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Well after a long summer we are finally here on the eve of kicking off another Premier League season and while I’m really looking forward to the football, I’m still as confused as a hungry baby in a topless bar and I haven’t got a Scooby Doo what to expect from the campaign ahead.
Off the field things are still as clear as mud. They are apparently interested parties in taking over the club but it’s proving to be a slow process. Now I know about as much about the financial side of the game as Wayne Rooney knows about personal hygiene but appears likely that any takeover of the club won’t now happen until closer to the October deadline when the circumstances will be more favourable for the bidders.
The bid by Kenny Huang seems to be the one with the most momentum and while I can’t say if he’s the best man or has the best finances, I think it’s safe to say that he certainly has the best PR people. He seems to have been painted as the white knight among our bidders but promises of no club debt, a new stadium and all the top players we can eat is something we’ve all heard before and whoever does take over the club will need to quickly start backing their words up with actions if they are to win over the Liverpool fans.
One of the things I found interesting about the Huang bid is that at one stage it was being reported that an investment group representing Chinese government was one of his backers which led to some people expressing concerns about their human rights record. Now don’t get me wrong, human rights is something we should all be concerned about and I don’t have a problem with that, in fact some of my best friends are humans! But I just find it interesting that when we talk to American or Middle Eastern investors, their shabby human right records is never mentioned as a concern. It seems Kenny Huang isn’t the only one with good PR people!
Anyway back to the football and once again the Premier Leagues fixture computer has shown that its anti-Liverpool virus is alive, well and shitting all over us. We start our league campaign against Arsenal at Anfield tomorrow followed by a trip to Middle-Eastlands to face the biggest club in Manchester, then a game against West Brom followed by a trip to bogey side Birmingham and then a trip to the Theatre of Illusions to face the mancs.
It’s a bit of a nightmare start and our preparations have been far from ideal. With the way things worked out with the World Cup over the summer, the manager began our pre season training with only 3 or 4 senior players and a squad full of youngsters to work with. In recent weeks more of our senior pro’s returned but we still have several first team players who returned so late that they haven’t had a chance to get a pre-season game under their belts.
I know it can be said that it is the same for other teams but as ever with Liverpool, our situation is a bit worse than others because we’ve got a new manager still in a “getting to know you” phase and trying to impart his playing philosophy to the players. Even with all of his experience in the game, it’s going to be tough for Roy Hodgson and he could have done with a couple of softer fixtures for the team to find its feet but as things stand he’s going to have to hit the ground running.
One of the big problems with the staggered way that our players arrived back for pre season training is that we now have a squad of players with varying levels of fitness and the manager will need to get the balance right. As far as I know the only way to deal with this is to rotate the side from game to game so I would expect to see a bit of chopping and changing in our early fixtures. However, on the plus side our Europa League games may actually help us in these circumstances in terms of us giving some players a run-out and getting their fitness up to speed.
Earlier I described our early run of fixtures as a bit of a nightmare but of course this will be all determined by results and if we bang in a few wins it would be a dream start. It all begins with our game against Arsenal tomorrow and to be honest, I’m really not too sure what to expect. The main reason for my confusion is because at this stage I’m really not sure who is going to be in the team or even how we are going to play.
In defence, Reina will no doubt return with Glenda, Carra, Dagger and perhaps Aurelio making up our back four. Insua may play at left back but the fact that we’ve already tried to sell him twice would seem to indicate that he’s probably not in our future plans and may yet be on his way before the end of the transfer window. Another player who might well be in with a chance of starting is Martin Kelly, a fine young versatile player who can play anywhere along the back four and I’m expecting this to be his breakthrough season.
We can also be sure that Gerrard and Cole will start but other than that it’s hard to say who else will be starting the game for us but I’ll give you my best guess. Firstly, I wouldn’t want Masch in the team or even in the squad for the game, his head has already left the club and it’s only a question of us getting enough of a transfer fee for his body to join it so I don’t see why we should get him match fit for somebody else and I would prefer for us to stick with the players who are fully committed to being with us this season.
Despite what some other people have said, I think Poulsen is a very good signing for us. He is a hugely experienced defensive, tough tackling midfield player who has played in all the big leagues around Europe as well as having nearly 80 caps at international level. Besides that, he’s comfortable in possession, is a decent passer of the ball and scores an odd goal here and there.
I don’t know why some people are so critical of him. He played 50 games for Juventus over two seasons so he wasn’t exactly the failure there that some people have made him out to be. While it’s true he has been known to have a bit of a nasty streak at times, I consider that a plus point because sometimes I think we are a little too nice and could use a little extra aggression at times.
I’m also a fan of Lucas who I think is getting better all the time and I’m happy to have him and Poulsen competing for a place alongside Gerrard in the centre of midfield. I think I’d lean more towards Lucas starting tomorrow and maybe let Poulsen make his full debut alongside the very promising young Shelvey in our Europa League game on Thursday.
The rest of the team really depends on the fitness of Torres. If he is anywhere near fit I would definitely play him even if it’s only for an hour. Because the sooner the better he gets his match fitness back and starts linking up with the likes of Cole and if he gets through the game we can rest him on Thursday and give him over a week to recover before we play at Man City where he’ll be a lot more effective for us with a game under his belt. So if he plays we can play Jovanovic on the left and Maxi or Dirk on the right, that would be my guess at our team.
However if he doesn’t play it looks like we will have to use Eggnog instead and that changes everything. I actually have a lot of sympathy for Eggnog. Let’s not forget that the lad is still only 21 and a promising young striker in his own right but when Torres is injured or unavailable he is expected to come in and fill the boots of the best striker in the world and then comes in for criticism when he can’t live up to those unrealistic expectations.
If he has to play tomorrow, he could be put into the side as a straight swap in the Torres role but in those circumstances I would prefer it if we switched to a more traditional 4-4-2 formation. We could switch Cole on to the left and let Jovanovic or Kuyt go upfront to give Eggnog some back up in attack. I just don’t think the lad is developed enough or experienced enough to play the lone striker role effectively and funds permitting, bringing in another striker must surely be a priority for the manager before the transfer window closes.
As for the result, I am obviously hoping for a big performance and a good result but this is one of those games where we will really have to maintain our concentration for the full 90 minutes because Arsenal are well capable of pouncing on any lapse on our part. So this one could really go either way but I’m hoping we can get our campaign off to a strong start and build up a bit of momentum so my money’s on a 2-1 win for The Reds and then ring the changes for our Europa League game against Trabzonspor on Thursday. So fingers crossed and C’MON YOU REDS!!
Keep the Faith
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 #1 |
knight
Posted on August 15, 2010 @ 1:43 am
Hi Gerry, Such a pleasure to have you back and hopefully writing regularly again.
I think Torres will be rested because he is still not fully fit. Getting him in the game might complicate and worsen his injury. So it will be Ngog upfront with Cole just behind him. I would play Babel or Aqualani as they are attack minded, can make runs and add strength to the forward line:
Ngog
Cole
Babel (Aqua)-Gerrard-Kuyt
Lucas
Aurelio-Skytel-Carra-Johnson
Reina.
As for predictions, it is a 2-1 win for me too.Cheers!
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 #2 |
ykleong
Posted on August 15, 2010 @ 2:14 am
Gerry, some of my best mates are humans too! That was classic and I was laughing off my chair….
Though we’re going in with different level of fitness of the palyers, I do think that all will give in 110% to impress the new boss plus playing at home helps. Masch should not be in the squad and I’m with Knight that Aqua needs to be featured at some point and provides more creativity. For me, I would like to see Pacheco on the right though he looked a bit out against Robots last week but you can still see some of his runnings and positionings were superb.
1-0 for the reds!
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 #3 |
Gerry
Posted on August 15, 2010 @ 3:31 am
I think the Europa League game on Thursday will be ideal for the likes of Pacheco and some of the other guys who probably won’t get a run out tomorrow, to get another game under their belts.
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 #4 |
Diggerno.10
Posted on August 15, 2010 @ 5:14 am
Great blog Ger, couldent agree more with all your sentiments. Cant wait for tomorrow, really excited about this season. I thought Stevies comments yesterday were telling and give a glimpse into the squads mindset. I think we’re gonna come out swinging tomorrow and I cant fucken wait. Hard to know what team will be selected with all the factors mentioned in your blog but if Nando cant go I’d love to see: Pepe, Johnson, Carra, Dagger, Fabio, Maxi(RM), Lucas, Aquilani, Stevie, Cole and Jovanovich up top. I agree with you on Ngog so he sits for me. Robotniki, Arsenal they aint. Lucas gets the holding nod for me as he’s played all our pre-season games and to start Poulsen ahead of him would be unfair. Mascherano can disappear up his own arse for all I care. I agree Gerry, any man that dont wanna play for us shouldent be near our squad. I’ve put Jovanovich up top instead of Dirk because Derek hasnt played any minutes since the world cup and as a result is probably lacking sharpness which Jova is’nt. By all accounts Arsenal have an injury list to rival ours from last season and with the above team and midfield in particular, I’m expecting us to frighten the shite outta Wengers muppet babies and win 2-1!
I’m really looking forward to this season (have I mentioned that yet?!) and whilst it would be an achievement of Istanbul proportions I simply couldent resist odds of 14/1 so I stuck a 50 on us for the league! Hey who knows? New era, new regime, fresh start, keep em all fit for 10 minutes……..A lad can dream eh? Rafa made us dream again, maybe Roy can build on his foundation and engage in some wish fulfillment? This time next year Rodders……….
P.s, I reckon we’re in for a cracking season from Stevie. Just has that bite back again methinks. Looked like he was going to explode Wednesday night and then spoke about how he dreams about doing that at Wembley for us. By all means lad, by all means. Take it to em Skipper.
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 #5 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 15, 2010 @ 11:03 am
Haven’t time to read the blog or the comments. I’m on me way out the door. I’ll read them when I get back. Just wanted to say… Here we go. It’s off. Good luck to Roy and the lads. Roy deserves and needs our backing just as much as all our other managers got. He gets mine from this point on. It’s off and he’s ours. So that’s that.
I would have been there today. I wouldn’t get in the car with the lads. I have made me stance… no games or merchandise until the yanks are gone. Bastards. I wish they’d just do one. I want to go the match again. Oh well, Come on You Mighty Reds!
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 #7 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 15, 2010 @ 12:39 pm
Well, as the actress said to the bishop, that was a quick in and out. Everything sorted. Me mate’s pub is closing it’s doors for the last time today. Shame that. It’s me only real local. He’s a good Scouse lad, and I like watching the games there. There’s a load of us living down here. We started our own supporters group there, the BornReds. There was over a 100 of us and it was great fun when it was running, but it folded when we decided not to get afiliated with H&G. We sent the money to the HJC and that was that. But it’s still a decent place to watch the games if you can’t get to the match and fancy watching it with a few other reds.
Oh well, just the way things are nowadays. Pubs closing left right and center or turning into shite theme parks and eateries. I like to imagine Ireland’s dodged that bullet, but I suppose it’s happening over there too. Oh well, just the shite times we live in.
As for todays game, well, as usual there’s not much I can’t agree with in the blog. Not sure about Torres though. Shame it’s such an important game. I know they all are but the Arse at home, it doesn’t get much bigger. So, part of me agrees that we have to risk him but like you said Gerry, with so many important games being crammed into the first few weeks, Roy is going to have use the squad very wisely. So, it’s a close call that will probably be made by the medical staff even more so than the manager.
Pepe… no brainer. He’s in. I love that fella. Love everything about him. Not only is he the best in the league, he’s a great lad. I just can’t speak highly enough of him.
Back 4…
Well, if fit, I’d go – Johnson, Mad Martin, Mad Danny and Aurelio.
No disrespect to Carr or Insua. I just agree with you Gerry, if Insua is off, there’s no point in playing him. And Carra, well, it’s a hard call really. I’d be scared of his lack of pace against Arsenal, but then with Magic on the right, we might need his no nonsense defending. So, I’ll leave that to Roy.
Got to be Lucas in the holding role for me, but I can see Roy giving the new lad the nod. I’ll be straight Gerry, I’m one of the people that isn’t too happy with the signing. But then again, I agree, we could do with an old fashioned hard case at times and maybe this is exactly the type of game we need him for. But I wouldn’t bank on him getting through it. I just don’t know enough about him to not worry about him seeing red… mist and then card. So again, Roy has a tough decision to make.
The rest, well Stevie and Joe will defo get the nod, and I agree that Maxi will probably get in ahead of our Derek due to circumstance. I’d like to see Alberto get some minutes. Don’t know if it should be from the off though.
So, this just goes to prove me point really…
Except for the obvious couple of positions, Roy has inherited a highly talented squad of players. We aren’t the shambles the media and some of our support would have us believe. We shouldn’t just accept ship steadying from Roy. We should be challenging. But we should also support if we don’t. I sincercly wish Mr. Hodgson all the very best and hope he isn’t treated with the same sort of treachery by some as the last manager had to endure.
It’s just not on. We are LFC. We back our own. It’s what makes us different to the rest. It’s what we are. It’s why I’m red. I want to be proud of the support again. And I just want to start going the match again. So that’s it…
Just over 3 hours to go. I want us to fuckin batter these Cockney media darlings. But more than anything else, I just want Roy, the lads on the pitch, and the lads and lasses in the stands to do us all proud. And that’ll do for me for now.
I also had a bet on us to win the league. I do it every year. 20 nicker on at 18 to 1. That would do nice for a trip to the FA or the Europa final. So come on you mighty reds… let’s twat these gooner bastards!
Nothing like it is there. I best stop. I’m getting a bit worked up. I fuckin love this day of the year…. GerrinderyerredbastardsIfuckinloveyou!
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 #8 |
McrRed
Posted on August 15, 2010 @ 1:12 pm
I just don’t get Cecil’s haste to get rid of Insua.
Yeah, he’s not brilliant. But he is good.
And he qualifies as a young player.
And he qualifies as a homegrown player.
You know, the ones we’re short of…
Anyway, been dreading the Arse for the last three weeks but now I’m well up for it. Can’t wait for kick-off.
Come on Roy. Who dares wins…
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 #9 |
Gerry
Posted on August 15, 2010 @ 2:11 pm
Anew second verse added to the Torres song to put us in the mood.
First verse;
His armband proved he was a Red. – Torres Torres
You’ll never walk alone, it said – Torres Torres
We bought the lad from sunny Spain
He gets the ball, he scores again
Fer-nan-do Tor-res, Liverpool’s number nine!
New second verse;
Again he proved he was a Red – Torres Torres
He put the transfer talks to bed – Torres Torres
He told Roy Hodgson where he stands
He loves the club and he loves the fans
Fer-nan-do Tor-res, Liverpool’s number nine!
Class!
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 #10 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 15, 2010 @ 4:40 pm
Well that’s a league début to remember.
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 #11 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 15, 2010 @ 6:36 pm
What a bastard, eh lads. But fuck it. Not the worst reult we could have got and I got the buzz back. Brillinat.
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 #12 |
KENNY DALGLISH LFC LEGEND
Posted on August 15, 2010 @ 6:45 pm
shame for pepe, a world class save and then does a rob green. poor with 11 on the pitch, immense with 10. Ngog took his goal superbly.
What was Roy doing starting with those donkey’s Ngog and Kuyt? Has he been stealing Rafa’s notes?
Rednapp and Merson at half time. Ngog has to come off arsenal are not worried about him at all. 5 mins later the ball is in the back off arsenal’s goal courtesy of you know who. Go back to drinking and gambling Merson.
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 #13 |
timmytorres
Posted on August 15, 2010 @ 10:10 pm
Nice blog Ger,
Today was indeed the first leg of a pretty tricky start to the fixture list we have been given.On the flip side of being screwed in the usual way Gerry,at least we will have Arse at home and City and the mancs away,out of the way.If we can get through the first few fixtures without to much damage,well who knows,we might be able to build some momentum.
Looking at the game today it started out pretty much as i expected it would.Arsenal with all the ball but inevitably,playing in front of our back four and they really didn`t open us up.That said i felt we were a bit deep,maybe too deep in the first half,but when we broke i was impressed with jovanovic`s workrate and strength on the ball.
Stevie looks to be enjoying his midfield role again.He was more involved in the game.He seemed to be flying into a few tackles like the Stevie of old.
Glenda seems to be getting his form back also and made a few decent runs today.
I thoought we were in right trouble when Joe got red right on half time.Bit hard to defend it,in live action the ref probably had no other choice.When you lunge in like that your always asking for trouble in this day and age.
I won`t be too harsh on Joe,it was more out of desperation to impress in his first league game at Anfield but his willingness cost him.You could see all day he was working hard trying to track back as well as pull a couple of bits of skill for the fans.That rush of blood to the head has cost him a three match ban.
Ah well you live and learn.
Surprisingly,we played better football with ten men and had more possesion at the start of the second half.
The goal was a fantastic finish from N`gog and while the Martin Tyler and his monkey put all the blame on Almunia,i think it did a diservice to a superb finish from the young lad.If it had been torres,rooney or drogba they`d have been creaming themselves over it.Delighted for the lad,hope he`s not loaned out now,he can be a decent back up for Nando now and then.
Gerry,you said Masch shouldn`t be even in the squad and before today,i`ve had my reservations about his mindset also.To me today,he showed little sign of a player who wants away.He`s made it clear that LFC is not the problem,but his family life,so as long as he`s putting in his shift while he`s here,i`m willing to let it be.I`m sure Roy has looked at the situation closely,watched the way Masch trained and that,so if he feels he`s has the mindset to keep his eye on the job then that ill do for me.
Mash seems to have a good mentality when he on the field,i doubt he`ll be thinking of Italy or Spain.
We just couldn`t hang on at the end.I feel sorry for pepe,he was blinded by the sun and the ball came back off the post so fast,he just dropped it into the goal.When its played back in slow motion,it looks worse and worse every time but having played between the sticks a few times in me day i`m feeling for pepe tonight.
I thought Carra and Skrtel were immense today especially in the last 15 minutes when our backs were against the wall and its good to have Nando back.More minutes for you now lad.
Taking everything into consideration what happened today i suppose a point against Arsenal isn`t a bad result.
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 #14 |
ykleong
Posted on August 16, 2010 @ 1:37 am
I thought a draw was a fair result and in fact suited us better. After Ngog scored (a superbly taken one I must say though the pundits blamed it on Almunia), I actually had mixed feelings at one point of whether wanting us to win (just like the game with the Chavs last season)…In my head, headlines in the papers like “Roy reenergized Rafa’s flops”, “Different manager, different class” all sprang to mind……how much more so when we were 10 men.
Anyway, Skrtel was particularly impressive and commanding….and also wonder what happened to Agger??? (dizziness after the ball hit his head?, exhaustion?)
And Jova looks good too with his strength and also some of his passes were excellent….
Most of all, I really feel for Reina especially after 2 superb saves…overall, more positives than negatives…
Go march on you reds!
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 #15 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 16, 2010 @ 8:12 am
Joe Cole said something last week that I really liked. It was something like this….
“At Chelsea we used to look for our games against the bottom ten teams, and know we could beat them. That meant 60 points. Then we fought for the rest.”
That seems like a bloody good idea to me. I like that mentality. I hope it rubs off on the other lads.
But having said that, I have to say this…
Was Aquilani injured yesterday?
I honestly don’t know, but if he wasn’t I’m pissed off he didn’t even make the bench.
Look at that substitution by Wenger yesterday. I seen Wallcott and Rosiscky and said to me mate…
We’re in trouble here.
I think we done brilliant. Some people were screaming stop sitting back, which is right. But I don’t think we was sitting back. Arsenal pushed us back. And the lad’s defended valliantly, but we needed someone to push us on. I think Aquilani would have done that.
Okay. He’s not a tackler. But sometimes you have to give something up. And I think we should have done that, give up a little defensively to go forward… attack being the best form of defense sort of thinking.
But, I used to give Rafa the benefit of the doubt so I have to give it to Roy… I don’t know why he took the decisions he did. I’m not privvy to that sort of info.
So anyway, it’s a bit sickening to end up with 1 point after all that but I don’t think it’s something to get too upset about.
And last word…
I hope to fuck no one comes in for Mascher. I love that crazy little bastard.
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 #16 |
Arthur G. Posis
Posted on August 16, 2010 @ 8:31 am
So it’s back!
Jesus I forgot how much football can kick you in the balls! But in saying that, at halftime I’d have happily taken a point but I suppose it was just the jammy, poxy manner of their goal that got me so down in the dump at the final whistle.
We looked a bit rusty and a bit off the pace in the first half but liked NGog’s movement and Gerrard looked comfortable in that middle role alongside Masch. The sending off was very unfortunate – still think it was only a yellow.
Our 2nd half performance bodes well for the rest of the season – real heart and lots of balls. Our defence was excellent – Agger at left back gives us real options while we’re still in this transitory phase – he perhaps doesn’t get forward as well as a natural left back but we looked solid.
Up front, Ngog continues to impress for me – no more talk of loaning him out please – we need him for the season ahead. Good to see Torres back – hopefully he can push on from here
Unfortunately it seems that Lady Luck still hates our fucking guts and she took another dump on our heads at the very end of the match. But positive signs. Looking forward to Trabzonspor match on Thursday
I agree with FS on the Aquilani issue: where was he? Answers on a postcard it seems… oh and yeah Masher – immense. Truly professional yesterday and if he does leave – well at least he went out on a high note. But lets hope we can hang onto him for another season
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 #17 |
donalfromthegap
Posted on August 16, 2010 @ 8:44 am
How’ya lads
I totally agree Fatty I hope we keep him
I thought he was class yesterday though the head on him looked like he just came off a week drinking binge but he played his heart out.
I watch the matches with Korean commentators and since last year they have nicknamed him “SuperRiena” even the commentators were upset to see him make a mistake.To be honest I think even if he held it he was going into the back of the net.
N’gog played really well too. I think if Gerrard would of rolled around like a hedgehog Rosicky might have gotten a red.
Anyway I was pissed off at the time but looking back we played well and im glad those little fuckers didn’t beat us.
Anyway the big thing is to see how we do against the lesser sides like Joe Cole said.
Im glad to have him in our team.
A rough month ahead so hopefully we can get through it with minimal damage and pick up some points.
Jovanovic played well but Glenda is really earning his nickname with that new hairstyle!!
anyway thats the craic for now just like to commend Fatty and all ye all (you know who you are) for really putting up a good fight and keeping the blog informed on the real plight of the club. I did the little I could before me time out in Cambodia
Great blog Gerry as usual
Over and out
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 #18 |
donalfromthegap
Posted on August 16, 2010 @ 8:48 am
By the way with the addition of Jovanovic and with skirtle Dagger Carra Monster StevieG and Dirk we look like a right bunch of hard bastards
even Glenda and Lucas are lookin mean!!
over
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 #19 |
KENNY DALGLISH LFC LEGEND
Posted on August 16, 2010 @ 9:03 am
I think Roy will do alright with the players that we have now. The squad is excellent if a little thin as we know in some areas ie; left back and back up striker department. It’s how he will do when he has to start replacing players that has me worried. However that is a little time away and I’ll back him till I see otherwise.
I thought we did really well 2nd half and it’s a shame we couldn’t get the 2nd in that little 10 minute spell after half time.
I got suckered into a debate about football at work. I live in London and my work is full of gooners, hammers, spurs and of course chav’s. I laughed at merson’s and claptrap’s comments about Ngog and someone at work said well he was crap up till then, I said he did well he’s just a kid. guess what they said? You’ve been saying that for two years. Unbelievable!!
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 #20 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 16, 2010 @ 9:19 am
HA! Yeah. I forgot… Mascher’s hair do. fuckin brilliant. And I agree, it’s great to see some bloody steel in there and we haven’t even let the real thug out yet. That Poulsen fella’s bloody scary.
Tap Poulsen v Kaka into youtube. He’s horrible. A proper yard dog.
I just hope Roy doesn’t forget he’s got a bit of style and flair there in Aquilani. As I said earlier, I don’t think it’s really fair to question these sort of decisions if you haven’t got all the info. But I just hope Roy isn’t writing the lad off.
I think he would have came in very handy yesterday. Okay, he won’t go flying into tackles and winning the ball. But you don’t need to do that to defend. He’s the sort of player who can take the pressure off just by picking out little passes that others don’t see. And I think we needed that yesterday.
Oh well, only a wee complaint. I was quite happy overall.
And here’s a laugh for yers…
Have you heard the rumour that Maradonna is going to get the West Brom job?
It’s not a joke. There’s no punchline. I just heard that he is being considered for the job. I’d fuckin love that if he got it. Just the thought of all the little Inglunders cracking up cheered me up. Please God, let it be true and happen. I think it would be hilarious.
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 #21 |
Rafalution
Posted on August 16, 2010 @ 9:51 am
Well, I have Ngog in my Fantasy League team, as my 3rd striker. Paid all of 4mill for him – bargain! He has just earned me 25+ points or soemthing. And no, ye can’t buy him from me & I won’t loan him out. He is going to be a goldmine for my Rafalution Reds 
Great goal lad, well done. Very happy with the display all round, for this tough opening fixture.
I too, hope Monster stays.
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 #22 |
Kiwi_Mark_LFC
Posted on August 16, 2010 @ 10:06 am
A few comments….
You could argue :
Barely a yellow – never a red
Reina fouled – not a goal (especially given some of the soft fouls that are given involving keepers nowadays)
Torres fouled – continued into the box – penalty (it was certainly a foul outside the box and should have been a free kick – we didnt even get that)…
I am only saying you could argue all of that…based on what refs have done in the past…
BTW did you notice the beautiful one touch pass that set Torres through for that…and whom delivered it…
But all in all not a bad result given we only had 10 for over half the match…very unlucky to concede the goal…not really Reinas fault – not much more he could have done considering…
At least there was plenty of fight and effort…but there was also quite a bit of good play…
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 #23 |
Rafalution
Posted on August 16, 2010 @ 10:06 am
See those bastards at Sly have made their own banner, with Roy’s face superimposed on it – you know the one, that communist style banner with Shanks, Paisley, Fagan, King Kenny & Rafa. Tossers. I hope hat Roy will one day deserve his spot on the banner, but this is not on!
http://twitpic.com/2f6cuc
And sorry to harp on about how the press hate Rafa. The following exert from Henry Winter’s twitter. The twat…I’m sure it was Rafa who ‘signed’ Jova?
henrywinter Jovanovic, on left of #Liverpool 4-2-3-1, bulldozes past Sagna twice. Determination, strength, touch..looks typical good business by Hodgson
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 #24 |
timmytorres
Posted on August 16, 2010 @ 10:41 am
Rafalution,
I could file a law suit on those bastards for copyright as that is my banner.Well its not totally mine but,a few of us Irish lads on another site threw a few bob together to have that banner made.One of the lads did the drawing and we all threw a few bob towards it.
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 #25 |
sachem
Posted on August 16, 2010 @ 10:54 am
Yes, it was Rafa who signed Jovanovi?. I’m not surprised Henry Winter would write something like that. We will have to stand this nonsense for at least this whole season. Every chance they’ll get, Rafa will be put in a bad light compared to Roy, even though it’s usually not true at all. The pundits have spread their lies about Rafa for years. They won’t stop now. I’m sick of it, but the truth is, not even Paul Tomkins (who’s spent ages contradicting all these lies) can really be bothered putting the facts straight anymore. It doesn’t matter what the bunch of them bastards say though, I know for a fact Rafa was one of the finest managers Liverpool ever had. I have absolutely nothing against Roy, but the truth is he has a long, long way to go before reaching Rafa’s level.
Some of you have mentioned we seem to have a bunch of hard bastards in our team at the moment. Well, speaking of that, I surprised to read a column by Tommy Smith the other day, in which he was completely slagging off Rafa and repeating several of the media-invented myths about him. I always thought Tommy was a good man, but that column really made me wonder what the hell kind of mine he was quarried out of.
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-columnists/tommy-smith-column/2010/08/14/tommy-smith-i-m-impressed-with-new-liverpool-fc-boss-roy-hodgson-100252-27060129/
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 #26 |
burgerman
Posted on August 16, 2010 @ 11:10 am
Similar problems as last season-can’t keep a clean sheet, can’t hold a lead, unable to score a second,fall asleep during the last 5 minutes, Kuyt plays every position except striker.Can’t seee the Mancs scoring many last minute og’s, the difference between first and ?.2 points dropped V a mediocre Arse side.
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 #27 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 16, 2010 @ 11:12 am
Tommy Smith is an absolute prick mate. It’s known fact, he’s a bitter old bastard.
Timmy, get on to Sky and kick off. Fuck them, and it might be a laugh. Just email them and say that’s your banner and you want Roy taken off as he hasn’t earned his place amongst the legends yet.
And as for that Henry Winter fella, well, he was quite possibly the biggest Rafa hater of all. Prick with ears that fella.
Tell you the banner they won’t bother to mention…
that 4 horsemen of the apocalypse one, with H&G and P&B on it.
It’s got the same sort of story as the legendary manager ones. It was paid for by whip round and it was an Irish lad who got it made up and took it on to the Kop yesterday. And that got hijacked an all… the stewards made them take it down. But it got an airing and made it’s point.
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 #28 |
theredman
Posted on August 16, 2010 @ 11:17 am
I thought the lad’s did brilliantly yesterday 10 men and all that, someone said they showed more bottle in the second half than they did the whole of last season which i think is grossly unfair given the amount of injuries we had then.
i was very impressed with the boy’s seeing that they hardly played together pre-season, so it was good to see a lot of understanding on the park.
FS, sad new’s mate,the BlueBell has been knocked down and there now stands a medical centre where it was, bit ironic seeing there were quite a few character’s who drank themselve’s to obscurity.
And it look’s like the Q M is next sad times indeed.
YNWA.
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 #29 |
Rafalution
Posted on August 16, 2010 @ 11:22 am
Timmy, saw a ‘tweet’ from Rory Smith saying it was the Irish Kop who made that banner.
Mate, I would defo send them an email. Fuck ‘em.
BM, the Arse didn’t look like scoring (besides Pepe’s save from Rosicky) in the 2nd half. We had the 3 points in the bag, until that misfortune from Pepe. It was a ‘beach-ball’ incident all over again, & I don’t think it should be categorized as a ‘we let one in due to bad defending & an inability to hold on to a lead’ type goal. If you know what I mean?
It was a goal nonetheless, but not due to bad play on our part. You have to take the positives out of the game, and I for one will feel fairly confident ahead of a trip to the Eastlands, for example.
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 #30 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 16, 2010 @ 12:18 pm
I know Red mate, it’s shite isn’t it. I haven’t even got a local nowadays. I had some funny times in the QM and the Blue Bell. Great places in their day.
BM…
Pity you didn’t have Rafa to slat for that, eh.
Mind you, give you time, I’m sure you’ll find a way.
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 #31 |
guinnessdrinker
Posted on August 16, 2010 @ 12:26 pm
was gutted in the end but on reflection it was a good result to a tough opener. its hard to gauge what could happen against city they were shocking against spurs but held out for a draw so i cant see us breaking them down unless nando starts which he more then likely will wouldnt be too upset with a point.
really liked the look of jova, as was mentioned earlier we have a right motly crew of hard nuts and if we can add a bit of class to that in cole stevie nando and aqua who knows where we might end up!
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 #32 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 16, 2010 @ 12:30 pm
I thought the first half was quite scrappy and we could have played better football. Joe Cole couldn’t get into the game at all. We couldn’t get a passing pattern going. We defended well and worked hard but not enough quality in my opinion. 2nd half – forst 10 mins we looked good and got the goal which was a great strike from Ngog. Great play from Masch with the assist. From 65 mins on it was backs against the wall and like FS I was very worried when Walcott and Rosicky came on.
I couldn’t believe it when Reina messed up. I was gutted. The goal was coming though, one way or the other and I just couldn’t see us holding out. Glen Johnson really did my head in the way he kicked the ball out for a throw deep in our own half. He tried to be clever and kicked it against an Arsenal player when he should have hoofed it up the field.
Overall I am satisfied with the result. I’d have taken a 1-1 before the game and at halftime. I would like us to pass it better though. We seem a bit of a running team with Jovanovic and Kuyt on the wings, Masch and Gerrard in midfield. I’d have liked to see Aquilani behind the striker and Cole on the wing. We need a quality left back and Agger to go into the centre. Skrtel and Carra did well but they hardly ever play the ball out. Its hoof up field mostly. Carra hit one ball about 2 miles vertical into the air in the first half.
Man City next in the PL and I think that will be a draw as well.
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 #33 |
timmytorres
Posted on August 16, 2010 @ 12:36 pm
Think i`ll just do that.Fecking Sky,they make me sick.They`ve ruined our game and its only going to get worse.
While we`re on the subject.Here`s another one they`ve messed with.
http://tweetphoto.com/39242099
I`ve been on to the lad who owns it.Top banner that, i was thinking of having it tatooed!
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 #34 |
Reds in Aus
Posted on August 16, 2010 @ 12:40 pm
Great game yesterday. Definitely feel hard done by for the Cole red card, you see those tackles all the time.
I don’t really see the arse’s goal as bad luck… It could just as easily had been an inch to the right and gone straight in. Pepe could possibly have hit the ball away but it came straight at him and even if he caught it i think he would have ended up over the line anyway. Wasn’t a robert green blunder by any means. I loved Cara’s support – “Pepe is undoubtedly the best keeper in the world” Must just be a bit of doubt in spain… But to be honest I think Pepe is better than Iker as well. It was just a good cross and all the defenders, Pepe and that little rat Chamakh (whom I’m glad we didn’t end up), couldn’t see a thing due to the sun and it deflected off the rat/new lady boy.
Rosicksy is a great little player. I thought he had scored but for pep’s genius earlier save.
I also felt a slight bit of relief after the draw (although I still would have preferred a win) just for the fact that I don’t have to read the media slagging Rafa and saluting Roy as the next Danglish.
It was great to watch the Lads giving it a really good go – for me they looked more committed than I’ve seen for a long time.
Well it will be interesting to see the line up this thurs. Obviously Cole and Ngog will play… I reckon Maxi, Stevie, babel. Probably Lucas and/or Poulson.
Probably Aurelio, Cara, Skrtel, Kelly at the back. Pepe unless his shoulder is still playing up. With subs such as shelvey to come on when we have a good lead.
I really think the key as a few above have been saying this year is to go for the jugular of the lesser teams. Too often in recent seasons we have tried to tire the lesser teams out in the first half and not really attack until the last 20 minutes. I think we need to go for the killer blows early, and if the likes of west brom get lucky with an early goal we have the whole match to keep attacking. Whereas it used to frustrate the fuck out of me that we would start attacking with 20minutes to go then the sneak in a lucky counterattack goal and then we are under huge pressure with just a few minutes to go.
Enough of my rant the long and the short is I’m liking the footy again, and I loved Our big Serbian bulldog running straight over the arse!
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 #35 |
Reds in Aus
Posted on August 16, 2010 @ 12:46 pm
One other thing…. Pre match I was in agreeance with Gerry about sitting Masch, but I think in these sorts of cases we have to keep playing him otherwise it forces our hand when negotiating with Inter/Barca. At least this way we still have a leg to stand on.
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 #36 |
gazmaninaus
Posted on August 16, 2010 @ 1:32 pm
Burgs that has to be the post of the year, how long did that take you to write, 89 minutes.
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 #37 |
timmytorres
Posted on August 16, 2010 @ 1:50 pm
Gaz,I wonder why anyone even replies to him.He`s been on a wind-up for the last three years.He hardly ever replies to anyone when they pull him up on his ridiculous theories.
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 #38 |
theredman
Posted on August 16, 2010 @ 2:05 pm
BM,
do you practice being an arseole or is it a natural talent you have ?, Gaz dont be sarcastic it only took him 80mins.
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 #39 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 16, 2010 @ 3:53 pm
Apparently Aquilani had a severe case of the shites.
Not joking. It’s what I got told.
It’s really pissing me off now. If this lad gets fit and stays fit enough to put a run of games together, I’m convinced we’ve got a great player on our books.
Thinking about this and talking about hardcases got me thinking, we’ve also got a great attacking line up. Wether Roy will ever use them all in the same team remains to be seen, but imagine this line up…
Reina,
Johnson, Agger, Skrtle, Aurelio
Lucas
Maxi, Gerrard, Cole,
Aquilani,
Torres
I think that would put the shits right up most teams.
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 #40 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 16, 2010 @ 4:22 pm
Aquilani needs to get himself fit and available because its either one thing or the other with him. Shits, virus, ligament damage, muscle strains. Goodness.
I wonder if Babel will get a look in under Roy?
What I wouldn’t do for a pacy top drawer left back. I get jealous when I see the likes of Evra and Cole bombing up and down the wing.
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 #41 |
Reds in Aus
Posted on August 16, 2010 @ 4:31 pm
I agree about the LB, LB, even clichy is quick and gibbs looks quicker. Despite some of the critisism levelled at Glenda I think he is top draw RB and if we could have someone similar on the left we would be much more dangerous. Kelly was putting in a few nice balls the other day from the right, anyone notice what his left foot is like and how quick he is?
Insua is hearty and I like him but IMO he is too slow to ever be top draw and so I’m not too fussed about letting him go.
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 #42 |
sachem
Posted on August 16, 2010 @ 4:41 pm
What will become of Aquilani I wonder. The thing is, back at Roma it was exactly the same as now with Liverpool. It was constantly one ailment or another with the poor lad. Very, very rarely was he entirely fit. It’s not his own fault of course. He just happens to have been dealt a bad hand constitution-wise. He also has extraordinary talent, so it’s a damn shame. I truly hope that Brukner fella can figure out a way to make Aquilani available for longer stretches of time, because I’m convinced he has all the talent necessary to be among the top ten players in the entire Premiership.
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 #43 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 16, 2010 @ 4:50 pm
Reds in Aus, Glenda is great going forward. He is intelligent on the ball, the decision making is usually sound and he has a good shot on him with either foot. However defensively he has a mistake in him every game. I don’t know if it is concentration. I also think he is too easy to beat in an isolated one on one situation. The crème dela crème full backs like Maicon and Ashley Cole. How often do you see them beaten? Hardly ever. And they are great going forward.
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 #44 |
sachem
Posted on August 16, 2010 @ 5:13 pm
In fact LB, Maicon, regarded as the best full back in the world, was criticized when he first came to Inter Milan at the age of 25 as being too careless in his defensive duties. He has since improved this part of his game (as well as his offensive qualities, which were always amazing) thanks to hard work and an excellent training staff. I expect him to improve it even more under Rafa. The fact is, even the very best of full backs are make more defensive blunders than the very best of CB. It’s inevitable when they go forward as much as is required in the modern game. As long as Glenda keeps working hard on improving his defense, then I’m not too worried. He might never reach Maicon’s level, but just think of Dani Alves who makes quite a lot more defensive errors than Maicon, and he is still a fucking world class full back.
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 #45 |
Reds in Aus
Posted on August 16, 2010 @ 5:22 pm
completely agree Johnson does make more than his fair share of mistakes, the thing is and I’m sure we all agree, at least Glenda has a very positive side as opposed to most fullbacks. We can work on the mistakes/concentration. We can’t make Insua run faster…
I’d love it if glenda made less mistakes – of course! And I’d like it if ashley cole left chelsea.
Anyone know of any LB’s that are young, fast and raw… let Roy know if you do!
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 #46 |
Aitch
Posted on August 16, 2010 @ 5:47 pm
LB,
dispicable little bastard that he is, your point regarding Ashley Cole’s merits as a left back, would have been hard to argue…
…had you made it in May before he just spent the entire summer getting beat ugly, both in South Africa and in the Chav’s pre-season (not the least of which was at Wembley for the 2nd Scum goal!)
But I get what you meant!
Interestingly, a few weeks ago, I watched a rebroadcast of our season opener against Spurs from last year…
We started really well, had them under the cosh a bit, then…
Senior players get concussed and other senior players have to be subbed with injuries…
we lost.
Yesterday, a senior player gets red-carded, putting us down to 10 men for an entire half…
…Masch pulls up with an injury and has to be subbed…
…Agger has to play the last few minutes in a concussed stupor…
…and we have one of those classic “couldn’t duplicate it in 20-odd games, beachball moments”
…the difference… we held on for 1 point.
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 #47 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 16, 2010 @ 5:54 pm
Insua beefed up to fast. He was brilliant before that but easily knocked off the ball. He could do with shedding a bit muscle, but then he’s got the old problem back.
If you think about it, Rafa was constantly trying to find the right full backs. They are essential to his vision of the game. And it seems for all the shite his system was given, it’s now the given way for most top teams here and abroad, and even international teams.
Roy’s done nothing to change it. I’m not slatting him for that. It makes sense. I did notice one change though. The marking was still zonal but we had a man on each post for corners.
Anyway, thing is, the type of fullbacks being mentioned in here are as rare as hen’s teeth and cost a fortune nowadays. So, don’t hold your breath just yet lads.
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 #48 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 16, 2010 @ 6:44 pm
Good point about Ashley Cole Aitch. Everyone can have an off period though. I’d still rate him amongst the elite in the world.
I have a question that might seem daft. Why are we signing Brad Jones?
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 #49 |
Reds in Aus
Posted on August 16, 2010 @ 6:54 pm
LB, I believe Diego is doing a Masch and wants out of liverpool, and Brad helps with the homegrown players rule, although I dont think that will be a problem with Roy (or should I say that little turd Purslow) at the helm.
I also noted the set piece defending with men on the post (as had Arsenal unfortunately otherwise we would have been 1-0 up at half time with 11 men rather than 0-0 with 10!). Our defending scheme was still a bit zonal with a few people man marking i.e. Skrtel on rat lady boy.
The more I think about it the more we should have beaten the Arse we absolutely dominated the second half with 10 men. I think we played much better than we did against spurs last year.
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 #50 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 16, 2010 @ 8:14 pm
Man U look shite.
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 #51 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 16, 2010 @ 8:23 pm
I jinxed it.
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 #52 |
Rafalution
Posted on August 17, 2010 @ 8:28 am
Cole is a great fullback, no question. However, would you like to see him in the red of Liverpool? I for one, would find it hard to support the turd, even if he did play for my club. Right tosspot!
Come to think of it, we don’t seem to have had many tossers at Liverpool? Maybe Julian Dicks, Ruddock? Maybe I’m being one-eyed? Can you think of anyone else?
Like that lineup FS. With Pacheco, Kuyt, Jova, Kuyt, Ngog on the bench, that’s a decent matchday squad – if they all stay fit.
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 #53 |
KENNY DALGLISH LFC LEGEND
Posted on August 17, 2010 @ 9:02 am
All out attack eh Rafalution. let’s hope none of our defenders get injured or we’d be in trouble with that subs bench
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 #54 |
Rafalution
Posted on August 17, 2010 @ 9:40 am
Nah mate, just showing the options we have – that can score goals. Can’t mention Cara’s name now, can I
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 #55 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 17, 2010 @ 10:25 am
According to the Echo, Roy is linked with another Scandinavian. PSV Eindhoven striker Ola Toivonen.
Hodgson was in Stockholm last Wednesday and watched the Sweden international in his country’s 3-0 victory over Scotland.
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 #56 |
An Linn
Posted on August 17, 2010 @ 11:04 am
Well considering we played the last 10 minutes or so with 9 1/2 men i thought we were very unlucky,
Ah Pepe thats what caps are for – can’t really fault him though he made some good saves during the match
Thought Gerrard looked very up for it some good tracking back tackles and some great long balls,
What is it with refs either 1. not giving fouls on Torres and 2. no allowing play to continue – Lucas was through right at the end.
Like most of you I would have taken a draw at the start and and at half time but wasn’t happy with it at full time
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 #57 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 17, 2010 @ 12:27 pm
I have to be honest, it’s all a bit worrying to me.
Why should we be satisfied with a draw at home against anyone, especially before a ball is kicked?
Like LB, I also have worries over some of the names we are linked with.
And this Roy-fest going on in the media is sickening me.
I don’t blame him for it. I blame him for nothing. He’s done no wrong.
But this new era of media friendliness is knocking me ill.
Last night, Sky was practically wanking over how Roy had brought back the feel good factor. They haven’t stopped all night and are still at it this morning, hailing Roy for “bringing in Brad Jones to put pressure on Pepe just hours after his howler lost us two points.”
I know a lot of you lads don’t watch Sky or listen to Talk Shite but it’s absolutely shocking…
They have even changed our banners to feature Roy. That is just not on. It’s not just some innocent little jape like some are taking it as. It’s subliminal Sky Washing at it’s finest. This is a new direction… it means you can’t even ignore the drivel they spew. They are now sticking it silently on our screens and there’s no escape.
What next, Roy holding up big ears in Istanbul, anti-owner flags changed into pro-owner flags?
Orwell was right. He just got the date wrong. The ministry of truth is alive and well and serving us what they want us to believe.
Hopefully Roy will earn his place amongst the greats. He hasn’t yet. And it’s making me ill, that Sky are now patting us on the head and treating us like the gimps that fill Old Trafford. It’s like they have finally won. They’ve implemented their man and they now have a new colony of puppy dogs in Anfield. They’ll get a shock. There’s still enough of us left to bite them on the arse.
And talking of the Arse, I have to say this…
They tore us apart in the first half. They battered us for a long section of the second. I done my best to give us/Roy the benefit of the doubt. I done my best not to mention this. I don’t want to knock the new man. But the truth is…
He had no answer. He just stood there letting things develop. And it seems to me we’ve traded in a successful tactical manager for a popular one.
I hope to fuck Roy proves me wrong. I hope he earns his place on banners next to the legendary managers. But I’m really afraid he hasn’t got the wherewithall to do it.
Sorry. I just have to be honest. But I will continue to support the lad. He’s our manager and he can’t be blamed for what our owners, board, some supporters and the media have done.
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 #58 |
sachem
Posted on August 17, 2010 @ 12:56 pm
FS
I think Roy has been brought in to do what he is good at, to “steady the ship” after a season where things both on and off the pitch were in complete turmoil. My guess is that he will be with us for probably two seasons and then move on to do a similar job elsewhere. That has become is expertise and I honestly don’t believe he has the tactical ability to take us any further than back into the CL (at best).
Even if the new owners (whoever they will prove to be) will start bringing world class players to the club, I don’t think Roy has what it takes to bring us to the next level. Roy is undoubtedly a good, intelligent man and a good manager. Unlike Rafa however, Roy is not at the forefront of football management in terms of tactical proficiency. While Rafa has developed new approaches to tactics in recent years, Roy more or less relied on the same methods he and Bob Houghton made successful in Sweden 30-40 years ago.
He has of course adapted to the way football works these days or he would never have got the job he now holds, but I just can’t see him becoming a title-winning manager with a club like Liverpool in this day and age. For that to happen, we will have to bring someone else in. The ideal situation would be to bring Rafa back a year from now, causing an uproar in the media. That’s obviously not going to happen, but nevertheless I don’t expect Roy to be our manager for more than a few seasons.
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 #59 |
Lurgankop
Posted on August 17, 2010 @ 12:57 pm
Not sure what to make of this Jones signing. If it’s just a move to get another ‘home-grownn’ player into the squad then, for me, it’s a waste of money.
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 #60 |
Lurgankop
Posted on August 17, 2010 @ 1:05 pm
Sachem, this ship-steadying bollocks rolled out by the media and regurgitated by people is just that – bollocks.
We didn’t need to change the manager to steady the ship. There was fuck-all wrong with the ship, it was the men on the bridge were sailing us into a bloody tsunami and the deck hands could do nought about it.
Not having a go at you but this constant portrayl of Roy ‘ship-steadier’ Hodgson is startintg to grate.
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 #61 |
sachem
Posted on August 17, 2010 @ 1:11 pm
I know what you mean Lurgan, I would of course also have preferred keeping Rafa. But the truth is we needed some kind of change, because the ship was not steady at all last season. There were players in the squad who didn’t want Rafa to stay. This has been confirmed. My point is that we can’t expect Roy to bring success to the club as we could expect from Rafa if he were given proper financial support. Roy can be expected to get all the players moving in the same direction again and challenging for a CL spot.
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 #62 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 17, 2010 @ 2:12 pm
The change we needed and still need is new ownership. The only feel good factor is derived from the media. It creates an atmosphere that most people lap up. Not me. I like to deal with realness.
The truth is in the first half we couldn’t string 4 passes together and had 40% possession. I thought we were very ordinary. In the 2nd half we were down to 10 men so we can’t really judge. I’d say for 70 mins out of 90 we were chasing Arsenal players all over Anfield. We got a draw which was a decent result but it wasn’t fantastic.
We will know a lot more in a month because we’ll play both Manc clubs.
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 #63 |
theredman
Posted on August 17, 2010 @ 2:49 pm
Just got told by my brother-in-law that the main reason the Reds have signed Brad Jones is that Diego Cavalieri want’s out as much as Masch does,
he got told this by (old big nose)Phil Thompson in the gym he goes to, so dont know how true it is.
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 #64 |
timmytorres
Posted on August 17, 2010 @ 3:25 pm
Ol` big nose,ha like that one Red.Happy days when Ol` big nose and Ol` big Ears went to the Falcon for a pint!
Seems this Brad Jones is a good prospect.I can`t understand how some keepers come to a club knowing they`ll spend most of their time on the bench.Anyhow should(god forbid) something happen to pepe,then we will hail the signing if he can do a job for us.
I wonder will Roy start Torres on thursday?Maybe he`ll give him a half an hour then start him against city.The lad needs match fitness,no doubt about that,more minutes the better.I guess the medical staff know best how to deal with him.
Aquallini has the shits apparently so?Well there`s fuck all that Aussie doc can do with that.Plenty of lucozade sport and wash it out of the lad and get him up and running.
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 #65 |
Rafalution
Posted on August 17, 2010 @ 4:11 pm
Timmy, if Liverpool came & told me: “mate, we want to buy you, pay you 100 quid a week, but you will be full of splinters at the end of the season”, I would say “bring it on’.
As a learned fan posted on another site:
I backed Rafa, and I respected him.
I will back Roy, but he must earn my respect.
It’s a pity the media shite & some of the fans don’t realise that you can only start judging Roy after a few games, not after 1 home game, albeit against the Arse. I suppose a 1-1 with 10 men for half the game is considered ‘ship-steadying’.
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 #66 |
Reds in Aus
Posted on August 17, 2010 @ 5:58 pm
real madrid picking up ozil for 12mil is a bargain. The guy has huge potential.
I think Rafa is a legend, however I don’t think he communicated well enough with the players to help us get through a tumultuous time due to our thieving owners. I think that is the only knock I have on Rafa. He bought some flops but when you aren’t given much and you are trying to compete with huge spenders such as chelsea, man u, barca and real madrid, then you take risks which aren’t all going to come off. I think his tactical ability is up with the best in the world if not the best.
I think one of roy strong points will be his ability to relate to the players and help us get through the misery inflicted by those lying scum sucking turds (the merry fat fuckedup four). With new owners and the ability to compete on the world stage again, I don’t know whether Roy will be our man IMO although I too will give him a good chance. I just think Roy will struggle to attract the best players in the world (at the moment we are ok because we still have the players Rafa acquired).
It’ll be interesting to see what happens with Aquaman, I really hope he gets fit and gives us a lasting legacy from Rafa.
I don’t think I’d start Torres on thursday it seems the last few times he has played a night game his groin has played up so I would make sure he is 100% before starting him at night especially when eggnog is doing well at the moment.
Unfortunately I also doubt torres will start against man city as he looked far from 100% on Sunday – when he is fit there isn’t a centre back that could stay with him. He would have scored from that pearler of a thru ball from Lucas 9 times out of 10 but due to his lack of fitness/confidence to sprint, Laurent (the guy that apparently ‘broke his leg’ from the cole red card) caught up to him.
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 #67 |
Reds in Aus
Posted on August 17, 2010 @ 6:49 pm
Also in regard to Diego and Brad Jones, you can imagine that any professional athlete with any sort of ambition can only sit on the bench for a certain amount of time before they will be desperate to start. Diego has done that for over two years and due to Pepe’s fitness and ability is unlikely to get a game in the foreseeable future. So anyhow I’m sure he is keen to move somewhere he will start or at least have a chance to start.
Brad Jones however has been starting for a while and probably wouldn’t mind sitting behind Pepe – learning from ‘the best keeper in the world’ and improving with a view to starting for a good club in the years to come (hopefully not for liverpool as I hope Pepe is here for life).
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 #68 |
McrRed
Posted on August 17, 2010 @ 7:06 pm
Here’s my take on the game:
First half, I was bricking it.
I remember thinking I hope Roy’s got something for ‘em at half-time because this is going to be depressing.
Out we come with ten men and up we go with Ngog.
We also had the better of good chances throughout the rest of the half, even though we had nine/ten men.
I was happy with the way we played and content with the substitutions. The only fly in the ointment was Agger’s concussion which gave the Arse an advantage and in my eyes gave them the game.
I was proud of the boys and don’t blame Pepe’s peaked cap in the slightest (yeah, I wish the ball would’ve gone the other side of the post, but hey…)
I only hope we don’t get one of those “Oh no! Beachball!” things going on in our heads…
Opta says Arsenal have always won when playing against 10 men. Today they could only get a draw. That’s a positive.
So. So far, Roy’s done well and I look forward to seeing how we do against City.
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 #69 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 17, 2010 @ 7:25 pm
Brad Jones is 28. He’s not going to improve much. I was talking to an Aussie lad today. He’s from Perth, same as Jones. He said Jones’ lad has cancer and he wants to sit back from football for awhile so will be more than content to sit on our bench. Normally that would be enough for me to say fuck him off. But it’s understandble if the lad’s kid has got cancer. At 28, his son must only be a very young lad. So, I give him the benefit of the doubt. It must be heartbreaking and if the club is happy enough with the arrangement, well, so should we be.
It’s also being done to free up another home grown space and I’m sure another of Rafa’s donkeys, Cavalieri, will make the club a profit. Will Roy see it?
Well apparently if he does, he won’t waste it like Rafa. The latest disgusting instalment…
Sly Sports have wheeled out Antony Le Talec to tell us all how Rafa wrecked and wasted his career.
You couldn’t make it up. In fact, they must have a little back office reserved to sit and come up with this stuff.
It really is disgusting and says much much more about the media in this country than it does about any manager. Mancini will get it soon. Once Cappello is done for.
My mate made me laugh today, they were going on and on about Cappello being unable to communicate with the players. (Where’ve we heard that one before Aus mate?) The man can speak about 5 languages and makes more sense in any of them than the likes of Merson the expert does in English on Sly. Then they said, “England needs a man with success at international level.”
Me mate reckoned they’d better dig Alf Ramsey up as he’s the only one who ever has.
And sorry, but it needs to be said…
Arsenal tonked us for the first half. We had about 10 minutes of the second. Roy didn’t have a clue as far as I was concerened. The forced/like for like substitutions changed nothing and we ended up fighting a frantic backs to the wall rear guard action.
I tried to cover it up by saying it was Arsenal. I don’t want to slat anyone, but the fact is, it was far from the best Arsenal. Arshavin stunk and they had no Fabregas. He was replaced by a kid in midfield in Wilshire, who Gerrard couldn’t get near all day.
I hate to say it and I hope to fuck I’m wrong, but if that has set the tone for the season, we could be in trouble.
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 #70 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 17, 2010 @ 7:33 pm
PS: I forgot me main point yet again…
I agree it’s far too early to judge Roy. Let’s hope he grows into the job and does us and himself proud.
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 #71 |
Reds in Aus
Posted on August 17, 2010 @ 8:15 pm
I’d heard from friends that some of the players (carra/stevie) didn’t know what rafa was talking about some of the time – that is not to say they didn’t respect him immensely, just that he would call things from the sidelines and make his gestures that no-one knew what he was going on about. And you need the team leaders to be on the same page as the coach when things are getting tough.
I think of Rafas habits as idiosyncracies of a genius.
p.s. although I’m Reds in Aus – I live in Aigburth.
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 #72 |
Dizzy
Posted on August 17, 2010 @ 8:19 pm
Young Boys giving Spurs a spanking they will remember for a long time …
3-1 to Young Boys in first half …
Just thought of this month’s Sky Mag that had Harry Redknapp on front cover, on gold throne, “How Harry Joined The Big Time” ….
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 #73 |
Reds in Aus
Posted on August 17, 2010 @ 8:20 pm
also I doubt we get more than we paid back for diego (2.5mil I think)
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 #74 |
Lurgankop
Posted on August 17, 2010 @ 8:40 pm
Young Boys giving Spurs a spanking…
Funny and true
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 #75 |
theredman
Posted on August 17, 2010 @ 9:56 pm
Whose their manager, Julian Clarey.
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 #76 |
rome77
Posted on August 18, 2010 @ 12:27 am
So the season as started and the omens are not good Ref f*cked us,lady luck kicked us in the balls and Aggers concussion reminded me of Skyrtle and Carra last season and we all know how that snowballed into the rest of the season..
One thing i noticed was MOM Masch ( who i would always play regardless of circumstances ) looking over to Roy for instruction during some of the stoppages.
And been met with blank stares and silence. Another bad omen ?
Reds in (Aigburth) Aus
Gerrard & Carra didnt always understand Rafa but Masch did. besides most of the team dont understand what Carra’s screaming at them either.
Which is probably a good thing.
I think it took Arbeloa up to his last game for us,before he understood what Carra was shouting ¦ )
YNWA
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 #77 |
rome77
Posted on August 18, 2010 @ 12:34 am
PS Lurgankop probably a silly question but do you come from Lurgan ?
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 #78 |
rome77
Posted on August 18, 2010 @ 12:48 am
PPS
These banners having Roys face superimposed onto them is a disgraceful case of media manipulation and somewhat embarrassing for Roy himself.
Whats next are they going to start playing a audio tape of the crowds roaring Roys name ? a bit like when Germany scored in Escape To Victory ¦ (
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 #79 |
Rafalution
Posted on August 18, 2010 @ 8:13 am
Rome, it’ll probably come to that – an audio tape of the Kop singing Roy’s name? Oh dear. And yes, bloody despicable what Sly did with the banner. Timmy & the Irish lads should really follow up on that…send a letter to the press, emails whatever.
I would love it if the Kop did sing Roy’s name in time – it would mean that he is doing a good job.
And I loved the Young Boys game last night. Welcome to CL football, Sir Arry Brownenvelope! Wonder what the pundits, media etc will make of his tactics this time. Maybe blame the ‘unfamiliarly quick’ pitch?
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 #80 |
Rafalution
Posted on August 18, 2010 @ 8:34 am
Oh, forgot to add…
Ozil to Real M for 12 mill, and Milner to Shiteh for 25? Ludicrous springs to mind. You can see the British press warming up. They have a new target in sight, besides Capello.
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 #81 |
guinnessdrinker
Posted on August 18, 2010 @ 10:27 am
rome ” looking over to Roy for instruction during some of the stoppages”
not sure a professional footballer and captain of one of the international giants of the game should need to be told what to do during a match!! man up make the decisions yourself its what you do for a living.
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 #82 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 18, 2010 @ 12:56 pm
You want a manager they all understand, you better get this fella in…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4GXAmB1w6o
More bollacks to sling at Rafa. It’s as easy as this lads…
The media in this country has plunged to the depths. Football punditry and commentary has never been so bad…
Jamie Claptrapp on Liverpool playing at Old Trafford last season…
“Yes. They battered them last season, but they had Xabi Alonso pulling the strings in midfield.”
True enough, we battered them. But funny thing was… Alonso didn’t even play in that game.
So there you go, that’s about the depth of their knowledge. But it’s getting more sinister than that….
There’s a thing on Sly, Soccer AM, it’s essentially a kids program. It was full of “jokes” about paedophiles last week. What a jolly jape that was.
I’m no Mary Whitehouse, but this is getting completely out of hand. It’s a bloody disgrace and why these educated people who run these things want to dumb it down to the level of Paul Merson and the likes, just goes to show what they think of us, the footballing public.
In the 70′s and 80′s we were treated like cattle. It took Hillsborough and Bradford for things to improve. Now we are being treated as complete cretins and I know where it’s leading. It’s not by mistake. I’ll post about it when I have more time. But it’s the likes of Murdoch who are tryine to push through the European Super Leagues one and two.
The media want to take over the game completely and turn it into a global entertainment industry ran by the selected few companies like Sky. It’s on the cards. We’ll be left with fuck all that made us fans in the first place, just a sanitized dumbed down load of bollacks beamed live in to sitting rooms the world over.
Had to laugh at this this morning though…
Talk Shite and Sly have both been at it since last night, blaming Our Appy Arry’s 442, for leaving Spuds exposed and how he should have played with one up front and two holding players in the middle like the best teams at the World Cup.
You couldn’t make it up.
Fuck them. Just try and enjoy what’s left while we’ve got it.
Oh and on the banners…
Sly have been forced into making an explanation why they super imposed Roy’s head on the flags. Of course, it was only done to highlight LFC’s glorious past and in praise of Liverpool’s legendary managers.
Pricks. But that’s that, nothing else can be done.
Wonder how they’ll explain the audio track they laid over last season’s home games at Highbury. Yep. Through the discussions about the banner, it came out that they’d put phoney crowd chants over a few Arsenal games last season.
Oh well, welcome to The Big Brother, 1984, whacky world of Sky’s global entertainment football. It’s a gas.
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 #84 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 18, 2010 @ 2:12 pm
Sam, that was making interesting reading until I read, how Managing Director Christian Purslow has brought in money and is increasing our finances.
I had to stop there. I can’t be bothered with that right now. I will read it later, but putting espn “have found out” and Purslow together in the same paragraph leads me to one conclusion….
He’s at it again, leaking things to friends in the media.
Dead funny how he’s turned on his friends H&G in the last few weeks. What a horrible little bastard he truly is.
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 #85 |
sachem
Posted on August 18, 2010 @ 2:44 pm
FS
Christian Purslow is the head of a team of people who managed to bring about the Standard Chartered sponsorship deal, which does in fact bring in a lot more money than the Carlsberg sponsorship did. That can’t be argued with as far as I know. What can be argued with is the claim that Purslow is the one who should take the most credit for that deal. I don’t know enough about what’s going on within the club to say who’s doing what. Considering what’s been reported about Purslow one does have reason to be sceptical with these things however.
“Expectations of a quick takeover have fallen by the wayside. Once again it is becoming a drawn-out and painfully slow process without any sign, as yet, of a resolution.”
From the article linked by Sam82, those two sentences struck me as important ones as they seem to confirm my fears. It’s hard to predict what’s going to happen with the takeover and when it’s going to happen. The main thing is to get rid of the debt of course and if that will be the outcome of this drawn-out process, then it would be worth the wait. If it all will result in administration, then I don’t know.
One thing is for sure though: when the current transfer window closes, so does the opportunity to spend a lot of money the way Man City have done up until now. There will be a last opportunity in January, but it’s usually a lot harder to sign the best players during that time. This might actually be a good thing for us since I doubt any club will afford to bid £50m or more for players like Torres and then pass the new restrictions set up by the UEFA. It does on the other hand leave us in the same situation, which might be both good and bad depending how you look at it.
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 #86 |
rome77
Posted on August 18, 2010 @ 2:49 pm
Guinessdrinker
Are you serious ? What do you think a managers role is,sit and do nothing when the team is under pressure.
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 #87 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 18, 2010 @ 2:50 pm
Ian Ayre is commercial director. Its him that has been getting these deals in place and began doing so when Rick Parry was still with us. He has done a good job. Purslow however is Managing Director and his number 1 objective was to find investment. He failed.
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 #88 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 18, 2010 @ 2:56 pm
Born in Liverpool, Ayre was a reds fan from a young age. He began following Liverpool as a nine year old and when he was appointed Commercial director in July 2007, he talked of his love for the club and that he had already realised one of his lifelong goals of scoring at Anfield when he scored in a half-time penalty shoot out during Chris Lawler’s testimonial in the mid seventies.
“I entered a competition run by Radio City to take a penalty against the Everton keeper George Wood. I won it and got to take a spot-kick in front of the Kop. Fortunately I scored it too! I’ve been to most of the big finals and was there in Athens in May for the European Cup final.”
Ayre left Litherland High School at 16 to join the Navy but he left the armed forces to have a shot in the world of business. He became incredibly successful in Asia where he ran a company called PACE, becoming a leading maker of digital set top boxes for Sky and other suppliers. His experience of working in football has not been confined to Liverpool though as he left PACE to become Chairman and CEO of Huddersfield Town. After a three year stint at the club, he returned to business as the managing director of Virgin/NTL subsidiary Premium TV before returning back to the Far East to run Total Sports Asia, a company which advised international companies on their strategies and how to market themselves in Asian sports campaigns.
Such experience in Asia was ideal for Liverpool when they were looking for a Commercial Director in 2007. They were looking to increase sponsorship and merchandising revenues as well as the LFC brand in international markets, especially in Asia, and Ayre looked like the ideal candidate. Speaking on his appointment, he talked about the Reds potential in overseas markets:
“There’s no doubt that after all the success of the seventies and eighties, Liverpool was easily the biggest footballing brand in the world. Manchester United may have made progress in that area but it is clear to me having travelled all around the world and spent so many years in Asia that people remember that time. Liverpool were undoubtedly the biggest name and attraction in football and I don’t see any reason why that can’t be got back. . . I watched every single Liverpool game live out here last season.The football is on everywhere in Asia – people gather to watch it at night in bars, restaurants and other places everywhere. That speaks volumes for the size of the appetite and we have got a system, a process and a partnership in place to serve that.”
It was a system that helped to get Standard Chartered Bank on board as the shirt sponsor on a £20m a year deal. The bank are predominantly based in Asia and it took a lot of negotiations to get the deal. Standard Chartered were looking to invest in football but they were speaking to a number of clubs. What may have swayed it is the sheer volume of supporters in Asia as according to one estimate, the Reds have over 130 million fans across 16 major markets – including China (58m), India (6m), Thailand (5m), Malaysia (2m), Japan (2m) and South Africa (6m), all of which were markets Standard Chartered were interested in. Ayre believes though that to get to these fans the club must utilise sponsors as well as the sponsors getting the most out of the club:
“For our summer tour in Asia – a big market for some of our partners – we spent a lot of time planning and discussing what our partners wanted to achieve on top of branding and media exposure. In Singapore and Thailand, we sold 150,000 tickets and every ticket was bought in a store owned by [Liverpool's kit maker] Adidas or a bar where Carlsberg was represented. It achieved real footfall for our partners.”
Such promise of mutual benefits helped the record sponsorship deal to be agreed and this will have to continue in future seasons for Liverpool to maximise the profit they can make. Ayre as a Liverpool fan and Asian business expert certainly has made an impact at Liverpool.
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 #89 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 18, 2010 @ 3:16 pm
Christian Purslow was appointed in June 2009. The Standard Chartered deal was signed and sealed in September 2009. I think it is pretty safe to say this deal was negotiated a long time before Purslow showed up at the club.
Conclusion: Cecil cannot claim credit for the money the club is generating.
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 #90 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 18, 2010 @ 3:45 pm
Me grankids are here. I’m getting driven nuts, but I done a wee bit of investigating to see if the author of that piece had any links to Purslow. I was told this…
He’s just a nonce, always trying to make a name for himself. Probability is, he pulled it out his arse.
But don’t for one second trust Purslow.
LB is right. He’s failed miserably at what he was brought here for. But not only that he’s a snake in the grass, trying to consilidate a bit of power for himself inside LFC.
I can’t list the treachery he’s pulled to do this, the kids are kicking off, but just think back to his role in Rafa’s sacking and how he stabbed H&G in the back in the meeting with SOS.
Snake – easy as that really.
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 #91 |
JackHill
Posted on August 18, 2010 @ 3:47 pm
Maybe I’ve missed something but can someone tell me why Aquilani seems to have disappeared.
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 #92 |
sachem
Posted on August 18, 2010 @ 3:49 pm
You’re right LB, my mistake. It all makes you wonder whether Purslow has been of many more use to the club than his predecessor. That is something the new owners will have to decide when the time comes.
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 #93 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 18, 2010 @ 4:24 pm
Sachem, since Rick Parry moved on it has been Ian Ayre (Commercial Director) and Philip Nash (Financial Director) running the club. Christian Purslow is the face. The Managing Director brought in by H&G to help the club find investment. Remember at the time of his appointment H&G were desperate and touring the globe whoring out the club on every continent trying get some party daft enough to do business with them. That is why they hired Purslow. To get investment. The banks wanted monies in April. None materialised. Purslow failed. The banks could have called in the loans then and there and if H&G were unable to pay we’d have been put into administration. This represents failure on Purslow’s part. However the banks brought in Broughton and BarCap and according to reports extended the loan until 6th October, placing stiff penalties if by then they were still unable to pay back monies owed.
Rafa seemed to be the only one calling out Purslow’s failure by making noises to the effect that with no investment we are screwed because we need 5 new signings to compete.
Purslow – having failed miserably at his job then has the nerve to undermine Rafa by leaking information to the newspapers. Further creating the atmosphere that made it easier for him and Broughton to sack Rafa.
After Rafa’s sacking all attention shifts towards his tenure. Was he a success or not? Very few wanted to know about finance or debt. It was zonal marking, holding midfield players, dodgy subs, poor buys, ‘Rafa lost the dressing room’.
Then the club recruited England’s most popular manager in the eye’s of the media followed by signing the most popular player in the eye’s of the media. You then have this artificial feel good factor and ‘steadying of the ship’.
Well I don’t know how we can feel good about a steady ship when we are less than 2 months away from possible administration. Bu there you go.
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 #94 |
guinnessdrinker
Posted on August 18, 2010 @ 4:44 pm
well rome from what i can gather the managers role is to prepare the team week in week out so that after a while they can function as a collective unit to out-think,out-battle,outrun,outsmart and hopefully outscore the opposition if you can achieve that then you wont need players constantly being barked at and told what to do why?
because they have been coached well enough during the week to be able to deal with whatever the game throws at them and they are capable of making the right decisions at the right moments otherwise you believe your players are idiots who haven’t been coached well. (great for team spirit that)
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 #95 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 18, 2010 @ 5:09 pm
Guiness it was the first time masch played under Hodgson. As we were down to 10 men and just made a sub I do not consider it out of the ordinary for a player to look to the bench for instructions.
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 #96 |
sachem
Posted on August 18, 2010 @ 5:22 pm
LB
Sure, there has been a lot of political machinations going on. Exactly who and what has been causing it I don’t know, because there’s also a lot of rumours and speculation knocking about, but it’s fair to say most of it seem to be pointing in Purslow’s direction.
Now I remain convinced something had to change after the poor results and performances last season. Nothing will convince me sacking Rafa (or forcing him out) was the right thing to do. We can of course only speculate as to what would happened had he stayed, but the amount of sulking by Steven Gerrard last season truly worried me and I’m not sure Rafa could have carried on into this season without something else breaking. Looking back, I get the feeling there was just too much pressure to keep everything the way they were.
But of course I don’t accept the official media story that Roy was brought in to deal with Rafa’s failings or any of that nonsense floating about. I don’t think Roy’s popularity in the media is the only reason he was brought in either, though I admit it’s easy to see it that way.
guinnessdrinker
Look at the top managers around Europe during games and count how many of those are not shouting instructions to their players. I have no idea what Mascherano needed instructions for, but presumably it was only because of some misunderstanding he didn’t get them.
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 #97 |
guinnessdrinker
Posted on August 18, 2010 @ 6:04 pm
i see managers watching the play i dont see them constantly telling players what to do on the ball or where to run. sure players need to be told to mark up or take it easy if they are getting out of control but i think you’ll find most top managers let the players play. didnt see del bosque constantly shouting at his players dont see pep guardiola constantly shouting at his.
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 #98 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 18, 2010 @ 6:41 pm
GD… You do see managers instructing players to change things when the team is getting battered.
You do see managers making changes by their substitutions.
You see managers changing things when their team loses a man.
We seen none of the above from Roy.
We seen a home team down to ten men, getting 10 minutes after the half time break. That’s to be expected.
When we made substitutions, they were like for like or forced and changed nothing.
We fought a hard rear guard action and very nearly pulled it off against an Arsenal team that weren’t at full strength with some of their players not playing particularly well.
Our central midfield, well Gerrard, just couldn’t get to grips with theirs, well, Wilshire.
But hey, Steven got to play in the position he prefers, despite all fact and stats proving his best seasons have been on the right and behind the striker.
I had to laugh at Roy talking about Agger’s concusion affected us. Of course he’s right it did. But I wish I could find the link, he called Agger our most natural left back…
Maybe someone should remind him, he resigned Aurelio and Insua hasn’t left yet.
These are the sort of things that are worrying me. I honestly don’t want to slat Roy. I want him to succeed. I really do. And there’s no way I’ll bash him when he doesn’t deserve it. And, like I’ve said before, it’s far too early to judge. But lie for him… nah. Can’t do that unless I’m talking to the enemy.
As for the Purslow business, well it’s nutshelled in LB’s last post. The man’s a failure and a snake. His expertise lays in leveraged hostile take overs of companies that are struggling.
I’ve been doing a bit of investigating today when I could. It’s clam up time. There’s not a word being leaked from the banks. I know that for fact. So, any stories will be either entirely made up or leaked from the owners or board members. I think it will be easy to judge which depending on the story. What I don’t think is, they will come from Ayers or Broughton.
Mr Hill Sir…
Aquilani had a stomach upset on Sunday. Apparently he suffers from it quite a bit. I hope it’s nothing serious and the new medical staff can get to grips with it.
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 #99 |
Aitch
Posted on August 18, 2010 @ 7:27 pm
Hmmm….
A few weeks ago, Steven Gerrard stated in an article that Purslow had kept in touch with him and Carra since the end of the season. He’d called them and texted them in SA.
SG thanked him for it. He thanked him for following through on signing quality players (this was after the Shelvey/Jova/Cole transfers.)
It sounded to me at the time as though this was part of a long-standing relationship SG had with Purslow… but I left it there.
Now I know there are people who want to make it all nice and simple and say that rafa lost the dressing room coz he was stubborn and cold and tactically stifling.
But given what we know about Purslow’s actions towards Rafa (and what we know can surely only be the tip of an iceberg? Since it usually takes a Biography 10 years after the fact to get all the details of these things…) I wonder if Purslow was deliberately whispering in players’ ears and turning things sour.
I’ve had bad spells with teams before… and it is hard to really put your finger on what and where things went wrong… and when it becomes a season long thing, as opposed to a blip… it gets even harder to really put your finger on what and where things went wrong.
I cannot get my head around why players like SG particularly, and even Carra to some degree, were so poor last season… but if someone high up in the club was constantly at them blaming Rafa for everything… that could go some way to explaining a division in the squad and subsequent can’t be arsed performances…
… bit conspiracy, but after all, it worked with many fans!
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 #100 |
Rafalution
Posted on August 18, 2010 @ 7:32 pm
The thing is, when Purslow was appointed, Rafa said he got on fine with him, and that they communicated in Spanish as Purslow was fluent in the language. Purslow in turn said he & Rafa got on well, and had faith in the manager.
I started getting concerned when SoS published their minutes of the meeting with him, and then he releases a different set to the media. Who do you trust? Well, why would SoS lie? The bloke definetly has an agenda – be it power or finacially driven – and he even has the audacity to sell himself as a Liverpool supporter (before he became MD of the club).
The old adage ‘where there is smoke, there is fire’ springs to mind. Snake is also an apt description. I just wish we were privy to some of his ‘discussions’ with Rafa & also with the tumours.
I would say I can’t wait to read Rafa’s autobiography or memoirs one day, but Senor Benitez is too classy to reveal his thoughts & secrets in the form of a book. Maybe the only way to find out what really happened (when he got the sack) is to get Montse pissed, and hope she leaks a few secrets?
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 #101 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 18, 2010 @ 8:17 pm
Well, here’s what I know, which amounts to nothing really, but anyway…
Think back to last week. There was a few what they call In The Knows, keeping people updated. What they said all turned out to be pretty correct, especially the fella known as Bamba. More on that in moment.
Then me RBS fella got in touch with me at 2am in the morning and told me, there’d been a secret meeting between the top honchos at BarCap and RBS, and his own source had said to him, and I qoute…
“Your owners are getting shafted in the morning.”
The next morning there was the meeting between the board and the banks in London.
My fella at RBS then said, expect complete silence now and maybe, just maybe, an announcement of some sort towards the end of the week.
Well, that’s what we got and it’s stayed silent ever since. But we did get the announcment. It seemed a bit of an anti-climax because we’d all built our hopes up. But it wasn’t really….
“The Liverpool FC Board has reviewed a number of proposed bids for the club at a meeting held today.
The Board will continue to act in the best interests of Liverpool Football Club and its supporters, doing all that it can to ensure that the Club is ultimately sold to a buyer who has the resources and real commitment to give it a long-term, stable and secure funding position for its plans.
The sale process is continuing. However, its timing and outcome remain uncertain. In the meantime, we will not comment on rumour and speculation.”
Reading between the lines, and from everything we’ve been told…
There’s bids on the table. The board will review them all in depth. The banks and Broughton will make the decision. The board will vote on them if needs be.
Well, the fella called Bamba had said all this beforehand and then said he would have to remain silent and wouldn’t comment until he could with something concrete.
I’ve been told who Bamba is suspected to be. I can’t repeat it, but I can say I trust the lad who told me his identity. But don’t ask for it, as it’s been told to me in confidence and it could always turn out to be wrong. But I can say this… it’s not a board member.
So, all I can say is, the info we have been given up to now seems to have been correct so far. And I reckon that’s where we are now…
The board is still reviewing all the bids and when they sorted the wheat from the chaffe, the remaining prospective buyer’s bids will be handed to the bank for them to do their own due dilegence.
That is okay with me…
Remember it was the rush to hand over the club for what turned out to be pie in the sky, is what got us into all this trouble in the first place.
So, I would much prefer this limbo to any rushed decision. And think about it…
Khirdi, the pizza and off license owner, Purslow’s MidOceanPartners, there’s bound to be a lot of shit to work through and rather than end up is shady hands again, I’d actually prefer administration by the banks so long as the eventual outcome is the best we can get.
And as far as I’m informed, the owners are still up shit creek. The club could eventually go for comparitive buttons and them greedy bastards could still walk away with fuck all.
So, in a nutshell, it’s basically down to this now…
Is there a proper fit owner, with sufficient funds, amongst the bidders?
And on that, your guess is as good as mine.
|
 #102 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 18, 2010 @ 8:22 pm
Oh and I forgot to say…
It looks beyond a doubt that Khirdi is in bed with Gillette. And Purslow’s MidOcean leveraged buy out company is in bed with Hicks. But they are no longer believed to be in the running or in the background.
But you can imagine the backstabbing and deceit that’s going on behind closed doors. So, it could well be administration come October. Because from everything I’ve been told, there’s no chance whatsoever of H&G meeting all the penalty clauses that have been adding up week by week….
Randolph and Mortimer… I sure fuckin hope so.
|
 #103 |
Lurgankop
Posted on August 18, 2010 @ 11:08 pm
As many of you have alluded to, all you have to do is look to the past to see what was said by these shysters and then look at the reality down the line.
Anything that comes out of the press/board should at least checked against previous comments before being commented on.
Fair fucks to LB for doing a bit of R&D before commenting on how Purselow had single-handledy, from reading what Sam82′s article implied, increased LFC’s turnover and got Standard Chartered on-board and gave birth to Freddie Mercury’s love child. Which one did I make up?
To be honest this whole football shenanigans is not how I used to remember/enjoy it. The grumpy fucker that I am.
In my day Rome, I was indeed from Lurgan. Born and bred there. Like all places it has it pluses and minuses. I live in France now with my family and it’s knocking on 20 odd years since I’ve been back there for any amount of time.
Nothing much there for me to be honest and I feel more of an affinity with Liverpool if I was to be honest. However, that’s now being fucked over in the last few years and all. I thinking about moving to the North Pole to be honest!
If I do, I will change my name to NorthPoleKop. Maybe I will meet KeithSA there. Who knows?
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 #104 |
pshenava
Posted on August 19, 2010 @ 12:00 am
I must ask one thing about the game other day. When Agger suffered a concussion and as quoted by Roy that we struggled a little bit due to his absence of the field for receiving treatment, then it seems it was Roy who put him back and risking him being hit again and threatening his career. Is this the manager I want? No but who am I. No matter if we had no subs and play with 9 men. Lot is at stake at all times but he has got to think a big picture. If I say that Rafa wouldnt have done that then there will be some folks who will jump on me and ask “How do I know that for sure”? And we will go into back and forth comments to prove each other right and wrong. Hence I wouldnt say something which I cannot prove but in my heart I know what we lost with Rafa : A man with the highest integrity, technical nous and long term vision. Im so sad to be supporting liverpool with all this shit. I fully believe Aitch that sg and jc had sided with snake as we all experience this kind of politicking in the corporate world and its so sad that Rafa is made to look as the one who was doing this. I want to ask folks what would he gain now dont tell me few million, money is not everything for many of us still. He could walk into any job in this world. Blaming him for politicking is the worst thing when it was he who came out losers and the guys who stabbed him in the back are still there and he truly loved liverpool. I miss him so much. Sorry for starting of with something and ending with an ode to Rafa. I truly believed he loved liverpool, its fans and its players. I am not saying he was a saint no one is all of us are human but his achievements and values were exemplary. Wish Roy can emulate atleast some of it but as FS said we will give him time to prove but at the moment after the first game with Arsenal I think he failed on both counts. No matter what the media guys spin I knew what we could achieve from that game. Arsenal were there for the taking without cesc, van persie and couple others and the Agger incident has left a bitter taste in my mouth about his concern for his player. I hope to understand more on Roy once the season wears but he hasnt earned my respect yet as stated by rome77, lurgankop, fs and few others.
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 #105 |
Aitch
Posted on August 19, 2010 @ 1:05 am
pshenava, there is no doubting that Rafa truly loved LFC.
Anyone who states otherwise simply ignored everything about the way the man did business.
However, I think you’ll find that Rafa did indeed throw players back into the fray who were injured.
He persisted with Skrtel and Carra when they near knocked each other for 6 against Spurs in last season’s opener.
Both played subsequent games with concussions and a broken jaw.
And there were plenty of games last season where SG and Torres took to the field of play when they shouldn’t have really been anywhere near it.
I think criticism of Roy is a bit premature.
Let’s give him a month or two for fucks sake.
I admit, I don’t like to see managers just sitting there… (was there anyone looked more fuckin gormless than Ged in his latter days?)
…in fact I’ve never played for a manager (and that would be a high double digit number) who wasn’t hoarse after every match…
… but I also don’t think Roy is in a position to be riding roughshod over the majority of these players.
As a general rukle though, the only time managers/coaches shut up, is when you are comfortably in the lead…
…and even then some of them can’t keep from telling you what to do…
… so I don’t know who you played for guinness lad, but it sounds like a mighty peaceful league!
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 #106 |
rome77
Posted on August 19, 2010 @ 2:00 am
Guinessdrinker for me the manager should manage and stoppages are the ideal time for those game changing instructions. One of the things Houlier ended up doing was sitting back and letting the players do there own thing. Mainly because (if rumours are to be believed) SG,JC, DM & MO basically had a revolt and took over similar to what happened with Scolari at Chavski so all in all its not a good thing to see.
Now with all that in mind remember Murphy & Owen trying to engineer moves back last summer but Rafa wouldn’t / couldn’t bring them back.
Murphy then slagged Rafa in the press ( NOTW ) and Owen did the unthinkable .
So what was Gerrards response ??
Now IF Gerrard did sulk his way through last season maybe its because he wanted control over transfers.
Or maybe it was his injuries and a loss of faith after those early losses which depressed him and led to his bottom lip tripping him up.
I suppose we’ll never know because a autobiography is usually one sided.
YNWA
|
 #107 |
rome77
Posted on August 19, 2010 @ 2:15 am
PS Lurgan i have a Aunt who lives near there, she say it can get a bit rough.
She’s a bit of a rebel she only went and married a protestant and was told by everyone it wont last.
50 years later she’s still married to him ¦ )
|
 #109 |
knight
Posted on August 19, 2010 @ 8:24 am
Pshenava, I love Rafa. But let’s not relate to him and compare him with Roy. Roy sent back Agger despite his injury beacuse he had already used up all the three subs ( Aurelio, Torres, Rodrigues). If Agger were to stay away, it would have meant playing with 9 players against 11. And notice too that this was done with two new and wily subs Walcott and Rosicky coming on just before Agger’s injury. They would likely be attacking us fiercely-which they did. One other point: up till that stage we were still 1-0 up. It was Roy’s first competitive match in the Prem, against a key opponent for what could possibly to be counted later for the Champion’s League spot. In that circumstance, armchair manager though I am, I too would have asked, cajoled and pleaded with Agger to stay on. Rafa would have done the same.
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 #110 |
knight
Posted on August 19, 2010 @ 8:26 am
Ya, Agreed! Do hang in there Kenny Huang! We are with you…
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 #111 |
Arthur G. Posis
Posted on August 19, 2010 @ 8:50 am
Pshevana: Are you smoking crack?? After one game, Roy has “failed you”???
any manager worth his salt would have kept Agger on – that’s football.
Quit lamenting Rafa and move on – he’s gone.
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 #112 |
Rafalution
Posted on August 19, 2010 @ 9:44 am
Ha ha, I just knew Arfur would come in after Pshervana’s post!
But as much as I love Rafa – and Psherv, I too am still sore about him leaving – I reckon Dagger had to stay on & Roy wasn’t at fault there. You’d probably find Dagger said “fook that, I can’t see the ball, I don’t know who’s on my side or not, but I’m staying on da paddock”.
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 #113 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 19, 2010 @ 10:14 am
Morning chaps…
Had the wee lad over last night. I forgot what that was like. I loved it, but I don’t envy all our new dad’s in here going through that every night. It’s nice being auld cuddly wuddly Granda getting up twice in the night to feed Pirahana boy. I really enjoyed it, but then I don’t do it twice a night, every night and then have to go to work. No sympathy for yers though. I had to do my stint, so suffer.
As for Rory Smith and Huang, it’s the same with all the red journos. They are all pushing this. I’ve been told he’s the only real game in town by others to. But in all truth, I’m in no rush. I just want it done right. Act in hast repent at leisure, seems about right here. Remember it was the rush to hand us over for pie in the sky promises that led to this mess that we are in.
So, I hope Broughton and the banks take all the time they need.
Okay. We might have to miss the transfer window. So what?
Most teams/managers would die to get hold of a squad like ours. There’s no reason why we shouldn’t finish in at least a Europa place. We should see good runs in the cup too. And, I’ve got to be honest, Roy is a stop-gap manager. He probably won’t be here once we have new owners. So, what’s the point in giving him mega millions even if we had them?
I don’t really fancy watching half of Scandanavia and The failed Golden Generation anyway.
Okay, bit harsh that. But really, what would be the point.
Let Roy just do what he was brought here to do… keep the ship steady, in this turbulant transitional time. Wish him all the best. Expect him to challenge. Hold him to the same high standards as Rafa was. Even give him a walk over and expect nothing. But don’t kid yourself… he’s not here for the long term. So, even if Huang or Sheik Mc did come in with mega billions, don’t give him the money to build our next squad.
Arthur’s right… Rafa has gone. We have to accept that. That doesn’t mean we just forget him or what he done for us. But, speaking for meself, I’ll do me best to back Roy while he’s here and try to wait patiently for a new era.
Hopefully, it won’t be another fuck up like this one. And that’s why I don’t mind waiting and hoping Broughton and the banks get it right.
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 #114 |
knight
Posted on August 19, 2010 @ 10:18 am
FS, I hope your friends from RBS and wherever are both saying th Chinese still have a chance.
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 #115 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 19, 2010 @ 11:09 am
Hiya Knight. Far as I know mate, The Chinese bid is the only real one on the table. I don’t know if someone has come in quietly before the deadline last Friday. There’s nothing but silence at the moment and anything you see in the papers is being made up.
I suppose there’s a chance of someone trying to gain something by leaking “News” to the press, but that would only be Purslow and I’m only saying that because of his track record for doing that.
The last time I spoke to our RBS friend, he said exactly the same thing as he told me last week…
It’s all being done in top secrecy, nothing will come out until there’s a proper announcement to be made.
So, that’s why I say, I don’t mind this silence. Because to the best of my knowledge, Broughton and the banks are doing the job correctly.
But soon as I hear anything, I’ll let you lads know.
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 #116 |
van-leffo
Posted on August 19, 2010 @ 11:30 am
According to an article by tony evans in the times this morning Huang has lost patience with the delaying tactics by broughton, Liverpool have claimed there are other offers on the table and that Huang has not yet offered proof of funds, the times reckons though that all the necessary documentation has been provided. Huang has issued a take it leave it message to Liverpool as he has realised its all smoke and mirrors and deliberate delays from broughton (probably on the orders of g&h) in an attempt to push up the price. To his credit Huang asserts that he is keen to complete the deal before the transfer window closes as he wants to provide Roy Hodgeson with funds to strengthen the squad. What I like most about Huang is that he really doesn’t want h&g to make any money from the deal – class!
I think RBS have realised what g&h are about and that the club have a chairman and chief executive who are not fulfilling their roles. The times article continues:
RBS can, if necessary, seize control of Liverpool without putting the club into administration. Also ‘the bank have been charging hicks and gillett £2.5 million a week in penalty fees and could threaten to pursue the Americans for the money if they fail to hand over the keys to Liverpool as part of a debt-for equity swap. Other options would include removing hicks and gillett from the clubs board.’
It looks like RBS are so sick of the situation they are prepared to take the decision out of the boards hands and do the right thing for the club. Here’s hoping…
Ps I cant believe Roy’s getting a hard time after just 1 league game, give him a chance, he’s been in management for over 30 years and has had a fair bit of success in his time. No one likes the fact that Rafa was treated so badly by the board/press/so called fans and then sacked, but lets give Roy some time. Who cares if Mascherano was looking over at the bench without response. Maybe he was looking for a razor-scruffy get.
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 #117 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 19, 2010 @ 12:25 pm
These latest stories in the press about the takeover are being made up in my opinion. The times have motive as they released the exclusive in the first place. Now things have gone quiet they come out with these articles to make themselves look more credible. That’s how I feel about it. Until an announcement has been made I am treating all articles with contempt.
Now, what side do you think Roy will pick tonight?
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 #118 |
Rafalution
Posted on August 19, 2010 @ 12:35 pm
Jones
Kelly Carra Wilson Fabulous
Kuyt JonJo Poulsen Aqua Babel
Ngog
Bench: Stevie, Scary, Pacheco, Nando, Jova (& others)
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 #119 |
Reds in Aus
Posted on August 19, 2010 @ 12:43 pm
Even if Kenny’s PR team did leak that Kenny was getting impatient is probably just to try to push things along by putting media/public pressure on the board.
It all needs to be taken with a pinch of salt as we are all fairly well in the dark.
Tonight I think Roy will play
Reina
Johnson skrtel carra aurelio
poulson/lucas
babel gerrard Jova
cole ngog
with aquaman coming on for stevie for the last half hour if we are winning, and torress probably witting in comfy uggboots on the bench all night.
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 #120 |
artful_dodger74
Posted on August 19, 2010 @ 12:57 pm
Been reading most of the posts but haven’t posted in a while because me missus had the our first sprog 3 weeks ago. Up to me tits in nappies and feeds the last while. Tough going – but worth every minute of it. Congrats to the other guys who just had sprogs as well. Cant wait to get our little Liam out onto the football pitch!
Tony Evans of the times is supposed to be doing a webchat at 1pm on the takeover. According to Bamba (the man in the know) the two tonys over at the times know as much as him; re: inside knowledge. Apparently they have the same source leaking information. Bamba’s words not mine. Maybe evans might enlighten us a little more as to what is going on.
As far as Roy is concerned i think we should give the guy a break. Scrutinizing his every move on the bench is a bit much. I dont think for the life of me that a man with 30 years football experience doesnt know what to do when one of his teams go down to 10 men. By what i’ve read here most of the lads seem to have watched the game on the box. So there is no way of telling what/where/when Roy was up out of his dugout. Unless someone here was at the game & can confirm that they watched Roy in the dugout for the 90 mins and he never once barked any orders. I think were doing the guy a bit of a dis-service and there might be a bit of lack of respect going on. Its his first home game in the league. Let things settle down first. Give him 10 games and then start making some judgments.
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 #121 |
Rafalution
Posted on August 19, 2010 @ 1:14 pm
Sorry Aus: of course, Cole & Lucas will start – also up to my tits in nappies, also had a sprog 3 weeks ago, also have one called Liam…trying to follow LFC & post comments whilst at work.
But thinking about it, there is quite a choice for Roy. We keep on bemoaning the fact that our squad is week, but it is not – especially if I have trouble trying to decide who to pick. The only areas we lack decent backup is striker (everyone seems to have 4 or 5 on their books), LB and a wide man or 2?
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 #122 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 19, 2010 @ 1:46 pm
I would like to see a left back play for us for the first time this season. So Fabio or Insua should play.
Also hope to see Aquilani tonight and maybe a start for Torres. He needs games.
Would like to see the team play some good football tonight.
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 #123 |
Rafalution
Posted on August 19, 2010 @ 2:27 pm
Favour to ask. They are not showing the game over here, not on radio either. If anyone listening/watching tonite feels like posting ‘live commentary’ (like Aitch used to, I think?), then feel free to keep your fellow fans informed.
Cheers!
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 #124 |
artful_dodger74
Posted on August 19, 2010 @ 2:34 pm
Full cut and paste from the Tony Evan live webchat on the times. Depressing reading some of it. Looks like the cancers are digging their heels in till the bitter end. Sorry for hogging the blog Gerry.
Tony Evans:
Alright everyone. Hope you’re all good today. I’ll get stuck in then.
Mike, good to hear from you. It’s a criticism that’s been levelled at me all summer. And it’s wrong. What I said, was that if the current ownership situation remained, then Torres and Gerrard would consider their future. I also said moves were afoot to ‘extricate them with dignity’. Which they were.
I believe the captain mulled over Real – which would have meant him -putting in a transfer request and I don’t think he’d do that – and Torres has been persuaded to give it more time. He doesn’t want to leave but knows the ownership situation is untenable.
If Martin Broughton does not find a buyer by January, then Torres will leave the club.
Doom and gloom? One way of looking at it. A better way would be a wake-up call.
And you don’t trust me. I’m sorry. Then just for you: wow! I love Anfield! Everything’s great! Hey, we’re gonna win the treble. Love and peace everywhere. Especially to the American owners and their flunkies.
Thursday August 19, 2010 13:06 Tony Evans
13:06
[Comment From DaveDave: ]
Hi Tony there has been so much claim and counter claim regarding the Huany bid. Is he really backed by the chinese sovereign wealth fund? Is he a credible business man? Or is he just using the Times as his PR machine?
Thursday August 19, 2010 13:06 Dave
13:09
Tony Evans:
Dave, CIC are certainly behind Huang. They have not denied it (they are very quick with official denials). The confusion started when the Financial Times quoted an unnamed source at CIC as knocking it down.
As for being used, our contacts are from a variety of sources. You never rely on just one. Anyway, if I thought they were trying to use me I wouldn’t write it.
When you write something in The Times of London, you’d better be right. Writs will fly, P45s delivered.
Plus, they people who talk to me know I’d hunt them down and kill them
Thursday August 19, 2010 13:09 Tony Evans
13:10
[Comment From TineTine: ]
Hi Tony, can you shed some light on the situation regarding the new stadium? Are the plans at a stand still/on hold/dead? When would you realistically expect Liverpool to move to a new ground, if ever? Thanks.
Thursday August 19, 2010 13:10 Tine
13:12
Tony Evans:
Only if there are new owners, Tine. The council are growing tired of H&G’s antics and will close the whole thing down as early as next year. The owners’ budget just about stretches to a Subbuteo stadium
Thursday August 19, 2010 13:12 Tony Evans
13:12
[Comment From AKMAKM: ]
How long till Torres is off? How many years before Liverpool is a threat again? Is money the only way to the top in the Prem these days?
Thursday August 19, 2010 13:12 AKM
13:16
Tony Evans:
If investment arrives, Torres won’t leave in the forseeable future. If it doesn’t, January.
I don’t think it’s all about money in the Prem. I think that’s a myth that grew in the late 1990s. A good manager with good scouts can win with a reasonable budget.
However, when money is being leeched out of a club left right and centre, it can kill any chance of success. That’s what’s happening at Liverpool.
Money will not buy the title for City, just like it didn’t buy the European Cup for Chelsea. But when the lack of cash threatens stability, a club’s in trouble
Thursday August 19, 2010 13:16 Tony Evans
13:16
[Comment From PedPed: ]
Give it to us straight, Tony. What’s the latest? Is this thing going to happen or not and if it it doesn’t who will be to blame? Broughton? China? Hicks & Gillett?
Thursday August 19, 2010 13:16 Ped
13:22
Tony Evans:
Ped, the thing is so convoluted, I’ve forgotten what straight is. The Chinese have their budget. All in, they will spend about £800m on the club in the short term – price, players, stadium.
That’s their budget. They don’t want to go over it. They’re not buying for emotion, they’re buying for profit.
H&G want more. They don’t really want to sell.
So it comes to Broughton.
Now he comes to the table with a big reputation but was recruited by Hicks’s mate Michael Klein (after me, “ah, the Wall Street rainmaker “).
Broughton was charged with selling the club in April. He hasn’t. You get to the point where you stop believing in people.
Thursday August 19, 2010 13:22 Tony Evans
13:22
[Comment From Bob Bob: ]
Beyond Kenny Huang are there any other viable bidders?
Thursday August 19, 2010 13:22 Bob
13:25
Tony Evans:
Bob, as detailed by our back page today, RBS were saying that Kirdi’s backers could be real but have shown no money (you’d never think bankers would take such a McCawberish outlook, would you? No wonder capitalism nearly slid down the pan two years ago).
They also said Rhone are still talking but don’t have the money.
A simpler answer would have been ‘No’
Thursday August 19, 2010 13:25 Tony Evans
13:25
[Comment From Danny Danny: ]
Was Yaya Khirdi just a big time-waster? And were/are Hicks and Gillett using to derail the genuine bids for the club?
Thursday August 19, 2010 13:25 Danny
13:28
Tony Evans:
Well I think so, Danny. On both counts.
Now here’s the thing: I don’t think football clubs are just any other business. I think they have cultural and communial significance.
So what I say to Broughton is tell us who the bidders are. What have they to offer? Let us look at them and see that they aren’t just carpetbaggers. If they have the best interests of the club at heart, they shouldn’t be scared of scrutiny.
Get out from behind closed doors. And that’s what this paper has been trying to do. Get the information out there
Thursday August 19, 2010 13:28 Tony Evans
13:28
[Comment From Patrick Patrick: ]
Do you really see this mess being tied up before the end of the transfer window Tony? As I see it, this is seemingly unlikely and could lead to a real delay in a takeover as many bidders, Huang included, will be reluctant to purchase after the closure of the transfer window. This could lea to an RBS takeover in October and the inevitable 9 point deduction… Cue a mass exodus of our players…
Thursday August 19, 2010 13:28 Patrick
13:29
Tony Evans:
No Patrick, not a chance. I think the Chinese misjudged that one. Ah, there’s always January
Thursday August 19, 2010 13:29 Tony Evans
13:29
[Comment From Jason Jackson Jason Jackson: ]
Hi Tony,
Thursday August 19, 2010 13:29 Jason Jackson
13:29
Tony Evans:
Alright Jason. Keeping well?
Thursday August 19, 2010 13:29 Tony Evans
13:29
[Comment From Faith Fulcher Faith Fulcher: ]
Hi Tony
Thursday August 19, 2010 13:29 Faith Fulcher
13:30
Tony Evans:
Hi Faith. Friendly place this
Thursday August 19, 2010 13:30 Tony Evans
13:30
[Comment From Pete Pete: ]
Hi Tony, do we know what happened with the 10 day deadline that K.Huang imposed on his bid at the beginning of August to enable him to offer the manager funds to buy players. Cheers
Thursday August 19, 2010 13:30 Pete
13:33
Tony Evans:
Pete, as far as I know there was never a 10-day deadline from the Chinese. The deadlines were Broughton’s – last Wednesday for proof of funds, Friday for the deal to be done.
Huang wanted to get in quick to spend but the first time they actually issued what I’d loosely call an untimatum was last night
Thursday August 19, 2010 13:33 Tony Evans
13:33
[Comment From Jason Jackson Jason Jackson: ]
Hi Tony, reading the article today and Rory Smith’s piece as well it seems like there maybe a technicality in terms of whether Huangs has or hasn’t proven his financial position to the board. Could something this simple drive him away from the negotiating table or is the board stalling for larger offers?
Thursday August 19, 2010 13:33 Jason Jackson
13:35
Tony Evans:
The key phrase is the Chinese have “supplied the necessarry documentation required by the memorandum of sale”. That’s proof of funds. RBS said they were “there or thereabouts”. Which is bankerspeak for “you’ve got it bang to rights, Guv,” which is corblimey speak for… you get the point
Thursday August 19, 2010 13:35 Tony Evans
13:35
[Comment From Faith Fulcher Faith Fulcher: ]
Good afternoon Tony, can you please tell me why Kenneth Huang appears to be in such a panic to get the sale done and dusted. Surely as a businessman he must realise that these things take time if they are to be done properly. Faith
Thursday August 19, 2010 13:35 Faith Fulcher
13:38
Tony Evans:
Because, Faith, they are nervous the team won’t make the top four next year. Uefa’s new financial regulations mean that the majority of the big spending needs to be done, in theory, by 2012 (they big clubs will drive a truck through the rule but that’s for another day).
If, by January, Liverpool are off the pace, players will leave, no one will want to come. No top four means no big names next summer.
They were desperate to use the window of opportunity. It’s as simple as that.
Memo to Kenny: earlier start next time
Thursday August 19, 2010 13:38 Tony Evans
13:39
[Comment From Dave O Dave O: ]
Hi Tony, If you could travel to the future, two weeks from now to be precise, would the Huang deal still be on the table?
Thursday August 19, 2010 13:39 Dave O
13:40
Tony Evans:
I fear not. But I would back every winner on the horses for 14 days and I would by the club. I’d make myself No7 and manager.
Seriously, I think H&G will move heaven and earth to keep the Chinese out
Thursday August 19, 2010 13:40 Tony Evans
13:40
[Comment From Jason Jackson Jason Jackson: ]
Transfers: Who are the current targets if no one is sold? Is Figueroa still considered for the LB slot or is Konchesky a shoe in assuming Insua is sold?
Thursday August 19, 2010 13:40 Jason Jackson
13:42
Tony Evans:
Sorry Dave O, I forgot to address you personally. I’ll make up for it by namechecking Jason twice.
Konchesky as about our market these days. I’ve always liked him when I’ve seen him. But I wouldn’t hope for two-drawer quality
Thursday August 19, 2010 13:42 Tony Evans
13:42
[Comment From Pete Pete: ]
Hi Tony, you have likely seen the Liverpool FC forums with certain posters ‘ITK’ who appear to have substance behind their claims especially a poster on RAWK. Do you think that they are being fed the same information as yourselves at the Times or from other sources. Thank you.
Thursday August 19, 2010 13:42 Pete
13:45
Tony Evans:
There are loads of people who get snippets of information, Pete. Some of it has been close to what I’ve heard. Liverpool is the biggest village on the planet. Everyone’s heard a whisper. Usually from the Evertonian taxi driver.
However, it’s one thing putting it on a forum and another putting it in a newspaper. But year, there are people on the forums who’s knowledge I respect. Thommo’s Perm on the Rattle, for instance
Thursday August 19, 2010 13:45 Tony Evans
13:45
Tony Evans:
Sound! The fire alarm has just gone off. But as you lot know, I’m fireproof. I’ll be like the captain of the Titanic and I’ll go down with the ship. Things I do for you lot, ingrates
Thursday August 19, 2010 13:45 Tony Evans
13:46
[Comment From James W James W: ]
Hi Tony, can you see Chelsea making a renewed bid for Torres, was there any other strong interest in him apart chelsea who made a concrete bid?
Thursday August 19, 2010 13:46 James W
13:49
Tony Evans:
Oh they’re keeping an eye on things, James, but it will be Janauary now. His options are fairly limited. Real are off limits, Barca not really a factor, he’ll be kicked all over Italy and United haven’t got the money and he wouldn’t go there.
Chelsea are a good option. However, if City are top of the league and cruising, then they’ll be in a position to make a bid.
Did I just write that? Hahahahha. City. Top of the table. Sorry, smell of smoke made me dizzy
Thursday August 19, 2010 13:49 Tony Evans
13:49
[Comment From Charlie Charlie: ]
Do you know if there is any truth in the claims that Huang was set to be announced as preferred bidder on Friday? Cheers.
Thursday August 19, 2010 13:49 Charlie
13:51
Tony Evans:
I’d love to know what went on on Friday, Charlie. We were told an announcement was expected within and hour and four hours later we got the blandest of statements.
I wish I knew. But I suspect there was one hell of a row, for whatever reason
Thursday August 19, 2010 13:51 Tony Evans
13:51
[Comment From Pete Pete: ]
Hi Tony, in your own honest opinion, do you think Huang is taking us for a PR ride? Or do you feel there is an honest intention to be owners of Liverpool FC.?
Thursday August 19, 2010 13:51 Pete
13:52
Tony Evans:
No, I think he’s for real, Pete. They want Liverpool. It’s a goldmine with a little investment. It’s the same reason why H&G want to keep it
Thursday August 19, 2010 13:52 Tony Evans
13:52
[Comment From Will Will: ]
Hi Tony – as a reds fan I would be delighted in H&G made no money from any deal that may be struck. But back in the real world don’t you think that, for all the harm they have brought onto the Club, that Huang should pay them off. If they make £25m each forthe deal then it is a price worth paying. The alternative for Huang is to stick to his guns and not get the club.
Thursday August 19, 2010 13:52 Will
13:54
Tony Evans:
The thing is Will, the Chinese are businessmen. They’ve decided what the club us worth and how much money they will invest. H&G’s windfall would come out of the player investment pot. They’d rather spend on players and wages.
Thursday August 19, 2010 13:54 Tony Evans
13:54
[Comment From Peter Peter: ]
Hi Tony, How close do you think LFC are from allowing Mr huang to walk away as the echo seems to suggest that the board are denying knowledge of the urgency and do you think we fall into the trap like in 2007 when Sheik Mo walked and we G & H
Thursday August 19, 2010 13:54 Peter
13:56
Tony Evans:
The board might deny, Peter, but Broughton’s been told.
The comparison with DIC is interesting. DIC were made preferred bidder, which means all they had to do was keep their promises and the deal would have gone through. They didn’t so it all fell apart (the Moores letter explains this).
Yeah, the Chinese may well walk. Who’s next up? I can’t see anyone
Thursday August 19, 2010 13:56 Tony Evans
13:56
[Comment From Robert Robert: ]
Can H&G bolck the sale, by court action or any other means?
Thursday August 19, 2010 13:56 Robert
13:57
Tony Evans:
They’ll try Robert. It depends how well RBS have them locked up. This could rumble on. That’s the biggest fear.
Thursday August 19, 2010 13:57 Tony Evans
13:57
[Comment From gugadan gugadan: ]
Tony, are Broughton and the rest of the (Liverpool, not USA) board not just acting in the best interest of the club? We messed up big time when we sold to H & G so why not be 100% this time? or, do you really think they are just delaying everything to up the price?
Thursday August 19, 2010 13:57 gugadan
14:02
Tony Evans:
Answer this question, Gugadan: is there anyone on the board you’d trust to act in the best interet of Liverpool Football Club? Hicks, Gillett, Broughton, Purslow, Ayre?
Just a question.
And another. Is it in the best interests of LFC to be paying £2.5m per week to RBS?
OK, I’ll answer both. I don’t trust Hicks and Gillett. Broughton has an impeccible reputation. He needs to live up to it. Purslow and Ayre, I think will do the right thing, more or less
Thursday August 19, 2010 14:02 Tony Evans
14:02
[Comment From Pete Pete: ]
Hi Tony, obviously you have to have some degree of belief in the stories you send to print, how much of the China to buy Liverpool report did you believe or still believe for that matter?
Thursday August 19, 2010 14:02 Pete
14:03
Tony Evans:
CIC will have a large proportion of Liverpool if the Huang takeover goes ahead, Pete. That means the Chinese Government. I would not write something I didn’t believe. Quickest way to be back at the Leece Street job centre
Thursday August 19, 2010 14:03 Tony Evans
14:03
[Comment From Guest Guest: ]
Hi Tony,
Thursday August 19, 2010 14:03 Guest
14:03
Tony Evans:
Guest, you da man!
Thursday August 19, 2010 14:03 Tony Evans
14:03
[Comment From Pete Pete: ]
Hi Tony, do you admit a little that the Times was wrong with the Huang bid, there are too many holes in his bid to be considered the messiah.
Thursday August 19, 2010 14:03 Pete
14:08
Tony Evans:
What was wrong Pete?
Kenny Huang wanted to buy Liverpool? He’s backed by the Chinese Government in the form of CIC?
As for Messiah, for God’s sake. You think I want the Chinese owning the club and talking of cold-eyed profit. You think I want a Sheihk?
There are no Messiahs, not even at Eastland, just a game that’s drifting away from us by the day.
We have not been wrong in this. It may not happen but we’ve never said it will. Just that they are trying to buy the club
Thursday August 19, 2010 14:08 Tony Evans
14:08
[Comment From Mark Mark: ]
Do we know who the board are favouring to takeover? Is there a split and what likelihood is there of a legal challenge by the owners?
Thursday August 19, 2010 14:08 Mark
14:08
Tony Evans:
I sort of answered this one a couple of questions ago, Mark. And the owners will do anything to hold on
Thursday August 19, 2010 14:08 Tony Evans
14:08
[Comment From gugadan gugadan: ]
Also, do you have any specifics included in the ‘take-it or leave-it ‘offer?
Thursday August 19, 2010 14:08 gugadan
14:10
Tony Evans:
Gugadan, only in the sense they will not be jerked around. If I was them, I’d let the match pass tonight, talk to Broughton tomorrow and depart the scene Friday at 5 if not satisfied.
Then I’d go the pub and start the weekend. Maybe some dancing, maybe a curry.
Thursday August 19, 2010 14:10 Tony Evans
14:10
[Comment From Phil Phil: ]
Hi Tony, the Liverpool Echo are reporting that insiders have denied that Huang has issued an ultimatum. What’s your view on this. Thanks.
Thursday August 19, 2010 14:10 Phil
14:12
Tony Evans:
Phil, the worst thing about football is everybody tells half-truths or downright lies. I’ll let you decide my view on this.
Thursday August 19, 2010 14:12 Tony Evans
14:12
[Comment From tony tony: ]
Does your gut say a takeover will happen soon(before Oct) or will G and H ger re-financing deal and this matter gets dragged out???
Thursday August 19, 2010 14:12 tony
14:12
Tony Evans:
My gut, Tony, and what a gut, says this nightmare will linger and linger
Thursday August 19, 2010 14:12 Tony Evans
14:12
[Comment From Jonny Jonny: ]
How much if the Chinese get it do you think will be available for Transfers?..Will we be more financially powerful than Man City???
Thursday August 19, 2010 14:12 Jonny
14:13
Tony Evans:
It’ll be different, Jonny. They will compete and will be able to, if necessary, outmuscle City. Got to get into the place first, though
Thursday August 19, 2010 14:13 Tony Evans
14:13
[Comment From David ODowd David ODowd: ]
Can RBS force sale? If Kenny Huang is the only ‘serious’ bidder and has given all required back up to the bid and he has threatened to pull out, can RBS make the decision for the club? If the answer is yes, will it be legally challenged?
Thursday August 19, 2010 14:13 David ODowd
14:14
Tony Evans:
In theory, David. But if they do, the writs will fly. It’s a political hot potato for RBS
Thursday August 19, 2010 14:14 Tony Evans
14:15
[Comment From James W James W: ]
dont listen to the unintelligent people on here who dont trust you cuz you are a good journalist
Thursday August 19, 2010 14:15 James W
14:15
Tony Evans:
Thanks James. I try.
Thursday August 19, 2010 14:15 Tony Evans
14:15
[Comment From Jag Jag: ]
Do you think takeover will happen by the end of the window and when do you think LFC will announce a preferred bidder??
Thursday August 19, 2010 14:15 Jag
14:16
Tony Evans:
Think I’ve done most of this Jag. No to the first and I reckon there’s a long way to go
Thursday August 19, 2010 14:16 Tony Evans
14:16
[Comment From Dve Dve: ]
So Tony, how confident are you that Liverpool will be sold to Hung or any other bidder?
Thursday August 19, 2010 14:16 Dve
14:17
Tony Evans:
I’m not Dve, at least in the short term.
Thursday August 19, 2010 14:17 Tony Evans
14:17
[Comment From Pete Pete: ]
Hi Tony,
Thursday August 19, 2010 14:17 Pete
14:17
Tony Evans:
Alright Pete
Thursday August 19, 2010 14:17 Tony Evans
14:17
[Comment From gugadan gugadan: ]
Tony, your response to Mike is a tad harsh – I heard you myself when you we’re on talksport when you first broke the Huang story (I think you we’re on holiday so the Sangria may have been talking) and you definitely said that if the ownership situation didn’t get sorted the Torres would DEFINITELY leave! You also said that the Huang bid was the only bid on the table – so who’s telling the truth? The usually superb Times or Broughton?
Thursday August 19, 2010 14:17 gugadan
14:20
Tony Evans:
I’ll say it again, Gugadan: if the ownership situation is not sorted, Torres will leave. He’ll just leave in January because he has been persuaded that there might be movement.
We’re telling the truth. Read the story again and you’ll see that RBS explain the situation with the other so-called bids.
Thursday August 19, 2010 14:20 Tony Evans
14:20
[Comment From Faith Fulcher Faith Fulcher: ]
Hi Tony are there actuall
Thursday August 19, 2010 14:20 Faith Fulcher
14:20
Tony Evans:
There are Faith. That I believe
Thursday August 19, 2010 14:20 Tony Evans
14:20
[Comment From Faith Fulcher Faith Fulcher: ]
Hi Tony, Are there any other bids on the table other Mr Huangs, or is this something that is being put about to keep the supporters happy.
Thursday August 19, 2010 14:20 Faith Fulcher
14:21
Tony Evans:
That’s better Faith. No bids. And it’s not about supporters, it’s about driving up price
Thursday August 19, 2010 14:21 Tony Evans
14:21
[Comment From Dave Dave: ]
Hi Tony, what do you know and reckon to G&H try to refinance the loan as recently as June. Surely this is a sign that they dont want to sell and this could end up court, also who would lend them the money.
Thursday August 19, 2010 14:21 Dave
14:23
Tony Evans:
Yes Dave. They have been trying to refinance all the time. If they can make RBS go away, they’ve got another year. And the next TV deal is ever nearer. Suddenly they’ll be rich again
Thursday August 19, 2010 14:23 Tony Evans
14:23
[Comment From Peter Peter: ]
Hi Tony, how close are we to losing Huang and ending up like in 2007 when we lost sheik mo and ended up with the parasites. Do youthin the board will react to this ultimatum as the echo quotes sources who say the club no nothing of the urgency required
Thursday August 19, 2010 14:23 Peter
14:25
Tony Evans:
Peter, last week I thought it was the end game. Now I’m not so sure. The board want to do this behind closed doors. No one in football should let them.
Thursday August 19, 2010 14:25 Tony Evans
14:25
[Comment From Tommy Tommy: ]
Will LFC sign anymore players in window..heard rumours about Crouch..Is insua leaving?..Is poulsen replacement for Maschareno or will Roy sign another midfielder (Defour) if Masch leaves???
Thursday August 19, 2010 14:25 Tommy
14:26
Tony Evans:
I’d be surprised to see Crouch back. Mascherano will leave. Can’t see many other arrivals
Thursday August 19, 2010 14:26 Tony Evans
14:26
[Comment From Nick Nick: ]
Tony, it seems to me that an empty vessel makes the most noise, so do you have any information about bids from either the Al-Kharafi family or one from the Kraft family?
Thursday August 19, 2010 14:26 Nick
14:26
Tony Evans:
Krafts can’t afford it, Nick and the Al-Kharafi’s are out.
Thursday August 19, 2010 14:26 Tony Evans
14:26
[Comment From Shameer Shameer: ]
If the takeover is not concluded before the end of the transfer window will Huang walk away from the deal or is this a move to hurry up the process?
Thursday August 19, 2010 14:26 Shameer
14:28
Tony Evans:
It might be ploy Shameer, you can never be 100% sure. However, the people I’ve talked to are deadly serious. In their situation, I’d walk, but I’m a right drama queen
Thursday August 19, 2010 14:28 Tony Evans
14:29
Tony Evans:
Loads more but I’ve got to move on to other things, sadly. Just do a couple more
Thursday August 19, 2010 14:29 Tony Evans
14:29
[Comment From Kamal Kamal: ]
All these foreign owners that have come into the premiership and makes me wonder that at some point they’ll want a return on their investment. There was an interesting article by Matt Scott in the Guardian regarding Arsenal broadband and that clubs will provide football coverage through their own media companies. Bascially, if owners hold out their is a big pot of money waiting for them when the collective agreement regarding the EPL rights is broken. Not sure what your thoughts on this are?
Thursday August 19, 2010 14:29 Kamal
14:30
Tony Evans:
I think that’s on the nail Kamal. That’s why G&H will wriggle so much
Thursday August 19, 2010 14:30 Tony Evans
14:31
[Comment From Oliver Oliver: ]
What evidence to do you have the Huang has the money – apart from being told/assured/”if we give you the inside line please write” this Tony? Serious business men with serious money who were serious about buying the club would have done it by now without all the fanfare.
Thursday August 19, 2010 14:31 Oliver
14:33
Tony Evans:
RBS told us, Oliver. I don’t just believe one side.
And the ‘serious men’ stuff is off beam. They are not buying for emotion. They are buying at what they think it is worth. They believe they have been obstructed and don’t think this should be allowed to happen behind closed door.
Thursday August 19, 2010 14:33 Tony Evans
14:33
[Comment From Vj khan Vj khan: ]
Hi Tony. I remember a few weeks ago u nobely admitted that u(the press) should have vetted hicks/gillet better rather then hailing them as saviours. What do u make of haung and his bid? Do u think they’ll be right for Liverpool and if so why?
Thursday August 19, 2010 14:33 Vj khan
14:34
Tony Evans:
Too true, Vj. That’s why the process should be in the open, so we can have maximum scrutiny.
Thursday August 19, 2010 14:34 Tony Evans
14:34
[Comment From Neel Neel: ]
Thank you Charlie
Thursday August 19, 2010 14:34 Neel
14:35
Tony Evans:
My favourite today. Thanks Neel.
With that, I’ll say goodbye. Hope you got something out of this.
One day we’ll talk about the football again. I hope I live that long
Thursday August 19, 2010 14:35
|
 #125 |
Arthur G. Posis
Posted on August 19, 2010 @ 4:19 pm
Nice work there Artful
fuck it all looks a bit ropey doesn’t it lads? This Huang deal appears to be the only legit offer – why is Broughton fuckin about????? I thought he is this esteemed business man who wouldn’t dare tarnish his reputation by pissing all over LFC????
a potential 9 point deduction in October would be disastrous – we’d be essentially looking at a quasi relagation battle….fuckin hell
|
 #126 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 19, 2010 @ 4:20 pm
FS, can we have a new campaign targeting RBS please? We need to make sure they do not lose their bottle and do indeed call in the bloody loan in October if there is no takeover by then.
I have a horrible feeling H&G will threaten RBS with court action and then RBS grant yet another extension that takes us to the next TV/Broadcasting deal.
|
 #127 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 19, 2010 @ 4:23 pm
Arthur I’d take administration right now. When was the last time we finished within 9 points of the bottom 3? The deduction would not relegate us. What it would do though is seize the club from H&G allowing Kenny Huang or another buyer to buy the club with no obstruction.
|
 #128 |
artful_dodger74
Posted on August 19, 2010 @ 4:33 pm
No worries arthur. Just copied and pasted from another forum!
I think the tumours and Huang are playing out some sore of high stakes poker game here. There seems to be a lot of posturing going on. As Bamba said previously its who is going to blink first.
Looks like something happened at that infamous board meeting last friday that threw a spanner in the works. Someone on the board, other than the cancers, may have opposed the announcement of Huang as the preferred bidder. (if that what was meant to be announced instead of this “holding” statement). Ayre, Purslow or Broughton? Take your pick.
Or maybe the cancers had some sort of devious underhand way of stalling the process.
My worry is why RBS/Broughton are allowing the cancers to stall the process? Havent they done enough stalling.
Either way the silence is deafening.
|
 #129 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 19, 2010 @ 4:47 pm
Imagine everything was made public, we all (fans, journalists, unassociated finance experts) scrutinised it and all came to the conclusion that the Chinese bid would give us a stable financial footing and money to rival City. Now imagine we all knew this and the deal did not go through. How would we all view the board? We’d think they all were a bunch of incompetent fucks right? This is why I think they want it on the quiet. So they don’t look like arseholes if it all goes tits up.
My simple question is: Can H&G block the sale? If so then what was the point bringing in BarCap and Broughton in the fucking first place? RBS need to show some balls and force the issue.
|
 #130 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 19, 2010 @ 5:17 pm
I’ll read the full post from Evans’ podcast later. I read the other comments and all I can say is exactly what I have been told and what I’ve been saying since last week…
It’s being done, Broughton is the man we need to hope does the right thing, bankers seem to think he will. RBS and Barcap have already pulled the plug on H&G.
Like I said last week, they were relying on RBS not bringing in the penalty clauses… they have.
There’s no way they can pay them… they are fucked.
Huang is trying to hijack it all by pushing it through.
But ask yourselves this lads…
Who do you trust, Broughton or Huang?
Personally I know fuck all about Huang. I know very little of Broughton either, but I have been assured, he will do the right thing because his own reputation/career will take a right knock if he doesn’t.
That’s the thing that makes me believe he will. Not for LFC’s sake… for his own.
As for Kenny Huang, well, I remember H&G waving dollars, promising Snoogy Doogy… I see no difference in what Huang is doing.
And if we wouldn’t have been duped by that last time, we would have had Shiekh Makthoum/DIC and not been in this mess..
We’d have probably won the league by now and been all settled.
So, I can’t tell anyone what to do or think, I’m just stating me own point…
I’d rather see us get fuck all and the bank take us over rather than fuck it up again.
As for Tony Evans, well, I said it in here once before, because I don’t like name dropping I never said much about it, but I have been in contact with Tony and Rory Smith from time to time throughout this all – usually when they are quizzing me on what I know.
That’s not a slur on either of them, or making out they know nothing. They are both sound in my book. But at the end of the day, it’s Stephen Hester, Broughton and the other fella at BarCap that will decide it all. Not journalists, not H&G, not Purslow, not anyone.
And LB, don’t worry. I’m assured the bank is not playing ball no more…. 2.5 mill a week since the last extension – nah, mate. They are fucked.
Oh and as for journos… I’ve knocked back 3, all sniffing round, found my email address somehow and promised us stories in their papers, if I tell them exactly what I know…
FFS, how credible is that.
They know nothing.
Last word on Roy…
Since when did you have to watch the manager to know that he knows what he is doing?
I don’t work for the English media. I’m not impressed by some English fella showing his “Passsion.” I’m not impressed by some red faced old Scottish Tramp, doing the Birdie Song Dance pointing at his watch and screaming. I’m not impressed by some Woody Allen Lephrecaun bouncing around like a monkey on a stick.
I judge managers by how they can change a game when things aren’t looking good. It wasn’t on Sunday. The only substitutions Roy made were like for like or forced through injury and still like for like.
Yep far too early to judge. But I think what I’ve said is legitimate.
|
 #131 |
sachem
Posted on August 19, 2010 @ 5:18 pm
Oh, fucking hell. As Tony Evans says, this whole thing has become so convoluted. It’s impossible for any one of us to know for sure why things are happening the way they do, or to predict what or when something is going to happen. There’s a lot pointing in the direction of a lingering nightmare here, but only fuck knows.
LB, I don’t think H&G do have the legal ability of blocking the sale. It’s down to Martin Broughton to do what he was appointed to do, arrange a sale that is in front of all beneficial to the club and thereby keeping his impeccable reputation. The only snag I can see there is that he was (more or less) appointed by H&G. RBS can in theory force the sale through, but as Tony Evans pointed out, that could backfire on them in a most unfavorable way as a politically hot potato.
Anyway, it does seem like the Chinese are serious and do have huge amounts of money available to them. Their aim is to make profit from LFC however and I wonder how we could be sure of them keeping promises. That is something Martin Broughton will also have to make sure in order to retain his reputation. The question is whether it can be sorted out before the Chinese decide to give it all up.
|
 #132 |
Reds in Aus
Posted on August 19, 2010 @ 5:30 pm
Personally I’m surprised some big bald angry liverpool fan hasn’t booked a flight to the US to pay our greedy thieving friends a ‘visit’ so they realise that leaving with no money may be there best option.
Can’t wait to be done thinking about those cunts.
|
 #133 |
Reds in Aus
Posted on August 19, 2010 @ 5:36 pm
Hope the boys go for the jugular early tonight get a few goals so we can relax and rest a few for the return leg particularly as it is in eastern Turkey.
|
 #134 |
timmytorres
Posted on August 19, 2010 @ 5:51 pm
Artful,thanks for posting that but i have to admit pal i only read a little bit.
To be honest i`m trying to take my mind off all of the speculation right now.When the news about Hueng broke on the sunday night i spent the next five days hoping and praying this would all come to a head.I was reading every link,article and snippets from the ITK`s and my hope was groing stronger every day.
It all seemed to be coming to a head on friday with the “statement” about to be released and it was the biggest of anti-climax`s when the statement read effectively “no comment”.
Then we got the bit of info from FS`s guy at RBS and things went quiet.So i`ve decided to try and take my mind off it all now until something concrete is announced.I`m only going to drive myself crazy if i`m constantly concentrating on it.
The end game is near for H&G.Hopefully we have new dependable owners soon.So until then i`ll sit and wait and try concentrate on the footy and in the meantime if there`s anything i can do,in the fight against H&G,then as always i`ll do me bit.
Looking forward to the game tonight.I`d like to see Torres get some game time.He needs to build his sharpness back.I also would like to see pacheco given a run in behind the striker in the absence of Joe Cole.
|
 #135 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 19, 2010 @ 5:56 pm
FFS if a puppy isn’t just for Christmas, I’m sure we can think owning LFC is for a wee bit longer than the end of the transfer window.
What’s the ruch Mr Huang?
Why you going to spit your dummy if you don’t get the club in the next couple of weeks?
Is there something you don’t want us to see if we take our time?
FFS lads, instant gratification…
When are we going to learn. It’s already got us in this mess. It’s already cost us a European champion manager.
It’s already seen us go to a point from which we may never have returned.
Stop falling for this X-Factor society.
Shankly worked 7 years to become an overnight sensation.
Smith and Robinson never told us fuck all until it was done.
Not so long ago, people were slatting Rafa for doing dirty washing in public.
Have a wee bit of patietence.
I hate to say, I told you so… But I did.
And Gerry and the old hands in here will back me up on that. When people were dancing in the streets over H&G… I warned they weren’t to be trusted.
When people screamed for Rafa’s head, I warned to be careful you might get what you’re wishing for.
Well, I’m doing it again.
Fuckinell, if someone would have told me a few years back, that an aul scally like me would end up the voice of patientce…
I’d have had them sectioned.
But lad’s, like I always say…
We’ll see.
And waiting right now, is not a bad thing.
|
 #136 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 19, 2010 @ 6:03 pm
Timmy mate… if you read it, it didn’t say no comment. Go read it again, or have a look at the post I made about it a few posts back. It basically said, what we’d been told…
The bids are on the table.
The banks/board are doing due diligence.
A statement won’t be made until a decision is made.
I’ve no problem with that.
But for anyone who feels like a kid on Christmas eve, well, the RBS fella like I said, did say…
They will pull the shutters down. It will be done in silence. It won’t be announced, but, maybe, just maybe, we could hear something by the end of the week.
He hasn’t let us down before. Let’s see if he’s right. But even if we hear nothing, I don’t think it’s a let down. It seems to be getting done the right way. Let’s wait and see, and on that note…
I’m having a can and getting ready for the game.
I’d love to see Aquilani in the middle there with Lucas tonight.
|
 #137 |
Aitch
Posted on August 19, 2010 @ 6:09 pm
“I’m not impressed by some Woody Allen Lephrecaun bouncing around like a monkey on a stick.”
Defo “comment of the blog” award nominee!
A couple of things…
Like me, you all have an undeniable passion for LFC.
In this matter (the sale) you must set it aside.
1. “act in the best interest”
Of whom?
Why do any of you assume that any one of these fuckers involved has the best interests of LFC (meaning the club and the fans) at heart.
The simply DO NOT.
Not one of them is a dyed in the wool, red till dead, born and bred, LFC fan.
They are businessmen. All of them.
RBS will do what is right for RBS.
Broughton will do what is right to maintain his reputation.
G&H will try to hang on tooth and nail, to stay put or to walk away with as much as possible.
And the others on the board (Nash, Ayre, Purslow) will use their votes to get them something out of the deal.
When (if) the sale goes through…
Broughton will get the kudos for doing the deal… but once the deal is done, he’s out, and so endeth whatever he’s currently getting paid by LFC… so if there is a “bonus” to be negotiated, you can bet your red arse he’s negotiating it.
Purslow is on a temp contract as Managing Director, so would the Chinese want to keep him, given that he failed in his primary brief… which was to bring investment in and save his previous bosses? … My thinking is… Not!
But he’s not likely to want to vote in G&H’s favor, so my guess is his vote is for sale to Huang… and a negotiation must take place not just for the club, but for what he gets in return for voting in their favor… i.e. to keep his job, or a big “thanks for your vote” severance package.
I reckon Nash and Ayre will stay on. They seem good at their jobs and have stayed out of the limelight though most of this.
They are more integral to the daily business dealings of the club, so I reckon the Chinese would keep them in place…
…but they still have 2 crucial and perhaps “tie-breaking” board votes… so again…
…what if any negotiations are being conducted to swing those 2 votes in either G&H’s direction, or Huang’s??
2. “administration”
The natural assumption is that if G&H default on their loan on October 6 that the club will go into administration.
But according to most of the articles I’ve read, you know… proper articles, not News of the World and Sky bollocks (and there is a comment to this effect in Evans’ statements above) should RBS seize the club on October 6, something about the way the loan and its default was structured, is in a manner that does not involve administration. It comes down to the wording of the contract/agreement.
RBS would become owners of LFC, no receivership, no administration, and could then sell to whoever they see fit. G&H would have the least legal recourse should that happen, because rather than dispute a sale against their wishes, they’ve defaulted on a contract.
Again though… any such deal isn’t going to be out of the goodness of their (RBS’s) own hearts… for the ultimate benefit of LFC fans.
RBS loses a substantial daily revenue stream when the club is sold to new owners… so you can bet your red arse once again, that any negotiations to sell the club, involves RBS providing some sort of loan so they can still be financially involved with the club.
(I read somewhere about a 100 million pound loan to any new owners… which would seem to make sense!)
3 White Night Syndrome
Those of you expecting a White Knight to ride in and save us all with a Brinks Truck full of Gold Bars, really ought to wake from your slumber and begin slowly killing that dream right now.
Whoever buys LFC will do so with a business plan in mind, be it short or long… that looks to making THEM the most money off of US.
That is just the way it is.
LFC is a business… one that tries to part us from our hard earned money, be it for a match ticket, a shirt with Stevie G’s name on the back of it, an internet subscription, a SkySports (or whatever its called in your particular country) subscription, or red sheets for your new tadpole’s crib!
And this is nothing new… its just that we’ve always felt that Liverpool had a different way of going about this, than other clubs… but go about it they did.
The club is in a complete and utter mess…
…in terms of the actual way it is being run…
…in terms of the current financial structure…
…in terms of the convoluted process that will be the actual sale…
…and whoever buys the club will have to sort all that out…
…first during the sale process, which will likely involve greasing palms… so I suspect there’ll be a fair bit of money exchanged in “off the books” deals to make it happen…
…and second in terms of restructuring the club operationally…
…and third looking forward (playing staff/transfer windows, the Manager, New Stadium, New UEFA rules.)
The question is not…
Will new owners be businessmen?
The question is…
What type of businessmen will the new owners be?
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 #138 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 19, 2010 @ 6:40 pm
Aitch, we hope they will be business men who deem a successful team integral to maximising their profit. Therefore investing in the stadium and competing at the top end in the transfer market.
How is that umpire?
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 #139 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 19, 2010 @ 6:59 pm
Reina
Aurelio
Kyrgiakos
Carra
Kelly
Jovanovic
Poulsen
Lucas
Rodriguez
Cole
Babel
Subs: Diego, Torres, Wilson, Ngog, Spearing, Skrtle, Pacheco.
No Aquilani – does he still have the shits or does Roy not rate him? Stevie rested?
|
 #140 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 19, 2010 @ 7:12 pm
I hope he has the shites LB. Cos if he rates the Oompa Loopa over Aquilani, that’s it. I’m finished before it starts.
Not a bit pleased with that line up, and I don’t care who thinks that’s treacherous.
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 #141 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 19, 2010 @ 7:20 pm
Well I just saw Aquilani walking through the corridor in his suit so he cant be that bad.
|
 #142 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 19, 2010 @ 7:22 pm
Pundits waxing lyrical about the strength of our squad. Can you believe it?
|
 #143 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 19, 2010 @ 7:23 pm
So did I mate, but apparently it’s a virus.
Oh well, not to worry. The ITV talking heads just told me how good the squad is, and seeing the feel good factor is back under Roy, well…
sort of makes me wonder, why we all got so upset in the first place. Silly us, eh.
Oh and yeah… that is sarcasm at it’s worst.
|
 #144 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 19, 2010 @ 7:24 pm
You beat me to it…
You couldn’t fuckin make it up could you mate.
Oh well off to watch Roys Rovers.
|
 #145 |
Lurgankop
Posted on August 19, 2010 @ 7:27 pm
ah fuck it’s started already:
- 2nd string put out showing the strength of Roy’s squad.
- Roy unbeaten in 3 games
- putting the feel good factor back into the club
How fuckin’ two faced can you get. Not havin’ a go at Roy but our beloved press/media.
Rafalution, if you can stick the commentary and have a pretty decent internet connection, you can watch the match here:
http://mypremium.tv/
Not the best stream but better than nothing I suppose.
|
 #146 |
Lurgankop
Posted on August 19, 2010 @ 7:31 pm
so I guess that there is a couple of minutes lag in my stream
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 #147 |
Aitch
Posted on August 19, 2010 @ 7:34 pm
Yeah LB, and there really are Hookers with Hearts of Gold, who look like Julia Roberts!
Hmmm…
Reina
Kelly, Carra, Soto, Aurellio
Maxi, Lucas, Poulsen, Babel
Cole and Jova
Crikey, 7 changes…
…that is what I call rotation…
oh no wait, rotation is what Rafa did…
…its only “shuffling the pack” by Roy!
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 #148 |
Aitch
Posted on August 19, 2010 @ 7:38 pm
And yeah LB, I’m not suggesting that Huang might not be a businessman who’s intent is to make money, but still do things “the right way”…
(that is the hope/dream, is it not?)
… I just laugh when I read some opinions about the takeover…
… the amount of cluelessness some people have about the situation is staggering…
…and I’m sorry to say this, but even from some people who have been coming in here regularly, where these things get pointed out on a regular basis.
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 #149 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 19, 2010 @ 7:53 pm
If Carra launches one more aimless long ball I’ll scream!
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 #151 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 19, 2010 @ 7:57 pm
Poulsen couldn’t pass the parcel.
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 #152 |
Lurgankop
Posted on August 19, 2010 @ 8:18 pm
I can’t wait until I see us play at home!
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 #153 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 19, 2010 @ 8:36 pm
“Nice finish Ryan, now get in the showers.”
Lovely eh.
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 #154 |
red4life
Posted on August 19, 2010 @ 9:05 pm
rojadirecta.com is good for some links as is myp2p.eu
I tend to use the iraqgoals link even though the connection is only 200k it still gives a decent image
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 #155 |
rafamuffin
Posted on August 19, 2010 @ 9:11 pm
I think poulsen is rusty and will get better shows signs of composure when on the ball and is not a hot potato player but i think he and lucas need to play with a creative player.I am in favour of two holding midfielders but one of them needs to have a bit of creative play in their game.Also i think babel could be a very effective player for us down the righthand side in front of johnson defensives tend to be a bit tentative when faced with raw pace my ist choice team unless we are playing the big guns and have to change our tatics accordingly is…………….REINA………………………JOHNSON…..CARRAGHER…AGGER……AURELIO…………………………………………………………….POULSEN…GERRARD………………………………………………………………………………COLE………………………BABEL…………………………JOVANOVICH…………………..TORRES……………………..
Obviously if masch stays and we sign a quality left back this formation would change.I think we need to get our forward line firing again this season.If we score plenty i’ve got a lot of confidence in our defence to shut down the other end and i think we will do well.ps would love too see another quality striker to backup nando at the moment if torres gets injured we have to play eggnog who i am warming to but is not ready to lead the line at the greatest clup in the universe
ynwa
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 #156 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 19, 2010 @ 9:32 pm
We looked a very very ordinary side tonight. I cannot remember too many moments of quality at all. Our midfield had no imagination, no guile, no pace, it lacked quality. The fullbacks never got forward, I cannot remember a single overlapping run. How many clear openings did we create? Joe Cole has hardly played behind the striker throughout his career – all of a sudden he is a shoe-in for the position for us? I can’t remember ever seeing him take a penalty until tonight. Now I know why. He’s actually just admitted the last time he took a pen was when he was 13 years old. Great.
Torres looked a bit like his old self. We’ll certainly need him at the top of his game going by the performance of our midfield.
It was torture watching some of that tonight.
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 #157 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 19, 2010 @ 9:47 pm
Let’s have it right lads. In all fairness to Roy, things he got right…
Firstly, the whole squad wearing the new club suits. Sickened to see that kunt Purslow in it, but it was good to see.
That might sound like stupid, small potatoes, but it’s not. It shows solidarity and unity. It doesn’t just look good, it makes a statement. Real good move that, and if it was Roy that made it…
I take me hat off to him.
2: Poulson. Far better than I expected. Again, too early to judge, but could be a really smart move for us taking him on.
3: I near hit the roof at half time when Nando appeared. Done my head in.
Babel had stunk. Let’s have it right, he was woeful, but didn’t he take that goal well.
I was gutted when he didn’t reappear and I don’t even like the lad. On top of that, I was thinking why are you risking Nando in this. But you have to admit, they looked a different side for them first ten minutes of the second half and hopefully the half has helped Nando when I was terrified he could have got crocked.
So, I’ll leave it at that. No point on focusing on the negatives.
But I do have to say this…
The fucking talking heads make me absolutely ill. The hypocrisy is absolutely disgusting. But, once again, you can’t blame Roy for that.
Have to mention this cracker at the end of the game though…
“Roy Hodgson, the only manager of LFC to win his first three European games on the bounce besides Bill Shankly.”
Fuckinell.
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 #158 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 19, 2010 @ 9:50 pm
PS… Tell the tech boys the comments section is acting up again.
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 #159 |
Lurgankop
Posted on August 19, 2010 @ 10:12 pm
We were poor tonight and, when you think about it, it was probably to be expected at the start of this season.
These guys have been drilled to do a certain thing in a certain situation by Rafa and now Roy has come in and, let’s say, has a taken less scientific approach.
Look at what happened to Ranieri after he took over at Valencia. All the Valencia lads where lost and auld Claudio got the boot pretty tout de suite after. What I mean is that it’s difficult to follow Rafa because his methods are (pretty) unique.
Lastly, why pull Babel just after scoring a decent goal. That type of shite can ruin a player’s confidence, if I am not mistaken!
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 #160 |
timmytorres
Posted on August 19, 2010 @ 10:34 pm
FS 136,your right it wasn`t “no comment” i think i worded it right.We were all expecting it,at the time for it to be announcement of a sale or at least that the board have chosen there preferred option,but it wasn`t to be.
Anyway once we get the right owners,thats the main thing.We can survive with the squad we have for the moment.
Second half tonight was much better than the first ,not that,thats saying much.Anyway Roy started with what was effectively a second string.He would have been better off playing a stronger side and trying to bring a proper lead to turkey.He could have played that team next week with the tie over.
I honestly thought Ryan Babel was injured.Ryan is a confidence player and it was a fine finish from him.To be pulled straight away,and so early on will not go down to well for his confidence.I remember Rafa continuosly getting ripped for such a move.
I don`t want to keep going back and saying “if rafa did that bla bla bla” but it now proves beyond doubt that there was a massive media whichunt,bias,call it what you ill against Rafa and not some scouse paranoia.
It aint Roys fault though.
Jovanovic was again impressive tonight.I was happy to see fernando get more match time.I know you said FS that it could have been a dodgey move but i think its important he gets his match fitness back asap.I`m sure the medical have been keeping tabs on this and had a say on how many minutes he should get.
I had the phone in on there,this is Anfield,one guy came on and as saying he`s on the verge of tears,tears of joy.How roy has brought back the lovely football and its a bright new dawn for LFC.The liverpool way is back bla bla bla.
That poor lad could be heading for a mighty fall.Sorry he`s not exactly a lad,he`s followed the reds 35 years which qualifies him to assume these things.
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 #161 |
pshenava
Posted on August 19, 2010 @ 10:35 pm
Our build up play was non existent and the moments of quality and goal that was created all involved moments of fortune.
The penalty decision was bad. I don’t know who else could have taken it but a certain Torres was on the field and surely the coach has to put his hands up.
Roy definitely cannnot be naive to give a guy who has not taken a penalty since 13. Rafa would have been slaughtered for such a game or decision and would have been blamed for destroying Joe’s confidence (I am not making up simply because the lad couldn’t out it in) but Roy is hailed..haha hypocrisy.
1-0 lead is slender and Trabonspur (I can’t spell it) is a difficult place. If Roy wins this tie its good else you could easily see the pressure staring to creep and there was no reason for us to have felt the pressure if we could have put the tie to bed today.
Our squad had quality with only couple of injuries to agger and mascherano and still we cannot win anything comfortably. By the way last year when Skrtel and Carra clashed Skrtel did come off and Carra’s injury was not serious as it was his head which hit Skrtel’s jaw. We cannot compare the concussion that Agger suffered (with a ball hurling at you at great speeds and you are taken by surprise) and I hear that he is not keeping well with no memory of the game. I think that is bad and he was allowed to continue was it me who was smoking crack or someone on the coaching and medical staff?
I hope the guy recovers fast and my worry is uncalled for.
Regarding giving Roy time I have seen couple of games and he hasn’t filled me with confidence despite the luxury of a full strength squad.
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 #162 |
timmytorres
Posted on August 19, 2010 @ 10:36 pm
Should have read “worded it wrong”
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 #163 |
Aitch
Posted on August 19, 2010 @ 11:01 pm
Lets get the facts straight pshenava
I just watched a rebroadcast of the Spurs game a few weeks ago.
Skrtel came off after the collisoon, but after treatment, came back on for about 5 minutes, and was then subbed.
Carra played the whole game, but to characterize it as “not a serious injury” ignores the fact that it was reported he did so with a concuission.
He also played the subsequent 2 games, but still suffering from the effects of said concussion.
Skrtel was subbed and missed 1 game with his concussion, and then played the next 3 games… it was later reported… with a hariline fracture to the jaw.
Such was our injury list at the time, that these two had to play on, with serious injuries, coz we only had 3rd string back-ups fit.
As for todays game…
…the text thing on the BBC made it sound as though we were all over them and it was only their keeper kept them in it…
…but that’s not how it sounds in here at all???
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 #164 |
dougle
Posted on August 19, 2010 @ 11:09 pm
Hi gang -
saw some of the second half with the new nipper slung on the chest. He’s getting his first subliminal football education already .. he’s not called Liam by the way !
Lurgan – 152 – a cracker !
Aurelio should have taken that spotter. Goalie too young, was gonna guess, just wait and keep cool, slide it the other way. It needed a cool head and JCole doesn’t have it (yet).
I am not making any new judgements on players or performances (certainly nothing negative) until things have settled and the September deadline is here … however … this is the internet and no-one wants to read holy-joe posts so here goes for my (not new) criticism … Jamie hoofed the **** out of that ball tonight. There was one stage, late in the game when he did it 3(?) times in a minute and man it’s depressing.
It makes playing Liverpool a doddle, just close down the other defenders and then Jamie hoofs it no-where. It’s a bloody joke. Roy has got to teach the old Dog a new trick, look up, pass, simple.
It was good to see Fabio back and having a few pot-shots, likewise Kelly. Thought Soto defended and attacked well. Milan a top buy (thank you Rafa), he faded later, as did most of the team, but I like what I see. Lucas was pretty good but christ he really has to learn to head a ball at goal, he missed another sitter tonight. Poulsen was ok for a first game and you have to remember that this team had never played before and CP was making his debut. Torres looked lively. So ok 1-0 is a long way from safe but one goal over there and we should be ok particularly if it’s the first one.
JColes penno, Lucas header, Poulsen’s “goal”, Milan’s chance … we should have been out of sight.
Well it should be a cracker next week anyway.
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 #165 |
pshenava
Posted on August 19, 2010 @ 11:22 pm
Yes we could have put the tie to bed tonight but we are still repeating the same mistakes from last season despite a much fitter line-up. But one thing which I see missing from last season already is that our build-up play and stretching the opposition.
Perhaps this is the style that Roy wants us to adopt. We are unable to keep possession and look narrow. Trabonspur could easily nicked a goal with their captain one on one against Reina. Dougle congrats mate. Even I was doing the same watching this with my 1 week old girl.
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 #166 |
sachem
Posted on August 19, 2010 @ 11:24 pm
Aren’t we arguing mere trifles here with Roy’s decisions? The full story behind decisions is rarely known, and a lot of times people seem to judge decisions based on their own speculation.
I used to say the same when people argued over Rafa’s substitutions. There might be a story behind it we don’t know about and I don’t see the reason to criticize these things unless the argument can be backed up properly.
Perhaps Babel’s confidence got a blow when he was substituted after that goal, and perhaps it was all decided before the game he was going to play 45 minutes.
I think we should trust in Roy’s many years of experience to make the right call with these minor decisions. These are not the things I’m worried about when it comes to Roy Hodgson’s managerial qualities.
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 #167 |
timmytorres
Posted on August 19, 2010 @ 11:32 pm
Well Aitch the Keeper didn`t do too bad.To say he singled handedly kept them in it is an overstatement.
I`d have saved joe`s penalty meself and the only other save of note i can recall would be from Milan.
Admittedly i hadn`t full concentration on the first half as the kiddies were still running mad around the house!
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 #168 |
timmytorres
Posted on August 19, 2010 @ 11:35 pm
PS Anybody know anything about windows.I cant narrow the page without the words getting lost.I`ve to scroll across the bottom to get all the comments in>
Can anyone help,i`m sure it something simple i`m just a numpty with these things
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 #169 |
rome77
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 1:36 am
Just got back and i’ll tell you one thing those Turks are a noisy bunch drowned out the home crowd who clapped like seals before YNWA was finished and basically resorted to boo’ing and whistling . Me and my mate & 3 ten year olds started singing “we’re not singing anymore” it was that bad.
Anyway i thought we was poor apart from a period after Roy destroyed Babels confidence ¦ ) and really should of been going over there with a 3-0 as its going to be a intimidating atmosphere and its going to be physical.
I wanted Soto to take the pen as it would of wound the Turks up and with hindsight he wouldn’t have done any worse than Cole.
Anyone know why the second goal got disallowed ?
PS Before i get a bollacking no official merchandise / food was bought and the tickets were only £10 adults £5 kids which is a step in the right direction.
YNWA
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 #170 |
gazmaninaus
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 1:51 am
Apparently Aqua is going out on loan, to some team in italy. Why don’t we lend him to an English team. I’m afraid not many ever come back from loans.
.
I think the medical people just can’t trust him to get through the season.
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 #171 |
rome77
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 2:25 am
Re Aquillani loan
“It would certainly be what he needs, it would certainly protect the value of the player and when he does return to Liverpool no doubt we will see the Aquilani that we signed before he came here injured last year.”
Well Roy what about the Aquillani we saw at the end of last season ??? In his haste to have another sly dig he hasn’t thought through what he’s saying.
I’m finding it increasingly hard to like him mainly because of the media as i have my own motto
“my enemies friend is my enemy”
Now if your thinking i’m picking on him its because of that.
I actually liked him before he came here but its slowly changing.
On the subject of in game instruction Pepe was giving Torres instructions to push out wide and during the pen he ran up to the half way line to give instuction to Soto and kelly i think.
Why was HE doing this ?
YNWA
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 #172 |
gazmaninaus
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 2:39 am
Rome I don’t know what your saying there lad, we hardly saw Aqualani last year, so who is he having a dig at. Do you think he’s sending him out as a slap in the face for Rafa, don’t think so, Rafa didn’t use him either.
.
I think he’s hoping he plays well and ups his price in the loan period. All the best Alberto, you wont be back, no-one ever is.
.
Lastly Pepe is the goal keeper and an experience defender, him talking to his players is part and parcel of what he does, dot some conspiracy theory, goalkeepers always spot little detail, other miss.
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 #173 |
rome77
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 3:37 am
Gaz
Rafa did use him sparingly and from what i saw he was the biz.
So now he’s fully fit or so the new doc says, i’d expect for him to be given a chance.
And yes it is a sly dig read it again “no doubt we will see the Aquilani that we signed ” ie injured
then adds “before he came here injured last year” thats a dig its nothing to do with the loan or current situation so why add that.
Then again CP deals with tansfers and probably prepares his statements.
Either that or he’s starting to believe his own press.
RE Pepe spots thing because he’s stood back looking at a bigger picture and rightly tells his players where he wants them which is the same for a manager whose not only in a better position its his job to spot these things like what i was saying @106.
I just found it strange a goalie running 50 yards to tell someone 20 yards from the manager where they should be, or shouting in spanish ( i think ) to Torres pushing him out wide, presumably to receive long clearances
Who’s managing this team ?
|
 #174 |
gazmaninaus
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 3:48 am
Rome he didn’t really stand out in pre-season, so i’m wondering whether, they think he can’t cut it in the prem. Anyway, I thought he was a wonderful skillful player, playing in a rigid team. Thats now changed to a new Manager who may or may not want him.
.
I think he’s just one of those players you want to keep but can’t use very often and that’s not fair on him.
.
I still don’t think Roy was having a dig at Rafa, I thought it come across as the club bought him because of how he played before he got injured. The lads a talent, lets hope it works out.
|
 #175 |
donalfromthegap
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 4:44 am
Right lads
Just watched the game heres what i got from it
Poulsen: a bit rusty but doesnt look too shabby at all. A lot of sideways and backward passing to keep things ticking over not exactly a xabi when it comes to forward passing though. Still not a bad debut after a year on the bench.Pity he’s goal didn’t stand!
Babel: Nice goal would like to see him play a bit more in the last chance saloon category though if im not mistaken hes stil only 22
Torres: looks like a snake primed for the strike.
Cole: Played pretty well but needs a goal to get him settled before he turns into Keane/crouch category of waiting for months to break the deadlock/ make a good impression.
Kelly: Jamie Carraghers little brother
Pepe: still ‘superreina’in my eyes
Aurelio: gave the ball away alot but looked like hes finding his range from set pieces
Jovanovic: linked up well with torres in the second half
Roy: jury’s hanging and probably will be for a while for me. I respect the man and will support him but it just feels like I dumped Jessica Alba when I was drunk and woke up with Susan Boyle under me arm. Sorry Roy Rafa is a hard act to follow in my book and I dont want the chinese government to take over and spend 100 million on half of scandanavia. But I will support the man with all the red that is in me and give him the benefit of the doubt.
Anyways thats how I feel
Over and out
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 #176 |
donalfromthegap
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 4:45 am
Also wondering whats the craic with Aquaman
was really looking forward to seeing him this year!
Over
|
 #177 |
Reds in Aus
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 7:32 am
all those struggling with the comments page – use internet explorer if you have it (firefox is doing the same thing to me but IE isn’t)
I think people have been surpirsingly positive.
I don#t want to be burgerman but I was pretty depressed from the game. Pepe is Pepe genius is my book. Torres and Jova were both bright. Jova runs so hard he gets tired though.
Soto was huge. Besides that I though we were ordinary at best.
I can’t even blame jamie for the hoofs, in the first half he was passing it to the midfielders who would run back to collect the ball (i.e. poulsen) who then pass it straight back to carra and offer nothing. It was astonishing.
The biggest thing that fucked me off is that when cole was taking the penalty I think one liverpool shirt followed the ball in. What the fuck?! If a keeper saves a pen they very rarely catch the ball.
If you watch the replay maxi was standing on the edge of the box and after cole kicks it he just turned around and ran back did take a stingle step inside the box. Understandably the turk defenders who did follow the penalty just jogged into the area kicked the ball and got it out of there. IMO that is completely unforgivable and either shows how moronic we are, how lazy/tired we are, or that we are betting against ourselves?! I am still livid
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 #178 |
Arthur G. Posis
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 8:30 am
hello all:
Decent, if unspectacular result. First half unsurprisingly we looked like a team that never played with each other (7 changes) but I thought we really played some lovely stuff up to and around the award of the ill-fated penalty. After that it seemed our tempo took a bit of a kicking and we never really got going again.
Pluses: Nando looking sharp and hungry, Poulsen growing in influence as game wore on, Jovanovic eager and willing and fuck it – nice to see Babel score a goal on a rare start up front. I agree with FS though, he was mostly awful.
Oh and lads – calm down (and yes I’m looking at you Pshenava) it was already arranged that Babel would get 45 mins and Torres the 2nd 45 mins. Just as it had also been decided before the match that JC would take the peno. Gutted for him by the way – not exactly a dream start to his LFC career but I’m still confident he’ll come good – and another decent assist.
I suppose another big positive is that we didn’t concede an away goal but next thursday’s gonna be very tough. But this competition IS NOT a priority so no real damage done if we get knocked out. But still fancy us to grab a goal out there and get through.
|
 #179 |
KENNY DALGLISH LFC LEGEND
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 8:32 am
Ok here’s my take on things.
If Aqua is going out on loan then I am very very disapointed and worried. For me Joe Cole has to be pushed wide left with Aqua just behind Torres and Gerrard paired with Mash or Lucas. My strongest line up everyone fit would be;
Pepe
Johnson Carra Agger Aurelio
Kuyt Gerrard Monster Cole
Aqua
Torres
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 #180 |
KENNY DALGLISH LFC LEGEND
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 8:52 am
That team for me has the right blend of creativity, hard men, hard work, commitment and skill.
Right last night’s game.
We were crap in the first half, proper crap. But I put that down to not having a decent pre season, rustiness and having a second string line up.
Joe Cole needs to stop thinking it’s the Joe Cole show. I know he’s desperate to impress and for me his attitude has been a breath of fresh air but he needs to just play his natural game.
Poulsen was crap first half he acted like the ball was a hot potato. Second half I thought he was decent and was unlucky to have his goal disallowed.
Jamie Carragher – LB I read your comment last night and felt exactly the same, I was about to explode! Keep it on the floor Jamie! He’s still the best defender at the club though.
Martin Kelly – Biggest compliment I can give him is he looks like a Jamie Carragher but with a lot more skill, I think he will be phenomenal for us.
Steven Gerrard – terrible, I didn’t hear his name once, was he on the pitch?
Torres looked like he had a turbo booster in his boots – fantastic – lets hope he has a full injury free season ahead.
Babel – Stank and I was moaning my head off about him to my mate when he pops up with a sublime finish.
Roy Hodgson – Speaks with dignity but my worry is he doesn’t like flair players, hence the aqua out on loan crap. I think Ryan got 45 mins for fitness and I think that’s why Torres got 45 mins, no probs from me there, I don’t think it will affect Ryan’s confidence for two reasons.
1. He has no confidence
2. It was already decided he would play 45 mins(I think)
I thought he got it wrong bringing on Ngog with Torres, I thought a more natural fit would have been Pacheco but hey I’m in the Torres is better leading the line than having a partner playing next to him.
Reina made a great save, other than that we should be taking a 3-0 lead over to Turkey.
I have to say though the standard of officiating is diabolical, terrible!, unbelievably bad. We should have had to penos. Video replays for me please, the goal should have stood as well.
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 #181 |
KENNY DALGLISH LFC LEGEND
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 8:58 am
Oh just in case, the Stevie G comment is me being ironic. Last night the commentator said “this game needs a moment of Steven Gerrard magic. Now if Stevie G sitting on the bench can perform a moment of magic on the pitch then there is no doubt about it, he is the best player on the planet.
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 #182 |
artful_dodger74
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 9:43 am
I have to agree with arthur there: I think it was pre-arranged that Babel would get 45 mins and Torres would come on in the second half to build up his fitness. Risky for Torres, but he needs to build up his game time before the City game because he so behind in pre-season. So a necessary evil as far as i’m concerned. Dont think Babel’s confidence would have been that dented if he all ready knew he was going to be taken off before the match even started. Team comes first. And to be honest…. how long have we got Babel now? Every year, its this enigma wrapped in a puzzle, wrapped in rubiks cube shit… he’s had plenty of time and games to shine and it just hasnt happened for him.
As for Aqualani going out on loan. Im absolutely baffled by that statement. What’s the point in paying his wages all last year when he was mostly injured. Finally getting him fit. Then loaning him out so somebody else can reap the benefits??? Its fuckin ridic. The guys got obvious talent. And he skill orientated player. Someone who can see a killer pass and unlock a defence. This is the type of player were desperate for. I’ll be seriously pissed off if he goes out on loan. I wonder is that dickhead Purslow telling Roy we need to cut the wage bill or something. Wouldnt be surprised.
Oh yeah Dougle #164: had me new nipper on the shoulder watching the game as well last night. Brought him close to the TV to let him watch his first LFC goal…. and then Cole goes and takes a shit peno!
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 #183 |
Arthur G. Posis
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 9:58 am
I too am unhappy with Aquilani going out on loan – I mean jaysus! we don’t have the deepest squad as it is – so what do we do? ah sure let’s make it even more shallow!
Roy’s first major gamble – and will only be vindicated if Aquaman is injured regularly for whatever club he goes to because I think he is a class player and he gives us options to play Cole/ Gerrard/ Jovanovic in different positions.
Not happy
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 #184 |
timmytorres
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 10:16 am
I can`t see the logic on loaning out Aqualini.Why,just whaen he`s got his pre-season under his belt has he decided to loan him out?
Something tells me this “feel good factor” weve been experiencing under roy might not last long.
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 #185 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 10:27 am
Lads, my best advice….
Stop listening to the muppets they call pundits. Or better still, learn to laugh at them. Because, if you keep listening to them, you’ll end up turning on Roy.
You have to understand these people are morons.
They haven’t all got a vendetta against Rafa.
They are just too simple to form an opinion of their own.
You can look at it one of two ways..
The man has gone and they still want to stab him.
Or they are so fuckin thick they just keep going along with the same old band wagon.
I know it’s rotten either way, but if you let it it will drive you mad and turn you against Roy.
I burst out laughing at them a few times last night. Here’s a few gems from the pre match build up..
After spending all last season saying how much money Rafa wasted on shit players, their first comment was on the depth of the squad Roy had at his disposal and what a good team he’d put out.
Obviously when the going got tough, they changed that to Roy was using his second string.
And I could go on and on about their hypocrisy and bias, but I’ll just get the funniest one in and fuck them. This shows the level of their expertese…
“The UEFA Cup is a tournament Roy has a great history in and knowledge of. And he’s already bringing the great European nights back to Anfield.”
Now you can let shite like that drive you mental, and risk turning against Roy and then the team. Or you can take no notice of these idiotic wankers and do your best to enjoy it – which I admit, is already a hard task for me because I know how wrong it all is and it isn’t what I signed up for.
Yes the idiot phone in “Supporters” are going to lap up “Roy’s Feel Good Football.”
But if you let them, and the media they listen to,
get to you it will only make you bitter. I have to constantly keep telling myself “This isn’t Roy’s fault. He’s not to blame for any of it.”
But if he’s letting Aquilani go out on loan, then I’m going to find it really hard to keep it up. Of course the media will label it as one of Rafa’s flops being shipped out. But I have to say, if Roy prefers the likes of Poulsen/Spearing to this highly skilled, forward thinking/moving player… well, it’s not going to be easy for me to keep thinking none of this is Roy’s fault.
I haven’t looked at anything this morning but the blog. So, I don’t know what’s going on, but if the lad is off, well, all I can say is…
I really hope his medical record justifies this, because if it’s being done as a footballing matter I will find it very hard to agree with Roy, very hard, indeed.
Did anyone else hear all the “experts” agreeing that Joe is going to be Roy’s second striker, and that he’s going to have to be given time to learn the role.
Fuckinell, 29 years old, and there’s the perfect young player for the job being shipped out on loan.
If you are going to end up not wanting Roy, well, at least let it be for footballing reasons, and not media driven shit like that.
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 #186 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 10:29 am
So we signed Poulsen and send Aquilani out on loan. And we thought Rafa was negative? May as well send Torres out on loan and sign Bobby Zamora. Last night’s match was like watching paint dry. Put all the positive spin on it you like but I thought it was shite. I only take solace in the fact we made 7 changes. If our general play is as poor on Monday night against City then my fears will have been confirmed.
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 #187 |
Rafalution
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 10:35 am
Aqua was starting to look the biz towards the end of last season. A bit of creativity never did any harm. So to loan him out? OMF…
Arthur, you were talking about JC. Now I could have thought we had Him playing for LFC last night, but my immediate thought was “what, Jamie Carra taking the spotkick?”. Then it dawned on me… Maybe we should refer to Joe as…well, Joe, or maybe Joco?
Just a thought, got very confused for a mo.
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 #188 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 10:46 am
ROY HODGSON is ready to let Alberto Aquilani leave Liverpool on loan in order to rebuild the midfielder’s flagging confidence.
The Italian midfielder was left out of last night’s Europa League win over Trabzonspor, having previously missed the opening 1-1 draw with Arsenal because of sickness.
Aquilani has struggled desperately to make an impact at Anfield since his £17m move from Roma 12 months ago and his attempts to make an impact have been stymied by series of injuries.
But Hodgson has a number of midfield options at his disposal and given that he is unable to promise him a starting place, the Liverpool manager feels it would be sensible for him to find a club in Serie A.
“At the moment we are considering possibly loaning him to an Italian club,” said Hodgson. “Nothing is sure about that yet so I don’t have anything definite to report.
“I didn’t want to use him (against Trabzonspor) just in case the loan goes through, because for Aquilani this year it’s very important that he plays regular football.
“Every week he has to be the number one man on the teamsheet. I can’t promise him that here so a loan move to Italy could help him in that respect.”
Many will think this is the beginning of the end for the 26-year-old, who has been linked with a number of Serie A clubs in recent months.
Hodgson, though, insists that is not the case and thinks that a temporary move away from Merseyside will revitalise Aquilani to play a role next season.
“It might be good for all parties,” said Hodgson. “It would certainly be what he needs and it would certainly protect the value of the player.
“When he does return to Liverpool no doubt we will see the Aquilani that we signed before he came here injured last year.”
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 #189 |
sachem
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 10:55 am
Just imagine Aquilani having the best season of his career at Parma FC or some club like that, while we’ll be struggling thanks to a lack of creativity and an even thinner squad. I can’t really see the logic behind this.
And remember, Mascherano wasn’t in the squad last night, so he might still get sold to Inter or Barcelona. Imagine the midfield setup left after that, we would have no chance of challenging for CL spots or even EL spots anymore. Who will want to stay then?
I hope my fears are proven dead wrong here, and that Roy knows what he’s doing, but things are looking very promising at the moment.
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 #190 |
sachem
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 10:56 am
Sorry, are NOT looking very promising, or course.
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 #191 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 11:17 am
Having read the statement, I can see sense in that.
Aquilani does need to start playing football regularly.
But here’s me problem with it…
It’s obvious, Roy is going to play Joe Cole in the hole behind Torres.
I’d prefer a fit Aquilani in there ahead of Cole, but Roy is the manager not me.
So, still no real problem there.
He has to make a decision.
But and here’s the rub…
Joe Cole is 29.
He’s going to need resting throughout the season.
He’s already had 2 career threatening injuries.
He’s not going to stay fit no matter how much Roy rotates, sorry, manages his squad.
Aquilani would be the man to play there.
But we still have other options so no problem there really.
But wouldn’t it make more sense to loan or sell Spearing?
And who will get the games in midfield when Roy’s top options are managed?
Poulsen and Spearing?
Meaning what about Shelvey and Pacheco?
Sorry, but Roy said he wanted to bring back the fast tempo, pressing the ball high up the pitch game.
I’ll back him to the hilt, if he does that.
We’ve sat deep for both the Arsenal and last night, and even for lots of the games against Robotnick.
We had the personel, both on the pitch and on the bench, to change that.
Sorry, and I really am sorry, because I don’t want to be negative about Roy, but, well, let’s just say it doesn’t make me confident about seeing the sort of football we want.
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 #192 |
Arthur G. Posis
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 11:17 am
Rumours now about Dirk being offered to Inter…
As much as I’m not a massive fan of Kuyt – unless we replace him – we’ll be further weakening our squad by this.
In my view Kuyt is a more effective right sided player than Maxi – more goals and more assists. In saying that, there are , of course, far better right sided players out there..
But right now we can’t afford to buy a Subutteo player let alone a class winger
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 #193 |
timmytorres
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 11:19 am
You have to laugh at it FS.Otherise the men in the white coats will be along very soon.
To be honest i don`t watch the pre match,half-time or full-time “analysis”.
I did turn on this is anfield last night but i had to turn it off after the man who was in tears of joy.
When the media are at it one can,ignore it,maybe laugh at it,we all know there a bunch of monkeys swinging off the same tree.
What i find hard to listen to is life long reds not seeing whats in front of them or worse,choose to ignore it.
LB you said it in a nutshell,Aqua out Poulsen in.And we already havent the strongest squad inh the world.This is in now way going to do anything for us.
He can`t gaurentee him football?
What if Rafa comes in for Masch?
I dunno i can`t see the logic in it.Maybe Roy has gaurenteed Joe Cole the position behind the striker?
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 #194 |
timmytorres
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 11:23 am
I heard that about Derek on the wireless there.If this is true then i`m going to be seething.
Anyone see Cecil on the telly last night?
The little snake in the grass and poor oul Kenny plonked in between himself and Broughton.
He really looked like he didn`t want to be there.
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 #195 |
Lurgankop
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 11:30 am
I think that we now know why Aquaman had the shits!
Will be gutted if he’s loaned out becuase the team is crying out for someone with a bit of invention.
Also I don’t see how he will be coming back to Anfield either, if RH is still manager of LFC, since part of his rationale for the potential loan was to protect his ‘value’.
All I can hope for now is that somehow it does not go through and he gets fit with us during the season.
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 #196 |
knight
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 11:31 am
My take on lst night:
1. Trabzonspor’s to be taken as a light-weight, hence the “Test” with so many changes in the team and to rest key players for the Man Shitty game.
2. Key players rested, almost half the first team players: Torres (45 minutes), Ngog, Gerrard, Skrtel, Kuyt, Johnson, Masch ( OK,he had a slight injury).
3. New players tried/experimented: Poulson, Kelly, Aurelio.
4. Result should have been at least 2-0 upbut we just were not good enough (Yet) for that…
5. Not sure about Aqualani.His agent denies he is going back to Italy. He should be playing for the Man Shitty game.
6. My line up for the Man Shitty game:
———-Reina—————–
Johnson-Carra-Skrtel-Aurelio
—–Mascerano (Poulson)———
—–Kuyt-Gerrard-Jovanovic—–
———–Cole—————–
———–Torres————–
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 #197 |
burgerman
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 11:32 am
No width, no crosses, Maxi contributed little.Need 2 wide players.Tough return leg, just 3 days after the Cita game.
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 #198 |
Lurgankop
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 11:32 am
yep, seen that Timmy. The snake was constantly spouting drivel and Kenny looked pretty bored with the whole thing.
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 #199 |
knight
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 11:34 am
And I ams assuming Aqualani is unwell with the above team. If fit, Aqualani could come in for Jovanovic. Quite a team…
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 #200 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 11:54 am
None of Joe Cole’s previous managers has played him behind the striker. Neither for England or for his clubs. What does that tell you? As far as I am concerned his best position is playing out wide either left or right and drifting in. From an attacking point of view he’d be ideal on the right drifting in with Johnson overlapping. We’d be vulnerable defensively on that side though so I’d play Cole on the left.
Jovanovic should be back up in my opinion. I see no class there, just a willing runner with a bit of pace and strength.
As our squad currently stands this would be my side:
Reina
Johnson Carra Agger Aurellio
Mascherano Gerrard
Kuyt Aquilani Cole
Torres
This represents our most balanced side in my opinion. Johnson, Agger, Gerrard, Aquilani, Cole and Torres you’d hope provide the class. Carra, Masch and Kuyt the steel. Aurellio the decent left foot. Gerrard, Aquilani, Cole and Kuyt can all rotate positions. It can be quite fluid.
However with the likes of Maxi, Jovanovic, Poulsen all in our midfield in the same game with Cole behind the striker we look like a Sam Allardyce side. I’m sorry but it bored me to tears last night.
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 #201 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 12:00 pm
Best side, but you’ll never see it…
Reina
Agger, Skrtle
Johnson, Aurelio
Mascherano
Gerrard, Cole,
Aquilani
Torres.
That would put the shits up anyone, nevermind Aquilani. But Roy will never play it.
I fear Carra, Steven and Joe wouldn’t let him.
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 #202 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 12:01 pm
PS… Gerry tell the techy lads the wrap around melarkey is happening again.
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 #203 |
sachem
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 12:09 pm
FS, don’t mean to be smart, but one obvious reason Roy wouldn’t play that side is it only contains 10 players.
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 #204 |
KENNY DALGLISH LFC LEGEND
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 1:02 pm
LB – We came up with the same side.
I don’t understand Cole getting the 2nd striker role. I used to love playing up front but I was defo a central defender.
FS – You forgot deadly Dirk.
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 #205 |
akka
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 1:15 pm
Thats a good team you have there FS.
Does anyone else have a feeling that Joe Cole signed on the condition that he will be played where he wants to play (behind the striker?)
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 #206 |
Reds in Aus
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 1:42 pm
I’ve given Roy as much respect as possible given the circumstances – but I certainly don’t see how he can justify loaning Aquaman out. Aquaman needs games – he needs to earn his spot in the side (which he was doing at the end of last year!). we will have a huge number of games with europe, EPL, FA cup, carling cup. That excuse doesn’t float with me ‘Needing games!’ we rested Stevie last night because we have so many games!
Fucked off to be perfectly honest. Was very optimistic a couple of weeks ago…
If you want to lower the wage bill because those greedy fuckers are digging there nails in then fuck someone like Maxi off – the guys is as useless as tits on a bull. He was a fair enough pick up on a free for depth but if we have wage restrictions then piss him off not aquaman!
Also although I am a fan of fabulous and I definitely would want him taking the corners instead of Steve, he played pretty poorly last night – hopefully it is just a blip because he hasn’t played much in the last 18 months – but his contribution last night was woeful.
I dont want to be only negative because there were some good points last night i.e. torres, jova and soto but the bad far outweighed them and then reading that aqua was left out because of a potential loan move has fucked me right off.
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 #207 |
Reds in Aus
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 1:46 pm
also I think I’d prefer Jova on the left than joe cole – he put a couple of great crosses in yesterday.
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 #208 |
sachem
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 2:27 pm
Well, it looks like the loan move for Aquilani is already completed more or less. It will be to Juventus and according to one of the biggest newspapers in Italy, Corriere dello Sport, there will also an option to buy included in the deal.
This is terribly disappointing for Liverpool supporters, but I can assure you it’s even worse for Roma supporters since Juventus is one of the sworn enemies and arch rivals. For them, this is like Fernando Torres joining Man Utd would be for us. I don’t think Aquilani will ever be forgiven for this if the move goes though. How could this happen?
http://www.football-italia.net/aug20r.html
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 #209 |
Reds in Aus
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 3:16 pm
Roy either has no balls (to stand up to Christian) or is making a stupid decision. Either way its pretty upsetting. I can’t see any other way of looking at it.
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 #210 |
guinnessdrinker
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 3:30 pm
in fairness lads what has aqua done exactly since he came? a few nice passes and the odd goal, i’ve seen much more promise in jova in adapting to the english game already. if he needs games but keeps getting injured let juve sort out his fitness and we might see a far better player in time?
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 #211 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 3:51 pm
GD, what promise has Jova shown? Running up a few blind alleys? Our team is littered with players who would do well in the 3,000 metre steeple chase but not so well at breaking down defences. This is supposed to be Liverpool not Bolton Wanderers. Our standards of what constitutes a good player have plummeted. If the likes of Jova and Poulsen played for Everton we’d call them shite I am sure of it.
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 #212 |
Lurgankop
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 4:21 pm
GD, what’s the point of offloading Aqua now?
The only thing that would make any sense is to get him off the wagebill and hope he has a good season in Italy and someone picks him up permenantly next summer, which is pretty much what Roy has alluded to – ‘keep his value up’.
Surely he deserves a season to show us if he can hack it in the EPL?
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 #213 |
sachem
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 4:42 pm
It might of course be that Aquilani is the sort of player that doesn’t fit into Roy’s system, that Roy have come to this conclusion after having watched and talked to the player for a couple of months now.
That does however lead to the question of why Joe Cole was signed to play behind the striker, because I think it’s obvious Aquilani could fill that role at least as good as Joe, and he’s also younger.
It does make some kind of sense that Aquilani leaves for Juventus, because he’s exactly the kind of player they have been lacking, adding creativity and quality passing.
Roy has previously said every player who leaves will have to be replaced. Liverpool just can’t afford losing any more players and expect to challenge at all.
If Aquilani is not replaced before the end of the transfer window, there must be something going on here that Roy is prevented from saying to the press.
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 #214 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 4:50 pm
Either Roy is being hamstrung and doesn’t have the balls to speak up about it or he is a fucking idiot. Take your pick.
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 #215 |
timmytorres
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 4:52 pm
Pissed right off ith this now.We could never see the full promise of Aqua last season because he was always playing catch up fitness wise.
When he did string a few games together he did start to show us glimpses of whathe can do.He was the best player on the pitch against Athletico in the europa league semi-final last year and i thought he would be like a new signing this year with the full pre-season under his belt.
I`m not happy with this at all.I don`t know who`s behind this.
1.If its roy,then its a big gamble and he`s showing us he`s sticking to his system which Aquallini clearly dosen`t fit into.
or..
2.If its Cecil pushing this through,to get someone off the wagebill,then what does that say about Roys position in the club?
And to think there`s people out there who believe Roy will bring us a prosperous new way of playing footy the right way.
They are deluded.His style will ultimately be more negative than Rafa`s ever was if any of the first few games are to go by.
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 #216 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 4:59 pm
Roy’s system has been the same as Rafa’s so far. So it’s not a question of Aquilani not fitting into it. Either he needs to reduce the wage bill or he reckons the likes of Spearing, Selvey, Poulson, Lucas and Cole are better options. If this is the case then we all should worry.
None of Roy’s teams every played attractive football so anyone expecting the “shackles” to come off are in for a shock. Its Fulham/Blackburn/Scandinavian style football all the way mate.
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 #217 |
timmytorres
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 5:13 pm
The system is set up the same.4-2-3-1.
Thing is,under roy,(so far) the team hasn`t been playing with a high tempo.The team is very deep.
Rafa`s sides,particularly at Anfield played right up in your face football.Didn`t give the opposition a second on the ball.When they were on song the football was lovely to watch.
Yes we keep harping back to the last three months of the 08/09 season.The football played in that period when everybody was on top of their game was as close as Rafa got to his ultimate plan only for the board to fuck him around again last summer.
Maybe i`m being a bit harsh on roy.Maybe we should give him more time,in fact we should.He can get it right with these players but if he isn`t prepared to give Aquallini game time then i worry.
Again i can`t help its all boiling down to cole and that position behind the front man.
I hope he didn`t give roy an ultimatum when signing.
If thats the case,who`s managing this fucking club????
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 #218 |
Reds in Aus
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 6:19 pm
Lb compare comment 209 to 214…. I think we’re onto something!
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 #219 |
somnath07in
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 6:35 pm
I agree. Poor decision to allow such a loan move for Aqua.
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 #220 |
rome77
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 7:56 pm
It gets worse, Huang has pulled out
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 #221 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 8:13 pm
Ah this week’s prize goes to Sachem 203…
You spotted the fatal flaw…
It was 10 men indeed.
Nah, to be honest, and to put it in a nutshell…
I honestly didn’t even want to put Joe Cole in.
But I thought I better had and while I was debating it in me head, I forgot Lucas.
But in honesty, I would feild this 11….
Reina
Agger, Skrtle,
Johnson, Aurelio,
Mascherano
Gerrard, Lucas, Jova,
Aquilani
Torres.
But I don’t know enough about Jova yet, and I suppose Cole should be in there.
But I’m going to be honest here…
I fear Cole could well turn into this season’s Robbie Keane. And 4 years, on 90k a week…
Oh dear.
But the thing is lads, you have to keep the faith. You have to back the players we have and Roy, and we have to give them time.
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 #222 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 8:15 pm
There goes the feel good factor.
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 #223 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 8:18 pm
Hong Kong businessman Kenny Huang has ruled himself out of the running to buy Liverpool Football Club.
A statement issued on Friday said Huang and his company QSL Sports were pulling out of takeover talks with the club.
The statement did not elaborate on Huang’s reasons for withdrawing from negotiations to buy the Anfield club.
“We thank the many Liverpool fans who expressed support for our efforts and wish the club great success in the years to come,” Huang said.
“I am now considering my future options and will be making no further comment at this time.”
Huang was the first party to openly declare and interest in buying the Merseysiders from Americans Tom Hicks and George Gillett, but refused to comment when it was claimed his bid was backed by the Chinese government.
He has formally notified Liverpool chairman Martin Broughton of his decision.
He added: “Over the past few months we learned first hand that Liverpool has a very special place in the hearts of millions of fans around the world.
“We concluded that a plan that properly capitalises the business and provides funds for a new stadium and player related costs would allow Liverpool FC to provide its great fans with the success they deserve.
“Our strategy and unique ability to expand the fan base in Asia would also have been of benefit to all.
“We regret that we will not have the opportunity to implement this strategy.”
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 #224 |
Lurgankop
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 8:23 pm
I hope to fuck that it’s just the Chinese applying some pressure. Either way, something will have to give pretty soon.
Rome, Lurgan is a pretty rough place but it’s like any Norn Iron town that has a 50-50 population split. It makes life interesting to say the least.
Your auntie had a set of balls, so to speak, breaking the religious divide. At that time it was very dangerous (potentially life threatening) to do so.
To lighten the mood, here’s a typical religious norn iron joke for ya.
Q: How do you know that E.T. is a protestant?
A: Because he looks like one!
Here is the ‘prod’ version of it.
Q: How do you know that E.T. is a catholic?
A: Because he looks like one!
Agh, we all love each other really. That’s why I moved to France
|
 #225 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 8:23 pm
The club need to give us some fucking answers.
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 #226 |
Lurgankop
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 8:28 pm
Good luck on that one LB
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 #227 |
sachem
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 8:32 pm
So it looks like the yanks won over the Chinese. Didn’t think the would pull out already to be honest. I wonder what the reasons really.
This will be a drawn-out process indeed and the pressure on Broughton to deliver just seem to have increased massively.
There are no more bids on the table as far as I know. Will RBS realize the sale probably won’t happen and force a takeover themselves?
The worst case scenario is that H&G get another extension and manage to keep the club. Tony Evans hinted in his webchat there’s still a risk of that.
If that turns out to be the case, something has to break. Don’t now what exactly, but H&G just can’t be allowed to remain as owners of LFC.
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 #228 |
pshenava
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 8:46 pm
We were a big club not so long ago despite all the problems in the boardroom only because of Rafa. Yes he is gone but he had left his mark.
However with Roy he brings in the small club mindset and our style of play will mirror his previous clubs.
As LB pointed out no more attractive football. I am gutted with the kind of players we had.
Do we seriously believe that the likes of Torres would enjoy being in this team for long?
Another point: What has Cole done to be given the honor of building a team round him? JC, SG wax lyricals about him all the time. This guy can’t even make the national team and Carlo buys a replacement (Benayoun) from us. More importantly he is not getting any younger as FS said and is as injured as Aqua is / was. He feels happy to just provide assists which if he does is good but we should expect him to score atleast 15-20 goals the way Stevie would do in the hole behind Torres.
Aqua was coming to grips close to the end of last season and this surely is a mistake. Roy is not crowning himself in glory.
Sorry mates for sounding so gloom but I don’t see any positives.
|
 #229 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 8:47 pm
Is Torres on the phone to his agent?
|
 #230 |
LeSharkNZ
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 8:50 pm
If Huang really has pulled out, RBS need to show some balls and call in the debt.
Surely RBS wont give the yank$ another extension?
When will they learn that the only way that they will get their money back is from a sale?
There is no way that the club will not survive with those two cunts in charge.
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 #231 |
Lurgankop
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 8:51 pm
FFS we just bought an up and coming 28 year old goalkeeper. If this all unravels, we could be set back so many years and… I am going to get another beer…
Shite and fuck!
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 #232 |
LeSharkNZ
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 8:54 pm
Silence is (NOT) golden. We were lead to believe everything was getting sorted behind closed doors.
Broughton needs to make a statement about what the hell is going on …. soon!
Mortimer & Randolph? Not so sure about that at the moment.
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 #233 |
rafamuffin
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 9:23 pm
This is just my opinion but whatever pool team is selected these are our untouchables who have to play if they are fit :Gerrard/Torres/Cole/Johnson/Agger/Reina/Jovanovich.I would add masch if he stays but i dont think he will due to his personal circumstances.Also i would be interested to see amoo used as a impact sub the guys got pace to burn and would give a few tired fullbacks the shits
YNWA
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 #234 |
Aitch
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 9:46 pm
There are a lot of short memories in here today.
50 odd posts discussing the possible reasons for Aqua being shunted out on loan…
… and not one of them mentioning the most significant probable factor…
Aqua did NOT cost 17 million. He cost 5.
We paid another 5 in January, (when his appearances clause kicked in.)
Which leaves a balance of 7 million pounds to be paid to Roma… NOW…
…sooooo… anyone want to guess WHY he is being shunted out???
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 #235 |
Aitch
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 9:47 pm
Ball…..
… Bouncing…..
…Where’d it gooooooo…..
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 #236 |
timmytorres
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 9:58 pm
Aitch,
Nail.Hit.Head..
Dunno what to think of the heung thing.He looked like the real deal.
Then again they all do before hand!
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 #237 |
sachem
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 10:13 pm
Aitch
Actually, I think we have already paid 75% (about £13m) of the transfer fee for Aquilani. It was divided in four and the last part is supposed to be paid in June 2011. In January we paid about £3m. There were also some additional fees/clauses included in the deal, for appearances (he hasn’t yet reached any of those amounts, detailed at lfchistory) and Champions League qualification amongst others.
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 #238 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 10:15 pm
But Aitch he is going on loan now not being sold now. So we’d still need to pay the £7m now. No?
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 #239 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 10:20 pm
The 20 million EURO transfer fee is broken up into the following:
- 4 cash instalments of
- – 5 million EURO upfront £4.25m
- – 3 million EURO by 4th January 2010 £2.5m
- – 7 million EURO by June 30th 2010 £5.9m
- – 5 million EURO by June 30th 2011. £4.25
Further Add ons include:
- 300,000 EURO for every year Liverpool qualify for the Champions League from 2010/11 to 2014/15 £255k
- 250,000 EURO everytime the player reaches 35 appearancs, 70 appearances, 105 appeances and then 140 appearances. £212k
- 1 million EURO the first time Liverpool either wins the Premier League or Champions League by 30 June 2014. £850k
- 5% of any future transfer fee will be paid to Roma.
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 #240 |
Dizzy
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 10:20 pm
Yanks getting shafted ….. i doubt …
LFC and its fans getting shafted … i can see!!!
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 #241 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 10:30 pm
If we’re that desperate that we’re forcing Aquilani out to not pay £4m, why buy Poulsen for £4.5m and Brad Jones for £2.5m?
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 #242 |
dougle
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 10:43 pm
Hi Daddies -
My take on the Aquaman situation is, footballwise, Roy does not like the look of Aquaman in a defensive capacity. Roy’s teams, playing at their peak, defend from the front. I suspect Roy does not trust Aqua to fullfill a midfield defensive role irrespective of his attacking capabilities. It’s a question of his positional and mental discipline and ability to tackle.
(I think I could think of someone else in the squad who might have the same “aspects” to his game)
As I said in 164, I’m witholding any judgement until Sept 1st when we see the squad for the season.
Of course I could be a million miles from the truth.
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 #243 |
rome77
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 10:57 pm
Another thing about the Aqillani deal is,its a swap for Poulson as Juve seems to be the destination. And i think its the only deal Hodgson has been involved with so i think he has had some input in the loan.
The only reason i can think of why he’d swap the 2 is he feels he needs some back up in the changing room and Poulson would give that physical presence (he looks like one of the bad guys in thunderbirds)http://www.thisisanfield.com/blog/2010/08/16/photo-special-liverpool-1-1-arsenal/
Either way i’m not happy
As for the takeover am i right in thinking the banks are taking 2.5 mill a week in penalty fee’s from G&H for as long as the debt goes unpaid ?
If this is the case wouldnt the banks want to stall the process and wouldnt Huang know their stalling
Lurgan You probably made the right move mate,
Neil Lennon is from there and he’s had a interesting past to say the least.
YNWA
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 #244 |
akka
Posted on August 20, 2010 @ 11:31 pm
All I can say about Aquaman, from his limited appearances is: The Lad looks like class.
He seems to glide all over the park, and he is quick for a tall lad. He is just a silky player.
I couldnt give a fuck about his defensive dutiess, those he can develop and will if forced to do so.
Against Arse we played players who were great defensively but had not idea going forward (Ngog was the only all out attacking player.)
Look at the Arse and Chelski. They field a good portion of 3-4 players who are average at defending but can split defences apart. The main reason they can get away from it is teams chose not to attack as much because they know they will be twatted if they push too much. Where as with us teams are happy to just pound us and then get back into their defensive positions because we take 3 hours to build up our attacking moves and dont have those 2 players who break the lines and get players in behind the defense.
Just my 2c
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 #245 |
Aitch
Posted on August 21, 2010 @ 12:01 am
Okay LB, I got the math slightly wrong…
… but by your math, we still owe 4.25 mill…
… conveniently what we bought Poulsen for from Juve… which is where we are loaning him??
(Hmmmm????)
Loan deals are not always about “just pay the player’s wages and we’ll call it even” …sometimes there are under the table fees invovled!
If this does turn out to be a Hodgson judgement of Aqua’s ability, I’ll eat my hat!
I could be wrong, but in my opinion, Hodgson is reading off the sheet handed to him.
Purslow is making these decisions and they are financial.
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 #246 |
gazmaninaus
Posted on August 21, 2010 @ 12:55 am
Lads let it go Aqualani’s gone, the deal apparently is year long loan with option to buy at 17 million pounds, money back to square I guess. Good luck Alberto, I though he was a genuinely nice lad, not suited to the Prem. Before anyone jumps down my throat, it appears Roy is trying to get the best price for a player who he doesn’t rate and Rafa never used. He became the 60 minute substitute in non event games. I thought he looked class but I’m not a manager.
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 #247 |
Reds in Aus
Posted on August 21, 2010 @ 12:58 am
Aquaman is shorter than me about 5 foot 8 i reckon. I still rate him but he’s far from being a ‘tall guy’
anyhow looks like the chinese takeover is off. was neer really on by the looks of things. Of course those cunts have more power than we are giving them credit for.
looks like we’ll lose torres in Jan, masch anytime soon, get some fucking drop kick sweed the day after…
wish I could be more positive but this is about as bad as LFC gets.
If anyone can convince me otherwise please do!
I dont think we are far from some psycho liverpool fan paying hicks or purslow a ‘visit’ – they are fucking up our pride and joy.
if hodgson is reading off a sheet given to him then what a pathetic fuck. I could do that. so could any of us.
if we dont get stable ownership we’ll be the next leeds…
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 #248 |
akka
Posted on August 21, 2010 @ 1:37 am
Red in aus, aqualani is actually 6’1″. Descent heigh don’t ya reckon?
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 #249 |
Aitch
Posted on August 21, 2010 @ 2:28 am
Gaz, he hasn’t gone anywhere yet, it hasn’t been announced by the official site.
Roy Hodgson has revealed Alberto Aquilani could be set to go out on loan back to Italy.
“At the moment we are considering possibly loaning him to an Italian club, but nothing is sure about that yet so I don’t have anything to report,” said Hodgson.
Could be… considering possibly… nothing sure…
Hardly the words of a done deal we need to “get over”
Maybe a coordinated email campaign… to all the usual suspects… and all the official LFC.tv email addresses… in protest of the move????
… maybe make them think twice!
Unless the lad himself wants this, anyone who thinks this is a good move needs their fuckin head examined!
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 #250 |
gazmaninaus
Posted on August 21, 2010 @ 4:57 am
Aitch for the purpose of sanity, I’ll agree with you, nothing is set in concrete. Yet. However when your manager claims on TV that you didn’t play because we’re trying to arrange a loan deal, then I think your good as gone.
.
I hope he stays but I’m not holding my breath. I think the has largely come about because we can’t actually off-load Mash. All the shite he went on with and now no-one wants him. He has caused a major re-think.
.
And to your last line, I agree.
.
Lastly name me the last person to go out on loan then come back as a first team player.
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 #251 |
Rafalution
Posted on August 21, 2010 @ 6:40 am
Fucking depressed.
I tell you, if it carries on like this, Nando will defo be gone in January. Why can’t someone (manager, maybe?) come out & tell us why Aqua has to go? Unless, of course, Roy really, really doesn’t want him. But judging by comments from fans on numerous sites, 90% think it’s a disaster.
And I wake up this am & hear Huang has pulled out….thanks for your timing Kenny, you just fucked up my weekend.
There defo is some sneaky shit going on at the club, and I’m positive it originates from Purslow.
Oh well, at least I have the rugby at Soccer City to look forward to.
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 #252 |
somnath07in
Posted on August 21, 2010 @ 7:24 am
Agree with above.
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 #253 |
somnath07in
Posted on August 21, 2010 @ 8:17 am
By d way.. i loved Ryan Babel’s finish. Super touch.
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 #254 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 21, 2010 @ 8:48 am
Sorry Aitch, I can’t let Hodgson off with this Aquilani situation. We’ve £4.25m left to pay for Aqua and we’ve just paid a similar amount for Poulsen. Now its just been reported that Inter will not be making an offer for Mascherano.
I just don’t see how the above can be a financial decision. How does the club benefit? Especially when Roma get 5% of the transfer fee if we sell Aquilani.
It looks to me that this is a football decision from Roy. If we were that hard up for cash we’d be whoring Masch out to all and sundry to get £20m+ not shoving Aquilani out the door to save 4 million quid.
Roy clearly prefers grafters and tacklers in his midfield.
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 #255 |
sachem
Posted on August 21, 2010 @ 9:37 am
I think it’s most likely true that those who constantly accused Rafa of using “negative” tactics will find it increasingly hard over the course of the season to claim Roy’s tactics are any more positive. But I’m sure the pundits will find a way or simply turn the attention to something else.
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 #256 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 21, 2010 @ 10:51 am
Sort of kills a few birds with one stone this…
Gaz, 250: Well, he’s not quite in the first team just yet, but Spearing went out to Leicester and came back.
He also came back to a glowing reception from Roy.
Which sort of backs up LB’s opinion that Roy prefers grafters and tacklers.
I done a bit of digging round on this. I never found out much, but…
The new Quack has reported Aquilani as 100% fit and ready to go.
He was out because of a virus, which give him the shits.
It’s passed.
He’s ready, and I’m summising raring to go.
But there’s the thing, I’m only summising.
I have to give Roy the benefit of the doubt.
I defended Rafa, I will defend Hodgson.
But, I will not defend him to the same degree.
Hypocritical… well, I’m sure there’s a couple in here who’d love to say it, but it’s not.
There’s a difference…
Rafa had a vision, a master plan.
He wanted to spend his career here and take us back to past glories.
Roy? Well, in all kidness, he’s exactly what he’s made out to be… a solid old pro, who will hopefully keep us afloat in these times.
I’m starting to fear even that’s beyond him though.
Just listened to Tony Evans on Talk Shite.
It wasn’t pretty listening.
Tony loves the club. He’s one of us. You can hear the emotion in his voice whenever we become the subject.
He sounds close to tears.
What a fuckin mess.
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 #257 |
Lurgankop
Posted on August 21, 2010 @ 11:15 am
What was TE saying FS. Is this really the end of the Huang bid?
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 #258 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 21, 2010 @ 11:24 am
PS, just to finish that comment off…
That team we seen on Thursday night could very easily become the team we will see week in week out.
Panic mongering…
Don’t dare be so insulting. It’s exactly what I’ve been trying to warn about for the last 3 and a half years.
And I know for a fact that Torres only agreed to stay because he was led to believe massive new investment would be coming in now – not in the future.
They are all tired of being sold that line of shit.
Which means, Torres could be gone as early as January.
Will Gerrard stay… don’t really know.
But I’d be willing to guess if some decent offer came in, the club would accept it. And if it was from a team that gave Gerrard the chance of a few glories before retiring – say like, Real Madrid – then I think he’d be up to the one last challenge and who could blame him.
Then you have to ask what would Pepe do if he seen all the top lads jumping from the sinking ship?
Mascherano, well we all know he’s off soon as he gets a decent offer.
And that would be that…
Joe Cole, Liverpool FC’s star and hope. And who’s to say he’d stay under them circumstances.
I honestly hate to say all that, but it’s truth. It’s not panic mongering. It’s the big picture some of us were desperately trying to get across when people were moaning about abysmal performances at the likes of Wolves and insisting it was all Rafa’s fault and he had to go because of them.
Take a pop at that all you like. I honestly don’t care. I stand by it. I stand by it because it’s true.
A defeat on Monday and Thursday, and we are already in deep trouble. And it won’t be long until the days of hanging in there until Christmas will be considered the good old days.
|
 #259 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 21, 2010 @ 11:25 am
Yep. Lurgan. He’s walked.
The one and only real game in town has closed shop and all we can hope now is that the RBS and Barcap don’t extend the loans.
I’ve tried to contact me RBS man on that. I’ll let you know what I get told as soon as he gets back to me.
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 #260 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 21, 2010 @ 1:19 pm
Aquilani gone.
|
 #261 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 21, 2010 @ 2:26 pm
Doesn’t say much for the magical arm around the shoulder man management does it?
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 #262 |
Reds in Aus
Posted on August 21, 2010 @ 3:13 pm
FS – not taking a pop at all unfortunately I can see that happening as well. It seems like it will all boil down to the banks and whether we can finally rid ourselves of those pricks in October…
Akka – don’t know where they get aquamans height from – not that it particularly matters – but I’ve met him a few times and he is shorter than me and wears those huge thick trainers and I am about 5 foot 10… so wikipaedia et al are wrong.
none the less I rate him and wish Roy was such a limp dick/moron, to send him out on loan
|
 #263 |
Arthur G. Posis
Posted on August 21, 2010 @ 4:11 pm
Aquilani being loaned out is surprising but hardly the end of the world. It seemed to me Rafa didnt rate him even when he was fit and perhaps Roy is just following this out to it’s logical conclusion?
Time will tell of course
what is far more depressing is the fact that CIC bid seems to have gone – now where do we go? Administration?
|
 #264 |
sachem
Posted on August 21, 2010 @ 4:46 pm
http://www.football-italia.net/aug21e.html
OK, I now have to say this about Aquilani: The guy is a gifted football player, no doubt about that. But if it is true he has said the things quoted in the article linked above, I have absolutely no respect for the man and to be perfectly honest glad to be rid of the treacherous bastard.
For as long as I can remember I’ve been a Liverpool supporter, but for about ten years I’ve also been a supporter of Roma. The rivalry between Roma and Juventus runs so deep, to compare it with the Liverpool/Man Utd rivalry is barely adequate. There’s a severe hostility between the two clubs that is mostly based on the fact that southern Italian football clubs have gotten fucked over by nothern ones for many, many years and Juventus have always been the main culprit.
Juventus supporters will see it differently of course, there’s always two sides of a coin, but Aquilani, who was brought up in Rome with Roman ideals knows what the rivalry is all about. Frankly I’m disgusted he has decided to play for Juventus and even more so by those comments. He will never be allowed to return to Roma and I honestly hope he won’t return to Liverpool either. I just couldn’t stand the sight of him in a team I’m supporting any more. For me, this move has changed everything. It would be worse even than having the tramp as our manager.
Now, I think it’s time to calm down and drown my anger in copious amounts of beer.
|
 #265 |
Reds in Aus
Posted on August 21, 2010 @ 5:03 pm
sachem – hopefully you’re already indulging in a few beverages. I don’t think Aqua sounds too bad. He just said he is happy. Juve is as much of a rival as tottenham are for us in that they compete but certainly not sworn rivals like the mancs or everton…
Anyway looks like we have to get over Aqua and also the fact that the club is not far from administration. As FS says though I’d prefer us to go into admin if it means us getting decent owners who have cash. If not we will lose most of our top players and not be able to replace them…
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 #266 |
rome77
Posted on August 21, 2010 @ 5:04 pm
Sachem All i read was basically a standard quote for any player signing for a new club.
Roma are in deep shit financially so they couldnt take him back and its not like he’s going to Lazio
who are Roma’s real rivals.
|
 #267 |
Aitch
Posted on August 21, 2010 @ 5:45 pm
Danny Agger just gave an interview where he was quoted as saying “…and you think it stinks in our joint, you should walk around Anfield!”
(get it… coz he’s from Denmark… and there’s something wrotten in the state of….)
thank you, thank you… I’ll be here all week!
Of course I just made that up, Danny said nothing of the sort…
… but surely the players must be thinking it?
This whole summer stinks to high heaven…
…and Something is very, very wrotten.
The Insua nonsense… the Masch saga…
…Purslow “making all the decisions” according to Roy…
…then Roy being the one who decides if a player stays or goes, comes or doesn’t…
… a bloke who owns a corner pizza shop bidding to own LFC…
…Huang being the only serious bidder… then fucking off…
10 days left in the transfer window…. tick, tock….
6 weeks to “Repo-Man 3: Scouser Tommy’s Revenge” … tick, tock…
How’s the feel good factor now, eh?
|
 #268 |
Aitch
Posted on August 21, 2010 @ 6:11 pm
LB, I get where you’re coming from (#254) I just doubt the Aquilani thing is about what Roy said it was about. I just don’t see how that makes sense.
He’s one of the few senior players Roy has had to work with since the beginning of pre-season training and he was praising the fuck out of him in Switzerland.
I’m not intending to “let Roy off the hook”…
… I just don’t think, from what’s been said since his first day, that he was ever really on it.
Roy is not in charge of LFC in the way that Rafa was, or for that matter Ged, or Evans before him. It is a completely different dynamic now.
I think Roy jumped at the chance to manage Liverpool, and you can hardly blame him, but from what I can see as an outside observer, I just think he’s taken the gig under heavy restriction.
Also, doesn’t anyone remember that Aqua was rumored with a move to Juve just before the World Cup started?
Coincidence?
Maybe the whole Poulsen for Aqua swap was negotiated behind closed doors (and I’ll grant you, I’m not sure how you accomplish that in this day and age) and we got Poulsen first before sending Aqua the other way, so as to soften any negative reaction.
I admit that’s just speculation on my part…
…but seriously…
…nothing to do with LFC over the last 18 months, has been cut-n-dry, or we find out later, actually transpired in a manner we were initially led to believe.
There has consistently been more to every move than met the eye initially, so I simply cannot accept that there isn’t more to this than meets the eye.
You can call that conspiracy theory all you want, but its pretty true.
Even if Roy does prefer yard dogs… I just don’t get that he’s shopping Aqua for on-field reasons (you know… if he were the one making such decisions which he has already stated he wasn’t!)
All this bollocks about him needing to play every week doesn’t wash either.
We will play 38 prem games.
We are in the Europa League.
We’ll have the Carling Cup and the FA Cup…
…don’t tell me you can’t give him 1 game per week.
We made 7 changes from Sunday to Thursday…
We’ll see 7 for this Monday’s game…
…and no doubt similar for next Thursday… (a long trip it might be added… and therefore)
… another mass change for the subsequent Prem game…
To quote a Texan phrase… “That dog just don’t hunt!”
It’s complete and utter bollocks…
…and we shouldn’t be buying it hook, line and sinker any more…
…not when we’ve been gaffed and hauled into a sinking boat so many times in the past!
|
 #269 |
rome77
Posted on August 21, 2010 @ 7:03 pm
SSN reader pissing himself laughing reading out how the second highest record signing at Liverpool is going out on loan.
Kind of sums up why hes really going just another stick to beat Rafa with.
Arthur
13 starts 6 assists 2 goals when not fully fit.
He played & scored in the biggest game of the season against Athletico, and had a great game. so why do you think Rafa didnt rate him ?
Chavs 6pts 12 goals but for some reason i dont think its important to us.
|
 #270 |
Lurgankop
Posted on August 21, 2010 @ 7:58 pm
What a complete fucking joke of a club we have become. Gutted, again!
|
 #271 |
pshenava
Posted on August 21, 2010 @ 8:21 pm
Arthur,
What is the end of the world? I will tell you nothing is really. There is always someone else to replace however when you downgrade you get what you deserve. They will only shoot above themselves for so long and the gulf in class will soon make up.
Look at our neighbours they huff and puff each year to only make the Europa spots and which they couldn’t last year and no guarantee they will this year. Oh….I forgot what is our guarantee.
|
 #272 |
dougle
Posted on August 21, 2010 @ 10:17 pm
Just watched Rafa pick up the first trophy of his time at Inter Melon. They beat Roma 3-1 in the italian supercup (?). Funily enough it was our old buddy JARiise who opened the scoring for Roma with a beauty altho’ he nearly twisted himself in two trying to poke it in wth his left foot.
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 #273 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 21, 2010 @ 10:19 pm
It’s a shame that Aquilani is going.
I’d love to make a post on pure footballing reasons why it’s a very bad decision.
I probably will at some time.
But we have to look at the big picture. It’s far more important than the fate of one player.
And, in the big picture, it’s just another reason to believe what we already know…
We no longer have a football club that exists to compete as best it can.
In fact, we no longer have a football club.
What we have is a sham, a masquerade being run by wankers and bankers. And the only thing you mean to them is how much money they can exthort from you under false pretences.
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 #275 |
Dizzy
Posted on August 21, 2010 @ 11:20 pm
There is some serious shit going on behind the doors … Testing times indeed for LFC and its fans!!
|
 #276 |
gazmaninaus
Posted on August 21, 2010 @ 11:44 pm
We can talk all we want about Aqualani but most of us only really want him as a fill in squad player. I haven’t really heard anyone say he should start week in week out, even Roy said that. Aqualani was an expensive injured flop really and the only way we can attempt to re-coup some of the ridiculous money spent on him is by sending him out on loan.
.
If our thoughts on him are he must stay to swell the ranks of the bench, covering injuires etc, then we should stop complaining when young players don’t get a look in.
.
We’ve all been calling for Pacheco, Shelvey etc but where are they going to get a run if we have 20 million somethings sitting on their arse, getting splinter.
.
He is a luxury player in a time of thrift. Good luck Aqualani on your day you looked wonderful, however those days were few and far between. I believe he was the beginning of the end for Rafa, sad but thats how I feel.
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 #277 |
rome77
Posted on August 21, 2010 @ 11:51 pm
So Boughtman who more than likely was tapping up our players on behalf of HIS team,has apparantly f*cked us over.
Now there’s a shock i can only think of 2.5 million reasons a week why he’d do that.
Meanwhile back in the footballing world Inter have just won their first trophy of the season and Inter fans want Kuyt & Masch.
YNWA
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 #278 |
rome77
Posted on August 22, 2010 @ 12:26 am
Gaz for a start i dont think he was a flop, he came here for 5 years and as comical as it sounds now, we do need 20 mill players on the bench if we’re to win no 19 and i’m sure Lucas would have been on the bench a lot more.
Your talking about “ridiculous money” 80mill ladyboy 55mill Kaka 32.5mill Berbaflop and you say 17.5 mill rising to 20mill (if we win everything under the sun and he plays every game) is “ridiculous” ! get a grip.
“beginning of the end” i thought that was rotation or was it zonal marking no hang on it was Lucas, i mean Kuyt no hang on it was wasting 250 mill, no actually your right it was Aquillani.
I dont know why some people think it was G&H buying our club and systematically raping it.
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 #279 |
Aitch
Posted on August 22, 2010 @ 12:34 am
So if I’m reading that right… (274)
The Club wanted Huang to do all the groundwork, negotiating all the ins and outs of a deal…
… but provide for an 11th hour” window within which some ‘nobhead could sweep in and hijack the deal.
That has a strangely familiar sound to it.
Where, oh where, have I heard of such a deal before?
I can’t quite put my finger on it…
… but I’m almost sure I’ve heard this song before??
Was it the Citeh deal? …. NO
Was it perhaps the Chav deal?? …Nope.
Was it perhaps when DIC had a deal done, dusted and agreed to…
… only for John Wayne and his trusty midget sidekick to ride into town …
…AT THE ELEVENTH HOUR…
…to hijack the deal …
(without due diligence… or… rather ironically… the very proof of funds they are requiring of Huang?)
oh and Gaz, not to pick a fight, but speak for yourself when you make a statement like “most of us only really want him as a fill in squad player”
I’d start the lad in the hole every week if he’s as fit as was being reported in pre-season. Hodgson couldn’t praise him and Lucas enough.
Now all the “faves” are back, he’s got no time for him??? What the fuck is that about?
If you think Pacheco or Shelvey are ready to deliver the sort of football Aqualani is capable of, I don’t think you’ve been watching any of them.
You think Aqualani is “a luxury player in a time of thrift”…
… yet you think we have the luxury of fielding the uber-inexperienced Pacheco or Shelvey?
I’m sorry, but… WOW, really?
|
 #280 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 22, 2010 @ 12:56 am
Aitch, wow indeed.
Gaz, I think your missing the point here. Most of us are pissed off because we see Aquilani as a talented footballer who should indeed be playing in out first team. Now if you think the likes of Spearing, Shelvey and Pacheco have more to offer I’d like to know what you are smoking.
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 #281 |
rome77
Posted on August 22, 2010 @ 1:08 am
I’d recommend a nice “white widow”, it’s calming me down ¦ )
|
 #282 |
Aitch
Posted on August 22, 2010 @ 2:05 am
Well unfortunately, as gaz said in #246 …
“Lads let it go Aqualani’s gone”
They’ve now announced a done deal on the official site.
But the smell is getting stronger!
|
 #283 |
gazmaninaus
Posted on August 22, 2010 @ 4:42 am
Aitch and Rome,yes it’s nice to have a 20 millions someone sitting on the bench, but we don’t have 10 let alone 20.
.
Now to the who would he displace in our first team, would it be Gerrard, Mash or Cole, genuine question which one, on a regular basis or is it to cover injuries.
.
Many on here critised Rafa for not playing youth now I’m smoking dope for suggesting that might be a reason Aqualani is gone. Lots of having it both ways.
.
Go back through this bunch of posts and see how many people wrote it would be good to have Aqualani as cover for 1. 2.3 players, not many ever put Aqualani down as number 1 midfielder with others to squad around him.
.
Anyway, I’m not here to pick fights just debate, and personally I think Shelvey has a huge future but not if we keep palming him off to lesser teams.
|
 #284 |
knight
Posted on August 22, 2010 @ 5:11 am
Fact. Aqualani’s gone. We can’t do fuck all to bring him back this season now. Let’s not lament too much and just look forward to the guys we have. Jova is not bad going forward and has had good run outs. Poulson is a mean tackler, quite good going forward and can be a good replacement for Masch. Babel could play in more games as he showed he can score, even though he was not exactly exciting in dribbling past players or able to give the opposition trouble as Torres did.
Now on the the Man Shitty game. Gotta have two holding midfielders to stop their attacking. As Masch is still injured and unlikely to be featured, I will play Poulson paired with Lucas and Babel ahead of Jova.
My new thinking:
———–Reina—————
Johnson, Carra, Skrtel, Aurelio
———Lucas ,Poulson——–
—-Kuyt, Gerrard, Babel——-
———–Torres————–
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 #287 |
Rafalution
Posted on August 22, 2010 @ 5:34 am
Knight: Lucas? Don’t you know Lucas is shit?
If Roy keeps on picking Lucas, keeps on using zonal marking, deploys Nando as a lone striker – surely he must be off his rocker?
|
 #289 |
gazmaninaus
Posted on August 22, 2010 @ 7:07 am
I just think this Man City game is one we must win, we need to be taking points off teams who want a top 4 spot. Then we need to beat the likes of West Brom next week. I think City are going to be hard to beat later in the year, once their new stars start to get to know each other. So for me we really need the points from this one.
.
Ps Blackpool hammered by a team we nearly beat with 10 men, shows their not as shit as we first thought. We can beat anyone this season, we just need the passion.
|
 #290 |
KeithSA
Posted on August 22, 2010 @ 8:56 am
I am back from my self imposed sabbatical, popped in from time to time to check the comments and see that not much has changed, people with the finger on the real pulse and people still deluding themselves that some how it only about football.
To tell you the truth after they managed to remove Rafa for all the wrong reasons I became really depressed and thought that until the parasites have been removed what’s the point in trying to have a serous debate when all they care about is raping the club that I love. When I talk about parasites I know included Purslow and Boughtman because they have only their self interests at heart and not the club.
Yes The Hodge is a nice man and yes he is a decent coach but it is a massive step in the wrong direction if we want get back up on the perch. The only saving grace is that he has inherited a squad that finished second and that could have won if we did not have all the horrific injuries (11 out of a squad of 23 in any mans language is debilitating) so do all the CBC’s of this world and the rest of the idiots who called for Rafa’s head expect him to win the Prem know that the only problem stopping us, Rafa, has been removed? It will be interesting to see how we fair this season. It seems getting into the top four will earn Woy the nod of approval yet Rafa has to win the Prem funny how things work out. From Woys tactics, team selections and subs I am not filled with confidence.
All the additions including Cole are still part of Rafa’s strategy going forward and the first serious indication of how Woy thinks is Poulson and that leaves a lot to be desired and does not fill me with a sense of well being for the future. We ship off Aquaman (he could have been immense for us this season) and ship in Poulson and even if it was not down to Woy show some balls and say it was not your decision. Saying that if we have a relatively injury free year I can see us having a decent run and doing OK. Woy is no idiot and will steer the ship safely enough but he will be tactically out maneuvered against the better managers (I don’t include Fungus among them) so I think it is fortunate that we are in the lesser of the two European cups as Woy should do OK there. He is a mid to top half team manager and that is where we will finish.
Cole if he stays fit is a better prospect than Benny, who is going to sit more on the Chelsea bench than he ever did on the Liverpool bench and I agree with LB (fuck it is happening on a constant basis, I miss the times where we fought about Rafa’s tactics and team selection) Cole is not a second striker and should be played out wide. Again for all you people who think we will play Champaign football I see another Ged Eye, sit back, defend and counter attack.
We need a total clear out of all top management (except Ayre), Woy is just not good enough so he needs to go, before we can have a decent debate. I am starting to think like FS, going into administration might be the only way we will come right. Very, very depressed.
On the bright side Rafa has picked up a trophy something Woy did not do at Inter, food for thought for the get rid of Rafa idiots.
|
 #291 |
knight
Posted on August 22, 2010 @ 9:22 am
Rafalution,
|
 #292 |
guinnessdrinker
Posted on August 22, 2010 @ 10:08 am
Keith give the “Woy” shit a rest mate.
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 #293 |
gazmaninaus
Posted on August 22, 2010 @ 10:36 am
Keith, you’ve been around this blog long enough to know why people are hoping for 4th, because we finished 7th. We may have been 2nd the season before but thats history.
.
People will cut Roy some slack as its his first year, whereas with Rafa it was 5 years on and second the previous year.
.
At the very least lets give Roy a go, FFS he didn’t sack Rafa, he didn’t put the club in debt, he doesn’t own Kop Holdings, he’s not holding up a club sale, but he is trying to do his best at a difficult time.
.
Lets get behind him regardless.
|
 #294 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 22, 2010 @ 1:12 pm
Gaz, if you think Pacheco and Shelvey will get significant game time as a result of Aquilani leaving your in for disappointment. I’m not quite sure how you’ve come up with the notion that fans would rather see youth get a chance than see a €20m player on the bench.
I think most of us who have any sense realise that in order to be competitive and the biggest competitions requires a deep squad of top talent. 25 players of top quality.
Aquilani was one of the few midfield players we have that can play in midfield or behind the striker and actually unlock defences and help the team play better football. The guy should be in our first team either in midfield or behind the striker in my opinion. Its not like we have a midfield full of top talent. I think it’s limited which is why we struggle to play good football and create many chances. Mascherano, Lucas and Poulson. Good luck breaking down sides with those 3. Gerrard in midfield with Cole behind the striker. Right, we’ll see how successful this will become. I’ll not comment on it again until the end of October. We’ll see how many games we’ve won and how many goals we’ve scored and continue the debate.
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 #295 |
rome77
Posted on August 22, 2010 @ 1:15 pm
Gaz
Why havent you mentioned Lucas as to who Aquilani would replace ? You mention Cole and Gerrard who have missed a lot of games through injury in previous seasons.And just out of interest who would you drop for poulsen ? And if its to give the kids a game won’t poulsen be blocking their chances aswell or do you think he’s not that good,in which case shouldnt we have kept Aqillani.
But in fairness to Roy we should cut him some slack he’s working under the same conditions as Rafa was.
Only difference is he’s done fuck all for us yet.
well apart from swap Aquillani for poulsen.
PS I forgot that old chesnut “Rafa didnt give the kids a chance” another stick used by “supporters” of the media witchhunt.
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 #296 |
gazmaninaus
Posted on August 22, 2010 @ 1:21 pm
LB I think you have taken my comment the wrong way but I’ll still ask you which of the three I mentioned would you drop week in week out for Aqualani.
.
I agree it would be wonderful to have a 20 million someone on the bench but right now this club can’t afford that luxury. Hence like all assets he’s most likely being sold or protected in value.
.
I’m actually gutted he’s going but I’m not the manager or the medical staff so my thoughts are just shite.
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 #297 |
gazmaninaus
Posted on August 22, 2010 @ 1:29 pm
Rome I used three, didn’t even bother going to five midfielders, Lucas got more games than Aqualani even when he was fit, that was Rafa’s choice not mine.
.
I don’t see what all the arguments about, Roy obviously made or was told to make the decision in which case, once again I think its salvaging some money from an asset.
.
As far as the kids go whats wrong with wanting to see them come through, are you against the idea Rome.
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 #298 |
guinnessdrinker
Posted on August 22, 2010 @ 1:32 pm
the lad missed at least two matches since he’s been here because of an “upset tummy” any pro who cant play through that isnt worth 20 pound let alone 20 million if he has a great season at juve bring him back or get the money back we’ve spent on him. other wise we have the new harry kewell on our hands here, alot like smicer too bags of technical ability but struggling in the premier league.
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 #299 |
KeithSA
Posted on August 22, 2010 @ 1:46 pm
We finished 7th because out of a squad of 25 we had 11 injuries at any given time and had to use kids to make up the 25 in the first place because we did not have a pot to piss in, did people give Rafa any slack? He overhauled an entire squad by spending an average of less than 15 Mill per year. During those 5 years we won a European cup, Super Cup, FA cup, reached another European Cup final and a semi final, finished consistently in the top four with a second and third place finish. Roy (if you prefer), has inherited the same squad, minus Alonso, so why should 4th be good enough if we are going to use the same criteria we judged Rafa by?
I don’t like his style of play, judging from his other appointments; he has coached more teams than we have had managers. Letting Aquaman go is a blatant statement of intent and huge mistake, as was using our third sub against Arsenal when we still had 20 minutes to play and being caught cold with an injury to Agger.
Buying Poulson, who cannot make the Juve side to replace Masch or Aquaman is more telling then people want to admit. Playing Cole in behind the striker, when at 29, no other quality managers that has managed Cole, has played him at the expense of Gerrard or Aquaman is another judgment call that could come back to haunt him.
It is very rich to say give Roy a chance, which I will because he is a decent man, but what chance was Rafa given? However his start has not filled me with much confidence. The buyout fiasco has made it even worse. I am of the opinion that the only way we will get rid of these parasites at the top, all of them, is if we go into administration and that might be are only and best chance of success.
So yes I will give Roy a chance but I do not holdout much hope that he is anything more than a caretaker manager until we get decent owners so we can bring in a Manager of the same caliber as the one we have just got rid of.
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 #300 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 22, 2010 @ 1:59 pm
Gaz, I’ve already said what my line up would be. This is it:
Reina
Johnson Carra Agger Aurellio
Mascherano Gerrard
Kuyt Aquilani Cole
Torres
Alternatively
Reina
Johnson Carra Agger Aurellio
Mascherano Aquilani
Kuyt Gerrard Cole
Torres
So answering your question Aquilani would be ahead of Poulson and Lucas if I were playing him in midfield and I would have him ahead of Joe Cole if I were playing him behind the striker.
Joe Cole cannot play behind the striker. He is better out wide coming off either the right or left wing. That is what he has done throughout his career for club and country for a number of managers. Why now at the age of 29 am I supposed to accept that he is our number one player in the hole behind the striker?
Why should I accept that we’ve signed a 31 year old tough tackling midfield player to replace a 26 year old with creative talent?
I’m supposed to get over the fact that we’ve kept the likes of Spearing and Lucas, signed Shelvey and Poulsen and told Aquilani his surplus to requirements?
Roy is either a gutless manager who allows one of his better players to leave without making a fuss or he has a Sam Allardyce philosophy on how football is played. I can’t respect or give backing to that.
I’m not happy with the constant downgrading of our squad, its a fucking disgrace. The club at the moment is a fraud, the board and the management.
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 #301 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 22, 2010 @ 2:01 pm
Gaz, upset tummy my arse. Roy himself said he didn’t play on Thursday because he is on the verge of going out on loan.
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 #302 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 22, 2010 @ 2:11 pm
Gaz mate, this club couldn’t afford to sack Rafa.
This club couldn’t afford to sack Rafa when Juve was prepared to buy his contract out.
This club couldn’t afford to lost the at least 12 million that that bit of business cost.
This club couldn’t afford to pay Fulham 2 million for Roy.
This club couldn’t afford to pay Joe Cole’s huge Bosman contract.
This club couldn’t afford to buy Poulsen for 4.5 mill.
This club couldn’t afford to let Aquilani go.
This club couldn’t afford his wages on the bill.
But this club is paying his wages in the form of the 4.5 mill they paid for Poulsen.
This club couldn’t afford to risk a very valuble asset by letting him go out to a club who won’t give a fuck about his health and fitness, but will run him into the ground if they need to.
But in this one simple move, they have done all of the above, and you want to know why…
This club is no longer an actual football club.
It’s what I said earlier…
A sham, ran by wankers and bankers for their own ends, and the only thing you, me, or any other supporter counts for is how much money they can squeeze out of us.
|
 #303 |
KeithSA
Posted on August 22, 2010 @ 2:12 pm
If as people want to try and make out, Roy has no control of who comes and who goes, seeing that Nemeth has also been sold, is this the type of manager we need? A manager who is only to glad to get the job he will allow Purslow to buy and sell any player he thinks should come and go. What next will the excuse be Purslow is picking the team? THick’s famous comment that he should get on with coaching the players has really come back to haunt us, because that is exactly what we have got, thanks to a media witch hunt and our gullible supporters that allowed it to happen.
But let’s not forget we now have an almighty feel good factor, well let’s see if it wins us the Prem. I would like to see how much money the CBC’s of this world are putting on us to do just that. Rafa the rotator, defensive minded, negative tactic, zonal marking, bad team selection manager was the only reason we did not win it already. So yes 4th is defiantly not good enough.
We need a manager that will tell us what the, lying, cheating, thieving bastards at the top are doing. Threaten to resign with immediate effect before the club is dismantled any further without his say so. Tell the fans what is going on, oh yes we got rids of that one.
Now we have somebody who is so happy to be here he will go along with anything that top management wants, just so long as he can live his dream. Wake up call and reality check, we have got Roy because all the other decent managers worth their salt rejected the opportunity to come to the fiasco that is called Liverpool FC.
How long will Torres and co stay if this continues?
|
 #304 |
rome77
Posted on August 22, 2010 @ 2:14 pm
Gaz The thing with the money side of things is we spent more money on Poulsen than the instalment for Aquillani which we still have to pay.
Any money we get for a sale wont come in till next season (when hopefully the shower of shit currently running this club are gone)
Do i have a problem with kids coming through ?
Not at all if their good enough or we’re winning 3-0 or even if we have a bad season for injuries like last season.
When funnily enough we relied on the kids too much hence the dropped points and ultimately no top 4 and no CL. Which i’m acctually thinking was a good thing in regards to the ownership problem.
|
 #305 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 22, 2010 @ 2:16 pm
Sorry, I got a phone call and hit post before I’d finished that comment.
I also wanted to include Roy’s statement…
“It’s being done to keep the player’s value up.”
Seems to make everything else irrelevant to me, and proves me point.
It’s not about how highly you rate Aquilani.
It’s just another proof of what we all know…
LFC is no longer a football club striving to do it’s very best and aquire the best talent it can.
Mind you…
“On field success not being essential to suceed.”
“Brand loyalty.”
Tom told us that 3.5 years ago, and if we’d have heeded them words instead of arguing tactics, etc, we might still have a football club left to argue about.
|
 #306 |
KeithSA
Posted on August 22, 2010 @ 2:19 pm
You are right FS we are a brand just to serve the cunts at the top and as long as they can line their pockets a mid table finish with hopefully a Europa league spot will do just fine.
“Brand loyalty Ubber alles.”
|
 #307 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 22, 2010 @ 2:23 pm
I’ve been saying Shelvey will be a monster.
I think he’ll become our next Gerrard.
I think the boy’s special.
But he is a boy.
A very big boy, granted,
But, at 18 years of age, still a boy.
He has to be used sparingly and sensibly.
Otherwise we could burn him out.
Spearing… forget it.
He found his level at Leicester.
Joe and Stevie are injury prone.
Masher is gone if a decent offer comes in.
Same with Kuyt by the look of things.
But we couldn’t find room for a talented player
Like Aquilani…
Point getting missed here, boys.
We are not a football club anymore as we understand it.
|
 #308 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 22, 2010 @ 2:26 pm
Yes, Keith.
And some of us did see it coming
and tried to warn against it.
But the time for I told you so’s has gone.
The I told you so’s are here now.
Oh well, I’m off.
Had enough of this for one day.
This morning, I’ve already been defending Roy
against someone who last season called for
Rafa’s head and wanted Roy to be given
the job.
It’s true…
When the mighty fall
they really crash.
I’m going for a pint.
|
 #309 |
rome77
Posted on August 22, 2010 @ 2:27 pm
28 mins and more sense gets posted in Kopblog than SSN will talk in a lifetime.
|
 #310 |
rome77
Posted on August 22, 2010 @ 2:31 pm
Sorry make that 40 mins
|
 #311 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 22, 2010 @ 4:02 pm
I’m watching the mancs run rings around Fulham and I am very jealous of the type of football being exhibited.
|
 #313 |
rome77
Posted on August 22, 2010 @ 4:48 pm
Sorry but roughly translated it says a deal for a liverpool player whose extreamly close to Snieder
is in a advanced stage after talks in Switzerland.
Now i know Italian clubs like to do business in switzerland as phone taps are illegal and papertrails cant be followed.Its the kind of place the snakes will want to do business.
|
 #314 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 22, 2010 @ 5:41 pm
Well done Fulham – really turned it around despite the refs best efforts!!
|
 #315 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 22, 2010 @ 6:33 pm
Apparently Lucas has put in a transfer request.
Oh well, at least it will be funny
watching all the people who called him
shite and booed him scream.
|
 #316 |
Aitch
Posted on August 22, 2010 @ 6:41 pm
Lads, please all take a deep breath.
Look… Roy is a caretaker manager. He just is.
He was offered the ultimate football job… but offered it in handcuffs.
I don’t blame him for biting their hand off, even under the circumstances.
Hell… most of us… us who despise the current regime with a passion, us who refuse to buy merchandise until they are gone… would pay those evil douchebags… for the chance to do what Roy is doing.
So lets not kill the messenger here.
There are a fair few better managers could have been given the nod…
…but be under no illusion that there are a lot worse.
Would you prefer a shackled Roy, or a shackled Allardyce, Curbishley, Mark Hughes?
I know what my answer is.
Roy Hodgson took the job under very defined, restrictive parameters.
We can bitch all we want about what those restrictions are…
… but don’t blame Roy for them… he just took the job.
And for all his tactical limitations, and operational restrictions… he’s a decent man and a decent manager… sure we could have done better… but we could have done so much worse.
So when we discuss these things, lets do so without blaming Roy for things that are out of his control… things that were not on the table as an option that would be within his control, as part of his job offer.
Rafa finally wretched that control a year ago… and he was judged as though he’d had it for 5 years.
Lets not make the same mistake here.
Direct your venom at the right target!
Now, having said that…
Gaz, I was not among those who were saying we should give the young players a run…
That is primarily said by those who have no understanding of how to develop a player.
Throwing young players in at the deep end is something you do when you have no other option… Like last year with Ngog and Insua.
… or something you do when you have the luxury of a 3-0 first leg lead, or are in a Carling Cup game against some lower league team.
… but even then, preferably alongside seasoned pros who can help them grow.
Ngog was vilified for “not being good enough”…
…and yet those same people wanted Pacheco thrown in at the deep end?
Now we can argue Pacheco’s merits until we’re blue in the face, but I guarantee you one thing that is beyond question…
…if he’d gone 5 games without scoring… the very same people would have judged him “yet another Rafa flop” and “not good enough for Liverpool.”
Youth got a chance last season… not because of some grandiose youth development ideal… but because senior players spent half the season crocked.
Part of the reason… and a fuckin big part of it at that… that they looked out of their depth is simply that they were… but that doesn’t make them shite!
They were kids deployed in a man’s game…
And the senior pros, who should have helped them, all too often didn’t
When McMannaman, Fowler, Owen, Gerrard all made their debuts, they did so in stable teams of experienced professionals.
Our kids were not afforded that luxury last season… coz when the senior players were available, they were playing like robots, allowing for any deficiencies in their games to be immediately exposed.
Ngog looked out of his depth because he was deployed as a single striker, asked to chase hoofers, when he was mostly marked by 3 defenders, and even when he did hold the ball up, no one got forward to support him.
Its quite easy to have a philosophical discussion about whether kids should be given game time…
… but all too often that discussion, is just that… philosophical…
…and does not take into account the actual circumstances and parameters we are talking about deploying them in.
Several people are already clamoring for Babel to be given a run, because he scored 1 goal.
And I’m not discounting it… it was an important goal… and gives us that 1st leg lead…
…But maybe, if we’d played Aqua in the hole in that game (given that Babel … as he often has been… was reportedly shite for 44 minutes prior to scoring) we might have won 3-0??
We won’t know.
Just as the argument goes that we finished 7th because Rafa was too cautious… and would have finished higher had we played with more abandon…
… ignores the possibility that if Rafa hadn’t been cautious (given the injuries and poor form of senior players) and “removed the shackles” we may very well have finished 12th.
… but again… we’ll never know.
(though a lot of points we dropped last year were dropped when we pressed forward and got caught on the break… often late in the game… soooo….)
|
 #317 |
Aitch
Posted on August 22, 2010 @ 6:45 pm
“Apparently Lucas has put in a transfer request”
Hmmm…
AGAIN…this would be the same Lucas that Roy praised just 3 weeks ago as a “hard working professional” and “very nice young man” that he was “looking forward to working with”
…ball…
…bouncing…
…errr… what’s that smell?
… oops…
…where’d it gooooo…..
|
 #318 |
Aitch
Posted on August 22, 2010 @ 7:16 pm
And the hits just keep on coming…
Dirk Kuyt has told a Dutch newspaper that he was “officially informed” by Liverpool of a bid from Inter. Kuyt said, “On Thursday night, during the Europa League game against Trabzonspor, the board of Liverpool informed me officially that they have received a fax from Inter.”
The British media suggest the price-tag is £15m, but the Italian newspapers insist the Nerazzurri are offering just £7m cash plus a player.
It is likely to be either Sulley Ali Muntari or striker Victor Obinna.
OH DEAR…
Now there are a number of immediate issues here.
First…
We were assured by Purslow that Rafa’s departure contained a clause that prevented him from coming in for any LFC players
No big surprise really… it came out of Purslow’s mouth… hence it was not true!
BUT… Second…
Roy just yesterday for fucks sake… made a categorical statement that he had spoken via phone to the Inter president and been assured that they would not bid for any of our players.
AND…
…it would be one thing if Roy had been misled by the Inter prez, but Moratti is quoted as saying this…
Moratti was also told of Liverpool manager Roy Hodgson’s claim that he had personally spoken to Moratti, receiving an assurance Inter would not sign any of his players. “Everyone can say what they want.”
That’s a bit disturbing…
Now I know not everyone recognizes the contribution a player like Dirk Kuyt makes to the team… it’s been discussed a lot….
But really… replacing him with Sulley Muntari or Obinna???
I’m sorry but anyone who thinks that is “good business by Roy”…
A) needs their head examined
and
B) needs to never, ever, ever, EVER again question any Rafa transfer!
|
 #319 |
rafamuffin
Posted on August 22, 2010 @ 9:01 pm
Imho i think playing in the hole behind the main
striker will be the making of Joe cole why is he being condemned before he is given a chance to grow into the role.I think Joe was forced to play out wide just to fit in at Chelsea.But i think playing between Gerrard and Torres and with good support on the wings from Jovanovich on the left and hopefully Babel on the right with Poulsen sitting deep will give us our best hope of any success this season.Also with Agger at the back hopefully our distribution will improve.no more hoof and hope please.Carragher always complained that he was not given a fair crack with England but the thing that set him apart from the other candidates was his lack of composure on the ball.
We need to improve on our passing game and that starts from the back everytime i see Jamie hoofing it forward it makes me weep.We talk often about the Liverpool way and in relation to the team we always had defenders that were comfortable on the ball.Johnson/Agger/Aurelio are good but Carragher is shocking he needs to keep his passing as simple as possible and cut out the hollywood thru balls over the top.I think he should definitely stay in the side.Every top side should sacrifice 3 or 4 players to purely defensive duties including the keeper(And by the way we probably take for granted how lucky we are to have Reina).And the rest should be attack minded without neglecting there defensive duties.Terry Venables once said something that stuck with me.In relation to the Charlton brothers Bobby and Jackie.He said every side should have more bobbies than jackies in the team.Our Bobbies are Gerrard/Torres/Cole/Johnson/Babel/Agger/ our Jackies are Reina/Carragher/Poulsen/Jovanovich/Aurelio.My preferred team is probably self evident
————–Reina
Johnson–Carragher–Agger–Aurelio
Babel—-Gerrard—-poulsen–Jovanovich
—————-Cole
—————-Torres
Some people seem to be hoping that we fail to prove their arguments.I really wanted Rafa to stay
i thought we would dominate for years with him at the helm.And i was gutted he was ousted but i love Liverpool Fc more.Hopefully roy can keep us challenging til these 2 cunts Gillet and Hicks leave.I deffo dont want to go the way of Leeds Utd.Sorry i have digressed from my reason for this blog.Joe cole will flourish as a shadow striker.He is the most skilful british player of his generation wait and see that’s all I ask.
YNWA
|
 #320 |
KENNY DALGLISH LFC LEGEND
Posted on August 22, 2010 @ 9:42 pm
Gaz – it’s you who wants his cake and to eat it. I think if i’m not mistaken 3 people named teams, me, FS & LB – all had Aquilani in the first 11.
Give youth a chance? Aquilani is 25 Poulsen 30.
Now who the hell thinks we can win the league or challenge this season because the way it’s going Satan will be skating to work before that happens.
I fear we are done for. FS Any idea what is going on with the loan extension, takeover etc?
|
 #321 |
KENNY DALGLISH LFC LEGEND
Posted on August 22, 2010 @ 9:43 pm
Rafamuffin…that’s precisely the team I never wanted to see. If that’s an improvement on what we had I’ll eat my hat.
|
 #322 |
rome77
Posted on August 22, 2010 @ 9:44 pm
The way i looked at the “give the kids a chance”
comments last season,was similar to hearing a Butcher shouting NEXT in a slaughterhouse.
But this made me chuckle
“Roy made a categorical statement that he had spoken via phone to the Inter president and been assured that they would not bid for any of our players.”
Get with the programe Roy.
Untill you get one of those Swiss sim cards that the Snakes are using, thats all your going to hear.
|
 #323 |
timmytorres
Posted on August 22, 2010 @ 10:01 pm
Oh me god,this justgets better by the hour.
Asset stripping is well under way.
Aitch i think purslow wrote into that contract that Rafa HAS to buy some of our players.That would be more believeable.
I can`t for the life of me understand how any supporter of LFC can see the Aquallini deal and shrug their shoulders like it won`t make one blind bit of difference to our squad and subsequently our chances this season.
Fats couldn`t have put it better in one sentence…
LFC no longer exists to be the best it can be.
Yes i understand most football clubs are no watching the pennys.The board are doing more than just making some cuts.They are stripping the life out of the club.
Cecil seems to be stripping roy of his squad.Roy is helpless to do anything about it.
hat is happening right now had been forecasted in here for ages.
Guys called for Rafa`s head.He`d lost the dressing room.Last season was a disaster no doubt,but one bad season dosen`t constitute a world class manager losing his job.
Maybe his job became untenable anyway but there`s a bigger picture here.
Whatever one thinks of Rafael Benitez the football manager,he was on our side in this war we`re in.
He had power to stop players leaving.He had some power to stop the asset stripping.He refused to dance to the boards tune.
He had a master plan,which he could never complete as long as Tom and George were in town,and nearly did the impossible,despite them.
His over achievement in 08/09 ultimately cost him the trust of a lot of our fan base who last year despite all of the reasons for the failure,they refused to acknowledge them.
Yes he had a part to play in the demise,after all he was the manager.The players have to hold their hands up also.
Ultimately the reason we`re in this mess lads is because of Tom,George and their foot soldiers.
They`ve taken our club away and who knows if we`ll ever get it back?
|
 #324 |
timmytorres
Posted on August 22, 2010 @ 10:04 pm
And as for Roy,i ish him the best,i really do.He is on a hiding to nothinhg in my book.
Well Roy,welcome to your dream job……
(wakes up and falls into his cornflakes)
|
 #325 |
Aitch
Posted on August 22, 2010 @ 10:46 pm
I really hope we get a result tomorrow.
And there is no reason why we should not.
But if we don’t… and if, god forbid, something goes wrong out at Trabzon on Thursday…
… heaven help us.
|
 #326 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 22, 2010 @ 11:07 pm
But lads there is a feel good factor at Anfield. Joe Cole is better than Messi and Roy has steadied the ship.
|
 #327 |
gazmaninaus
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 12:23 am
The mood of this blog is getting to a point where several people are going to be broken if we start winning a few games.
.
It is a shit situation to be in but so was the start of the wonderful club, we were left with no players and went on to form a huge history.
.
Chin up lads, its a storm and they all pass.
|
 #328 |
Aitch
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 12:37 am
…which conveniently overlooks that it took us 50 years to even begin to “form a huge history” and that we had to drop down into the 2nd Division before actually doing so!
And no one in here will be broken if we win a few games.
But there’ll be plenty sharpening knives if we don’t… and it won’t be the people who supported Rafa… coz they’ll be too busy defending Roy…
… against the very people who seem insistant on thinking everything is gonna be okay!
All storms do indeed pass…
…some drop a bit of rain…
…some devastate New Orleans (which still hasn’t recovered)
Predicting hellfire based on what we know, is far, far different to actually wanting and hoping for it… and you know that Gaz.
|
 #329 |
gazmaninaus
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 1:04 am
Alas though they do pass Aitch and we both know it. Its still a Red shirt we’re watching.
|
 #330 |
rome77
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 1:20 am
Not at all Gaz we’ve been in this storm for a few years and it just makes those rays of sunshine a win provides feel so much better.
But the trouble is this storm as turned into a Hurricane, last weeks “feel good factor” brought on by a feeling of a imminent takeover, has just turned out to be the eye of the hurricane.
And now i can see all the debri flying around again and its got very f*cking windy again.
And i’ve got to say i’m worried Captain Roy, who as steadied the ship through the eye of the storm wont get us through the winds and waves that swept away Captain Rafa.
Last Thursday i went to Anfield half hoping Kenny Huang was going to be presented to the fans as the new owner, I had a strange feeling at HT that something big was happening,it was certainly a weird atmosphere .
Turns out something big was happening but none of it good
Rafa winning his first trophy for Inter has made it feel a little worse.
Hence i’m extremely pissed off, but i found myself laughing at @326 so all is not lost.
YNWA
|
 #331 |
5yearplan
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 1:20 am
Fuck Roy and the horse he rode in on, this man knew what he was getting into, this man knew what sort of control he would have over transfers, and if either of these statements is untrue then the man is an idiot.
I will support my club and by default the manager, but make no mistake all Roy Hodgson is doing for Liverpool football club is providing a friendly face for the downgrading of the team.
I have had enough to be honest, you can only spend so much of your life telling people to wake up and smell the bullshit.
We are the new Newcastle, delusional about our status in the world and chances are pretty soon we will be the new Leeds.
Already the revisionists are out in force telling us how difficult a job Roy has and how 4th place would be a good season, how we should not worry about europe and concentrate on the league.
Some of the threads on forums are either populated by H&G’s lap dogs or our fans have no idea what they are talking about.
Mascherano is being wrote off as just a limited defensive midfielder and Aqualina as too lightweight, but look who their replacements are going to be.
Every fibre of my body tells me that I should support Roy but in all honesty I cant because he is part of the problem, not the solution, the “steadying of the ship is going to put us back another 5 years by the time it is finished.
What our fans dont seem to realise is that even if we have a half decent season, which incidentally we won’t, it will not matter, by the time January comes round we must have new owners because if we haven’t there will be an exodus of whatever decent players we have left and we will be left with the mediocre buys that Purslow and Roy have contrived to fob us of with.
If it is true that Lucas has put in a transfer request it would seem that even our minor players cant wait to leave the sinking ship, I love Lucas to bits but First Masch then Aqua and now Lucas,expect more performances of the calibre of last season from Gerrard when he realises who he has left to play with.
I dont think Roy is a bad person, I think he has either bit off far more than he can chew or like some of our players believed the crap that was being peddled to him, but support the man, it isn’t going to happen.
Roy is responsible, because he signed contracts that gave him no control over transfers, Roy is responsible because he gives credibility to the board and Roy is responsible because he knows whats going on and is still letting them do it.
Gaz
just to answer your point in #327 no I won’t be broken if we win a few games, I want us to win a few games, in fact I want us to win all of them but you know as well as I do what is happening here and as stated before even if this season isn’t a nightmare then the next one will be, because there is still a massive debt to be fed and none of the board seem to have the will or the desire to do anything but continue to fill their pockets or their employers pockets.
|
 #332 |
gazmaninaus
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 6:54 am
Five year and Rome chin up lads, its a tragic situation but it could be worse (wish I knew how to insert a smiley face here).
Ok so we didn’t win the league last year.
Ok so we’ve lost some of our quality players.
Ok so we’ve got shit owners.
Ok so we have a massive debt.
Ok so we’ve still got fickle come lately fans.
Ok so we’ve still got a Scott as Manager.
Oh shite, sorry wrong forum.
.
Have a chuckle lads.
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 #333 |
KENNY DALGLISH LFC LEGEND
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 8:50 am
Gaz – What???? For me regarding LFC there is absolutley nothing to chuckle about.
The tragedy is some business man with the fan base we have could make an absolute fortune just giving a decent manager £30 odd million a year, letting him have any funds he generates while having a decent shot at the title. I’d be happy with that.
It’s not going to happen. Gaz there’s nothing funny about my club being pillaged by two greedy con men.
Worst of all? You sound like digger.
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 #334 |
Lurgankop
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 9:01 am
Gaz, I hope that you’re being ironic in post #332.
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 #335 |
Arthur G. Posis
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 9:49 am
Lads – where we hearing these Lucas transfer rumours???
|
 #336 |
norwayLFC76
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 9:53 am
I totally agree with everybody in here saying Paulsen is not good enough for Liverpool, even if he needs to be given a chance first. I think he was bought in a bit too early as an replacement for Monster, as it for a wild seemed more than likely he would go. Hopefully that will not be the case and the purchase of Paulsen would seem a wasted piece of business even if the thought was to have a sort of replacement in place before you sold the player instead of afterwards.
What I don’t understand is how highly Aquilani is rated in here! The player is just not good enough to justify the price tag or the hype. The few Games he played for us you could easily see this player would never cut it in Premier League. Even if he was not fully fit you can always see if a player has that bit of class. Cole has it and I would never put in Aquilani before Cole. Of course it would be great to have him in the squad but loan him out this year and sell him next summer. This is a case of cutting our loses.
I thought the spirit the team showed against Arsenal would give us some kind of hope! The players clearly believe in what Roy is trying to do! So why can’t we do the same? This club is in a bit of a mess but I’am 110% confident that within a short period of time the club will be saved. For good sake this is Liverpool Football Club one of the worlds top 5 supported clubs in the world. We are not Leeds, Newcastle or Portsmouth!
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 #337 |
Rafalution
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 11:06 am
Norway: Yes, lets see how the season pans out – starting with Shiteh tonight.
But it is easier said than done, ignoring the doom & gloom re the 2 idiot owners, the (impending??) sale of the club, the fact that the new manager has been linked with Luke Young (amongst others), the curious transfer speculations re Kuyt etc. I think us fans just want to know whats going on. Is Purslow pulling the strings? Why has Huang blamed Broughton – does he (Broughton) have a hidden agenda, not helped by the fact that he is a huge Chel$ki fan?
Too many questions, and it is difficuklt to keep focused on the games at hand, and indeed any happenings on the pitch. It just goes to show the shit that Rafa had to go through, day in day out. If we, the fans, are affected by the shenanigans, what did the previous manager have to go through?
And now there is a story that Roy has come out in the open, saying that he NEEDS more funds? And this just before a big game? He should be focusing on the game tonight, not having to make statements like this, that he needs money to upgrade the squad.
This is going to be a tough season. Newcastle thrashing Villa, the Scum drawing to Fulham, Blackpool winning on the opening day. The Arse then proceeding to stick 6 past Blackpool, Chel$ki off to a flyer. Fuck, I’m worried. Roy has a job on his hands, and he is not helped by the chops like Purslow, who it seems, is pulling the strings at the club.
So you can’t really blame the doom & gloom that is prevalent. You can be guaranteed that everyone here is 100% behind the team, and (of course) wnat them to win every game. But you also have to look at the bigger picture – what is going on behind closed doors, the seemingly strange decisions/ideas that Roy has had thus far. So far, I’m not convinced that he is the right man.
But lets give it a chance. Maybe he proves me/us wrong. At the same time, it is impossible not to forget what is happening to our club at this present time.
|
 #338 |
burgerman
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 11:16 am
Have to go for the win 2nite-Torres instead of JC should be the only change to the starting line-up.What’s happened to El Zahr?.Lasanna Diarra for £mill would of ben a better option than the tubby Dane!
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 #339 |
Lurgankop
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 11:19 am
The club is a sham from top to bottom and therein lies the problem.
We have no idea who the real decision makers are from the board level to the loaning/selling/purchasing of players.
The silence is deafening and the longer it goes on the more damage it will do. In fact there has to be a limit as to when the damage done will become irreparable.
If that doesn’t make you chuckle, then I don’t know what will.
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 #340 |
Rafalution
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 11:26 am
Like FS says, It would be better if one ignored sites like Talk Shite (luckily we don’t get that crap here) & Sly, but…can’t help myself.
This from the Match Preview:
“…whilst Hodgson appeared to adopt a more attacking mindset against Arsenal than his predecessor Rafa Benitez would have done.”
Can you effing believe that shit? Or is it me just being a one-eyed, blinkered believer & supporter of Rafa?
|
 #341 |
Arthur G. Posis
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 11:32 am
Burgerman – we don’t need to go for win. A win would be nice – but not essential. A draw would be a very decent result indeed!
|
 #342 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 12:06 pm
Arthur, since when did not trying to win a football match become acceptable? Aren’t we supposed to try and win every game? WTF?
|
 #343 |
gazmaninaus
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 12:17 pm
Gerry’s blog was always about humour and wit, and if you read the above still is. So it’s a sad day when a life long LFC fan gets slated for taking the piss out of Manchester United.
.
The Americans might own the club but they don’t own me, and they will never own my humour and I wont give it to them, not a laugh more.
.
I have tried to remain positive and if SG and Co gave up like some on here, well fuck me there would be no Instanbul. Hate the people you should and laugh with yor mates, not tear the arse out of people who care.
|
 #345 |
Lurgankop
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 12:51 pm
Gaz, didn’t see the reference to the whiskey one in #332. So please ignore post #334 and my dig at the end of #339.
BM, I see that the manure conceded a last minute equaliser yesterday. That’s a 50% ratio for the season. Not a great stat for the mighty manure, eh?
|
 #346 |
5yearplan
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 1:37 pm
Its not giving up Gaz, its not being pessimistic.
One of the problems we have is that people still have this “it can’t happen here” attitude.
I hear that phrase “we are Liverpool” from a lot of fans and I understand their feelings, there is a belief that we are too big a club for us to collapse, too well supported etc, but I can tell you this Leeds fans thought the same thing.
I want to be optomistic but we are getting closer and closer to the edge and I believe that we have taken our eye of the ball again.
The fact is it can happen here and we will still be Liverpool but while things remain as they are we are getting closer to emulating Leeds than winning the league.
It is a positive attitude to believe in Roy and believe in the players, but just Look at the way some of our players played when they thought there was no investment coming.
Suddenly there are buyers on the horizon and everything is Hunky dory, but now those buyers are drifting away and it is not beyond the realm of possibility that when the players realise that there is no brave new dawn that we will act like rats on a sinking ship and Purslow and co will be only too happy to offer them lifeboats.
Nobody on this forum or anywhere else could be happier than me if I am proved disastrously wrong, but smiling on the way to the gallows wont make the rope go away
|
 #347 |
Arthur G. Posis
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 2:01 pm
LB – Jesus man! you’re negativity these days knows no bounds!
Of course a team goes out to win. But away from home against City – a draw is a very very acceptable result. And I was merely replying to Burgerman assertion that we HAD to win.
We don’t HAVE to win. Two points from these opening two games would be a decent haul (in fact it would one point better off versus the corresponding fixtures last season) and then hopefully pick up full marks against Brum and West Brom.
LB, we get it – you don’t like RH. OK, well what can do about it right now? Nowt. No need to be so pedantic. I’m gonna follow the team – see how things go – and in my world (call me crazy if you want) but a point tonight would be A-OK by me.
Can we win tonight? Of course we can – come on the Reds!
BTW – team apparently for tonight is:
Reina
Johnson
Carra
Skrtel
Aurelio
Poulsen
Mascherano
Kuyt
Gerrard
Jova
Torres
|
 #348 |
corklfc
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 2:13 pm
Have been on hols for the past 2 weeks and only catching up with comments today, the only action I have seen was hi-lights of the Arse game on MOD2.
Good aul Lawro announced the end of the “Dreaded Zonal Marking” – I kid you not!!
Strangly enough the Mancs “Man Marking System” wasn’t mentioned last night.
On hols around Ireland over the last 2 Weeks, I can’t get over the amount of people wearing the new Kit, but I suppose most don’t see the bigger picture!!
|
 #349 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 2:22 pm
Arthur, you said “we don’t need to go for win”. I asked a simple question as to since when this philosophy became acceptable. We go into a game where your ambition is to gain a point and you call ME negative? I don’t often agree with Burgerman but he said “we have to go for the win”. I share the same opinion. We should have that attitude in every game we play. Go for the win. If it doesn’t work out and we draw then so be it.
There have been games under Rafa where I thought we didn’t go for the win. Stoke away a couple of seasons ago springs immediately to mind but there are other occasions as well. I criticised the approach in many posts on here and got into arguments with the likes of Keith and FS because of it.
So mate don’t patronise me by telling me you get it that I don’t like Roy. I will pull up anyone who is happy to go into a game thinking we don’t need to win regardless who the manager is.
My prediction tonight is 0-0. Call that negative if you want.
|
 #350 |
bhavster
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 2:28 pm
LB – can get 8/1 odds for that score mate. Worth a tenner surely?
|
 #351 |
knight
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 2:28 pm
Guys, too much lamenting about the past. Let’s take the positives from here.
Roy has taken over from Rafa.
Roy managed to entice Joe Cole to LFC
And persuaded Torres and Gerrard to stay
He nearly got three points against Arsenal, despite being 10 men(9 at one stage) down and fighting, attacking more vigourously than we were with 11.
IMHO showed courage to use Babel upfront as a lone striker
Recruited Poulson, just in case Masch scoots off to Inter or more likely now, Barca.
Threw on Kelly against Trabzonspor, giving the kid a chance.
Used Jova thrice already in our games. Good stuff that.
So OK, Aqualani was bought for nearly Stg20 million.He is good, mind you. Yes, I will field him in games. But irreplaceble as some of you allude to? I don’t quite agree. Maybe there is something that Roy knows – and why talk when you wanna loan Aqualung out?- that we don’t and thus loaned him out as a result. We will never know. Personally I don’t think it is purely for financial reasons.
And yes, the Board members, Purse-low and Bought-man do not have LFC at heart. They are doing G&H’s bidding not to sell to anyone. Kenny Huang could have been a saviour. They just talked, talked and allowed Kenny to pull out. Sigh!
|
 #352 |
5yearplan
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 2:29 pm
LB
Gotta agree with you on the scoreline, if Arthur has the line up right that looks like a team that doesn’t want to concede and given Mancini’s defensive nature its a good possibility.
But as always i will be hoping for a win
|
 #353 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 2:30 pm
2 points from 2 games is a decent haul? No it isn’t because West Brom (home) and Brum (away) is no guaranteed 6 points. Can’t pick and choose the games to go for the win. That’s my way of thinking anyway.
|
 #354 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 2:31 pm
Bhav, I’m going bookies to put a tenner on.
|
 #355 |
Arthur G. Posis
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 2:39 pm
LB – we seem to have got our wires crossed. Yes I would like our team to go out and win every game. But as you well know this is not always possible – fight the battles you know you can win.
My problem last year was the clear negativity showed against the lesser lights – the stokes, wolves et al.
If we get a point tonight – it will be a good result in my eyes. Remember we have to steady the ship?
|
 #356 |
corklfc
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 2:52 pm
A draw is a good result when you don’t deserve to win.
|
 #357 |
Arthur G. Posis
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 3:03 pm
No CorkLFC – draws away from home against Chelsea, Man Utd, Arsenal, Man City and Spurs are good results.
Then you try and beat them at home!
Man Utd are quite defensive away from home against the top teams…playing usually on the counter
Fight smart
|
 #358 |
Arthur G. Posis
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 3:09 pm
I’d also go as far as saying: a draw is a good result when you’re up against away from home who have greater resources/squad then you.
I think we’d nearly all agree that teams I mentioned above are currently better equipped than us…
QED
|
 #359 |
Arthur G. Posis
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 3:09 pm
up against a team
argh – why can’t we edit posts!!
|
 #360 |
Arthur G. Posis
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 3:11 pm
2 points against those two particular teams is a decent haul – in context of the whole season LB
|
 #361 |
corklfc
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 3:18 pm
So, A draw is a good result when you are playing a team that is better that you
|
 #362 |
guinnessdrinker
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 3:23 pm
well the corresponding fixture last season was quiet possibly the most boring match i’ve ever seen surly it cant be as bad tonight? 1-2 to the reds Jova and Nando with the goals. the midfield battle will be very physical from both sides could be a good few cards handed out anyone know who the ref is?
|
 #363 |
Arthur G. Posis
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 3:26 pm
away from home yes it is. It doesn’t mean you can’t win – but in the context of a long season – if you get anything away at Stamford Bridge, OLd Toilet etc – I think you can deem that to be a positive result.
Utd lost the league last year by 2 points I think. They would have won had they got a point at Chelsea and ourselves.
This is kinda fundamental lads no??? I mean are you guys saying if someone said at the start of the season you’ll draw away all the Top 4 teams – you’d surely take it, no????
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 #364 |
corklfc
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 3:39 pm
Thats assuming we beat all the lower ranked teams home and away, that dosn’t happen either.
Example
Say we beat every team that finished below us last season (we should because we are better!!)
Thats 13 teams – 26 games 78 points
And draw the rest – 12 games 12 points
Total – 90 points!!!!! We’re going to win the league….
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 #365 |
Reds in Aus
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 3:54 pm
It’s semantics but I agree with LB ‘you don’t go for a draw’ (unless you are blackburn). You go to win and if winning means playing defensive and exaggerated counter attacks then so be it.
I think we’ll win but it wont change the mess we are in unless H&G fuck off. We need the boys to tread water for a while – but they wont do it forever and so if things aren’t sorted out by jan then we’ll lose half the team in the next year or so and end up as the scandanavian over 40′s…
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 #366 |
Arthur G. Posis
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 3:57 pm
(sigh)
|
 #367 |
Arthur G. Posis
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 4:28 pm
I’m not saying we should “play for a draw”, “park the bus” or any other tired footballing analogy. I’m saying that we play smart against these better teams – not going all gung-ho against them from the first whistle. Obviously take a win if it presents itself but in the end of the day – in these matches – ensure at least you don’t lose
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 #368 |
Aitch
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 4:46 pm
I’ll tell you what Arthur, it’s a bloody good thing you weren’t one of the Rafa Out Brigade after sayig what you just said about a cautious approach
But Hang on … let me see if I’m understanding this…
The Always Look On The Bright Side of Life, Stop Being So Negative, Rainbow at the End of The Storm, We’ll Be Alright Coz We’re Liverpool, Sunshine Brigade, think a Draw is a good result…
And the Keep Your Eyes Open, Gloomy Gums, More than Meets the Eyes to This Whole Mess, Purveyors of All That is Negative, think a Draw should never be acceptable prior to kick-off…
So those who “think positive”, think we should accept a draw before a ball has been kicked
And those who “think negative”, think we should be going for a win.
Interesting that
There is absolutely no reason why we can’t bag a 2-1 win tonight.
Bucket Load of Big Money signings they might be, but if we can contain their attack, their defense is still well dodgy.
Going to Citeh, is hardly going to the Toilet (Trafford), the other Toilet (Bridge), or even, for that matter, the Really Fancy Victorian Toilet (Emirates)
The idea that we should now be accepting of a draw at City and Spurs, simply coz they’ve had 1 or 2 good seasons and bought a few good players is baffling.
And Gaz, I thought that poem was about Everton 
(oh and you do a smiley by typing : and ) next to each other)
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 #369 |
Aitch
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 5:05 pm
Oh and in answer to 363
I guess we’ll all have differing views on this maybe… but…
No I certainly wouldn’t take it Arthur… coz I fuckin loved it when we went to Old Trafford and beat them ugly!
Nope sorry, I’ll risk losing 3 point for guaranteed 1 every day, if it means just once out of every 5 fixtures at Old Trafford we could beat Scum 2-0 or 4-1.
That shit lives in memory and folklore…. A point anywhere never does.
Also, once again, this is a philosophical argument.
Is a draw a good result?
Well, I’d argue first and foremost before we answer that question, we need t ask another…
Has a ball been kicked yet?
Look at the Fulham game…
Philosophically a point against Scum is one of those “expect to get anything out of the game” situations, prior to kick off.
Granted, its a concrete point on the board now …
… but the manner in which they went about getting that point….
Well… own goal to put Scum up 2-1 up, Scum then get a “nothing” pen, goalie saves it, and the fella that scored the own goal, gets the equalizer!
No one, not Liverpool, not Fulham, should “take a draw” before kick-off, when you can go earn one like that. Fulham fans will be bouncing off that result… off the manner of that result not the point, for a long time… to coin a phrase “they’ll dine out on it for a long time”…
… but they were denied 2 clear penalties that if they’d put them away would have seen them beat Scum…
… so should they have “taken the point prior to the game”?
I don’t think so….
Mind you, if you’re paying Chelsea right now, maybe it doesn’t matter who you are, so maybe Arthur’s right… take the point and fuck off home
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 #370 |
bhavster
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 5:14 pm
on these very hallowed blog posts, rafa got the proverbial stick stuck up his proverbial arse for drawing too many games. mathematicians and football scholars espoused the ‘one win is better than two draws’ mantra till he finally packed his bags and left for pasta land.
and now we are debating whether a draw is a good result. good. i like it when some things never change.
YNWA
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 #371 |
Aitch
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 5:35 pm
bhav… Not to mention suggesting that we not “go for it” and play cautiously.
Now where have a I read quite a bit of discussion extolling the danger and absolute futility of “the cautious approach”??
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 #372 |
5yearplan
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 5:40 pm
Well said Bhavster, how many times have we heard about Rafa’s negative tactics causing too many draws and thus losing us the league, and now draws are good.
Roy is being judged on standards that would have been completely unacceptable under Rafa.
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 #373 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 6:04 pm
A draw away from home was a good result before the mid 80s when it was 2 points for a win. These days its the number of victories that determine league position. Spurs finished 4th ahead of Man City by BEATING them at Eastlands. Not by playing for a draw and leaving it for the last game of the season which was at White Hart Lane.
To illustrate the point see below:
2009-10
Spurs won 21 draw 7 lost 10. 70 PTS.
Man City won 18 draw 13 lost 7. 67 PTS.
2008-09
Man Utd won 28 draw 6 lost 4. 90 PTS.
Liverpool won 25 draw 11 lost 2. 86 PTS.
Check out Serie A in 1996-97 when Roy was in charge. Inter and Parma battling it our for a CL spot.
Parma won 18 draw 9 lost 7. 63 PTS.
Inter won 15 draw 14 lost 5. 59 PTS.
Serie A 2005-06
1st Juventus Won 26 Draw 8 Lost 4. 86 PTS.
2nd Milan Won 23 Draw 10 Lost 5. 79 PTS.
3rd Inter Won 18 Draw 18 Lost 2. 72 PTS.
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 #374 |
Dizzy
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 6:09 pm
i dont think masch is even gonna make the bench today … barca says the player has agreed personal terms ….
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 #375 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 6:13 pm
There are also the intangibles. Wins away from home at your rivals give the team a huge lift. Players gain belief. After we beat Man Utd 4-1 we looked a different team. No coincidence the closest we’ve come to winning the title in 20 years was when we beat both Chelsea and Man Utd away.
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 #376 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 6:19 pm
Seems Masch has agreed personal terms but the clubs have not agreed a fee? I just read Barca have offered €15m + Hleb + Cáceres.
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 #377 |
Reds in Aus
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 6:34 pm
“Seems Masch has agreed personal terms but the clubs have not agreed a fee? I just read Barca have offered €15m + Hleb + Cáceres.”
Sounds like a pretty decent deal to me – considering Masch is desperate to go…
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 #378 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 6:40 pm
I also just read that we rejected the offer and want €30m straight up cash.
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 #379 |
rome77
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 6:45 pm
More of that feelgood factor Dizzy
Feelgood factor The sensation you feel when breathing in oxygen through a mask, while your plane is rapidly descending.
“Joe cole is better than Messi”
Does Gerrard sleep in a oxygen tent ?
YNWA
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 #380 |
pshenava
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 7:12 pm
Haha Rome77 that is magic….I have not read something as good as this one since Gerry completed his blog
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 #381 |
sachem
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 7:19 pm
Has Roy gone over to 4-4-2 tonight? It would seem like it with both N’Gog and Torres starting the game. Still no proper left back, but considering how Fabio looked last week one can’t really blame Roy on that one. Unless Mascherano is available (reports suggesting he’s nearly gone)
I do like the fact Lucas has been chosen ahead of Poulsen. The Dane looks like a decent player, but I really think Lucas with is impeccable attitude has earned a place in a starting eleven in a game of this magnitude. I would love to see him silence his critics (read: haters) once and for all.
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 #382 |
sachem
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 7:23 pm
Oh, space in the wrong place there. Well.
Whatever happened to Joe “Messi” Cole? Injured or left out?
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 #383 |
Aitch
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 7:34 pm
Keep up sachem lad, Cole is serving his first game of 3 match man for his red against the Arse.
4-4-2 seems pretty ballsy move… especially since they look to have gone 4-5-1 (thank fuck Balotelli wasn’t available, even as a sub, though!)
Come on Reds.
Liverpool 6 Man City 0
(… Does seem to be fast becoming the result-du-jour of the season )
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 #384 |
Lurgankop
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 7:36 pm
Red card from last match Sachem. Probably the reason that he was playing last Thursday as well.
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 #385 |
Lurgankop
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 7:39 pm
Keep up Aitch lad result is resultat in French
Went for a 1-1 myself tonight but seeing the line-up I think that there will be a winner tonight.
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 #386 |
KeithSA
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 7:41 pm
Spot on 5 year my sentiment exactly to all your recent post. The, I have a dream syndrome will rip the club apart. This feel good factor where 4th is acceptable and draws an achievement is laughable. Hypocrisy at it best.
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 #387 |
sachem
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 7:46 pm
How embarrassing, I almost feel like BM ought to feel. I’ll have a quick look in The Psychopathology of Everyday Life by Sigmund Freud to try and find an explanation for this loss of memory…
…
…OK, I looked, there was no explanation. Not even Freud could imagine that kind of memory loss.
I just hope this isn’t a sign of how tonight’s game will end.
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 #388 |
Lurgankop
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 7:50 pm
So 4-4-2 it is and the bullets are being loaded – a formation rarely used by Rafa Benitez.
Good luck lads.
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 #389 |
john constantine
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 7:54 pm
i fucking cant stick that fucking phil dowd
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 #390 |
Arthur G. Posis
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 8:43 pm
And after all my posts what does Roy do…???
I’ll bite someone’s hands off if they offered me a 1-1 at this stage. Wrong formation – outnumbered by City’s diamond in the middle. Agger is having a shocker against Johnson
We need to take Ngog off, bring on Poulsen and go like for like – otherwise we’re down and out tonight!
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 #391 |
john constantine
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 8:46 pm
fair point a-g-p from what i see too,ngog been a good outlet though to be fair,kuyt and glen johnson need to step up,torres’pace was lightning once.
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 #392 |
Aitch
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 8:50 pm
Bright start, switched off for a minute and that was it.
Been at sea since and they look far more likely to score a 2nd than we do of getting an equalizer.
Stevie G at fault for the goal, but other than that defense has looked pretty solid.
Midfield not clicking and Ngog and Torres pretty much double or triple teamed each time they receive the ball.
We get it across the half way line and suddenly lose all sense of judgement for a decent pass.
Still salvageable, but need it to be a “game of two halves”.
Must start 2nd half brighter and get some fluidity going.
And Arthur, you can still keep your 1-1 mate… 
…6-0 nil is off the cards, but no one has done a 6-1 yet.
I’ll settle for that!
Come on Reds…
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 #393 |
Rafalution
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 8:52 pm
Shit!
Crap formation, we are not in the game. Hopefully Roy changes the formation, coz we are not in the game at all.
Feel sorry for Nando & Ngog…and for Rafa, as he will surely be blamed for this defeat,
Still holding out hope though…
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 #394 |
Rafalution
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 8:52 pm
Shit!
Crap formation, we are not in the game. Hopefully Roy changes the formation, coz we are not in the game at all.
Feel sorry for Nando & Ngog…and for Rafa, as he will surely be blamed for this defeat,
Still holding out hope though…
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 #395 |
Lurgankop
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 8:53 pm
Ngog has been a bigger presence on the pitch than Torres. Torres has shown one burst of speed and, other than that, done nothing but give the ball away several times. So why not take him off?
SG nearly non-existant.
Dagger has been exposed several times one-on-one several times against Johnson. Why not play a LB at LB?
Is Kuyt on the pitch?
Disjointed is the most friendly adjective I can find to desrcibe that display in the first half.
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 #396 |
red4life
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 9:15 pm
I noticed that the 2 goal came from man-on-man defending. You can also see that there is obviously no room for a player like Aquilani. Dont really see Roy doing anything to change matter on the pitch either. Seems to be hoping that things just change by themselves.
Show the state of affairs that I dont care that we lose this.
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 #397 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 9:18 pm
Reminds me of the Souness era this.
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 #398 |
john constantine
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 9:19 pm
man city were shit when souness was in charge,get a grip.
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 #399 |
corklfc
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 9:29 pm
LB wasn’t refering to Man City in the Souness era, I think he was refering to us.
even though Roy won manager of the year with Fulham last season, thay had a worse away record than us, we only 5 away from home.
Get ready for a long season.
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 #400 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 9:30 pm
Get a grip? I was talking about our performance. 3-0 down and looking very ordinary against a side that to me do not look elite.
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 #401 |
pshenava
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 9:30 pm
Impressive english talent on display with Milner, Johnson and Hart. Credit to Mancini despite such strong foreign imports like Adebayor, silva, balotelli etc
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 #402 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 9:32 pm
Remember losing 5-1 to Coventry and 3-0 at Norwich in the early 90s. I just got flash backs.
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 #403 |
john constantine
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 9:35 pm
our performance has been dwarfed by citys hunger and being sharper all over the park,a lot of teams will look ordinary this season away to man city
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 #404 |
john constantine
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 9:38 pm
and please get that fucking hair cut glen johnson,you’ve done my head in tonight
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 #405 |
akka
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 9:39 pm
It’s pretty sad that watching this game doesn’t bring out alot of frustration like last year. why you ask? Because this was always coming and not a surprise.
But seriously. Roy not making any formation or player changes till the 80th min and 3-0 down.
We were being destroyed in the middle today. We pretty much said to man city “please attack all you like”.
Opposed to what others have said, I could have fitted aquaman into this team. Play him behind the striker. It adds another midfielder slightly into the middle and blocks more space, plus the lad can make a pass.
Ahh well, better get used to it.
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 #406 |
john constantine
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 9:41 pm
yes,we better get used to it,80 million on the bench at city,big gulf opening up,no longer the working class mans game
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 #407 |
sachem
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 9:44 pm
Don’t want to draw too many conclusions out of one dreadful display, but things aren’t looking bright at the moment in any respect.
I dare not imagine where we might find ourselves at the end of the season if this is any indication of what we can expect from Roy and the players. Tough opposition tonight, but we’re Liverpool for fuck’s sake.
That we actually challenged for the title a couple of seasons ago (little more than a year ago, in fact) does seem rather unreal at the moment.
On to the ownership issue… or on the other hand, I don’t really feel like getting into that tonight.
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 #408 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 9:45 pm
I thought that was embarrassing.
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 #409 |
corklfc
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 9:53 pm
It hasn’t being a working class mans game for a long time.
Expect the transfer speculation to go into over-drive after tonight.
I also expect the feel good factor will have disappeared, so maybe lads can focus on the REAL problems at hand.
Akka, I felt the same as you man, it’s like things are running to a pre-written script.
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 #410 |
KeithSA
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 9:54 pm
How’s the feel good factor know? When last were we tactically so totally out played. If this is what Roy is going to bring to the party we are in for a very long season. Wrong formation, wrong personal and people in the wrong positions and all he can do is sit on the bench with a hang dog expression mixed with bemusement. Did he not witness, first hand, England’s exit at the world cup with this formation.
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 #411 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 9:55 pm
My mate went to the game. Left the stadium disgusted with the performance, went back to his car to find the window smashed in.
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 #412 |
pshenava
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 9:56 pm
This game and like a lot others this season will just pass by. Sad times really and many fans will still see like to see the silver lining / feel good factor.
We looked terrible and mind you the city we were playing had so many newcomers and everyone said this was the perfect time to play them. It even had 6 english players
I am yet to see Roy convince in the 3 games of my watching this season. He looked so naive sticking in the 4-4-2 option when Torres is still not himself and we are playing away. Lucas and Gerrard were overrun. No one seemed interested. Little bit of occasional quality from gerrard rest missing.
When there is a manager change, teams tend to do well (shoot above themselves initally) and then taper down. However even that is missing sadly.
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 #413 |
corklfc
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 9:58 pm
Only Yaya and Milner were new additions outfield compared with last season for city, so most of their summer purchases were not playing
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 #414 |
Lurgankop
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 10:00 pm
What has 80 million quid worth of ‘talent’ on Citeh’s bench got to do with a football match on the pitch. OK they can make an impact if they are actually brought on to change the impetus but that was never the case here, nor did it look to be likely.
JC, if you went thru both teams, there was not much to chose between the two starting XIs, IMHO. However our 4-4-2 starting formation meant that we were overrun in midfield, which is fair enough to start with until you see that this is a problem and then change formation accordingly. This was not done.
If we continue on like this, we’ll be lucky to finish better than 7th this season even if we do not have any injuries. Add to this if we don’t get new owners and Torres fucks off in Jan, which is what he will do when he realises all the promises to keep him at Anfield this summer, are just more lies based on top of other lies.
Fucked off and away to bed.
A demain.
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 #415 |
Lurgankop
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 10:04 pm
How many times was LFC beaten by 3 clear goals under Rafa. I can’t think of too many of the top of my head – chel$ki, everton…
We were a fuckin’ disjointed mess tonight, which maybe expected under a new manager but I don’t think that this is the case here. Will be happy to be proven wrong.
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 #416 |
Arthur G. Posis
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 10:09 pm
LB – have to say I agree with you 100% – haven’t had a feeling like that since the Souness era – Southampton 4-2 one night in 94 springs to mind.
Big big problems
First things first however, we wont face teams as good as City very often but in saying that, we were second best in EVERY SINGLE DEPARTMENT.
1) Wrong formation from very start. As I spoke about earlier today we should have kept it tight and tried to make them nervey – the longer it stayed nil nil we could have caught them on the break. We played a simplistic 4-4-2 in which we were unable to string two passes together and had absolutely zero width..which brings me to…
2) Kuyt and Jova – it now seems we have a left footed Dirk. Jova was shown up to be as ordinary as I feared. He’s no left sided midfielder – possibly a striker (going by his record in Belgium) but if we persist with him out there – in tandem with Dirk – we’re in for a worrying and sobering season
3) Agger ain’t no left back. Ill hold my hands up here and say that last season I thought he could do a job here – tonight proved the folly of my thinking. Slow footed, slow witted – our most elegant centre half looked like Djimi’s retarded blind cousin out there tonight. Not fair on him to be placed there. We need to sort it..PRONTO. As a stop gap – how about Martin Kelly? I guarantee we wouldn’t have looked as shakey down that side if he was on.
4) Lucas ain’t fit enough to shine Mascherano’s boots. Give me Poulsen any day. I’ve been saying it for two years now – Lucas. is. not. good. enough. at. this. level. Great attitude, yesh. Great heart, yesh. Great skill, talent, passing/shooting/scoring ability????? NO AND HE NEVER WILL.
All is not lost – hopefully we’ll beat West Brom on Saturday after having got through that tricky tie in Turkey…hmmmmm…not so sure all of a sudden
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 #417 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 10:10 pm
The left side was a problem all night. Going forward and defensively. Agger and Jova were both poor – getting skinned by Johnson all night long. Hodgson did fuck all about it until the game was already put to bed. We have 2 left backs yet we have a centre half playing left back. Jova was shocking.
We got over powered in midfield. Oceans of space any time City broke away. 4-4-2 did not work at all.
Masch will be missed.
I need a positive spin on this. Where’s Arthur?
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 #418 |
pshenava
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 10:11 pm
Yeah you right Corklfc they played with most of the players from last season. Smart move from Mancini. This means we stacked up pretty even stevens in my opinion and still got beat so badly 3-0. Very poor…
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 #419 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 10:24 pm
Jovanovic looks shite. Sorry but I’m calling it as I see it. Rafa signed another Voronin I reckon. I wasn’t too enamoured when I watched him in the world cup. Tonight he looked like a pub player.
When I said we should try to win every game I didn’t mean 4-4-2. Bloody hell. From the 10th minute I could see that it would be a problem whenever we lost possession.
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 #420 |
sachem
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 10:26 pm
Lurgan
Once at Old Toilet in the game Masch got sent off early.
Once away against Arsenal.
Once at Goodison.
That’s over the course of five seasons. In Rafa’s early days we had a far worse team than tonight. And we were never tactically out-manoeuvred the way were tonight. At least not the way I remember it.
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 #421 |
sachem
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 10:32 pm
I think you’re too harsh on Jovanovic LB. He should get some time to adjust to a different league, and I think he’s shown some quality in some of the previous games.
He was signed on a free transfer, right?
I reckon Rafa either intended to use him as a squad player. I’m quite certain Rafa did not intend to use him as a winger in a 4-4-2 lineup. Draw your own conclusions.
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 #422 |
sachem
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 10:36 pm
Unless I’m very much mistaken, Rafa tried to sign both David Silva and Stevan Jovetic last summer. I’m not having a go at Jovanovic, but let’s just say there is a difference between quality and quality.
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 #423 |
Aitch
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 10:49 pm
…not to mention Arda Turan, sachem.
Well that was fuckin embarrassing…
… but as predicted, its left to the Rafa Defenders to defend the new guy!
This had fuck all to do with 4-4-2…
… and everything to do with how the players within that 4-4-2 actually played (or didn’t in this case)
I dunno about Jovanovic looking like a pub player, so did Glenda, and SG and even Agger in parts.
All 3 goals were preventable, and all 3 goals, we just watched them score.
Once again, everyone’s favorite scapegoat Lucas, was actually Liverpool’s Man-of-the-Match, although that was entirely by default since everyone else was largely steamed shite!
It has to be said that going a goal down early didn’t do us any favors… it put the bit between their teeth and their tails up …but we certainly didn’t really respond.
In the 2nd half it was the same story… concede an early goal (which had a bit of FOUL to it for my money, but oh well) at least we did respond…
… but when 5 goal-bound shots… and I mean bang-on, dead-cert goals… don’t go in, in a 3 minute flurry like that… you know Fate has cast its vote…
…and once again, you are gonna be the big-nosed, wart-ugly sister with no chair when the music stops.
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 #424 |
john constantine
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 11:54 pm
couldn’t of said it better myself aitch,spot on
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 #425 |
YNWAlancey
Posted on August 23, 2010 @ 11:56 pm
No, only Gerrard looked at all like he belonged out there. He and Johnson were the only ones that had good enough first touches to really get anything achieved in attack…
Yes, Lucas was mom, as far as passing backwards and the odd side pass, but then only Gerrard was passing longer than 5 yards forwards…
Overall, I think look exactly how we’ve spent in the transfer market…
My overall thought during the game was whos going to leave our club after Mash?I sure hope Moores is enjoying his money from selling out to the American assest strippers…
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 #426 |
Aitch
Posted on August 24, 2010 @ 12:24 am
Actually, lancey
SG wasn’t the only one playing “longer than 5 yard passes”
Carra was, Agger was, Johnson was and Kuyt tried a few…
…and they almost all went straight to a fuckin SkyBlue shirt.
SG played well for about 10 minutes in the first half and 10 in the 2nd.
He was at fault for the first goal and in some patches he looked as though he’d never played midfield at this level before. Play was easily passing him by.
We lost that game coz we didn’t keep possession and Lucas didn’t lose it much by comparison!
You are completely wrong when you say Lucas only passed sideways or backwards. I suggest you get a tape of the game or watch a rebroadcast… he played plenty of forward balls… even got into the box on a terrific little one-two, only for the pass not to make it back to him.
These sideways passes he is so often accused of, are usually made not coz that’s all the lad can do, but because no one makes a fuckin run to open up for another option, and the only players open for the pass are Carra and Skrtel.
Which could go some way to explaining why Gerrard himself played so many balls back to those two, who then just hoofed it hopefully upfield?
I dunno… but maybe?
Lets be honest, City played well… they were first to most balls, faster, moved more, and used their considerable weight better…
…but our performance made them look far better than they were!
But saying all that… I’ll also say this.
…I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again… games hang on moments.
We score just after that 2nd goal and we could easily have grabbed hold of that game and gone on to win 3-2…
…but when that flurry of chances were kept out, you could see the players thinking “what do we have to do, its not gonna be our day”
The shoulders dropped and Citeh were in control after that.
The penalty (which also had a hint of dive if you see the camera angle from the linesman’s position?) simply cemented the situation, and we never really looked like creating a decent opportunity after that.
We got it all wrong today… but we could still have got something out of it.
As it transpired, not only did we get nothing out of it, but we were made to look substandard in the process.
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 #427 |
rome77
Posted on August 24, 2010 @ 1:42 am
These are the facts no,
THE YANKS AND THE BANKS ARE F*CKING US OVER.
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 #428 |
axchoice
Posted on August 24, 2010 @ 2:01 am
Aitch #426,
You’ve illustrated what Rafa has said before, “it’s the small details that make the difference”.
Let’s see how the team can bounce back from this bad display.
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 #429 |
ykleong
Posted on August 24, 2010 @ 2:19 am
4-4-2 failed in this sense. Why? Coz we didn’t try this formation over the last couple of years and the players were out of sorts due to this.
And that’s Rafa’s fault!
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 #430 |
axchoice
Posted on August 24, 2010 @ 2:34 am
ykleong,
If you really meant what you’ve just said, then maybe Rafa is responsible for the recent floods in China and Pakistan.
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 #431 |
rome77
Posted on August 24, 2010 @ 3:06 am
Dont you know its his crap squad that cost 300 zillion, which incidently,caused the credit crunch. And his brutal man managment has left them all emotionally scarred.Rafa’s also the cause of global warming,and the arab israeli conflict to which i have proof.It was his fault Benayoun scored a hatrick against Besiktas when Rafa was playing his boring defensive football and luckily sneaked a 8-0.Ive also looked into the global warming thing and there is also proof namely that 13 of his players flew all the way to South Africa when only 4 of them made the final . Also he did send a hell of a lot of people all over Europe to places like Istanbul and Athens.Thats one big carbon footprint he’s responsible for and when those polar bears die that’ll be his fault too.PS Good old Roy played the proper Ingurlish man marking system against Man Sh*ty
As for Liverpools demise its not looking good but the foundations are in place to rebuild.
YNWA
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 #432 |
john constantine
Posted on August 24, 2010 @ 3:38 am
Sometimes you just have to hold up your hand and admit that we got beat by a much better team.All over the park to be quite frank in my opinion.Tevez and Adam Johnson were the difference.The relief of pressure the midfield and ultimately the defence obtain by the way they held up the ball up in our territory was the big difference for me.Torres was caught on numerous occasions(match fitness) and Eggnog (loved his confidence ) tried but found the muscle of city’s defence too much.Its going to be a long season of ups and downs but were used to it now.
YANKS OUT NOW!!
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 #433 |
john constantine
Posted on August 24, 2010 @ 3:45 am
quote from Roy Hodgson
Hodgson, meanwhile, refused to be concerned at the start to the season which sees the Anfield side having claimed just one point. “We are only two matches into the season. We had Arsenal in the first game which we had to play with 10 men [after Joe Cole's sending-off] and then a strong Manchester City side,” he said. “It’s a bit premature to start discussing how big the match is. Hopefully in the next 36 games we can take some points.”
i hope that was sarcasm.
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 #434 |
somnath07in
Posted on August 24, 2010 @ 4:04 am
Those who are comparing the defeat to what Rafa’s side would have done, i have got only one thing to say to them:
Stop looking back. Rafa is history. Fans here sometimes look too much into history and past glory.
We have ManUtd,Chelsea,ManCity,Spurs who are financially stronger than us. Apart from ManUtd the rest 3 have kept on improving.
We could have emulated Arsene Wenger at Arsenal but Rafa was kicked out by the owners. To be honest, recruiting quality talent at a young age and building a team around them remains our only hope.
For the time being, this team will struggle to finish 4th.
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 #435 |
elbmw
Posted on August 24, 2010 @ 4:25 am
That was one of the most painful matches I’ve watched in a long time!
The game reminded me a bit of the first half in Istanbul where we couldn’t cope with Kaka. Except that we couldn’t cope with any of the Citeh players and didn’t have a Rafa to bring on a Didi (and we dont have a Didi or a Mascherano for that matter) to control the game and enable us to push forward cohesively.
Of course there will be people who will say that its too early to judge Roy Hodgeson but in all honesty I think the honeymoon period came to a very abrupt end tonight…together with a huge dollop of reality! If nothing else I hope this serves as a rude awakening for purse-strings-low. I hope the imbecile realises what he’s done now.
Also, something I wanted to say for a couple of years. Yes we’re missing Alonso, Riise, Riera (arguably), Yossi, Crouch and of couse Sami. But no one seems to mention the player who was imho the real unsung hero of our defense; Alvaro Arbeloa who gave stability and solidity to our defense.
Johnson is great to watch going forward but defensively? Hes not a natural defender. The unfortunate thing is that his defensive short-cummings wouldnt be highlighted so much if we had a decent left-back to stabalise the defense so that he can attack. Just as Insuas defensive frailties wouldn’t be highlighted so much if we had a defensively solid right-back.
Having said that, any discussion on players and tactics is academic as the club is being slowly but steadily stripped of its assets and its dignity by the thieving indignant owners.
Which brings me to my final point; The flip side is that if we continue to under-perform then it should translate to less revenue for them thieves and will in turn speed up whatever conclusion will befall the club. In other words, whatever future asset stripping is planned, will have to happen sooner rather than later which would hasten the inevitability of insolvency and therefore conclude the ownership issue quicker.
On the other hand, judging by the number of “supporters” I’ve seen wearing the new kit recently I think that might all be a stretch of my imagination.
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 #436 |
klkop
Posted on August 24, 2010 @ 8:21 am
I think people here should stop the Rafa bashing. He was a good manager for us, but now has moved on. I think Rafa is the best manager we had in years, with him he brought along discpline and no nonense, meticulous planning. I think many involved in the team during his tenure would have learnt a lot from him. We were crap last night, but guess what, Roy has got the next game to get it right. We lost to a better team last night, period.
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 #437 |
Sam82
Posted on August 24, 2010 @ 8:38 am
Last few years, my confidence towards the team grew by the day, to the extent that I was able to watch in a relaxed mood, and not panic, as I trusted them. Even last season, as you’re bound to have bad day. I believed the dip’s temporary, and if change of ownership materialised and manager is properly supported, we’ll scale new heights. Alas, it’s not to be. Many believed change of manager is necessary as 1 of the reasons is losing the dressing room! Try telling that to Manure / Arse. Why r they able to stay at the top for so long ? Simple, by supporting the right manager!
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 #438 |
somnath07in
Posted on August 24, 2010 @ 8:41 am
And want to add one more thing…
If Torres is 50% fit(which is clearly evident from the way he played)why play him from the beginning?
4-5-1 at home against Arsenal worked fine. Why disturbing that against ManCiteh(Away)?
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 #439 |
Sam82
Posted on August 24, 2010 @ 8:42 am
2 managers – give us 2 different mentality / expectation. 1. we expect nothing but the best as he’s in that category. And now 2. we r happy if ship is steady, as that’s the standard expected from him. Even though team is still pretty much the same.
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 #440 |
5yearplan
Posted on August 24, 2010 @ 8:44 am
Truly demoralising, there are no positives to take from this match at all.
Firstly the tactics were wrong,now I’m no manager and I dont claim to know what would have been right, but the worrying thing here is that we could see it wasn’t working and yet Roy did nothing.
We seem to have put out a team that is ticking all the Sky sports news boxes, man to man marking, Gerrard in the midfield and 4-4-2 and we got slaughtered.
I want to make it clear that I am not talking about the scoreline here, we got slaughtered all over the pitch, our midfield was constantly overrun, our full backs were taken to the cleaners and our forwards were closed down with such ease it was embarrassing.
I hold no optimism at all for the coming season.
Every team that we play in the coming weeks is going to have the belief that we can be beaten, that is going to make it harder for us, our squad is diminishing with every week and our options are shrinking.
Roy is not the tactician that Rafa was, and I think that some of our fans have mistakenly underestimated the difficulties that Rafa worked under and haved failed to understand how much we overacheived.
We now have an average manager with a small playing squad and very few flair players, Benny onion has gone, Aquaman has been loaned out and Rafa has been plugging the gaps with free transfers and 2 million pound players.
Rafa may have been able to have maintained some semblance of us being a major force, I’m afraid this will be beyond Roy Hodgson’s limited ability’s.
We did what Sky news told us to do, we got rid of the hated foriegner and replaced him with the genial Englishman and now we have to face the consequences.
We are Liverpool, but I’m afraid what that means at the moment is that we are a club in crisis, with diminishing resources, an out of his depth manager and a board that has no conception of what the phrase “we are Liverpool” actually means
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 #441 |
axchoice
Posted on August 24, 2010 @ 8:45 am
klkop,
Totally agree with you!
Let’s hope the players can regroup and put better performances in the next few games.
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 #443 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 24, 2010 @ 9:02 am
Sorry lads, I can’t read through all them comments.
Gerry…
please tell the techy lads the comments section is knackered.
Bit like the team really.
Oh well, hopefully an arm around a few shoulders will sort that out for Thursday.
Fuck it, I can’t be arsed trying to be smartly sarcastic.
We’re fucked.
Talk Shite, Sly Sports and The Daily Manc are exstatic.
I hope the stupid bastards who aided and abetted them are happy now.
I take no consolation from saying I told you so.
It’s far too hurtful, you stupid, stupid kunts.
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 #444 |
Sam82
Posted on August 24, 2010 @ 9:05 am
The other day someone criticized the player(s) for waiting / expecting the manager to give instructions from the sideline, saying that these players shd know what to do in a game. If true then, all we need is get all the right players for the right positions , and it’s game on. Then, it doesn’t matter who the manager is. Now, try apply it to last night’s game.
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 #445 |
axchoice
Posted on August 24, 2010 @ 9:11 am
sam,
Are you referring to #81 by guinnessdrinker?
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 #446 |
Rafalution
Posted on August 24, 2010 @ 9:12 am
YK @ 429: I sincerely hope you are joking? Right?
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 #447 |
Sam82
Posted on August 24, 2010 @ 9:19 am
axchoice #445, right. Also, if i remember correctly, someone explained that when we used zonal marking to defend a corner, the setup is such that no player stands on the goal line. If true, for the 2nd goal last night, Tevez would have been offside!
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 #448 |
gazmaninaus
Posted on August 24, 2010 @ 9:22 am
Well I found some positives. Citeh were a very good team and if morale stays high they will go very well this year.
.
The first goal was a piece of brilliant passing finished well.
.
The second was a dodgy goalkeeping blight, could have caught it, could have still gone in.
.
Third was a soft penalty with the player already going down.
.
We forced their keeper into some amazing saves.
.
We had Nando back and starting to run after nearly 4 months of injuries.
.
Lucas had a wonderful game with some fantastic passes.
.
SG played about 20-30 good minutes and is starting to look fitter.
.
Overall the team played well, I don’t think they deserved the 3-0 scoreline. However I do think Citeh deserved to win, well done Citeh.
.
And considering the Mash episode, I thought we did really well.
.
I went into the game hoping for the best but expecting the worst, and although it ended in the worst, I still saw some positive signs. No-one was throwing the towel in.
.
I will say though we need some genuine pace out wide, of which we haven’t had in years. Johnson looked fantastic, his pace and skill, but look what they have paid over the last two years.
.
Back to the drawing board, chin up, look towards next game.
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 #449 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 24, 2010 @ 9:32 am
Gaz… Not being funny mate, but Behave.
We are bollacksed.
I’ve watched that team for neigh on 50 years.
I have never felt so hopeless as I do right now.
I really don’t want to over state it.
For half of me life, they were fantastic.
For half of me life they were shite.
I’m not just picking on Roy.
I’ve seen rubbish before.
I supported it with all my heart and will.
This….
Oh dear.
And sorry for having a go at you.
As I said, I haven’t read all the comments.
I’m sure there’s other people trying to put a positive spin on things and keeping up morale like yourself. But mate, let’s have it right…
We’re bollacksed.
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 #450 |
Arthur G. Posis
Posted on August 24, 2010 @ 9:53 am
Gaz you lost me after you wrote “Lucas had a wonderful game with some fantastic passes.”
As I said before, Lucas’s attitude is fantastic – but he just not up to it at this level. He was bullied all night long by De Jong and Touré. He was certainly not the reason why we lost last night – but I’m tired of people garnering him with faint praise such as ” he makes great runs into the box” etc etc.
As I’m pretty sure I mentioned last season – Lucas wouldn’t start in any of the following sides – Utd, Chelsea, City, Arsenal, Spurs, Everton and maybe even Villa. Poulsen is a far better option now that it seems Mascherano is taking is sulky, unprofessional ass to Barcelona
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 #451 |
sachem
Posted on August 24, 2010 @ 9:54 am
Wallace puts it well with the marking system there, and we all know the pundits are biased (and stupid) when they blame the zonal marking system when there’s errors within that, but individual players when there’s errors within man marking.
What it comes down to is that zonal marking is a superior system, but only if the players are 1. good enough defenders individually and 2. well-coordinated as a group. This was been proven on numerous occasions during Rafa’s tenure.
Last season there was a whole lot of changing around in the defensive line, causing more errors within the zonal marking system. Also, as I understand it, in set pieces Rafa employed and combination between man and zonal marking (never mentioned by any pundit) so the debate isn’t entirely as simple as most people make it out to be.
That we have just recently gone over to a out-and-out man marking system means there most likely will be more errors for a while than in both well-coordinated zonal and man marking systems.
I think 5yearplan is more or less spot on in #440. It really sums most of it up. However, I think Roy during the course of the season will rectify tactical shortcomings that are at the moment there for all to see. Liverpool is going through a transition-phase between to very different managers at the moment and will be for some time to come.
Unless we keep our best players and get new owners in, it won’t matter how well Roy does his job though. Then we will be fucked anyway.
And by the way, Arthur, I think you’re way off blaming Lucas for how we did yesterday evening. It’s so easy to point the finger towards that poor lad when we play badly (or are made to play badly) as a team. It might be silly picking our man of the match when everyone is under-performing, but Lucas did better than most of our other players. Having said that, we certainly could have used Mascherano’s abilities.
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 #452 |
Arthur G. Posis
Posted on August 24, 2010 @ 10:23 am
Sachem – please read my post properly before replying to me:
“He was certainly not the reason why we lost last night” – a line from my previous post about Lucas
He’s not good enough but I wasn’t blaming him for our defeat. I don’t know why people get so defensive about Lucas. I’m not saying he’s a rapist, devil incarnate or even a banker! He’s an average player – but then again perhaps we’re slowly becoming an average team.
But in anyways – Poulsen is a better option going forward
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 #453 |
An Linn
Posted on August 24, 2010 @ 10:33 am
Completley played off the park, but we are a team in transition and its only one game which doesn’t make a season.
If we remember back to last year at the same time we had a couple of bad games and we were told to unjerk those knees so I’m stating it again.
Now we were poor last night but no poorer than at the end of last season.
Why didn’t Roy change it around – when it was obvious to all and sundry that Yaya Toure was walking all over us (thought he had a great game last night) -well many times here we have argued the same thing about Rafa – Forentina springs to mind.
So lets keep those knees unjerking and judge the manager after 10-15 games
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 #454 |
Rafalution
Posted on August 24, 2010 @ 10:50 am
AnnLin, I think 10-15 games is too long to judge the manager?
I’m behind the team (obviously), but we can & do analyse a game on this blog, the players and manager. When we played shit under Rafa, there were a lot of comments. When we played shit last night, there are bound to be alot of comments. I agree, you cannot judge a manager after 2 games. But boy, was that a crap performance or what? Rafa was blamed when we played crap – not the players – and even though most of the team were sub-standard, I cannot for the life of me, work out why Roy went to Eastlands – against a skillful side like Citeh – and play 4-4-2? Can you? Anyone else help? Go to Citeh, and try & take a point off of them. After 10 mins, it was plain to see that our midfield was being overun. Don’t sit there with your head in your hands…do something! Plan B, or plan C. Deer in the headlights springs to mind.
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 #455 |
axchoice
Posted on August 24, 2010 @ 10:51 am
Arthur,
I don’t know what you mean by going forward. If it’s about contributing to our attack, Poulsen is also a defensive midfield, so there’s not much gain.
If you mean going forward in future, I’m puzzled that you believe a 30 year old midfielder nearing the end of his most productive years has more value to Liverpool in the next years than a 23 year old who is still improving and who has won the best player award in the Brazilian league.
I think I have to speak for Masch to a certain extent.
1) I believe many here have spoken of a good professional performance by Masch against Arsenal in the previous game.
2) He has not openly complained about not given chances to play (at West Ham) and playing out of position (last few games of last season at right back). In fact, he didn’t even complain about life in England although many here know his wife isn’t happy.
3) In fact, he has been putting in consistently good performances for Liverpool, except for the period from beginning of last season until after Argentina narrowly qualified for the World Cup.
He is given 2 chances (last season and this) to play for Barca incidentally La Liga Champions + Champs League winners and semi-finalists for last 2 years, a team with a good nucleus of the World Cup winning squad, in a country where he and his wife have no problems speaking the language. He’s missed the first boat (maybe due to Rafa’s persuasion) and now the chance comes again.
Can anyone tell me how any Spanish speaking, non fan-of-Liverpool-since-young professional footballer cannot be tempted by such an offer?
Please don’t slag him as some unprofessional Judas
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 #456 |
McrRed
Posted on August 24, 2010 @ 11:05 am
It annoys me when people continually slate (Lucas) players for passing sideways and back. It shows a lack of understanding of how the midfield roles operate.
Makalele at his best did short back and sides passes and broke up play and he was acknowledgeed as the best in the business.
Tevez played well for City last night and early all his passes were short back and sides. The couple of passes forward he tried were unsuccessful:
http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/08/23/man-city-3-0-liverpool-hodgsons-4-4-2-completely-outplayed/#more-4076
On that site there is an analysis of the role of the ‘deep-lying’ midfielder. Worth a read. And let’s stop equating short passes with own-goals fer chrissakes…
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 #457 |
Arthur G. Posis
Posted on August 24, 2010 @ 11:14 am
Sachem – I meant going forward – in the sense of this season. I’m aware that Poulsen is 30 – but I think he’s a better option for this season.
McRed: Lucas is no Makalele, to compare the two is laughable
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 #458 |
McrRed
Posted on August 24, 2010 @ 11:50 am
Arthur, not comparing the two, just saying that to slate any player for those kind of passes is simplistic…
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 #459 |
McrRed
Posted on August 24, 2010 @ 12:24 pm
Re Masch.
I don’t see why any want away player that refuses to play is simply stopped wages for the period they refuse to play.
We hold their registration. They don’t move until we say so.
Like the guy and all but being held to ransom like that…
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 #460 |
gazmaninaus
Posted on August 24, 2010 @ 12:28 pm
Rumours in Italy claiming Aqualani failed his medical at Juve, further tests to be conducted before a contract is signed. Well lads he could be back.
|
 #461 |
McrRed
Posted on August 24, 2010 @ 12:36 pm
Yesterday’s Twitter saying:
Been told Masch definitely DID refuse to play, poulsen wasnt fit enough so RH had to change plans and switch to 442 this morning.
|
 #462 |
burgerman
Posted on August 24, 2010 @ 12:37 pm
Same problems as last season.Need Diarra,right mid and striker.Torres in midfield!.Why doesn’t Rafa buy AQUI?.NO CHANCE OF TOP 4.
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 #463 |
guinnessdrinker
Posted on August 24, 2010 @ 1:33 pm
well that was truly shite no positives really to take other than were only two games in and many teams start slow then grow into the season lets keep the knees in check please.
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 #464 |
An Linn
Posted on August 24, 2010 @ 1:37 pm
Rafalution,
I think after say 10 games you can have a fairly good idea of what the manager is all about – might only take 5, hopefully last nights performance wasn’t it.
Why on earth did he opt for a 442 – who knows but maybe he wanted to play Mascherano but he was off sulking somewhere, would have liked to see him verus Toure.
Don’t know about Poulson maybe not ready yet, who knows.
I would prefer it if we could play either a 442 or a 451 without the players getting confused as against the lower teams a 442 might be better.
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 #466 |
ykleong
Posted on August 24, 2010 @ 3:09 pm
Axchoice, Rafalution
Yes, I was kidding and it was meant in a sarcastic way….it was extremely painful watching the game and Roy seems to have no clue at all on what to do. Why wait till 77mins to make the first change? I remember Rafa got slated for making changes ‘late’ at around the 60th. Please don’t get me wrong. I certainly back Roy just like I’ve backed Rafa. It’s just sickening of how the media is treating this….
YNWA!
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 #467 |
sachem
Posted on August 24, 2010 @ 3:42 pm
burgerman
What the hell are you on about?
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 #468 |
knight
Posted on August 24, 2010 @ 3:54 pm
Money talks. Man Shitty bought Stg 130 million just this one season alone. That’s more than the entire five seasons of total purchases Rafa has made.
Why Alan Johnson was not featured in the England teams I do not know. That guy just ran rings around Skrtel, Agger and even Jova.
Our players did not play as if they want to win. Not a heart-throbbing display by us. Not a good sight to watch.
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 #469 |
sachem
Posted on August 24, 2010 @ 4:03 pm
Arthur
Well, you are blaming Lucas for how we did last night, otherwise you wouldn’t list him among other “problems” we had in the game.
I didn’t say you named him as solely responsible for the fact that we lost, but you did name him as a significant part of the problem, which I think is unfair based on how Lucas played last night. That is, compared to the performances of the rest of the players.
From what I’ve seen of Poulsen so far, your assertion that he is better than Lucas going forward just doesn’t make any sense to me. Perhaps we’ve been watching different games.
|
 #470 |
Arthur G. Posis
Posted on August 24, 2010 @ 4:11 pm
Sachem,
It’s simple. Lucas is not good enough for a team that in 2008/09 wanted to win the league. He wasn’t good enough in 2009/10 for a team that initially thought it could win the league but then just wanted to finish in top 4. And he’s still not good enough for a team in 2010/11 that dreamily hopes it will get into the top 4 but will probably have to be happy with a cup run and a hope that we finish ahead of Everton!
From what I saw of Poulsen Vs Trabzonspor, I think he is a more aggressive, more mobile, more experienced and all round better player than Lucas. Not saying he’s a Roy Keane/ Zidane hybrid – just better than our blonde Brazilian.
so yeah Lucas was ONE OF the reasons last night – but there were lots more….see my post # 416
|
 #471 |
sachem
Posted on August 24, 2010 @ 4:20 pm
I completely disagree with what you say there Arthur, but I don’t think this is the time to take this discussion any further. We obviously have different points of reference in this case.
Paul Tomkins has written an article about the start of Roy’s tenure as manager of LFC and last night’s game. It’s available for free.
http://tomkinstimes.com/2010/08/positively-negative-negatively-positive/
One thing that really bothered me last night about the commentary/punditry was when some idiot before the game said it was nice to see Roy coming out with a “positive” 4-4-2 formation, in contrast to the “negative” lineup Rafa used to pick.
|
 #473 |
knight
Posted on August 24, 2010 @ 5:06 pm
Liverpool defender Sotiris Kyrgiakos is the latest player to be linked with a move to Juventus. Article below:
Liverpool defender Sotiris Kyrgiakos is the latest defender who’s being linked with a move to Serie A side Juventus. A report in Corriere dello Sport claims that La Vecchia Signora are considering making a move for the Greek international before the end of the transfer window.
Juventus coach Luigi Del Neri is eager to add some more depth to his defence and the Turin side have been linked with players such as Andrea Barzagli, Salvatore Bocchetti and Thomas Manfredini in the past couple of weeks.
However, Juve have now apparently turned their attention to the relatively cheap Kyrgiakos. The 31-year-old defender joined Liverpool from AEK Athens in the summer of 2009, but has so far failed to secure regular first team action at the English side.
Kyrgiakos’ current contract with Liverpool runs until the summer of 2011 and the Reds are supposedly ready to cash in on the defender during this transfer window in order to prevent him from leaving on a free transfer next year. (Goal.com)
If this rumour is true then Liverpool could be set to offload reliable defender Sotiris Kyrgiakos very soon. The player has proved to be one of Liverpool’s best acquisitions in recent years, providing a good option in the centre of defence.
It is yet another possible deal between Liverpool and Juventus, who seem to be developing some sort of relationship regarding transfers. Aquilani and Poulsen have swapped clubs, and David Trezeguet has also been linked with a move to Anfield.
Can Liverpool afford to lose any more players? Who would replace Kyrgiakos?
Damn!
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 #474 |
axchoice
Posted on August 24, 2010 @ 5:07 pm
ykleong #466,
You got me then
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 #475 |
rome77
Posted on August 24, 2010 @ 5:11 pm
Arthur if Poulsen isnt up to 2 games in 8 days what f*cking use his he.
The first rule of picking your team is who’s fit and available followed by then picking the best player of those available .Lucas is always available and he’s better than Poulsen.
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 #476 |
KeithSA
Posted on August 24, 2010 @ 5:30 pm
Some of these comments make me laugh outright. Keep positive, its just two games. Reality check lads, it not that we lost it was the manner of the loss. We had just 37% possession and looked dreadful all over the park.The comments from Roy were even worse, “I don’t think we deserved to lose by 3.
Of course, with the individual talent in the squad we are bound to create chances, but the problem for most parts was just that, individual performances and zero team performance. There was no structure, no organization, it looked like they where strangers on the pitch and all the manager did was sit, no trying to reorganize, no trying to shuffle the deck, no instruction to the players, he just sat there looking bemused and clapped and gave a thumbs up at the few chances we created. Really inspiring stuff that was.
The ludicrous statement about Lucas is beyond me. We where overrun and outnumbered all night, thanks to Roy, of course the midfield by definition will struggle. We play the youngster Ngog as the second striker, yet loan out Aquilani so he can get playing time, Maxi on the bench and I could go on and on but what is the point.
Be careful what you wish for some of us said and by fuck we have just got that in abundance.
Last note did anybody notice that City where using zonal marking and two holding midfielder and one up front?
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 #477 |
Aitch
Posted on August 24, 2010 @ 6:26 pm
So what we know from 2 games is that Lucas is not good enough and would not get into the Scum, Chav, Arse, City, Spurs, or ….errr…. Everton????.
But conversely, we apparently know that based on his performance in ONE game Poulsen IS good enough and WOULD START in any of those sides?????
“He was bullied all night long by De Jong and Touré.”
…err… are you sure you watched the right game? Coz in the game I watched it was Steven Gerrard… you know… they guy who is good enough for LFC and WOULD start in any of those other sides… that got “bullied all night long by De Jong and Touré.”
If any player needed replacing yesterday, it was SG in the middle. Coz he left Lucas to do all the work, not the other way around.
(Actually that’s not true… the first player who needed replacing, as LB pointed out, was Jovanovic, who just stunk up the joint. Too early to be marking him as a “Vorronin failure” I think, but he should not have stayed on.)
But taking Ngog off and moving SG into the hole, and replacing him in midfield with Poulsen… now that might have stemmed the tide…
… and if it was a double sub on 60 minutes with Babel coming on for Jovanovic…
… well that could have changed the game… maybe???
But You simply cannot point a finger at Lucas and say “he isn’t good enough for Liverpool” when he was one of the few players who actually played well.
I get that you don’t like him Arthur… I get that you don’t rate him…
… but you chose your words with very poor timing… coz if his performance yesterday is what judges him to be “not good enough for Liverpool”
…and that performance was better than those delivered by SG, Jovanovic, Kuyt, Ngog, Torres, Agger, and Johnson…
…. Then “fitness aside” what the fuck does that say about our team?
Those wishing to make the point that Lucas is not good enough for LFC, need to wait until all those other players listed, put in a better 90 minutes than him… then make your case…
… unfortunately for your cause, though… that hasn’t happened much since the end of the 08/09 season.
… and it certainly wasn’t the case yesterday.
As with last season… there are a lot of people that do not want to look beyond something they can easily point their finger to.
Roy Hodgson is not the reason 11 players… who either frequently, or at worst, have on occasion played for their countries… simply cannot seem to muster a cohesive 90 minutes of football.
I thought Steven Gerrard was one of the few English players taken to South Africa, who came back with his dignity intact. And by that I mean he was one of the few players who performed to an acceptable level.
While he wasn’t “vintage SG” at the World Cup, he did at least look like a player for whom the change of scenery/pace was a breath of fresh air from the season just suffered and I had hopes that he’d put last season behind him and would start this season like the “old Stevie”.
Sadly, on yesterday’s display, we got the “old Stevie” of last season… not the true “old Stevie”.
Now again… let me be clear… I’m not picking on him, I’m using him to illustrate a point.
Last season was about 11 players on the field NOT delivering the goods.
It was about 11 players capable of so, so much more, simply not playing to that standard.
Last season was about substitutes, whoever they were, and at whatever time they were introduced, making little or no impact when introduced into games.
Its only 2 games and far too early to be pointing fingers…
… but those fingers shouldn’t be getting pointed at Roy … in the manner they were at Rafa…
… and they shouldn’t be pointed at “the ususal suspects”
As I continually pointed out last season… games change on moments.
Against Arsenal, a ball came back off the post, hit Reina and went in for a late equalizer.
Against Citeh, a ball came back off the post, hit Hart in the back of the head…
…but instead of going in, it just bounced free…
That ball goes in, immediately after going 0-2 down and its 1-2 and a different game.
…with the ball ping-ponging about in the box, Hart then gets up and makes 2 point blank saves, one of which was from Torres for fucks sake…
That ball doesn’t go in and the players start thinking “what do we have to do” … “this isn’t our night”
… and forget the “new dawn” of a new season… its back to last season and the deflated “here we go again” shoulder drops…
… both on the field and in the stands…
The time to lynch Roy is when he fields 11 players who play out of their skins, but we lose because of his tactics.
That hasn’t happened yet.
So don’t do to him what you did to Rafael Benitez.
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 #478 |
Arthur G. Posis
Posted on August 24, 2010 @ 6:49 pm
Saying Lucas wouldn’t start in those teams I mentioned Aitch, does not by definition mean Poulsen would get into those teams! Talk about putting words into other people’s mouths! You’re right though, I don’t rate Lucas, never have. And just because torres, gerrard et al have under-performed recently, doesn’t all of a sudden make Lucas a better player than them. This forum’s crazy love-in for Lucas continues unabated!
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 #479 |
sachem
Posted on August 24, 2010 @ 8:11 pm
Aitch
I agree with a lot of the things you say, but I actually think Roy’s tactics last night can be put into question, both because of and aside from how the individual players performed.
He chose to play a 4-4-2 formation. Since he’s the manager, he has all the right to do this without being criticized for the formation alone. Some like it, some don’t. Personally I think the 4-4-2 system is out-of-date, but if it can still be used efficiently, then fine, I have no complaints. The problem is mate, it didn’t work at all. The reasons have all been mentioned in here I believe.
Firstly, we were outnumbered in midfield. That problem can be counteracted in different ways, but it would seem Roy had no solutions or didn’t have the right player types to counteract. He’s used 4-4-2 for most of his career, so he certainly knows the ups and downs.
This leads to the second problem, which is the fact that he used Kuyt and Jovanovic as out-and-out wingers. Both were completely inefficient in these roles. For that reason, I think it’s unfair to blame the players, but Roy should probably have known it wasn’t going to work.
Thirdly, N’Gog and Torres filled the roles as striker duo. Two very similar players in their when it comes to strengths and weaknesses (though, needless to say, Torres’ strengths are stronger and, when at his best, the weaknesses less weak). Clearly inefficient from the very start of the game. Should Roy have predicted it? Probably.
Fourthly, why not use a left back (or at least a natural fullback) in the left back position? Agger gets nowhere near his full capacity when employed as a fullback, and I agree with those who say even Martin Kelly would probably have done better out there. In my opinion, Roy should have played Agger instead of Skrtel next to Carra.
That’s what I can think of at the moment. We don’t know the full details behind the Aquilani story, but if it was Roy’s call to let him go, that is clearly also a strange decision. As far as I can tell, this is all valid criticism. There might be circumstances that forced Roy into making some of these decisions I’ve laid out, however.
Still, I don’t think the poor performance last night was entirely a result of individual players poor attitudes or laziness. We certainly were unlucky when Joe Hart made a couple of great saves and the ball not bouncing our way. But I do think we had tactical problems as well.
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 #480 |
Aitch
Posted on August 24, 2010 @ 8:16 pm
Sorry Arthur but you are wrong. You cannot have it both ways.
The way you worded your post at #450 … your intention may very well not have been to state that Poulsen would walk into another top side, but I’m sorry, the manner in which you worded it definitely implied it.
“I’m pretty sure I mentioned last season – Lucas wouldn’t start in any of the following sides – Utd, Chelsea, City, Arsenal, Spurs, Everton and maybe even Villa. Poulsen is a far better option now that it seems Mascherano is taking is sulky, unprofessional ass to Barcelona”
You want to postulate that Poulsen is a better midfield option than Lucas…
…by all means put that idea forward and lets discuss it…
But the discussion can’t even get started if the basis of your premise is to suggest that Lucas wouldn’t walk into another top 6 side… coz then the argument becomes neither can Poulsen… not who’s the better option.
You also base your opinion of Poulsen as a better option on one… ONE… outing against Trabzon.
Yet refuse to accept that Lucas has been one of our better players for most of last season and looks to be continuing that form.
Lucas is obviously going to suffer from judgment made in his early years with us, when he didn’t do well… I accept that…
… that is where most of the argument against the lad comes from…
…but there’s been plenty of water under the bridge since then…and he has done more than enough last season… in a time when senior players were doing little to help him… to require a reassessment.
And what exactly do you mean by “just because Torres, Gerrard et al have under-performed recently, doesn’t all of a sudden make Lucas a better player than them.”
It’s a great philosophical point to make, but philosophy of football doesn’t win you games… actual application of that philosophy does…
If Torres and Gerrard play like shit and Lucas plays well… then it DOES in fact MAKE HIM A BETTER PLAYER THAN THEM!
That is actually what “better player” means… someone who plays better than the other guy!
What good is reputation, if for 90 minutes you don’t do the business.
These are not philosophical discussions.
Of course Steven Gerrard is World Class, as is Torres… to argue otherwise is foolish…
…but neither of them are firing on all cylinders right now.
Form IS temporary and Class IS permanent… and neither is over the hill, and will come good again, hopefully sooner rather than later…
There is no argument that “on paper” they are better players than Lucas…
But it does us no fuckin good whatsoever that “on paper” SG and FT are better players than Lucas…
…if Lucas outplays them for 90 minutes… he’s a better player on the day!
That is simply inarguable.
The better player… is the player that plays better than the other guy!
Which WAS the case yesterday!
Which was the case for large parts of last season.
I can’t say whether Poulsen is a good midfielder coz I simply haven’t seen enough of him…
… but it is premature in the extreme to suggest he is “better than Lucas” on the basis of one good performance…particularly when you seem so intent on ignoring good performances from Lucas, simply coz you’ve already made your mind up about the kid.
The argument you are making, whether you intended to or not, is that Poulsen should have replaced our best midfielder… ON THE DAY.
You did so on the evidence of one performance.
If you want to argue that Poulsen should have played, coz he “looked the biz” in that one outing… then argue for him to be played alongside Lucas with SG being pushed into the hole.
That is an idea we can discuss… coz it’s a philosophical argument, borne out by reputation AND the evidence of what we actually saw in the game… based on Lucas performing well, SG having been good in the hole in the past and Poulsen looking good in his first game…
Maybe that should be our line-up in the next game?
The only argument you could make against that … prior to kick off… would be that SG has looked a bit off the boil… but he’s SG so he could come good and kick on fro the season tomorrow, so you chance that…
… then if any of them play like shit for 90 minutes we can reassess that argument.
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 #481 |
Aitch
Posted on August 24, 2010 @ 8:47 pm
Sachem I think some of those points are fair to make… but…
We didn’t concede a goal on 12 minutes coz we were getting overrun in midfield… it was just one of those stupid defensive mistakes…
SG actually looked at Milner moving into that space and let him go, he had time to react and didn’t until the pass was made.
For the first 10 minutes that was an even game. In fact, we’d gone up their end a few times, only for Torres and Ngog to try to dribble 3 defenders when a pass was on.
The simple fact of the matter is, when you concede a goal after 12 minutes, the original plan has gone out the window.
But having said that, even though shoulders dropped a bit, we still held our own in midfield and got forward for the subsequent 5 minutes or so… but again… the final ball was never there.
At 1-0 up after 15 minutes City to their credit settled it down and played possession football, and from that point on the first half became mostly about us chasing shadows.
But that wasn’t strictly coz we were playing 4-4-2
Football is a fluid game…
4-4-2, 4-5-2, 4-2-3-1… these are all a philosophical approaches.
… but no matter how you start or line-up, pretty much every team changes, as the game develops…
…a player drops deep, a player drifts wide, a player makes a run forward from deep
… teams that don’t do this usually don’t do well.
Last season Rooney started almost every Scum game as the lone-striker in a 4-5-1
… but almost all his goals came about when he dropped deep for the ball, then made a run, or slid out wide, or dropped deep as an attack was developing, then ran from deep into the box.
I don’t know how many people caught it yesterday, but for about the first 20 minutes or so… Torres was actually dropping into the hole… if you get a chance to watch it again… watch it.
Now whether or not this is a good idea is a separate argument from the argument that we lost coz we played 4-4-2… since we really didn’t.
Also, you argue that Kuyt and Jovanovic shouldn’t have been played as wide men.
But I’m sorry, that sorta ignores 2 facts…
1. Jova scored quite a few from a wide left position last season in France AND he often plays there for his country.
2. Kuyt helped Holland to the World Cup Final… playing mostly wide left .
As I said in my above exchange with Arthur, whether or not they should be played there is a philosophical argument.
How well they did when actually played there yesterday… well yeah… they were both shite weren’t they?
Yesterday we managed to get to half-time…it wasn’t looking good… and we were getting outplayed and chasing the ball.
I’d agree we needed to make a change then and there.
But we have to be honest and say, there are so few managers who will actually make that decision.
Seriously how often do you see a manager make a change at half-time?
Not often.
So he didn’t… and we conceded a 2nd goal. I don’t know that we did so coz we were getting overrun in midfield, but maybe we did.
But we did respond after that goal. In fact we then played the best 10 minutes of the whole game… but when we hit the post and had that goalmouth scramble …
… it again gave momentum and belief to Citeh.
THAT was the moment that we needed a ballsy Double Substitution.
We’ll all differ on what that would have been, but my decision at that point would have been Babel for Jova, take Ngog off, move SG in the hole and put Poulsen on to shore up midfield.
(when Babel did come on, he made an immediate impact… had he come on earlier, it might have helped keep heads from dropping? All ifs and buts, but there you go?)
I’m not too pleased with Hodgson’s reaction to be honest… but I’ll not vilify Roy for it either.
I tried to make sense of, and understand Rafa’s decisions, … and I’ll extend our new man the same courtesy so few gave Rafa!
After Hart made that double save… then yeah, we simply got overrun.
They believed it was their day.
We seemed to accept it was not.
We didn’t change anything.
They grew in confidence, we seemed to lose ours.
Their 3rd was coming and was icing on the cake.
I know some are insisting that City were just the better team on the day and I accept that…
I do… but I also think that if they were that good, then frankly they should have taken us for 4, 5, or 6…
…coz honestly we were showing our bellies like a puppy at that point.
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 #482 |
KeithSA
Posted on August 24, 2010 @ 10:07 pm
Atich I admire your loyalty and in most cases I support what you say, however Roy picked the team and the formation that was totally unsuitable for the occasion.
I hear you when you say that we started well and I thought at the time we are pouring forward, leaving gaping holes at the back and bang they scored. We where to loose to gun ho for a game of this magnitude so early in the season away from home using a formation that we are not used to and that has proven outdated in the modern game. Against weaker team no problem. We play the formation the guys are used to at home against Arsenal then go to City and play like school boys on prom night and we got a spanking.
He plays a centre back at left back with two other left back available, not to mention an ever impressive Kelly. The Tomkins assertion that he mistrust youth has a certain amount of truth to it. We are selling youngsters and bringing in older players. We had an effective and settled formation for the last 5 years, despite last year setback with all the injuries why throw that away when you are still trying to get a sense of the players and the team and how they play, especially in a game of this magnitude.
Playing Ngog as the second striker next to a half fit Torres was naïve at best stupidity at worst. However the biggest factor for my criticism was that he did nothing to change it when it was apparent to all and sundry we have been out thought and totally out played. You can blame the players to a certain extent but if you have the wrong personal and formation you get over run. Hence Rafa turning it around in Istanbul when we got the proverbial hiding because he got it wrong in the first half.
I fear for the worst from what I have seen so far. Maybe he learns from this, however we need new owners and a new manager fast before all the work Rafa has put in building the foundation are totally destroyed. The rumours of people unhappy and linked with moves away are getting very disturbing
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 #483 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 24, 2010 @ 10:30 pm
Aitch, although we started the game brightly I sensed trouble after about 6-7 minutes because whenever we lost the ball in City’s half they had oceans of space to play controlled possession football under no pressure and got into our half with ease, applying pressure on our defense with seemingly little effort. Its been a long time I’ve watched us play and seen such large gaps for the opposition to exploit.
I predicted 0-0 before I saw the line ups. I feared a disaster was on the way when I saw the line up.
Other than the formation. The other thing that played a large part of our downfall, was our left side. Jovanovic and Agger. It looked to me as if they had no understanding whatsoever both going forward and defending. Richards and Johnson made them look like novices. It was like watching Torben Piecnic, Stig Inge Byonebey and the like. Woeful. Yet Roy did sweet fuck all to attempt to change it.
Why is our best centre back playing left back? Where was Aurellio? Why has Insua been totally frozen out?
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 #484 |
rome77
Posted on August 24, 2010 @ 11:02 pm
I’m thinking Aggers playing at LB so our uneducated supporters start saying he’s shit get rid.
Or maybe its just to keep with the myth that Insua is a waste of space,
before attempting to sell him again.
Which will probably be done while we’re all watching that bouncing ball on Thursday.
Last Thursday was supposed to be a 5-0 feelgood performance providing a good day to bury bad news.
So whats going to happen this Thursday.
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 #485 |
Aitch
Posted on August 24, 2010 @ 11:10 pm
Keith, I’m not suggesting we blindly “support Roy”
… on the contrary…
I’m suggesting we do not blindly condemn him.
I see what you are saying, but I think you are mixing several different arguments there…
… granted some are related… some hive a direct impacton the field, some have a more indirect impact on the field.
We can have arguments about 4-4-2 versus 4-5-1 or whatever until we are blue in the face…
… but if the players selected don’t play well… then it doesn’t matter if it’s a “system they are used to” or some uber-21st Century Experimental 3-2-3-1-1-1 system they’ve never played before…
I don’t even like Baseball, stupid fuckin game, but I just watched Bull Durham recently …
…and to quote Bull Durham “you catch the ball, you throw the ball, you hit the ball”
Transposed to footy…
… you trap the ball, you kick the ball…
… you pass the ball, you shoot the ball…
… as was the case all too often last season (when we played the tried and true 4-5-1 that we were used to) we just didn’t trap the ball, pass the ball, or shoot the ball very well…
… and against Citeh, yet again, we looked like “a bunch of lollygaggers.”
Senior players yet again, didn’t show up for this game.
Seriously… forget tactics for one minute and rate the players out of 10
I’ve argued Lucas was our Man-of-the-Match, but I wouldn’t give him more than 7 out of 10 and that’s generous.
I’d rate quite a few lower than 5 though… and Stevie and Nando (granted not fit, but nonetheless) would be amongst them.
I would agree with you that Agger is not a left back…
…even when some were praising the job he did there at the end of last season, I could see his deficiencies. He got skinned as much as Insua did for fucks sake, but he’s Agger the next Alan Hansen, so fuck it “he should play left back and we’ll win the league” …
… but it seldom really works like that does it?
But come on, let’s be honest here… do you really think that Insua, or Aurellio would have done much better against Adam Johnson?
The lad was on fire! He was hands-down the overall Man of the Match by a Country Mile.
We double-teamed him and he still got crosses in.
No I’m sorry, we didn’t lose to City because we played 4-4-2,
or because Jovanovic and Kuyt aren’t “natural wide men”,
or because we played a center-back at left back
(and incidentally Agger may be better than Skrtel on paper, but as I argued above, Skrtel played a better game than Agger, out of position or not)
…we lost due to incidents that occurred during the run of play, over 90 minutes,
and due to quality players, not playing a quality game…
…and overall, coz our 11 played worse than their 11.
Had Roy played 4-5-1 … would the players who played poorly have played better?
Coz they didn’t last season.
Now granted, that was last season, and in making that statement I’m reducing the argument to a far too simplistic soundbyte.
It’s a new day and last season should have no bearing on this one…
…just as the previous season’s performances and 2nd place finish had no bearing on the performances and final position of last season…
…but we haven’t started well, and its not simply 4-5-1 over 4-4-2
… it’s the players played in that 4-5-1 and the performance they put in over the 90 minutes.
Its far too early to be condemning Roy.
Things are transpiring backstage to which we are not privy.
He’s managing, as Rafa did, with one hand tied behind his back.
Its fucked but it is what it is… welcome to LFC 2010.
|
 #486 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 24, 2010 @ 11:29 pm
Put simply we’re in for a long season of mediocrity. If we finish higher that 6th it’ll be a surprise. The takover situation needs sorting out. Otherwise we’ll just turn into a mid table side.
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 #487 |
elbmw
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 12:29 am
I agree with Aitch that I dont think Insua or Aurelio would have done any better against Richards. Insua has some defensive frailties that he will need to overcome to be able to handle the power of Richards and the pace of AJohnson and Aurelio isn’t match fit yet.
AJohnson got a couple of crosses in but Richards totally dominated both Agger and Jova. To be honest he fouled Agger for their 2nd and bullied him the whole night.
Despite the fact that Agger isn’t a left back his defending both on one on one and in the air was quite poor. His positioning seemed OK, which is what you’d worry about when playing a center back as a full back, it was just that he couldn’t cope with Richards’ strength.
I thought that Soto would have been a better option then ninja in the middle as Citeh looked a big threat when crossing the ball into the box. I also thought that Cara couldn’t cope with Tevez too, who held the ball up very well and brought their midfield into play with far too much ease.
Only Torres and Jova tried to go past their marker and Torres got fowled and Jova earned a corner (I think). Having said that Gerrard did have a 10 minute spell where he was able to shake off his marker and get a couple of shots away
Defensively, I thought that Gerrard got dominated by Toure and Lucas who made himself available more than most in midfield kept trying to slot the ball into Kuyt and Ngog continuously and as a result the Citeh CBs knew that and got their foot in almost every time thereby it made our forwards look shite too.
In fact I thought the whole team got bullied and they all looked depressed because of it.
I think we’re going to be discussing these issues quite a lot for the foreseeable future, until we get shot of the two k*nts!
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 #488 |
Aitch
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 12:52 am
8 Days left until the transfer window closes…
Today’s Best rumor-du-jour…
Insua and Kyrgiakos in trade to Juventus for David Trezeguet
(if Juve keep this up, they’re gonna have to trade in their stripes for a red kit!)
…and…
Renowned deal-broker Keith Harris claims an overseas buyer is considering making an offer of between £400million and £500million for Liverpool. “The overseas buyer we represent has completed due diligence. A huge amount of work has been done,” he said.
…err… would someone explain to me how they’ve already completed due diligence, if they haven’t even made an offer yet???
Its gonna be a long season indeed!
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 #489 |
john constantine
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 3:00 am
aitch i agree on most but red in the face makes me feel better,
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 #490 |
Kiwi_Mark_LFC
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 3:11 am
Aitch – most people complete due diligence before making an offer…thats the general way it works in the business world…no-one makes an official offer to buy a business before going through the books…
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 #491 |
5yearplan
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 7:50 am
I am willing to accept the argument that the players didn’t play well, but isn’t Roy supposed to be the great man manager, surely its his major talent and yet still individual performances are well below par, and I am reliably informed by the media in general that he is a great organiser and yet we looked as organised as a robot in a magnet factory.
No I’m sorry the simple fact of the matter is that Rafa had us performing above par and now our weaknesses are not being hidden by using the right tactics, in fact on monday they were exposed by using the wrong tactics.
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 #492 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 8:12 am
Well, I see Rafa v Roy wages on.
It’s a bit unfair really.
Anyone with an ounce of a footballing brain
knew this was on the cards.
Yeah, I suppose that’s another,
you were warned.
But it’s too late for that.
I know people will want to defend Roy.
That’s right and admirable and I’ll always
do it publically.
But here in private with fellow reds,
I have to tell the truth…
My heart sinks a little everytime I see the man.
He is not good enough.
This is getting clearer with every game.
The poor fella looked like a rabbit caught in
the headlights the other night.
He just didn’t know what to do.
Sadly, I have to agree with LB.
That’s happening a bit too often nowadays.
I like the odd argument to liven things up.
But the man is spot on…
a long painful season of mediocrity lays ahead.
I hope to God Roy proves me wrong.
But I fear for him and so us.
Torres, off in January?
If he has any sense, he will be.
And I think he will.
He’s been conned into staying anyway, by
lies about huge investment.
The lad is 26.
He’s a loyal and lovely lad.
He’s a true red.
But he wants to finish his career with some
medals.
I for one won’t blame him, if he walks.
This shit about he wouldn’t play for
Rafa, is blatantly true.
His last interview, a few weeks ago,
proves that.
He likened Rafa to a second father
and praised how he had improved him as a player.
Can you see anyone saying that about Roy?
We have reverted to our old ways.
Roys has played 2 games, both under
different systems.
Under Rafa, at our best, we played that
high tempo pressing game.
We marked zonally – proven now to be the
most effective system.
We had the two sitting players, also now
proven to be the best system in the modern game.
We defended high up the feild.
The midfielders stayed compact, so as to
recieve short passes from the defence.
The wide men pushed on and in on
the opposing defence, while the fullbacks
added the width.
NGog and Torres are both more suited
to one upfront, with support from
someone in the hole.
It wasn’t always pretty, but it was
darn effective and hard to break done.
City picked us off like absolute mugs.
It could have been far more embarrasing
and dear old Uncle Roy didn’t have a
clue how to stop it or change it.
This is getting long so, I’ll finish on this
and I qoute Roy….
“Daniel Agger is the most natural
left back we have at the club.”
Whoa, hang on a moment Roy.
You brought back Aurelio.
And you still have Insua.
Tell Purslow to fuck off an play the lad.
Oooops. Sorry.
That’s right, Roy’s here to steady ships
not rock them.
Shame that.
|
 #493 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 8:27 am
Just saw this…
This shit about he wouldn’t play for
Rafa, is blatantly true.
Obviously it should have said, Untrue.
I think Gerrard will stay, as I think
he is now managing the team…
picking formations and positions for himself
and other players.
I do think Roy is a bit smarter
than the Kamikazee pilot we saw the other
night.
Our left flank was abysmal.
I don’t think Roy would have played
an untested wide man and a centre back
in tandem at Fulham.
I think he would have played two
sitting in central mid with one
pushing on as and when he could.
He would not have defended so deep.
At least I hope he wouldn’t have
done.
There is now acres between our defence
and midfield, which means more and more
aimlessly hoofed balls from the centre
backs, while our one ball player is
stuck out wide, not really sure whether
he should drop back or push on.
Rafa would have sorted that in seconds.
What did Roy do?
Well, I’m sorry to say but it’s true…
Nothing.
When he wasn’t sat on the bench
with his head buried in his hands,
he stood on the touchline waving his arms
around in meaningless gestures,
shouting “Come on lads, get stuck in.”
There’s the media’s (and idiot fans)
wishes for good old English passion sorted
out, but what else does it provide…
Nothing.
Nada.
Zilch.
Zero.
Oh but tell a lie,
he did do something else…
he constantly pulled his pants up
to just under his nipples.
And I have a feeling good old genial
Uncle Roy, is about to turn into
Victor Meldrew as, with each passing
game, he looks less and less like the
happy chappy so beloved of the media
and is looking to me like a very
grumpy old man indeed.
I best stop thinking about this as
it gets me very angry.
|
 #494 |
Arthur G. Posis
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 8:29 am
Aitch
It goes without saying that if the players play badly, our chances of winning reduce. But playing the wrong formation is just as damaging. In fact, in the wrong formation – your players can actually play quite well but can still get beaten.
I’m not suggesting any of our players performed all that great on Monday but for me, the formation (whether Roy’s hand was forced by Masch’s decision or not) gave us little or no chance of victory.
As for our long running Poulsen Vs Lucas battle – I’ll keep this short. Ok we’ve only seen Poulsen once so I’ll give ya that that probably isn’t enough time to make a definitive judgement. But am confident (if he stays fit) that’ll he be more useful than our Brazilian friend. Call it a gut-feeling But in terms of the bigger picture – neither are good enough for a team that hopes to crawl it’s way back to the top 4
|
 #495 |
Arthur G. Posis
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 9:01 am
Oh and Aitch,
We clearly were watching a different match on Monday as for me Gerrard was head and shoulders the best of a bad bunch.
You give Lucas 7/10? May I ask: what exactly did he do? He NEARLY got in on the end of a one-two in the second half? His attitude was top-notch? He has a nice haircut?? 7/10 and the man made no positive impact on the game whatsoever – in my view that is. At least Gerrard hit the post, took a few corners (joke)
One day – people in here will see the “Lucas Light “- and realise he’s essentially a Brazilian Paul Stewart – but I’m not holding my breath
|
 #496 |
Rafalution
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 9:40 am
That’s the crux of the matter, FS. You can’t blame a manager for the formation he puts out on the paddock. Things might not work out – the players have a shite game, the opposition might be performing miracles etc. But the fact that he did nothing….that upsets me. Deer in the headlights indeed. Even if you are reluctant to change a game plan midway through the half – get it sorted at half time! Shit, you’ve had 45 mins to see that they had acres of space in the middle of the park. You had 45 mins to see that Johnson was a threat down the right.
Where was plan B? Hell, you didn’t even need to have a plan B. Just get it fixed, fill up the midfield, take off the the 2nd striker, whatever.
|
 #497 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 10:01 am
I reckon us lads could have had a game of 5-a-side in the space between our defence and midfield.
FS, I agree with you about Roy looking like a grumpy old man these days. He is just realising what sort of job he has on his hands. No more jokey, comfy press conferences like at Fulham. No, he’ll have to field some very difficult probing questions in the future. If we get knocked out of Europe he’ll be under the pump big time and the West Brom game will be an absolutely must win.
I fear for him. Looking forward if we were to get a hiding at Old Trafford or say lose to Everton the local and national media will be all over him. The fans will get on his case. I could even see a possibility of him not seeing the season out.
That’s a very pessimistic point of view I guess, but to me it’s a realistic one.
|
 #498 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 10:16 am
I found it interesting that the performance was attributed to Mascherano and the takeover situation. That was the opinion of the commentators and most pundits and journalists. Funny that the previous manager wasn’t afforded such excuses after a bad result.
|
 #499 |
Rafalution
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 10:29 am
I see that Agger is not making the trip to Turkey, and nor are SG, FT & Maxi.
Agger was apparently feeling sick after the Citeh game (not from the teams performance, but physically sick), which apparently was a result of the concussion he received against the Arse. Maybe that would explain his performance Monday night, besides the fact that he was playing out of position?
LB, good point re blame for performance on Masch & takeover. Poor old Rafa had 10x more shit to deal with.
|
 #500 |
theredman
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 11:09 am
After watching monday night’s debacle i had a thought (that’s pretty good at my age ) i watched Fulham v the mancs on sunday afternoon and the home side were definately unlucky to not get the three point’s, of course whiskey nose would argue that as he said “we dropped 2 silly point’s”,most of the second half the mancs where second best and that’s not being biassed honestly.
My point is i thought teams who lose their manager suddenly usually nose-dive a fair bit, not Fulham they look alright on the other hand look at us on monday night we looked like a side with no manager, as FS has pointed out he did nothing and i liked Aitch’s “hang-dog-look” cos he just sat like he had just awoken from a 20 year coma.
But like i say take LFC and Fulham and ask who has just lost a (i use this loosely) “notable” manager, or should that read “not able”.
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 #501 |
bhavster
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 11:28 am
LB – dont worry abt Roy leaving mate. Remember we had this list of managers who would come running to us – Hiddink/Mourinhio/Rijkaard/Ancelottii/van Gaal and god knows the other names that were thrown about.
there is a fine line between naivety and stupidity and it just happened to be our support. Who would have thunk it!
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 #502 |
Arthur G. Posis
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 11:30 am
Jesus – this is crazy
Ok we didn’t play well and the formation and lack of substitutions was a bit worrying. But to judge Roy on essentially one bad performance and claim that he’s “not able” -is knee jerking of the highest order
Lets see how things look up to and including the Man Utd game
Some calm and common sense please
|
 #503 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 11:40 am
LB, there’s an awful lot of people starting to say that…
Roy will not get passed Christmas.
I’m not to sure.
As for the media turning on him, well, I reckon, they will just blame it all on Rafa. There’ll be no looking into our true problems. It will be the same old shit.
I see Sky wheeled out Maureen to stick the knife into him, and they got a bonus…
he attacked Wenger too.
So, they were chuffed… 2 Johnny Foriegners attacked for the price of one. Of course, the guy doing the attacking is also a Johnny Foriegner, but seeing he’s the most magnificent manager in the history of world sport ever, and he loves Sir Alex, he’s okay. He’s one of the boys.
Cappello, Grant and Mancini will be next. Not in any particular order. It doesn’t matter. They’ll have them. Of course Fat Sham an Arry the Spiv and the likes, will never be blamed for their own ineptitude. It’s down to the weather, global warming, the rising petrol prices, anything but them fuckin up.
I watched a bit of Spuds v New Boys. Harry was caught in the headlights to. They went there thinking they were going to tonk them and got the shock of their lives. I hope they get turned over tonight. I wonder what excuses they will make for Good old H.
Well, no. I don’t have to. They’ll trot out the same ones as they did for that fantastic young British manager Moyes, when he got tonked at the same stage.
For a moment, put everything you know out of your mind and think about this…
A man takes over a company that is competing against the most rich and powerful companies that have ever existed in that industry.
The man has tiny resources compared to the opposition. He is basically hamstrung by his own bosses, but is still expected to compete by everyone concerned.
The man, against all the odds, delivers. He has success, winning huge assets for the company, and upgrades at every level, and even challenges the opposition, narrowly missing the huge prize.
In that time, he modernises the old struggling company from top to bottom on a shoe string. He brings in all the top experts in their feild to keep the company running at optimum speed.
Then all the commentators on that industry start to attack the man, using what is basically lies and brain washing to undermine him. And the companies own workers start to believe the lies and won’t work for the man, out on the shop floor and in the supporting wings of the company. Then the owners of the company use that to oust the man, even though their competitors are lining up to buy the man’s contract. The company force the man out and install a popular old man who knows a little about the feild but is weak and set in the past. And he was basically told, you don’t have to really compete. All that’s required is to keep the company afloat while we sell off parts of it.
If you was to see all that from the outside as a casual un-interested observer, what would you think…
The opposition wanted the man out, and used their friends in the industry to help force him out?
The bosses for whatever reason, didn’t want the company competing?
The world’s gone mad?
I know one thing no casual observer would think…
the man was ousted because he wasn’t good enough.
Well, that’s basically what we have just lived through. In any other industry in the world, this would be met with disbelief. And the companies competitors would start to hone in out it. Even minnows of the industry would start trying to usurp it. It’s competitors would start circling it’s main assets like sharks.
It’s happening. We are fucked.
Arthur it’s alright having a go at Lucas, but think this over…
it’s rumoured the lad has asked for a transfer.
Aquilani, gone.
Masch, gone.
Lucas, gone.
Gerrard and Poulsen in the middle backed up by the Wirral Oompa Loompa, Spearing… that could soon be it in the middle.
And still we moan while the outside world looks on and laughs. And we really are becoming a laughing stock, and the sharks are circling.
The only hope I seem to find in all this is the view of some people…
Huang is just waiting until October when the banks won’t play with H&G and he will then usurp them and steal the club from under them.
Even if it’s true, I take no comfort in any of that. Something isn’t right with this Huang fella if you ask me.
In fact, I’d like to ask Digger and BM what is going to happen?
They seemed to know last season when people like them helped force Rafa out the door. Well, I wonder why they don’t come out of hiding and tell us why we are all wrong and how it’s going to work out for the best, like they insisted.
But I won’t hold my breath on that one…
Get this…
I’ve already been defending Roy from a couple of people who demanded he replaced Rafa last season.
Honestly, they are already at it.
If it wasn’t so sad, it would be laughable.
Our season could effectively be over by Thursday night.
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 #504 |
burgerman
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 11:42 am
Sita played like the chavs under Maureen.The black players in their side are as strong and pacey as Momo, yet more skilful.No width from Woy in the first 2 games, badly need a right sided midfielder.Maxi has little to offer for away games.Only scored 14 goals away in the prem last season and the euro away form was continually woeful.Not very opimistic for 2moro night.Woy will be gone by November.
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 #505 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 11:44 am
Arthur, I don’t think Jesus will be helping us unfortunately.
When analysing Roy the following has been taken into consideration.
1. His record in his career so far
2. Transfer market activities for previous clubs and Liverpool (including loaning out Aquilani)
3. Performance, tactics and team selection
4. Results
I don’t think it will be long before your knee gets a bit twitchy.
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 #506 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 11:48 am
Arthur mate, sometimes you really don’t need ages to make a decision.
I know it’s only a few games, but I knew this would happen before Roy got the job.
He’s out of his depth mate.
I don’t think he’s some old mug who doesn’t know what he’s doing. I don’t think he can do anything. The players are calling the shots. It’s pretty much what we seen at Chelsea with Scholari and Grant.
I would absolutely love Roy to prove me wrong, but well put it this way…
I wouldn’t make bets with you as I think it would be wrong to take money off someone over something so predictable.
I take no pleasure in saying these things mate. In fact, it fuckin hurts but as I said, I won’t lie for the man. Well, I will in public but not when I’m talking to other reds.
And, to me, if anything Red’s “Not able and Notable” comment just about sums it all up.
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 #507 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 11:51 am
HA!
There you go 504.
Fuckinunbelievable. I told you they were at it already. I wonder where our friend Digger is. He did surface briefly after the Arsenal game. I know he’s been watching this, bidding his time, waiting for Roy to win games with attaking football, just dying to dive back in and leather me….
You’ll have a long wait, you gobshite. I hope you’re happy now.
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 #508 |
Arthur G. Posis
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 12:04 pm
Didn’t know you can foresee the future FS???
You claim to hope Roy proves you wrong – but then you go and claim Red’s ridiculous comment “sums it all up”
Let’s all just wait and see. Lads Rafa is gone and he ain’t coming back – do we really have to keep referring to him in almost every post? Last season you lot were jumping down people’s throats who dared to question Rafa’s tactics and transfer policy (Aquilani and Alonso) – claiming he was hamstrung by our board, bad luck and injuries. But it seems now you’re all quite willing and ready to write off Roy after 2 GAMES AGAINST ARGUABLY 2 BETTER TEAMS!!!!!!! Sometimes I feel capitals is a necessity in this forum
Oh and also newsflash FS: Digger didn’t get Rafa fired – though I’m fairly sure we’ve been over this ground before
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 #509 |
axchoice
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 12:30 pm
Arthur,
Regarding your comments about “2 BETTER TEAMS”.
Everyone here basically agrees that our starting 11 is as strong as any team in the Premiership.
1) If I don’t remember wrongly, Arsenal had a bad injury crisis in the opening game, without Fabregas and Van Persie to begin with. We only had Torres unfit. Are you sure they’re the better team?
2) Against Man City, even Torres was fit to start, and Man City had essentially the same players as last season. Are you sure they’re the better team?
Or do you mean teams that played better that day? That seems more logical.
|
 #510 |
axchoice
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 12:33 pm
oops. i was wrng. fabregas did start.
|
 #511 |
axchoice
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 12:35 pm
very sorry. read the wrong website. fabregas didn’t start. its embarrassing…
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 #512 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 12:45 pm
Arthur, sometimes one can predict the future. Like if I jump out of a window I am sure I will land. If I slap my boss across the face, I am sure I will get the sack. One bases these predictions against precedence, past events, common sense etc.
Common sense told me that Liverpool is a very difficult club to manage these days. We had a top manager who was willing to fight through the shit. Despite having a top manager we finished 7th and had a woeful season. We then traded in the top manager and got a mediocre manager in. Common sense told me that there was a chance we’d do even worse than last season because we downgraded the quality of our manager. Some of us saw problems on the horizon. Some of us recognise the last couple of games as the chickens beginning to come home to roost.
I’m not sure how anyone can come to the conclusion that downgrading your manager will improve results. I always found that confusing.
We could be wrong of course. We would love to eat humble pie if Roy proves us wrong. In the same way I was glad to eat humble pie in 2008/09 when we challenged for the title. No one will be sulking while we are winning games. I can’t see the most staunch Rafa fans getting in a huff while Gerrard and Hodgson parades the PL trophy around Liverpool city centre. Believe it or not.
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 #513 |
guinnessdrinker
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 1:03 pm
yea some of us saw that we were fucked last december and were told to pipe down “rafa will get us out of this” well newsflash lads rafa got us to 7th from 2nd thats a fuck up of monumental proportions by anyones standards if roy takes us from 7th to 12th he too will have to answer for a major fuck up, thats football. the very lads who make excuse after excuse for what happened last season are now jumping up and down with joy at one bad result “i told ya so i told ya so, i was right i was right” sad. lets give the man a season lads if he fucks it up guess what he’ll have to answer for it like every other manager of every team in the world.
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 #514 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 1:12 pm
Oh Arthur, I don’t need no Newflash. I know quite well Digger never got Rafa sacked.
I’m sure the lad’s never accomplished
anything on his own.
He just helped to raise the possee…
even going to the lengths of lying to stab him.
As for my claiming I hope I’m wrong.
Of course I bloody am.
To insinuate anything else is highly insulting.
I’ve followed this team for neigh on 50 years.
There will be no body more hurt than me if
Roy fails.
But when I’m talking to other reds, I will
not lie on his behalf.
The man’s showing in all games so far has
been downright inept.
Why did he tell Joe Cole to take a penalty
if we got one the other night?
Cole himself said he hasn’t taken a pen
since he was 13… Yes. 13 years of age.
Why has he sent Aquilani out on loan
when it’s took us a year to get the lad
fit and, besides Gerarrd, he’s the only ball
player we have who can play center mid?
Why did he play Zonal marking against Arsenal,
a mixture of zonal and man to man against
the Turks, and then man to man against
City?
Why did he call Agger our most
natural left back?
Why did he play Agger at left back,
with a complete stranger in front of him?
Why play Agger at left back at all,
especially when Agger is our only ball
playing center back and he’d resigned
Aurelio and still has Insua at his disposal?
Why play Agger at all when the lad was
physically still ill from the concusion
he recieved?
Why did he play 442 when the team
haven’t played that system in years?
Why did he play two centre forwards
together who both like to lead the
line on their own?
Why did he let Gerrard roam all over
the pitch and leave the back four
terribly exposed away from home
to an attack minded team?
You seem to think Gerrard was our
best player because he hit the
post, where was he when City attacked?
Why did Roy just leave him to play
the sort of childish football, chasing
all over the pitch on lost causes,
that Rafa had finally removed from
his game?
Why did he do nothing about the huge
gaping hole in our team, which meant
we launched the ball aimlessly long
and City just kept coming back at us
with no one to stop them in the centre
of the park?
Why did he leave this woeful situation
until sending on his first sub, just short
of 80 minutes?
I could go on, but that’s enough for
now.
I might be seen to be picking on Roy.
But here’s the rub, I played the game
from when I could stand to the age of
40. When my knees wouldn’t let me play
anymore I took my coaching badges. I didn’t
want to earn money from it. I never got
to any top level in my playing days. I
did get pro badges though, old UEFA B.
I think they’ve changed them now, but
that’s enough to work at academy level.
Not that I ever would get that sort of
top job. Nor would I deserve it.
I’d be able to put the kids through
excercises, drills, etc and, I’d like to
think, teach them a few things.
But I’d be out of my depth, even at
academy level.
But having said that, I could see where
we were going wrong in all our games
so far. I’d have known how to alter it
with the personel I had on the pitch and
bench. It seems Roy didn’t or he wasn’t
allowed, either way it’s not very good.
Now, all/most the people who called for Rafa’s
head thought Roy would be a better bet.
Well, they got their wish.
And I’ve just given a few reasons why
I don’t think he’s up to the job.
That’s my opinion. I’m entitled to it,
like they constantly reminded me last
season.
So, I think in fairness I can give my
reasons why I don’t think Roy is up
to the job and ask his supporters why
they don’t agree and why they think
he can turn this round?
I’d also like to know why, it’s now
okay for Roy to steady ships when
Rafa was forced out for not challenging,
or that was one of the pretences of why.
So, I think it’s fair to ask.
Sadly though,
they have all gone into hiding
and the ones that have got the brass
neck to come back are already turning
on Roy.
I think you might just have to
rethink your stance on this Arthur.
Like last season, you are aiming at
the wrong targets.
|
 #515 |
Lurgankop
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 1:14 pm
Yep GD but that will be 1 fuck-up from 1 in RH’s case whereas Rafa… well you can finish that sentence as you see fit.
Supposedly Rafa had lost the dressing room and Roy was the answer. To date I have seen no change in the player’s attitude with Roy in charge.
Anyway, RH is not the real problem here and we all know who they are. Until they fuck off or are forced to fuck off, we will keep declinging with the only question being how quickly it happens.
|
 #516 |
gazmaninaus
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 1:27 pm
Well we can whine, grizzle, bitch or complain but in the end it won’t make a difference. If you think your hurting how must the team feel. Nows not the time for I told you so, or you said that, we’re a team lads and we need to lift. LB you were once told on this blog to go a support Arsenal, because of your courage and character your still here, lift. FS besides having the worlds most elongated posts, you have an obligation, lift. I can’t sit here and see two massive fans reduced to bitching about the situation when they should be forefront of out golden sky. We don’t need umbrella’s in the storm its our passage of right to walk through it. Heads up lads this is part of our history. Its the one defining thing that makes us Liverpool Football Club. If we do not have the strength to continue on, where would we be now.
|
 #517 |
Arthur G. Posis
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 1:34 pm
All I ask FS – is we wait and see how Roy gets on.
I didn’t fire Rafa but nor did I hire Roy – some things like the sale of the club or the purchasing/selling of players are out of the supporters hands.
If Roy isn’t capable of at least getting 5/6th this season then clearly he isn’t capable of managing us. But we wont know that for many months.
There is a definite under-current in here whereby people are somehow blaming fellow Reds/Posters for Rafa’s departure – that we’ll now be to blame for what is coming down the road with Roy.
The owners sacked Rafa – simple as that. Divert your full ire to them and Purslow et al. Spare us fellow bloggers your holier than thou preachings of “Well I told ya what would happen when we got Roy….” It’s boring and mis-directed.
I’d say if you took a poll of people in Kop Blog if they would have wanted Rafa sacked, I’d say the vast majority would have said “No, he deserves another season” (this was my stance as you may recall). Equally, if we had another vote as to who we would (in an ideal world) replace our fallen leader with, no doubt again Roy’s name wouldn’t have been very high up on on the majority of peoples list.
Our hierarchy removed Rafa, why? Well we’ll probably only really know when / if our club is finally sold.
Roy was the only name we could attract.
Am I happy about that? Not particularly.
Will I give Roy time and not just presume he’s gonna fail based “precedence, past events, common sense etc.” YOU BET YOUR ASS I WILL
|
 #518 |
Arthur G. Posis
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 1:39 pm
Well written GD # 513 and Gaz # 516
|
 #519 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 1:40 pm
GD…
How dare you imply I am jumping up
and down because Roy is inept.
I will not have it.
I have given blood for this club literally.
I have made some big sacrifices for them
and have done everything I can to be the
best supporter I can be.
And I could go on about that, believe me
I really could. But believe me, no one is
more upset about this situation than I am.
There’s no one who’d like Roy to suceed
more than I do.
You are entitled to your opinon.
You wait and see.
I already had my mind made up before
he came.
That is not a pre-emptive strike.
That is based, like LB, just said on
verifiable facts and history.
If I’m wrong, I’ll be made up.
But don’t insult me again like that.
You will never find me gleefully attacking
anyone conected to LFC.
I won’t though, like I said, lie to fellow
Reds about this.
I will state my opinion.
How much would you like to
bet on me being wrong?
|
 #520 |
gazmaninaus
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 1:46 pm
FS another massive elongated post what has happened. The posts are about 4 inches wide, showing my age now 100 millimetres.
|
 #521 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 2:02 pm
GD, December 2009 I don’t think you could blame people for thinking Rafa was the right man in charge when 6 months prior we had our best league season in 21 years. It wasn’t some blind faith. The opinion that Rafa could get us out of it was based on past achievements. A lot of us also concluded that we wouldn’t be able to get a manager as good. So it didn’t make sense to get rid.
Now we have in what in our opinion is an inferior manager. Our fears look as if they are turning into reality. I realise its only a few games but it is worrying nonetheless.
This talk about giving Roy at least a season. I haven’t heard anyone call for his sacking yet. Giving him months to prove himself is exactly what we will do and even then the likelihood of the club being able to attract a better manager is remote.
Maybe I am being kneejerk but it reminds me of Sam Allardyce’s reign at Newcastle.
|
 #522 |
guinnessdrinker
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 2:09 pm
Fs im going to see how the season goes before i decide how well we will or wont do just like i have every other season for the past twenty odd years if im am totally unhappy with what i see on the pitch after 25 to 30 games then i’ll be able to have an opinion on how good or bad our manager is.
Fact is we finished 7th last year playing cat football along the way if we finish higher then 7th it will be an improvement.
|
 #523 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 2:12 pm
The irony of it…
I don’t care who’s nose it get up…
I did bloody tell you so.
It wasn’t just me.
A few of us knew
that no top manager would touch us
with a shitty stick.
And believe me, I’m so angry at how
my club is being wrecked that I could
be far worse towards the people who
aided and abbetted the removal of
our one hope.
Telling me I have to lift is a complete
and utter load of cack. I’ve told you
I’m already having to defend Roy out
there and you just watch…
pound to a penny, it will be the same people
who stabbed Rafa in the back that will
start the asssaults on Roy and it will
be the same people defending him against them.
Also telling me to be patient,
is not only irony at it’s finest,
it’s also cack.
I’ve just listed technical mistakes that
Roy has made in the last 3 games.
His planning and handling of the City
game was naive in the extreme and
exposed the fact that he didn’t know
what to do to change it, or he wasn’t
allowed to. Neither thing is comforting.
I haven’t came in here screaming off
with his head because I wasn’t “entertained.”
I haven’t been stomping my feet like
a toddler, demanding either lovely
flowing football or vengance on the man.
I listed tactics that were wrong.
I listed team formations that were wrong.
I listed mistakes in transfers.
Not one of you addressed that.
You ridiculously claim that I’m enjoying this.
You are telling me to be kind to the people
that helped to cause this situation.
And you are telling me to keep quiet about
it all and “lift.”
Well, the fact is, I’ve spent
3 and a half years trying to stop this in any
way I can.
Ironic, isn’t strong enough a word.
|
 #524 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 2:15 pm
520… I don’t know Gaz.
I have tried to tell Gerry.
Mine are all elongated but
everyone else’s are coming up on
my machine stretched miles long.
I’m having to use the slider at the
bottom of the page to read them.
It’s a pain, but I don’t know
what to do to fix it.
|
 #525 |
corklfc
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 2:17 pm
Forget Rafa for a minute, with the manager and squad of players we are lightly to have by 1st Sep, why would we think we are even going to get near the top 4, or even improve on 7th.
We have no choice but to wait and see how Roy gets on, but it is unreal when lads can’t see the wood from the trees.
|
 #526 |
bhavster
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 2:17 pm
FS – what browser are you using? Internet Explorer or some other?
|
 #527 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 2:26 pm
GD… We’d been “Cat” for neigh on 20 years.
Rafa is amongst the only 3 men to bring us
big ears.
I don’t have to remind you of his record, but
I think you’d do well to remind yourself
on how he revamped the club from top to bottom.
And how he done all this on 11 million quid a
season while being totally hamstrung
and undermined by the owners.
Now ask yourself what Roy has achieved in
his career at settled clubs with more money?
People would have done well to have read
a few things on him before screaming he
should usurp Rafa.
A blind man on a fast horse could see the
job was beyond him. And there’s no
point in saying he wasn’t my first choice.
It was always obvious we wouldn’t get a
Maureen. And the majority of people who called
for Rafa’s head did approve of Roy.
They got what they deserved.
Sadly though, unlike meself, the majority
of them don’t care which is self evident
from a quick trawl round a few LFC sites…
just like here, they have either disappeared
or are already calling for Roy’s head.
|
 #528 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 2:33 pm
526: FireFox.
Corky mate, there’s nothing much wrong
with the squad. That was a good team
on Monday and the bench was strong.
Players were played out of position.
The formation was wrong.
The system was wrong.
We got like for like substitutions on
72 and 78 minutes, that changed nothing.
We got arm waving, air punching and
shouts of “Get stuck in” from the bench.
Well, that’s what we got when he wasn’t
sat with his head buried in his hands.
I honestly don’t know how to defend that,
or how to use any of it to “lift” people.
It was naive and inept.
Should I lie?
|
 #529 |
knight
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 2:42 pm
One key point in the ManCity game could be the fact that their Billionaire Sheik owner was there for the first time to watch his team play.Mancini just have to tell the troops to give it their all against LFC and they did. Man City had a strong purpose – after all the owner had spent so much money to buy them and pay sky high salaries for them. Enough reason to attack us all over the place. We, on the other hand, did not play with the intensity or guile except when we attacked at one point in the second half. We could then have scored with Gerrard, Ngog or Torres, but Hart was simply brilliant that night.
|
 #530 |
corklfc
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 2:52 pm
FS, I agree with you, but as I said, it’s about the squad we will have when the transfer window closes.
|
 #531 |
knight
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 3:03 pm
Interesting article:
Liverpool’s 25 man squad – who makes Roy’s FINAL CUT?
Date: 24th August 2010 at 7:21 pm | Written by Mark Molloy
image © Action Images ShareLiverpool manager Roy Hodgson has just over a week to decide on the 25 players he will choose to assist him in his Anfield re-building project as the fallen giants look to re-gain a place in the top four this season. However after Monday night’s sorry display against Manchester City at Eastlands, it will certainly be an unenviable task.
While the strength-in-depth of Liverpool’s top four rivals City is highlighted by some expected big name casualties failing to make the cut, including striker Roque Santa Cruz and samba star Robinho, Hodgson’s task looks set to be considerably easier. The Reds do not have a luxury of stars to choose from and there looks certain to be no major shocks when the manager’s bare-bones squad is announced when the transfer window slams shut on 1 September.
The new ‘home-grown’ (HG) rule being introduced to the Premier League this season is designed to help young English players develop while also limiting the amount of foreign players in Premier League squads. Each club must register at least eight home-grown players under the age of 21 who have been with a Welsh or English club for at least three years.
Club stalwarts Steven Gerrard and Jamie Carragher make up a quarter of the HG quota, while England internationals Glen Johnson and Joe Cole bring the total up to four. Goalkeeper Brad Jones, a new sigining from Middlesbrough, also qualifies as home-grown, leaving three more HG spaces in the squad which need filling.
Former academy duo Stephen Darby and Jay Spearing, who have been on the fringes of the first-team in recent seasons, both also look set to be named in the first-team squad as home-grown players. Both players turn 22 in the next few months and therefore have to be registered to play. The final spot remains a problematic one however and Liverpool may find themselves registering less players than the 25 permitted by the Premier League.
Players under the age of 21 do not have to be registered and clubs can call on these players at any time throughout the season. Highly-rated talents such as Martin Kelly, Danny Wilson, Dani Pacheco, JonJo Shelvey and Peter Gulacsi all fall into this category and therefore do not have to be registered in the squad. David N’Gog and Emiliano Insua also do not have to be registered due to the date their respective birthdays fall on.
Taking into account the expected departure of Argentine skipper Javier Mascherano to Barcelona, Liverpool’s squad looks somewhat depleted. Arsenal star Aleksander Hleb has been tipped to head in the opposite direction as a makeweight in the deal to increase the squad numbers further. Hodgson is also keen to conclude a £9m deal for PSV striker Ola Toivonen, however the Dutch side have so far refused to negotiate the player’s sale. A deal for veteran Mexican defender Carlos Salcido, whom Hodgson is also rumoured to be interested in signing.
These deals all remain a long way from being completed however and you have to question the manager’s decision to allow £18m signing Alberto Aquilani to leave on loan. It may leave the 63-year-old coach relying on the likes of unproven Nabil El Zhar and Damien Plessis throughout the season. Unless some moves are made in the transfer market Liverpool could be up to four experienced players short of the Premier League’s recommended amount.
The likely squad is listed below, while these numbers will be further boosted by any new signings and the club’s u-21 players.
GK: Pepe Reina, Brad Jones
FB: Fabio Aurelio, Glen Johnson, Stephen Darby,
CB: Jamie Carragher, Daniel Agger, Martin Skrtel, Soto Kyrgiakos
MF: Steven Gerrard, Christian Poulsen, Lucas Leiva, Joe Cole, Jay Spearing
AMF: Dirk Kuyt, Ryan Babel, Maxi Rodriguez, Milan Jovanovic
F: Fernando Torres
Hodgson certainly has a great deal of work to do in the final few days of the transfer market as he makes the last-minute additions and finishing touches to his squad of players.
|
 #532 |
rome77
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 3:08 pm
Roy Hodgson “E stato la prima rovina del l’Inter” is one description that i’ll leave for you lads to translate.
I’m just hoping that won’t be his epitaph at liverpool.
Serious question lads how likely is he to join the Souness/Houlier club and have a heart attack ?
|
 #533 |
Arthur G. Posis
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 3:11 pm
FS – don’t use Firefox – use IE or Chrome (what I’m using now)
Anyway, yes FS you did raise valid tactical concerns and if Roy repeats these mistakes again – I’ll be joining you in raising my voice in concern!
But I don’t recall a similar list of failings being produced by yourself (or others) during some of last season’s inept performances – instead all I heard was “owners”, “concussions” “beach balls”, “bad luck” & “lack of investment”
No mention of crazy substitutions (or lack thereof), overly-cautious line-ups against the likes of Wolves, Stoke et al and seriously dubious transfer decisions (Aquilani anybody?)
So I find it a bit rich FS – that you’re raising these “issues” now with a new manager who will surely need a bit of time to get to know a team that is essentially modeled in someone else’s image (Rafa) – when you weren’t asking the similar concerns last season. Last season it was “please direct all concerns to our shitty owners” – but this season Roy is fair game it seems?
Standards Compromised??? More like Double Standards lads!!
Roy deserves a chance – let him have it.
|
 #534 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 3:17 pm
“He was the first to ruin Inter”.
|
 #535 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 3:24 pm
What They Say About Roy Hodgson
Sunday, July 04, 2010
Following on from Friday’s piece where we took a look at what Roy Hodgson had said over the years, here’s what others have said about Roy Hodgson over the years.
“He’s not the best; not by a long way. But is he the best we can realistically expect?”
Paul Tomkins, writer The Tomkins Times
“Roy Hodgson was an important person in the development of Inter Milan to the point we have reached today. “He saved us at the right time. When he came we were in trouble, and things appeared dark. He didn’t panic, he was calm and made us calm. Disaster was averted at the most important time. Everyone at Inter will remember him for that and his contribution. He is considered by us all as an important person in our history. He left an endowment to this club that’s important in our history.”
Massimo Moratti, Inter owner
“E stato la prima rovina del l’Inter” (He was the first to ruin Inter)
Maurizio Mosca, Italian sports journalist
“My problem at Inter was Hodgson, Roy Hodgson. He wanted me to play as a forward when I’m a defender – I prefer to have space ahead of me to run into rather than be a winger already up there; for me it’s better to have 80 metres to play in than 20. I didn’t like the system or where Hodgson wanted me to play in it. He wanted me further up the pitch, sure, but stopped, still, rigid. The Copa America was coming up and I was playing at left-back for Brazil, so I wanted to play there for Inter too. I had to leave because I didn’t want to jeopardise my chances with the national team. If I couldn’t play the way I do I wouldn’t be able to play for Brazil. I spoke to Massimo Morratti [the Inter president] to see if he could sort things out and it soon became clear that the only solution was to leave.”
Brazilian legend Roberto Carlos, sold by Hodgson when he was at Inter.
“Hodgson’s philosophy has remained more or less unchanged since he joined Maidstone as Bobby Houghton’s assistant coach in 1971. There they implemented the ideas of Allen Wade, the modernising technical director of the FA, who, in a quite literal way, rewrote the coaching manual. Wade saw no point in drills that weren’t specifically related to game play, and so formulated a whole theory of coaching based on specific match situations. Houghton and Hodgson moved to Sweden, Houghton at Malmo and Hodgson at Halmstad, and it was there that Wade’s ideas took root, as Sweden was divided between the modern, English method – which favoured pressing, zonal marking and counter-attacking with direct passes – and the more traditional German school with a libero and man-marking.”
Jonathan Wilson, writer and author of Inverting the Pyramid
“We work on it [the formation] every day. I’ve been working with the manager three seasons now and every day is team shape. He gets the 11 that he wants and he drills everything in that he wants. We’ve got the ball – it’s never unopposed. It’s certain drills, defensive and attacking, and we work very hard at it. There’s no diagrams, it’s just all on the pitch. We do a lot of work after every game, sorting the bad things out, sorting the good things out. It’s nice to know what you work hard on works so well.”
Simon Davies, Fulham midfielder
“He changed the whole way we were playing, He made us more of a footballing team than the direct-ball team under Lawrie. His knowledge of the game, his philosophies . . . he has that temperament a manager needs. He never gets too down, and he doesn’t let us get too carried away when we’re having a good spell.”
Danny Murphy, former Liverpool midfielder currently at Fulham FC
“His entire management career has been based on imparting method and discipline into teams. Occasionally, there have been accusations of rigidity, but Hodgson’s sides are never sterile. Fulham seldom deviate from 4-4-2 and the wide players, while expected to track back, are encouraged to be audacious…Mavericks are too temperamental to fit into Hodgson’s conscientious approach, so Jimmy Bullard was sold to Hull for £5m and some of the money spent on Dickson Etuhu, an industrious, hard-running midfielder.”
Richard Wilson, writer Scotland Herald
|
 #536 |
An Linn
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 3:30 pm
Lads Rafa’s gone we need to move from the anger stage to acceptance,
Not mind you anger at the owners that can continue unabated.
All we are saying is give Roy a chance – to the tune of john lennon
|
 #537 |
rome77
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 3:38 pm
Well done LB i got that from a Inter fan who seemed pissed off about Roberto Carlos.
But for all i know the journalist in question is probably as as useless as tits on a bull.
Like most of his English counterparts.
|
 #538 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 3:41 pm
An Linn, you are right. But I’m afraid it is human nature to lament what you always thought was the wrong thing to do and say I told you so. Hence the term “I told you so”.
Now imagine we sold Torres because he is injury prone and had a poor world cup. And we signed Emile Heskey as his replacement. In 3 matches Big Emile squandered a few sitters and fell over the ball a couple of times. Would you come in here moaning about getting rid of Torres or would you simply move on, get over Torres and give Emile your full backing?
|
 #539 |
Arthur G. Posis
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 3:45 pm
But LB: who are you directing your “I told ya so” to???
|
 #540 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 3:49 pm
Lads, I’m stuck indoors. It’s absolutely
bloody horrible here, cold and raining
really hard. But I’m going to make
this me last comment as I do happen to
agree the Rafa v Roy debate…
Pointless, boring and it only makes me
angry.
If you think back to my other comments,
after having me rant when Rafa went,
I calmed down and even told other
people we needed to back Roy now.
I still think that. In fact I only
commented once on this very briefly
after the City game and I deliberately
left it alone as I didn’t want to get
caught up in the argument.
But being stuck in here all day,
I commented and as I said…
I can’t lie about this.
So, right let’s leave Rafa and
Roy out and just talk football…
Setting up with 442, especially with
Torres and Ngog, was suicide.
But once they were on the pitch, the
only way to change it was by substion.
See, Torres and NGog are too similair.
They will never be able to play with
each other. The both lead the line.
They are used to being up top, holding
the ball, bringing in support from
deep.
Anyone who knows these two players games,
know’s it’s absolute folly to play the
two of them together.
I honestly couldn’t believe it when
I seen the team sheet and line up.
if things are going wrong with our normal
4231 line up, it’s possible to change
things with out changing the players.
It’s fluid.
With Gerrard in the hole, if you’re
under the cosh he can drop back. The two
wide me can drop back making it 451.
On the attack it easily develops into
4114, and to balance it up it can fold
into 433 when you have to match numbers
in the middle of the park.
442 with two loan strikers not working in
tandem creates the huge whole in the
middle that we seen, or results in our
defence defending on the 18 yeard line
and the midfield folding back on them.
That then means the ball being hoofed long,
lost and coming straight back at you.
It’s also very easy to land the sucker
punch.
I know Gerrard looks good in the all
action role, and that he wants to play
there, but he couldn’t get to grips with
Wilshire in the Arsenal game, and, well,
where was he for the Barry goal the other
night?
So to shake this system up when it’s
going wrong, it needs substitutions.
We got them on 72 minutes and 78.
They were like for like, nothing at all
changed.
And I could go on. I’d like to go on about
our left flank.
But I’m just going to say this…
I don’t think Roy is some mug.
I could see the problems. In fact, when I
saw the team and the formation I knew these
problems would arrive.
When it did happen, I could have shook it
up and changed things round.
Do I believe I know more than Roy, do
I fuck. The man has had a 30 year career,
most of it at the top level.
Why did he start the game like this?
Was he really naive enough to think
we was going to go Main Road and get
anything with a team playing a new
formation?
Why did he go 442, when the team has
never played it and the two strikers
are so alike?
Did he honestly think lone sharks like
NGog and Torres were somehow going to
just magically gel and play like a
striking duo?
Why didn’t he wait to the 72nd and 78th
minute to change things, when 20 minutes
was enough to see it wasn’t working.
Why did he make like for like subs
when our team/play was screaming for
something different?
Did he honestly think strangers and concussed
players could just automatically gel
and hold out the best young winger in
the league?
Why did he change our defensive system to
one that none of the players is used to?
And I honestly could keep going on
about the man’s mistakes the other
night, but I’ll just get to me point…
What the fuck is going on?
Is Roy a Gimp?
Is Gerrard picking the team?
Is Roy being used like Avram Grant?
Or is he really that bad?
I worry that it’s a bit of each.
Last season’s run in the UEFA Cup
was the thing the board/owners and media
used to con us into thinking he was good
enough.
Everytime you turned on the telly/radio or
picked up a paper it screamed at us
about Fulham’s wonderful season.
Did any of you know that Fulham lost
18 games away from home last season,
didn’t pick up a single point?
Sorry, but none of that gives me any
confidence for the coming season.
|
 #541 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 3:54 pm
533: I didn’t come in here last season.
I couldn’t stand the back stabbing.
I only came back when Rafa got ousted.
|
 #542 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 4:03 pm
Arthur, my “I told you so” is a general “I told you so” and wasn’t directed to anyone in particular in here. However since you jumped in like Optimus Prime defending Roy and telling us to get over Rafa you jumped into the line of fire a little bit. My “I told you so” will be directed at all them idiots who totally bought the media bollacks that we’d be better off sacking Rafa and bringing in someone like Roy. Those ‘idiots’ include fans, pundits and journalists. Some of the idiots are in my own family and are close friends of mine. But when the time comes I will be directly a big fat “I told you so” to anyone who cares to listen. I won’t be chuffed to do so but I will be taking out my frustration on them because sadly I can’t get Tom Hicks into a headlock. I will be foaming at the mouth in vexation screaming I fucking told you so when we languish in mid-table and get more hidings throughout the campaign.
If I am wrong and we improve then you all can dance a jig telling me you told me so all you want. I will also be dancing a jig while holding my hands up admitting I was talking out of my arse.
How is that for you?
|
 #543 |
rome77
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 4:03 pm
Those that fail to learn from history, are doomed to repeat it.
Thats why “i told you so” is on the lips of a lot of fans.
|
 #544 |
Arthur G. Posis
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 4:05 pm
FS re # 541 – you were here last season – now I know you did leave but you were definitely posting at the start to mid of last season. Am I missing something here?
also, what does this statement mean “Did any of you know that Fulham lost 18 games away from home last season, didn’t pick up a single point? ”
Huh??? I know for a fact they drew at Anfield and City for starters????
Think you’re losing it FS…..
|
 #545 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 4:19 pm
That wasn’t the 18 games they lost.
I wasn’t in here for 10 games.
I couldn’t take it.
What really done for me was when
Digger told actual lies against Rafa
and when I pulled him on it people
defended him and thought I was a bully.
Go check Roy’s record, don’t just think
he’s good because you were told he had a
Wonderful season last season.
He finished second in the UEFA cup,
look at the opponents, look at the results.
Look at where he finished in the league.
In fact, have a look at his career.
He’s had more clubs than Tiger Woods.
He’s had more clubs than we’ve had managers
in our history.
His greatest achievments are keeping mid
table teams in the mid table.
And that’s that.
I’m done for the day.
I hope to soon be appologising to Roy
and all hands in here.
And I will if you give me any answers to
the tactical problems I’ve highlighted.
I’d say I’ll wait until Roy proves me
wrong but, if I do that, I reckon you
lads could be in for a long wait.
|
 #546 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 4:21 pm
Fulham away record W1 D7 L12 Scored 12 Conceded 31.
They lost 18 away games in all competitions though.
|
 #547 |
Dizzy
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 4:22 pm
David Trezegeut for liverpool …
Anyone ??
|
 #548 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 4:35 pm
Dizzy, Trezeguet is done. He was a class striker 10 years ago.
|
 #549 |
Arthur G. Posis
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 4:38 pm
So FS – what exactly are you proposing people in here should talk about / do ?
|
 #550 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 4:47 pm
Carry on the debate because it’s livened up quite nicely over the last few days. Was boring as hell before the season started.
Arthur, lads, lets talk about Agger, Gerrard and Torres not travelling to Turkey. Torres rested, Gerrard has a sore back and won’t be risked. Agger is feeling unwell due to rushing back from concussion too early. What do you make of the decision to leave them behind and do you like our chances on Thursday night?
|
 #551 |
Lurgankop
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 5:05 pm
Fuck, if Agger’s out we may have to play a LB at LB LB
|
 #552 |
guinnessdrinker
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 5:17 pm
our league away record last year
played 19 WON 5 lost 6 drew 8 scored 18 conceded 20 gd -2 pts 21
not that much better than fulhams
and we lost 16 last year in total.
|
 #553 |
guinnessdrinker
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 5:23 pm
that should read drew 6 and lost 8
|
 #554 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 5:33 pm
GD, your post 513. “2nd to 7th is a fuck up of monumental proportions. And if Hodgson takes us from 7th to 12th he will have to answer for a major fuck up.”
Well…
2008/09 Fulham 7th
2009/10 Fulham 12th
|
 #555 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 5:59 pm
Well Arthur seeing it’s an LFC blog,
and we are all Liverpudlians, I suppose
we should carry on talking about LFC,
like we have been.
I don’t mind you defending Roy.
I quite admire it… remember, I’m the
lad who constantly preached loyalty
and patientce.
I’m also the lad who said Rafa is gone,
we should support Roy, he needs and
deserves it as he isn’t to blame
for anything that’s wrong at LFC.
But if we are going to talk about Roy,
well what do you want me to do, Lie?
He’s had barely no pre-season.
That actually works in his favour when
discussing how badly we’ve played. But I
found it worrying when he was so glowing
about Spearing after the Leiverkusen game.
Jay’s not good enough. Shame, but there
it is. He found his level at Leicester.
And at his age, if he’s not going to play
he should be allowed to leave.
But Aquilani is shipped out, Mascherano is
on his way and Poulsen is brought in.
It’s rumoured Lucas has asked to leave.
Apparently he wants to go home to Brazil.
That leaves us Gerrard, Poulsen and
Spearing in the middle.
I don’t know about you but I find that
very worrying.
But he may still sort all that.
So let’s just talk what we’ve seen
on the field.
Nobody has answered any of my concerns.
They’ve tried to prove me wrong, when
I wasn’t.
They’ve dragged up last season.
Well, if Rafa has gone, I think
it’s only fair to say the season has
an all.
So, let’s concentrate on the City game.
It’s freshed in everyone’s memory.
Who would have fielded 442 for that game?
I certainly wouldn’t.
Who would have waited until we were 3 down
to change it?
I wouldn’t.
Who would have made like for like subs
with 15 minutes left?
I wouldn’t.
Who would have sat, slumped on the bench
with their head in their hands?
I wouldn’t.
Who would have played a centre back
at LB when he was suffering from concusion?
I wouldn’t.
Who would have played an attacking forward
ahead of that player, and up against a
very tricky, pacey, bang in form winger?
I wouldn’t.
When an opposing full back out jumped the
concused defender and scored, who would
have ran to the touchline and started roaring
at the centre back to get stuck in?
I wouldn’t.
When Gerrard didn’t track his man back
and we went 2 down, would you have not told
Gerrard to get back and help out?
I wouldn’t.
When my two wide men, Dirk and Jova, were
having to come back deeper than my central
midfielder and move inside to try and close
the hole, who would have just let that go on?
I wouldn’t.
And again, I could go on. But what’s the
point. No one seems to want to address it.
Maybe I should learn to just sit and shout
get stuck in at the telly.
But I can’t help but worry about these things,
and I can’t understand why others wouldn’t
be worried either.
Yes. Rafa might have not succeeded at the
likes of Wolves last season. I think the
Pompey away game was one of the worst LFC
performances I’d seen for a long long time.
But I saw that caused by the things some
listed, plus the team being completely
demoralised by then.
But I honestly can not remember one game
when Rafa done nothing to try and change
it and seemed completely out of his depth.
And anyone who thinks I’m just stabbing
Roy in the back, should read that and ask
themselves them questions because that’s
what I’m doing. I’m not stabbing our
current manager because I don’t like him
and I prefered the last one.
I’m voicing my fears and concerns.
I’m stating actual tangible things and
legitamately asking is Roy up to it.
Judging from what I’ve seen so far,
I have to say he isn’t.
Lads…
All City’s goals game from open play
down the left flank. The build up I mean,
not the actual goals. We were getting
absolutely mauled along our left flank
all night long.
Why did Roy do nothing to shore it up?
|
 #556 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 6:01 pm
554: That’s funny in a sadly ironic way.
PS: Sorry for the state of me posts.
I don’t know how to sort it out.
|
 #557 |
timmytorres
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 6:10 pm
I haven`t yet caught up with all the comments but i will lads.
Just to add my two cents,i tried last night but my post got zapped ito space and i was too feckin tired,hugover and pissed off to try again!
On the match,i was cocerned whe i seen the 4-4-2.
City pack their midfield with three absolute workhorses in Barry,de jong and ya ya.
Add to that the front three would also run over their grannys to win posession whe they didn`t have the ball.
So from that aspect i felt we eeded to play with three in the middle with Gerrard being the most advanced behind,torres.
If Poulsen couldn`t play,then due to Masch spitting the dummy at the last minute i suspect Roy was left with a bit of a dilemma.
Of course i`ve the benifit of hindsight here but maybe if Roy stuck Stevie and Lucas sitting then Maxi behind it might have been some bit different.
In fact,why was poulsen on the bench if he couldn`t play?
Anyway once the game was under way,my fears were coming true.We were second best i the first half.Gerrard was so deep trying to influence the game with little results.Torres kept running back to get the ball,then tried to take on the whole City team on his own.
Torres and Ngog will not work together against opposition of this calibre .They both like to lead the line with someone behind in the hole.
The gap between the defense and midfield is a concern.
At half time i was willing Roy to change something,but my biggest cocern is that Roy waited till the 78th minute to do something,when we were three nil down.
We only started to get into the game and have attempts on goal when we were two down.
But to wait until the 78th for Roy to make a change is a major concern for me.
I am willing to give Roy more time but if i`m to be completely frank,i`m not optimistic about this at all.
|
 #558 |
timmytorres
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 6:12 pm
FS,
If your using firefox,then change to internet explorer or an alternative one.
Ihad same problem.
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 #559 |
KeithSA
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 7:23 pm
Gaz I know you and I don’t really see eye to eye but do you honestly think last year was a true reflection of Rafa and the team he put together capabilities.
You are quite happy to discount the same team finishing second the year before and in the CL spot every year before that under Rafa. You will not concede that the injuries (11 out of a squad of 25), especially to Torres and Gerrard had no impact and are just excuses by the likes of the pro Rafa brigade. That these injuries did not cause us to be disjointed when we used dozen of changes just at the back because of it, with players constantly looking to regain fitness and sharpness because of the injuries.
That the likes of Spurs, City, Sunderland apart from the top team where all out spending us by a considerable margin, that midway through the transfer season Rafa’s budget was suddenly taken away and he was left high and dry as to his plans and cover in certain areas, leaving us badly exposed when the injuries hit? The demoralized squad who thought they would be challenging but found themselves as also ran.
All these are just excuses with no relevance as to why we finished 7th.
I will give Roy a chance but I am under no illusion as to what is going to happen. The squad is being ripped apart under his watch whether he is in charge of the decision or not he signed up under that constraint so he is responsible. He has everybody fit, a luxury that Rafa did not have last year. Under his care he has know officially sold Aquaman as Juve have a clause that says they have a right to sign him for 12 Mill should they want to. He prefers the Poulsons of this world. I wont go into speculation about all the transfer dealing but if they are true it is worse that I feared. The only thing I will side with him on is that the likes of Wolves and Blackpool know have a bigger budget than he does
All of a sudden if Roy challenges for 4th its acceptable and would be a massive achievement, when we made it comfortably under Rafa, last year the exception, and we are pulled up when we moan about it. Some of us saw a dynasty being built, some of us compared it to the past, the most successful manager in the last 20 years and we got rid of him. You want us to move on and forget when I am faced with what has been on show lately and as I see the team being dissembled bit by bloody bit. We where so close to becoming a major force for years to come. It will take us another 5 years to get back to this same level once we get decent owners and a decent manager.
So forgive some of us for being fucked of, disappointed and frustrated and unable to move swiftly along. The team we all love is becoming the joke of the century and the people laughing the hardest are just down the road because Fugus knew how close we where to becoming a real force once more.
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 #560 |
An Linn
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 7:50 pm
LB – Good analogy about Heskey v Torres but there is the crux of the argument nodbody thinks that Roy is a better manager than Rafa but he was the best manager we could get what with the state we’re in. Which is why the I told you so rings hollow.
A little side bar here – I actually think that if he hadn’t been pushed Rafa would have walked – the only thing keeping him here was his loyalty to the fans and to the city but the man had his principles and he wouldn’t have put up with the lies much longer.
FS – nobody is agruing that monday night game was a shambles re wrong formation, wrong players but what we’re asking nay praying is that Roy will take this all on board and try to get some sort of system together that he and the team are comfortable playing with.
These players are used to playing a certain formation and are comfortable with it – Roy is obviously going to change that but it will take time for the players to adjust to it.
maybe for the first game he left it as with small changes i.e zonal/man marking but with players on the posts was but for the city game he tried to change it to his way – with disastrous results but lets give the man a grace period to try and sort it out
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 #561 |
Bulgar
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 8:28 pm
It’s ironic that one of the players deemed by many fans “not good enough for Liverpool” is 45 minutes away from putting Spurs in the Champs League. Well done, Crouchinho! Shows how little we know about football.
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 #562 |
Lurgankop
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 8:31 pm
Great post KeithSA. We were that close (whenever slur alex starts having a pop, you know that we were close and he feels threatened) and now it has come down to this.
We all know that it’s not RH’s fault but quite a few people predicted what would happen if Rafa was forced out and I haven’t seen anything so far to change my opinion on this, so far.
Like everyone, I hope that RH brings us glory and cups, but I have severe reservations that we will do even better that 7th this season. Like LB I will quite happily admit I was wrong if it does happen and I will eat my humble pie but the initial signs are not good.
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 #563 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 8:58 pm
Keith’s post has saved me from having
to write an answer to you An Linn.
We already had the man. He was forced out of
the door. Our stupid fans aided and abbetted
this with their ignorance and petulance.
The demands placed upon the man where ridiculous.
They got their way.
Now I have given honest, legitimate
reasons why I think Roy is not up to the
job.
I also think we have player power going on
that will further hinder the man.
I haven’t called the man a mug.
I’ve done quite the opposite.
He can do what is expected.
He’ll keep us mid-table by having
quite exciting battles with the likes
of Tony Pullis and Mick McCarthy.
We will get absolutely minced by
the better teams and managers.
That is my prediction.
And the thing is, I happen to love this
football club. It’s been a huge part of
me life. Except for me Ma who’s still
alive, it’s the longest standing thing
in my life. I have spent three and a half
years watching it being drained of
everything, even down to it’s character.
I fear we have lost the one man who
may have got us through all this.
I fear we have installed a much weaker
man who will do nothing to stop it.
He won’t fight back.
He is not of the right caliber to begin
with. If he does get any money, he will
spend it on players like Konchesky and
Poulsen. He will be hamstrung by the
board/owners.
He will be undermined by the more senior
players.
That is conjecture. That is my fears.
I hope they don’t become true.
But as for formations, tactics, transfers,
etc, well I have history to base my opinion on.
I think it’s a bit rich for people to
tell me to just hush up and wait.
If a few more of us would have stood up,
and been counted we may not be in this mess.
Don’t think LFC is to big to end up in real
serious Portsmouth/Southampton/Leeds trouble.
Liverpool is a small city.
It has two top teams unlike the three places
I just mentioned.
It’s a poor city.
Locals are being priced out.
They are also voting with their feet
and refusing to support H&GFC.
The tourists will stop coming when
they aren’t feasting from the top
table.
The merchandise will dry up.
The sponsorships will decrease.
And I could go on, but I think you
get my drift.
I’ll still go.
Even if we are reduced to playing
in the third tier.
I’ll enjoy it again.
I won’t even go while H&G are still here.
Faith, trust, belief, support, “Lifting,”
even lying will not stop these realities.
And make no mistake, if Roy fails in
steadying the ship it could well sink.
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 #564 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 9:00 pm
PS, I’ll get the lad to sort
this out tomorrow. He’s out on the ale.
Good for him. Thinking about these things
make me feel like cracking a few….
a few dozen.
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 #565 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 9:08 pm
Seeing Spurs stride their way into the CL proper gives me a deflated sensation. Crouch hatrick just to rub salt into the gaping wound.
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 #566 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 9:08 pm
Take no notice of this. Just seeing if this internet explorer thing works.AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA A AAAAAAAAAAAA AAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA A A A AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAa A A A A.
Hopefully it posts normally.
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 #567 |
Lurgankop
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 9:17 pm
Nail on head FS.
-o-
I think it’s a bit rich for people to
tell me to just hush up and wait.
If a few more of us would have stood up,
and been counted we may not be in this mess.
-o-
Quite a few LFC supporters (read most) underestimated how much we could have influenced the 4 fuckers. They played the divide and conquer card, with the aid of the media, and the majority fell for it.
Ah well, at least when we are playing accrington stanley we will not have to put up with this shite!
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 #568 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 9:26 pm
Lurgan, Accrington Stanley? Who are they!??
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 #569 |
KeithSA
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 9:34 pm
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAS is exactly how I feel FS
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 #571 |
Lurgankop
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 9:58 pm
btw, they just went down 2-3 against the toon. So maybe my outlandish prediction will not be that far of the mark after all.
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 #572 |
Dizzy
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 10:02 pm
@548 …
Trezegeut left out of Juventus’s next match and being linked with liverpool …
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 #573 |
pshenava
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 10:46 pm
Now get ready to welcome the great Paul Konchesky as Fulham have signed Carlos Salcido. We have also frozen out our 2 left backs so this move seems imminent.
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 #574 |
sachem
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 11:04 pm
Don’t really know what to make of this quote by Roy talking about the transfer speculations surrounding Deadly Dirk:
“I need the player, I don’t need money.”
A bit odd one must say considering the state of the “ship” he’s in. I suppose what he means is, it’s better to keep the player than to get some money and not be able to use it for a replacement anyway. At least, that would make sense.
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 #576 |
dougle
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 11:10 pm
Oh boy, I have sworn off being negative until such time as the team and squad have settled down but …. Konchesky (29), Poulsen (at least 30), Luke Young (who wouldn’t come – 30 ish), Joe Cole (29 and injury blighted) …
Out Masher and Aquaman (mid 20′s) .. Rumoured Insua and Lucas (early 20′s), Nameth (early 20′s)gone today.
What kind of future are we building eh ?
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 #577 |
rafamuffin
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 11:18 pm
What i find most baffling is that the people who defend Kuyt and Lucas are the same people who are saying that Jovanovich and Poulsen won’t cut the mustard.
Kuyt has actually created a new position in football,the worlds 1st defensive attacker and Lucas is at best a average defensive midfielder who is average at everything ie passing/tackling/shooting/pace.
When we bought kuyt from feyenoord his goalscoring record for them was played 101 games scored 71 goals(Torres like stats).We bought him to be our main central sriker to fire us to glory….he fell on his arse.
We keep saying we need a proven goalscorer to back up Torres but we paid £10 million for Dirk to score goals as a centre forward but he never seems to get a mention when cover for nando is talked about.
Its almost like our dirty secret that he was just not good enough.
I grew up in the John Barnes era and i think we should be aspiring to that level in term of attacking wide players.
When Torres and Gerrard were talking about the need for 4 or 5 quality players to be added to the team who do you think these players were intended to replace?.
I see our rival teams and i look at there wide attacking player and i see players who have pace/dribbling ability/pinpoint passing/good crossing.
Kuyt has none of these all he seems to have is grit and endeavour I don’t think opposition coaches are very concerned about kuyt when facing liverpool.
I think they would be more concerned about Babel’s pace down the right.
Kuyt balances out the dutch team because they have a lot of attack minded players but liverpool don’t have that luxury.
I have no problems with Kuyt and Lucas being squad players who fill in and who knows one day lucas may morph into Roy Keane but he’s not there yet.
Look at the players in the top 7 teams who play out wide.
Malouda/Valencia/Giggs/Lennon/Bale/Arshavin/Walcott/Ashley Young/Adam Johnson/Wright Phillips/Silva/Milner.
I would swap any of these players for Kuyt because he is a shite wide attacking player who does not offer a threat.
Fullbacks do not wake up in a cold sweat thinking christ I’ve got to mark Dirk kuyt today.
I know the majority of you feel differently but i cannot ignore what i see with my own eyes.
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 #578 |
dougle
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 11:18 pm
Spot on Sachem 574 and .. deary me but Roy looks a bit disillusioned indeed. I hope he does get some money and some reinforcements by the way. I do still support Liverpool and Roy’s vision versus my vision apart, it is the 2 vampires and RBS that is our big problem. Until that situation is sorted then we and Roy and the club are all on a skating rink with no blades and blindfolds on.
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 #579 |
sachem
Posted on August 25, 2010 @ 11:35 pm
Good God rafamuffin, you must have missed a shitload of games Kuyt has played or suffer from bad eyesight. In the World Cup, he was immense and one of the main reasons Netherlands reached the final. It’s because of players like Kuyt (and Lucas, for that matter) the spectacular players are allowed to shine. I can’t for the life of me understand how anyone who’s watched even a fraction of the games Dirk has played for us the last 4 yours would not realize this.
I do accept he wasn’t much use against Man City, but that’s (in my opinion) because he along with too many other players in the team were out of position and couldn’t get anywhere near their full capacity.
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 #580 |
rome77
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 12:15 am
Dougle
“What kind of future are we building eh ?”
looks more like a bonfire we’re building with Torres as the Guido Fawkes sat at the top.
First you light the dry “deadwood” at the bottom and as the heat rises Guido Fawkes (if he has any sense ) will jump off voluntarily.
Firesale is a good way of describing it.
YNWA
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 #581 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 12:33 am
When all else fails, blame the usual scapegoats, eh.
Well, I wouldn’t worry about it too much. He’s probably next go go. Funny enough the only thing that might keep him is exactly what’s sending Masch away…
Kuyt loves living in Liverpool. His kids speak Scouse. The famiy is settled. And he loves the place. So, he may stay for them reasons. We’ll see.
As for his use to the team, well, I know some really knowledgable people that don’t see the postivites. But they basically don’t like Rafa’s style of football anyway.
Kuyt never re-invented himself. Rafa did. His system needs that type of player.
The whole system, was based upon simple ideas well implemented, by players capable of doing the things at high tempo. It didn’t require a Ronaldo. Which is just aswell, because at both Valencia and Liverpool he was never given the money to buy them. But anyway, the system was the thing…
High defensive line, pushing up on the opposition even when not in possesion of the ball.
Tight compact midfield when not in possesion, fullbacks pushing on adding width when we had the ball.
Defense was the backbone… Zonal marking, two covering compact midfielders, very quick release of the ball by the goalkeeper, punching over catching whenever possible.
It was all pretty much based on fluidity, speed of players moving from defense to attack, with little space between the players.
It’s all now becoming pretty much common practice at most top clubs. It’s the sort of football that at it’s best seen us tonk Man U and Real Madrid. I think if Rafa ever gets to manage a club who’s ambitions match his own and he’s given the money to match, we will see one hell of a team…
practically impossible to break down, and unstoppable in attack.
Roy learnt 442 from manuals. He’s a disciple of the fella called Allan Wade who’s theories were quite progressive when written in the 1970′s. He’s never changed his methods. He never needed to. He’s been quite succesful with them. World Cup qualification with Sweden, a few Swedish titles, 2 UEFA Cup finals, establishing Fulham in the premiership. My guess is he will stick with his ways. And after seeing them for the first time at Eastlands, I can’t pretend to be confident. But I’ve had my say, I’ll do me best to leave it at.
That’s why I came back in. Have me last word, try and explain me opinions and put to bed this idea that I’m just lashing out at Roy because I prefer Rafa…
I know people are reading my comments the way they are. But ffs stop reading them between the lines and adding 2 and 2 together and making 5.
I’m voicing real concerns and legitimate worries for the club.
I’m not on a childish vendetta to prove myself right. It’s not some petulant yearning for Rafa and unwarranted attack on Roy.
I’ve stated it many times, I wouldn’t have Rafa back. He’s gone. We’ve missed that boat. We need to move on. I’m just very worried we will move in the opposite direction to what we all want.
And it’s going to be hard trying to discuss that and games while steering clear of tactics, formations, players picked and so on.
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 #582 |
gazmaninaus
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 12:45 am
Keith, I don’t quite know what your aiming that post at me for, I was an avid supporter of Rafa and was fully aware of the injuries, players, owners etc.
.
I was broken when he left, even to the point of hoping he stayed to get sacked, so in some way that gave me hope he didn’t give the yanks a fucking minute of relief. I think from this type of supporter, thinking he was sacked instead of what the media portrayed takes the edge of disappointment.
.
Yes he was pushed and I acknowledge that.
.
So all in all Keith, I don’t know why you have directed your comment to me, all I’m trying to do in here is lift the gloom, because happy or sad it’s still the same situation, but the gloom does filter down to the team, and thats unfair.
.
By the end of this season, I could be the only person stupid enough to continue wanting RH as Manager, who knows but at the minute, 2 games in we should at least all be stupid enough to give the man a chance.
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 #583 |
somnath07in
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 3:47 am
Are we trying to bring in Konchesky?
Oh.. its getting worse every passing day.
Anything above 6th position and we should be happy.
@FS: Looks like your views are proving to be correct.
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 #585 |
sachem
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 8:27 am
FS
Two things:
One, I don’t know if you mean Kuyt became good and useful thanks to Rafa and his system, but that’s how I read your reasoning. Let me know of if I’m wrong about that. Anyway, I do think Rafa knew how to get the most out of Kuyt. In Rafa’s system, Kuyt flourished. He now has a lot of quality players at Inter, but none out wide with Kuyt’s unbelievable work rate and overall team-vitalizing abilities. That’s why Rafa would like to have him there.
There’s no doubt in my mind however, Kuyt is a player that could walk right in to most top teams around Europe. Perhaps not teams like Barcelona and Arsenal that require very specific and similar qualities in each player, but I’m certain most top managers out there would like to have Kuyt in their team. He is a quality player in his own right, not just in Rafa’s system. I think it’s fair to say he has proven this playing for Netherlands.
Secondly, I don’t think Roy ever managed Sweden’s national team, so I’m not sure what you mean with “World Cup qualification with Sweden”.
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 #586 |
Kiwi_Mark_LFC
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 8:57 am
I think FS really meant Switzerland whom who took to the 1994 World Cup (losing only one game in qualifying)…
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 #587 |
An Linn
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 10:43 am
FS – We’re not saying that you don’t support the club or the manager – to do so would be petulant at the least. But if we bring it down to the brass tacks – Rafa’s gone yes we’re all angry and pissed off about the way he was treated but c’est le vie.
Is Roy the best manger for Liverpool, no not by a longshot, is he the best manger we could get under the circumstances, yes apart maybe from Kenny (who I would have preferred to take over.
Now you have raised some very valid concerns about Roy’s ability and if I speak truthfully the smart money is on you being right, but we’re Liverpool fans and I know that you will be backing the manager to the hilt when it comes down to it.
Rafa’s leaving was the catalyst for our current escalated war agianst the thieves, i for one would accept Rafa as a causualty of war if it got rid of the owners which it looks like it might – every cloud and all that
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 #588 |
GGB
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 11:15 am
FS – I read these blog posts most days and I get the impression you know a few people. Any chance I could get your personal email to run something by you..?
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 #589 |
burgerman
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 11:30 am
If Roy isn’t given all the proceeds raised from forthcoming player sales, he should behave like a gent and resign.Konchesky?
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 #590 |
timmytorres
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 12:23 pm
He managed Switzerland Sachem.
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 #591 |
KeithSA
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 12:24 pm
Gaz apologies, it was a combination Of GD post and reading yours afterwards and combining the two. I looked back at the posts and it is aimed more at GD than you sorry.
This is for An Lin, Aurther and all the other that want to move and cannot understand why some of us can’t as well.
I was just trying to explain to the people that want to move swiftly along how close we where to becoming a real force once again and the huge opportunity we have missed by getting rid of Rafa for all the wrong reason. It was never about footballing reason but more about asset stripping to pay off the interest.
That it will take another 5 years to get back to last years level is painful and difficult to put aside. To go from a team challenging to a team trying to stay in the top 6 is difficult to swallow. If all those fans calling for Rafa’s head because finishing 7th just does not cut it, without taking into account the circumstance that I mentioned and the main one being the zero backing from top management and owners, complete undermining would be more accurate, had just sat back for a minute and understood the ramification we would still be in with a chance of salvaging the club.
Rafa was the only one standing in the way of the asset strippers, if he stayed they could not have sold to pay the interest, contractually he had final say and they could have been forced out sooner. The fans that grumbled, phoned in, gave interviews that it was all Rafa’s fault, he’s had enough time, enough money, too defensive, zonal marking etc gave the thieves the perfect excuse to oust him.
We know have the situation that we would be happy if we challenge for a top 4 spot instead of the title, with a fully fit squad we would have challenged under Rafa despite the spending from City and Spurs. We are seeing the talented youth being shipped out daily and players past their prime coming in.
So yes I am bitter, every time I see us play I think of the lost opportunity and wonder how long it will be before we get back into a position to challenge. I wonder who will be shipped out next or who will put in a transfer request. Will Torres be here next year? I blame Roy for the situation as well. Most other decent managers had turned the thieves down but he was only too glad to accept his dream job and then the thieves had their patsy to do whatever they wanted to do.
I would have preferred Fat Sam then maybe the reality would have sunk into the deluded fans that thought it was about football and not asset stripping and we could then call a spade a spade and really get the boycott and protest started. You see Roy was acceptable to the media and deluded fans that some how thought it would be better once Rafa was gone.
Pigeons Roost springs to mind.
Liverpool is meant to challenge and for 20 years we did not. If people think challenging for 5th , 6th and 7th is worth getting excited about then so be it, I do not. We don’t even get the Europa League early rounds over here as they don’t deem it interesting enough.
That says it all. Yes like the rest I would love to be proved wrong and will gladly eat humble pie just as long as my club is not destroyed. However I am not optimistic from what I have seen.
Sorry for the long post and I wont belabor the point again
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 #592 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 12:39 pm
The post of the month award goes to KeithSA! Summed it all up perfectly. Well apart from the Fat Sam bit maybe
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 #593 |
Rafalution
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 12:57 pm
Yes, nicely put/said Keith.
I was feeling down this morning, partly due to Johny Walker, partly due to the after effects from Monday’s game. So I decided to youtube YNWA (the one from the Chelsea CL semi-final), a bit of Fields Of Anfield Road, a few Torres goals…you know what I mean? And then it struck me. How long before we see those CL billboards at Anfield, how long before the likes of Barca grace Anfield again, even hearing that annoying CL anthem? I know, Rafa could not keep us in the CL last season. But I still felt optimistic that we would be back there. I’m sorry, I don’t have that feeling right now. And I’m not having a go at Roy after only a couple of games. It’s the owner situation as well, Purslow at the helm, players wanting to leave.
But maybe I’m just being a pessimist. Maybe we will suddenly start beating the likes of Citeh away & the Arse at home. Maybe the club will be bought, and we can get rid of the Wanks. But for some reason or the other, I am still feeling the after-effects of Monday’s game & it is one bad hangover. That game has not left me with a warm, fuzzy feeling – nor a lot of confidence.
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 #594 |
timmytorres
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 1:02 pm
Good to have you back Keith.I enjoy your posts.
On to tonight,i`m slightly concerned about tonight.This could be a very tricky tie.
The atmosphere will be deafening.
I wonder will Kely get a start?
With SG,FT Maxi and Agger left out Roy might not have any other option.
My team.
Reina
Johnson,carra,skrtel,Kelly
Lucas,poulson
Kuyt,Joe cole,Jova
Ngog?/Babel?
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 #595 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 1:06 pm
An Lin Sachem, I wrote that long post late last night, trying to explain that I wasn’t on some vendetta against Roy for some childish petulant reason.
Keith has just summed it all up pretty well. That’s how most of us people who backed Rafa felt. We were convinced under different circumstances, he was the man to take us back to the very top. I’d love to go on to say why, but I’ll stay to the topic.
Yes. Half asleep I typed in Sweden instead of Switzerland, but I was actually cutting the man some slack. He done a great job there with the national team and won the league title with a couple of clubs after leaving the national job.
He was like I said, considered a very forward inovator in his time. He was a disciple of this fella called Allen Wade, who rewrote the coaching manuals back in the 70′s. It was new and exciting stuff. It’s 40 years old. Roy has never changed his methods. We got a glimpse of them for the first time on Monday night. He’s pretty much stuck to what Rafa had drilled into the players for the first few games. He played a sort of mix of both methods against Arsenal. He went his own way at Man City….
It was suicidal.
If forgot to mention this yesterday…
I watched the game with a 69 year old red. He’s my mate’s brother, down here on holiday. He went to his first game in Anfield when he was 7. He hasn’t missed a home game since. Not one. Not one game in 62 years. And he only recently stopped going to the aways.
The man’s record is phenomenal. I sat in awe, listening to the old stories. His first season ticket cost 75p. Yes. Straight up. 75p in today’s money. The year they came out in 1965 and he’s kept and used it ever since.
He thinks Rafa Benitez is the worst – yes worst, even worse than Souness – in LFC’s history.
He think’s Lucas is the worst player he has ever seen in a red shirt.
He wanted to know nothing about money or politics. He insisted Rafa had had plenty of money and wasted it on people like Pennant. And he’s adamant that Roy will bring back the good times.
How do you argue with a fella like that?
I couldn’t.
I just battered him instead.
PS…
Rafa turned Kuyt into the player we have now, meaning the style, etc. I’d have Kuyt in any team I picked.
Oh yeah, the other fella rated him just a tad above Lucas.
True story.
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 #596 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 1:30 pm
I always forget to say somethings after reading the comments. But I meant to mention this an all…
With all the anti-owner stuff that’s being gone on, I got privvy to some inside info. Not being the big un. That just happened. It was nothing I done. I never set out to and I still don’t think I know much anyway.
One thing I have been told and really do believe…
Rafa was gunning for Purslow. He was next. While Rafa was on holiday, Purslow had a secret meeting with Broughton. Broughton took the view that Rafa had already seen off one CEO in Parry, and, for various reasons, thought it would be a bad thing if he downed Purslow aswell.
So, that was that. His fate was sealed. We know the rest, Purslow leaked the news to his media friends. They tested the water. There was no fans revolt. They pulled the trigger. They then installed Roy as he seemed the most suitable man from all angles…
Pleased the media, pleased the fans that had turned against Rafa, suited any new owners to have to deal with good old Uncle Roy rather than that troublesome Spaniard.
That’s it in a nutshell. I believe it to be true. It’s up to you what you make of it. Don’t shoot the messenger.
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 #597 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 1:37 pm
Sorry it should read…
There was no fans revolt. They pulled the trigger… They told Rafa he would be given no money and the job would be made untenable for him. They would basically let him rot with nothing and undermine him at every chance they got. They then installed Roy, on the spot, as he seemed the most suitable man from all angles. But they didn’t announce it to make it look as if the best man for the job had been searched for and found.
I know it’s hard to believe, that our own chairman and managing director would do this. But, think of all the other things we know they have done and it becomes a lot more believable.
One thing clear though…
I don’t think Roy was involved in any of this. I don’t blame him for our situation. I think he just wanted to go out at the top, finally getting a big job, where he could pit himself against the big boys.
Sorry, but to me, it seems like he’s bit off more than he can chew.
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 #598 |
An Linn
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 1:38 pm
Great post Kieth – I understand were your coming from alright, most of us here felt the same.
FS – i get that as well – how some people can thing Roy is a better manager than Rafa is beyond me, but he the best we could get.
i suppose it could be down to the old saying there is nothing worse than a young pessimist nor an old optimist – or to put it another way a pessimist is just a well informed optimist.
anyway this could start to go around in circles – so onto tonight – i think we could struggle without our mainstays – Turkey away is a horrible venue to go to but I’m going for a 1-1 draw with Ngog our scorer
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 #599 |
Dizzy
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 2:07 pm
Tonights team:
Reina
Jhonson
Kelly
Carra
Soto
Lucas
Poulsen
Aurellio
Kuyt
Cole
Ngog
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 #600 |
rome77
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 2:13 pm
If anyone’s up for a laugh get yourself onto the mainsite and read the comments.
If you want a battle of wits with unarmed men theres plenty on there.
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 #601 |
timmytorres
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 2:26 pm
Rome ,
As the old saying goes..
“Never argue with an idiot on the internet,he`ll bring you down to his level and beat you with experience”
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 #602 |
Arthur G. Posis
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 2:36 pm
Keith SA: Good post but allow me to retort,
You say Rafa was the ” only one standing in the way of the asset strippers” Now lets look at that sentence. Asset stripping – is this taking place?
Benayoun – left because his relationship broke down with Rafa
Riera – no great loss – but see reason above
Mascherano – wanted to leave last season due to family and personal reasons – would have still wanted to leave this year even if Rafa was still here
Alonso – (who’s departure was the catalyst for last season debacle) left after a break down in his relationship with Rafa (this in undeniable – please don’t argue this point lads) – notice a trend here?
Torres/Gerrard & Carragher – there is a lot of anecdotal evidence to suggest that 1, 2 or all 3 of them would have left had Rafa stayed on board
That leaves Inusa and Aquilani – hardly “asset stripping”
My second point. You suggest that we are now probably 5 years away from challenging again. This may be true but I put forward the notion that, looking at our squad and our current inability to compete in the transfer market, we wouldn’t have been able to challenge with Rafa on board either!
Put it this way. Let’s say Rafa stayed. We’d have brought in Jovanovic and perhaps Cole. Benayoun, Reira and Mascherano would all still be on there out. As previously mentioned, Gerrard and Torres could easliy have upped sticks but even if they didn’t – would have been deeply upset to have to play for a manager again who they had deep rooted issues with. Given we’d have the exact same resources that Roy has, I fail to see how we’d improve in any way AT ALL from last season.
We wont be challenging this season because our squad isn’t good enough and we’re currently unable to supplement it sufficiently with enough quality players.
Many are bemoaning Rafa’s departure but think lads. He had alienated the board and the owners (cunts they may well be) could and would not trust him. Rafa would have needed to bring in major reinforcements this summer but wouldn’t have been able to.
So what have we lost lads?
Rafa had many admirers in the way he channeled the fabled “Liverpool way” – he understood the Kop and it’s socialist ideals. He fought for the fans – maybe too hard. He gave us the best night of our footballing lives in 05 but there is no getting away from the fact that the only time any of his teams played anything resembling “championship winning football” were the beautifully but tragically short months between Feb and May 2009. The shackles were off in those months Alonso, Gerrard and Torres playing the best football of their lives. But it was fleeting – his mis-management of the Alonso situation meant by the time the next season came around, Rafa had essential committed managerial suicide – we’d lost one of the best midfielders in the world and he “replaced” him with a lad in crutches!
Come 2009/10 – the shackles were back in place and the end was nigh. The fact of the matter is, (and FS alluded to this a few posts ago) I and many others out there, never liked Rafa’s ultra cautious style and apart from those few months that I mentioned, our style during the Rafa years was always tactically astute but always low on entertainment value. Horses for courses – (FS and many others no doubt enjoyed this style) – but I believe that Rafa had gone stale – call it the rise of player power or whatever – but the team that he built could no longer play in the manner that Rafa wanted anymore.
Rafa may well have been forced out unfairly – but I do not believe that had he stayed, we’d be fairing any better this season. In fact we could well have fallen even further behind.
We have to move on with Roy – what else can we do?
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 #603 |
rome77
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 2:38 pm
Timmy
The Internet was suppose to bring knowledge to the masses.
But it underestimated the stupidity of the ignorant.
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 #604 |
KeithSA
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 2:39 pm
Two laughs in a minute great quote Timmy and FS the battered quip made me laugh. What’s happening with Maxi, he seems to have been frozen out as well. Are they trying to force him to hand in a transfer request?
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 #605 |
rome77
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 2:40 pm
And Arthur comes in to prove the point.
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 #606 |
roarin-red
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 2:58 pm
Came in here to go job hunting online(lost my job 3weeks ago) putting on radiohead and reading the comments was a bad fuckin’ idea….
off to B&Q to look at some ropes here…..ssiigghh.
how many times have man scum lost one of their opening games only to bounce back and win the league. don’t get me wrong we wont win it, but its simple enough to me. Torres & Gerrard manage to stay fit we can easily finish inside the top 4. Although keeping them fit is the problem.
on a brighter note i recently bought a book for women who’ve suffered domestic abuse. its called “cant cook, left hook”
cheer up men.
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 #607 |
Arthur G. Posis
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 2:58 pm
Oh most learned Rome77, I forgot I should bow down to your higher level of wisdom, you intellectual giant you.
This is the thing I hate most about this blog – disagree with any of The Elders, and your deemed “ignorant” and “stupid” by sages such as Rome77
As I have said (too many times) in here before – who gave you a monopoly on wisdom Rome?
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 #608 |
KENNY DALGLISH LFC LEGEND
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 3:03 pm
Arthur do you honestly think asset stripping has not begun? Do you think the owners are investing suficiently in the team?
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 #609 |
Arthur G. Posis
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 3:19 pm
Kenny:
The owners are not investing at all in our team. They haven’t been for the last 2 seasons. But are we being forced to sell our best players? No evidence at all of that.
If Torres, Reina and Gerrard were sold – I’d be 100% agreement with you.
So where is this asset stripping? Perhaps we have different ideas as to what it means
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 #610 |
sachem
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 3:21 pm
Arthur
It’s interesting how you present a lot of things as if they were hard facts, when actually a lot of it is dubious or even likely to be untrue.
So-called “shackles” coming on and off, players getting sick of how Rafa treats them and wanting to leave because of it, Mascherano heading out no matter which manager is in place.
None of these are hard, undeniable facts. This is like debating which colors are the most beautiful or ugly, before you even agree on what a color is or or the respective meanings of beautiful and ugly.
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 #611 |
corklfc
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 3:26 pm
Assets striping – Example
We are lightly to Mash for 18-20m
We purchase Polson for 4.2m
We sell Benny for 6m
We purchae Cole for 0m
Aqua goes on loan with an option to sell for 13m
If the club wasn’t asset stripping the transfer proceeds would be re-invested in replacment assets.
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 #612 |
Arthur G. Posis
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 3:28 pm
don’t usually post other people’s opinions in here – but this is from Paul Tomkin’s latest blog post –
“But I don’t necessarily think Benítez would automatically have done a better job at Liverpool this season. Frankly, I’m not sure what to think, such is the craziness surrounding the club.”
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 #613 |
corklfc
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 3:29 pm
also, you don’t have to be forced to sell players for it to be called asset stripping, but the fact we have crippling debts to service is a factor
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 #614 |
KENNY DALGLISH LFC LEGEND
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 3:36 pm
Arthur look at the question. I said do you think it has begun? We’ve been able to conjure up the money interest/loan payment this year by selling some dead wood + “want away” monster and a some young players. Next year how are the funds going to be raised?
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 #615 |
Arthur G. Posis
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 3:39 pm
CorkLFC: Mascherano hasn’t been sold yet. Like I said he more than likely would have been leaving whether Rafa was here or not. Roy has already refused one bid from Barca – what more can he or the club do? Masch wants out – plain and simple
CorkLFC and Sachem: Benayoun came out and said (in public) that he was leaving because of Rafa. FACT. Alonso gave an interview last year outlining his reasons why he left. FACT. – See where I’m coming from Sachem??? I’m not making this up. Now you can choose not to read these interviews – but they’re out there in the public domain.
On the Mascherano transfer I stated that it was more than likely he’d leave regardless of manager. Do you not recall him seeking to leave last season???? I never said he fell out with Rafa – just wants out of LFC. He too, has also given an interview stating this very fact a few weeks.
If I make these statements sound like cold “hard facts”, well it’s because I’m basing them on what the actual players have said themselves!
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 #616 |
rome77
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 3:41 pm
Arthur nobody gave me a monopoly on wisdom, but today you have the monopoly on stupidity and ignorance.
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 #617 |
Arthur G. Posis
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 3:49 pm
Kenny: I don’t think there is evidence of it happening – it may happen – especially if the Yanks are still in control.
But that’s kinda secondary to my point I made in my main loooong post. What I was saying was – I don’t think Rafa could have done much about what’s going on at the club. He’d be just as hamstrung as Roy is now. The players that have left and are about to leave would probably still have left. (Who knows what he would have done with Aquilani – but he barely played him when fit last season – so you can take a guess at what would have happened this season)
Throw in the fact that it looks like a fair few of the senior players would have been seriously unhappy had Rafa stayed, doesn’t make me believe that this year would have been all that much better than 2009/10
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 #618 |
Arthur G. Posis
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 3:50 pm
Rome77: And how am I ignorant or stupid?
Oh by the way, did your brain hurt while thinking of that “witty” response?
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 #619 |
KENNY DALGLISH LFC LEGEND
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 4:01 pm
“I do feel that Benítez is a better manager than Hodgson” who said this Arthur?
Listen I don’t think Benitez would have worked some miracle and at the end of the season we’d be celebrating number 19.
I do think a manager by being tatically more astute can gain better results overall with the same set of players. I think that’s what Rafa would have given us.
Rafa also had a long term vision that would have seen us dominate for a long time if that vision would have been backed.
I also think if Stevie G & Carra are running the show then they’d have to be got shot of. That can’t be allowed to happen. Taggart had the same problem and got rid of players(Beckham, Ince) who were getting too big for their boots or becoming a distraction. However he was allowed to reinvest the money he got.
Well it’s all a moot point but I’ll ask you this Arthur.
What is acceptable to you this season as regards where we finish? what should our aim be? What should accept from Roy?
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 #620 |
timmytorres
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 4:09 pm
Arthur,
Just one or two questions.
1.Don`t you think the Aqualini deal was a total football decision?
2.Do you believe roy when he said he`s loaned out to get the footy he can`t promise him and will come back the player we all want to see?
3.Do you believe Benny really left over Rafa?
Or was he using that as an excuse to jump off a sinking ship taking into consideration he left LFC 2-3 weeks AFTER Rafa left?
4.Do you believe the 16 million the club took in on transfers in january,not being re-invested in the squad would not be considered “assetstripping.
Not having a go now here Arthur and jumping on the bandwagon,i`d like to here your assesment.
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 #621 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 4:25 pm
Arthur when a club sacks a manager and replaces him isn’t the replacement suppose to be an improvement on what went before? It cost the club £8.5m to replace the manager. Ticket prices have increased. We should expect an improvement. Are we likely to get an improvement?
As for asset stripping. It doesn’t have to be as obvious as Gerrard and Torres being sold. It’s done more clever than that. Sell off fringe players and low profile players and replace them with free transfers and players who are cheaper. Since 2008 the squad has got thinner and thinner. It has declined in depth and quality. The club is making money in the transfer market and saving money on wages while the squad is decreasing in quality. This is asset stripping. Rafa fell out with the board because of this asset stripping. He tried to let the public know with his cryptic press conferences.
When the team started getting bad results nobody took any notice of Rafa’s excuses, they didn’t look at the bigger picture, they just looked at the poor performances, criticised tactics, his relationship with players and so on. Rafa got sacked when the board felt they could do so without a major backlash. If the board didn’t care about the fans reactions they would have sacked him back when they were meeting with Klinnsmann. FS blames the idiots and traitors for allowing the board and owners to believe they would be able to sack Rafa without a severe backlash. He believes that if the fans were of the same character as 40 years ago they wouldn’t have dared sack Rafa. He believes we’d have kept our top class manager and drive out the cunts at board level. This is why he laments the likes of Digger and Burgerman. He apportions blame to them and people like them. Don’t you get it? I didn’t at first but I do now.
Keith said he would have preferred Fat Sam to Roy. I think he said this because Fat Sam is popular in the media but also has the balls to call a spade a spade. Maybe Fat Sam would have took the job, realised what was going on and told everyone in no uncertain terms. Because of his popularity the media would have took notice. Fans would lap up the media response and we’d all be driving our board out of our club. All united.
But no. The board got Hodgson in. Someone they were sure would keep his mouth shut and just be happy to be here while the likes of Aquilani, Insua, Benayoun, Nemeth, Mascherano slip away out the door while their replacements are not as good, but a lot cheaper. If Roy allows this kind of activity to take place without piping up then in my opinion he is complicit in conning the fans.
You talk of Carra, Gerrard and Torres saying they did not want to play for Rafa. Please let me know the source of your information. I remember Torres quoted as saying that we need 5 quality players to challenge and that he was not unhappy about not being in the champions league but wanted assurances that the club would be moving forward. I didn’t read quotes attributed to Gerrard or Carra about their future at the club. Did you?
My opinion is this.
Gerrard is happy if he is winning, he’ll sulk if he isn’t, simple as that. Carra just wants to play his football. The devil himself could manage LFC and Carra would just get on with it. Torres wants medals at club level and didn’t leave his home town club to languish in midtable in the PL. Fair enough that.
Benny was on the bench and not happy, same as Riera, they both threw toys out of the pram. Masch wanted out due to family reasons. The only player whose relationship with the manager broke down was Alonso. It was a shame but it happens.
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 #622 |
KENNY DALGLISH LFC LEGEND
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 4:39 pm
LB – I can’t argue with that.
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 #623 |
Arthur G. Posis
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 5:10 pm
I have been multi-tasking all day at work – am heading out but wanna quickly answer some of the questions thrown at me:
Kenny: “I do feel that Benítez is a better manager than Hodgson” I said that – what does that prove? Did I hire Roy? Nope. Did I sack Rafa – again No. I wasn’t a huge fan of Rafa and I’m currently undecided about Roy
Timmy to answer your questions:
1) No idea why Aquilani was loaned out – perhaps Roy didn’t fancy him – don’t think we’ll know that for a while
2) See above answer
3) I believe Benny left because of Rafa. It has been said that Rafa had told Benny to look for another club at the end of last season
4) My view on “asset stripping” would be the sale of players without the consent of the manager. I can see other people have varying views on this.
The crux of my point today is that Rafa or no Rafa – we would be in a similar shitty situation. And that we should back Roy
LB – a good post. But can you not see the contradiction. You defended Keith’s post that Rafa was the only one to protect us from the “asset strippers” but as you mentioned – this form of “asset stripping” *by your definition (selling off of fringe players) has been taking place since 2008. How exactly was Rafa stopping this?
we all know the real villains of the piece are H&G and it’s why us fans are so divided and there is so much in-fighting. Saying Roy is somehow complicit in all this is a bit far fetched. You ask me for proof of where Gerrard and Carragher said they were unhappy with Rafa but I can equally turn around to you and say where is the proof that Roy has been told to sell Insua/Nemeth (neither who were good enough in my eyes) and loan out Aquilani?
I will continue to defend Roy until he has at least 10 games or so under his belt. As I’ve been banging on for a while…regardless of who was in charge I always thought this was gonna be one horrible season.
Id like people to answer this directly (seeing as I’m doing a lot of sword fighting here ) How would our season have panned out had Rafa not been sacked? Given how poor last year was and the terrible body language of some of the senior players – would Rafa been able to turn it around??
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 #624 |
KENNY DALGLISH LFC LEGEND
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 5:31 pm
I’ll answer you Arthur.
I think he’d finish higher than Roy will do. But we’ll never know.
I agree Rafa or no Rafa this is where we would be but I’d rather have Rafa fighting G&H than Roy letting them do what they want.
How long before we see the same players with the same terrible body language?
Are you saying that money has no part to play in the players being sold/loaned and the cheaper/free options coming in? Is it just a co-incidence that the replacements are cheaper than the ones being sold?
Are you saying you believe all the players who have gone/going are decisions being made by Roy?
You forgot to answer my question – What is acceptable in your opinion this season? What should we be realistically aiming for with Roy at the helm?
Trezeguet coming in? Another player who was a “big name” at the end of his career to appease the fans.
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 #625 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 5:38 pm
There was no contradiction in my post at all. I never said Rafa would protect us from the asset strippers but he would have called them out and wouldn’t have kept his mouth shut while the club push the likes of Insua and Aquilani out of the back door. He’d be telling us that we need 5 players to compete for the top 4 because Spurs and City have spent money. He wouldn’t want to steady the ship. He’d want to get back into the elite. That is the ambition of a winner. Maybe it would have put the club under more pressure to sell, I don’t know. But I prefer a manager speaking in those terms than a manager who seems to be accept mediocrity.
You can say all you want about what is farfetched and what isn’t. If a manager allows his squad to be weakened under his nose without complaint then in my opinion he is complicit.
Under Rafa I am sure we would not have been slaughtered at Man City and Aquilani would be in the squad. With our current squad and lack of serious injury I think we could finish top 4. With Roy I think no higher than 6th.
The body language was terrible last year because they were losing a lot of matches. You don’t really see players used to winning remain upbeat when they are losing. Ever seen Roger Federer’s body language when he is getting a hiding? Not great.
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 #626 |
KeithSA
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 5:44 pm
Thank you LB for climbing in and explaining before I did. The Fat Sam throw away line was nothing as devious but it would have been less acceptable to the fans and confirmation that the board did not give a shit. It might have galvanized the fans into more action. However on reflection Sam would not have put up with the boardroom shit and would have created a stir if he thought he was getting a raw deal. Still hate the prick.
Arthur LB explained the insidious asset stripping to the T. However one more thing by selling the youth we have no future plan to combat the rich clubs. We should be doing the opposite.
Arthur you where always one of the most critical of Rafa and his tactic, God knows what you thought of Ged Eye (I hated the way we played then) but you always couch the constant criticism with I did not want him to leave just to give you something to fall back on.
You are twisting the Alonso debate to suite your argument. I am not to sure what interview your read but the reality was at that stage is Alonso had two average seasons and as usual we did not have the transfer funds and Rafa had to sell in order to buy. I remember the debate on the site and a lot, including myself, thought it was a good move. We would have liked to keep both but thought Barry might edge it in terms of results. Rafa wanted both but was forced to try and raise funds. Barry deal fell through and Alonso had a blinder of a season after the kick up the backside.
He got an offer from Real and the rest was history. Spanish player going home after 5 years, record purchase (30 mill) . Yes in the interviews he did say he was hurt and upset at Rafa wanting to sell him, but that was never the reason he left. 30 mill and Real Madrid was the reason or else he would still be here. He can thank Rafa for the kick because without it Real would never have come in for him.
It is very easy to twist things here and there, especially after the fact when you have perfect hindsight. The Benny issue is laughable. He leaves Liverpool because Rafa would not start him, this is his justification, goes to Chelsea, bigger wages and will sit on the bench a lot more than he ever did at Liverpool. Money talk he is justifying his move, the same as Crouch when he left.
The reason it is more apparent at Liverpool is we do not have the funds to reinvest the money from the sale back into the club because we have the thieves in charge. That why United carry on smoothly, regardless of the sale of Mr Posh Spice, Nostril hair and Wanker.
These decisions where forced on Rafa otherwise we would know be looking at Alves, Silva, Barry, Turin, Alonso teaming up with Masch, Gerrard and Torres.
The months you mentioned where we blew everybody of the park was when things started to click. That was Rafa’s vision and plan coming together. It takes longer without the money to move quickly. Last year was an anomaly for all the reason we have discussed ad norsium. Your stance has no substances to it and is coming across as petulant.
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 #627 |
bhavster
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 5:59 pm
there’s a game in 20 minutes…
Liverpool: Reina, Kelly, Carragher, Kyrgiakos, Johnson, Aurelio, Lucas, Poulsen, Kuyt, Cole, Ngog.
Subs: Gulacsi, Pacheco, Babel, Spearing, Shelvey, Skrtel, Eccleston.
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 #628 |
KENNY DALGLISH LFC LEGEND
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 6:00 pm
I live in London and the pigeons are coming home to roost big time! Every time I come in to work all the guys are on at me about LFC. It’s tough to take but do you know what’s toughest? Listening to these zombies trot out what they’ve read or listened to in the media.
I saw an article in the mirror today or was it yesterday? It said “Woy warns Wafa” Anything stand out in that headline? The honeymoon period is nearly over for Roy. Yes the same reporter who was slagging Rafa all last year now starting to take the proverbial pee out of Roy Hodgson. And people just lap up this kind of crap. Oh dear oh dear oh dear! any more results like the man city one and the vultures will be circling.
It’s not over yet though, another reporter in the same paper said the Man City result was like the bad old days in Rafa Benitez’s day. I can’t remember being completely out played by too many teams in the manner City did us.
If those bad old days bring me in the next 5 years 1 champions league trophy and another final and an FA Cup win given the current situation I’d bite your hand off for it. If we were to tonk manure 4-1 at castle greyskull yes I’ll have the bad old days back.
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 #629 |
KENNY DALGLISH LFC LEGEND
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 6:19 pm
We’d probably have had David Villa as well Keith along with Vidic.
Another thing that winds me up is this laughable notion that Rafa went out and spent £17 million on Aquilani. The way the deal was done Rafa could bring in a player he thought could be useful or at the very least a replacement for Alonso for the peanuts on hand at the time. I don’t doubt there were other players out there Rafa wanted but no manager is going unveil his new signing by saying “well I wanted so n so but I didn’t have the cash so this is the best I could do”
The big difference for me between the transfer policy of say Ged Eye and Rafa is pro rata Ged Eye had more money to spend. He willingly bought Diouf over Anelka now that is chucking money away.
With the equivalent type of money ie £10 million or over Rafa has had more successes.
Now Roy is in the same position as Rafa was, he has to sell and buy a cheap replacement. I would trust Rafa more in this than Roy based on past transfer history.
I fear for us I really do this season. I’ll not be happy to see Roy fail nor do I want to see him fail. I’d love his face to be super-imposed on the flag by our own fans not Sky but I just cannot see it happening. I can only hope that H&G are forced out soon.
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 #630 |
rome77
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 6:22 pm
Arthur
One definition of ignorance could be asking a question like
“how am I ignorant or stupid?”
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 #631 |
Bulgar
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 7:06 pm
Trabzonporn.
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 #632 |
Aitch
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 7:14 pm
Since Arthur chose to only quote one line from the Tomkins article…
…a line that supported a point he was trying to make, which he took out of the contect of the rest of the article…
… here is the rest of the article.
It would do you all a LOT of good to take a deep breath, set your preconceptions, be they “positive” or “negative” aside and read this objectively…
http://tomkinstimes.com/2010/08/in-fairness-to-roy/
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 #633 |
Arthur G. Posis
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 7:26 pm
Rome77: Ssssh!!! – we’ve moved on you sad case – this is a forum about football by the way
Keith: Few things: ” you always couch the constant criticism with I did not want him to leave just to give you something to fall back on” – I criticized Rafa last season yes, I thought he and he alone carried the responsibility for the awful team performances (like any manager) and for his ludicrous transfer of Aquilani. Had I been posting in KopBlog during 2008/2009 I would have praised Rafa when it was due. But all in all I never took to the man’s style. That said, this June I couldn’t see anyone suitable willing to take the job on, so I felt it would be best to stick with Rafa. Better the devil you know and all that. It’s not some convenient get-out clause that you seem to think it is Keith.
Secondly: “Your stance has no substances to it and is coming across as petulant.” As the Dude says – “Well..that’s just, like, your opinion, Man”
But seriously, what a ridiculous thing to say – I have outlined many reasons for my arguments – you can choose to ignore/disagree with them as is your want. To call them petulant is laughable – FS, Aitch, KeithSa, Rome77 – when I disagree with you guys – I’m not doing it for the craic – I’m airing my own opinions. I think its a very immature response to label someone “ignorant”, “stupid” or “petulant” just because you don’t like what I’m saying. I respect all your posts and always try and respond coherently and honestly
This Blog has become stale with far too much negativity and nostalgia-ridden posts. Rafa is gone. Move on. Gerry needs to post more often or the whole thing just becomes a whole gigantic mess.
anyway game is back on – don’t fancy our chances at this stage – can’t string more than 3 passes together
|
 #634 |
yanksarewanks
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 7:32 pm
I really miss the days when everyone used to bitch and moan about “wasting all that possession” under rafa and only winning 1-0, or god forbid, drawing. We’re getting played off the pitch by some shite turkish side. We’ll be lucky to finish in the top half of the table if this is how we play.
Oh well, i hope the diggers of the world enjoy how beautifully we’re playing now that the “shackles have been taken off.”
i also hope stevie G saw messi’s hattrick this past weekend. I guess maybe he could still learn a thing or 2 from joe cole though.
|
 #635 |
Aitch
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 7:51 pm
So much back-n-forth over the last 2 days… with far too many people arguing points that are frankly not worth arguing.
Example.
Arthur, you counter the “asset stripping” argument with the argument that the Yanks have been asset stripping for years and Rafa was powerless to do anything about it…
Addin… “I don’t think Rafa could have done much about what’s going on at the club. He’d be just as hamstrung as Roy is now. The players that have left and are about to leave would probably still have left.”
But this ignores two important points.
Yes they were assets stripping for a long time. They sold Alonso for 30 million and Rafa never saw a dime of it to reinvest.
Rafa is very often criticized for bringing in Aqualani and not bringing in a striker, when “everyone could see that was what we needed” but he’d already done the deal fro Aqua AND been promised the funds from Alonso AND pretty much done the negotiations for Arda Turan…which would have been a done deal had he been given half of the Alonso money… but they pulled the money on him.
Rafa did not at that point have final say in transfers… he was at that time, in virtually the same boat as Roy is now (though I’d argue he still had more power simply coz of the nature of Roy coming in under, what I believe are, very specific parameters.)
There was frustration, but there was also the “2nd place and here we go” feel good factor coz “everyone who won the Prem, finished 2nd the season before”
…So Rafa took that 2nd place finish and used it to force them into renegotiated his contract to include final say on transfers.
G&H had nothing to lose. If he won the Prem, then all the lies would be forgotten through that feel-good factor… they’d have delivered…
…and if he didn’t, they’d use it against him.
The 2nd point is that because of his final say clause, we would have been in a different position now.
The same primary players (Benny, Riera) may well have been sold, but how they were sold and the deals done, might well have been better… of course we’ll never know… just as you cannot say that it wouldn’t have made any difference, I can’t say that it would have… but it might!
I doubt Rafa would have loaned out Aqualani, in fact I’ll bet he’d have started against Citeh.
People love to trot out “he didn’t play him last season when he was fit” asthough he was actually fit and firing on all cylinders. The lad put in some good cameos, but in each and everyone of them he was baked, browned and ready to serve by the 60 minute mark. No, I’m sorry, fit he was not… in a squad depleted by injuries, staffed by kids (Ngog, Insua, Ayala) and journeymen (Riera, Kyrgiakos) and new players trying to find their feet in the Prem (Maxi) … which some do right away and some take time to (Like Valencia & Malouda for instance)
Then there are lads like Nemeth… the highest profile of the “emerging talent” that has been sold on, but by no means the only one.
Now Nemeth may never have come good… only time will tell how well he does in Greece… and if he moves onward and more importantly upward… from there.
But he is highly rated.
Rumors still abound about the futures of Kuyt, Insua… both players whom Rafa would not have considered selling, (and had the power from summer 09 to do so) unless he could be sure to upgrade them.
A choice that is not on the table for Roy.
The simple fact of the matter is Roy is here to steady the ship and not take us forward.
But far too many of you are ignoring that since the Yanks took over… that was Rafa’s job too.
Rafa has been steadying the ship since the Yanks took over…
The difference is, that wasn’t the conditions of his hire and he refused to play that role…
… he continued to press for success, rather than steady the shi, and last summer, just as he finally wretched the control to press us forward, fate cast its fickle hand in our direction and the whole plan went tits up.
And far too many fans threw the baby out with the bathwater.
I still maintain it was player performance… or more to the point, lack thereof… more than formation…. that just as it did last season…. led to the result at Man City…
But some want to insist that it “would NOT have made a difference” if Rafa had been on the sidelines instead of Roy…
And granted, it MAY have made NO difference having Rafa on the sidelines for that game… but he’s more tactically astute than Roy, so it is safer to say that it MIGHT HAVE made a difference…. than categorically state that it would NOT have.
Again… you can’t have it both ways… you can’t state thet rafa is gone and we need to get over it and then state that if Rafa had been in charge it would have made no difference.
It ignores the larger fact-file upon which all probabilities (as opposed to certainties) are based.
The only thing that is certain is that we lost, playing 4-4-2 with thoseplayers.
What is NOT certain by any means is that the result would have been different if…
1Roy had played 4-5-1, or
2Roy had played 4-4-2 with different players, or,
3Rafa had been in charge and played 4-5-1, or
4 Rafa had played 4-2-3-1
those are all possibilities with variant probabilities as outcomes… not certainties.
But some have higher percentages based on varying parameters.
|
 #636 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 8:09 pm
While I was reading Aitch’s epic we just scored 2 goals. The game is on ESPN and I don’t subscribe so I’m watching BBC live updates online.
Nice turn around eh
|
 #637 |
Arthur G. Posis
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 8:16 pm
Great win for the lads in difficult conditions. Yet again, a much improved 2nd half performance. Now if we can just get that first half right
Pacheco had a nice little cameo – really exciting player. Ngog missed an absolute sitter but worked his balls off. We still need a more experienced back-up striker but Ngog is improving all the time. His presence alone created our 1st goal.
Kelly and Johnson were very good – especially Glenda – was bombing forward all night long. First half we never kept the ball but slowly but surely we grabbed the game by the scruff of the neck and fully deserved to win.
should be a great confidence booster for roy and the lads – well done!
|
 #638 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 8:21 pm
Lets hope so Arthur! I missed so can’t comment on the performance. Feared the worse when I saw 1-0.
|
 #639 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 8:27 pm
Liverpool’s Dirk Kuyt: “A lot of people have said a lot of things about my future, but for me it is at Liverpool. I like it here at the club and I want to stay here and win things.”
|
 #640 |
Aitch
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 8:28 pm
I didn’t get to see it either LB, and I gave up my e-season ticket, so I couldn’t even listen to Stevie Hunter (god I miss Stevie Hunter’s commentary.)
But from the text commentary… (and granted, you can’t always trust that)
…it sounded a lot more to me like we’d be…
…breathing a sigh of relief
… rather than…
… taking any confidence away from it.
But hey, I guess that’s just me being negative
|
 #641 |
rafamuffin
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 8:30 pm
Something Roy Hodgson should consider
‘All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing’
Edmund Burke 1770
|
 #642 |
Aitch
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 8:35 pm
And I’d like to add this, since I’ve seen very little mention of it.
Some heated debate regarding 4-4-2 and all that… but what about
“Agger is suffering from the concussion he picked up against Arsenal”
and
“Stevie G is suffering from a recurrence of the back problem he has from time to time”
and
“Maxi is in bed with a bout of gastroenteritis”
So those statements might go a long, long way to explaining why, against Citeh…
Agger didn’t do very well at left back,
And why Stevie G was off the boil
And why Maxi didn’t feature to give us “more natural width than Kuyt”
Its not always cut-n-dry, or crystal clear…
reminds me of a game where Sami Hyppia played horribly and was heavily criticized and much discussion ensued about him being “past it”…
… only to find out he’d had flu, been vomiting all morning, and played the whole game with a spiking temperature
… and that’s not the only example of our knowledgeable fan base jumping the gun.
|
 #643 |
Lurgankop
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 8:40 pm
Arthur, you are entitled to your opinion and do so with gusto but then you detail:
-o-
This Blog has become stale with far too much negativity and nostalgia-ridden posts. Rafa is gone. Move on. Gerry needs to post more often or the whole thing just becomes a whole gigantic mess.
-o-
So should we change what we have been saying for the last 2-3 years just to make you happy? Should Gerry, after finding a new job, post blogs more often to make you happy? This blog is what it is.
Actually I find it offensive you playing the nostalgia card. If you have learnt anything about the people in here is that they will do almost anything for LFC to be successful. They are not trying to prove a point just to be right to the detriment of LFC!
For example, if someone had come to me and said that they had come back from the future, Marty McFly style, flux capacitor and all, and had seen that Roy conquered the world with Liverpool playing his 4-4-2 formation then I would have said ‘Cheers Rafa for everything that you have done and, BTW, the door is over there and don’t forget your coat on the way out.’
The reality is different though and if you don’t ‘get it’ after the excellent and well thought-out posts from FS, Aitch, LB, Rome, Keith et al, then I am not sure if you ever will understand what us dinosaurs (sorry for including everyone in there) are trying to say.
Finally, you note about the negativity in here. This comes from a guy who says ‘Well there’s nothing that we can do against the four fuckers’. It’s funny how people can pick and choose when to be positive or not.
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 #644 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 9:36 pm
Arthur I don’t know whether you’re stupid or ignorant as others have said.
I know you’re obstinate and stubborn though and that probably makes you miss a lot of things…
Masch was in contract talks with Rafa at the end of last season.
Torres, in his last interview, said “Rafa was like a second father to him and that he had made him the player he is.”
He also only decided to stay after Purslow himself guaranteed new investment before the transfer window shut and new players coming in.
Carra has done nothing but praise Rafa since he left.
Steven Gerrard, granted has said nothing. I’d have liked him to say something on whether he would have stayed or gone if Rafa had, but the fact is the lad has said nothing.
Bennayoun, praised Rafa to the hilt. Suddenly talked to Bascombe at The News Of The World, (no axe to grind there, eh)and was suddenly happy to be part of Chelsea’s squad instead of demanding to be played week in week out.
Maybe, just maybe, being on double the wages might have something to do with that. But I’m an easy going sort of fella, so let’s give you that one, just to be fair.
So, there’s a dubious one out of four.
But I will bow to your superior knowledge if you can prove the others would have left if Rafa had stayed.
So, instead of telling us to dig up these links where all four players said they would leave if Rafa stayed, put them in here for us to all see.
As for asset stripping…
the three drawings of the “New Anfield” have so far cost the club over 50 million quid.
We are paying Kop Football nearly as much in interest as RBS for the favour of getting us in debt.
Could go on and on on this point, but frankly, I’m shocked it’s even been posed, so shocked I really can’t be arsed dignifying it.
As for where Rafa would have finished this season?
I don’t know.
Who does?
FFS, you’d have to ask Mystic Meg.
But if the idea behind it is, would Rafa have been able to keep a demoralised squad, (the squad he’d supposed to have demoralised) challenging, probably not,
But I know he wouldn’t have overseen that debacle on Monday night. And seeing you want to give Feel Good Factor Roy some time, well why not ask that question in a few games time?
And again I could go on, but fuck it. What’s the point?
I honestly mean that, what is the point?
There’s none so blind as those who refuse to see.
And in all truth, I only came into say, Thank Fuck for that tonight.
In the big picture of things, it would have probably been better for us to go out tonight. But before you question that, I’ll just remind you…
whether it’s Roy, Rafa or fuckin Rasputin, LFC is a main stay of my life and I fuckin hate it when they lose a toss nevermind a game. But I honestly fear, we’ve lost the war.
|
 #645 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 9:41 pm
PS, as I said the other night LB, Kuyt’s love of Liverpool may just well keep him here.
I’ll try to dig the interview up for you. It’s dead funny. He doesn’t live in Chester or Southport like the rest of them. He lives in the city. He sends his kids to normal school there, and does things like taking the family to the chippy on a Friday night.
A great lad.
But before anyone thinks I’d ever have a dig at Mascher for not liking it, of course I bloody wouldn’t. That lad’s from a complety different culture and way of life.
He even struggles with the language. And a Dutch gutural Chhhhkkkkkk like on the end of Fuck, doesn’t sound that much different from a Scouse one.
|
 #646 |
Lurgankop
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 9:57 pm
Sooooooo, onto a positive note. I thought that the lads done quite well tonight especially after the crappy start.
The 2nd half was especially pleasing and Cole was a thorn in their side. Kelly also looks like a decent prospect and maybe should get a nod in the near future. However, he did let in 2-3 centres that had no business to get by him but that can be worked out. Also, late in the 2nd half there was acres up that wing but I didn’t see him exploit it – actually didn’t see him in the picture – but in time he will know when to go.
Pretty pleased with the performance on the whole by the lads.
|
 #647 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 9:57 pm
You know what, I’m trying to work me way through this. After reading some of the drivel, I just can’t be arsed.
Roy Hodgson has been to UEFA cup finals in his career. That’s it. The pinacle of his achievments.
Rafa took us to two European Cup Finals in 3 seasons.
End of.
Night night.
|
 #648 |
Arthur G. Posis
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 10:41 pm
LurganKop: “The reality is different though and if you don’t ‘get it’ after the excellent and well thought-out posts from FS, Aitch, LB, Rome, Keith et al, then I am not sure if you ever will understand what us dinosaurs (sorry for including everyone in there) are trying to say.”
so FS, LB, Aitch, Rome, Keith’s posts are “excellent and well thought out”…but mine aren’t because…..hmmmm..let me think..oh thats right..you don’t agree with my posts…ahhh now I have it..
FS: “I know you’re obstinate and stubborn though and that probably makes you miss a lot of things…” – jaysus FS I could say the very same things to you my good man
The majority on here are sympathetic to Rafa – fair play. I enjoy some of the banter here but all this Roy bashing and weeping over Rafa’s departure is becoming boring..but Ill stick to my guns..and you never know what might happen this season..
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 #649 |
Lurgankop
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 10:53 pm
Nah Arthur, there you again.
FFS man, LFC is in grave trouble, from which we may never recover, and you’re coming out with:
- I’ll stick to my guns
- you’ll never know what might happen this season
FS et al have laid it on the line what would happen and have been pretty much 100% correct:
- the supporters who contributed to Rafa being sacked are nowhere to be seen
– where is digger now
- where are the CBC
- who is in control of the transfers
- who is in control of LFC
so you
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 #650 |
Lurgankop
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 11:02 pm
sorry got cut off there…
anyway I am fucking off to bed but Arthur mate, please read the posts again from Keith, LB and FS and, for this time, put aside your beliefs and try to take on board what they are saying.
Also, factor in 20-30-40-50 years of service and you may realise why some people, having seen the good and bad times, have a different (negative) take on things.
See you tomorrow buddy
|
 #651 |
KENNY DALGLISH LFC LEGEND
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 11:29 pm
nobody’s weeping over Rafa, it’s a debate over who’s best for Liverpool and whether we’ve downgraded by appointing roy. You bashed Rafa all last season arthur.
What was your thoughts on asset stripping? 50 million for some plans for example? and what is acceptable for roy this season? Where should we expect to finish?
|
 #652 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 11:57 pm
I wonder how Derby County fans reacted after Brian Clough fell out with the chairman and got the sack. Their club went into terminal decline. Its not the same situation as LFC but its a similar concept.
I wonder if Real Madrid fans bemoan the fact the club sacked Del Bosque.
Newcastle fans were too stupid to realise they fucked up after hounding Bobby Robson out. In fact that could be the most comparable situation to Liverpool. I remember the media getting after Bobby Robson. He couldn’t control the players they said, lost the dressing room, they didn’t respect him, he was too old. They were talented players but they needed discipline. A hard no nonsense manager. So they get Graham Souness. Lol! That was the beginning of the end.
|
 #653 |
Arthur G. Posis
Posted on August 27, 2010 @ 12:12 am
Lurgan my man, what do you want me to say? FS and all are right in everything they say??? No…they’re not….not in my opinion. But they have their views and I have mine. I believe I’m right and can’t be swayed on a number of issues…
take me as I am
oh and I have 22 years experience of following the Reds, so I have seen the good, the bad and the Souness!
|
 #654 |
rome77
Posted on August 27, 2010 @ 12:15 am
Arthur
When i do bash Roy ill give my reasons and also try and provide a alternative reason/excuse for whatever im bitching about.
“for his ludicrous transfer of Aquilani.”
Gaz said much the same thing and i answered him . #278
Go read that then lets pretend the 5 mill instalment wouldnt of gone missing if we didnt spend it.
Then if you can be arsed go read #269 you didnt answer my question regarding Aquillani
But what you did do was continue with your stupid claim as recently as #632
So what is it stupidity ignorance or are you just continuing with the “Sack Rafa” theme that you willingly supported last season with a lot of bullshit accusations that you repeated today with your Torres was going to leave if Rafa didnt and similar shit you pulled out of your arse.
And incredibly you have the cheek to say lets get behind Roy,
you hardly qualify for cheerleader of the year do you .
G&H have been pissing on your leg for 3 years and you still think its raining.
Ssssh!!! indeed
|
 #655 |
guinnessdrinker
Posted on August 27, 2010 @ 12:42 am
he’s just the coach at inter not the manager!
|
 #656 |
axchoice
Posted on August 27, 2010 @ 2:06 am
LB #652,
Exactly my sentiments comparing us to Newcastle!
I was telling a friend our fans are like Newcastle’s, and we may end up like them sacking manager after manager.
I’d like to poll our thoughts for the upcoming game against the Mancs at Old Toilet. Football is just so unpredictable. My guess is that only 2 situations would happen:
1) We’d a draw or even a narrow win ala Gerard Houllier style footie
2) We’d get thrashed badly like the game against the other Mancs.
Thoughts?
|
 #657 |
YNWAlancey
Posted on August 27, 2010 @ 2:42 am
Got to catch up the last 200 blogs, but I’m wondering what RBS is thinking about the obvious dismantling of LFC by the “owners”. The future is looking worse by the day, wage bill Is being cut, sure Cole is on a fair whack, but with all the sales I’m sure we’re alot lower in wages this year…
Sorry it’s been awhile to respond to the Lucas debate Aitch, but I’ve been thinking about it and quite frankly we aren’t going to buy any player that’s better than Lucas, as I’m sure all will agree that he’s no Lionel Messi. I suppose we have to start accepting that LFC is no longer a real threat to the likes of ManU, ManC, Chelsea, Real Madrid, Inter and Barca.
We haven’t spent/recruited world superstars, in fact we’ve spent so little in the transfer market that I wouldn’t be surprised if a Championship team has spent more…
|
 #658 |
YNWAlancey
Posted on August 27, 2010 @ 2:42 am
Got to catch up the last 200 blogs, but I’m wondering what RBS is thinking about the obvious dismantling of LFC by the “owners”. The future is looking worse by the day, wage bill Is being cut, sure Cole is on a fair whack, but with all the sales I’m sure we’re alot lower in wages this year…
Sorry it’s been awhile to respond to the Lucas debate Aitch, but I’ve been thinking about it and quite frankly we aren’t going to buy any player that’s better than Lucas, as I’m sure all will agree that he’s no Lionel Messi. I suppose we have to start accepting that LFC is no longer a real threat to the likes of ManU, ManC, Chelsea, Real Madrid, Inter and Barca.
We haven’t spent/recruited world superstars, in fact we’ve spent so little in the transfer market that I wouldn’t be surprised if a Championship team has spent more…
|
 #659 |
gazmaninaus
Posted on August 27, 2010 @ 7:14 am
Rome do you have absolute proof that Roy sent Aqualani packing, doesn’t appear to me Roy has much say in anything at the moment.
.
Seems to me he’s one of those coaches who wear tracksuits to games. Just concentrating on coaching his team.
.
Stop blaming Roy, he took a job anyone of us on here would be honored to be offered, regardless of how bad the situation was. We’d jump at the chance just so we had permanent seats at all games.
.
Roys in a tough position, and lets face it if big buck owners come in, then he’s probably gone, so they went for the spack filler type coach. Good luck to him though he’s giving it his all, and thats all anyone can ask.
.
Ps has everyone forgot, Hicks told everyone who would listen, his was a leveraged buy out of Liverpool, now I may not be a financial guru, but I do know leveraged buy outs are about asset stripping, with a wider cheaper expansion, such as selling off the name then making the product in China, etc.
.
He has made no bones about that one, so lets get back to blaming him and that dumb fuckwit Moores.
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 #661 |
gazmaninaus
Posted on August 27, 2010 @ 7:46 am
Lurgan, I don’t think we’ll see much of this money, alleged to be around 18 million pounds all up, what a fucking disaster. Mash you have just shaft an organisation who saved you from obscurity.
.
Who is negotiating at our club, fuck me dead, Barcs just sold Toure for shitloads.
.
Ah well no use grizzling over spilt milk, Mash I hope you fall in curdled muck and pull a fucking hammy while Messi is shagging your stupid fucking wife. Ah well all the best for the future.
|
 #662 |
5yearplan
Posted on August 27, 2010 @ 8:07 am
I’ll say it again just so i can make myself clear on the issue
Fuck Roy Hodgson, he isnt as good a manager as our previous manager by a country mile, but I can forgive him that.
What I can’t forgive is his aiding and abetting the downgrading of our club,he signed a contract that gave him no control over player sales when he was fully aware of the consequences of that action.
He has sold his soul and ours for a moment in the sun.
He is not a “decent man” he is an idiot, he left a job where he was respected and liked and gave it all away to become the patsy for a bunch of theiving corporate arseholes.
I dont want to give him a chance, there is no question in my mind that he is not good enough and worse I consider him to be part of the enemy within.
The best thing that Roy can do as far as I am concerned is get out while his reputation still has some credibility, because it is only a matter of time before the press start to take him to pieces.
|
 #663 |
Arthur G. Posis
Posted on August 27, 2010 @ 8:21 am
Rome77:
1) Never supported Rafa out people. Questioned his tactics last season. Like any reasonable fan would do.
2)Buying Aquilani was ludicrous. We had cover in the midfield – we needed a striker. Oh and yeah, Aquilani was fuckin injured when we bought him and wouldn’t play for almost 4 months. Nuff said
3) I speculated Torres might have left. SPEC-U-LAT-ED
That is all Rome77 – no doubt you come back barking at me
|
 #664 |
somnath07in
Posted on August 27, 2010 @ 8:42 am
@5YearPlan
Your point is valid.
|
 #665 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 27, 2010 @ 8:47 am
Arthur 22 years would have given you the bad. The only real good being Rafa.
Yes, I know full well what Roy and Ged accomplished. But the only real sustainable, measurably progressive success came under Rafa.
This is what amazes me about some of our support,
Rafa gave them the best football of their lives. He gave them their greatest ever night of their footballing lives. I’d say he gave me mine, but I was in Rome in 77 and the 25th of May happens to be my birthday. Hard to top that.
But what it did, was give me something I thought I’d never see again.
I’m now convinced I will never see the likes again.
It also gave me hope for the future. I thought at long last, we had found the man who would take us back to the absolute pinacle of English and European football.
Sadly, it wasn’t to be.
So, yes we move on.
I actually came in last night to praise Roy and the lads. That was a good result, with an under strength side in a very difficult place. So yes, well done Roy and the lads.
But if anyone thinks I can just forget, forgive and move on… sorry. It’s not going to happen.
I’m knocking on 55. God willing I have 20 good years left in me. I’ve been waiting 20 for the good times again. I fear I’ll be waiting another 20. And none of our fans, Sky Sports, Talk Shite or The Daily Manc is going to convince me I should embrace the feelgood factor of Uncle Roy. I felt good in Istanbul. I felt good in Barcelona, Madrid, Athens, et al. I felt good in Cardiff. I felt good watching the mauling at Old Trafford.
Roy comes anywhere near any of that, I might just get the feelgood factor back.
Which is highly unfair on Roy.
1: He isn’t that caliber of manager.
2: He’s toothless. He cannot stop H&G, or P&B from doing anything they like.
Hopefully our fans who constantly stabbed Rafa will now start to understand a bit of that and not turn on Roy in the same manner.
I wouldn’t hold my breath, though.
|
 #666 |
somnath07in
Posted on August 27, 2010 @ 8:58 am
Masch sold
|
 #667 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 27, 2010 @ 9:07 am
659, 663…
This is the real amazing thing about footy fans.
659: Gaz asks for proof that Roy sent Aquilani packing…
Why not read what he said Gaz, instead of trying to blindly support him?
It’s only a couple of days, since he said it.
663: Arthur, only speculates Torres would have left this morning, when last night it was a decleration.
Well, like I just said to Gaz, go check what Torres said about Rafa. It was only a few days ago. When Guillam Bellague, asked all the Spanish squad what was there greatest influence in football…
Torres said Rafa had nurtured him like a father and had made him the player he is.
Sadly, some of our fans would prefer to hear the screams of the Sky pundits dramatically enhancing Torres shaking his head when being substituted…
Any footballer worth his salt, will not want to come off the pitch even if that does mean risking injury and missing more important battles ahead.
I’m off. I can’t be arsed discussing things when people have an agenda. It becomes entrenched and ridiculous. Myths and untruths get bandied as fact. It becomes self destroying.
I’ve given reasons, tactical footballing reasons why Roy isn’t as good as a coach.
I’ve given facts as to what is happening at the club.
I’ve not seen one of the footballing questions answered.
I’ve seen myth and frankly some quite shocking opinion on the situation at the club behind the scenes.
When the damage the yanks have caused and continue to cause is questioned, well, I honestly can’t see the point in even having a discussion.
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 #668 |
theredman
Posted on August 27, 2010 @ 9:08 am
FS,
you still got the same E-Mail address, i’ve sent you a couple and had no response, i am using windows vista (absolute shite) so if E-Mails go into the cyber-graveyard it does’nt tell me.
Great result last night for the boy’s.
YNWA.
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 #669 |
somnath07in
Posted on August 27, 2010 @ 9:09 am
@FS:
Rafa was no doubt better than Roy. I was one of those who never quite understood which path to take. I have criticized as well as supported the manager(both because i support the club and i like everyone hate seeing them loose).
When Rafa was asked to leave, i was sad and at the same time filled with hope that perhaps we will get a better manager(To be honest i thought Hiddink will be appointed) .
All these media activities regarding Roy made me to think that its just rumours. Never thought that he will be appointed.
When it indeed happened.. the singing of Joe Cole followed. Replacing Yossi with Joe was ok with me. Then came the Chinese links and i started to think that we will indeed have a good season.
But now i am really depressed with the future prospect.
We need to find a brother of the Shiekh of ManCity asap. Thats the reality.
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 #670 |
theredman
Posted on August 27, 2010 @ 9:12 am
FS,
forget 668 just got your mail now, and yes knob’s do abound.
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 #671 |
axchoice
Posted on August 27, 2010 @ 9:17 am
gaz #661,
I feel you’re a bit too harsh on Masch to have cursed him the way you did. BTW, you shouldn’t compare Messi to John Terry. I think he’s got much more class
If I’m not wrong, he’s presently on 30k per week, much more than most of us can earn in this forum, but only a third of what Joe Cole is earning. How would you feel if you are the Argentina captain, young and fit, but earn only a third of Old Cole’s salary, given that he’s been crocked for a few years and not in the England team at present?
His relatively low salary was highlighted last year, and Rafa was supposed to have been re-negotiating it before he got the sack. I assume that the club hasn’t been negotiating a new contract with him, that Masch would probably have thought that the club doesn’t value him.
Since it’s well documented that his family isn’t adapting well to Liverpool, it’s only natural that he becomes very excited when one of the best clubs in the world offers him a much more lucrative contract to play in a country that he has absolutely no language barrier. Mind you, he’s not a boyhood Liverpool supporter.
I prefer we show more respect to a player who has played consistently well for us for a few years
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 #672 |
axchoice
Posted on August 27, 2010 @ 9:40 am
FS #667,
I think you’re referring to Arthur #602 (Posted on August 26, 2010 @ 2:36 pm),
“Torres/Gerrard & Carragher – there is a lot of anecdotal evidence to suggest that 1, 2 or all 3 of them would have left had Rafa stayed on board”
and Arthur #663 (posted on August 27, 2010 @ 8:21 am),
“3) I speculated Torres might have left. SPEC-U-LAT-ED”
Not exactly last night
Like you, I’m tired of explaining things to people who’ve based their facts mostly from opinions sprouted by the good old English media.
|
 #673 |
bash786
Posted on August 27, 2010 @ 9:47 am
I think we all regard monster as one of the best holding midfielders in the world and he along with pepe, gerrard & torres are the handful of players we have who can walk in any team in the world so why wasn’t we paying him top whack? Who knows he might have told his missus to quit complaining and enjoy the lovely english weather. Another example of cutting costs/asset striping to me especially if you consider poulsen is going to be his replacement. Come on Hodgson grow some balls!
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 #674 |
bhavster
Posted on August 27, 2010 @ 9:48 am
arthur – would i be right in assuming you are abt 30 years old?
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 #675 |
Lurgankop
Posted on August 27, 2010 @ 10:30 am
bash786, when Mascher signed for us, he got a cool few million in his hand, as a signing on fee. I am not sure how many million but this would light the blow of his ‘low’ salary.
It’s just like the Aquaman deal. A lot of people say that Rafa wasted the 20 million quid on him and we could have got a backup striker instead. The reality is that Rafa’s transfer kitty was pinched by the thieves and he paid 5m up front for the Italian. Now what type of quality backup for Torres would that get you?
As always, the devil is in the details and not listening to the tripe that we are pushed in the media.
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 #676 |
Arthur G. Posis
Posted on August 27, 2010 @ 10:32 am
Lads “anecdotal evidence” – is that a declaration??? Hmmmm methinks not.
It was my OPINION that Torres/Gerrard and/or Carragher MIGHT have left or that they MIGHT have been unhappy playing under Rafa. I might be wrong – but you know what lads – you don’t know either. There are some things we as fans are not privy to. Part of the fun (usually) is pondering, speculating, guessing outcomes of different situations and then discussing it with your fellow fan. There is so much vitriol in here directed towards those who don’t toe the party line (FS and his Merry Men). People should start showing other posters with diverse points of view, some respect – though I wont hold my breath.
Bhavster? Where would you be going with this?? My first Liverpool season was 1987/88 so I like to think I have seen “the good” actually – Kenny’s team from 1987-90 had some superb players and could and should have won 3 doubles!
How old are you Bhavster? Is age important?
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 #677 |
Lurgankop
Posted on August 27, 2010 @ 10:36 am
I think that Arthur is 21 as he started supporting Liverpool in his mother’s womb
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 #678 |
Arthur G. Posis
Posted on August 27, 2010 @ 10:44 am
Wanna guess my weight as well????
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 #679 |
sachem
Posted on August 27, 2010 @ 10:52 am
I don’t mean to offend you Arthur, because you seem to me like an overall intelligent and respectable person, but reading the arguments you make in here and all those arguing against you, it does seem to me you are getting closer to the level of people like FS’ best friend Digger and burgerman by each post. I think you are more convinced of your views than reason would allow.
At least that is one possible explanation. The other is that you are not on par with most others in here in terms of semantics. That does not seem entirely plausible however considering the fact we’ve probably covered every angle there is to Rafa’s transfers, Rafa’s tactical approach, Rafa’s man management, the quality of individual players, the club’s economical state and its affect on what should be expected by the manager and the team etc.
There is something fundamentally different in the way Arthur view these things and the way, for instance, FS view them. It reminds me of people with completely opposite ideological convictions trying to agree on the value of a certain phenomenon or how a society should function. I doubt an agreement can ever be reached under those circumstances and likewise, I don’t think Arthur will ever be “on par” with FS, Keith, Aitch and the rest of us who consistently disagree with Arthur on the topics mentioned above.
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 #680 |
sachem
Posted on August 27, 2010 @ 10:58 am
So Barcelona got £27.5m for Yaya Touré, but only had to pay £16m upfront for his upgrade replacement. Because there’s no doubt Mascherano will be an upgrade, even though Touré is also a quality holding midfielder.
There is something rotten in Denmark.
Sorry, Liverpool.
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 #681 |
bhavster
Posted on August 27, 2010 @ 10:59 am
arthur – i am in my mid thirties – i just wanted to get some perspective when i was reading your posts. i remember my manc friend having months of internet debates on glazer, debt, leverage etc with what turned out to be a 14 year old – my friend does quant strategies in a big investment bank. boy did i piss myself laughing.
i got intrigued after reading your thoughts on asset stripping.
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 #682 |
Arthur G. Posis
Posted on August 27, 2010 @ 11:27 am
Well you know what I was talking about when I was talking about asset stripping – “the forced sale of players without consent of the manager (e.g. selling Torres or Gerrard)” – but I accept that others have a broader definition of that.
anyway I’m 32, my favourite colour is blue…
Sachem – no offense taken and that was a very good post there #679. I think it’s fair to say that I’m unlikely to ever see eye to eye regarding Rafa Benitez (his legacy, his tactics etc) with those aforementioned individuals but I hope we can still all remain cordial and respectful.
And maybe when we(LFC) has come out of this dark chapter and are able to properly compete with the other big boys again, we can all just comment on footballing matters…could be a while yet though
I just don’t buy into the whole “Rafa was our only hope sentiment” – and that is my right as a LFC fan – and it should be respected
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 #683 |
Terry Pearce
Posted on August 27, 2010 @ 12:01 pm
We’ve been fucking Dry bummed over this Masch deal and Pearcey’s not amused!
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 #684 |
bhavster
Posted on August 27, 2010 @ 12:36 pm
LIVERPOOL, Steaua Bucharest, Napoli, FC Utretcht
|
 #685 |
KeithSA
Posted on August 27, 2010 @ 12:54 pm
Arthur The reason people get short with you is not because you have a different view point but because your arguments don’t hold up. When we point out the short comings you gloss over it and then use the same argument at a later date. For example. You have used the stick to flog Rafa with of him not bring in another striker but Aquaman instead. How many times have we told you that halfway through the transfer window his transfer budget was taken away without explanation? He scrambled around to find defensive cover on the cheap and ended up having to loan out Nemeth in order to get Hercules in. He only got a fraction of the Alonso sale to reinvest in the squad.
Guys the Masch deal is easy to explain, it is easier to sell him off for that price than give him the raise he wanted and Rafa was going to offer for him to stay (yes my speculation on this) Next year it would have been his last year and then he would have walked for nothing. The only way he would have considered staying (not 100% ) was if Rafa stayed and he got the salary he deserves not the 30 grand he is on. It would have cost the thieves 20 mill over 5 years to keep him.
We are no longer about football but about money and how much they can make and the longer they can hold on the longer the chances are that they get a better price. A forced sale because they cannot afford the repayments means a lower price. I base this on the principle of this is the revenue and this is the expenses, x by a factor and you get the net worth of the asset. All we are is a commodity to them to milk dry. The more they pay themselves (Kop Holdings that is) in repayment the more money they make from an eventual sale. So the longer the better.
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 #686 |
Arthur G. Posis
Posted on August 27, 2010 @ 1:11 pm
KeithSA:
The argument that Rafa had the money for a striker taken off him is a moot point. Rafa should never have signed Aquilani in the first place. He surely could have purchased a striker in a similar method that Aquaman was purchased (i.e. installments) – these deals are done all the time.
My arguments hold up – you guys keep coming back at me because you don’t like my answers
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 #687 |
guinnessdrinker
Posted on August 27, 2010 @ 1:28 pm
looks to me like all this toing and froing is just going to go on and on til either A)we go on a great run and one side will shut up or B)we play as badly or worse then we did last year and the other side will shut up.
Its been done all of last season all over the summer and now well into the new season its getting beyond stale at this stage.
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 #688 |
elbmw
Posted on August 27, 2010 @ 1:39 pm
@665 FS Point 2.
I think the reason the 2 K*nts got rid of Rafa was because he resisted them every time he perceived they would do damage to the team i.e. selling players and not replacing them. As far as I can see that was the biggest conflict of interest between the borrowners and Rafa. Rafa just wouldn’t give them a free ride to strip the team he worked so hard to build.
So… they got rid of the one person who was resisting them and replaced him with another manager who would have signed a contract that basically tied his hands with whatever playing staff they afford him. So yes, you could say hes toothless but thats what they wanted.
I’d go on to say that the biggest conflict of interest now lies between the borrowners and the fans. Except they cannot get rid of us but unfortunately we’ve also not been able to get rid of them. Yet!
I also think that the biggest problem for the fans trying to get rid of the borrowners is our lack of unity and a common strategy with a workable plan.
IMHO the best approach would be to buy absolutely no merchandise and no match tickets. I realise that in the short term it would hurt the team even more, as its a bit like biting your nose to spite your face but thats what’s needed to make the borrowners leave, as they’d be hurting commercially. Anything else is just water off a ducks back for them. But judging by the number of “supporters” (Ha!) I’ve seen wearing official shirts I doubt that it will ever happen. On an aside, I consider all fans who buy the new shirt really thick. Who are these people actually supporting? The team? How? Dont they realise that the only way the club will be reinstated to the top perch is by getting rid of H&G and that by giving them money they simply wont leave. They’re here to make money not give money. Wise up people! STOP buying official merchandise!
Still, for my part I wont buy any merchandise and have become a self-imposed exile from all the games too. The last game of last season would have been my last until the two K*nts get lost.
Rant Over.
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 #689 |
KeithSA
Posted on August 27, 2010 @ 1:40 pm
Arthur if you are going to act like a child then I will treat you like one.
Dear Mr Manager here is your budget for the transfer window … zero. Why Mr Owner? Because the price of weatabix has not increased as much as we had expected and the idiot fans have not bought our bullshit and spent extra money on our overpriced merchandise. All extra revenue has to go into our pockets first. However what you sell you can use to replace…. He he he he.
Alonso 30 mill oh goody…hmmm what do I need…. Oh yes I had better replace Alonso but I also need a striker because Torres is injured and I need a centre back because Sammie has turned down our offer.
I know Aquaman is a world class midfielder and I get him on the cheap because he is injured. Hello Mr Doctor how long do you think it will take before Aquaman is fit to play….. 6 weeks…. Excellent we can cope with Masch and Lucas for that long I get a great midfielder at a staggered price.
Next…….hello Mr Owner…… what you decided to award yourself a loyalty bonus and there is no more funds left….. fuck you I resign….. 2 mill is all that is left you thieving bastards… no that was not a compliment you twat….Yes I know you don’t care….. yes I know it is all about brand loyalty, next you will put the ticket prices up….. oh you have already done that.
Fuck what do I do… I wanted Turner but will have to throw in Nemeth and the 2 mill for Hercules….. Ngog and Dirk will have to fill in for Torres…. Fucking lying, cheating, thieving American cunts if it was not for the fans I would have walked long ago but I cannot let them down
One year later…. So much for the fan loyalty….can someone please take the knife out of my back
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 #690 |
Arthur G. Posis
Posted on August 27, 2010 @ 2:22 pm
KeithSA: “I know Aquaman is a world class midfielder”
HILARIOUS
And where is the evidence of that KeithSA??
How badly did Roma miss Aquilani last season..hmmm let me see…oh that’s right they finished 2nd.hmmmmm
You’re condescending post Keith SA to me sums up all that is wrong with Kop Blog at the moment. I’d love you to properly explain how exactly I’m acting like a child??? Is it because I’m disagreeing with you and FS?? A petulant child to his parents ??
I wonder are you as condescending in real life Keith – hope not.
Good post Guinness btw
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 #691 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 27, 2010 @ 3:16 pm
Arhtur, one week to go to transfer deadline you’ve just sold a key midfield player. The club can afford £5m immediately. The rest will have to be negotiated as a staggered payment over 2 years. I don’t think its easy to find a deal that ticks all those boxes.
Rafa took a gamble. Use his initial £5m. Buy a player with the potential to be world class. Hope that Voronin can do something because we’re too broke to buy another striker.
When a manager’s budget is cut in the middle of the transfer window its not a moot point mate. I can imagine some long planning went into our summer recruitment. The manager would have ear marked 4 positions. All of a sudden he’s told he can only get one.
Rafa thinks “Oh shit!”….. then… “Ok last season we did alright with one main striker from January til May. Kuyt and Babel should be able to fill in. Ngog can do a job. Hopefully Torres can stay fit. Midfield is key, Alonso is sure to leave and I simply have to fill that void. Plessis didn’t develope as I’d hoped. Lucas is still developing. I want Gerrard to stay behind Torres as they were a dream last season. I must have a midfield player. But I’ve only got £5m to pay upfront. Fuck let me look at the database.”
“Hmm De Rossi is good let me call Roma”
“Hello, yes is De Rossie available please? What? £30m upfront, ok good luck for the season. Bye.”
“Hmm Javi Martinez”
“Olla senior, is Javi available?… £12m up front… shit.”
“Gutti, no too old”.
“Kaka? hahaha you crack me up Mauricio”
“Aquilani… hmm good player, probably too expensive but injured though. Hmmm I wonder…”
“Hello, Rafa again. How much for Aquilani? €20m? but he is injured no? Back in October? Discount? €7m up front…. interesting. Let me think it over.”
ALONSO SOLD
“Christian, any chance getting the £30m from Alonso sale? Ok £20m? £10m? still only £5m? sigh ok”
“Hello, Rafa from Leicester – I mean Liverpool again. Yes I think we might have a deal. You say he back in October right? Ok lets do it”
“Good thing my defenders are fit eh Mauricio? What do you mean Carra, Skrtel and Johnson are injured? Bloody hell let me reboot the database”.
“Christian, I need a centre back Michael Turner is good English player we can get him for £4m… What do you mean not on my nelly? Who is nelly? What? Too much money? Ok”.
“Ok, I can get Kygriakos for £2.5m is good solid centre back. Yes £2.5m. What? Too expensive!?” “Look cunt, I am managing Liverpool no? You want trophies no? Then I need centre back. If not I quit and go Real Madrid and tell everyone why. Yes £2.5m, go can warm up the fax machine”
“And to think, I thought I’d get Silva, Villa and Turan this summer”. “Don’t laugh Mauricio is not funny”.
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 #692 |
Arthur G. Posis
Posted on August 27, 2010 @ 3:40 pm
LB:
It was a gamble – too much of a gamble. No other top class manager (in my view) would have made such a decision.
You’re trying to say we couldn’t find a non injured midfielder or striker last pre-season? And pay for that player in installments?
Lads? Did Rafa make any mistakes in your eyes? Just curious… Cos you’ve been fierce quick to criticize Roy in all his 4 match competitive career….
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 #693 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 27, 2010 @ 4:05 pm
Arthur, no other top class manager would have continued working under the circumstances. List your top coaches in world football. It is my opinion, in fact I am certain that they all would have walked during the summer of 2009. Rafa got the rug pulled from under him and it led to him making a mistake.
When other top managers get the rug pulled they resign. As an example. Look up Mourinho’s past. He has walked out of every job where the board didn’t give him what he wanted.
Rafa would have been better off resigning in summer 2009. He could easily say “I took the club to 2nd in the league, the most points in 22 years. But the club are not ambitious, they do not back me when I ask for a player. I ask for a table and they bring me a lampshade, so I resign”.
Instead Rafa fights on, makes a few gambles, puts his reputation and credibility on the line. Fights battles all around him. Puts up with the ridicule from the media. Players get injured. Form dips. Performances are poor. Being a winner he guarantees 4th place. It doesn’t happen. First truly poor season of his tenure. He is hung.
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 #694 |
Arthur G. Posis
Posted on August 27, 2010 @ 4:14 pm
I agree with that LB, but because he didn’t resign he has to take responsibility for what took place in 2009/10.
But seriously how many on here wanted rid of Rafa on this blog? Not many at all if recall correctly
People grumbled sure and I complained about a lot of his decisions – but were there cries in the Kop for Rafa to go? No – no marches or protests.
Rafa was removed by the hierarchy – the fans had little or no influence on it at all
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 #695 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 27, 2010 @ 4:14 pm
Arthur, Roy has been criticised for being linked with rubbish players, letting Aquilani go, getting stuffed 3-0 at City and keeping quiet while the squad gets depleted.
Tell me a defeat where we lost by 3 clear goals where Rafa did not have the entire world (this blog included) criticising his methods. The guy was subjected to ridicule. His sanity questioned during 2008/09 while being top of the bloody league!
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 #696 |
Arthur G. Posis
Posted on August 27, 2010 @ 4:17 pm
LB – you had a go at Roy before the season even started!
|
 #697 |
Aitch
Posted on August 27, 2010 @ 4:23 pm
…whereas somewhere above… I can’t find the exact post number, but its there…
you Arthur, stated that you “never really cared for the man” or maybe it was never took to him?
Either way, it shows a prejudice that explains your steadfast refusal to accept any explanations for what happened to LFC last season and simply blame Rafa… which you also stated in a post above.
Opinions aren’t worth shit if they aren’t objective.
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 #698 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 27, 2010 @ 4:28 pm
Arthur, this sentence is why you have the likes of Keith and Rome losing their rag. “Rafa was removed by the hierarchy – the fans had little or no influence on it at all”.
The fans do have an influence. The Kop wasn’t chanting “You dont know what your doing” like Newcastle fans. However the staunch support faded away, the fans were indifferent, and this indifference allowed the board to sack Rafa without too much of a backlash.
Poor performances and 7th place caused the indifference. However I think we should have been clever enough to look beyond the 7th place and poor performances. Recognise the mitigating circumstances and back Rafa just as staunchly as we did during the Klinnsmann saga.
That is what “the bigger picture” is all about. Forget 7th, forget playing shite against Stoke or Hull, forget 2 holding midfield players for a while. We have a good manager, we know that. We have cunts on the board. We know that. How about having the balls to see that Rafa is the easy target and we’re gonna get rid of the REAL problem?
The shit atmosphere at the club comes from the owners and the board. The shit works its way down to the management and the players. We know if Rafa is backed by decent employers he will do a good job. He has proved this. We know that our owners and board make it difficult for ANY manager to succeed. Yet we still attack the easy target and hope the difficult target, the REAL problem sorts itself out? Doesn’t that make us a bunch of pussies? In some ways I think we bloody well deserve what we are getting.
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 #699 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 27, 2010 @ 4:35 pm
I had a go at Roy before the season started not before he started. I had a go at Roy when I saw him looking like a Thunderbird puppet in press conferences looking like an accomplice in conning the fans. Mate, I have explained this how many times? How many times must I explain that I cant respect or back a manager who allows his squad to be downgraded without even making a fuss? Its fair enough if you don’t agree so lets just leave it there because its getting a bit boring now. I tried to inject humour into it to make it a bit light hearted but here we fucking go again on the roundabout. I’m done with it now. Next topic please.
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 #700 |
KeithSA
Posted on August 27, 2010 @ 4:47 pm
Amen
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 #701 |
Aitch
Posted on August 27, 2010 @ 4:55 pm
I do find myself in the rather strange position of agreeing with Arthur on one point though….
The criticisms of Roy are not only vitriolic, but unfair.
It is not Roy’s fault Rafa was forced out.
And it is not his fault he couldn’t negotiate a better deal for himself.
And I’d sooner he took the job than Mark Hughes, or Alan Curbishley, or Sam fuckin Allardyce (I really did laugh out loud when I read that one above)
Someone had to come in and fight for us the fans.
Maurinho was never gonna do it. Hiddink wouldn’t.
Roy did.
I won’t blame his for that. I’ll fuckin thank him for it.
Coz if you think it couldn’t have been worse… you’re deluding yourselves as badly as those who refuse to accept that it would likely have been better had Rafa kept fighting on.
So let’s cool our heels a little on the Roy bashing…
Yes I get that analysis of his tenure thus far includes his previous records at other clubs… and that’s fair enough… 2 months isn’t enough to gauge the man, especially when the first month was spent “playing with the kiddies, until the grown ups got home”… so to speak…
…so all you can do is draw conclusions from those two months in combination with his record, in combination with his words and his actions… and in combionation with what we see over the next few weeks.
Also… direct comparisons with Rafa are somewhat unfair.
Rafa was hired by an owner/executive/board that prized success above all else.
Limited though Moore’s investment may have been…
Limited though Parry’s abilities may have been…
…they were making decisions for what they deemed to be the good of the club… (errr, you know…. Until they actually sold it!)
Hodgson was not hired under the same circumstances.
I sort of understand why people say he is complicit in this great evil…
… but I do think it is unfair.
We can’t know his true motivations… but my guess is…
Roy thought he could do a job in spite of the restrictive nature of his job description.
I think he would have thought that coz, you look at the squad Rafa left behind, and it is much better than a 7th place finish.
Unlike some in here, Roy would have understood that to achieve a better than 7th place finish with the injuries we had last season would have been nothing short of a miracle.
Those players now all start the season fresh and fit… and with a few new faces adding a bit of a lift to the squad…
So under a New Manager … you’d expect good performances, especially from senior players, and especially from those who “didn’t get a fair crack” as some would suggest…
… but what we got was injuries to 2 senior players in the first 2 games (Agger and SG) an illness of some sort affecting several (Aqua/stomach bug, Maxi/stomach bug)… and the rest just seemingly unable to find their feet.
Those performances/injuries do not necessarily indicate that this season will be the same as last… but it is alarming, so I can understand why people are letting their emotions get the better of them…
… should a slide continue (like a draw this weekend for instance) it is fuel on the fire… spirits could dampen, attitudes could turn sour, form could be lost…
… you can speculate on that, you can even calculate the likelihood, but you can’t say it WILL happen with any certainty.
As for the sale of Mascherano… well… the parallels to Alonso are already a bit alarming.
I can’t imagine anyone thinks we didn’t miss him against Citeh…
… and from the sound of it, we missed him against Tranzonspur…
… will he be this season’s Alonso?
The senior player we lost but needed…
… will Purslow spend any of the 18 million on the still needed 2nd Striker (Turan’s price was 12million last summer, he is now in the final year of his contract and he still wants to come to us.)
… and if he doesn’t will Roy have “bought Poulsen when everyone could see we needed a striker”?
… or is Mascherano’s sale simply what Alonso’s sale was…
… just what G&H needed to pay the 20 million penalty that lets them keep the club on October 6th?????
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 #702 |
elbmw
Posted on August 27, 2010 @ 4:56 pm
Arthur… Every manager gambles when they buy a player. Some you win and some you lose and some will take some time to find their feet in this league…(Fungus face;Veron, Djemba Djemba, Kleberson, Masimo Taibi, David Bellion, Rio “missing” Ferdinand, the list goes on). I understand that none of these players came as “injured” but Fungus face has always had the funds to buy almost anyone he wanted.
There a big difference with gambling on a sure bet as you have the money to having to take such a huge gamble on a player that was injury prone because you dont have the money.
Do you not think that if Rafa was given the full funds from Alonsos sale or even half the money and support that fungus face gets from his board he would have maybe signed someone else?.
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 #703 |
KeithSA
Posted on August 27, 2010 @ 4:56 pm
LB we did not get the game over here so I can’t comment on the performance but I was really pleased we won maybe it will give us a lift because we need it before we go to the Toilet. Some how we have to win the next few league games or else the hole world will be on our backs and I can see the heads dropping.
I think we have quite a tough group but if Roy continues using the youngster it could be a good baptism of fire for them. I really rate Kelly and I look forward with interest as to the formation we play on the weekend. I hope he reverts back to 4 2 3 1.
I would like to see this line up:
Pepe
Johnson Carra (I will get slated if I put Skertal in) Agger, Kelly (for some reason he wont play Insua) or Aurelleo if fit
Lucas Paulson
Kuyt Gerrard Cole
Torres
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 #704 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 27, 2010 @ 5:10 pm
I didn’t see the game either Keith but by all accounts we squeezed out a win and didn’t look convincing. However it was an impressive result coming back from a goal down with many key players missing. So well done Roy and the team.
The West Brom game is a must win. Anything other than 3 points and the belief begins to drain away from the players and we’ll have trips to Birmingham and Man Utd next up. Not exactly happy hunting grounds for us.
Aitch, I’ll be very surprised if Roy sees more than £8m of that Mascherano money. We will miss Masch, of that I have no doubt.
I wonder how he’ll feel sitting on Barca’s bench though. Busquets is their first choice holding midfield player and Masch is cover. I’ll have a good chuckle seeing him left out of all of their big matches.
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 #705 |
Aitch
Posted on August 27, 2010 @ 5:16 pm
Elbmw
I think Rafa would have still bought Aqualani… back in the day we used to buy players and stick them in the reserves for a year, before they made the team… Rush, for instance… and we buy promising teens for the same reason…. Get em for 2 million before they become worth 6.
People love to ignore that most genuine football pundits who knew anything about Italian footy rated a fit Aqua at well above 25 million.
But also with an additional 30 million from Alonso’s sale Rafa would have got Turan …coz that was a done deal but for funds. He agreed terms, his team agreed terms, G&H took the money away. He even still tried to effect the deal by offering babel in exchange, they agreed, but Babel refused to go
I speculate that with the 18 million that would have been left, Rafa would have tried to sign David Silva… and I reckon with that much money he’d have got him.
But alas… we’ll never know… what might have been… coz days after the Aqua deal was done, they pulled any additional funds… and with Agger’s back problem, and Aurelio’s glass legs, and Hyppia electing to go somewhere he could play every week, (hindsight is a wonderful thing innit, does anyone believe he’d have left if he’d known he would play half the season?) we had to exchange a promising youngster (who has now been sold) just to bring in cover for that position.
And even then, up to the last day of the transfer window, Rafa still tried to do a deal for a striker…
All of which is ignored by the “what was he doing buying an injured midfielder when everyone could see we needed a striker” Brigade.
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 #706 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 27, 2010 @ 5:51 pm
Now Roy finds himself in a similar pickle. We’ll see how he gets on.
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 #707 |
Aitch
Posted on August 27, 2010 @ 5:58 pm
I agree LB… I doubt Roy will even see 8 million
…setting aside for a moment that technically he won’t see any of it, coz he’s got fuck all to do with any of it and isn’t the one doing the deals Purslow is… which is already starting to make Roy looka bit foolish coz he’s making statements…. which are almost immediately being contradicted by Pruslow’s actions… but I digress…
My point was theoretical… but as you say… it was against Man City we glaringly missed Mascherano…
… against Trabzonspor we managed…
…against West Brom, you’d have to fancy us managing…
… even Birmingham, no disrespect to them, are not a team where you truly miss Mascherano…
… but come Man united… and we could be on the end of a tonking that will make Citeh look like a comfortable game… coz those fuckers have yet again, started the season in full flow, and what we’ve seen from the Reds so far… in my opinion… won’t be enough to hold them to a draw.
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 #708 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 27, 2010 @ 6:01 pm
669: Somnath, that was the problem. People didn’t want to believe the evidence that had been staring them in the face for 3 years.
They clung on to quite ridiculous hope, and they believed the media bollacks.
Now the reality has came home to bite, I can’t for the life of me work out why they still want to bury their heads in the sand and believe everything is going to be alright.
It truly is mindboggling…
They disregard all past evidence of the owners.
They disregard everything that’s happened in the 3 and a half years since they’ve been here.
They disregard our record for the last 20 years.
They disregard, Istanbul, Cardiff, Athens, and our best ever title challenge.
They disregard Roy’s history.
They disregard top notch 20 odd year old players being shipped out for 30 year old crocks and journeymen.
And as always, I could go on, but it will suffice to say…
They disregard just about everything that is staring them in the face, and all facts in favour of their own quite ridiculous arguments and opinions.
When that argument/opinion is shown to be untrue or even ridiculous, they just disregard that and come back with yet another different but equally ridiculous/opinion argument…
and on and on infinitum.
And even when their arguments are shown up to be complete shite and even lies they’ve made up themselves, as in the case of Digger, or media myth, or just their own opinion, usually an opinion that flies in the face of all known fact, they demand respect for their opinions.
3.5 years of this shite I’ve seen. Despite everything that is going on at the club, lots of people, not just Arthur and GD in here, are still acting this way.
Well, I suppose there were some people who enjoyed the band as the Titanic went down. But I’m sure the sane ones ran for the lifeboats.
Shame is, we have no lifeboat.
We have one last hope as far as I can see – the yanks fail to refinance in time for the October deadline and RBS pull the plug.
I’m really sick to death of this…
I hold these people responsible for aiding and abbetting the situation our club finds itself in.
Of course, they will cry foul when you confront them with that.
“No asset stripping because asset stripping is only selling top players against their will.”
Oh dear. I honestly give up.
Tatty bye for now.
I’ll come back when all this has died down or when I have some news on the ownership situation.
I’m not going to waste me energy on this.
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 #709 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 27, 2010 @ 6:50 pm
I watched Piranha 3D the other day. You think Man City away was bad?
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 #710 |
Lurgankop
Posted on August 27, 2010 @ 8:02 pm
RH has stated that Rafa signed an agreement were he cannot poach LFC players – and he thinks that it still applies – eh?.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/8938241.stm
Click on the audio link towards the bottom.
So all the crap that we have seen in the media, was just that, crap.
Unless Roy is lying
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 #711 |
elbmw
Posted on August 27, 2010 @ 9:33 pm
Aitch I think back in the days when we did buy players with potential and stick them in the reserves for a season or two we had the 1st team players already there and the luxury of being able to do that. However, we dont currently have that luxury so I dont think he would have bought aqua under those circumstances when he needed to fill the huge void left by Alonsos departure.
But whatever his plans they were definitely scupperred when the Alonso money all but vanished into H&Gs bottomless pockets. I think if his idea of using the money to improve 3 or 4 other positions came to fruition Alonsos departure may not have been missed so much.
If you remember when we had Rush in his hay day and sold him to juve for £3.25M (I think), which was a colossal and unheard of amount of money at the time. Dalglish went out and bought Barnes, Aldridge and Houghton for about £800,000 each and Beardsley for £1.7M.
In other words he reinvested all the £3.25M and outlaid a further £1M. As a result we didn’t miss Rushie at all then. In fact I thought the team went up a notch or two as a result.
We were so near…yet so far!
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 #712 |
Aitch
Posted on August 27, 2010 @ 11:00 pm
I agree elbmw, but I think you missed my point a bit.
Times are obviously different. The days of buying British players fro a son is long over… mediocre players demand high transfer fees now… which is why we have so many mediocre foreign players in the League.
Paul Tomkins has published several articles based on a book he’s writing with a few other blokes, where they created something called a “TPI index” which ammortises the old transfer fees to today’s money, so you can make these kinds of transfer comparisons on an even financial ground.
Even using the TPI index, Barnes, Beadsley and Aldridge, record signings though they may have been, still represents the stroke of genius, of strokes of genius, when it comes to value for money transfers.
In today’s money that triple-transfer is spectacularly cheap.
But those kinds of deals are long gone… the closest you get nowadays is the occasional Joe Cole free transfer… hardly comparable?
My point about Rush and Aquilani, is that in the way we used to bring lads on” in that old school manner, once he realized the Docs were wrong and he wasn’t going to be able to play him every week, I think Rafa was playing it cautious with him…
…Easing him into the rough-and-tumble of the Prem, and back to fitness, for THIS season.
He bought him for the long term, not the short… too big a concept for some to get.
And yes, in retrospect you can call that a mistake…
We can suggest the lad is Class and would have made a big contribution this season, but we’ll never know now that Rafa has gone and Aqua has been sent back to Italy, whether he would have proved a point, or been a failure.
But when we bought Aqua, we had Masch and SG coming off a great season, Lucas in spite of his doubters growing in stature, and Doctors telling Rafa that Aqua would be fit in 1 month.
Agger was the only injury at that point. No one could have predicted the injury list we would accumulate from game one of the season…
We still had 30 million coming in from Alonso at that point.
A deal was on the cards for Arda Turan.
Rafa had sent someone to speak to David Silva… and even publicly admonished him because that visitation had been leaked to the press by Silva’s agent, against express directive.
But all that gets ignored.
You say there was a huge void when Alonso left.
There was a void to be sure, anytime a player of Alonso’s quality leaves, you have a void, but almost everyone at that point thought it was a void that Steven Gerrard would drop back to fill.
So it wasn’t a huge void until SG got injured, followed by Aqua not actually recovering in the time the doctors had said…
…Combine that with Mascherano’s poor form while trying to help the Argies to WC qualification… and yes… it became a huge void…
… but that’s all hindsight.
And you can’t use that against the decision that was taken, at the time it was taken.
We’ll never know if Arda Turan and David Silva would have been signed with the 30 million, because Rafa never had it… but the players were talking to us and the so were the clubs… they stopped when the money disappeared though!
Would they have made a difference to last season?
Possibly… possibly not
Could those two purchases have made up for the string of injuries?
I doubt it… not in the strict sense of the idea… though 2 fit players to use instead of rushing someone back from injury, might have helped greatly…
And LB, what were you thinking lad… I could tell from the promos that it was gonna be seriously bad. 
Do you not remember the promos for Jaws 3 in 3D …?
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 #713 |
elbmw
Posted on August 28, 2010 @ 12:17 am
No No Aitch. I dont think buying Aquilani was a mistake. I think it was a forced decision given the circumstances Rafa found himself in. He wanted Barry and was told by Pr1ck Parry “no money senior”!
Alonsos was persuaded to stay another year in the hope we would get Barry cheaper but Man Shitty happened and that was that. No Alonso and no Barry. Therefore Rafa had to gamble.
I dont think Rafa intended for Aquilani to be the long term investment you say. He needed an immediate replacement but as you say his recovery took a lot longer than was hoped. Hence why Rafa went to great lengths to say that he bought him for 5 years. But I do think we would have coped better if Turan and Silva had arrived. We built a team around Alonso where he could make chances and goals for others. You can take Alonso out but you then need players who can create their own chances, a la Silva and Turan. SG and FT can also do that but as you said they were injured most of the season.
The sad thing is that everybody at Anfield must have known what was going on, as can be seen when amidst the lowest part of last season Gellette came out and stated “I feel sorry for Rafa coz hes been thrown a curve ball this season” or words to that effect. Therefore meaning the hierarchy knew the problems they created but still got rid of Rafa. Thats why I wont say that Rafa made a mistake with aquilani. People have to look at the circumstances.
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 #715 |
donalfromthegap
Posted on August 28, 2010 @ 2:02 am
Hey lads
Some absolute cracking posts in this marathon comments section.
LB good to see you back to your finest writing you’ve articulated fairly accurately how I feel.
Welcome back Keith!!
This new signing seems cracking alright Fatty and the possibility that Roy might be in for Ben Afra who seems like a bit of a wildcard but I’d reckon worth a punt as he looks like a cracking little player.
Im a bit concerned that in order for us to get Knochesky we will have to part with 2 youngsters. Dalle Valle being the most worring one since Roy tried to sign him for fulham last January. I hope these are just loan signings as I hear DValle is seen as one of the best prospects in the academy so I’d be worried if were offloading all our good youngsters.plus I dont see Konchesky to be worth 4 mill and 2 youngsters but shur what the fuck do I know? Im just a gobshite from the gap!!
BTW I didnt know Nemeth was sold I thought he was just sent out on loan again. Is this true?
anyway keep up the good stuff lads
Over and out
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 #716 |
KeithSA
Posted on August 28, 2010 @ 7:42 am
Thanks Donal, had to take a break. Yes its true Nemeth has been sold. I rate the lad he is a clinical finisher and a good left peg, reminded me of Kenny, can score but creates as well.
Don’t know much about the new signing but getting in Poulson for Aquaman is looking more and more about finance than football. For all the people querying his credentials, Aquaman was rated by the Rome supporters as better than Tottie and you know how much they love him. He was the midfield maestro when the U21 won the European Cup for Italy. He is class and when fit dominated the CL game when Rome played Chelsea, Essien, Obie One and Lampost could not contain him. He will become a major feature in the Italian National team this year (yes my prediction) and we are going to regret letting him go.
Remember we swapped him for a player that Momo Sissoko is keeping out of the Juve team and if, as FS suggests we have bought a really good holding/ defensive midfielder why would we get rid of an attacking and defense opening one to bring in another average defensive one? It has to be finance.
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 #717 |
somnath07in
Posted on August 28, 2010 @ 10:03 am
Great news. Just goes to show that when deals are done properly newspapers like Daily Mirror do not get a sniff of things.
Konchesky deal is also going forward. I dont rate him too highly but given our left back situation, he will add some value atleast.
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 #718 |
somnath07in
Posted on August 28, 2010 @ 10:12 am
@FS: Agree. I saw him play for Portugal this world cup and i really liked his performances.
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 #720 |
burgerman
Posted on August 28, 2010 @ 11:25 am
Selling Kuyt for £8 mill would of been good business for a 30 year old.Still need a new striker/right sided midfielder.Maxi has contributed little.Inter were hopeless last night, played like the Reds last season.
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 #721 |
Lurgankop
Posted on August 28, 2010 @ 11:25 am
theredman, French media are reporting that Meireles is in Liverpool today and will have his medical. They also say that he will cost 11m euros.
To be honest I don’t know much about the lad, other than he is an attacking midfielder.
On verra!
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 #722 |
gazmaninaus
Posted on August 28, 2010 @ 11:29 am
Theredman, if you go down the page on newsnow/liverpool and click page 2-3 you’ll see about 20 differing versions, most likely all originated from the first post that FS put up.
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 #723 |
Arthur G. Posis
Posted on August 28, 2010 @ 12:16 pm
Oh dear sweet Jesus I’m hangin, out on the tear last night…will I ever learn – just want to say there has been some good posts and I have enjoyed my tete a tete with some of you in here..let’s just say we’ll agree to disagree.
To football – that is fuckin great news about Meireles , he was by far Portugal’s best player in the WC and I think he’ll fit in nicely alongside our other mids
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 #724 |
theredman
Posted on August 28, 2010 @ 1:04 pm
Thank’s Lurg,Gaz go there in a mo, but i think the Ben Arfar could be just as important to us defensive wise so i hope there is some credence to it.
YNWA.
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 #725 |
guinnessdrinker
Posted on August 28, 2010 @ 1:52 pm
every little bit of good news is followed by some bad! is lauri dalla valle being sold or going on loan?
the meireles deal looks a good one but im not holding my breath until the prees conference is called.
hair of the dog arthur!
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 #726 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 28, 2010 @ 2:12 pm
Meireles looked a really good player at the world cup! I like that signing. Nice one! Left back (not Konchesky) and striker next? Or am I getting ahead of myself?
Aitch, I thought Piranha would be a decent fun movie. It got pretty good reviews. Was fucking terrible though.
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 #727 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 28, 2010 @ 3:56 pm
Meireles is a good player. He can spray the ball about almost as good as Xabi, well, not quite, but you get me drift.
Good signing, and I’ll always give credit when it’s due. As I’ve said many times, I’m not on some petulant crusade against Roy. It’s not about that. It’s about what’s going on at the club. And as I’ve said a million times, I don’t blame Roy for any of it. I do worry about him being unable to stop what’s going on with the younger players though.
I haven’t seen anything besides the headline that Miereles was coming after a mate of mine emailed me it last night. I didn’t even look at the story, as I was about to hit the flock. But me mate told me that it was confirmed and that was enough for me.
I had to laugh at Roy today though, giving Mascher loads for wanting to leave while under contract and calling Rafa for bidding for him. Oh dear…
Word to the wise Roy….
Fulham/LFC buying out your contract, Konchesky.
People in glass houses, stones and all that. But it’s okay. He only said it to the British media so they lapped it up and threw the ammo at Johnny Foriegner as usual.
The media in this country really is in just about the worst state I can ever recall.
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 #728 |
Aitch
Posted on August 28, 2010 @ 5:49 pm
The Miereles deal is quite shocking.
I wouldn’t have expected the Yanks to allow that much money to be spent on a player
We’re talking almost 15 million between him and Konchesky…
…with this Toivenen or whatever his name is bloke also reported to be in talks…
…makes me wonder what’s coming around the corner at us???
These players will likely be unveiled on Monday or Tuesday… just as the window is about to slam shut…
… you know… the window by which we were supposed to have a new owner…
… makes me wonder if they’ve pulled off, or are pulling off a deal to keep the club…
… and these signings are the Beautiful Assistant in the sequined bathing suit designed to avert our attention from…
… the Rabbit being pulled out of the secret compartment beneath the Hat????
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 #729 |
timmytorres
Posted on August 28, 2010 @ 6:16 pm
Did Dalle Valle play for fulham today?
Is it a loan or a sale?
Happy with the Merales signing.
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 #730 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 28, 2010 @ 6:44 pm
No. Don’t think he’s gone yet Timmy mate.
In fact, no one seems to know what’s happening.
I remember Fulham wanted to take him on loan last year, so I can’t see Roy wanting to give him up for an aging so-so fullback.
I’ll be gutted if he does.
From what I’ve seen so far, the kid’s got every chance of making it. Can’t see Roy being that daft.
I make no bones about it, I’ve always said Rafa’s the far better manager, but I’ve always said, Roy’s no mug an all.
But if he goes for that, I might have to change me mind.
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 #731 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 28, 2010 @ 6:46 pm
PS: Aitch, no matter what’s happening, that’s always the worry mate.
I haven’t heard from the RBS fella in awhile but last time he was adamant… they will not get any extension from them.
But there’s always the worry that they could refinance somewhere else and meet the payments on time. But I don’t even want to think about that. It doesn’t bear thinking about.
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 #732 |
Aitch
Posted on August 28, 2010 @ 7:35 pm
FS… Since that is exactly what they did when they “paid down 100 million of the debt with their own money” …
… it is exactly what I expect them (and frankly have been expecting them) to do this time around.
I know its been said that Broughton is running the club on BarCap’s behalf and not the owners…
…but unless we are in some sort of undeclared administration situation, since that is exactly what that would mean…
… they still own the club and can dictate what is going on, not Broughton…
… so why are they sanctioning the outlay of almost all the Mascherano money?
… instead of using it to reduce their financial liability, (or clear off with a little severance package,) should the club… as is being hinted… be sold from under them???
Things make less and less sense with each passing week.
As for tomorrow…
a result against West Brom… while expected… is no foregone conclusion.
Spurs dropped 3 points at home to Wigan… whose previous 2 games saw them get tonked 4-0 and 6-0 … (welcome to battling on two fronts in the Prem and CL boys!)
Chavs were lucky as fuck to win comfortably 2-0 against Stoke at home.
At 0-1 Stoke were well in the ascendancy and you almost sensed an equalizer coming as opposed to a Chav 2nd… then Sorensen completely loses his fuckin nut… and gift-wraps them a 2-0 result.
Here’s hoping the players pull their fuckin fingers out (its been 15 months coming) and regardless of Roy’s formation, actually give us a game of competent football…
…you know just the basics for fucks sake…
I’m not even asking for free-flowing, beautiful attacking footy…
…just complete passes and move into space for a return for fucks sake!
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 #733 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 28, 2010 @ 8:07 pm
Aitch are you trying to ruin my weekend?
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 #734 |
LondonBarnes
Posted on August 28, 2010 @ 8:09 pm
Oh shit we are in the relegation zone.
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 #735 |
Fat Scouser
Posted on August 28, 2010 @ 8:23 pm
Sorry if the post is elongated again.
Me coputers acting up.
Aitch, it’s a know fact they’ve been
whoring around a million banks trying to
refinance. It’s a known fact, they are trying
to fuck up the sale process, with moody bids
from pizza parlour and off license owners.
Whether they can pull it off remains to
be seen.
All I can say is, I’ve been told for fact
that RBS will not be handing them any more
extensions.
Granted, that doesn’t stop me worrying but
it’s the one bit of hope we have at the
moment. And I admit, I only have someone’s
word on that. Not the most heartening news,
but sorry mate, that’s all I’ve got.
Believe me, I wish it was more.
LB… the bookies had us at 1 to 16 on for
the win. They don’t get much wrong.
Kuyt first goal, 2 nil win is 44 to 1.
I might have a go at that.
To be honest, there’s been a scooter rally
on in the Isle of Wight this weekend. I was
scooterboy/mod back in the day. Still love
all that stuff. I was a skinhead back before
facists hi-jacked it. Still one at heart.
Believe it or not, I still own a Vespa. It’s
in me mates shed in California. I haven’t
seen it in about ten years, but I won’t
let him sell it. You never know, when you
might need one. Since I got home from work
I’ve been in the garden with BBC Solent,
The Isle of Wight station on, listening to
great old Northern Soul and drinking cans.
Believe it or not, old fatty could bust a
move down the Wigan Casino back in the
day. Great stuff….
Division One can kiss my arse,
We’re in division two at last.
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