Liverpudlian

FSG = Future Success Guaranteed?

Liverpudlian comments on the appointment of Brendan Rodgers and the owners’ long term strategy for Liverpool FC.

In my last piece, Managing expectations and change at Anfield I discussed the negativity regarding the process in appointing our new manager and in particular my dismay at the amount of friendly fire that the club were receiving from those allegedly with the best interests of the club at heart. Now that an appointment has been made I hope those same people will now stand behind the new man and let him get on with the job, but for those who still feel the need to register their discontent at the choice made, I ask you, why are you doing this?

In an ideal world, only two candidates really stood out, but one wanted a sabbatical after the pressures of managing the best team in the world and the other was wallowing in the glory of replacing that team as Spanish champions. Let’s be honest, neither was realistically going to change their short term plans to suit us anyway, so let’s get real here.

Rafael Benitez’s name was mooted in many quarters but there were as many doubters as there were supporters and what is not in dispute is his antipathy towards his employers at times of duress. Yes, during his reign our credentials, in terms of our status in Europe, were exemplary but it looks now as if his inclusion as a possible candidate was never really up for discussion anyway.

They say never go back though and like Kenny, obviously that would have applied to Rafa too, but any ongoing bitterness regarding the treatment of Kenny has to be put to one side now and not be allowed to deflect in what is best to take the club forward. The decision was made because, cup runs aside, whichever way you look at it, our campaign last year was a disaster on and off the park. Now I love Kenny to bits and I was one who actually saw him replace the irreplaceable, i.e Kevin Keegan and then go on to become the greatest in our player in our history. Add to that his managerial success, but even more, his role after Heysel and Hillsborough, and that ensures Kenny will always have a special place at Anfield. That is not in dispute here and never will be, but this is business now and I am afraid sentiment normally plays no part in success.

Consequently then, the intention to look for a young, hungry manager to build a legacy at the club over time was clearly laid out at the outset by the owners. We are being told they had involved some of the most knowledgeable names in the football world to help formulate an infrastructure within the club to take us forward and that the manager would be the figurehead of a continental type set up with layers of management that is obviously somewhat alien to the English game. Some suggestions indicated that the Barcelona “model “ is the framework they are trying to replicate and if that is the case, then that will do for me.

We now know that there were a number of people interviewed but two names dominated the speculation in Roberto Martinez & Brendan Rodgers and the latter former Swansea manager has come up on the rails, literally, to defy the odds and get the job when Martinez seemed primed for the role despite the irritating, ongoing commentary from his chairmen. The young Spaniard, we are being told, declined the opportunity to work here because of the potential imposition of a director of football and it is perhaps significant that the position will not now be filled anyway.

The clamour for information during the last week was understandable if perhaps unhelpful in the eyes of the clubs decision makers. They were trying to conduct their affairs in a quiet dignified manner ( aka the Liverpool way ?) mindful that any official statements may be open to potential misreporting at a sensitive period of negotiations. Subsequently then, despite choosing his words carefully, that single interview by Ian Ayre was universally misinterpreted to suit the various agendas of mischief and headline making.

Meanwhile and significantly, an American reporter highlighted on the radio that the vacancy for the Boston Red Sox job took two months to finalise. In admitting that this sort of time scale was obviously inappropriate over here due to differing pressures, the fact that the short list had been narrowed down so quickly was, in his eyes still impressive. As a Ryder, he also confirmed that FSG have very deep pockets of something in the order of 1.6 to 1.9 billion pounds and not afraid to invest in their ventures.

Subsequently then, with the compensation package agreed with Swansea, their manager and his backroom team have now come to Anfield and FSG have indeed got their number one target. Having spoken eloquently and confidently, yet so humbly at yesterday’s press conference, you would like to think anyone with doubts regarding his suitability for the role will at the very least now give the lad a chance. Even at his introduction, Brendan was asked if he felt he had to “win over the fans” as part of getting on with his job and he responded admirably. Let us hope that this is now only a very insignificant minority of us because if not, then it is a sad reflection of the calibre of our supporter nowadays as opposed to a time when we were recognised as the most knowledgeable in the land.

A pessimistic attitude and constant carping from within, at a time like this, only helps our opponents while compromising our own progress. As fans we have to be careful we do not become part of the problem. Just let the owners continue to get on with their job and not let any festering, lingering resentment from the Hicks and Gillet regime taint our reaction and judgement to every eventuality and we may yet find that formula for success that we all crave.

Our new manager said at the press conference something about aligning the team up to the fans whom he declared were amongst the best in the world. Some of us need to start proving that again.

Intriguing times indeed to be a red.

Liverpudlian

"I've supported the lads all my life, started in the boys pen in the days when we outsang the Kop. Graduated over the fence and stood right in the middle of the kop for the halcyon days under Bill and Bob. I was one of the nutters who used to cascade down to the front when we attacked the Kop goal. Veteran of the infamous "Ajax" and "Inter Milan" games in the 1960s, Rome 1977 and Paris 1981. Graduated, like most owl arses to the Lower Centenary. Seen the lads win everything and my last ambition is to see them win the title again now the miracle of Istanbul provided the other half of that dream."
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  • yw

    Back the new boss ! he deserves our respect and support! Together everyone plays a part in making our club great again :)

  • RedTed

    A great, well put article – this needed saying! Now perhaps some of you haters that frequent the comments section will read and take heed? I too welcomed KD to replace KK and the man is my sporting hero. I agree with all the things said re on field and off field attributes. I have been in his company and he is just a top human being and deserves better treatment than he has received lately – I did not want him sacked! However, onward and upward – true fans must unite, back Uncle Buck to the hilt, take the roof off Anfield with our singing and lets all help this club get back on its perch. YNWA

  • PatrickTheRed

    Hiring Rodgers seems like a masterstroke. FSG are no dummies.

  • Nige

    I must be honest. When kk was released I was one of the bring back rafa ones, but as the days passed and I really thought about it and considered what Brendan Rodgers has achieved at Swansea, I have come around to it. His efforts and the players of Swansea to get to 11th is immense. His philosophy on football is how the game should be played. Pass move, attack and stifle your opposition with possession. I got an optimistic feeling about this. May take time and I for one am willing to be patient because the end results could be very successful on the pitch. I do hope though, now he is at a bigger club, that Brendan will try to get better players. Set his sights a little higher. If he can get Sinclair, dyer etc to consistently perform the way they have, the future bodes well for our players cos they are, on paper better in the first place. So man management, confidence and support must be a skill he has to eek these levels of performance from players. Anyhow- I’m supporting him. I am really excited about his plans for the way we will play etc. he is eloquent also and honest. Good luck Brendan and the team! I hope he is given time cos lfc shouldn’t be chopping and changing so much- which would explain the overhaul in structure. A lot of consideration gone into our future…..

    • ken08

      Good piece Nige,i wanted Rafa too but having heard BR i too am very impressed,i bet this has been a really difficult time for FSG also and we musnt
      forget this.Onward and upward now just as we have been craving since the glory Rafa days in Europe and i cant wait,a BIG thank you to FSG for being able to see the wood for the trees and giving us all renewed hope for the future of LFC. YNWA

  • munyuktae

    I love kenny and still gutted by the fact he is no longer managing the team, he is still the club saviour and maybe the link between kenny and BR is like shankly and paisley, kenny pave the way and BR will drive the club forward.
    Dont lose your hope and support him to the fullest, he’s a diferent case from that face rubbing monkey hodgson.

  • deaththekid

    Still a little skeptical. I thought FSG strategy was to appoint a young manager who plays attacking football and make him work with an experienced director of football for scouting players. So it made sense that even roberto martinez and brendan rodgers were being considered despite having a less than impressive CV, since their job woud have been to only manage the players and make them play attacking football while the scouting and transfers of players would have been conducted by a more experience person like van gaal. Apparently BR has forced the owners to give him full control of the team.Lets wait and see what kind of players he brings to the club then we can start judging him. Thank god he cant sign players from swansea…

  • http://twitter.com/flstc1981 Christopher Walton

    I think FSG is creating a framework for the future. Appointing Rodgers is another step in the right direction. Kenny will be missed, but he will always be with the club. Reading the transcripts from the press conference today it is clear that Rodgers is a class act. As supporters we need to get back behind our team. I’ve heard so much negativity recently, and I’m just tired of it. There are “fans” all over the internet crying for half of the team to be sacked and for FSG to sell the team to “more competent owners” just because we are sitting further down on the table. We may not be where we want to be, but we’re a lot better off than we were just a couple of seasons ago from a club perspective. Shankly said it best, “If you can’t support us when we draw or lose, don’t support us when we win.”
    Fans: Individuals who’s feelings toward their club wax and wane based on performance. (a.k.a. Mancs)
    Supporters: Individuals who support their club through the good and the bad.

  • Terry

    Brendan Rodgers is admission that we are a small club. Under Rafa we were the best team in Europe, now we are resorting to hiring managers Mourihno endorses, we should be hiring Mourihno himself, or for that matter a manager who took him on , and over 3 years built a stronger squad with significantly less funds – Rafa

    Rafa is the only big club manager in the world that would coach Liverpool and we turned him down, why? Because we are worried he’d gain to much support and be hard to sack? Since when do you appoint someone on how easy they would be to sack? Thats defeat before you started.
    Who will want to manage us in 2013 when we are 11th and Suarez , reina and Lucas hand in their tranfer requests (dont be suprised if that happens before Rodgers manages one game)…. Who will want to play for Liverpool then, only mid table quality.

    We sacked Rafa for hodgson (not fsg’s fault) and now KD for Brendan Rogers. 2 giant steps backwards from being the number 1 team in Eurpe (ranked 2009) to the mid level Premier League team which we will be in 2013. Attacking football my ass, lets be nuumber 1 again!

    This is why those that are complaining are complaining, our love for the club isnt blind.

    • Jay Wright

      Dalglish was clearly leading the club to be number one last year? Really??
      And who were the established world class players that we were signing under Benitez?? Even Torres & Alonso weren’t widely accepted as “world class” before we got them!

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/David-Howard-Shaw/100003624505526 David Howard Shaw

        Jay Dalglish took a 5th from the bottom club whose league and domestic cup performances were dismal Really!! In 16 months LFC had two exceptional domeatic cup runs winning the Carling Cup and beaten finalists in the FA Cup, earning a Europa League place, and finished 8th. A massive improvment on RH and 8 places above 5th from the bottom where Dalglish inherited the team. Really!!
        In the responses to L-Pudlian article and in the post you repond to (Terry) no one states “Dalglish was clearly leading the club to be number one last year.” This statement is inserted by yourself to introduce a ridiculous element into the discussion that you attribute to those whose position is contra to your own and who never made such a claim so you can then make light of the position of those opposed to your position. But what can be said is Dalglish took LFC from 5th from the bottom to 8th in the league with 2 exceptional domestic cup runs (winning the Carling Cup and finalists in the FA Cup), and earning a Europa League place for 2012-2013 which was a massive improvement in 2012. Really!! Terry does not make any claims about Benetiz’s signings. However, He did say RB over 3 years built a strong squad and competed with Mourinho with less funds. This assessment is historically accurate. Really!!

        • Jay Wright

          Hodgson was sacked for mismanaging the club down into a position that everybody obviously thought was well below the expected standards. Dalglish improved the club’s fortunes as a caretaker, then was given the job full time and the opportunity to kick on but instead took the club backwards. Really.

          Irt the post I responded to, the guy implies that hiring Rodgers is moving us further away from being number 1 and establishing us a midtable club. He also says that only mid table players will join with Rodgers in charge. Obviously this must be in contradiction to what happened under his predecessors. Otherwise there is no complaint, no?

          • macho

            can someone please break it down for me, what did BR achieve at Swansea?

          • Jay Wright

            @Macho: What did Rodgers achieve at Swansea? He smashed his targets in leading a team of lower league talent to not only avoid relegation, but to also impose their positive style of play on the opposition all season while achieving a mid-table finish.

            @David Howard Shaw: last season’s league finish was 6th. This season’s finish was 8th. Yes, there are numerous teams that would switch places with LFC in a heartbeat in relishing what we’ve accomplished. There are even more that would relish the resources and opportunities that were afforded to LFC though.

            I’ve no doubt that Rodger’s will make better use of the resources that Dalglish had over the last 18 months. Whether or not that will result in trophies, or Champions League football, is something where we’ll just have to wait and see.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/David-Howard-Shaw/100003624505526 David Howard Shaw

            Sorry sir from 4th from the bottom to 8th in the EPL, two exceptional Cup runs (Carling Cup winners and FA Cup finalists) and Europa League football earned for 2012-2013 is moving forwards. And, there are 12 EPL teams and probably Everton who would switch places with LFC in a heart beat and gladly relish the trophy won and look forward to Europa League football next season. Not to mention the gate and concession revenues made in the domestic cup runs 2011-2012, and the anticipation of Europa League revenues in 2012-2013. Really! FSG’s expected standards (consistent top 4 EPL finishes and Champion’s League football alone as success) and within 1 season for Dalglish was made known after K D’s sacking. Hope Rodger’s meets yours and FSG standards. Can not wait Champion’s League football in 2013-2014 right? I would love thisbut will not hold my breath.

    • eskimo

      i don’t see one argument why you call Rodgers a mid-table manager, you just assume it’s true. i for one think he’s an exciting young manager and offcourse there’s the possibility that he’ll fail but if that happens i sincerely hope it’s not gonna be down to the fans. furthermore rafa was not appointed because FSG feared he wanted too much power wich is not a strange thought considering his earlier rows with the board

    • Catch-22

      How long did ‘The Waiter’ last at Inter Milan?

      • John Boy

        long enough to win 2 trophies.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/David-Howard-Shaw/100003624505526 David Howard Shaw

      L-Pudlain garauntees success forget the past and remember FSG looks at LFC history and sees “domestic Cup successs” and “Europa League type success” (UEFA Cup) as not good enough. Rafa was basically sacked by the shy=e owners for continually expressing the fact owners continually cut player resources investment. Dalglish for notbeing successful in his 16 months as manager.

  • redrog

    I struggle with the idea that we are not allowed to question the process for all of this.

    Let of make it clear right now that I would give a chance and support any manager that came in.

    Rodgers appears an exciting talented young manager and speaks very eloquently, however the fact remains he is very very inexperienced in top level management.

    As I’ve posted in many players we need some continuity and that brings the real question, not to Rodgers but to fsg themselves.

    I’m tired of hearing about these highly knowledgeable advisors, football is all about opinion and what’s to say these advisors have any more understanding of the club or the premier league than you or I who watch week in week out.

    Our club has been through the mill and for me fsg have still got much to prove.

    I will be willing to give Rodgers as much time as it takes, but in a modern game where laying foundations for the future and getting to two cup finals gets you the sack, my question is will fsg do the same.

    • Bill&Bob

      I agree with your sentiments redrog. I too will give my support to the new manager. It is testimony to the fans that some are still in mourning over KD’s departure such is their love of the man, me being one of them. Time is a healer they say. And it was hurtful to see some of the so called fans clamour for his sacking and the manner in which they hurt him, wounds like that take time too heal. The article was a good read and well composed. I dont see any misinterpretation over Ian Ayres comments though, they were clear and reflected the top tables views. If a Carling cup win and an FA cup win cannot save the manager then only a top 4 place will. So that message goes straight to the next manager. Unless Ian Ayre wants to rephrase his comments. This is an FSG call now lets see if those knowledgable advisors really do know more than the fans. Brendan has got to reach places he has never even been to before as a player or a manager so its more than a big ask for his first season. I wish him good luck.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/David-Howard-Shaw/100003624505526 David Howard Shaw

      So when did FSG change its definition of what success is and the time allowed to attain it? Support for the manager of course, but when did FSG modify or change it success definition?

  • Gano1

    There is something very different about BR, he really believe’s in himself and his family are all Liverpool fans too!!!

    • Jay Wright

      Self belief is so important at the top – I’m just glad that Rodgers recognises that the challenge is to make Liverpool the top team in the land, and not just top 4 again (as contrasted by the attitude at Tottenham for example, who refused to accept a challenge to actually win things, even with one of the best squads in the league last year!)

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/David-Howard-Shaw/100003624505526 David Howard Shaw

        Tottenham as with Liverpool fell short in attaining a top 4 EPl finish as like Liverpool they were lacking in player resources investment. LFC were 42 million behind Man C, 28 million behind Man U, 30 million behind Chelsea, and 25 million behind Arseanl. Making Tottenham whose player resources investment is estimated at 100 million 72 million behind Man C, 58 million behind Man U, 60 milion behind Chelsea, and 55 million behind Arsenal. Tottenham like LFC suffered because of this last season. To consistently challenge for a top 4 EPl position and Champion’s League football you need to address your player resources investment.

        • Jay Wright

          So by your logic, if Liverpool spend £200m on Jack Rodwell, Carlton Cole and Aiden McGeady this summer, then we can expect to challenge??
          And how were Newcastle and Everton able to finish above Liverpool, with their lower spends??

          Liverpool fell short because we invested in the wrong players. Tottenham fell short because they have no bollocks and dared not aim for real success.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/David-Howard-Shaw/100003624505526 David Howard Shaw

            As Man C Man U Arsenal Chelsea invested more this past season in player resources than LFC, and continue to do so, LFC had better redress the avg 34.7 million we are behind these clubs if we seek to knock them off their top 5 perch’s. This is the way modern football works today as evident in the top Spanish, French, Portugese, German, Italian, and UK teams. I did not say I like this footballing reality, however, its the way it is if you want meet FSG’s success criteria (consistent top 4 EPL finishes and Champion’s League football).
            You again introduce a ridiculous element into the debate “Liverpool spending 200 million” and name players I did not mention. First, Liverpool are 34.7 million on avg in player resources investment behind our direct competition for the top 4 EPL places and this has to be addressed if we are to have even a chance at top 6 let alone top 4. IMHO FSG can set any standard of success they want, yet without player investment that enables the resources necessary to meet this standard, its unattainable.
            In regards to Tottenham any club can have an exceptional season and finish top 4 or top 6 in the EPL. However, to finish consistently top 4 it takes player resources investment and lots of it. Even should Everton finish high again their player roster by virtue of their achievements will demand more in salaries, and there goes your modest player costs. If Redsnap and Moyessey consistently finish high with very limited budgets then all hail the new football gurus. Yet in the modern game those with the Man U, Real Madrid, Barcelona, Inter Milan type player resources investment budgets consistently achieve.
            The Manc’s do not out spend LFC collectively by 70 million for nothing, both teams wanted the Premier Championship. Man U’s player resources investment has paid dividends for them, and LFC’s in 2011-2012 enabled 8th place, 2 exceptional domestic cup runs where LFC won 1 Cup and were beaten finalists in the other earning Europa League football for 2012-2013 after being 4th from the bottom when KD took over. Many in football see this as some achievement.

            You advocate Carlton, Cole, McGeady, fair dues and your opinion. Strengthening or weakening the first team and the bench is necessary the players chosen will be the sole propriety of FSG. IMHO LFC despite a terrible rub of the green were never going to finish top 4 as we lacked in player resourcess investment. Caroll, Suarez, and others with time may prove to be good investments. But FSG can sell the lot and get you new replacements they think will produce a top 4 EPl finish in 2012-2013, and future consistent top 4 finishes and Champion’s League football. However, as long as our chief competitors for these top 4 positions consistently out-invest us in player resources 8th place may become familiar territory.

          • Jay Wright

            The point is that the money spent on players doesn’t guarantee anything – just because one squad is more expensive than another, that doesn’t mean that that squad will be better than the other (otherwise there is no excuse for Dalglish’s Liverpool falling behind Newcastle and Everton right?). The names of the players I mentioned was irrelevant – you said that we are however much £££ money per player behind the top teams, so by that logic all we have to do is close the gap financially, irrespective of the players bought. When that clearly is not the case.

            Obviously the club with more resources has greater margin for error, and doesn’t need to take as many risks in the transfer market, but there IS value to be found out there if top clubs are willing to look for it, and I don’t think that we need to outspend Chelsea in order to challenge for the title. Just as Tottenham didn’t need to outspend everybody, but DID have the second best squad in the league last year, yet still refused to accept the challenge to be legit contenders. And if they couldn’t challenge last year, I can’t see how they ever will.
            You can give up and accept that we are a top 8 club. I choose to remain optimistic that things will be turned around very soon

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/David-Howard-Shaw/100003624505526 David Howard Shaw

            Jay you consistently introduce ridiculous statements into the discussion which I never made to bolster your position. For example “you said that we are however much money per player behind the top teams.” I stated several times LFC is on average 34.7 millions behind Man C Man U Arsenal and Chelsea in player resources investment. And, then you introduce “so by that logic all we have to do is close the gap financially irrespective of the players bought.” I said no such thing, yet you inject this ridiculous statement to knock it down bolstering your position. Look my statements in regards to player resources investment are very clear, and I will reiterrate this again: investment in the best good quality players available. This is why LFC’s continual deficit visave our chief competitors is so worrying. And as previously stated Everton and Newcastle did do wonderfully this season on modest budgets. Recent EPL history shows for consistent top 4 challenge and C L football they will need to invest much much more in player resources. Your opinion is we do not need to outspend Chelsea to win the title. Fair dues, I advocate at least matching the 34,7 million we are behind Man U Man C Arsenal and Chelsea in player resources investment to have a chance of competing with them for the top 4 places. Man U had the second best squad, and Arsenal the third best. No LFC supporter wants the club to be perrenial 8th finishers, and in regards to this happening it depends on FSG as either they provide the player resources investment to compete for higher positions or they do not. Remember there is a reason Real Madrid, Barcelona, Intermilan, Man C, Man U, Chelsea etc invest so much in player resources. Why? because it works.

          • Jay Wright

            @David Howard Shaw: you continually say that I am making ridiculous statements when I merely following your statements to a logical conclusion. If Liverpool are just £34.7m behind Man U, Man C, Arsenal and Chelsea, then the way to close that gap is to spend as quickly as possible right? That can be done most quickly by continuing to pay over-inflated prices for players right?

            I was the one that brought up the quality of the players invested in, not you – all that you continually brought up was the financial factor. And the two aren’t necessarily intertwined, as we’ve seen exemplified numerous times throughout footballs history.

            In regards to the qualities of squads, I agree that Man City were well ahead of everybody else, but for me, Tottenham were at least on a par with those at Man U and Arsenal. Their manager refused to actually make use his depth or accept the challenge, but the quality and depth was there nevertheless. While Man U refused to accept the deficiencies in their own squad meant that they couldn’t challenge.

            Overall, teams spend big on transfers because it is the easiest way to build a team – buying proven quality, rather than digging deep for players that haven’t proven themselves at the top level. Spending at Man City/Chelsea levels isn’t the only way to create a quality team though.

            (btw, spending £34,7m wouldn’t close the gap, seeing as those clubs ahead of us are going to continue to spend anyway)

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/David-Howard-Shaw/100003624505526 David Howard Shaw

            You are consistent if anything sir. My statements redressing the player resources investment with our chief competition for the top 4 league positions, This means acquiring the best quality players available to us. You introduce “quickley by continuing to pay over inflated prices.” I never advocated paying inflated prices as quality is a strong component I advocate in player resources management. The time table to do this in regards to attaining FSG’s standard of success criteria is the sole propriety of FSG. Certianly in the modern era of football (Premier League inception on) the teams who invest in the best quality player resources enjoy the most success. And, yes there are occaisions when a club gets it wrong, however, they re-acess and re-invest (transfer out players and bring in others). We disagree on Tottenham so be it. Man U vs Man C is evidence of investment cost to win the Premiership. And, Man U as much as I dislike them are the clearest example of the player resources necessary to consistently challenge for the Premiership. And thats where FSG demands LFC be and soon. Quality teams can be created over a realistic time frame if the owners allow it. However, FSG as evidenced in their definition of success, and their time frame for this success to be achieved LFC and Rodgers do not have the years necessary to build this modest budget team. And, yes in addressing LFC’s player resources investment defecit we are talking consistently I never advocated doing this for only one season as it needs to be an ongoing investment that pays 15-20 mill in the Champions League revenues FSG wants. Good business sense IMHO as it works wonders for the top Euro teams I have already mentioned. Certainly FSG could drop the success definition, admit LFC investment will be curtailed to a moderate budget, and we all can set our sights on winning the occaisional domestic trophy earning Europa League football, which actually was not so bad after all.

          • redatheart

            So what’s your solution Mr Genius? FSG, as you probably already know, don’t have any oil wells in the Middle East or Russia, and hence, they lack the unfettered spending power of Abramovich or the Arab owners of Man City. Unless you have a few billion quid that you want to invest in our club you just mischief making again and taking cheap shots at the owners for the sake of it? That seems to be your speciality!

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/David-Howard-Shaw/100003624505526 David Howard Shaw

            Redat You know personally how much FSG have determined they are going to be putting into the club then. Thats great tell us how much and then we will know. The discussion has been about what is or is not necessary for a consistent top 4 EPL challenge and Champion’s League football. Your opinion is your owner needs to be an oil well owner, or a person with the money of Abramovich, or being a rich Arab. OK fair dues Redat find us that owner. I am not advocating any such thing sir. L-Pudlian clearly states FSG “has 1.6 to 1.9 billion they are not afraid to invest in their ventures.” In this light IMHO FSG could invest the 34.7 million on average we are behind our chief competitors for the top 4 spots and Champion’s League football. My position and argument are feasible and according to Man U Man C Intermilan Barcelona and Real Madrid this type of investment pays off. Your introduction of oil wells, Abramovitch and Arabs show you to be the mischief maker and insulting, as well as a cheap shot artist. That seems to be your speciality clever cloggs.

          • redatheart

            I’ve no idea how much they intend to spend but what I do know is that £1.6 – 1.9 billion is a long way short of the kind of spending power that is at the disposal of a Man City or a Chelsea and that is why FSG’s strategy is a long term one – one that is aimed at operating within the constraints of ‘financial fairplay’ and reliant upon a bigger stadium (be it an expanded Anfield or Stanley Park) to increase our financial clout. That’s the reality for us because twice in our recent history we have been up for sale, and twice we have failed to attract the oil-rich type of multi-billionaire that has been throwing their unlimited cash at the 2 clubs I referred to. Although FSG definitely aren’t in that league, they have still put their money where their mouths are – clearing our debts and funding a big spending spree last season. Sadly, that isn’t enough for everyone. At a time when there is a new positive vibe around the place, with the new manager and the new direction we are hopefully moving in, people like you keep having unhelpful and unnecessary digs at them when we should be getting behind them or at least giving them the benefit of the doubt.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/David-Howard-Shaw/100003624505526 David Howard Shaw

            Redat Anyone who you disagree with or whoes opinion is not yours you label “unhelpful” “throwing unnecessary digs” and not getting behind the owners. The forums are here for LFC dialog and not a dictatorship. FSG actually put in approx 35 mill of their own money last season as owners. We are on average 34.7 million behind our chief rivals for a top 4 EPL position. FSG has deemed this the only acceptable standard for success. The discussion on this thread has been how can LFC attain this? I hope your vibe whatever this is comes true for LFC. However, your new direction is under the new regime to consistently gain top 4 in the league and Champion’s League football. I advocate the owners address LFC’s deficit in player resources investment as a means to that end, and good football policy according to the teams that regularily inhabit Champion’s League. FSG have bought the club and own it, the stadium, concessions revenue, marketing revenue, and US television licencing. They have determined what success at LFC is and the time frame to get there, However, a large portion of their revenues come from the supporters who will fill the stands, buy the concessions, and memorabelia. My money and yours and as that is so I, you, your dad, my uncle and my brother who go and pay their way all have a say, Ideas, questions, opinions, and debate are our right as supporters. So stop characterizing opposing opinions negatively, and give contra opinions and ideas. Or petition the site admin to make a new rule that no one can post unless you deem it ok, otherwise we will agree to disagree,

        • wabefirst

          I agree to a point but the above mentioned clubs have all paid these players great deals of money and this is with champions league football to offer also. For LFC to attract the same level of player with no champions leagues football they would need to pay these greedy c**nts even more money than these supper rich clubs do, and that just ain’t going to happen. I do believe that if we do get in the top 4 then FSG will spent big and would get far better value for money. I also think the appointment of BR was a master class move. This being because the kind of “keep possession total football” is the perfect way of playing to cancel out all these classy individual players that are packed in the likes of MC,MU,CF.
          FSG have always stated that they are in the game of calculated risks…ie BR. If this works and if LFC can at some point get the correct players to play the BR way…then we will be unstoppable!!.

  • Josek

    Well said Liverpudlian, best article I’ve seen on here. If Brendan is smart he will copy Benitez & get cosy with “certain elements” of the fanbase, give them little snippets, contribute to causes etc etc.

    • Bill&Bob

      I have to say that comment is incredibly cynical. I assume you are referring to the Hillsborough support group because if you are there is no “cosy up” there mate. Any relationship with such “elements” as you say, is a duty and honour that every liverpool manager will perform as part of his job. Benitez loves the fans and they love him, he was driven to tears at the last memorial service, thats not cosy up thats true love. Why did you say this? Do you not realise the meaning of your words?

  • Jay Wright

    It is not unrealistic to think that Rodgers is capable of delivering a title challenge at Liverpool, with his brand of football – which most notably (and oft forgotten) includes the aggressive defending that was never displayed under Hodgson or Dalglish – and actual ambition to see his team win the title (as contrasted by the attitude at Spurs for example, who had one of the best squads in the league but still refused to target anything other than top 4 – and ironically ended up with nothing in return for achieving that aim).
    Even thinking conservatively, it would be reasonable to expect the team to turn just 4 of last seasons defeats into victories, adding 12 points to the points total and putting us on the verge of the top 4 teams, while Rodgers introduces his new methods. Another season on, with more of his players brought in, plus the development of some of the existing squad and greater understanding of his methods being embedded throughout the squad, it wouldn’t be unreasonable to expect another 12 point turnaround, which would be expected to put us on the coattails of the contenders.
    The most difficult part would be completing the transition in the third year, where the squad would be completely “his”, and the final step towards being legitimate contenders would be expected. I am optimistic that such targets could, and will, be achieved. If not, at least the football on display shall be a lot more enjoyable to watch.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/David-Howard-Shaw/100003624505526 David Howard Shaw

      Your opinion is Rodgers has 2 plus seasons to achieve EPL top 4 and Champions League football. Has FSG changed their definition of what success is and what it was not success?, as evidenced in FSG’s determination that LFC going from 5th from the bottom to 8th winning the Carling Cup, beaten finalists in the FA Cup, Europa League football in 2012-2013 in 16 months as the worst season in LFC history. Of course FSG as owners and who act unilaterally with their sports franchises and change anything they want that suits them. This however would be disenngenuous, Dalglish one standard and someone else another. Oh well the L-Pudlian garauntees future success who cares about the other things.

      • Jay Wright

        Dalglish didn’t have a single season at Liverpool. He was in charge for a season and a half, plus had a couple of years in the background to familiarise himself with all that was going on at the club, and led the club from Hodgson’s reign to 6th, then had a target of moving the club forwards again and instead delivered the worst league campaign of a generation. Not to mention the mess that was made of things simultaneously damaging the image of the club off of the pitch also.

        Btw, Souness, another legend, won the FA Cup during his short time in charge at Liverpool, as well as bringing through some of our best young talent in the last 20 years. These factors still don’t stop his reign being the most disastrous period of Liverpool’s recent history though. Unfortunately, Dalglish appeared to be headed the same way.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/David-Howard-Shaw/100003624505526 David Howard Shaw

          Of course Galglish had 16 – 18 months in charge at LFC no one disputes this. And why some myself included say under KD LFC went from 4 from the bottom of the EPL with horrible performances in domestic cup competitions and a fear of possible relegation to 8th in the league and two exceptional domestic cup runs (won 1 and beaten finalists in the other) and securing Europa League football for 2012-2013 when KD was sacked. Dalglish did not damage the club off or on the pitch. Any comparisons of past seasons with you are impossible as you like FSG deem domestic cup success and Europa League football as failure with only top 4 finishes and Champion’s League football worthy of being attributed as success. Many of the LFC faithful want our club to win the league and compete in Champion’s League, but also see winning domestic trophies and Europa League football as success. The question is can BR match FSG’s success standards in 16-18 months time given Dalglish?

          • Jay Wright

            I reminded the fact that Dalglish was in charge for a season and half (plus in the background for a couple of years) as in reality the club finished 6th last season before the target of achieving 4th was set, rather than finishing 5th from bottom and then seeing an 8th placed finish as unacceptable.

            Champions League football is merely a means to an end. If we were going to be like Tottenham and just want to get in so that we can face a few big clubs and get to the quarter finals, then ok, it is not a measure of success at all. As far as I can see though, Rodgers and the owners see it as it is supposed to; a financial stepping towards future title challenges.

            IRT whether Dalglish’s actions were damaging the image of LFC, I guess we’ll just have to agree to differ…

          • Bill&Bob

            Are you serious Dalglish damaging the image of LFC, UNFKNBELIEVABLE !!

  • John Boy

    Words are all and good but what counts is the action on the pitch. I’m not swayed by anything anyone says anymore lest of all the owners. Not blaming FSG but the last bunch of Americans left a very poor taste in my mouth.

    I want to see how he sets the team out and how the players respond. Last season i saw a lot of attacking football but very few goals. I don’t care what he did at Swansea but i do care about what he’s gonna do here.

    Time will tell if all the words spoken today will be put into action tomorrow… And on that he will be judged…. As lads from Liverpool once sang “Tomorrow never knows”. So come on and lets have a season to remember!

  • scfc

    I can recall watching Liverpool on the telly many years ago winning their second European Cup at Wembley and KD’s sublime goal. From that moment on I was hooked and Liverpool were my team.
    I am not from Liverpool as I have lived my whole life in the Swansea area and naturally am a supporter of my local team. When Brendan said he was leaving I was devastated. To all the doubters………doubt not! Brendan is the real deal and understands TEAM. Together Everyone Achieves More. I am just starting to come to terms with his leaving and wish him every success and completely understand why he took the job.
    I think the club thought they could fix themselves and FSG were just a wallet to be dipped into and nothing else. Now that LFC has shown it can’t repair itself FSG have stepped in and are going to do it their way. Should be interesting.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/David-Howard-Shaw/100003624505526 David Howard Shaw

      By the “club” who you mean? Who are these people at LFC who think “it could repair itself”? You say you are from Swansea, surely if you had been 5th from the bottom and pitiful in domestic cup competitions, and under a new manager within 16 months finish 8th, win the Carling Cup and are beaten finalists in the FA Cup, earn a Europa League place you would not think such a repair (achievement) such as this happened by it self would you? To attain what FSG deems as success Rodgers, LFC and Swansea FC, Man U, Man C, etc etc needs player resources investment to consistently vie for a top 4 EPL and Champions League football and together achieve more?

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/David-Howard-Shaw/100003624505526 David Howard Shaw

    This article by L-pudlian expresses his desire that FSG equals “future success garaunteed” and that a reporter’s (un-named) opinion is FSG will invest a part of their available cash (1 to 1.9 billion) into LFC. First to the footballing gods and to Shankly, Paisily, and all past LFC greats playing in that eternal League on high pleeease let everything L-pudlian say come true. That this article is one long assumption that we all hope comes true. What is missing from every article since the start of the search for a new manager is the player resources investment component of LFC’s current situation. Success for FSG remains unchanged with no modifications announced by FSG or their spokes persons. Meaning “a top 4 EPL finish” and “Champions League football” consistently. All the rest “domestic trophies and success” and “Europa League” are not good enough and according to certain posters “mickey mouse.” To come anywhere close to this goal LFC must have the player resources investment on par with Man C, Man U, Arsenal, and Chelsea for a consistent chance at finishing top 4 and CL football. For Rodgers to have a ghost of a chance he will need this player investment, and as he will only have a say in the team under the say of the real authority (the FSG tripartite) his hands will be tied. I hope the Reds to wonderfully and Rodgers has and meets FSG success requirements. However, IMHO FSG = “future success gamble.”

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/David-Howard-Shaw/100003624505526 David Howard Shaw

    L-Pudlian your characterization of the 2011-2012 season as “a disaster” of course is your opinion. I wholeheartedly disagree with your opinion. That said LP, in your judging of future LFC seasons any LFC performance that falls below 2 exceptional Domestic Cup runs with 1 win and beaten finalist, and Europa League football secured, and finishing 8th you must concede as disasters. And Should there be no domestic success, or Europa League position earned, and LFC finish below 8th you will need to judge as “a unmittigated disaster.” Fair do’s and good luck with that as you have just set a standard Mr. Rodgers will fins hard to meet.

    • waly ahmadi

      You still don’t get it. Kenny ( I love the guy. A lot of respect for him. He is my idol ) spent 100 ml pound plus and what did we get.

      When you spend 100 ml pound plus, you do expect the players that were signed to perform. All of his signings were flops except for Bellamy and Suarez and to some extent Jose Enrique.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/David-Howard-Shaw/100003624505526 David Howard Shaw

        Waly A in modern football the money spent on transfers by any football team is derived from a formula whereby the monies gained from players sold in a season are deducted from the monies invested in player resources. This makes sense as the football team buys players from a expense budget in a particulair season, and gains income selling players in another season. In 2011 LFC sold 8 players and recieved 85,600,000.00, and brought in 9 players for an outlay of 80,000,000.00. Actual new transfer investment being nothing. In 2012 LFC sold 7 players and recieved 21,000,000.00, and brought in 8 players for an outlay of 56,400,000.00. Actual transfer investment being 35,350,000.00. With the player resources investment LFC got 2 excellent domestic cup runs (winning one and finalists in the other), a Europa League place, and an 8th place finish. For many of the LFC faithful in light of the actual investment by FSG (their own money) LFC were successful. KD and Comorolli actually spent 34,200,000.00 during his 16 months at LFC.

        • waly ahmadi

          I know the reply is late but whatever

          It doesn’t matter what went out and what came in. We should have signed better players. Look at Newcastle, According to your theory they shouldn’t be able to perform like they have done.

          They just made sound and good investment. They didn’t sign all the british talent, but went to the foreign leagues. I have nothing against the british players, but currently they are just not good enough. The players with best prospects are coming from Spain, France and Germany.

          So I am asking if we had to spend such money why did we spent it at home. And did it work, It definitely didn’t.

          Although I do think Andy Carrol will come good. But for downing and the others, I don’t have any hope

  • gfunk

    FSG are proving themselves to be more than capable owners. The disquiet coming from fans about their tenure smacks of over-inflated valuation of where we are as a team, a la Newcastle. They are putting the foundations in place for (fingers crossed) long term success. It’s time to stop looking backwards and realise that past success counts for nothing if you can’t recreate it in the modern game. FSG are modern owners and BR is a modern manager, intelligent and articulate, not a sentimental figure-head. There should be genuine optimism (and support) for our club going into next season.

    • Intelligent always

      If they were more than capable then where is the new stadium the club craves so much please?

    • Intelligent always

      If they were more than capable then where is the new stadium the club craves so much please?

    • Intelligent always

      If they were more than capable then where is the new stadium the club craves so much please?

  • 9ja Scouse

    Football fans are often emotional, fickle, passionate and very demanding. This is not necessarily bad.

    The fear or anticipation of fan sentiment must drive or at least emphasize to owners the importance of getting it right.

    FSG has been here before. They can handle it. They understand that they are getting feedback and will act wisely and boldly.

    YNWA

  • Adam

    It appears David Howard Shaw is the brains of the operation regarding this thread. Good points made without resorting to plucking speculative statements out of the air.

    • Gerard

      Get rid now of Brendan Rodgers!

      He cannot manager his way out of a paper bag and hire somebody good.

      Andrea Stramaccioni is best young manager out there with a great potential and drive.
      He will be the next great football manger.

      This is what Liverpool needs NOW!!!