Gerry,

Our strategy on Barry should be to walk away and we won’t have to wait long for Villa to change their tune - as they will have to sell Barry and I don’t hear too many other clubs names being mentioned.

Other than that it seems to be gone quiet on the other rumours i.e. Villa, Silva etc. Anybody got news on these ?

Plus on the money side looks like there won’t be any 20M to go with what we get from player sales.

Neil

Gerry, I think we’ll end up signing Barry but will pay more than we initially hoped. I can see the club offering say £16m plus add ons that will take it close to £18m.

I think we would have had Barry by now if it wasn’t for the bad feeling between the 2 clubs at present. Villa are unwilling to compromise on their valuation because they do not like the way Liverpool have gone about things.

I was a bit perplexed as to why Villa and MoN were so angry with the way LFC had gone about things. But having thought about it…. We made a bid for Barry while Villa were still pushing for Europe, in their eyes we unsettled their player in the most important part of their season. Maybe we could have waited until the season was finished? Another thing I don’t think we did well was put in paultry offers for Barry. First a £10m offer that included a mish mash of medicore players. Then further bids of £12m and £13m. When the asking price was £18m-£20m.

If Real Madrid came in for Torres just before our CL semi final and the player said he wanted to leave we’d no doubt be pissed off and try to get as much money as possible. If for example we valued him at £40m we’d probably get further pissed off with bids of £20m, £22m, £23m….

The thing is Villa are not desperate for money and do/did not want to sell their best player. As a result they placed a high price on the player’s head. Four bids is farcical - if we can’t afford what Villa want then we should just walk away rather than play cat and mouse all summer. As you say Gerry, make one more final offer next week so both clubs and the player can move on.

I believe clubs should only make official bids if they are confident the amount offered can seal the deal. Making bids every week that is well short of the selling club’s valuation just pisses off the selling club and sours relationships. I have a feeling this is what happened when we tried to get Simao, Berbatov and Alves. Rick Parry at his best.

I agree its time to walk from Barry… The only regret I’d have is that it’d be hard to find the quality cover that Barry would offer, but Barry’s current fee is enough to buy Silva or Modric with change, both younger and brighter stars… It’s time to tell SG to let go of that wish and focus on another suitable candidate…

Although, like you Gerry, I’d be happy if Barry came to Anfeild, sooner rather than too late…

Senna would be an astute buy, although only a 2year contract should be offered, it would certainly help to give us more options in the creative department… Wether he’d like a place on our bench is another thing…

Yeah, I’m a little concerned about our Mid-feilders all being overseas in the olympics too. As much as I want to see Plesiss grow and doin well for us, I don’t want another Alonso type situation where the player isn’t playing well, but we have no other options… If nothing else it should help Rafa’s case in convincing the board that the season could be lost in the opening few weeks- give him some money!!!

I don’t blame Mash for wanting to represent his country- I’d want the same in a heart beat, but then playing for the All Blacks is the mantra of 99% of Kiwi males. I’ve grown up with the notion of wanting to play for your country, I can understand if others want to play for their club over their country tho…

Good Blog Gerry!

Dick Advocaat has said he wants around £20m for Arshavin…so comparatively speaking a player who lit up the European Championships is worth as much as the captain of a ‘top 6 at best’ club?

Transfer prices make no sense these days at all.

LB, I agree we shouldn’t be pissing clubs off by making Micky Mouse offers for their top players but I’m not sure I agree with you about us unsettling their player. I seem to remember both Rafa and O’Neill confirming they had a phone conversation about the possible availability of the player and agreed to discuss it further at the end of the season.
But then the story got out to the press and O’Neill got all bent out of shape because he leapt to the wrong conclusion by assuming it had leaked out from our end, which it later transpired that it hadn’t. So I don’t think we can be directly accused of unsettling the player.

I think we should simply let the whole matter go, it is becoming a joke and once again we’re involved. Just like the Heinze shitfight last season. Surely we have better things to do than haggle over 28 year old just made it into the England team players. Lets face it England aren’t overly setting the world on fire, are they.
.
Gareth Barry didn’t seem to make much of an impression on the LFC midfield this year did he. So we are getting rid of players who made him look ordinary, for what fucking reason.
.
Good by to the deal and get on with signing someone else before it’s to late.

Great blog and good comments Gerry. That Barry saga had gone on too long. I value Barry a lot and agree that he will be an asset to us, particularly now when three of the regular midfield youngsters (Masch, Luca and Babel) are off to Beijing in the opening month itself when we need to start off well from the blocks in the PL (Sunderland(A), Middlesborough(H) and A Villa(A) all in August before meeting Manure (H) on 13th Sept. Both Villa( especially with the Barry tug-of-war) and Manure will be gunning for us early so we can’t afford any slip ups.

And not forgetting we have other midfielders going off as well: Alonso, Riise & Kewell. OK, we still have SG, Kuyt, Benny Onion, Pennant (he should be sold off too) and Plessis but that runs a bit thin, as Gerry had said. Barry’s cover will provide a protective cushion we need. This midfield without Barry may not be good enough in our first three games in August. We do therefore need someone, a good DM like him around.

Gerry, you certainly made a darn good point about Senna. Barry’s situation has been a stalemate and I do pity the poor chap. Senna would be good midfield cover for us, dare I say could even be as good as Barry. He has experience, is reliable as a DM, can play upfront as well and has had an excellent Euro 2008. At 32,he will just cost a fraction of Barry’s fees.

Let’s not waste more time. Michael T had aptly said that Villa’s asking price for Barry is ludicrous compared to Ashavin’s. Damn Villa. Damn MON. So they wanna play tough. Call MON’s bluff, keep to our max Stg15 million for Barry. Let’s get Parry to push to buy Senna and Robbie Keane with that money plus an additional Stg3-5 million. We can afford that. If Barry comes at Stg15 million, fine. I would be happy with that. If not, I think there is even more value in getting those two than Barry alone. That would make me even happier. Let’s WALK ON…

I gotta admit that I wish we were keeping Alonso and not bothering with Barry at all.

We’re all happy with D&D’s CVs, as you say Gerry, but I wonder how long it will be before the wolves are baying for their blood. Just exactly how many games will these two be given to prove they are “world class” before the criticism of “not good enough for LFC rears its ugly head???
And I say that because there is a definite section of LFC support that sees it as one or the other.
Player valuations are out of control.
Player wages are out of control.
What we are asked yo pay for everything LFC related is out of control.
And the summer transfer window… only a few days old mind you… is out of control.

August can’t come soon enough.

i dont understand all this talk about senna. he was good at euro 2008, but he is 32, very much comfortable playing in spain (not england), i dont think he is someone we should be looking at. he’s a slower, worse version of mascherano.

that’s my opinion anyway. robbie keane and gareth barry are excellent prospects for us, in my mind. but both will be expensive. regarding the latter, it really has gotten out of control. 16 million is definitely the top in reality, we should not go higher than that.

YNWA

Apparently lads Senna wants to stay in Spain and they have put a 30 million price tag on his head. If we are reduced to picking up 32 year old midfielder then we’re in trouble. Midfielders are like motors in 4 cylinder cars, revving high for years on end and then they shit themselves.
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What about this Del La Red lad, he’s got the last name to suit. Lets no forget Plessis played a blinder against Arsenal, at Arsenal in his first game.

Alec, Alonso & Torres were all more comfortable in Spain and turned out well for us. Despite ebing 32 he palyed in all of Spains’ games and still looked rather fit. It is a matter of adaptability.

Usually youngsters are the ones who have trouble adapting. But I think Senna should have no problems as he is experienced enough.
That said, I think he won’t be used game in game out but as a cover. Maybe he could be fielded as often (16 games PL, 3-4 CL games?) as Crouchy last term. Sign him on for 1 or max 2 seasons. Our youngsters can learn from him as well.

But I concede that with Barry and Keane (more expensive though) we will have two players who knows the PL and opponents inside out and that could give us the edge over 38 games. And these days it may come to that to win or lose games in the PL.

Gazzy, indeed, de la Red boy is darn good. I saw the youtube of his mesmerizing goals. He is a little younger than Walcott but in the same striker mould. Both are young, of small stature , talented and more importantly, can really run and shoot. Rafa should give him a few run ins this season, I reckon.

Gazzy, just missed your post. 30 million Euro for Senna? Is their manager a O’Neil lookalike?.

A lot has already been said and written about this sorry, protracted farce. Ultimately, I’d rather have Alonso (currently the best passers of the ball at Anfield) and not Barry but there you go. However, why are these two issues not being talked about?

1. If Benitez feels that Alonso is worth 16million then why is he bidding less than that for Barry? Does he realise that Barry is not nearly as good as Xabi? Why is Alonso being allowed to leave anyway – is it a personal issue?

2. Why is Gerrard having a say in matters? It clearly appears that he is influencing the process of whom comes to Anfield. While I appreciate that he is the captain it should be Benitez who decides who they sign. This ‘Stevie Me’ persona is getting a bit tiresome. The manager should not feel that he has to appease the wishes of one player.

Gerrard might feel that he and Barry play well together but why is nobody talking about the lack of time they have had in competitive games in the same midfield? So here you go:

THREE full 90 minutes, one of which was the dire and listless defeat away to Russia.

ONE first half in the embarrassing defeat at home to Croatia.

And 71 minutes in the home win against Israel.

So a total of 381 minutes, of which incorporates two notably poor defeats and a lackluster win over Estonia.

lads, why bother with other spanish holding midfielders when we already have a Spanish international defensive midfielder?? Tell O’Neil to f-off.
and De la Red?? He is not a holding midfielder so he won’t be able to cover the loss of alonso. I rather would want Ingler the swiss guy or Nigel De Jong from the dutch side– I am sure they would cost much cheaper than Barry for ffs.

Lads - I really think its inevitable Barry will be an LFC player next week so a lot of the debate about alternative players is rather pointless.

Rafa would have known all about Senna before the Euros so if he has not shown any interest to date it means he isn’t interested in the player.

Player valuations are crazy - especially english players. But you can’t blame Villa and O’Neil in trying to get every penny they can get for their best player. We’re the ones making our own club look stupid putting in Mickey mouse offers every week - dragging out the saga. When the mancs wanted Carrick and Hargreaves they paid the asking price and didn’t drag things out making 4 bids for each player. Same when Chelsea bought SWP and when Arsenal bought Walcott for £12m. All of these players were over priced but if you want a top English player you gots to pay! If you can’t afford the fee stop wasting everyones time with bollacks offers and look else where. It’s like walking into an Armani shop and complaining that the jeans cost £100. What do you do? offer the shop manager £50 or fuck off somewhere that sells cheaper jeans?

Gerry, I take your point. MoN should not have run his mouth to anyone who’d listen about our initial offer for Barry in the first place. That probably unsettled their player in its self. Compare it to Spurs who refuse to comment on anything to do with Robbie Keane.

I hope we dont waste the remainder of the transfer window trying to sign Robbie Keane and then start yet another season without a decent winger.

Yeap gonna be very interesting from here on in… Now that GB is basically a reds man and that Alonso is a Juve man- theres not much more left to do…
We’ve got a hand full of players that don’t really cut it at big clubs left to axe- Peanut, Carson and Guthrie- I think thats all the players left to cull away…
Looks like Rafa has his reserve keeper signed up too…
I’m looking forward to seeing who we’re going to be targeting as perhaps our last signing of the summer…
To be honest Babel’s and Kuyt’s versatility doesn’t make me feel as though we NEED another winger, however it does suggest that an out and out winger would slot in perfectly as we all expected Kewell to be that person…

For what it’s worth, I reckon Barry will be at Anfield within the week. In all honesty, I’m not too thrilled by that, but, like you all know, I will trust in Rafa on that decision.

As for Senna, I can see why you would like him Gerry, but I think we don’t really need him. He’s a bit too similar to Masch and we also have others who can do that job.

If there was a surprise signing from Spain, it wouldn’t surprise me to see Riera turn up from Espanyol. Not to say I’d be happy with that either. But what’s Rafa supposed to do when he hasn’t recieved a penny from the other pair of bastards. In fact, I wouldn’t be shocked if all Rafa has to work with is any money he gets from sales. Funny how the horrible pair of twats have gone all coy and media shy when we all want to hear about a few quid for the boss.

As for Martin O’Neil, fair play to the man. I always liked him as a player. That was some side Cloughie put together at Forest, and O’Neil obviously learnt a lot from the great man.
Tell you what, we should tell Barry to fuck off and get O’Neil on a cash plus Parry deal and let him do that daft cunts job.
There again, there wouldn’t be enough money in the whole game of football to get shut of that knobhead.

FS, Barry in exchange for Parry. Hmmm. never thought of that one before…. Isn’t that exchanging a Captain for a CEO? We ought to get some cash for that, surely Fat One. maybe Stg 1000/-?

No mate. I was taking the piss. But you couldn’t pay anyone enough to take that bloody clown.

That was a ludicrous statement to suggest Gerrard has any say as to who comes to Liverpool. Due to the fact that Rafa has no money he has to resort to anything to get the deals done. Again if Rafa thinks Barry is a better option than Alonso, I think we have to agree he knows a bit more than any of us. The talk about who we should get is pointless, because if we don’t get Barry, Alonso is going nowhere. With Plessis as cover that is more than enough for the 4 odd weeks the players are at the Olympics.

MON and Villa are the sole reason for this media frenzy and I believe everything we have done has been above board and correct. If you don’t like something you politely reject the offer and get on with things, you don’t go whinging to the press.

Obviously Rafa thinks Barry is important, I would love to see a final offer with a make up your mind in 5 days or we walk attitude, however, if we can throw in Finnen, that has been suggested, as a add on to the 15mill, a 32 year old player who will go on a free next year, I think it would be the sensible approach and maybe enough of a face saving gesture to MON (Lost all respect, he is a Prick and as bad as Maureen).

If we do not get Keane (a long shot me thinks, unless he pushes as hard as Barry) I can see us bringing in another wide player. It looks like Riera has the inside track. Again we must not be critical I think Rafa hands are tied and you can only work with the hand you dealt.

Another thought is that Keane and Riera are smoke screens and that Rafa will spring a surprise.

What I don’t get is why the Barry deal seems to be involving all sots of players in exchange… except for the one that Villa actually want!

Surely the papers have been making most of this shit up???

Scott Carson was on a one-year loan with a 10 million purchase clause.
Given how well he performed, you would think MoN would want to keep him.. those seemed to be the noises he was making at the end of the season anyway.

So the idea of Barry for 10 plus Carson, (or something like that?) seems like it would be quickly sorted deal to me.
We come down on our over-valuation of Carson, they come down on their over-valuation of Barry and everyone gets what they want.

In other news, Chelsea have made an offer for Kaka so obscene no one is actually reporting the figure! Given that the Real-Scum-Ronaldo thing was supposed to be 50-odd mill, what have the Chavs offered AC??
And that the Chavs are also interested in taking Pirlo… Are AC having a fire sale due to their failure to make the CL?
These two sales would reportedly “solve their financial position due to their failure to qualify for the CL” …or words to that effect… by removing the two highest paid players from the books.
Perhaps if they are now flush, they have someone we could pry away on the cheap? Hmmm?

And finally, if Queeroz prances off to Portugal, will it help destabilize Scum? They were supposedly grooming him to take Fungus’ place weren’t they?? How nice would it be if that affected them in the same way that Pako’s departure seemed to affect us last season?

I have to say I’m not too impressed with the names being linked with us heavily this summer. Barry is pretty damn average at best, the guys hardly going to win you matchs and I also seem to be the only one who remember’s Riera’s uneventful spell at Man City. Not to mention the people we’ve captured. Degen, for example. I’ll concede I’ve never actually seen him play so the jury’s still out but the fact he only managed 10 games for Dortmund last season, couldn’t get into the Swiss starting lineup at the Euro’s and arrived on a free transfer doesn’t exactly fill me with confidence. Dossena is also another man I know nothing of but doesn’t exactly have the greatest CV, although I’ll concede its better than Degens.

I don’t know, maybe I want too much but I don’t see any realistic players that we’ve been strongly linked with that’ll improve the squad a great deal. Robbie Keane? He’s alright but nothing spectacular. Especially after reading how David Villa would like to join us, it seems a no-brainer to me who we should be going for.

Who knows, maybe they turn out fine and I’ll end up eating my words or we’ll sign some players I do rate out of the blue but so far I’m not filled with confidence and get the feeling we’ve been here before. Anyone else remember this time last year when everyone was saying what a fantastic addition Voronin would be? Hmm.

Sousake, I don’t think any of us are exactly thrilled with the names we’ve been linked with. Morelike we are being realistic.
We all had our fantasy football picks at the end of the season. Mine was Villa. And for a long time, myself and at least Keith, but there may have been more, thought it was a realistic nd very possible option. In fact, I haven’t completely given up on that happening. But just about every decent player in the world and his dog was bandied about in here as names we should buy.

And I can’t speak for anyone else bar meself, but I think what has happened is, we have all realised/accepted that Rafa is working on a shoestring budget compared with other managers. And I don’t mean just Fergietramp and Scolari. Tottenham, Sunderland and even Everton have promised more money to their manager’s than H&G have promised Rafa. On top of that, they still haven’t actually parted with one red cent.

But by trying to get the likes of Keane and Barry on top of the two new fullbacks, I can see what Rafa is trying to do… get in missing pieces of the machine with the limited budget he has.

To be honest, I really hate the thought of Robbie Keane in a Liverpool shirt. I’ve never thought he was good enough and that goes back 8/9/10 years or so when he was first linked with us. But if Rafa sees him as a missing link, well, I for one, am willing to trust his judgement.

For quite sometime, it’s been obvious to anyone that watches Liverpool, not just us fans, that we really could do with a decent winger if not two. But not being able to afford this type of player, Rafa has moulded the squad/team into a system that doesn’t require wingers and suits the players we have.

On top of that, we also have aging players that have needed to be replaced, Finnan, Hyppia, Kewell, even Carra. And then there’s players who aren’t performing anymore, Alonso, Risse, Pennant and emergency signings like Skrtel.

So, although we are all entitled to our views and love to express them, I think the majority of us are just expecting the worst and hoping for the best.

Having said that though, I don’t think it’s all doom and gloom. And I reckon if we can get our best 11 on the field for the really big games, allowing for a bit of rotation here and there, we are a match for anyone on our day. And, with our odds of 8 to 1 to win the league, I am going to throw a little 20 quid on it tomorrow and hope it’s still in with a chance by next easter.

Reasonable summary there FS…

Although I’m not made up on the idea of Reira, I will conceed that I am curious as to how he’d do with our boys… He’s big, strong, has two feet and pacey with the ball at his feet… They all seem to be attributes that Rafa seems to value, especially wingers that attack the goal…

Looks like the Leeds boys are pissed off with Kewell, suppose the guy likes nothing more than to piss everyone off… Best he’s on his best behaviour in Turkey, otherwise he’ll be shot!

How about this as the starting team against tough opposition:

Torres-Babel-Gerrard-Kuyt-Leiva-Masherano-Barry(LB)- Skrtyl-DAgger-Carra(RB)

To be honest Lucas could be subbed out for another striker, in fact It wouldn’t surprise me if babel pushes up into second strike for someone like Reira to slot into LW..

Just had a quick check in before bed, but I had to comment on that. And you know Lancey, I never thought of that. But now that I have, I think it’s a bloody disgrace. Imagine how you’d feel if you were related to one of the dead. Yeah fuck me, Harry doesn’t exactly do himself any favours does he.

As for a first 11….

Reina,

Carra, Skrtel, Agger, Insua

Kuyt, Gerrard, Masch, Babel

Benayoun

Torres.

With that 11, I’m just using players we have available right now, and not ones that may arrive or leave shortly. And I still think it’s good enough to turn over most other teams.

Gerry, you mentioned it not being right that we are willing to pay so much for Barry, a 28 year old, then you mention in the same breathe that going for Senna, who is 32, would be a good move???
Senna was reasonable at the Euros, but i havent seen him set the world alight before the Euros, and at that age, i think going for him would be madness. He’d be ok, at a Club like Everton, but not liverpool.

Rafa knows Barry is going to end up at liverpool, MON knows Barry is going to end up at liverpool, barry knows he is going to end up at liverpool. its just a matter of getting everyone to stop swinging their handbags at each other for 5 minutes so the transfer will go through. the lastest link is 15million, plus finnan (2 mill val), plus add ons to take it PAST 18 million….*sigh*…too much!

I dont like the Keane link at all. An above average player at an average club. Never thought he was good enough to play at a top 4 club. I like the bloke as a player, but i wouldnt want to see us sign him.

Anyone fancy us signing Schweinstager???? Cant remember too many Germans not adapting to the EPL in the past.

aussie, forget Schweinstager, we can’t afford him when we are struggling to pay 18 million for a midfielder that Rafa apparently wants badly.
It looks like we have to be on the really depressing (or realistic) side with respect to wingers, so I may have to start thinking about the possibility of getting one out of the following shites:

1. Riera
2. Milner
3. Downing

If i had to choose, i’d go for milner cos of his age.

Wow, I am totally excited about next season and closing down on the 11 points gap that we had between Manure.

i dont really fancy any of those three to be honest. Milner if any i suppose…although i dont think its an upgrade on Pennant. i reckon milner puts in more effort than Pennant, but the end product is pretty similar…all huff and puff with little result.
Just as long as its not stuart bloody downing!!!!!

was thinking more Schwienstager instead of Barry rather than as well as.

well, aussie, if that’s the case (i.e., if we can forget Barry), then I would rather want Silva, but it all really depends on the price, I guess. I wouldn’t mind seeing Schweinstiger here.

We also seemed to be linked to a Brazilian keeper. I was also worried about our back-up goalie, so 3 million for a 25 or 26 year old keeper at a top brazillian club seems a great deal to me if it comes thru. Can’t say I have seen him play, though.

I think i’d prefer him to Silva to be honest. But its pure fantasy anyway, we havent been so much as linked with him. Was just playing “What if?!?!?”
Think the deal for the Brazlian keeper is pretty much all but tied up. Diego Cavalieri from Palmeiras. Not sure that he is their top keeper though Hyde. i thought i remembered seeing that he is their backup keeper. i could be wrong though, but fairly sure i remember reading it. But yeah, your’re right, if he’s half way descent 3 million is a steal. Hope he doesnt mind keeping the bench warm!

on a different note, i was watching the 86 FA Cup all-merseyside final over the weekend. It was all a bit rough-around the edges type of football, as football was played like that back then, but I really miss that atmosphere which somehow seems to be lacking in many a games these days. That cheshit vs manure final last year was total cack.
During that game, I re-noticed how good a player steve nicol was for us at right-back (as was rob jones and chris lawler). Shame what injuries can do to you. I only hope that Degen is half as good as nicol was. I know from having seen him in a couple of games that Degen has pretty neat foot-work and speed– i sure hope his crosses are as accurate.

Ridiculous to suggest Stevie G influences Rafa over who he goes after.

As regards Villa and o’neil well we can offer what we want doesn’t mean they have to accept just say no need to rant and rave the guys an idiot. I don’t blame them for holding out for more money but at the same time if we can get him cheaper then how can we be blamed? That’s business. We didn’t go crying to the media when Real Madrid took Michael Owen for £8 million quid saying but he’s a proven goalscorer he’ll probably be record scorer for ingerland blah blah he’e worth triple that.

I’ve always thought we’ve sold players to cheaply in the past and bought them for too much, with Rafa that’s changed.

Knight - what does the Stg mean when you quote a transfer fee as in stg10 million? am I being dumb?

Yeah Kenny. Tt means 10 million sterling…. about 9.99 million nicker more than Rafa has.

But I think the next few days will see Villa getting made a final offer for Barry, that they’ll accept, and Crouch signing for Pompey.

As for St. Micheal, he was going to walk anyway, so Rafa got what he could for him. But like you said, Rafa won’t get robbed when selling and I think, even if he had it, he’d refuse to pay the silly money Man U and Chelsea do. In fact, you can blame them bastards for this.

What hope have any other clubs, not just us, of competing with them for transfers when you’ve got players like Carrick, Hargreaves, even fucking Veron that went between the two clubs for millions when he’d already been proved cack?

In fact, not long ago Chelsea were even buying players they didn’t really want, Duff SWP, just to stop us from getting them and completing our jigsaw. So though it’s a laugh trying to work out the coming’s and goings, at the end of the day we really do need to just trust Rafa can get it right with the little he’s got before he get’s the sack or gets so fed up he walks.

But, as I keep saying it’s not all doom and gloom. Last season we lost 4 games less than the champions Man U. We finished 10 points nearer to the top than we did the season before. We really smashed some teams. We held our own against all the top ones, except for whn Masch lost the plot at Old Toilet. And we got a lot of draws that could easily be turned into wins this season.

Add to that the fact that we will have Agger back, Skrtel has settled in, 2 new fullbacks, and a new defensive coach who worked wonders for us last time round and all them 1-1 draws should become 1 - 0 wins.

So, I see no need to throw the towel in before it even starts. In fact, I’m off to put me bet on - 10 pound double, Liverpool to win the league, Torres to be the league’s top scorer. Yeah. I know. It’s back to fantasy football land, but I done that bet in the Euros, Spain and Torres, and at least I was in with a chance right up to the end. I’d be happy if I went as close again at the end of the season.

PS… just been reported that Maureen has offered 6.5 million for Fatty Lampost. Ha. I hope that little bit of newspaper bollacks is true.

FS. it is very interesting that you have Insua starting ahead of Dossena in your first 11. Is this because you havent seen Dossena in action yet? I have yet to see him play, but Rafa obviously rates him very highly, and he comes with a reputation of a left back who likes to get forward to support the attack whenever he can. I also rate Insua very highly, graeat potential.

I dont think we should pay a penny more than £15m for Barry, as he will be 28 in February. If Villa wont accept £15m million, we should pull the plug on the deal, why should we be held to ransom. It would mean keeping Alonso, who could have a much better season this time around.

I was also impressed with Senna, but he would surely only be back up for Masch for us, so unless we could get him for a very small fee, I would say it is a non starter. We have limited funds and bigger priorities than another holding midfielder.

FS - I feel confident about the coming season and I trust Rafa’s judgement. What irritates me a little bit is this Rafa should Villa, Rafa should buy silva, Rafa should buy Messi etc absolute tosh! do we really think Rafa wanted to buy the likes of Pennant, Bellamy etc? Do we really think these would have been his top targets? He has to buy within the constraints of the budget he’s got.

I hope fat frank goes as well would be superb.

It’s because I really rate Insua, Steve. I know he’s a bit young yet, but, from the little I’ve seen, I think he could turn out to be a real gem.

But like I was saying about seeing how Rafa is trying to build a team, you can see why he wanted Dosena and Barry, both very experienced, naturally left footed, bringing balance to the team and allowing Babel to be pushed forward to link up with Torres, or play just behind or in front of him as Villa does with Spain.

So, I hope some of our youngsters, like Insua, mature enough this year to help give us a realistic go at the title before too many people, especially The Borrowers, lose patientce.

But like I said before, I believe Rafa wouldn’t go splashing the cash like Gillette’s drunken sailor even if they gave it to him. It’s all about tactics, systems and team building with Rafa, and he’ll always prefer hard grafters to star names. Me too really. I mean, give me a Cally, Tommo, Heighway, Barnes type team player of a winger over a George Best, Ronaldo one man band anyday.

HA! Had to tell you’s this….
It’s just been reported on Sky that 2 Rotweillers have just ran onto the pitch at Aston Villa’s training ground and all the players and Martin ONiel had to run for cover.

Go Rafa, The Hoodie Chav. I can just see him in the back of a van with the 2 Rottie’s like Micheal Palin in a Fish Called Wanda.

And it looks like Crouch has just gone to Pompey, no report on fee yet.

FS, it seems that Crouchy’s deal is roughly 9 million inital plus 2 million or so depending on appearances et cetra.

I just accidentally jumped to the official website, but you guys should read the interview of Torres by Guillem Balague. It really is a wonder how Nando became such a humble kid, but I am proud of him, and thank his parents. There is no doubt that he is going to be our future captain, no doubt.

The total deal for Crouch is worth 11 mill with an initial payment of 8 or 9 mill depending where you read it. The Barry sago will hopefully be settled this week, they should have offered him Hormone Replacement Therapy in the first place and we could have sown it up quickly, that or Prozac, MON probably needs both.

If everybody remembers correctly most of us said we only need 3 to 4 players in order for us to put in a decent challenge. Well we have those players now, maybe we can discount Barry as Alonso will go the other way and I still feel another player will come in before we start.

The wing backs of Dossena and Deggen will give us the width and attacking options down the sides that we lacked last season. We will be a lot more solid as a defensive unit with Agger back and Skertal in his second year. Our attack was not really the problem last year and I fully expect it to be better with Torres, Babbel and Vorinon all going into their second year. Kuyt should also be better as he settles more into the wide attacking midfield role and has put the death of his Father behind him. Barry will also add more of a goal threat than Xabi, will be more solid defensively and I think this more than makes up for the loss of his passing ability. Which, if we must be honest, he has not produced for the last couple of years.

All in all things are looking very promising. We will have better and more settled side as well as more cover and options in the positions that we struggled in. I really can see us challenging come the end of the season.

I would luv to be as optimistic as you Keith, but

1) unfortunately, I expected the additional 3 or 4 players to be of a different kind than the ones we are seeming to end up with; and

2) We will have to see how manure, chelski and Arsenal end up with come end of the transfer market period

before I can feel confident that we will at least be “sustaining a realistic challenging.”

I am hoping that the release of Crouch may mean we will be getting someone new in the frontal areas, but I am also a little worried that this may be used in securing Barry as it seems the Alonso sale may not be enough.

As is often said, we will have to see at least until it is clear who we are going to end up with..

oh, sorry for the many typos above lads, i should be going home…

The interview with Torres is superb. El nino is a class act.

Voronin just doesn’t cut the mustard for me KeithSA he poses no threat at all, he has a nice touch but is just huff and puff.

Xabi is perfect for the Spanish team everyone gives and goes, short passes, lots of movement. We’ve not really had those sort of players to get the best Xabi.

Hyde mate, ss I’ve said in me posts over the last few days, I think this is where a lot of us make our mistake - we want star named players, we’re disapointed when we’re not linked with them and we’re even disappointed with the names we are linked with before they arrive.

I’m as guilty of that as anyone, but I think it’s wrong of us on many fronts. I could go on about that but it’s easier to look back on what has happened since Rafa took charge… In 4 year’s he’s had a net spend of 80 million quid. That’s roughly 20 million a season since he’s been in charge. Not a lot really when you consider what the enemy have spent. But despite the hindarances, Rafa has consistently upgraded the quality of the team/sqaud and continued to push us in the right direction.
Take Crouchie’s position, Baros, Cisse, Morientes, Crouch, Bellamy, Torres - a constant upgrade and improvement without busting the bank.

The fact that it’s took 4 seasons to get from Baros to Torres, explains why some people get frustrated and Rafa think it shouldn’t have took him this long to get us where we are. But I think you have to take into consideration what he has been up against, and you can’t ignore the success he has brought us along the way.

So, like I’ve said, I’m not too thrilled with the thought of Barry, Keane, Deegan and Dossenna. But if Rafa thinks they are necessary parts of the team he is trying to build, and seems to prefer them over the likes of Villa and Silva, he deserves our support and trust.

I posted this same article on the Vital Liverpool website yesterday and it got a big reaction from the Villa fans on the same network. The debate is raging over there and some of the comments from both sides are very interesting. Here’s the link if any of you want to check it out.
http://www.liverpool.vitalfootball.co.uk/article.asp?a=114730#yoursay

I couldn’t agree with you more Fatlad! All this clammering for star names makes us no better than Papparazzi chasing after the Beckhams.

Who was Agger 2 years ago? A world class defender, or a kid with potential?
When we signed Skrtel, did anyone in here not say “Martin WHO”?

A lot of people want Keane, but then again, we all thought Bellamy would be awesome for us.

We have no idea if Deggen and Dossena will become the next Agger, or the next Kromkamp.

Just because Torres was able to adapt to the Prem and even come on gangbusters, doesn’t mean Villa/Silva or whoever, could/would do the same.

Problem is though Aitch, if we don’t make a real challenge in the league this year people will start getting on Rafa’s back. You can already hear the rumblings, and it won’t matter how much you defend him plenty will want to push him out the door.
As you know, I think that would be a massive mistake and I honestly hope the lad’s here for at least another 6 seasons and leaves a lasting legacy like he promised to do and is working towards. He’s just signed another 17 year old today, some shit hot Danish striker apparently.

But none of that will mean anything if we are out of the race by Christmas or before next year. and you know what mate, if that’s the case the doubters will have their point.

Interesting reading those comments Gerry. What is blatantly apparent is the total misconception surrounding Rafa, his tactics, buys and how he approaches everything.

Firstly it is pretty obvious Villa will think Barry is worth 18 to 20 mill, but the reality that they refuse to accept is if we walk away they are left with a big problem. It’s fine to stick to your guns for a price but if the player wants away and publicly states it, you fine him 80K for having a bitch then refuse to budge on the price, well they are on a hiding to nothing and the Villa fans cannot see it. They need the deal more than we do at this stage.

The misconception that Rafa cannot buy talent or spot it is so wide of the mark it is laughable. One thing that those comments have dispelled is the fact that Villa fans are defiantly not amongst the brightest, winning the reserve league with a young team ring a bell? A team that Rafa has assembled since he joined and on a minimal budget considering the size of the overhaul. The myth about Wenger is still perpetuated as he merrily carries on building a team for the future ad infinitum, while Rafa has been given no credit for the total and complete rebuilding job of not only our first team squad but our reserves and academy as well.

I am optimistic Hyde and with good cause. We finished 10 points off the pace with all the off the field problems and injuries to key players in particular Agger, which cost us close to those 10 points just by the defensive mistakes and goals we conceded.

We have strengthened our weak areas, we had 6 players last year that had just arrived and that had to be integrated. These where in major positions throughout the team that had an affect in terms of how we gelled and we worked as a unit.

We also injuries to more established players that disrupted us like Alonso, Peanut and Kewel as well as the injury Torres picked up. It took Rafa a fair while to find the best formation that got the best out of the available talent that he had at his disposal.

So yes I think we will be appreciably stronger and I have good reason to be optimistic.

I hear you brother! I understand some of the frustrations with some of Rafa’s decisions at times, I feel those same frustrations…but to question his pedigree and ability … in my opinion… is just nuts.

But I put that in the same category of wanting star players who deliver the goods immediately. Not everyone is a Torres. They are few and far between.

Shit… alot of LFC fans wanted Malouda and slagged Rafa off something wicked when he went to Chelsea… and look at the season he had… fair enough, he might come good this season, but he might just as easily be even worse… especially if his mate Drogba fucks off.

We are all spoiled by our LFC legacy. We want the Premiership title as though we have a divine, god-given right to it.. and more than that, as though it is somehow an easy thing… spawned I think, not only from our dominant 80s success, but from the whole late 90s/early00s “missing piece of the jigsaw” mentality.

I get where that came from. so many times we’ve been so close… in terms of a quality team/squad… and yet finished so far off the pace. I know the point spread has been alarming at times, but in my opinion, and I know there are those that will disagree, the difference between winning the Prem and not, has so often been a small detail.

By that, I mean one injury that has a large effect, or single Refereeing decision that has larger ramifications than is openly obvious, or one player that has a phenomenal season.

I maintain that Winker was the difference last season and had he not had such a phenomenal (and I still think he’s a cunt in spite of it) season, Scum would have finished with 12 points less. I say that because despite their supposedly great squad, he really was the key and sole difference in a handful of 1-0 wins that could easily have been draws or losses for them early in the season, when they were clearly struggling.

The same can be said for the dozen or so crucial deflection goals from Lumpy 25 yarders in Chelsea’s first Prem title run.

In a similar way Torres was crucial for us last season, but where we fell short was in a much smaller goal contribution from the rest of the squad, i.e., likes of Riise is usually good for a half-dozen rockets and Stevie G is usually good for a hatful.
There’s no figuring for that. Benny bagged 10 last season. Will he bag 15 this season, or only 5? Will Torres top 30 again? Will Stevie contribut 15 -20? Will the new boys chip in with a few.

Will Lumpy and Drogba departing affect the Chavs and in what way? Will Bollocks flourish in Lumpy’s absense? How long will it take their new signings to settle?
Will Winker depart Scum? If not, how will his flirtations affect his playing relationship with his teammates. In what way will Queeroz’s departure affect them?

Its all well and good saying it’ll be the usual suspects in the top 4 next season, and recent seasons would support that position, but there are a few teams poised to make the breakthough, should any of those 4 stumble and a bit of luck go their way.

I am relatively confident we can mount a challenge this season… At this point I’d settle for a Quadruple and say it was a moderatley successful season for Rafa and the boys… but that’s coz I’m a lifelong Red whose seen a few trophys added to the cabinet and expects that sort of thing!

As far as the Villa Saga goes… I don’t think MoN is a nut, I think he’s incredibly smart.

You have turned your team into a serious UEFA spot challenger with potential to break into the “top 4″ and just when you reach that make-or-break-step-up season… your Captain and midfield lynchpin AND more importanlty FAN FAVORITE wants away.
Remember how we all reacted to Stevie G wanting away?

So MoN starts chest beating and accusing Liverpool and its reps of all sorts of underhanded shit. Wake up people… he doesn’t actually believe that’s the case, he just doesn’t want the Villa fans chucking pound coins at him in the season opener for selling their favored son!

Of course he’s saying all the shit he’s saying. Of course he wants 20 million for the lad.
I don’t blame him for that at all.
Shit… even banning him from pre-season training is probably a ruse. Like us, Villa are in Switzerland… so making him stay home simply fascilitates the whole, visiting Melwood for the medical, thing that has to happen.

These things are complicated contract negotiations… not car boot sales. Barry will eventually be an LFC player for one of these crazy X million rising to Z million depending on Y parametrers… sort of deals, in the same way that we are selling Crouchy to Pmouth.

I just went and read some of the comments too. And to be honest, I don’t think they’re out of order. Okay the give Rafa, Gerrard, the club in general and us fans some stick. But look at what we’ve called them and Martin O’Neil. It’s called banter lads and has surrounded football for as long as I can remember.

But take off the red tinted glasses and look at it from at least a nuetral, if not Villa, point of view… It was the news papers that unsettled the player after the story leaked from them, but it has been painted and believed to be Rafa’s fault. So, he looks like the real villain of the piece. The shit offers we made them, while pricing our own players - especially Crouch and Carson who they wanted - didn’t help. The price of lesser players - especially Carrick and Hargreaves - has sort of set the price. We will be getting a player who is the finished article, who will go straight into the team and has proved he can perform in this league. Stevie G’s comments didn’t help, made us seem a bit desperate. Indeed, O’Neil knows how desperate things are in the boardroom. And he also knows a left footed player is desperately needed to bring balance to our team and the system Rafa is using. So, all in all, you can’t really blame the club, O’Neil or their fans for taking this stance. and now it’s just down to us. What do we want to do?

Like Keith points out, they now have an unsettled player, and a pissed off manager and fans. So, if I was Parry I’d just walk into the Villa boardroom, plonk 16 million quid and Steve Finnan on the table and say “Take it or leave it.” But knowing how prone to fucking up things Coco is, don’t be suprised if he slaps down 20 million, Torres and Gerrard and say take it or leave it or I’m warning you I’ll give you Reina and Skrtel and Agger aswell.

Kenny before we slate Vorrinon too much remember it was his first year, he came on a free, he landed up in the middle of a free for all with the owners, fans and Rafa taking chunks out of each other.

I watched a season in review and the games he played before he was injured I thought he made quite an impact. Let’s see what he can produce in his second year; he will be more settled, in a more stable environment and with a more settled team. Let’s give the lad a chance; after all he is a squad player, an international that has not cost us anything.

We as fans are so quick to right off players if they are not instant successes. One forgets that last season was Ronaldo’s 4th year at the Manc’s , Fabragas’s 3rd year at the Gunners. Some people take time to settle and what has always stuck in my mind was when Maureen said that ManU would be Chelsea’s closest challenge two years back when they had only brought in Carrick during the transfer window. Nobody rated him and I still do not rate him but Manu needed one more year to gel and settle as a team and everybody knows what happened next. I am not saying we will go out and do that but I firmly believe we will have a strong and sustained challenge even if Barry, Dossena and Deggen plus the keeper are our only signings.

That’s right Keith… and remember we all had a good laugh when United’s big signings were Anderson and Nani.
Who the fuck are these guys? was a common reaction!
Like Agger and Skrtel for us… those two both settled into their part-time rolls very comfortably, adapted to the rigors of the Prem and had remarkable seasons… and they’ve got bags more potential I think, which is why I can’t see Scum holding onto Winker when they can get 50 mill for him.
Fungus’ll posture that RM are unsettling his player and make all the right noises, but I reckon its just that… posturing, so as to not upset the 2 or 3 genuine Scum fans and the millions of bandwagoners. They’ll take the 50 million and laugh all the way to the bank since they won’t even have to buy a replacement coz they already groomed Nani and Anderson last term.

Unfortunately, our gambles haven’t paid off as well.
Will Vorronin show last years pre season form or continue to do his reenactment of Meatloaf singing Paradise By The Dashboard Lights?
Will Benny continue to grow in stature or prove to be useful but lightweight?
Will Kuyt continue his return to form and prove his doubters/detractors wrong?
Will Babel shake off his injury and Euro disappointment and prove a point?
Will Peanut continue to be Peanut… and more importantly will it be with us or Please For The Love Of God…at West Brom or the like.

I know my opinion on each of these questions, but it is just that, an opinion… that could, in each case, really be proven either way!

completley agree about Voronin Keith. i think he’ll have a much better season. the lad could barley speak english when he arrived. an injury and a dip in confidence knocked the lad abit.
his first quater of the season though was pretty good, he got in good positions, he is fairly strong and follows the ball well. it was just his finishing that was shite at the end of the season. thats a confidence thing. a new season could well shake that and kick start the lad into some form. he’s never gonna be first choice, but i think he could become a useful squad player who has an important job at the club.

What the fuck??? Parry couldnt organise a shag in a brothel with a fist full of fifties at liverpool, how the hell is he going to manage organising shit for all of europe??? then again, i spose he isnt exaclty busy with his “work” at liverpool.

“Liverpool chief Rick Parry said his appointment to the newly-formed European Club Association’s board will be beneficial for English football.
Parry joins his Chelsea counterpart Peter Kenyon on a 15-man board which will play a key role in running the European game over the next two years. “

parry… maybe we are missing something that others see, but as is often said, you have to sleep with the right people, and boy, does our man know how to do that for his own sake. Why he doesn’t do so to get players we want is a mystery…

Anyway, my thoughts on the transfer issue.

FS, I understand completely, and in truth, I really have mixed feelings about the players we are getting.

Of course, I know, as a matter of fact, that the big name players do not always do the job. I also know very well that even if he was given a lot of financial backing, Rafa would not automatically go for the stars, let alone buy them at the asking price.
Moreover, I fully respect Rafa’s judgement on players that he seemed to have picked out of nowhere. Reina, Alonso and Arbeloa– none of these guys had received constant call-ups for their national side before joining liverpool, but look what Rafa has done for them.

No, my underlying deep frustration is directed towards the owners who can only allow rafa to constantly target players with “probable” substance and not established substance.

Rafa deserves much more than this. Why does he have to sell players to create funds to upgrade our team when it is blatantly clear that we are already lacking depth in our squad in comparison to Manure and Chelski!? We need to add, not cut and paste (barring a couple of the odd players).

As a matter of fact and result, it is true that we were quite close in terms of points difference to Manure. Mathematically speakind, all we needed was to have drawn both of our games against the mancs, and turned 2 or 3 of of our so-called “dropped” games into wins, and the EPL title would have been ours.

But is it really that close?

My view is that this difference in points is quite significant in comparison to the last couple of seasons.

It is one thing to close a 20 point gap into a 10 point deficit but to overturn the remaining 10 points difference to end top of the league is a completely different story.

Getting players like Arbeloa, Skrtel and Voronin (no offense to any of them) and using them “effectively” to become a “decent” team that can come close to the top 2 is pretty easy for someone with the abilities of Rafa.

But I really believe that the last touch of difference to complete a winning side then comes down to the number of matchmakers you have in the squad, and tactics/strategy really becomes just a backdrop. No matter how spot on Rafa “gets it” during the match, if the players do not perform his plan or finish off the chances created, then that final 10 point diference cannot be closed, and it will be the same old story all over again.

It may be pleasing to our mind to just look at the difference in points and say it was only a couple of games. But look over many of the games that we suffered, and really rethink whether it would have made a big difference if we had played with barry and dossena/ degen (although of course, to be fair, we can’t really judge the effect of having dossena or degen in our lineup yet). Once Torres or Gerrard were contained or were not playing well, we really were clueless and looked like Derby in those games.

Compare that to some of the games manure really suffered and were about to drop points but “miraculously” grabbed 3 points at the last gasp. They did it because they had the players that made the difference, not because they hard Ji sung Park (although he was effective in some games) or Fletcher. Winker-wanker did his annoying tricks to scare off the defenders; Tevez seemed to pop up with his ugly jaw when he was missing for most of the game; Rooney still managed to pull it off with a limp and let’s not forget how Giggs can come in and turn the tide.

The difference in the substance of these matches is pretty huge in my opinion. Match-makers cost a lot of money for a reason. That final few points is what makes all the difference, and it is the players that create that difference.

Barry is a very good player, but is he a rooney, winker, tevez or a giggs?? Who else do we have other than SG and Torres?

Therefore, my personal conviction is that the final overturn of points and completion of the squad require players in the Torres or winker-wanker mould, full-stop. Again, I may sound like I am contradicting myself, but I am not trying to question Rafa’s judgement. Rafa said many times in recent interviews that he is beginning to understand why we seemed to suffering in retaining the EPL when we are doing so well in the CL. I think his review has made his eyes turn to players who are not considered to be the most talented in the world market but are very capable in the EPL– Barry, Keane, milner shite and downing shite. He probably never even considered them in his first 2 years because he knows that, objectively speaking, none of them are top-tier players. However, he now understands that our side is lacking people that are capable in the gritty games of the premiership, and so has started to change his policy into getting these EPL-based players. That change of transfer policy is quite logical.

However, I also believe that he did not go for or gave up looking at someone like Alves, Villa or Silva because he knows that one acqusition of that type would ruin his transfer budget.

We are so close and yet so far because we don’t have the money to complete it.

I know Rafa is slowly getting there, and I am certain we will eventually get there under Rafa, if he is given the time period to slowly upgrade his team. As you say, it took us four years to get to Torres, when we should have got there in 2. That is not Rafa’s fault, it is down to how crap this club has been run.

So I will continue to be frustrated and will continue to be disappointed with stories linking us to riera and the like regardless of whether we finally get there in the near future because it is evidence illustrating how low we have become. People say Rafa is fond of committed players and does not like players who consider themselves bigger than the team. But who doesn’t?? The core of the team must always have a “red-minded committment” but there are many great players that can be like that. We just can’t afford them. I respect Rafa, and he deserves more financial support.

What worries me is, as many point out, is that a lot of people and the media will cry for Rafa’s head if he does not win the league next season.

If he gets Barry and Keane, they will constantly hammer him for spending but not reaping results when in reality, those players are not enough to warrant him anything.

I am doom and gloom because Rafa may have to part with out club next season, when I just cannot see his fault in the essence of the failure of not winning the EPL.

At the same time, I may be proved wrong (and I hope I am) and we may win the league next season. But even if we do win next season by getting only Barry, Dossena, degen and perhaps a milner mould player, then I still will not be satisfied and worried, simply because it is clear to anyone’s eyes that such a squad is not “worthy” of a top finish. It only would have been down to the mastery of Rafa. However, I can bet my money now that in such a scenario, the Board will not look at it that way and forget to support him for the season after that to further strengthen the squad.

So you see, my frustration is not based simply from my emotional desire to see exciting names, it is because we really need them. Sure get barry and the like cos we need them as well, I won’t deny that, and i would be pretty happy if we win the league next year with these players.

But, would I be satisfied and optimistic about the future with just those lads? Unfortunately not.

That prospect is causing my frustration.

I hope I’m making sense. I luv my team to bits and it really hurts to see how crap our transfer haa been for many years.

HydeBlog

sorry about that aussie, will try to make it lighter next time.

nah mate,dont appologise. it was a good read. i enjoyed it. Agree with you 100%.

Spartak Moscow are only after £12 million for Roman Pavlyuchenko.

Could do worse than him…i thought he was class during the Euros.

is that so, aussie? Now that is a bargain. I also thought he was brilliant, although he was a bit Roger Hunt-like in that he would miss some sitters.

It also seems that Barca are not looking to meet Zenit’s asking price for Arshavin. He was a bit pricey, but worth every penny methinks. This may mean that premier clubs could have a chance withr him– oh I wish….

yeah good one Hyde… I agree, maybe next year Rafa can splash most of his budget on one or two players, but then SG is doesn’t have another 5 years of waiting left in him… Time is now…

Yep Lancey, will SG wait for another 2 years? Will the two muppets be able to hold back and let Rafa “rear” the promising youngsters in the academy to build a dynasty if he does not win the title in the near future? Will the media and band wagon riders be objective enough to see the fundamental difference between the mancs/chelski and us?
I don’t want to be hasty, but if rafa does not get financial backing soon, and buy time by buying his number 1 targets and winning the league next year or the year after that, I fear Rafa may be cut short of his legacy.

Aston Villa - We want one of their players that’s all! It’s their perogative to say know and hold out. it’s our perogative to make an offer. Barry wants to come! he could have said no, it’s as simple as that! Chavski wanted Stevie G I was gutted but i didn’t blame the chavs, I didn’t want him to go and i think the Chav’s are scum but they made a bid and we didn’t accept and he’s still here. now if any team waged a campaign to unsettle a player it was the chavs, Fat Frank in his ear all through the euros, maureen looking for him at the end of the league cup final to shake his hand and say if you come hear son you’ll win things. So no I can’t see why Villa are jumping out of their pram. They don’t need the money so don’t sell if we don’t meet their asking price it’s that easy. Of course they have a decision to make will they put their top player in the reserves or will they sell him? The ball’s in their court.

Now Hyde. I understand you on the transfer front but you need to relax a little bit. a top class manager can make the difference. Rafa can spot the talent needed. Of course if we can get another Torres ie class, full of skill, hard working and humble then i’m sure he would but he can also spot players who are good enough before they become houshold names eg, Agger, Skyrtle.
also don’t underestimate the pulling power of LFC. We are being poorly run at the moment but when a player we go after knows it’s LFC that is a big factor in determining where he will go. You have to remember that in the 70’s and 80’s LFC were the top team in European football. Our reputation was bigger than manure’s in Europe of course here in ingerland the mancs have always been the darlings. I can’t remember who it was but a foreign player the other day said in an interview that LFC are on the same level as manure. This is after us not winning the title for 20 years. So don’t fret too much about us not being able to attract good players. maybe we can’t afford the top class houshold names but with Rafa we can get in players of sufficient quality to give the title a really good go. I think our squad needs some fine tuning now just a couple of good additions.

Kenny, i know, but the thing is, the odds are higher in the signings being a miss if we always go for a hidden gem. It means the chances are that our squad will keep on requiring that final “fine-tuning” if majority of our signings are based on waiting for a surprise player.

Also, I do hope our brand image is still as good as you say. But you have to remember, there are more and more players now who do not have any personal memories of the 70s and 80s. Messi was born in the late 80s. By the time he had a memory, we were a mediocre team, and probably regarding us as an equivalent to how we look at Newcastle or Everton. It is only because we have done well in the CL that we have managed to maintain some of that luring power.

hyde it’s only in ingerland that LFC are not as respected as they should be. On the continent we have are respected and are a big club added to that Rafa is respected as a top coach and manager. If I mention Benfica what do you think? Big club or small club? They haven’t done anything for years. Ajax? Inter Milan haven’t done anything in Europe for ages, Barca have only won the European cup twice. All are considered big clubs here in ingerland, of course with barca it goes without saying.

I read some of the comments of the Villa fans some of them made a similar argument to what I think pay the money or don’t, there’s no need to cry about anything. others just came out with the same old crap, get a job, stealing hub caps blah blah doesn’t offend me it just bores me.

well, kenny, I guess you are right. And there’s no denying that the presence of Rafa is doing a world’s good in maintaining our image. More so when we have to bafoons ruining our club as we speak.

With respect to the vital football link that Gerry posted, in essence, everyone at Villa is feeling edgy since it is their most central player that is being targeted. I just wish some would read the Torres interview where he mentions an upset long-time Atlethico fan wishing him the best at the airport on the day he was to leave for Liverpool.

Here’s something I just read. Someone posted it on another fan site and he and the article got leathered. I think the reaction would have been a lot different if it was written by someone with a bit of respect. But anyway, see what you think of it. I reckon it tells a lot of truth…

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/feature?id=554031&sec=england&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab1pos1&cc=5901

Fat scouse i learnt a new word a month back : skint and somehow i believed hang on we can surely bring in one class player e.g silva. we can’t be that bad but just reading that article gave me skintbumps ..and regarding the comments on vital im not scouse but why does everyone seem to have a vendetta against the scousers it just baffles me cos the article is purely about football ..

FS

I see nothing wrong with that article.

We spent a net 20m last summer. we spend a net 15m in the Jan transfer window with Skrtel, Mash & Momo, so it looks like we have 5m left in this summers buget, if at all.

At least we are getting reasonable fees now for the players we are selling, otherwise we would be truly goosed!

Hyde - I agree with your post #57 100%

Some people talk about those who want star names as if we want them for cosmetic purposes. Fact is they are a necessity to win the league. I do not believe it is possible to win the title with only 2 world class attacking players. I watched the mancs play many games they should have lost last season and then Ronaldo would go past 3 players and bury it with 3 mins to go. The match at Anfield where Tevez scored that goal at the kop end to win them the game. I’m pretty sure that had that chance fallen to anyone in our side other than Torres a goal would not have been scored. Then you see Scholes scoring a volley from 30 yards in a tight match. Or Giggs producing magic.

Hyde is right - to bridge those last 10 points will be the most difficult. When the heat is on in matches in April and May I don’t think tactics or managers decisions win games in the PL. The great players with bottle do.

That goal Torres scored at Stamford bridge in the semi final. I don’t think anyone other LFC player would have scored it. We would not have won the CL in 2005 if Gerrard didn’t play like superman against Olympiacos. We would have not won the cup in 2006 either. You can give Rafa credit of course for winning those trophies and it is deserved but at the end of the day without those bits of magic we’d have won fuck all. As Hyde says players that can produce that magic cost a lot of money so unless we can compete for more of these players in the transfer market or unearth a gem or 2 (which happens once in a blue moon) we aint winning the league.

LB Didi had a lot to do with out CL win, don’t underestimate his effort. Our shirt also supplied it’s super human qualities, there is a reason most super hero’s ware red.
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FS, I think the article is sound and quite honest, I don’t think there is anything in it that doesn’t or hasn’t been said on this blog. It shouldn’t really get slated, most of it’s true.
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I think it was Hicks who said to Rafa play the players you have, and even though I think he’s a proper f-wit, he’s challenging Rafa like Rafa challenges his players. Eg You want them now play them, if there not good enough, make them.
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Yeah I know it’s fucking shit but I’m grasping. Alas though is that the winning mentality that Rafa’s now demanding. Fuck it still grasping.
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What the fuck has been happening in our boardroom for the last 15 years. Have a bunch of RSL bowlers been running the club. Moores the buck stops with you. Grasping and Ranting, I’ve moved on.

LB you’re right about needing players with bottle and I don’t think we’re short in that department but we are a bit short in the class department, a player who makes that bit of difference in tight situations as you mentioned like Ronaldo or tevez. However i think we’re moving in the right direction. Last year we had torres and Gerrard but I think babel will make a big step in that direction this coming season and I also think Kuyt will score a decent number of goals. i don’t think we lack going forward we were a bit shaky at the back and we lack a bit of creativity in the midfield a Deco type player but I think we have that player on the books in Dani Pacheco but he’s obviously a little bit away from the 1st team. Nemeth looks class as well.

I also think benny gives us that bit of creativity if only he could give the width when needed instead of cutting in all the time and jamming up the the centre of midfield.

Good to read in the Echo that Rafa is challenging the youngsters to make the challenge for 1st team football this season. Plessis, Insua, Pacheco, Nemeth and I think bruna are going to be used in pre season games.

When we used to win the league regularily, we often had 1 - 0 wins with last gasp goals from all over the pitch. In fact, we used to get shit from everyone for it for what nowadays Man United and Chelsea get praised for… their never say die attitude and ability to grind out results when the other teams refused to be beaten.

I suppose it’s called a winning mentality. Players used to become Stars after they’d proved themselves and won a few things. Them days are now gone. but whose to say players such as Arshavin would come to Liverpool and give us that final push?

I understand exactly what Hyde and LB are saying. and believe me, I wouldn’t be too miffed if the likes of Arshavin, Sylvia or Villa turned up at Anfield. But we have to be realistic, and accept they probably won’t. So, what does that leave with us…. the hope that Rafa can get the team right and go on a winning run that turns into a winning mentality, that turns into trophies, that turns players like Babel into world stars and turns Anfield back into the fortress Shankly and Paisley left behind.
Fat chance I know, but what’s the other alternative… throw in the towel before we even start?
Well, that’s not for me. I will just hope for the best but expect the worst. In fact, I accept that we could be in for a very long and disappointing season. The first few weeks could already see us off the pace. The injury to Babel and the Olympics demands on him and Masch have me very worried. That’s before I even start thinking about all the other obstacles in our way. but you have to keep the faith lads.
Well, you don’t but I will anyway.

Don’t mean to go on, but do want to say this…. When people start talking about the best Liverpool teams and players they ever saw, they always rattle off the great exciting names - HUnt, St. John, Tommo, Keegan, Toshack, Heighway, Rush, Dalglish, Barnes, Owen, Fowler, etc.

But I tell you something, the best Liverpool teams I ever had the priveledge to see contained Alan Hansen and Mark Lawrenson. I know they sometimes seem like knobheads on the Beeb, but them lads could play. they were the most fantastic center back pairing I have ever seen. Of course they always had great players ahead of them. But for every Souness, Dalglish or Rush, there was a Case, Nicol, Jones, etc.
And that was what made Liverpool the force they was - good solid players in every position, backed up by a very solid but footballing back four.

Well, I think we are getting close to that again now. And yes, I am worried about how it could all go tits up this season. But the fact is, we haven’t got the playing nor financial resources of Man U or Chelsea. and we only have to look at Arsenal last season to see how easily you fall away without the resources. But I refuse to accept/believe that we can’t compete. And although I’m worried about how easily it could go wrong, I’m going hold onto the belief that we have the spine of the team right, and a few correct, not necessarily big name signings, can push us all the way to the title.

I agree FS. Lawro and Hansen superb. One of the most important but underated players for me was Ronnie Whelan great player for LFC. I agree that it is correct signings for LFC that we need. we are solid, We have that bit of class in defense with Agger and Skyrtle, Monster, Gerrard in midfield, Torres, Babel up front. A little bit more class and we are there. Rafa is so astute. anyone watch the videos in the Pacheco analysis? Some of the technique of those youngsters superb. they also lacked a bit of nouse but that will come. had me licking my lips with anticipation.

As regards big names/superstars - well great if we can get them but the league can be won if you build a team - very difficult I know but who would believe you now if said Blackburn won the league with Jason Wilcox, Stuart Ripley, Tim Sherwood and Colin Hendry? Solid players but not great built into a good team by King Kenny.

FS, sorry if i offended your hope and faith. I do have faith in Rafa, and at the end of the day, I have to keep on hoping, just like you.
But what I can’t accept is that some will start to criticise rafa if he does not win this season, when it is clear that he should be the last to blame. I just wanted to make sure, without making any excuses for our gaffer, that our squad is nowhere near as good as the mancs or chelski’s.
As you rightly point out, that team with lawrenson and Hansen in our side (as I said, I was watching them again over the weekend!!) was not filled with stars. But what I can tell you is that, in addition to the fact that football was played differently back then (it was much more physical and thus required more physically determined players on the pitch rather than flair players), they had more match-makers than our current side.

and gaz, I doubt LB is underestimating didi’s involvment in that final. What he and myself is trying to say is that, at the end of the day, it is the players that make the direct difference that has to be taken into account. Didi allowed Stevie to do his stuff; but the vital point is, stevie is a player that has the “stuff.” There’s no point in allowing peanut to do his stuff! KENNY also makes that point thru a different light in his commment #75. Benny has creativity but he can only cut inside. That is his weakness and the vital difference that renders him to be regarded a good player but not one of the best.

In any event, as a fan, once the season starts, I will focus on being hopeful and stop the gloom and doom nonsense because there is no turning back. But it is going to hurt if we end up having a nightmare season because it was easily in coming.

Walk on i will, but i also want to be mentally ready for a different scenario in order to prevent emotional backlash from others who were not.

Hyde you haven’t offended me in anyway mate. You haven’t even said anything I don’t really agree with, neither has LB.
In fact, you are making a lot of points I would myself - especially the fact that the knives will get drawn for Rafa if we don’t make a push for the title.

I also fully agree that we should be shopping in Harrod’s not Lidel. A basic rule of life is - you get what you pay for. So, while it’s true that top named players don’t guarentee success, they simply cost more because their better.

And, I might go on about Rafa not being the sort of manager who wants or needs to splash cash, but when he has been able to force money out of the other pair look what he done with it… Torres, Masch, Babel. Not exactly cheap. In fact when Rafa does spend a few quid on a player, he usually gets it right.

So, believe me mate I’d love to see him get the money to go and splash on his first choice players
but I also have the belief he can succeed without multi-millions to throw about.

I suppose the real question is, how long has he got to deliver?

absolutely, FS. The two pricks are easily swayed by the tone of the media, and the media, we know, is down right offensive and unfair against Rafa. I don’t think he has much time as we would hope for, I daresay any more further for fear it may happen.

Alright, going home now lads. Dunno if i can get much sleep though.

Well Hyde mate, here’s what I’d do if I was in charge at the moment…
Get Rafa in the office, tell him exactly what money he had to work with, and tell him he has at least the next 3 season’s without fearing for his job. But I’d tell him straight… deliver the title in that time or you are out.

And I’d also tell him I’d like some silverware in the mean time - at least an FA Cup and hopefully a CL final - but he wouldn’t be sacked even if we won nothing for the next 2 seasons.

I know that’s not ideal. But let’s face it, we’ve waited 19 years now. And for most of that time, we’ve lived in hope and faith, and our poor manager’s have lived under constant pressure and our expectations.

It will never happen. But I’m sure if Rafa, or any decent manager at any big team, had that sort of security behind them, they would be able to not only build a successful team but also a lasting legacy.

Lads. I think you have all made some excellent points, in particular how much time will Rafa be given.

I think that depends largely on who owns the club a the end of the coming season, but funnily enough I dont think Rafa will be able to stop looking over his shoulder no matter who is there. Only Fergie and Wenger can be confident that they wont be sacked by thier clubs, Scolari will probably be given 2 seasons to deliver the prem at Chelsea.

LB, your idea of Rafa been given 3 years to deliver the prem IS as it should be, but as you say, it will never happen.

FS, as reds we will all always have hope in our hearts, but if we were honest I would guess around 95% of us dont expect us to win the prem next season and I would guess that around half of us expect us to REALLY challenge for the title, meaning we are still in with a shout with half a dozen games or so to go.

I read your words FS, and I realise that you are describing exactly how I feel as well, and I would imagine most of us for that matter. Our optomism, I feel, is being compromised by the double effect of knowing we cannot compete financially with Chelsea and Man.U, and also the feeling that comes to supporters of a club that have not proved themselves to be the best for the best part of two decades, alas there is no escaping this feeling until we have won the title again.

Anyway guys those are my thoughts regarding recent posts. We will always be Reds, we will always have hope. No one can take that away from us.

Oh well, off to bed and off to Liverpool in the morning. Family funeral to attend on Thursday, but I’ll be going the Tranmere game on Saturday aswell. Probably sounds a bit bad that, but that’s how it is. Win lose or draw, this life, the past life, the next life, the after life… YNWA.

Have been thinking (not what aussies are usually known for, granted). i reckon Robbie Keane would be a REASONABLE addition to our squad even though he’s not much better than crouch really. I think crouchy can consider himself pretty unlucky how things have panned out for him. And I hope he gets a great reception when he comes back to anfield, and I’m sure he will. Having said that, I actually think Keane is a step up from Crouch, not a huge step up, but a step up nonetheless. And with the limited funds, Rafa gets, that’s how he works. gradual improvement in every position, basically trading up and each time he replaces a player, it’s with someone who offers more to the team overall, resulting in a net improvement. Keane can play up top on his own if need be, something that Crouchey struggled with, and I reckon he’d be a decent foil for El Nino. although to be fair, Crouchey didn’t get much of an opportunity to show how well he could work with the Spaniard.
I can’t really say I’m happy about the Riera link as I think he was shit at city and he has been severley overpriced. But he may have matured into a good player and I trust Rafas judgement for the most part.
The unfortunate thing for Crouch is that he showed no willingness to stay and fight it out by rejecting the contract offer. It would have made him an expensive option for the teams that have been courting him, BUT he would have shown the type of commitment that might have made Rafa reward him with more game time last season.No doubt he’ll be welcomed back on Merseyside.

I have come around, despite my reluctance to loose Xabi to thinking that maybe Barry does offer a little more overall to the team, especially in the way of goals and adaptability (can’t see Xabi playing on the wing can you?).

IF the two full backs are an improvement (let’s face it, Dossena has to be better than Riise has been) and we have Agger, Skrtel and Carra fit for the majority of the season, added to Stevie Me, Masch(made up every time I see him play for us), Torres and Pepe, we defo have the defence and the core of a team that can challenge. I’m not saying win, but possibly challenge. Stability in the boardroom (although that’s a big IF) along with support and delegation on the training ground with a new defensive coach and little fat sammy lee being the coaches link to the players should all help solve some of the other problems that plagued last season. Throw in squad players capable of better than decent performances (Benni, Kuyt) and the promise of young lads (babel, Lucas(still not convinced about Lucas though)) and I really think, that we’ve at least as good a shout of competing from the start as any other season lately.

Hopefully we’ll be luckier than we have been with injuries too.

With Liverpool though it seems like we address the problems of the previous season, only to find something else dragging us down, before long in the new term. Hopefully we’ll get out of that pattern.

I think we’re worth a shout. Don’t think we’ll win it though, but we can get closer. As Hyde says We’re ten points off the pace now. The last ten points are the hardest to close. Going from 20 to 10 is a lot easier than going from 10 to winning it.

One again, im indifferent about the pending season. cant decide weather im excited or bricking it…probably both if im honest.

morning, lads (my sincerest condolences to you FS).

Strangely enough, Rafa has now admitted that Villa is on his hit list but also admitted that it would be difficult to sign him……I wonder what the purpose of his expression was….will we, or won’t we.

In any event, this is the first time that a proper player has been linked to us officially. although I doubt that we can buy him.

i reckon he’s just done it to jack the price up for anyone else.

On a different topic, I am chasing a LFC sports leather jacket, the only LFC jackets I seem to be able to find are the training and Rain jackets. I am looking for something a little more casual. Any ideas where to go guys????

Save your money and dont line Hick’s pocket.

Yo LB, I don’t mean to be argumentative, but it was Pongolle and Mellor that did the hard work against Olympiakos… granted Stevie drove the nail in the coffin most emphatically, but it was the other two that should have gotten the lions share of the praise for that game… in my opinion.

And I have to agree with FS sentiment regarding the grafters in the mix. My faves were always the Houghtons, Nicols, Whelans, McMahons of our team. Even bit parters, who’s careers got cut short, like Markus Babbel and Rob Jones.

Gary Mac’s contribution during the Treble Season was priceless, as too were Vladi Smicer and Nick Barmby, scoring crucial goals in qualifiers en-route to the final, as Kuyt and Benny did in last year’s CL campaign.

I don’t think anyone would turn their noses up at a Torres Twin, but the reality is we need to be unearthing, or utilizing workaday players like Benny and Kuyt, and hopefully these two new blokes.

People complain about Benayoun cutting inside, but let’s face it, he hasn’t had an overlapping fullback filling the space he leaves… maybe he and Deggen will form a tactical partnership down the right this term?

Nah… you can keep your mercenaries. Give me a team of honest hard working players (hear that Stevie, stay on yer feet lad) and then we can truly celebrate when we win the double this season.

And YES, we can. That’s the beauty of Footy lads. In spite of Star Names and Big Money transfers, over 90 minutes… Anyone can beat anyone.

Yes, in 90 minutes anyone can beat anyone, but over the course of a season, the team with the better players inevitably come out on top.

Mind you, im not argueing with you. I prefer the hard workers than the show ponies too. Theres a certain honesty and credibility to a hard worker that you just dont get with a flash wanker like Ronaldo.

I buy that a_k… I just don’t buy that spending 50 mill per summer means you necessarily get the better players… Diouf and Cisse anyone??

Its all well and good suggesting Arshavin is worth 25 million coz he’s class…. but was he class 6 months ago?
I’m willing to bet at least half the people calling him class now, wouldn’t have even known his name 6 months ago. Will he continue to grow, or once he gets his nice comfy big-money deal, and moves from St.Petersberg’s winters to sunny Spain, will he become the next Cisse/Diouf?
We can gues one way or the other, but we won’t KNOW, until next May!

Who was Agger when we bought him? World Class, or just promising kid who has since come good?
You could certainly put Winker into that category (if the idea of calling him world class doesn’t now stick horribly in the back of your throat, as it does mine!)

Even Masch was a bit of an unknown quantity when we bought him really. I mean he couldn’t get into the fuckin West Ham team for fucks sake… tell me that made sense!!!
So I’m willing to see what Deggen and Dossena have to offer before I judge them as “not the sort of signings we need.”

On the one hand I kind of like the idea of people writing us off before the season has even started. THAT tends to be when LFC are always at their best! So fear not faithful followers (or, fuck it, go ahead and envision the sky falling) I’ll wait until I’ve seen some performances and results before I start slicing my wrists.

League and at least 1 cup… a double I fancy us for!

And yes I am only really making that prediction so that I can be a complete Dick come may and come in here and claim to be the only one who told you so!

well… yes and no. Plenty of players cost are fortune and turn out to be shite, yes. But what also, teams that have the ability to purchase the most amount of expensive players tend to win the league. thats why you tend not to see bolton challenging for the EPL title.
Diouf and Cisse cost alot (for us) and they turned out to be not so good. Torres and Masch also cost alot and they turned out to be class.
Agger and Skrtl didnt cost an arm and a leg and they turned out to be class. While Gonzalez and kromkamp did not cost much, and turned out to be pretty poor. You never know. But with the more expensive players, the gamble is less. they have usually prooved themselves in some way shape or form, so at least you know they have the ability. where as with the cheaper players are more of an unknown quantity.

you dont necessarily get better players by spending 50 million instead of say 20 million, but your chances are you greatly increased.

Personally, I don’t buy the “I would rather have a team full of hard-working players” agenda. Of course, I hate winker-wanker’s attitude, and I have a soft spot for Kuyt because they are always running their socks off. I also fully acknowledge that a team will always need efficient or hard-working players that can carry the water silently. We will always need someone like Kuyt and Arbeloa.

But to say that a team with a majority of players being such type would be more than capable is going a bit too far. It is one thing to love the spirit of Carra and hail that we want a team full of Carraghers, but, if we really had a first team with only the ability of Carra, we won’t be even in the Champions’ League. And the ball will always be in row Z!!

We definitely needed efficient supporting players, but at the end of the day, that vital difference is caused by the different players, arrogant or not. The more option we have of these players, the more chance we have of grinding away results, and that is the truth.

Moreover, creative players can be taught to be committed as well. Rooney and Tevez do run their rollocks off even for defending, and Ronaldo, despite the fact that he is a tart and moans too much, does have a high work ethic. Our very own Jan Molby was a tough tackler.

I think we need to put our sentiments and personal preferences aside and admit the fact that we have too many efficient but so-so players.

Im glad your not buying it Hyde, cause thats not what im selling. Of course we cant have a team of carraghers…fuck me, 11 guys who get nose bleeds everytime they got past the half way line would be useless.

I wouldnt consider Torres, Gerrard or Babel a flash wanker. All three are highly talented and creative and probably more the type of players that we need.

Hey guys,

Just read an article that says Pako is linked to manure.

http://www.4thegame.com/club/liverpool-fc/news/220214/ayesteran_in_united_link.html

I’d lose all respect for Pako if he did that… not that he’d give a fuck about that mind you.

Hyde, I get where you’re coming from. Unfortunately, I disagree.

I coached a team of teenagers to 2 consecutive League titles, one of which was in an undefeated season… and did a cup double both seasons. There wasn’t a special talent among them. Just hard workers that I stuffed into an efficient system and got them playing with pride, for me and each other. And they beat top seeded teams along the way.

I realize the Prem is a whole different kettle of fish, but still … my experience tells me that the right players and the right system can do it over a season… and I believe that can be transposed by someone like Rafa to the Prem level…. Shit, he already did it in the CL with the bunch he had then, and we have a better squad now, even with the journeymen we have… so why all the doom and gloom going into this season.

That’s fine Aitch and I can’t speak for your team, but what you have to realise with our CL win is that it was possible because it was a cup tournament and not a league.

Cups are totally different affairs to league games where fitness, mentality and strategy can be used to its full extent. And you do not have to actually win a game in 90 or 120 minutes. A team like Greece can win the Euros precisely because it is a cup. Theroretically, it is possible to win a Cup tournament by playing a 0-0 game all the time, because there are penalties.

In a league, you cannot win by constantly getting away with draws (which we have been doing on too many a occasion). To win a league title, what seemed destined for a draw must be turned into a win. A team full of Carra cannot do that. They can play for a draw, yes, but when a touch of class is needed to get 3 points and not 1, then players with a little more something are called for. That’s my point. We are not dubbed a “Cup team” for nothing, good or bad.

Hyde your gonna love this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/7496686.stm

Yeah, LB cheers for that, I was initially chuffed to bits when I saw this.

I had a brief conversation on this with aussie a couple of hours ago, and what was disappointing for me was the part where rafa says “But maybe it will be difficult.”

Is he talking about the price and our meager budget? If he is, then we might as well forget this deal ever coming thru.
However, I am hoping what he means is that Valencia are, for the moment, not looking to let them go regardless of the price, which is what the club had recently stated on Villa and Silva. If this is the case, then we might just be able to convince them to let Villa go.

I won’t get too excited, but as I said earlier, this is the first time that I have seen us being officially linked to a proper player, and that enough is something to cherish right now….

It’s called balance lads. It’s about getting the right players in the right positions in the right system.
You only have to look at Real Madrid in their Galactico years to know that star names doesn’t equal great team.
But I’ve seen many a machine like team batter their way to success - Don Revie’s Leeds being the worst, Brian Clough’s Forest being the best. But they still needed that spark from somewhere - John Robinson and Trevor Francis for Forest, Alan Clarke and Peter Lorimer for Leeds.

And as much as team of Carragher’s would be woeful, would it beat a team of Ronaldo’s? In a fight, defo. But at footy, well it would just be shite. So, we need the balance.

But we’ve got Rafa. And that’s one thing I know he definetly can do - come up with the balance, the right players, in the right positions, playing in the right system.
If you personally take on any sort of job, you need 2 things to do it - time and money. But if you don’t have much of either one, you need more of the other. It’s like building a house - if you have the dosh you call in the plumbers, the sparks, etc. If you haven’t got the dosh, you set about it yourself, and, if you’re any good, it takes longer but you get there. I happen to believe Rafa is good and he will get there.

I hope that didn’t sound condescending. It did a bit to me, but it wasn’t meant to be. It was just a daft way of making me point.

Anyway, got to get meself sorted. I was drunk last night, so I’m a bit hanging and I’m off to Liverpool this afternoon. Thanks for the condolenses Hyde. And it’s not really the place to be saying this, but it was an auld aunty of mine. A great great girl who will be sorely misssed. Me Ma had 11 sisters and 4 brothers. Our family funerals are always more of a celebration of their lives than a mourning of their passing. But it’s very sad to see them dwindling away. We’re getting down to the last of the Mohicans now.

Aitch, a team that is tactically astute and well organised and well managed with hard working players - only 2 of which are top class in terms of attacking ability will not win the Premier league title I’m afraid. Such a team can win the odd cup. Denmark 1992, Greece 2004, Porto 2004, Liverpool 2005. Even these occasions are few and far between.

We can nit pick about who made the most contribution to what ever game but it is my belief that without Stevie G’s magic we would not have beaten Olympiacos or West Ham in the cup final. If it wasn’t for the magic of Torres there would have been a lot more dropped points last season. The better players make the difference at the highest level.

I’m not going to kid myself that we’ll somehow win the league with a team who is inferior (in terms of attacking talent) to at least 3 other sides in the league. Simply tightening up at the back is not going to make the difference. Last season we conceded some sloppy goals and dropped points as a result. Next season will be another problem no doubt. The only way to resolve those problems is to have the players to get you out of a hole when needed. 2006 cup final was a case in point - all season our defence was water tight, all of a sudden the team forgot to defend and we shipped goals at will. Stevie G to the rescue. There are also times where the ref will give a dodgy penalty against, like the Chelsea game at Anfield, we were 1-0 up thanks to 2 bits of magic - a stevie pass and great Torres goal. Despite totally dominating the game we couldnt’ score another goal. One dodgy penalty 1-1 and we drop 2 points. I’m sure with one or 2 more top class attacking players we’d have been 3-0 against Chelsea long before that penalty. I’m also sure that with one or 2 more top players we wouldn’t have such an inferiority complex against the mancs.

Is it a coincidence that Rafa’s 2 best buys have been the most expensive?

People talk about Skrtel and Agger. Its easier to find a top quality defender for a lower price. We can reel off a few top quality defenders we’ve signed over the past 5-10 years for little money. Hyppia, Marcus Babbel, Agger, Skrtel, Henchoz, Finnan, Riise. Now how many top quality attacking players have we signed in the same period for little money? For less than £10m? Erm…….

The ability to spend big money on attacking players doesn’t guarantee anything but it gives you a chance. Without top quality attacking players you have no chance of winning the PL! Never forget Rafa’s rant after the 2007 CL final. It’s the most honest interview I believe he’s ever given.

You know what is really pissing me off at the moment. I dont know how true this is, but it has been reported in a few places that MON has now given us an offer for Barry (as a counter offer to the one we gave villa). He wants 17mil plus finnan. Obviousaly Villa are desperate to sell and MON realises he cant hold onto to Barry, and if he does it wont be beneficial.
I say we tell him where he should stick his offer! Now we should start to play hard ball. He says 17mil plus finnan, we should come back and say 14mil and no finnan or we walk.

This is like a company rejecting a 100mil takeover bid and demanding 120mil and then realising the company is going broke and they need to sell so they tell the bidder they want 130mil and they will sell now.

I know i havent been on much lately, but ive read all your comments. I say Fuck Barry. Focus on attainable targets, maybe Villa?

Yes, we need more attacking brilliance in our team to really challenge for the prem.

In the late eighties we had the brilliance of Barnes and Beardsley to call upon, and Johnny Aldridge knew where the onion bag was as well.

At least four players to get double figures in the prem, with two of them getting at least 25 goals each, that is what we require.

Torres could well get between 25 to 30, but who else do we have? You would be confident that Stevie would get about 15 in the prem, but apart from them two?

This is why I for one would love to see someone like Robbie Keane coming to Anfield, but will it happen?????

We can take it that the Barry transfer will go through, now that Villa are starting to talk.

Oh well, see you lads Sunday night. Hope there’s been some good news by then. Who knows, maybe Bob and Bill will send a couple of lightning bolts to H&G. I’ll tell me aunty to pass on the word.
YNWA

Wow, so much dire straights in here guys, sure with fair reason… The ONLY team I thought we looked inferior to was Manure and I’ll admit to that without acting like a spoilt sport.
EVERY other team we at least match if not destroyed them (I’m thinking of out triple header with Arsenal)…
Sure match winners are always welcome and I will subscribe to us wanting another Torres/Stevie caliber player.
However I remember facing a team as a 20 year old and my head was saying that they were more talented than us, and yet we were strong mentally and gifted ourselves… We won convincingly and the reason I’ve always attributed it to was the collective MIGHT of the TEAM and the guidance of an amazing coach… Sure that was 10 years ago but I do feel the ethics are sound… You can acheive so much with strength in the mind and being wholly commited to a sole purpose…
We are pretty close to that stage already, I cannot stress the collateral damage Rafa would’ve done to Arsenal over those three legs, I’m certain none envolved will forget that stanza anytime soon…
Lad’s I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again we are the best direct offensive team in the EPL, we’re just being slaughtered out wide, both offensively AND defensively and that IS what Rafa is trying to adress as we speak…
Do any of you renmember Rafa saying that he’s been telling Riise to use his right boot instead of heading his clearances for years(in regards to his OG)… Barry and Dossena represent HUGE upgrades to the LB position…
For me its just a shame rafa can’t have one more off season with 50 mill as I’d be certain he’d pretty much complete his starting team…
I look at the comming season with curiousity as to how far away we are. I’m hoping for second place with a cup win…

Should’ve said- half expecting 2nd and a cup given a decent run with no injuries

YNW Alancey, mate its not about wanting another Torres/Stevie its about NEEDING another one or two of those. Some of the lads here talk about these top notch players as if it’s a luxury that would be quite nice to have. Myself, Hyde and a few others think its an absolute necessity if we are to win the PL.

The example you give sounded as if it was a one off match and one which was not at the highest level. Indeed even at the highest level you’ll have occasions where the team with less ability will beat a team with better attacking players. Hence Cardiff v Portsmouth cup final. Man City doing the double of Man Utd in the league.
However over 38 games the cream rises to the top and has done every year in the PL since 1995. Rafa already pulled a rabbit out of the hat in 2005 with the CL win. To win the PL with our current squad he’d have to pull a rabbit out NO hat. It’s not going to happen. Its not doom and gloom its realism. Doom and gloom is saying we wont finish in the top 4. Saying we’ll be fighting for 3rd place is realistic.

Its not about star names its about star quality. That’s what we lack. That’s what we need.

Argh Hyde, I don’t mean to be argumentative with you specifically, but when I hear people make the kind of comment that you made in #98 it really does get my blood to boiling.

Its a cup game so its different. BOLLOCKS.
Its 90 minutes of football played on a field of grass with exactly the same dimentions of any league game and under the same fuckin rules!

Okay, sure… you can get through the CL qualifiers by playing for strategic draws… but after that, you win or go home. The same is true of the league though. How many times have you heard “a point away will be a good result?”

Fuck all that. Every 90 minutes should be played for all 3 points… PERIOD!

Again… I’m speaking forcefully there and that’s not directed at you Hyde, its directed at the concept. Christ, I reckon we’d have a good old argie if we wuz sat round a tablefull o’pints in a pub about this subject lads.

Coz after a good old verbal barnie, we’d move on to me taking umbridge with concept number 2.
LB, you’re right we could debate your/my comments in/around 102 for a good couple of rounds, mate!
I don’t fundamentally disagree with what you say, but in order for Stevie G to get the headlines against Olympiakos, Pongo and Mellor needed to do what they did to get the 2nd goal… and what they did to create Stevie’s winner. Likewise, Stevie’s charge against AC Milan was fascilitated by Didi’s calm steadying of the ship.
I think its interesting to note that Xabi Alonso took the penalty in that game, yet has never been the designated pen taker for us. Was this because Stevie was running in the red and too keyed up for it?

Anyway… those are specific instances… but conceptually, while I will concede that having a couple of flash players is always gonna make a difference, I have no choice but to propose to you that the grafters have just as much value.

To suggest that “Without top quality attacking players you have no chance of winning the PL!” is grossly unfair to and denying of, the contributions of the non-superstars in the team.
Again… not a criticism of your statement LB, but the concept at large.

You (in general) can suggest all you want that Torres and Stevie G. carried us into the top 4 last term… to some extent, its a valid argument… but like reading stats… saying that also totally ignores the goals that Benny, Crouch, Kuyt and unfortunately only a few others, scored last season to get us a point here and 3 points there.

You state that “WE WON’T WIN THE PL” with such a team. Granted we haven’t… but you cannot say we won’t, (unless you got crystal balls we don’t know about) only that it might be unlikely.
It will depend on Torres duplicating his Freshman form, Stevie pulling his finger out his arse, and Kuyt, Benny, Babbel, Vorronin etc. increasing their contributions to the back of the net… aligned with a return to defensive fortitude!

Remember… “no will ever win the Prem with a bunch of kids!”
Oooops… er… never mind…

Hi all,

Been away for a while, good to see most of the old timers still floating about.

I know I’m coming in late to this debate about Barry, but I’m also a little confused why we would want to sell Alonso. I know that he hasn’t played great for us, but he’s not exactly playing shite either. In his first season he could almost do no wrong, but I think it is a bit unreasonable to expect that from someone every game?

Also, Rafa extended his contract at the start of last season, so either he was being clever and knew it would take a good bit of wedge to buy Alonso while on contract, or he felt he could still do a job for us. It was probably a bit of both.

Barry is a good player, but he has never played in a top team. So he’ll either step up a level and be brill (which is what Rafa expects I assume) or else he’ll do fuck all and turn out to be a bit of a Pennant. Handy enough, but no great shakes, with the odd good game in him.

Anyway, good to be back. Looking forward to the next Blog Ger!

Aitch - for us to win the PL next season with our current squad a couple of the players other than Torres and Gerrard will have to elevate their game - in turn making them a top notch attacking player.

Of course a team needs all kinds attributes - the water carriers for want of a better term. I’m very much aware of the influence of Hamman in the CL final (bare in mind Hamann was top class and cost us £8m which was a big name signing at the time). Mellor and Pongolle yes scored important goals.

The point I’m making is this - the top drawer players make the difference at the highest level. And they usually can be relied upon to make the difference on a regular basis. How many times has Torres and Gerrard produced magic to win us a game? How many times did Mellor/Pongolle/Benayoun/Kuyt/Crouch do the same? A few times yes but not consistently.

I don’t ignore goals that Kuyt/Crouch/Benny scored to win us points - my point is they don’t do it often enough. That is what separates the great players from the good. Great players play at a high level a lot more regularly than the good player. And when the great player is at the top of his game he can carry a lot of his team mates.

Benny for example scores that goal against Wigan away and the next 2 games he’s shite. Crouch plays well against Arsenal in the league and is then useless when picked to play against the Arse in the CL semi.

How many times is Gerrard able to have a poor game and we still play well as a team and win? Not many. However Scholes can have a nightmare and the mancs still wipe the floor with the opposition. I’ve seen Rooney have poor games and the mancs still win 4-0. If Torres has a poor game we’re a bit stuck.

When Hansen said that no team will ever win the league with kids it was because we’d never ever seen a group of kids come through who were as good as that crop at Man U. It was unprecedented. They were kids but they were top notch PL players.

2 of our current attacking crop are going to have to stand up if we are to win the PL next season. This time next year we will need to be talking about them in the same esteemed way that we are currently talking about Gerrard and Torres.

I have no crystal ball but some things are I am just sure of. Like I’m sure if I put my hand in boiling hot water it will burn. I’m sure if next season we only have 2 top class attacking players we’ll see the 19th year go by with no league title.

Fair enough LB. case well stated.

I just happen to think that Benny and Kuyt will be more effective this season.
I hope that Vorronin will show his early season pre-injury form.
I was pretty confident that Babel would make a step up, but with his injury and now the Olympics drawing on him, that confidence is a bit shaken.
I am also pretty confident we’ll see more from Lucas, especially if he has a good Olympics.

So as I said, I don’t fundamentally disagree with your argument, perhaps I just have more confidence in certain players producing a bit more than you do.

Last season we started off like playing flowing football that had us all salivating and about 6 or 7 games in, it all went tits up and collectively we lost our fluidity and players seemed to fade all over the park, for a large chunk of the season.
If we start in the same vein… even with the players we currently have… and avoid that (I don’t know what the hell to call it, coz it was certainly more than the proverbial) dip in form, then I truly believe we have as much a chance as anyone.

I personally don’t think that Scum are all that good. They have some very good players, but they so infrequently play as a cohesive unit. They got by last season on some very individual flair bailing them out of jail. (which may be your point.)

I would even argue that when Chelsea won their first Prem under JM, it was because they Blitzkrieged everybody and laid siege to them week-in, week-out, not because they were such a great team… they were Bolton with a bit of flair… but that don’t make you a great team.

Maybe I havbe a different definition of what a great team is. I think Arsenal are a lot closer to it than Scum or the Chavs. We were at the beginning of last season, but then we lost it and only rediscovered it sporadically.

Sure LB, I played in a regional basketball team, four players went on to play for the national team one in the NBA, one in europe and the other two in the NBL. The game was a semi-final. Anyways, the logic was the point for me, yes the absolute top players can lift the team especially in tough periods, however so too can your so-called “glue” players… Steve kerr and John Paxson spring to mind from the Chicago Bulls- do you kno who they are? Both drained 3pointers to seal championships, their names weren’t Michael Jordan and yet with out their buzzer beaters Michael Jordan may not have been the best Basketballer of all time… Granted Basketball isn’t Football but they’re both team sports famous for upsets and with great history…
For all of the tough times Kuyt had last year, he showed how a “glue” player can acheive the same effect as the superstars during the 3 game series against Arsenal last year… Mental strength is incredibly underated…
Ronaldiniho, Kewell, (Transvestite)Ronaldo, Henry, Chevchenko, Ballack(although hes getting better), etc… All superstars at one stage that are total crap at the moment, perhaps because of injury, age, whatever… Just because you’re a superstar doesn’t mean jack if you don’t fit into a system or are not performing… Sure Liverpool could really use someone special out wide, but we had one in the form a Kewell, and we all know who much of a twat he is/was/going to be… We need people that will fit into the system and contribute without out the ego…
To me Contribution from every department, whether on the feild or off this year should be the Red’s mantra. Pat Riley and Phil Jackson from the Knicks/Heat and Bulls/Lakers are famous for it as it helps galvanise their players and Contribution for me sums up the Reds at the moment….
More from EVERYONE, NO excuses, NO need to be negative…

Oh, I broke my ankle playing Rugby league, losing my scholarsip in Arizona, bugger as I wish i had it easy like these pro sportsmen!!Haha, who knew there was that much money to be had in sports 10years ago, apart from football and American sports-in america… Hell the All Blacks were amateurs when I was growing up- now they’re all multi-millionaires…

Aussie, I agree with your comments (84) on Robbie Keane being better than Crouch. I would love Keane to come. Of course, David Villa, now linked to us, would even be better. Is something going on that we do not know? Perhaps we may get some funds, otherwise, why should Rafa mention Villa’s name?

I like your comment on Rafas’s method of slowly improving each position one step at the time, especially given our lack of funds.

This situation on small improvements each time is important in chess. In a chess game, both sides start equally. Each player tries to accumulate small advantages.The one who can accumulate more and more small advantages will eventually turn into a big, then overwhelming advantage and win the game. I remember reading that Rafa is a chess player and he may have used this strategy to improve the team.

The on-going Alonso-Barry debate on who is better will continue. For me it is clear Alonso had been good for us. However, he had declined somewhat since 2005/6, Euro 2008 notwithstanding. I still feel Barry (maybe now settled at Stg18 million) will be better for us:

1. in defence, he can tackle and is resolute
2. flexibility in switching as FB and HM roles,
3. free kick/corner kick situations
4. in initiating an attack with his passes
5. a good captain material, role maodel and leader
6. English (with an eye on the new local player ruling)
7. can link up well with SG
8. Most importantly scoring goals (8-10, in my estimate)and providing assists.

Aitch, lancey, as FS rightly put it, it’s about balance, of course.

Just as we can’t win the league with 11 Carraghers, so we won’t with 11 Kaka’s (although 11 SGs may be good!). There are always unsung heros, but each player has his role to play.

What LB and I are trying to say is that our squad does not have “enough numbers of” match-makers. We are not saying that we do not need Carra and the like in our squad. For instance, Torres and SG shone last year precisely because we had Kuyt who was willing to sacrifice himself to set the ball on the plate for them (and I don’t mean as assists but as in physical sacrifce).

What we are stressing is that in comparison to the mancs and chelski, we are totally lacking in the number of players that can finish off a brilliant performance set up by these so-called efficient players.

Imagine this….
Carra defends brilliantly and passes it to Masch who, with a quick mind, tries to spray the ball to kuyt out wide. However the ball is a bit too far and falls to the defender….only for good old kuyty to hastle him and grab the ball back. Great plays by each individual doing what they do best, and because of that, the opposing defense is caught well out of preparation and it is a scoring opportunity with the recipient of the ball being able to go one-on-one with the last defender.
Now imagine that in this situation the ball from Kuyt is squared to our lone striker or supporting offensive midfielder, but neither Torres nor Gerrard is available for that match. So it’s Crouchy and Voronin…..50% of the time, they may score, but 50% of the time they will probably not. But that percentage is just not good enough. We have to be ruthless and decisive enough to seize this kind of opportunity or the efforts made by the other water-carriers will be lost. At least the situation will look much more promising if it was either Gerrard or Torres that the ball fell to.

We are talking about the percentage of scoring opportunities being converted like in the case above, or someone doing that little bit of magical dribbling to get past 3 or 4 players and breaking a stubborn wall for us to win 1-0.

Effecient but un-creative players cannot do that. We do not have enough numbers of magical players (I should call them “magical” because players like masch and carra are stars in their own right and probably confuses the argument)in the squad.

They do not have to all be playing at the same time, but we need to be certain that we can sub or rest SG and Torres to replace them with players just as decisive amd with attacking quality as them. Sure, if we want to wrap up a game we can bring on someone like Kuyt instead of magical players to just defend for the remaining minutes.

We just do not have the options– when we want to score and win a game, we know that we will always have to use SG and Torres, period. There is just no other way.

It is about the balance of the squad, and our balance is leaning too much in the scope of efficient players, which is why we have not been able to win the league. Arsenal have not been able to win recently because they, on the other hand, are on the other side of the spectrum and have too little efficient and hard working players. Manure and Chelski have a good balance in their squad which is why they come out on tops at the end of the season regardless of their hiccups in-between.

I am screaming for a star quality because i want my team balanced out.

And Aitch, I think it is because you emphasise the importance of hard-work and committment that you regard a cup tournament and league as being the same. I won’t disagree; a professional team must always play to win every single game– they are getting paid to do it– and so in that sense, both types of games are basicially the same, i.e., it is a football game with the same rules.
But I also think it is essentially different because in a Cup tournament, there is no such thing as a draw, whether that is accomplished tactically or not. That’s the stark reality. But, we are discussing this from a completely different perspective, so I don’t think we can ever agree on the subject, so let’s leave it at that. I am completely fine with your analysis looking at it from your perspective.

Well made points there Hyde… Yes I will conceed to your point about balance… I would love nothing more than for us to have a Deco type player once Barry is signed up… I’m hoping that all the raves about Lucas by our coaching staff come true and another gem in our squad flourishes into that player we’re all looking for, in that sense Barry’s age becomes an asset as Lucas should relish the next few years as perhaps an understudy to first Alonso and secondly to barry- whilst constantly seeing and playing with SG and Mash…
But like I said I will conceed that we certainly could use a player or two capable of doing the extraordinary on a regular basis to balance our team…
Perhaps why Rafa’s starting to make a few noises for the first time in quite a few weeks? Talking about David Villa in the press these days was a little surprising to me, even though we know he likes his spanish players…

As I said, Hyde, I don’t think we’re miles apart on this issue.
IN the CL, because you have the home and away legs, a tactical draw is an option… its just an option I happen to hate, as I think it breeds complacency.
Likewise, the idea that we’ll “settle for a draw” at Stamford Bridge and Old Trafford really sticks in my craw!
I do in fact have a problem in general with the idea that a game at home is fundamentally different form a game away. For sure the KOP is the 12th man in a way that the travelling KOP could not be… but then I give you countless wins at Wembly, Mellenium and in Turkey in particular as examples that turn that ideaon its head. We should never approach a game away as though it is somehow harder or fundamentally different than a game at home… its defeatist and becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy for results.

I get the balance thing. I agree with it wholeheartedly. Having another flair player would be great… but it has to be the right player… one that fits in well with the way Stevie and Torres play… because by the same token star names can unbalance a team as well.

If we get David Villa, I think it would be a real coup. I’m not sure how we play Torres and him together… since I think that was a problem for Spain… albeit perhaps a nice one to have.
I for one, personally wish we hadn’t had to lose Luis Garcia in order to get Torres. As frustrating as he was at times, Torres could feed off his little flicks in a way that the forwards Luis played with for us, never could. But alas, that door has slammed shut. It is a player of that type that I think we need.

I see where our difference lie now Aitch. I also am conceptually against a tactical approach to draw a game. My intention of specifying the essential difference between the Cup and League is from a slightly different light.
What I am worried about is when we end up drawing unintentionally in the League, rather than the complacency issue in the CL. To put it more logically, the League is of such nature that it prevents our team from playing as well as we do in the CL.
There are games that just have to be won, but all too often, we lacked the final quality to turn a destined draw into a last-gasp win in the League. Why? Because we just do not have the quality to keep on getting 3 points “IN 90 MINUTES.” In a cup game, even if we do not finish things off in 90 minutes, we have extra time and then penalities. It is either a win or loss result, and therefore, we do not necessarily have to have the ability or quality to win within the standard 90 minutes. That is why we have been able to compete in the CL. On the other hand, magical players are there to let us win within 90 minutes in league games, which we sadly do not have at the moment. This is where the issue of needing more quality players come up.

And Aitch, you are totally right about Luis. Many critics said that Rafa had been given good financial backing, and that the capture of Torres is a good illustration of that. However, the fact that we had to exhange luis, who was one of our best offensive players, to capture Torres is a blatant reminder of how meager our budget is. Torres was Rafa’s number 1 priority, and yet, the club were unable to prepare enough for a cash-only deal. If we do get Villa, my hope is that SG, Torres and Villa will be rotated since Villa can play in both of these positions. I have always wanted someone on the bench with just the same qualities as SG and Torres. If we have to really have a go at a team, we could use all of them at the same time with either SG or Villa switching to the flanks. Then there is also the possiblity of playing with 2 strikers, but I doubt that would be the norm even if we did capture Villa.

lancey, I am now thinking that Rafa mentioned Villa because he wanted to steer the focus away from his real targets, whether that is keane remains to be seen. I doubt that we will ever place an offer for him.

Agreed Hyde… but I’d also factor in the “bright lights, big city” factor.

What I mean by that, is that the CL is now where all these guys wanna be playing. Barry is coming to us because he wants to play in the CL, not because he wants a Prem medal. Granted he wants that too and he has a better chance of it with us than Aston Villa, but what he really wants is the CL.

Players just turn it on more when they know the world is watching them play in the CL… even if its against Zenit… as opposed to a rainy Wednesday night game against Bolton, or Mirrlesborough.

This is where the mentality thing comes in. If players showed as much hunger in the piss-poor cannon-fodder games as they did in the CL matches, I reckon we’d be challenging every year. But the CL just means more… particularly to foreign players… than the Prem does.
In the league, Chelsea and Scum don’t tend to let their heads drop as much as we do when they go 1-0 down. We seem to have an “oh here we go” damage limitation mentality.

Disagree completely with your last comment hyde. I don’t think our team lets their heads drop. Think to the quarter and semi finals with the arse and the chavs. wasn’t bottle or mentality that let us down it was quality in the end. same against the mancs last season we didn’t bottle it at home we had most of the play it was a lack of quality, they concentrated on stevie g and torres and who else was their to pop in a goal? If we keep mr spud u like quiet and rollando then what happened? up popped tevez. At their place we were soundly beaten we didn’t botle it or let our heads drop we lacked quality. I agree we need balance but we do need a bit more quality. deco for example is quality, class but he works his socks off and as much as i hate the little faggot ronaldo runs for the whole ninety minutes.

INteresting - http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2008/07/10/rafa-benitez-winning-premier-league-title-is-our-priority-64375-21315668/

Animal Col it’s great to see you back, where the hell have you been. Well a comment once again, still no Barry but still hope on the Alonso front. He was seriously injured which come on top of last seasons, broken ankle or leg, whatever. Lets not forget lads the guy came back in a CL semi in Italy from a serious injury, when SG was out. He begged Rafa to give him a run and low and behold the rest is history.
.
He may have had a downish sort of season but he is still a wonderful player, and I personally hope he continues that way. I’m still in the save the money and spend it elsewhere camp.
.
I also still believe we need a flair player or two but like all flair players they can be frustrating. Who gives a. Lets get some in.
.
Lastly why sell someone just to fund something similar, what if Barry finds being a medium size fish in a fucking huge bowl is just to much, Alonso is already swimming around the bowl.

Rafa was shocked at Villa’s price of Stg32 million and is now gunning for winger Silva instead at half the price.

More suspense. Now Alonso’s deal may not be on as Juve stalls on the Stg 15 mill valuation, opting instead for Seville’s Cristian Poulsen (Stg8 mill).

eh? Kenny?? Where did i mention that our heads dropped?? I think I rather had been stating that it was lack of quality players that led to our downfall.

The heads dropping was me, in my comment immediately following yours Hyde.

Again to some extent, I agree it was a player with a bit of flair, or at least extra bottle, that got them the goal… my point is, that the minute we go 1-0 down to Scum, the players and the crowd have a tendency to go into their “aw shit, here we go again” head and we don’t come back from it.

I think we’ve outplayed Chelsea and Scum in the vast majority of our meetings with them over tha past 3 seasons… but we approach them with a surgeons scalpel, trying to cut an opening, whereas their approach to us, is more like a fuckin Blunderbuss!

And gaz, I completely agree with you I’m not sure I really see the merit in replacing Alonso with Barry. It seems like 6 of one and half dozen of the other to me. My preference would be to keep Alonso and get a winger.

I also think we’d be better off with Bentley rather than Keane.

On a different note lads. I remember reading an article where the journo was really slagging off Ronaldo for having the audacity to want to leave the mighty Manchester United. It was the usual “How could he possibly want to leave” business. Anyway the bit that made me laugh was “the fans even made a song spacifically for him”. Hahaha….. Wow a song for a player - how unique.

This Ronaldo saga has really taken the gloss of their double win. Nice one.

well it seems rafa has ruled us out of going for villa, which for me, is a good idea. buying him would basically make us change our formation, which i dont think is necessary. torres needs space to make runs and make his markers chase him. with a second out and out striker, he doesnt get that, as you saw with spain, and he often gets put out of games. (this is what rafa was talking about when he took torres off against birmingham city or wigan last year, cant remember). the only thing is, if he gets ONE chance, he will score. still, i think not splurging on villa is a good idea. in the same interview rafa has stated that they are considering robbie keane.

robbie keane would be a great signing for us. he has a great game mentality, bags of experience, a nice set of goals per year, a great work rate, and a life long reds supporter that would give his all for the cause. moreover, he is prem proven. i am not sure why people arent supportive of us going for him. he can sit behind torres, to the side, or play in a 4-4-2 were we in need of switching due to injuries or tactics. that would leave us with robbie keane, torres, gerrard, babel, voronin as possible strikers. that’s a nice choice. perhaps:

torres
keane gerrard
babel masch pennant/new buy?
dossena skrtel agger degen/arbeloa
reina

looks great to me!

YNWA

alec, I should think that line-up highly unlikely. It has both Bael and Pennant playing far too deep and neither are defensive players.

more likely, with those players, would be
Torres
Bable, SG, Keane
Barry/Alonso, Masch
Dossena/Carra, Ninja, Dagger, Degen/Abeloa
Reina

Rafa likes his 4-2-3-1

I would also suspect that since Deggen and Dossena are more wing-backs than fullbacks, that we’d likely see a 3-5-2-1, or 3-5-1-2 type of line-up, since Rafa has experimented with that a few times and we’ve now seemingly got the personnel to do it with a bakc 3 of Carra, Skrtel and Agger.

But who knows… only Rafa and he’s not telling.

Dossena stated Rafa prefers a 4-man defensive line…
http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N160482080710-1214.htm

What a shame we couldn’t keep Alonso and get Barry at the same time… Although playing time would be near impossible to manage It would represent a pretty awesome stable of midfeilders for Rafa to choose from…

Must agree I wasn’t excited about losing Garcia… As much as he squandered he created and at times… Nothing stopping Rafa from trying to get him back if he thought he would be usefull…

Well Gerry if the Barry deal was a dead duck on the 5th it’s certainly dragging out now considering here it’s the 12th, another seven days.
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This is starting to look like the Hienze deal all over again. He’s way overpriced lets look at it logically, it’s almost become a transfer of pride rather than sense. If Sidwell can go from Chelsea for 5, how the fuck does Barry become 18. Barry is not that much better than Sidwell, in fact Sidwell’s the one who scores the better looking goals. Barry’s goals are knock ins or penalties. Sidwell hits then from SG range.
.
Are we trying to get AV in the four or keep ourselves in there.

I think Gerry hit the nail on the head though Gaz… we’ll probably get him for 15/16 plus Finnan.
At that its a tad steep but at least Rafa gets his man… and in return MoN does NOT get his… coz what he wanted was Carson and he’s sure as shit not gonna pay us 6 let alone 10 after the Barry thing.

I just wonder if Rafa was actually trying to nick Barry for something like 8 mill plus Carson, knowing that AV wanted him and his 10 mill valuation caused it all to go tits up??

Also, gaz.. I doubt anyone in here would argue that in a stand-alone deal Gareth Barry is worth 15 million. Would any of you?

Unlike Sidwell though, who lets face it, doesn’t exactly stand out among the Chav Galacticos, Barry is the AV Captain and one of their lynchpins. He’s also recently figured well for England… so that does rate him higher than 5 mill, just by the nature of the way these sorts of valuations and negotiations work.
Having said that, 18 mill is a bit stiff, but Rafa appears to want him and it looks like he’ll have to player plus cash to that amount ot get him, or not bother.

The interesting question will be… Does Rafa back off if the Juve deal for Alonso really does collapse?

18 bloody million. If we add a couple more to that we can actually buy Arshavin for god’s sake. The thing is, I do not forsee us walking out now. MON has definitely got the better deal out of this nonsense. Barry sure better be worth all the fuss.

Also when did one of the most reliable right fulbacks in the league, not to mention a valued member of a consistant top 4 team become worth around 1 million pounds at best. FFS are we giving our lads away. AV are paying 2 million for a fulback from Ipswich (I think) so how does Finnan become so cheap. At this rate it will be Finnan, Voronin, Pennant, Aurelio and 16 million to get Barry. There having a fucking laugh.
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Remember lads is Finnan goes we only really have Degan who we don’t know anything about, Arbeloa who doesn’t set the world on fire and JC if Rafa chooses to play him there. Yeah we could be blessed but we could also be up shit creek. 1 or 2 injuries and it’s back to square 1. I like Finnan by the way. It seems like everyone I like there getting rid off. Not going to mention what I think of SG or Nando.

The money being thrown around is just becoming ludicrous and totally agree with you gaz about Finnan valued at 1 mil????????

Almost feels like LFC are almost begging GB who is good but personally wouldn’t swap for Xavi just yet, not at that price anyway!

It shows as well that to get his deals moving Rafa’s using the press to barter his deals and don’t think until they get rid of Laurel & Hardy he’s going to get any help in the money, department, just hope he doesn’t get pissed off with it before he finish’s the team he truly wants!

On another note, (And apologies for bringing any subject about this guy on this blog) but cannot believe an overpaid, arrogant wanker of a footballer has the nerve to agree with comments he feels like a slave! Can someone either shoot him or send him on a one way ticket off this planet! Thats goes for Sepp Blatters as well who should of retired years ago! How do twats like these hold on to there jobs!

YNWA

Well, Aston Villa signing Sidwell basically seels the deal for Barry with us. as someone said, we should -play hardball with Villa now. 14 million and Finnan or fuck off. see how the whinging bastard likes that!

Knight, is that right Mate? Valencia want 32 million for Villa?? Well, im not suprised Rafa lost interest in the one quick smart n=then. As I’ve said before, i reallydont think David Villa would make a good premiership player. lacks heart. And at 32 million, we coulnt get him even if we wanted him. Good comments on Barry though mate. i tend to mostly agree. i think my major problem with us getting Gareth Barry is that we have to lose Alonso. Alonso is my favourite player and i love the way he conducts himself on and off the pitch. im gutted to see him go. But, if its for the greater good of the team, then so be it.

I actually didnt use to mind Aston Villa too much…now i f*cking hate them.

I know he is injured, but anyone fancy a cheeky bid for Kenwyn Jones?????…..

Gaz, i think Finnan had 2 maybe 3 good years at liverpool. When he was at fullham he was one of the best fullbakcs in the league, then he came to liverpool and he was fucking brutal. i remember saying to a mate that i thought he was the worst player to pull on a liverpool jersey…ever. Then in Rafas 2nd or so year, i think finnan came into himself and rediscovered his fulham form and became class and a vital cog in our team. Unfortunbately for us it was abit late in his career and now his legs have gone on him and he isnt half the player he was a couple of years ago. Having said that though, i think he’s better than Riise and we somehow managed to get 5 million for Riise, so one would think that Finnan should be worth more then 2 million. And one million valuation for four eyed, devon headed prick Oniel is beyond a joke….fuck i hate Aston Villa!

Hey aussie_kopfan,

You said it man. To value Steve Finnan at 1 mil is a fucking joke. I think Rafa should forget about Barry for the time being, offer instead 15 mil plus Finnan to Valencia for David Silva. Leave O’neil with an unhappy Barry, probably destroy Aston Villa’s team morale and whatever fuck chance they have in Europe. Then offer 5 mil come January or next season. And yes keep Alonso.

I do also think that O’neil didn’t check that Rafa was offering Pounds Sterling, and not Rupiahs. If Barry is worth Stg 18 mil, then in that case Alonso should be worth at least Stg 22 mil.

sorry hyde I meant Aitch

some of these footballers are an a absolute joke.
Ronaldo saying it’s like slavery, well, he’s the highest paid slave I know, £120,000 per week.

Harry Kewell - A disgrace going to galatasary. Did you hear his comments when interviewed? I’ve got to think about me, it was very sad but we can’t live in the past etc blah blah. Someone died!! They went to a football match and didn’t come home. Talk about glib couldn’t care less comments.

Walk away from the Barry deal now! Martin O’neil is a clown. Sidwell in my opinion is not a patch on Barry and with a midfield of Reo-Coker and Sidwell I’m hardly filling my pants at the thought of Villa’s challenge to 4th spot next season and with the defence Spurs have i’m not worried about them either. Arse seem to be imploding and if the mancs have to get rid of ronaldo then that can only help. I know they will get about a zillion quid for him but if he’s the best player in the world it doesn’t matter because they won’t be able to go like for like. So if we can strengthen even a little bit then by default the we might be able to win or go close to the title.

I’ve just re-read my comments sounds like a speech the great late Bill Shankly would be proud of. “Bobby Moore he’s been in those night clubs again son, he looks a wreck, big bags under his eyes you’ll murder him” On Lou McCari “I only wanted him for my reserve team”.

don’t forget the alan ball one, Kenny!

Lads, Finnan is in the final year of his contract and is 32 years old. We value him at £2m Villa value him at £1m. So that’ll be £1.5m then eh? Maybe they’ll offer Villa a take it or leave it £15.5m + Finnan.

We can say forget Barry - walk away etc but its pretty obvious that Rafa really wants Barry. A lot of times we’ve walked away from a transfer when the price is too steep. On this occasion Rafa is not going anywhere. That suggests Barry is a BIG part of Rafa’s plans next season. So we’re gonna have to trust his judgement no matter how much we end up paying.

There is an article in the Daily Post where Rafa says he’ll use 2 or 3 systems next season. And we don’t necessarily need out and out wingers because we now have 2 attacking fullbacks. Its about finding the right players to go into the systems. Here’s the link: http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2008/07/11/rafa-benitez-looking-to-the-wings-for-answer-to-title-prayers-64375-21324777/

Regarding the Alonso/Barry debate - I really feel the fans who want Alonso to stay are looking at it mostly from a sentimental point of view. Rafa sure isn’t. Which is why he’ll be sold.

Here’s another good article: http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0500liverpoolfc/0100news/tm_headline=rafa-benitez-asks-liverpool-fans-to-trust-him%26method=full%26objectid=21324502%26siteid=50061-name_page.html

Lads, Finnan is in the final year of his contract and is 32 years old. We value him at £2m Villa value him at £1m. So that’ll be £1.5m then eh? Maybe they’ll offer Villa a take it or leave it £15.5m + Finnan.

We can say forget Barry - walk away etc but its pretty obvious that Rafa really wants Barry. A lot of times we’ve walked away from a transfer when the price is too steep. On this occasion Rafa is not going anywhere. That suggests Barry is a BIG part of Rafa’s plans next season. So we’re gonna have to trust his judgement no matter how much we end up paying.

There is an article in the Daily Post where Rafa says he’ll use 2 or 3 systems next season. And we don’t necessarily need out and out wingers because we now have 2 attacking fullbacks. Its about finding the right players to go into the systems. Here’s the link: http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2008/07/11/rafa-benitez-looking-to-the-wings-for-answer-to-title-prayers-64375-21324777/

Regarding the Alonso/Barry debate - I really feel the fans who want Alonso to stay are looking at it mostly from a sentimental point of view. Rafa sure isn’t. Which is why he’ll be sold.

Here’s another good article: http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0500liverpoolfc/0100news/tm_headline=rafa-benitez-asks-liverpool-fans-to-trust-him%26method=full%26objectid=21324502%26siteid=50061-name_page.html

Hello lad,s
have’nt been on here for quite some time, had to have the pc reformatted and everything went to fuck, forgot my password,and Aussie KF all my Leo Sayer albums went out the window, fuckin gutted.
On the Gareth Barry saga i think Rafa should walk away as Alonso is not a bad option and let that ignorant cunt MON try and appease the monster HE has created for Villa,
as for Arshavin fuck him who heard of him before the Euro’s and then he only put one decent game in
anyone remember the fab world cup Phil Babb and Jason Macateer had???????.

theredman - i agree entirely. arshavin did look good but he’s 27 where was he before? Never buy on the back of an international tournament - Phil Babb? 1st touch a pass 2nd touch a tackle. El hadj Diouff anyone? Salif Diao?

LB I agree about Rafa wanting Barry. I’m glad he’s not sentimental this where Houllier went wrong. I had a lot of time for GED but he stood by players he bought who were not producing the goods.

Yup, I think we should walk from Barry… Maybe put a 8mill bid in next year, maybe…
Hell, Lampard is only 8mill, Hahahahaha!!!!!
As for Alonso, I still think we should sell him, if we can… I’d be very surprised if he could fit into our systems in the oncomming season…

Robbie Keane should round out our striking departmentment should we miraculously find a spare 20mill…

Harmless article!

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11096_3761154,00.html

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2008/07/11/scott-carson-heads-for-liverpool-exit-100252-21325245/

With Guthrie and Carson sold that will add £8m to the kitty? Plus Crouch - £9m-£11m and the kitty stands at £17m-£19m…….. That’s going on our new Peter Beardsley I reckon.

As for Arshavin. He was fantastic last season for Zenit and also Russia. This was confirmed in the Euros. He’s 27 yes but apparently he has grown up so to speak and has come of age in the last couple of years. Zidane didn’t hit any great heights until he was around 26. Same with Rivaldo. The comparions with Diouf, Daio and Phil Babb are absurd.

I see your drift London, but remember Babb and Macateer had fantastic world cups not just a couple of games so i dont think it’s absurd buddy
does’nt matter if your a goalie, defender or striker skill permanent and all that, mind you we soon bought those two down to earth, dont know about you my friend but it seemed to me that in the Houlier era, everything and every player we touched just went fuckin pear-shaped for some reason.
Like i say good to be back and i’ll spend the next couple of days in the archives catching up,
by the way is Fatty still posting.

if barry cost less than 15m i can said it worth buying but 18m? holy no if we had this $$ buy keane we had alonso why need keane? some people said that alonso is useless as he dont score too many goal but please he the type of player who distribute the ball around freely. but barry style is more straighforward and this suit EPL more so i think that why benitez buy it. but i fine it benitez do want to buy him i believe in him.
Benitez, you will never walk alone whatever you do we will support you.
YNWA