Good blog Gerry,
my lad and me were talking about Carra and Gerrard yesterday, he said to me “dad is’nt it strange that both of them stink for the reds at the same time i told him its coincidence son mind you they all they’ve all stunk this season, but i think he has a point as you say Gerry those two are our home grown senior players and they really should look in the mirror more often.
Watched Barca v Stuttgart tonight, 2 more goals for Messi and the commentator said “rooney best player on the planet, i dont think so, Messi on this form nobody comes near him.
And i see the mancs are furious that SG got away with that elbow incident on brown “ferdinand got banned for 4 games for the same offence, it seems there is one rule for all the prem teams and a different rule for us”, you could’nt make it up, i think the word is “incredulous.

Bad typo,
that should read “they’ve all fuckin stunk this season” he think’s i dont swear?.

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I just saw that Reira is apparently complaining to the media about Rafa lack of communication with the players. Saying some nasty stuff to me and if this is true he should be fined wages and replace Babel who seems to be coming out from the cold.

“When you stop playing in this manner it must be something personal,” Riera said. “If I’m doing something wrong and you are my boss and you count on me, then why not come and tell me what I need to do to play? That’s what really hurts.

“Torres and Reina encourage me. They tell me that they know that if I play, I will do well. But a week goes by and then another and another and nothing has been achieved. There shouldn’t be a lack of communication either, because I speak Spanish and my English isn’t bad either.

“In the two years I have been here he [Benítez] has never managed a situation with a player by talking to him. He thinks he is the boss and everyone else is deaf. The dialogue with the players is practically zero.”

Benítez has been linked with the Real job, but Riera does not see him as the ideal candidate, insisting that the football played by Liverpool is functional, not beautiful.

“In Madrid, they ask you to play beautifully as well as win,” Riera said. “We have never played beautiful football — effective, yes.

Rafa lose a dressing room? But how?!

Not been funny but if i was Riera i’d have gone seen Rafa knocked on his door walked in and asked what do i have to do to replace Babel i’d of a got a answer. Its got to be more productive than talking to the press on the same day as Vilareal have expressed a interest in buying him in the summer for reportedly 6 mill.
Unless he wants to go home to Spain of course in which case adios.
Hang on its the old Ryan Babel moan untill i get noticed way of getting back into the team well if it worked for him why not.
YNWA

Fuck me, I just can’t believe those comments by Riera. How trustworthy is the source on that? Unless it’s been published by quality journalists I would bet my ass it’s either entirely fictitious or loosely based on an interview with spanish media.
It just “happen” to follow exactly along the same moronic reasoning employed by the anti Rafa brigade.
Besides, Torres among others have repeatedly claimed the exact opposite of those Rafa comments by Riera. For some strange reason those aren’t given the same publicity as the negative ones.

Digger, losing a dressing room is no laughing matter. I lost a bathroom once, I came home pissed one night and couldn’t find the fucking thing anywhere!
In the end I had to take a dump in the kitchen sink and I can tell you my missus was not too pleased about that the next morning, and I’ve still got the scars to prove it!

Been waiting for this Blog Gerry. Shanks, nice one! Even celebrated a bit of Paddy’s day here in SA! Feels like I have Ghandi’s sandel in my mouth this morning.
Any news on Aqua’s ‘virus’? Will he be out of tonight’s game against Lille? Sachem, totally agree with you. Torres keeps on going on about how Rafa is always talking to him, always improving his game. Riera should just try knocking on the door of Rafa’s office. Mind you, I though he looked ok when he came back from injury, & then Maxi joined us & usurped him in the starting 11. But again, Rafa can’t win, whatever side he puts out. These comments by Riera just adds more ammo for the anti-rafa mob to stick the knife into his back. Sad to see.

Great article Gerry and I could not agree with you more on the disappointing form of Gerrard and Carra. Carra has played badly this season and has lacked the consistency and form we have come to expect from him but I do not think he has lacked commitment in fact at times he has run around like a headless chicken when a cooler head might have been better.

Gerrard on the other hand has been more of a worry because he is so far off form and his influence is much more missed by the team, take that along with his shitty attitude and you can see the adverse effect on the entire team. Instead of inspiration he creates the opposite.

With the injuries and run of form we need a fit and firing Gerrard in every sense to help dig us out of the situation.

These players of today really give me the shits with this twitter this and twitter that, speaking to the press, moaning about everything. Where are the balls, boss have you a problem with me, can I sort it out, what are your plans, do I fit in. For fuck sake how can that approach be ignored or how can it not help clarify the situation. A Manager has thousands of things to think about and in Rafa’s case much more than most. Sammie is very approachable and is the perfect counter to Rafa’s style. I would not be surprise if it has been blown out of proportion, but the timing sucks.

On the bright side with the form that Babel is in it is not as serious.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/mar/17/albert-riera-liverpool

Damaging accusations in my eyes

Heh heh! That must have been some session Ger! I’m reading ’44 years…’ at the minute. Reade tells a tale of how one night he and his mates, hammered, pissed in the potted plants outside George Bests front door! Years later after fessing up to Best, George nonchalantly informed him ‘no worries, Id never have noticed having filled em so many times myself while fumbling round tryna find me keys and get in’. Hah!

Riera must be truly desperate. Frankly I don’t know what he thought he would accomplish by those comments. His chances of being picked for the Spanish World Cup squad must have gone from slim to virtually non-existent as a consequence of that attack on the manager. Surely it would have been easier to just talk to the manager himself about the situation. A lot of players these days are just too spoiled and arrogant for their own good. That’s where the real problem lies, not with Rafa Benítez.

Although Riera’s comments are ill-timed and unprofessional – I think it does potentially give us a worrying glimpse behind closed doors of the Anfield dressing room.

He’s not the first player this season to comment on the bad atmosphere at the club and as has been mentioned before, Gerrard’s and Carragher silence has been deafening.

I genuinely have felt throughout this entire shitty season that the players body language has been terrible and it does seem to point towards a breakdown between several players and the manager. If this is the case then Rafa surely is living on borrowed time.

here’s hoping we blitz Lille tonight in a similar fashioned as last Monday and make us forget about all our simmering problems for a while

Hmmmmm….

Wen liverpool wins, the headlines go something like; “Torress/Kuyt/Gerrard -enter player name- Wins it for liverpool …. But wen we lose, headlines are Rafa has lost it, Rafa under pressure, Rafa this, Rafa That ….

Wonder why!!!!

“He thinks he is in charge and he just turns a deaf ear to everyone else,”
Sorry Albert but he is in charge.
“Torres and Reina encourage me”. you’d think the huge salary would be encouragement enough.
Then you’ve got the lack of professional attitude by motivating yourself and using your initiative.
Its one thing telling young players how to improve but for a seasoned pro he shouldn’t need it.
The other option is to have words with your Captain as they should be acting as a kind of shop steward.
But Gerrard seems to have his own opinion and that is we need better players and the owners need to cough up and thats basically the only thing he’s moaned about this season along with Torres.
Is Gerrard big enough to say he wants rid of Rafa ? I think so.
If G&H were gone would Gerrard be happy ? I think so .
If we dont qualify for CL have we more chance of getting G&H out ? I think so.
Will we beat Lille tonight ? I think so.
YNWA

Someone on here mentioned the whole Aquilani potentially not being played because it would trigger the neccessity for LFC to pay more for him.

Ok – can anyone explain this to me? Surely Rafa would go ballistic (as should any manager) if the board were telling him that he can only use Aquilani for a limited amount of matches in cases it ends up costing Liverpool more money…?????

The lad does seem to catch a lot of viruses though

Arthur:

I wrote a post about the Aquilani deal in the comment section of the previous blog and given my information is correct it just doesn’t make sense to me that the italian is played more sparingly to postpone payments.

This is the deal in its entirety according to the information I’ve been able to find:

- £4.55m initial payment 7 August 2009
- £2.73m by 4 January 2010
- £6.37m by 30 June 2010
- £4.55m by 30 June 2011

(The amounts above might not be exactly what we’ll end up paying since I’ve converted them from € to £.)

- £255,000 for each time LFC reach the Champions League from 2010/11 – 2014/15.
- £212,000 after Aquilani plays 35, 70, 105 and 140 games.
- £850,000 if LFC win the Premier or Champions League before 2014.

This leaves us with the following question:
Would it be justified/necessary to leave Aquilani out of the squad sufficiently to postpone the payment of £212,000 when we will have to pay the amount of £6.37m by 30 June no matter how many games he features in?
Secondly, as far as I know, Aquilani has featured in no more than 15 games this season. If we reach the final in Europa League we will have 15 games left to play before the end of the season. That means he won’t reach those 35 games until August or September. If he’s played sparingly for financial reasons now, will Rafa be forced to do the same until he reaches 75 games and so on? It all sounds dubious to me, but only fuck knows.

Rafas been on borrowed time for a while now Arthur. And I agree on the widely acknowledged theory that hes lost elements, if not all, of the dressing room. Theres just simply too many signs pointing to it. Its impossible to ignore and sweep under the carpet. Whats surprising about Rieras comments, to me at least, is that so many people seem surprised! Theres nothing new here. We’ve seen it all before. Keane last yr. Babel this yr. Crouch. Bellamy. Alonso etc etc. Lotta bios to read in couple of yrs….

Arthur maybe Rafa has gone ballistic just not in public. I’m amazed Rafa is still here after last summer’s transfer window. It showed a distinct lack of ambition from the club and most managers would have walked and then told the world exactly why.

I am pretty sure that Aquilani does not have a virus. I just have a feeling that it’s bullshit. It is possible that Rafa uses that as an excuse to drop Aquilani to the bench and play Lucas but I find this very unlikely because Rafa is the type of manager to make those decisions and not care about the backlash. It would though be a PR disaster if he publicly stated that we can’t play Aquilani because we can’t afford it. The club would be an absolute laughing stock and it would probably be deemed gross misconduct meaning he could be sacked without getting the compensation. Managers only reveal those things after they have left the football club.

But LB – surely Sachem’s excellent post at # 19 clears that particular conspiracy up, no?

Yeah, a few people have made that statement Arthur, probably myself most recently.

I got it from two articles written around Nov/Dec, one by Barrett in the Times and one on Tomkins blog… so that’s why I believed them… they may not get everything right, but I’d say they are reliable sources… but I can’t find the links for them anymore (someone at the last blog asked for such and I had a quick blimp, but no joy.)

Given that Rafa not only has to manage not only the playing side of things, but also part of the financial side of things, I doubt he’d say anything just yet.

If Rafa stays, he’ll need funds in the summer and Aqua’s situation (if these payments are in fact due) would have an effect on his plans… especially since he’s just negotiated a new contract for Pepe which will have no doubt included a pay-raise!

In regards finances, if you missed them… the last couple of entries in the last blog are worth a read. I posted some info regarding this Rhone Group that’s rumored to be investing in the club. I’m not suggesting I know ALL about them, but there are questions that need to be asked about them!

As for Riera…
Pro-Rafa or Anti-Rafa, rome had it right and posted exactly what I was gonna post.

I can only think, Albert missed the “Manager” sign on Rafa’s door?

I read some comments sections on a few news articles this morning… the lad has beenj kissed and turned from a frog into a princess!
You’d think he’d been lighting up Anfield the way some people are prattling on about how poorly he’s been treated!
The lad has been a bit part player at best… and for every cross he’s put in after beating a man, he’s had the ball stripped off his feet 3 times.

This season is getting to be like a fuckin High School Musical… or a fuckin John Hughes movie.

The popular kids (SG, FT, Carra, Pepe, Masch) are sitting at one table for lunch.

The Geeks (Lucas, Insua Ngog) are sitting at another.

The punks/rockers (Kuyt, Agger, Skrtel) over by the fence.

The Skater kids (Johnson, Riera, Cavalieri, Babel) over in the corner.

And then there’s the table where the new kids sit.

And Rafa’s the headmaster trying to get everyone to feel a bit of collective school spirit.

If only Riera could find some girl to loan him her knickers for a few days, so he could become the king of the geeks…
… or maybe he could take the money he was gonna use to buy his telescope and hire the head cheerleeder to pretend to be dating him….

… but then hey, its not all bad…
…now he’s in detention, maybe he’ll make friends with a jock and a punk and maybe, just maybe get a shot at the popular redhead, or the weird goth chick…
… if he can avoid Pellegrino the pesky detention guard!

…And all this on the eve of one of our most important games of the season!
Good Fuckin Timing!

Didn’t the same thing happen on the eve of CL games?
Only it was Babel that time!

aitch i was just about to comment on the timing factor. atleast the lads based in UK should be used to this by now. European game plus game against big big rival = some story to stir things up for Liverpool. A few days later papers come out with ‘player says he was misquoted’ stories. I wish there was some way to make money out of the predictability of these stories.

YNWA

Digger, I think its LFC who are on borrowed time.

Arthur, I still think the Aquilani virus is a load of balls. After what happened to Portsmouth I aint got a clue what source should be reliable when it comes to finances in football. I am reading “Why England Lose….” It’s a bloody good book. Not just about why England lose but goes into a lot of other details about football. One of the things that stand out is that football business is a true cowboy operation.

To be honest though I am more interested in how the hell we are going to pay RBS £100m by July. Riera’s feelings come lower down on the priority chart. Having said that I do think Rafa could go on a people person’s course. He see’s players as chess pieces rather than human beings in my opinion. That has it’s pros and cons.

When did the world become populated by pansy-arsed cocksuckers?

(not a reference to anyone in here… I’m talking football players.)

Players ARE chesspieces. A manager’s job is to select the right tools for the job… as HE sees fit.
That is the very basis of his job description!

Yes okay… a bit of personality doesn’t go amiss. You’re far more likely to try your hardest when you like your boss, than when you don’t.

But ultimately, is Rafa doing anything different than Shanks did? He could freeze players out in a heartbeat too.
The difference was the times and the power players had in those times.

I think I don’t like what the world is becoming, and I don’t mean that in a crotchety-old-bugger, back-in-my-day-sonny sort of way.

I have been watching a lot of Band of Brothers lately. Not just the rebroadcasts, but the making of, and more pointedly the 90 minute doc that is just interviews with the actual guys.

They were a breed from a different time, man… and no disrespect to serving men and women now, I think you’d be hard-pressed to find too many men like them nowadays.

I’m so sick of hearing footballers complain about how the boss doesn’t like them.
I’ve been there and I wasn’t getting paid 60,000 fuckin quid per week, (I was working a 40 hour a week job and then playing footy in my spare time,) and I put in more graft than some of these fuckers.

If the boss likes you, you’ll give your all for him, but if the boss doesn’t like you, you equally, (or maybe even more so, coz you’re pissed off,) show him everything you’ve got, to force him to play you.
And if that doesn’t work, then you fuck off to another team.
You don’t sit in a corner whinging about it, crying all over your supermodel girlfriend’s fake tits… that were paid for by the contract the manager you’re bitching about gave you! (especially considering your salary basically comes from the pockets of hard working fans who do have to graft fro more than 4 hours per day!)

(sheepishly steps down off soapbox)

I actually liked Riera. He’s got a bit of guille about him, but on a scale of 1 to 10, when it comes to all this banter about players who are, or are not “good enough” for LFC, I’d take fuckin Lucas over him, hands down, every fuckin day of the week.

Riera has put in far more substandard performances than game winning ones… or to be more even-handed about it… seriously contributive perfromances!

And I agree with LB… if the clock is ticking… its for the club, not the manager.

Heh heh! Lovin the Breakfast Club stuff Aitch! I agree on the ‘virus’ LB. I just burst out laughing when I read it. I’d been chatting with a mate and told him Rafa will have some bullshit reason not to play him. Went online not 2 hours later and lo and behold….. txtd him ‘bud, your not gonna believe this but!…..’ Ah well.

dig, out of curiousity – were you ever dumped by a spanish/latin bird?

I wish Bhav!

ahahahah – damn it i thought i had almost cracked it!

Aitch, i think this is in line with your comment #27.

http://www.goal.com/en/news/9/england/2010/03/18/1839030/dietmar-hamann-blasts-albert-riera-for-attack-on-liverpool

Nice one Didi.

Top Lad Didi.
We sold him at least 1 season too early. Not because of what he could do on the field, but because of what he brought to the dressing room in terms of experience and temparament.

If we’d had the dosh, I bet we’d have kept him.

Funnily enough, we endured injuries in his position the season he left… just as we did with Sami this season. Both would have played more than expected when they made their decisions.
Funny old game, innit?

I dunno, that Lucas, eh?
Too fuckin defensive!

Aitch the moment Lucas is showing Stevie how its done he’s playing really well he deserves a goal.

I dunno about a game of 2 halves… that was a half of 2 halves.

Two things are celar about this season…

We have an off button… and we’re not afraid to use it.

…and…

We have a bullet in the chamber with our own feet squarely in the sights!

Irony, theredman, I was having a deserved pop at the anti-Lucas brigade.
Once again, he played better than Stevie… but SG and Nando will get all the plaudits.

Good turn from Babel again today. He’s still sloppy and gives the ball away too much, but he is much, much improved!
Riera, are you watching?

A very subdued gerrard he must be carrying a knock but alls well that ends well.

Plus kudos to kuyt he sticks his head in where most players would not stick a boot.

YNWA

Well done to the lads! It was about time we see some luck go our way.

I could swear Lille would score in the final 30 minutes and was willing our lads to go for a 3rd goal. Good thing I’m not a prophet, because had they scored we would have been there for the taking. It annoys me that we try to win games “economically” – with minimum effort, so that the players save energy for the next game. I think this is one of the reasons for our failures this season. Now that the summer is in sight I hope Rafa unleashes the reds and we show no mercy!

Lol! Aitch you couldent even wait til the game was over! But seriously, the 2 lads done well, fair play to them. Mondays performance lit a little fire under em perhaps? Relieved to be in the quarters and we head to the enemy on Sunday off a good win and with confidence.

Wait til the game was over???

You’re fuckin jokin aren’t you?

You yourself have said you see his name on the teamsheet the moaning starts…. That’s before the game has even started… let alone before its over.
Behave!

You give the 2 lads their due… fair enough… but any kudos for Rafa?
He selected the right players that did the job, no?
Anything?
Hello, is this thing on?
Bueller, Bueller?

Forget about it Aitch. I gave up on Digger a long time ago. Not the real Digger, mind you!

Lol!

I had to view the game on my Iphone..what a way to follow a game.especially one that was so important to Our season.Hard for me to really comment on the Match having not actually seen it, but well done the Lads.
Sounds from what I have read here that Lucas had a good game, maybe watching Aqua on Monday gave him the kick up the Arse that we all need at times.
Torres did his job again tonight. what would our season have looked like if he had been able to stay healthy all season long.
It’s funny how some players seem to never get an injury and others just seem to pick them up all season long.

Aitch I enjoyed your comparisons to the ‘Breakfast Club” very funny.
Anyone of you have played any kind of team sports
will know that, that happens a lot more in dressing rooms than people think.

Like bhavster said..it does seem rather curious that these inflammatory quotes always seem to show up on the “eve of a big Liverpool game.
I wonder what the “crap english media have in store for us before the “Scum ” game on sunday?

Anyway well done Liverpool F.C.
I’m off to watch some NCAA Basketball.
Cheers.

Rafas hand was ‘forced’ on selecting Lucas Aitch so no need to throw a party there. But I will give him credit for retaining Babel. Rewarding good performances with a place in the team is a reward system that works. There has to be checks and balances. Otherwise ya git what we had here this week…a failure to communicate….there are some men you just cant reach! (cough…rafa…cough). Anyway, well done Rafa. Happy Aitch?!

Interesting quote from Gerrard:

Gerrard told Five: “He (Benitez) is the manager and he’s allowed to criticise the team at the right time but I think the reaction over the last two games has been superb and the plan is to maintain it on Sunday against Man United.”

Maybe he is beginning to show some support for Rafa

Jeez Red,
Lucas has been one of the most concistently solid at his assigned task, and consistent overall performers of the season.
It is his reputation of previous seasons perfromances that are dogging him. (and even that’s a bit skewed against the lad.)

If anything, I’d suggest maybe Aqua has been watching Lucas.

but as you said… factions exist in any squad. The larger the squad, and the more cosmopolitan its make-up, the more clickes.

When all is going well, you don’t see it, coz everyone is happy and getting along, but bad results and people start grouping into their little factions.

I’ve played with gobshites I couldn’t stand.
Your the first to hug the fuckers when they score, and you’ll happily buy them a beer when you’re on a winning streak, but when you’re not…
… just how big a gobshite they are comes to the surface and you can’t stand to play with the fuckers!
I’m sure the cunts felt the same way about me… and I’m not suggesting their opinion wasn’t in some cases justified.

Digger why was rafa’s hand forced?? you were texting your mates before the game with the prophecy that rafa will find an excuse to drop aquilani? Do you now believe he really had a virus?? Cake. Eat. Have. Too. It. Can’t. You. The. And

ynwa

hang on…

#45
“Rafas hand was ‘forced’ on selecting Lucas Aitch so no need to throw a party there.”

…but errrr….

#28
“I’d been chatting with a mate and told him Rafa will have some bullshit reason not to play him. Went online not 2 hours later and lo and behold… ”

So which is it. His hand was forced, or he deliberately “made up” a “bullshit reason” so he could select Lucas?

You can’t have it both ways.

Bhav, Aitch, by placing the word forced in inverted comma’s I was infering that I dont believe it was really forced. Sorry, bad English on my part I guess.

laboured at times but always nice too see a few goals well done reds. would be so fuckin sweet to throw a spanner in the manc wank fest on sunday unleash el nino on the fuckers.

what about that fulham game? absolute cracker fair play to them and what a strike from dempsey better beware engerland!!!!

No worries dig. As long as we agree it was a tactical masterstroke from the genius rafa. Good night!

My bet would be that Aquilani actually is ill at the moment and that’s the main reason he didn’t play tonight. I don’t think Rafa needed an excuse to play Lucas instead however, and that’s because I don’t think Aquilani is yet ready to start two games in four days. Or at least, it wouldn’t be worth the risk to push him that hard at the moment, whilst Rafa knows the players who started both games this week can take it.

Besides all this, I don’t it’s very unlikely Aquilani would pick up several viruses in a short period of time. I read in some Roma forum that the supporters back in Italy used to bemoan that he easily picked up injuries but also that he had a slightly weaker immune system than most other players. If this is true or not, I don’t know, but I remember last season when Degen got injured time and again. Unlikely things happen, you know.

Heh heh! Ok Bhav, just this once! Fair point Sachem. Unlikely things do indeed happen. I’ve seen plenty of them at Anfield this season! I know you probably dont agree with me mate, but just felt this one coming a mile away. Call me a cynic but there it is, just my take on it. For what its worth I’ve no doubt Lucas will give his all on Sunday, hope he scores the winner. But thats what Lucas’ role should be and HAS to be from here on out now that Aquilani is fit – squad player filling in in his absence.

If Aquilani isn’t ill (his 2nd virus) then wouldn’t he say something, unless it is financial.
Wouldnt Albert of told us about it while having his tantrum,
Nice one Didi your a true pro.
Aitch
Band of Brothers is the only box set i own truly amazing people “The battered bastards of Bastogne ” wouldn’t go crying to the press they’d use their initiative.
Nearly forgot great result and some solid performances and when i saw babel tracking back and helping Insua out i thought nice one he’s cracked it.
3 games in 6 days ending with the Mancs not the best circumstances but i still think we’ll get a win.
YNWA

PS Albert Riera’s tantrum not Alberto’s ( not that he’s had a tantrum )

At last a real professional well said Didi.

I am really confused right know, maybe Digger can help me how did Lucas win a penalty when we all know he is a defensive midfielder that always passes backwards or sideways and never, I repeat never gets into the box?

Some great touch football at times its just a pity Gerrard did not play up to Lucas’s standard… just joking. Dressing room lost anyone?

It will be very interesting to see the team sheet for the Mancs game. I wonder if he will throw on Aquilani and attack them where they are at their weakest. Who would be a Manger?

Was it just me or did anyone else think Insua had a good game and looked really threatening down the left?

Digger

When will you start to understand the concept of horses for courses

Aquaman will be the right man to play in some games, Lucas in others, everything is black and white with you and you seem only to focus on players and not tactics.

When we go to the scum on Sunday I fully expect him to start with Lucas as we will need to win the battle in midfield, can you not see the logic of that.

Its not about this player is better than that player, its about what will work

Keith, I agree. Insua had a good game as well. Also, couldn’t believe my eyes when I saw Babel tracking back. I know we have been having a go at Stevie G, but small things like his comments re Rafa (see Axchoice #46), and his fist-pumping when we scored suggests he is getting his mind right again. Well, I hope anyway.
Wasn’t at all surprised by Lucas’s performance. He has been making super runs & getting into the box every game he plays. The only surprise was that his shot was on target. First time ever? Well done Lucas, you perform day in & day out.
Lastly, just want to add to Aitch’s soap box at # 27. I used to hate the fella called Beckham – mainly because he was a Manc. Always thought he was overated. But my attitude changed when he was at Real & a certain Fabio Capello was the coach. He didn’t like Becks, and relegated him to training with the reserve team. What did Becks do? He didn’t go to the press or throw a wobly. He tucked in his chin & worked even harder at training. Eventually Capello noticed this, gave him a game & next thing he was a regular starter in the 1st team. That’s what you call a professional. BTW, Fabio was big enough to admit he made a mistake by ignoring Becks. Good bloke with morals & family values. Remind you of anyone?

I see Liverpool have suspended Riera. Nice one!
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/liverpool/article7066454.ece

John Terry?

Only kidding Rafalution.

Haven’t read the comments yet but wanted to say what a good performance from the lads in red and a special mentions for Lucas (timing of his runs was excellent), Insua and Babel (who worked his bollocks off, which is a good sign).

For me Torres is still not 100% match fit (which is great news for us when he gets there) and Stevie G is not his usual self, although his performances have improved of late.

Anyway, a desrved win, some hard graft and a good performance to boot. Can’t complain about that!

rafalution, if we’re talking top men who fight for their place in the team, i’ve got to take my hat off, raise a glass, and give a thumb to yossi (i’d spill some of the pint and wet the hat, but it’d be worth it!). he was always on the bench during his first season, but every time he came on, he gave it everything and showed real passion for the club. he obviously did the same in training and last season he was up there with gerrard and torres i reckon. this year has been a tough one for him with injuries, horse placentas an that, but i’ve got a lot of respect for benny and he’ll have a say in the run-in i’m sure.

fuckin espn didn’t show lfc v lille so i’m watching a recording of athletico v sporting and catching highlights of lfc at half/full time. bah!

hats off to all the lads for the turn-around (7 goals in 2 games). jeezus, its good to have torres back! as i said in a previous post, imagine the scum’s season if rooney had been out for that long. what a finisher torres is! with him up top there’s always hope, and his return really highlights how (comparatively) inadequate ngog is.

this season ain’t over yet!

Tears running down my face here,
“He think’s he is the boss and everyone else is deaf”, pack the football in Bert and start as a stand up comic your nation needs you.

No problem Keith. That was his Newcastle pass moment for this season. Well done to the lad. 5yr, for me it pretty much is about this player being better than that player. Wouldent you agree that the majority of the time a team with better players than a team with lesser players wins? For me Aquilani is a better player than Lucas. He’s made 5 prem starts and has 3 assists and a goal. Lucas has 1 assist all season. Its night and day as far as I’m concerned. Aquilani. Makes. Us. Better. Is all I’m saying.

Bah! United’s luck is devilish! Once again they get a favorable draw in the Champs League. Will be so easy for them to get to the final again. Pricks!

Maybe this will help, though, again, I dont really understand the consternation involved in stating my preference for one player over another. Anyway, lads, do ye remember in the late eighties we had the solid if unspectacular Nigel Spackman in our squad? Spackman was a workmanlike safe squad player who was only deployed when one of Whelan, Molby, or Mc Mahon were injured. He always did a neat, tidy, reliable job. Never set the world alight. Was never gonna. Thats how I see Lucas. A solid squad player.

Bayern are a good side. Don’t underestimate the French either! I think Barca will in it outright though. Looking forward to seeing the Arse against Barca.

When is the UEFA draw?

LB, the UEFA draw is in 10 minutes.

Benfica followed by Valencia or Atletico if successful. We’ll be the home team in the final should we get there.

playing 2nd leg home in QF and SF

I don’t know much about Benfica other than the fact that they are the current leaders of the Portuguese Liga and have a brilliant young player named Ángel Di María. They also have one of Rafa’s old players from his Valencia days, Pablo Aimar, who never really lived up to his potential but is still a quality player. Trickier opposition than Lille it would seem. A couple of seasons ago I wouldn’t even be worried facing a side like this in Europe, but this season I won’t take anything for granted. They did of course knock us out of the Champions League 4 years ago.

The semifinals could be exciting if we reach them with either Rafa or Torres facing their former club.

Not an easy program, but with the possible exception of Fulham, there are no pushover teams at this stage. Benfica will be a tricky game, and Valencia or Atletico are going to truly test us. If we get to the final we should be the firm favorites to win it.

In the end of the day we are the team to fear, so I remain quietly optimistic!

don’t think we should technically fear any team and having both quarter and (potentially) semi final second legs at Anfield does give us a real advantage.

Oh and I quietly fancy Bayern Munich to give Utd a really tough test

bayern owe Scums one as well – dont think they’ve met since the biggest fluke in football that was the 99 final.

Liverpool v Fulham in the final then?

Wouldn’t bet against it!

LurganKop you can go and fuck yourself for your comment in the last blog. All I did was make a score prediction, with some degree of accuracy I might add. Your just jealous cos your struggling down in 4th – 395 points behind the Pearce (Oldhorse) in the preduction league.

Just wanted to mention Kuyt’s tenacity in winning the ball back and supplying Gerrard whose saved shot was then put away by Torres.

Kuyt never gave up on that ball and it was crucial. If he hadn’t won that ball then it could have been Lille scoring instead, and us waving goodbye to our last chance of silverware. Well done Dirk!

See we have another chuckle brother.

Digger I thought the last pass when he put Torres through was his Newcastle Kodack moment of the season. Are you know saying he has made two contributions in one season worthy of your praise?

The lads a genesis. Nobody is saying that Aquilani is not the better player, if we want to be accurate Gerrard is the one who is off the pace by some margin, but we all know what he is capable of so we let his bad performances slide.

It is also not a matter of him being back up, it’s a long season with lots of games so every squad member is vital. Lucas has stood up to be counted in more ways than one. He has been by far the most consistent midfielder in the team this season. He deserves more credit than he gets. We forget his young age and that he is still learning and adapting and should not have had so much responsibility as well as hostility heaped on his young shoulders.

He is worthy of inclusion in the full Brazilian senior squad and their world cup winning coach rates him so does a two time La Leiga winner, CL winner and countless other cups yet our armchair experts say he is not good enough for Liverpool.

On what basis do they make this judgment? By comparing him to some of the best midfielders in the world like Masch Gerrard, Alonso and Aquilani.

Tell me how does Obi One compare, Ballack, Fletcher, Carrick, Anderson, Barry, Jenus, Hulse to those above mentioned players. That’s right they are also no where near as good. Does that make them bad players… no.

@ Steve #78 to be honest I thought Dirk’s challenge was a foul, but how good a finish was Nando’s when he was on his last legs.
Also how pissed off would Blatter & Platini be if Fulham and Liverpool reached the final of the Europa and Manure and Arsenal reached the final of the Champions League. LOL

Gazza, I get this horrible feeling that EUFA would never let that happen!

As for Kuyt’s challenge leading up to the final goal, I also thought that the Ref was going to blow for a foul and free kick to Lille. Obviously delighted he didn’t.

I am not arguing whether Lucas is a better player than Aquilani, I am pointing out that their skill sets are different.

It is entirely possible that even if Aquilani had been fit on Thursday, Lucas may still have played because of the danger of conceding an away goal.

Football managers don’t look at players and decide who is best, they decide what is needed.

Digger Your arguments seem to be of the my dad could beat your dad up variety and they require a bit more depth than that.

It is not sufficient to say this player is better than that player, there are many more aspects to winning a football match than just picking your best players

Terry Pearce, thanks for proving my point. It’s always better coming from the horse’s mouth, so to speak.

For the REAL red supporters, I have just got a copy of the ’15 minutes that shook the world’ and it’s great gear. So let me know if any of you would like a copy and I will see what I can do.

Never fear, Lurgankop is here. LOL!

Keith, 5yr, I’m not entirely sure what the issue or what we’re debating is anymore. We seem to be in agreement no? We all concur that Aquilani is the better player right? 5yr states their skill sets are different, I’m guessing there wont be much arguement on that. I highlighted said difference in #65 pointing out the disparity in their attacking stats which were achieved over vastly contrasting time scales. 5yr, you say managers decide what is needed. Well, yeah, they should. In the real world anyway. Do you think, given what we know about both players respective attacking abilities that what we needed against Wolves, Wolves mind, was for Lucas to start and for Aquilani to remain seated for 90mins as our manager watched the game peter out? Do you think that against Wolves fellow mighty bottom dwellers Wigan,that Lucas’ very particular skill set was what was needed to win that game? Personally I thought there was a bit of a difference when Aquilani came on that night. But thats just me. At least Rafa is learning and at least brought him on this time. But then again, we were 1 down. The point I’m trying to make lads is these are games Lucas should never be on the pitch for when we have a superior player on the bench. Its akin to pissing away points and in my opinion is managerial suicide for Benitez. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, Lucas will be Rafas Little bighorn. There is no need for the lad against these teams and especially not now that Aquilani is fit. He shouldent have even been there when Aquilani wasnt fit, Gerrard should have been, but thats another arguement. Lads, to be honest I cant understand what it is ye’re missing in my point. So one more time, in a nutshell, Liverpool FC’s best, most dynamic, attacking, gives us the best chance to win, midfield partnership, is in my opinion, Aquilani and Mascherano. I’m sorry if I’ve offended anyones footballing sensibilities or hurt ya boys feelings but thats just the way it is. One goal and one assist from a Lucas/Mascherano partnership over the course of the season attests to that partnerships limited attacking abilities for me. And now that we have a fit and superior alternative I’d obviously like to see it utilized more than the squad player who’s filled in and done a solid if unspectacular job. And maybe thats the crux of this issue. Is it that because I want what makes Liverpool better ye somehow percieve it to be me dissing Lucas? I’ve never come in here and called him names or shit or anything of that nature. I merely point out his limitations and how playing him in leiu of a superior player is restricting our cut and thrust, rendering us cautious and safe and lacking the defence splitting vision and attacking urgency witnessed Monday night. I recognize and appreciate what Lucas’ qualities are and I believe if he plays on Sunday they’ll be put to good use. But by the same token if we were to play another full season with him partnering Mascherano as per this year the likelihood is that they’ll have 1 assist and 1 goal between them again. So thats the choice in my opinion go for gold with Aquilani partnering Masch or stick with the tried and trusted reliable squadie. Which in all honesty should be his role if we’re to kick on imo. And lads theres nothing wrong with that. Every team has em and every team needs em. Worlds full of squad players. Thats why I used the Spackman example earlier. I thought that would simplify my point. Thats how I view Lucas; a solid reliable squad player who can do a job in one of the starters absence. Not shite. Not not good enough for Liverpool. A lad who can do a job when called upon and has done so but now its time to take his place on the bench as we play 8 must win games. Not 8 play not to lose games. 8 must win games. And the way to do that as we all know is, to score goals. Based on the evidence that I’ve seen, I know what my selection would be.
There may be more aspects to winning a football match than just picking your best players, but they pale in comparison.

Thehe is little doubt that Mashy/Lucas partnership is a defensive one and IMHO should only be used against the other top 4 teams and the tougher matches.

For most other matches Mashy plus Aquaman/Benny/Gerrard makes more sense. Agger at the back brinign the ball out is another attacking option against the busparkers.

I am still 100% behind Rafa but he is a conservative coach and often seems topick teams that will be less likely to concede but also pose less attacking threat.

From what I remember of last season, Rafa had a more conservative approach until March and only threw caution to the wind when we fell 10 points behind Manure and we finished the season in blistering form.

Oh for fucks sake.

Your “best 11″ is only the Big Names… IF those big names are on form.

Otherwise, your “best 11″ is the guys who are fit and on form.

Its all well and good saying a half-fit Torres and a half-fit SG can still win you a game in 1 minute…. coz there is no doubting that they have…
…but that simply ignores the number of times they both played half-fit and DIDN’T!
…thereby essentially reducing us to 10 men, or on a few ocasions, even 9, over the course of 90 minutes played.
…coz there is also no doubting that in this desperate season, we have seen that too!

…and just who was it picking up the slack in those games?

Admittedly, Aquilani looked fuckin ACE on a stick against Portsmouth, but as some said about the result, it was fuckin Portsmouth…
… that game aside… in his previous outings, a few flashes here and there aside, Aqua’s hardly been a world beater…
…to the point where half the people in here were questioning his signing.
…Now he’s the man that will single handedly save our season?
…Coz he had a blinder against the BOTTOM-of-the-league midfield and defense?

There is absolutely no gaurantee that Aquilani will play as well against any of our remaining adversaries, as he did against Portsmouth.

Whereas Lucas, whether you like him or not, HAS been one of our most consistent players this season… and that’s not even arguable, he simply has been.

If this was Lucas’ first season at Anfield, Rafa would be getting praised for unearthing a gem.
But because there are those who already made their mind up about the lad last season… no concession is made that the lad has both improved leaps and bounds, AND been instrumental in keeping us ticking over (in the absense of those some would now instantly replace him with.)

Dig, you use assists and goalscoring stats to suggest Aqua is the better option.
…But becauuse its not quantifiable, you conveniently ignore the number of attacks Lucas has broken up, which could have led to conceding a goal…
It is far from inconcieveable that… during a time when we have had our shakiest defense behind the lad… we may well have lost games by a more embarrasing scoreline than 0-1, or perhaps lost games we drew…
…had Lucas not been sitting in front of the back 4, doing his job effectively
… unlike Masch in the first third of the season… (and particularly the last 10 minutes, v. Portsmouth leading to the 1 goal they conceded I might add.)

I can’t prove Lucas has kept the score respectable with his much maligned defensive work, any more than you can prove we would have turned those scores around with Aquilani in his place.
but we do know which player has been fitter and more in form over the course of the season.
(you know, bogus claims of stomach bugs by Rafa aside.)

Aquilani may well take Lucas’ spot from him next season.
But he should TAKE it from him, on merit, not simply have it handed to him.

His Portsmouth perfromance makes a great case for that, and we’ve seen a few glimmers of supportive evidence.
But Aqua will need to repeat that performance against better and tighter defenses (and on a more consistent basis) before its his to lose.

Aitch, dunno what more I can say to you. Read my post again. Then read yours. I cant simplify it anymore for ya mate. Who’s maligning Lucas’ defensive work? Who’s ignoring the attacks he’s broken up? Who’s guranteeing that Aquilani will save our season? Suggesting we’ve a better chance with him in the line-up, sure. Whats wrong with that? What is it about that concept that triggers such petulant defensiveness? Oh for fuck sake? Oh for fuck sake indeed. Its just my opinion Aitch and it aint earth shattering.

Madrid, 20th March 1984

A star is born.

Fernando Torres is 26 today.

Scoring the winner at Old Trafford tomorrow would have to be the perfect way to celebrate.

Part of this argument centres around the old footballing philosophy debate. Rafa is criticised for being a defensive, conservative coach. He plays two defensive midfielders so he’s negative.

We saw last season (I know – last season – sigh) how defensive that system can be. More goals and more points than most other years.

Rafa wants to use wingbacks in most games. They are an extra attacking force. They will get you goals or assists. It’s why we paid so much for Johnson. And if you look at how Johnson started we can all see that in theory it worked – I can’t remember exactly, but it felt like Johnson got a couple of goals in the first few games and I for one was starting to cream myself about the season to come. It’s also why Degen seemed like a good idea at the time. A Swiss international who loved to bomb forward and attack.

Injuries to both these players put paid to that…

If the full-back/wingbacks sit back or are forced back then it’s a defensive system. But the idea that all elements of the team (even Carra and Pepe) are comfortable in attack but can work hard and defend when they need to is a good one. That was Rafa’s Valencia when we met them and they blew us away.

For years my wife has said that what we really need is a team of eleven strikers (or maybe ten and a goalie) and can’t understand why bother with defense; just get the best strikers you can and score more than they do. Sometimes the arguments on these internet forums sound just like her idea.
That’s all theory so far.

Key players have been injured or out of form.

Key players – no scratch that – most players – have forgotten how to pass to a red shirt…and Rafa is the one left looking like a gimp and hung out for the press and media to slaughter. (And let’s not forget the Liverpool supporters who swallow the media bait hook, line and sinker). The season has been a nightmare and I want to wake up…It’s September 2010 and we all have Hope in Our Hearts. Pinch.

So. Who to choose? Aquilani or Lucas? Both have had MotM type performances this season. Both have so much attacking capability. Aquilani now has a goal. Lucas could/should have had several (if only Lucas’ head wasn’t shaped like a fifty-pence piece, eh FS!).

I’m gonna leave this one for the Liverpool Manager to decide.

Digger,
classic “at least Rafa is learning” almost as funny as Bert saying “he thinks he’s the boss”.

It’s interesting to hear different arguments on which players Rafa should pick, such as Aquilani vs Lucas, based on performances against Pompey and Lille respectively.

Let’s not forget we also have Benayoun (based on last season and this early season form), Kuyt (good work rate plus scoring important goals), Maxi (pretty good for debut season so far) and even Babbel (based on encouraging performances in the last few games).

With the four players above plus Mascherano, Lucas and Aquilani, we now have 7 players (should have been 8, sigh…) competing for 4 places to start alongside Torres and Gerrard in midfield and attack.

Surely some fans will not be pleased with Rafa’s selection, whichever 4 he chooses in games.

Like what Rafa has said, it’s a good problem to have many good players available for selection, a luxury we do not have all season until now.

Digger,

I think you’ve merely stated your opinion on your player preferences, and I’m glad you’ve congratulated the team on a good performance even though the team selected isn’t your preferred one.

I’m just glad I don’t have to make the hard decisions on who to include based on form, fitness, potential and performances.

So let’s band together as supporters, and hopefully enjoy a good run of games until the end of the season, starting with the Mancs tomorrow.

Well said Axchoice

good call ax. i would love us to go there play attacking football and win but that does not happen ever the only way to win at the castle greyskull is to keep it tight and catch them on the break which we have every chance of doing again but as usual its gonna be hard too watch like some car crash you cant help but look at.

If we dont improve our attacking play away from home we can forget 4th place. Lucas and Masch midfield combination isn’t going to be enough for us to win all of our remaining away games in my opinion. Unless of course Gerrard finds some form.

When we play Birmingham away on 4th April we could be 7 points behind Spurs with 6 games remaining. If I am picking that side I am going with Aquilani, Mash and Gerrard in midfield. Next 2 away games after that is Burnley and Hull. Aquilani, Mash and Gerrard in both games please.

As for our away game tomorrow I would bet money that Lucas, Kuyt and Maxi will be starting.

I wouldn’t be too worried about Spurs just yet. They have a real tricky fixture list the upcoming month and a half with Arsenal and the Chavs at home followed by both Manc teams away. Can’t see them coming away with more than 2-4 points from these games, which gives us a great chance to overthrow them no matter what the result will be at Old Toilet tomorrow.

Man City also have some tricky games to play before the end of the season and I would still regard them as our main opponents for fourth place. I think it will all depend on our away form if we make it or not, as Rafa has pointed out.

To be perfectly honest, I think the game tomorrow will prove too difficult for us at the moment. There are three main reasons for this. One, Wayne Rooney, who no defense in the world can handle the way he’s been performing this season. I fear he will be too much to handle for Carra in particular. Two, the mancs will he well-rested having had seven full days to recover from their last game, whilst Liverpool have already gone through two games this week. For example, will Torres really be able to perform at the same level as the previous two games, having of course both gained in confidence and match fitness but also lost a lot of energy? Three, the mancs will be doing their utmost to secure a victory after three straight defeats. This could however work in our favour with their players feeling they must win the game.

To win yet another game against them would be fantastic, but I’d really settle for a draw tomorrow and wouldn’t be devastated by a narrow defeat. Let’s just see my expectations have changed a bit since the season began.

Sachem,
i dont think for one minute that tomorrow’s game is to difficult for us also some great motivation for the boy’s as the tramp reckons we punched above our weight last season and he says he is being proved right given our performances this season, implying that the squad as a whole are not good enough if that does’nt gee the lads up nothing will, he also seems to forget that they have been beaten 6 times this season themselves so you could say they punched above their weight also, i was going to say i’d be happy with a 1-1 draw but i think if we score they’ll shit a brick and the old collywobbles could set in so 2-1 for the boys tomorrow.
Lurgan watched the dvd of FIFTEEN MINUTES etc about 2 weeks ago and pissed myself laughing especially the alehouse The Bitters Arms with the little kid in an everton kit all he said was “RED SHITE” honestly i was rolling off the sette, and at the final whistle when all the bitters where leaving the pub spewing their hearts up, and best of all RAT BOY brilliant.
come on you mighty Redmen.
YNWA.

It will be a day for positive thinking for LFC today. If we have beaten them in the last 3 meetings then we can beat them again today – That is the message we must take into this game.

Have no fear and believe in yourselves. United are shit scared of Fernando Torrres, so let’s make that pay’s off again.

Man.U 0 Liverpool 1

Kyriagos to start today?

Today’s match is perfect timing for us and I honestly think we can get a good result. Masch in front of the back four is crucial to take care of Rooney and no matter the midfield, Lucas or Aquilani I think we will more than hold our own against them.

For me the most important aspect of the game is which Gerrard shows up. Torres will give his all and given half a chance will bury it. The rest of the side is very solid and I expect Johnson to have a big game in tandem with Kuyt.

It will be very interesting to see who he plays on the left to help Insua, Maxi, Benny or Babel. A part of me would like to see Babel running at Nipple but I expect to see him held back for the last 30 minutes while we keep it tighter, the same with Aquilani. Rafa might surprise us and start with Aquilani (having been sick more unlikely ) with Benny on the left and really attack them and put them under pressure. However it is their home game so he might keep it tight for the first 60 minutes and see how things develop.

They will push forward which will suite us if Gerrard can free Torres on the break. I fancy Torres one on one against Vidic.

Come on you Reds

3:30 hours to go….
Its almost like butterflies are playing “kabaddi” in my stomach. Whatever form we are in it doesn’t matter. After beating Real Madrid last year I didn’t expect us to go to Old Trafford and beat them 4-1 and I can recollect still having the same feeling. We are much worse this year but the feeling is still the same . All I will say form goes out of the window play with your hearts up the sleeve and show the fight.

2-1

I switched off my TV…
Regardless of what we got instead of a win, I think we can kiss 4th goodbye… and focus on Benfica instead, in the Europa league.

Not that I feel pessimistic, but can’t help it really.

Since I turned off my TV in the 60th minute after they scored, hope that tomorrow when i wake up, it could be a win for us.

Cheers.!

Why can’t we get a decent referee?! Webb’ed again

@Bulgar

We got Webbed again. That was not a penalty. That was not.

4th looks difficult now. ManCity are not Aston Villa..they will not throw it away. I expect Tottenham to drop points in the coming few weeks..but ManCity seems to have the personnel who can handle this kind of pressure.

I am praying for some billionaire somewhere in this beautiful world to come and rescue us..

We need to hold out key players. Torres was unlucky to miss tht chance but overall he was terrific. A great game for Maxi. Cant really blame Rafa today.

I thought we were a bit unlucky to lose at old toilet. The penalty decision looked a bit dodgy to me but what can one expect at old taoilet? The 2nd goal was very disappointing from a defensive perspective.

Insua was left unsupported when he was up against Fletcher and Neville. Johnson allowed Park to get a free header. He then made a half-hearted attempt to clear the danger with his foot when he needed to put his head through the ball or a least make it difficult for Park to get a clean header.

We have to rely on other teams to do us a favour now to stand any chance of finishing 4th.

I thought we were a bit unlucky to lose at old toilet. The penalty decision looked a bit dodgy to me but what can one expect at old taoilet? The 2nd goal was very disappointing from a defensive perspective.

Insua was left unsupported when he was up against Fletcher and Neville. Johnson allowed Park to get a free header. He then made a half-hearted attempt to clear the danger with his foot when he needed to put his head through the ball or a least make it difficult for Park to get a clean header.

We have to rely on other teams to do us a favour now to stand any chance of finishing 4th.

I tried to prepare myself for a result like this, but damn is it hard to endure those cheers and close-ups of fungusface. To be honest I thought the Mancs deserved to win this one. I’m convinced we would have grabbed at least a point had our players been on the same fitness level as our opponents. You could see Torres understandably had nothing left in the tank in second half. There’s no way he would have missed that great chance had it occurred in the first half. Unfortunate it is and it sure didn’t get any better by listening to Andy Gray going on about all kinds of anti-Rafa nonsense the entire game. The man is a bloody disgrace.

Unlike most people, I don’t think the run for 4th is over for us, not in the slightest. As I’ve said before, I’m convinced Spurs and Man City will drop a number of points before the end of the season, facing both one another and the current top 3 teams.

The important thing is that Liverpool grab as many points as possible. As I see it, we will need to win 6 out of 7 remaining games, which means in theory we can afford to draw either away against Birmingham or at home against the Chavs. Should we fail to do so, well… the players shouldn’t be thinking about that. “Failure is not an option” is all they should think, and I’m sure Rafa will see to it that they do.

The main thing in the aquailani or lucas debate is we know we will not dominate most games with lucas in the team.

We can all sit here and talk about the attributes of lucas but they won’t win us shit in the long term.

He is a very good squad player and thats it.He serves a purpose and maybe will become our main defensive midfielder in the future.

But while masch is here his arse should be picking up splinters on the bench.
YNWA

My own opinion is we lacked a bit of ambition perhaps or something in the second half. I can understand that the team was set up to contain, which it did with no great difficulty (the second goal apart). But we never looked likely, until the raft of late substitutions, to force a goal until it was too late.
I know games have ebbs and flows in them and I imagine if we had held the lead for some time instead of ? 5 minutes ? then we could have really taken them. But, as ever this season, we didn’t do what we needed to do and gave away a penno and the initiative to United who basically controlled possession and tempo from there on in until the last 10 minutes.
It (IMHO) did not come down to Webb, the foul was initiated outside the box, fair enough but there was still contact when he went down, as he was bound to do, in the box. Look it was not necessary, feck it it wasn’t even a decent foul. Mascher gave Webb the opportunity and what do you think he was going to do at the Old Toilet? Not Webb’s fault but Mascher’s. And he was by the same logic, lucky to have stayed on the field. He gave Webb the chance. Stupid.
I thought Nando was ompletely isolated second half and left chasing punts and clearances with the 2 Muppets in close attendance. No wonder he was knackered.
Again just my opinion from watching Gerrard all season and of late. He does not look fit to me, he has lost pace and aceleration (and touch at times). We have all been critical of him and his attitude (I have) but maybe he just is not fit.
That for me was probably crucial in this game. There were not enough outlets for the defense and midfield. The fullbacks were held back by the Utd wingers, Maxi and kuyt spent a lot of time going back to help and there was no-one besides Torres showing for the ball. Stevie was just not in it enough (albeit assisting in the goal). Case in point being the goal which came from Utd losing the ball in their own half.
We did look a whole lot better with Babel and Aquaman (as did Stevie actually) but the dynamic of the game had changed then and Manure were doing a Liverpool and playing on the break while giving us the ball and the park.
One query of Rafa, why did he wait so long to change after Manure scored ? Babel made a difference ( = pace vs Neville ).

Finally, even after a rather disappointing second half we should have scored right at the death. We would have last year. Torres ????? How ???? and then Benny a header from 4 yards, limp. Sums up our season. Reina saves the spotter and the ball drops kindly to Rooney and then we miss the two best chances of the entire game in the last minute. It would make you cry.

Didnt think we played too badly. Just lacked cutting edge and movement in the final third.

Thought Stevie had a off day again. One time he cracked the shites for players not moving then he gave the ball away twice in a row.

Rafamuffin are you serious about Lucas?
Cmon mate
Firstly I would have dragged Masch instead of Lucas. Why do you say that with Aqua we would be a better team? Has he shown that much that would suggest this? Was he even fit enough to play today. When he came on the 20min passed him by, he got a few touches but that was it.

I personaly do not believe Babel or Aqua made a significant impact.

On to the game itself. Had we held out our lead for longer, it would have been alot of pressure on united. Since we gave it back within a matter of minutes this did not occur.

I think it was a peno, stupid one if that. Mascher should have been goalside anyway.

Webb’s peno decision was okay, but it was the treatment of nando that wasnt. One example. Nando was waiting to receive the ball, and rio went in from behind with his forearms into nando’s head, yet webb gave rio the free. The lad gets no protection at all. I dont think we got one free kick in and around the box.

We lacked ambition today – Utd are vulnerable and we could see that once we brought on Babel, Aquilani and Benny. Sure Rafa wanted to keep it tight but a midfield of Mascherano, Lucas and Kuyt just ain’t gonna keep the ball. Teams that have beaten Utd this year have gone at them.

Anyway both goals came from our left hand side. Insua has had a torrid year and the lad needs a rest. A new left back in the summer (once we get our new sugar Daddy ) will be a big priority

Losing at Old Trafford is no disgrace and we were OK today and on another occasion we may have sneaked a draw or even a win. But lets make no bones about – Utd won today and didnt even need to get out of second gear

I can take losing at OT (as much as they sicken me) but what isn’t acceptable is whats gone before – the 9 defeats and countless draws. It’ll take a miracle to get 4th now. My feeling is we’ll do well to get 6th

Arthur,

It’s already a very sad season, and I agree with you mostly in your post.

I’m sad now, and fear Rafa will be sacked at or near the end of the season, which may trigger our decline like what FS has said many times before, especially with the muppet show that’s going on at our beloved club.

Can’t agree Arthur. That midfield did ok against manure the three games previous we played against them, resulting in I think 3 wins if I’m not mistaken.

It wasn’t a peno but then again monster could have gone. Pepe saved but the devil looks after his own.

Don’t hold your breath for our new sugar daddy. Insua is still young and is a good player, he will come good. I agree we need back up in that position, however, I don’t see how we will get it.

I would love David Villa but it’s pie in the sky mate.

Bottom line is against the mancs some you some you lose. What I can’t take is the thought of them winning the prem again, I think it will do me in. There is so much bitterness in my blood towards them that I wouldn’t survive.

i’ll flip out if we see anymore defensive line-ups from now till the end of the season. yesterday we only came to life when the attacking players came on. sort it out rafa.

My plea to Rafa just like the title of Gerry’s blog. “Play It Again, Rafa”….the same starting line-up like we played Pompey the other night from now on.

this is a one time knee-jerk reaction from me..i just want to slap rafa last night..but still hoping u could turn our season around and get the 4th place n still lead us nx season. thank you in advance.

After Torres’ goal we didn’t have a shot on goal until the 86th minute. That summed up our lack of ambition and inability to keep the ball in the 2nd half. Van Dar Sar had fuck all to do. I could have been in goal for the mancs and it would have made no difference to the outcome. We did exactly what FS and a few others accuse other teams of doing at Old Trafford. The mancs are there for the taking and we stop attacking them and sit back seemingly trying to get a point or at best try to nick a winner on the counter. Trouble with that tactic is when you go a goal behind it’s difficult to change the momentum. I thought Rafa took too long to change things. Babel and Aquilani should have come on sooner. I thought Gerrard was poor again. Masch just gave away fouls all afternoon and the penalty was his fault not Webb’s. Our best performers were Pepe, Agger and Torres.

We need snookers now if we are to get 4th place. Villa and City have 2 games in hand over us meaning they can lose 2 games, we win all ours and still it’s not in our hands. I fear the defeat at Wigan will prove very costly.

LB – Wigan, Hull, Stoke, Wolves results will all prove costly. As I said previously, we were clearly hoping to sneak something yesterday, losing to Utd is not a huge issue. It’s been the gutless, ballsless capitultions to the likes of Wigan and Portsmouth (to name but a few) when Rafa played 1 up front, Macsh AND Lucas in the middle of the park et al, that will mean we’ll be lucky to make Europa next season. That is in-exusable and no amount of injuries, beach balls and shitty owners can explain that away.

As I mentioned in the past if you go out HOPING to sneak wins- you’ll be LUCKY to get ANYTHING. Belief is a huge thing in sport and I feel that sometimes Raf doesn’t believe that the team he sends out can just go and beat the opposition. When we attacked the Mancs (when it was far far too late) we looked a different team – pace, aggression and purpose. Until then it was a case of “well you can have the ball – see if you can score, cos we’re not bothered”

We’ve just allowed Utd to put one hand on the trophy – # 19 and 4 in-a-row (ooh God)

Not much to add lads. LB’s post pretty much covers everything. Best team won, no complaints.

LB and Arthur, I agree with you both entirely. The Mancs WERE there for the taking yesterday, and we were too negative to take advantage of it.

As soon as we went a goal up, we sat back and handed them the initiative. In a strange way, going in front hindered us.

We should have gone for the second goal straight away, while they were still reeling. We are too negative this season. Fourth place? It looks a tall order now.

LB, if you were in goal for the Mancs yesterday, do you reckon you would have saved Torres’ header? (lol!)

completely agree. the way to beat utd is to attack them. teams who’ve done that this season have made them look pretty shaky. we made them look comfortable. that’s purely down to our lack of ambition and creativity, not their defensive performance. rafa has a case for starting the game as he did and see how it went, but as usual he failed to influence the game from the bench when it started to get away from us.

i’d have pulled masch at half time and chucked aqua on, mainly because masch on a yellow is only half a masch (a msh). if he can’t throw himself into tackles he looks a bit redundant. knew there was no way though. a sub before 65mins never happens, no matter what the situation. did you see rafa look at his watch after the goal, wait 10 minutes, then make the changes….?

i don’t blame rafa for the loss because it’s a tough place to play and win, but i’d love to see him do something interesting from the bench at least once. we did nothing whatsoever in the second half, and late changes look and feel like desperate measures rather than calm, considered tactical switches.

sick of feeling like this. what a fuckin season ay.

I’m not sure it’s a lack of ambition, I think it’s called tatics. sometimes it just doesn’t come off.

Arthur 1 up front? You’re a bit behind the times mate. All the top teams play 1 up front. Barca, Chavs, the mancs. This isn’t the Stanley Mathews era. We just allowed Utd to put one hand on the trophy? ???? that’s right we let them win. So did the chav’s by drawing, that’s right everybody wants manure to win. see if you can score cos we’re not bothered? ???? Arthur sometimes you sound like a little girl having a hissy fit

LB: The penalty was Webb’s fault mate simple as. Monster fouled him outside the box and the rules say that’s a free kick. I’m not saying Webb was to blame for the result but he got that decision wrong and that’s his job.

Saying that the mancs scored 2 goals we scored 1 that’s the name of the game.

Sambo: You need to check your stats mate. As usual Rafa failed to change things from the bench. ??? I think you’ll find Rafa is the number one manager to affect games with his subs. According the stats man mr Tomkins.

Hissy fit Kenny? ah ok….Utd don’t always play one up front – they regularly play Berbatov alongside Rooney. To play one up front in this modern era (thanks for pointing that out for me) you need two wide players with pace either side of the lone striker – essentially meaning that you’re playing with 3 up front at times. Examples please I hear you cry:

Chelsea (2004-2006): Drogba with Duff and Robben either side – brilliant

Utd (2008-2009) Ronaldo, with Rooney and Tevez inter-changing – devastating

Utd (this season) Rooney with Nani and Valencia not as good as above but you get my point

Barcelona: Ibrahimavic (Eto’o) with Messi and Henry either side – best side in Europe.

and LFC: Torres (clearly world class) with Maxi and Kuyt either side of him. Combined top speed of 1 sick asthmatic turtle

Anyway you wanna slag me and delude yourself that’s grand. You’re right though – it is called tactics – or othersise known as tactics that LACK AMBITION.

The penalty was completely avoidable. Yeah the original foul was committed outside the box but a terrible header from Insua plus a ridiculous, red card risking tug by Mascherano meant we gave the ref the chance to award them the penalty. School boy defending.

Perhaps you don’t get my style of writing Kenny but I cleary am aware we didn’t “let Man U win” but because of our “tactics” we essentially “allowed” Utd to own the ball in the second half. Surely if you’re a manager you need to proactively change things a lot quicker than Rafa did (does)???

We’re in this position this season because of our overly cautious approach. Plain and simple.

Here’s a little poll that I hope our guys here take part. I’m so dismayed with this season that I’m thinking if stupid things like this. Which would you choose?

a) Scums beating or drawing City so that we get 4th
b) City beating scums so that scums lose the title but also means we lose out on 4th

Axechoice, I’d go for B) all day long!

No one would be too suprised if we didn’t get fourth now (if we do it’s a bonus) but the thought of the Mancs winning it 4 times in a row and overtaking our total would be too much too bear.

Axchoice

Yhat’s not a fair question.. Can I have a 3droption please? Lol. Having said that, I will have to go for option b.

Should be “that”

“3rd option” Gerry we need an edit button for the blog.

I am quite surprised to read the comments here. This happens to be one of the very few places where Rafa is criticized come what may. At any cost, we hardly realize that there is a lot to improve in our attacking instincts.

This a forum where people like FS,Aitch kept on supporting Rafa. They are learned and senior football fans aint it? I decided to give in to their logic and accepted that Rafa perhaps is the best man we can have as our manager. I stick to that opinion even now and thereby support what they have said.

All big games, Rafa has set up his team like that. Last season our 4-1 win at OT was not that different. Was it? We played a similar kind of game and destroyed them with our superb counter attacking game. What is it that makes us think we adopted the wrong tactics?

My point is simple. If we agree that Rafa is the best man for the LFC job(Which i think he is at this moment.SAF was scared to death and hence at home they played such a defensive game) then we have to accept his style.

As a person who loves to watch football, i will always like Liverpool to be like the present Barcelona.Going by that thinking, i will want Rafa out and Pep Gaurdiola in !!

I do however feel that with the approach Rafa has taken in away games, it always comes to restricting the opponents rather than outscoring them. I have always believed that Goals win you matches. You can defend well for 89 minutes but one mistake can cost you the game.

But as i said, until Rafa is here i would expect us to play like this. I have got no problem with it. Do you?

Arthur I don’t need examples mate. I wasn’t the one talking about ’1′ up front as if it was negative. I think you’ll find those examples you quoted all have 1 striker as the spearhead.

I’m not happy with how this season has gone at all, it’s been like a dagger to the heart but saying things like we need a new left back that’s priority (when we get our new sugar daddy) well we all know what we want. Anyone of us could with a fortune to spend could say I want him and I want this etc. Saying/identifying what we want is the easy part, I want David Villa well we haven’t got the money so what do we do? we have to try and get the next ‘David Villa’ when he’s young and costs peanuts. We might have the next David Villa but we won’t know for a few years will we?

I had a closer look at what you said Arthur. 3 up front at all times? I don’t want to pick on you mate but I think you’ll find Roony plays just behind Berba a bit like Gerrard off Torres. The chavs were 4 3 3 except when defending when it became 4 5 1

It surprises me that after three straight victories against the scum, two of which were against a better side than the one we faced yesterday, some people are still overly critical of Rafa not coming out on the winning end the 4th time. You just can’t expect our players to come at a side like that having already gone through 2 full games the same week. Rafa had to be a little more cautious in his tactics yesterday, because you can bet your ass that Rooney otherwise would have made us pay big time on the counter. No matter how dreadful I felt right after the game, in perspective I just don’t think we could have asked a lot more from the players when the equalizer came so early on.

If anything, it’s not yesterday’s performance or result that will lose us 4th place. It’s the dreadful displays against sides like Pompey before Christmas, Wigan just recently and a few others. Of course, some would put all the blame on Rafa for these defeats (probably the same people who fail to give the manager any credit whatever). That’s to simplistic in my opinion, but surely he has to take some of the blame, and I’m sure he would also agree with that if you asked him. No matter what’s your take on this, those are the results and performances that needs to be highlighted at the end of the season. What the hell went wrong there? Even taking all the beachballs, injuries and aggravating circumstances we’d truthfully had to deal with into account, there are still some performances this season I’ve found unacceptable. Yesterday’s was not one of them, however.

Fair point Kenny – but I suppose what I’m trying to get at is that with our current personnel this season I don’t think 4-5-1/ 4-3-3 (or however we want to phrase it) is always the best formation – and this has been born out by the number of piss poor performances against teams like Wolves, Stoke et al where our lack of pace on the wings played right into their hands – leaving Torres (or usually NGog) completely isolated

Steve, I would have saved Benayoun’s header.

Bayo had to laugh at that, the edit function is read it before you pist your comment :]
Arthur while Insua will make mistakes as he’s young and still learning, whats the excuse for the most experienced referee in England. Fletcher has to be dragged out of a fight but no card? Nipple’s Karate kick on Maxi no card? and the “pen” was a freekick.Those mistakes cost us more than Insua.
YNWA

“Insua is young and learning” – that may well be the case Rome, but we can’t afford to have him as our main left back. He’s a huge weak link – no pace and poor decision making. I’m very sceptical that he’ll become a top class defender. Warnock is a far better left back…oh right yeah..we got rid of him…oh well…

As far from winning the title as Souness or Evans were.Will Rafa be able to improve upon the 30 and 28 points that Souey and Ged finished behind the title winners in their final seasons as manager?.The Reds bench yesterday cost the same as the Mancs!.10 away defeats this season and unable to score away in their last 6 prem games, a woeful record V the big 3 this season, Rafa is out of options.
Expect the Mancs to win the title with 90 points.The Reds are closer to Sunderland than the Mancs in terms of points and considering Rafa has outspent Wenger and Taggart last summer by so much, it’s time to give the job to anyone who could do better-Hodgson or Mcleish.

A very heavy hearted day and watching Torres miss the sitter still pains my heart. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. we could have started with Babel or Benayoun or Aquilani, but lets not forget it was Kuyt who laid the assist for the goal. could have done enuf with Riera maybe but the monger chose the wrong time to mouth off. And then there is United’s 12fth man, Howard Webb. Pretty Unlucky, mostly poor compusure in attack. one thing is for sure, the lad Babel is improving as can be seen from the late moments and it is vital he gets the nod for his performance. Here’s hoping we restore pride , and who knows a good run towards the end and a decent show in Europa , might bring the mood back.

Here’s my post ramblings, you might want to check this out .

http://bigfourza.wordpress.com/2010/03/22/united-vs-liverpool-post-match-ramblings/

Good blog there Zeppelin

But still think it’s too easy to blame Webb – as big a knob as he is.

No I don’t blame Webb entirely for the loss. But sometimes in big games, its the minute details that matter. For example take our first loss to Arsenal at Anfield. We were doing good until then, looking to gain confidence after victory against the blueshite. We played good football for one half and for a good team like Arsenal, that should have been enough. But we lost and this led to losing confidence and losing the plot. Confidence just doesn’t come out of some pep talk always, it matters to go and win some worthy matches and when we didn’t have that, it was only natural to leak those 90th minute goals and corners when we were defending nervously. You could see how upset Torres was after the penalty decision and Torres isn’t the same person when he gets frustrated, which clearly reflected on his misses.

Not trying to absolve the team of the blame. We should have done more.

I was more annoyed with Mashy for the tug on Valencia than I was with Webb. That was crazy defending. Torres was equally disgusted.

As I said on a post here late last week, Rafa is a cautious defensive minded manager. Looking at our midfield compared to the bench was telling, Kuyt, Maxi, Mashy & Lucas vs Babel, Benny and Aquaman.

Ok I would not expect Rafa to start all 3 I listed on the bench but picking the 4 midfielders he did was based on their defending more than their attacking ability. Babel, Benny and Aquaman would all have brought more attacking threat but are not as strong defensively. Pickign the team we did comes with a price. 2 efforts on goal in 90 minutes.

It looks like we won’t finish 4th and it seems like that may signal the end of Rafa’s time.

I think we should stick with Rafa for one more season. Another part of me thinks, he’s had 6 seasons to get it right.

Lots of interesting comments in this blog.
And far less wrist-slitting than I would have expected.

Here’s my take for what its worth.

Nothing wrong with the line-up whatsoever.
Dream start with the early goal, heaped ALL the pressure on Scum.
As for tactics, well they’re simple really and pretty much chizeled in stone in every coaching manual!
In a situation like that, you weather the following 10 minutes. You keep it tight and don’t concede.

Completely daft foul by Masch… and maybe it was just outside the box… slow-mo replays show that… but at game speed, with a split-second to make the decision, I’m not surprised either the ref or the linesman gave the pen. (if the other way, we’d have been demanding it, so…)

My problem was 2-fold…
1st… what the fuck was Masch doing? He should have been in front of Valencia, not behind him. (did anyone notice that Insua was actually marking Maxi’s man, when he made the dodgy header?)
2nd… where the fuck was Agger? Valencia is running through the middle at you, and you chose to run over to cover Insua?

It was collective poor defending and the devil wanted his pound of flesh… as evidenced by the fact that Pepe saved the fucker, only for it to fall right back to Rooney!

What bothered me was not Webb’s decision.
What bothered me was not the poor defending that conceded the pen.
(…errr… well okay that’s not true, it bothered me a LOT.)

What bothered me was the way everyone… and I mean EVERYONE’s shoulders dropped… not when Rooney scored the rebound, but the second the pen was awarded!

I was shocked by the body language… as though that was it… game over… we’ve lost.

The fact that Pepe saved the pen, but Rooney scored the rebound, seemed to compund things too. It looked as though they all collectively gave up at that moment… with 70+ minutes left to play?????
And the score at 1-1.

And it wasn’t as though they’d really threatened us up to that point!

There was a moment shortly after that, where valencia ran at Insua. He stripped the ball from him and set off with it. He got to the half-way line and looked up…
…pretty much everyone bar Torres and 3 Scum defenders was behind him… and no one was making any effort to break with him!

Now you can blame Rafa and his defensive tactics all you want, but what is inescapable and inexcusable, is that in the heat of the moment… with a pleyer breaking with the ball… any defensive instructions you have been sent on field with, go right out the fuckin window … and you BREAK!

…Just as Insua did (and this isn’t the first example of this.)

The only 2 players on the field yesterday who looked like they really wanted to win, were Rooney and Park.
Had we really got at Scum, we’d have stood a chance, but we just looked like we gave up after the penalty.

One last thing….
its something Arthur said in @117
And honestly Arthurm I’m not having a pop… but its an important point…

“Belief is a huge thing in sport and I feel that sometimes Raf doesn’t believe that the team he sends out can just go and beat the opposition.”

I understand why there are a fair few in here who hold this opinion… after all, we beat Portsmouth comfortably. We done likewise to others. For the most part these same players we the 4-1′s of last season against Scum and Real Madrid.
…But again, I think exactly the opposite is true….
…WHAT about the overall, collective perfromances this season, suggests that Rafa should in any way, shape, or form trust these fuckers?

Do they not continually and repeatedly let him (just as they do us) down?

I mean look at how often this season someone has typed “that was the worst Liverpool performance I’ve ever seen” or “completely gutless perfromance by the reds” or the like.

I don’t think Rafa does believe that the team he sends out can “just go and beat the opposition.”

I don’t believe the players believe that they can “just go and beat the opposition.”

And I KNOW that many in here no longer believe that the team can “just go and beat the opposition.”

But that’s NOT because they are shite. Its the situation we find ourselves in. Its a complex situation to which there are no simple answers or solutions.

I still back Rafa. Not blindly or because I have my head in the sand. (And I understand the reasons why people don’t.) But I still believe this season is an abheration, and not the norm.
I firmly expect normal service to be resumed next season.

I still back most of these players. despite their apparent lack of effort, belief, standard level of performance at many times this season. I think we’ve seen how high they can climb and how low they can sink and believe in their ability to more regularly achieve the heights… this seasons evidence not withstanding.

In the same way that we have repeatedly held a gun to our feet on the field this seaosn, and fired off a round…
I think to part ways with Rafa at this juncture, for a lot of reasons, both on and off the field, would be to effectively put a gun to LFC’s foot and pull the trigger.

I know you weren’t having a pop at me Aitch – good post from yourself But i think we’ll have to agree to disagree on this one as I unfortunately believe Rafa can no longer motivate and make this squad believe anymore

@Aitch :

A bit harsh, but some of your points are indeed true. For me it was disappointing to see Carra push Masch off the way the moment the pen was awarded. Gerrard stooped a little bit, Masch shouldn’t have defended the way he did, and most of all Insua should have been fuckin there. The team were obviously stunned to go back just minutes after Torres scored. Again Confidence is the key here. Had we been in terrific form, we would have gone for the second goal, but at our present state the moment we scored the early goal the equaliser was always coming.

RZ
For my money SG didn’t just stop… he was cack for the 90.

And carra’s push… pretty much says it all for me. Is he the only one that gives a fuck?

I didn’t want to get into player ratings, coz we all have a faves and scapegoats, but for my money, the only decent performers out there on the day were Carra, Lucas and Insua.

The moment when Insua robbed Valencia and set off to the halfway line, spoke volumes to me. SG was actually on the halfway line, when Insua won the ball, and instead of racing to the left corner, he dropped back behind him. Kuyt stayed put, Maxi stayed put… Torres was inching Vidic and Rio back, and the only other player moving was Lucas, who twigged late and was really only jogging in support at that point 15 yards behind the play.
So Insua had to check and pass the ball back 10 yards.

Had we been in terrific form, we’d have done them 4-1 again.
But what is crazy is that Scum have been in terrific form and they looked a bit shell-shocked after our goal… but even after they got the equalizer, they still sat off us as though they were expecting what we gave them last time.
When it never came , they still didn’t even barrage us, really.
And even when they did eventually grow into controlling the game and got the 2nd… they sere still expecting us to get at them for the last 15 and backed off, but we just didn’t throw ourselves at them.

And while I would agree that Rafa should probably have made earlier subs (I would have in that situation) I still can’t fathom the lack of willingness from the playerson the field, to “have a go” at what was the most subdued Scum we’ve faced in years.

And Arthur, I completely understand why people hold that opinion. I really do.
I’m not suggesting it IS the wrong opinion. It may very well prove to be correct.
I do however think there are signs that point to the possibility of other reasons.
One thing is increasingly certain… we’ll find out one way or the other this summer!

We started the game yesterday with some purpose and when nando scored i felt we needed to keep it tight for ten minutes or so.
As for the penalty incident i agree with Aitch it was a silly mistake for mash to take a chance like that.He did start the foul outside but this is old trafford so i wasn`t one bit surprised webb gave the spotter.
Even at 1-1 we seemed comfortable without being too threatening ourselves.

They took the initiative second half and we seemed to let them have it.It was as the players were trying to protect what they had instead playing higher up the pitch.Reina didn`t have much to do mind but the mancs seemed to be getting most of their joy down our left side.Maxi was put in there for some protection for insua and therefore his offensive game suffered.Torres was left stranded second half with the gap between him and the rest of the team to big for them to feed him with any decent service.
They did retreat for the last fifteen minutes but we didn`t get at them enough.Rafa made the substitutons too late for them to make a real impact.
Torres had a golden oppertunity in the dying minutes but i cannot and will not critisise the lad he`s a gem and scored a fantastic goal to put us one up.
He sticks that chance and we`re having a different conversation entirely.

A fine line indeed..

I got the impression that SG is fed-up with Rafa’s tactics and it is affecting the whole team.
Am I wrong?

Hi Jack, funnily enough i was going to write something on that subject now. It also ties in with what Aitch very elequently put in 142 and also touches on Arthur 143.
One way or another it does not appear to be the case that the team is playing properly. (Another way of putting it could be “playing for Rafa”).
Now we all can see this from the outside, you can be damn full sure Rafa ses it from the inside.
So what does he do?
As I see it there are two possibilities for Gerrard & Co’s lack of form. Either it is the consequences of chronic injury (as so many of the squad has suffered) and it can be remedied by rest/remedial therapy of some sort/ a good pre-season etc. Perhaps there is some psychological thing (e.g the civil court case for Gerrard) that can also be remedied/resolved. In other words Rafa knows and understands the reasons why and is prepared to stand by the players or ….

The second situation arises. He sees what is going on and acts in the close season. What has Rafa got to lose? If he gets another year why should be burden himself with players who are not doing nor likely to do the business again for him (and themselves) and the team?
He may as well go for broke and ship them out. Now you tell me who would be at the top of the list ?
Rafa does not do Prima Donnas. Look back to Valencia. It’s his name, reputation, career and 5 years of 24/7 work gone into this project. My money is on a few surprises before next season.

You know the way it’s said to look for the positives in every situation.

What if we don’t make 4th spot as looks very likely. No ditraction of CL football.

We 6th at the moment and Villa have games in hand behind us. What if we don’t even get Europa League next season.

With none or less European football, do you think it might help us focus on number 19th, keep players fit etc. etc.

That’s an exciting thought.

Neilob: I see where you’re coming from but I think not qualifying AT ALL for any European competition would have potentially dire consequences for LFC – i.e. losing the likes of Torres and/or Gerrard. Now, as has been touched on in this blog before, would losing Gerrard be such a blow considering a) the money we’d get for him and b) how shite he’s been this season?

I for one, however would be upset to see him leave – I think (rightly or wrongly) he’s tired of whats going on in the Liverpool dressing room and he’s had enough of Rafa. Of course, I could be wrong but it’s just the impression I get. But I think he has 2/3 good years (possibly in a more withdrawn role)still ahead of him and I’d love to see him stay at the Pool.

As for potentially losing Torres…well it’d would be a greater disaster than losing Rush back in 1987 – pure and simple we’d struggle to replace him and I really do fear that not qualifying for CL next season might make him long for pastures new.

My hope though is that both Gerrard and Torres wait and see how:

a) the managerial situation plays itself out in the next few months

b)if new investment is brought in to the club and how much we can strengthen the the team/squad

I believe if neither a or b change in time for the new season, I think one or both will leave.

Now on the flip side – we’d probably get a shit load of money for them – 60 mill perhaps? maybe a bit less. So if Rafa (or if there was a new manager in place) was allowed spend that (who knows) well then perhaps we could still salvage something from next year.

My gut feeling is Torres will give us more season (unless of course RBS force us to sell off our main assets – then all bets are off). Can’t tell with Gerrard.

So in a long winded way – yeah having no European football would allow us to solely focus on the Premier league – but what good is that if all your best players have jumped ship?

Arthur
Insua he isnt our first choice LB he’s our only choice most of the season.
I reckon Insua is better than what Warnock was at 21 however he will have to work on his pace this summer which shouldnt be a problem.The technical side of things will come with age and experience and a very technical manager with a attention to detail.

Warnock played 67 games scoring 1 before been let go at profit so he got his chances.
A few years later he’s Englands 4th or 5 th choice LB so he isnt doing too bad for himself but he’s not world class and if it wasn’t for the fact that Rafa sold him you wouldn’t mention him as a possible replacement, unless its just another stick.
Nielob
The Europa cup was seen as a poison chalice by Fulham & Spurs fans because of all the extra games on sh*tty pitches. Missing all those extra games would definitely help in the quest for no 19 but i dont think our “supporters” will see it that way
Digger
Was it a pen ? should Fletcher & Nipple have walked.
YNWA

Arthur
Sell Torres and Gerrard for 60 Mill or maybe less, your not Rick Parry are you ?

It was inevitable that there would be a lot of ‘anti-Rafa’ posts after losing to the Mancs. However, there are also a few short memories here. We beat them the previous 3 games with pretty much the same line-up. The fact that the players (Stevie, Masch) are/were not in the same form for this game is something you cannot really blame the manager for. As for Webb, when I saw that he was in charge for the game, I was pretty happy. He did after all ref our game against Spurs, where most of the 50/50 calls went our way. I still believe he is the best ref in England, but maybe purple-nose had a chat to him before the game, maybe the Old Toilet atmosphere got to him? Whatever, but of course he definetly erred on the penalty, & not booking Fletcher & that absolute prick Nipple.
Where is that billionare sugar daay? Just heard on the news that Valencia have announced that they will be selling Villa & Valencia in the summer. It breaks my heart that we can’t even be a candidate in buying one or both of them.
For what it’s worth, Rafa has to be given another season. Let’s not forget his record at LFC – one (bad) swallow does not make a summer.
Oh, and Burger, McLeish? You are having a laugh aren’t you?

Well made it to England in time to watch the Sky Sports game, or should I call them the (SS), then then transformed me into the world of Super Sunday, the SS equivalent of mind numbing/brain stabilising.
.
Mash grapples with a looking for a penalty manc and getts called all sorts, while Ronney makes a two footed lunge, this called committment. He must be the luckiest scouse ever, lauded on TV, made out a champion, given the known FA world, while all the time being a dirty scummy bastard who sold his birthrights.
.
Now on to the game, I thought we tried but we’re just not good enough, niether in that frame is Man U, but they will probably win the title with their worst team in years. SG for me is either finished at the top level or saving himself for England, but he’s a shadow of last season and his performance against Man U was telling. maybe the lad just needs a new direction.
.
Overall I thought we did quite well, however Torres may score some crackers but he missed a sitter in the dying seconds. We should have jagged a 2~2 scoreline.
.
Anyway lucky enough to grab two tickets to the Sunderland game thanks to the Aussie Liverpool supporters club, thanks Matty. So myself and my 12 year old daughter will be there next Sunday, when we belt Sunderland and Torres scores 20.
.
See you later lads, chins up there still the best thing in Red since tomato soup.

@Aitch

The point which you have mentioned is indeed true. When Insua got the break why were the players not breaking forward? You might say that its the players who are to blame and they are letting Rafa down but i have a slightly different opinion to it.

According to me a lot depends upon how you are setting up your team prior to a match.

Manchester United were not exactly setting the pitch on fire. They were playing a defnesive game. They showed us the respect and were aware what Torres could do on a counter attack.

Having won that mental battle, it was time for Rafa to push on and assert the supremacy. But i am sure he wanted to keep it tight at the back. That was his priority. He was not too keen to be too adventurous. He will never give a Kuyt or Maxi the licencse to go forward and concentrate only on supporting Torres.

The midfielders,wingers in our team are more worried about defending rather than supporting Torres. This is not their choice. This is how Rafa sets up in all away matches.

We can go on blaming the players and i do agree that too many of them had underachieved but when it comes to attacking instincts, dominating the opponents,outscoring them, its the manager who should set things straight. Rafa to me is more worried about not loosing games like these.

Whatever, as i have mentioned in my earlier post..either we follow Rafa and support his tactics or we find a manager who has a different style. I am a LFC fan and that wont change irrespective of whatever happens.

Why Rome, how much would you think we’d get for them? Cos I’m telling ya if the bank comes looking for money – and it does come to having to sell them – other clubs would know that we HAVE to sell them and so they’d try and bleed us

Anyway hopefully this grueseome scenario will not occur

Arthur, to your thoughts about Stevie and nando leaving if there is neither a new manager / sugar daddy cash pile:
Well buddy I reckon there is no way Rafa goes unless he wants to (for the record I hopes he stays). Double no way there is going to be a sugar daddy or whatever/ whoever to bring us a barrel of cash.
So let’s see what happens.
Torres alone would bring 60Mill. The fact is too many clubs would want him and you have the super billionaires potentially bidding against each other.
It better not happen tho’…. I think it would have disasterous long term effects for the club (and potentially even more disasterous affects for our esteemed owners.)

Personally, i’d sell Gerrard, take the cash, buy Stephen Ireland, who based on last years form when he was playing consistently, is a better player than Gerrard at the same age. This will be our last chance to sell him, and it may be whats on his mind, this is his last year where he will be able to command a big contract from a top club.
When he flirted with Chelsea before, he was a relatively young footballer and was able to give us a few more years.
Now he can’t, does he look at the crap state of the club and think ‘i’ll win another major trophy with this lot before I’m past it’ or does he think, screw this, i’m outta here to win some medals cos this ship won’t be righted for years even if we got new investment.
As for the game, it was terrible, neither team wanted to risk losing it after it went level, they got their chance and took it, we got ours and fluffed it. End of really. It was never going to be anything else, they played 3 what i’d call defensive midfielders, tacklers, sideways passers, whatever you want to call them, but there was no way fungus was gonna get beat 4 1 again and it showed.

Well Dougle I don’t think you can say with 100% certainty that Rafa wont walk at the end of this season or that we may get some form of cash boost in the pre-season – but as you say we’ll have to just wait and see

Rome; yes it was a peno. Why should Nipple and Fletcher have gone? For handbags at 5 paces? Should Nando and Masch have gone? Should Stevie have even been playing?! Swings and roundabouts mate. Love debating with you as much as anyone in here Rome but you really lose me with your FA conspiracy theories. 80mins of abject acceptance and lack of ambition from our manager later and its the ref again? Sorry mate, cant help you. Best team won, no complaints.

No I dont think your wrong Jack. I think your more right than we probably know. Its more than an impression for me. I firmly believe and have done for quite a while that Rafas lost Stevies support. Our skippers silence has been deafening all season whilst his body language on the pitch, though ill befitting of a Liverpool captain, speaks volumes. Its more than clear – its obvious somethings going on. And when he looks around and sees Aquilani, Babel and Benny on the bench, its hard not to see his point.

Whatever about the penalty decision i was a silly mistake from masch.

Where was agger going anyway.If he stood his ground it was free outside the box at worst.

No point going over and over it i suppose.We just didn`t play second half.They understandably being the home team had to take the initiative second half and without playing great themselves,did enough to win the game.

I`m just wondering,is the result there last season clouding some peoples judgement somewhat?

Digger – I have never, ever bought this whole Fergie has the F.A. in his pocket argument! Sure he whinges a lot and is without doubt a master manipulator, but I’d have give my left testicle if he had been our manager all these years.

Sure Utd get the odd dodgy decision – but so do all teams spread out over a season. We just notice Utd (and the other so called big clubs) a bit more, because of their exposure in the media (in my humble opinion)

It’s such a cliché, but the league table never lies. Utd are (unfortunately) probably the best of a fairly mediocre bunch this year and this is despite the fact that this current Utd team is one of the weakest (in terms of quality)Ferguson has had in years.

Referees and FA conspiracies didn’t cause us to lose to Wigan, Portsmouth, Sunderland and all the other shitty draws and losses this year

LB, If I’d been in goal, I would have made sure I’d slipped and let Benny’s header in!

We all are clear on onething. Rafa bought Aqua for the future. He knew that the player is injured and will not be fit until christmas. He clearly felt that an injured Aqua for 20m was the best bet during the transfer window.

Rafa was optimistic that Lucas will deliver(Which he has honestly). Deep down, i am quite convinced that he knew Alonso was not replaced. He just hoped that Torres,Gerrard would be fit for the entire season(Which has not happened.Gerrard has also not reached last seasons heights)and bang in the goals.

I dont know whether that 20m could have been spent in a better way or not but certainly Rafa had chosen a gradual rebuilding over immediate improvement/replacement.

To me he has gone wrong in the transfer dealing from the point of buying Robbie Keane. If i see the flops(Dossena,Voronin etc), they have not affected our assualt on the title as much as Keane or Aqua’s recovery from injury has.

If he is given the money to buy, i think he can win us the title. But is he prepared to shed that over cautious approach and be a bit bold? If he stays,his summer purchases will indicate that.

Arthur,
look at the stats for the pens for utd at their ground and the pens not given against them, you will or should be appalled my friend and then ask yourself who gave and did’nt give them.

Arthur,

I’ve never liked Fergie because of his extremely unsporting behaviour and underhand tactics, such as blaming jersey colour when defeated, and ganging up with fellow lackeys (Fat Sam) to sprout untruths (about Rafa).

He likes to show all managers that he is the boss and goes round bullying and intimidating others (remember the who’s this guy from Japan remark on Wenger in addition to the Rafa incident I cited above?)

Like Maureen, he thinks only about himself. I’d not want to be associated with him at all, and would stop supporting Liverpool if we have managers like him, unlike you giving away your left testicle.

theredman,

You forgot to mention the 7 minutes (or till Man U score) extra time given during their derby game this season.

Digger
While Gerrard should have been sent off at Portsmouth how does Nipple’s karate kick while landing on Maxi’s head compare, if i did that on a Saturday night in front of a policeman i’m going to prison. Fletcher apart from the fact the Ref pulled him out and stopped him from commiting further fouls ( why ? ) remember Becham getting sent off in the WC for his little flick. Mach & Torres both yellow cards.Shrek clearly shouted the words F*ck off to the ref remember Masch the last time the ref (Steve Bennet lifelong Manc fan ) decided to play favours at the Toilet.
Bearing in mind the Pen changed the game and ultimately gave them 3pts along with a few other games this season lets see where those extra points get them come May its won them the PL before and i’ve been waiting years for it to “even out over a season” for them, but it never happens.
Arthur
I’d of give my left nut to have the money and backing Taggarts had, then we could of bought the Prem aswell. Then again 600 mill debt maybe not.
YNWA

Digger
“Our skippers silence has been deafening all season” I remember him talking about how the owners should back Rafa and give him some money.
Which to me is a better indicator of who he’s upset with. Better than something he hasn’t said anyway.
YNWA

I always find it amusing when fans (on here and in the “real” world) say that’d stop following LFC if we got someone like Mourinho in (not that I think he’d come given our current plight)

Why??? cos he’s not all that nice? He’s selfish?? He only thinks of himself?? Huh??? What!!!???

Football is all about success. Is Benitez a “nice guy”?? – ask Alonso, Riera, Keane, Bellamy, Warnock and see what they say..

All in here have to realise – whether they are Rafa fans or not, that Rafa may not be around much longer, so we’ll all have to get used to someone new. If (for some bizarre reason) Mourinho did become manager, could anyone honestly say they would stop following Liverpool because they didn’t like the managers personality?? Surely we have to give whoever the manager was a fair chance to prove himself?? Seems like common sense to me…

Instead of talking about who should be sold, it would be quicker to name the players worth keeping!.Why have the coaching staff been able to dodge the blame?.Riera was never up to much, not good enogh for Cita and was hopeless whenever he played.The scouting system needs to be scrutinised, too many mistakes.

Well, we’re talking about not being so full of yourself. It’s not about being a nice guy. Sure, Rafa isn’t a nice guy as you’ve defined here.

You can call me unreal (which I sometimes think I am), but I’m don’t like managers who only talk about themselves. “Chelsea is like MY home”, “Only MY team tried to play football after they scored”, and wouldn’t trade my nut for any successes bought by them

Think I’m not clear in the previous post. For Fergie, the word “unscrupulous” (too strong here but I can’t think of a better word for it now), and for Maureen, “narcissistic”.

And I firmly believe the team’s behaviour on the pitch a is largely influenced by the manager. In other words, the team is built in the manager’s image to a large extent.

I’m sure many of us here can’t stand Utd players protesting and surrounding refs like thugs. Do we want our players to behave this way?

Axchoice – some of Utd’s players do act poorly (Nevile, Keane, Cantona) but I think we all have to admit that since 1993 – Ferguson has produced some fantastic teams – playing some wonderfully attacking football.

You may not like the man, our how he goes about his business but I envy / admire his success. One of the greatest managers of all time. FACT. Just unfortunate that Crystal Palace coudln’t have held on to their 3-2 lead in F.A. Cup in 1990 and things might have been very very different…sigh

I think it has been proven time and again that Man Utd do get way too many “odd” ref decisions in their favour. Why that happens is a complex issue, but in general the big clubs have an advantage against smaller ones, aside from the fact that they are better in footballing terms (if that is the case). It’s probably a lot down to the mental pressure getting too hard to handle for the referee. The scum have clearly won a fair number of dubious penalties in this way, but so have we to be honest (aside from this season).

Regarding Ferguson I strangely find him both likable and despicable at the same time. While a lot of the things he says and does are nothing but downright arrogant and spiteful, he does have a very similar background and political view to our own hero Mr Shankly. They are of course very different in other ways, but working class backgrounds and politics are usually reason enough for me to respect people. Besides that, there’s no denying his achievements over the years. What impresses me the most is the way he makes his entire squad (more or less) perform and get into games with the kind of mentality I think we have often lacked, this season in particular. Though it must be said Rafa created something on the same level last season, which of course scared the hell out of Fergie, leading up to that idiocy with Fat Sam. Despite all his strengths, I am not at all sure that the means always justify the end for Fergie. Some of the methods he uses are ugly and I imagine Shanks might use the word “cheating” to describe them.

“he does have a very similar background and political view to our own hero Mr Shankly.”

Not having a go sachem he may have the same background to Bill but has forgotten it.Why does he insist being addressed as sir by waiters at private functions and what not.

Horrible piece of crap of a man and as for Maureen Aurthor i think his whole demeaner and everything about him is the opposite to what LFC is all about and what values this great club was build on.
He`s all himself and when the going got tough at chelsea and the open cheque book wasn`t so open anymore,he upped sticks and left.Anywhere he`s been he`s had the soundest financial resources in that particular country.
Anybody who thinks he`d even come to us anyway is living in cloud cuckoo land.Although i`d never stop supporting the reds i`d feel violently sick if he ever got the job.

Of course all hypothetical.

Arthur,
you sound like a fuckin sportswriter for the daily mail.
Remember his wonderful wise words “lets knock Liverpool off their fuckin perch”, i would’nt laud that cunt and his team for anything in the world, Shrek once a blue always a blue, and fuckin rat boy neville who hates Liverpool not just the team but the city, “some of them do act poorly”, honestly i fuckin despair in here sometimes.

Seeing as we’re playing the Hypothetical Game , how about this one:

Ok, Rafa walks – sick and tired of all the guff he’s had to endure this year. We don’t get any huge new amount of investment – but board say we can spend €25-30 million approx. Who would you like to step into Rafa’s shoes…

Arthur
This is deluded, who we want to step into Rafa’s shoes is immaterial, who would be willing is the question and why would they get any money, Rafa hasn’t and I see no reason for another manager to get any.

Talk of Maureen or anybody else considered to be of a similar calibre taking the job is just fantasy football and there is way too much of that going on already.

The calibre of manager willing to take over a job with no money and against this backdrop is frightening and the future for us as a club is bleak

5Year – chill your knickers – I’m just interested to see who people would like – fuck – it’s not as if what I have outlined is out of this world unlikely!

If Rafa goes – live at LFC will go on lads!

that should be “life” btw

Redman – I see we clash again. You really are a petty individual aren’t you???

I don’t follow Utd, but I do follow and understand football and when I see a team play in an attractive, attacking and successful manner, I am able to appreciate it – regardless of who they are.

I think it’s extremely childish to dismiss what Ferguson has done in his career – just because we don’t like Man U. boo hoo…

Oh and Redman – I’m a Guardian reader myself

Who would come with no transfer budget to speak of? maureen clearly wouldn’t. if they were to get a budget why shouldn’t rafa?

all nonsense.

very contravertial point i know but i believe if stevie would’ve gone to chelski we would’ve wn the prem by now…

For the open-minded amongst us there is a good analysis of Stevie at Manure on the main TIA site. Facts and stats.

For an interesting take on the “corrupt” nature of EPL and Manure in particular there is a very good episode of NYLFC podcast, the latest 53. Worth a listen.It’s on ITunes.

And the winner is…..McrRed! Comment of the day mate! An absolute belter! All-time classic!

Arthur,we all recognise what the tramp has achieved and most begrudgingly respect it.His record speaks for itself.

What gets up some peoples hole is when people come in here and compare rafa to him all the time.

We all know that isn`t fair as the resources both managers have had are miles apart.

You say you want Rafa to go at teams like the tramp does.Admittedly rafa isn`t an all out attack manager but he does set his teams up to first work hard,press the opponents high up the pitch and when they have the ball to move it quick with players interchanging all over the shop.
We seen it at valencia and we`ve seen it in patches here.Notibly the last ten games of last season.
Thing is this type of football could have been delivered if rafa didn`t have to sell to buy in nearly every season he`s been here.I think we can all agree there is players of good quality out there that rafa wanted but couldn`t get because of the clowns upstairs.

People need to step back,look at the bigger picture.I know people are sick of hearing about the two clowns but they are the cancer in our club and all problems top to bottom stem from there.

The way people are talking Rafa is already gone.Well as bad as this season has been and looking at the FACTS,i simply don`t see how the departure of the manager is going to make us a stronger force.I simply don`t.

Some might get their wish,Rafa`s position might become intenable and then were in right schtuk in my opinion.

I think post-mortems on the management should be at least be put aside for the rest of the season.There`s a long summer there for that.I think we should just concentrate on supporting the lads to the end.I`ll be heading over for the fulham game in a couple of weeks and i`ll do my best to get behind the lads then.

I’m amazed arthur The Guardian eh, am i supposed to be impressed because some of your comments sounds like you read the beano.
No one is taking anything away from the tramp and what he has done, i’m saying to you he has had a lot of help frrom referee’s on his way but if you think otherwise oh genius pundit carry on.
Fuckin pathetic.

I’d like to ask you a question Red.

Are you seeing a therapist for all that pent up rage? Honestly, I have rarely experienced such vitriol in response to some of my postings from anyone else here (postings, I might add, that don’t even usually quote, argue or contradict anything that you have initially posted).

You seem to be one of these posters who seem that they have to verbally attack others who disagree with their opinions. You think Ferguson is The Tramp, the anti-Christ, whatever. I disagree. You want Rafa to stay and anyone else who even fathoms a future without him is “fucking pathetic” or other such nasty phrases. Well again, I disagree.

I don’t remember reading in The Daily Mail (or was it the Beano) when it said you have a monopoly on wisdom Redman..

I’ve said it many times in here – I thought we’re all supposed to support the same club – but I guess to some people in this blog it’s more important that we all sing off their hymn sheet. Well that’s “pathetic” Redman. I’m sorry that I seem to get on your nerves but I ain’t going away. Cos you know what…just like you….I think I’m right!

So anyway by your logic, the most successful manager in British football history and one of the most successful in all of modern history, is really only there because “he had a lot of help from referees along the way”?????

hmmmmmmmm…..

You read that in the Dandy?

Lads, Messi scored another hatrick last weekend. Wouldn’t mind him in our side….

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0gQuOo-Mws

Last word from me regarding you, you just carry on being a manc and fergie voyeur.

Arthur, here are some more FACTS for you.

Man.U, Alex Ferguscum, Gary Neville and every other twat on their books are a bunch of complete CUNTS!

I despise everything to do with them, always have, always will and if you want to sing their praises, would you be kind enough to go and do it somewhere else please?

I haven’t got alot of time for Chelsea or Arsenal, but I will be willing both of them on to stop those Manc fuckers from toppling our history.

Scenario: 1st May, Anfield. Penultimate game of the season. Chelsea beat Liverpool to go four points clear at the top, meaning they clinch the PL title and LFC miss out on fourth place. Would you take that to stop the Mancs winning the Prem?

I would. Of course I’d prefer Arsenal to win it because they don’t have to play us in their run-in so them getting maximum points and Chelsea winning at Old Toilet for example, would also mean the Mancs missing out,but I’m sure you get my point.

I despise the fuckers THAT much!

Thanks Digger,
and I’m not saying he’s anything other than the best Liverpool player, bar none, for a generation…

…but, Rafa’s model of cogs in a crushing machine only works with unquestioning support and belief. When he went to Valencia he got rid of a few key names straightaway (and got roundly criticised for it) but was able to stamp his mould and authority on the team.

When he came here, Murphy, Owen and a couple of others went early on but Gerrard was (and is) too much of a talisman. Great when he’s on form – he’ll win you stuff.

But, as this season, when he’s been injured or his head’s not right he can be a drag on the delicate sensibilities of his teammates – or so it seems. We’ll never know for sure but…

Glad I cheered you up though.

Night, fellas!

Steve i hate the mancs.

The players,the fans,the manager…..The horrible Trilogy.

As much as i hate them pal i`d never want anything but the best for the reds.If beating the chavs handed it to the mancs then so be it if it qualifies us for the CL.

My love for LFC is greater than my hatred of that shower.

And that senario could be a very big possibility if we`re finishing fourth.

Steve – i remember that a few years ago we played Blackburn last game of the season where they needed to get a result against us to gaurentee the league. At the same time Manure had to go to West Spam. We handed it to them by beating Kenny D’s Blackburn … but they screwed up by somehow not beating West Spam. I remember Kenny’s face when he realised they’d done it. It looked like a hell of a party at Anfield that day.
I’m with Timmy. Always do your own stuff. It’s self respect.
As for Manure’s 19th Well it’s only a matter of time really. They are in a different league now to us. Or should I say we are in a different league to them (and a few others).
It’s different times we live in now. It’s not the same thing. I remember through the 70′s and 80′s, even the early 90′s all the different teams that won/nearly won the league. Off the top of my head there was Derby, Villa, Ipswich, QPR, Norwich, Forest, Newcastle, Leeds, Blackburn probably there were others too. Who now can you see as possible winners ?
Manure, Chavski, Citeh, Arsenal ? 2 of those clubs are there solely because of massive financial injections. I cannot see anybody else getting up there right now. Ourselves and Spurs & Villa (money again talks for both of them) well we may give them the odd fright the odd year but seriously I can’t see anyone else. So it’s gonna be the 19th then the 20th and so on….

As we are we’re fuc*ed. The vampires are sucking the life out of us and undermining the best hope of success we’ve had since Bill & Bob. They don’t care.

I hear what your’e saying Timmy, but LFC are not going to be winning the PL anytime soon and the thought of the vermin celebrating the fact that they have more titles than us (for the first time in history) would be just too much to stomach.

Nobody has won the title more times than us. Let’s hope it stays that way.

Either number 14 for Arsenal or number 5 for Chelsea please.

We all want that too steve but its a damned if we do/don`t situation.

I agree that Fergie’s achievements can never be denied, FACT. But I’m definitely not selling my allegiance to the devil, even if that means we win more trophies.

As the others have pointed out, I find it hard to support teams that crowd around the ref on the field and pressurise them off the field, lashing out literally at all opposition (remember Arsenal?) and of course, when the shit hit the fan.

Arthur,
If you think the favourable decisions to them are due to their status as the most successful club now, think again. It may be partly true, but you just can’t simply dismiss the effects of Fergie’s constant complaints to the FA about a particular Ref when things don’t go their way. How about “this guy is too inexperienced to officiate big games” for a starter?

Essentially, we have different principles. I fully understand your reasons to hope that we have a good (great in terms of achievements) manager in Fergie to manage us forward, but this obstinate middle-aged fan here has some lofty principles that’s holding him back.

Steve,

Like you, I hope Arsenal wins the EPL too, but that’s all we can do in this deeply disappointing season.

If only the Steve on the field has the passion of the Steve in Kopblog…..

Dougle,

You say United are in a different league to us but I don’t think they are.

Even before Sunday’s game I did not see a huge difference between us and them and I still don’t. They have a bit more quality out wide and much as I hate the bullying cunt, I think Fergie is more adventurous than us. Not much in it.

Alright lads
long time no comment

Its shitty that the year we have our blip (Arsenal last year) the bar has risen.
Anyway I just see that David Moyes has been at Everton 8 years now. Now Everton have had some serious ups and downs over that time but overall they have improved greatly and have some very good players.
Now if Moyes had been sacked after the year they were nearly relegated I think they would have been relegated by now without players like Arteta Cahill etc.
Same goes for Arsenal. Now I know they won the league and played the best football under wenger at the beginning of his tenure but they had some serious blips too! like I said ups and downs.
Now this brings me to Rafa
This is our 1st serious blip season with him in charge but we see it as a blip because of the players he has assembled and the standards he has set.
I dont think anyone will come in and transform us over night so we stick with the original plan ánd dont be afraid of the dark!

ups and downs, highs and lows, thrills and spills such as life!!

Im not going to kick me missus out for burning the spuds!!

Im looking forward to see how Rafa analyses this season and improves for next. I just hope he doesnt get fired or have to sell his star players just because we dont make the fucking Champions League.

anyway like i said lads highs and lows I think the guy deserves our support as I think he’s had our back in the past

end or ramble

over and out

Well said, Donal!

Nice one Donal!
That’s exactly it. Rafa has had ONE bad season in 6, and now he has to go? Defies logic, belief, call it whatever you like. I mean, guys like Arthur & Digger can argue away as to what Rafa has done wrong this season – no manager is perfect, so some of their arguments might hold water – but the FACT is we have been fairly successful the past 6 seasons, yes or no?
So then, why the fuck must Rafa go?

Well Rafalution

Ive no beef with art or dig as were all entitled to our opinions and maybe Rafa has burnt the spuds too often for them but I’m a patient man.

I never remember Liverpool winning the league so since i’ve supported Liverpool the last few years is the most excited and optimistic I’ve been

No one is gonna come in and win the league for us with the way our rivals are progressing but I do believe we have the players, structure and manager to build on our strong foundation

To be honest I don’t really see dig and art calling for Rafas head! Maybe im not looking close enough but I do see them question him and I’m ok with that…..It’s what they do!!

So yeah man we’ve done as well as ive experiences as a supporter about 23 years (but i was only 5 then so all i remember is the A Team and hating cabbage) so im looking forward to the future under Rafa
He’s a great manager and Loves the city . We dont qualify for the Champs Lge for 1 year and we hang the poor bastard out to dry like he just wiped his arse with the Liverbird!!
Fuck that

Thats not The scouser way!!(from what i’ve experienced)

End of Ramble no 2

Over and out

Donal, I’m not having a pop at Art or Digger. They are – like everyone else – entitled to their opinion. And their posts/arguments ‘do hold water’ at times
And Arthur, Digger, I’m sure I’ve seen some posts from you saying you want Rafa out?
However, like you so eloquently state Donal – it seems like Rafa has wiped his arse with the Liverbird.
FFS, the guy eats, sleeps & breathes Liverpool Football Club. You should see some of the comments by ‘fans’ on the main site. Disgusting.

Hello all – some good stuff here (bar that nonsense from some twat calling me a Fergie voyeur – sounds like something Ferguson would say : ) )

Anyway I have never come out and said “Rafa out” but I’m extremely unsure about him – and I don’t think I’m on my own in this way of thinking.

It’s not that this is the first major blip in his career at LFC – it’s that all the indicators (in my eyes at least) point to the fact that he has lost the respect of a number of senior players in the Anfield dressing room. If this is the case, blip or no blip – it may be difficult for Rafa to ever get that respect back.

As for CL qualification or seeing the Mancs win number 19 – reluctantly I’d have to side with us gaining CL qualification. We need to focus on the fortunes of our own club not others. The unfortunate reality is that it looks like Utd will win the PL this season, so we’re just gonna have to get used to it

Maybe the Mancs winning the 19th title (and overtaking us for most titles won – I never thought I would see myself write that in my lifetime!) could be just the kick up the ass that LFC needs.

The only way we are going to start competing again is if we get a sugar daddy new owner(s) or if the fans come together Barcelona style (http://www.shareliverpoolfc.com/) and buy the club!

I could never afford £5k, but with the Manc fucks at 19 titles I know I would find £500 from somewhere!

YNWA

Oak – I received regular emails from those guys – I’d be willing/able to put £1k if I knew there was a groundswell of like-minded people out there doing the same

Ref Taggart – No one can argue with his achievements, however he is dispicable! The man is arrogance personified. An absolute disgrace, horrible. He hates Liverpool, despises the club, the people and the city, well the feeling is mutual. I wouldn’t piss on him if he was on fire to put him out.

Fact: there is one rule for manure and another rule for everybody else.

No Rafalution I dont think I’ve ever posted ‘Rafa out!’ or ‘Off with his head!’ or any other sensationalist bullshit. And thats a deliberate decision on my part. Theres enough of the disgraceful ‘Fat Spanish waiter’ crap on other sites, phone ins etc. At the end of the day he’s our manager and should be treated as such. He’s one of us til the day he leaves and even there after as far as I’m concerned. Now, am I a rabbit caught in this deities headlights?! I think we all know the answer to that!

What kind of car does Rafa drive Dig?

Ok Digger, I apologise. I think you’ve only insinuated that he is no longer the man to manage LFC? And of course, we are all allowed to debate that issue anyway.

Where’s my apology Rafa??? just messin

No apology necessary Rafa mate. Lets face it, it would be hard not to make an educated guess on what my position on Rafa is. I’m in the vast minority in here, one of 2 or 3 who openly question Rafa and am prepared to highlight his mistakes and wonder aloud why he keeps making the same ones repeatedly. So I can see its not difficult to make the leap you made. No problem mate. Truth be told I’d be stunned if Rafa was our manager in August. 6yrs, 200 odd mil spent, there is no excuse for the footie we play.

Oh dear Digger! 200 million spent? Not that old chesnut again! Nobody thinks Rafa’s a deity, Sometimes his overthinking does my head in but I can’t see a better manager around who would come and who’s available.

Roy hodgson is doing a fine job at Fulham. a proper manager/coach/ football man is a name I would welcome if Rafa was not our manager next year.

Arthur: The thought of taggart anywhere remotly near our great club makes me physically sick. The only time I watch the mancs is if they are playing us. I hate them with a vengance.

The sight of their shirt/badge makes me physically sick.

The city of manchester is an empty shell with no soul, wouldn’t live there or visit if you paid me a million quid.

I hope that explains how I feel.

The Mancs are winning titles with points levels that Bob P could only dream about.90 last year and probably the same this.The great LFC team of 82-84 won their titles with 87, 82 and 80 points all from 42 games.That’s an indicator of how brilliant you need to be to win the Prem.The Mancs could end up scoring more league goals this season than ever before.

Burgerman you have just indirectly admitted that it is far more difficult to win the league in the modern era. So for Rafa to achieve it he’d have to achieve a points tally that Bob Paisley could only dream about!

1982-84 we won the league with 87, 82 and 80 points. Rafa has already achieved 82 points (2005-06) and 86 points (2008-09). From only 38 games. I think I am right in saying that no Liverpool manager has had a higher points tally over 38 games than Rafa. No manager since Fagan got close to winning the European cup either. £200 million wasted then, lets sack him.

Gross spend, net spend, call it what you will. It was spent Ken.

Even if the Reds win all their remaining games and finish on 72 points, it may not be enough for fourth.Dalglish would of gone very close to winning the EC in 86 or 88.

Surely you dont think it was wasted LB?

Kenny – I never said I wanted Ferguson to manage our club.

Digger, instead of getting bogged down in figures (was it net, was it gross) it’s more telling to just point how many players Rafa has gone through in the last 6 years and we’re still incapable of going to the like of Wigan and Stoke and play decent attacking football

56 players bought for estimated value (£200+ million) and 67 players sold for approx value £153 million – stats from http://www.lfchistory.net

Arthur: tell the whole story then. 56 players bought for the first team? 67 first team players sold? Can you elaborate or would that undermine your point?

Digger: It does matter whether it was gross/net spend.

If he was given 200 million quid in one go and told to go and spend it surley that is different to being given lets 30 million one year, ten, million the next year, sell someone to buy someone, replace someone, someone gets older and retires etc.

Digger here’s £10,000 go and buy a brand new BMW. You could wheel and deel that money and eventually get there in the end putting in a bit of your own as well or I could give you £30,000 and you could buy one immediately.

I just did this bit of research. Points average per league match achieved by each Liverpool manager from Shanks to Rafa. I gave 3 points for a win for Shanks and Paisley even though in their era it was 2 points for a win. I simply multiplied number of wins by 3 then added that to the number of drawn games. (1 point per drawn game) and divided by the amount of league games played. I got all the info from LFChistory.net

Results:

Daglish 2.08 points per game
Paisley 1.97
Benitez 1.90
Fagan 1.89
Shankly 1.81
Evans 1.79
Houllier 1.75
Souness 1.54

I also looked up the win percentage for ALL matches for each manager:

Daglish 60.91%
Paisley 57.38%
Benitez 55.75%
Fagan 53.44%
Shankly 51.98%
Houllier 51.47%
Evans 51.33%
Souness 41.40%

I then looked up average goals per game for each manager – all competitions:

Daglish 2.01 goals per game
Paisley 1.79
Fagan 1.72
Houllier 1.68
Benitez 1.67
Shankly 1.67
Evans 1.66
Souness 1.58

Thoughts?

Check the site yourself Kenny – but from a quick glance around 43 of the 56 bought were for the first team – quite a high percentage in my view

Interesting – would have thought Benitez would have had a higher goal per game ratio than Ged – but not really all that much in it I suppose…

Here is a 38 game league table of Liverpool managers since Shankly. I have averaged out points and goals scored.

Dalglish 79 pts 76 goals
Paisley 75 pts 68 goals
Benitez 72 pts 63 goals
Fagan 72 pts 65 goals
Shankly 69 pts 63 goals
Evans 68 pts 63 goals
Houllier 67 pts 64 goals
Souness 59 pts 60 goals

Ken what manager does get 200mil all in one go?! C’mon mate, we can slice it and dice it whatever way we want but ultimately we’ve spent 200mil on players during Rafas tenure. Can you mail me that 10G’s btw?!

Neilob – just to clarify what I meant. I mean in overall terms, i.e Financial, Structural, Squad, ability to consistently challenge I don’t see us right now being in a position to compete with the top-richest clubs.
I would say that on any given day we have had a team which when fit and playing to it’s potential can beat any other club side in England.
However right now we don’t have those conditions off the park (neither on it of late).

Interesting Stats LB.

How do you interprete them tho’ ?

One way you could do it is by putting them in a time-line and look at the circumstances at the club at the time.

Shankley took a team and made a great team, started low and worked his way up so to speak. Bob took it over (inherited it) and improved it. Joe and Kenny inherited successful teams and so it was easier to keep up the ratings so to speak.
Souness inherited an aging/unproven mix at a time when there were player nationality quotas for europe which may in part account for the plunge.
Evans improved the situation, GH initially did but then stuffed the squad with mediocre non-performers and nose-dived and Benitez has inherited the GH mess and has really uppped the ratings.

Regarding a manager losing the dressing room. If you consider the manager a very good one and place more value on him when compared to the players that are not on board with the manager, well then you simply let the manager clear out the players he thinks are a problem. This is what would happen if you brought in a new manager and the current players had a problem with him. Unless of course you are Chelsea.

The only thing I would question Rafa on is style of football and being overly cautious in certain circumstances. I don’t think one can argue with the results. Invariably you get what you pay for. If you come to a club that for the 2 years previously finished 19 points and then 30 points behind the champions. Spending £200m and selling £153m over 6 years is not going to be enough I’m afraid.

Money spent has nothing to do with style of football. The philosophy of the manager/coach is what determines style of football. Finances for wages and transfers determine results.

Wenger came to Arsenal and had them playing football immediately. Houllier changed Liverpool from an attacking passing side to a more difficult to beat counter attacking team. It didn’t take that long for the change to be implemented. Rafa likes to control matches by being compact and extremely difficult to beat. We lost 2 games last season and the year before we lost 4.

If Rafa had full backing from the Liverpool board and had decent money to spend – say £25m-£30 NET (not sell to buy policy) every summer. I think he would eventually win us a league title. However I don’t think we would ever play like Arsenal or Barcelona. I don’t think we’d play the type of football that Valencia played under Rafa either.

We could replace Rafa but under the financial circumstances I do not think the results would vastly improve. And when I say that I am talking about the last 6 years not the last 6 months. The football might improve. We might be a more attacking side depending on what manager we get. But we’d still in my opinion be fighting to finish in the top 4. We might beat Wolves 6-0 and slaughter Wigan 5-1 we’d also might be more likely to lose 5-1 at the Nou Camp or Old Trafford. Ultimately I cannot see a manager doing any better than 1.9 points per league match unless we get some proper money to spend.

I want success AND I want nice football but I do not want one without the other. Fuck that, I am not a Spurs fan. I had lovely football under Roy Evans and I wasn’t satisfied so I know for a fact I would not be satisfied with lovely football and not being able to compete for top honours. This is why you’ll only see me calling for Rafa’s head when I know it’s realistic we’ll be able to buy better players than what we already have and also when it’s realistic we can attract a better coach/manager.

Well said there LB.
Some excellent stats too… can you factor in how long each manager was in control?

The despicably imortal Fergie has a similar percentage to Rafa… in the mid 50s %.

THE most successful manager in Prem history and he only has a 50s% win ratio! What does that tell you?

Stats can be an indicator, but they will only ever tell you half the story.

And an interesting addendum to your research LB, over on Tomkins blog…

http://tomkinstimes.com/2010/03/the-past-and-the-pending/

And another interesting read…
… the last couple of paragraphs are quite telling… in my opinion…

http://tomkinstimes.com/2010/03/right-manager-wrong-owners/

I would like Arthur and Digger to read that 2nd link and give their thoughts on it. Just in case you see Tomkins and think “no not another article from that Rafa apologist” I’ll paste a few paragraphs I thought were very interesting.

“If Benítez lacked a striker and another centre-back by the time the season started, it was because he was told at the start of the summer that he had a certain amount to spend, only to be told later on that he had to break even instead. (And as it was, his ‘expensive’ signings cost little up front: Aquilani was a £5m downpayment, Johnson was bought with £8m owed by Portsmouth, who were running out of money.)

I have little doubt that, if fully supported, Benítez is the right man for the job. (What little doubt I have is simply the fact that no-one can guarantee success, especially in an unstable climate. Of course he’s not perfect, but then nor was Jose Mourinho at Chelsea once he was undermined by those above him.)

This time last year it was Arsene Wenger being questioned; now he is being feted again, even though Arsenal, despite having a great season, could easily finish 3rd, a position Wenger hasn’t bettered since 2005, but which Benítez has.

And if City and Spurs had been as strong this time last year, Arsenal could easily have been under more pressure in the race for 4th, and finished 5th instead. (Just as Liverpool failed to win the league with 86 points, it seems that they could get over 70 points and still miss out on the top five this year.)

Wenger’s been relying on his brilliant youth system, which was set up in the ‘90s. But managers without such long-term benefits need to sell their flops (and they all sign them) as well as their successes who want a new challenge, and reinvest the money in the transfer market.

When I met Benítez in October, he knew that the squad lacked depth. He was under no illusions about the task he faced.

Since then, three of his less-astute signings, Dossena, Voronin and now Riera (if the CSKA deal is finalised) have been sold, bringing in roughly what they cost, but with the money apparently earmarked for debt repayment. In their stead has come Maxi, a canny free-transfer.

So in terms of personnel, three full internationals have moved on since October, and one has arrived. My reading of the situation is that Voronin was only called back because, having had a good season in Germany, and with Benítez having no money to spend, it was either him or two largely untested 20-year-olds (N’Gog and Nemeth).

By contrast, when Spurs sold Carrick, Keane and Berbatov, they spent the money on a whole host of £10m+ players (Bent, Defoe, Crouch, Bentley, Bale, Pavlyuchenko, Modric, Palacios, and Keane once more, while Bassong, Gomes, Woodgate and Corluka weren’t cheap either).

They reinvested the money, to improve, rather than to pay off debt that didn’t exist before the owners pitched up. The result is a squad that now costs far more (approximately £50m) than Liverpool’s; and achieved without Champions League income.

When you’re looking on in envy at the way Spurs are being run, you know times have changed.”

You don’t even have to look back… look forward…

Riera is rumored to Moscow for 6 million quid.

Now 6 million quid might not be enough to buy a “world class” left back, but it ought to be enough to buy at least a decent back-up to Insua.

But ooops… LFC took 8 million quid in Euro Development Funds… to build “the new stadium”… and not having actually made any attempt to build one… now have to pay the fuckin money back this summer.

So… money that could have sealed the Arda Turan deal, is now gone… and we still need to find 2 million from somewhere?

Great night results wise for us.

Aston Villa drop 2 points at home and more importantly the BlueShite do us a huge favour by beating man city 2-0.

All is not lost yet lads.Keep the faith.

LB, don’t forget that back in the 80′s it was only two points for a win, not three!

Steve, 3 points was brought in in the 1981-82 season.

Apologies LB, I’ve just realised that you had already taken that into account.

Interestingly the number of draws has not been effected since the switch from 2 points to 3 points for a win.

When did 4th place become the ugly, fat bird that no one wants to shag???

Aitch..

We`re biding our time get in that fat bitch when everyones asleep at the party..

(I swear i`ve never done that)

Poor Pompey got a good hiding tonight. The highlights are on slysports and every time I look up the ball is in the back of David James’ net.

Looking at the league table I think we should a bit concerned about a certain Everton who are only 3 points behind us and in good form.

Agree LB normally i`d say they`ve too much to do but with everyone being so inconsistant,they`re in with a shout.

Just hope the players are buzzin in training tomorrow these results would have given them a lift.

Big game sunday have to fly at them from the off.

Comparing the stats from Shanks to Rafa is extremely misleading as the overall standard of the top division has fallen dramatically in recent years.

TV money etc. has lead to a huge gap between the top 4 (will still include us here for now) and the rest of teh league emerging.

Just to illustrate this point remember that in 1977-78 Notts Forest got promoted from the second divison and won the first division (pl). Now it’s a minor miracle if the promoted teams last more than 2 seasons in the top flight.

Digger,

With regards to #228, the Real Manager gets about that amount this season. Remember the 80m (Ronaldo) + 60m (Kaka) + 30m (Alonso) + I can’t remember how much he paid for Benzema (dunno the spelling).

I think you’ve also forgotten the amount Chelski spent in 2 seasons under Tinkerman and Maureen. And what about Mac City the last 2 seasons?

So you are comparing Rafa’s spending with them and saying Rafa has as much resources as them to achieve success?

If you want to criticise someone, backup with facts and sense. Criticising Rafa based on his spending by choosing to ignore whether it is gross or nett, and even failing to consider this amount is spend over 6 seasons makes me think you’re a member of the Journalistic Association of Britain.

Put the bong down Ax! C’mon mate, who’s comparing our spending to Reals or chelseas? Who’s saying Rafas had similar resources? Where did I fail to consider our 200mil was spent over 6yrs? Post #214 ‘…6yrs, 200mil spent…’ Whats that Ax?! And as for casting me down with the British hacks! I’ve been called a lot of things in here mate but thats the lowest of the low! Below the belt and uncalled for! I think maybe you got the wrong end of my posts Ax?

Havent forgotten your question LB but I’m just back from first football training of the season and I’m bollixed so in brief maybe spurs spent their money more wisely mate? The summer transfer window of 08 will haunt me for the rest of my life. Dossena 7m. Riera 8m. Keane 20mil. All 3 gone. Cavalieri 3.5 was it? Ngog 1.5mil. 40mil well spent? Add in the Barry pursuit that would hasten Xabis exit. Perfect storm of fuck-ups. Tomkins can split hairs all he wants but at the end of the day Rafa made those calls.

Digger,

First I agree that Rafa had a bad 2008 season in terms of transfer. This is FACT in my opinion.

But what you fail to say is that he’s sufficiently recouped from his mistakes with the biggest one being dealt with the quickest. For Keane, out nett loss is about 7m for 1 season. Add in Dossena (nett loss about 2m) and Riera (also 2m) and we have a grand total of 11m over 2 seasons. Is it really that bad?

The irony is, I remember people hailing Riera as a great signing just last season. So is he really a failure after one injury laden season?

What about 1.5m Ngog, who currently at age 21 has scored 10 goals in 30 appearances so far? I’d say that’s a great investment.

As for Cavalieri, I can’t tell whether that’s a good buy or not, as he’s not been given sufficient games to show whether he has succeeded or failed.

You’ve simply lumped all their purchases together to point to your “what a waste of money” theory, which I think you are also splitting hairs like what you’ve said Tomkins has done.

I prefer to subscribe to LB’s “look at the big picture” approach when judging Rafa’s performances so far. Like LB, if we can see Rafa has regressed and not progressed, I’d also want him to leave.

Sorry I made a factual error in the last post. Ngog has made 43 appearances, not 30. But 1 goal in 4 games for a young player still isn’t a bad record.

200 mill spent
Thats just over 30 mill a year
now if he could have spent that while keeping bellers Xabi Crouch and Riise you could have a go at him if you want
But co’mon he’s had to sell those lads among others to make that money
add a few players he really wanted …..Alves and simao
and now you see what Rafa is really capable of and the team he wanted to build
Anyway if me aunty had balls she’d be me uncle but she doesn’t
some good posts there LB

Timmy nice disclaimer at the end of your post but since you put a fool proof guide about ”how to bang the fat bird without anyone knowing” in one sentence we’ll have to make our own judgement about that one right?

I really think its a very bad idea to lose Rafa at this stage of our development. This is his team and i really want to see him see our his vision.

Anyway forgot to say Thanks for the blog Gerry

Slainte

Over and out

Digger/Arthur how can you both say it doesn’t matter whether it was net/gross spend? Of course it matters. This season hasn’t been good enough not by a long chalk but is it indicative of Rafa’s reign?

Take taggart as you both admire him so much. He couldn’t live with the Chavs when they outspent him and had a decent manager, just being a decent manager isn’t enough. He got back on top by spending a bagful of cash and the chavs got rid of mourinho. I’m not knocking that becuase you have to spend the cash wisely.

All managers make bad signings, that’s the way it is but Fergie/Mourinho can afford to make bad signings because they get the money back to reinvest when they ship out the bad player.

Fergie wasted 30 million on berba. Does it matter? No because he gets to spend whatever it takes to get it right.

so how can you say it doesn’t matter? Arsenal play beautiful attacking football, with the team Wenger has built on a shoestring they’ve got no where near the league. They might win it this season but it’s taken wenger how long from his last great team to rebuild, when he already had the foundations? 5 years and there’s no guarantee he will win it this year.

To be truthful if you don’t win the premiership who cares if you come 2nd, 3rd, 4th? it’s the same reward.

blueshite 3 points behind and in the best form of any side chasing 4th!! have a look at roma they were near the bottom of the league before christmas their
now 2nd and in with a shout for the title no money spent, same team new coach new ideas.

Digger: one thing about the Barry pursuit you forget is that a certain Steven Gerrard was very vocal in his backing for the pursuit of Barry. Now do you really think Rafa wanted Barry and to sell Xabi? Or could it be he wanted Barry for Left back/left wing/cover for midfield? Do you think Rafa would have liked to sign Barry and keep Xabi? I think so. Does taggart/rednapp/mourinho/wenger/macini/hughes/
o’neil/ have to sell to buy? or can they add to the quality they already have while shipping out the duds?

guinessdrinker lets sign their manager then.

Ya know what Ken, I do. I do think Rafa wanted shot off Xabi so hecould get Barry. He spent the Summer hawking him around Europe for 16mil thankfully without success. As for the shipping out duds and adding to the squad the other managers do, isnt that selling to buy or reinvesting? What? Only Rafa has to do that? Ok, maybe he gets less, or recouped cash disappears, so if I was Rafa I think I’d be spending my initial investment a little more wisely. 08 shoulda been Arshavin. 09 shoulda been schneider. Imo.

We’re covering old ground anyway lads. Ultimately we’re going round in circles on this man and I’m sick of it. I dunno why Tomkins brings this stuff up again. Maybe he’s fearful, suspects the worse and is getting his defence out ahead of the curve. I dunno. Its an old drum being banged again. I dont think I’ve ever known a football manager to divide fans so utterly and completely. Yes, those who feel Rafa is the man hold sway in here but outside I’m not so sure. Critical Summer ahead.

Digger, Dossena £7m, Riera £8m, Keane £20m. Fair enough, those signings have proved bad ones. But where Tomkins ‘splits hairs’ is that a club like Spurs or any other well run club would allow a manager to sell those players and use the money to re-invest. The summer of 2008 may give you nightmares but for me it’s the summer of 2009 that gave me nightmares. Money was brought in and we couldn’t use it to buy players. That for me is more worrying than buying a few players that didn’t work out.

Ferguson bought Veron, Djemba Djemba, Kleberson and Forlan for a combined fee of around £50m. None of those signings worked out but they got rid of them and were able to reinvest. The manc board didn’t tell Taggart “sorry, too late, you had your chance there is no more money now!”

Spurs bought players that didn’t work out and were able to sell them off and buy replacements. Players such as Hutton, Chimbonda, Kabul, Kanoute sold and replaced. When Redknapp wanted to buy Palacios the club didn’t tell him he had to sell Jenas or Huddlestone first. He sent Keane away on loan and asked to bring in Gudjonsen. Nobody told him that he had enough strikers and why not keep Keane as he cost £16m to bring back. When he wanted to bring in Krancjaer nobody told him he had Bentley who cost £15m and he needs to be sold first. No mate, the Spurs manager is backed! That is the difference and is why their squad cost £50m more than ours and why they are 4th and in the FA Cup semi final.

When Chelsea bought players such as Tiago, Fiererra, Shevchenko, Crespo, Del Horno – combined fee £80m. None of them worked out but the Chav manager was able to keep reinvesting in the squad.

ALL managers make bad signings however Rafa has little margin for error. Even worse than that if he sells a player that didn’t work out he can’t even use the money to bring in a replacement. He can’t even atone for the error. In layman’s terms he is up shit creek without a paddle. If he leaves he’ll be alright but we will still be up shit creek without that paddle.

Now if anyone can’t understand the above concept and seriously thinks that it is just more excuses then I’m done on the subject. A lot of Liverpool fans are fucking deluded thinking a new manager with fresh ideas with an attacking philosophy will come in, bring a ray of sunshine, lots of goals, better results and the PL trophy. Ha ha bloody likely.

Who said anything about a premier league trophy? Sure soccernomics says thats citys or chelseas for the for-seeable future. The reason Spurs are 4th and in an f.a cup semifinal is cos their squad cost 50mil more? Jesus christ bro…. I thought the reasons for that were we couldent beat Reading, Pompey and Wolves. Guess I was wrong eh….delusion is a terrible thing alright. I swear ta fuck I wish Rafa was given 50mil this Summer.

We are indeed going around in circles and the opinions are so entrenched that nobody is changing their stance anyway. No matter what they are told. This is my last post on the subject.

I think that a large portion of the Rafa doubters refuse to consider the possibility that there will be no improvement even if we bring in a new manager. They refuse to believe the reality that the club is unable to be successful in its current state. It’s easier to believe that a change of management can take us to the promise land. Something to believe in. A romantic ending is still insight if only we get in a good manager with a fresh attacking philosophy and a top quality network of scouts.

I wish the above were true. I used to think the above were true and I used Arsene Wenger as the reason why as a couple of years ago his team were challenging for the title while playing great football. In my opinion he is the best manager in the world with the best scouting network but even he cannot win a trophy in the era of the big spenders. He has had a couple of seasons where he has got close to winning something such as a Carling cup final, CL final, 3rd in 2007-08 – 4 points behind champions. This season they are close and will probably miss out again. Ultimately though there will be no cigar in my opinion until he can compete financially.

So in my opinion even if you have a manager of the calibre of Wenger or Hiddink you still will not be successful with no dough. Now consider the fact our club is hardly an attractive proposition for a manager of that calibre and you’ll realise that it would be even more difficult and unlikely that we’ll be successful.

The most important thing this summer is our ownership/investment situation and then the board. RBS want £100m by July. Think we’ll be buying any players if we don’t get investment? Either we get investment or we’ll have to asset strip. Torres, Gerrard and Mascherano would bring in over £100m and keep the bank happy. Rafa would probably walk. Then what? Hiddink or Mourinho will be falling over themselves to manage us? Mcleish or Hodgson will have us finishing in the top 4 playing great football?

The Rafa doubters seem to ignore the financial plight of the club as if it is a red herring and doesn’t matter. A side issue that the Rafa apologists use as an excuse. I wonder if it will still be a side issue when we lose more players, get a new manager and he hasn’t a pot to piss in.

you’ve got to take your hat off to ‘appy ‘arry for making those half time changes and changing the course of the game, which is exactly what i’ve been criticising rafa for not doing in recent posts. if things aren’t going well, don’t wait 70 minutes to bring someone on. make a positive change while there’s still time for that player and that tactical switch to have an effect on the outcome of the game. not that rafa makes big tactical switches, it’s always reira for babel, babel for reira, or yossi for either of them. sorry, but that shit pisses me off much more than rafa’s transfer dealings, which i do have some sympathy with him for.

going right back to a post by kenny #122…

“Sambo: You need to check your stats mate. I think you’ll find Rafa is the number one manager to affect games with his subs. According the stats man mr Tomkins.”

this is what pisses me off about tomkins and his followers. in other words “forget about all the football you’ve been intently watching, these stats are all you need to know”. i’ve spent the last few years shouting at the telly for rafa to make positive changes from the bench when they are clearly needed. my opinions are based on what i’m watching, not cold statistics with no context. no doubt those stats reflect babel’s goals as sub when he’s come on with the game already won and belted in a cracker. i don’t remember him saving too many points for us with those goals.

i’ve got a lot of respect for rafa for some of the great signings he’s made and the wheelings and dealings he’s been forced to make to gradually improve the team. i’ve got very little respect for his in-game management and his ability to communicate on a personal level with players on the fringe of the team.

as for rafa’s style. i don’t really care how he plays it as long as we win league games and progress in the cups. i’d be happy for us to be a frustrating, impossible-to-beat team of stiflers if it means we get back on top. rafa’s style is only annoying when an attacking approach is clearly needed, and the tried and tested defensive formation runs out all the same. it plods away for 70 minutes, and then babel makes an appearance, followed by a couple of others who have no time to settle into the game.

i’m for rafa staying, and i think tomkins is an important purveyor of stats to combat the tide of shite and lies that spews from the media, but both of them get on my tits as well.

Glad yo are carrying the touch LB I cannot be arsed and I am too busy at the moment. Great comments and spot on. Must say Gerrard is a pale shadow of his form last eyar. I cannot work out if he is still carrying a niggle, not fit or worse.

Digger, Aitch was right you know. You don’t debate anymore you just use sarcasm and short shrift responses. Now I know why he can’t be arsed debating with you. It makes no fucking sense. I have written out a long post explaining the situation and all you do is pick out the £50m part and use that to belittle my point. You are being ignorant mate.

Spurs are 4th because they have been able to win more matches than us, they are 4th because they have their best squad of players since I have been watching football. When was the last time they had a long cup run AND a successful league campaign? What – the money they have spent is a coincidence? We could get 70 points and still not get into the top 5 whereas a few years ago it would be a shoe-in. What the fuck is our failure to beat Wolves and Pompey got to do with Spurs likely getting 70 + points in a season? The point is Spurs are a vastly improved side and so are City and the fact their squads cost way more than ours is the reason why they are a threat to our position. More so than our failure to beat Pompey.

You should be able to understand this point without me having to explain it to you like you are a 5 year old. Use your intelligence mate, understand the point and debate it like an adult. Otherwise don’t fucking bother.

Fair enough LB. Let me ask you this then before we finish up. Do you think after 6yrs of building and shaping this team, putting his stamp on it tactically and philosophically, outlaying 200mil, that this season is acceptable? That we should be content with the mediocrity that passes as football from his team? (Mediocrity is my best attempt at diplomacy). LB we’re all rightly concerned about the future but that shouldent excuse away what we’ve seen this season imo.

some good posts here lately by LB, Digger + Sambo to name but a few.

yes peoples views have become very entrenched now and nobody is really all that willing to back down. That’s cool.

My personal take on it is that shite owners or no shite owners we should have done a lot better with the players and squad that we have had this year. If I knew for a fact that this season was in fact just a “blip” I’d be more than willing to give Rafa another year. But the fact is I don’t think this is a blip – I think he has lost Gerrard, Carragher and maybe even Torres’ respect. He’s alienated our only natural left winger, his actions two summers ago sealed the fate of our most creative midfield influence in Xabi Alonso and despite being in charge for 6 years he has still yet to sign a decent left back!

His man management style leaves a lot to be desired. It seems to have worked for the first 4/5 years but now we’re definiely seeing a backlash and is affecting the team’s performance.

In my view – Xabi Alonso’s departure affected the whole team’s morale – I could see something was very very wrong during the pre-season matches ( and I never normally give a a shite about those matches) and we’ve never really recovered since. Xabi’s departure was caused by Rafa’s gamble in trying to get Barry. But we all know why he went for Barry (a far less effective player than Alonso) – Alonso’s desire to be at the birth of his son – hardly an unreasonable request

So, to sum up. Yea Rafa has had to be clever with how he uses his budget and as LB pointed out, unlike Fergie and Mourinho he has not been able to replace the duds that he has purchased. But where he has not be so smart is how he has managed the people during his reign (Warnock, Keane, Alonso and now it seems Gerrard and Carragher)

I think this may be more than just a blip

No not only Rafa has to do that but only Rafa has to do that out of the managers of the big clubs. Digger how much cash did Rafa get over the last 3 transfer windows?

You’re hilarious spending a little more wisely?

I think you’re wrong digger about Barry so we’ll agree to disagree.

LB I’m gutted mate. Genuinely deflated. I dont know what to say. Sorry if I offended you in anyway. Thats all I have right now.

That is a good post Sambo! And that is what pisses me off about Rafa he is loathe to make positive substitutions before 66 mins. And more often than not when he does he’ll just replace the left winger with another. Compact, controlled football is not my cup of tea but when you are getting results as a fan you won’t argue with it. When you lose regularly as has been the case this season then frustrations boil over. Tomkins does go over the top with the stats and some fans will tell you your own eyes are fooling you when you see negativity on the pitch. Rafa getting criticised during an awful season is bloody well to be expected and is absolutely fine!

What gets on my nerves is the notion that by him leaving and us getting a new manager will suddenly change us into a successful side again. Without money? How? A new manager usually has a short term affect on the players. After that they go back to their normal level. New managers like to bring in their own players, bring in their own coaches and change the philosophy of the training and playing style. I don’t see how that is possible with our club in its current state. There is no people in the boardroom with football experience. No chief exec, no chairman, the owners know fuck all about the game. We have a commercial director and a managing director who seems to be there as an accountant just to bring in investment. So it begs the question who on earth would be bringing in a new manager? This part of the debate is never ever touched upon by fans who want Rafa out so I will start treating it with the contempt it deserves because it is nothing more than fantasy football.

Actually Sambo I don’t wish to sound cocky but Tomkins stats are based on subs who have affected the game positively. I’ll give you an example so my point is clear on what I mean. Remember it’s just an example of what I mean not the definitive. Gerrard got subbed aginst Everton a couple of seasons back and his replacement Lucas won a penalty which won the game.

so Sambo here are your toys you just threw out of your pram

As regards our style of play this season, well I don’t know anyone even the Rafa apologists who are saying we are happy with this.

Digger if Rafa had of got 50 million quid this year I think it would have made a big difference.

Arthur – Do you think Rafa wanted Barry as a replacement or as an addition if he had a choice? Hindsight is a wonderful thing because actually Barry was playing out of his skin and Alonso had had two very average seasons. Barry had forged a good midfield partnership for England with Gerrard and Gerrard was banging the drum for us to go and sign him. Barry might have also been a very good left back?

Digger, #266 again we’ve gone over this over and over and over.

This season is not acceptable. At all. I have never said that it is. BUT there are circumstances as to why that is the case. Actually let me go back to the 6 years shaping a side etc.

6 years is long enough to get your ideas across on your philosophy of how to play etc. Success though requires more than just an amount of years and buying and selling players. To build a team to get sustained success it has to be added to. You have to add a lot more than you take away. This is why I used Spurs as an example. They sold Berbatov, Carrick and Keane and bought about 12 players that cost between £10m-£16m. Even though they sold their 3 best players they were able to build a squad by adding a lot more than they sold. Rafa in his 6 years has never had that luxury. Tell a lie – when he bought Babel, Torres, Benny – I think it was that summer. Our net spend was around £40m. I think. I can’t remember the exact figures but the point is in that summer we were able to build to an extent. This lead to us being able to compete for the title. That was the pinnacle of Rafa’s spending. So you can say that we went from finishing 5th in 2004/05 to coming within 4 points of the title in 2008/09. As far as I am concerned Rafa has already imposed his philosophy on the squad. He turned a UEFA cup calibre squad into a squad getting to the last 8 of the CL consistently and turned a team that finished 30 points behind the champions into a league title challenging outfit.

What happened though is that the spending or level of investment in the team came to an abrupt halt towards the end of 2008. We sold Keane and couldn’t use the money to bring a replacement. We still managed to make a surge for the title but this papered over the cracks. The cracks were that we were broke. We all looked forward to a summer where we would make that final step. Even Rafa did. But I think he got hamstrung. Use your sense guys. Rafa signed a contract and sent scouts to Valencia to talk to David Silva. He made noises that we could very well break our transfer record. All of a sudden that talk stopped and he was talking about finding the right players for the right price. Next thing you know it’s clear for everyone to see that we have no dough.

As Tomkins said if you stop moving forward you move backwards in this league. Especially with Spurs and City building very large and good squads.

So from year 1 to year 5 of Rafa’s tenure I would say it was a success. It may not have had the football of the late 80s or what Arsenal and Barca produce but everyone has to admit that from 2004-2009 we fucking well improved beyond measure.

It’s between year 5 and year 6 of his tenure that has been screwed mate. We have a weaker squad than we did at the beginning of 2008/09 and I don’t see how you can blame Rafa for that. We have a weaker squad than we had when we began last season and clubs such as City, Spurs and Villa have improved their squads. So we find ourselves in a scrap.

We lost Alonso who was our best player last season. We replaced him with a guy that wasn’t fit. I think Rafa has to take some blame for this part. We’ve had our most talented players out injured. Gerrard has not turned up this season. Had he been close to top form we’d be comfortably in the top 4 in my opinion. We’ve been shocking at the back due to injuries and poor form. We have had a drop in quality at right back because in my opinion Arbeloa last season is a better player than Johnson this season. Our left back issue is Rafa’s fault in my opinion because Dossena was a distaster and we have had to rely on a kid to carry the load.

The loss of Keane has not hurt us. I know this will piss off the Irish lads here but in my opinion Keane is finished as a top level performer. Redknapp sending him off to Celtic and then bringing in Gudjonsen tells you that. Rafa must have seen this at Melwood which is why he wanted rid and to recoup money on him asap (money that disappeared).

The losses of Alonso, Arbeloa and Hyypia hurt us. It is a matter of opinion as to whether Rafa had any control over the departure of these players. However you’d think any manager of a big club would be able to use all the transfer monies recouped to replaced these key first team players (maybe not so much in Sami’s case). If we were run like Spurs we’d have had money to get 6 players valued between £10m-£15m to replace these 3. OR £40m to replace Xabi not £17m. We’d have had more than £1m to replace big Sami and I’m sure if we had liquid £18m for a right back we’d have gone elsewhere and got a better player than Johnson. We’d have spent £20m on a striker/attacking player to replace Keane. That’s only my opinion though – I can’t prove it as fact.

Mate, this season, year 6 of Rafa’s tenure has been the perfect storm but I wouldn’t use it in isolation as a reason to change manager.

LB: alonso was replaced by Aquilani an injured player – but apparently we payed a 4 million down payment. Tough to replace alonso with 4 million quid. Just a little point to add to your post which I think was excellent.

As regards a left back, well Rafa tried to get in a decent one, Dossena was an Italian Intrnational, he didn’t work out so Rafa got rid but as you say didn’t get the money to replace him. Barry anyone for left back?

That’s right Dossena didn’t work out. Sell him and don’t get no money to replace him. Spurs buy Chimbonda don’t work out then they buy Hutton don’t work out so they buy Corluca or is it Essouo Cotto or whatever his name is. Chelsea buy Ferreira it don’t work out. They buy Del Horno it don’t work out. They buy Bosingwa he gets injured. They then buy Ivanovic.

Nobody says Mourinho fucked up buying 2 right backs that were flops.

@ LB comment 272# – makes absolute perfect sense to me – spot on!

My biggest fear now is that the blue noses might overtake us! They are only three points behind us!

Digger, check your email. Sorry for losing my rag. You are right this season has polerised (fuck the spelling) opinion!

LB: stop backing down you big poof

It’s all very well having an opinion and backing it but just writing sarcastic responses to a long written though out post can be very frustrating.

Kenny, very frustrating indeed. But I hate cyber battles and arguing on the bloody internet. Afterwards I feel like a bit of a wally.

LB: I’m just summising as I don’t write out long well thought posts.

Anyway one thing is clear we are all gutted about this season after coming so close last season, that 50 million quid digger was on about could have made the difference.

The thing is if we had the dough – say £50m to give a manager then it would be more cut and dry. We could judge Rafa properly and if we think he’s not done the business we call for his head and realistically expect the club to be able to bring in a top coach, give that new coach some money and move in a new direction.

The most frustrating thing from my point of view is that we can’t make a proper judgement on Rafa and even if we did we don’t have any real cause for optimism if we got rid of him.

The thing is this season could well be a blip. But what if we stick with Rafa and 10 games in were in the same position. The season almost down the pan and stuck with a manager that players have seemingly no faith in. Is it just a bad season brought on by our horrendous injury list and pathetic owners airing their dirty linen in public and all the other shite that’s going on around the club. Thats the risk the powers to be have to weigh up at the club. Maybe there is no decision to make given the fact that Rafa is due a massive pay out if he is sacked.

I think this summer is going to be a huge one for the club. I’m glad that it’s not me that has to make the decisions because fuck if i can figure out why we are playing so dirt this season. If you look at our first eleven players it aint half bad at all. Torres, Stevie, Aqua, Mash, Carra, Reina, Johnson, Benny Onion, to name but a few are all class players. When you look at that in the cold light of day there is no way players of this calibre should lose ten league games in a season. Though how many times have we been able to pick from these given the injuries. So if we can add another quality winger with pace in there and add a fully fit Agger & Skrtel then fuck me it aint half bad.

Just look at the scums midfield: Park, Fletcher, Carrick & Valencia…. we are at least on a par if not better than that. So there has to be hope for the new season. With the chav players all getting on a bit and scum relying on ape boy its not all doom & gloom. Provided those dirty yank bastards dont sell our family silver to pay off the debt in the summer!

So after sitting on the fence so long i think i may have a stake in my arse rather than splinters i think if its just a blip and injuries to blame we should stick with Rafa. If he’s lost some of the dressing room though I dont think there is any way back from that.

Oh and what a result from the bitters last night. That was a huge result for us.

Very true LB.

I made an analogy about a car in an earlier post.

Imagine your family wants a brand new BMW but you can only afford a second hand one, fortunately you know a bit or two about motors, so you wheel and deel and gradually upgrade, the only money you have been given is £10,000 but your new Beamer costs £30,000. You have to make up the shortfall by selling and buying wisely slowly upgrading your make and model. You can use the money/profit made by selling the car but you also have to run the car daily putting in the fuel and replacing any parts that break down with profit made. In the mean time your family/kids are getting impatient and moaning that they want a brand new beamer.

In effect that’s what Rafa has had to do. Yes he’s had six years but in the meantime some of the players who were good enough have aged/broken down and had to be replaced as well as upgrading other players who are not good enough. Rafa has had to sort out the Scouting system from top to bottom and the academy. whether he has done a good job or not in this department will only be seen in a couple of years. Some parts/players are not top quality but have had to be made do with because there are more important areas/issues to solve.

Now he has got to the stage were last year he owned a 2 year old beamer which he sold and thought he had made enough profit to finally buy his brand newie only for the missus to say hang on I want that £3,000 profit you made on selling the car to put in a new fitted kitchen. He had to quickly go out and buy another car with the same money which appeared alright but has proved to be not as reliable.

This for me is the situation Rafa is in.

I like the analogy Kenny! Especially the bit about the missus wanting 3 grand for a new kitchen.

Artful dodger, the manc midfield on paper doesn’t seem all that does it? On grass it plays well mind. Its Rooney and then Valencia that has made the difference for them this season. Rooney especially. 33 goals in 39 games all competitions. He has stepped up! Which is what is required when you want to win top honours. Your better players have to come to the party. Same with Chelski. Drogba 30 goals in 36 games. Lampard 18 goals in 40 games.

We can go over to La Liga. Ronaldo 22 goals in 24 games. Messi 34 goals in 39 games.

Even the best clubs in the world need their best players performing if they are to be successful.

Which brings me to our best players. Gerrard 9 goals in 37 games. Torres 18 goals in 28 games. Put simply whether it be lack of form or fitness that have not fucking well done the business for us have they? Especially Gerrard who should be provided with a mirror and the lead single from the Janet Jackson ‘Control’ album the next time he wonders why we haven’t done anything this season.

There is a reason certain players get £120k per week and it isn’t so they can chill out with the physio on every Saturday or sulk on the pitch.

You didn’t see Rooney crying when they sold Ronaldo. No, he said to himself “I’m gonna be the man!”. What did Gerrard say about Alonso? “Boo hoo, now how am I gonna get the ball served on a platter… it’s not fare! Sob sob”.

No bothers LB. I get just as frustrated and feel like a wally more often than not too, believe me. I’m 32 and I’m letting this stuff consume me, what the hell is wrong with me?! Anyway, dont mind me, I was just very disappointed this morning. If I’d managed to alienate probably the most balanced and even handed poster on the blog (imo), the one who covers both sides of the divide with an unjaundiced eye, then I might as well have left it at that. So no biggie mate, just glad its cool!

I have been reading comments from West Ham and Pompey fans. You think we have it bad? Bloody hell.

Did anyone see Drogba’s first goal last night? Absolute comedy from David James.

LB,

Digger just chooses to dwell on the 6 years and 200m spent with nothing achieved, except for the small matter of Champions League and FA Cup as trophies. This is very much like what the press has been saying all throughout this season.

He chooses to ignore the constraints and conditions imposed on Rafa, an interesting one brought out by Kenny, and thinks it’s part of his job to wheel and deal to get to the final goal.

Which is not wrong in itself, except he conveniently chooses to ignore your repeated attempts to educate him on the fact that Rafa has got virtually nothing to spend on, not even selling to buy players, but selling to cover up debt.

Arthur,

I think you have a valid point in saying things are not well in the dressing room. Whether Rafa has lost it remains to be seen.

But I don’t agree with your claims on his man management. Who was it who believed in Mascherano and elevated him from West Ham reserves to Argentina captain? Yes, Masch had been distracted by Barca interest and World Cup qualifying at the beginning of the season, but the fact that he is going to sign a new contract extension is testament of his belief in Rafa. Shouldn’t Rafa be given credit where it is due?

And what about Torres? Even Fergie dared not bring him to the Premiership due to his relatively unimpressive scoring record in the Spanish league. But Rafa believed in his ability and coached him to be one of the best strikers in the world. This opinion is not only mine, but also shared by Torres himself. If you’re saying that even Torres is doubting Rafa, read the press reports carefully. The press has been known to twist words and supplant misleading headlines to send their messages.

He is merely supporting Rafa by telling the owners that they’ve got to invest in better players if Liverpool is to move forward. From what Torres has said, it’s the lack of investment from the owners that have led to their low morale, not the loss of Alonso as stated by you.

And Reina? Our player of the season, and if Rafa has lost the dressing room, I’m sure he’d have jumped ship and not extend his contract. He’s stated his belief in the squad.

I don’t think he has lost the entire dressing room. but I share my concerns with Gerry on this blog about the reactions of Carra and Gerrard. Both of them have not been carrying the team forward with their leadership and playing abilities.

In fact, it seems to me (I hope I’m wrong) that their form is slowly declining with age. Maybe moving them on might be good for the club instead.

I have a bit more time. I thought it was only the over 50 brigade that threw their toys out of the cot and insulted people.

Just one correction that keeps on popping up and that is the 200 mill spent one. No where near it, if I am correct the net spend is around 20 mill per season in 6 years, making it around 120 mill net spent. The same level that Moors afforded us. In the last few windows we have actually made a profit (to repay debt off course)

The biggest single spend was 47 mill LB when the Twats refinanced and it has gone down to clawing money back ever since.

We have to remember that like it or not the injuries have caused a major disturbance this year and knocked the rhythm and confidence along with it.

I cannot for the life of me explain why Gerrard is so far off form, it almost looks like he is still carrying a injury. Even his performances for England have not been full of fire and brimstone. His passing and control have been less then stellar and he rarely beats his man at the moment and most times looses the ball when he tries.

I think this is the biggest single factor, after all the usual or should I say unusual happenings this season that we have discussed. Is he saving himself (not wanting to get injured) for the world cup? Where is the Gerrard that used to fly into tackles and pump himself and the team up?

I don’t buy the Rafa has lost the dressing room shit. Regardless of what you think of the manager you get stuck in, Liverpool will always be bigger than any single individual and you play for the badge not the Manager.

The system and philosophy is still the same one that made us play the way we did last year it’s just not happening personal wise this year for various reasons. I do believe its just one of those things that what can go wrong did and hopefully we will be back to our best next. To talk about getting rid of Rafa is so way off the mark for all the reasons that LB has pointed out and a few others but we are still in with a chance of finishing in the CL spot and still in with a chance of a European Cup. All that despite the huge handicaps we have had this season. Things need to be rationalized in the cold light of day and appraised according to your means and available resources.

Yes its been hard to be a positive supporter of the Reds this year especially with what happened last but know is not the time to destroy because I truly believe it will get worse if we do, not better. We need to have the courage to see it through and to stick with Rafa.

It would be good if we could discuss Gerrard’s form. Some people reckon he has lost faith in Rafa’s methods, others think he is sulking because we are not competing this year and haven’t added any quality to the squad since last season. Others think it’s the injuries/lack of fitness. I have also wondered if he has stuff going on in his personal life that is hindering him. I have also considered the fact that he is past it now. Like me hero John Barnes between 1991 and 1992 he was unrecognisable as a player. Still a good player post 1992 but not in the elite like he was pre 1991.

So what do you guys think? He is 30 in May and has had a number of injuries. Reckon he is past it or is it just a pro longed blip?

I can’t imagine he is not interesting in playing his best because he don’t like the manager anymore. If that is what is going on then my opinion of him is that he is a cunt. I hope this isn’t the case.

Is it just frustration?

Has his wife dumped him on the sly?

How long will we afford him all these excuses. How long does his magnificent past achievements buy him before we say “Hold on, Stevie’s been shite for too long now?”

I must say had if I was sure that any money brought in from sales would go back into the transfer kity I would be tempted to do with Gerrard what we did with Keegan and Rush. Sell him to a big European club for big bucks.

Taggart did it with Beckham, Wenger with Henry, Dalglish did it with Rush after a mediocre season. I wonder.

Then you have this point of view from Jamie Redknapp

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1259700/Jamie-Redknapp-Rafa-Benitez-needs-stopping-messing-Steven-Gerrard.html

Jamie Redknapp has to be my favorite ex-player idiot. Not even Souness would come up with some of the drivel he spits out.

Jamie’s thought process: Stevie’s had a really bad season. Well, let’s blame Rafa for it. After all, you can get away with more or less anything when it comes to criticizing Rafa, so why not? People in general are stupid enough to believe what they hear and read.

Oh, I’ve had enough of it. I generally read and odd “neutral” football article about us now and then, but mostly I stick to the brilliant Tomkins Times these days (well worth paying for, in my opinion) and Kopblog of course.

Kenny, I’m sorry mate, your analogy is great, but its not quite right…
“ow he has got to the stage were last year he owned a 2 year old beamer which he sold and thought he had made enough profit to finally buy his brand newie only for the missus to say hang on I want that £3,000 profit you made on selling the car to put in a new fitted kitchen. He had to quickly go out and buy another car with the same money which appeared alright but has proved to be not as reliable.”

You see… the wife didn’t just take 3 grand for a new kitchen…
…she took another 5 grand for new windows…
… and further 5 grand for new furniture…

… so you were back to lookin for a clapped out Ford Capri again….
… but then… you did find another 2 year old BMW… but it was one with a blown engine…
… but your mate told you “no worries, la! I can fix that right up and gerrit running again in no time.”
… only he wasn’t able to do that, was he…

There… that’s a bit more accurate.

Here is the numbers breakdown in the race to the 4th position. I hate that Liverpool are in this position but ‘it is what it is’ and the commentary and opinion regarding why Liverpool are in this position has been well documented and discussed on this site and many others. So I will just talk about the numbers. Here is how it breaks down by (Team) (Potential Point Total) (Games Left Against The Top (Games Left Against The Top 3):

(Tottenham) (79) (4) (3)
(Man City) (77) (4) (2)
(Aston Villa) (75) (3) (1)
(Liverpool) (72) (1) (1)

This means if Liverpool win all of their remaining matches then Spurs need to drop 8 points, City need to drop 6 points and Villa need to drop 4 points. I know this depends on Liverpool winning all 7 remaining matches but like Gerry always says … keep the faith.

Spurs still have to play all 3 of the top 3 so they are sure to drop points in those 3 fixtures. Likewise with Man City since they have two games left against the top 3. Villa only have 1 game left against the top 3 but they also have tricky match ups with City, Spurs and their massive derby match with Birmingham City.

Liverpool only have one match left against the top 8 which is a visit to Anfield by the Chavs.

I am still holding out hope this will happen. I can’t wait until September 2011 for our next Champions League match.

It should say …

Team
Potential Point Total
Games Left Against The Top 8
Games Left Against The Top 3

think you can now stick the bitters in that list 3 points behind us and in cracking form. wake me up when the nightmare is over.

LB, I don’t thinnk you’ll find any clearer discussion on SG than you will on Rafa.
Heels will get dug in just as much.

I’ve been somewhat critical of SG all season… and even parts of last season.

Some still believe he’s a great Captain. I think he’s the worst Captain we’ve had in decades!

But that is because I have a different definition of what a Captain is, or should be.

Nobody is denying his monumental driving efforts of the past, but I’d argue he would have done that anyway without the armband… and maybe someone else having it would have actually helped him and the team by providing one other player as a driving impetus.

This season and last, I believe the armband has hindered the team (and him) rather than helped.

I think the only reason it was taken away from Sami Hyppia was coz of the big-sulk, nobody-wants/appreciates-me, bullshit SG pulled after the CL Final.
(a contract wasn’t enough, he had to be given the armband to “show the love”)
And I think that was a mistake.

But I also know there’s a lot more to that debate… with opinions either way.

SG has a big decision to make this summer … coz he WANTS that PL medal, (for his home trophy room) so…

If Rafa stays… does he give him 1 more year?
If Rafa goes… does he give the new man 1 (or 2) years?

His only options are…
1. A move to Scum (and be reviled like Owen?)
2. A move to Chelsea (not quite the attractive proposition it was a few seasons ago?)
3. A move to Arsenal (no guarantees there?)
4. A move to Man City (big -time crap-shoot?)

None of those are clear cut decisions… none guarantee him a PL medal and all have their downside… but that only leaves, accepting you’ll never have a PL medal in the collection and opting instead for a La Liga or Serie A medal.

And in my opinion…. all of that is weighing on his mind… and could go some way to explaining his body language and shit form.

He’s not just been Mr. Sulk this season, he looks well-pissed off… and its too easy to blame that on Rafa losing the dressing room.

Dottie – I hope you meant September 2010 not 2011

LB,
you might be closer to the truth than you realise #288, i live in the town where SG was born and bred and the rumour here is as it is all over Liverpool, that they are parting their way’s although still living in the same house for the kid’s benefit for the time being.
So i think that could be the reason for his form at the moment.
Keith i think i am one of the over 50 brigade, but you wont find me insulting anyone anymore,
i have to watch my blood-pressure these days.
Digger spot on #284, i think most of us are feeling the weight of Liverpools season so far and to err is human.

Arthur, I’d take a season out of Europe (and I’m including the UEFA in that, (though I think if we win it, we are automatically berthed?) if it forced the owners out (of course no guarantees that’ll happen, but more likely without Euro dosh, I would think?)
And I wouldn’t mind less Euro travels/distractions, for the team, if it helped them mount a serious domestic treble assault.

Realistically we’ll end May with one of the following

1. 4th and the UEFA Cup
2. 5th and the UEFA Cup
3. 6/7/8th and the UEFA Cup
4. 4th and NO UEFA Cup
5. 5th and NO UEFA Cup
6. 6/7/8th and NO UEFA Cup

Obviously 1 to 3 are “least acceptable failures”, rather than success, but at least a medal would keep some of the players happy. 4, 5 and 6 don’t bare thinking about… but such is our reality.

Maybe its just coz I don’t buy into the whole spoonfed “CL is the be-all, end-all” sky-partyline, that I don’t think it would be the worst thing in the world if we didn’t qualify for it.
I’m not suggesting for a minute that I’d be happy about it, but I wouldn’t be slitting my wrists either.

Lot of logic there Aitch #298
i mean Real Madrid have hardly lit up the CL for a few years now so their fans are not a happy lot, also look at the mighty Juventus, knocked out of champions league then beating fulham 4-1 on aggregate only to be knocked out of that comp as well 5-4, i said before christmas that i wondered if it would be a good thing if we crashed out of the CL to see if we could shift G and H but having said that i did’nt think we would struggle the way we have lately.

The only thing about going out of the CL is that its not a given that it would be a year before we get back in.

A change of ownership would be the least we`d need as spurs and city are going to keep on spending.Villa too mind.

I would sacrifice not qualifying if it meant we got rid of H&G and some of the cling-on lifetime supporters since 2004.My son is a life time supporter since 2003 but he was born then so he`s sound.

Donal #253 Guilty as charged!!

Aitch, Steven Gerrard has been Captain of Liverpool since October 2003. So I’m guessing he was skipper before, during and after the c.l final. A contract wasnt enough he had to be given the armband to show the love? What the?? Dont take this the wrong way Aitch but….what are you smokin?! I mean we know you dont like the guy but your just making stuff up mate! Anyway, not being pedantic or sarcky before we go hammer and tongs but that just aint right lad Poor ol Stevie, catching imagined stuff too now lol!

Cheers Redman. It has been a gut wrenching season and its weighing on us all emotionally so understandably tempers get frayed, mine included. And I know I’m arrogant git at times, believe me, I try arrest it. I read elsewhere lately a poster saying ‘whatever this season is I just wantit to be over and whatevers coming to begin’ and I think thats where we all are at this point no matter what our individual opinions are. Good results for us last night, roll on Sunday.

Dig,I`m sure Aich can answer for himself but it looks to me that he was saying Stevie was refering to 2003 in his book which was after the CL final.

…..i think

On that subject.I`m just going to throw something out there.
Back in 1981/82 Bob Paisley,after a very bad run of form from the reds took the captains armband off a one Phillip Thompson.Alocal lad from Kirby who months earlier had captained his beloved LFC to the European cup in Paris.
The team wasn`t playing well and Thompsons form suffered.Paisley decided to take the captaincy from Thompson,not to punish him for his bad form,but to relieve him of some responsibility and pressure.He handed the captaincy to Graham Souness and the reds went on the best league run to an end of a season probably ever done.

They went from 12th in december to winning the title.The burden had been lifted off Thommo`s shoulders and Souness excelled in the roll.Thommo and the team got their form back.The rest is history.

A renowned stroke of genius form the great Bob Paisley.

Thommo might not have seen it at the time but he does today.

Now i think you all know where i`m going with this.

Stumbling blocks in my opinion.

1.Media wankfest,new stick to beat Rafa with.

2.Stevies pride.Might feel Rafa has it in for him.

Granted an easier decision to make back in 1982 than now with all the money,exposer,player power etc nowadays.

Would this be feisable??

Thoughts lads.

Tim what shit did Stevie pull in May 03? Wasnt his first summer of drama in 04 after the Euros? And then again after the c.l final in 05 when Parry extended Hamanns contract on the Thursday after the final but neglected to sort out our Skippers after he said on the pitch ‘how can I leave after this?’! Then Parry pisses off on his hols leaving Stevie twisting and Merseyside freaking! I dunno mate, but as you say I’m sure Aitch will clear it up and duly leave me eating humble pie!

I was just saying i thought he was refering to 2003.

Neither here or there anyway,should mind me own

In my opinion with what gerrard has done for us over the years he deserves more than what is being written in here.

He has single handedly carried the team in most of the last 8 years or so.

At one stage was playing at a level far beyond the rest of the team.

Most players would have moved on to play for teams that could satisfy there ambitions.

At the start of the 2005/2006 season he made a decision to leave but was put under extreme pressure to stay some of it decidedly dodgy.

So he stayed and was made promises of liverpools ambitions to invest in the team and get back up there.

With the signing of fernando torres it looked like his ambitions could be met a anfield.

Then we had the perfomances at the end of last season,considering his time spent at liverpool it was his first serious title race.

He and the rest of the world thought after beating the double champions home and away plus the brilliant points total we would invest and move on to the next level.

Then we have this season………..

I think this season has been the final straw for gerrard if you grow up at liverpool you expect to challenge for the title,and when you see teams like city and spurs overtaking us it must hurt him deeply
YNWA

LB

You posted some suggestions or possibilities for Gerrards poor form.

Only 12 months ago he was probably the best player in Europe possibly in the world on form at the time.Even the great Zidane lauded Stevie as the best player in the world at the time.

So i don`t think he`s past it.He has still so much to offer and i can`t put my finger on it either but i`m sure thats not the senario.

timmy,

You have a point here. I think his drop in form is one major contribution to our bad performances this season compared to the last, even more than the Alonso effect the press is claiming.

I hope you are right that he still have lots more to offer…

Okay, first of all, my apologies for #295, it was inaccurate.
I was… as was so gleefully pointed out… wrong… regarding the circumstances and timing under which SG received the armband.

In my defense, I was not “just making stuff up”, but was typing that post dead quick this morning, coz I had a meeting to get out to (trying to earn enough dosh to pay the electric bill, so I can keep me internet connection going and spend time pissin about with you lot… a lads gotta have his priorities!)

I had begun to type what was turning into a missive about the time period 03 to summer 05 and SG’s flirtations with the Chavs… as a thought-out and considered answer to LB’s post… and thought… oh fuck-it, this is taking forever and I’m not being nearly enough inclusive of all sides of the story… and I don’t have the time to be so…
So, I quickly deleted half of what I’d written and failed to proof read what remained, before posting.

So yes, it did appear I was on crack… but did you really have to go accusing me of having an agenda against him… simply coz I don’t think he’s beyond reproach?

I shouldn’t have to say this, but for the record… one more time (coz this isn’t the first time I’ve weathered such an accusation)… I do not dislike SG as a person… I don’t fuckin know the lad.
I’ve had the opportunity to rub shoulders with celeb actors and rockstars in my life… some of them are right tits, some of them are dead nice, and some of them are somewhere in the middle.

All I have to go on as far as SG is concerned is his autobiography and a documentary that was made about him a few years ago… he seems like an alright lad, but to me he also seems a bit full of himself… so he wouldn’t be top of my list of players to go have a drink with.
…But that doesn’t mean I don’t like him or have something against him. Maybe if I met him, I’d change my mind… I dunno.

But fuck personality… In my opinion SG’s game over the last 5 years or so, would have been just as strong had he not been given the armband… and perhaps it might have helped him rather than hindered him, as a player, if someone else had born that responsibility.
But then again… maybe not?

We’re pretty much stuck with SG as Captain now though, coz the only other candidates for it are…
Jamie Carragher… and that would be a bold move indeed since his current form could suggest he’s on a fast track to not playing every week… (and don’t misinterpret that, he’d still be in my first choice back 4)
… and Pepe Reina… and I’m sorry but goalie-Captains are just a bad idea!

Dirkish seems like he has the right temperament and his English is good, but for all his admirable workrate, his play just isn’t of consistent enough quality to be Captain.
Mascher’s English just isn’t good enough.
I don’t think we have any other candidates.

I get why people think SG is a good choice for Captain… I don’t particularly think he’s shite-on-a-stick with the band… I just don’t think he is a “Good” Captain.

As for his game… There is no doubt he has been instrumental, and in some instances, the catalyst for many of LFC’s recent greatest moments.
But its not like he hasn’t and still does get the plaudits for that.

I know some are asking the question, “would we be better off with the money” but I can’t imagine any of those people actually think he’d be easy to replace.

But life went on without Keegan… it did without Dalgliesh… it did without Rush… and a host of others… so it will if SG parts ways with LFC also.

The thing is, SG’s poor performances over the last 2 seasons can’t be ignored… any more than the “single-handed match winning” ones of the previous 5 or 6 seasons.
But again, do not misinterpret that statement.

In the same way that LFC, as a whole has under-performed this season, SG has done so individually.
And in the same way that there are A LOT of reasons for the team’s under-performing… there are probably a lot of reasons for SG under-performing.
And… likewise… just as I believe this season to be the anomaly and not the norm, for the team, the same can be said for SG.
He’s had a crap season… but he’ll as likely to come gangbusters next season, as not… or even for the remainder of this season…
…which is why, unlike some…
… I’m not particularly worried about the overall state of LFC on the field.

Now, as for LB’s question… It’s a tough one…

timmy and ax… I don’t think LB was suggesting that SG was “past it”, I think he was merely posing the question.

Injuries are a funny thing. Sometimes, a player can never recover from a series of little nothing niggles. Sometimes they can endure what you’d think would be a career-ender and come back as strong as before.

I did my cruciate ligament (in my knee) at 36. I was told I’d never play again and would be lucky if I wasn’t on crutches when I got older.
I was back playing, and just as competitively, within 12 months.
3 years later I rolled my ankle in a pothole warming up for a game… a totally innocuous thing… the slightest of injuries… but I just couldn’t get it right.
Every time I came back fit, I’d tweak it again… that was my last season and I had to hang up the boots.

But the thing about a fit SG is, that as much as he has been a talisman for us, and can raise his teammate’s game… I do think sometimes, it seems like all roads need to go through him during the 90 and it can make other players a bit subdued.

One example: Taking corners is not exactly the best part of his game… but he insists on taking them… unless there’s 5 minutes left on the clock and we need a goal… then he’s waving others over to the corner flag and taking up a position in the box.

For the record… I hope we don’t sell him.
I hope he gets back to form and leads the charge and ends his career at LFC (with or without that PL medal… though obviously preferably with it!)

But having said that… if his head and his heart aren’t in it, coz he “wants” that PL medal and will do anything to get it… well then… ???

Fair enough Aitch. Apologies if I implied you had an agenda. I certainly know how that feels and should have known better. I could have written the line ‘do you really have to go accusing me of having an agenda against him simply coz I dont think hes beyond reproach?’ myself. And have done many times. But I think your off the mark with your ‘last 2 seasons’ comment. Lest we forget, Stevie won the football writers player of the year award last season and did so banging in 24 goals. Selective amnesia mate?!

I have been thinking about the Gerrard conundrum and yes he has never been the most vocal of Captains and has always relied on his ability to lead by example. This very obviously has not happened this year so it compounds his deficiencies as a Captain. Carra on the other hand has also had a shit season but you can still see the passion and desire for success despite his drop in form.

I think the frustration in the Owners incapability to back Rafa in the transfer window, coupled with the horrendous start and injuries this season have lead to Gerrard’s drop in form. After coming so close last year the fall from grace is more difficult to take from a character of Gerrards nature and ego.

Throw in a world cup, with England in with a realistic chance of competing for it, his own lack of fitness and injury concerns. So he pulls out of those 50/50 because we are only competing for 4th place. I find it difficult to understand that thinking but maybe he has given upon on this season for some reason. However I still do not think he has produced for England this year as well.

The older you get the longer it takes to bounce back from injury. His whole game is on bursting energy and high adrenalin. I think it is a combination of all of the above, throw in home troubles if that is true and you have a very distracted and disillusioned player, whose head will drop the minute things don’t run for the team. Oh here we go again syndrome which is exactly what we got when Manu equalized.

I for one don’t think Rafa has lost the dressing room at all, Masch has come out wanting to stay, Pepe and all the others that have committed their future long term to Liverpool. We have to be careful of reading too much into a shit season. The statement from Rafa that the established stars have to step up to the plate says a lot. Yes we are not playing well, yes this season is a fuck up but shit happens, lets knuckle down and finish well and prepare for next year with a Cup and 4th place in the bag.

I think we have to chalk it up to one of those things and we can over analyze it and look for a deeper hidden meaning when the simple truth is we have shit owners who did not back Rafa in the market despite nearly claiming first prize last season. We got caught with our pants down with the horrendous injury list we had because our squad was too thin due to our two Twats, our confidence and rhythm has been knocked for a ball of shit and we are struggling to recover and that has lead to the frustration we are seeing from our more established stars because they know how close they where last year and how far away we are this year. Throw in a World Cup they want to make sure they are fit for?

Sometimes the simple answer is the truth.

Right on cue – sorry to post a SS link mind!
http://www.skysports.com/football/world-cup-2010/story/0,27032,12098_6054868,00.html
The article doesn’t say too much, but at least he acknowledges the fact. Now Stevie, how are you gonna rectify this? I can’t slate the guy too much because he has been absolutely invaluable to the Reds over the years,
Redman, hope you are right about the problems he is having at home (geez, that sounds a bit harsh from me) & I hope that this is the reason for his poor form, rather than hom losing faith in the Gaffer.
Very good posts by the way, especially from LB!

on the subject of stevie as captain, to be honest i’ve never really thought he was particularly good at it. i know everyone has a bit of a beef with john terry, but he’s a fuckin magnificent captain in comparison. his love for his fellow players seems to be reciprocated (including bridge by the way, before he fucked his missus). he grabs his teammates by the head before and after the games. i like that in a captain. no doubt someone is going to respond by asking “why the fuck are you talking about that dirty, cheating grandmotherfucker? lets stick to our own team, you chelsea-supporting twat”, but whatever. i know what i see, and stevie just doesn’t fire his teammates up or impose himself in the role like terry (or any good captain) does, and i was actually happy when JT got the england job over our boy. unlike some of you in here, i am also a massive england fan. i only mention terry because he throws gerrard into stark contrast as a motivator. lets face it, if we can’t compare our boys with those from other clubs, we might as well be living in a chinese pipe.

gerrard is a sulky lad who seems to choose his favourites in the side and have little time for the others. you catch footage of players (often lucas) looking over to him for praise after a neat pass, as he stalks off without acknowledgment when the move comes to nothing. don’t get me wrong, the reason they look to him for acknowledgment is obviously because he is hugely respected and admired by his teammates, which on the surface makes him an ideal candidate for captain, but he doesn’t seem to spread the love and encouragement.

these comments are based purely on observation and speculation. maybe he saves his encouragement for the showers, who knows. but i’d prefer to see masch in the role. ok his english might not be the best, but i reckon it’d kill 3 birds with 1 stone.

1)stevie gets to sulk as much as he likes and feel free to show his obvious disappointments.

2)masch as an international and club captain would really warm to the role.

3)it would give masch more license to address referees with calm authority rather than red-card-courting petulance.

only my opinion. stevie is a world class player, but a pretty average captain (when compared to good ones).

as for his own horrendous form this season, i’ve got no explanation. maybe relieving him of the captaincy would do a lot of damage to an already fragile attitude. maybe it’d free him up to play like we know he can. who knows.

I haven’t read the last few posts yet. But a couple of weeks ago I emailed David Maddock from the Daily Mirror asking why the Man Utd green and gold campaign got so much publicity while the Liverpool SOS campaigns hardly got a mention. I will paste the email convo shortly…

Got to run … as usual, but just wanted to acknowledge the effort and thought and time put into the posting on this blog yet again.
Gerry if you are going for more awards this year remember this particular blog.

I have given my thoughts on Stevie .. “to be or not to be” Captain before as well as above somewhere so I won’t repeat myself but in the back of my mind I was wondering if there was not “something else” going on in the backround.
If so I’m really sorry for the lad. It’s hard enough to keep any relationship going in this day and age, be a Dad, let alone in such a high profile life with a WAG member. That is tough, tough. Been through the martial wars myself, no fun at all.
The sky sports interview is the usual bunch of cliches but I do find it curious that he sees himself as having been generally in pretty good form!
For me he’s running the very big risk of losing his place on the England team (on the left of midfield if I’m not mistaken). If it was on current form he would not get within a mile of the squad let alone the team (In My Opinion).

Hi David,

I hope you are well. I have been think about this for some time and thought I would send my thoughts to you as I think you are one of the better football writers around at the moment.

I have seen the MUST Green and Gold campaign a lot in the national media lately however nothing at all reported about the goings on with the Sprit of Shankly campaign against Hicks and Gillett. To me it seems there is very much a media bias. The Spirit of Shankly (SOS) have locked the club owners out of their own stadium. They have kept the owners in Anfield after games in protest. There has been a number of peaceful demonstrations near the ground on match days. Yet all that is reported are things that make SOS seem like a group of thugs.

DEBT, LIES, COWBOYS

I bring your attention to this report from the Liverpool echo http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news//2010/03/05/david-prentice-sos-warning-which-all-liverpool-fc-fans-should-heed-100252-25966103/

Why are stories such as this not reported in the national newspapers? LFC is one of the biggest clubs in the world. You’d think a story such as this would get national attention. You’d think the owners of one of the biggest clubs in the world being locked out of their own stadium in protest would be reported on in the national media. I fear the national media will only pay attention when LFC get into a Leeds Utd situation. People need to be made aware of what the real issue at LFC is rather than read anti Rafa Benitez articles every week.

kind regards
Joseph
——————————–

Joseph,

Thanks for your email, and sorry for the delay in replying, no excuse but I’ve been snowed under, and kept meaning to get back to you when I could.

I take your point entirely, and I’m inclined to agree that the campaign against the americans doesn’t get the coverage it deserves.

I would say though, it’s not always because of bias as such, but more – I think – because the liverpool campaign has being going on much longer, and therefore suffers from fatigue in the offices, because they think they’ve heard it before. I’ve written several things about it, and they’ve been cut right down, not because my editors want to promote the united campaign more, but because I’ve written so many stories on the same subject.

One other point, the united campaign also gets coverage because they came up with the very simple, effective idea of the green and gold scarves, which is a symbol that the papers can easily pick up on – and there is nothing more that papers like than simple symbols. It helps of course that goldenballs wore the scarf, another simple symbol the papers love!

Anyway, I’d be grateful if you kept me updated with any news

Yours

David

David,

thanks for the reply, I am sure you are very busy.

I guess the green and gold is a good simple idea. As Liverpool’s original colours are blue and white I can’t see the Anfield faithful dressing up as Everton fans any time soon though. Regarding the green and gold though – I do find it ironic to see a Man Utd fan wearing the green and gold scarf but also wearing the red shirt at the same time with the corporate sponsors logo on it. Quite a paradox.
Regards,
Joseph

Joseph,

Ha, they’re both very good points! Pity about the blue and white, but I have thought for a while that a simple action that hits the club in the pocket the average, relatively disinterested fan can still grasp easily is the right way to go, because the americans will fear economic action above all else. The green and gold doesn’t do that at all, because as you say, it’s worn over a corporate shirt, and probably bought from some spiv who’s cashing in on a trend, but it is an effective symbol.

One other point by the way, you mention benitez, and I take your point that there are very definitely much bigger issues affecting the club, but I would argue now that the ownership and the manager’s performance have to be taken separately. It’s clear he hasn’t been helped at all by the circumstances, but even under those circumstances, liverpool should be doing much better, and I feel that sometimes that fact is being overlooked because of the wider issues, as important as they are.

Yours david

David,

I think the ownership issue and the manager’s performance go together hand in hand. I have never known a club to be successful while it’s leadership from the very top is so poor. I also get into a lot of arguments with fellow LFC fans regarding what the team ‘should’ be achieving. Because we are ‘Liverpool’ people expect us to be challenging for the title rather than battling it out for 4th place. The way I look at is – we have no devine right to be doing any better than Spurs or Man City. The current Spurs squad cost £50m more than the current Liverpool squad. (I wont even mention Man City’s). And people wonder why Spurs have 4-5 top strikers while Liverpool only have Torres and Ngog. It’s not a coincidence that City and Spurs are above Liverpool at the moment. They have vastly improved their squads over the last few transfer windows while Liverpool have spent nothing. Actually we’ve brought in more money than we’ve spent over the last 3 transfer windows. We’ve stood still while others have progressed. I think what seperates Liverpool from the likes of City and Spurs is that our best players Torres and Gerrard are far superior to what City and Spurs have. Take those 2 players out for large chunks of the season and we are ‘dragged down’ (for want of a better phrase) to the level of a City or a Spurs.

Liverpool could get over 70 points and still finish 6th. When was the last time a team got 70 points and didn’t finish in the top 4? I doubt it has ever happened. So while Liverpool have no money to invest in the playing squad (and when I say money I don’t mean selling to buy, I mean actually building a squad which is keeping your better players and adding to it with quality). They will struggle to get into the top 4 no matter who the manager is. That brings me onto my next point. What manager is going to want to come to Liverpool with no money to spend and so much uncertainty with the owners? Can you see a Hiddink or a Mourinho coming to a club with sky high expectations but no money? I can’t. So if Rafa leaves or is sacked do we get a superior manager? I doubt it. We’d probably get a Mcleish or a Roy Hodgson. Good managers in their own right but would they to any better than Rafa has done in his 6 years? I doubt it. Because to better Rafa would be to win the title. Rafa has achieved everything else.

I don’t understand why Benitez gets so much criticism from the British media. If Harry Redknapp over the next 4 years wins the champions league, the FA Cup and finishes in the top 4 every season he’ll be lauded as a genius. Even though he’d have probably spent a lot more money than Rafa. Maybe it’s because culturally Spurs shouldn’t be doing well and Liverpool ‘should’.

Joseph

Joseph I agree with much of what you say, and my own opinion is similar in many ways. Certainly, benitez has a very good record, and deserves to be able to make a mistake under these circumstances, without it costing him his job.

I would say though, that the most effective way of evaluating investment in a team is wage spending. The stats show – exactly – there is a direct correlation between wage spending and final league position. Liverpool are the fourth highest wage spenders at the moment, that is why they’ve got gerrard, torres, mascherano, johnson and carragher – all on massive wages – and not spurs, who couldn’t afford to pay even one of those. City will soon overtake liverpool in terms of wage spending so liverpool will be fifth and basically should finish fifth. This season they have under performed, last season they over performed. Next season they will need their manager to over perform if they are to finish in the top four.

My view is that benitez has generally over performed and should only be replaced if they can find someone better, and as you rightly point out, with the ownership as it is, it will not be easy to attract a top candidate.

David

some excellent posts here – LB – loved that correspondence you had with that journo

anwyay am dying with hangover at work so Ill be brief:

a) Gerrard’s been poor this year but would love to see him stay

b) I actually think Reina would be a great captain – Zoff, Shilton, Casillas have all done very well – but can see people’s reluctance

anyway I’d make the change during pre season

LB, thats top drawer stuff mate. Fair play to ya. And Maddock for getting back to you. Seems to be a stand up guy.

LB – joseph ay?
i wonder what arthur g. posis’s real name is.

mine’s Ignatious.

digger’s is probably Slobodan.

anyone else typing shite at 1:30am? no? right. i’m off to bed.

hahaha

my true identity is……….

Kevin

I’m…… Batman.

Superman once wrote on the wall: Batman is a wimp.
The next day Batman wrote: Superman is Clark Kent

Nice one LB

Hopefully Maddock will educate his colleagues and the likes of Redknapp can learn a thing or two. With regards to the Gerrard issue,I will like to see how he performs next season before I can make up my mind as to whether we should consider moving him out of the club.

Having said that, I agree with those who don’t think he’s a great captain. I believe Reina will be a better captain. Imagine the headlines should Rafa decide to take the arm band from Stevie. One thing is clear though, Stevie should stop taking the corner kicks immediately.

What are the chances of Everton nicking fourth?.90 % want to see Aqui start – no more injury excuses.

Any predictions for Sunday dudes?

I’m saying 3-1.

I think we’ll win on Sunday, the away games will be crucial ones (Birmingham, Burnley and Hull) – i think we’ll have to win at least 6 of the 7 left and still have to hope for some luck

Oh Digger, do fuck off lad.
What is the point in apologizing, claiming you can relate coz you’ve been in that position… and then accusing me of having selective amnesia?

If someone hands you an olive branch, its a peace offering… if they then twat you in the side of the head with it, it is NOT!

As for the player of the year award… the majority of people in here, at the time, were of the opinion that Xabi Alonso had a far superior season, and should have gotten it last year and that SG won it on his reputation, rather than his performances.

As for his goals… well for someone who reviles Tomkins for trotting out stats, you sure jump to them when they support your point, don’t you?

Admitedly they helped us bag important points that were instrumental in us securing 2nd last season. There’s no question about that.
Goals, to coin a wanky Yank expression, are “scoreboard baby!”

But if that’s your philosophy, then you can’t be complaining we’re too defensive and you want pretty football.

Discounting for a moment, his goals from the penalty spot… how many were scored in the last 10 minutes after he’d been a passenger for 80?
I can think of a few off the top of my head where we effectively played with 10 men for 80 minutes, only for him to come alive and get the winner in the final 10.

I’m not discounting the importance of that.
I’m not going to sit here and suggest I wasn’t pumping my fist in my best Andy Gray “you beauty” impression, when each and every one of them hit the back of the net.
But I am viewing it in a larger context.

You can call that selective amnesia, or just making shit up if you want…
I happen to think you’ve perhaps made it clear, that I just have a fundamentally different philosophical approach to life, let alone footy.

Sorry for that lads, but it had to be said.

Anyway, top post LB. Very interesting exchange with David there, and nice to see some objectivity in the mainstream media!

As for this weekend…
I’d fancy us to win comfortably… but it depends which team shows up… Jeckyl or Hyde (…and if Bruce remembers to bring the beachball )
(Did you know, Sunderland have the fucker in their trophy cabinet???)

As for the march to May…
Well, on paper, you’d have to think our chances were slim to none, but the way results have been going all season, it really is anyone’s guess how the top 8 will line out, as well as the bottom 6 (Portsmouth excepted and that’s really only coz of the points deduction, or they’d be right in it.)

What gives me hope are Spurs fixtures:

Portsmouth (home)
Sunderland (away)
Arsenal (home)
Chelsea (home)
Man Utd (away)
Bolton (home)
Man City (away)
Burnley (away)

I think that by the time Spurs play Bolton we’ll be in 4th place.

By the way City and Spurs have a game in hand on us but it is against each other.

Yeah but with our luck LB, they’ll draw 3-3 and the FA will mistakenly give them 3 points each!
(along with a commemorative beachball and an icey-hot soaked elastic bandage wrap!)

Don’t Citeh and Villa have to play each other too? I might be making that one up though…. you know what I’m like.

I think Citeh and Villa are the bigger threats… mind you, since we are our own worst enemy this season, the biggest threat to us not grabbing 4th spot is… LFC.

So I’m guessing #331 is’nt an olive branch Aitch?! Jeez man I was just suggesting maybe your memory was a little hazy on the very fine season Stevie had last year considering you were deeming him guilty of ‘poor performances over the last 2 seasons’. I dident realize you think he won the writers footballer of the year award on reputation and that discounting penos, those goals scored in the last ten minutes of games were preceded by 80 minutes of anonymity. Now that I do know this I can see see how you would think that Stevie was poor last season and that you indeed do not have selective amnesia.
My apology for implying you had an agenda stands Aitch. It was seperate from and independant of the selective amnesia comment so there was no intention to twat you upside the head or whatever else you thought! I just thought you were being a tad harsh on Stevie and made a couple of points illustrating why. The apology was genuine and I hope you accept. (Warning: joke coming up that could be taken the wrong way, please dont.(I swear I cant believe its come to caveats on jokes)). And from now on I’ll just remember to not use the words ‘selective’ and ‘amnesia’ when refering to anything in your posts ok?!

Aitch just to clear up last night i knew LB wasn`t saying Stevie was passed it i just picked out that point out of a few possibilities LB posted for Stevies poor form.

Yes LB spurs do have a terrible run in and if their record against the aforementioned top three is anything to go by then it dosen`t bode well for them.

Since when has this season went to script anyway,so i`ll not write them off just yet.Crazy results this season.

Villa for me,are just too inconsistant and draw too many games against lower opposition.They don`t seem to have the knowhow to put teams away.Wolves 2-2 at home last week and sunderland 1-1 midweek underlines their inconsistancy.Also MON very seldomly changes his staring 11 too much so the season may be staring to tkae its toll on Villa hopefully.

Man city,well again,capable on their day of overcoming anyone in the league.4-1 at the fridge a few weeks back shows what they can do.Again,they`re another who,when they get too close to fourth spot,start to feel the heat and stumble.The blueshite`s victory was a massive result for us.Also they`ve to go to the emigrants(as gerry calls it),entertain the mancs(can`t believe i`ll actually be willing them on to win for two games to the end of the season) and i think your right Aitch,they have to meet villa again so…

The same weaknesses can be said for LFC,inconsistancy and all that but we have one thing the others don`t.Thats we`ve been here before,they as teams haven`t and hopefully it stands to us.Also we have Torres scoring goals although he looks frustrated lately he`s still bagged 5 in his last three games so more of the same please nando.

Stevie,plate stepping up time for you too lad.Actually its plate stepping up time for the complete Holy Trinity,players manager and supporters.

Just for a bit of fun lads click on this link.You can forecast the scores from now to the end and the league table is updated as you go.Try to be as honest as you can.I know its hard with the mancs but try anyway.

LB you try and see where the table is by the time spurs play bolton.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/eng_prem/predictor/default.stm

Timmy,

That’s good fun.

First time I did it the good news was Arsenal won the league, bad news Everton finished 4th, one point ahead of us so I went back in, changed one result for them and we finsihed 4th. Goes to show they are a threat.

If we can pick up 5 wins and 2 draws, 17 points, I think we will finish 4th. Most people would say draws away to Birmingham and home to Chelsea but things don’t always go that way.

Might seem like a tall order but with all our players back it’s like a cup run and Rafa is normally good at those.

Yeah, I knew that tim… I only mentioned that coz you and ax were the only ones who took up the gauntlet…
I thought there’d be more comments on LB’s question, and could see how it might deteriorate into an “is he past it or isn’t he” debate, when that wasn’t LB’s question…
but SG is a bit of a hot-button issue, so I can see how some lads would be reluctant to express their opinions on it.

And Dig, Actually, this is getting tiresome, so I think it would be best for everyone in this blog, if I went back to not commenting on anything you write, and not directing anything towards you…
And for you to stop commenting on anything I write, or directing any comments to me.

I have Arsenal winning the league with 88 pts. Liverpool 4th with 70 pts. Spurs and City 68 pts and Villa 64 pts. Everton 60 pts.

Aw c’mon Aitch, and hows that gonna work then? A debate commences and I agree or disagree with you or vice versa but we cant express this because you’ve got the huff over an off the cuff dig that perhaps you were being a tad harsh on Stevie and thus had selective amnesia?? Come off it mate. For christ sake if we all took the hump everytime someone dared to rib someone else there’d be no fucken Kopblog!! At the risk of incurring your ire further, and with all due respect, (christ its’s like being on eggshells here, look at this fucken preamble), grow up mate. I took your ‘do fuck off’ on the chin. Fine. No problem. But I’m not gonna go and do a Stevie(!), pull a strop and go incommunicado over it. If you wish to, so be it. But I cant promise that I wont comment or engage with you if thats the way the debate is going. Come on Aitch, we’re not a bunch of Kids here mate. Surely you can see how farcical it would be for a debate to be in full flow, both of us involved, indirectly and inevitably – given we’d be debating the same topic – commenting on each others thoughts, yet we cant address each other directly because one of us has got the hump?? What are we here, the 2 family members at the dinner table who are not on speaking terms requesting through an intermediary ‘could you please tell Aitch to pass the salt’?! C’mon mate, we’re better than this. I hope you reconsider your stance. Truly. Come on man, after some of the things that get said in here, this, this was the final straw for you? As I say, I truly hope not.

Arthur #267,

Please read this.

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/sport-news/football-news/2010/03/26/rafa-benitez-made-me-a-better-player-says-liverpool-fc-s-javier-mascherano-55578-26117536/

Now Masch goes on record to say Rafa has improved him both as a player and as a person. So much for bad man management.

Wow some great reads lads,tell the truth it might be a good move to take the armband of stevie, i thought reina might be a good choice bit in all my years of playing when the shit got tough , every time i played in a team when the goalie was captain…it just didn’t work. My choice there fore barring injury could be dagger, now im not saying i’m sold but i no the lad has the goods to be a great player and it would do his confidence the world…any thoughts???,

Regarding sunday i am praying for some aqua action…and to be honest i’d pair him with lucas..i dunno if rafa would drop masch but lucas passing has been better than masch’s of late.

On a purely light golden moment i had today was with the missus and my little girl at the park , kickin the ball in the sunshine for my dog to chase no one around….along came a couple walkin as they came closer i noticed he had a pool shirt on and gave im a wink and said nice shirt bro…my wife rolled er eyes and he smiled and said could there be any other i said fuck no…and ye’ll never walk alone brother..the women were laughin…but we both new no fucken matter whats goin on with our team…theres a kinship and fuck it felt good!!, sorry for the fairy dust boys.

Sorry lads, but I have to address that.

There you go claiming the high ground again Dig. Its fuckin futile this.

Look I don’t “have the hump”. I’m not angry at you. I’m not upset you called me names. I’ve got a thicker skin than that, but I’m fuckin bored with it now.

Its the context in which you do it all that is just simply bothersome because it completely negates any meaningful discussion.

There has been no discussion as you claim it.
I’m not the only one whose comments you belittle, though for some reason, you do seem intent on ignoring the meat of my posts and just twisting one sentence to have a pop at me.

You claimed SG had a good season because he received the player of the year award.
I proposed that SG didn’t deserve the player of the year award… that that accolade should have gone to Xabi.
Now you might not agree with that, but you can’t just discount it out of hand in that slightly cheeky, little plucky tone you adopt, because it’s not just my opinion, pulled out my arse for this conversation.
There were several discussions over the summer regarding this very point and the majority of Kopblog posters were of the opinion that Xabi deserved it far more than SG did.

You didn’t even bother arguing my hypothesis that SG was a passenger in a lot of games last year. Yes admittedly he got a goal to secure a 1-0 or 2-1 or secure a point. But maybe if someone else had been playing in the preceding 80 minutes, they might just have provided the impetus that got us an early goal, thereby enabling us to win comfortably 3-0.
Sure big maybe, and of course maybe not. But the idea isn’t batshit.

But its easier to sarcastically twist my words against me and paint me the fool, than discuss those possibilities, so instead of arguing that point, you twist my words back against me, all the while adopting the most congenial tone, to try to make me look the fool.
Its clever lad, I’ll give you that. But its boring.
It insures I’m always on the back foot and makes me appear to have, as you claim, just taken a nark.
Just because you type “with all due respect” doesn’t actually mean your post contains it. You constantly do that, then the last sentence invariably suggests that I’m purile, biased, or now it appears, immature.

I do not wish to waste my time, and perhaps more importantly everyone else’s, constantly coming back in here, fucking up Gerry’s blog, to clear up what I said, after you’ve twisted it to suit yourself and make me look the arsehole.

I’m not a child, and we’ve had enough discussions in the past, proper discussions mind you, for me to know you aren’t either. But you no longer seem willing to engage in such discussion anymore. Its easier to just accuse me of being childish and then you have the upper hand.

I don’t object to the content of your posts for the most part Digger… just the tone.
So give the “aw c’mons” a rest.
You wanna discuss something, by all means, I think I’ve proved to everyone’s boredom that I’ll do that in ad-fuckin-nauseum detail.
But discussion is not what you’ve been engaging in.

Nice one Ax choice – 341

Mascherano is not the first to comment on how Rafa has made him a better player. I believe someone has mentioned Torres as an example. Torres’ record in La Liga was average at best but he’s now one of the best strikers in world football today. Gerrard scored an average of 5 – 8 goals a season before Rafa arrived, now he’s scored an average of 20 a season (except this season).

I remember the criticisms Rafa got when he signed Crouch. Crouch didn’t score a goal in his first 3 months at Anfield but Rafa stuck with him despite the crticisms (including those from Jamie Redknapp). It was clear that Crouch had become a better player by the time he left for Pompey. Yet Rafa gets criticised for his ‘man management skills’. You couldn’t make it up.

Riera complained that he hasn’t been playing and Rafa didn’t talk to him. He (Riera) forgets that he’s been injured for most of the season. Moreover, if he really wanted to know what was going on, he should have looked for a door with the sign ‘manager’s office’ instead of crying to the media like a little bitch.

My team against Sunderland would be:

Reina
Johnson Carra Agger Insua
Babel Mascherano Gerrard Benayoun
Aquilani
Torres

I think Rafa will start with Kuyt instead of Babel and Aquilani deeper than Gerrard.

Here is a stat for Burgerman

Liverpool have won each of the five games that Alberto Aquilani has started in the league this season, conceding one goal.

This is interesting although most of us know how the tramp works.

http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2010/03/27/dominic-king-sympathy-from-alex-ferguson-is-the-last-thing-liverpool-fc-need-100252-26118180/2/

LB,
as an ex-mirror reader i think i remember Meek writing for them, or was it another tabloid, having said that i only read the mirror.

Fair enough Aitch. Point taken. I’m relieved you responded and theres communication at least. Good stuff mate. LB, loving that team. Would definitely be my pick too. Whats the chances we’ll see it though? Slim I’d say. We’ve a full squad apart from Skertl right?

Aurellio out too.

LB, I’m going to church to pray that your prediction for the way it will finish (#339) proves to be correct. That’s just how I dreamed it too!

Cheers Tim. I’m guessing Rieras out too! Still, not bad all things considered. I know he’s only scored once this season but anyone any ideas on whos got the man marking job on beachball tomorrow?! Seriously, I cant see Sunderland doing the double over us. Especially at Anfield. A draw would be an equally unthinkable outcome given their away and our home form so I’m going with 2 nil, Torres brace. Remember the belter he scored at their place last yr? Or was it the year before….Anyway, a gem.

Ya that was lasy year Digger,first day of season.Set us up for good start to the season.

Anyway i`m all for an attacking line up tomorrow.Torres is on goal scoring form and with 16 goals in just 20 premier league apperances probably has one of the best goals per game ratio in the league if not the best.

Bruce will send them out to try upset our game and try stop us gaining momentum form the start.The players must not let that happen and should be driven form the off.High tempo from the start.

I`ll go for..

Reina
johnson,carra,agger,insua

Aquallini,masch

maxi,gerrard,benny

Torres.

I think he`ll start Kuty but for me his recent performances do not warrant a start.Good to have on bech with babel and lucas.All could do a job from the start.

An early goal could set us up for a 2 or 3 goal win with a bit of kuck.

Villa are being turmed over big time at the Bridge 5-1.

Chelsea 7 Villa 1

Spurs beat Portsmouth 2-0 and are now 7 points and several goals ahead of us, having played the same amount of games. Man.City are at home to Wigan on Monday night.

We need to beat Sunderland tomorrow big time.

Tottenham have some very, very difficult games coming up and that could be our saving grace because the same applies to Man.City, although Tottenham have the toughest run-in of the four teams playing for fourth place.

Aston Villa have the same points as us now having played the same amount of games. Chelsea thrashing them meaning our goal difference is plus 7 better than Villa’s.

At this moment in time, the bookies will have us as third favourites out of the four to finish fourth. Boy do we need to win tomorrow!

I like your team selection LB..
Chelski thrashed Villa Today..
Another good reason for Oneill never to be considered for the Managers job ay Anfield as some have suggested in the past..
His teams ” Bottle ” it at the end of the season..
All this talk about his team full of English players…Load of crap if you ask me..

Torres to score the opener Tomorrow..
Time for Stevie G to step up and lead by example.

Attack Attack Attack

bayo #344,

your point is the same one that’s been made hundreds of times in here… “rafa must be a good man-manager because gerrard and torres say he’s made them better players”… they’re talking about tactical management and how they personally have been shown how to make more of their game. no one can argue with that.

i think there’s an important distinction between tactical management, and motivational management. torres, gerrard and masch shouldn’t need that much motivating (although quite frankly stevie could do with a rocket up his arse these days!). the players who need that most are those on the fringe of the team, and a manager’s job is to keep these players, who do spend a lot of time on the bench, happy, hungry and fighting for a place, be that through dialogue and encouragement, or more importantly by taking opportunities to give them minutes on the pitch. this is where i see some failings.

don’t get me started on crouch again please! he played him continuously through his shaky start, and then left him out in the cold without so much as a run-out AFTER he’d become the better player you describe. how can that be described as good man-management?

keane was treated the same – although i read an interview rafa gave tomkins where he said that keane never followed his instrutions and basically ran around doing whatever he wanted. with keane, rafa obviously realised pretty quickly he’d bought a player he couldn’t work with, but still, he was left warming up on the side-lines in situations where it would’ve done no harm to chuck him on for the last 15 minutes, and once again was given less time AFTER he’s started to show some signs of promise! weird.

with aquaman… well lets put it this way, if the boss is hoping he’ll get pissed off and go back to italy, he’s going the right way about it… and i wouldn’t blame him. not once has he been given a run of games. if he’s not starting today the writing’s on the wall.

i don’t mean to have a pop at the boss, especially with such a big game coming up, but it annoys me when people dismiss out of hand criticisms of rafa’s man-management just because torres, gerrard, and now masch have said he’s made them better players. i agree rafa is a superb tactical man-manager, provided you’re starting every game and are secure in your position.

i’d choose exactly the same team as you LB. like it a lot! c’mon you reds!

I read all the posts everyday and I like the debates that go on here. I don’t really join in the debates because I am not as good a debater as the good debaters in here.

I really enjoy all the views and arguments. Some are superb, some are sound, some are laughable and some just boggles my mind because the speculations are put forward as if they are the truth from someone who has spent his time behind the scene, rubbing shoulders with the players and Rafa.

Sambo #357,

About Motivational Management. Consider Istanbul 2005, 3-0 down at halftime. Can you not give Rafa even the slightest iota of credit for motivating the team to complete one of the greatest comebacks of all time?

You’ve already given a probable explanation why Keane was treated the way he had been treated, i.e. refusal to adhere to tactics & instructions. On hindsight, it seemed that Rafa had noticed Keane’s decline in form before Harry Redknapp and that may be one reason why Rafa has kept him on the bench so that Harry doesn’t have enough time to notice it.

And about Crouch. You’ve just seemed to ignore the part of Rafa standing behind him and making him into an England striker, but instead choose to concentrate on him being on the bench.

Consider the circumstances then. We had a certain Torres who was scoring goals for fun, and breaking records. I’m sure you can’t blame Rafa for choosing Torres as the main striker instead of Crouch!

Personally I had preferred a Crouch-Torres partnership at that time. I was frustrated then, and understand your frustration. But Rafa eventually chose a attacking midfielder (Gerrard) behind Torres, resulting in one of the best striking partnerships that had for 2 seasons been even compared to Dalglish and Rush. As we cannot tell whether a Crouch-Torres partnership would have been more successful, I’d say that I wouldn’t fault Rafa’s decision on choosing the 2 of them as our main attacking force up front over the Crouch-Torres partnership. In addition, like what FS has said before, probably wages had also played a part, as it seems that Crouch has been paid more in Portsmouth then (and probably now Spurs) than over at Liverpool.

And talking about wages, let’s not forget its effect on foreign players, e.g. Mr Xabi Alonso. Imagine the chance to return home playing for your country’s biggest club and at the same time receiving much higher wages after taking into account the tax structure as well as the exchange rate!

I’m not saying the fact that Rafa had wanted him out in the first place is not a reason, nor the unreasonable demand for him to forgo seeing his kid’s birth for a crucial Champions League game, but I think there are always a few main reasons for anyone wanting to change jobs.

The same goes for Mascherano. Consider the circumstances again: (1) Lousy owners that are sucking all transfer funds (I’m sure Masch is aware of it), (2) Best team in Europe at the moment wanting to sign him, (3) this team is in Spain, speaking his native language, and (4) much higher salary (remember Masch’s contract is just being negotiated now, not then), lower tax rate, exchange rate etc.

So why has Masch decided to stay? I can only think of 3 reasons. (1) Rafa’s man management skills, (2) the passion and support he receives from fans at LFC, and (3) the growing Argentinian presence (currently 3) at the club, which by the way are all signed by Rafa.

Just because Rafa is portrayed as cold by the press doesn’t mean he is a bad man manager.

Excellent match… best performance i have seen since last season. Stevie was alive… Torres was brilliant! Babel worked hard as did Kuyt. Johnson was excellent bombing up front. Agger showed why he will be amazing for us for a long time to come. Pepe was Pepe… Insu did well. Masch played some sweet passes and was awesome! Lucas has done well this season but I think this showed how good we can be with just Masch holding the fort in front of the back four.

Great match. Feels like normal service has been resumed. (yes, I know Sunderland are crap on the road but you can only beat what’s in front of you and 6-0 wouldn’t have been a misleading scoreline).

Loved the commentary that said, “Steven Gerrard’s got them all fired up for this game!”

Brilliant – reminded me of last season.

Babel has been much improved in recent weeks and I’m delighted to see some good from from him.

Keep this up to the end of the season and we will definitely get 4th.

C’mon The Arse for the league.

Did anyone else just burst out laughing when Nando banged that first one in?
Or was that just me?

I mean, there was just no other way to react.
It was out of nowhere… out of nothing.
Not even a half-chance, and inch perfect.

SG not exactly back to his Super-Stevie best, still gave away quite a few passes, but certainly a much improved Stevie, and looking like he was enjoying his footy, which seems half the game with SG, and was just nice to see.

Excellent MOM performance from Masch too. Barely put a foot wrong until he started pissing about on 80 minutes.
Mind you he wasn’t the only one…. We looked desperate to give them a consolation goal in the last 10… a bit of a worrying trend lately…what the fuck is all that about?

But could easily have been 6 or 7 today.

Carra assured. Agger back to his best. Johnson showing some form from his first few games for us. A lot of hunger all over the park.
I didn’t quite have the opinion some have expressed about Babel today. He didn’t do too much with the ball when he had it, in my opinion. But I’ll let him off, coz at least he put in a bit of a Dirk Kuyt shift today, which is always nice to see.

Keep this up and we might finish 4th with a Cup… he said … knocking on every piece of wood he could find!

A very encouraging performance and the best we’ve played since beating the mancs.
Lot of positives from the game particularly the team spirit and camaderie shown.

- Players acknowledging each other for their effort (Kuyt gesturing “good try” from a long pass by Agger I think which didn’t reach him at the end. There a few more of those)

- Players acknowledging their mistakes (Gerrard apologises for his mis-passed and when Kuyt robbed Maxi inside the box).

- Less whinging from the players (Torres was so focused on his footy unlike a few games before)

- Babel was smiling and ran over to Torres after the 1st goal. We haven’t seen that for a long time from Babel.

For me, those were some of the positives little gestures that have big impact to the morale especially during the game. Hope this continues.

Also, Maxi played his best game do far. His touches were excellent (especially the little back flick to Gerrard) and ball-holding were superb.

C’mon you redmen and 4th plus a Cup is within reach!

Aitch, same reaction from me mate – my brother & I were giggling like 10-year old girls when that shot went in. And he is supposedly not 100% fit yet!
Stevie also looked better, and Maxi was great – you can see he has class (if not pace) & he played some intelligent balls. Aqua looked a bit lost when he came on, but it would be good to see him start again. At least Rafa made 3 subs – and not all on the 70 minute mark like his critics keep on pointing out!
YNWA

Also nice to see all the old legends watching the game. Do any of the other clubs get any of their old players turning up to watch? Can’t recall seeing any (besides the odd visit by Cantona to Old Toilet) when I do watch a game or 2 on telly. Is it unique to Liverpool that once you have played for the club, you love them forever?
And also good to see Torres stating his desire to stay at the club.

another good home win against lesser opposition – finally picking the right team and formation and it’s reaping rewards. Still probably too little too late. Having done calculations I think we’ll still need to win all 6 of our remaining games.

Birmingham game is HUGE – they have’t been beaten at St Andrews since sept so if we can get 3 points there on Sunday – we might just pull this off

Fitness permitting, no need to make many changes for the remaining games.1 holding midfielder is enough.

Some of you guys really make me laugh, finally picking the right formation! Who wanted Kuyt in the team today or Maxi for that matter and Aquilani was a must according to the majority of people on this blog.

Sunderland are a poor team! They held the Mancs to a 2-2 draw at the toilet, have not been beaten in their last 5 games.

The reason for the poor Sunderland display was our performance, a performance we got used to at the end of last year. Slowly we are getting back to a degree of confidence, evidence of the way we played. It could have been a cricket score if we took all the chances.

All this from a Manager who has taken us as far as he can according to our experts, who has lost the dressing room according to others. Nice to see Gerrard putting in a decent shift, not great but decent. There is so much more to come from this team once we get back to the level I am sure we are capable off.

Great flowing football, the interchanging and one touch passing was a joy to watch. Still no where near our best, in my opinion, not clinical enough just yet, but great to see what can be achieved and what we have missed all season once we have a fully fit squad with a degree of self believe and confidence.

It will be a very interesting run in and for me Man City will be our biggest threat to a CL finish.

Keith,

They’re just happy Lucas isn’t playing now and we are scoring goals, hence the finally playing right formation remarks.

What many have failed to realise is that we now finally have close to a full team to choose from, meaning (1) we are able to play with different tactics using different players as seen in the last few games, and (2) workhorses like Lucas and Kuyt can get some well earned rest.

I won’t be surprised if Lucas and Kuyt start against Benfica away next week, and then see many scream for Rafa’s stubbornness if we don’t win that game.

beat me to it Keith.

Sack Rafa!

Right formation meaning not playing Lucas/Mascherano in the middle of the park against the likes of Sunderland – who are an average team.

It’s not rocket science

You are being a bit harsh Arthur. I’ve seen some posts on other sites by ‘Liverpool-obsessed’ Manc fans, saying the same thing: we beat a poor Sunderland side. But as Keith pointed out, a side that hasn’t lost in their last 5 PL games. And I would also hasten to add that we didn’t let them play, they were too busy defending from the 1st minute. Even Bruce admitted that we were just too good, and not that they were too crap!

No don’t get me wrong – we were very good – and probably a better team than Sunderland would have struggled against us.

I’m just not gonna get carried away – good to see a very attack minded formation and attitude

keith mate, what you have to realise that the pundits on this blog – who are kind enough to point out rafa’s mistakes as well as always know what team would have won – are the same who suggest retired players be bought, include payers with long term injuries in the playing XI, have no idea who’s fit to play – yet demand that their team formation opinions be treated with respect and seriousness. Joke.

YNWA

Arthur,

Here are the results for the aforementioned lesser opposition.

Sunderland 0 – 0 Stoke City Sunderland 1 – 1 Wigan Athletic Portsmouth 1 – 1 Sunderland Arsenal 2 – 0 Sunderland Sunderland 0 – 0 Fulham
Sunderland 4 – 0 Bolton Wanderers Sunderland 1 – 1 Manchester City
Sunderland 3 – 1 Birmingham
Aston Villa 1 – 1 Sunderland
Liverpool 3 – 0 Sunderland

Doesn’t make that bad reading to me!

It’s amazing what a squad of fit and match-sharp players make. Formations or no formations. As Rafa would say that is a fact!

I was there guys. What a game. This is my first time at Anfield and I prayed we will win. I couldn’t have asked for more. Three goals and Torres scoring 2 and witnessing Torres scoring one of the goal of the season. I was wearing Torres NO 9 Liverpool shirt and told my friend who took me there that I will retire the shirt if Torres scores a hat-trick. Also bet 10 quid that Torres will get the hat-trick. Lost 10 quid but that was the sweetest 10 quid I ever lost. The seats I got was fantastic, 6 rows from the touchline, Paddock seats. After the game had a pint at the Twelfth Man Pub. What a day. I am still 7th heaven.

fantastic first half performance! i thought gerard was amazing. alright, his second half was pretty quiet, but the sight of him surging forward from deep, playing one-twos, getting into the box at every opportunity, and spraying a few passes around from the centre circle was a joy to behold, not to mention little flicks and a general demeanor of confidence and enjoyment in his football that’s been missing for so long. keep him there i reckon. sorry lucas, and anyone who’s been claiming he’s actually an attacking midfielder, but gerrard’s first half today is what an attacking midfielder should look like.

feel sorry for aqua. he looked absolutely desperate to impress every time we had the ball. the trouble is, when you’re desperate to impress you rarely do. i don’t think that 20 minutes is a fair reflection of what he can offer the team. he’ll only show that when he’s had a run of games. kuyt was good though, so no criticism of rafa from me today. he gave 3 players some minutes at the end, and got his tactics spot on from the first whistle.

johnson MOTM for me. great to have him attacking defenders, scoring 1 and setting up torres for another. he’s a great player.

probably the most pleasing thing for me in that first half wasn’t so much individual performances but the attacking team mentality. we were pouring forward in support and the box was always full of red shirts when the crosses came in. a far cry from the sight of an isoluated ngog surrounded by defenders trying to make something happen on his own. i think it was aitch who was infuriated by the fact insua wasn’t supporte when he broke forward against the scum. none of that today. we totally overwhelmed them!

liiiiiiiiiiiiiverpool, liiiiveeeerpooool!

by the way rafalution, what do you mean..

“At least Rafa made 3 subs – and not all on the 70 minute mark like his critics keep on pointing out!”

he made them on 71, 78, and 81 minutes. close enough mate!

sorry… couldn’t resist. not complaining though!

oh yeah, and i forgot to mention agger! great performance from him as well

The 4-1 drubbing of ManU last year with Masch and Lucas in the midfield was obviously a figment of my imagination.

It does not matter what formation we play, if the lads are not fit, full of confidence and gelling things will not go right. Lucas does surge forward plenty of times, but in a team that is struggling we will not get the results. Not that I am saying Lucas is the answer, just stating a fact.

All of a sudden Gerrard best position is attacking midfield when all of last year he played just behind Torres as a support striker and scored over 20 goals. Lets be realistic, the good players in a good team can play anywhere and hence the great season Gerrard had on the right.

Let’s also face up to facts that this year has been horrendous from and injury perspective. We have had no time as a team to gel, click and build up a run that confidence thrives on. We have struggled for continuity the entire season with most of our flair, attacking and most influential players out injured or coming back from injury trying to regain match fitness and sharpness. Not to mention the swagger that comes with confidence.

That the Yanks pulled the plug on Rafa’s budget leaving him short and no time to react and make alternative plans meant that the squad was short if we had a bad run of injuries. Guess what we have had the worse run of injuries I can remember. A few of us on here have been saying all season that we have not become a bad side overnight and that this season is an anomaly with everything that could go wrong going wrong.

We have witnessed the type of performance that this team, under Rafa is capable of. Yes we still need investment because we are very thin in vitals areas and if we pick up some injuries next year we could drop more points. I cannot see it being as bad as this year mind you. Any great team builds from strength in depth with continuity the vital ingredient. We have great youngsters with great potential coming through the ranks to add to our depth despite the lank of funds. It takes a lot longer this way but at least it is an option if all else fails.

The overriding factor is to understand this, support and get behind the team to give them the confidence despite the disadvantage we are at in comparisons to the teams above us because in Rafa he negates those disadvantages with his Management, tactics and superb scouting network allowing us to pick up players that we can afford and to build a squad capable of the football we saw on just 20 mill per season.

Did anyone see Arbeloa’s goal last night? Both he and Alonso scored. Watch Alonso’s pass to Arbie followed by the cool finish. Must have watched our game earlier and got inspired.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pGBzcSE_QU

Yes I did LB. It was a magnificient pass and Arbie’s finish was top draw. Made me wish they were still wearing red.

Some really good posts there Keith. Unfortunately, I don’t think you’ll ever convince some people in here of what you’re trying to say. If Rafa’s record up until last season didn’t convince people he’s as good a manager as anyone out there, then I doubt anything will. One bad season just can’t be enough to disqualify his previous achievements as I see it. Still I have to say most Liverpool forums I’ve been at are a lot worse than this comment section. At least in here some of Rafa’s critics are reasonable people, which we all know isn’t usually the case.

Yeah LB, that pass by Xabi is world class and of a kind only he and a few others in world football could get right. Nothing wrong with the run and finish by Arbeloa, but the defending by some Atletico players there is truly awful. They always have that problem for some strange reason, even though they did handle Ronaldo surprisingly well for most of the game.

Aitch,

Babel could have done some things a lot better against Sunderland. But what I think is refreshing is that he actually looks a threat most times he gets the ball and attacking the defenders. We seem to have more about us going forward with some speed and directness on the flank. His appetite has clearly improved as well as his confidence. This is good to see.

I’m not sure if coincidence but Malouda and Nani are both improving as well at the same time. Sometimes it takes a long time to settle. I know you all know this.

In the book ‘Why England lose….’ There is a section about clubs not doing enough for foreign players to settle. Often they will spend £20m on a player and just tell him to get on with it. Sometimes that player will be living in a hotel alone or with his young family without any clues on how to get anything in his new environment. The players is expected to deliver regardless because he is paid a fortune. Compare that to top business like Microsoft for example who employ relocation consultant to make sure any staff relocating to another country has their every need taken care of.

Apparently Drogba was living in a hotel during his first season at Chelsea. All the club did was give him the phone number of a local estate agents who then tried to sell him a house for £2m. He’d visit estate agents and viewed properties after training. So rather than focusing on football during training he’s worrying about picking up his wife and young kid before making it to the next estate agent appointment.

Anelka at Real Madrid is used as a case study how NOT to treat a new foreign signing.

I found this particular subject quite interesting.

Gary..good for you mate..everyone should have the
priviledge to see a game at Anfield, there truly is nothing like watching Liverpool, especially when they are “on song” like yesterday.

Ax Choice # 359 -You must have read my mind and you made the points better than I could have done.

Sambo # 357 my point may have been made ‘hundreds of times’but Rafa’s critics have complained about his man management skills hundreds of times as well. Those critics are equally dismissive when the likes of Gerrard and Torres say that the boss has helped them improve. You can’t criticise for poor man management skills but on the same token refuse to give him credit when some of our best players have stated that the mamager had helped them improve their football.

As regards Keane, Jamie (talk crap) Redknapp slated Rafa for his treatment of Keane. Well, daddy Harry sent Keane on loan to Celtic as soon as he landed in London but not a squeak from Jamie or anyone else about Harry’s man management skills.

I watched ‘The Last Word’ yesterday with Andy Gray talking shite as usual to Richard Keys. Apparently Gerrard’s lack of form this season is because he has been playing as a support striker and he is not effective with his ‘back to goal’. That was the opinion of Gray. Never mind the fact he scored 24 goals last season and won football writers player of the year playing as a support striker.

Last week after the Man Utd game Redknapp was talking about how wonderful Alonso was in our 4-1 win at Old Trafford last season. That he was spraying passes and controlling the game that day. Of course Alonso didn’t play in that game due to injury.

The level of cack I tell you. What can you except just shake your head?

LB – any chance you or any of the lads can dig out that clip where Rednap talks about Alonso at OT? Unbelievable if he said that!!

Bhav, I can’t find any footage on it. Can only find the Thomas Cook it advert.

I did find this though.

http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2010/03/27/blood-red-sky-falls-in-on-jamie-redknapp-s-liverpool-fc-views-100252-26118174/

And this

http://www.goal.com/en-india/news/2171/premier-league/2010/03/29/1854617/rafael-benitez-hits-back-at-former-liverpool-captain-jamie

Bhav, I can’t find any footage on it. Can only find the Thomas Cook it advert.

I did find this though.

http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2010/03/27/blood-red-sky-falls-in-on-jamie-redknapp-s-liverpool-fc-views-100252-26118174/

And this

http://www.goal.com/en-india/news/2171/premier-league/2010/03/29/1854617/rafael-benitez-hits-back-at-former-liverpool-captain-jamie

LB, 2 quick comments re #386.
(well okay, who are we kidding, I don’t do quick comments, we know that, but…)

Yeah, it was not my intention to be overly critical of Babel. I give credit for what he did do right against Sunderland. He tracked back, he ran at his defenders, and more importantly, he even mixed it up in terms of going outside and cutting inside.
It is a massive improvement over what we’ve been seeing form him. His body language also looked good to me.

Babel is one of those tough ones for me. If he’d had left in January, I’d have been okay with that. If he leaves in the summer, I won’t be that bothered to see him go.
But I’m well aware of what his potential. He could as easily be the next John Barnes as the next Sean Dundee. That’s the enigma that he is, for me.

But YES… he didn’t have a bad game. I guess my judgment on his Sunderland performance was clouded a bit by the fact I was wishing him to
…just beat his man a few more times,
…just delivered the ball better a few more times, or
…just put a bit more into the few half-chances that fell to him.

That might be unfair on him. (I accept that.)
But as much as it wouldn’t bother me to see him leave LFC, I’d love to see him really come good too.

Now the other stuff from “Why England Lose…”

A lot of people don’t look beyond what’s in front of them for the 90 minutes and Kopblog has seen many a discussion about how we sometimes need to look beyond that and see the “big picture”.

As someone who’s done a lot of traveling, both personal and for work… As much as I am very, very firmly in the “these guys are overpaid to just play a game of footy” camp… I also recognize how hard it is to go away from home, from friends and family, from everything you know and are familiar with.

Some people find it easier to do than others. Some people need their family more than others. Individuals handle all this differently. It makes a difference if you are naturally outgoing, or a bit shy. That also can make a difference in your ability to handle the language barriers.

And all that… does show itself on the field, in one way or another.

Based on what you typed, LB, I’ll definitely be adding “Why England Lose…” to my reading list.

I’ll also add “Why England Lose” to my reading list. There’s already a book by Simon Kuper on there, called “Football Against the Enemy”, recommended to me by a friend whose opinion I value greatly. Something tells me pundits like Jamie “the fact checker” Redknapp wouldn’t bother to read books like these.

Jamie Redknapp can read??????????

Does anyone know who this Dr Brukner fella is? He is an Aussie who (I think) will be the head of sports science for LFC, effectively overseeing the entire medical and physio teams.

Whatever these Aussies know it must be good because they managed to fix Harry Kewell! Let’s hope he can do the same for a certain FT and SG.

Lurgan, looks like he will be coming in after the World Cup. Don’t know anything about him but if he can help the injury and fitness situation it’s got to be a good appointment.

As for the Why England Lose book. I highly recommend it. Fascinating read. Just one teaser from the book….

No team from a non-dictatorship capital city has ever won the European Cup/Champions League. Clubs from smaller towns/cities down the years have always been more successful. Paris, Moscow, London, Rome, Berlin teams – no cigar. However clubs from smaller provincial towns such as Nottingham, Liverpool, Manchester, Milan, Turin, St Petersberg, Lyon, Marseille have done better.

The book explains why this is the case and why a dictatorship capital such as Madrid and Lisbon are exceptions to the rule.

Wouldnt regard Liverpool, Milan and Manc AS SMALL AND PROVINCIAL.Ajax from Amsterdam fit the bill, capital/largest city and democracy.The Hague doesn’t have a team.

http://www.guillembalague.com/blog has a good piece re Torres.Time for a new blog!.What has happened to FS?.

Population of Milan is 1.3 million. Rome is nearly 3 million.

Population of Liverpool is 1.2 million. Manchester is 2.3 million. London’s population is 14 million. Compare the economy of London to cities like Liverpool, manchester and nottingham.

Good point about Ajax of Amsterdam though. Anyway read the book, you might learn something.

Well don’t read the book BM. Simple!

LB I hear that Brukner has already started at Anfield and will be there until the end of the season and he will then head off to the WC with the Austrialian squad.

Supposedly Brukner had a long chat with Rafa and is ‘impressed’ with him and the direction of the club, our custodians excluded.

Seems like a good recruit but what can he do when the lads are on international duty?

Personally, I just like that we are still talking long-term with Rafa!