in support of certain players. You don’t actually think he believes he’s got a world class squad do you?
he’s got to say that stuff to try to get the best out of everyone.

For what its worth… What I think needs to happen…
Rafa stays for at least one more season and we see if this season is the anomoly (as I believe it is,) or a warning sign, (which I think it is not)…
…we offload a half-dozen players in the summer (I won’t name names… you could select about 5 different combos of six names in my opinion… none of which would be quintessential selections)
… and replace them… breath of fresh air and all that…
…problem is… we don’t have the finances for that!

To cheer you all up lads
A husband and wife are shopping in their local supermarket.The husband picks up a case of Budweiser and puts it in their cart.’What do you think you’re doing?’ asks the wife.’They’re on sale, only £10 for 24 cans,’ he replies.’Put them back, we can’t afford them,’ demands the wife, and so they carry on shopping.A few aisles further on along the woman picks up a £20 jar of face cream and puts it in the basket.’What do you think you’re doing?’ asks the husband.’It’s my face cream. It makes me look sexy and beautiful for you when we’re making love,’ replies the wife.Her husband retorts: ‘So does 24 cans of Budweiser … at half the price.’

congrats redman but are you sure you want your Grandaughter to go through the pain of the footy fan?

good points aitch but right now i think we could do with a fecking hurricane!!!!

Sure I’m never gonna say something I dont believe Rome! I dont believe they’re outright biased, I believe they’re grossly incompetent. Aitch I’m guessing you dont think Rafas lost the dressing room so, hypothetically, if he has and considering we wont see the funds from a fire sale, would you consider it more practical to replace the manager rather than the players? Redman, congratulations, she’s a little cracker! Btw Aitch, the 2001 final is univerally known as ‘the owen final’ no? In the lexicon a while?

I think next season there needs to be major changes in our squad.The players who should remain in the 1st team are Reina,Johnson,Agger,Skrtel,Mascherano,Gerrard,Aqulani,Torres.The missing positions are(based on 4-2-3-1)a left winger & a right winger & a left back.We should go back to considering gerrard as a central midfielder.And buy a proven striker who is a genuine stand in for Torres who gets injured often.And buy two pacy skilful wingers.I think beside torres we lack pace upfront.our current wide players are not good enough to be considered ist choice.And a experienced left back who can defend.Also a young promising centre half too challenge Agger & skrtel.The players we should keep as squad players are Cavelieri,Kelly,Darby,Ayala/Carragher,Insua,Pacheco,Lucas,Riera,Benayoun,Nemeth/Gerardo Bruna.With this squad there are many players who can play 2nd striker/attacking midfielder.Nemeth/Gerrard/Benayoun/Aquilani.The players we need to sell/release/kick to the curb are Kuyt/Degen/Ngog/Plessis/Maxi/Kyrgiakos/Aurelio/Babel/Spearing/El zhar/Itandje/.We need to sort out the attacking part of our team.Defensive play is important but the attacking strategy is essential if you want to compete at the very top.Our current squad is ok if every player is fit and on form at the same time but how often does that happen.I didnt include benny onion in my 1st team because i keep hearing rumors of him going elsewhere.If he stays i would want him to play behind torres in stead of aquaman.YNWA

see, that was sort of the point I was trying to make in #105.
rafamuffin…. it just isn’t going to happen. It can’t. There is no money to bring in “a left winger & a right winger & a left back.” … not ones of the “required world class quality” of which SG and Torres (and all and sundry in here) speak of.

And Digger… I’ve heard it refered to as the Owen final, but it is not largely identified as such in the way in which the SG final is… for instance, No DVD exists titled “The Michael Owen Final”

And there no definitive right or wrong answer to your question regarding Benitez. Your answer will be skewed by the fact that you’ve already made up your mind on the man.
Mine will be skewed by my belief that last season was a truer indicator of the man, his abilities and his squads abilities, than this one is… this is exactly why I believe no decision should be made on Rafa this summer.

Also, in regards what rafamuffin said and my response to it… Any new man would NOT be given the funds he’d require to bring in 1 World Class player, let alone the 3 or more that are required… or the usual complete squad restructure that usually accompanies new management.

Jamie Carragher has some very interesting things to say on this idea of a manager “losing the dressing room”.
He states unequivocally that it is a foolish and flawed concept.
His premise essentially being, it doesn’t matter if you believe in the manager or not, its you in the shirt for 90 minutes.

As someone who has played for a fair number of complete nob-ead coaches in my time, and coaches who showed me no respect or support, I fully support the concept… whether I believed in the boss or not, I still gave it 100% for 90 as though I was in the red in front of Anfield.
I played for myself and my teammates, not my coach.

now grant you… if you like the gaffer, you do want to dig deep and give that little somethign extra…

… so maybe we are missing that, if its is true that some of the players no longer believe in the man or his methods…

.. but that still doesn’t explain top drawer players sudenly forgetting how to pass the fuckin ball, or shoot straight, or chose to try an impossible pass, when a simpler one is on.
It doesn’t explain the lack of movement, or the crazy running out of position, or bumping into each other that we’ve seen, all over the park, repeatedly this season.

Losing the dressing room, does not explain…
the Carra/Skrtel clash of heads
SG bowling Babel over, (CL game) causing his injury
Masch running from right back, across the box, to push Insua out of the way, when he could have cleared it, then running the ball out for a throw-in for the opposition.

those are just 3 instances… one two games ago… one essentially mid-season… one in the first game… but there have been loads of other examples of just a complete and total lack of cohesion, teamwork, composure, that have been shown throughout the season by various players.

So in answer to your question… should we be thinking about the replacing the manager?
Of course you have to consider it. Footy is a results based game and we haven’t got them. But as I said, you don’t make a snap-Newcastle like decision on such a matter.
Rafa’s “total control” won’t bare fruit for at least another season… more likely 2 or 3.
The meager money available for transfers suggest we’re better off with continuity at the helm.
As I said, I think last season was the norm, this season is the anomalie.
The man will have a plan for the summer… let’s see what it is.
Then let’s see what happens next season. If we are int he same boat come January, I might come to the dark side with you Dig, but not now.

I know you don’t agree, but in as civil a manner as I can, I cannot stress enough how important I think it is that LFC “stand fast” get behind the boss and the players (even when their performances don’t deserve it) raise the us against the world flags and “die were we stand”

And that isn’t blind faith.
I just think the alternative will set us back years.

And I’d like to go back to LB’s comment in #95.

Just think about that first sentence for a minute…
“I personally think Stevie has had enough of playing with players who he believes are not good enough to help him achieve his ambitions.”

Now I happen to agree with you LB… but what is worrying is not whether we agree or disagree with the it… but what it actually is indicative of.

A player, who believes he should be playing with 10 other Galacticos, who thinks those around him aren’t galacticos, and won’t achieve his personal ambitions if LFC can’t provide him with that team of Galacticos.

Please… shelve your personal opinions of Steven Gerrard for one moment and take an objective, critical look at that premise. Maybe its a generational thing, but that idea fuckin apalls me!

He’s great… maybe half-a-dozen of his teammates are also good…. but no one else at LFC is???

Doesn’t that idea, by its own very existence mean that he thinks he’s bigger than the club?

I don’t mean this to be a “String SG up by his bollocks” thread.
I’m not even having a go at SG by that statement really…
…but I do think the self-importance that some players have is truly disgusting, (again, maybe a generational thing) borne of the multi-millionaire pay-packet, and life-style that accompanies it.

I have a goiod mate who was a fairly successful 80s rockstar. He’s still touring and recording today. You don’t do that, you can’t do that, without some ego… and he has one, but he’s also a sound lad, who does have his feet on the ground (maybe coz he’s got mates like me that don’t let him forget that he might be a god to some, but he’s just a regular fuckin bloke to us )

I’ve also know a few fellas, far less successful, who aren’t even working musicians anymore, who thought they were the dogs bollacks!

… so maybe that explains why I don’t believe their personal ambitions should supercede those of their fans…
…but even Jamie Carragher… Mr. Soul of LFC… disagrees with that!
(I was quite surprised when I read that in his book.)

Excellent post Aitch, I am also of the opinion that changing the manager now would be too hasty. It’s been one awful season and I don’t think that is enough to warrant the sack. If we were 15th that would be different.

In any case I think it’s more realistic that Rafa would walk away rather than get the sack. The club can’t afford the pay off and I doubt the owners care enough about our results to sack Rafa and have to make the compensation pay outs. I reckon they’d sooner asset strip than sack Rafa and pay him off.

Even if Rafa were to walk or get the sack. As far as I see there are no football people in our board. Who the hell would be in charge of recruiting a new manager? Can the current regime be trusted with such a decision? The owners wanted to meet with Klinsmann as a potential coach because of his marketing contacts for fuck sake.

Usually when a club sacks a manager the new guy comes in and can freshen things up by buying a few of his own players. Then there is the sense of hope from the fans. That wouldn’t be the case in our situation.

I agree. These seem like easy decisions when you don’t think about them.
The likelihood in my mind, is someone like Dalglish would be given the reigns.

And I know that would be a “popular decision” but it has inherent dangers in it. Not the least of which is the fact he hasn’t managed a top flight team (or even a low flight team) in a decade… a decade in which the face of footy has changed.

And as you said… no dosh to put yer own stamp on things.

Some would have you believe there is no media bias towards LFC… but for whatever reasons, be they personally directed at LFC, or just the glee of bringing down a “big 4″ club, there is definitely a “movement” to create an environment in which Rafa’s position becomes increasingly untenable.

And certain player performances, and even certain fans, are aiding and abetting that movement… whether delibertaely, knowingly, or innocently, in my opinion.

NO… as I see it, like it or not… we must stick with Rafa for the forseeable future.

Another thing is this…
As disasterous as the media will portray missing out on the Cl spot though… and yes it has both financial and playing staff implications… it could very well be a blessing in disguise.

And that from someone who never wants to see us finish lower than First.

but here is my point…
No CL footy, means no CL cash.
Yes that’s bad for purchasing power (and the lure of the CL for player recruitment) but its also very bad for the Owners.
Thier valuation of the club and necessary repayments due to RBS mean a finish outside the top 4, could… and I don’t know how probable that is, but could force RBS to force their hand in both the timing and sale price of the club.

Remember, with debts of 350mill, we were valued at 400 mill and turned down such an offer from DIC, then inexplicably 450mill, then 500mill. (is it really any wonder there were no takers?)

Now that global finances are worse and the Yanks still owe 270 (though I still haven’t found anything in print that actually supports how it came down to that from 350?) with RBS “demanding” not just interest repayments, but lump sums… G&H could be “forced” to lower the valuation back down to a more realistic figure.

And as someone else mentioned earlier… no CL footy next season, (though finishing 5th, or winning the UEFA cup would see us competing on Thursdays) could put us in the driver’s seat for an assault on the Prem… and we’d be doing so as underdogs… completely written off as “used to be’s” rather than the faves we were rated this season… and we do seem to work better, to steal a Python phrase, when “no one expects the Spanish Inquisition!”

Clutching at straws for positives?
Sure, I’ll concede there’s no way to tell what the future holds and it could all as easily work against us..
But I’d rather “look on the bright side of life” than blabber “the sky is falling!”

Aitch, I don’t have a problem with SG thinking we need more players on his level. However I do have a problem with him making it look so obvious that this is the case. I have a problem with him coming out saying that we need more world class players. It undermines the current squad and the manager. You never hear any player at Arsenal saying things like that. No matter how shite they perform or how much of a bad run of form they are in they all trot out the same line. That they are in fact good enough.

In the 2004-05 season Gerrard said that we didn’t really have a chance of winning the Champions League but we would do our best and see what happens. Rafa was interviewed the same day and said actually we can win the CL. That’s just an example of the lack of belief that our leader on the pitch has with team mates he perceives to be not good enough.

I consider it a total disgrace when a player uses his dislike of a manager as a reason for his lack of effort or commitment. These guys are professionals. You’d think a player would always try his absolute best for himself, his football club, the fans and his professional pride. Especially if said player is a local lad who is captain of his local football club, the club he grew up supporting.

I never saw Alan Shearer sulk on the pitch while playing for Newcastle. He won fuck all playing for his boyhood club. He never complained, never begged for world class players, just got on with his job to the best of his abilities.

I don’t even think Gerrard has the right to sulk anyway. Last season we were close to winning the league and he spent half the season with the physios. In the CL quarter final when you need your best players to deliver – the first leg he was marked out of the game. Did fuck all. In the 2nd leg he was watching from the stand while his team mates played their hearts out. This season he has either been injured or shite. So how he can moan or sulk about anything is beyond me.

Stevie shoves the ball to Lucas as if to say “here YOU do something with it”. Hold on a minute Stevie, you get £500,000 every month and you can’t be arsed?

I would tell any Liverpool player this: If you do not want to play for Liverpool – fuck off somewhere else. If you want Galacticos then piss off to Man City or Real Madrid.

And let’s look at the math.

Let’s say it is 270. I still don’t see how it isn’t 350, but let’s give G&H the benefit of the doubt they so clearly don’t deserve… given their “forthrightness’ in the past.

So the figures I’ve seen bandied about are…
interest payment due in the summer is 35 million!
Normally Cl qualification would pay for this, but 35 mill probably isn’t that hard to come up with (how sick is it to even say that? 35 million, got that right here! We live in such an unrealistic world!)

but I’ve also seen figures that suggest the payment is actually 60 million.
A Much larger figure to come up with.

And of course there was the Purslow/SOS statements that inply RBS is demanding a payment of 100 million.

Now without CL money… the owners must either find someone to give them 100 million for 10% of the club… the current plan we’ve been told…
… but what businessman in their right mind would go for such a deal??

100 mill of 10% of a club valued at 400 mill (or more) but with 270 (or more million in debt?
…does that sound like a good deal to ANYONE?

So if nbody goes for that deal (and the supposed “4 interested parties” haven’t done so yet?)
…then option 2 is…

100 million is due… Where do you get it?
Hicks sale of the Stars is in limbo this week as a result of questions raised about the clubs finances, business dealings, and terms of the sale. So he’s fuckin skint!
Gillette got 300 odd million dollars from the sale of the Canadiens, but we haven’t seen any of it, and we likely won’t, so…
… does that not automatically mean assets must be sold to cover the debt?
And Torres and SG would balance the books overnight!

Scaremongering I hear you say?
Sure, it is… but that doesn’t make it any less a real possibility. We’re not talking crop circles here lads.
They owe RBS moeny. RBS wants it. They have to stump it, or “find it” somewhere.

Rafa staying or leaving alters nothing about the above scenarios…
…except perhaps a dissenting voice on “our” behalf, to stop the type of asset stripping that would represent an instant fix for the owners financial troubles.

now the 3rd option available to the owners is to sell for a reduced valuation.
So let’s say they do only owe 270million… and they reduce the sale price from 400 to 350mill. Such a sale woudl settle the debt, and G&H would walk away from the club with 40 million each!

It would seem to me, such a sale would be MORE likely with Rafa at the helm, than with nobody, or “insert replacement name here” at the helm.

I agree wholeheartedly with 114 LB.
But its not really about what we think, or how we feel about the situation.

What about the players. You mentioned Lucas… but there are countless other situations where he’s bollocked players, rather than pat them ont he back or encourage them.
How is that supposed to get the best out of his teammates. They’re more likely to think “fuck off” … especially when he’s giving it away more frequently, or twatting glory efforts from 30 yards with better placed teammates.

One example… he takes most of our corners… but when if/we need a goal around about 80 minutes, he starts waving others over to take them and takes up a position in the box.
Hmmm?

Look I don’t want to be bagging on SG. this shouldn’t deteriorate into a slag SG thread… though it already has those undertones (overtones I hear some thinking) we all know what he’s done for us in the past, but nobody, and I mean nobody should exist solely on their reputation…
…but to me, this is one of many examples this season, that speaks to the mentality of the team…
…and thereby Rafa’s ability to get the best… or for fucks sake, even just “good enough”… out of the entire squad.

Suffice to say… I didn’t find a job today

Aitch,

Sorry to hear about your job.
Best of luck to you, man.

Some good stuff here Aitch and LB…Jesus I feel a bit despressed after all that SG amd debt talk..

so lets focus on tonight’s game..shall we?

I’d love to think we’ll get a performance and result to spark us into live for the remaining 9 league games of the season but I’m not holding my breath..anyway does anyone know anything about Lille?

My team tonight – none of this Mascherano at right back nonsense included:

Reina
Magic Carragher Agger(if fit) Insua (unfortunately)
Benayoun Gerrard Mascherano Reira
Aquilani
Torres

I know there’s little or no chance of actually seeing that but in my eyes that is our strongest and probably most balanced team

I have no problems with that side at all Arthur. Although I’d like go see Babel get a start for this game and then the Pompey game.

Well Babel maybe for Reira? – either way we need to start seeing LFC going out to win games instead of the cautious catlike approach and HOPING to win games

Aquilani has to start – no excuses

All out – we’ve nothing to lose in the Europa

Babel starting in place of Benayoun (injured) would be the team for me also. Lets go for it from the off for a change. I know it is a european away game, but lets suprise the shit out of them and try to restore some belief in the players and manager.

Come on Red Men!

Thank you for the kind word’s lad’s.
Just been watching sky sports news and the fairytale of old trafford, what a sickening and condescending shower of shit sky are, it was right down their alley, “return of their most famous son” and then hammered by their new son and milan annihilated by OUR glorious team, absolutely fuckin sickening i wonder what would have happened if golden bollocks had scored a couple, we would have heard the true manc fans then.
If this all sounds like sour grapes boy’s, well your right it is i am fuckin gutted.

StevieB – Benny is injured again??? fuckin hell

anyway here’s the most likely team tonight:

Johnson, Nico, Carragher, Insua
Kuyt, Lucas, Mascherano, Babel
Gerrard
Torres

i agree that rafa should definitely be retained as manager in view of our current financial crisis and the desperate need for continuity, so rather than general “rafa’s shit” type comments, allow me to consider specifically what he might be doing wrong, or at least could improve on, in my very humble opinion. here’s my top 5 gripes against the boss over recent seasons. what do you reckon? feel free to debate (nicely)!

1) Peter Crouch

yes, i know torres and gerrard formed a fantastic partnership and even though rafa wanted to keep him and offered him a new contract, crouchy wanted first team football and left to find it, but i find rafa’s treatment of crouchy inexcusable. yes, i know rafa signed him as a nobody and made him the player he is, but there were so many opportunitieds to give him some game time after he’d made his name that were simply ignored. i’m talking games when we were chasing a goal away from home. i’m talking games when we were cruising to victory and he was only brought on with 5 mins remaining. i’m talking games where he had played brilliantly the match before but then left out in the cold the following week. crouch didn’t want to leave. he would’ve been happy to stay and fight for his place if he’d been shown any faith whatsoever. rafa handled him really badly imo and now we’ve lost a player who could’ve made all the difference to our attacking options.

2) Substitutions

i don’t reckon rafa makes enough impact from the bench. i’ve lost count of the number of times i’ve been screaming at the telly for a change to be made, and the team has been allowed to plod on ineffectively as it is. didi in the cl final is the only unforced halftime change i can recall him making (correct me if i’m wrong) and frankly that change should’ve been made earlier. one thing (the only thing) i respected mourinho for was the way he saw when things weren’t working and wasn’t afraid to make early (sometimes double) changes to win games. the tramp also does this well. yes, i know mourinho had a huge expensive squad to throw around, and rafa doesn’t have that luxury but rafa’s changes are almost always like-for-like after about 70 mins. i’m sure he can influence games more than that with some more significant tactical switches.

3) Aquilani

i don’t need to say much here. if he’s good enough, fucking play him. if he’s not good enough, why the fuck was he signed to replace alonso? he needs a run of games to settle, not bits and pieces of football.

4) Signings

yes, rafa has signed pepe, agger, skrtel, masch, benny, torres, alonso, and arbeloa. great players and this is reason i still have faith in the man. but some of his signings (the likes of gonzalez, degen and zenden) are signed, given a few games in which they show they aren’t really up to it and then flicked off. it almost looks as though they’re bought blindly on reputations and it’s only then that rafa notices they’re not very good. with his highly acclaimed scouting network, how do these players come to the club in the first place? i know gonzalez’d had a good season before he was signed, and zenden had been borough’s player of the year, but they weren’t good enough and this should be realised before they’re signed, not after.

controversial point this one, and no doubt you’ll disagree, but rafa doesn’t seem to have the eye for composed players who are comfortable on the ball and confident in possession. even kuyt, lucas and babel, ngog and a few other current players really lack this quality. it’s what makes wenger so special and i’d like the boss to sign a few more arsenal-like players who seem to have time on the ball and the confidence to dink the ball past feet and into space.

5) Man-management

yes, i know the likes of torres, gerrard, john carew, and carra have all raved about rafa’s man-management in that he is tactics-obsessed and gives players incredibly explicit instructions on what he wants them to do. tactically, he’s a great man-manager, one of the best, but in terms of making fringe players feel wanted and hungry, he seems to fail imo. see above for aquaman and crouch, but also i think pacheco could’ve been given a bit more time. keane was a disaster and i don’t blame the boss for him, but still, i’m sure he could’ve been handled better. rafa famously doesn’t give praise and fair enough if that’s his style. he doesn’t celebrate goals either. he refuses to get carried away, and that’s very profesional of him, but maybe he could do more to keep his players happy by giving them time on the pitch at every opportunity.

i don’t know about that one and am only speculating, but that’s the way it appears.

as i said, i’m generally pro-rafa and find myself continually sticking up for him with my mates, but in here there’s plenty of us pro-rafa types so it seems like the appropriate place to get these whinges off my chest.

YNWA

AC Milan are shit – the average age of their bench was 34!!!!

in fact the Italian league is fairly pants – don’t really rate Inter either and I fully expect the Chavs to go through next week

you’ll notice i’ve prefixed every opinion with “yes, i know…”. that’s because if i don’t do that, someone like keith launches in, ignores the point i’ve actually made, and angrily tells me something else i already know that’s vaguely related!

some interesting points Sambo

I’ve always had problems with some of Rafa’s team selections and substitutions – for me his most glaringly BAD team choice was one that is now generally forgotten – AC Milan in 2005. His decision to leave out Hamann to shackle Kaka was scandalous and I remember being shocked when I saw his omission and Kewell starting.

another one was his decision to not play Crouch against AC in 2007 -choosing Gerrard to play off the non-paceful entity that is Kuyt. I have no doubt in my mind that that decision (and his subsequent delay in bringing Crouch on) cost us that final

But essentially I’m being a bit petty – managers make mistakes. Taggart got his CL Final team selection wrong in 1999 and we all know how that ended!

I’ve been swaying to and fro since Christmas about whether or not this season is a blip or if Rafa has gone as far as he can with this team

Ok lets say we have no money to spend in the summer – do we still want a man in charge who (potentially) is unable to motivate his players any more?

And on the flip side – say we do have (some) money in the summer do we really want Rafa in charge of more expensive flops (Aquilani and Keane)? Ok I’m being cheeky suggesting Aquilani was / is a flop but the evidence suggests that he just might

Prove me wrong Aquilani tonight!!!!

yeah, i didn’t really mean for that to be an attack on rafa’s ‘mistakes’ in the past. it was more that i do still want him in charge, we don’t have any money for new players, so the way i see it, there are some things he could do better right now that would give us a better chance for the future i.e give fringe players more game-time where he can, make more impact from the bench, and look to sign composed (not necessarily expensive) players.

actually, i’m feeling a bit sheepish for having a whinge in these hard times, especially with a big game today, but i just needed to get that shit off my chest because all i seem to do is stick up for him outside this blog.

go you mighty reds!

when i say ‘sign’ composed players, i mean trade in a few that we’ve got. we need more calm on the ball

That’d be my team too Arthur. I read somewhere that Lille have only lost twice at home this season so they’re gonna be a tough nut to crack. I’d be delighted with a draw, preferably 1-1! Good points Aitch LB and Sambo. Dont worry Red, Barca will do the mancs again and hopefully Arsenal can steal the league, alls not lost yet!

http://www.tomkinstimes.com has added 2 good articles.2-o tonight to the Reds.

Been looking at the official LFC site, and it seems the Lille coach is a great admirer of Rafa – makes special mention of his dedication & ‘wonders if Rafa has a life’.
Rafa is also on the site, saying that he is pleased with Aqua’s performance against Wigan (after coming on), but is worried about his match fitness. I therefore see him starting on the bench (unfortunately). I can’t see Rafa starting without Kuyt, Lucas & Masch in the same team – it is an away game, Lille have only lost 2 at home all season, and this is the only bit of silverware we are playing for. All this equates to a cautious approach, with (obviously) Torres as a means to steal an away win.
Like all of you, I am praying that Aqua does get a start…but I doubt it.
In Rafa I (still) Trust.

Arthur, correct me if I am wrong, but the way I read between the lines on your post #128, you have already made up your mind with regards to Rafa inability to take us forward.

Both sides of your coin suggest Rafa is the problem. Even with the word ‘potentially’ thrown in. And then, even when we have the money in the summer, you feel Rafa will make expensive flops, with Aquilani and Keane as the examples (how much of a flop has Aquilani cost us so far?), although you go on to say Aquilani ‘might’ be one, based on the ‘evidence’.

So, is your stand really Rafa should be out no matter what? Because the flip side when fund is available could be trusting Rafa to buy us the likes of the nonexpensive-flops he has purchased.

As for the Rafa’s team selections and substitutions with the two examples you gave, I don’t think anyone can outrightly call them BAD, even with the benefit of hindsight. I personally don’t think football is that simple.

Aaron Cutler’s article on the main site is well worth a read – Whether you agree with it or not!

Been busy last few days Gerry good blog as usual.

Aitch sorry to hear about your situation.

Congrats on the little one Redman i hope all are fit and healthy and don`t forget to stick thyme into the stew pal

The performance the other night was shocking to the core.The players seemed to forget how to play the “simple game”.

Instead of looking around for everyone else to grab the game by the scruff of the neck the players should have took it upon themselves starting with the captain.His body language when things aren`t going his way is worrying.He shouldn`t sulk about it just do something avout it.Encourage his players around him to do same.When they fall down pick them up and gee them instead of having a moan.

I don`t want to critisise stevie too much e has been our best player for years now and could very well go on to be the greatest but his job as a captain isn`t just to stick on the armband and be first to walk out on to the pitch.He has a responsibility on the pitch to stick by his comrades when they go to war.

None of the others on the night can be void of critisism either only pepe and masch in my book can say they put a shift in.

Dosen`t bode well for the next couple of games which include the mancs who are on fire at the moment.
We need to get back on the horse starting tonight.

Benny didn`t travel due to ankle trouble so i hope Aquallini gets a start tonight.I hope we go there with an attacking mindset and take it too Lille from the start.

My team would be..

Reina
Kelly,carra,paddy,insua

masch,Aquallini
babel,gerrard,riera

I`ve noted a couple of changes there.I like to see masch back in the middle.He can do a job at right back in a 999 but he`s the dogs bollacks in the middle so he`s back in for me.

He`ll give Aquallini the licence to go and link with Stevie and Torres.Also with babel out right with his pace hopefully he can cause some problems.

I seen a few have called for the return of riera and i`m in agreement.I feel he can keep the width on the left and link well with the others.

Time to get positive in these difficult times.

PS

Forgot to stick nando in there that would be handy..

Also a word on kelly.With Agger still out (i presume) i`d like to see a natural full back in there other than masch.

SonofKhan – I was playing devil’s advocate – to a certain extent.

Put this way – I’m very unsure..but if someone put a gun to my head and said – Rafa in or Rafa Out…

I’d probably say that i think Rafa’s gone as far as he can with this team…it would be a tough choice..but thats how I feel right now

of course I could be wrong

Sly sports is just sickening.Its nothing but a rooney arse kissing session.

Footballs biggest hypocrisy..

Green and white scarfs wrapped around £40 replica shirts.

And Fat sam let it go you pathetic man.Are you so starved of attention you have to attack our manager every week.Your not in his league you dimwhit.You never will be.Your a relegation fodder managar who will never be anything more and your a bitter castard to boot with a big fat ugly head which is gone brown from permanently having it up the tramps arse and you continue to chew that gum you sucked out of the tramp while you were up hi shitpipe.

Other than that Sam your not too bad.

Jayus Timmy tell us what you really think of the man -
He is an arse though – probably under orders from the tramp to stick the knife in when Rafa’s under pressure

Congratulations Redman – get em wrapped up in Red or heavens forbid they might start turning Blue

As for Rafa having lost the dressing room I think Gerrard and Carra should now come out and fully back the manager and the team – lets gets a bit of fighting spirit back

We need a big performance from the boys tonight – get some belief back

So, some people have already decided that Rafa has hit the wall. A few, a little earlier than I would like but to each his own. The question for the rest of you, is when are you going to start having those thoughts? We all know that sometimes a new manager brings in a new philosophy and new ideas and things work out as in the case of Barca. They had a terrible year then Pep came in and look what happened. Of course there is no guarantee that could happen and also there is no guarantee that Rafa can get the boys playing like they did close of last season.
Teams go through a slump now and then over a period of a few weeks but how do you react when the slump lasts one full season? Do we give it one more season or cut our losses?
I personally have been a huge Rafa fan since he joined and still am. I honestly don’t know when I’m going to start thinking that a new manager might be the best option but I sure as hell am not happy with the way the team is playing right now.
Confusing times indeed….

Good post Idhawan – I know I may be premature in thinking Rafa should go but it’s been such an awful season – certain serious have to be asked about whether or not the manager can arrest this slide

Its too easy to say Rafa has lost the dressing room.I think its an easy statement for one to make if they believe the manager has taken them as far as he can.
When we lost to reading the lost the dressing room thing really started.Then we went and beat the spuds and everton with the players fighting like their lives depended on it.We get a couple more decent results although losing to arse many felt we showed a good attitude.Rafa had the dressing room back.
We lose to wigan,albeit baldy he has lost the dressing room again.
What happens if we win tonight,monday and get something at the toilet?

Will he have found it again?

What is this a game of hide and seek.

I believe if a manager has “lost the dressing room” then thats it.There`s no going bak.Things cannot get better.

I believe this has not happened at Liverpool.I believe the players as well as rafa need to look in the mirror and realise their role in performances such as monday night.They are better than they are showing but seem to wait for the next guy to do something about it instead of all of them pulling their socks up and making a difference collectively.Starting tonight.

A manager change would do more harm than good.Rafa Benitez love him or loath him is an A-list manager.His record speaks for itself and all the big european clubs would gratefully have him.We are lucky to have him but unlucky that he is unable to do the job to the best of his potential.All the best managers had financial backing and Rafa has not hsd that so..

Have we really seen how far Rafa can take us?

Would a manager of a lesser calibre(lets face it,any replacement would be) do better on the same budget? (don`t think budget is the correct word)

IMHO i think absolutely not.

So i hope Rafa does stay.He`ll drive me mad sometimes wth decisions but in the overall context of everything thats going on,i`d keep him at the helm.

Yeah Steve good article. Basically what I’ve been saying in here verbatim for mths. So of course I’m gonna say its good! But your right, whatever your point of view its sobering reading and probably written in a more palatable way than I’ve been managing! Tim I’d be shocked if Riera starts tonight. Wheres he been the last few wks? Who knows whats going on there? Not me. Whenever the epilogue on Rafas tenure is written there’ll be a lot of unravelling to do. We’ve got some amount of bio reading ahead of us.

Aitch, sorry to learn about your job. Hang in there buddy, YNWA. Timmy your post at 139 was a classic. For how long have you been waiting to get that off your chest?

As regards the current plight of our team, Monday night’s horror show epitomised our problems. I’m usually optimistic and I generally see the bottle as half full. I’ve been confident that we would finish in the top 4 until Monday’s horror show. To those who had the privilege of missing the game, I will say that it was very painful to watch.

Only Pepe and perhaps Mascherano could hold their heads high. The most disappointing aspect was the lack of any desire or fighting spirit. I’m tempted to believe that those who talked about discord in the team may have a point although I hope that is not the case.

We can still salvage what’s left of the season if the boys are prepared to roll up their sleeves and fight for the cause. I hope that will start tonight against a Lille team that will most certainly be up for the game. My team will be

Pepe
Johnson Carra Agger Insua

Kuyt Masch Gerrard Babel

Aquilani

Torres

Timmy,
still laughing my tits off about fat Sam,
thyme eh buddy i normally just put mixed herbs in but i’ll have a go at your recipe.
Apart from Shanks until present day Rafa, how many other LFC managers have had to scrimp and save like those two, none that i know of and i know we have never been a manc or a real madrid where spending on players is concerned but all the others have had a lot more than those two (taking into consideration inflation) and done the job that they have done, even the great Bob Paisley inherited a pretty decent side.
So to start suggesting that Rafa has taken the Reds as far as he can is fuckin ludicrous, especially when he wants certain players and 9 times out of 10 gets fucked off or the other fuckin cretin goes out and buys one for him, Keane anyone.

Just read the Aaron Cutler article. I only agree with the bit about Babel. The rest just seemed like a rant and I could pick apart a lot of the points within it. Can’t be arsed though.

Pearcey the predictor who’s kicking all your butts in the Kopblog 2 prediction league says 2-1 to Lille tonight. Any other offers?

Aaron Cutler – I agree wholeheartedly on his Lucas stance. After that it’s a bit hit and miss

http://www.thesportreview.com/tsr/2010/03/why-rafael-benitez-is-still-the-right-man-for-liverpool/ Nice Article…

Sambo good post in 125.
You set out your premise and you supported it. And you organized it well.

But I do think there are some holes in the logic… or perhaps its just that you take the logic so far… but then you fail to take the next step.

I was following you in point 1… but then at the end, you state that Crouch “would’ve been happy to stay and fight for his place if he’d been shown any faith whatsoever”
I’m sorry but how can you know that? He’s never said that publicly to my knowledge.

Ask yourself this… (all of you)
With Spurs spending more, and challenging for 4th, and LFC “plummeting” to 6th while not spending big…
…if you could sign for LFC, get 40k per week, but know that you are only going to get a few games, a few on the bench, and play half the season in the reserves…
…or…
… be a starter at Spurs every week on 80k per week…
… what would you do?

In point 2 you make a very compelling case for all the times Rafa made mistakes in his team selections and substitution decisions.
We lost or drew those games, so yes… it does make your arguments… and objectively… we have to at least consider it, even if we don’t agree or concede to it.

But again… here is the problem.
The very same Rafa made the team selections and substitutions in ALL the games we won… and we have won, in his time at Anfield, and this season, more games … far more games… than we have lost or drawn!

you point to Didi Hamman in Istanbul. Absolutely spot on. The man got it wrong, admitted it at half time and the rest is history.

But what about subbing Lucas for SG in the Derby game. Lucas hits what would have been the winner, but for a hand ball on the line, which Kuyt then converted from the spot.
That’s one example… there are more.

Yes sometimes Rafa’s substitution decisions do not get us the result we desire/require….
… but it is a myth of the highest order to suggest that that is always the case.
There have been countless instances of his subs scoring important goals.

There are myriad reasons in modern football that certain decisions get made. Yes, footy is still footy. You run with the ball, you pass the bal, you shoot the ball. Its not fuckin rocket science.
But Modern footy is a different animal to the game Shanks managed, or even the one Kenny managed.

I’d bet money that Aqualani’s omission is more to do with busines than footy/fitness.
I can’t prove that. Its purely speculation on my part.
But what is NOT speculation is that we didn’t pay 18 million for him.
We paid 4 million.
If the lad plays a certain number of games we have to cough up an additional 4 million in the summer.
So WHERE is that 4 million going to come from? And would we have to sacrifice the aquisition of Arda Turan, or “insert names here” in order to make that payment?
I don’t know. But it is an interesting question you may want to bear in mind the next time some Sky Pundit tells you Rafa’s decision to not include him makes no sense whatsoever.

As for Lille…

forget the cavalier, throw caution to the wind approach.

Lille are no mugs and this is our ONLY hope of salvaging our season.

Keep it tight.

Christ… play 6-4-0 if you have to and bring a 0-0 …or better yet nick a goal against the run of play… and bring it back to Anfield.

Well Aitch we did as you said…oh and look – we got beaten, AGAIN

Not that I’m blaming you Aitch

but despite having two decent chances (Babel and Torres) we were never more than average and at times we were again downright awful. It might not have been as bad as the Wigan match but it was still shit.

Kuyt was terrible – again and yet he takes Babel off??? And oh here something I haven’t written before…..WHERE THE FUCK WAS AQUILANI???

fuck it – disillusioned doesn’t even begin to describe it. Lille are ordinary, plain and simple. The goal we conceded may as well have been the poster goal for our entire campaign

I genuinely can see them scoring at Anfield and I have to say I dont have much hope in us scoring 3 against them.

and before anyone kicks off…yea the pitch was bad..shite actually but I saw only one team keep it on the ground and pass it about and wasn’t the lads in white!!

over and out – rant over (sigh)

what more can anyone say on the matter everyone has a point of view and most are valid but i think we can all agree that we are SHITE in every department except in goal. its gonna take one hell of a turn around between now and the end of the season to see anything other then rafa being gone whether we like it or not because were not gonna finish in the top 4. I think we might beat the mancs though which would at least be two good results in a long long long season…

Ok i`ll try to be positive here.

Its only half time.

Ok thats that.

The performances are starting to worry me now.During the season i`ve always said we`ll come good in the second half of the season but time is running out now.

I still fancy us to turn it around in the second leg but i wouldn`t be putting my house on it.

Gerrard needs a kick up the hole.Dirk,Insua and Lucas need a rest.Aquallini needs games.Rafa needs to freshen things up.He cannot continue to reward bad performances with another start the following game.Players will take their position in the team for granted.Some already have.There needs to be a shake up somewhere,time is running out and the margin for error is squeezing tighter all the time.

Author you kind of contradicted yourself there a bit pal calling Lille ordinary and then said they will score at Anfield and we can`t score 3

I agree with Timmy.Kuyt,Insua & Lucas do need a rest.

I would pair Johnson and Babel(always hoping he’ll come good) down the right side of the team.

And play gerrard and masch together in central midfield for the rest of the season.

Aquilani behind Torres.Aurelio and benny onion down the left.Agger & Carragher in central defence.
And obviously the brilliant Reina in goal.My team for the run in would be
REINA
JOHNSON CARRAGHER AGGER AURELIO

MASCHERANO GERRARD

BABEL AQULIANI BENAYOUN

TORRES

Re 156:The players in my lineup are primarily attack minded.

Besides Reina,Carragher & mascherano.
I think this is the blend we need in the first team we have to get the oppositon on the back foot more.
We seem to pick a defensive team and try to get them to attack.When in all the best teams its normally the other way around.
When the small teams see we have set out our team to defend it gives them confidence.I can understand the need to be pragmatic when playing against the big boys.But we are not ruthless enough on the counter attack to play the way we do at the moment.
We need to batter the small teams.I mean if you saw a run of games like we have had recently we would have expected better.
We are truly awful at the moment
YNWA

Hi gang,

Online at last. Just caught the last 30 mins of the Lille game. Apart from Babel’s shot and his edge I saw little of any positive note. Insua and Torres both booked for ranting at an obviously very uptight Ref. A scrappy goal on a crappy pitch leaves us in a sticky situation indeed. Very tricky.
What happened our midfield though ? They ran rings around us for the last 30mins. We gave the ball away constantly, nothing stuck up front at all. Balls.

Just wanted to say Congrads to Redman, Granda and cook supreme. Way to go my man.
Sorry to hear Aitch about the job situation, bummer.

Great posts here too. Just scanned so looking to sit back and have a good read now.

This is breaking my heart!! What a fuckin all round diaster, barring mash pepe and torress the rest don’t deserve to be paid. Ah well atleast I’m not a glory hunting scumbag fuckin vermon man u supporter.

I thought Babel looked up for it. Him and Torres looked like they were trying to get something going at times. Inevitably Babel gets the hook on 70 mins. Certain players just start and stay on for over 80 mins regardless how they perform.
As for Aquilani not getting a look in again…. sigh.

I’m reading the book: Why England Lose & other curious football phenomena explained. It’s a fascinating read. I highly recommend it.

Great posts lots of good points all, Sambo agree completly mate,perhaps not on all the bad signings as thats par for the colurse for most managers. However your spot on about gonzales…what the fuck we got him 4 i’ll never know.

I havent posted 4 a while cause i like to keep the faith and look at the positives and all i want to do is moan about the state of our creative play latlely but…fuck it, just watched the lille midfield pass and move and seroiusly made ours look slightly drunk!!!, hell even wigan passed and moved better than us…im seriously at a loss as to why we dont pass out of defense anymore and our mid field is slow and our passing is woefull.

Now against wigan lucas made some beautiful passes but one or two dont make up for losing the ball 3-4 times in 15 mins , im not setting him apart tho as he has been one of our better players, to many players cant pass the fucken ball 3 yrds in front of them…id drop kyut..insua st8 away and start giving aqua a go..he came on against wigan and passed and moved st8 away and his 1 touch passing seems to be the best in the team so for fucks sake play him before i die of boredom..i dont give a fuck if we lose,not if we lose tryin to play football,maybe aitch is right and there not playin aqua because they cant afford to pay the 4 mill in the summer…if your right mate then we are already fucked!!

oh and before you post i love and will suppert liverpool forever regardless of who manages /owns or plays 4 them….i know rafa has the goods and the players but these performances are gut wrenchin when …ah fuck yev all been watchin.

Well at least Millie Clode was presenting SSN tonight!….

Aitch on the subject of jobs.
Can you imagine working for a company that has a little more than 500 employees and has the following statistics:
1. 29 have been accused of spousal abuse
2. 7 have been arrested for fraud
3. 19 have been accused of writing bad checks
4. 117 have directly or indirectly bankrupted at least 2 businesses
5. 3 have done time for assault
6. 71 cannot get a credit card due to bad credit
7. 14 have been arrested on drug-related charges
8. 8 have been arrested for shoplifting
9. 21 are currently defendants in lawsuits
10. 84 have been arrested for drunk driving in the last year
Can you guess which organization this is?
Give up yet?
It’s the 535 members of the United States Congress.
The same group of idiots that crank out hundreds of new laws each year designed to keep the rest of us in line.
Just come across it, dont know if its true but by the look of it some vacancies might become available.
PS
Performance tonight was a little bit better than the Wigan game
YNWA

I have almost written this season off and hope somehow we can salvage 4th place and win the Europa Cup. Getting lost of flak from the Scum supporters out here.

Do me a favor Samabo leave me out of your comments; you have stated that you prefer Burgerbrain intelligent analysis so let’s leave it at that.

However seeing that you had a pop at me and just to amuse Son of Jan and to contradict myself (Diggger I take the piss out of you for fun not to be condescending or snide, just banter and Son Of Jan has a nicer ring to it that Digger, after all you did call me a Nazi storm trooper and fully paid up member of the KKK once)

Rafa bought Speedy because he got him at the right price and surprise, surprise sold him at a profit when it was obvious that he would not make it in the prem. Simoa was his first choice but the Mars Bar and packet of chips where just not enough.

The other great pronouncement Degen and Zenden came on a free because he does not have a pot to piss in and has to gamble of freebees to make do and strengthen the squad some how.

Everybody quickly forgets how dire we where under Ged, what Rafa ha accomplished on a shoe string budget. Yes this year is an utter fuck up and I cannot fathom why nothing seems to what to go our way. Lets call, it one of those things.

However we have qualified every year under Rafa for the CL, something that did not happen for a very long time before, despite all those previous managers having substantial transfer fund in comparison. His man management aloud us to accomplish this fact as well as finishing second last year with a record points haul and all of a sudden, with his hands tied and with the horrendous set of events that has happened this year he has taken us as far as he can.

Go figure.

allowed –sorry

Woke up this morning…..and no, still disillusioned about it all

Well fuck it Arthur go back to sleep.

haha Redman – stuck at work so that wont happen.

anyway I see Rafa is doing his best to put a positive spin on the performance- I suppose he has to do that

Why was Kuyt playing in the right back/all over the shop position?.Still can’t defend a set piece.Evans and Houllier finished their final seasons with 65 and 64 points.Will this year be any better?.Not even making the last 8 of the Europa would be even worse than GH managed!.If Rafa is offered the Real job, it would make a lot of sense for all parties if he accepted it.Wouldn’t be surprised if the Mancs win all their remaining games and finish on 90 points, the gap between the Reds and the top would be as wide as it was under Souey and Ged.Truly depressing.

Fair enough Keith, I enjoy a joke as much as the next guy but after prolonged use of a joke dosent it become grating and worst of all where jokes are concerned: unfunny? You could be Jerry Seinfeld but if you keep using the same material…..Anyway, you mention amnesia in regards to Geds direness. I dont think I’ll be forgetting this season mate. Would you say this season is less dire than Geds last?

Ged’s last season was awful – but the one before was actually worse (where we failed to qualify for CL but won the Fizzy Pop Cup against Utd)

Either way I’m seeing the same lack of effort, ideas, inspiration and fuck it…entertainment this season as we did during the end days under Ged.

So Burgerbrain,
we come back to the basic question that has been asked in here a thousand times if you had your way, WHO DO WE PLACE RAFA WITH.
Arthur if your work effort is on a par with your comments i dont think your boss will miss you.

Offer the job to Taggart mark 2-McLeish, doubt if he will accept it.One correction, Ged had 60 points in his final season, 64 was the previous season’s total.Evans averaged 67 points (over 38 games) during his four years and finished third and fourth both twice.The euro displays were dire, similar to this season.

We never played attractive football under Houllier. Yes, we won the treble that time but it was all about long balls and grafting. You guys are too quick to compare footballing styles between the two managers. Just remember how we played last year and also remember how Valencia played under Rafa. Don’t you think that is his goal? This season is a write off but we can’t throw away 5 good years over over acheiving because of one bad one, which is long overdue considering that as many as 6 or 7 teams can afford to spend more than we can during the transfer windows. Hell, how many strikers do Spurs have? They even bought Keane back from us and turned around and sold him off again yet Rafa only gets the stick for that. They paid a lot of dough for the strikers they have and can’t even play all of them.
You guys need to calm yourselves down….

Meow Redman – when you doing your latest stand-up routine?

The whole “who do we replace Rafa with?” arguement by the “Keep Rafa Brigade” is a convenient way for them to bury their collective heads in the sand by claiming there is no one better than Rafa so we may as well just keep him!

That’s no arguement at all. Of course with a new managerial appointment there comes an element of risk.

I would say O’Neill or Mourinho would be worth a go in my eyes – if Rafa does go at the end of the season

‘long ball and grafting’….remind you of any current situation Idhawan? Calm down mate? We’re all very calm. Look at this thread since last night, its almost serene compared to a comparable result earlier in the season. We’re immune to it now, almost accepting. The ones who accept the reality of what they’re seeing and the inevitable outcome seem extremely calm from where I’m standing. Its people telling us about Valencia and how many strikers spurs have that need to calm down dont ya think?

Anyway, was talking with a friend last night and we both agreed that the only way to restore a bit of pride put something of a shine on this season would be to batter the manckers again at their place. It was then that he came up with the sneakily brilliant plan of ‘then we should field the reserves against Chelsea, ya know, Mc Carthy style, to really fuck them over’. Genius! Taggart would spontaneously combust! I think we should do it!

http://www.nme.com/news/daily/49459.Brilliant.

Digger,I almost spilled my drink over the computer due to laughter after reading your comment at 178. Having said that, I’ll jump at the idea if it stops manure from winning the title.

Arthur with regard to your comment at 176, if you believe that Rafa should be given the boot then those who disagree with you are perfectly entitled to ask you to suggest a possible replacement. They are not ‘burying their collective heads in the sand’. That question may arise sooner or later depending on whether Rafa decides to leave or is shown the door.

In the context of the season,I can’t wait for it to be over because describing it as a nightmare is an understatement. I think it was Digger who made the point that many fans are not too shocked because they come to terms with the dissapointing season. I’m definitely at that phase.

I can’t say that I’m comfident that we’ll qualify for the last 8 of the Europa League and I’m slowly bracing myself for the possibility that we’ll finish outside the top 4. The fact that we still have a chance is mainly due to the inconsistent form of the other contenders. I really hope that I’m wrong but the evidence tells me otherwise.

Aitch

Can you shed some more light in the Aquilani deal? I’ll be very worried if he’s not being played due to the finances. That may suggest that the club is in a bigger financial hole than I suspected.

Owen’s wife kicks him out due to affairs

http://www.nme.com/news/daily-gossip/50196

Anyone got needle and cotton so i can sew my sides up after reading #176,
Arthur what makes you think that Oneill or Mourhino would come to Anfield with the financial restraints imposed on them like it is with Rafa, and not a fuckin carrot to spend, come on explain your plan on how we gonna get one or the other you footballing genius you.

Well all I can say is that it was a better performance than against Wigan. I am not sure how to get out of this current malaise but thumping Portsmouth would be a good start.

I agree with Idhawan, we can’t just jettison Rafa after just one bad year out of six and this is not even considering the injuries that we’ve had this season.

AGP, if Mourinho was ever to become manager of LFC then I would seriously have to consider ditching this whole footballing lark. The man is the anti-thesis of everything Liverpool FC stands for.

Congrats theredman on the new addition to the family. Sorry to hear about the job situation Aitch.

keith, do me a favour mate and actually bother reading the posts rather than ignoring the point made and reacting to something that hasn’t been said (ironic as that’s exactly what i accused you of in the last post). i never said i prefer burgerman’s analysis, i just said i’d rather have a pint with him because he’s not a bitchy little cunt. your posts are always more intelligent, more informed, and more logical than his. it’s just that you come across as a thoroughly unlikeable man who is incapable of friendly debate whereas he seems like quite a good laugh. anyway, point taken, i’ll never mention you again.

on tonight’s game, another like-for-like switch on 70 minutes, but i don’t blame the manager for the recent performances anywhere near as much as i do the players. like the rest of you, i’m at a loss to explain the sudden inability to play football from the same team that destroyed all before it last year. what the hell is going on?!? it’s either that dr evil has stolen our mojo, or fat sam has stumbled upon a magic lamp and has chosen, typically, to sabotage our season with his 1 wish rather than make his team of cack-footed, ankle-hacking journeymen champions. i’ll keep supporting the boys as i always have. as FS said in his last post.. what can you do? keep supporting them. that’s all.

btw – pretty arrogant of FS to assume that any of us will go stalking him around the net now that he’s left! inflated ego as well as inflated gut!

YNWA

I would also seriously have to reconsider my stance as a Liverpool supported should we sign Jose Mourinho as a manager. That guy is almost as bad as Fat Sam! Only difference is that he won more titles, although their teams do play similar football.
Digger… the only person hot under the collar and spewing away is you. I say again… calm down dude.

Arthur, imagine you were a Portsmouth fan or member of staff. That’s disillusion.

With regards replacing Rafa with O’Neil or Mourinho.

Mourinho.

Realistically speaking do you think Mourinho would come to Liverpool in it’s current state? The man is a great manager but lets look at the clubs he has been successful at shall we. Porto – biggest club in Portugal with the most resources. Chelsea – the most resources in England during the time he was there. Inter – had already won the title 4 years in a row before he joined. You say you like attacking football but to my knowledge Jose sets his teams up in a similar way to Rafa: Hard working, difficult to break down, efficient rather than sexy. The only difference being that he’ll take more risks with his substitutions. Bare in mind that they have a similar record in Europe competitions. 1 UEFA cup and 1 CL each. Rafa has been to the final twice with Liverpool. Also 1 semi final and 1 quarter final. Jose took Chelsea to 1 semi final. Hasn’t managed to take Inter beyond the last 16.

O’Neil

Do you reckon O’Neil would get more out of Liverpool’s players than Rafa has? Where is your evidence to support this? He did well in Scotland with no competition. Never got out of the group stages in the CL with Celtic, never won an away game actually. At Aston Villa he has finished 11th, 6th, 6th. What makes you think he’d come to Liverpool with no dough to spend and do any better than we are currently doing? Again – similar to Mourinho, Martin O’Neil does not set his teams up to play a passing style of football. It’s defence first, with pace up front, hard working midfield. Get the ball into the final 3rd quickly and play from there.

With the club in the state it is in it would be very difficult to recruit a manager who is superior to Rafa. That isn’t sticking head in the sand it’s fucking realistic. I think to suggest we could attract Mourinho and any other top manager is in fact sticking your head in the sand. It implies that you simply do not realise that financially the club is in deep doo doo.

The Houllier situation is a lot different. Back then Liverpool were amongst the top spenders. Houllier’s major signings were crap. He was actually given money to take us to the next level after 2002 but he blew it on inferior players to what we already had. His last TWO seasons we were shite. 2002-03 we finished 5th. 2003-04 we finished 4th. We never enjoyed any CL run to speak of at all. Under Rafa we have qualified for the CL in every season and been a force in Europe hence the number 1 UEFA ranking not so long ago. We have finished above Arsenal more often than not and finished above Chelsea last year. This season so far has been poor but to sack Rafa after one poor season in my opinion would be a knee jerk decision – no scratch that, it would be a panic decision.

Arthur
Who would we replace Rafa with ? convenient excuse to bury our heads in the sand or have you got yours buried up your arse. Its a question of vital importance.
Do you really think that Maureen or Moaniel would leave a club that as a transfer budget to come to a club with no budget and two lying owners who may tell them they’ll have the money to spend on Snoogdy Doogy but they’ll know not to believe them. Even if new owners come in building our new stadium will be the priority and we’ll probably get a similar transfer budget to what Wenger got while paying for their stadium.
Basically i think Rafa and a few of the players have been holding out for a hero to come in and save us these last 2 years.After last season i’m sure SG wanted owner’s in place that could push on and provide the final push in the transfer market.Instead they got a tiring summer tour in the far east which was basically a marketing exercise and no money.
Dont know if Rafa has lost the dressing room but i know the owners have.

Thank you guys for the congrats,
little Mia says “keep the faith”.
Well said LB they where the words and logic i was looking for to answer Arthur, but trying to push your spleen back in while your commenting is a bit off putting.

LB
You beat me to it and put it much better than me.
BTW That Aaron Cutler article i couldnt be bothered typing out a long responce either so i just copied and pasted some of his own contradictory words from previous articles.
YNWA

I wonder if you guys know but after the club sacked Houllier they had 2 managers on their short list. Mourinho and Rafa. According to reports we approached Mourinho but as Chelsea offered him a bigger salary and promised a massive war chest he chose them. Parry then approached Rafa.

If Mourinho were at Anfield in 2004 do you think he’d have stayed at the club through all this Hicks and Gillett mess? Being undermined, lied to and given a zero transfer budget in the last 3 windows? I am pretty sure he’d have walked. I think most managers would have walked.

Which begs the question: Why DOES Rafa want to stay at LFC? Remember, Juve and Real Madrid are reported to be interested in him.

I think it’s one of 2 reasons or possibly both.

1. Rafa loves the club, the city and the fans.
2. He is stubbornly determined to succeed at Liverpool regardless of the situation.

I think due to professional pride he does not want to leave Liverpool having been perceived to have failed.

Thanks Gerry for the providing the only ray of sunshine in this shower of a season. Found an article that I think shows who the true supporters of LFC (and what it stands for) are. Enjoy:

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rorysmith/100005983/sacking-rafael-benitez-is-just-fiddling-while-liverpool-burn/?

By the way, Aitch and LB, I really enjoy your posts. Keep up the good work. Would be good to have FS back but less of the last few posts as not necessary. As for me, I’ll happily go down with the ship because of my love for it. Keep the faith and YNWA.

Hopefully this is the outcome..

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/3748/rafabenitez1.jpg

Sambo you are a complete and utter obnoxious twat. Not once I ever insulted or called anyone (bar smith and maybe burgerhulk for a laugh after his 6 “ 3 comment) silly childish names which you seem to love to stoop to. Yes if you write drivel and crap than expect it to be called such. I get sick of the same old stick to hit Rafa with, with actually crap arguments to back it up. How you can slam him for buying, on a free Degen and Zendan is the type of drivel that gets my blood boiling.

Do your self a favor and see how successful he actual has been in the market place before you pontificate. No wait I will past it for a seconded time for your education. It’s a bit out of date but even you should get the drift.

I also never heard a peep out of you about his man management last year or his substitutions when we where flying high. He still (not too sure if we take this year into account) has the best win ration bar Paisley and Daglish of any Liverpool manager. This year has been shit on a stick and I think I am being unfair to the shit on a stick. The factors have been discussed ad nauseam and it seems we cannot get out of this downward spiral.

If you have played sport at a high level, shit even school boy level you should understand that this can happen and when it does it is almost impossible to get out of the rut. Throw in the instability and injuries we have had is it any wonder we have had or are having the season we are having. It is an anomaly and we should back him for at least another year.

The players need to big up and take responsibility because unless they are willing to die for the cause we will not finish 4th or win the Europa cup or even get too the next round on current form. You can start with any combination or playing personal it will make no difference. The formations we are starting with swept all before them last year. We can start with our captain. That is another thing that really fucks me off Gerrard cannot find a team mate all night, looks half arsed and you get the comments Lucas is not good enough.

Sambo read and learn something and remember Rafa wanted to buy Vidic, Simoa, Alves, and a whole host of other people but was told we could not afford them so he had to bargain and trade up slowly selling to buy and even know he cannot get what he sold.

RECAP

Here is something I picked up a while back, a complete summery of Rafa’s dealings in the transfer market. I think it is exceptional considering his budget and what he had to work with and how much we needed to improve. Not to mention the short time at his disposal when he arrived. Also who was forced on him. This is why I will sit back and let him work his magic in the Silly season and not get all jittery at every rumor and headline. I did say I would past it after the season ended, Enjoy!

Lets address the “expensive” part of the argument first:
£20-30+ million: 1 (1)
Torres
£10-20 million: 4 (3)
Mascherano, Keane, Babel, Alonso
£5-10 million: 14 (9)
Dossenna, Riera, Agger, Skrtel, Reina, Benayoun, Leiva, Kuyt, Pennant, Crouch, Bellamy, Sissoko, Morientes, Garcia
£0-5 million: 47 (36)
Degan, Cavelieri, Ngog, Plessis, Insua, Leto, Itandje, Voronin, Arbeloa, El Zhar, Aurelio, Palletta, Fowler, Kromkamp, Barragan, Nunez, Zenden, Gonzalez, Carson, Pellegrino, Josemi, Martin, Antwi, Hobbs, Miki Roque, Gulacsi, Anderson, Poloskei, Crowther, Hansen, Saric, Ayala, Weijl, Blanco, Flora, Mendy, Ajdarevic, Simon, Bouzanis, Nemeth, Pacheco, Palsson, Brouwer, Durán, Huth, Domínguez,
(Numbers in brackets are players still at the club)
It is easy to see that the majority of Rafa’s signings have been below the £10 million mark and nothing like the fabrication that he has bought mostly “expensive” signings.
Especially when you consider that 49 of his signings are still at the club and the selling on fee cannot yet be determined.
Here are some more comments and claims made about Rafael Benitez:
“He has bought 53 players for £190 million and sold 56 for £108 million, clearly a loss of £82 million proves he doesn’t have a clue in the transfer market.”
This is a full rundown of Rafael Benitez’ signings since he joined Liverpool in June 2004:
Players bought in by Benitez: 66
Players still at the club: 49
First Team: 18
Alonso, Reina, Agger, Aurélio, Kuyt, Arbeloa, Mascherano, Lucas, Torres, Itandje, Benayoun, Babel, Skrtel, Degen, Dossena, Cavalieri, Ngog, Riera.
Reserve Team: 22
El Zhar, Insúa, Palsson, Brouwer, Durán, Huth, Domínguez, Pacheco, Nemeth, Plessis, Hansen, Saric, Ayala, Weijl, Blanco, Flora, Mendy, Ajdarevic, Simon, Bouzanis, Crowther, Poloskei
Out on Loan: 9
Andriy Voronin, Jermaine Pennant, Sebastian Leto, David Martin, Godwin Antwi, Jack Hobbs, Miki Roque, Peter Gulacsi, Paul Anderson

A figure of 49 players bought by Rafa are still playing for the club with the majority (22) bought as youth players for the reserve team—with the idea for future revenue if they perform to their potential. It will also save the club a great deal of money if they turn out to be superstars worth a large transfer fee.
From that 49 figure, there are 18 still playing for the first team and contributing on a very large scale with the majority of them being priced by many as a greater figure than when the players were initially bought by Rafa.
From the nine players out on loan, only two are established players with the other seven being young reserve players gaining experience at other clubs—with the hope of either returning to Liverpool’s first team or making a profit to invest in future transfers.

Players Sold On by Benitez: 56
Players Bought By Other Managers and Sold on by Benitez: 39
Players bought and sold on by Rafa Benitez: 17
For me, this is the key point from which poorly informed debaters’ opinions collapse. Most propaganda articles or rival supporters will wildly claim that Rafa has sold 56 players and made little money in return.
They claim the “majority” of the 56 players the Liverpool manager has sold on have been at a loss and “proves” his failings in the transfer market. This is such a misleading statement to make that I really don’t know how people can still get away with it.
Benitez cannot be held accountable for selling a player at a loss when Benitez was not the one who identified the player as a target in the first place or sanctioned the over-inflated transfer fee.
You can only really judge him on the players he has bought and sold since he has been at the club and this brings the true figure down to just 17 players.

Profit: 7
Carson +2.25, Barragan +0.43, Sissoko +2.6, Crouch +4.0, Gonzalez +2.0, Bellamy +1.5, Nunez +0.5
Loss: 6
Garcia -2.0, Morientes -3.3, Palletta -0.8, Josemi (swapped for) Kromkamp -0.25, Idrizaj -0.19, Keane -3.0 (could be even less depending on contract triggers)
Even: 4
Pellegrino, Zenden, Fowler, Padelli (all four players were brought in and moved on for a free transfer)

So the true extent of Rafa’s failings in the transfer market is just six players from 17, coming with a loss of just under £10 million within four and a half years—the most expensive loss being just £3.3 million; nothing like the losses achieved by other established Premier League managers.
On the flip side the profit he has made is over 13 mill in total Rafa’s dealings in the transfer market has made us a profit.
Hopefully that one more media myth that’s been eradicated.
This does not take into account the profits of the players we have recently sold, Hobbs, Anderson etc.

You can know add Alonso to this equation at a 20 odd million profit.

Probably spot on LB, Rafa has his pride.

If rumours are to be believed, then Real or Juve would gladly snap him up.

I must admit that I have thought about what keeps Rafa at Anfield before (mainly because of the current owners) I mean, who else could have stopped themselves from walking after the wankers were sounding out Klinsmann?

The conclusion? Rafa either really does love LFC or he is a masocist!

Here’s a coincidence. Gerry has given this blog the title: “I don’t like Monday’s” and who should I bump into at Heathrow the other day?

Bob Geldof himself! You couldn’t make it up, could ya?

It seems I missed the memo re: Comedy Fridays.

“because he’s not a bitchy little cunt.”
I don’t do text-speak, so I never understood all that LFMAO and LOL stuff until now!

“That may suggest that the club is in a bigger financial hole than I suspected.”
oh dear??? just… oh dear???

“O’Neill or Mourinho would be worth a go in my eyes”
wait, wait… I have a stitch…

“we should field the reserves against Chelsea, ya know, Mc Carthy style, to really fuck them [Scum] over”
stop it now, you’re killing me…

“Offer the job to Taggart mark 2-McLeish”
oh fuck, it hurts now, stop making me laugh, sotp it please.

“I have almost written this season off”
..almost… bahhahha… no wait… that shits not funny!

Aitch, I am not sure if we’ll get McLeish. I hear that Real, Barca, Inter, AC and Juve are all in for him. However, I’m sure that he will choose us because WE ARE LIVERPOOL!

Oh or was that just newspaper talk from a few weeks ago that McLeish was the Liverpool’s ‘preferred’ replacement for Benitez. I think that it was in the S*n or the daily manc. I can’t be sure.

TT, Gerry, I forgot to tell you that I received the print last week. It’s one of Nick Tanner

Many thanks to you both.

Great posts on why moaninho isn’t wanted nor required.

I will add one more point:

Mourinho substituted Huth on as a forward and instructed long balls to him when he was chasing a CL game a few years back.
You still want him as our manager arthur? That tactical genius

Sorry boy’s,
Taggart mark 2-mcleish” has joined THE A TEAM, sorry Arth nice try.

Part 1

Well I still have not got around to reading all the comments…. maybe just as well. Thanks for the breakdown Keith, maybe if Aitch is still looking for a job he could set up an on-line course on post-analysis!
Great Post 186 LB. I can never figure why MO’N would be considered a good call unless you figure he has a history of getting teams to the final of the league Cup?
Mourinho … you know, on a weird day for him I could see him going for it. There is an element of the rebel in him and he knows there is something special about the Club and everything that goes with it. After all we’ve rodgered him and his high price whores on a number of memorable occasions, funnily eough he did us in the League Cup tho’ … (So maybe he is on the way here !). He’d also like to succeed (better) Rafa.
He’d have the passion, the dark cracked edges, the highs the drive and will of the club … to match his own view of himself. He’s religous/catholic i think and I think there is still a strong undercurrent of that in Liverpool.
Anyway it won’t happen I reckon because we’re broke, too many supporters of the real kind really do not like him, and all other reasons above (186).

As for Rafa and why he just doesn’t go …. again you’re right LB, he’s just plain stubborn and he’s put so much into this project he ain’t going until he makes / breaks it.
He’ll never do this again, in my opinion.
There has been a mountain (of inadequate players post GH) to get rid off. Another mountain to climb to construct a squad to challange and ressies to support the first team. He had to also construct a backround team right through the whole club. It’s been 3 major jobs on top of actually planning, preparing, training and playing matches.
All of this done against a backround of uncertainty and constant undermining by ignorant venture capitalist owners.
His family are settled in Liverpool, he can now understand the locals (joke), he’s got his sarcie wit down to a tee (king kenny would be so proud).
He has worked his proverbial knackers off and I don’t think he’s gonna walk so easy.
I hope he doesn’t because I’d not only love him to succeed but I think he can (whereas GH, in the end, was never going to succeed, in my opinion).

Next post is on the way…

Part 2

Now that I’ve calmed down after the second part in the 5 match opportunity to watch Liverpool play I am thinking the following;

There is something wrong indeed.
The football is pretty crap, I think so. It’s 90% the same Squad and team as last year’s epic season end, it’s the same manager but the mix is not working.

I defer to keith and Aitch, to those of us who have played and managed. I understand the reasons and the view, injuries, lack of confidence in general.
But I also see players simply not performing. It’s easy now to point a finger at Gerrard who has been patchy, negative and disinterested (and maybe carring an injury) but at other times Carra, Skrtyl, Insua, Johnson, Mascher, kuyt, Torres, Babel, Riera, Benny Onion just to name those off the top of my head have ALL been well below par. Not to mention Dosser, Degen,Voronin etc …
Nope, “there is something rotten in the state of Denmark”

I think (personally), looking for solutions here, Rafa could do with someone else to shake this up. He could do with someone else to interface with the players, someone to put some new ideas both to him and the players. Watch Rafa while a match is going on. No-one on the bench ever offers anything to him. They are nodding and looking serious when he is, quiet when he is, they just shut up and shadow him. he is very much on his own there.
Now maybe he’s set this up himself and for sure you can’t see Mr Ferguson asking whoever that non-entidy of an assisstent manager at Utd is for any advice. (Queroz was a big influene for a while)But there is no crisis at manure, nor has there been, like we have every second game. I think Rafa needs someone he can trust but someone who’ll bring something else to the party. Why ?

Because for me the players ain’t listening and ain’t responding anymore. More and more often there is obvious lack of game interest in the players. One example, JC and hoofball, why are the others letting him constantly do this ? The answer for me is that they are simply not taking charge, not supporting one another, not moving and creating options. Now if a rank amateur like myself can see this, surely they can too.

Surely this incessant, slow, around the houses going no-where monotonous football that we are now playing cannot be Rafa’s tactical genius at work. This cannot be the masterplan. Even with all the reasons (excuses if you like) there is more talent available in that team and it’s not being expressed.

Maybe there needs to be some shake up from Rafa down. Now while we are on the subject of shake-up there has to be a change of captain as well (for me). Not now but at the end of the season. As a figurehead Captain Stevie is a bloody disaster at the moment. All reasons are well expressed by now. Surely Rafa has got take the bull by the horns and sort this out. If necessary take the vice-captain from JC as well. There needs to be new voices and more support within the group and team (for me).

For now I would go with form. Keep Babel on, introduce Pacheco more often. I would maybe give kelly sometime at right back and move Glenda upfield a bit. I think Kuyt, Gerrard need time out. Aquaman to also come in. Portsmouth, Lille and manure are our next 3, well they are none a bunch of cloggers so if Aquaman is going to make any sort of an impression at all well now is the time. Give players with hunger a chance. What have we got to lose ? As we are we’ll be lucky to even qualify for the Europa League next year at this stage.

keith

firstly, i want to apologise for my last post which was emotive and unnecessary. i was a bit drunk at the time. also, you’re absolutely right about the likes of degen, zenden and even voronin who were all free, and i appreciate the calm way you pointed that out at first. my main point in the ‘signings’ part of my whinge was that i’d like to see players brought in with composure and touch, and i feel he hasn’t really unearthed any hidden gems in this department, with the exception of dagger. do you agree? do you agree that rafa could do more from the bench? do you agree that crouch and aquaman have not been given appropriate time on the pitch? typically, your reply addresses rafa’s success in the transfer market, which i’d already conceded was pretty good and the main reason i’m still behind him. but you make a good point, and i was probably wrong to question this area of his management. i’m aware of the myths.

you wound me up over a period of time. every time i read a keith post, it was always angry and dismissive. there never seemed to be a friendly exchange when you were involved. you always came barging into the blog with a tone of spite and malice. i’d finally had enough during that thread with arthur who’s one of the more even-handed posters in here. you say you don’t abuse anyone directly, but i challenge you to go back through the season’s archive and find 1 keith entry that isn’t insulting to someone in here.

the problem with this approach is that it polarises opinion in here. yes, some people do write senseless things (myself included) from time to time, but you and FS created an atmosphere of terror in which anyone making a negative observation was ripped to pieces. too often i felt you ignored the specific point, and accused people of simply being anti-rafa full stop. it was horrible in here. i’ve hardly posted in the last few weeks, despite always reading the posts because it was such an unpleasant place to discuss football. i hold you and FS as responsible for that as burgerman and digger.

i appreciate that you know a bit about football, but you seem to think that always makes you right. all i’ve been trying to say in my recent posts about you is that i’d appreciate it even more if you calmed down a bit and gave people their say, even accepted from time to time that other people may have a point, even if you don’t agree with it.

here’s to happier times in the blog, even if they’re miserable as hell on the pitch!

by the way, i did have a moan about rafa’s man-mangement and substitutions last season when we were clear at the top of the table. i even sent gerry a personal email about it, which he very kindly sent a lengthy reply to – cheers ged!

Fair enough Sambo, apology accepted and yes I do fly off the handle at times when repeated arguments about the transfer dealings, man management, youth system etc get repeatedly twisted to fit an agenda. After explaining and debating the pro’s and cons over the course of a season or two you finally snap and say for fuck sack you are speaking utter crap and drivel get the facts before you just follow the media driven agenda. Yes two wrong do not make a right but being brutally honest at times has a certain short term satisfactory feeling of accomplishment, then the ever so yes I know you are entitled to your opinion when you want to scream your opinion is fucking moronic and has no bases in fact.

People go o about Wenger and his youth system and policy, which should be rightly applauded. Yet they are quick to discount want Rafa has done and accomplished in the short time that he has been here (Wenger has been at it for twice as long) If we take the first two years away when he rightly sorted out the main squad, 3 years overhauling and putting in the right system and compiling the youth squad members that he has compiled is nothing short of miraculous.

It’s a little to smug and disingenuous to say the jury is still out on the success of this system. How many, youth cups and reserve titles after a 18 year hiatus has Rafa bought us. Is that not a measure of success? Having a first team squad of an average age of 24. something, second only to Arsenal, not an indication of Rafa’s youth policy?

Why is Lucas not considered a youth prodigy when we bought him as a 20 years old but due to necessity and his quality found himself as the mainstay of the midfield this season. Ngog is considered not good enough at 19 for Liverpool, yet Bendtner at 21 years old was slated just as much and is only know fulfilling his potential know.

The likes of Nemeth, Pacheco, Kelly, Ayala, add Insua (not a great example at the moment) even Babel and least we forget Masch who, languished at 22 in the Wet Spam reserves until Rafa bought him. Are these not examples of a successful youth policy?

They might not all make it into the Liverpool first etam but they will go on and play in the Prem or European equivalent giving us a return on our investment an enabling us to pick up more talented youngsters in the hope that 20 to 30% of them vcan make the break through. Is that not a successful youth policy? The likes of Hobs, Anderson, Barragen, even Buctman we sold to Fulham at a profit etc are examples of a successful youth policy when in years past we had zip and earned even less.

It takes time to reap the full benefit of a youth set-up the way Arsenal and Barca are doing right know. With the Pacheco’s, Nemeths, Insua’s, Kelly’s starting to get game time and starting to establish their credentials we should in the next 2 to 3 years start to see the true extent and success of that policy. However that does not mean it is not successful right know. You have to judge any project at the point in time that project is at and not compare it to projects that are well in advance of it own timeline.

I know of no member of the gag on Rafa tackle brigade that think he is infallible. He makes plenty of mistakes, in my opinion, constantly. His decisions are baffling at time, his substitution the same.

However if you have ever watched a TV program called “House” when he walks into the room and says to the mother of the sick child that he just wanted to meet the mother who is killing her child, as she kept on second guessing and interfering. She turned around and said but you are just guessing. He said yes I am but whose guess is more likely to succeed, somebody who has had 9 years of medical study and even longer in practice or a Mother who reads up everything on the internet?

Rafa has the experience, been there before, his guess might not always be right but he will get it right more often than not because his record of success speaks for itself.

Excluding this year, which I call an anomaly, if you have ever been in this kind of situation, you try to hard and things get worse, you don’t try and they don’t get better, fuck if you do, fucked if you don’t, team start to fight, blame everybody else, loose faith in their team mates, Manager Staff, calls seem to go against you, fuck the entire world is against you and it is really difficult to get out of the slump. I have seen teams go from world beaters one minute to chumps the next then back to world beaters that’s the beauty of sport the unpredictability of it or it would be a forgone conclusion, spend the most on the best and you win.

As for the Maureen approach it has been made but he has categorically stated unless he has a decent transfer budget he would not even consider the move. He may be a cunt but he is not an idiot. He will not put his reputation on the line with those tow jokers in charge.

Proto finically the best in Portugal, Chelsea the same in England top Inter the richest team in Italy, that’s how he works.

the thing is though keith, if you agree that rafa is constantly making mistakes and you often find his decisions baffling, then isn’t it worth discussing those short-comings? i agree it achieves nothing, and the best thing to do is to get behind the manager who’s brought us 2 CL finals and a semi, an fa cup, and a record prem league points tally with meager resources, but it’s still interesting to chat about, whether we’re top of the table or languishing in 7th. i like chatting about it in here, because when i try in mixed footballing company, all i hear is the media bullshit about how rafa has spent more than any other premier league manager in the last 5 years, and how his zonal marking system doesn’t work. that shit pisses me off as much as you, believe me.

it seems bizarre to compare rafa unfavourably to wenger considering the fact that liverpool have out-performed them, both at home and in europe since rafa took charge, but that’s the way i feel right now. wenger’s team looks classy, composed, and fluid, while ours looks clumsy, nervous and lacking in ideas, on a very similar budget. why? surely part of the reason is the turn-over of players that come and go without registering an impact. rafa’s wheelings and dealing might make good business financially, but even the free players like zenden and veronin actually have a negative impact on the team when they come in, are persevered with for a few months then shipped off. zenden really fucked me off. i hated every game i saw him play for us, and even if we’d been paid to play him it still would’ve been a bad move. another part of that reason, in my opinion, is that wenger has the eye for a player with touch, rafa doesn’t.

crouch, on the other hand, was quite clearly a really important option for us to retain and that’s why i’ve brought him up several times in here and should really stop going on about him because it’s pointless and boring. it still hurts, thats all. i think he’s a great player and i wish he was still a red.

by the way, aitch #151, crouch didn’t leave us for a lucrative deal at spurs, he left us for pompy, which i’m pretty sure he would’ve regarded as a fairly painful step backwards in his career, and that’s the reason for my supposition that he didn’t want to leave but felt he had no choice. fair points made though, and you’re right, it’s too easy to forget about rafa’s game changing substitutions when he makes them. they are pretty rare though. who knows what aqua might’ve done against lille? not me. i’d have given him the chance that’s all. reira for babel or vice versa must be the most made substitution in world football over the last 2 seasons. and it’s always after about 70 minutes. sometimes rafa seems like a tactical genius, other times it looks like football-by-numbers and i feel like smashing up the house and throwing the kids out of the window.

Okay Sambo, so Crouch went to Portsmouth instead of Spurs.
Didn’t you state he was “happy to stay”?
Yet he opted for fuckin Portsmouth.
The only reason for that move is more money.
Yes you can argue he wanted more playing time to cement his England place… but he was getting playing time at LFC and making an impact when he did so.
Maybe its subjective, but I can’t see past the money being the driving factor in that move.

Crouch was a player you liked and so you are allowing that to cloud your judgement. You said as much yourself.
Look I loved Riise… and given how dodgy our left back spot has looked since his departure, you could certainly make an argument for having kept him… but as much as I’d have liked that, simply because I liked and rated the lad… it was the right decision to move him on.

I liked Crouchy too. I thought he wasn’t given anywhere near the credit he deserved (by fans and press alike) for his footy skills (for a big lad, he really was shite in the air) but given the fact that Rafa stood by him when he couldn’t buy a goal, its pretty disingenuous to suggest that Rafa was the bad guy when he left… especially in light of some of the accusations of Crouch (nice guy though he may have been) acting like a “big time charlie”?

As for Wenger… how many Youth and Reserve trophy’s has his side won in the last 5 years, or even 10?
If his current first team squad is so chock full of young’uns that he’s personally teet-nursed and cultivated… why haven’t Arsenal dominated at Youth and reserve level with these very same players?

But again… what the fuck does that have to do with ANYTHING that is going on at Anfield and Mellwood.

You work with what you’re given.

What has Crouch done since leaving LFC?
What has Keane done?
What has Bellamy done?
What has Riise done?

The only player who is having a good season out of those 4 is Bells… but its not like he hasn’t played some stinkers as well.
Alonso is plying his trade in a team of Galacticos, so its not clear cut to guage his contribution… and its not like Real haven’t lost a few games… not the least of which was “crashing out of” the CL… and Xabi had Ronaldo getting on the end of his fuckin passes for fucks sake.

As I type this, the amazingly unbeatable, vunderkinds of Arsen Wenger required a 92nd minute mistake by the Hull goalkeeper to grab all 3 points.
Now granted that means they got the 3 points, but they didn’t do it with flicks-n-tricks… playing the beautiful game… they did it playing ugly as Arshavin’s face footy and grinding a late and really quite lucky winner.
Oh and they gave the ball away quite a lot too!

LFC finished 2nd last year, but are being written off this year.
Arsenal were being written off as the team that would relinquish their “top 4″ position at the end of last season and coming into this season… yet here they are pressing for the title.

Everyone has shortcomings… Rafa, Steven Gerrard, even Torres… especially Maurinho and even Arsene and Fungus.
But if you are going to debate those shortcomings it has to be in context of their pluses… not completely ignoring them.
And yes, when discussing the positives of Rafa or anyone else, we must consider the shortcomings also.

Ask yourself this…
If you are Pro-Rafa, do you concede and accept his mistakes?
If you are Anti-Rafa do you accept and conceded everything he has done right?

Sir Alex Ferguson today:

“I’d like to be optimistic but in all honesty I can’t see anything other than another capitulation from Hull.”

So the Arse are officially a threat for the league, in the eyes of the (red) devil!

No mention of wolves either.

The result of Bolton v Wigan has made monday night’s defeat all the more sickening, i hope that mouthy fucker dave whelan thinks back to his statement “Liverpool are in a mess” and has a word with them same players, but as i say this result is more sickening for me anyway dont know about you boys.
Good posts Aitch #208 and keith #206.

Theredman, the reds got an awful going over this morning on the radio. Now the LFC ‘supporters’ are saying that we should now ditch Rafa for Keegan or Toshack, or some newcomer called Mia. I shit you not!

Bascially the rhetoric is that now we should get some local bloke in and get rid of Johnny foreigner and this is the best way foward!

Talking about nonsense. Pearcey, #148, the only offer that I would have is that you shut your shit-hole and stop coming across as mister bling.

Peace and love, peace and love.

As much as we don’t want to admit it theredman… Liverpool are in a mess.

Yes, we circle the wagons when we are attacked and rightfully so… and fuck Whelan… but he wasn’t wrong.

In fact, it is our refusal to see/admit it that is the problem.

Not to pick on Bayo, but his statement in 181 is classic LFC Fan…
“That may suggest that the club is in a bigger financial hole than I suspected.”
That… after all that has been posted on this forum regarding G&H’s finances?

Sorry Bayo… again, not having a pop… but whether we believe G&H are 270 mill in debt, or as I do, still 350 mill in debt… its still debt… and we’re still fucked and we should all KNOW that by now and be making judgements about the playing/coaching staff… accordingly!!

Its one thing to blame Rafa for buying Insua who seems to be unable to handle a speedy winger, or Ngog who hasn’t scored 20 goals this season… but he didn’t buy SG and he can’t complete a 10 yard pass this season… and he didn’t buy Carra, who hoofs it to nowhere when he gets a sniff of it!

aitch, fully agree with your closing comment #208. it’s all about having a broad perspective and an open mind. conceding and accepting the rough and the smooth. rafa IS a great manager, i conceded that during my top 5 whinges: one of the best tactical man-managers around, a selection of fantastic signings amongst the comings and goings, and highly professional realist who keeps his feet on the ground and his mind on the match.

on crouch, we’re both only guessing, so it’s ultimately pointless, but i don’t reckon there’s any way he took the humiliating backwards step from anfield to fratton park simply because of money. he’s an ambitious player. he left because rafa never threw him on. i remember his first appearance for months against arsenal when he scored a great equaliser and said in his post game interview “it’s nice to remind people i’m still alive”. that says it all. he felt like a man rotting on the bench.

the only reason i bring him up again is that i don’t want to see that mistake repeated with aquaman or any other promising player who just needs to given confidence boosting time on the pitch at every appropriate opportunity. for rafa not to notice that crouch was getting disillusioned, for me, highlights a flaw in his management style. that’s all i’m saying. but anyway, i’ve made my point and i won’t be harking on about crouchy anymore. i will, however, continue harking on about aquilani and any other player i consider to be miss-managed in the same way.

interesting comments about aquaman’s contract by the way aitch. didn’t know anything about that!

Lurgan
Leave pearcey alone he reminds me of BM’s younger kid brother :]

Sambo Crouch rightly wanted more playing time,but it was the bonus structure that lured him to Pompey. It left the club on the verge of bankruptcy it was that good.
Then Happy Harry jumped ship took the cream and left them to sink he didnt have time to save Johnson or James,who has since torn up a contract extension which Portsmouth had to give him, along with a £3million signing fee which he gave back.
Top Man or what.
How many of our players would do that for us. ??
YNWA

Aitch, the paragraph below contains my comments at 181.

“Aitch
Can you shed some more light in the Aquilani deal? I’ll be very worried if he’s not being played due to the finances. That may suggest that the club is in a bigger financial hole than I suspected.”

I suggest you read my comments again in order to understand the context in which they were made. For the record, I didn’t think you were picking on me in your post at 212 and I’m grateful that you made it clear.

I will, however, point out that you ignored the first 2 sentences and chose to focus on:

“That may suggest that the club is in a bigger financial hole than I suspected.”

Again referring you back to the comments in their entirety, you will see that I asked you a question
about the Aquilani deal, which has not been answered. The words below came from your post at 151:

“I’d bet money that Aqualani’s omission is more to do with busines than footy/fitness.
I can’t prove that. Its purely speculation on my part.
But what is NOT speculation is that we didn’t pay 18 million for him.
We paid 4 million.
If the lad plays a certain number of games we have to cough up an additional 4 million in the summer.
So WHERE is that 4 million going to come from? And would we have to sacrifice the aquisition of Arda Turan, or “insert names here” in order to make that payment?
I don’t know. But it is an interesting question you may want to bear in mind the next time some Sky Pundit tells you Rafa’s decision to not include him makes no sense whatsoever.”

I hope you can now see what prompted me to make my comments at 181. It was, however, unfortunate that your focus on one sentence in isolation has meant that you missed the whole essence of my post (181). You referred to that single sentence in passing at 199 but I chose not to respond until I read your recent comments at 212.

I don’t know your definition of a ‘classic LFC fan’. Perhaps you may care to enlighten me. In any case, I’m just an ordinary fan who wants LFC to be the best.

I see that Carra has given Tomkins a call yesterday because he didn’t like his article from earlier on this week.

http://tomkinstimes.com/2010/03/%E2%80%9Chi-paul-it%E2%80%99s-jamie-carragher-%E2%80%9D/

From the outside looking in, it seems that some people are getting a bit tetchy around Anfield.

Aitch,
your right my friend, but we are only in the same pickle as last season albeit without Xabi Alonso so i cant fathom whats going on buddy and if they keep playing the way they are people are going to start to believe the whispers “Rafa has lost the dressing room”, i mean when was the last time you saw Stevie play like he is at the moment, i know he has had his fair share of injuries (one being his mania to play for his national side even against advice) but he has always put these things behind him and played like the world-class player we all know he is.
So as i say Aitch i know we are in a mess and i think that’s putting it mildly at the moment and its very worrying as i try and look around (not for scapegoats i might add) and say this or that could work, if only we, or when he get’s back from injury and i find myself running not so much out of excuses but hope a term i hate to use as i love the Reds as much as the next lad in here,
this is not kneejerk or agreeing with the PLANK’S that Rafa has to go, i’m just very concerned about our situation but if anything or anybody can put us back on the right path i believe it is Rafa Benitez.

Sambo read carefully what I said. To you and me it is easy from the outside to say the Rafa has made mistakes. All managers do over the course of a season. The good managers make fewer mistakes then the bad ones. It is also easier in hindsight to say it was a mistake as we don’t say, or don’t often say, he made the right choice when we win, we just expect it.

‘Rafa’s win percentage is up there with the best, especially considering he has nowhere near the best in terms of resources, stability, squad depth and strength. Yes it is also right to say that our starting eleven, when fit, sharp and firing is as good as anybody else’s, but this season we have not had the pleasure of seeing that. Hence my comment of an anomaly this season and I would rather compare and judge what we can expect from Rafa and the boys the way they played towards the end of last season. If we had strengthened instead of stagnating and going slightly backwards we possible could have limited the damage the injuries have caused this season. However with what has happened to us I still think it would have been a bad one.

Everybody, the so called armchair experts (I include myself in this category) have to bear in mind we can scream and shout for formation and substitution but that does not mean it would have worked and we would have gotten the right results if Rafa had listen. It’s quite arrogant to think that that we know more than a manager than trains with them everyday. We have to remember this is a manger that has outthought most other top class managers and has usually, in a once off when recourses do not play a major role, come out on top.

Everybody can say why did we not keep Bells or JAR etc but the truth is Rafa had to sell to try and upgrade and we do not have the luxury of having 30 mill replacements on the bench that some teams can afford. Know is not the time to panic, we need to make the best of what is left of the season, keep the team together and hopefully get back on track next season. The football we played last year was some of the best attacking play I have seen a Liverpool side play in a very long time. We know they are capable of it so let’s not destroy all the hard work because of one bad season.

The Aquilani situation is a strange one and I would lobe to know the real reason he is not getting more game time. For me, the way Kuyt and Gerrard are playing I would rest Kuyt, play Gerrard out on the right and bring in Aquilani. Again people could say great idea or shit one, but there is no guarantee it will work. Very easy to play fantasy manager when the buck does not stop with you. Another one is I prefer Reira on the park to Maxi as he gives us more balance. I also loved the link up play between Babel and Torres. If only Babel had Lucas’s heart he would be a world beater. It’s a very fine line between success and failure and confidence, which we don’t seem to have at the moment, is a key factor in all of this.

Been away drinking and being merry – some good comments here – enjoyable stuff

anyway possible good news http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/soccer/2010/0314/1224266281096.html

Once bitten twice shy Author.I`ll believe it when i see it pal.

Lurgan nice one you got your canvas of nicky tanner did you go to the lille game?

City dropped 2 oints today also did villa yesterday.Even though spurs won its not all doom and gloom.

There`s a lot of football to be played yet lads.I know the way we`ve being playing dosen`t fill us with confidence but its not beyond us by any means.

City spurs and Villa will be inconsistant also.

Keep the faith lads and hope we burst our monday night duck tomorrow.

Firstly … My apologies to Bayo.

I’ve just reread what I typed and yes, despite stating I wasn’t having a pop, I didn’t really clarify that I wasn’t talking TO you in that post, but rather, using that one sentence from your post, in an attempt to make point to everyone.

I did read your whole post. I did, I think, understand the point you were trying to make. And I didn’t take that one sentence out of context. (in terms of the statement you had made.)
But I did quote you and name you by name, so yes, I should have clarified my statement better and for that I apologize.

bayo was not using the statem4ent in the context that was implyed by what I typed… but my intention in (sort of mis)quoting him was this…

No Liverpool fan… especially those who come in this forum… should be under any illusion as to the ownership and/or financial situation that the club is in.

Far too much has been written on the subject, whether it be quoted or linked articles, mine and other’s attempts to sift through and analyze the numbers, or the ensuing contributions from others in discussion….
… none of us … not a single regular visitor to Kopblog… should be under any illusion that the club’s financial situation is anything but …”in a bigger financial hole than I suspected.”

And again, not implying that Bayo didn’t know our financial situation. I get that he was referring to something specifically that I had said… more or less speculating on really, so don’t take the statement the worng way…

But pretty much every blog, someone will dispute the financial “facts” of Rafa’s ins-n-outs on the playing staff. There may well be some room for discussion in the numbers (i.e. we didn’t shell out 18 mill up front for Aqua, but arranged an installment plan, and we didn’t hand over a suitcase containing 20 mill for Keane, or vice versa, when he returned to Spurs, etc.) but the total gross spend, the total gross sale revenue, and the implied net spend is pretty much fact.

But here is why its important…

Today comes the announcement that a “US group” has offered 120Euros, or 114 mill quid, for a 40% stake in the club.

The article then states that the money will be used to pay down the 100 mill due to RBS.
My first thought is “where’s the other 14 million going?”
Coz that’s just an odd numbered bit of gravy to be hanging out there, dontcha think?

My second thought is “114 mill for 40%?”
Coz we’ve been constantly told they’ve been looking to offer 10% for 100 million.

So we are to believe that G&H refused 400 mill for the whole club, but will take 114mill for 40% of it?
The math doesn’t add up. If only coz now, moving forward, any sale figure means G&H walk away with only 30% each of it.

The article then states that the offer would “also improve the club’s credit-worthiness, which could, in turn, lead to cash being secured to finally begin work on the long-awaited new stadium in Stanley Park.”

So if I’m reading that right… we’re selling 40% of a debt ridden club, to clear ONLY PART OF the debt, so that we can then take on MORE debt??

It then concludes that “If successful the Rhone Group’s bid would give them the controlling interest in the club, with Hicks and Gillett reducing their shareholding to 30 per cent each.”

WHAT FUCKIN BUSINESS SCHOOL DID THESE GUYS GO TO??
They wouldn’t talk to 3 Arab investors, and 1 Indian investor specifically because those bidders wanted controlling interest in the club… for a larger investment ammount it should be noted… but now G&H are gonna give it up… for less money… AND a smaller piece of the long-term pie?

PS

Watching Barca v Valenia now.That Messi kid is on a different planet altogether.What a player.

And you have the fecking british media already giving the world player of the year to Apeboy although he`s having a fantastic season and is without doubt the outstanding player in england he`s not in messi`s class that boy is something else.

If Rafa dosen`t sign him he should be sacked and if he`s not i`m not following LFC ever again until he`s sacked or we win the EPL or the CL but we never will with BENEETEZZZ cos wengers team had 65% possesion in his first five games in 1996 and Rafa only had 61% possesion in his first 5 games in 2004.Says it all really dosen`t it???

Yeah timmy, its a crazy season innit?

As someone said before… no one seems to want 4th spot.

Its like one of those comedy sketches where 3 people arrive at a 1 person doorway at the same time and they all stop and say “you first” … “no, you first” … “no I insist, you first”
… and then they all try to walk through it at the same time, bumping into each other, and falling down. They they get up and repeat.

Aitch i just think the two twats are kicking themselves because they knocked back that £500 million offer that was on the table from DIC around 18 months ago.(if it ever was on the table)

The longer this goes on Aitch there position will weaken.RBS will be piling on the pressure for their money and the price will drop the longer they don`t clinch a deal.Certainly circumstances have changed since 2008 with the global economic condition so there position then and now as regards their value of the club will be competely different.

I`ll never claim to be in the know regarding the finances but `im sure their under pressure for a deal hence the price dropping every day.

As i write Messi`s just stuck two more.3-0.

TT, I didn’t get a ticket to get to the Lille game. The tickets were harder to come by than a 2 paragraph comment by Burgervan!

BTW, the canvas was of Stevie G and I am delighted with this – even my daughter said that she wanted it in here room and she is French

On the other hand, something stinks at Anfield and maybe it’s linked with SG. I do not know.

More and more I am thinking that Rafa’s time may (unfortunately) be up at Anfield, due to this incessant pressure that is put on him by the press and our ‘supporters’. I am now beginning to think that his position is becoming untenable but I hope to fuck I am wrong.

If I am right then the CBC et al can give themselves a collective slap on the back that they were correct (kudos to you all) and have succeeded in contributing to his downfall. Now we can slip to mid-table medicority and then they will start complaining that we are not in the CL.

Unwittingly, they will have contributed to the downfall of, IMHO, the best manager we have had in 20 years and will have no idea that they were involved in it. However, they will complain that we have never won the league, or the world cup for that matter, under Rafa. What can you do?

Wankers the lot of them!

Personally, I am going to drink a bottle of red wine (Lalande de Pommerol) and leave it to the armchair experts.

Getting down off my soapbox now.

Thanks again for your kind offer to give me the prize. Away to get wrecked now!

No doubt timmy… no doubt at all.
(And that goes for what you said about Messi as well as the owners)

But we should be asking questions… lots of questions… rather than rejoicing… or in any way feeling ANY sense of relief that the end of our plight might be in sight… when we read these things.
(and yes I know you were doing neither!)

Seriously, every time I read about these “investment” dealings, I’m stricken with a list of questions (and I’m by no means a financial expert) regarding the inconsistencies that seem apparent.

Its like the global metdown.

For the past 5-7 years, Everyone and their dog was pushing my wife and I to buy a house. Everytime we went out to look at them, they were clearly listed for far more than they were “really and truly worth” and people were buying them.
But the math didn’t add up. (i.e. People who were making less than 100,000k per year, were qualifying for loans that really required an income of 200,000k.)

We were constantly being told that we could qualify for loans that we clearly did not make enough income to repay! (and we weren’t looking for anything fancy, we were looking at starter homes for fucks sake.)

NONE OF IT MADE SENSE.
And I kept telling my wife… this is all gonna go tits up. Its unsustainable. Its a pyramid(ponzi) scheme and at some point the bottom has to fall out.

NOW…
pretty much Everyone we know has had to do some real, heavy duty shucking and jiving to keep their homes, or has lost their homes, or lost a shitload of their retirment, coz they put it into real estate investment.

How does that relate to LFC, I hear some people thinking?
… because the numbers we are being given do not make sense!

Did see the goal from the Manc Chav (Messi) and it was brilliant. Sent the crowd the wrong way!

Good read this as well…

http://tomkinstimes.com/2010/03/media-muppet-of-the-week-2-%E2%80%93-lawro/

… and I am going to tuck into the wine now.

It was Stevie Lurgan??

Feck if i knew that i`d never have given it to ya i thought i was tanner!

Only messin pal i new it was SG so give that canvas a kick up the ass before you stick it on the wall like a good lad

Aitch i completely understand what your saying there .You should have seen the state of the housing market over here.Went absolutely bonkers from the start of the decade.The banks were giving money away like it was a fecking virus or something and every tom,dick and harry was in for some.100% mortgages were the new in thing and everybody was at it until…..

The country went belly-up banks went bust the developers were landed with ghost estates and land they could no longer sell and thousands couldn`t no longer afford to pay back their 100% mortgages because they`ve bee laid off or whatever.

Not to worry though all the banks and developers have been bail out by the governments National Asset Managment Agency(NAMA) where they give billios of money to the bank to buy back “bad loans” and restore their balane sheets to a new level.

The Developers are looked after too of course and who has to pay for it all?

Yes you`ve got it,ordinary folk like my good self,the tax payer.Its estimated we`ll all pay 35,000 yoyo`s each by the time we`re done.

Bloody joke.

Well like the man who`s lumbered a 100% mortgage on his family and has lost his job LFC are in a similar prediciment.

Like the man who loses his job(income to pay his mortgage) H&G rely on CL qualification for their income.It is effectively their “job” (income to pay their mortgage.

Yes they have other forms of income but so will the family man when he claims the dole but it isn`t enough is it?

Steady on Lurg… I know what you mean, but still…

Here’s the question I have for those who believe that Rafa has “lost the dressing room”

And please, I’m not stating he has or he hasn’t… but what doesn’t add up is this.

But that phrase is being used to explain why our form is shite and our results are poor.
No excuses, no injury bollocks…. the players… so the logic goes… no longer believe in him, or want him as their manager and want him gone… and the poor performances and poor form reflect/are evidence of that.

…but if you believe that, here is the next step you need to take in that logic…

The players, disillusioned by Rafa’s tactics and team selections, or “personal realationship/man-management” are tanking games deliberately?

This is the only thing that explains world class players not completing better than 50% of their passes to a teammate in any given game (and that’s a conservative statistic for some players.)

…but the problem I have with that, is this…

They all… every single one of them… want CL football…
…and their only chance of that, is to secure 4th place…
…or get a move to a “top 4 club” (in any country.)
…And neither of those is gonna happen if they, as individual players, are playing shite!

Also…
The UEFA Cup is this squads only chance of silverware this season.
So again… they played like shite against Lille… (and stay with the logic, they are supposedly doing so) deliberately coz they want Rafa gone!
But doesn’t that fly in the face of their own personal glory?

Look… I’m not saying I know WHY these players have suddenly forgotten how to do the things you learn at 10 years of age….
…the simplest basics of footy… a ten yard pass to a teammate and then move yourself 5 yards.

Players losing confidence in their manager, or vice-versa, can do a lot of things to a player’s game, and granted there is/can be a knock-on effect, if/when multiple players are affected… but it doesn’t explain virtually every player in the squad suddenly forgetting how to do the very basics.

I’m not saying I know what does explain it… and I concede that’s frustrating as fuck coz we ALL want answers (be we pro or anti) …but logic and common sense tells us what is not a viable explanation.

Yeah timmy… and the worryingthing is, the press don’t even cover the fact that the U.S. Bank are still… to this day… trading in these bogus derivatives.

Yes you heard that right… they came within a whisker of bankrupting the fuckin world… not just their nation…
…in a way that would have forced historians to rename “The Great Depression” as “The Minor Ambivelence” or “The Slight Dissatisfaction”
… and they are still at it!

And instead of stringing these bankers/traders up by their balls… along with the politicians (in both parties) that allowed/facillitated it and continue to do so… people paint a Hitler moustache on a picture of Obama and call for his impeachment, coz he wants to provide everyone with healthcare!

…you couldn’t make it up!

Couldn`t make it up alright

“Rafa Lost the dressing room” seems to be the latest logic for our downfall.

Your right Aitch its lazy logic.The players aren`t doing as you said the basic things like passdon`t admire it,make yourself available almost immeadiately.
It seems to more a confidence thing than a “couldn`t be arsed” thing.
Confidence is fragile and just as we seemed to be playing ourselves out of the rut we play ouselves back into it.
Our results since the turn of the year have been an improvement on before but the play dosen`t seem to be improving at all.

I don`t know i just can`t put my finger on it maybe there is something going on thats not right in the dressing room until we`ve all the facts well never know.

mind you, having said that Obama should have “Cowboyed Up” and forced through banking reform on his first day in office.

Sorry about the side-bar politico… but it does relate… in that we need to inform ourselves, coz these fuckers (politicians, G&H, whoever) will take us for everything we’ve got if we dont!

The Wayne Rooney nuthugging fest has been in full effect this weekend(well all season really). Apparently he is the best player in the world at the moment. Well I saw Messi score a hatrick against Valencia. I advise all of you try to see the goals. That little guy is something else.

Watched it earlier LB he`s on a different planet altogether.

For anyone who didn`t see it…

http://www.matchhighlight.com/spanish-la-liga/barcelona-vs-valencia/

LB its not new. Messi has been the dogs bollocks amongst the dogs bollocks for more than just this season.

I remember making the suggestion two years ago, and again when Citeh tried to break the bank for Kaka, that if there was anyone we should break the bank to get, it was Messi… I was actually laughed at by some posters in here!

At the moment of course, his form is on another planet!

…as for Rooney, if he’s ever in need of a quick reach-around, he only needs to attend a Brit press gathering.
Some of the coverage is seriously Homo-erotic!

They sound like the fuckin priesthood, rather than the press corps.

Listening to some of them on Sky is like being in a San Francisco bathhouse in the late 70s!

…err…NOT I must clarify at his juncture that I have ever actually been in such a bathhouse in San Fran or any other city!

(…puts the keyboard down and slowly backs away….)

Here’s something to think about…

on the main TIA site, Matt Ladson writes an article titled… “Gillete & Hicks – Benitez’s Saving Grace?”

His first paragraph posits…
“Despite the bigger problems surrounding the club, Benitez’s management this season would have seen greater pressure from fans had the ownership been more stable”

But how about the flip side of that coin…
“Benitez – Gillette & Hicks Saving Grace?”

“Despite saddling the club with an additional 60 million debt for the purchase of Torres, Babel and a few others, and undermining his position with their Klinssman flirtations, and the push-me, pull-you activities at board level with Parry and Others, Benitez has kept the wolves at bay by continually overachieving, delivering 2 major trophies, 3 additional cup finals and consistently finishing in the top 4. G&H’s owenership would have seen greater pressure from fans were it not for Benitez’s achievements.”

You say po-tay-to and I say po-tah-to!

(err… not that I’ve ever said po-tah-to, as that’s just so late ’70s San Francisco Bathhouse GAY!)
(not that there’s anything wrong with being late ’70s San Francisco Bathhouse GAY! …for all the nut-jugglers out there… To each their own… it just ain’t my own… I’m just sayin’.)

Coupla questions Aitch. Call me devils advocate but…am I right in suggesting (as is recited as gospel in here) that the sale of bellamy and others funded the purchase of Torres? And even if it wasnt and we were saddled with 60mil (wow!) for him and others was he not worth it? Werent the 2 major trophies delivered under the previous owner? Whats that got to do with G&H? Or 2 of the other 3 finals? He got to one final and finished 2nd under there tenure. Those are his achievements under G&H no? Po-tay-to!

Anyway….was interested to hear yours and LB’s thoughts on Nandos comments over the wknd? Lurgan any tips on a decent middle of the line (price range!) red wine? My expertise extends as far as Buckfast!

I’m not a club historian, and I don’t know the specific cash flow Dig… nor does Tomkins and he seems to know more than most.

I know LFC was refinanced from 270 mill to 350 mill and that refinance coincided with the purchase of Torres and a few others… and that was the ONLY season where Rafa actually had what could be reasonable called “a spending spree”.

Was Torres worth it?
Depends on your point of view really.
In terms of his playing and goalscoring… sure, you could argue that he’s value for money… in fact few would argue otherwise…
…but devil’s advocate and all… he’s won us fuck all… though admittedly we went 2nd with him…
…and I don’t know what he’s brought in, in shirt sales, but we are further in debt than before we bought him…
I think I can safely say Babel, (bought with 11 mill from the same loan,) has not been worth it.

As for the finals… in your devil’s advocate eagerness to throw my mis-statements back in my face… have you not just made my point for me?

Benitez achieved more prior to G&H’s arrival, yet we are vastly more in debt… and he has had less money per season (excepting the refinance season) to deal with…but don’t have a vastly more expensive playing squad, reflecting that debt/expenditure, to continue those achivements.

You should have had but one question…
…where’d the fuckin money go?

But okay, maybe I made a copmplete ballsup of what I was trying to posit…
…but your response does in fact suggest that Benitez is Gillete and Hicks Saving Grace…
As I said, I’ve always said po-tay-to too!

Digger, Torres said basically that we need to buy better players if we want to win things. I would say to him that we need him fit and not squandering chances like against Wigan. Most of you will say I’m harsh because his goal scoring record is amazing. It is, but his attendance record is poor. He should concentrate on getting fit and scoring goals and not undermining his team mates or manager.
We all know we need to buy some good players. Rafa knows that too I’m sure.

Aitch, I’ve known about Messi since he was 17 dribbling past players like they wasn’t there. I am a regular watcher of La Liga. But the lad amazes me every time I see him. He’s the best player in the world. Ronaldo would be 2nd on my list.

I have a serious question. If Messi was at Anfield aged 17 would Rafa give him a game?

Nah Aitch I wasnt throwing anything in your face, why would you think that? And why should I have only one question if there was several questionable elements in your post?! I was just curious as to the lay of the land on how we purchased Torres and as to how achievements under previous owners could be the current ones saving grace, thats all. Thanks for the clarification. Any thoughts on Torres comments?

So he said basically what Stevie said? Was curious as to whether you thought he was undermining the team and sick of playing with players he believes arent up to his level?! And maybe if wants 4 or 5 players he should fuck off?!

LB – the answer to your question is No – I doubt he would

Digger – I wasn’t too happy seeing Torres make those comments – what good can come of it?? Of course we need better players but like LB mentioned Torres (for a few different reasons) hasn’t exactly covered himself in glory this season has he?

I’d say the likes of Lucas, Insua et al reading that interview might be think “was he speaking about me?” I don’t think it helps team morale, especially at this fragile state of the season

anyway tonight – we’re waltzing into the last chance saloon – margin for error is down to nil now. Hopefully we’ll get an early goal (ala Spurs game) and that might spur us on

would love to see Torres partnered with either Babel or Ngog with Gerrard on the right and Aquilani alongside Mascherano – but we all know that ain’t gonna happen

LB#243 – I very much doubt it and in my opinion is one of his few faults.

Digger, say rules apply to everyone. What goes for Gerrard goes for Torres as far as I am concerned. Slight difference is that Stevie is Captain and a local so you’d think he would know better. And also I have watched Torres in games recently and although he has been moaning and bitching with the ref and the opposition and has looked incredibly frustrated he has been running his heart out and I haven’t seen him slag off team mates or give them the glare yet. His commitment on the pitch looks total. The same can’t be said about Gerrard. Of the 2 you’d think the young foreigner with no emotional ties to the club would be less inclined to give his all in difficult circumstances.

I know Arthur, I’m just wondering were the 2 lads gonna be as evenhanded in their treatment of Torres as they were with Stevie?! Ah dont mind me, I just think Stevies catching way too much flak lately. And to answer your question LB, not snowballs chance.

Gerrard catching way too much flak? I tell you what – he’s lucky he’s not playing in La Liga for Real Madrid or Barca. If you are a star player in those sides and you are playing shite you get slaughtered regardless of how successful the team is doing. Gerrard is getting away with some quite dreadful displays. He’s been shocking. Next time he asks for world class team mates I’d like to play him one of my favourite Janet Jackson records….

You guys must also remember: Spanish league (full of skill, players with a bit of grey matter between their ears, lovely footy, slower to a degree) v EPL (also full of skill, lots of thugs, no protection from refs, faster). Would Messi survive in the EPL at age 17? He would be kicked to shit before having a chance to score 5 goals. Mind you, it took our opponents a whole season to work out that they had to kick the shit out of Torres whilst enlisting the help of the refs.
Also, I would not take Nando’s comments too seriosuly myslelf. The lad is obviously fustrated, and he was speaking to the Spanish media. Along come the British tabloids & the other crap press, and make a huge story out of it “Torres threatens to leave Liverpool”. I mean, c’mon! I read it as if he was making a hidden statement to the 2 Yanks, or along those lines anyway. Hasn’t he shown enough to you guys re his loyalty & commitment to LFC? Fuck me, I am naming my 2nd son (due in July) James Fernando… in honour of Torres – that’s how much I believe in him anyway…just hope he does indeed spend a couple more seasons at Anfield otherwise my kid will never forgive me.

Rafalution, Fabregas made his league debut for Arsenal aged 17. The thugs couldn’t get near him. I think it would have been the same with Messi.

Will you play that same record for Nando LB?! As for his displays, we’re talking about 2 players saying the same thing and one getting lambasted for it, the other….not so much! To be fair though you did say whats good for one is good for the other so I’ll assume your comments on Stevie apply to Nando too. In regards to requesting 4 or 5 more players that is. Anyway, what of tonight? What sort of team can we expect lads? Surely nothing other than a win is inconcievable?

On the whole Messi thing – in my eyes if you’re good enough – you’re old enough. Rooney and Owen are prime examples of this

Rooney Was built like an ox at a very young age so he may be a bit different as a comparison. But Owen, Fowler, Fabregas, Messi… all small teenagers when getting into the team and did great regardless.

Talking of getting into the team – might we see Aquilani tonight?

My team:

Reina
Johnson, Carra, Agger, Insua
Babel, Aquilani, Mascherano, Riera
Gerrard
Torres

If that team can’t beat Portsmouth at Anfield then we might as well just wind up the season and I’ll watch Nascar instead.

Digger, did the Jets get LT?

But that wont be the team will it LB? It’d be my team alright (if Benny hasnt recovered) but does anyone really expect to see Lucas and Kyut on the bench and Riera in for Maxi? Not me. Yeah they signed him on a 2yr 5.1mil contract LB. Hard to know if its a good move or not, hes not the player he was and he’ll be 31 in June. How about this other guy we signed; Antonio Cromartie? He’s fathered 7 kids with 6 different women in 5 different states!! God damn! Where do you go for Christmas there?!

Cromartie? Is that the guy from San Diego chargers? Regarding LT. I am a bit confused as to why the Jets let Thomas Jones go to bring in LT. What was Jones receiving skills like? I know LT’s used to be good. Again though, those Janet Jackson lyrics spring to mind.

If Maxi, Kuyt and Lucas all play tonight… sigh.

I think Riera will start tonight lads.Also he`ll start at the toilet.He plays well against the mancs and is effective in stopping their full backs getting forward along with Dirk on the right.So for that reason i think Rafa will start with him tonight.

My team..

Reina
johnson,carra,agger,insua
masch,Aquallini
Maxi,gerrard,riera
Torres.

Thats the team i`d like to see.Plenty of attacking players in there.Kuyt and lucas can take a much needed rest and get ready for sunday because they will be important players against the other lot.

Aquallini will be given the freedom to go and play by masch and maxi and riera can give us width.

Lets hope for a high tempo start and an early goal.

Well…all in a perfect world

we are playing shite football full stop,but i’m staying positive(because it has to end sometime)

liverpool 3

portsmouth 0

torress hat-trick.

christ who am i kidding i’ll take a injury time og off the refs hole:)

COME ON THE POOL!!

Well, I said a while back that I couldn’t remember us winning on a Monday night – It was confirmed today that we haven’t won a single one of our last EIGHT Monday night matches. Wow!!

That is fucking rediculous!

Let’s hope it changes against Portsmouth tonight, FFS!!

In fact steve we haven`t won at all on a monday night under Rafa`s tenure.

We have won our three Bank holiday monday games under the gaffa.

I didn`t put a prediction in for a while so i`ll guess torres first goal and the reds to win 4-0.

C`mon you redmen.

I’ve just seen Fabio Capello at Heathrow. Almost asked him if he was going to pick Beckham for the World cup! lol.

That’s wierd Timmy. But don’t say it too loud otherwise we’ll have some people saying Rafa should take Monday’s off from now on!

Reds starting 11 is: Pepe, Johnson, Carra, Dagger, Insua, Maxi, Masch, AQUILANI!, Babel, Stevie and Nando. Ok, whos kidnapped Rafa?!?!

Pass and Move???

yeah, its pretrty and all, but it’ll never catch on!

One word – refreshing!

Digger, probably the same person/group who kidnapped Gerrard last week.

See, I told you it wouldn’t catch on!

And Dig… Kinda makes you wonder then, who selected the other 10 players, you know, the ones who played so shite in the previous couple of games, then eh?

Today had fuck all to do with team selection or individual players… and everything to do with all 11 players collectively remembering how to complete simple 10 yard passes to a bloke in the same colored shirt… and oh yeah… move for a return ball.

wow i enjoyed a game of ball that the reds were involved in. that was like going six months without your hole and then getting a threesome on a random monday night..refreshing indeed.

A very positive performance tonight, on a fucking Monday! The first half reminded me of how we played a year ago. The difference was that you never saw Xabi make the kind of runs Aquilani did. That was a great performance from Alberto. He still needs more time to adapt to the physical part of the football in England, but fucking hell has the lad got skill.

I think Rafa’s decisions on when to play him will be among his wisest when we look back a couple of seasons from now. Not that the anti-Rafa squad or media will ever acknowledge it though. They will keep going on about how he should have played Aquilani more often, but that’s exactly the kind of attitude that put Alberto through a shitload of unnecessary injuries back in Rome and exactly what Rafa has been intending to avoid by giving Lucas the sort of responsibility he isn’t ready for.

Aquilani was MoM for me tonight, closely followed by Torres whose performance will undoubtedly be causing Mr Ferguson some headache ahead of the game at Old Toilet. Glenda, Babel and Maxi also played well. I’m really not expecting anything from Babel anymore, but credit where it’s due. Hopefully we’ll see less sulking from Stevie the rest of the season. Tonight was certainly an improvement for him as well, but we all know what he’s capable of at the top of his game.

I wonder what Rafa has in mind as regards to the remaining two starting lineups this week. Can we beat Lille with a slightly weaker side on the pitch? If Torres, Glenda and Gerrard went off early to be able to start on Thursday night, how fucking exhausted will they be at the end of the week? At the end of the day I’m just glad we have Rafa to make these decisions instead of O’Neill, McLeish or some other twat.

Yeah Aitch, nothing to do with it….not a thing. Dude, seriously…. ah fuck it! Whats the point? Lets just leave it be and enjoy a great performance. Well done Redmen and well done Rafa.

Here I come, after Liverpool gets a win, instead of trying to prove I have prophetic capabilities after every loss or draw.

Sachem,

I agree with what you’ve just said and am having a sneaky feeling that Rafa may have finally overcome the confusion that is Babel, judging by his last few performances. I certainly hope I’m correct, and won’t go to great lengths to prove my predictive capabilities, like many here do

Yes, a win on a Monday night – It had to come eventually and how fitting it arrived on the occasion of the clubs 118th birthday!

A performance of attacking verve rarely seen from LFC this particular season. If Riera is not injured, he must be a starter against Lille along with Lucas and Kuyt.

I would love to see tonight’s starting 11 at Old Toilet on Sunday. Come on Rafa, be bold!

I know it was only Portsmouth tonight and Lille and the Mancs will both be tougher propositions, but 2-0 on Thursday and Torres grabbing the only goal on Sunday will have us in raptures.

Surely the guy in the no.19 red shirt wasn’t really Ryan Babel. Does he have a twin who plays football?

Lol @ Guinness Drinker, that’s exactly how it was
Timmy, close call, Almost called it perfectly, must meet up in Branigans for a game, Utd maybe?
Bout the game, best starting 11 on paper I’ve seen all season and it proved to be successfull on the pitch as well!
Surely Rafa has to take note here and stick with what works, fair enough it was against Portsmouth but he’s got all his best players at his disposal now, surely he will see sense and stick with this starting 11, quality through out. From Feb of last season he virtually stuck with the same starting 11 till May and sure we all know how close we came to lifting number 19!

Val, i agree with you, best starting 11.

But my bet is Rafa is going to drop Aqua and Babel to the bench and use Kuyt and Lucas against Man Utd.(meaning boring football)

Sometimes I dont feel sorry for the bastid!

Davemohan…

Whats a bastid? Ohh.. you mean bastard?

Call yourself a true fan by calling the manager a bastard? What happened to the “You’ll never walk alone”?

Prick…

So what he drop Babel and Aqua to the bench and opt for Lucas and Kuyt? Lucas and Kuyt are in the team the last time we beat Mancs 3 times in a row….

I don’t see that we could attack Mancs in the same way we attack Portsmouth. So.. why not add in “premier league’s third most successful tackler” and deadly Dirk in to the team to add in some stability?

Funny old game and what a difference an almost fit squad and an almost fully sharp squad makes, especially when you throw in a bit of confidence. For me Gerrard and Nando are still not fully firing but getting better by the game.

Yes it was only Portsmith the team that lost to Chelsea 2-1 at the bridge so let’s not get carries away. However if we have a good performance against Lille we will go into the weekends game in a much better state of mind and with a lot more confidence, I think that is the key more than anything else at the moment. Nice to see the swagger and interchange, it gives us a glimpse of what Rafa intended for this season before the injuries and horror show.

Not bad for a manager that has taken us as far as he can according to our armchair experts. I really liked the combination between Babel and Torres and the change in Babel is remarkable, he chases back and really puts in a good shift. Reports say that he has been training like that for a while and is reaping the rewards, pity it has taken him this long to realize that is what it takes to succeed at this level.

As for our 18 mill flop what a performance and we can know see what Rafa saw when he bought him. He will more than replace Alonso and gives us another attacking dimension that we did not have with Alonso. I still see the stick to beat Rafa with is why did he not play him more or sooner. Who is the best judge, fans that watch from the side or a Manager that watches and works with him on a daily basis?

For all the people that have stated the injuries should not have affected us that much as all team have them. Did anybody notice the difference just three substitutes made, let alone the 11 that we have had this season? This team can go onto be something special if we can get a little more depth and keep everyone relatively injury free. It had shades of the way we played towards the second half of last year. It really was a welcome site after the shit we have watched this year.

Spot on Skeate, spot on! If my memory serves me correctly, it has been Lucas & Masch (in combo) that have tied up Scholes, Fletcher, Anderson etc in the last 3 games against the Mancs.
I thought we left a bit of space in front of the defenders last night, and Pompey did have a couple of chances. Wouldn’t want to see that space for Shrek.
On a positive note, it was great seeing Aqua in action. Some of the runs he made were fantastic – as FS says, very Terry McDermott’ish. Pity the crosses weren’t always accurate, but generally a positive performance – pass & move, just do the basics lads. Remember the team of the 80′s? That’s all they did at practice, one-touch footy. And it showed on the pitch.
Anyway, I digress. Even though I like the guy, it was nice to see Kuyt getting a rest. Some of hos touches/skill has been abysmal of late.
Anyway, onwards & upwards. Bring on Lille & the Wanks!

Well that was more like it – great win for the lads – trying not to get carried away as it was only Portsmouth.

I think that we will go for something like that line up against Lille but revert to our more defensive set up against the mancs, remember they will want revenge after last years spanking and I’ll take a scrappy 1-0 over them anytime – if we beat them it could cost them the league which would give us something at least from this season

Finally! a decent performance (albeit against the bottom club) to enjoy. I have to be honest though it was tempered slightly by a slight nagging annoyance that we really should have seen this type of team/formation (especially against the likes of Wolves, Stoke et al) a lot sooner. And by that I mean not playing Mascherano & Lucas against the lesser lights.

But enough of that I hear you cry – great to see Aquilani play a major role in proceedings and of course getting his first goal. Another plus was Babel’s goal – I’d nearly given up on him but there is just a hint that perhaps he’s about to put his head down and try and actually forge a career at Anfield for himself

Will be interesting to see what team Rafa puts out against Lille – I’d imagine will see Aquilani again because I think he’ll use Masch and Lucas against the Scum on Sunday.

A great result for the boy’s last night, but more importantly a very good performance.
Torres is i think nearly back to his best, not just for his 2 goals but his work rate was phenomenal as was Aquilani’s but i have to give special mention to Maxi i thought he was outstanding last night to me he looked like he’s been playing at Anfield for years. SO as i say great result. (albeit against a bottom club)oh well you cant please all of the people all of the time.

TheRedMan – did I bully you in past life or something? You seem to always have a little dig at me these days..

Look – if you’re getting excited about beating the bottom club who are so badly off that they can’t even pay their own players – then fair play to ya.

It was an important result and a good (not great) performance – and credit where credit is due and all that. But I think a little bit of perspective is important Redman – we played against the worst team in the league last night. Now beating Lille and hopefully nicking something against Utd will be a far better indicator that we have turned the corner – too many false dawns this season

Like I said – great to see Aquilani start and score – but he and the rest of the team have far bigger challenges in the remaining games of the season

Alright chaps. This season has been like a dagger to the heart but that was a good win last night.

aquilani’s pass for Torres’ goal was special. If that is a taste of things to come it’s making my mouth water. I agree with FS I think this boy will be special for us.

If Stevie G, Torres, Babel n Aqua, Benny can stay fit and firing on all cylinders and we can keep them that is some attacking combo, making me want the end of this season to come now!! and the start of the next season to come yesterday.

Boys: I don’t want to sound arrogant but Rafa but bought Aqualani so do you think there is a possibility he saw some talent in him? Do you think Rafa has not been playing him to pee us off or do you think there is something behind the scenes that is making him use Aquilani sparingly? Now could it be the injury problems he has had? Could it be the financial plight we are in and the fact the next £4 million payment could be triggered. Cmon chaps please try and use some grey matter!

Yeah, just on Maxi…all the pundits & some fans have been questioning Rafa’s selection of him in most of our games. Seems fairly simple to me: Maxi & Nando have played plenty together at Atletico, which would mean Maxi knows how Torres thinks, moves, the runs he makes etc. Gerrard was his main providor last season, but we all know that Stevie has been out of touch lately.
I would love to see the same side against Lille, hopefully get a few early goals & then give Torres & Gerrard (if he is available for Sunday) a break with 20 mins to go. Here’s hoping…
Oh, and Dave Mohan? The last 3 games against the Mancs have resulted in 8 goals for, 2 against. Boring football? And guess what…Lucas started 2 of those games, Kuyt all 3!

Only seen the game in the local after a few by the time it started but all looked well.

The yeam loked like it can pass the ball again.Lets do lille thursday and drive n to old toilet on sunday.

Val love to meet for a pint there sunday but the enemy is off on hols on some hen party so i`m on daddy day care for the week.Some other time no probs even though that pub is a curse for me.Since my buddy took it over i`ve been there for 3 games and we`ve lost the lot!
Have to break my duck sme tome though i`ll see you there no probs in the next few weks.

At least the moaning oul bastids will stay away for a couple of days anyway c`mon the redmen.

Christ i`m a sick puppy this morning `i`m off out there now for the cheltenham for one more session before i go bak to work tomorrow.

Jesus H christ i`ve more typo`s than Author when he`s tanked up!

Before i go lads,we`ve lost another old red.

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/latest-news/reds-mourn-former-goalkeeper

Charlie Ashcroft was a solid red to the end and was a team mate of Billy Liddel, Bob Paisley, Albert Stubbins, Jack Balmer and many more great players from the golden age.

RIP Charlie Ashcroft.

That’s Arthur Timmy, not Author

forgive me buddy….

Aquilani looked great last night. I’d like to see just a little bit more discipline in his game with regards to his forward runs beyond the ball. Don’t get me wrong it’s a breath of fresh air but at times there were big gaps between our defence and midfield and we seemed vulnerable to the counter attack. A better side could exploit this. Maybe our defence need to defend higher up the pitch, but then our defenders are not the quickest.
It may be that because it was Portsmouth Aquilani felt he could bomb forward and not have to worry and against better teams he’ll naturally be a bit more picky about when he makes those runs.

The one touch passing and flicks were lovely to see. Good to see Torres getting some sharpness back and scoring 2 goals. That’s 15 league goals. If he gets 20 it would be amazing considering his injuries. Good to see Babel get 90 mins. That’s a rarity. He worked hard last night, didn’t do everything great but the commitment was there, he attacked the defender and tried to get crosses in. He linked up well with Torres and Aquilani at times and got his goal. I am hoping that he will be rewarded with another start.

Only negatives in my opinion is that our fullbacks are too easy to beat and Gerrard’s form is still poor. Aquaman and Torres seemed to be on a different level to him and of the 3 he has had more football. I wonder if all is right in his personal life because we all know when something is bothering him it affects his form big time.

I am worried about what Valencia will do to Insua next weekend.

I said you cant please all of the people all of the time, if the cap fits then wear it.

sorry I don’t wear caps

LB: Don’t worry about Valencia against Insua. Riera or Maxi will play on that side and that will shore it up. Torres will murder manure if Aquilani is on the pitch.

“Half of the people can be part right all of the time,
Some of the people can be all right part of the time,
But all of the people can’t be all right all of the time.
I think Abraham Lincoln said that.” Bob Dylan 1963.

Kenny I’d be AMAZED if Aquilani starts against Utd – this will probably be the team (as long as Gerrard doesn’t get suspended)

Reina
Johnson Agger Carra Insua (eek)
Kuyt Mascherano Lucas Reira
Gerrard
Torres

Nice one Guinness,
was Abe commenting on Lfc and its supporters.

LB, my thoughts exactly – there was definetly too much space in front of the defenders.
Athur, I think Rafa would have to pick that side against the Mancs. We are playing against an in-form Rooney at Old Toilet. Maybe we could fit Aquaman in, if Gerrard is dropped back alongside Masch? But then again, Lucas was a star performer against the scum last time out.

I don’t really have too much of a prob with that team against the Scum Rafa to be honest – in the end of the, although I’d love to do them again – I’ll take a draw and them dropping 2 points

Agreed Arthur, tho’ maybe Maxi plays instead of Riera ?

Anyway we have another game to go before that. It’s amazing what a difference a game (confidence) makes. I was pretty glum about prospects v Lille after the (latest) crap late goal conceeded leading to defeat again scenario which played out in France.
Now I am a bit more hopeful. Given that Lille are one fluke / good bit of play / bad defensive error (never) away form making us score 3 times to win the tie it is still a tall oreder for us on Thursady night BUT if we do come through, having scored a few, and even given Olypiakos ’05 a reprise… how bad. We’ll be motoring down to Manure with a spring in our step.

I hope Rafa keeps the bones of that side together for the Lille fixture. I hope he goes for it because winning breeds confidence and that is precisely what we have been missing all these months.

By the way Skeat I think Davemohon was being a bit ironical back 276 with the “Bastid” comment. It’s how you say it over here. Humour is local and the written word doesn’t always translate perfectly. I’m sure he’s not seriously calling Rafa etc.. etc…

However as you point out we haven’t done too badly with Kuyt and Lucas of late v Manure.
Kopking can play as far as I’m concerned as long as we win.

Play the same team again Thursday night and again on Sunday. We have to score Thursday, seems to me that 11 can. Same again Sunday. Take it to em and end any aspirations the mancs have of 19. How anyone can contemplate changing that team after the best performance from a Liverpool side in months is beyond me. Why change it? Why demote the superb motm Aquilaini or the growing in confidence Babel back to the bench? I dont get it. It sends the wrong message. What are we saving these guys for? The world cup?!

Well Digger – I’d keep the same 11 (bar Maxi who is cup-tied ) for the match – to not do so would be absolutely non-sensical.

However against Utd – I think we do need to provide greater protection to our back 4 – and for that I think it makes sense to probably at least play Kuyt and Reira – both who will provide cover for our slightly suspect fullbacks

same 11 for the Lille match I meant to say…argh!

Obviously Maxi will have to miss Thursday but Benny can step in. 9 games. Just go for it Rafa. What have we got to be cautious about at this stage in the game?

Good display,too late ?, seeeing as Villa have 2 winable games V Wigan and Wolves.Keep the same 11 for the trip to GS.

Who knows what the story with Riera is though Arthur? Cant even make the squad these days. I could probably handle Kyut playing to counter-act Evra on the flank. But utds midfield is muck. Masch and Aquilani will destroy em if given the chance imo. I just dont wanna lose this mojo mate.

You have a point here about Kuyt handling Evra, Digger. Methinks it’ll depend on which team plays on Thursday and how they perform before Rafa will decide if Lucas or Aquaman plays.

Arthur,

I agree with you on the team except change Reira for Maxi or Benny, defo think though that Aqua and Babel should start against Lille – cant do their confidence any good if they are dropped after last nights performance

Is Benny fit? – what was his injury anyway? He’s had a very stop start year – like so many of our players this season..

Broken Rib ? seems to have healed that he can give 20 min and maybe more against Lille – might get him a start

If we do go with that line up we need to get support up to Torres because I guarantee you the tramp we be telling his players to kick the shit out of him

Bit of luck here:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/mar/16/steven-gerrard-escapes-fa-ban

Right – it’s Patrick’s Day Eve here in Dublin (as it is all over the world) I’m off to get fucked up

There are 2 very obvious question marks for the Thursday team.

One – was SG, who it now looks will be available. (That could have been a 3-5 match ban, if the F.A.’d wanted to! Fungus’s mobile phone must have died and he didn’t get hold of them until after they’d made the decision?)

Two – was Masch picking up an injury in the last 10 minutes. Haven’t read anything this morning, but he looked like he was really struggling. So at this point, I’d be expecting Lucas to replace him on Thursday to give Masch time to recover for the Scum game.

There may be a 3rd? – Was Johnson removed coz he was hurting, or simply as a precaution?
Pending that, we may see Kelly in for Johnson.

So its unlikely to be an unchanged 11 on Thursday… but I agree, I personally wouldn’t make more than those 3 changes.

Then again, the big question is … which team shows up?
Dr Jeckyl of last night…
…or Mr Hyde of Wigan et al?

Yet another insightful Tomkins entry…

http://tomkinstimes.com/2010/03/media-muppet-of-the-week-2-%e2%80%93-lawro/

Could Aurelio be fit to play on Sunday?

It was estimated that he would be out for 2-3 weeks, and I think he’s been out for 2 weeks now.

Mark Lawrenson’s comments should be treated with utter contempt.

Chavs out of europe. For me that’s really good news. On top of frustrating them once again of their divine right to be World champions with all the marketing / money spin offs, they’ve just got domestics to occupy them now i.e the EPL and Cup of course. Delighted I am. One year older an aging squad that will need a makover … it’s all good news.
Lovely bunch of lads and a lovely bunch of supporters to boot.

Man city finishing 4th might be bad news for liverpool but its an absolutely disaster for the football itself … Just imagine how badly they will be influencing the transfer market with an added attraction of “Champions League” ….

Just a random thought …

Skeat,

Lucas is brilliant player, but more defensive minded than Alonso was. With him on the side means on four attack mided players, two defensive and four defenders.

With Kuyt on the side and hopefully on his better days, he might just get a goal or two. On average days, he is just a number.

Liverpool are in a desperate situation now (and if anyone doesnt think so, needs a reality check)

Eight more games to go, throw in the best side and what have we got to lose ? We’ve played shitz the whole season, cant get any worse.

Who cares about Europa league, thats for Everton to win… if we dont get in Champs league, like Dizzy said… might change British football forver…

cheers!

Mark Lawrenson is a disgrace. Enough said. He talks absolute tripe. Ever look at his score/match predictions – he never has Liverpool down to win a game, always a draw or a loss. He’s a tosser.

I know it’s a Reds blog, but I just want to echo Dougle’s comments re: Chav players & fans are horrible people. They really are! As for them bemoaning the penalty appeal when Drogba was hauled to the ground during a corner kick. I can clearly remember him doing the same to Skyrtl during the game at the Bridge, and nothing was awarded. What comes around…

What is about former reds as pundits they all seem to be idiots and have a grudge against rafa

Anyway a bit of topic here but just found out were we get the word dogs bollocks from – apparently Mikano back in the day used to do two different sets Box Standard and Box Deluxe – which is were we get bog standard and dogs bollocks from.

Coming back of that tangent happy paddys day to all you dogs bollocks’s

Lol! Same to you An Linn and everyone else celebrating (getting hammered) everywhere! Hopefully we’ll be celebrating tomorrow night too…

RE Mark lawrenson,
what do you expect lad’s when he is writing and getting paid by a manc tabloid (mirror), it’s the only work he can get, as my late dad always said “anyone can tip or support the mancs as they are questionably the best team in the prem since it was formed as far as trophey’s and titles are concerned” then he went out and washed his mouth with salt and water.

PS, forgot,
happy Paddy’s day to everyone especially to all our friends across the Irish sea.

Oh no! Just seen a couple of stories stating that Aquilani has a virus, and is doubtful for Lille & scum games!

That must be his 4th virus this year. I smell bullshit.

I am beginning to think that the club can’t afford Aquilani to play the matches that trigger the extra £4m to Roma. Every time he plays from the start and looks decent up pops the virus meaning he’ll be on the bench or not involved in the next few games. Either that or Rafa is getting his excuses in early for playing Lucas.

I saw Sneijder on the pitch y’day against the Chelshits and the guy was throwing passes all over and stood tough. But for every good pass he made, there were a one or two bad passes and one of my friends gave me the stat that he completed just about 67% of passes. Now why I am telling this is becoz, Wesley is the man who I had always hoped to come to L’pool rather than Aquaman. Now the guy is like 29. on the other hand we have Aquaman, who is young, who could do double the job than sneijder given he repeats the Pompey job consistently. I think had we gone for sneijder we could have played way better and still finished 2nd or 3rd given the injury toll. whereas with Aquaman we might have smucked out this year, but hopefully if we could hold on to our players, there could be hope for titles in the coming years. Aaargh. too much forward thinking. Lille first.

And here’s my thought on the Portsmouth game
http://bigfourza.wordpress.com/2010/03/17/the-ides-of-march/

LB, that cracked me up!
“beginning to think the club can’t afford…”
Where’s the fuckin gray area here?

I know you were just thinking out loud, and don’t really think that… but there’s no maybe’s about it… we CANNOT afford it.

Has anyone looked into this proposed Rhone investment deal?
Where’s the “due diligence” for fucks sake? Google them!!!!
Coz it don’t look good!!!

Business Week…(today)
“The Liverpool Football Club & Athletics Grounds Limited may divest a 40% stake for £100 million to the Rhone Group LLC, News of the World said, without saying where it got the information. The club would utilize the investment to repay debt to Royal Bank of Scotland Group Plc (RBS) and begin work on a new £350 million stadium, the newspaper said. The Club’s spokesman, Ian Cotton did not immediately answer a telephone call seeking comment, Bloomberg reported. Jonathon Brill, a spokesman for Tom Hicks and George Gillett, did not immediately return a phone call seeking comment, Bloomberg reported.”

1. What the fuck happened to the other £14 million???
Remember it was supposed to be £114 million… NOT £100 million?

2. Why did G&H or the Club, not return phone calls, about a deal they’ve already released a press statement about?

3. If the investment is only £100 million… which is the amount due RBS in July… then HOW, as the article states, are they going to both repay that £100 million to RBS… AND… start on the stadium???

3a. If the article misquoted the amount (possible since its a U.S. report, and the initial statement regarding the “proposed deal” reported it as “100 million Euros or £114 million”) and the deal is in fact for £114 million… then sure, as the article states, G&H can pay off RBS and start on the stadium…
…but how far exactly is £14 million quid gonna get us?
“There’ll be a concrete slab on the ground within 30 days” …is what I suspect the next press statement to say…

NOW… here’s a description of who/what the Rhone group is…
“Rhône Group LLC operates as a boutique investment banking firm that offers financial advisory services. The firm offers mergers and acquisitions, strategic alliances, leveraged buyouts, recapitalizations, joint partnerships, and business valuation services.”
They are listed as a “venture capital and private equity firm” whose clients include Nestle and Lehman Brothers…….

(insert sound effect of needle being scratched across a record)

1. Lehman Brothers????
Are we talking about the guys that were trading in Billions of Dollars of subprime loans… and when audited, sold those loans to a shell company (they created) so their books looked balanced and legit… then as soon as the auditors left, sold the loans back to themselves and closed the shell company?
Those Lehman Brothers?
One of a dozen companies that created the financial crises …. took bail-out money, paid their execs huge bonuses… and nearly bankrupted the world!
Those Lehman Brothers?

Now okay, they are just a client of Rhone, I hear you say… fine… okay, I’ll concede that…
but still… if not alarm bells… at the very least, eyes open, No?
Could G&H be working the same move here with this deal?
I don’t know, but its a question that should be getting asked.

So…
2. Rhone Group LLC.
You know what an LLC is, right?
Limited Liability Company.
Don’t be confused by the oh so convenient use of the word Limited… there is practically Zero liability in these set-ups. They are awesome!

Little quick example from personal experience.
I have a (former, for obvious reasons)friend who set one of these up.
The business idea was a good one and could easily have quadrupled investment in around 14-18 months with the right work ethic and moves.
He took $10,000 each off 10 investors, to start the business.
He basically lived off the $80k for a year… making small moves with the $20k to look like he was actually implementing the biz plan, (in the process, he actually stumbled into a possible deal, had he been doing things right, that could have seen a million dollar order) then after 14 months dissolved the LLC and declared bankruptcy
His “partners” in the LLC were his wife and two children (age 5 and (WTF? is right!)
His liability?
About $3,000 in taxes and $2,000 in lawyers fees.
His investors lost their money and had no legal recourse to sue him!

… I digress slightly with that story…
but this is what will own 40% of LFC, should the deal go through…
…A Limited Liability Company. (registered outside the UK)
The other 60%…?
…well that’ll still be owned by Kop Holdings… errrr… a Limited Liability Company (registered outside the UK)

Rhone is not a rich Arab or Russian with loads of dosh, or even a Thai bloke who financially raped his country, it is an “investment banking advisory service” offering “mergers and acquisitions advise(sic) and strategic alliances, joint ventures, and valuation services.”

They are gonna want a return on their investment. They are gonna want it to be substantial and they are gonna want it quick, not over a long term!

This is a bad fuckin deal lads!

oops… that bug eyed smiley was supposed to be age 8

Kind of cool, though, coz that little coding thing, perfectly illustrates the point, and what we as fans are up against.

if a 5 and bracket showed this , then the sentence would have read …
His “partners” in the LLC were his wife and two children (age and

You see 2 smiley faces and it prompts a feel-good factor.
The ages 5 and 8 don’t appear, so what’s wrong with running a family biz?
Maybe his two children are 26 and 28 year old graduates of the best business school on the planet.
What’s wrong with that?
No alarm bells there!

See how easy it is to hide these thing?

More very worrying reading, where not only the math doesn’t add up, and we are given yet more quoted prices not in-line with what we’ve been previously told, but some of the conclusions regarding what it all means are not entirely acurate!

Just watched barcelona beat stuttgart good match.

The thing i was struck by watching them is rather than sticking plodders in to keep things tight and then try to nick a goal.

They seem to play skilful players and get them organised defensively.

Ideally i think the best teams should have no more than 5 defensive minded players in the team(including the keeper).

That should be the goalie ,3 defenders,and 1 defensive central midfielder.
On the offensive side we should have another central midfielder in the gerrard/alonso mode who primarily are attack minded but can put in a shift and get a tackle in.

A attacking fullback and then 4 out and out attackers( based on how we play) 2 wingers a solo striker and a shadow striker who can pass it about if he finds himself in the middle of the park.

This is just a blueprint and obviously if the opposing team has a messi type player in the team who can slalom past 4 players and stick it in the top corner then the plan would have to be revised.

But there are not many teams like this around.

I think we should we should definitley focus our play based around our best attackers and if we do let in the odd badly defended goal that what training pitches are for.

If the skilful attackers can’t get their heads around there responsibilties ship em out and get players who will.

What we don’t want to do is drop them and stick in
defensive minded players on a permanent basis who shore things up and tighten up the defence but don’t add anything to our attacking play.

IN RAFA WE TRUST Y.N.W.A

Surely an exaggeration LB? I think this is the second illness Aquilani’s picked up this year. Does anyone have any evidence to support the theory that Rafa can only use him in so many games to avoid a payment to Roma (we can’t afford), or is it mere speculation? It would obviously explain a few things, but that’s no evidence in itself.

According to the information I’ve picked up online, it doesn’t matter how many games Aquilani plays this season, we will still have to cough up about £6 million by 30 June 2010. This is the entire payment plan according to my sources (figures converted from € to £ according to the most recent rate of exchange):

- £4.55m initial payment 7 August 2009
- £2.73m by 4 January 2010
- £6.37m by 30 June 2010
- £4.55m by 30 June 2011

Added to this we have some extra fees that have been announced on various sites, among them LFC History.

- £255,000 for each time LFC reach the Champions League from 2010/11 – 2014/15.
- £212,000 after Aquilani plays 35, 70, 105 and 140 games.
- £850,000 if LFC win the Premier or Champions League before 2014.

First of all, would it be justified/necessary to leave Aquilani out of the squad sufficiently to postpone the payment of £212,000 when we will have to pay the £6.37m by 30 June no matter what?
Second of all, as far as I know, Aquilani has featured in no more than 15 games this season. If we reach the final in Europa League we will have 15 games left to play before the end of the season. That means he won’t reach those 35 games until August or September. Assuming the information presented above is true, it just doesn’t make sense to me that Rafa would leave him out because of impending payments we can’t afford.

That would mean that these so-called viruses must be genuine. Personally I’m well happy as long as he can escape the serious injuries of his past. But of course – after such a promising performance as that against Pompey – no matter what the reason is, his unavailability will be a cause of frustration for both the player and the manager. Not to mention the supporters.

Rafamuffin
Barca are playing the best football in the world right now but could they do that against the likes of Blackburn week in week out in the EPL, i doubt it half the players would crippled by half time and refs wouldn’t give a f*ck theres no England players in the Barca team so it would be open season
Question If Torres or Masch or any other foreign international get their legs broken Do England have a better chance of winning the World Cup ?

Sachem
The 35th game would fall after the transfer deadline as closed by which time money will be raised by selling more assets no doubt.
If this is the case ie there is no money at all in the current budget and the £212,000 just is’nt there yet, then we are in deep sh*t and getting rid of the Yanks is the only option.
This HP agreement with Roma is the tip of the iceburg as regards to our debts, and its bigger than the one that sunk the Olympic.
As every one knows nothing beats cold hard cash if Aquilani costs that much on HP how much would we have got him for cash up front 12 mill ?
Sell to buy is our biggest hindrance as far as potential buyers are concerned them knowing we’re skint and in a rush to sell, means they’ll drag it out with low bids and by the time we’ve got the money its too late the player we wanted has been signed by some cash up front club
It all needs to change and thats not going to happen while G&H are around
YNWA

Ah shit… a new blog, so people will miss the discussion on finances from #328 on.

I seem to have forgotten the link for #332
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2010/mar/17/tom-hicks-george-gillett-liverpool-anfield

And rome, that’s not necessarily true about HP versus cash in a world of leveraged buyouts….

If you offer me 12 million, or 8 million now and an additional 8 million over the next 3-4 years… unless I absolutely need the 12 right now, why would I not take the 16?

Short term biz plan vs Long term biz plan.