great blog as ever Ger. the comment section from the last blog was starting to look like it needed its own postcode!! some great stuff in there from all different perspectives by the way. id be delighted with 1-0 away on thursday apparently this lot have only conceded five goals at home in the league all season.
what about munich by the way, shrek injured and an injury time winner i’ll save my opinion as to whether there is a god till after the second leg though.

Another good blog Gerry, however I cant agree with your team selection for Thursday night. I think we need to keep the side settled and play the same team that demolished Sunderland on Sunday. I reckon Rafa should keep Gerrard in the midfield role, move Kuyt to the right wing and try Aqualani behind Torres. Nothing against Lucas or Hercules but I really do think we should keep the side together if we’re winning. I think if we go at Benfica like we did Manure and Sunderland we can get a good result to bring back to anfield.

Sounds good to me van-leffo and I’d much prefer to see your side out there, but I think it will be caution in the first leg and kill them off at Anfield. I don’t really mind how we do it, as long as we get through to the semis.

About time you updated Gerry, and I was actually about to say Gerrard’s starting to turn up at last in the Sunderland game whereas Gerry’s still missing. lol

The few days after the Scum game was like hell, Webb turned out to be an ultimate cunt – he was worse than Mike Riley. Only Lee Mason surpasses him in ineptitude. Like the rubbish “three yellow one red” Graham Poll before him, all these plaudits of being the “best ref in England” has seriously gotten over his thick and bald head, the only thing he has that resembles Pierluigi Collina.

To add insult to injury, the Chavs lost points to Fat Sam while Man City won as well that Sunday, so it was a Triple Whammer.

Yet to quote Michael Corleone from Godfather III: “Just when I think I’m out, they pull me back in.”

Maybe it’s something to do with Scouse solidarity against the constant media smear, but our little neighbours did us a huge favour by beating City, while Villa drew for the second consecutive game.

The weekend got even better as Moaning O’Neill once again demonstrated his knack for pushing the Self-Destruct Button as the season draws to a close.

Of course, all these turn in fortunes would be for nought if we didn’t turn up for the game against the Sunderland Beach Boys.

But turn up our boys did. Perhaps the suffocating pressure of having to win every week was actually lifted after the Scum game that the players decided, “Fuck it. To hell with whether we get 4th or not, we’re going to play football and bloody enjoy ourselves.” And how they and we enjoyed that football last Sunday.

When things turn for the better come the end of this season (which I believe it will, as Spurs, Villa and City all have tougher fixtures than us) I believe this game will define our fortunes in 2010/2011. (Best not to elaborate too much for now or I might jinx it. )

Anyway, I’m really looking forward to the Benfica game, they owe us big time for them knocking us out in 2006 Champions League.

The potential semis look intriguiing as well. If it’s Atletico, then Torres will finally get his homecoming (he was injured the last time we visited them). And if it’s Valencia, then it will be Rafa’s turn to prove the media clowns and Yank goons that they’ll be making a serious mistake for attempting to hound him out of Liverpool, and who better to make an example than Valencia? But I’ll focus on Benfica first.

A bit off-topic, but the Scum seem to have tasted their own medicine. 11 years ago, they robbed Bayern by two fortuitous late goals. Last night, Bayern repaid the favour.

Though it was a pity the Scum still have an away goal, but they’ve now lost Shrek, and with them having to play the Chavs this Saturday, I have absolutely no sympathy for Mister Ferguscum for having to potentially face a catastrophic end to his season. (FINGERS CROSSED!)

Gerry,
You’re probably right, I think Rafa will approach the game on Thursday cautiously but wouldn’t it be great if the team carried on playing the attacking football we’ve seen over the last 4 games. The team has suffered this year from being too cautious, rather than going out to win games with an attacking line up Rafa has opted for a defensive side that play like they’re more scared of losing than wanting to win. If we can do well in this competition and get fourth spot it will be at least some consolation for an otherwise disappointing season.
As for the big game on Saturday another 7-1 win to the chavs will do nicely, what do you reckon?

Fucking great result last night for Munich – thoroughly deserved and with Rooney’s injury threatening to keep him out for maybe 4-6 weeks, this could be a major turning point in the Scum’s season

Oh and good to have ya back Gerry!

I’m not bitter or anything but I was over the moon to see Bayern snatch that 92nd minute winner and delighted with the added bonus of shrek being injured in the process. What about England I hear being cried? who gives a toss! Oh please please let the mancs blow the title.

Good to have you back Gerry and I hope things are going well for you in the land of Kopblog.

I’m with Van Leffo and BM (from the last blog) on this one. No more changes please Rafa. FFS, the lads have had a shite load of rest due to injuries so they should be fresh as anyone.

Also, get Riera out ASAP. No need for that type of shite from anyone in the squad and Rafa needs to make an example of him!

I got the to watch the last few minutes of the mancs match. I’m not bitter either KDLL but it was sweet. Also, let’s see how they do without the ape-boy!

Great blog Gerry. I think the reason we have not seen such type of display from the team is because of the cautious approach. To add to that, we also have been unlucky with our injuries.

But onething which really striked me was how Manchester United played us at Old Trafford. The fact that they played with only Rooney upfront clearly meant that Sir Alex knew how dangerous we are as a team even in a season where nothing has gone in our favour.

I think Benifca will throw a different kind of challenge. They have got good attacking players and i saw them play against Everton. It will be a mistake to play a defensive game against them.

Just read the following article:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/a/arsenal/8591463.stm

Its amazing to know the story behind these great players. Interestingly Rodolfo Borrell(who found Cesc Fabregas)is our under 19 coach. I can clearly understand what Rafa is trying to build here. Rafa should be given time.

Magic blog Gerry,
especially the refrain from petty name calling, Gerry i would’nt sell the fucker i’d let him languish with the A team and reserves for the duration of his contract, we may well need the money from his sale but fuck it we’ve come this far still skint so i dont see (dont know how long he signed for) that we cant wait till the cunt walks away.

If Barca and Bayern do the biz, the Reds may be the only prem team left in europe!.Hpefully the Chavs will give Taggart more problems on Sat.Sit back V Benfica and probably lose.Go for the jugular and finish the tie with 2 away goals.Remember Neverkusen in 05 and Roma in 01.

Gerry,
just been on sky that Martin Kelly needs knee surgery and will miss the rest of the season.
Never mind we are at the arse end of it anyway.

Good to have you back Ger, great blog to boot. I like your team Van Leffo, that’d be my pick too. Great find on Rodolfo and Fabregas Somnath, very interesting read. And finally, cant believe that about Kelly Redman, just when he got back too, bollix.

Burgerman,

Fulham is still in Europa as well….

Can’t see Fulham getting to the semis.Why is Somnath calling Taggart Sir Alex?.Brum is the second hardest game left.

Burgerman: You are actually making some sense. Are you off the crack cocaine now?

Somnath: Burgerman is right. Wash your mouth out with soap and water. It’s slur alex or taggart or whiskey drinking red nosed tramp.

From BBC Sport news:

Midfielder Alberto Aquilani will miss Liverpool’s Europa League quarter-final first leg clash with Benfica after suffering an ankle injury in training.

It is the same ankle the £17m signing injured when he joined last summer.

Dirk Kuyt is likely to move back to the right side with Steven Gerrard playing a more advanced role and Lucas in for the ineligible Maxi Rodriguez.

Defender Martin Kelly has joined Martin Skrtel and Fabio Aurelio on the injury list and will require knee surgery.

Aquilani is beginning to remind me of a car I bought about 8 years ago. Fiat Bravo sport, ink Black – it looked great, it was quick and handled very well, fully electric, sun roof, heated seats, 18 inch alloys, great stereo. Trouble was every fucking minute something was wrong with it. Spark plugs, exhaust, radiator, tyres, brakes, wheels, the stereo got stolen… Eventually I thought the car was jinxed and I got rid of it. The thing proved to be a fucking liability.

I think we’ve all had a car like that LB. Mine was a citroen BX. My own fault really, now I have a simple philosphy, never buy a french car.

Great Blog and well thought out as usual. Very frustrating in deed, I really think the lack of confidence and the disruptions the injuries caused with half fit players and the chopping and changing it caused has been more disruptive than most people will give credit for.

From personal perspective I knew this team, the first 11 as you pointed out, with 3 or 4 bench players could and would beat all comers on their day. The 11 injuries was just too much for us to overcome and I think you are being a tad hard on Rafa Gerry. Yes he has to share the responsibility most definitely and yes he has made mistakes all managers do, but to hold him responsible for half fit players, disjointed displays, players palpably off form like Gerrard is a bit harsh. As outsiders we will never know the extent of these disruptions and the extent it has caused us to misfire this badly. I like to think of it as an anomaly.

Having zero to spend in the last 3 windows is a massive factor, being told at the 11th hour that what you thought you had to spend has been retracted, leaving any planning for the season a total mess. The Yanks a soley to blame for our lack of depth and we would be fooling ourselves if we think it will get any better until these parasites our out for good.

I think, there has been rumors that there are a few problems, but the Serbian striker is coming to us on a free transfer and by all accounts he will be an excellent signing, quick and lethal in front of goals. I agree on letting Aurelleo go or the pay for play deal that Rafa has offered him, if not trying to find a cost effective alternative with the packet of chips and mars bars that we will get and I am hoping we can afford to bring in Turin or a Turan type player that can play on both wings. So for relatively little out lay we could add considerable depth, especially if, as you say Rafa promotes Pecheco, another year older and stronger and Kelly to the mix. I would not mind seeing Nemeth thrown in as well. For me he is a King Kenny type player.

Yes Babel has improved, he might not be pulling up trees just yet but his attitude and application is right. We know he has the talent so maybe we will get to see the best of him in the future.

Aquilani is out injured and Maxi is illegible so I expect to see Gerrard in behind Torres with Lucas and Masch in the midfield. Lets not forget we beat the Manc 4-1 with this formation and Lucas was in the midfield that beat the barcodes 5-0 so if the team is gelling, confident and playing well Lucas’s inclusion is not as negative as some people would like to make it out to be.

Well said Keith.

I’ve heard enough from people here and elsewhere saying playing Lucas = playing defensive. It’s interesting no one said this when we beat Lille with Lucas playing well, and providing an assist if I don’t remember wrongly.

From what I see, the recent improvements (Scoring 3 against Lille, 4 against Pompey, and 3 against Sunderland bar the loss against Man U) has largely been due to key players recovering from injuries.

This gives Rafa the luxury to pick and choose the players he deems more suitable for each game from now to the end of the season. Judging from our terrible away form this year, I can understand why Rafa would tend to pick Lucas, as he is always ready to track back and help the team when necessary.

Referring to the Lille game again, we can still play good passing football again even if Lucas starts against Benfica with Masch, if the other players have more confidence and play their part just like the Sunderland game.

On another note, my question to everyone here is:

If (I know it’s a big if) Babbel improves and actually plays close to his potential next season, who is willing to say this? “Good Man Management Rafa for pulling Babbel from the brink of mediocrity!”

Axchoice, I think Rafa is partly responsible for Babel’s extremely low confidence, lack of self belief and disillusionment. Of course if Babel were to reach his potential Rafa should get some credit for talking to him and eventually helping him to get somewhere near his potential. I wouldn’t go as far as putting him in the Clough/Shankly category of man-management though.

I’m not sure why people get so upset when others suggest playing Lucas in midfield rather than Gerrard or Aquilani is a more defensive move. It is a more defensive move.

Lucas has 1 assist and no goals in 28 Premier league this season.
Gerrard has 6 goals and 6 assists in 26 premier league games.
Aquilani has 1 goal and 3 assists in 13 premier league appearances.

There is no argument as to what is the more defensive selection.

The following stat is unfair but there are only 2 league games that Lucas did not play in:

Liverpool 4-1 Portsmouth
Liverpool 3-0 Sunderland

Correction Lucas has played in 30 league games. Gerrard 27 games.

You’ve the patience of a saint LB lol!

Very nice twist LB almost in the Digger mold, however you managed to do it minus the sarcasm. However Digger filled in for you a little later

Nobody said playing Lucas instead of Gerrard or Aqulani was not more defensive, what we said was that playing Lucas was not necessarily more defensive as everybody would like to make out, if the rest of the team was firing and playing well. Lucas has been in the team on a number of occasions when we have trounced opposition. Yes Aquilani and Gerrard are more attacking options but that was not the debate seeing Aquilani is out injured, Maxi illegible and with the probebility of Kuyt being pushed out wide and Gerrard playing in behind Torres. Yes the same position where Gerrard scored over 20 odd goals last season and picked up the player of the year (I thought Alonso deserved it before we go down that road again)

How the team plays, defensively, attackingly depends on confidence and fit players. We do not see them at practice; we do not see them train so it is very difficult to judge with any accuracy.

LB to say that it was down to Rafa for Babels lack of effort and confidence is also very misleading for the very same reasons above. The lad lacked a lot in terms of dedication and effort put in. He started plenty of games where he did fuck all and did not deserve his place in the team. We did not see how he trained, what effort he out in. It seems when he did not get an automatic starting place he sulked and did little else but bitch, twitter and moan. He now seems to what to play and what to contribute and is putting in the effort that it takes to succeed at this level. With that effort come the rewards. He could have kicked on earlier from the supper sub status if he had applied himself earlier. It’s very easy to blame a manager for a players defects when most of the time the blame is squarely at the players feet for his lack of dedication.

my team against benfica:

————dudek———
-kelly –skertl – sami —aurelio
-maxi –pacheco–aquilani –babel
———–benny————-
———-nemeth———–

but sure as hell rafa wont play this – the stubborn little fecker.

YNWA

Aquilani has suffered an ankle injury in training (the same ankle that was injured when he joined). Total bummer.

That was supposed to be

The main anchor-man on NorthWest news today has just come on and said “A nation hold’s it’s breath” i thought ‘fuck no not another cuban crisis’ he was on about rooney fuckin rooney a nation holds its breath i’d like to hold his fuckin breath.

Keith, I said Rafa is partly responsible for Babel. Not totally. I’ve given my reasons a number of times.

As for Lucas, I wasn’t really directing that post at you. And the last stat was tongue in cheek whether you believe it or not. However I think people get a bit too defensive. Because Lucas gets a lot of criticism in general, one cannot come in here and say that we’d be better off with Gerrard or Aquilani in his place without the debate starting all over again.

Saying Gerrard should play in midfield instead of Lucas is no criticism of Lucas. It’s like saying I want Torres to play up front instead of Ngog and reeling off stats that support the theory that we score more goals with El Nino up front compared to when we have the Eggnog in the team. That isn’t making Ngog a scapegoat, its giving an opinion as to what is a better option for us.

I really enjoyed that Arse Barca game. Beautiful football. Barca should have been 4-0 up at half time. 2-2 and I think the Arse might get slaughtered at the Camp Nou.

Benfica tomorrow will be a very difficult game. They have scored 37 goals in 12 home games and conceded just 5.

Great blog Gerry.

Spot on about the Arse and Barca LB. I just saw the second half and it was a pleasure to watch Barcelona until they went to sleep. God it must be great to really love and support a team like that. We, on the other hand, get the pleasure of suffering on a weekly basis ! Feck it, i wouldn’t have it any other way !
I actually think they have a shout in the second leg as both Barca’s centre halves will be absent. Looked like neither team could really defend so they’ll be goals for sure over there.
The reason I’m interested is obviously not to watch football of a higher plane of course but I’m trying to figure what would be the best outcome for us.
So I hope Arsenal lose over there so they concentrate on winning the league. Mind you they are no great shakes really.
Similarly I was delighted to see Chelsea go out.
I have to say I also hope Utd go out not just because I don’t want them winning another Euro but it means they will have to concentrate vs Spurs and City.
So there you have it. I want them all out.

I also agree tht Benfica will be a bit of a rollercoaster. I know 0 – 0 would be ok by many people but I really would like to see us score there. Even a 2-1 defeat would not be the worst thing in my mind. (Not that I want to lose). They are top of the League, full of beans and banging in goals to beat the band. Better than Lilles by a mile I’d say.

Could be a real dinger of a game.

Personally I wouldn’t be too fussed about Riera myself. Could have been a valuable asset for us if he had applied himself (pretty much the same thing with babel). I think he could have got his move, if he’d wanted it, a bit more subtley. he should not have blown his mouth off over in Spain but sticks and stones and all that. He’s not that important a player for us. It would have been a whole lot different if it had been one of the main men. As it is he’s just blown his career here and probably the World Cup as well. Stupid Albert.

LB,

I agree with you that “Saying Gerrard should play in midfield instead of Lucas is no criticism of Lucas”.

However, what we’ve been saying is that playing Lucas isn’t necessarily defensive as what many people here say.

I get your point now after reading what you’ve just said in the last few posts, and certainly agree that playing Aquilani or Gerrard in midfield is more attacking.

But football is more about balance between attack and defence, something very hard to achieve. As armchair critics, it’s very easy for us to criticise on hindsight after every bad result.

Like what you’ve always been saying, we have to look at the big picture to judge Rafa’s performance.

While I agree that Rafa’s no Shanks or Clough in the man management department (they both are among the best in fact), I feel he isn’t a bad man manager (the other extreme) as many like to claim here. That’s why I posed the hypothetical question about Babbel.

At least you’re willing to give Rafa some credit if Babbel really bucks up and plays well next season. I’m just against those who are so set on this opinion of cold Rafa can’t manage players.

Keith – hang on a sec mate, I never said Rafa was responsible for all that stuff you mentioned in your post, in fact I’ve written many blogs stating many of those same things were beyond his control.
I said that as the manager he has to shoulder a “certain” amount of responsibility and I think that’s a fair comment and not at all a tad harsh, unless of course you happen to believe that a manager bares no responsibility for his teams performances.
I mentioned in the blog that there are some things that he has said and done this season that I wouldn’t agree with, but I haven’t as yet gotten in to the specifics of what those things were and I can assure you that when I do you will see that I am referring to certain things which were within his control that in my opinion he could have handled better.
But we’ll get into this in more detail in the close season because I just think now is a time for us to be focused on supporting the team and we’ll have plenty of time to rack over those coals at the end of the season.

LB, your comment concerning Aquilani on #19 makes it sound as though he’s another “flop” in the vein of Kewell and Degen.

Is that the general consensus within the media hacks and certain sections of our fans? (Which hopefully you are not)

Firstly, unlike Kewell and Degen, who turned out to be not quite the product as advertised, Rafa bought Aquilani KNOWING he’ll be injured for lots of this season. His return to fitness took longer than expected, and coincided with the mega-slump that began with the Beach Ball Affair back in October.

As one of “Rafa’s cocksuckers”, I would give him the benefit of the doubt that he was not willing to rush Aquilani on too quickly, and hence his sporadic use until lately.

The BBC report you quoted on #18 missed one vital sentence by Rafa that the media no doubt deliberately omitted: “It doesn’t seem too serious but it’s the same ankle as before and so we’ll have to analyse the situation carefully.”

Suggesting he’s only being taken off as a precaution. (TOUCH WOOD) While very frustrating and annoying, surely it’s still too premature to declare he’s another Kewell or Degen?

Another fact not known by a lot of people is that we only paid 5m quid upfront to Roma for now, and then we’ll pay the rest gradually depending on Aquilani’s performance.

Finally, for your information, for the 5 games that Aquilani has started in so far, Liverpool have won all 5.

(BTW, I nearly choked on my drink to see BM actually talking sense for once, reprimanding somnath for calling that cunt “Sir Alex”. )

This one is funny.

http://www.imscouting.com/global-news-article/Riera-U-turn-Wants-to-stay-at-great-Liverpool-after-breakdown-of-Spartak-move/6843/?

So Riera spat out his dummy and has done a U turn.
I agree what he said was spiteful and the timing was destabilising but the lad was clearly frustrated.

Last season he had a decent run and provided us some width on the left, being the only genuine left footed winger we had in our squad since Kewell. I actually thought he linked very well with Insua before he was injured. After that and the signing of Maxi he disappeared off the face of the planet.

He wasn’t involved since recovering from injury and wasn’t even considered for Europa games prior to his shocking outburst. I actually thought that he was a decent purchase after watching him In a few games and thought he was a useful squad player so this came as a surprise to me. What he did may never be forgiven but I hope if we can’t offload him he would at least be given a couple if games in Europe to raise his value and just be fined heavily as punishment.

Obviously the lack of communication is an issue that not every player can handle especially if they are bursting to play.
He has ab issue with Rafa not Liverpool so it is unfortunate they cannot sort it out as adults.

On to tonights game. Is Benayoun fit to play?
We will have to use out squad wisely to stay in both competitions. We were visibly tired against United after only playing against Lille on Thursday following a game on Monday.

We cannot afford to play the kind of lethargic football that has been so typical of our performance this season. We need maximum points at Birmingham which very few have managed. Consistent level of performances like we showed against Sunderland will have to be repeated another six times especially on our away fixtures to have any chance at clinching that 4th spot.

Rooney’s injury might have a great impact if the scum don’t take maximum points off Spurs and United much like Fabregad and Arsharvins injuries might ad well.

Hope Gerrard hits his peak again soon. We will need him at his best tonight. Johnson will be key as well.

I meant to say Spurs and City.

Fair enough Gerry, I did say a tad harsh but I agree lets debate this at a later stage and yes a manager has to take ultimate responsibility for the teams performance but a lot of what has happened this season has been uncontrollable and taken out of his hands.

Loved the Arse, Barca game how they are still in it beats the hell out of me. Barca should be going back with a 4 goal cushion minimum. Yes Ibrohimavic scored 2 goals but missed three times as much. Lucky, Lucky Arsenal.

I think this is an April Fool’s joke
http://www.liverpool.vitalfootball.co.uk/article.asp?a=193836

Or maybe it’s the Riera one I posted earlier?

£6.9 million is due to be paid for Aqui on July 1, £6 mill was paid last August and the final £4.3 mill is due on July 11.Each 35th appearance triggers a £215k payment and CL qualification 250K.Have to grab an away goal tonight, hope Rafa watched the Manc and Arse games.Babel and Benny should start on the flanks.

I really do hope we take the game to Benfica tonight. If we sit back and soak up pressure we’ll eventually concede and then it’s difficult to turn the tide. Guadiola said the following after the Arsenal Barca game. “There is more risk when you take no risk.”

LB i totally agree with that sentiment and am a big fan of pep and barca (otherwise dont get food served at home), but taking risks becomes a bit easier when you have messi, xavi, iniesta et al playing for you. having said that what i saw during the first 20 mins of the game last night was simply surreal.

now for our boys to better that in benfica tonight!
YNWA

That first 20 mins will live long in the memory. Simply breathtaking football.

London Barnes,
Interesting stats in post #23, I personally think Lucas is alright but the way Gerrard controlled the game from centre mid against Sunderland surely proves he is better suited there than behind Torres. Aqualani’s injury has put a spanner in the works for my line-up for tonight, but if Benayoun is fit I would play him behind Torres instead. I know this is all academic as I’m sure Rafa will go with a central midfield of scape-goat and masch and play Gerrard behind Torres. Whatever team he puts out I hope they lose the shackles and go for it because Benfica have scored 30 odd goals in their last 12 home games. C’mon redmen – innit.

I think many people don’t understand that Gerrard’s main strength, as stated by Rafa, is that he can play well almost everywhere!

Proof?
(1) Season 2005-2006: Gerrard was played mostly on the right of midfield and scored 23 goals out of 53 games.
(2) Season 2007-2008: He played in a few positions, and settled towards the 2nd striker role at the end of that season, scoring a total of 21 goals in 52 games, and in the process forged a formidable partnership with Torres that is compared even with Dalgish & Rush.
(3) Season 2008-2009: He played mostly in the 2nd striker role with Alonso & Masch in midfield. He scored 24 goals in 44 games.

A small n
Even Fabio Capello uses him as a left midfielder.

My conclusion? Stevie’s best position is largely determined by the state of the team. Our team’s current form certainly merits him starting in the middle with Masch.

And if we have a good central midfielder to partner Masch, then playing him as 2nd striker is definitely a good choice.

Unlike many here, I still believe that given time for development and recovery respectively, Lucas and Aquilani can hold the midfield with Masch and allow the devastating Torres-Gerrard partnership to further flourish.

This partnership is still our best bet as I don’t think we have that much cash to splash on a good striker, unless Babbel comes good and Ngog matures quickly enough.

No one in the team is as good as Gerrard to relieve the scoring burden of Torres at the moment, unless we change tactics and get Kuyt to do the dirty work but get someone else to cover right midfield.

Line up confirmed:

Reina
Johnson Carra Agger Insua
Kuyt Lucas Mascherano Babel
Gerrard
Torres

A red card and 2 penalties. What a disgusting string of decisions by the referee. Hopefully we get the same easy to intimidate by home fans clown to blow the whistle in the second leg.

MATCH FIXING PROBE, PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That was the most outrageous 90 minutes of officiating I’ve ever seen in my life (and I’ve played a load of footy in the States where refereeing is abysmal!)

Nonsensical decisions (both ways)…
Players fall over their own feet. Its a foul. Players get clattered from behind. Play on!

Yellow cards for a little push… but Babel gets gung-foo kicked in the head and play is waved on.

Dirk Kuyt got repeatedly elbowed in the back when going for headers, and play is waved on, but
Insua gets a yellow for the slightest of tugs on an arm.

The offside for the disallowed goal? Kuyt was nowhere near the ball and therefore constitutes “not involved in the play”!

Their player kicks the ball away… and Pepe gets yellow carded for time-wasting…What?

The sending off was just ludicrous! Epecially considering the tackle on Torres warranted a sending off in itself. That was so blatant, and premeditated.

Make no bones… Benfica play some lovely footy and outplayed us a bit here and there even before Babel got sent off… but playing a team that plays fast pass-n-move like that for 60 minutes, especially when they can commit players forward the way they did, and with a ref like that, and you’ll be damn lucky to hold them out.

Should have been 2-2, but we’d have taken 1-2 back to Anfield before the kick off, so not a bad result really (especially under the circumstances.)
Here’s to yet another one of those “European Nights”!

Firstly i want to say it was a hard fought performance by the lads ,and losing babel to a stupid decision by a trigger happy ref didn,t help our cause none, the ref truly never had a hold on the game and handed out cards as if he was in vegas. Like most of you i was totally mesmerised by barca especially the 1st half….in the benfica game we rarely had a midfield i know we had a man down but the long balls that we are constantly passing this season are exactly the oppisite of the kind of football we should and are capable of playing….as seen against sunderland, in that game we passed from the back 4 into midfield short passes, movement and sliced our way up the park creating loads of space, gerard had another bad game in my opinion, his control was off his passing and crosses were innifective and decicion making especially near goal were off a man desperatly looking for a goal as opposed to finding a man clearly in a better position…i can only think that he needs to be in midfield against birming as this is where he is feeling more confident and he can control the game…im sorry but lucas just isnt effective enough and personally i think if we are to play anywhere near the barca esque type football lucas needs to command the ball and play football thru the middle, maybe thats the defenders fault for not giving the shorter pass i watched today and johnston, cara, and insua passed the ball long to no one and its been happening all season…these balls are miles off target i mean fucken hell. We were unlucky today torres missed a sitter by his standards and was a constant threat, i was pretty baffled by rafas subs once again, i would have brought benny on a long time earlier and pulled lucas and dropped stevie deeper, i hope torres had an injury as he was getting chances and the equalizer was there for the taking. aggar was a standout for me and ive no doubt we can put 2 or 3 against them at home.

Not a bad result considering.The sending off certainly changed the game.There was nothing in what Babel had done but he raised his hand and thats asking for it.

I have to agree with Aitch though the overall standard of refereeing was ibismile.

The two penalties cannot be argued.The team showed some character after going behind and could have even sneaked a 2-2.

Going down to ten men against a decent side who keep the ball well was always going to be hard.

Just hope this hasn`t taken too much out of the players.Torres ran his bolx off tonight and got kicked from pillar to post again.

We can defenitely do them at Anfield.Set up nicely for a big atmosphere next thursday.

Their fans were a disgrace too.

Gerry, if there’s one thing I take consolation about this season is I’m NOT a Benfica fan. The kind of disgraceful behavior of throwing flares onto the pitch is beyond me. Digressing, it continually surprises me when I read of English fans being linked with hooliganism abroad, seeing just how English fans are cool as opposed to those from mostly romantic countries.

That said, and starting with the recent, an unfairly ten-man team has just given a very in-form, dominant opponent a run for their money and earned a priceless away goal. This is despite atrocious reffing. That gives this fan plenty of hope for the return leg and beyond. We WILL be fine.

The Sunderland result taught me a number of things. First, you can outplay a team and goals will not necessarily follow. Barcelona yesterday and the Reds on Sunday are prime examples of this truism.

Secondly, luck’s fluctuation means you can never fully rely on it. We’ve been so unlucky against the Black Cats this season, conceding to a beach ball, only to entertain the same team and thoroughly annihilate them!

Thirdly, no season is entirely successful or entirely a failure. Barcelona’s record-breaking form has also seen them succumb to match fatigue this season, while we’re still reconciling our blistering form last season with this year’s limp display. We aren’t out by a long shot though!

Related to the point above, it isn’t over till the lady sings. You might lead as we did at Benfica, or as MUFC did at Bayern and succumb to late sucker punches. Without wishing him ill, it can still get worse with the loss of your team’s Rooney!

Fourthly, Jamie Redknapp’s an idiot. For JR: 1) blessed is the man who having nothing to say does not give wordy evidence of the same, and, 2) Better to keep silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt! So injured Alonso was that influential against Madrid and MUFC? Must have been a unique situation indeed for someone who was injured in those matches!

Credit to our boys for playing discipline. Kipling noted that if you can keep your head when everyone’s losing theirs, then you count yourself successful. With Babel out they still played well and didn’t give away much.

Let’s take ANY and ALL positives we get this season. Nothing has been won or lost yet, and it’s a case of a game at a time, beginning with tricky Birmingham.

Keep the faith. Siempre es posible. YN(Ever)WA(Ever)!

I heard Insua is suspended for the return leg against Benfica. Together with Babbel, the Ref has nullified our left wing in the second leg.

Let’s hope Aurelio is ready and maybe even Riera

We will do them at Anfield. I think Aurellio will be fit by then. We have no other options for left back unless we throw in Mavinga from the reserves which is unlikely or move Agger to left back. For left wing Maxi is inelligible and Babel is suspended sonwe will need to start Benayoun and have Riera on the bench.

Well hopefully we can kick on and not be too fatigued at St. Andrews.

Although I did not see the game,I get the feeling that the referee and his team were intimidated by the crowd and feared for their own safety.
I was disappointed with the result but proud of the team.
It is now up to the Red’s crowd to get behind the team and I know they will on the 2nd leg!

Alright men, been a while. Been poping in on the comments but no time to post. I needed a break anyways that last few weeks tested me in ways I never thought possible.
On to the game, and I agree 110% with you atich the ref was a disgrace. He was obviously following the game to the letter of the law……. But only with our players. Completely buckled to the home fans. It really doesn’t feel like a bad lose that away goal will prove vital, of that I am sure.
I woke this morning thinking that the away game was today, that’s how eager I am to get them back to anfield and I not only want to see us beat them technically but also PHYSICALLY!! I mean really kick lumps outta the bastards. Just one thought and it’s happened so many times this and last season when torres was booted from behind and babel got sent off defending him…….. Where was our captin???

I’m beginning to like the spirit and attitude shown by Babbel. Read this.

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/latest-news/ryan-sorry-for-seeing-red

I hope it is the sign that Babbel is starting to focus on his football rather than his selection.
Maybe we don’t need a backup striker next season but concentrate on the left back and winger Gerry is talking about in this blog.

Axchoice,
I’m well aware as I’m sure ‘many people’ are of Gerard’s main strength that is his ability to play anywhere. I can remember him breaking through into the first team and filling in at right back and quite literally being the best right back I’d seen in some time, likewise when he played right wing, he was, again, the best right winger I’d seen for years, and of course we all know he can score. But what I’m saying is he is at his most effective for us and has the most influence in games when he plays centre mid, controlling the game and bursting through from deep and scoring goals that change the game.
Anyway, to last nights game; what a disgrace that ref was, the lads did us proud and all things considered 2-1 wasn’t a bad result and I cant wait to get them back to anfield and not only show them what proper support is but show them what an 11 man Liverpool can do!
I might even try and get a pass out for the night and go the game, jump on the 68 grab a bag of chips on the way to the stadium, stop off at the Oakfield for a pint, who knows…

Had Babel syayed on a the Reds would have got a draw @ least.Why did Agger kick the ball towards his own goal after the ball came back from the post?.
Aurelio was badly missed down the left and how did Torres miss the sitter after 72 mins.Why does Rafa not buy players from the Portugese league?, they couldn’t be any worse thn Riera or Degen?.Benfica are decent enough to make the last 16 or 8 of the CL.Aqui will probably miss the rest of the season, could of done with him last night.

RoaringRed-maybe Stevie was afraid of getting sent off too seeing that the ref was so one-sided.

Sry I meant to say I woke thinking today was the return leg. Sure you’s got that. Jack hill I didn’t mean go over and stick the head in just go over and be a captin.
I’ve noticed this alot in the last couple of season mate, maybe he’s told not to get involved as he may get sent off but captins have certain roles and in a hostile away game in Europe being the voice of your team is right up at the top of your priorities.

I think there is little chance of Riera featuring in the 2nd leg – mopre likely Benny starting out there as Maxi is cup tied.

If Aurelio is not fit, maybe Agger could fill in at left back with Kyriagos partnering JC in the middle.

Benfica were shameful, a dirty disgusting side who were out ot stop Torres by any means. Their hatchet man goes right through Torres and escapes with a yellow, while Babel stupidly raises his hands to cover his opponents stinking breath and plays into the ref’s hands by the letter of the law!

One more thing, how on earth did Torres miss that chance, clean through on 75 minutes?

Perhaps he’ll make amends for that in the 2nd leg, let’s hope so. Or maybe we’ll win 1-0 with a dodgy penalty. Wouldn’t that be sweet poetic justice?

Our best player last night? For me it was Dirk Kuyt.

I watched the match on channel 5 last night and this morning i sent the same channel an indignant e-mail telling them i would never again watch a match being televised by them, the commentator (dont know who he was) was a fucking joke literally gagging for benfica to score and go on to win when it was 1-1, when they scored the first penalty the camera panned onto a young Red’s fan of about 10yrs old and he was sobbing the dickhead commentator laughed and said ‘oh dear,
what an insensitive fucker who i guess has Portoguese parentage the way he was orgasming over benfica.
The ref, well it was said on the tv that he was a millionaire after selling his company to some corporation, so he probably did’nt give a fuck and showed it in his officiating.
Burgerman, i think we could get Eusabio on a free but dont quote me.

…err… redman, it wasn’t a Scouse kid, it was a Benfica kid and they were teears of joy coz they got the pen.
It’ll get shown again… take a good look, he’s holding a Benfica scarf.. you can see the logo quite clearly.
But YES, teh commentary was rather …er… skewed.

And lets dispel all this “letter of the law” nonsense, right here.
If the ref was following the letter of the law, then he would have sent Lisuao (or whateve rhis name is) off for the challenge on Torres. He went in full belt from behind. That’s a red. period.

This same player fouled Torres from behind no fewer than 4 times in the following 30 minutes… yet no 2nd yellow? Where was the letter of the law?

Their other defender… the one with the big ginger afro… also got away with 3 elbows to the back of Dirk Kuyt’s head and shoulder blades when going up for headers, early in the game, and got away with 2 elbows into Torres’ back and 4 blatant tackles from behind on Torres…He eventually got yellow carded… but the ref gave him warning, after the first Torres elbow and then let 3 tackles go before issuing the yellow.
Simple nonsense!

I would certainly agree that the “extra” officials (the ones on the goalline) were intimidated by the crowd. The free kick that led to our goal, was a bit of a nonsense tackle really. I reckon it wasn’t aee kick, but ref looked at the extra official, who blankly stared back at him, then whistled for us. At which point the extra official stuick his stick up in the air to agree with him.
That happened a good half dozen times.
In fact the only decision that particular official did make was the JC handball.

I’m surprised no one is mentioning the disallowed goal??? For me that was an apalling decision.

No… the ref’s decisions weren’t guided by the “letter of the law”. He was letting blatant fould go, or waving play on. but giving silly little bumps as fouls, AND giving the supposed offenders a good ticking off.
I also don’t entirely agree with the intimidation accusation, for the most part… some decisions looked like they’d been given under crowd duress… but if that were the overall case, he wouldn’t have given stupid stuff our way too.

To me, assessing the decisions he gave, and those he waved on, for both sides, it had all the look of someone giving enough decisions both ways, to make it look like he wasn’t match-fixing!

But its all water under the bridge now.

Does anyone know the officiating rules for these Europa games?
Are we stuck with the same fellas at Anfield?
Or do we get new officials?
That could make the difference.

@Diggerno:

Yes. It was a very good article.

Back to yesterdays match:

After watching Barcelona vs Arsenal i was thinking how Rafa plans to build a Liverpool side which will put on such such footballing masterclass game in and game out. I seriously believe that he can do it.. we have to give him the time to develope the academy youngsters.

Yesterday i think we produced one of our best away performance. Babel was shown the red on 30th minutes. Before that we were doing quite well. Torres and Gerrard were looking sharp. So if we consider the referre,the partisan crowd,the delicate and feeble Aimar and the missed chance by Torres i think we did quite ok. A 1-0 will do it for us but i think we will see more goals in the return leg. Going for a 3-1 home victory.

Big match against Birmingham coming up. YNWA.

Errr…. Aitch, that’s the whole point. The ref used the letter of the law to send Babel off but didn’t apply in the case of the Benfica players.

He saw the chance to send Babel off and took it, but bottled it for the clattering of Torres that lead to the Babel incident, and, as you say, went on to bottle it in the case of home players after that.

If this ref is a real “homer” perhaps it won’t be a bad thing if he’s in charge for the 2nd leg?

I’ll stand (or sit as is the case) corrected Aitch
i could have sworn the kid was a red, but who am i with jam-jar glasses and a 42in tv but i think i’ll have to go for another eye-test as i thought the kid had grey hair, fuck Aitch even Pat Nevin was rooting for us and that bluenose never has anything good to say about us, no i meant what i said in my e-mail, i’ll never watch another game on that muppet channel.

Well yes Steve, technically, hand to the face is a red.
But then the “letter of the law” states that Lisuao had to go too. (he gave the ref 2 reasons to send him.)

If you get to see it again… take a good look.
The Ref wasn’t going to give Lisuoa a yellow, until the fracus kicked off.
He only showed him the yellow, to justify giving Babel the red.

By the “Letter of the Law”, Lisuao should have been given a straight red for his challenge on Torres.
But okay… let’s say you have a lenient ref who doesn’t want to go there that early in the game.
…But he still has to show the yellow for the tackle.
Once Lisuao grabs Babel and starts pushing him… he has to be shown red, even if its only a 2nd yellow… he has to go!
Lisauo started it. Babel said something to him, but Lisuao walked 3 yards towards Babel and grabbed him. He’s gotta go!
That would be the letter of the law.

And, I’d disagree he was a “homer” Steve.

Yes he was calling us for nothing tackles, where their players would just fall over.
But he was also letting us clatter the fuck out of them on occasion and waving play on.
And he was doing the same thing in our favor.

There was no rhyme or reason to it. That’s the kind of perfromance designed to cover-up a match fix, coz it makes the allegation hard to prove, in that he gave decisions that made no sense both ways.

But you look close (position of free-kicks given and timing of decisions) and the significant decisions went their way.

But like I said there’s nothing we can do about it now… except hope he isn’t in charge of the return leg.

Super blog Gerry by the way i didn`t say when i commented last night but a good read as usual.

Just a word on Ryan Babel.His attitude has indeed changed considerably.Weather its for the benifit of the world cup or not we don`t know but if he`s putting a shift infor us then it can only be good for the team.

He`s still to reach the level we know he`s capable of.In fact he hasn`t really terrorised any full backs of late but the telling factor is thats he`s willing to fight for the team and do his donkey work when asked.If he keeps working hard he can change a few opinions of him as i for one was in the “get rid” camp.If he makes me eat humble pie then i gladly will.

The sending off will be a slight set-back for him but i`m sure Rafa will keep faith with him on sunday.

I think the Javanovic deal is almost done,subject to a work permit.Weather he`ll cut the mustard or not remains to be seen but its another option up front so on a free we won`t say know.

Axchoice,

Riera should never wear a red shirt again.He should have been suspended indefinately.I`d rather play david amoo from the youth team ahead of him.At least the lad would show respect for the jersey and give his all.
Riera has gone away down in my estimation and i can`t wait to see the back of him.We don`t need pre-madonna`s in the squad.

Should have read “won`t say NO”

GERRY,WE NEED AN EDIT BUTTON!

AITCH, if were talkin letter of the law then your right our 2nd goal should have stood, kuyt clearly never touched the ball and did not interfere with any defender..goal no question, i was amazed by the foot on babels head at the start of the game, how he missed that i,ll never no.

I’m not going to slate Babel, lets face it if your mate wo
n’t stand up for you after a tackle like that he shouldn’t be in the team.
.
I thought the lads played well and Torres should have scored. Alas though it was not meant to be.
.
Cara must stop leadin with his arms it is a dangerous habit for a leading defender.
.
Anyway onwards and upwards and hopefully it will be like my first experience at Anfield last week against Sunderland, swift and surgical. Take them apart, quickly in a national health service kind of operation.

I think it’s a bloody joke that Babel got sent off. I mean of all the players on the team, despite his size and strength he couldn’t fight his way out of a wet paper bag. He’s a big wuss is our Ryan.
If he was going to get sent off in a situation like that he should have decked Luisao, a swift uppercut to the jaw or better still to the nose to draw blood. Screw up Luisao, get a straight red, stand there and mouth off at the rest of the Benfica team and naturally some nutter on the benfica side tries to whack you one as well and also gets a straight red. So simple really. The numbers get evened out, Luisao gets what he deserves and you’ve got free pints from Nando next time out.
But sure we all know Ryan hasn’t got a brain in his head.
Not that I’m advocating violence or anything like that of course …..

Heh heh! You havent played Gaelic Football by any chance Dougle?! The big pre-game pep talk up and down the country before every junior B game: ‘Right lads listen up….lads, lads….LADS! Pull it in here a minute!! Right lads, not an inch here today, NOT A FUCKEN INCH!! Doya hear me?! (aye, yeah, etc) Get stuck into them from the fucken start lads, from the start. Drive into em, walk through them, let them know your there! If one mans in, we’re all fucken in! (YEAH!!) And remember lads, enjoy ye’reselves!’

red kelly, the ref didn’t miss the kung-fu kick, he was fuckin looking right at it for chrissake, and just let it go. And our lads were so shocked, they barely reacted to complain.

THAT was when the ref lost control. It was the tackle that set the tone, and you could see Benfica as a team thinking, “fuckin ‘ell if he let that go, let’s have at them.”
That was a red card if ever I’ve seen one… but at the very least a yellow… and he didn’t even give a fuckin free kick, or have a chat with the player after the fact.

Not 10 minutes later you get that horror tackle from behind on Torres. And we wonder why Babel was having words and got involved.

And frankly, we were lucky it didn’t fuck Torres up. That could easily have been a leg breaker, but fortunately (if you watch it in slow-mo) Torres had lifted his feet just as it came in.
If either leg had been planted, he’d be fucked, coz the lad just twatted straight through from behind.

Anyway, we’ll be bruised and battered and a bit shagged for Sunday, so Rafa’s got some thinking to do on his team selection for the Brums, on their turf. Haven’t they only lost 2 home games all season or something like that?
A week to rest on the back of a last ditch-point-rescue last week against the Arse will have give them a bit of a lift.

As fro what Rafa’s gonna do for the return leg with both Babel and Insua out, Maxi unavailable and Riera having spat his dummy, is anyone’s guess??

The tackles on torres were a fucken disgrace..its been happening all season, i thought stiking someones face was a sr8 red but babel just put his hand softly on..its akin to a mild pat on the head which we see every week, as for this weeks game maxi and benny will be fresh , iam loath to move dagger to feft back cause the boys playing well and back to his best he certainly gave the ref a sray the other night in his own language by the look of it…was a tad worried ..especially the way he was dishing out cards, so maybe rafa will bring in hercules and put aggar on the left, actually that might not be a bad move as he likes goin forward and has a crackin left peg.

Aitch where do you get to watch the Europa lge games over here in the States?
FSC isn’t showing them..

“Nowhere within the laws of the game or any FIFA guidelines is there any mention that raising the hands in the manner of Babel is deemed violent conduct.”

That is a quote from a qualified ref!

I agree with BM again (what the fuck is going on here?), if Babel stays on I think that we would have got at least a draw. I just hope that Nando is OK for the birmingham match.

Also, was Aimar not offside initially for their first goal ala Kuyt? As for him kicking Babel on the head. How was that missed!

Once I seen the red, I just thought to meself, here we go again.

The ref was a disgrace but he did not manage to put us out of the tie. I have a feeling that the boys will be up for this at Anfield!

No more glory hunting millionaire referees though.

Have to be positive 2moro and resist the urge to play both Lucas and Masher.Stick Babel and Benny/Maxi on the flanks with DK and FT up front.Play 2 holding midfielders and you can kiss 3 points and fourth spot adios.
If Fab is fit, he could play left mid and Bab could move wide right.Defence has to sharpen up.

ManUre 1-2 Chelski FT yippee!!

Yeah. Offside goal by Dogbreath. Adds more to the sweetness of the result. Of course, they won’t mention the penalty that Chelski was denied

Sunderland 3 – Spurs 1. Cracking goal from Agent Zenden. Something similar from Burnley will do quite nicely.

And Arse has just nicked it.

I’m still dreaming of this:
1) We win Eurpoa
2) We get 4th
3) Manure gets knocked out by Bayern
4) Manure gets 3rd

Then we’d have done better than them this season, since they’ve only won Carling Cup

As so often before we are getting favorable results from opponent fixtures. Now we have to deliver tomorrow…

Agree with the general consensus; we have to go at them full blast from the go. Birmingham home record is good and that’s mostly because they’re happy to dig in and defend.
Would like to see Gerrard partner Masch in midfield and Benny getting a run playing off Torres up front. Having said that, I don’t know if he has the fitness to play 90 min?
As for the wings I think Maxi has been coming on with every game and Babel, although not exactly setting the world alight, should be kept in the starting lineup.

All will be revealed – come on you reds!

Burnley 0-5 Man.City HT Bah!!

ax… I want in on some of that dream action! Put me down for 1, 2, 3 & 4!

Redscouse,
If you have Directv (or know a bar that has it) They show all the CL and Europa games on their freeview channels 460-466

Someone throw in the towel, so the ref can stop the slaughter of Burnley.

Ax, I,ll go for that scenario…bring it on!
Regarding the game against Benfica – nothing much to add to all your comments, except that I smashed a couple of glasses (at home) out of frustration & I just hope that the Anfield faithfull will help us to beat the crap (literally & figutitavely) out of these Portuguese fucks! Their crown definetly influenced the officialls & we need to be at our best at Anfield.
Great result Spurs losing, bring on B’ham!
And fuck Riera – he should never don a Red jersey again!

gonna be tough but we really have to go for it with city winning 6-1 we need to win all our games and score a good few while were at it. i did that bbc predictor thing the lads were doing,i have chavski, manure and the arse all on 82pts with the chavs winning on goal difference! and us, spurs and shity all on 68pts with us finishing 4th on goal diff aswell! freaky shit. think ill throw a tenner on it.

Good results in general today.Couldn`t really expect more.

Not surprised city won at burnley.I had them down for 3 points there.There bubble burst as soon as Owen Coyle said adios and there home form isn`t what it was at the start of the season.

Sunderland did us a massive favour at the stadium of light putting three past spurs and it will be a setback for them big time considering their next three fixtures in the league.

Villa had a decent win but i expect them to show their usual inconsistancy in the run in.

Massive game tomorrow,they all will be but i feel this is arguably our toughest assinment.Tough place to get three points and if we can do it i see us doing the business to the end.

Have to take advantage of the spurs result and match the 3 points villa and city got.

Feel sorry for the mancs,they were robbed.Drogba was well offside.Neville looked pissed off.Feel sorry for him too.Great pro.

Have a butchers at this lads….

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZNzsru3MaQ&feature=player_embedded

Of all the wallys on that show and the shite that comes out of their mouth i`ve a bit of a soft spot for Kammy.

Funny man.

Tonight all four clubs havevp

nice one tim kam is cool. nev yea what a cun.. i mean pro…

Re-Timmy 91, that’s terrible that Manure has endured yet more injustice. I think I feel really sorry ok. Shame.
I think I’m gonna cry. Anyone else fancy a cry ?
No ? !

timmy, did you see the Sunderland game?
Sunders should have well embarrassed them 6-1.
Disallowed goal that there was fuck-all wrong with.
And 2 penalty saves by Gomes.
Not one… mind you… but two??
By fuckin Gomes???

If that don’t tell us everything we need to know about how utterly fuckin bat-shit-bizzare this season has been, then I don’t know what will!

If I’d typed that 2 days ago, you’d have all had a good laugh and awarded me the April Fools Day “Post of the Day” Award!

As for feeling sorry for Man U. or any of their players (especially Neville McNobhead!) if the earth suddenly opened up and called them all home to Hell, I’d be hard-pressed to shed a tear for the innocent bystanders who got sucked down with them.

I know some will say that’s a bit harsh… but if you’re gonna live that close to the Devil’s Playground, you’ve only got yourself to blame!

Just wiped away me last tear (of laughter) there dougle.

No Aitch, i didn`t see the spurs game yet.I was working today but the Arse game was on the radio and the spurs game reports were coming in.I swear when Bent missed the two spotters i thought they`d be made to pay.Crouch scored then and i thought that was it,they`ll get something.Credit to sunderland for pulling away so i`m waiting for match of the day now so i`ll see it then.

Dougie your post at 91 was a classic. I fancy a cry followed by a pint.

Zenden got a beauty.

Well in bolo

So did Sunderland get as many Premier League penalties today as Liverpool have all season ???

Well with Chelsea going top and us having yet to play them I just wanted to through this out there. If it came down to it would you rather we take points of Chelsea and secure 4th if it meant ManU winning the Prem or would you rather miss out on 4th if it meant that Chelsea won the Prem?

Red4life

I’ll rather we miss out on 4th if it means that manure don’t win the title. I am, however, hoping for the best scenario of all – manure don’t win the title, get kicked out of the CL whilst LFC finish in 4th place and win the Europa League. That’s not too much to ask, is it? Lol

Red4life, Let’s hope Chelsea are at least 4 points clear before they come to Anfield in May.

That way we can beat them and they can still secure the title by winning their final game (at home)

Arsenal won’t win it, I’m afraid. Too many injuries to key players and too far behind on goal difference. For them to pull it off now it would take a minor miracle, but I hope they finish 2nd and above the Mancs.

From the Beeb webshite:

-o-
Manchester United boss Sir Alex Ferguson was furious after a controversial Didier Drogba goal helped Chelsea to a 2-1 win at Old Trafford.

United’s Federico Macheda scored to set up a tense finale, but Drogba’s strike, from what appeared to be in an offside position, proved to be a vital winner.
-o-

No handball then! LOL.

Looking for that meself Ax #84. Come on Brian Munich!

a few comments from our latest signing.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/audio/2010/03/30/2860200.htm?site=perth

haven’t comment in a while – but few points:

1) great to see Chelsea beat the Scum – you see guys? Fergie’s team don’t always get the decisions go their way?

2) Sunderland’s victory over Spurs gives us hope but that leads me on to point number..

3) It’s Do or Die today at St Andrews’s – I know they haven’t been beaten there since September but we HAVE to win to keep 4th alive

Oh and Bayo – we should only worry about our own clubs fortunes – saying you’d rather us not get fourth if that meant Utd didn’t win the league – is a bit silly.

So it was not a deblierate hand-ball for their 1st goal then AGP?

Arthur,

With regards to (1) in post #107, a single example of a bad decision doesn’t merit your explanation that they’re not favoured. I’d say the number of decisions that go against them occurs about as frequently as a Lucas Leiva goal. Contrast that with the ridiculous amount of extra time given during the Manchester Derby this season, and their non-penalty against us and you can see the scales weigh differently.

This season has been extremely disappointing in terms of Ref decisions against us.
(1) Penalty not awarded against Spurs
(2) Penalties against us, e.g. Manc game
(3) Beach Ball
(4) Red cards not dished to Blackburn, Everton, Benfica, etc

Many of us are very frustrated that our team is not doing well, and (I believe) are thinking that getting 4th would be a bonus given all the unfavourable decisions and injury problems.

So for them (and myself) to hope that the Mancs don’t win anything substantial this season represents a minor consolation to soothe over the pains already suffered is quite natural in my opinion.

As regards whether I’d throw away 4th so as to prevent manure from securing the title, I think they will have thrown it away themselves before it comes to our game with chelski.

This manure squad has definitely been overperforming – or mainly neville’s favorite scouser has been in the form of his life.
I detest the tramp in all ways possible but he knows how to set a spark in his teams but I think their tanks are running low and won’t deliver on the run in.

And despite of all the transfer rumours I think fergie’s ‘I don’t need to buy players’ line last year was just smoke. They simply don’t have the dosh.

Back to our lads – attacking lineup although Babel has been left out. Here’s to 3 points any which way!

Interesting lineup;

The Liverpool team in full: Reina, Insua, Johnson, Carragher, Kyrgiakos, Lucas, Gerrard, Rodriguez, Benayoun, Kuyt, Torres. Subs: Cavalieri, Agger, Aquilani, Babel, Ngog, Degen, Mascherano

(1) Masch rested and replaced by Lucas
(2) Dagger rested and replaced by Hercules
(3) Benayoun given a game to step up to match fitness in my opinion

Rafa is clearly taking risks now. I certainly hope we’ll knick it this time.

Guys,please support the team and the manager fully. YNWA

get in

get out

I know Rafa must have one eye on the Benfica game midweek but surely Torres off with 25 mins to go gives Brum the incentive and confidence to go on and win the game?

Fingers crossed Ngog can nick one!!!

Why oh why does Rafa persist in Ngog he’s hopeless.
1-1 FT.

Not again! If villa win their game in hand we go down to 7th. Ngog is useless.

Call me kneejerk but I will say what is probably on everyone’s mind. There better be a bloody good reason why Rafa took Torres off in a untypically early substitution. I am not angry at Ngog because he played to the best of his ability and on another day may have knicked a goal out of the multitude of chances he had to bury one. Because of those glaring misses though Rafa will be slated and Ngog will become the new scapegoat. If we are up 2 or 3-0 yeah rest Torres for the Benfica game. But if he isn’t injured you don’t take off your best hope of scoring a goal with the job half done and throw in a young player in such a pressure game! I’m starting to lose it here but ai am trying very hard to comprehend what just went on and the logic behind the substitution. Now we cannot afford any more slipups. Not even our home ge against Chelsea.

I read from the yahoo sports live update that Torres was nursing an ice pack at his feet. Wonder if that might be the reason.

Well, Ngog almost scored on 2 occasions, and I’m surprised people called him useless / hopeless. I think it’s one of those days again, considering Maxi had a shot that hit the bar in the first half. I can understand everyone’s frustrations, but please give this young man a break!

Complete and utter bollocks! I just had to say it. You can see it in the body language of Gerrard and Torres. If this was Rooney he would have vented his frustration so that the whole world would have known about it. These are very testing times. Maybe Rafa is getting the team frustrated to the point where they will vent all that pent up frustration out onto Benfica. Who am I kidding!

This season is breaking my heart. over and out. i’m away to get fucking pissed and try and blank out what has become a season from hell:-(

So many chances created, it is sad that none were taken. It has been that type of season so far, so not much to complain about.

The espn commentators on the game went on and on as if they knew for a fact that all the chances that fell to N’Gog and Maxi would have, with full certainty, fallen to Torres as well. As if it were that simple an explanantion.

Sad week for us fans, the only silver lining was the mancs beaten. I wouldn’t mind not qualifying for CL next season as long as the mancs don’t win the premiership this season. If ever it boils down to us having to lose to Chelsea in ensuring we are not knocked out of our fuckin perch, I hope Rafa fields the reserve team for that game!

Guy’s,
apparently Torres has a knee injury according to sky.
Kristur, i’d throw away my grandmother if it meant the ever so lucky mancs won fuck-all, anyway after todays result it is going to take a miracle for us to finish fourth as its out of our hands as it has been for a while now.

If Torres isn’t carrying a knock, then it would be a strange decision, but one that almost paid off.

Remember Lucas replacing Gerrard in the derby some years ago and it was Lucas’ shot that Neville did a Gordan Banks to deny a goal? The result was we won the game with the penalty that followed.

Fast forward 2010. Now it’s Ngog replacing Torres and he too had a one on one during injury time but he missed. If he’d gone in, then the gamble has paid off.

Moral of the story: when taking risks, sometimes you win, sometimes you don’t.

Eggnog is young and a good reserve at the moment.He scores a few goals but cannot maintain top class pressure,misses easy chances and should not be in the first team.
I do agree that Rafa made another mistake when he took off Torres.
Rafa is too cautious with a lot on his mind but as a dictator that’s his own fault. He’s gone backward IMHO and I feel downhearted at this stage with time not on my side.

Jack,

Ngog is young and I think he deserves more chances given his relatively good goal return and effort put in matches. Remember that he’s under tremendous pressure in this game to replace Torres so early, and especially at Birmingham where the fans haven’t forgotten his dive earlier in the season.

I’m finding it strange that before the game everyone is crying for Rafa to field Gerrard in midfield to play a more attacking game, which he did, except that he used Lucas instead of Mascherano.

Now that the substitutions have not paid off, even with suggestions that Torres might have taken a knock (read #122 from theredman), everyone’s back to slagging Rafa again.

Let’s wait for more facts before jumping in to hack the gaffer to pieces. It’s always easier for us to say things with hindsight…

Torres has a knee injury? He seemed to be walking around fine after the game and didn’t receive any treatment of note while he wad in the bench. Gerrard and Torres both had the “you have got to be kidding” expession on their faces. He seemed very frustrated coming off and in the bench. Anyway we will need him fir the rest of this wretched campaign to stand any chance.

Ok, Yokohama fan, you’ve watched the game but I haven’t. So I think you’re at a much better position to judge the game than me.

I totally agree with you that we need Torres firing till the end of the season.

Taking Torres off was perhaps the ballsiest thing rafa has done since he pulled SG in the Everton Derby a few seasons ago.

Far from “cautious” that was was one big ballsey, roll of the dice… and he knew he’d get slated the minute he did it.

but let’s not let our emotions cloud our judgement here.

Torres spat his dummy the moment the first tackle came in on him today. His body language throughout the game was attorcious and pretty much every time he got the ball, he gave it away int he simplest of fashion.

Now don’t get me wrong.
This isn’t a bag on Torres post.

It is my prediction that this lad is gonna get seeriously… and I do mean seriously injured… soon.
Some of the tackles that ref’s allow defenders to make on him are horrendous.

But having said that, he has now started to go to ground rather easy in certain situations …and again, i don’t really blame him for this… he’s probably exasperated… and with all due cause!

but I’ve made this argument about SG before.
Of course they are both players who only need 1 minute to change a game… but the way Torres was playing today, it was like we were playing with 10 men.
When Ngog came on, he immediately set about dropping deep for the pass, turning with the ball and trying to make something happen.

Yes okay, the kid missed 3 very good goalscoring opportunities (one of which came from a sublime bit of chest control) but Torres has missed a few sitters too you know.
The breakaway v. Benifca?
How about the 2 scuffs v. Scum … when it was far easier to score than miss?

Had Torres stayed on, it might well have been a good bet, he’d score… but the way he was playing, it was certainly no guarantee.

The simple fact is… we didn’t play very well today.
Far too many simple 10 yard passes going astray.
Too many errant balls.
And far too much sitting off them in the 1st half.

That should read on the bench. Hate typing on these bloody iPhones. Nothing against Ngog or Rafs if Torres indeed carried a knock but you cannot help but feel the elements are conspiring against you with the timing of the injury, crossbar by Maxi and another shot being blocked by Aquilani’s arse and all the fluffed opportunities. The only bit of luck was that Bowyer missed a sitter as well. Fingers crossed Arsenal and United can take all 3 off Citeh despite their injury problems.

Injury or not, Rafa made the call and I am sure he thought it was the best decision at that time. IF N’Gog had scored the winner, then it would have been a masterstroke. In this case, N’Gog missed the chances that came to him, understandably given his age and inexperience. But he did give his all in the game and that is important, just another one of those games. We will never be sure that all the chances that N’Gog got in the game would have fell to Torres who I feel was shackled by the defence, and probably N’Gog got them because he is not Torres. We will never know whether if Torres were to have played the full game, he would have scored a goal. But yes, Torres is logically a better option than N’Gog in a game.

The root of the problem is the question of why we don’t have a better player than N’Gog to come as a substitute for Torres. And everyone knows the answer. Until the two farkin owners don’t change this situation, we will never see a 20M striker coming in as a substitute when needed.

what a fucking lunatic. take off one of the best players on the planet with 25 mins to go when we need to win every game. if feel sorry for the fans who traveled to that game he should apologise to them. i dont care how he’s playing he only needs one half-chance and its in the net. who’s he trying to prove a point to?? gerrard, torres, the owners, the media, the fans?? what a clown, five league games left fuck off with resting players who gives a fuck about the europa league he should be going balls out to save this club from having to play in that shite next season. goodbye rafa its been nice but ur time is up.

Ok Torres wasn’t having his best game and neither was Benayoun. Perhaps it would have worked had we taken off Kuyt or Benayoun and throwing Ngog up front With Torres to give their defenders more to worry about. I was pleasantly surprised to see Aquilani back from injury. Maybe Rafa’s comments about his pain threshold actually worked.

Well it was tough to understand why Torres was substituted. But according to me Rafa was happy with the draw.

As per his post match interview 5 wins + 1 draw will do us good. We have drawn that one game which means Chelsea will not be allowed to take any points from Anfield.

As much as we blame him for the substitution, i think we ended up creating more. Ngog was fresh and moving well which led to a lot of openings.
It cud easily have been a masterclass from Rafa.

Lets keep the faith on Rafa.

With the exception of the Sunderland game we are not playing at the kind of level required to beat Chelsea. With Malouda (who should be at Liverpool) and Drogba firing on all cylinders they will take some beating.

somnath.. you say it was tough to understand… and then you explain EXACTLY why Torres was substituted!

We were playing with 10 men for a good portion of those 60 minutes Torres was on the field.

how about a little objectivity fellas?

We all love the lad.
No one is arguing the idea that he only needs 1 minute to score… but his head was NOT in the game today.

He was bitching at the ref every time a Brum player came within a yard of him. (and I’m not suggesting he doesn’t have cause… as I said above, he gets mauled and refs let it go, but still…)

He gave the ball away cheaply… and I mean very cheaply… the majority of times it came to him…
…at one point about 5 minutes before he was taken off… SG raked him a pass, and he turned and simply passed the ball past his defender to one of their center backs 5 yards away.
It wasn’t a misplpaced pass… there wasn’t a red in the vacinity! He just gave the ball away and shrugged, like he didn’t give a shit.

If anyone else had put in that performance you’d be sharpening your fuckin new ropes!

lets not keep the faith lets take our heads out of the sand. someone posted on the main site that we havent won away from home since 29th of december!!! just checked and he’s right we havent won a single league match away from home in 2010. its now april. that is unacceptable. its over we need a new man with new ideas. this cannot be allowed to continue into next season.

29th of december!!!!!! im in shock.

@Aitch

Yeah it was tough to understand for me. Then watching the match on the tele, i could easily see we were creating more chances.Ngog was everywhere. That was my observation and hence my conclusion was that it cud have been a Rafa masterclass so easily.

@All

Please dont make this substitution a big talking point. When Rooney was substituted by SAF,he just underplayed it in his post match interview. Rafa has done the same. The media will as usual pounce on him.Atleast we the supporters can prevent that from happening here in this forum.

@Guinnessdrinker

Do we have any idea what you are saying? Tell me the name of the new man who you think can take us to the next level? I can tell you that even if someone new comes,it will take minimum of 5 years of rebuild given our finances.

Dont loose your head. I know we all are dissapointed with the result but Rafa Benitez has a lot of things in place. He has worked hard all these years to take LFC to their old winning years. His tactical acumen combined with the work which is being done at the academy will surely reap results.

I dont stay at UK. From whatever i have read and understood,Rafa benitez is building something great for the future. We got to give him time. Had the american owners not come to the picture,Rafa could easily built a better team. Lets understand the problems he has faced.

what! taking off the best striker in the world when ur drawing should’nt be a talking point. come on mate try telling that to the people who shelled out good money and travelled to birmingham to watch yet more tripe.

@GD

Well if you want it to be a talking point then face the facts. He was not playing like the best striker in the world today. Moreover he was on a ice pack immediately after coming off. I believe he was slightly injured.

The reactions of Gerrard and Torres himself suggest that they were surprised but then which player will not want to play for 90 mints?

Regarding the implications, i have mentioned earlier..Rafa was happy with 1 point. Thts my feeling.

mate he’s had six years to build his team and that team is gonna finish 5th or 6th give him a few more years and we’ll win the league alright. the championship. its over.do you think martin o neill or jose could finish in the top 6 with the same group of players? if the answer is yes then how could it be worse than this.
what are you so afraid of if rafa leaves? the club will still be here so will the fans the sky wont fall in.

@GD

Well.. I am not afraid of Rafa leaving. What i am saying is be it Jose,Martin or Rafa,as long as the money is not there, nobody cant do anything.

Given the pathetic performace of the club in the last 3 transfer windows(at a time when Vila,Tottenham were growing stronger and ManCiteh got new owners)it is not a surprise to see the club in this position today.

Our building process with quality players stopped back in the beginning of the last season. All i am suggesting is once the ownership of the club is sorted and some serious money is given to spend,Rafa will be in the best position to build compared to the other names u have suggested.

Fact is, Nando was playing shit and we created much more when Ngog came on.The fact we never scored a second goal was not the main reason we came away with only 1 point, the reason is that we defended atrociously to concede the goal that we did. If we had backing from the money men I would want Rafa for the next ten years plus.

i dont know about that what clubs are spending huge money these days? madrid and city thats it. fact is we’ve outspent 95% of clubs in europe in the last 5 years and where are we gonna finish this year? when the dust settles one man will take the blame just like at every other team sport in the world when it goes tits up the manager bites the bullet. the owners are lying toe-rags and we all want them out but we should also want a team that can win away from home too no?

Lads i didn`t see the game,i had to work.Outside the Torres substitution did the team as a whole actually play well?

GD says it was tripe?Was it.Tripe to me is portsmouth away,wigan away,reading etc.

Or did the team play well in general and just didn`t take their chances.

guinessdrinker,

Here we go again on Rafa spending more than most people. Fact is, he had to sell to buy for so long, and worse still, he even had no money to buy despite selling in the last 2 transfer windows!

If you want to compare Rafa’s spending with Unirea or Peterborough (after all they belong to the 95% of clubs in Europe you’ve mentioned), then of course he’s spending more than them

You want Martin O’Neil? Are you sure that he’s better than Rafa? Just look at the regularity of Villa fading near the end of the season.

Do you think Maureen would come to Liverpool given the paltry sum that the manager can spend? He left Chelsea once the money starts drying up. In fact, his results in Chelsea dipped once the free flow of transfer money is stopped. So I have reservations about his ability under extreme pressure. He is in my opinion better than O’Neil, at around the same level as Rafa.

You keep on harping about the poor away record. Yes, it’s one of the worst I’ve seen, but please check last season’s away record. It’s not that far away. It’s just proof that Rafa can turn that around as well.

This season has been quite strange. Despite the poor away record, has anyone noticed that we’ve improved our record at Anfield? Shouldn’t we give a little credit to the gaffer and his team for that improvement?

Timmy

Just saw the highlights and we had lots of good chances and half chances but poor finishing cost us. Ngog and Maxi had quite a few chances.

I wonder if today could be a landmark day and if the fans attitude to Rafa may be changing. When Torres was taken off after an hour there was loud and sustained booing from the away fans plus Torres looked bemused and Gerrard livid with the decision.

There’s many ways to slice this thing, agree with Aitch that we weren’t creating much with Torres on the pitch. Things really started happening after the subtitutions, so I for one do not blame Rafa – I’d rather say I am disappointed in Ngog not rewarding the trust placed in him by putting away one of his chances. Yeah he’s young and all that but I couldn’t believe it when he controlled Gerrard’s long ball so brilliantly only to scuff the shot as badly. Tragic.

But how about placing some blame on Aquas arsecheek? That was a goalbound shot from Maxi.

And how about Johnson, where the hell was he for that infuriating shambles of an equalizer?

Well i see the Torres sub is the main talking point i didn’t see the game but listened to the second half while driving and nearly crashed when Gerrard scored i wasn’t that surprised when they scored, who switched off ? but Ngogg seemed to create and miss a few sitters and although he didnt score, neither did Torres in the 60 mins he was on.
Torres then put a ice pack on his knee when he got to the bench.
So for someone as thin skinned as yourself Guinnesdrinker “what a fucking lunatic” is a bit strong dont you think not to mention insulting. Then to follow up with some transfer budget BS which i can’t be arsed to go through it all with you because its been flogged to death.
But did you know i’ve spent more money on food than 95% of Africans and i’m still not fat.
( unlike FS )
Sommath what is it thats changed your way of thinking ? if i remember rightly you was in the anti-Rafa camp but you seem to be looking at a bigger picture now.
YNWA

Digger you once mentioned “aneurysm time” well i came close last Thurs when that match-fixing c*nt of a ref sent Babel off.
BTW Did you see Vidicks little foul on that Bolton player last week,
4 match ban would hurt the Mancs wouldn’t it.
Hasn’t happened though as it, must of been “handbags” as you put it.

YNWA

Aitch #135, agree with you that torres wasn’t in his game. But the bitching at the ref? I remembered only 1 incident in the match (1st half where he was tripped just outside the box near the left corner flag) where he did that. Apart from that, he just played on without talking much.
But it was a baffling decision to take him off though (unless he’s injured which was reported but not confirmed). Remember what happened at Villa?
He was invisible until the 90+ mins where Warnock made the mistake and the ball fell to him and the rest is history.

Not calling for Rafa’s head but at this juncture whrer we need all the wins, it is just baffling to say the least.

Lol! Sorry to hear about your near aneurysm experience Rome! Did you see Drogbas offside goal yesterday mate? Parks penalty claim? Did you see Lee Mason give Sunderland 3 penos and so give our flagging hopes of 4th a boost? Course you did. A man that pays more attention to imagined F.A conspiracy theories than the self inflicted damage of his own team wouldent miss that right?! Lol! Guinness, chin up lad, not much longer to endure the lunacy now mate….

“it’s a fine line between pleasure and pain”. If Ngog puts away any of the wonderful chances he had Rafa looks a genius but alas it did not happen. Rafa unfortunately cannot kick the ball for Ngog, Rafa cannot get Aquilani to move out the way for Maxi’s shot to go in, Rafa cannot increase the height of the crossbar for Maxi’s shot to go in. Rafa’s been fighting with both hands tied behind his back all season and getting punched in the balls by everyone including some of our “supporters”. If anyone else had been in charge of Liverpool this season our goal now would probably be to qualify for Europa League next season instead of still having a shot at the Champions League. In Rafa I Trust.

Digger had to laugh at the Drogba goal just like when Macheda handled the ball when he scored, did you see Nipple’s shoulder barge on Malouda straight pen no theatrics, unlike Park who dramatised it.
Out of the 6 Manc fans i’ve asked none of them thought Valencia’s “penalty” against us was in the box strange you did.
How does Sunderland getting 3 pens equate to helping us it a ridiculous statement ? the pens were all for similar things that happen week in week out against us, but we dont get 3 pens in a match Fathead Bruce might, but not us.
I know you live across the pond and dont really know what “favours” go on in English football or Europe for that matter but its not “imagined” as you put it, it’s very real and if you look into it you’ll start to notice it more it never evens out for the Mancs not that you could ever even it out for Villa in the League Cup final.
What did you think was going on at the Benfica game crap ref or dodgy ref.
YNWA

Fair enough Rome, its not imagined to you. For you I’m sure its as real as Nessie is for its believers. I understand and respect that. What I dont understand is why you persist in soliciting my opinion on every cherry picked, perceived refereeing injustice? I’m little curious bout your obsession with the mancs too! Personally I’m more concerned with our own managers unparalleled ability for self destruction than what a ref did or dident give the mancs. Did Atkinson take off Torres today mate?

#150 rome ya got me there man 95% on food and still not fat i know what ya mean i’ve spent a shit load on stout and i still dont own the brewery but im workin on it . but really its true we have spent good money in rafas time just as we did in geds time it was never hollywood money but it was enough to mount a title challange for both managers. last season was exactly that a solid season where we could have won the title but we did’nt and thats whats making this season so hard to stomach we all know that the players are there to compeat but they havent and i want to know why they havent in pure football terms not accountancy terms. to me and i may be wrong(lord knows i usually am)but is football not a simple game? get good players, instill belief, create team spirit and add some flair will this not usually help you win the next game. to me for the last 8 months we have been lacking all of the basics of the game and for me the blame lies at the managers door.
oh yea and im pretty thin skinned alright im never taken down a peg or two for my beliefs by everyone i know…

Well Rafa has come out to say that he replaced Torres because he believed he was exhausted…

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/8602891.stm

Well…I don’t know what else to say on top of my previous posts. Had it been an injury, I would have been able to come to terms with it but Ngog fresher or not is not in the same league when it comes to finishing. Maybe Rafa should be instructing Torres to conserve his energy more if he is running himself into the ground chasing loose end balls or back passes to the keeper.

He has only played in half this season’s games due to injury so what does it say for all the other players who have been playing most of the season. Shouldn’t Gerrard be taken off and be replaced by Aquilani if he is looking ineffective or sluggish if we are going by this logic?

Maybe a bit more support upfront for Torres or some positive substitutions like Babel, Aquilani and Ngog with Torres still on would have gone a long way to helping him get that vital goal. Now I know on another day Ngog’s substitution may have proven to be a masterstroke but the fact is the lack of experience was evident, he wasn’t up to the task yesterday, it was a lot to ask from him to spearhead the attack alone in such a pressure game and he ended up missing three pretty decent chances which perhaps under less pressure he may have scored. Ngog is often cool and his goals per minute is not bad to say the least but that wasn’t the time to bring him on. If we were 2-1 up with enough momentum to go for another then I will wholeheartedly agree with the substitution and resting Torres for the upcoming Benfica game. On the other hand Ngog and Babel coming on to replace Kuyt or Benayoun to complement Torres wouldn’t have created such uproar as it would be a positive attacking substitution. Maybe all the energy and running Ngog did would have opened up more space for Torres.

We can say it wasn’t our day but it hasn’t been our day often enough this season and not winning an away game since December last year (which is equivalent to half the season) is a shocking run of form for any team not just a team aspiring for a 4th place spot.

We can wine and moan about the owners and the lack of investment but the fact is we are capable of a lot more with the squad we have now especially as our key players are not injured anymore. Man for man we are a much better team than Birmingham and we have to show more ruthlessness and killer instinct from the get go and not scrambling for a goal in the last 5-10 minutes. With only 5 games to go we have to treat each game as a Cup final!

Hopefully with the reported 150 million Adidas investment we can add a few more players that will bring the extra quality in depth needed to be on par with the chasing pack.
If all the money goes towards the debt and Rafa sees none of it then we will have to adjust our expectations and brace ourselves for more frustration and disappointment next season.
http://www.imscouting.com/global-news-article/Liverpool-in-new-150m-mega-shirt-deal-with-adidas/6879/

#147AX- what jose did when he was at the chavs was down to cash even though ranieri coudnt do it, fair enough but dont forget he won the uefa cup and the the champions league with fc porto, how much money do they have and when will they win another european cup??20 years 30 years. man he pissed me off because he was winning with the chavs. but come on the players love him and they’ll run through brick walls for him. sound familiar thats right Shankly had a huge ego and he was a character he took the limelight and took the pressure off the team i think we could do far worse at this stage.

FIRSTLY – GD, great ideas you have there, too bad you forgot that to get those managers you have to pay out Rafa and then pay out their contract (20-30mil of which we dont fucking have.

SECONDLY MY MAIN GRIPE – Steven Gerrard, why you ask? Torres gets subbed for Ngog and you see Stevies body language towards that. Great for Ngog seeing your captain virtually screaming out “Rafa this guy is shit why play him”.

Then Ngog gets booed for every touch and Stevie joins in with the hand flapping and his usual looks when passes dont reach him. (Lets not forget he miss placed a shite load of passes himself).

If thats captain material then we may aswell give the captains armband to every tom, dick and harry.

THIRDLY – The Torres Sub.
Once Ngog comes on, we create 5-6 chances that every other day we;d have scored. 3-4 of those went to Ngog. I hear all these arguments “Well torres would have scored them”, that may be true, but for 60+minutes he didnt get himself into those positions.

Ohh an just to put it out there. I wouldnt want the likes of Mourinho or Moan-neill at our club.

Besides the fact that they are both massive cunts of the highest order, they wouldnt be able to work with a few mil quid a year. Even if they tried, they dont have the resources to do so.

@rome77

I was not in the anti Rafa camp to be very honest with you. I had a problem with his cautious approach. I still believe that he is cautious. Against certain team we can afford to be more adventurous.

A more aggressive manager would have gone for a 4-4-2 yesterday,would have started with Babel-Gerrard-Lucas-Benny in the midfield and Kuyt and Torres upfront.

Rafa needs to address the issue of Torres being poor in the away games this season. According to me, he is not a Drogba or Kenwin Jones who will win those meaningless physical battles. He is good in the air but that does not mean he can always be Reina’s target man. Torres to me will be even more lethal if he can play along with another quality centre forward.

What makes me to keep the faith on Rafa is the numerous other correct things he has done in these 6 years. When i see some of the old matches(2004 and earlier), i can easily observe that we have become much stronger. The most important thing to me is that Rafa is in complete control(Including the academy)from last season only. Every manager has an idea of how his team should play. It takes time to build a team.He built a title winning one(Almost)in 5 years at a time when Chelsea,ManU,ManCiteh,Tottenham were splashing much more cash on players.

The Americans,recession have not helped his cause either. Had those steady $20-25m per transfer window kept on coming, i am sure we wud have won the title by now. Everyone is talking about Mourinho coming and winning us the title. I dont know how he can do it in the current situation and if at all LFC is bought by new wealthy owners, i am sure Rafa is the best man to take us all the way.

@akka

I completely agree with you. Steven Gerrard acted like a child. He was sulking after Torres was taken off.

It was such a shock. I mean he is a senior international player who knows that the cameras are always on him and his reactions. Inspite of that he reacted in a way which will give the media a great chance to malign Rafa. Thats not the way i expect a captain to react.

I hope he can make amends by showing his support next time when he is in front of the cameras.

guinnessdrinker #158,

So you’re impressed with Mourinho’s achievements at at FC Porto, one of Portugal’s biggest club in terms of achievements and history.

I heard there is also a certain Spaniard who’s managed to win its first league title for 31 years, together with the UEFA Cup, followed swiftly by winning the European Cup after joining another big club in the Premiership which has not won the European Cup for 21 years.

Maybe we should also consider this Spaniard…

Its not even with anything to do with the camera.

I gaurantee you most players would have looked at Stevie once the sub was made. You tend to see how your leaders react. Even if it was a quick glance.

Trust me, Ngog would have had a look at Stevie. Im sure the other players and eggnog would have got some massive confidence from it.

I don’t think Valencia can be considered one of the biggest club in Spain aka Porto in Portugal, I might add, guinessdrikner

In 2003, the race for fourth went to the final day, this time the Reds are out of contention with 5 games to play.No away goal all season in the Prem from, Riera, Aurel, Babel and Maxi!,only 2 from Kuyt.Sell the lot and raise some cash.Will Rafa beat the 65 and 60 points Evans and Ged achieved in their final seasons?.Hodgson and McLeish are the obvious choices to take over.

@burgerman

Out of contention with 5 games to play? Gimme a break. Look at the fixtures ManCity and Tottenham have in their hand.

#165 well lets see, were Valencia not in 2 champions league finals on the trot (01-02) prior to rafa taking charge i think you’ll find they were so thats pretty big in my estimation. the portugese league is just a tad better than the scotish league where they have three teams instead of two so to win the
EC with one of those is a big achievement for sure.
ye can try and tart this up anyway you like but the fact is we are cack and we’ll end up excatly where we deserve to be because after 38 games and an away record similar to WOLVES there is no more excuses.( how much money did big mick have to spend? yet they have the same away record as us!! )

We need a ‘super-sub’ and Eggnog isn’t it.
One of the rumours is that Pacheco could be going on loan to Celtic-if that is so, then why not ditch it and try him as the sub for the Reds instead of Ngog?
Let’s face it, Rafa’s not the greatest at recognizing team players.He,or his cohorts,gets rid if Warnock,Hobbs and Riise and gives e.g. Voronin,Lucas etc.,he gives extended breaks to.
Rafa’s tactics are amazing but he can be a stubborn man and not make changes and subtitutions when it’s obvious they should be made sooner.
I seem to be having a go at him and I suppose I am, but he is the best man for the job. It’s just that he seems to make weird choices which don’t come off and is too cautious IMHO.He seems to be a ‘half-empty man’ instead of a ‘half-full man’.
TTFN and YNWA.

Didnt see the match but have a few feelings on it.

Sounds to me that NGog did look more lively than Torres and I agree with some folks here that had he scored, everyone would have hailed Rafa´s tactical masterstroke.

However could Rafa not have kept Torres on AND bring NGog on as well? Sure it would have meant changing our regular formation but who cares??? We would have had Ngog´s energy and enthusiasm and Torres´undoubted ability IF a good chance came along???

Anyway the damage has been done long before these last few matches and I´m not gonna harp on about it anymore. I´m just gonna sit back and see how the next 6 (at least ) games go in this awful season and then I think we can all take stock and see where we go from there

ur right arthur, i’ve been trying to keep a lid on it for months now but that substitution send me over the edge im gonna pipe down now and save it till the seasons over. its gonna be a looonnngggg summer.

So Arthur/Guinness, would you be satisfied after this nightmare season if we got fourth and a trophy?
Would you be willing to stick with Rafa or do you want a change anyway?

@ Somnath/Akka/Ax:
Lovin’ your work…

@Arthur

Well..Rafa is cautious in his approach. He prefers playing one upfront. Thats precisely the reason Crouch went out,Keane didnt fit in. I have mentioned it earlier too,i would have loved to see us starting with 4-4-2. But you got to trust him with his ideas and formations. I dont think we can blame Rafa for his tactical acumen. Afterall this is the same team which finished 2nd last year. It is the players who have underperformed this season.

@McrRed

Thanks mate.

@Arthur

When i say underperformed, here is an example:

Steven Gerrard’s goal yesterday was his first away from home after August 2009. Can you believe it? I cant.

@mcrred 172. i dont think any liverpool fan should consider 4th an achievement but i really hope for the sake of the clubs future that we do sneak it. the europa league would be sweet but the way we are playing i just cant see it happening. now i’ve one for you if we finish 5th/6th/7th and dont win the europa league what would you do?

Digger
“unparalleled ability for self destruction” is that you’re imagination getting the better of you because from what i heard of the game we were much better after the Torres sub and i’m sure if Ngogg had the faith and backing of the fans & his kneejerk Capt he may of got us a win
As for the Manc “favours” it altered the result against us and cost us points and won them the League Cup and thats just in a couple of weeks, but because it conflicts with your agenda you dont want to know about it, fair enough . It won the league for the mancs at our expence last season ( even though you blame Rafa ) and the Chavs expence the year before i could go on but you dont want to know so i won’t bother you with it again.
YNWA

PS “Nessie” it’s only American tourist who believe it still exists 1200 years after it was first ” allegedly” sighted by a Saint.

Fair enough Rome. Sounds good mate.

Digger, so it seems that you think that Rafa will be away in the summer. Perosnally I think, and hope, that he will still be there next season, 4th place or not.

The man deserves the chance after all he has done for the club.

Good red wines in the US? Now there’s a good’un

I just know a bit about French wines and not that much in comparison to the French. The Alsace Pinot Noir is pretty light and you can also stick her in the fridge and it’s just as good. The same goes for Sancere, where I prefer the red to the more popular white.

If you want something with a bit more umph, the Lalandes de Pommerol would be a good choice. Don’t get anything younger than 5 years though.

In general anything from the regions cotes de nuit or cote de beaune, and you should be OK. Just make sure that it has ‘appellation controllee’ written on the front.

Hope it helps in your search. Now I am going to tuck into a bottle of ‘Cote de Nuits-Villages’.

I have thought long and hard and given the fact that:

a)we probably wont have all that much money to spend and

b) It really is Rafa´s first truly BAD season

I think he does deserve one more season

In saying that, I really do have doubts about the guy and I still wouldn´t be surprised if he walks or is forced out at the end of the season

I do Lurgan. And whats more I think Rafa knows it to. I’ll be disappointed for him personally and wish him well but in my opinion he’s made too many mistakes in the last couple of seasons to be allowed to continue. I also firmly believe that he has lost significant elements if not most of the dressing room making the situation even more irretrievable for him. I told LB before xmas that I reckon either Stevie or Rafa will be leave in the summer. I’ve seen nothing since that makes me reconsider.

P.s cheers for the wine info, i’ll enjoy sampling that lot!

Digger @183
Like your little conspiracy theory Digger have you any examples/proof to back your claim up or is it just your imagination?
” I’ll be disappointed for him personally and wish him well ” yes of course you will Digger.

Its all in my head Rome. Having a bad day mate?

@ Guinness 177:
I refer the gentleman to the (surprise) answer from Arthur @182.

No need to panic just yet.
If we get funds buy some good players and actually have a squad that looks like it can do some damage and we still finish 7th/8th/9th next season then even I would be saying it’s time to call it a day.

As it stands our manager has had both hands tied behind his back so I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt for a good while yet.

I truly believe that stubborness etc notwithstanding, Benitez truly has this club’s interests at heart. No man is bigger than the club. Benitez knows that better than anyone.

And, if the owners/borrowers decided to do one then all the horrors of this season would have been worth it!

People keep saying our best 11 is a match for anyone
but i think it needs improving.

We need a dominant centre half to replace carragher, sentiment cannot come into it.Someone who can form a partnership with agger,who i think is gonna be a top player under rafa’

A quality experienced left back for insua to understudy.

A midfield playmaker to knit play together.if
aquilani is not that man(i think he could be once he settles in)

A pacey winger who goes for the throat with a end product.

And a forward who can play as a lone striker with hopefully a turn of pace.

We cannot go into next season with carra/insua/kuyt/lucas as ist team players they are at best squad players.

As carra bemoaned in his book,every season he would look at the new signings, and consider would these player get into man united or chelsea team and the answer was usually no.

This is how we should look at our current squad players if they are young like lucas & insua time is on there side.lucas imho is mascheranos under study they should never start games together they are to similar & should be competing against each other for a place in the team.

If they are older like kuyt and carrager and on decent wages and not likely to improve.they should be moved on asap or kept as squad players until we can replace them.

We need to start playing the kids like pacheco/kelly/nemeth/bruna give them a taste and see if they can handle it,we need to breath life and competition into the team/squad

I think if we slip further behind our rivals we might never recover.We need investment and we need it now.

If they cant back rafa in the transfer market i think they should stop building our hopes and dreams and just erect a white flag above anfield.

I think rafa has a plan for us and if we dont retain his services were fucked.

YNWA

It does look that there is something wrong with either Stevie or Rafa, becoz clearly there was no forward movement from the captain in the first half.If he had withholding orders from Rafa, it must have been a grave mistake on Rafa’s part else it is Stevie’s game that was disappointing. As we saw late in the second half, it his pivotal attacking threat that keeps us in the bay and is of no greater use when he is held back. I really hope Rafa has not lost the dressing room, the players have also failed in their part early this season and so it is not the best thing to do to single out one person for the blame. The ramifications of Rafa’s subs and methods will be clear by the end of the season and we will know sure if Rafa could lead us again for next year.

Here’s my thoughts on the Brum game
http://bigfourza.wordpress.com/2010/04/05/was-rafa-right-or-wrong/

We do have the World Cup to look forward to in the summer !

Digger,
in my opinion IF Rafa walks or is pushed out then LFC could be in serious trouble, how many of our SPINE of the team will walk with him cos you know yourself thats what primarily happens when the shit hits the fan(pardon the pun)and a manager leaves, look at saggy face Redknap and Martin Oneil the players they’ve took with them.
I could’nt give a fuck about this season now, cos i’m sick and tired of hoping, fuck fourth spot and fuck the Europa cup and best of all fuck the two yanks as they might have to at least sell some shares or miraculously completely sell up and fuck off back over the pond.

Also i think we should practise more on our passing game and movement off the ball to keep possesion.I watched barca against the arse and i dont think you can get that good unless you are practising passing to death until it is second nature.Barca move the ball like brazilians and press like british teams to get it back when they lose it i think they are the benchmark for all teams.its got to be about practise .i’ve always thought the same about the england team the problem is not bad passing its the movement of the players off the ball not making themselves available for the next pass.
What the fuck do i know
YNWA

Same old arguments over and over. Boring.

guinnessdrinker #168,

Rafa inherited a strong Valencia team and hence won its first Spanish title in 31 years. Well, Jose also inherited a strong Chelsea team and won its first League title in 50 years (not sure), and may I add, with unprecedented amounts of money (until then) to spend strengthening the team.

Rafa did not inherit a strong Liverpool team but still won us our first European title in 21 years.

I just can’t understand why you can fault Rafa with all the handicaps he face, and even sprout nonsense like he can spend more than 95% of the clubs in Europe.

Talking about perspective!

Arthur #182,
I fully understand your concerns there. No arguments against them, even your doubts. But at least you understand the circumstances our club is in. Let’s hope things turn out better next season.

I certainly hope we don’t do a Newcastle and sack every manager that doesn’t please some fans, or we ma end up like them or Leeds (given our financial plight).

Digger
I only ask for examples/proof because I haven’t dismissed it out of hand.
I happen to think when Gerrard moaned at G&H it was a example of him not been happy with them his frustration has been there for all to see. Other Examples could also be injuries he’s had, his own form, family issues ,or giving up on the season when we lost too many games, it could also be fear of injury going into whats possibly his last WC.
However if i started my thinking from the Rafa out position like yourself, my train of thought would arrive at the “Rafa’s lost the dressing room” platform, wouldn’t change tracks and probably never leave the station,so i can see where your coming from.
Or not coming from, if you get my drift.

Theredman apart from wanting to win the UEFA Cup i agree with everthing else, 4th spot give’s G&H 55 mill without that life-blood the parasites will soon change host.
YNWA

LB
I think the expression your looking for is ” Same sh*t different day ” :-]

LB when you get the same old problems constantly recurring then your likely to get the same old arguments recurring also. Or as Rome so succinctly put it; same shit different day. Yeah Redman, its certainly plausible, the proverbial shit may indeed hit the fan. But just suppose I am right, how many of our spine will walk if he stays? I dunno Red. Maybe Romes right and I’m looking at it all wrong. Perhaps. Only time will tell I guess. I suspect I’m more correct than I know though. I cant ignore my own eyes.

Ahhhh what a fucken headache, 1st half was so boring to watch and apart from maxi exelent saved effort, look closely the keeper saved it not maxi hitting the bar…anyway it was a yawnfest,the lads looked anything but the must win aproach we have been hearing, 2nd half great goal from stevie he looked alot livlier and i was getting exited..oops wheres our defense????? how many godamn times haqve we scored a goal this season only between 2 and 8 mins later to concede a fucken shocker,,,we had to score a world class goal to get past the brum..we gave them a sitter.

I might be wrong here but i am lookin at cara the role of the centre haf is to taqlk to your defenders or else riena so i am extremly pissed off at the lack of basic defending, maxi had another strong game and we were clearly much stronger but money talks and bullshit walks and were fracking walkin right now!, i was extemly shocked to see torres takin off as was gerrard and rightly fucken so….we needed those 3 points and to say benitiz was happy with a draw is sickening, i doubt gerrards look was against ngog better sense was to take kyut off and play ngog up front with torres let him do some hard run ning and lets be clear ngog didn’t create all his chances the team did, babel played well w2hen he came on as did aqua, we created loads of chances in the last 25 cause we were pushing as we bloody well shoulda been so my guess is torres may well have scored one,, now had eggnog scored then nobody would have minded but lets be honest HE DIDN’T, we are in the results business and clearly benitiz got it wrong..eggnog scored the winner hes right eggnog blew 4 chances hes wrong..end o story really. oh and benitiz needs 1 more season before we panic!
YNWA

Kelly, been over at Guardian Chalkboards. Any idea how many shots Torres had in the time he was on?

1…

…Off target.

That’s why he was taken off. Yes, he could’ve come up with a goal. As others have said there are games where he doesn’t.

To Rafa, no man is bigger than the team: Captain; Star Striker.

Just a shame the kid, Ngog couldn’t convert.

YNWA

Get over it lads.

Even without Torres we could have won it 3-1 or something like that. Its just that things have not gone the way we wanted this season.

I am waiting for a Benfica mauling on thrusday. Torres will be fired up. We stop DeMaria and Cardozo, we go to the semi finals.

Angelo DeMaria- The next big thing according to me. What you all think? Mascherano should try talking to him!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2010/04/rafa_benitez_eh_hes_a.html

Comment 51 sums it all up for me.

Waited a while before I posted, I pretty much expected the comments, but I am pleasantly surprised at some.

The fact remains we played the best football after Torres was yanked. Ngogs sped and movement created the best 5 or 6 chances we had all game. For me the decision, while shocking at first was the correct one. Torres was clearly tired and out of sorts, creating and adding nothing for the team.

Least we forget when a players is tired that is when injuries occur. That the team as a whole could not take the chances is down to the team not the Manager. All he can do is shuffle the deck, implement the tactics and hope his team finishes the job.

His substitution where correct as it was the best and most sustained pressure we created all game. It a different argument that in a pressure situation all we have is a inexperienced 20 year old to throw on instead of an experienced international striker like our immediate rivals have.

Least we also forget Rafa sees Ngog and Pacheco playing for the reserves week in and week out, watching Ngog stick chance after chance away and has come to the conclusion that he is the best option available to him at the moment.

Frustrating for us, most defiantly as he did create some great chances that he could not finish, however Torres has missed easier ones recently and it happens to all strikers. That we deserved all three points is not in question, but for some reason this season will not be kind to us.

The most disappointing thing, as someone mentioned, this season has been our defensive and yet again we let them back into he game with a soft goal. We can scream all we like about the attacking options and cautious approach but until be stop conceding key stone kops goals we will always ship points. Carra for me has been a big disappointment this year, his organization and leadership has not been at his usual high level. Whether that has something to do with the personal or lack of alternatives to rest some players I don’t know. However for a team that normally has the best defensive record in the league we have been poor all season. This more than anything on the other end has been our Achilles heel all season.

14 goals scored away in the Prem is very poor, Shrek has nearly scored as many!.In Evans final season , the Reds conceded 42 goals, will it be much better this year?.Selling Torres has to be considered, no use having a great player who is constantly injured/unfit/tired.He will be banjaxed after the WC.

Rafa is right really.We have 5 more games to win.
I remember the shock I get some years back when Arsenal won the League title by beating Liverpool in the last minute of the last game at our home ground.
I came home from work,to get the score,confidenly expecting a good result, and could not believe the result.A grown man at the time,I nearly cried.

The damage really was done in the previous game against West Ham,when they were allowed to score one goal in a losing game.

In other words-”it is not over until the last game is played!”
Hard at present I know BUT it’s true.
…YNWA.

I think fourth place has gone.

Who really believes we will win five on the bounce.

I have seen no evidence of that sort of form.

I think rafa knows this and is focusing on the europa league so we can at least win something this season.

Personally i think we should scrub around this season and concentrate on next.

YNWA

I believe there’s some more twists and turns this season. We may still get the 4th spot, with 3 home wins (yes I believe we can win Chelsea) and 2 difficult away games against relegation fighters in Hull and Burnley.

Keep fingers & toes crossed.

i have been on that BBC predictor for the last half hour and the only thing i am sure of is this – Sp*rs will finish 7th.

YNWA

For the people that are writing off our chances to finish fourth I think you might be a tad premature.

These are the fixtures that Man City and Spurs can easily drop points:

Man City

The most likely

vs Man U (h)
vs Arsenal (a)

with a chance

vs B’ Ham (h)
vs Aston Villa (h)
vs Spurs (h)
vs West Ham (a) end of season scramble and anything can happen

Spurs

The lost likely

vs Arsenal (h)
vs Chelsea (h)
vs Man U (a)
vs Man City (a)

Aston Villa

The most likely

vs Everton (h)
vs Man City (a)

With a chance

vs B’Ham (h)
vs Hull (a)
vs Balckburn (h)

I would say if we win all 5 remaining games we will sneak in

Well, although I think winning all 5 is a very tall order (given our stuttering away form in the PL to date) the optomist in me say’s that we are well capable of winning our 3 home games (we have won 8 on the spin) and if we can’t win at Burnley and Hull then perhaps we don’t actually deserve to be in the CL?

I think we will win all 5, but we have to hope and pray that Spurs and Man.City both drop enough points to enable us to finish above them (don’t forget they both have a game in hand on us!)

Birmingham to get a point at Eastlands on Sunday while we beat Fulham? Here’s praying!

It’s true that Spurs and City have some very difficult games coming up, so there is hope. Villa could actually still finish above us if they were to win their final six games but I think they still have to play Spurs and Man.City, thankfully.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t00D23R63ig

one man team that barca side!

Imagine this scenario. 4th spot is gone by the time we get to the Chelsea game and we have a Europa cup game the following week so we rest Torres and Gerrard.

It would nearly be worth it to see old Fungusface’s reaction.

Arsenal can concentrate on the Leauge now then!

Interesting points on Rafa`s substitution especially Keith.

I for one was at the time gobsmacked by the decision.The Villa game kept springing back into my mind.The game when Nando was mre or less invisible until a chance fell to him in injury time.

We did create chances when N`gog came on.Yes a lot more than when torres was on.We had control of most of the game up to the substitution without battering them.We made a few chances in that period but more after.

N`gog`s movement did create more chances but maybe Birmingham were just starting to tire a little as we had more of the ball as the game wore on.

We`re all fantastic managers in hindsight but i would have liked to see Rafa bring on N`gog with torres up top.Two up top would have taken some pressure of Nando and given the birmingham defenders something different to think about.

Maybe he could of created one or two for Nando of which there is no guarentee he`d have scored but anyway thats my two cents.

I think people should leave the managers post mortem until at least the end of the season.Whatever way you think of his position its getting really annoying that every time we have a set back this place turns into a rafa out/in debate which quite frankly has been done to death.

Plenty of time at the end to debate when there`s no footy on but i`ll say one thing before i close.

Some people need to wake up and realise the ultimate problem at the club is the two owners.This should be our primary concern and consider when you call for Rafa`s head what will follow.He has spent six years building something here.Revamped the whole academy and scouting system as well as building the first team.OK he hasn`t build it as fast as some would like but we all knoe the reasons for that.Why throw it all away for one bad season.I just don`t think its the answer.

P.S

Absolute masterclass from messi.Pleasure to watch the little magician.

Timmy nice post mate, i would have preffered ngog to have come on to play with torres, take off kyut who ran his legs off but has no real pace, that makes more sense, rafa and tomkins ect ect have stated that nando was fatigued or exhuasted or whatever but clearly he was perplexed/not exhuasted when palled from the park, we have stated many times on this site that last year gerrad was a passenger in many games but provided the crucial goal at the last minute.

Red Kelly,
The Torres Ngog combination is something that I thought of as reasonable, but for some reasons it was not used.

Maybe it’s the fatigue factor that Rafa stated, or some other tactical reasons.

But I don’t think everyone here understands that Rafa took a big risk by subbing Torres. Besides the possibility of lost points (which happened), I’m sure he’s well aware of the backlash from the many experts in front of the cameras and TVs all over the world.

So please support the team till the end of the season. There’s still hope to reach both goals

Axchoice, i will never stop supporting the team and rafa as long as he is the gaffer,and believe me every single game i am bursting with hope for 4th and euro glory….so credit where its due for the job and the numerous things rafa has got right..but critisism when due also and with only 6 prem games and 2-3 euro games, the team should be chompin at the bit . for my money rafa should have spoke to torres at half time and when he was called off the boy would have known…as it was it looked like a rabbit pulled out of the hat….bewildering the team!

Agree totally with you on the communications part, red kelly. That definitely can be improved.

A must read this:

http://tomkinstimes.com/2010/04/a-doctor-at-hillsborough-by-neil-dunkin-2/

something more balanced here.

http://www.goal.com/en/news/1717/editorial/2010/04/06/1865875/liverpool-comment-if-the-reds-fail-to-finish-fourth-rafael?

Swap Maxi and Riera for Messi!.

Maxi takes a leaf out of Gerry’s book
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11095_6079923,00.html?

Lurgan,fantastic read.Brought a slight tear to my eye pal.Another sad story about that terrible day.

Fair dues to that doc and all other reds who did their best that day.

They will never be forgotten along with the 96.

There was another reason;

Didn’t see the match beyond tracking it on a computer at one stage in the second half.
‘Pool 1-0 up. “Good” I thought as I saw the ball slung across our box.
“Where’s the defense” I thought as the ball was bundled into our net.
“Bad” I thought as I switched off the computer.

Back to very important family dinner with a furrowed brow.

So once again it was my fault.
Sorry ’bout that.

2 down, 1 to go. Hopefully. More tears for Manure tonight.

Not sure if this obvious statement needed to be made by Torres at this late stage:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/apr/07/fernando-torres-liverpool

When you actually read the quotes from Nando it has a very different feel than the headline and the slant the journalist is attempting to give it.

Quotes:

“There have been various important factors, like the fact that we were so far off the top of the table so quickly. That killed us psychologically and has stopped us changing the situation. After that, injuries hit us pretty hard and we have felt that a lot. After a good season last year, the team needed certain reinforcements and keep the squad together, but circumstances dictated that we had to sell players and everything got messed up.
“The sale of Arbeloa, Hyypia and Alonso was an important loss. Alvaro was a player who did a vital job for us, always played to a high level and his flexibility was a huge bonus. Sami may not have played every week but he was a 10 out of 10 on and off the pitch, bringing calm to the ground and having everyone’s admiration.
“And Xabi … players like Xabi are very rare. He was the team’s engine and you know that when you change an engine, it takes time to work again.”
“Rafa signed a five-year contract last summer because he wants to improve the club. So I think that this new era of Rafa’s is only just starting,” he said. “Big clubs in Europe always go through difficult spells where it appears as though there is no light at the end of the tunnel. But because they are big clubs, they always come back and they do so with a vengeance. It is just a matter of time.”
Slant by journalist

Headline: Fernando Torres blames Liverpool’s sale of Xabi Alonso for poor season

Opening paragraph:

Fernando Torres has identified the sale of Liverpool’s “engine”, Xabi Alonso, as one of the principal reasons for the club’s struggles this year. The Spanish striker also said the club’s current team were not strong enough mentally to overcome a poor start. Yet despite his damning analysis he said Liverpool could recover with “a vengeance”, with Rafael Benítez as manager.

It’s all about what they do on the pitch between now and the end of the season. All the talking just goes around in circles.

I think the players are doing much talking off the pitch lately.They can still salvage their season by doing the business on it.

C`mon lads one final push.

Would Rafa swap Kuyt for Messi?

LB

Rafa would swap Montes and the kids for Messi

Manure out of the CL. Maybe there’s a god afterall.

Manure beaten by a team that scraped past Fiorentina. Lyon into the semis.

Maybe our group was a bit more difficult than we/most first thought?

They should know 3 is never enough in the champions league, bye bye mancs.
And sing, “always look on the bright side of life”.
Goodnight all i’ll have an easy sleep tonight.

Who was Rafa referring to when he claimed that one player did not perform all season?
Bayo, I was thinking the same too as I watched Bayern edge closer to knocking ManUre out of the Champion’s Cup,even though with Arsenal out it means there is no English team left in the Competition.

Happys the scum r out and how. Watchin them rotten bastards goin buck mad when 3-0 up nearly had me turnin over, but I prayed for that glimmer of hope and what about the clincher!!!
How many times have you seen them volloys sail into the crowd. Well played mr robin.
Really confident we can do these bastards tomorrow I wonder what response we’ll see if nando has a blinder a bags a hat trick. Will Rafa be praised for keepin him fresh or hammered for still bringing him off early on Sunday? Hope were arguing about it tomorrow!

YNWA

I just read a quote from soccernet. Fergie said about the send off that changed the game:
“The young boy showed a bit of inexperience, but they got him sent off, everyone sprinted towards the referee – typical Germans.”

I thought that was typical Man United, usually led by Gary Neville. Chelsea and John Terry also do the same, so I think we can say it is quite typical English as well.

Another interesting fact is that Looney started and limped off after 55 minutes.

Oh I quite enjoyed that….:)

Sweet, sweet result. It’s so good to watch them fuckers suffer. Bayern, we owe you one.

LFC. FIVE times Champions of Europe!

Well done lads, we really needed that. A final is now within sight and how fitting it’s against nandos old club. We played alright tonight but considering it was against a very confident and well organised benfica side I’m delighted with the result. Well done you redmen. Let’s take her home

YNWA